1 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:12,480 Speaker 1: When I was in high school, we were headed to 2 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:17,280 Speaker 1: the state championship in volleyball, and our coach had a 3 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: great idea to have the football coach kind of come 4 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: and pump us up. And he was a famous high 5 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: school football coach, Graham Hickson Honey, and we were so 6 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: excited to hear from him. And I'll never forget he 7 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: walks in, he looks at all of us, and he says, 8 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:42,599 Speaker 1: y'all are not the Woodward Academy women's volleyball team. You 9 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: are the Woodward Academy volleyball team. He said, you don't 10 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 1: have last names on your jersey for a reason. We 11 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: are one team, Woodward Academy. And the football team and 12 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 1: the swim team and the golf team. Everybody's behind you. 13 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 1: That is how I phil today about the people that 14 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 1: again have stopped everything going on in their world to 15 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: come meet with us to talk about the Long Island 16 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:13,039 Speaker 1: serial killer. And I appreciate every one of them. And 17 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:19,279 Speaker 1: I'm gonna get right to Sergeant Joseph Jackaloney. He worked 18 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: cold cases with NYPD, He worked at the Homicide School. 19 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: He received the Medal of Valor. And when I tell y'all, 20 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: he wrote the book literally he wrote the book on 21 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: cold cases and then he followed up with the second 22 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: book on criminal investigation, so he has the cold case 23 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:44,399 Speaker 1: handbook and the criminal investigation function. So, Sergeant, I'm going 24 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: to go right to you, what do you think is 25 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: next for this investigation? The next steps? 26 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 2: I think we have to find out who our other 27 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 2: identified victims are, right, So we have Peaches and we 28 00:01:56,280 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 2: have Asian male and along with Peaches is we know 29 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 2: as her daughter Jane baby Dough that they referred to 30 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 2: or as And it's important that we identify these individuals 31 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 2: because if law enforcement wants to solve the case, you 32 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:11,360 Speaker 2: have to start off with who your victim is, so 33 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:13,920 Speaker 2: that you can go back and try to piece together 34 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 2: what was going on in that person's life, who they 35 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 2: were hanging out with, what they were doing, and of 36 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 2: course maybe somebody remembers something back then, because when you 37 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 2: put a face to a name, then all of a sudden, 38 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 2: a lot of things come back to the surface. 39 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 1: Do you see this task force being even larger than 40 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 1: we think that it is. 41 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 2: Yes, I think the task force grows because as this 42 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:40,079 Speaker 2: investigation starts barreling forwards, So we have at least on 43 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 2: the table I think you have the fourth victim, Maureen 44 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 2: Brainett Barnes will be added to the docket, and then 45 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 2: you have to look at the other six or seven 46 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 2: individuals out there that were found along Gilgo, Manorville, and 47 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 2: Henstead Lake State Park. I name all those locations because unfortunately, 48 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 2: pieces of them, of these victims were found in all 49 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 2: of those locations, so they're all tied into Gilgo some 50 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 2: one way or another. And I think Peaches is up 51 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 2: next in regard to it, and I believe, and I 52 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 2: think most of the people in the panel believe that 53 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 2: they already know who she is because they kind of 54 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:17,679 Speaker 2: I think the Mobile Police Department kind of might have 55 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 2: made a mistake by putting out saying the FBI is 56 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 2: looking for help to try to identify this family member 57 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 2: and here's a tattoo. Yeah, I think, yeah, I think 58 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 2: that was a I think that might have been. 59 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 3: An oops moment. But that was back in October. 60 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 2: So I think by now they've identified Peaches, which is important. 61 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: It is important, and I think they've identified her and 62 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: the Asian male, and I think we'll be hearing very 63 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 1: soon about both of those victims. Lisa Rabekov, holigraph expert 64 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 1: private investigator with a case of this magnitude, How do 65 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: you think private investigators could possibly help this task force? 66 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: And I'm thinking specifically interviews with sex workers, possibly internet searches, 67 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: government records. 68 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 4: What do you think, Well, you just named three out 69 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 4: of a couple of things that are on my list here, 70 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 4: so you're definitely ahead of the ball. I think that 71 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 4: the resources that the task force has now are excellent, 72 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 4: and especially considering the communication and efforts that are being 73 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:24,719 Speaker 4: done jurisdictionally across the board and the open lines of communication. 74 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:27,919 Speaker 4: But I do think that if there are individuals that 75 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,159 Speaker 4: are licensed professionals that do have a skill set, that 76 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 4: the task Force could be reaching out to them, or 77 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 4: these individuals could be reaching out to the task Force 78 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:38,359 Speaker 4: to donate their time and services, because I do feel 79 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 4: that interviewing the sex workers in the region area, possibly 80 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 4: even reinterviewing the ones that have already been interviewed, just 81 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 4: for a second set of eyes, is beneficial. As for searches, 82 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 4: As a licensed private investigator in any jurisdiction, we are 83 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 4: limited to what we are able to get our fingertips 84 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 4: on and what we are allowed to have access to 85 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 4: within our license. There could possibly be the idea of 86 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 4: again the open lines of communication with pis to provide 87 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 4: their resources in time to law enforcement to possibly save 88 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 4: resources and allocated towards other aspects of the investigation. I 89 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:19,719 Speaker 4: know for myself, I've done a little bit of digging 90 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 4: all through public record researches on the basis of properties 91 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 4: in South Carolina, research here in New York pertaining to 92 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 4: the properties here. But again there's information that is accessible 93 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 4: to the public, and I think the public does need 94 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 4: to be aware that just because we have licenses to 95 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:41,920 Speaker 4: conduct certain investigations and to conduct searches, that there has 96 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 4: to be permissible purposes. 97 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:44,280 Speaker 5: And that's the. 98 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:48,599 Speaker 4: Fine line between being a licensed investigator and or working 99 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 4: on a task force through a law enforcement agency versus 100 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 4: being a member of the general public just wanting to 101 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 4: look around. 102 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 1: Excellent, And I like the point about volunteer their time 103 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: and talent. Sometimes that could be the difference in you know, 104 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: getting a chance to look at something and not because 105 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 1: sometimes your budget doesn't cover what you're needing to do 106 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 1: on the case in the first place, much less bring 107 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:13,840 Speaker 1: other people in. Mike Mo Morpord y'all know him as 108 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 1: the host of Criminology podcast, How are you Mac? I 109 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 1: am great, but I'm like everybody else. My mind just 110 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: keeps clicking with this Long Island serial killer thing because 111 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:28,160 Speaker 1: it's like information comes every day for us. But when 112 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 1: I think about you, what comes to my mind is 113 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 1: I want to know if you're seeing from your listeners 114 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: as far as the things that they're interested in on 115 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:39,480 Speaker 1: this case, what are you noticing? 116 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 4: Well? 117 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 6: I think everybody is sort of looking for the next 118 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 6: leg to sprout, because this case just seems to sprout 119 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:48,840 Speaker 6: more legs. There's more locations, there's possible victims. A lot 120 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:50,919 Speaker 6: of people want to know if there's any way that 121 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:54,479 Speaker 6: he's connected to those Atlantic City victims. I think we 122 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 6: all probably agree that they're very well, maybe more victims 123 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 6: if he's out there. He's got these gaps time and 124 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:05,479 Speaker 6: sometimes killers do stop for a time, but sometimes they don't, 125 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 6: and there are some stretches of time where it's not 126 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 6: known exactly who is doing it until those blanks get 127 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 6: filled in. That's the thing I'm seeing is people just 128 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 6: want to see how many more people and how many 129 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 6: lives has he taken, and where are they and where 130 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 6: what's going to be the next headline to pop up? 131 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 3: In this case. 132 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: Think you're right. The next headline is coming, and I 133 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 1: think there's going to be one after the other after 134 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: the other to try to understand and dissect. Now, Doctor 135 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 1: Joni Johnston, forensic psychologists, private investigator, author of serial Killers 136 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: one oh one questions true crime fans ask. You have 137 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 1: said from day one that there's no way if the 138 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:52,559 Speaker 1: Long Island serial killer is Rex that he started killing 139 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: in his forties. We know now from the Fire Island 140 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:01,239 Speaker 1: Jane Doe being identified that she went missing in nineteen 141 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: ninety six, so that would put him right in that 142 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 1: thirty something early thirty age bracket that gives us fifteen 143 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 1: years before the gill Go four. Just tell us what 144 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 1: those numbers mean to you. 145 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 7: Well, those numbers are pretty frightening to me when I 146 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 7: think about the possibility of the number of victims that 147 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 7: could be out there, and you're absolutely right it is. 148 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 7: I think the average age that a serial killer starts 149 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 7: killing is around twenty eight and I think in nineteen 150 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 7: ninety six he would have been around twenty seven twenty 151 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 7: eight years old, So that really does line up with 152 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 7: the average. And then you think about, as you pointed out, 153 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 7: do you think about the fact that you know, you 154 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,199 Speaker 7: fast forward thirteen years, fifteen years, and you think, you know, 155 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 7: the younger he is, I think, the more likely there 156 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 7: are to be victims. And so, you know, is it 157 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 7: believable that he didn't kill a lot of victims after 158 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 7: you know, the ones that were found in twenty ten, yes, 159 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 7: twenty thirteen, yes, But before that, I mean, I would 160 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 7: have imagined he would have been more active the younger 161 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 7: he was. And given that we know that he's been 162 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 7: tied to several states, now, you know, I imagining, just 163 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 7: imagination just kind of goes while thinking about all the 164 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 7: possibilities here. 165 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: Do you think that they're tied to locations where he 166 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 1: lived had some type of connection to or do you 167 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 1: just think he picked this spot and then just kept 168 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 1: it because he was comfortable there. 169 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:31,079 Speaker 7: You know, when you look at their research on serial killers, 170 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 7: definitely most of them pick places where they are comfortable. 171 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:38,559 Speaker 7: You know, that can be somebody somewhere close to work, 172 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 7: it could be their home, it can be somewhere close 173 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 7: to where they live. But very few serial killers go 174 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 7: around different places that they're not familiar with. Even if 175 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 7: they're going to a place that where they don't live, 176 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 7: they typically do a lot of reconnisance beforehand because they 177 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 7: want they don't want it to be a lot of surprises. 178 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 7: They want to feel in control of the environment. 179 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:06,320 Speaker 1: Carrie Rawson, advocate, serial killer expert, author, It does seem like, 180 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 1: you know, things are changing every day and more information 181 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: is coming out and victims are being identified by name. 182 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 1: How do we continue to advocate for victims and keep 183 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 1: that mindset of being respectful towards victims, families and suspect 184 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: families literally when stuff is changing every day. 185 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:29,719 Speaker 8: That's a really good question and something I'm trying to 186 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:34,680 Speaker 8: navigate because I'm in like several lanes here of trying 187 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:37,719 Speaker 8: to advocate for like on the criminal side, for a 188 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 8: family that's innocent victims like Asa and her kids, you know, 189 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 8: So I'm trying to speak up for them, but I'm 190 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 8: not wanting to cause harm to the victims. Families that 191 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 8: have lost somebody that you know, have a murder victim. 192 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 8: I know it's very difficult for them. You know, they're 193 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 8: seeing these go that's go fundme, Like Ace's family needs help, 194 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 8: but their families need help too, right, And then it's 195 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 8: got to be brutal for these families, like some of 196 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 8: them are even on Twitter that have lost like their 197 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 8: sisters or cousins, and you know, like they're constantly in 198 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 8: a timeline seeing Rex's face. And then like it's hard 199 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 8: for me because if I'm asked on record by a 200 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 8: media outlet to speak, you know, I might be giving 201 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 8: a victim advocacy component, but then I don't have any control, 202 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 8: as you all know, over whatever else is in that 203 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 8: article or the photo, right, Like I don't even have 204 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 8: control over that headline. So for me, my reality is 205 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 8: you're always going to see Btk's daughter, Like I don't 206 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 8: have any control of putting my victim advocacy work next 207 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 8: to Rex's photo. 208 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 5: You know, you'll you'll listen to the. 209 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,199 Speaker 8: Seven victim families of my father's and some of them 210 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:51,560 Speaker 8: are more vocal than others, but like they'll talk about 211 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 8: like how all this focus is on my dad, and 212 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 8: sometimes they'll say, hey, like you're focusing on him? 213 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:00,440 Speaker 5: Man, Man, I got like lanes. 214 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 8: I'm over here trying to walk really really carefully because 215 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 8: also the reality is I have things I can add 216 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 8: about the investigation, and you know, about these critters as 217 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 8: I'm calling them, but like I want to be sensitive 218 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 8: to everybody and shoot, I don't know, Mac. 219 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 1: Well, no, that was well stated. I mean that's the 220 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 1: reality of your world. You're saying, you're in all these 221 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:28,719 Speaker 1: different lanes, but those lanes shift on you. 222 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 8: Yes, yes, ma'am, they think and as you were saying, 223 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 8: and everybody can attest to you in this Zone seven, 224 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 8: those lanes are moving very quickly, very rapidly, and we're 225 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 8: all being called in varying degrees to be news. 226 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 1: You know, I'm thinking about all the folks that responded 227 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 1: to the different scenes and then especially the processing of 228 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 1: the home and you're talking about being ground zero for 229 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 1: two weeks, and you know there's some folks that already 230 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 1: have some PTSD happening. You know, some people at that 231 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 1: scene looked very very young. To me, Sergeant, talk a 232 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 1: little bit about what does happen to you, because I know, 233 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:17,960 Speaker 1: doctor Jony and I were talking a minute ago. There's 234 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 1: an old saying that we all use. You can't unring 235 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 1: a bell and you can't unsee something. 236 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, especially coming from many of us who spent 237 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 2: lots of time down at Ground zero too and did 238 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 2: all that. 239 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 3: And you know, in New York City cops. 240 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 2: Unfortunately especially, I mean I got on the police department 241 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty two, and by nineteen ninety four we 242 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 2: had hit the you know, we were up. 243 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:43,440 Speaker 3: I think that might have been like the high water market. 244 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 3: I think nineteen ninety was the highest for all of 245 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:47,080 Speaker 3: the crime for murders. 246 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 2: So we saw a lot of stuff, especially early on 247 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 2: in our careers, and as things went along, you kind 248 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 2: of get I guess you build up a resistance to it, 249 00:13:57,320 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 2: and you know, you deal with your own you know, 250 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 2: you own self defense mechanisms, and that that's why sometimes 251 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 2: if you watch that that crime scene or the search warrant, 252 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 2: you see some of the cops. 253 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 3: You know, just laughing or that kind of thing. It's 254 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 3: a defense makeans. 255 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 2: And a lot of people get upset about that when 256 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:13,800 Speaker 2: they see cops laughing at crime scenes. 257 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 3: But I try to explain to people that you have 258 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 3: to do something. It's it's just to break up the 259 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 3: reality of it. 260 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 2: I know, uh, you know, doctor Joni there would definitely 261 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 2: have more of an inside on this, but just from 262 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 2: normal everyday cops. Yeah, these things can take the toll 263 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 2: on them. And and you know, mac a lot. 264 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 3: Of people, a lot of cops they have they have 265 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 3: a lot of problems dealing with it. 266 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 2: I mean, it's high alcoholism, there's high divorce rates, there's 267 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 2: all kinds of things that go along with policing, but 268 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 2: it has to do with the job. 269 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:50,479 Speaker 1: Itself, absolutely, and that humor. It is something not everybody understands. 270 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 1: But sometimes you've got one or two choices either bust 271 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 1: out crime or bust out laughing. And a lot of 272 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: people would rather laugh and you know, feel that camaraderie 273 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: and that sort of thing at a scene. But I know, 274 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: for me, sometimes when you've got something that just is 275 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: really extra twisted and evil, there's only a handful of 276 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: people you can really talk to about it that falls 277 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 1: into the whole police culture. 278 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 2: In the blue cocoon, however you want to refer to 279 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 2: it as I just had another guy. I spent a 280 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 2: lot of time in working with him. Unfortunately he took 281 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 2: his life only a couple of weeks ago. I've known 282 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 2: a number of cops that killed themselves, and you know, 283 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 2: people say, well, they had family problems or they had 284 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 2: financial problems. 285 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, I understand that, but. 286 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 2: It's like the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back. 287 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 2: So you know, it's important that police departments focus on 288 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 2: the mental health aspect of things. But it's a really 289 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 2: fine line they have to walk because if they really 290 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 2: research this and really get involved into it, you're going 291 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 2: to have a lot of cops that are going to 292 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 2: get surveyed off the job and night and how police 293 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 2: departments can't afford to have that. So it's like the 294 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 2: dirty little secret when you're dealing with policing and that respect, 295 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 2: it's like it's ignorance and apathy, who knows and who cares, 296 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 2: and it's it's the bottom line. They figured out if 297 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 2: that if something happens, we'll deal with it. Then until 298 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 2: then we're going to keep on, you know, pushing ahead. 299 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: Well, like Graham Hickson said, Coach Hickson, you know, we're 300 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 1: one school, we're one team, and I always feel like 301 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 1: we're all one department and we need to make sure 302 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 1: all those folks that are working this case know that 303 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 1: they have our support and our respect and our help 304 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 1: if they need it. And that's another reason when you 305 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: have a platform like morph has that you know you 306 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: can talk about things and you know have guests on 307 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 1: your show that even if one of your listeners is 308 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: maybe not aware of some help or maybe if they 309 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 1: just hear a story and go, hey, the same thing 310 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: is happening to me. Sometimes morph you may not even 311 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 1: know the good you're doing for somebody by telling some 312 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: of these stories. 313 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 6: Yeah, and that's especially true on my podcast, The Murder 314 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 6: of My Family, because I talk specifically with, you know, 315 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:05,640 Speaker 6: survivors who've lost a family member to murder. And sometimes 316 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 6: they come on because they want to, you know, it 317 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:12,160 Speaker 6: feels healing to talk about it, sometimes because their case 318 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 6: is unsolved and they're asking for help getting tips and 319 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 6: leads generated, and sometimes because they want to help other people. 320 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:21,479 Speaker 6: A lot of them will tell me there's no manual 321 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 6: on how to deal with this, but I've learned X, Y, 322 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 6: and Z, and if I can help somebody else that's 323 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:29,919 Speaker 6: going through this, then you know, I'm happy to come 324 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,639 Speaker 6: on and share my story. And I hear that quite often. 325 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:35,879 Speaker 1: Now, Lisa, let's talk a little bit about the timeline. 326 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,639 Speaker 1: The timeline to me is the money tree when you 327 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 1: first start any homicide, but especially one of this vast 328 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 1: parallel investigations and single investigations that are all going to 329 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:52,480 Speaker 1: somehow be woven together. But for me, on a timeline, 330 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:57,159 Speaker 1: when you start identifying some of these victims from the 331 00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:59,919 Speaker 1: Long Island serial killer. That's going to give us the 332 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: date that they actually disappeared, and that's going to fill 333 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:06,200 Speaker 1: in some blanks. How important is that intail? 334 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 4: I think once we start figuring out the timeline and 335 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:13,199 Speaker 4: we know specifically when we can go ahead and have 336 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 4: the identification of these victims, we can then go back 337 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 4: and hit boots on the ground and start the interviews, 338 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 4: start putting feelers out there, like Joe mentioned, putting a 339 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 4: face to a name and going ahead and being able 340 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 4: to acquire those details to which then searches and investigations 341 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 4: can get done. So that way, I mean, even something 342 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 4: as simple as doing a DMV search to go ahead 343 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 4: and check a driver's license for last reported address, going 344 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 4: ahead and checking social security records, checking border registrations, checking 345 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:44,159 Speaker 4: even their own criminal history. So that way we can 346 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:46,199 Speaker 4: develop a profile on the individual. 347 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 1: And there's two sides to that line. For me, when 348 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 1: I do a timeline, it also is going to lock 349 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 1: him in if he's trying to come up with some 350 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:59,239 Speaker 1: alibis once we know dates he may or may not 351 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 1: have alibis for some of these dates where the person 352 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 1: originally went missing. 353 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:05,919 Speaker 4: Correct, I mean, there you could ask me, where was 354 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 4: I six weeks ago at this specific date and time, 355 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:11,119 Speaker 4: and I'll tell you I have no clue. I'm not 356 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 4: going to know. I don't even remember what I did 357 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:15,159 Speaker 4: yesterday or what I've rate and had for breakfast this morning. 358 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 4: So it's going to take definitely a long shot from 359 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 4: him to be able to go ahead and figure out 360 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 4: where he was and what he was doing. And again 361 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 4: it possibly could come back to cell phone triangulations and 362 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 4: geofencing and see where his phone was hitting to jog 363 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:32,119 Speaker 4: his memory. But again it comes down to recognition and 364 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 4: recall and memory and whether or not also, I mean, 365 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 4: how much does he recall? I mean, we don't know 366 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 4: how many victims are actually associated with him. We don't 367 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 4: know his his specific level of psychology or even memory recall, 368 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 4: because how much information has he retained for each victim. 369 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 4: We don't know if he kept a log or a 370 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 4: journal pertaining to the dates and circumstances and facts of 371 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 4: whatever alleged murders he did commit, because there we know 372 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 4: that there are some visuals that do commit crimes, that 373 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:03,640 Speaker 4: do commit a journal, keep a journal, keep a log 374 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 4: of what they have. 375 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 5: We also don't. 376 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 4: Know depending upon what gets I guess produced with regards 377 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,120 Speaker 4: to discovery on the basis of the search warrant in 378 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 4: South Carolina, because we know that the vehicle was ascertained. 379 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 4: But with regard to those searches, his brother has possession 380 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 4: of the car as per the search warrant, we don't 381 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 4: know if he possibly had that vehicle at one point, 382 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 4: if he's ever changed license plates on the vehicle, Why 383 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 4: specifically did he transfer the car to his brother, or 384 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 4: even most importantly, what was the date of the transfer 385 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 4: to his brother? Is there a symbolism behind that? 386 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 1: Great and that's all timeline information? And doctor Joni Lisa 387 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 1: makes an excellent point, and it's one that I think 388 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:49,479 Speaker 1: everybody on this panel has talked about. I firmly believe 389 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: he's going to have journals and calendars and maps, and 390 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 1: I think he's been very detailed in what he's done. 391 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 1: What do you think I. 392 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 7: Tend to agree with you about that, Cheryl. He's an 393 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 7: architect number one, which implies that he's pretty detail oriented. 394 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 7: The amount of research he did on some of the 395 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 7: families and continue to follow them makes me feel like 396 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 7: there are certainly an obsessive part of him. Is somebody 397 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 7: who keeps revisiting information, So I agree with you. I 398 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:23,400 Speaker 7: think there will be some written information that he has 399 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:24,920 Speaker 7: kept somewhere, and. 400 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 1: I think there's some things that he does almost wrote, 401 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 1: that he doesn't even realize he does, Like sergeant you know, 402 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 1: you know there are some cops with NYPD that could 403 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 1: not work undercover. Everything about them screams they're a police officer, 404 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,119 Speaker 1: like straight out of Central Casting. You know what I'm 405 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 1: talking about. 406 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:48,120 Speaker 3: Oh absolutely, I was one of them. 407 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, well I was going to theorize that, and that's 408 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:56,440 Speaker 1: what I'm saying that, Like that one photograph with you 409 00:21:56,520 --> 00:22:01,160 Speaker 1: when you're in your London fog, you look straight up 410 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 1: like if I was doing a movie and I needed 411 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 1: somebody to play a New York City police man, you're 412 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 1: it sor all day. And I think with you know, Rex, 413 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,680 Speaker 1: if he is the Long Island serial killer, there are 414 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 1: things that he did from the aspect of his training 415 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 1: in his career that he doesn't even realize he's doing. 416 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:22,679 Speaker 1: That tells who he is. 417 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,479 Speaker 2: Well, sure, I mean this guy, there's usually something with 418 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 2: these individuals in regards to you know that background specifically, 419 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,879 Speaker 2: I mean, we know that environment and experience and of 420 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 2: course some biological things that would make these these guys tick. 421 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 2: But you know, to be able to pull something like 422 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:45,679 Speaker 2: this office so long too, also gives you that in 423 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 2: depth that. 424 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:47,680 Speaker 3: You know he is. 425 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 2: He is kind of smart in certain aspects. He knew 426 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,160 Speaker 2: he knew what he was doing. Yeah, he made mistakes, 427 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 2: but that's where you know, law enforcement has to come in. 428 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:57,120 Speaker 3: But to identify those. 429 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,360 Speaker 2: Mistakes, you just from the law enforcement perspective, and I've 430 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 2: said this before, you need to try to find out 431 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 2: who the first victim was because that's where he makes 432 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 2: the most errors. 433 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 3: Right. 434 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 2: So I think we're starting to see that with some 435 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 2: of these cases. Now you know, did he make mistakes 436 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 2: because he got sloppy, or did he make mistakes because 437 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 2: he was in a rush? I mean, all of those things, 438 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 2: you know, come to play. One of the things that 439 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:22,199 Speaker 2: I've been asking over and over again they try to 440 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 2: get a conversation on, is we really never talk about 441 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:30,359 Speaker 2: where these homicides happened, right, you know, where do they occur? 442 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,119 Speaker 2: I know some people think that they have, you know, 443 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 2: something happened in the house. I still don't believe anything 444 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,200 Speaker 2: happened in the house. Too many nosy neighbors there as 445 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,479 Speaker 2: a Pequa Park. You took it to a kid who 446 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:43,840 Speaker 2: grew up on Long Island. You know it's they're very close. 447 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 2: The houses are really close. You can see that, you 448 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,200 Speaker 2: know when you're watching the videos on there too. Everybody 449 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:49,719 Speaker 2: knows everybody else's business. 450 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 3: The other thing is, did. 451 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,480 Speaker 2: It happen in a hotel or people say, well, hotels, Yeah, no, 452 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 2: it didn't happen. Too much surveillance, right, too much videos. 453 00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 2: You got to check in in order to get a room, 454 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,479 Speaker 2: you have to show your all that stuff. 455 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 3: I doubt anything happened. And this guy's huge. 456 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 2: I mean, he's he's not somebody who could hide and 457 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 2: plain sight and in regards to you know, a group 458 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,640 Speaker 2: of people, he would stand out under every circumstance. 459 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: And how do you get a dead body in and 460 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 1: out of a hotel room twenty times and nobody notices. 461 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I'm saying with all, especially with all 462 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 2: this Savaila, this is survaillance video, even in the staircases 463 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 2: or when you're trying to exit the doors, or you know, 464 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 2: inside and outside. I find that not plausible at all 465 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 2: to me. I keep on going back to the truck. 466 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 2: You know where he's. 467 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 3: Going out with the with the women. 468 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 2: You know, we know that he's got a couple of 469 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,360 Speaker 2: them to leave their cell phones at home the night 470 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 2: that they disappeared. 471 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:41,439 Speaker 3: You know, maybe he picks them up in his truck 472 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:42,119 Speaker 3: or what have you. 473 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 2: I mean, this is of course all speculation, but that's 474 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 2: what we're doing here, right, We're just taking a look 475 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,199 Speaker 2: at it and seeing we could put pieces together, just 476 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 2: like you know, normal investigations would happen. But you know, 477 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,120 Speaker 2: I think that's important, and I think they were surprised 478 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 2: that these trucks even exist because he has two avalanches. 479 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,399 Speaker 2: People think a lot of people overskip the they. 480 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 3: Took two avalanches. So that's that's the kind of neat 481 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:04,919 Speaker 3: aspect of this thing. 482 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,320 Speaker 1: But see, I agree with you, Joe. I think one 483 00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:09,640 Speaker 1: was for killing and one was for driving. So when 484 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:11,879 Speaker 1: he stopped and they take that car, there's no blood 485 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 1: in it, there's no hair in it, there's no killing 486 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 1: tools and weapons in it. So Mike, let me go 487 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 1: to you. We know that he's associated with different properties, 488 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: you know, Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, Arizona, Rhode Island. 489 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 3: Whatever. 490 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,119 Speaker 1: Do you think that he's got some little piece of 491 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 1: land somewhere that he can pull that truck into some 492 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 1: trees and do whatever he wants for as long as 493 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 1: he wants, and then has some burr lap and some 494 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:41,119 Speaker 1: buckets and some tubs that he puts people in and 495 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,120 Speaker 1: body parts in and the transports them. 496 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,679 Speaker 6: It wouldn't shock me. I mean, this guy, from what 497 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:48,919 Speaker 6: we do know he's alleged to have done, and the 498 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,680 Speaker 6: things you know that the clues that have been revealed, 499 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:57,440 Speaker 6: it wouldn't surprise me. In the areas he probably frequented 500 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,440 Speaker 6: to find these victims, they're probably not going to be 501 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,440 Speaker 6: where a lot of people are willing to come forward, 502 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:05,359 Speaker 6: so he can probably have a little more privacy and 503 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 6: the fact that those people aren't going to be out 504 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 6: there coming forward to work with police on a regular basis. 505 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 6: So I think right from the time he would pick 506 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 6: them up to wherever he was disposing of them or 507 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 6: actually murdering them, he probably you know, hoped and sought 508 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 6: out as much privacy as he could, because, as Joe said, 509 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:31,239 Speaker 6: there's no way he stands out. He's just wherever he's at. 510 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:32,639 Speaker 6: If he's with a group of people, you're going to 511 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 6: see him out of everyone else. The places he could 512 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 6: go are probably limited, but we know this guy's a hunter, 513 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 6: so I'm willing to bet he knows some stretches of woods, 514 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 6: some waterways where there's not going to be people, and 515 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 6: that's a place where he could maybe take these some 516 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:54,119 Speaker 6: of these victims or disposed of them and without prying 517 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:55,120 Speaker 6: eyes looking at him. 518 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 4: We're talking about waterways, we're talking about land, and we're 519 00:26:58,320 --> 00:26:59,879 Speaker 4: talking about privacy. 520 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 5: Through my I guess rabbit hole and needs to know. 521 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 4: Regarding this investigation, I actually did some record searches down 522 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 4: in South Carolina, and apparently his chunk of land that 523 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 4: he purchased down there, Number one has a sign on 524 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:21,439 Speaker 4: the fence or which is surrounding the entire property that 525 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 4: says no warrant, no entry. So that right there, I mean, 526 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 4: I know for me, I wouldn't even if I had 527 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:31,879 Speaker 4: a house at one point I had a fan some 528 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 4: Why would I put. 529 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 1: That on there? 530 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:35,880 Speaker 4: Why would I raise suspicion of my neighbors. Why would 531 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:37,960 Speaker 4: I possibly want to go ahead and even just put 532 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 4: that out there. If I wasn't going to be a 533 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:44,879 Speaker 4: law abiding citizen, why go ahead and have suspicion raised 534 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:46,439 Speaker 4: upon you? And the other side of it is if 535 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 4: I didn't do anything wrong. Why would I even put 536 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 4: that there to begin with, So that right there is 537 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,400 Speaker 4: kind of interesting. The second interesting about the property is 538 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,120 Speaker 4: that through land records, I was able to go ahead 539 00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 4: and access the actual tax property and they what they 540 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,959 Speaker 4: do is they do an aerial photo in addition to 541 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 4: showing the grid lines of where the property lines extend to. 542 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 4: And he actually purchased the property which sits on two 543 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 4: bodies of water, and he's down here in South Carolina. 544 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,399 Speaker 4: It's literally the middle of nowhere. If you were to 545 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 4: zoom out on the property address and take a look 546 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 4: at the land around it, for at least two hundred 547 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,879 Speaker 4: and fifty miles, there's not a single body of water. 548 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 4: But this man conveniently purchases the property and his property 549 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,239 Speaker 4: line contains access to two bodies of water. And mean 550 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,399 Speaker 4: they're small lakes, they look like they could possibly be 551 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 4: man they're obviously man made for the development. But he's 552 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 4: got access in the back of the house as well 553 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 4: as the front of the house. 554 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 6: And just to piggyback on something Lisa just said, she's 555 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 6: doing searches for properties that he has owned or had 556 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 6: access to, But what about properties family members of his? 557 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 6: What about properties that he had when he was younger, 558 00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 6: or places that he knew of that aren't even in 559 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,920 Speaker 6: his name. There could be a plethora of different places 560 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 6: he's familiar with that aren't necessarily tied to him. 561 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 1: And Mike, is funny you said that because I even 562 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 1: thought he has an adult son, is he using his 563 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 1: name and social Security number to buy property. 564 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 4: Or even to rent? Long Island procedure is that you 565 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 4: just go ahead, or I mean probably most places, is 566 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 4: that as long as you have sometimes a parent, if 567 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 4: you have to co sign on a place, I know 568 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 4: I had to do it when I first moved out 569 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 4: of my parents' house. I had to bring my parents 570 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 4: as a co signer on the lease, just so they 571 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 4: knew that I was going to be paying money every month. 572 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 4: And I just showed a photo ID and considering the 573 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 4: fact that the Sun is special needs, that could be 574 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 4: a justification for him being on a piece of property 575 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 4: just as a rental and then paying cash. 576 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: Carrie, let me ask you something. When some of these 577 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: theories come up and people are talking and now we're 578 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 1: just saying something about the sun that may or may 579 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 1: not even be accurate. But again, how hurtful is that 580 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 1: to his mama, his sister. 581 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 8: You just have to deviate, like and make sure you're 582 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 8: clarifying that he could like it's not the sun doing 583 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 8: this that you know, like allegedly like Rex could be 584 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 8: using his kids' names or social Security numbers. I mean, 585 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 8: there's several components here, Like you just have to remember 586 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 8: in these conversations, like it's all my father's fault, It's 587 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 8: it's all allegedly Rex's fault. 588 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,080 Speaker 5: Like all of this devastation. 589 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:38,080 Speaker 8: Death, disruption to the community, PTSD, like what everybody's enduring 590 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 8: law enforcement task force go away from their families, Like 591 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 8: in the case of my father, there were detectives that 592 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 8: devoted like decades, right, they were looking for my dad 593 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 8: for three decades. There were detectives that passed away and 594 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 8: never saw my dad getting caught. And there were these 595 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 8: stacks of files that were being handed down a decade 596 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 8: over decade, like to these young guns that were coming up. 597 00:30:58,600 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 5: Through the ranks. 598 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 8: And the reality is like my father's first case was 599 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 8: in seventy fourth, so we're getting close to fifty years here. 600 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 8: I have detectives that I call my detectives, Right, they 601 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 8: were on the task force. They helped catch my dad 602 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 8: they're retiring now, so my detectives they're retiring, and now 603 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 8: literally Btk's daughter has been handed to some new guy. 604 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 8: And when I say a new guy, I mean he's 605 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 8: been on the task he's been on the police force 606 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 8: like twenty some years. He's probably my age, right, so 607 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 8: he's he helped like he was part of like some 608 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 8: gang task force and he got to sort of help 609 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 8: arrest my dad. But if you talk to the Wichita guys, 610 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 8: they all help. They're literally now like, okay, who do 611 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,800 Speaker 8: we hand his daughter to? Right as somebody retires, Like 612 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 8: who do we hand these files to? 613 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 5: But all it all goes back. It's all my dad's 614 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 5: fault and it's all Rex's fault. 615 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:53,960 Speaker 8: But like like doctor Jony can help me here. But 616 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:55,959 Speaker 8: the thing is when you guys are talking about like 617 00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 8: we don't know where Rex took his victims, Like I'm 618 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 8: assuming he did pick them up at a motel and 619 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,960 Speaker 8: then he transported them in the truck alive somewhere, or 620 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 8: maybe he bound them somewhere, But I don't know if 621 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 8: he could have done that at the motel. Somehow he 622 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 8: got them away from wherever he was meeting him, or 623 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,040 Speaker 8: he has some location where he met them. I mean, 624 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 8: that's where you got to look in the records. The 625 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 8: thing is, I just don't think he would have spent 626 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 8: the time he did with him in the truck. That 627 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 8: doesn't make sense to me, Like you would have to 628 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 8: park that truck somewhere covered. Now, of course, you could 629 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 8: be transporting bodies in there, or you could have dismembered 630 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 8: people and then transported him. The evidence will tell us 631 00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,040 Speaker 8: that that was happening in the truck. But if you're 632 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,240 Speaker 8: spending time with them and bounding them and wrapping them 633 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 8: and the cares, that's where I get all messed up 634 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 8: and confused this because it's like he was very careful 635 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,239 Speaker 8: with Go Go for and it just doesn't match the 636 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,560 Speaker 8: other ones. But it doesn't mean it's not him, because 637 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 8: you know, they evolve and they change. I just it 638 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,240 Speaker 8: feels to me like we're missing some corn it sort 639 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 8: of key component. Like my father broke into homes and 640 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:07,239 Speaker 8: then used those victims how to us as coverage, and 641 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 8: he ran into all sorts of scenarios he wasn't expecting, 642 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 8: and he had to adapt. 643 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:15,200 Speaker 5: Rex really eliminated a lot of the trouble. 644 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 8: My dad would use the word trouble that my dad 645 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:21,200 Speaker 8: ran into because he's literally controlling this like petite, little 646 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 8: five foot woman, you know, but we don't. I don't 647 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:27,480 Speaker 8: know did he take him back home, did he take 648 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 8: him in the vault? I mean, evident will tell us 649 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:34,680 Speaker 8: right or property records or investigations. It's just it feels 650 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 8: like this missing component to me right now, and I 651 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 8: don't know what it is. 652 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,800 Speaker 7: Man, I feel the same way carry that there's something missing, 653 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 7: and I don't know. I do feel like he is 654 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 7: going to take them somewhere that's enclosed. I have a 655 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 7: hard time also seeing him doing all of these things 656 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 7: in a truck outdoors. I also I have no problem 657 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:58,480 Speaker 7: seeing him transporting bodies in a truck as well. To me, 658 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:03,600 Speaker 7: given his reputation in the neighborhood as somebody who was 659 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:09,200 Speaker 7: kept himself, some people saw him as scary or odd. 660 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:13,799 Speaker 7: The family was very aloof To me, It's not out 661 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,080 Speaker 7: of the realm of possibility that he could find a 662 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 7: way at night to bring somebody to his house with 663 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:23,080 Speaker 7: his family being gone, and spend a lot of time 664 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,520 Speaker 7: in that vault with them and then transport them out. 665 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,239 Speaker 7: But it'll be interesting to see. I feel like you know, 666 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 7: we don't know. Obviously I'm completely speculating, but I do 667 00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 7: think he is taking them somewhere where he feels comfortable 668 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,319 Speaker 7: and he can take as much time as he wants 669 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:39,759 Speaker 7: to with them. And maybe the hunting, maybe somebody has 670 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 7: a hunting cabin that he borrows or whatever. That's the 671 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 7: other possibility. But it's hard for me to see him 672 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:48,239 Speaker 7: doing something where he's not completely comfortable physically as well 673 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:49,200 Speaker 7: as psychologically. 674 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:53,920 Speaker 1: All right, anybody else want to throw out anything. 675 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,640 Speaker 6: It was just sort of I think we forget that 676 00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 6: when obviously we talked about his family being victims of 677 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,160 Speaker 6: a different kind. Obviously that they weren't murder victims. He 678 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:10,200 Speaker 6: victimized them in another way. But just the police obviously 679 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:11,959 Speaker 6: have to go into that house and tear that house 680 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,480 Speaker 6: apart looking for evidence, but to see those pictures of 681 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 6: what they were left with, because now they've got to 682 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 6: deal with this aftermath. And then if they're going to 683 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,280 Speaker 6: live in this house, how do you live in that house? 684 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 6: I mean, beside what may have happened there and the 685 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,759 Speaker 6: things are probably worried about now, it's the bath hub 686 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,880 Speaker 6: ripped out of the thing I was, you know, it 687 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,719 Speaker 6: reminded me of what these homes look like sometimes when 688 00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 6: the police go through them looking for evidence. And you know, 689 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,640 Speaker 6: I wondered what Carrie's thoughts are on something like that. 690 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,959 Speaker 8: As a citizen and as a crime victim, I don't 691 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:50,480 Speaker 8: honestly know are there laws that protect victim like crime 692 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,800 Speaker 8: victim families of the criminals. And then in a crime 693 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 8: scene like you take Idaho for like, is there any 694 00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:01,160 Speaker 8: sort of law or protections like hoop for that cleanup? 695 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:04,600 Speaker 8: Is there a cleanup or do the police just release it? 696 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:06,400 Speaker 8: I mean, you guys can address that in a second. 697 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:11,000 Speaker 8: But like from my viewpoint, my situation was different because 698 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:15,240 Speaker 8: my dad confessed the first night they basically held against 699 00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 8: my dad. He was holding out for them for the 700 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:20,960 Speaker 8: last first like six hours and then interrogation. He was 701 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,839 Speaker 8: playing games and he was he was being like just 702 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 8: a real big pill, like and everybody knew they had 703 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,520 Speaker 8: em and they basically were just getting kind of fed 704 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 8: up with him, and they said, look, they're like, we know, 705 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,040 Speaker 8: we know your BTK, and we know you have. 706 00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:40,120 Speaker 5: Evidence in your house. You know, they knew he had 707 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:40,640 Speaker 5: sent in. 708 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,640 Speaker 8: A driver's license from his eighty six murder, and they 709 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,239 Speaker 8: knew they figured he had other driver's license, and there 710 00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:48,360 Speaker 8: were jewelry missing, and so they're like, we know you 711 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:51,799 Speaker 8: have stuff where like where is that stash? Like your 712 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,279 Speaker 8: most important evidence? And they said, if you don't give 713 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,399 Speaker 8: it to us, we're gonna we're gonna toss your your 714 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:02,040 Speaker 8: house and really harm Paula, my mom and the kids. 715 00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:04,840 Speaker 8: We're gonna make things worse on them by tossing that house. 716 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:07,719 Speaker 8: So from what I understand, they literally use that as 717 00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 8: a pressure point to get my dad to give up 718 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,360 Speaker 8: the goods, which was evidence that was buried under a 719 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,920 Speaker 8: floorboard in our hallway. Now, they would have had to 720 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:17,279 Speaker 8: toss that house pretty darn hard to find that because 721 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:21,640 Speaker 8: it was under a really heavy cabinet. Right, So between 722 00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:24,399 Speaker 8: that and having the evidence they had and my dad 723 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:26,600 Speaker 8: and then my dad just finally saying yeah, you got 724 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:28,960 Speaker 8: me on BTK and then my dad gave him a 725 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,719 Speaker 8: thirty hour confession, which we're not seeing here with res 726 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,320 Speaker 8: that we know of. So the situation's different because my 727 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:39,080 Speaker 8: dad was cooperative. He walked them through everything he told him. 728 00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:42,640 Speaker 8: Like my dad has an insane memory even nowadays, he 729 00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:44,719 Speaker 8: can tell like we were all saying, we don't know 730 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:46,719 Speaker 8: what we had for breakfast. My dad can give you 731 00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,680 Speaker 8: an alibi for some week and in October in nineteen ninety. 732 00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:52,239 Speaker 8: Now it might not be true, it might have ten 733 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,440 Speaker 8: lies around it. But he literally can still remember things 734 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:57,880 Speaker 8: down to like the name of a creek where he 735 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,359 Speaker 8: put a body in like nineteen one, Like he can 736 00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:05,040 Speaker 8: draw you the bridge. Like that's the insane level that 737 00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:10,319 Speaker 8: my father still operates at. And he's elderly, so it's 738 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:13,200 Speaker 8: just a different situation. So, like Mike was asking about 739 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:16,040 Speaker 8: the house, it's hard for me to see like all 740 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:19,080 Speaker 8: of that evidence piled out. But Mackett, you made a 741 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:21,400 Speaker 8: good point, like they got to go in there. We 742 00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,279 Speaker 8: don't know if crimes were committed there, like you have, 743 00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:26,680 Speaker 8: like as a crime scene tech, you have to go 744 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,799 Speaker 8: in and you have to look at everything. I mean, 745 00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:32,480 Speaker 8: I understand from the evidence point what they got to do. 746 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:34,520 Speaker 8: I would have just liked to see some team go 747 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:36,759 Speaker 8: in there and kind of fix it for them. And 748 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:41,920 Speaker 8: literally I don't understand, Like this is where like the 749 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,480 Speaker 8: trauma comes in, Right, You're so traumatized and you're like, well, 750 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,359 Speaker 8: I'm just going to go back and live in my house. Well, 751 00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:50,239 Speaker 8: this is where the disconnect is and somebody needs to 752 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:52,400 Speaker 8: come in like doctor Jony and work with these people 753 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:57,120 Speaker 8: like like psychology and trauma therapy and victims' advocates and 754 00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,279 Speaker 8: come in and go like, hey, guys, you're living in 755 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,880 Speaker 8: a crime scene. Can we get you like a safe, quiet, 756 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,319 Speaker 8: new place to live and be like. 757 00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:06,040 Speaker 5: So you can heal. 758 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:18,600 Speaker 1: Nothing about murder is clean. Everything is messy, everything is horrible, 759 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:22,680 Speaker 1: Everything is gross. So to me, when you look at Peaches, 760 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:27,160 Speaker 1: I believe that her baby, doctor Jonie said the other day, 761 00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:33,680 Speaker 1: sadly was collateral damage. When you look at what happened 762 00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:39,200 Speaker 1: to that house, sorry, that's collateral damage. But again Rex 763 00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:43,040 Speaker 1: did that. He did that to his family, and as 764 00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,719 Speaker 1: a crime scene person, looking at that house almost like 765 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:52,279 Speaker 1: they're hoarders. I have no idea what any of that 766 00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,279 Speaker 1: stuff is and how it fits. So I'm going to 767 00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,000 Speaker 1: try to take all of it. And then I believe 768 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,840 Speaker 1: he does have things hidden. I think he's got maps 769 00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:07,080 Speaker 1: and journals and codes and little notations on bar napkins 770 00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:11,160 Speaker 1: possibly and some type of way that he's kept a 771 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,680 Speaker 1: log of things. I want every bit of it. I'm 772 00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:18,239 Speaker 1: gonna make holes in the wall, I'm gonna pull up 773 00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:22,040 Speaker 1: the floor, and I'm gonna move anything that is obviously 774 00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:25,319 Speaker 1: too heavy because I don't trust what's behind it, or 775 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:28,839 Speaker 1: what's underneath it, or frankly, what's inside it. So I've 776 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,279 Speaker 1: got to know. And again, it is horrible and it 777 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:34,440 Speaker 1: is sad, but I'm gonna tell you something. If you 778 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,279 Speaker 1: were to ask those families had you'd rather have your 779 00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:41,920 Speaker 1: house tore up and get your child back, Well, there 780 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:42,239 Speaker 1: you go. 781 00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,960 Speaker 6: I use the term ripple effect because it's when these 782 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:50,800 Speaker 6: guys do this kind of thing. They destroy everybody's lives, 783 00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:55,560 Speaker 6: their families, they're victims. They're victims, families, the officers that 784 00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:59,279 Speaker 6: they've got to put all the stress on and what 785 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:02,759 Speaker 6: they've got to say. So nothing good comes from this. 786 00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:08,759 Speaker 6: This is these people destroying countless lives in so many ways. 787 00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:12,920 Speaker 1: And the ripple effect is massive, and it continues like 788 00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:16,920 Speaker 1: there's just another tidal wave and then another tidal wave. 789 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,280 Speaker 1: The more you find out stuff, You're absolutely right, sergeant, 790 00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:21,520 Speaker 1: any final fault. 791 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:25,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, Generally, the way these things work, the family can 792 00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,920 Speaker 2: have recourse. And if you listen to the press conference 793 00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,319 Speaker 2: when they ask the district attorney about the house, and 794 00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:35,160 Speaker 2: you said that she can file any kind of you know, 795 00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:37,680 Speaker 2: things she wants to which I think was kind of 796 00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:40,359 Speaker 2: foretelling because generally the way these things work is that 797 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:42,799 Speaker 2: when they do the search warrant, if the police go 798 00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:46,240 Speaker 2: in and they don't find evidence, they generally the city, 799 00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:48,799 Speaker 2: of the state or the county there is responsible for 800 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:52,600 Speaker 2: fixing things and repairing it, but if they find evidence 801 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:54,920 Speaker 2: of a crime, they kind of walk away from it 802 00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:57,440 Speaker 2: and say this is all on you now. So I 803 00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:00,560 Speaker 2: thought that was kind of foretelling that the district there, 804 00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:02,800 Speaker 2: and he said, well, she can try any way she wants. 805 00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:04,080 Speaker 1: Yep, agreed. 806 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:06,480 Speaker 7: I think that's one thing I wanted to just say 807 00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:08,799 Speaker 7: as we kind of wrap things up, is just this 808 00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,560 Speaker 7: idea of the ripple effect and also just how it 809 00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:14,759 Speaker 7: affects so many different people differently and depending upon the 810 00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:18,879 Speaker 7: role and the relationship with the individuals, and I think 811 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,239 Speaker 7: it is important. I know, Joe, you were talking about 812 00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,759 Speaker 7: some of the silent suffering that police officers endure for 813 00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:27,200 Speaker 7: years and the things that they see, and Carrie talking 814 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:29,080 Speaker 7: about some of the things that you've gone through. I 815 00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:32,560 Speaker 7: think you know there are resources, and there need to 816 00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:36,160 Speaker 7: be more resources, and I think particularly resources in terms 817 00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:39,000 Speaker 7: of talking to people who have been through the same 818 00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:41,239 Speaker 7: thing that you have. I think when you're talking about 819 00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:45,480 Speaker 7: a trauma like this, whether you lost somebody to homicide, 820 00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:49,560 Speaker 7: or you spent years viewing homicides, or you grew up 821 00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:52,000 Speaker 7: with somebody who was committing homicides. I think I don't 822 00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:55,600 Speaker 7: know if there's any substitute for finding other people who 823 00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:58,760 Speaker 7: can really understand, and they're not that many people who understand. 824 00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:02,040 Speaker 7: And professional counseling fantastic, and therapy is fantastic as well. 825 00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:05,799 Speaker 7: Obviously I promote that as a psychologist, but I do 826 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:09,200 Speaker 7: think that peer piece of it is really really important. 827 00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,759 Speaker 8: I've done so much trauma therapy and I'm back in it, 828 00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:16,400 Speaker 8: and yeah, it has it has helped. It's one of 829 00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:18,920 Speaker 8: the components that has helped save my life. You know, 830 00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,360 Speaker 8: faith has helped save my life. My own strength that 831 00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:23,600 Speaker 8: my dad taught me or I was born with and 832 00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:27,680 Speaker 8: he honed, and literally he built me partly to be strong, 833 00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:29,680 Speaker 8: I think because he knew what was coming. I really 834 00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:33,600 Speaker 8: think my dad built me partly, built into me to 835 00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:36,359 Speaker 8: stand up to him, which I did on multiple occasions. 836 00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:38,560 Speaker 5: It's interesting when you think about it that way. 837 00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:42,279 Speaker 8: But all of these components, my faith and you know, 838 00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:45,200 Speaker 8: my children, all this stuff keeps me alive. But really 839 00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:48,840 Speaker 8: what's brought me back to life is really like the 840 00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,960 Speaker 8: development of my Zone seven and really just in the 841 00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:55,960 Speaker 8: last half year really honestly, since Coberger was arrested, like 842 00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:56,719 Speaker 8: all of. 843 00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:58,000 Speaker 5: These people have come into my life. 844 00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:01,360 Speaker 8: I'm like, now you guys are all like becoming colleagues 845 00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:05,040 Speaker 8: or like family, Like I really don't have much family anymore. 846 00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:08,600 Speaker 8: And so for me, you know, Mac and I were 847 00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:10,879 Speaker 8: talking like all of this hell is happening all over 848 00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:14,720 Speaker 8: here and it's got awful, but we all like find 849 00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,799 Speaker 8: each other in it, and we we get closer, you know, 850 00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,040 Speaker 8: like we're all in it together as we're like working 851 00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:21,600 Speaker 8: the problem. 852 00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:23,279 Speaker 5: That's what I call it. Like we're all over here 853 00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:24,640 Speaker 5: working this problem. 854 00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:28,799 Speaker 8: Together, and we build, we build like our family as 855 00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:32,280 Speaker 8: we're like educating and learning. I'm literally sitting here learning 856 00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:35,920 Speaker 8: from you all tonight. But like I'm I'm getting a 857 00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:36,680 Speaker 8: family back. 858 00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:39,480 Speaker 5: So that's that's like that. 859 00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:43,400 Speaker 8: Key component, like doctor Joni was talking about about having 860 00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:45,279 Speaker 8: each other and there aren't that many people that can 861 00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:47,319 Speaker 8: deal on the level that I need people to deal. 862 00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:51,720 Speaker 8: And so like when I find like my my true 863 00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:54,680 Speaker 8: crime netters is, I'm pretty happy because it's like I 864 00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:56,360 Speaker 8: found my face, I found my people. 865 00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:59,359 Speaker 1: Well, getting your family back I kind of the kind 866 00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:03,880 Speaker 1: of got to me, all right, I like it. I 867 00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:06,360 Speaker 1: like that all day. I do thank you all, and 868 00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:10,440 Speaker 1: I you know, I do believe you know what coach 869 00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:13,399 Speaker 1: used to say, you know, one school, one team. Well, 870 00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,680 Speaker 1: I feel like we're one community in one family. I mean, 871 00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:17,319 Speaker 1: I really do. 872 00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:17,960 Speaker 2: So. 873 00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:21,080 Speaker 1: I just appreciate y'all desperately. So now I'm going to 874 00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:24,239 Speaker 1: wrap up so y'all can get to the bar. I mean, 875 00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:32,040 Speaker 1: to your family the exactly. Well, that's how we do. 876 00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:35,319 Speaker 4: As long as you're not taking the family to the boy. 877 00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:38,240 Speaker 1: You know, don't question my parenting. 878 00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:39,200 Speaker 5: It works for us. 879 00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:39,399 Speaker 2: Man. 880 00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:42,479 Speaker 5: I'm in Manhattan right now, Manhattan, New York. I got 881 00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:45,279 Speaker 5: every often imaginable bar, and. 882 00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:47,360 Speaker 1: You need to go take advantage of about nine of 883 00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:50,160 Speaker 1: them and enjoy yourself. I'm going to eat end Zone 884 00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:52,560 Speaker 1: seven the way that I always do with a quote. 885 00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:57,600 Speaker 1: We will support this task for us with every tool 886 00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:02,120 Speaker 1: it needs to hopefully bring this investigation in these murders 887 00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:08,160 Speaker 1: to a successful conclusion. Michael J. Driscoll, Assistant Director of 888 00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:12,840 Speaker 1: the FBI of New York. I'm Cheryl McCollum, and this 889 00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:13,720 Speaker 1: is Zone Heaven,