WEBVTT - Jen Celotta - Pt. 1 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:14.320 I'm Jen Salada and I was a writer on the Office. 0:00:15.320 --> 0:00:20.480 Hello everyone, Welcome, one and all to the latest and 0:00:21.000 --> 0:00:25.960 for this week greatest installment of the Office Deep Dive. 0:00:26.320 --> 0:00:30.760 I am your host Brian Baumgartner. Today you will be 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:39.520 experiencing my conversation with Jen Salada. Now. Jen joined our 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:43.239 show as a writer in season two. And if you 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:46.479 listen to my conversation with Mike, sure you know that 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:51.000 Mike describes Jen as the beating heart of the show. 0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:54.800 I had never thought of it that way, but I 0:00:54.880 --> 0:00:59.240 realized after he said it that that is so true 0:00:59.760 --> 0:01:03.120 and and you can totally see Jen's influence on the show. 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:07.959 Starting in that second season, Jen wrote some of the 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:17.360 most complex, subtle psychological storylines that we ever had, and 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:20.320 it was so fun for me to talk about that 0:01:20.400 --> 0:01:27.600 with her. Um. Jen is also crazy smart and absolutely hilarious, 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:32.040 and she has the most infectious laugh, which you will 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:38.240 hear lots of momentarily. Um. But most importantly, she was 0:01:38.319 --> 0:01:43.119 the only guest who brought me cookies when she came 0:01:43.120 --> 0:01:46.080 in to talk. That's right, she she brought me cookies. 0:01:46.319 --> 0:01:50.320 So that officially makes Jen my favorite guest of all time. 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:54.880 So ladies and gentlemen, please welcome my friend and soon 0:01:54.920 --> 0:02:05.360 to be yours, Jen Salata, Bubble and squeak I love it, 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:12.000 Bubble and squeak on Bubble and squeaker Cookie every mon 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:33.600 lift over from the naty. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, good 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:39.400 to see you look the same. I saw you look awesome. 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:41.680 The thing with dudes is they get you get to 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:45.520 look better when you get older girls. True, yeah, yeah, 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:51.239 it's a problem. It's like some distinguished silver fox gray 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:54.840 that happens like girls. Don't you know? Why? Why can't 0:02:55.400 --> 0:02:57.840 Why can't girls have that? I don't know. I'll try 0:02:57.840 --> 0:03:02.800 it out. It's just a little just a little side gray. 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:09.560 Look you look, God, you do truth speak truth God. 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:14.360 Why don't we hang home before? And I think it 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:18.400 every time we hang out? That should be microphones, We shouldn't. 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:22.000 We should always accord everything and no laws, just big 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:28.440 just big Mike's Um. I just spent some time with 0:03:28.600 --> 0:03:33.320 Ed Helms, so cool. Yeah, ran out of here to 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:37.480 make sure he didn't see you. Seriously, what is all about? 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:39.839 You know what's amazing? I was going to maybe tell 0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:42.000 a sort of embarrassing story that doesn't make him look bad, 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:45.080 that makes me totally embarrass about it. I never told 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:50.560 on anything. Okay, go, it's totally embarrassing though you're ready, Yes, Okay, 0:03:50.600 --> 0:03:52.200 this is embarrassing. Why am I starting with this? But 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:55.640 you just mentioned his name is so funny. So um, 0:03:55.760 --> 0:03:58.080 I can't remember what season this was, but you'll know 0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:01.320 from what I'm talking about. Uh. I had an idea 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:04.640 where Ed was going to sing take a chance on me, 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:09.200 and um, I remember I told Greg that idea and 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:11.280 he's like, go down and tell Ed, you know, talk 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:13.200 to him about it, you know, about the song because 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:17.000 he'll be singing it soon. And I just remember, like, 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:19.200 being a fan of Eds from The Daily Show, it 0:04:19.279 --> 0:04:24.560 was an attractive, interesting, cool dorky, you know, banjo playing dude. 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:27.240 So like there was a part of me that was like, oh, 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:29.440 this is a cool dude. And I guess I got 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:32.720 a little kind of nervous about you know, like I 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:34.440 don't know, it's just a tiny bit nervous roun him 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:36.160 at first, you know, professional, but just like a little 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:38.680 bit nervous. So I go over and I knock on 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:40.320 his trailer door because I have to ask him, you know, 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:41.960 do you know this song? And let's talk about this 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:43.960 song or whatever. I'm assuming he knows that he knows music. 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:47.360 He's Mr Music right knock on his door. He's like, hey, Jen. 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:49.440 I was like, Hi, So I had this idea for 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:51.960 an episode coming up soon, probably next week. I don't 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:55.400 remember this, remembering exactly what, and and I said, it's 0:04:55.600 --> 0:04:58.159 take a chance on me. And I said, you know 0:04:58.240 --> 0:04:59.960 that song? He's like what. I was like, you know 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:04.160 that song? He did not know the song. So I 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:08.360 had to sing, take a chance on me, do it. 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:14.559 I'm the parking lot of the office, and I can't sing. Also, 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:16.919 I can't sing, and I'm singing to a singer. Anyway, 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:19.800 he was lovely. It was all fine, but it was 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:23.080 one of the dorky moments of my life. That's so funny. 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:24.960 I never told him that because it was just awkward, 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:26.720 because I wouldn't want to be like, I'm nervous around you. 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:29.160 But now I'll tell the world. There it is. I 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:32.520 will make sure he hears that story. Um, all right, 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:36.119 So you so pre you You came to the office 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:38.360 in season two, which basically was when Lee and Gen 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:43.560 joined too. You were the new kids. How was that, 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:46.680 by the way, coming into that room? It was it 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:48.760 was great. It was intimidating. I had been on a 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:51.880 bunch of other writing staffs I've been writing for a while, 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:54.720 but this I was a huge fan of the show. 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:56.599 I was a huge fan of The British Office, and 0:05:56.640 --> 0:05:59.039 then I was on Malcolm the Middle and watching The 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:01.640 American Office, and I'd watched The Office when it aired. 0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:03.479 In the next morning, all I talked about at work 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:08.320 was The Office. It was delightful for the well I 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:12.040 was trying to write Malcolm um and uh. So I 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:16.800 was just very intimidated at first, but excited. I felt 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:18.599 like there were a lot of shows that I worked 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:20.760 on that um, there were a few shows that were 0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:23.039 my sensibility. I got to work on Andy Richter Controls 0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:26.360 the Universe, and got to work on some other, you know, interesting, 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:28.680 cool shows. But this show was the first show where 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:31.720 I was like, oh God, like the humor and the 0:06:31.800 --> 0:06:36.120 heart everything about it I just felt like so connected 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:41.240 to and also just kind of dryer, subtle humor, dry humor, 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:43.680 subtle humor. There were so many things that were appealing 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:46.600 to me about it. So I both was incredibly excited 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:53.000 and also like, don't funk this up. Um, so let 0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:55.400 me rewind a little bit. So you you're on Malcolm 0:06:55.400 --> 0:06:58.800 in the Middle, and then what happens you You get 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:01.039 a meeting with get a meeting with Greg. I was 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:05.320 on a development deal actually also with NBC. So I 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:08.560 left Malcolm in the Middle. Um, full disclosure. Did not 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:10.280 get asked back to Malcolm Middle that will come back. 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:12.080 Maybe because I just talked about the office all the time. 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:16.120 They were like what the hell? But um, yeah, so 0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:17.840 I left. I had a meeting with Greg. I met 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:21.200 him at a coffee bean somewhere, just desperately wanted to 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:24.800 be on the show. Had a fantastic meeting, loved him instantly. 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:28.040 Had There was a very pregnant pause in my interview 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:30.000 with him of just it felt like it was like 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:32.200 five minutes long, but I'm not quite sure. It was 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:35.080 just him sort of kind of putting his hand on 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:37.400 his forehead and looking down and I'm like, I don't 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:39.440 know if this is I have no idea which way 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:41.480 this is going, because like I think it was going well, 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:43.920 but I don't really know. And there's a long pause, 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:45.400 and then he was like, hey, do you want to 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:52.440 you want to join the staff. I think a lot 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:55.280 of it probably to Gregg's later Dismay is that when 0:07:55.280 --> 0:07:57.080 he was silent for a little while, just trying to 0:07:57.120 --> 0:07:59.840 process or think about things or who knows what, I 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:04.720 didn't speak, then surprise, surprise, I wouldn't shut up once 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:07.800 you hired, right, And I can tell you a funny 0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:11.480 story about that as well. I yeah, no, So I 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:15.840 I felt so aligned with the office before, just even 0:08:15.880 --> 0:08:17.600 as a fan, and I noted we made some there 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:20.560 were some changes, and we did some tweaking the things 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:23.160 going into season two, which made it even more maybe 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:26.720 in my wheelhouse of kind of heart and you know, 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:29.840 rooting for Krall and kind of finding the underbelly of 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:33.160 his character and stuff like that. But season one, I 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:38.240 was just a huge fan. So right, so waits well, 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:41.560 so many things. First of all, so what I've been 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:46.880 told was that Greg, in consultation with the network and 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:51.480 blah blah blah, he needed to soften Steve first season two, 0:08:51.559 --> 0:08:54.680 that Kevin Riley was very happy with what had happened, 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:57.840 but that people watching it was actually something that you 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:03.599 want in television, and so he Greg came in. It 0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:05.760 will be interesting to hear your perspective on this, because 0:09:05.800 --> 0:09:08.680 you weren't a writer before, but that Greg was the 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:12.319 one who pushed for Steve being softened, and that there 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:14.840 was everyone else who was in the room, and a 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:17.079 writer at the time felt like, no, you're going to 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:20.040 kill the show. Oh that's fascinating. I could. I do 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:22.880 have thoughts on it, even though I wasn't there, um, 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:28.400 because I think that depending on how you interpret soften, 0:09:28.960 --> 0:09:31.280 it could sound like something that could be very threatening 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:34.120 to the show. And it could for me because I 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:36.520 know what it ended up being. I'll explain why. I 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:39.679 think it was a great decision. But I remember we 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:42.120 were early on in season two talking about how do 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:45.920 we do this, and a lot of people had great ideas. 0:09:45.920 --> 0:09:49.760 I just remember specifically, Um, I had talked to my dad, 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:51.720 who's a physicist. To come from a very kind of 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:55.640 nerdy door them family a physicist and the psychologist and 0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:58.880 the mechanical engineers, my brother and my dad was in 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:01.679 UH had to high level position where he ended up 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:05.200 having to fire people. And I remember him telling me 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:08.640 about firing people from the point of view of a boss, 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:11.600 that it's like you always are thinking about the person 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:14.080 who gets fired, because that's the person you're sympathizing with. Right, 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:15.400 of course, you're going to tell a story you would 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:17.599 sympathize with the person who's being fired. I remember my 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:21.360 dad's saying, it's very kind of lonely, weird thing, you know, 0:10:21.440 --> 0:10:23.679 and you're having to make a decision that's affecting another 0:10:23.720 --> 0:10:27.000 person and it's really difficult. And sort of the extension 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:29.959 of that with having Michael Scott, who just like you, 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:32.400 guys are his family and if you have to get 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:35.160 rid of one of you, it's devastating. It was just 0:10:35.200 --> 0:10:40.199 sort of an interesting way to see things that affect him, 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:41.959 but to understand and feel for him, do you know 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:44.080 what I mean? I think I think it's the feeling 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:46.320 for him and seeing the underbelling and seeing the why 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:48.439 of what he's doing, as opposed to what I think 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:51.840 was a very common network note often which is makes 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:54.880 someone more likable. And I think that if you take 0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:57.760 that for what it sounds like, just make somebody more likable, 0:10:57.760 --> 0:10:59.720 it feels like you're taking all the character and everything 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:02.480 away and you're just softing them into this benign mush 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:05.760 of human which would like imagine Correll having to play 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:08.959 somebody just you know, that couldn't have any edges, that 0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:13.680 couldn't do outrageously ridiculously bad things. Right, well, and I 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:19.240 think we're What Greg ultimately said was that for the episode, 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:21.800 it would play the same way that he could still 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:24.680 do this behavior. He could still be an idiot, he 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:29.040 could still be insensitive, but then just find just a moment, 0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:32.600 tiny moment at the end that where you see this 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:35.880 other side of him and actually you talked about um 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:39.160 firing someone. And there's the Halloween episode and again that 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:41.920 last moment you just see him giving out the candy 0:11:41.960 --> 0:11:44.440 to the kids and just humanizes him in a way 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:47.440 where you understand like there's a kind of a man 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:49.800 who's alone and he's given out candy. He's got the 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:52.600 sweet part of him. Yeah, I agree, I can understand. 0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:56.120 We had more arguments in that room than almost any 0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:57.960 other room I've ever been in, and they were, like 0:11:58.000 --> 0:11:59.839 I always say, it was like a healthy marriage where 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:02.160 you're supposed to fight. They're supposed to be fighting. It's 0:12:02.200 --> 0:12:04.520 safe and we love each other, but we would fight. 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:07.000 And I just think it's because we all gave a ship. 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:09.240 It's like we really really cared. I've been in rooms 0:12:09.280 --> 0:12:12.480 where everybody just sits there and kind of you know, wait, 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:15.120 still time to go home more, And this was not 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:20.480 that everybody cared desperately about everything. Yeah, um, do you 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:25.520 think being a woman and only you and Mendy were 0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:30.240 women at the time, writers, do you feel like, well, 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:32.760 first of all, how was that for you? You know, 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:35.040 I always feel like in this I'm supposed to be 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:37.840 saying more than I do, or I'm reevaluating how I 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:40.240 felt all the time, But I didn't think about it 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:44.400 like I just I. I don't know. I'll talk with 0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:46.160 the office specifically in a second. But I've been so 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:50.560 incredibly fortunate in my career to work worth incredibly evolved men, 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:53.679 and I feel like, yes, I always wish there were 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:56.360 more women and more diversity in every staff always, that 0:12:56.480 --> 0:12:58.640 is always something that I wanted and wished for and 0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:02.720 asked for. But I did feel uncomfortable in any way. Um, 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:05.560 I just felt very blessed and lucky. Again, it's on me. 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:07.760 It's it's certainly in the later days to try to 0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:10.920 incorporate and bring in other people and make rooms more diverse. 0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:14.120 But um, I didn't have that feeling. And certainly when 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:15.720 I got there, Mindy was there, and so I felt 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:18.400 like and there were maybe I don't remember now, six 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:19.920 of us, seven of us, and you know, so there 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:21.560 were two women out of seven, and I knew she 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:24.079 was incredibly talented and just loved working with her. But 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:28.520 um no, I didn't. I had a didn't continue. I 0:13:28.559 --> 0:13:30.240 feel like it should have occurred to me more than 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:32.720 it did, and it didn't. So that's how I feel 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:35.800 a responsibility to other ladies, you know, to just sort 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:38.600 of go back and you know, think of things. So 0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:41.200 I certainly have had female friends that have had more, 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:44.240 you know, because I was the only woman on maybe 0:13:44.440 --> 0:13:49.040 three staffs that I've been on. And even in those situations, again, yes, 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:50.880 I would always like to have the more voices in 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:52.480 the room and the more diverse the voices are in 0:13:52.520 --> 0:13:54.120 the room. The beat of the show is just is 0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:56.000 so it always should be that way. But on the 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:58.400 shows when I was coming up there, guys that I 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:02.840 worked with were fantastic and I didn't I didn't feel uncomfortable. Yeah, 0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:07.679 so Greg has talked about or this quote was attributed 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:12.040 to him or something like it. Um, Mike sure said 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:15.720 that that Greg talked about wanting to create a writer's 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:19.600 room that was like the X Men, right, so that 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:25.280 not everybody had a special skill that was the same. So, Um, 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:28.320 what I have been told is and let's see if 0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:32.640 you agree with that. Lee and Jean Um were very 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:38.440 good at the cringe comedy, that Mike was more optimistic, 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:46.520 that Mendy was more absurdist, but also tied into um 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:50.920 some of the love stuff. Paul was very into Michael's 0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:58.760 worst instincts Um. And then you, I was told one 0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:04.440 you were very into Pam and sort of the beating 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:10.120 heart of the show. And then Greg wasn't sure about that. 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:15.680 He said, you were very interested in Michael's stories and 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:19.920 finding the complexity there. What's funny is that the episode 0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:24.080 that was reference for both of those two things from 0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:29.280 Mike sure and from Greg was the same episode where 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:35.440 the bird dies. Whereas Greg saw that as being about 0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:39.520 Michael and him having to find a way to deal 0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:44.240 with it, and Mike saw that as about Pam and 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:48.400 Pam making the decision to facilitate the funeral for Michael. 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:51.960 Oh my gosh. Interesting that they referenced the same episode 0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:54.920 but came up with two different responses. Do you feel like, 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:59.200 what was your superpower? What interested you? What's a mate 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:01.440 that is fast nating? And I can see how they 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:04.600 both could say that. What's interesting to me is that 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:10.240 for me, it's understanding the humanity of a person and 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:13.240 the levels of a person and the psychology of a person. 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:16.400 To me, it was very much Michael that you know, 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:20.240 it was not the Pam element um in that I 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:23.320 love Pam and Michael's connection. I love their relationship, But 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:27.080 for me, it was steering Michael through that sort of 0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:29.840 the stages of grief. I never got to write internal 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:33.040 stories where something kind of was happening to the insides 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:34.960 of a character. And I was like, this is a 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:38.400 story on a network television show that is an internal 0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:41.600 story where the character that it's happening to is not 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:44.920 even aware of it. Like I was, like, my brain 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:47.640 was exploding. So I kind of feel like they're both 0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:50.360 They're both right in a way where it's like but 0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:53.160 with that particular episode was Michael. I had this moment 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:56.000 with Steve when I was leaving the show and I 0:16:56.040 --> 0:16:58.720 told him, Um, it was very, very difficult decision. Was 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:00.560 the best job I ever had, by far, but I 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:02.040 was starting to feel like I wanted to write some 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:04.879 of my own stuff, and and I told Greg and 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:08.560 then I told Steve, and you know, I'm sad. I'm 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:10.920 really upset. I mean it was like the best opportunity 0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:12.760 of my life. And he said, I think this is 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:14.920 going to be difficult for you. I said, oh yeah, 0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:16.520 you know why I could tell something he was saying 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:18.120 something else, and he said, because I think you work 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:20.120 out a lot of your own stuff through my character. 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:30.360 Oh god, Michael Scott thinks I'm Michael Scott. I mean 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:32.680 he meant it. He didn't mean it as a bad thing, 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:35.119 but he just even just earnest and genuine in it. 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:37.120 And like I was like, why can't I be Pam? 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:39.439 Why can't I be Anu? Why can't it be Phyllis? 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:46.800 Why can't I'll no, But I mean I endure, I endore. 0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:49.679 Michael said, He's not wrong. There are moments in my life. 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:53.320 I'm very intrigued with his character. But there are also 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:55.560 moments in my life where I feel Michael Scotty and 0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:58.320 I think everyone does. But I thought that was unbelievable. 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:05.399 That is so amazing, and and there's a sweetness to it. 0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:07.080 Because I've told some people that and they're like, oh, 0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:09.600 but Michael, you love Michael, and you know he's he's 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:11.800 connected and he loves But like I immediately went to 0:18:11.960 --> 0:18:14.280 the most ridiculous signs of Michael, Like, there was a 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:17.440 moment after it where I thought of him, where I 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:19.760 was trying. I had to type up an email that 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:21.040 I was gonna have to send as soon as I 0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:23.080 got home. I was, oh, God, this is terrible to stay. 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:25.119 I was on side. I was at a stoplight and 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:28.480 I had my computer open, and I was like typing, 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:30.080 because if you have finished typing it the second I 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:32.560 got home, I was going to send it. And I 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:36.080 just imagined like a cop pulling me over with my laptop. 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:37.720 I mean, the drivers I'm driving and I've got my 0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:40.399 laptop open, and he's like, ma'am you know, and I'm like, 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:45.159 I'm not texting. I'm not texting, I'm emailing. There are 0:18:45.200 --> 0:18:48.400 definitely moments where I'm like, I think, maybe I am. 0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:55.320 But that's so amazing degree on a long journey there 0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:59.399 to that. But uh yeah. But I'm fascinated with what 0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:02.280 makes people tick and the layers underneath people. And I 0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:04.720 feel like writing for me is about connecting. I think 0:19:05.040 --> 0:19:07.920 there's so many things that people think are just themselves, 0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:09.679 and when you see it on screen, you feel like 0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:12.960 kind of comforted forgetting. Maybe that's just me as Michael 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:15.159 scotten me. You're just comforted that other people are like 0:19:15.200 --> 0:19:17.920 that too. So the stuff inside that you don't get 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:20.160 to see is what I like to try to bring 0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:22.480 out or show, even if they're not saying it's happening. 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:45.800 There's something that came up and talking with Greg that 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:49.800 I did not know. Um, it was very clear Greg 0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:53.399 wanted a collaboration, and he wanted the lines between the 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:56.480 writers and the actors to be blurred, and he wanted 0:19:56.520 --> 0:19:59.560 it to be much more collaborative. I was aware that 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:01.560 was happening, and I was aware that it felt very 0:20:01.600 --> 0:20:04.960 different than any other show. But I think for me 0:20:05.000 --> 0:20:08.760 it was always about really about the writers. That it 0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:13.440 was about the writers were acting, and the writers had 0:20:13.600 --> 0:20:18.600 sort of an unfettered access to set. Um. Greg told 0:20:18.680 --> 0:20:24.000 me that his idea was not that his idea was 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:26.600 to blur the lines between the writers and the actors 0:20:27.160 --> 0:20:30.800 because he felt that in this new genre the laughs 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:35.119 were about behavior, that there was there was something for 0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:39.000 him that he needed the actors, for the writers to 0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:43.800 see the actors because behavior was way more important in 0:20:43.880 --> 0:20:48.160 this kind of a show than in traditional That's fascinating. 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:51.240 I agree with that. I don't think I ever sort 0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:53.600 of felt it as that was what was happening, like 0:20:53.680 --> 0:20:57.280 kind of what you're saying. But I do think that 0:20:58.000 --> 0:21:00.919 anytime you try to part of me just thinks that 0:21:00.960 --> 0:21:03.399 blurring the lines just makes it a happier environment. Because 0:21:03.400 --> 0:21:05.240 it always felt like the writers were on the shows 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:06.880 I worked on, the writers were off, and then the 0:21:07.000 --> 0:21:09.240 actors were off, and there was absolutely no crossover, and 0:21:09.280 --> 0:21:11.080 you didn't feel like you were part of a family 0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:13.399 together with each other like they'll be. There are shows 0:21:13.400 --> 0:21:15.000 where I didn't even go down to the set. You know, 0:21:15.040 --> 0:21:17.360 you'd never saw the show. You know, you never saw 0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:20.840 the actors act, And I just think it's always better 0:21:20.920 --> 0:21:23.440 if you kind of mush the two together. I think 0:21:23.520 --> 0:21:29.359 that it's kind of starting to create a character and 0:21:29.400 --> 0:21:32.400 then working with the actor to see what they do 0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:35.600 with it and how they make it. There's that kind 0:21:35.600 --> 0:21:38.040 of thing I feel like, And then when you have 0:21:38.040 --> 0:21:40.520 a specific story about a specific character going down and 0:21:40.600 --> 0:21:42.639 kind of getting to know them enough so that you 0:21:42.680 --> 0:21:45.359 can infuse it so much with the goodness and the 0:21:45.600 --> 0:21:49.520 specificity of you guys is such a big thing. I 0:21:49.520 --> 0:21:52.600 guess I never really thought of it exactly that way 0:21:52.720 --> 0:21:56.480 what he's saying, but I I do think that if 0:21:56.520 --> 0:21:59.880 you think about this show being really needing to be real, 0:22:01.000 --> 0:22:03.960 imagining the worst case of what would have happened if 0:22:04.080 --> 0:22:06.439 if what Greg was saying wasn't true, is that writers 0:22:06.480 --> 0:22:08.919 would be in a room coming up with these weedy 0:22:09.000 --> 0:22:12.760 one liners that were not based at all in what 0:22:12.840 --> 0:22:16.240 a human being would do and the specific human being. 0:22:16.560 --> 0:22:19.000 So that if you go down and to the set 0:22:19.080 --> 0:22:21.600 down whatever we were a couple of minutes stories of 0:22:21.880 --> 0:22:25.720 like and then work with them and and more listen 0:22:25.800 --> 0:22:28.760 to them and see how they would get from point 0:22:28.760 --> 0:22:32.200 A to point B in a realistic way, it'll feel 0:22:32.920 --> 0:22:35.679 more real and more rich. Then if you're just like, 0:22:35.720 --> 0:22:37.439 ha ha, this is a funny joke, you're like the 0:22:37.480 --> 0:22:39.640 worst kind of writing where you're like, here's a funny joke, 0:22:39.680 --> 0:22:41.639 and we'll just give this joke to somebody, you know, 0:22:41.680 --> 0:22:48.680 without really taking into consideration, but packing live. Um, why 0:22:48.920 --> 0:22:53.800 was writing the character so real so important for me? 0:22:54.280 --> 0:22:58.640 Because it was a mockumentary. I've found that a lot 0:22:58.680 --> 0:23:01.520 of the a lot of discussions we'd have we're about 0:23:01.760 --> 0:23:05.720 comedy versus reality, So we had these discussions a lot. 0:23:06.359 --> 0:23:11.520 I think we had them even camera wise. Um, we 0:23:11.640 --> 0:23:13.800