WEBVTT - LISK (Long Island Serial Killer) Full Panel 2 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:12.480 When I was in high school, we were headed to 0:00:12.560 --> 0:00:17.280 the state championship in volleyball, and our coach had a 0:00:17.400 --> 0:00:20.680 great idea to have the football coach kind of come 0:00:20.720 --> 0:00:24.400 and pump us up. And he was a famous high 0:00:24.400 --> 0:00:28.080 school football coach, Graham Hickson Honey, and we were so 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:31.680 excited to hear from him. And I'll never forget he 0:00:31.720 --> 0:00:36.000 walks in, he looks at all of us, and he says, 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:42.599 y'all are not the Woodward Academy women's volleyball team. You 0:00:42.680 --> 0:00:47.040 are the Woodward Academy volleyball team. He said, you don't 0:00:47.080 --> 0:00:50.680 have last names on your jersey for a reason. We 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:55.840 are one team, Woodward Academy. And the football team and 0:00:55.880 --> 0:00:58.640 the swim team and the golf team. Everybody's behind you. 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:02.120 That is how I phil today about the people that 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:06.080 again have stopped everything going on in their world to 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:09.240 come meet with us to talk about the Long Island 0:01:09.280 --> 0:01:13.039 serial killer. And I appreciate every one of them. And 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:19.279 I'm gonna get right to Sergeant Joseph Jackaloney. He worked 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:23.880 cold cases with NYPD, He worked at the Homicide School. 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:28.080 He received the Medal of Valor. And when I tell y'all, 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:32.600 he wrote the book literally he wrote the book on 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:35.440 cold cases and then he followed up with the second 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:39.240 book on criminal investigation, so he has the cold case 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:44.399 handbook and the criminal investigation function. So, Sergeant, I'm going 0:01:44.440 --> 0:01:47.560 to go right to you, what do you think is 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:50.400 next for this investigation? The next steps? 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:52.720 I think we have to find out who our other 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:56.160 identified victims are, right, So we have Peaches and we 0:01:56.280 --> 0:02:00.680 have Asian male and along with Peaches is we know 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:03.800 as her daughter Jane baby Dough that they referred to 0:02:03.960 --> 0:02:07.200 or as And it's important that we identify these individuals 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:09.600 because if law enforcement wants to solve the case, you 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:11.360 have to start off with who your victim is, so 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:13.920 that you can go back and try to piece together 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:16.240 what was going on in that person's life, who they 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:18.800 were hanging out with, what they were doing, and of 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:22.360 course maybe somebody remembers something back then, because when you 0:02:22.400 --> 0:02:24.200 put a face to a name, then all of a sudden, 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:26.240 a lot of things come back to the surface. 0:02:26.800 --> 0:02:30.520 Do you see this task force being even larger than 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:31.520 we think that it is. 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:35.840 Yes, I think the task force grows because as this 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:40.079 investigation starts barreling forwards, So we have at least on 0:02:40.120 --> 0:02:42.440 the table I think you have the fourth victim, Maureen 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:45.440 Brainett Barnes will be added to the docket, and then 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:48.400 you have to look at the other six or seven 0:02:48.400 --> 0:02:52.280 individuals out there that were found along Gilgo, Manorville, and 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:56.600 Henstead Lake State Park. I name all those locations because unfortunately, 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:59.480 pieces of them, of these victims were found in all 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:03.000 of those locations, so they're all tied into Gilgo some 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:06.440 one way or another. And I think Peaches is up 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:08.880 next in regard to it, and I believe, and I 0:03:08.880 --> 0:03:11.000 think most of the people in the panel believe that 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:13.760 they already know who she is because they kind of 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:17.679 I think the Mobile Police Department kind of might have 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:20.160 made a mistake by putting out saying the FBI is 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:22.400 looking for help to try to identify this family member 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:26.560 and here's a tattoo. Yeah, I think, yeah, I think 0:03:26.600 --> 0:03:28.000 that was a I think that might have been. 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:29.960 An oops moment. But that was back in October. 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:35.200 So I think by now they've identified Peaches, which is important. 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:38.520 It is important, and I think they've identified her and 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:41.440 the Asian male, and I think we'll be hearing very 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:47.040 soon about both of those victims. Lisa Rabekov, holigraph expert 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:52.440 private investigator with a case of this magnitude, How do 0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:57.440 you think private investigators could possibly help this task force? 0:03:57.880 --> 0:04:04.600 And I'm thinking specifically interviews with sex workers, possibly internet searches, 0:04:04.720 --> 0:04:05.800 government records. 0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:08.280 What do you think, Well, you just named three out 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:10.480 of a couple of things that are on my list here, 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:13.200 so you're definitely ahead of the ball. I think that 0:04:13.240 --> 0:04:16.920 the resources that the task force has now are excellent, 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:20.560 and especially considering the communication and efforts that are being 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:24.719 done jurisdictionally across the board and the open lines of communication. 0:04:24.839 --> 0:04:27.919 But I do think that if there are individuals that 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:31.159 are licensed professionals that do have a skill set, that 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:33.240 the task Force could be reaching out to them, or 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:35.400 these individuals could be reaching out to the task Force 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:38.359 to donate their time and services, because I do feel 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:43.000 that interviewing the sex workers in the region area, possibly 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:46.800 even reinterviewing the ones that have already been interviewed, just 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:50.320 for a second set of eyes, is beneficial. As for searches, 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:54.360 As a licensed private investigator in any jurisdiction, we are 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:56.680 limited to what we are able to get our fingertips 0:04:56.680 --> 0:04:58.800 on and what we are allowed to have access to 0:04:58.839 --> 0:05:03.560 within our license. There could possibly be the idea of 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:07.599 again the open lines of communication with pis to provide 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:11.000 their resources in time to law enforcement to possibly save 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:16.240 resources and allocated towards other aspects of the investigation. I 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:19.719 know for myself, I've done a little bit of digging 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:23.880 all through public record researches on the basis of properties 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:27.000 in South Carolina, research here in New York pertaining to 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:31.320 the properties here. But again there's information that is accessible 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:34.120 to the public, and I think the public does need 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:37.320 to be aware that just because we have licenses to 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:41.920 conduct certain investigations and to conduct searches, that there has 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:43.320 to be permissible purposes. 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:44.280 And that's the. 0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:48.599 Fine line between being a licensed investigator and or working 0:05:48.600 --> 0:05:51.200 on a task force through a law enforcement agency versus 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:53.120 being a member of the general public just wanting to 0:05:53.120 --> 0:05:53.640 look around. 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:56.760 Excellent, And I like the point about volunteer their time 0:05:56.800 --> 0:06:00.440 and talent. Sometimes that could be the difference in you know, 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:03.080 getting a chance to look at something and not because 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:06.240 sometimes your budget doesn't cover what you're needing to do 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:08.680 on the case in the first place, much less bring 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:13.840 other people in. Mike Mo Morpord y'all know him as 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:17.840 the host of Criminology podcast, How are you Mac? I 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:20.320 am great, but I'm like everybody else. My mind just 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:24.440 keeps clicking with this Long Island serial killer thing because 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:28.160 it's like information comes every day for us. But when 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:30.640 I think about you, what comes to my mind is 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:34.160 I want to know if you're seeing from your listeners 0:06:34.680 --> 0:06:37.200 as far as the things that they're interested in on 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:39.480 this case, what are you noticing? 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:39.920 Well? 0:06:39.960 --> 0:06:42.880 I think everybody is sort of looking for the next 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:45.240 leg to sprout, because this case just seems to sprout 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:48.840 more legs. There's more locations, there's possible victims. A lot 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:50.919 of people want to know if there's any way that 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:54.479 he's connected to those Atlantic City victims. I think we 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:58.400 all probably agree that they're very well, maybe more victims 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:01.240 if he's out there. He's got these gaps time and 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:05.479 sometimes killers do stop for a time, but sometimes they don't, 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:08.520 and there are some stretches of time where it's not 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:12.040 known exactly who is doing it until those blanks get 0:07:12.040 --> 0:07:15.120 filled in. That's the thing I'm seeing is people just 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:18.520 want to see how many more people and how many 0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:21.360 lives has he taken, and where are they and where 0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:23.280 what's going to be the next headline to pop up? 0:07:23.280 --> 0:07:23.800 In this case. 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:26.320 Think you're right. The next headline is coming, and I 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:28.800 think there's going to be one after the other after 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:32.880 the other to try to understand and dissect. Now, Doctor 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:39.320 Joni Johnston, forensic psychologists, private investigator, author of serial Killers 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:44.720 one oh one questions true crime fans ask. You have 0:07:44.880 --> 0:07:49.000 said from day one that there's no way if the 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:52.559 Long Island serial killer is Rex that he started killing 0:07:52.600 --> 0:07:57.320 in his forties. We know now from the Fire Island 0:07:57.400 --> 0:08:01.239 Jane Doe being identified that she went missing in nineteen 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:05.200 ninety six, so that would put him right in that 0:08:05.640 --> 0:08:10.960 thirty something early thirty age bracket that gives us fifteen 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:15.120 years before the gill Go four. Just tell us what 0:08:15.200 --> 0:08:16.600 those numbers mean to you. 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:20.200 Well, those numbers are pretty frightening to me when I 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:22.640 think about the possibility of the number of victims that 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:25.960 could be out there, and you're absolutely right it is. 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:29.320 I think the average age that a serial killer starts 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:32.280 killing is around twenty eight and I think in nineteen 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:34.360 ninety six he would have been around twenty seven twenty 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:37.960 eight years old, So that really does line up with 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:41.120 the average. And then you think about, as you pointed out, 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:42.840 do you think about the fact that you know, you 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:46.199 fast forward thirteen years, fifteen years, and you think, you know, 0:08:46.720 --> 0:08:50.040 the younger he is, I think, the more likely there 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:53.960 are to be victims. And so, you know, is it 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:56.640 believable that he didn't kill a lot of victims after 0:08:57.120 --> 0:08:59.120 you know, the ones that were found in twenty ten, yes, 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:02.960 twenty thirteen, yes, But before that, I mean, I would 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:06.720 have imagined he would have been more active the younger 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:09.400 he was. And given that we know that he's been 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:12.480 tied to several states, now, you know, I imagining, just 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:15.480 imagination just kind of goes while thinking about all the 0:09:15.480 --> 0:09:16.440 possibilities here. 0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:20.480 Do you think that they're tied to locations where he 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:24.000 lived had some type of connection to or do you 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:27.400 just think he picked this spot and then just kept 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:28.840 it because he was comfortable there. 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:31.079 You know, when you look at their research on serial killers, 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:34.040 definitely most of them pick places where they are comfortable. 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:38.559 You know, that can be somebody somewhere close to work, 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:40.720 it could be their home, it can be somewhere close 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:44.000 to where they live. But very few serial killers go 0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:47.280 around different places that they're not familiar with. Even if 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:48.960 they're going to a place that where they don't live, 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:52.440 they typically do a lot of reconnisance beforehand because they 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:55.280 want they don't want it to be a lot of surprises. 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:58.640 They want to feel in control of the environment. 0:10:00.360 --> 0:10:06.320 Carrie Rawson, advocate, serial killer expert, author, It does seem like, 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:10.400 you know, things are changing every day and more information 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:13.480 is coming out and victims are being identified by name. 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:18.120 How do we continue to advocate for victims and keep 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:24.040 that mindset of being respectful towards victims, families and suspect 0:10:24.080 --> 0:10:27.120 families literally when stuff is changing every day. 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:29.719 That's a really good question and something I'm trying to 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:34.680 navigate because I'm in like several lanes here of trying 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:37.719 to advocate for like on the criminal side, for a 0:10:37.800 --> 0:10:42.960 family that's innocent victims like Asa and her kids, you know, 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:45.600 So I'm trying to speak up for them, but I'm 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:49.880 not wanting to cause harm to the victims. Families that 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:52.480 have lost somebody that you know, have a murder victim. 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:55.240 I know it's very difficult for them. You know, they're 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:58.360 seeing these go that's go fundme, Like Ace's family needs help, 0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:01.360 but their families need help too, right, And then it's 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:03.520 got to be brutal for these families, like some of 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:05.800 them are even on Twitter that have lost like their 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:10.520 sisters or cousins, and you know, like they're constantly in 0:11:10.600 --> 0:11:15.400 a timeline seeing Rex's face. And then like it's hard 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:17.960 for me because if I'm asked on record by a 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:21.600 media outlet to speak, you know, I might be giving 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:25.600 a victim advocacy component, but then I don't have any control, 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:27.800 as you all know, over whatever else is in that 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:31.200 article or the photo, right, Like I don't even have 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:33.920 control over that headline. So for me, my reality is 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:36.840 you're always going to see Btk's daughter, Like I don't 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:40.840 have any control of putting my victim advocacy work next 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:41.840 to Rex's photo. 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:44.800 You know, you'll you'll listen to the. 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:48.199 Seven victim families of my father's and some of them 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:51.560 are more vocal than others, but like they'll talk about 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:53.800 like how all this focus is on my dad, and 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:57.000 sometimes they'll say, hey, like you're focusing on him? 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:00.440 Man, Man, I got like lanes. 0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:03.600 I'm over here trying to walk really really carefully because 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:07.000 also the reality is I have things I can add 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:11.520 about the investigation, and you know, about these critters as 0:12:11.559 --> 0:12:14.080 I'm calling them, but like I want to be sensitive 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:16.840 to everybody and shoot, I don't know, Mac. 0:12:18.320 --> 0:12:21.120 Well, no, that was well stated. I mean that's the 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:24.080 reality of your world. You're saying, you're in all these 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:28.719 different lanes, but those lanes shift on you. 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:32.600 Yes, yes, ma'am, they think and as you were saying, 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:35.120 and everybody can attest to you in this Zone seven, 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:39.720 those lanes are moving very quickly, very rapidly, and we're 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:42.920 all being called in varying degrees to be news. 0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:51.000 You know, I'm thinking about all the folks that responded 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:54.160 to the different scenes and then especially the processing of 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:58.000 the home and you're talking about being ground zero for 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:02.960 two weeks, and you know there's some folks that already 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:06.760 have some PTSD happening. You know, some people at that 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:10.240 scene looked very very young. To me, Sergeant, talk a 0:13:10.240 --> 0:13:14.920 little bit about what does happen to you, because I know, 0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:17.960 doctor Jony and I were talking a minute ago. There's 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:20.600 an old saying that we all use. You can't unring 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:22.800 a bell and you can't unsee something. 0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:27.280 Well, yeah, especially coming from many of us who spent 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:30.360 lots of time down at Ground zero too and did 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:30.760 all that. 0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:34.400 And you know, in New York City cops. 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:36.760 Unfortunately especially, I mean I got on the police department 0:13:36.800 --> 0:13:39.000 in nineteen eighty two, and by nineteen ninety four we 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:41.360 had hit the you know, we were up. 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:43.440 I think that might have been like the high water market. 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:45.640 I think nineteen ninety was the highest for all of 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:47.080 the crime for murders. 0:13:47.559 --> 0:13:50.600 So we saw a lot of stuff, especially early on 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:53.800 in our careers, and as things went along, you kind 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:56.640 of get I guess you build up a resistance to it, 0:13:57.320 --> 0:13:59.800 and you know, you deal with your own you know, 0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:02.760 you own self defense mechanisms, and that that's why sometimes 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:06.160 if you watch that that crime scene or the search warrant, 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:08.160 you see some of the cops. 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:09.880 You know, just laughing or that kind of thing. It's 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:10.640 a defense makeans. 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:12.040 And a lot of people get upset about that when 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:13.800 they see cops laughing at crime scenes. 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:17.040 But I try to explain to people that you have 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:19.360 to do something. It's it's just to break up the 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:20.120 reality of it. 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:24.280 I know, uh, you know, doctor Joni there would definitely 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:28.280 have more of an inside on this, but just from 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:31.480 normal everyday cops. Yeah, these things can take the toll 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:34.040 on them. And and you know, mac a lot. 0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:36.160 Of people, a lot of cops they have they have 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:37.520 a lot of problems dealing with it. 0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:41.480 I mean, it's high alcoholism, there's high divorce rates, there's 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:43.520 all kinds of things that go along with policing, but 0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:44.960 it has to do with the job. 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:50.479 Itself, absolutely, and that humor. It is something not everybody understands. 0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:53.960 But sometimes you've got one or two choices either bust 0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:55.920 out crime or bust out laughing. And a lot of 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:59.840 people would rather laugh and you know, feel that camaraderie 0:14:59.840 --> 0:15:02.640 and that sort of thing at a scene. But I know, 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:06.920 for me, sometimes when you've got something that just is 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:11.200 really extra twisted and evil, there's only a handful of 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:14.240 people you can really talk to about it that falls 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:15.800 into the whole police culture. 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:17.680 In the blue cocoon, however you want to refer to 0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:20.000 it as I just had another guy. I spent a 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:22.040 lot of time in working with him. Unfortunately he took 0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:26.240 his life only a couple of weeks ago. I've known 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:29.640 a number of cops that killed themselves, and you know, 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:31.720 people say, well, they had family problems or they had 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:32.760 financial problems. 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:34.040 Yeah, I understand that, but. 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:36.880 It's like the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back. 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:41.440 So you know, it's important that police departments focus on 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:44.120 the mental health aspect of things. But it's a really 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:47.800 fine line they have to walk because if they really 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:50.840 research this and really get involved into it, you're going 0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:52.080 to have a lot of cops that are going to 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:54.240 get surveyed off the job and night and how police 0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:57.120 departments can't afford to have that. So it's like the 0:15:57.160 --> 0:16:00.440 dirty little secret when you're dealing with policing and that respect, 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:03.840 it's like it's ignorance and apathy, who knows and who cares, 0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:07.040 and it's it's the bottom line. They figured out if 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:09.400 that if something happens, we'll deal with it. Then until 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:11.480 then we're going to keep on, you know, pushing ahead. 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:15.640 Well, like Graham Hickson said, Coach Hickson, you know, we're 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:18.240 one school, we're one team, and I always feel like 0:16:18.400 --> 0:16:21.160 we're all one department and we need to make sure 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:24.360 all those folks that are working this case know that 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:28.680 they have our support and our respect and our help 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:31.040 if they need it. And that's another reason when you 0:16:31.120 --> 0:16:34.920 have a platform like morph has that you know you 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:38.480 can talk about things and you know have guests on 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:41.800 your show that even if one of your listeners is 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:45.280 maybe not aware of some help or maybe if they 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:47.240 just hear a story and go, hey, the same thing 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:50.440 is happening to me. Sometimes morph you may not even 0:16:50.520 --> 0:16:53.440 know the good you're doing for somebody by telling some 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:54.320 of these stories. 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:57.160 Yeah, and that's especially true on my podcast, The Murder 0:16:57.200 --> 0:17:00.440 of My Family, because I talk specifically with, you know, 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:05.640 survivors who've lost a family member to murder. And sometimes 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:09.280 they come on because they want to, you know, it 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:12.160 feels healing to talk about it, sometimes because their case 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:15.040 is unsolved and they're asking for help getting tips and 0:17:15.119 --> 0:17:18.720 leads generated, and sometimes because they want to help other people. 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:21.479 A lot of them will tell me there's no manual 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:24.840 on how to deal with this, but I've learned X, Y, 0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:27.000 and Z, and if I can help somebody else that's 0:17:27.040 --> 0:17:29.919 going through this, then you know, I'm happy to come 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:32.639 on and share my story. And I hear that quite often. 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:35.879 Now, Lisa, let's talk a little bit about the timeline. 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:38.639 The timeline to me is the money tree when you 0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:43.200 first start any homicide, but especially one of this vast 0:17:44.160 --> 0:17:48.600 parallel investigations and single investigations that are all going to 0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:52.480 somehow be woven together. But for me, on a timeline, 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:57.159 when you start identifying some of these victims from the 0:17:57.200 --> 0:17:59.919 Long Island serial killer. That's going to give us the 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:03.080 date that they actually disappeared, and that's going to fill 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:06.200 in some blanks. How important is that intail? 0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:10.080 I think once we start figuring out the timeline and 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:13.199 we know specifically when we can go ahead and have 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:17.080 the identification of these victims, we can then go back 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:19.280 and hit boots on the ground and start the interviews, 0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:22.240 start putting feelers out there, like Joe mentioned, putting a 0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:25.040 face to a name and going ahead and being able 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:29.359 to acquire those details to which then searches and investigations 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:31.320 can get done. So that way, I mean, even something 0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:34.200 as simple as doing a DMV search to go ahead 0:18:34.200 --> 0:18:37.440 and check a driver's license for last reported address, going 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:41.560 ahead and checking social security records, checking border registrations, checking 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:44.159 even their own criminal history. So that way we can 0:18:44.200 --> 0:18:46.199 develop a profile on the individual. 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:49.600 And there's two sides to that line. For me, when 0:18:49.600 --> 0:18:52.480 I do a timeline, it also is going to lock 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:55.560 him in if he's trying to come up with some 0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:59.239 alibis once we know dates he may or may not 0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:02.280 have alibis for some of these dates where the person 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:03.399 originally went missing. 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:05.919 Correct, I mean, there you could ask me, where was 0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:08.480 I six weeks ago at this specific date and time, 0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:11.119 and I'll tell you I have no clue. I'm not 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:12.840 going to know. I don't even remember what I did 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:15.159 yesterday or what I've rate and had for breakfast this morning. 0:19:15.600 --> 0:19:18.240 So it's going to take definitely a long shot from 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:20.320 him to be able to go ahead and figure out 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:22.200 where he was and what he was doing. And again 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:25.720 it possibly could come back to cell phone triangulations and 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:28.760 geofencing and see where his phone was hitting to jog 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:32.119 his memory. But again it comes down to recognition and 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:35.600 recall and memory and whether or not also, I mean, 0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:38.560 how much does he recall? I mean, we don't know 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:41.600 how many victims are actually associated with him. We don't 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:46.800 know his his specific level of psychology or even memory recall, 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:50.760 because how much information has he retained for each victim. 0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:52.200 We don't know if he kept a log or a 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:55.840 journal pertaining to the dates and circumstances and facts of 0:19:55.880 --> 0:19:58.560 whatever alleged murders he did commit, because there we know 0:19:58.640 --> 0:20:01.320 that there are some visuals that do commit crimes, that 0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:03.640 do commit a journal, keep a journal, keep a log 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:04.280 of what they have. 0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:05.840 We also don't. 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:10.000 Know depending upon what gets I guess produced with regards 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:13.120 to discovery on the basis of the search warrant in 0:20:13.280 --> 0:20:16.480 South Carolina, because we know that the vehicle was ascertained. 0:20:17.000 --> 0:20:20.600 But with regard to those searches, his brother has possession 0:20:20.600 --> 0:20:23.320 of the car as per the search warrant, we don't 0:20:23.359 --> 0:20:26.200 know if he possibly had that vehicle at one point, 0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:29.240 if he's ever changed license plates on the vehicle, Why 0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:32.520 specifically did he transfer the car to his brother, or 0:20:32.560 --> 0:20:35.840 even most importantly, what was the date of the transfer 0:20:36.040 --> 0:20:38.280 to his brother? Is there a symbolism behind that? 0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:43.480 Great and that's all timeline information? And doctor Joni Lisa 0:20:43.520 --> 0:20:45.760 makes an excellent point, and it's one that I think 0:20:45.800 --> 0:20:49.479 everybody on this panel has talked about. I firmly believe 0:20:49.600 --> 0:20:53.280 he's going to have journals and calendars and maps, and 0:20:53.400 --> 0:20:56.440 I think he's been very detailed in what he's done. 0:20:56.920 --> 0:20:58.240 What do you think I. 0:20:58.240 --> 0:21:01.320 Tend to agree with you about that, Cheryl. He's an 0:21:01.400 --> 0:21:05.320 architect number one, which implies that he's pretty detail oriented. 0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:08.520 The amount of research he did on some of the 0:21:08.560 --> 0:21:12.560 families and continue to follow them makes me feel like 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:15.720 there are certainly an obsessive part of him. Is somebody 0:21:15.720 --> 0:21:20.560 who keeps revisiting information, So I agree with you. I 0:21:20.560 --> 0:21:23.400 think there will be some written information that he has 0:21:23.480 --> 0:21:24.920 kept somewhere, and. 0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:28.240 I think there's some things that he does almost wrote, 0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:32.840