1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff mom never told you. From house topports 2 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: dot com. Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen 3 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:18,759 Speaker 1: and I'm Caroline. And Caroline A stuff my mom did 4 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: tell me when I was a kid. Don't nag? Oh? 5 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: Do you not nag me? Oh? Yeah? Would you nag 6 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 1: your mother? They were probably times when I did repeatedly 7 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:37,480 Speaker 1: ask her for the same thing. So I don't know though, 8 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:45,199 Speaker 1: whether her suggesting requesting that I not nag her was 9 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: more a product of her being a stressed out mother 10 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: of five and also working, or if I really was 11 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: a little nag running around. Yeah, I don't I this 12 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 1: is going to be another one of those episodes where 13 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 1: there's a lot of real talk and a lot of 14 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: like looking looking deep inside Kristen. I mean, I don't 15 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: mean looking deep inside Kristen, I mean looking deep inside myself. Comma, Kristen, 16 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: you can look inside of me too and talk about 17 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: all of our complaining. Um, because really, sometimes there's nothing 18 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:20,680 Speaker 1: better than a really good wine. Yeah. But are those 19 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 1: three distinct things, nagging, complaining and whining? Nagging? Is they're 20 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: all related? Obviously, it's not a stretch to imagine how 21 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: those things are related. Um, complaining and nagging are a 22 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:38,320 Speaker 1: little bit different. There's there's a little Van diagram where 23 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 1: nagging and complaining are on separate circles and they overlap 24 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 1: in the middle. Um, whining. I think it's also it 25 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: would be like a three wave in diagram let's get 26 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: let's get real interesting, So whining would also be in there, 27 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 1: But that's more of like a maybe you don't want 28 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 1: your problem solved, you're literally just whining. Maybe you're me 29 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: and haven't had anything to eat yet and you start 30 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 1: to get like a little bit whiny and sound like 31 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: a four year old. Or maybe you're comedian Matt Belassie 32 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: who drinks wine and then wines about it and makes 33 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 1: hilarious videos out of it. Yes. No, my friend did 34 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: recently have a get together referred to as wine and 35 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 1: whining that was basically meant for us to all just 36 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 1: get together and complain and did it feel good? Um, well, 37 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:30,359 Speaker 1: I think we didn't stick to the whining part of it. 38 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: I think we just chitch atted. Winning was certainly a 39 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 1: part of it, because I don't think you can separate 40 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: complaining out of any conversation. You've got to really try hard. 41 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:40,800 Speaker 1: There are so many people out there on the internet 42 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:44,119 Speaker 1: right now who are writing columns and blogs about how 43 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 1: they've tried to give up complaining for a week or 44 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: a month or a year and and what it does 45 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: to them. And it's so funny to see the difference 46 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 1: between the people who are so earnest about it, who 47 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 1: are like, I need to change my life, I need 48 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: to get right and live right and stop planning and 49 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: be grateful, versus the people who were like, oh, not 50 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 1: complaining is the worst. Complain complain, complain, because I feel 51 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 1: like I would be in that second camp of people 52 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 1: that not complaining it's the worst. Yeah, And and not 53 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:18,799 Speaker 1: that I not that I don't agree that we need 54 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: all collectively too maybe complain less, be grateful more. But 55 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 1: there's so many different facets to complaining and what it 56 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: means for you and your friends versus maybe your boss 57 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: versus maybe your mom and your co workers. Like, there's 58 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: all sorts of different language and bonding connections that can 59 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 1: be made around complaining. And so one of those columns 60 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: we were reading by one of those women who bravely 61 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: tried to go without complaining, she ended up pointing out that, 62 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: like listen, it's a noble cause to try to stop 63 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: complaining about every single thing every minute of the day, 64 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 1: like let go lighten up. But there is something to 65 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: be said for being able to bond over a shared like, Man, 66 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 1: that movie was terrible or that food was gross. That's 67 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: stuff I've never told you. Podcasts, thanks, there's so much 68 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:22,280 Speaker 1: vocal fry. Vocal fry. Yeah, I'm personally seeking more of 69 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 1: a complaint balance in my life because on the one hand, 70 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 1: I know that I am probably not a very productive 71 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 1: complainer because if there's something really really upsetting me, once 72 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:37,039 Speaker 1: I get going, I have to tell you every single 73 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:40,720 Speaker 1: detail of it, and that's probably too much. But then 74 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 1: on the other hand, if I'm not telling you anything 75 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:49,679 Speaker 1: that's wrong in my life, that probably means I'm shutting 76 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: down emotionally and bottling things up and finding a happy 77 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:59,039 Speaker 1: medium is actually kind of challenging for me. So this 78 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 1: research person and only was very illuminating and gave me 79 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:09,279 Speaker 1: lots of food for thought flash complaining, because the thing 80 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: about it, the first complaint we can have about complaining 81 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:16,920 Speaker 1: is that we develop in it a way from our 82 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 1: parents that that parent child communication me talking to my 83 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: mom and her telling me not to be a nagg. 84 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 1: It's all rooted back there, not surprisingly. Yeah, so it's 85 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 1: a learned behavior. Basically, we would use it to wear 86 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 1: our parents down to get what we wanted. And it's 87 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 1: often the only way that kids can communicate when they're uncomfortable. 88 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:40,280 Speaker 1: If they're very very very young, very little kids, and 89 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 1: they don't have great communication skills, they might only know 90 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 1: how to tell you that they're uncomfortable, hungry, tired, cold, 91 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: scared by whining. And this is especially true if maybe 92 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:55,720 Speaker 1: they've tried to communicate with you quietly or sweetly or 93 00:05:55,760 --> 00:06:01,039 Speaker 1: whatever previously, but you don't set down the whatever project 94 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:03,920 Speaker 1: you're doing or whatever and look at them until they 95 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:07,839 Speaker 1: start to throw a fit and wine. An evolutionary psychologist 96 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:13,480 Speaker 1: would tell you that we do this because it's an 97 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 1: evolved instinct to raise a stink essentially about potential serious threat. 98 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: So now I like to imagine that like a cave woman, 99 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: Mom is pushing a grocery cart through the aisle and 100 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: she's got her cave baby, and the cave baby's like, Mom, 101 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 1: the saber tooth tiger watch all. And she's like, oh 102 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: my god, we've got to watch out of the saber 103 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: tooth tiger sye, so like it has a great evolutionary benefit, 104 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: as I just proved for avoiding saber tooth tiger attacks 105 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 1: in prehistoric grocery stores. Right exactly, No, I'm glad you understand. Um. Well, 106 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: so if we look at the types of adult human 107 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: people complainers it we deal with today, it is interesting 108 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 1: to see who complains and how much and why because 109 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 1: there are different wise of complaining. So on average, these 110 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: human people I'm referring to complain to each other about 111 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: once a minute, which sort of blew my mind. And 112 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: then I just, you know, thought about any thought process 113 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: or conversation I ever have, and then it made sense 114 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: and I was like, yeah, I again again. I'm just 115 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: proven research all over the place. And when it comes 116 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 1: to personalities, no surprise. People high on the agreeableness scale 117 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: are less likely to complain because there's so gosh they're 118 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: in agreeable. But this relationship surprised me. People with high 119 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: self esteem, Oh yeah, they're complainers, but they're probably complaining 120 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: differently than just your average win er. Yeah. So these 121 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 1: people complain with a goal, and this is what's referred 122 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: to as instrumental complaints. And these people with high self 123 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: esteem are more confident that their grievances are actually legit 124 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: and that speaking up will turn the tide in their favor. 125 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 1: So these are people who will say, instead of just 126 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 1: suffering with a terrible hotel room or a bad dining experience, 127 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 1: they will speak up. They're not gonna whine about it. 128 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 1: They're gonna have the facts and the logic and the 129 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: knowledge in their brain of what to say and who 130 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: to say it too, not just opening their mouths and 131 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 1: flapping their lips about how terrible an experience was. They 132 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: go into a situation with the confidence that I am 133 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: going to address this. And there's even a relationship between 134 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:41,079 Speaker 1: that more instrumental complaining and happiness, as psychology professor Robin 135 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:45,599 Speaker 1: Kowalski has researched, because she's looked a lot into mindfulness 136 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 1: and this idea of really focusing on the present and 137 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: its connection to happiness, because obviously, if you're more focused 138 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 1: on the present than all the what if surrounding you, 139 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: you're probably gonna be a little bit happier. And her 140 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 1: research has found that those mindful people act with more 141 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: intention and complain with more intention. They're only complaining when 142 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: it's serving a purpose, and that leads to happier outcomes. Yeah, exactly. 143 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: And so those are just a couple of goals of complaining. 144 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: And there are so many more. Though. I talked about 145 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 1: the facets of a complaint, and there are so many 146 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: and you know, maybe some of these apply to you today, 147 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 1: maybe some of them apply to you tomorrow. You can 148 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: have many different reasons for complaining. Um, But basically there 149 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 1: are two main types. You're either complaining about yourself or 150 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: somebody else. Right, So, when you complain about yourself, that's 151 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: called a reflexive complaint. Maybe you're complaining about how I 152 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 1: really screwed up that test, or God, I'm so cold, 153 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: this is awful. Um. When you're complaining about someone else, 154 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: that is called an ostensive complaint. And the fancy term 155 00:09:54,720 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: for venting, which would usually probably go under ostensive complaints, 156 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 1: would be referred to as an expressive complaints because we 157 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 1: have these things called intrapsychic goals, and that is the 158 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 1: goal of venting or these expressive complaints, because we're looking 159 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: to make ourselves feel better mentally. Rather than changing something, 160 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: we just need to get it off our minds inventing 161 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 1: that that's my problem, my VENTI problem, which makes me 162 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 1: think that I'm at Starbucks and I need to tell 163 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 1: you every single thing because I just need to get 164 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 1: it out of me exactly and and again. And we'll 165 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: we'll get into this a little bit later. But venting 166 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:36,680 Speaker 1: is good. You need to vent, you need to blow 167 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: off steam. It becomes bad when it crosses a line 168 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: into like, Okay, well maybe you're fixated and you're obsessing 169 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 1: about things that you obviously can't change. And so but 170 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:46,839 Speaker 1: don't worry. I don't want to spoil anything yet. Let's 171 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 1: talk some more about what's called blasting. So this falls 172 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 1: under venting. Uh. Kristen mentioned intrapsychic goals, which is basically 173 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 1: the goal of venting to make yourself feel better. But 174 00:10:56,920 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 1: there's also interpersonal goals of venting, which is called blasting. 175 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: And that's when you complain in order to distance yourself 176 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 1: from someone else, to demonstrate superiority or potentially distract from 177 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 1: your own poor performance. So complaining about oh, he's such 178 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 1: a bad driver, she's so messy, you're then kind of 179 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:16,559 Speaker 1: putting yourself up a little bit higher than someone by 180 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 1: complaining about them. And then you have complaining in order 181 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 1: to convince others of your importance and this is distinct 182 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: from blasting, which is just to demonstrate your superiority, because 183 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:32,559 Speaker 1: this belongs more under the old humble bragging umbrella that 184 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:35,679 Speaker 1: we devoted an entire episode two. It's the whole thing 185 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:37,680 Speaker 1: of like, oh, I'm so busy, I work so hard, 186 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: I've got so many important things to do, and it 187 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: just stresses me out so much. Do you know how 188 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: hard it is to be this beautiful? And that's all 189 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:49,559 Speaker 1: about impression management because you want to you want to complain, 190 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:52,680 Speaker 1: you don't want to stay out right, I'm gorgeous, love 191 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 1: me and said, You'll say, you know how hard it 192 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 1: is to be beautiful because no one can relate to you. 193 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: Right in the example that in Atlanta article that we 194 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 1: read gave for impression management was you know, going to 195 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 1: a fancy restaurant and complaining that they don't have the 196 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: perfect wine, the wine that you just love, because it's 197 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 1: it's giving an impression to your fellow diners that, like, 198 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 1: my standards are just so incredibly high, you wouldn't even 199 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 1: believe in this restaurant. Well, it's it's fine. I mean, 200 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 1: I know, it's three d dollars a plate. It's it's 201 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 1: just okay, talk about whining about it. But then let's 202 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: say you're at that fancy restaurant with hopefully not this 203 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: insufferable person who is really proud of his or her 204 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 1: wine knowledge, and you need to break the ice. Maybe 205 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:41,079 Speaker 1: you're on a first date, or maybe things are awkward. 206 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: Complaining via small talk is a reliable way to bond. Yeah, 207 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: it's like it's a really quick and reliable way to 208 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: develop a poor If I come up to you at 209 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:56,959 Speaker 1: a party and it's like, oh, hey, it's really it's fault. 210 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 1: It's gorgeous outside, you're like, yeah, it's it's really nice. 211 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 1: But if I come up to you, it's almost like 212 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 1: developing a quick unit. Complaining helps you be like, oh, 213 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 1: I know, I hate when that's so and so person talks, 214 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:11,839 Speaker 1: or oh I know traffic around here is terrible, let 215 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 1: me tell you about what happened to me. We really 216 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 1: seem to get off like as humans on complaining to 217 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 1: each other about stuff around us, and it really ties 218 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 1: into the other another facet of why we complain, which 219 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 1: is to feel more validated, more supported, and less alone. 220 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 1: One example that we read was parents at a play 221 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 1: group complaining about their wild toddlers because not only are 222 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 1: they getting to bonds through this complaining, but they get 223 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 1: to feel less guilty about sort of being annoyed with 224 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:46,119 Speaker 1: their own children because everybody else is complaining about it too. 225 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: And the whole thing about feeling less alone, I mean, 226 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 1: the wine or whoever is doing the complaining might simply 227 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:56,679 Speaker 1: feel powerless over something, whether it is the the toddler 228 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 1: who's out of control, or whether it's something else in 229 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: their life. They might just not know how to soothe 230 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 1: themselves or take control of the situation, and so by 231 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:09,679 Speaker 1: complaining to others, you're sort of seeking acknowledgement, like I'm 232 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 1: having a problem. I need you to acknowledge me and 233 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: validate me and tell me that I'm not crazy, and 234 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: then I'll feel better. Well, And in some regards to 235 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: you might not really know how to interact with this 236 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 1: particular person or group of people, because there's also the 237 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 1: aspect of ritualistic complaining, which I think is a common thing, 238 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 1: especially among co workers. You go for a happy hour 239 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 1: drinks and what are you gonna do. You're gonna say 240 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: all of the horrible, terrible, no good things about all 241 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: of your bosses, which Caroline, for the record, have just 242 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 1: never ever ever done. And there are so many stories 243 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 1: of this kind of ritualistic complaining even within couples. Yeah, 244 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 1: of of it just being a thing where you go 245 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 1: home at night, you pour your glass of wine, you 246 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 1: complain for however long, and that's that's fine to a degree, 247 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: but there needs to be boundaries. I a co worker 248 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 1: at my last job who I love her. I love her, 249 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: and she'll be the first to admit that she's a 250 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: negative nancy and complains all the time, and the job 251 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: that she was in at that company, it was really 252 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 1: really wearing her down to the point where she probably 253 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 1: should have quit years before UM because she found literally 254 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 1: zero positive stuff in it UM And so she would 255 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: talk about how she would go home every night and 256 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: her relationship with her husband was becoming toxic because she 257 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: would just go home and literally couldn't talk about anything 258 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 1: else other than how miserable she was. So finally her husband, 259 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 1: UH set up a time limit. He's like, you literally 260 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: have thirty minutes or one glass of wine, whichever comes first, 261 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 1: to complain about your day. Like let loose call people names, yell, 262 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: do whatever you want, but like at the end of 263 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: that thirty minutes, we're changing the subject. We will talk 264 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 1: about our families or the weather, or like what what 265 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 1: I did today? Maybe, but you know, like you can't 266 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:58,560 Speaker 1: spiral out of control. And the thing is that that 267 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 1: could sound patronizing in the wrong context, but my friend 268 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: greatly appreciated because she's like, it's it's just taking over 269 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 1: my life. Oh yeah, I mean that kind of accountability 270 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: and boundary setting is a super healthy sign for a relationship. 271 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 1: So what about the benefits of complaining, Because counterintuitive, science time, 272 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: it can be helpful. Yeah. Well, you know, anybody who's 273 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 1: ever called Comcast and complain and threatened to cancel their service, 274 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 1: you know what I'm talking about when you end up 275 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 1: getting either like a reduced cable bill or something for free. Um. 276 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 1: I've complained on Yelp before about a restaurant here in Atlanta, 277 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: which is such a terrible experience. And it wasn't necessarily 278 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: the restaurant's fault dot dot dot, but we had a 279 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 1: terrible waiter and there were all these other like weird 280 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: circumstances that made it a terrible experience. And I went 281 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: on yell and I complained and the manager actually wrote 282 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 1: back and said like, oh, I'm so sorry about this. 283 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 1: Stuff like everything's been taken care of. I would love 284 00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 1: to have you come back in on my dime. Of 285 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 1: course I've never on back because no thanks. But when 286 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:05,119 Speaker 1: you do it, like we talked about earlier, when you 287 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 1: do productively complain for a purpose with a goal in mind, 288 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:12,959 Speaker 1: you're more likely to have a positive outcome than if 289 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 1: you're just running your mouth. Basically. Yeah, I mean in 290 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 1: all of the benefits that we just discussing, the various 291 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 1: types of complaining make a lot of sense for how 292 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:27,880 Speaker 1: they could be healthy as well, such as relieving stress, 293 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 1: forging connections with other people we don't feel so alone 294 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 1: and despondent, and might garner you sympathy, all these kinds 295 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 1: of just like very basic human needs that complaining can fulfill. Yeah, exactly. 296 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:44,439 Speaker 1: And if it's constructive, it can be a way of 297 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:48,400 Speaker 1: communicating your pain rather than holding it in and stewing, 298 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 1: which that's not good either. That's what Christian was talking 299 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,159 Speaker 1: about earlier. Once you're stewing about something and you're not 300 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 1: talking about it, it's just gonna make things harder to overcome. 301 00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 1: You're gonna feel more stressed, more resentful, whatever, and so 302 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: Psychology professor Barbara Held was talking to web MD and 303 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:08,400 Speaker 1: she was talking about how you can find the right balance. 304 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 1: She recommended that you be direct about what's bothering you 305 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:13,919 Speaker 1: if your complaint is actually about something solvable, So if 306 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: your friend is doing something that's bothering you, or if 307 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:19,639 Speaker 1: you're if you are having a bad dining experience, be direct. 308 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: Don't try to post me, foot around and beat around 309 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:25,159 Speaker 1: the bush um. She also said to be up front 310 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,400 Speaker 1: about your need to complain. So if you really are 311 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 1: calling a friend to get a drink and it literally 312 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:31,199 Speaker 1: is because you have to blow off steam or you're 313 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,640 Speaker 1: going to explode, she says, just be upfront rather than 314 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: trying to pretend you're just having a regular conversation. Limit 315 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 1: your complaining time, and don't act as though your grapes 316 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 1: trump everyone else's. Above all, she says, select an appropriate listener. 317 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: So if you are just venting, find that friend who's 318 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 1: cool with letting you vent. If you are like having 319 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 1: a terrible experience at a restaurant, find the manager. Don't 320 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 1: just like complain to another customer or whatever. And she 321 00:18:57,080 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 1: said that the most effective complaints once you found that 322 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: appropriate person to direct your complaint too, they use facts 323 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 1: and logic, and they have a clear goal of what 324 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:07,159 Speaker 1: they want the outcome to be. So basically, when you 325 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 1: start complaining, you need to know what you want to 326 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:12,719 Speaker 1: get out of it. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, it's like beyond time. 327 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:16,400 Speaker 1: Don't flake on me. Give me more money, right exactly, Yes, 328 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 1: give me more money. I'm complaining about that to all 329 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: sorts of people. No wonder, it hasn't worked out yet well, 330 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:24,120 Speaker 1: And sometimes the whole complaint could just be listened to me, 331 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 1: Listen to me complain. You never do that. But of course, 332 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 1: sometimes complaining, especially if it's not this more productive and 333 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:37,400 Speaker 1: focused kind of complaining, can totally backfire and destroy your 334 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 1: chances of affecting any change, whether it is changing your 335 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 1: own comfort level or change of the things that are 336 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 1: bothering you to begin with. And this is something that 337 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,679 Speaker 1: frequent complainers should watch out for because a lot of times, 338 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:55,439 Speaker 1: if you are known as a negative nancy, you're viewed negatively, 339 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 1: your thought up as grumpy, argumentative, or just boring. Because yeah, 340 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,640 Speaker 1: if you are only complaining about things, that gets very boring. 341 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:03,920 Speaker 1: That's very predictable. Oh, let me guess you're not gonna 342 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:10,160 Speaker 1: like it. Surprised, Uh, Kristen drops real talk. Uh yeah. 343 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: And the whole thing is that chronic complainers get stuck 344 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:14,679 Speaker 1: in victim mode, which should be no surprise to anyone 345 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 1: who ever hangs out with a chronic complainer. This is irritating, 346 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:20,879 Speaker 1: It spreads negativity. You're bugging the universe, as dude groommate 347 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 1: would say. And these whiners are chronic complainers because they 348 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,439 Speaker 1: get trapped in this cycle, right, They feel hurt or 349 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 1: rejected or mad, and then they complain about it, and 350 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,119 Speaker 1: then they get rejected for their irritating behavior, and they 351 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:35,119 Speaker 1: feel hurt and mad about getting rejected, and then it 352 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 1: just spirals on and on and on. But the thing is, 353 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:42,120 Speaker 1: these chronic complainers might not even realize what they're doing. 354 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 1: They might just be struggling with obsessive thoughts. They're so 355 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:47,719 Speaker 1: in their own heads and can't break out of it, 356 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: so they just might not even hear themselves. And this 357 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:54,159 Speaker 1: is especially irritating if you're if you're friends with a 358 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,359 Speaker 1: chronic complainer because a lot of times these people don't 359 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,399 Speaker 1: take advice. And the thing is, there's an actual psychiatry 360 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 1: term for this. They're called help rejecting complainers. I remember 361 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: when I worked at the newspaper. A coworker of mine 362 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: was just sort of helpless in love, like he could 363 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:11,439 Speaker 1: not find a date to save his life. Or he 364 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:13,440 Speaker 1: could find a date and then he would muck it 365 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:16,440 Speaker 1: up by doing something silly, or they just didn't have chemistry. 366 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:18,920 Speaker 1: I mean, then there was nothing wrong, like whatever. Um, 367 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 1: And so he would complain and complain endlessly, bless his 368 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,959 Speaker 1: hard he's happily married now, um. And I would give 369 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,440 Speaker 1: him advice like, hey, have you thought about this? Try this, 370 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:30,399 Speaker 1: what about this? And the thing is he didn't want 371 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 1: to hear it. And so I finally like had that 372 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:36,639 Speaker 1: crystal clear clarity moment of like, oh, he just wants 373 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,639 Speaker 1: to complain. I'm not interested in this anymore, because that 374 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 1: becomes incredibly boring and energies dapping to the people around you. 375 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 1: If you literally are just complaining to hear yourself complain 376 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 1: and you're not interested in fixing the situation at all, well, 377 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 1: in one way that you might not. You might think 378 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,919 Speaker 1: you're interested in fixing the situation, but you're handicapping yourself 379 00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 1: from doing that. Is relying on humor too much to complain. 380 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: And I have been guilty of this, just being like, well, 381 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,159 Speaker 1: well if I deliver it with a laugh and a wink, 382 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 1: but it'll be fine. But research has found that humorous 383 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 1: complaining can Yeah, I mean like it engenders sympathy and 384 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 1: like people laughing and people enjoying your your clever tweets, 385 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:25,720 Speaker 1: but it backfires because people are laughing, Yeah, they're not 386 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,920 Speaker 1: really taking you seriously. Yeah, because I mean, it makes 387 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:34,199 Speaker 1: your complaints seem almost positive, and that leads to the 388 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 1: fact that you're less lucky to be taken seriously. People 389 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: are going to know that you had a negative experience, 390 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 1: but it will come off like you don't need your 391 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:45,199 Speaker 1: problem addressed. And one of the in the paper we 392 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 1: read about this, the example was this musician who had 393 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: had his guitar busted on a United Airlines flight and 394 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 1: he made a humorous video about it on YouTube to complain. 395 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 1: And the thing is it just it was shared a 396 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:01,199 Speaker 1: million times. United was fully aware of the problem that 397 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 1: they had broken his guitar, but because he presented it 398 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,120 Speaker 1: in a way of like ha ha, I'm gonna poke 399 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,920 Speaker 1: snarky fun at you and and make this video, people 400 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 1: were like, oh, well, clearly he's not too upset about it, 401 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: when really it's a great coping mechanism and people are 402 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,639 Speaker 1: more likely to approve of that type of complaining, but 403 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 1: it's still just complaining. So what about nagging though, because, 404 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 1: like you said earlier in the podcast, the ven diagram overlaps. 405 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,879 Speaker 1: But there are distinct hallmarks of nagging and this especially 406 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 1: is one that will almost inevitably backfire. Oh yeah, oh 407 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 1: my god, come to my parents house. Jeez. Uh So, 408 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:44,400 Speaker 1: nagging is the chronic ostensive complaint. You're trying to get 409 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 1: someone to do something, but they're obviously not complying, or 410 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 1: your nag does work in the short term. It does, 411 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 1: finally you browbeat someone into finally washing the dishes, but 412 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 1: it's not a long term solution because by definition, a 413 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,400 Speaker 1: nag is something that you know goes on for ever 414 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 1: and ever. And I what I thought was so interesting 415 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 1: about nagging though, and this is so true if you 416 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 1: think about it, we nagged the people were closest to 417 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: So just think about that the next time your mom 418 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 1: tells you to clean up after yourself. And there's typically 419 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 1: a good motivation. You're trying to help a person avoids 420 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,160 Speaker 1: in your mind, you're trying to help a person avoid disaster, 421 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 1: You're trying to be nurturing or be helpful. Uh, if 422 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 1: it's you and your partner, maybe you're trying to get 423 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 1: them back on some safe, happy common ground of like 424 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,480 Speaker 1: you're thinking, oh, well, when we first started living together, 425 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 1: he did the dishes all the time, and now I 426 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:36,480 Speaker 1: can barely get him to pick up his shoes off 427 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 1: the floor. So it's just like, I just want us 428 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,439 Speaker 1: to be happy again, Please do this thing. Um Or 429 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 1: maybe if you're a parent, you're just trying to get 430 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:48,159 Speaker 1: your kids to be their best. But the downside of 431 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,000 Speaker 1: all that, no matter how good your intentions are, is 432 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: that everyone hates nagging. This should come as no surprise. 433 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:57,639 Speaker 1: The person who is nagged ends up feeling guilty because 434 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:01,359 Speaker 1: chances are they know they should be doing it. Chances 435 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,680 Speaker 1: are my father knows he should be putting away all 436 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,360 Speaker 1: of the mail off the counter and just doesn't do it. 437 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 1: They end up feeling judged out of control, so like, 438 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,120 Speaker 1: I already know I need to put away all the mail, 439 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,440 Speaker 1: but I just I feel like it's too much to do, 440 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,119 Speaker 1: And they end up feeling unappreciated, like they're not trusted 441 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,439 Speaker 1: or good enough or smart enough to actually do something 442 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,200 Speaker 1: on their own. Well, then the person doing the nagging 443 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: just feels resentful and unheard. So it's lose lose for everybody. 444 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 1: And if we look at it on a more biological level, 445 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:36,240 Speaker 1: nagging impacts of people around us negatively as well because 446 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 1: it sets off fight or flight responses, which then tends 447 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: to result in a demand withdraw pattern within the relationship. Yeah. 448 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 1: So like if you imagine if you go back to 449 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 1: the cave mom and the cave baby in the cave 450 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 1: grocery store. So if you imagine though, that the mom 451 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 1: the cave mom is nagging at the cave baby, um, 452 00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 1: that is going to set off a fight or flight 453 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 1: response because they're like nagging about how we've got to 454 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 1: get away from the saber tooth tiger. And so it's 455 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 1: a good idea for that fight or flight to kick in. 456 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 1: But if you're just like a couple sitting around on 457 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 1: a Tuesday night and you start in about the dishes, 458 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,879 Speaker 1: if your partner's fight or flight kicks in, that's really 459 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:21,199 Speaker 1: not healthy because then your partner obviously doesn't want to 460 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,479 Speaker 1: physically fight you because you are not a saber tooth tiger. 461 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 1: So that a lot of times can then spark the 462 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 1: demand and withdraw your partner will choose to withdraw instead 463 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 1: of engaging, and they're all sorts of negative mental and 464 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 1: emotional effects of this will have in addition to the 465 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 1: ones that we've already outlined, because, for instance, excessive complaining 466 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 1: is linked with depression and anxiety. One Stanford study found 467 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,720 Speaker 1: that just a half hour of complaining a day does 468 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 1: not keep the doctor away like an apple, which also 469 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 1: doesn't keep the doctor away, but just a half hour 470 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: of complaining will release stress hormones that harm our neural 471 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 1: connections in the brain's problem solving areas. And I, for one, 472 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 1: can attest to the feeling of those stress hormones being released. 473 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: I mean, you can physically feel what happens if you're 474 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: complaining to a toxic extent. Yeah, exactly, And and I 475 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,480 Speaker 1: you know, just here's Caroline go and proven research again. 476 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 1: But you know, do you ever feel like you're in 477 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,880 Speaker 1: the thick of a complaint and you literally are so 478 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 1: wrapped up in it that you can't see a way 479 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:30,879 Speaker 1: out of the problem. And the person you're talking to 480 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 1: might be like, like like with my coworker who was 481 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,199 Speaker 1: complaining about his dating woes, and I was like, well, 482 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,199 Speaker 1: it's obvious that you could just try this, this or 483 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 1: this that doesn't seem that complicated, but he's so wrapped 484 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,440 Speaker 1: up in it that he lost sight of there even 485 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:48,159 Speaker 1: being a problem solving opportunity. Well, and wouldn't that fuel 486 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 1: this whole cycle of helplessness where you wallow, you feel powerless, 487 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:58,159 Speaker 1: nothing will help you, And so I mean, it only 488 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 1: disengages you further for a solution, and then when you're 489 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:07,159 Speaker 1: inevitably disappointed yet again, it starts a new Yeah. And 490 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,919 Speaker 1: as my therapist frequently says, energy flows where attention goes, 491 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: and so Will Bowen, who's an author of The Complaint 492 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,120 Speaker 1: Free World, says that when we complain, we are using 493 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,160 Speaker 1: our words to focus on things that are not as 494 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,199 Speaker 1: we would like. Our thoughts create our lives, and our 495 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 1: words indicate what we're thinking. It's vital that we control 496 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,640 Speaker 1: our minds in order to recreate our lives. So changing 497 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,960 Speaker 1: your focus, if you're focusing literally on nothing but the negative, 498 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,639 Speaker 1: it's just going to get you back in that cycle 499 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 1: of helplessness, that wallowing. Well, one focus of this nagging issue, 500 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 1: especially in that word nagging, is gender. So it should 501 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 1: come as no surprise to you, honestly, if you if 502 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 1: you think about it when I say that men and 503 00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 1: women complain equally, like, that's not surprising, But women are 504 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: naggs Caroline, the nagging wife, right, that is the stereotype. 505 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 1: And so Christen and I wanted to look into why, 506 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 1: if men and women statistically complain just as much as 507 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 1: each other, why do we have this image of women 508 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 1: being the complainers and men being like the stoic, silent type. Well, 509 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 1: it turns out, according to research that yes, of course 510 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 1: we all complain about the same amount, but we complain 511 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 1: slightly differently. And then, of course, as we'll get into 512 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: the way that we perceive each other's complaints colors the 513 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 1: whole situation. So there was a two thousand six study 514 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 1: in Women and Language that found women were more likely 515 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 1: than men to use complaints as an indirect request for action, 516 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:42,640 Speaker 1: So like, man, I sure wish the sinc we're clear, 517 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 1: or god, this floor really is a mess. Passive aggression 518 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,840 Speaker 1: in other words, yeah, while men in this study were 519 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 1: more likely to use complaints to excuse behavior or to 520 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:58,680 Speaker 1: make themselves seem superior. So complaining about a situation, well, oh, 521 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 1: if he's complaining about it, then it's clear that he 522 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 1: would take action. To fix it or whatever, or that 523 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 1: superiority distancing yourself motivation that we talked about at the 524 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 1: top of the podcast. But the thing is our complaining 525 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 1: can even depend on the audience and whether we want 526 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 1: to maintain our image and reputation. So this is coming 527 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 1: out of a study from fourteen in the Journal of 528 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:24,040 Speaker 1: Consumer Research, which surveyed men and women about a hypothetical 529 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: terrible restaurant experience. It was Caroline at that awful Atlanta restaurant, 530 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 1: as she later yelped um, and the researchers then asked 531 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 1: them what they would do if they ran into an 532 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: acquaintance and a really good friend after having this horrible 533 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 1: dining experience, and there were some gender differences, so women 534 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 1: who cared more about looking good in the other person's 535 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 1: eyes were less likely to complain to the acquaintance, not surprisingly, 536 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 1: but they still told their bff all about it. Meanwhile, 537 00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 1: for dudes, didn't matter the relationship, whether it was an 538 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 1: acquaintance or a best friend. If they cared a lot 539 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 1: about their reputation or image, they were just going to 540 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 1: keep quiet to both parties, but if not, they complained 541 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 1: to both people. So researchers say that men's communication goals 542 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 1: tend to revolve more around reputation, achievement, and self because hey, 543 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 1: they don't want to look bad or like they made 544 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,160 Speaker 1: a bad decision. Hey, you should have known not to 545 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 1: have gone to that horrible restaurant, whereas women's complaint motivations 546 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,400 Speaker 1: revolve more around care and protecting others. So it's like 547 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 1: your best friend being like, hey, you can't go down 548 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 1: to that all you can eat buffet because they run 549 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 1: on a pizza too quick. Don't go. Yeah, And of course, 550 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,479 Speaker 1: you know, there are issues that we could bring up 551 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 1: of like, oh, is this just falling along those weird 552 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 1: stereotypical lines of women as nurturer and man as stoic 553 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:54,320 Speaker 1: like hunter gatherer or whatever. And yes, I'm sure if 554 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 1: we had the time we could get more deeply into that. 555 00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:01,240 Speaker 1: But for these particular researchers, they did find those correlations. 556 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:05,400 Speaker 1: And we do tend to complain about different things, at 557 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 1: least according to a Staples Advantage survey. How about that, Yes, 558 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 1: I am talking about Staples, the office supply store. Yeah. 559 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: So in this very specific example from the Staples Advantage survey, 560 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,120 Speaker 1: they found it at work, women are more likely than 561 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 1: men are to complain about working extra hours and feeling 562 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:24,960 Speaker 1: burned out. They found that men were more likely to 563 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 1: basically put up and shut up and just deal with it. 564 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 1: And in another incredibly specific study coming out of the 565 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 1: Journal of Gerontological Social Work, they looked at nursing homes 566 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,479 Speaker 1: and what people were complaining about. In nursing homes. They 567 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 1: found that male residents actually lodged more complaints than women, 568 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 1: which made me think back to our earlier conversation and like, oh, 569 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: are they more confident? Why are they complaining more than women? 570 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 1: Maybe they're just crankier about the pudding running low. Well, 571 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 1: if the pudding is technical pudding, then yeah. They found 572 00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:00,600 Speaker 1: that male residents complain more about technical, imper personal and 573 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:05,840 Speaker 1: legal issues going on at the nursing home, whereas female 574 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:09,960 Speaker 1: residents were complaining more about personal care and socio emotional 575 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 1: environmental issues like quality of life. This still sounds like 576 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 1: it breaks right down gender stereotype exactly. Ladies always be 577 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 1: so emotional, that care and of about that pin so much. Uh. 578 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 1: But here's the thing. We also clearly tend to perceive 579 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 1: complaining both ours and other people's complaining differently. Yeah, exactly. 580 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 1: And I was wondering if that was the reasoning behind 581 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 1: why we say that women are the ones who nag 582 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 1: versus men, and yeah, kind of, and all of the 583 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,400 Speaker 1: reading we did it seemed like it's all in the 584 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:49,440 Speaker 1: perception of who's talking and how we think about their 585 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 1: language or their complaint or their requests, sort of like 586 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,960 Speaker 1: it's all in the ear of the beholder. So what 587 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 1: is nagging? Right, We've talked about nagging. It's making multiple 588 00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 1: requests for an action, and it can come from a 589 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:05,720 Speaker 1: place of asking for something indirectly, which is more of 590 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 1: a hallmark of stereotypical women's communication. But the whole thing 591 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,600 Speaker 1: is that this indirect communication can also lead to the 592 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:16,719 Speaker 1: assumption that it's not urgent. If I'm just like man, 593 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:20,320 Speaker 1: I'd love it, like, you know, if the floor were swept. 594 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 1: I'm totally not using an example from a conversation my 595 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,160 Speaker 1: boyfriend and I had last night. There's just gonna be 596 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:27,600 Speaker 1: this assumption that it doesn't need to be taken care 597 00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:31,480 Speaker 1: of right away, which then might lead hypothetical Caroline to 598 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:35,200 Speaker 1: feel ignored and unheard. That's only going to trigger me 599 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 1: complaining about it more, and then I'm going to end 600 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:42,680 Speaker 1: up being perceived as the nagging woman. But this is 601 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 1: still just blaming the nagging woman for how she communicates. 602 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 1: The onus is still on you, right, It's not focused 603 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,719 Speaker 1: on in this situation. When you're just calling someone a 604 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 1: nag um, there's no focus on actually fixing the situation 605 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,840 Speaker 1: or the communication on either person's parts. And this is 606 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:05,240 Speaker 1: something that Susan crass Whipborne wrote about in Psychology Today. 607 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:09,200 Speaker 1: She said that we frame women's indirect requests differently than 608 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 1: we do when it comes to men. She says, by 609 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,800 Speaker 1: using the derogatory term nag, a man trivializes the woman's 610 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,759 Speaker 1: request and at the same time puts her in her place. 611 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 1: In other words, it's a double edged power play. It 612 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,320 Speaker 1: saves the man actually having to do anything in response 613 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:27,600 Speaker 1: to her request until he's good and ready, if at all. 614 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:30,880 Speaker 1: By resisting her efforts to mold him to her will, 615 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 1: the man can look as if he's in control when 616 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,880 Speaker 1: he agrees to the request, which everybody in the situation 617 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:37,600 Speaker 1: just sounds like the worst. I hate it, I don't 618 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:39,879 Speaker 1: want to be in it. Yeah, And I think it's 619 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:43,239 Speaker 1: also worth remembering, as we often have to do with 620 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:47,919 Speaker 1: so many of these relationship psychology topics is that this 621 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:52,799 Speaker 1: is working within a very heteronormative framework and that obviously 622 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:58,879 Speaker 1: nagging patterns can take place within any relationship. And it's 623 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,640 Speaker 1: how well to remember that, I think across the board, 624 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,440 Speaker 1: regardless of the gender of the person you're talking about, 625 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:09,719 Speaker 1: nagging is a trivializing or marginalizing kind of term. Now, 626 00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:13,600 Speaker 1: sometimes yes, I mean the nagging pattern is unproductive and unhelpful, 627 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,040 Speaker 1: and it is a nag. But if you write someone 628 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 1: off as just being a nagg, and it's a person 629 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,960 Speaker 1: you're in a relationship with, then you might need to 630 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,520 Speaker 1: step back and check your own communication skills and what 631 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,839 Speaker 1: you're doing or not doing that might be contributing to it. 632 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:33,719 Speaker 1: But when we look at that very female gendered nag, 633 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:38,680 Speaker 1: it has a really scary implications, as noted by Jane 634 00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:42,760 Speaker 1: Mockton Smith in her book Murder, Gender in the Media, 635 00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,440 Speaker 1: which is just a perfect page turner for the holiday 636 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:48,520 Speaker 1: season as it is right now. In the recording this 637 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 1: podcast um she cites research of Susan Lees who looked 638 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 1: at a sample of cases in which quote female provocation 639 00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:00,840 Speaker 1: in the form of nagging was used as a nationalization 640 00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:06,160 Speaker 1: for homicide in court because essentially it was the whole 641 00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:09,320 Speaker 1: thing of like, well, the husband killed his wife because 642 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,120 Speaker 1: she was such a nag. She never she she provoked 643 00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:16,000 Speaker 1: him by nagging. Yeah, it's seen as a particularly female 644 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:20,120 Speaker 1: deviant behavior that can drive men in these cases in 645 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:23,960 Speaker 1: the court opinions to try to correct women. And there 646 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,880 Speaker 1: was one case, one example she gave where they the 647 00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:31,000 Speaker 1: judge was essentially saying like, listen, I know that your 648 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 1: wife was clearly an unpleasant person. She was clearly a nag, 649 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:36,920 Speaker 1: as you said. But also you're still going to jail 650 00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:40,240 Speaker 1: because you killed her. But the fact that it's even 651 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 1: like it holds water at all is so terrifying because 652 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:50,200 Speaker 1: everybody complains. Everybody complains, Um, we all have communication difficulties 653 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,880 Speaker 1: sometimes and misunderstanding not mean definitely not definitely not Christian, 654 00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:57,400 Speaker 1: but like especially for feeling powerless or helpless in a situation. 655 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,680 Speaker 1: Uh So that leads us to communicate into directly the 656 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:04,440 Speaker 1: fact that that coming from women is so dismissed as 657 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:06,920 Speaker 1: nagging and used as an excuse of like, well, of 658 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:09,520 Speaker 1: course you should be annoyed. You could kill her, that's fine, 659 00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:12,279 Speaker 1: just kill her, kill the nag. Well I mean that 660 00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:14,880 Speaker 1: that's horrifying. Well, and I mean, And I do wonder 661 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:21,400 Speaker 1: how often that comes up just in domestic abuse cases especially, 662 00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 1: I mean that word in particular. I bet if you 663 00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:25,239 Speaker 1: start going through case files it comes up over and 664 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,120 Speaker 1: over and yeah, well it's such a chilling The word 665 00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:30,920 Speaker 1: is so chilling, and it's such a hurdle to appropriate 666 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:35,120 Speaker 1: communication and healthy relationships because, like we were saying, if 667 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,920 Speaker 1: you're just dismissing someone as a nag, if you are nagging, 668 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,439 Speaker 1: or if you're dismissing someone as a nag, then both 669 00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,000 Speaker 1: of you need to examine the way that you communicate 670 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,879 Speaker 1: and what you're trying to accomplish. And a more productive 671 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:51,040 Speaker 1: way to communicate it would be a little something called 672 00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:56,279 Speaker 1: carefrontation love it. Yes, that is a play on confrontation. 673 00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:59,720 Speaker 1: And this is something Lisa Belkin was writing all about 674 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:04,600 Speaker 1: in one of Caroline's phaves Oh magazine, Oh that's right. Yeah. 675 00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:08,920 Speaker 1: She was citing research from psychologists Harold A. Straightener, basically saying, 676 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:15,160 Speaker 1: instead of indirectly communicating your annoyance or your problem or 677 00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:21,240 Speaker 1: your question, to someone, uh, try employing empathy. Try being like, hey, 678 00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:23,879 Speaker 1: I know that this X y Z thing is very 679 00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:26,319 Speaker 1: hard for you, and I really feel like we could 680 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:30,040 Speaker 1: reach some common ground. Let's work together. For instance, my 681 00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:34,440 Speaker 1: mother for years has complained to my father about the 682 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:36,560 Speaker 1: state of the basement at the house because my dad 683 00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:40,160 Speaker 1: is a hoarder, true story, and the basement is crazy. 684 00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:44,520 Speaker 1: It's totally insane, and so for years my mother has 685 00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,400 Speaker 1: been sort of brating him about it, and finally she 686 00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:51,319 Speaker 1: broke through to him by employing a different tactic, because 687 00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:55,600 Speaker 1: she finally said, Hey, it's kind of crazy down there, 688 00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:57,840 Speaker 1: and I know that you probably go down there and 689 00:39:57,840 --> 00:39:59,960 Speaker 1: don't even like to spend time down there because it's 690 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,960 Speaker 1: so overwhelming. And I'm sure the idea of even starting 691 00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:06,440 Speaker 1: to clean seems overwhelming because where would you even start. 692 00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:09,479 Speaker 1: And so I just want to let you know I'm here, 693 00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:11,799 Speaker 1: like whenever you want to tackle this, like, let's do 694 00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:14,839 Speaker 1: it together. And I'd like to say that they rode 695 00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:18,480 Speaker 1: off into the clean basement sunset, that they did not um. 696 00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:22,560 Speaker 1: But that's the whole idea behind care frontation, that you're 697 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:26,120 Speaker 1: removing the shaming and blaming from your complaint and employing 698 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:30,080 Speaker 1: empathy instead. And I guess, regardless of the side of 699 00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:33,680 Speaker 1: the nagging equation you might be on, awareness is important. 700 00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,279 Speaker 1: Paying attention to what's coming out of your mouth and 701 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:39,919 Speaker 1: how people react to you approa trip. If you're someone 702 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,080 Speaker 1: like me who is a granular complainer as the needs 703 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:45,800 Speaker 1: to get down to the granular details, and you notice 704 00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:48,880 Speaker 1: the person you're talking to his eyes start to glaze 705 00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:54,920 Speaker 1: over on like minute, you might be over the line. 706 00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:59,920 Speaker 1: You might be going into unnecessary detail that that guy 707 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,560 Speaker 1: of awareness can be really helpful. I've been there. Yeah, 708 00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:08,239 Speaker 1: they've been there in front of me. Five No, I've 709 00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:12,279 Speaker 1: definitely been been in that that chair of like I 710 00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:14,680 Speaker 1: just have to analyze everything about why this is the worst. 711 00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:16,680 Speaker 1: And the thing is if you get together with someone, 712 00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:19,000 Speaker 1: like if you and I are complaining about something a 713 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,000 Speaker 1: situation that we're in together, or like when I was 714 00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,399 Speaker 1: with living with dude roommate and we were working together 715 00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:25,440 Speaker 1: at the same time at my old company, and we 716 00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:29,040 Speaker 1: would be complaining about a coworker or a policy or 717 00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:32,200 Speaker 1: like the day that was so bad. Like there's no 718 00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:34,920 Speaker 1: breaks on the situation because you're both in it and 719 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:38,360 Speaker 1: you're both just it's so satisfying to root out every 720 00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:40,880 Speaker 1: granular detail of how annoying that person was or that 721 00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:44,120 Speaker 1: event was. Um. But if you are literally just telling 722 00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,200 Speaker 1: a friend who's outside of the situation. I was yelled 723 00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:52,120 Speaker 1: at and I appreciated it. My friend Miranda, Um this 724 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:54,439 Speaker 1: was years ago, and I worked at the newspaper and 725 00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:56,600 Speaker 1: we would go out and we would complain about working 726 00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,440 Speaker 1: at the newspaper after work, and finally Miranda looked at 727 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:04,680 Speaker 1: all of specifically me, and was like, enough enough enough. 728 00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:06,640 Speaker 1: You're either going to quit your job or you're gonna 729 00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:08,800 Speaker 1: figure out how to deal with it. But I cannot 730 00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:14,239 Speaker 1: listen to this anymore. So anyhow, that was appreciated. Uh. 731 00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,840 Speaker 1: And I think what uh if in in her yelling 732 00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:21,160 Speaker 1: with some love uh And I think what she would 733 00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:25,520 Speaker 1: have said also would be that we should be mindful 734 00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:29,040 Speaker 1: and intentional. We talked about this with those confident complainers earlier. 735 00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,120 Speaker 1: It's really about recognizing that it's up to you to 736 00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:35,480 Speaker 1: control your own behavior and your own perception of events 737 00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:39,360 Speaker 1: in the world around you. You can choose to engage 738 00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:42,200 Speaker 1: in activities that make you feel good, that are rewarding. 739 00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:45,879 Speaker 1: You can choose to say, hey, I get to pick 740 00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:48,759 Speaker 1: my kids up from carpool today, not I have to 741 00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,600 Speaker 1: pick my kids up from carpool. I hate that I 742 00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:54,720 Speaker 1: have to get my children back, or in minding Caroline's cases, 743 00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:56,960 Speaker 1: we'd be like, why are we picking up kids from carpool? 744 00:42:57,080 --> 00:42:59,319 Speaker 1: We don't have children? What is happening? And get to 745 00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:01,799 Speaker 1: pick up chill Aldren. This is weird. I'm not complaining, 746 00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:06,040 Speaker 1: I'm just scared. But if you're on the receiving end 747 00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:09,840 Speaker 1: of complaints, if you are Miranda, if you're the Miranda 748 00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,960 Speaker 1: of the group sex in the city terms, or if 749 00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:16,200 Speaker 1: it is your partner who's complaining. My my fiance is 750 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:22,880 Speaker 1: just endlessly patient with my granular complaining. There are things 751 00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:28,320 Speaker 1: that you can do that can help direct more productive complaints, 752 00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:33,120 Speaker 1: such as expressing sympathy and also pointing out patterns I 753 00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:37,560 Speaker 1: as a complainer, yes, have found it very helpful when 754 00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:41,600 Speaker 1: the complainee has been able to say, hey, you know 755 00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:44,840 Speaker 1: what you were talking about this X time ago, or 756 00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:47,520 Speaker 1: you've been saying this. I've heard you say this, not 757 00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:50,640 Speaker 1: a judgmental way, but just say this sounds very familiar. 758 00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:53,440 Speaker 1: I've heard you say this many times. Because I think 759 00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:55,200 Speaker 1: when we're complaining, when we get so caught up in it, 760 00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:57,200 Speaker 1: we don't even realize, oh, we're talking about the same 761 00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,080 Speaker 1: thing over and over and over again, which is a 762 00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:04,319 Speaker 1: massive red that we need to make some changes. Yeah, 763 00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:06,400 Speaker 1: there was a Wall Street Journal article that even talked 764 00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:10,360 Speaker 1: about how there are therapists who now employ this tactic 765 00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:14,239 Speaker 1: of basically telling you to get over it, which can 766 00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:17,000 Speaker 1: be horrifying if it's like an actual deep rooted problem 767 00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:19,480 Speaker 1: that you need to fix. But it's not so much like, hey, 768 00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:21,920 Speaker 1: let's not talk about the abuse you suffered as a child, 769 00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:25,879 Speaker 1: stop being ridiculous. It's more like when you literally can't 770 00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:28,319 Speaker 1: stop talking about the same thing, and you talk about 771 00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:30,640 Speaker 1: the same thing over and over and over again, that 772 00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:33,120 Speaker 1: more and more people are going to therapy requesting this 773 00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:35,520 Speaker 1: sort of tough love approach of your therapist, being like 774 00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:38,720 Speaker 1: you've literally talked about going to the grocery store every 775 00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:40,680 Speaker 1: single time you've come to see me. Enough about it, 776 00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:42,800 Speaker 1: all right, the savor tooth tiger, it does not exist. 777 00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:47,040 Speaker 1: And that reading about that kind of therapy, Oh, it 778 00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:49,719 Speaker 1: made me so nervous. I couldn't imagine that I could. 779 00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:53,080 Speaker 1: I don't know. It's not for me. No, I don't 780 00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:54,840 Speaker 1: think it's for me either. I think what is for 781 00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:57,480 Speaker 1: me is what you were saying in terms of helpfully 782 00:44:57,520 --> 00:44:59,960 Speaker 1: pointing out like I've heard you talk about this one 783 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,839 Speaker 1: on saying a lot, and so like, what's really going on? 784 00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:08,400 Speaker 1: What's behind that? Well? An accountability is important because while 785 00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:12,600 Speaker 1: not being allowed to complain whatsoever does sound very harsh 786 00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:17,280 Speaker 1: to my ears, accountability is crucial because it's like, Okay, 787 00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:20,040 Speaker 1: if you're coming to me complaining about the exact same 788 00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:22,480 Speaker 1: thing over and over and over again, what are you 789 00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:24,880 Speaker 1: going to do about that? And you need to be able, 790 00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:27,799 Speaker 1: especially if you are the complainer. You need to be 791 00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:32,239 Speaker 1: able to accept that accountability. Yeah, And I mean once 792 00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:37,520 Speaker 1: you do it, it does instill a sense of control. Finally, 793 00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:40,640 Speaker 1: you feel less powerless when you finally sit down and say, Okay, 794 00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:43,359 Speaker 1: I'm going to tackle this, I'm going to handle this 795 00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:47,200 Speaker 1: um because so much of that chronic complaining, like we 796 00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:50,520 Speaker 1: talked about, comes from that sense of powerlessness. I literally 797 00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:53,680 Speaker 1: don't know what to do except complain about it. And 798 00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:55,799 Speaker 1: maybe if your friend is complaining to you can help 799 00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:58,280 Speaker 1: them think of alternatives, like have you thought about keeping 800 00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:00,239 Speaker 1: a journal and writing the stuff down? If you thought 801 00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:03,040 Speaker 1: about maybe going for a run every day to help 802 00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:07,319 Speaker 1: alleviate that stress. And also, like my friend's husband did 803 00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:10,640 Speaker 1: set a time limit, be like, hey, I hear that 804 00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:13,040 Speaker 1: you're going down this road and I hate it for you, 805 00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:15,319 Speaker 1: and it sounds so awful what you're going through. But 806 00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:19,240 Speaker 1: like you get, you get fifteen minutes, which also sounds 807 00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,560 Speaker 1: really productive. I mean I would take fifteen minutes or 808 00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:26,680 Speaker 1: a glass of wine. Hello, just like free complaint zone. 809 00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:30,040 Speaker 1: I might have to pass that along to my fiance. Yea, 810 00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:34,520 Speaker 1: set the timer, set your little kitchen timer. But you 811 00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:38,839 Speaker 1: can also give positive reinforcement and help redirect the conversation 812 00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:42,560 Speaker 1: as the friend. You know, encourage your friend to tell me, 813 00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:44,600 Speaker 1: tell me what it is you love about your mother, 814 00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:47,320 Speaker 1: or about your job, or about I was going to 815 00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:51,120 Speaker 1: say traffic, but well you could even say, well, hey, 816 00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:53,120 Speaker 1: I get to listen to podcasts. I was about to 817 00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:56,200 Speaker 1: say the same thing. That's a positive thing about traffic. Yeah, 818 00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:58,560 Speaker 1: when I over the holidays, all the driving that I 819 00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:01,239 Speaker 1: have to do back and forth, do parents house I 820 00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:04,440 Speaker 1: catch up on the pods or should I say my casts? 821 00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:06,600 Speaker 1: I don't know what the kids call it these days, 822 00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:09,400 Speaker 1: we make them, we should know, but we don't. We 823 00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:13,440 Speaker 1: don't really don't help us listen to hers. But seriously, 824 00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:16,680 Speaker 1: being mindful like this is so hard, Caroline and I 825 00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:20,720 Speaker 1: know this well. It is a daily and sometimes minute 826 00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:24,279 Speaker 1: by minute practice. So listeners were really curious to hear 827 00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:28,839 Speaker 1: your insights, tips and experiences on this. What do you 828 00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:31,399 Speaker 1: do to manage you're complaining or what do you do 829 00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:36,480 Speaker 1: to manage your partner or friends complaining? Mom? Stuff at 830 00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:38,800 Speaker 1: house Stuff works dot com is where you can send 831 00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:41,799 Speaker 1: your emails, and we've got a couple of those who 832 00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:50,399 Speaker 1: share with you right now. So I have a letter 833 00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:53,640 Speaker 1: here from c and I'm I'm assuming she might just 834 00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:58,920 Speaker 1: want to remain seat because she's writing about our Crisco 835 00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:02,960 Speaker 1: episode see Rights. And by the way, this sea is 836 00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:07,680 Speaker 1: neither see nor Sea of Christen and Caroline Differency writing 837 00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:11,000 Speaker 1: about loub It's fine Differency Rights. I'm still listening to 838 00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:13,400 Speaker 1: the latest podcast about lub, but had to jump right 839 00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:15,880 Speaker 1: on my email with a story I thought you'd find funny. 840 00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:18,240 Speaker 1: I'm American but live in Northern Europe, and a couple 841 00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:20,399 Speaker 1: of years ago, an American friend and I were trying 842 00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:25,280 Speaker 1: to make old fashioned, homemade American biscuits from her grandmother's recipe. 843 00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:28,319 Speaker 1: It's often difficult to find products we know well here, 844 00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:32,399 Speaker 1: like Libby's pumpkin pie, Graham crackers, or chocolate chips. These 845 00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:36,080 Speaker 1: biscuits called for Crisco, which is so impossible to find here. 846 00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:38,520 Speaker 1: My friend had her family sent her a care package 847 00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:41,600 Speaker 1: full of Crisco sticks. A few months ago, I happen 848 00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:44,040 Speaker 1: to be searching for some eco friendly lube on an 849 00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:48,800 Speaker 1: adult website locally and was absolutely shocked to find those 850 00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:53,960 Speaker 1: big tubs of Chrisco advertised as lube. Checking a few 851 00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:58,080 Speaker 1: other local places confirmed Chrisco is available, but only insect 852 00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:01,880 Speaker 1: shops in Northern Europe. And they don't even change the packaging. 853 00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:08,359 Speaker 1: It's the blue can with the picture of pie on it. Oh. 854 00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:10,759 Speaker 1: I love that so much. I just thought it was 855 00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:13,120 Speaker 1: funny that you mentioned this. It was a huge culture 856 00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:14,839 Speaker 1: shock to me, and I thought you might like to 857 00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:18,239 Speaker 1: note the practice is apparently alive and well here in 858 00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:20,719 Speaker 1: Northern Europe. Keep up the great work you make us 859 00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:24,920 Speaker 1: all more informed and entertained about our world. Oh my goodness, DIFFERENCYE, 860 00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:28,319 Speaker 1: this is just a fantastic story. Thank you so much 861 00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:31,399 Speaker 1: for sharing. I have a letter here from Samantha about 862 00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:35,040 Speaker 1: her hashtag blessed episode, which she said was really on point. 863 00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:38,440 Speaker 1: So Samantha writes, I've seen a lot of my Facebook 864 00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:41,400 Speaker 1: friends posting about how hashtag blessed they are to have 865 00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:44,399 Speaker 1: great office views of Manhattan, or the first red cup 866 00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:47,799 Speaker 1: Starbucks of the season, or whatever. But I'm emailing because 867 00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:49,880 Speaker 1: I want to tell you about a more bizarre, humble 868 00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:52,600 Speaker 1: brag I've encountered on the Internet. After the birth of 869 00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:54,640 Speaker 1: my daughter, I spent way too much time on the 870 00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:57,880 Speaker 1: Baby Center birthboards. If you don't know, the birthboards are 871 00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:00,200 Speaker 1: for people who are having or have had babe these 872 00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:03,000 Speaker 1: in the same month or year. Once our babies were 873 00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:05,640 Speaker 1: all born, the boards started to fill with posts about 874 00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:07,759 Speaker 1: how these new moms haven't brushed their hair, how to 875 00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:10,400 Speaker 1: shower in days, or slept more than an hour, but 876 00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:13,920 Speaker 1: we're loving every minute of it. It was very strange 877 00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:16,960 Speaker 1: to me, like a which mom can sacrifice herself the 878 00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:20,120 Speaker 1: most and therefore be the best mother competition. Very few 879 00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:23,120 Speaker 1: people bragged or even just talked about doing laundry or dishes, 880 00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:25,040 Speaker 1: or god forbid, leaving the baby for more than five 881 00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:27,640 Speaker 1: minutes to do just about anything other than stare at 882 00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:30,600 Speaker 1: the baby. I'm sure there's a class component to this. 883 00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:33,320 Speaker 1: I don't think many single moms are working class moms 884 00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:35,799 Speaker 1: feel very hashtag blessed if they have to go back 885 00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:39,000 Speaker 1: to work only a few weeks after postpartum or struggling 886 00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:42,200 Speaker 1: on one income. Most people don't have the resources to 887 00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:44,040 Speaker 1: be able to take the time to just lie around 888 00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:46,759 Speaker 1: in breastfeed all day. It all reminds me of something 889 00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:49,480 Speaker 1: I've read, I think in Jessica Valenti's Why Have Kids, 890 00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:52,880 Speaker 1: about how motivated and intelligent women who leave or forced 891 00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:55,600 Speaker 1: out of the workforce when they have kids throw themselves 892 00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:58,759 Speaker 1: entirely into motherhood. I guess if you can't humble brag 893 00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:01,200 Speaker 1: about your promotion, you can do it about your dedication 894 00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:05,319 Speaker 1: to wearing spit up covered sweats. Anyway, she says, keep 895 00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:07,600 Speaker 1: up the good work. I love having a weekly dose 896 00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:10,920 Speaker 1: of feminism during my commute. Well, thank you, Samantha, and 897 00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:13,919 Speaker 1: thanks to everybody who's written into us complaints and all 898 00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:16,400 Speaker 1: bomb stuff at how stuff works dot com is our 899 00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:18,680 Speaker 1: email address and for a links to all of our 900 00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:21,800 Speaker 1: social media as well as all of our blogs, videos, 901 00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:25,879 Speaker 1: and podcasts, including our sources that you can learn more 902 00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:29,359 Speaker 1: about complaining. Head on over to stuff Mom Never Told 903 00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:35,480 Speaker 1: You dot com for more on this and thousands of 904 00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:45,520 Speaker 1: other topics. Is it how stuff works dot com