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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcomes True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 3: We are on iHeartRadio and we are talking true crime

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Speaker 3: all the time. It's Wednesday, March eleventh, and we have

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Speaker 3: a stacked night of headlines. Oh Man, a senior prank

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Speaker 3: by students in Georgia turns into a fatal tragedy.

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Speaker 2: We'll be talking about that.

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Speaker 3: Also opening statements in the case of a nurse. She's

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Speaker 3: alleged to have potentially murdered her friend with insulin to

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Speaker 3: benefit from her friend's life insurance, So we'll be digging

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Speaker 3: into that one as well. And we're going to be

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Speaker 3: unpacking the Lucy let Be trial. There's a lot of

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Speaker 3: controversy surrounding it. And as a heads up, this case

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Speaker 3: that Amanda Knox is covering in the most skillful way

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Speaker 3: that only she can, and that's in her currently airing podcast,

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Speaker 3: Doubt the Lucy let Be Trial.

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Speaker 2: And do not forget.

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Speaker 3: Amanda Knox will be joining us tomorrow evening, so we're

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Speaker 3: very excited.

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Speaker 4: She's such an interesting person to talk to. Last time

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Speaker 4: she was here, I was literally I felt like a

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Speaker 4: deer in headlights because I was so interested in every

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Speaker 4: word that was coming out of her mind. She was

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Speaker 4: so eloquently spoken, she articulated everything so well.

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Speaker 2: Just a really good communicator. I'm really excited to see

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Speaker 2: her tomorrow. No, I was all inspired and revved up. Yes,

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Speaker 2: I really was really good.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and listen later, we're also going to be talking

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Speaker 3: about a former NFL player. He's accused of asking chat

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Speaker 3: gpt on how to handle the crime scene of his

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Speaker 3: dead girlfriend.

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Speaker 2: It's a lesson in watch which you type.

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Speaker 3: And thankfully here to break down these cases is our

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Speaker 3: very very favorite veteran trial attorney and Pennsylvania prosecutor, Jared Farentino.

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Speaker 3: Welcome Jared, Hello, good evening, Derek good, great to see you.

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Speaker 3: And I'm Courtney Armstrong. I'm here with body movin. Stephanie

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Speaker 3: Lydecker is out for the evening, but Taha hous is

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Speaker 3: here as our Sam and Adam in the control room.

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Speaker 3: So we got it all in hand. What do you

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Speaker 3: think should we start off with a talk back?

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Speaker 4: Starting off Strong, let's do it.

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Speaker 5: I want to tave a message about this the teacher

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Speaker 5: in I think it's Georgia, that prank that went wrong,

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Speaker 5: and it's just such a tragic accident. And I know,

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Speaker 5: actually I think the driver was charged, and I know

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Speaker 5: that the family is asking that the police dropped the charges,

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Speaker 5: and I'm assuming it's not as simple as that. So

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Speaker 5: I know Jared's going to be on tonight, so I

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Speaker 5: want to to see what he thought about that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, this is thank you for the talkback, by the way,

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Speaker 4: because actually I didn't even know about this case, so

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Speaker 4: thank you for the talkback. Jarrett is here. This is

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Speaker 4: a really really sad story, Courtney. Yeah, this one, this

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Speaker 4: one is so sad, So let me kind of break

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Speaker 4: it down for everybody. Right, So, on March six, five

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Speaker 4: teenagers they went to the home with their teacher. His

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Speaker 4: name is Jason Hughes, and this happened in Gainesville, Georgia,

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Speaker 4: and the idea was to toilet paper the trees outside

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Speaker 4: his house as part of the annual tradition of a

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Speaker 4: senior prank. Right, Like we all kind of did these

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Speaker 4: things in high school, right, You have an annual ditch day,

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Speaker 4: a prank day or whatever, and it's always kind of expected.

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Speaker 4: So when the teacher his name again is Jason Hughes.

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Speaker 4: When he came outside and the teens were trying to

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Speaker 4: drive away after toilet paper in the house, the teacher

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Speaker 4: slipped on the road and he was fatally struck by

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Speaker 4: a pickup truck driven by one of the students. And

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Speaker 4: the student's name is jay In Wallace, Okay, And now

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Speaker 4: Jane Wallace is facing felony vehicular homicide charges and has

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Speaker 4: released a public apology, while the teacher's widow has urged

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Speaker 4: authorities not to prosecute the teens involved in the incident.

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Speaker 4: And there's some there's something again, this is very sad,

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Speaker 4: and there's some interesting points. Okay. So on March sixth,

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Speaker 4: the day prior, the Hall County School District warned all

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Speaker 4: the students and the parents against participating in the school

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Speaker 4: prank traditions such as like Junior Senior prank wars qutioning

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Speaker 4: them to consider the long term impact of your actions. Well,

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Speaker 4: the next day, late at night, five of these teenagers,

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Speaker 4: they're all eighteen years and older, and they're all from Gainesville,

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Speaker 4: they went to the home of the teacher. Now, Jason

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Speaker 4: was a math teacher, he was a coach. He was

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Speaker 4: a club sponsor at North Hall High School and he

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Speaker 4: served as a director of a mentoring program. And his wife,

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Speaker 4: Laura Hughes, also taught math at the school and they

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Speaker 4: have two sons. So this seems like a teacher that

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Speaker 4: was really involved with his students, Like he really believed in,

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Speaker 4: you know, his job, and he clearly worked very hard

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Speaker 4: and he was even mentoring people, really stand up guy

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Speaker 4: in them. And his wife was also working at the school.

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Speaker 4: So his family, the teacher's family has said that the students,

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Speaker 4: he knew the students were planning this prank, and he

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Speaker 4: was excited.

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Speaker 2: He was excited to.

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Speaker 4: Participate in this prank, right, Like I had a teacher

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Speaker 4: like this. It was my favorite teacher. His name was

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Speaker 4: Bob Hasty, and he was my marching band teacher. And

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Speaker 4: he always knew the little things that we were up to,

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Speaker 4: you knowing excited about him and be waiting, you know

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Speaker 4: and scare us or you know, do something like that.

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Speaker 4: And I mean graduated high school in nineteen ninety one.

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Speaker 4: It's been like thirty years and I still remember him.

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Speaker 2: So this day.

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Speaker 4: Jason obviously had a lasting impact on his teacher. He

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Speaker 4: was waiting for them, he knew it was going to happen.

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Speaker 4: He was excited about it. So at about eleven forty

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Speaker 4: on March six, Jason came outside toward the road as

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Speaker 4: the teachers or the kids were attempting to leave the

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Speaker 4: area in a couple of different vehicles, and because it

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Speaker 4: had been raining, the teacher Jason slipped or he tripped

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Speaker 4: and fell in the road right in front of one

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Speaker 4: of the departing vehicles.

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Speaker 6: Oh God, so sad.

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Speaker 4: So the pickup truck driven by Jaden again, he's an

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Speaker 4: eighteen year old student at that high school in North Hall.

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Speaker 4: North Hall High School, it struck and ran the teacher

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Speaker 4: Jason over while leaving the scene. Now Jaden didn't like

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Speaker 4: take off Jaden and all the other teenager they stopped

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Speaker 4: immediately and attempted to administer first aid while they were

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Speaker 4: waiting for the emergency responders to come. The teacher Jason

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Speaker 4: was transported to a nearby hospital, but was pronounced dead

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Speaker 4: from his injury.

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Speaker 2: Oh guys, this is just horrific.

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Speaker 3: I know, Jared, what's your knee jerk reaction just hearing

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Speaker 3: about this case or following the.

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Speaker 7: Skill before you even get to prosecutor mode, you're at

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Speaker 7: person human being mode, and it's a horrible tragedy, and

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Speaker 7: a tragedy that's compounded by the fact that now this

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Speaker 7: young boy is charged criminally and is facing jail for

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Speaker 7: something that was, in their mind hijacked. You know. One

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Speaker 7: of the things you guys were discussing earlier was the

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Speaker 7: school warned the students to dayble. Now that warning is

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Speaker 7: not a warning against pausing the death of the subjects

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Speaker 7: of your prank. That warning is, hey, this is shenanigans.

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Speaker 7: It could result in, you know, damages that we're going

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Speaker 7: to have to pay money or restitution for. This all

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Speaker 7: comes down to foreseeability. Was this a foreseeable consequence of

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Speaker 7: Jaden's actions? It's a vehicular homicide charge. So basically they're

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Speaker 7: saying all of the high jinks aside his reckless driving

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Speaker 7: in this condition is really what caused this charge. But

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Speaker 7: it all comes down to why is this reckless? Is

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Speaker 7: toilet papering a tree likely to cause death? Is senior

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Speaker 7: prank likely to cause death of this nature? Is not hazing?

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Speaker 7: So all of these questions are factored into a prosecutor's mind.

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Speaker 7: They look at this, they recognize number one, the tragedy

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Speaker 7: of it. Number Two. The difficulty in moving forward on

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Speaker 7: a case like this, this is it's almost like a

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Speaker 7: law school example of getting you to just twist your

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Speaker 7: mind in a thousand different directions. And when I look

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Speaker 7: at a case like this, here's what I don't see.

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Speaker 7: I just don't see the recklessness in Jaden. And if

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Speaker 7: you don't see that, you're not going to get to

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Speaker 7: that beyond a reasonable doubt. And it's going to pull

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Speaker 7: on the heartstrings of a jury. That's what's going to

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Speaker 7: likely happen here.

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Speaker 3: Well, he go ahead, Courtney, if you are just joining us,

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Speaker 3: this is true crime tonight, and we are talking about

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Speaker 3: the case of a teacher, Jason Hughes, who was it appears,

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Speaker 3: accidentally run over by a teen who was at the

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Speaker 3: high school that he worked out during worked at during

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Speaker 3: a senior prank. And we're here with Jarrett Farantino talking

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Speaker 3: about what to do prosecution wise or what the thoughts are.

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Speaker 4: Right he was the guy. The kid was arrested on scene.

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Speaker 4: He was arrested on the scene, and he was charged

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Speaker 4: with homicide by a vehicle, which is a felony reckless driving,

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Speaker 4: as you stated, Farentino. He was also charged with criminal

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Speaker 4: trespass and littering. The other fourteens that he was with

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Speaker 4: were also charged. They were charged with misdemeanor criminal trespass

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Speaker 4: and littering. And you know, all five of them were

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Speaker 4: released on bond, so that all of them got chargers.

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Speaker 3: And the way, I think it's important also that all

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Speaker 3: of them were trying to administer first aid immediately.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 7: Well, here's the thing, and I think that's important. But

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Speaker 7: it all comes down to when you hear the word intent,

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Speaker 7: everybody thinks what you meant in your mind, right, But

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Speaker 7: intent can also be recklessness. You can be so reckless

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Speaker 7: that it becomes an intent to harm and it will boiled.

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Speaker 7: It comes. So even if they're taking care of mister Hughes,

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Speaker 7: you know, after he's hurt, the focus is really before that,

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Speaker 7: and the incident itself was Jaden's conduct reckless. Here's one

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Speaker 7: thing though, a point that body pointed out. He slipped

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Speaker 7: on the as a result of rain. If I'm the

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Speaker 7: defense attorney in this case, I'm saying that was not foreseeable.

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Speaker 7: It wasn't Nobody knew that mister Hughes was going to

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Speaker 7: fall in front of the kids. See how I'm saying

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Speaker 7: this because winning mister Hughes here, the kids here, and

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Speaker 7: he said that is an intervening fact. Now, as a driver,

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Speaker 7: you're supposed to pay attention to such conditions. You know,

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Speaker 7: was it a dry night, was it a wet night?

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Speaker 7: Those are the kind of things that as a prosecutor,

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Speaker 7: I'd say, Jayden, you should have been thinking about that.

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Speaker 7: You should be thinking that if he's running around near

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Speaker 7: your car, you can't just hi tail it out of there.

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Speaker 7: You run the risk of killing someone. And you did.

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Speaker 7: That's reckless. As a defense attorney, I would keep trying

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Speaker 7: to pull back the facts and say it did not

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Speaker 7: get to that reckless point where death was a likely result.

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Speaker 7: It's a tough one though, this one its As I'm

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Speaker 7: talking through it, I'm starting it's twisting.

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Speaker 6: Me up right.

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Speaker 4: Well, the wife of the teacher, Jason, her name is Laura,

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Speaker 4: and she's urged prosecutors to drop the charges, saying here's

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Speaker 4: what she said. She said that pursuing this case would

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Speaker 4: be counter to Jason's lifelong dedication of investing in the

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Speaker 4: lives of these children. When you're a prosecutor, do you

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Speaker 4: take into consideration the family of the victim at all?

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Speaker 4: Or is that something that you can do or you

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Speaker 4: should do, or what's the rule there.

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Speaker 7: Well, they're considered, but they're not controlling. So yes, absolutely

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Speaker 7: consider what a family says. You know, they are the

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Speaker 7: ones who have been impacted most seriously by this, friends

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Speaker 7: and family. But at the same time, I would often

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Speaker 7: remind families society is a victim of a crime too,

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Speaker 7: Like we have an obligation in the criminal justice system

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Speaker 7: in the United States. The state brings a case or

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Speaker 7: the federal government, not the family. That's for civil court.

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Speaker 7: So although we listen carefully to their wishes, they do

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Speaker 7: not control the ultimate decision. It's a decision based on

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Speaker 7: the law and the evidence. Right does not feel great,

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Speaker 7: I have to tell you because I've been there, when

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Speaker 7: a family is not on board with a prosecution. There's

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Speaker 7: a part of me and I certainly can speak for

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Speaker 7: other prosecutors that need that connection to fight for someone

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Speaker 7: who lost here. You know, society certainly lost mister Hughes here.

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Speaker 7: But when his family isn't on board, it's tough. Doesn't

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Speaker 7: mean you don't have to do your job. It just

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Speaker 7: changes the story and the dynamic considerably.

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Speaker 8: The go ahead, please to ask it technically wouldn't he

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Speaker 8: be trespassing? So does that also weigh in on the

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Speaker 8: decision of what's happening.

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Speaker 7: Yes, so let's just take that conduct. Right, he's trespassing

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Speaker 7: when they toilet paper, the free the next it. So

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Speaker 7: you're committing a crime, But the analysis always shifts to

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Speaker 7: that question of was the conduct you were committing was

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Speaker 7: it conceivable to or foresee a death as a result

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Speaker 7: of it. So trespassing to toilet paper a tree not

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Speaker 7: likely to result in death. Trespassing to rob a house

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Speaker 7: or to break in right island, in its nature likely

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Speaker 7: to result in death. So again, defense attorney's going to

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Speaker 7: be arguing, Yeah, the kids are trespassing. It's a prank

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Speaker 7: that mister hughes knew was coming and invited. So I'd

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Speaker 7: argue it's not a trespass. He welcomed it and then

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Speaker 7: he was excited. Not a crime likely to result in death,

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Speaker 7: not reckless by nature, That to me will not carry

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Speaker 7: the day on that charge.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 4: So, Jaden Ryan Wallace, I guess the suspect in this

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Speaker 4: case the defendant, right, the defendant in this case. Today

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Speaker 4: he and his parents issued statements expressing deep remorse with

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Speaker 4: Jaden Wallace saying, I pledge to live out the remainder

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Speaker 4: of my life in a manner that honors the memory

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Speaker 4: of Coach Hughes. And on March Night, a couple of

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Speaker 4: days ago, the students, you know, they had a little

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Speaker 4: memorial at the high school, and superintendent of that school,

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Speaker 4: Will Schoolfield, said that Jason Hughes was a loving husband,

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Speaker 4: a devoted father, a passionate teacher, mentor, and coach, and

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Speaker 4: the district also deployed grief teams to the students because

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Speaker 4: this is a big impact on the high school and

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Speaker 4: we're sending all of our love and support to Gainesville, Georgia.

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Speaker 4: This has got to be just a devastating impact on

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Speaker 4: your community. And you know, we're going to be following this.

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Speaker 4: It's very interesting.

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Speaker 3: Legally, Yeah, we will absolutely keep you updated and listen

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Speaker 3: when we come back. Attorney Jarrett Farentino will be sticking

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Speaker 3: around and he's going to help us break down a

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Speaker 3: case of a Utah nurse that is accused of convincing

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Speaker 3: her friend she had cancer and then poisoning her with insulin.

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Speaker 3: It's a really complicated keep it here True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 4: Welcome to Your Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. Where we're talking

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Speaker 4: true crime all the time. If you're hearing my voice,

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Speaker 4: you know there's something wrong. This is Bobby Movean and

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Speaker 4: I'm here with Courtney Armstrong and Taha Howes. Our beloved

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Speaker 4: Stephanie is out.

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Speaker 2: Tonight.

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Speaker 4: Later in the show, we're going to be unpacking the

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Speaker 4: Lucy Letby trial and the controversy surrounding it. I didn't

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Speaker 4: hear anything about this until tonight. This one's gonna be

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Speaker 4: wild to unpack. But first, Courtney, you have this kind

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Speaker 4: of insane story. What's going on in Utah? By the way,

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Speaker 4: we have a lot of cases coming out of Utah lately.

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Speaker 4: Here's another one. What's going on?

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Speaker 2: Okay?

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Speaker 3: This is something This feels like we're going to fast

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Speaker 3: forward eighteen months and see it on TV.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so taking notes, I'm taking there.

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Speaker 3: But today was the first day of a trial. So

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Speaker 3: we have a woman who named Megan Sandwell and she's

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Speaker 3: nurse okay, and she is on trials. She's accused of

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Speaker 3: causing her friend's death through an insulin overdose in a

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Speaker 3: scheme to obtain one point five million dollars in her

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Speaker 3: friend's life insurance money. Okay, So that's the allegation, and

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Speaker 3: she this Nurse san Sundwell has been charged with aggravated

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Speaker 3: murder obstruction of justice in the death of the thirty

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Speaker 3: eight year old victim, Casey Lyn Terry. Now what gets

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Speaker 3: very confusing is even between what the prosecution is alleging.

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Speaker 3: So they're alleging that nurse Sundwell helped the victim who

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Speaker 3: claimed she was gravely ill, the woman who ended up dying,

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Speaker 3: that she helped her end her life by administering a

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Speaker 3: lethal dose of insulin back in August of twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 3: So the defense acknowledges that, yes, nurse Sundwell was present

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Speaker 3: when Casey Terry lost her life on the day of

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Speaker 3: her death. However, they contend that it was actually a

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Speaker 3: suicide and that Casey Terry took her own life and

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Speaker 3: jurors may be instructed to consider assisted suicide as a

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Speaker 3: lesser charge under aggravated murder. When asked, is this like

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Speaker 3: a doctor Kravorkian moment?

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Speaker 2: Is she so? Okay?

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Speaker 4: So let me just ask okay. So the victim, Casey, right,

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Speaker 4: she says that she was gravely ill. Right, Is that

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Speaker 4: is that my understanding?

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Speaker 2: Yes? Okay?

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Speaker 4: And then her friend, why is her friend getting the

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Speaker 4: benefit of her life insurance.

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Speaker 2: Is she the is she like the I guess the beneficiary?

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Speaker 3: Yeah so against yes so. And there's more details. But first,

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Speaker 3: I'd love Jared on its face. What are your do

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Speaker 3: you have knee jerk reaction to this?

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Speaker 7: This is a wild one. You have a lot going

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Speaker 7: on with these two ladies if you look at it,

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Speaker 7: Meghan and Casey. So Casey was the victim and patient, okay,

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Speaker 7: and Megan was the nurse. Both of them are engaging

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Speaker 7: in these text communications. Casey is suggesting she's sick, Megan

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Speaker 7: is and she is not. And it's been established, not

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Speaker 7: even after her autopsy, she had no medical condition that

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Speaker 7: put her life at risk. Meghan fed into this delusion

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Speaker 7: that she was ill. She promoted it. She told her

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Speaker 7: basically like you're at the end of the line here.

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Speaker 7: But here's the interesting fact you don't see in these

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Speaker 7: assisted suicide cases. Megan was the beneficiary of a life

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Speaker 7: insurance policy. That's motive. That's not mercy killing. That's not

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Speaker 7: helping you friend who you know isn't sick die, that's real.

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Speaker 7: In fact, in one of the texts, she says, this

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Speaker 7: is going to help me out I know you're at

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Speaker 7: the end of the line, but this is going to

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Speaker 7: get me out of my situation. Basically, she's acknowledging she's

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Speaker 7: going to benefit from the death of Casey. That's that's

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Speaker 7: not assisted suicide. Jack Kavorkian and people that have engaged

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Speaker 7: in that kind of conduct have been viewed in a

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Speaker 7: sense as mercy killings, right, but they didn't have necessarily

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Speaker 7: a million dollar payday on the other side of it.

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Speaker 7: That changes this dramatically.

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Speaker 4: And in Utah, I mean, there's only a couple of

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Speaker 4: states where you're allowed to do these kinds of things,

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Speaker 4: like Oregon, I think is one, and I would I

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Speaker 4: would imagine Utah, you know, being as how populated it

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Speaker 4: is by people of religion. This is not something that

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Speaker 4: would be, you know, something that you can do in

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Speaker 4: the state of Utah.

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Speaker 7: Wow, you can't ignore you can't ignore the actions around

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Speaker 7: this incident, the statements in their messages, the troll that

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Speaker 7: Megan had over Casey. Just based on the texts and

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Speaker 7: the method used she hit her with insulce. She basically

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Speaker 7: fed her insulin, she was not a diabetic, and the

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Speaker 7: medical evidence of it. So you can't ignore all that.

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Speaker 7: And if you look at it all together, it's well

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Speaker 7: beyond an assisted suicide. In my opinion, this is someone

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Speaker 7: with motive to take Casey out and did just that.

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Speaker 3: So I'll counter that a little bit, and I'm going

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Speaker 3: to back up. So the victim, who, as Jared points

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Speaker 3: it out, had nothing wrong with her, as confirmed an autopsy,

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Speaker 3: she for years was describing a serious range of health

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Speaker 3: problems to her friend, nurse Maggie, and she the victim

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Speaker 3: would get sale lean delivered to her home and had

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Speaker 3: a port where she would administer it, and she claimed

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Speaker 3: it was chemotherapy. And also the victim would pretend to

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Speaker 3: be doctors and nurses and texting the now on trial

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Speaker 3: nurse Megan and say, oh, you know, she's near death. Casey.

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Speaker 3: The victim is near death. So she was creating this

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Speaker 3: crazy web of lies, it seems.

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Speaker 7: Here's the difference in this situation. Yeah, you take your

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Speaker 7: defendants as you find them, Okay. And the defendant we

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Speaker 7: have here is a medical expert. She is a nurse.

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Speaker 7: So did she review the charts?

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Speaker 6: Did she?

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Speaker 7: I mean, clearly, you're trained in the health sciences. You

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Speaker 7: can look at a situation and tell whether someone is

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Speaker 7: in the throes of a medical mental situation or a

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Speaker 7: physical situation. It's not enough to see a saline and

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Speaker 7: a port to say this is someone undergoing chemotherapy. If

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Speaker 7: there's no record to review, it's key manipulation, and the

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Speaker 7: manipulation went both ways here, and that's not something that

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Speaker 7: the jury's going to ignore. I agree with you, it's

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Speaker 7: a factor, but it's not really about what's in Casey's mind.

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Speaker 7: It's about what was in Megan's mind. And that's really

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Speaker 7: where you're going to assess the intent, assess the conduct.

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Speaker 7: And you know, take someone who's a black belt in karate,

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Speaker 7: if they get into a fight, you're going to say

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Speaker 7: it's different when they punch someone versus someone who is

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Speaker 7: not trained. You are judged based on your knowledge subjectively

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Speaker 7: in court. Megan's problem here is she's a nurse and

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Speaker 7: that's going to hurt her.

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Speaker 2: You're right, but she had a port. A doctor had

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Speaker 2: to install that port.

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Speaker 4: I'm very familiar with these ports because because my mom

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Speaker 4: had to get on and it I mean that it

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Speaker 4: is where the chemotherapy goes. It's so that you don't

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Speaker 4: have to get stuck with needles all the time. But

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Speaker 4: who installed this port? Now, why did she have this port?

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Speaker 2: Well, it's very confusing.

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Speaker 7: I think it's going to come down to those little details,

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Speaker 7: and you're going to the jury is basically going to

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Speaker 7: have to assess the situation from Megan's standpoint, what would

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Speaker 7: a nurse? And the text messages are going to be

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Speaker 7: very very telling here even beyond you know, and I said,

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Speaker 7: you can't look at this and not say there was

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Speaker 7: bizarre stuff going on here. Casey had clearly some mental

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Speaker 7: health issues, right, and that's going to have to be reviewed.

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Speaker 7: But I promise you if Megan administered that lethal dose

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Speaker 7: and it's she was the beneficiary of a policy, that

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Speaker 7: just smells bad.

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Speaker 4: This is your crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

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Speaker 4: crime all the time. We're right in the middle of

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Speaker 4: talking about this crazy nurse story out of Utah, and Jared,

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Speaker 4: you had mentioned that, you know, it's going to come

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Speaker 4: on to these text messages. The investigators have pointed to

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Speaker 4: four years of text messages. This was going on for

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Speaker 4: quite some time, and in those text messages, Megan, the nurse,

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Speaker 4: reportedly suggested various methods for Casey that she could use

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Speaker 4: to end her life and offered assistance. Is it possible.

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Speaker 4: I mean, listen, I don't know how I feel about this,

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Speaker 4: because I do think it's possible that even though this

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Speaker 4: nurse who's educated, she's a registered nurse, right, I mean,

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Speaker 4: you have to go you have to have a lot

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Speaker 4: of schooling to become a registered nurse. But I mean,

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Speaker 4: somebody installed this port, this port is that's going to

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Speaker 4: be an issue. I really think it could be an issue.

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Speaker 4: I don't think a nurse could install a port. My mom, Listen,

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Speaker 4: I don't. I only have experience with like one situation

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Speaker 4: with the port, but my mom had to have surgery

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Speaker 4: to have it done because it goes right into like

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Speaker 4: a pick line, like a it's like a major artery, right.

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Speaker 2: Well, that.

435
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 4: If I was a nurse and I and I saw

436
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 4: somebody with a port, I would probably be like, oh,

437
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 4: they're sick. I don't know. I don't know how I feel.

438
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 4: Maybe a nurse could give us a call eight to

439
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 4: eight thirty one crime, let us know.

440
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 8: Can I ask Jared a real quick question, just if

441
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 8: the victim has been saying for years and hinting at

442
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 8: wanting to end her life, could that impact the potential

443
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 8: sort of idea that it was a murder, like in

444
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 8: other words, if she really wanted to end her life

445
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,880
Speaker 8: and this is her friend's way of sort of helping her.

446
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 6: Is that Does that make a difference with the case.

447
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 7: I think it will, and it's going to give the

448
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 7: jury pause undoubtedly. I just the inescapable thing here is

449
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 7: she brought a substance to her friend. Okay, here's the allegation,

450
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 7: which may bear out. She poisoned her friend to death

451
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 7: with the sailing and she's the multi it's a one

452
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 7: point five million dollar life insurance. There's just people kill

453
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 7: for very few reasons, love, greed, mental illness. So then

454
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:18,160
Speaker 7: you have this little exception of assisted suicide. But boy,

455
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 7: that greed one is very strong, and it's staring you

456
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 7: right in the face, in the face of a medically

457
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 7: trained person. I understand the manipulation of Casey with factor

458
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 7: in here, but a victim's manipulation does not excuse unlawful

459
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 7: murderous conduct of a defendant.

460
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:41,919
Speaker 3: Right, and you know the defendant, nurse Megan, she was

461
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 3: having a lot of financial struggles.

462
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 2: She lost her job, she had lost her car.

463
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 3: She had Yeah, so she lost her job, she lost

464
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 3: her car, and additionally she had to I think recently.

465
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 3: In recent times, her child support she had to pay

466
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 3: to a former ex husband had doubled, so she was

467
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 3: really on the hook financially motive there.

468
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 6: Yeah, a lot, you know.

469
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:16,200
Speaker 3: And and these four years worth of text messages, which

470
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 3: again are very confusing both ways. But nurse Megan, the defendant,

471
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:25,399
Speaker 3: did say, if you dying would get me out of

472
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 3: the mess and darkness, I am in I would take it.

473
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,400
Speaker 2: And yeah that's my quote.

474
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 3: Another one, you know, And this could have been a

475
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 3: little more of let me egg you on.

476
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 2: Than can I be of service?

477
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 3: So another thing she texted was there is nothing left

478
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 3: for you here and you have to let go.

479
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 2: It's past time.

480
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 3: Once other years her that's correct, she.

481
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 2: Lost her job. Was she a nurse at a hospital?

482
00:28:58,440 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 2: I don't know more.

483
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, we will know a lot more again, it's day

484
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 3: one night, okay, so Jared question on this. Prosecutors also

485
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 3: said that there were two hundred and eighty three messages

486
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 3: in their text exchange that were deleted from defendant Nurse

487
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 3: Megan's phone, and they know this because they were on

488
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 3: the victim's phone. So how much does retrospectively going and

489
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 3: deleting messages that may not make you look so savory.

490
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 2: How does that factor in?

491
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 7: Well, here's what I would ask the jury. Do you

492
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 7: think we would delete good messages that help you or

493
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 7: ones that hurt you? It's smart, right, They were probably

494
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 7: the messages that included her Casey's medical diagnosis and you

495
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 7: know all the stuff that would spring Megan from her

496
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 7: defense chair. Right. But reality is this, That is consciousness

497
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 7: of guilt, that's hiding something. Two hundred and eighty three

498
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 7: messages when you have all the these other ones there

499
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 7: and they didn't say they were lost, they didn't say

500
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 7: they were overwritten, they say they were deleted. That is

501
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 7: a deliberate, intentional act that will factor in. And those

502
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 7: other issues she had are going around her. She was

503
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 7: having financial difficulty. She's again the beneficiary of this policy.

504
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 7: It goes to motive. All of that is compared to

505
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 7: whether what's more likely the scenario here she helped her

506
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 7: kill herself out of love and mercy, or she was

507
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 7: the beneficiary of a one point five million dollar life

508
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 7: insurance policy. Deleted these texts and was great.

509
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 4: I don't know, I don't know, I don't know what

510
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 4: it's going to happen. This is going to be a

511
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 4: really interesting one.

512
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 6: That's all.

513
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 2: I'm brought this to a scortney.

514
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 7: I count a sequel for tonight's episode because these are

515
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 7: cases that I know the first knows what's going to happen.

516
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 3: No confounding, and I'll leave it. We're about to go

517
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 3: to commercial break. But here's a piece of the prosecutions

518
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 3: mark that opens up a whole other bagger worms will

519
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 3: be getting into. Said, I believe you will find that

520
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 3: the victim Casey, neither wanted nor intended to die on

521
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 3: August twelfth, even though she pretended she did want to

522
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 3: in an increasingly desperate attempt to keep Nurse Megan's attention

523
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 3: and affection.

524
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 4: Is this kind of Munchausen reversed or something?

525
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 7: Now, I don't he's explaining away. He's getting out in

526
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 7: front he or she is getting out in front of

527
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 7: that on the case kind of just acknowledging a weakness

528
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 7: right up front and then explaining it away.

529
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 4: Well, this one has piqued my interest. I am definitely

530
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 4: interested in this one. I want to know what's going

531
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 4: to happen. I want to know what the outcome is.

532
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 4: I want to know what the jury's going to say.

533
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 2: Later in the show.

534
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 3: We're going to be getting into the details about the

535
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 3: case of a former NFL player he's accused of asking

536
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 3: chat GBT how to handle the crime scene of his

537
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 3: dead girlfriend. So stick around for that later. But right now,

538
00:31:55,200 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 3: Jarrett Farantino, who is a fabulous prosecutor, is going to

539
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 3: help us break down a case that body is going

540
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 3: to describe, but go ahead.

541
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, So this is in regards to Lucy Leppie, and

542
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 4: we're kind of unpacking this because we have a really

543
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 4: good guest tomorrow, Amanda Knox, and she's like unpacking this case,

544
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 4: I guess more broadly in her new podcast, right.

545
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, her podcast Doubt is right, it goes the entirety

546
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 3: of it, will be digging into this case, right, and

547
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 3: she's going to be here tomorrow to talk about this,

548
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 3: so we wanted to like get everybody kind of up

549
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 3: to speed before she gets here so that we seem

550
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 3: a lot smarter than we.

551
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 4: Are, right, Yeah, So this is this is the case, right.

552
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 4: So this is Lucy Leppie. She is a neonatal your nurse,

553
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 4: which means you know babies, right. She's a neo natal

554
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 4: your nurse at the Countess of Chester Hospital in England

555
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 4: and She was found guilty in twenty twenty three of

556
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 4: murdering seven babies and attempting to kill six more between

557
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 4: twenty fifteen and twenty sixteen. So that's you know, the

558
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 4: accusations there. That's huge, right, Yeah, thirteen babies. She's being

559
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 4: accused of a farming in a year. That's one a month.

560
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 4: It's terrible anyway, So the prosecution said that she used

561
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 4: methods like injecting excess air or insulin. Lucy let Bee

562
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 4: was handed fifteen whole life prismas sentences, which means she

563
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 4: will spend the rest of her life behind bars. Lucy

564
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 4: Letbee's case has sparked a lot of debate and many people,

565
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 4: you know, they continue to argue that she may have

566
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 4: been wrongfully convicted. This case is again the subject of doubt.

567
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 4: The Case of Lucy let Be the new podcast by

568
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 4: Amanda Knox and we're going to be discussing this tomorrow

569
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 4: on the show, and we have a talkback right now.

570
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 2: Let's go to that talkback.

571
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 9: Hey, taym I just wanted to jump on with Amandados

572
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 9: coming on about her new podcast, which I've listened to.

573
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 9: I followed the Lucy let Be case really closely when

574
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 9: it first happened, I was following the daily Core proceedings,

575
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 9: reading transcripts, following a number of different news sources. I've

576
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 9: read everything on both sides, the New Yorker article, other

577
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:14,280
Speaker 9: books and things that I've been read, and I still

578
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 9: believe that it was a fair trial. They had no

579
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 9: witnesses in her defense apart from herself and a plumber,

580
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 9: and really no medical witnesses, no one to contradict what

581
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,359
Speaker 9: was being presented by the prosecution. And I think that

582
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 9: is where, you know, the concern comes for me, truly,

583
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:33,359
Speaker 9: And the paper that he wrote existed at the time.

584
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,720
Speaker 9: Why was he not there? You know, if it's ineffective counsel,

585
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 9: then appeal on those grounds, don't be appealing on the

586
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 9: grounds of new evidence.

587
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:42,320
Speaker 10: Just doesn't seem right to me.

588
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,240
Speaker 4: Thanks, well, thanks for that call, because yeah, we didn't

589
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 4: follow it at all, right, so it's good to hear

590
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 4: from somebody who was following it along as it was happening. Yeah, An,

591
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,879
Speaker 4: you know, you've left many talkbacks. You're very intelligent woman.

592
00:34:57,520 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 6: You know.

593
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 2: I tend to like, you know, kind of believe what

594
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,600
Speaker 2: you say. So what do we think we don't?

595
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,279
Speaker 3: Well, I'm going to give a little bit more details

596
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 3: and then have way in So let's just yeah, just

597
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 3: gross background. Four years before these babies, very sadly all

598
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 3: started dying, lucy let Be began working as a neonatal

599
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 3: nurse and this was in England at the same hospital,

600
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 3: at the same hospital. Correct, it was the Countess of

601
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:33,360
Speaker 3: Chester Hospital in Chester, England. So she starts in twenty eleven.

602
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:36,879
Speaker 3: There is the wild upkit tick in twenty fifteen through

603
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:43,760
Speaker 3: twenty sixteen, and the unexplained infant deaths were called catastrophic

604
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:47,720
Speaker 3: collapses that occurred when lucy let Be was on duty.

605
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 3: And also consultants concluded the deaths were not medically explicable

606
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:57,840
Speaker 3: and were the result of the actions and investigators relied

607
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 3: heavily on things such as the timing of lucy let

608
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 3: Be being present when the babies collapsed, as well as

609
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:09,400
Speaker 3: the fact that once let Be was removed from the

610
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 3: neonatal unit, the unexplained deaths stopped.

611
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 2: So, yeah, Jared.

612
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 3: In cases like this, how do the courts determine sort

613
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 3: of if circumstantial evidence such as being present during incidents

614
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 3: is strong enough to support a conviction for murder or

615
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 3: attempted murder?

616
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:33,280
Speaker 7: Well, in my experience and under the law, circumstantial evidence

617
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 7: is reated the same as direct evidence. You know, when

618
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 7: and we've talked about this before, when you're building that wall,

619
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 7: you know, when the bricks stack high enough. So and

620
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 7: I know people don't always like circumstantial evidence, but it

621
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 7: can be very compelling. So look at these These cases

622
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 7: are called collapses because there's no natural disease process that

623
00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 7: occurs within the body that collapses this many little babies

624
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:06,760
Speaker 7: in that short amount of time without some intervening excess

625
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,399
Speaker 7: air things of that nature that may not come up

626
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 7: in an autopsy or something like that. So they're called

627
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 7: collapses because they're so sudden. The other thing is, in

628
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 7: a situation like that, and when you're conducting a forensic

629
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 7: autopsy examination, you are allowed to consider the attending circumstances,

630
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:31,360
Speaker 7: who is typically there, what else could explain it? Statistically,

631
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 7: this should not be happening all of a sudden. You

632
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 7: find this Lucy let be who is present every time,

633
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 7: and other circumstances. In the case when she's not there,

634
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 7: it doesn't happen. When she leaves that nurse, the station,

635
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:51,800
Speaker 7: or that hospital, these collapses aren't occurring. You can't ignore

636
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 7: that fact. It is circumstantial, highly but very very powerful evidence.

637
00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure. So we can get into the true

638
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 4: a little bit. There's some more detail, right. So her

639
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 4: trial began in October twenty two and she went to

640
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 4: the Manchester Crown Court on twenty two charges, and they

641
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:14,439
Speaker 4: included murder and attempted murder of infants in her care,

642
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:19,880
Speaker 4: and colleagues testified to her unusual behavior, including dismissing concerns

643
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 4: from other staff, intervening with infants that were not assigned

644
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 4: to her, and spending extra time with families of babies

645
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 4: who died. Right and get this, police found notes in

646
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 4: her home, including one that said, I am evil, I

647
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 4: did this.

648
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 6: Isn't that interesting?

649
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:40,799
Speaker 7: Again, that's the kind of stuff like you look at

650
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 7: that series of events right, That to me again as

651
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 7: a prosecutor putting my prosecutor hat on, is a series

652
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 7: of events that forms a coherent narrative. Here, what's the

653
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 7: common denominator you have? Let be who's treating kids babies

654
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 7: she shouldn't be treating. At some point he's with the family.

655
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 7: So she's embroiled in this drama that she is convicted

656
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 7: of creating, and she's dismissive of staff raising a concern

657
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:15,320
Speaker 7: with her. If somebody is a nurse and they accuse you, Hey, Lucy,

658
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 7: you're around all these kids that are dying. You're going

659
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 7: to just dismiss that statement. That doesn't make any sense either.

660
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 7: And then they find that writing. She's trying to get

661
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 7: it out. She writes this down that to me is

662
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,760
Speaker 7: an admission, and her defense team worked to explain it away.

663
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 7: But when you look at all of that that, think

664
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,319
Speaker 7: about the wall, think about the bricks. That is one brick,

665
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:38,279
Speaker 7: it's probably the top one. That's the one I put

666
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 7: on last. I'm like, oh, yeah, then this that sealed

667
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 7: her fate. There's no other innocent explanations explaining it away.

668
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 7: Now we're revisiting the case with medical experts that are

669
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 7: taking issue with some of the findings. Fine, you know

670
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 7: they have the right to do that. I don't know

671
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:59,440
Speaker 7: if it's going to overcome that series of events that

672
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 7: in formed the prosecution here.

673
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 8: Well, I just playing, Yeah, I was just gonna say,

674
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 8: playing Devil's advocate, Like I mean, I do see the

675
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 8: defense as saying, like she wrote, I am evil, I

676
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 8: did this and it was part of a therapeutic journal that.

677
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 2: That's what they say.

678
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,839
Speaker 8: They said it was therapeutic, right, right, And going back

679
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:20,280
Speaker 8: to okay, she spent a lot of time with the

680
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 8: families of the grieving babies. And again this is me

681
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:25,319
Speaker 8: just playing devil's advocate for a second. Maybe she really

682
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:28,800
Speaker 8: did feel bad about these parents having lost a child,

683
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,720
Speaker 8: and maybe she did take on extra work and helped

684
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 8: other babies because you know, she loved her what she

685
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:36,759
Speaker 8: was doing, or she was a go getter, like I mean,

686
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:37,799
Speaker 8: I'm just thinking.

687
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:41,839
Speaker 6: There could be a world where some of.

688
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:46,359
Speaker 8: This is just all coincidental for lack of a better word,

689
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 8: because it doesn't seem like she had a clear motive.

690
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 8: And I wonder if there is no clear motive, does

691
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:54,840
Speaker 8: that impact whether or not, you know, people look at this,

692
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:55,879
Speaker 8: or impact the.

693
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 6: Fact that it could be charges murder?

694
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:00,879
Speaker 7: I mean, the motive in these cases tends to be

695
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 7: some kind of a mental health issue with wanting to

696
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 7: create this drama. Maybe she had difficulty conceiving children of

697
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 7: her own. And again, I'm those are the kinds of

698
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 7: motives we've seen in the past. But I look at

699
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 7: what these innocent explanations, which as a defense attorney, I'd

700
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 7: be looking to make with Taha's pointing out and in

701
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:24,720
Speaker 7: response to those who say, you know, she's either really

702
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 7: unlucky and you know, is a black cloud over this

703
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:33,799
Speaker 7: nurses station, or she's involved in triggering what are all

704
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 7: otherwise unnatural debts of multiple babies. She happens to be there,

705
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 7: she jumps into the drama, comforting the family. That's the

706
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 7: way you've got to tie all that together. And then

707
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:49,360
Speaker 7: there was medical evidence. There was medical evidence explaining the

708
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 7: debts that they were not a natural disease process that

709
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 7: although they weren't all conclusive in and of itself, creates

710
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:02,879
Speaker 7: a circumstance that there was a likely unlawful, intervening, unnatural

711
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:04,280
Speaker 7: contributor to these deaths.

712
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:05,799
Speaker 2: Well, let's talk about that really quick.

713
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:09,239
Speaker 4: So the prosecutor's main expert, his name or her name

714
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:14,720
Speaker 4: actually was Dewey Evans, and they testified on the medical

715
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:19,880
Speaker 4: mechanisms and they said it was insulin poisoning and air embolism.

716
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 4: Right well, post trial after this is some of the controversy.

717
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:32,239
Speaker 4: Other experts criticized Dewey Evans's conclusions as medically implausible, and

718
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:38,239
Speaker 4: Dewey Evans himself revised portions of his opinions and there

719
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 4: were also some swipe card logs right that used to

720
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:45,759
Speaker 4: track her movements throughout the hospital, and the movements were

721
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 4: mislabeled as entries and exits and missing data for some

722
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:54,360
Speaker 4: of the doors, and it raised questions about the reliability

723
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 4: of the timeline that the defense or the prosecution outlined.

724
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 4: So there were some controversies. And you know, in the

725
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:07,840
Speaker 4: hospital portion of all this context, the critics argue that

726
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:12,799
Speaker 4: the hospital staffing and hygiene issues could have explained the change,

727
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:17,360
Speaker 4: you know, the uptick in these babies dying. A Royal

728
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 4: College of Pediatrics and Child Health review, they noted that

729
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 4: inadequate leadership and staffing during this period of the deaths contributed.

730
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 4: I guess there's just a lot of other so senior

731
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:40,800
Speaker 4: hospital executives they face scrutiny, suspensions fitness to practiced investigations

732
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:43,800
Speaker 4: for failing to act on early warning signs like after

733
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 4: the first you know couple, and nothing was changed, there

734
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:52,800
Speaker 4: were no processes changed. The case has prompted calls for NHS,

735
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 4: which is in England, management reforms, better hospital oversight and

736
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:02,799
Speaker 4: stricter accountability for medical professional and Lucy did appeal this

737
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 4: a couple times and it was declined.

738
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 3: So I have one quick thing before we want to

739
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 3: throw back to you, Jared, and that's to go back

740
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 3: to the talk back at the beginning of this segment.

741
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:19,359
Speaker 3: Who you know what she said, and it sounds she's

742
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 3: incredibly well informed and followed it closely that she herself

743
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 3: thinks that the jerry got it right, but then suggested, Hey,

744
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 3: if you have a problem with your counsel, then maybe

745
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 3: appeal on poor counsel. So, Jared, are the things that

746
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 3: body just pointed out that were not brought up during

747
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 3: the trial by her defense?

748
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:43,960
Speaker 2: Is that anything to argue on?

749
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 7: Yeah, So that question was a really good question. But

750
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 7: the answer to the question is you could argue both.

751
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:56,839
Speaker 7: It's like, there are meritorious defense claims, scientific evidence, statistical

752
00:44:56,960 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 7: data management failings. Those things are like, in a sense,

753
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:05,320
Speaker 7: new evidence if science is evolving and it's changing its opinion.

754
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:09,799
Speaker 7: But the other thing is you blame the attorney for

755
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:13,800
Speaker 7: not investigating these things and raising them. So in a sense,

756
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:18,399
Speaker 7: it's an ineffective assistance of counsel appeal and you have

757
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:20,919
Speaker 7: to go through that evidence bit by bit, so it's

758
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 7: blamed the lawyer and address the merits of these defense points.

759
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:27,360
Speaker 7: One thing I want to say though about the blaming

760
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:30,880
Speaker 7: of management. Part of those blaming of management is they

761
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:35,360
Speaker 7: didn't find Lucy let be fast enough, like so arguable.

762
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:37,880
Speaker 7: I mean, the deaths died on the happened on their watch.

763
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 7: They're tragic and there is some culpability there on the

764
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 7: part of management for not addressing it. But part of

765
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:46,400
Speaker 7: the criticism is you didn't recognize that Lucy Letpi was

766
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 7: work and every time this happened and she was acting

767
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,279
Speaker 7: this way, So that cuts both ways, I think. But

768
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:56,760
Speaker 7: these are important appeal issues, but this trial has withstood

769
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:01,480
Speaker 7: a pellet scrutiny so far. Her case has stood up.

770
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:05,319
Speaker 7: I understand it certainly raises some significant questions, but the

771
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 7: appeals courts that are given her a fair shake have

772
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 7: looked at this so far and said she got a

773
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:16,240
Speaker 7: fair trial, she had competent counsel, the conviction stands well.

774
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 4: And to that point, Lucy her legal team submitted an

775
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 4: application to the what's called the Criminal Case Review Commission,

776
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 4: and it's similar to the Instance Commission, but it's a

777
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:30,239
Speaker 4: formal government body with the potential to refer cases back

778
00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:34,320
Speaker 4: to the court anyway. It's been submitted for a potential

779
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 4: miscarriage of justice, and the submission was supported by an

780
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 4: independent panel of fourteen international experts that concluded no evidence

781
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:43,280
Speaker 4: of deliberate harm.

782
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:45,360
Speaker 2: So there is some teeth to this.

783
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:48,719
Speaker 4: I think there is some teeth to the fourteen independent

784
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:52,880
Speaker 4: international experts concluded that Lucy's case is now with that

785
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:57,240
Speaker 4: commission and they're reviewing it for new evidence and expert reports.

786
00:46:57,320 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 4: So we're gonna have to see.

787
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:02,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we'll find out more tomorrow night with Amanda Knox,

788
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,319
Speaker 3: who knows this case inside and out. So listen, keep

789
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:08,800
Speaker 3: it here because at the top of the hour, Jarrett

790
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 3: Farantino is sticking around. He agreed, and we're going to

791
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 3: talk about a former NFL player accused of murder. Keep

792
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 3: it here, True Crime Tonight. Welcome back to True Crime

793
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:34,840
Speaker 3: Tonight on iHeartRadio, where we talk true crime all the time.

794
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 3: I'm Courtney Armstrong. I am here with my buddy body

795
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:42,680
Speaker 3: move in. Stephanie Leideker is out this evening. However, we've

796
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:45,399
Speaker 3: got producer Taha Sam and Adam in the control room

797
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 3: and Jarrett Farantino, Everyone's favorite prosecutor, joining us to break

798
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 3: our cases down and listen.

799
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:54,759
Speaker 2: If you've missed any part of the show. You can

800
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:56,319
Speaker 2: always catch us on the podcast.

801
00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:00,719
Speaker 3: We're available wherever you get your podcast, and we love

802
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:03,279
Speaker 3: to hear from you always. We're at eighty and eight

803
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 3: three one Crime or Get with Us. We're on socials.

804
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:09,920
Speaker 3: We are at True Crime Tonight show on TikTok and

805
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 3: Instagram and True Crime Tonight on Facebook. So, guys, have

806
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 3: you heard about this case with the NFL former linebacker

807
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:23,799
Speaker 3: Darren Lee.

808
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 4: Girl, I haven't heard about any of the cases that

809
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:29,799
Speaker 4: we've talked about tonight, So I am listen. I am

810
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 4: here for all the new cases, like I want to

811
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:33,040
Speaker 4: hear all about.

812
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:35,920
Speaker 8: It fresh ones. And of course I've heard about it

813
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:39,000
Speaker 8: only because Ava. But right, it's a good I don't.

814
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 2: Know about it.

815
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 3: Tell me the story, Okay, It's so interesting and I

816
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:45,520
Speaker 3: can't wait to hear what Jared has to say as well. So,

817
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 3: just about a month ago, on February fifth of this year,

818
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:57,360
Speaker 3: twenty nine year old Gabriella Perpetuo was discovered dead in

819
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:02,480
Speaker 3: her home in Tennessee, and she had evidence of severe injuries.

820
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:07,919
Speaker 3: This included a broken neck, brain trauma, stab wounds, and

821
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 3: a bite mark on her thigh. Now her boyfriend is

822
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 3: thirty one year old former NFL linebacker Darren Lee now

823
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 3: Darren Lee, was arrested in charged with first degree murder

824
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:29,320
Speaker 3: as well as tampering with or fabricating evidence. And here's

825
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 3: kind of the kicker. New court documents reveal that the accused,

826
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:40,240
Speaker 3: Darren Lee, allegedly sent messages to chat GPT seeking advice

827
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:43,880
Speaker 3: on how to handle the scene before.

828
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:45,840
Speaker 2: Calling nine to one one.

829
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 3: Interesting, yes, so, and I'm gonna yeah, I'm gonna say

830
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:54,399
Speaker 3: just a couple of those and then throw it out.

831
00:49:54,440 --> 00:50:03,800
Speaker 3: So so, when the incident occurred, when Gabriella Perpatuo died,

832
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:10,280
Speaker 3: Darren Lee allegedly sent a series of messages to chat GPT,

833
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:14,800
Speaker 3: and on his computer, CHATDPT was known as Ali.

834
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 2: I guess he'd given.

835
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:20,239
Speaker 3: A chat GPT your little nickname, okay, And these messages

836
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 3: include a few things like ali aka chat GPT, What

837
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 3: should I tell my friend to handle someone non responsive

838
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:34,880
Speaker 3: but wants to call the police? Or stab wound like

839
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:36,919
Speaker 3: puncture could be caused by a fall?

840
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:37,760
Speaker 2: Question mark?

841
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 3: Also, she got blood all over the damn place? And

842
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:47,240
Speaker 3: one last one, fiance did her crazy thing again?

843
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:50,759
Speaker 2: Do do dot? She isn't waking up or responding?

844
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:56,759
Speaker 3: What do I do so without further details, Jared, what

845
00:50:56,800 --> 00:51:00,120
Speaker 3: are your thoughts if someone's doing all that before calling.

846
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:06,719
Speaker 7: Well, they're trying to cover their tracks, and they're phrasing

847
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 7: that in a way that would suggest that's not what's

848
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 7: going on. Can't like if we read back those those

849
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:20,319
Speaker 7: chat prompts, it's basically she's acting crazy again. Now does

850
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:23,560
Speaker 7: that refer back to another conversation he had with chat

851
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:27,360
Speaker 7: gpt about her acting crazy? Because that's what it sounds

852
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:31,000
Speaker 7: like to me. He's also saying, can puncture wounds be

853
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 7: caused by a fall? Because he's going to tell the

854
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:36,720
Speaker 7: police she fell. Unfortunately for him, she had bite marks,

855
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:40,799
Speaker 7: stab wounds, and a broken neck. Okay, So I don't

856
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 7: know how you end up with a bite mark from

857
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:45,239
Speaker 7: a fall, okay. And you have to look at the

858
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:50,440
Speaker 7: entire panoply of injuries when you're assessing what happened to someone.

859
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:53,479
Speaker 7: So he's looking for quick tips on how to clean

860
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 7: up blood. Think about what he's saying, there's blood all

861
00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:57,920
Speaker 7: over the place. What's chat gpt going to tell you?

862
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 7: If there's blood all over the place, try cleaning it up?

863
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 7: You know, like this is what's going to come out

864
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:07,399
Speaker 7: of it. He's prompting chat GPT for guidance. So it's

865
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:10,839
Speaker 7: not unlike the Google searches we've seen in cases we've

866
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:14,480
Speaker 7: discussed how long does it take to die in the cold?

867
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:18,840
Speaker 7: We all remember that one from carriage, some of the

868
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:23,000
Speaker 7: other ones where we're just seeing all these So that's

869
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 7: what it is. It's a search. It's entered into by

870
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:29,399
Speaker 7: the person. You can tell what time, you can tell

871
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 7: what they were told, and it is indicative of what's

872
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:35,400
Speaker 7: going on in their mind. There's no better evidence if

873
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:38,239
Speaker 7: there's not a living witness there to tell you where

874
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 7: their head was.

875
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 4: And he knew imagine that these are going to be

876
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:43,839
Speaker 4: looked at by law enforcement. The way he's phrasing these

877
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:46,560
Speaker 4: things right, well, it's.

878
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:49,480
Speaker 7: Clear he's trying to play koy here. He's not being

879
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:53,279
Speaker 7: either that or like, I killed my girlfriend, how do

880
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:55,759
Speaker 7: I clean up the blood? He's worried might flag an

881
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:59,200
Speaker 7: FBI warrant or something. If he asks chat GPT.

882
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:01,040
Speaker 4: That, he's like, oh, they're going to look at it

883
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:03,279
Speaker 4: and be like, oh, he he was trying to help

884
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:06,279
Speaker 4: her fiance did her crazy thing. She's not waking up

885
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:08,400
Speaker 4: or responding what should I know? He was trying to

886
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:10,640
Speaker 4: help her. He's clearly not responsible.

887
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:15,280
Speaker 3: What a dummy or even the what should I put Ali?

888
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:19,320
Speaker 2: What should I tell my friend? My friend?

889
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:25,320
Speaker 3: Will someone non responsive? Yeah, it's very it's very curious.

890
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:30,239
Speaker 7: Welling himself from the situation and the explanation, but at

891
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:33,239
Speaker 7: the same time looking for guidance. It's someone who is

892
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:39,800
Speaker 7: desperately seeking some answers and trying to push any suspicion away.

893
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:43,279
Speaker 7: But it's quite poorly he's doing so I have to say,

894
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:48,360
Speaker 7: I mean, this is this is powerful evidence that coupled

895
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:51,960
Speaker 7: with her broken body, is not going to bode well.

896
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:54,720
Speaker 7: And the DA is considering the death penalty in this case.

897
00:53:54,719 --> 00:53:56,759
Speaker 7: That's how atrocious the death was.

898
00:53:58,239 --> 00:53:58,879
Speaker 2: If that's right.

899
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:02,680
Speaker 8: I was going to ask Jared a curveballly question, like,

900
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:05,840
Speaker 8: if let's pretend you were the defense how would you

901
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:08,719
Speaker 8: explain Could you explain those searches, Like is there a

902
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:10,000
Speaker 8: logical way that you could.

903
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 7: Or well, I would say he if I'm the defense attorney,

904
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:15,520
Speaker 7: I would try to explain them to say he found

905
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:20,040
Speaker 7: her this way. He's desperately seeking some direction. He doesn't

906
00:54:20,040 --> 00:54:22,759
Speaker 7: know what to do. He doesn't know should I clean

907
00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:25,000
Speaker 7: up the scenes, should I try to help her. You know,

908
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:27,879
Speaker 7: all of the things he's actually trying to do, all

909
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:30,239
Speaker 7: the things that Darren Lee was trying to do with

910
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:34,920
Speaker 7: those messages, defense would try to use them to his favor.

911
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:40,080
Speaker 7: It's just such bad evidence. Although they aren't try I

912
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:41,880
Speaker 7: don't see that carrying the day.

913
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 6: Right.

914
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:48,319
Speaker 3: When the deputies did get there, they observed what they

915
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:51,319
Speaker 3: said as evidence of a violent struggle. There was large

916
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 3: amounts of blood, There was shattered glass inside the residents

917
00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 3: that the victim and the accus shared together, and also

918
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:05,239
Speaker 3: embody can footage the accused. Darren Lee told the responding officer.

919
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 3: I came down and she was lying on the couch

920
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:11,240
Speaker 3: on her side, and then I was like, hey, baby,

921
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:13,760
Speaker 3: what do you want to eat? She wouldn't say anything,

922
00:55:14,040 --> 00:55:17,640
Speaker 3: and that's when I called nine one one immediately, body

923
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:18,359
Speaker 3: that's up.

924
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:22,920
Speaker 4: So you're telling me the deputies observed a violent struggle

925
00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 4: and a large amount of blood, right, and he came

926
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:28,320
Speaker 4: downstairs and was just like, hey, baby, what do you want?

927
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:30,759
Speaker 4: Thinking everything was fine? Are you kidding me?

928
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:34,680
Speaker 7: Here's the other thing. There's a lie there. He lied

929
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:38,320
Speaker 7: about calling nine after he found her, and.

930
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 2: Because he did his start first.

931
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:42,960
Speaker 7: And I say this and I've seen it one hundred

932
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:46,040
Speaker 7: times or a thousand times. Maybe when a loved one

933
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:49,759
Speaker 7: is dead and you're lying about little things, you got problems,

934
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:53,960
Speaker 7: Like when mister Murda lied about not being down at

935
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:59,759
Speaker 7: the kennels. I'm Mozelle, right, little lie led to basically

936
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 7: his conviction. When you're lying about little things when somebody

937
00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:07,360
Speaker 7: is dead, somebody you love, somebody you're looking to get

938
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:10,239
Speaker 7: fed that night, you're looking to get her dinner. She's

939
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:13,680
Speaker 7: on the couch. You're ignoring the smash glass, the bite marks,

940
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:17,680
Speaker 7: the broken neck, and the stab wounds. And then you say,

941
00:56:17,719 --> 00:56:20,680
Speaker 7: I immediately called nine one one. Was that before or

942
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 7: after you took the time to prompt your chat TBT

943
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:26,640
Speaker 7: repeatedly write these things, think about what to say, read

944
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:29,560
Speaker 7: the answers, and then call nine one one. That doesn't

945
00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:30,560
Speaker 7: sound immediate to.

946
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:32,839
Speaker 2: Me, exactly right.

947
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:35,080
Speaker 3: And listen, if you are just joining us, this is

948
00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:38,400
Speaker 3: true crime tonight, and we're talking about the case of

949
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:44,600
Speaker 3: former NFL linebacker Darren Lee. He's being accused of brutally

950
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:49,319
Speaker 3: murdering his living girlfriend, Gabriella Perpetuo, and we're joined by

951
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:54,479
Speaker 3: Jarrett Farantino, who is breaking down legalities. So question for you,

952
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:59,960
Speaker 3: how do do prosecutors need to do anything special or

953
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 3: specific to authenticate and introduce AI chat logs or is

954
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 3: it treated the same as text messages these days?

955
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:11,239
Speaker 7: Well, so first you got to get them the right way.

956
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:13,680
Speaker 7: So how did they get a phone where they gleaned

957
00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:17,240
Speaker 7: from a warrant? Was it a report? We all remember

958
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:21,960
Speaker 7: the cell Bright reports from again the Karen Reid case,

959
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:26,200
Speaker 7: And so if they're done that way, you may get

960
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:29,040
Speaker 7: it from your cell phone expert. And AI is new,

961
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:32,960
Speaker 7: so AI may not be as self evident to a

962
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:35,840
Speaker 7: lot of jurors. I would want to use someone who

963
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:40,440
Speaker 7: is versed in AI, but not not an academic or

964
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:44,560
Speaker 7: an egghead that's going to have a tough time explaining that. Basically, say, hey,

965
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:48,160
Speaker 7: look when you ask this thing answer questions, it gives

966
00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:53,360
Speaker 7: you answers basically, But it's an emerging technology that courts

967
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:56,840
Speaker 7: have not dealt with yet, and courts unfortunately are slow

968
00:57:57,240 --> 00:58:02,080
Speaker 7: to accept technology. So I would use Courtney somebody I

969
00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:06,400
Speaker 7: could kind of kind of suggests was an expert in

970
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:09,040
Speaker 7: AI and used in that fashion. So it may be

971
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:12,400
Speaker 7: a cell Bright person. They understand the app, they understand

972
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:17,320
Speaker 7: how it prompts things and how it will provide time

973
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:22,040
Speaker 7: stamps information when it was asked, even where you're asking

974
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:25,320
Speaker 7: the question. So it's very very powerful stuff, but you

975
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:29,040
Speaker 7: have to explain it properly. And I'm trying to think

976
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:31,640
Speaker 7: what the foundation would be, but it would be a

977
00:58:31,720 --> 00:58:33,440
Speaker 7: kin to text messages.

978
00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:36,720
Speaker 6: What Google searches maybe are shortant.

979
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:40,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, so this guy kind of has a violent criminal

980
00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:48,240
Speaker 4: pass too, write So he apparently harmed his mother and yeah,

981
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:51,920
Speaker 4: like he's not he in twenty twenty three, it is

982
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:55,919
Speaker 4: pretty recent. He allegedly assaulted his mother and the mother

983
00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:59,240
Speaker 4: of his child. And then in February of twenty twenty

984
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:03,760
Speaker 4: five he pled guilty to misdemeanor attempted assault and he

985
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:06,840
Speaker 4: was fined five hundred dollars and sentenced to two years probation.

986
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 4: So he's technically on probation, right, Well, will the jury

987
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:14,440
Speaker 4: learn of these things I'm imagining so that he's not

988
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:16,200
Speaker 4: kind of maybe violent tendencies.

989
00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:21,640
Speaker 7: No, they wouldn't necessarily learn those things. No, unless they're

990
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:25,400
Speaker 7: saying because they're so prejudicial in this case, unless they're

991
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:30,440
Speaker 7: saying he unless he says, I was defending myself against

992
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:33,439
Speaker 7: Gabrielle and if you see, she's a very slight. He's

993
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:38,040
Speaker 7: a very strong the guy's jet I mean, and she's

994
00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:44,400
Speaker 7: a slight young woman. And so no, it's too prejudicial. Again,

995
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:47,600
Speaker 7: it's not enough to have in a bank robbery prosecution

996
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:50,160
Speaker 7: just because you robbed another bank at some time in

997
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:53,200
Speaker 7: the past may not ever be known by the jury.

998
00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:57,960
Speaker 7: It's too prejudicial. So those facts would not come in

999
00:59:58,120 --> 01:00:00,720
Speaker 7: unless it's a signature crime. And we talked about in

1000
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:03,360
Speaker 7: the past, Well, the sticky bandits or the wet bandits

1001
01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:05,680
Speaker 7: on home alone. If you have a signature crime, it

1002
01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:09,560
Speaker 7: could come in. But well case, his propensity for violence

1003
01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:10,200
Speaker 7: won't come in.

1004
01:00:10,560 --> 01:00:14,640
Speaker 4: The autopsy ruled the cause of death as blunt force trauma,

1005
01:00:15,080 --> 01:00:19,440
Speaker 4: and the judge described death as especially heinous atrocious accrual

1006
01:00:19,960 --> 01:00:25,520
Speaker 4: allegedly involving torture or abuse beyond that necessary to produce death.

1007
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:28,360
Speaker 4: Is that signature because he's a violent dude.

1008
01:00:29,720 --> 01:00:32,520
Speaker 7: No, I'll tell you what that is. Those words are

1009
01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:39,480
Speaker 7: a death penalty aggravator, said, particularly the pros the atrocity

1010
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:43,840
Speaker 7: of two things. There two buzzwords, atrocity, right and heinous.

1011
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:50,480
Speaker 7: That those two are an aggravator and torture is another aggravator. Okay,

1012
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:53,080
Speaker 7: I don't know that there's torture here. Under the law,

1013
01:00:53,160 --> 01:00:56,840
Speaker 7: I've had torture cases where I've sought an aggravator in

1014
01:00:56,920 --> 01:01:01,440
Speaker 7: death in cases of torture. This is a particularly heinous crime.

1015
01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:01,680
Speaker 8: Though.

1016
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:04,880
Speaker 7: If he I hate to get this descriptive, but if

1017
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:09,120
Speaker 7: he bit her, broken right, hummeled her, that is particularly

1018
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:13,320
Speaker 7: atrocious and heinous. That may meet that criteria. If he's

1019
01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:17,560
Speaker 7: convicted and is facing death, the jury will also hear

1020
01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:20,480
Speaker 7: about those violent crimes in the past. Then they hear

1021
01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:20,880
Speaker 7: about it.

1022
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:23,560
Speaker 4: Okay, well, that makes a lot of sense because the

1023
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:26,880
Speaker 4: district attorney in this case says that she may seek

1024
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:28,840
Speaker 4: the death penalty. Now, if I'm her, I'm going to

1025
01:01:28,880 --> 01:01:31,360
Speaker 4: be jumping on the words that the judge said, right

1026
01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:35,920
Speaker 4: to those indicators, those aggravating factors right there.

1027
01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:39,040
Speaker 7: I mean, really, although the judge, if the judge said

1028
01:01:39,040 --> 01:01:42,160
Speaker 7: those things powerful, but the jury's got to be the

1029
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:47,000
Speaker 7: ones to find Yeah, particularly heinous. It was torture, and

1030
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:49,520
Speaker 7: it outweighs any mitigation in the case.

1031
01:01:50,640 --> 01:01:55,080
Speaker 2: Wow, this is so sad. This is very, very sad.

1032
01:01:55,480 --> 01:01:59,400
Speaker 4: So he's thirty one years old, he's a former NFL linebacker. Again,

1033
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:03,320
Speaker 4: he's act and you know he was drafted in the

1034
01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:05,960
Speaker 4: first round of the twenty sixteen NFL Draft, and he

1035
01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:08,360
Speaker 4: played for the New York Jets. He played for the

1036
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:11,400
Speaker 4: Kansas City Chief He won a Super Bowl ring in

1037
01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:15,280
Speaker 4: twenty nineteen, and then he played for the Buffalo Bills. Now,

1038
01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:20,479
Speaker 4: Gabriel's family has filed a fifty million dollar wrongful death

1039
01:02:20,560 --> 01:02:25,120
Speaker 4: lawsuit against him and a GoFundMe that you know It

1040
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:28,200
Speaker 4: described her as someone who was loved by so many

1041
01:02:28,640 --> 01:02:32,800
Speaker 4: and loved those around her with her whole art. The

1042
01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:35,560
Speaker 4: family described her as a people's person and she was

1043
01:02:35,680 --> 01:02:39,080
Speaker 4: studying to become an RN who loved caring for others,

1044
01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:42,440
Speaker 4: with her mother dating, we all love you. That is

1045
01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:46,400
Speaker 4: so sad, this poor thing. Jarrett. Listen, we can't thank

1046
01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:48,480
Speaker 4: you enough for sticking around. We're going to let you go.

1047
01:02:48,560 --> 01:02:51,000
Speaker 4: We're going to undo those handcuffs and take the ties

1048
01:02:51,040 --> 01:02:53,760
Speaker 4: away from you. We really appreciate it. We couldn't make

1049
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:56,640
Speaker 4: sense of any of these cases without you and anyone

1050
01:02:56,640 --> 01:02:59,080
Speaker 4: who wants more of Attorney Jarrett Farantino. You can follow

1051
01:02:59,120 --> 01:03:02,240
Speaker 4: me him on Instagram. I'm at Jarrett Farantino in pre

1052
01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:06,840
Speaker 4: order is upcoming book. It's so good, Mothers, Murders and Motivation.

1053
01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:10,040
Speaker 4: We will see you soon, Jarreed, Thank you, and keep

1054
01:03:10,080 --> 01:03:12,320
Speaker 4: it here True Crime Tonight. We're going to be getting

1055
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:14,320
Speaker 4: into everything that you've left us. Keep it right here.

1056
01:03:25,280 --> 01:03:27,880
Speaker 4: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight. We're talking true crime

1057
01:03:28,040 --> 01:03:30,120
Speaker 4: all the time. I'm body moving and I'm here with

1058
01:03:30,560 --> 01:03:34,720
Speaker 4: True Crime producer Courtney Armstrong. We have also our producer

1059
01:03:35,240 --> 01:03:37,640
Speaker 4: Taha House, and we have Sam and Adam on the board.

1060
01:03:37,680 --> 01:03:40,240
Speaker 4: We're waiting for your call eight eight, eight thirty one Crime.

1061
01:03:40,360 --> 01:03:42,880
Speaker 4: We're on five nights a week. And if you missed

1062
01:03:42,920 --> 01:03:45,760
Speaker 4: any part of tonight's show, No Sweat, you can catch

1063
01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:48,120
Speaker 4: it on the podcast. We upload it. What does it

1064
01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:50,440
Speaker 4: get up there? Maybe like around midnight or so tonight

1065
01:03:50,680 --> 01:03:53,240
Speaker 4: after the show. Listen to it anytime you want. Yep,

1066
01:03:53,360 --> 01:03:54,760
Speaker 4: exactly right, No big deal.

1067
01:03:55,320 --> 01:03:55,600
Speaker 2: Now.

1068
01:03:55,760 --> 01:03:59,160
Speaker 4: I we have been getting a lot of dms, okay,

1069
01:03:59,240 --> 01:04:02,040
Speaker 4: and I I'm kind of neglecting them. I feel like

1070
01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:04,360
Speaker 4: we've been neglecting them, and I kind of want to.

1071
01:04:04,320 --> 01:04:07,200
Speaker 2: Read a couple. Can can we do some DM action tomics?

1072
01:04:07,200 --> 01:04:10,480
Speaker 4: Are you going to give a There's nothing more that

1073
01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:12,800
Speaker 4: Taha stepped away for a minute. We took over and

1074
01:04:12,840 --> 01:04:19,520
Speaker 4: I'm made an executive decision. Executive decision that we're going

1075
01:04:19,520 --> 01:04:21,120
Speaker 4: to read a couple dms. So is it okay if

1076
01:04:21,120 --> 01:04:21,600
Speaker 4: I read it?

1077
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:22,200
Speaker 7: Yeah?

1078
01:04:22,240 --> 01:04:23,800
Speaker 6: Please, I would love it. Thank you.

1079
01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:27,560
Speaker 4: So this is from Daniella okay, and here's what it says.

1080
01:04:28,040 --> 01:04:30,680
Speaker 4: Ladies in Taha. I want to congratulate you on your

1081
01:04:30,680 --> 01:04:34,360
Speaker 4: two hundredth episode. I started listening to you in September

1082
01:04:34,880 --> 01:04:38,560
Speaker 4: on my trips to the hospital for mammograms, biopsies and

1083
01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:42,000
Speaker 4: the works. You all kept me company ever since on

1084
01:04:42,080 --> 01:04:45,040
Speaker 4: a good on good and bad days. Thank you for

1085
01:04:45,080 --> 01:04:48,640
Speaker 4: your witness, your humor, and for keeping it real. I

1086
01:04:48,720 --> 01:04:51,240
Speaker 4: recommend your podcast to everyone that I talked to and

1087
01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:54,360
Speaker 4: then she did a little happy smiley face emoji. You

1088
01:04:54,400 --> 01:04:57,360
Speaker 4: should be so proud for reaching all corners of the world,

1089
01:04:57,560 --> 01:05:02,680
Speaker 4: including my little Irish village. Keep up the good work, yes,

1090
01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:04,840
Speaker 4: I know, keep up the good work. And thank you

1091
01:05:04,880 --> 01:05:07,560
Speaker 4: for keeping my mind busy while my trips at the

1092
01:05:07,560 --> 01:05:11,720
Speaker 4: hospital are overly thankfully and are over thankfully and hopefully

1093
01:05:11,760 --> 01:05:15,000
Speaker 4: for good. You keep me company on my com commute

1094
01:05:15,160 --> 01:05:17,400
Speaker 4: to work. Love you all. I will be in San

1095
01:05:17,440 --> 01:05:19,360
Speaker 4: Francisco at the end of April and hopefully I can

1096
01:05:19,400 --> 01:05:24,160
Speaker 4: listen to you live for once. Lots of hugs from Ireland. Oh, Danielle,

1097
01:05:24,280 --> 01:05:26,919
Speaker 4: we're so glad that you're healthy. And first of all,

1098
01:05:27,640 --> 01:05:31,000
Speaker 4: we're so glad that you're done with all that, like congratulations.

1099
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:34,360
Speaker 4: That is massive, the strength that it takes to go

1100
01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:37,200
Speaker 4: through all that. I've witnessed it firsthand. My hat's off

1101
01:05:37,240 --> 01:05:38,480
Speaker 4: to you, like one percent.

1102
01:05:39,240 --> 01:05:39,720
Speaker 6: Good for you.

1103
01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:43,600
Speaker 4: And second of all, thank you for such a lovely Yeah,

1104
01:05:44,040 --> 01:05:46,640
Speaker 4: you know these cases tonight, the first one we all

1105
01:05:46,640 --> 01:05:49,440
Speaker 4: broke down. Oh my god, that first case tonight was

1106
01:05:49,480 --> 01:05:50,080
Speaker 4: so solid.

1107
01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:54,760
Speaker 6: Oh my god, it aggressively worse to me.

1108
01:05:54,960 --> 01:05:58,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, the first case, the one it was with

1109
01:05:59,000 --> 01:05:59,920
Speaker 3: the high school prank.

1110
01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:03,800
Speaker 2: It's drastically wrong and no tear, I mean.

1111
01:06:04,400 --> 01:06:06,640
Speaker 4: And so it's nice to kind of dig into the

1112
01:06:07,360 --> 01:06:13,920
Speaker 4: DM sometimes and read something positive in Irish and inspirational.

1113
01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:16,640
Speaker 4: You know, in your little Irish village. You're inspiring us

1114
01:06:17,480 --> 01:06:18,760
Speaker 4: all the way across.

1115
01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:22,720
Speaker 8: The pond, isn't it amazing? All the way from Ireland?

1116
01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:25,920
Speaker 8: So that that that excites me. And you know the

1117
01:06:25,960 --> 01:06:28,360
Speaker 8: fact that I think there's something about when people sit

1118
01:06:28,440 --> 01:06:29,360
Speaker 8: down and write a.

1119
01:06:29,360 --> 01:06:31,160
Speaker 6: DM, I do too, take the time.

1120
01:06:31,480 --> 01:06:34,480
Speaker 8: That feels like there's more energy and effort put into it.

1121
01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:36,520
Speaker 8: Not that I'm belittling anyone who leaves a talk back,

1122
01:06:36,520 --> 01:06:40,600
Speaker 8: because well, but the fact that someone sits down and

1123
01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:43,160
Speaker 8: writes that out, it just my heartstrings.

1124
01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:45,360
Speaker 4: So and listen, You're going to be in San Francisco

1125
01:06:46,120 --> 01:06:48,400
Speaker 4: and April, girl, it is so beautiful.

1126
01:06:48,600 --> 01:06:49,440
Speaker 2: I go there often.

1127
01:06:49,720 --> 01:06:49,920
Speaker 6: I go.

1128
01:06:50,040 --> 01:06:51,840
Speaker 4: I go to San Franisco, not often as I'd like,

1129
01:06:51,880 --> 01:06:54,320
Speaker 4: but I go there be four or five times a year.

1130
01:06:55,080 --> 01:06:58,480
Speaker 2: And you have to go get dumplings in Chinatown. I'm

1131
01:06:58,480 --> 01:06:58,840
Speaker 2: telling you.

1132
01:07:00,080 --> 01:07:02,120
Speaker 4: We're to the Fisherman's Wharf and get you know, the

1133
01:07:02,120 --> 01:07:05,600
Speaker 4: bread bowl with the clam chowda and go do altatrous,

1134
01:07:05,680 --> 01:07:09,000
Speaker 4: go do all that. Well, you have to go get

1135
01:07:09,080 --> 01:07:10,320
Speaker 4: dump ones into the town.

1136
01:07:10,360 --> 01:07:11,720
Speaker 2: It is a must.

1137
01:07:12,200 --> 01:07:13,120
Speaker 6: It sounds so good.

1138
01:07:13,120 --> 01:07:16,439
Speaker 8: Well you're actually I only Courtney knows this, but I'm

1139
01:07:16,600 --> 01:07:18,720
Speaker 8: not supposed to announce this now I should, but I'm

1140
01:07:18,760 --> 01:07:20,480
Speaker 8: out on Sunday because I'm actually going to be in

1141
01:07:20,480 --> 01:07:21,200
Speaker 8: San Francisco.

1142
01:07:21,720 --> 01:07:22,920
Speaker 6: So I'm writing that down.

1143
01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:25,600
Speaker 8: I know, I know this is so weird that I'm

1144
01:07:25,640 --> 01:07:28,480
Speaker 8: telling you before I've actually talked to Stephanie about it.

1145
01:07:28,520 --> 01:07:30,479
Speaker 6: Is that okay that I've teld the whole world before

1146
01:07:30,480 --> 01:07:31,720
Speaker 6: I've asked anyone else.

1147
01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:33,800
Speaker 8: But anyway, I'm going to be out Sunday because I'm

1148
01:07:33,800 --> 01:07:36,400
Speaker 8: going to San Francisco for the weekend. So I'm writing

1149
01:07:36,400 --> 01:07:39,280
Speaker 8: this down and Daniella, if I find a good place,

1150
01:07:39,600 --> 01:07:41,840
Speaker 8: I will personally write you back and tell you where

1151
01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:43,040
Speaker 8: you should be going out to eat.

1152
01:07:43,120 --> 01:07:44,760
Speaker 6: Because I love San Francisco.

1153
01:07:45,040 --> 01:07:47,959
Speaker 4: I love I bet if I could live there, I would.

1154
01:07:47,960 --> 01:07:51,200
Speaker 4: It's just so expensive. It is not my favorite city

1155
01:07:51,240 --> 01:07:54,000
Speaker 4: is on the planet. The only other thing is it

1156
01:07:54,040 --> 01:07:56,280
Speaker 4: gets a little too nippy for me sometimes. What is

1157
01:07:56,280 --> 01:08:00,280
Speaker 4: that expression? The coldest summer I've ever had is, oh.

1158
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:04,880
Speaker 3: Mark Twain, Yeah, weacter I ever had is a summer

1159
01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:05,760
Speaker 3: in San Francisco.

1160
01:08:06,720 --> 01:08:09,160
Speaker 4: Can I tell a really funny story about Francisco? Okay,

1161
01:08:09,880 --> 01:08:14,120
Speaker 4: my fiftieth birthday, Okay, San Francisco is like my favorite city.

1162
01:08:14,160 --> 01:08:14,480
Speaker 2: All right.

1163
01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:19,360
Speaker 4: So my fiftieth birthday, my friend surprised me and they're like,

1164
01:08:19,479 --> 01:08:22,280
Speaker 4: We're going to San Francisco for the day, okay. And

1165
01:08:22,320 --> 01:08:24,800
Speaker 4: I'm like, oh, oh my gosh. They're like, don't come back,

1166
01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:26,680
Speaker 4: let's just go. Right. We go to the airport, we

1167
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:29,320
Speaker 4: go to San Francisco. Now my friends had never been,

1168
01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:31,519
Speaker 4: and so we're like, let's go see the Golden Gate

1169
01:08:31,560 --> 01:08:36,559
Speaker 4: and crossing that it was so foggy that day that

1170
01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:40,120
Speaker 4: I was scared. I'm terrified of bridges, Like I'm literally

1171
01:08:40,720 --> 01:08:43,799
Speaker 4: I will I will throw up. I get so scared.

1172
01:08:44,080 --> 01:08:48,559
Speaker 8: Like yeah, So it's so funny.

1173
01:08:48,560 --> 01:08:50,240
Speaker 2: We took a picture of the Golden Gate Bridge. You

1174
01:08:50,280 --> 01:08:51,479
Speaker 2: couldn't even see it.

1175
01:08:52,080 --> 01:08:52,880
Speaker 6: The only dog.

1176
01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:55,000
Speaker 4: All you could see is the fog. But there was

1177
01:08:55,040 --> 01:08:57,759
Speaker 4: this one tiny piece of the leg you could see.

1178
01:08:58,200 --> 01:09:00,439
Speaker 4: So I coasted it to my stories and I circled

1179
01:09:00,439 --> 01:09:01,720
Speaker 4: it and I was like, my friends.

1180
01:09:03,160 --> 01:09:05,400
Speaker 6: It's there. I swear it is my fiftieth birthday.

1181
01:09:05,880 --> 01:09:07,200
Speaker 2: Anyway, it was the funniest thing.

1182
01:09:07,240 --> 01:09:10,360
Speaker 4: And then we get on the plane and something was

1183
01:09:10,400 --> 01:09:13,519
Speaker 4: wrong because the only thing it kept going.

1184
01:09:13,439 --> 01:09:15,360
Speaker 2: Deep deep.

1185
01:09:17,040 --> 01:09:18,280
Speaker 6: The plane was making.

1186
01:09:18,080 --> 01:09:21,680
Speaker 4: This your flight, Yes, the entire flight. Oh, I was

1187
01:09:21,720 --> 01:09:24,640
Speaker 4: like hysterical, like what's happening. I'm gonna die, it's my

1188
01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:25,559
Speaker 4: fiftieth birthday?

1189
01:09:25,640 --> 01:09:26,360
Speaker 6: Oh God?

1190
01:09:26,960 --> 01:09:31,559
Speaker 4: Okay, moving on, but anyway, I digest I'm kind of

1191
01:09:31,560 --> 01:09:32,439
Speaker 4: going off on a tangent.

1192
01:09:32,479 --> 01:09:32,599
Speaker 6: Now.

1193
01:09:33,080 --> 01:09:34,400
Speaker 2: Anyway, what love Sanrlesco.

1194
01:09:34,439 --> 01:09:35,320
Speaker 4: You're going to have a good time.

1195
01:09:35,640 --> 01:09:37,439
Speaker 8: I know that's a good one and a day it

1196
01:09:37,680 --> 01:09:39,040
Speaker 8: just fly down to San Francisco.

1197
01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:41,519
Speaker 4: So yeah, we went to the Golden Gate and we

1198
01:09:41,560 --> 01:09:44,000
Speaker 4: went We just like walked around the warf all day

1199
01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:46,679
Speaker 4: and you know, I played tourist.

1200
01:09:46,760 --> 01:09:47,479
Speaker 2: It was a lot of fun.

1201
01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:48,639
Speaker 6: I love it.

1202
01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:51,960
Speaker 8: Well, I'll be thinking of you as I have dumplings

1203
01:09:51,960 --> 01:09:52,680
Speaker 8: in Chinatown.

1204
01:09:52,840 --> 01:09:55,040
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you cannot go wrong.

1205
01:09:55,320 --> 01:09:57,800
Speaker 4: But had Christmas dinner at the Fairmont.

1206
01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:00,879
Speaker 6: Oh fancy that sounds fabulous.

1207
01:10:01,120 --> 01:10:07,639
Speaker 4: And I broke Indy's vintage umbrella. I was mortified. Anyway,

1208
01:10:07,880 --> 01:10:11,639
Speaker 4: I dig, Okay, what else? What else is all about?

1209
01:10:12,160 --> 01:10:14,799
Speaker 8: Do you want to I think there was a dm

1210
01:10:14,840 --> 01:10:16,799
Speaker 8: that you were gonna that you came across Courtney.

1211
01:10:16,840 --> 01:10:17,920
Speaker 6: Did you want to know that one?

1212
01:10:17,920 --> 01:10:21,160
Speaker 2: For Yes, it's a suggestion from Debbie.

1213
01:10:22,320 --> 01:10:25,879
Speaker 3: Debbie says, Hi, guys, you guys really need to watch

1214
01:10:26,560 --> 01:10:31,280
Speaker 3: friends like these The Skylar Niece murder. So it's a

1215
01:10:31,400 --> 01:10:34,240
Speaker 3: suggestion for true crime and chill. It is on Hulu.

1216
01:10:34,360 --> 01:10:37,559
Speaker 3: It's so good and IOD love you guys, and Debbie,

1217
01:10:37,560 --> 01:10:39,559
Speaker 3: we love you too for writing in.

1218
01:10:39,960 --> 01:10:40,480
Speaker 11: Yeah.

1219
01:10:41,439 --> 01:10:41,800
Speaker 4: I don't know.

1220
01:10:41,840 --> 01:10:43,479
Speaker 2: I think that's.

1221
01:10:43,120 --> 01:10:46,160
Speaker 6: Such annoy thing about this one. I'm not familiar with

1222
01:10:46,160 --> 01:10:47,160
Speaker 6: Skyle mean neither.

1223
01:10:47,760 --> 01:10:48,920
Speaker 2: The Skylar Niece.

1224
01:10:49,680 --> 01:10:53,160
Speaker 3: She was a sixteen year old girl and she disappeared

1225
01:10:53,160 --> 01:10:57,160
Speaker 3: from her home in West Virginia back in twenty twelve

1226
01:10:58,000 --> 01:11:04,719
Speaker 3: and her body was very sadly found across state lines nearby.

1227
01:11:05,439 --> 01:11:08,760
Speaker 3: And it turns out that niece was murdered by two

1228
01:11:08,880 --> 01:11:12,599
Speaker 3: of her high school best friends, Sheila Eddie and Rachel Show.

1229
01:11:13,680 --> 01:11:15,360
Speaker 6: Oh no, why oh.

1230
01:11:15,520 --> 01:11:17,200
Speaker 2: You guys don't know this case.

1231
01:11:17,560 --> 01:11:18,479
Speaker 6: I don't know familiar.

1232
01:11:18,680 --> 01:11:19,400
Speaker 2: I never heard of it.

1233
01:11:20,160 --> 01:11:21,960
Speaker 4: There's a lot of cases I don't know about.

1234
01:11:22,360 --> 01:11:24,439
Speaker 2: Well, of course, it's a big it's a big universe.

1235
01:11:28,400 --> 01:11:31,280
Speaker 8: I'd love to look into that. And and definitely, you know,

1236
01:11:31,680 --> 01:11:33,439
Speaker 8: true crime and chill. We we are going to talk

1237
01:11:33,439 --> 01:11:35,559
Speaker 8: about some other options because that came up with Ava,

1238
01:11:35,920 --> 01:11:37,160
Speaker 8: but this is a good one.

1239
01:11:37,360 --> 01:11:39,639
Speaker 3: But if yeah, even if it's not a true crime

1240
01:11:39,640 --> 01:11:42,160
Speaker 3: and chill, but I will I will definitely watch it.

1241
01:11:42,240 --> 01:11:43,320
Speaker 2: And I just think it's.

1242
01:11:44,880 --> 01:11:48,920
Speaker 3: It's a it's an it's an interesting it's an interesting case,

1243
01:11:48,960 --> 01:11:50,519
Speaker 3: so regardless, we should cover it.

1244
01:11:50,560 --> 01:11:54,040
Speaker 2: So thank you for I'm love sending it that way.

1245
01:11:54,800 --> 01:11:56,680
Speaker 8: And it's funny body you're saying, there's a lot of

1246
01:11:56,720 --> 01:11:59,599
Speaker 8: cases that you don't know about. And sometimes we get

1247
01:11:59,640 --> 01:12:02,960
Speaker 8: some congestions from people, and we have one that came

1248
01:12:03,000 --> 01:12:05,559
Speaker 8: in today. So let me know if you know this

1249
01:12:05,640 --> 01:12:08,639
Speaker 8: case Adam, can you hit that one for us? Okay,

1250
01:12:08,680 --> 01:12:09,160
Speaker 8: We're Sam.

1251
01:12:09,160 --> 01:12:13,360
Speaker 10: Sorry, Hi ladies, sister from Edmonton, Canada. I just need

1252
01:12:13,360 --> 01:12:15,160
Speaker 10: to take a break from work recently. I'm a court

1253
01:12:15,200 --> 01:12:17,360
Speaker 10: reporter and it's been super busy years, so i haven't

1254
01:12:17,400 --> 01:12:19,040
Speaker 10: been able to listen to you guys as much as

1255
01:12:19,080 --> 01:12:20,760
Speaker 10: I've been wanting to. So I'm not sure if you

1256
01:12:20,840 --> 01:12:23,360
Speaker 10: cover this already or not, but I'm wondering if you

1257
01:12:23,439 --> 01:12:26,920
Speaker 10: heard about the BC shooting and the ties that that

1258
01:12:27,160 --> 01:12:29,880
Speaker 10: had to Chat GBT and how it's like kind of

1259
01:12:29,960 --> 01:12:33,560
Speaker 10: changing the regulations. Anyways, Thank you, bye, love you guys.

1260
01:12:34,040 --> 01:12:36,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, I did hear about this, Yeah, I mean we

1261
01:12:36,960 --> 01:12:39,120
Speaker 4: were on air when it happened. I think we have

1262
01:12:39,880 --> 01:12:43,280
Speaker 4: broke We broke the show with the news because it

1263
01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:49,000
Speaker 4: was such an a strange thing to happen in Canada,

1264
01:12:49,120 --> 01:12:52,400
Speaker 4: you know, and it was so tragic it happened in

1265
01:12:52,840 --> 01:12:57,040
Speaker 4: tumblr Ridge, British Columbia, and it's really sparking this debate

1266
01:12:57,120 --> 01:13:02,360
Speaker 4: now about AI right. Investigators found out that the gunman

1267
01:13:02,400 --> 01:13:07,000
Speaker 4: had previously been flagged by Open AI and Chat GPT

1268
01:13:07,320 --> 01:13:11,639
Speaker 4: for their safety systems. It triggered some safety systems because

1269
01:13:11,720 --> 01:13:14,280
Speaker 4: the gunman was having its violent conversation.

1270
01:13:14,439 --> 01:13:17,120
Speaker 2: Excuse me, it was a woman. Actually, oh was it?

1271
01:13:17,160 --> 01:13:22,519
Speaker 2: Okayd my bad? Oh, my goodness. I didn't know that. So, yeah,

1272
01:13:22,520 --> 01:13:24,960
Speaker 2: this woman. But you're exactly right, go on that chat GPT.

1273
01:13:25,240 --> 01:13:28,000
Speaker 2: It was absolutely flagged. Go ahead, please. Yeah.

1274
01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:31,600
Speaker 4: So eight people were killed, right, And this happened on

1275
01:13:31,600 --> 01:13:34,440
Speaker 4: February tenth, right before.

1276
01:13:34,160 --> 01:13:35,680
Speaker 2: The suspect died by suicide.

1277
01:13:35,720 --> 01:13:38,479
Speaker 4: And now the families of the victims are suing open ai,

1278
01:13:39,280 --> 01:13:42,479
Speaker 4: arguing that the company should have alerted authorities about the

1279
01:13:42,520 --> 01:13:45,840
Speaker 4: warning signs. And the only reason I even know about

1280
01:13:45,840 --> 01:13:49,720
Speaker 4: this is I read an article that open ai debated.

1281
01:13:50,439 --> 01:13:51,080
Speaker 2: Is that true?

1282
01:13:51,320 --> 01:13:57,759
Speaker 4: They did? Yeah, they weren't sure if they should flag

1283
01:13:57,840 --> 01:13:58,840
Speaker 4: it with the authorities.

1284
01:13:58,960 --> 01:14:04,720
Speaker 2: Oh that's my understanding. Yeah, report said they do know.

1285
01:14:04,920 --> 01:14:10,240
Speaker 3: Several employees they did absolutely internally debate. They ultimately decided

1286
01:14:10,439 --> 01:14:13,519
Speaker 3: that the activity didn't meet the threshold for reporting a

1287
01:14:13,600 --> 01:14:15,759
Speaker 3: credible or imminent threat to police.

1288
01:14:16,640 --> 01:14:19,720
Speaker 2: Right, but clearly, you know.

1289
01:14:19,680 --> 01:14:23,439
Speaker 4: It's an interesting do you guys remember that cop It

1290
01:14:23,479 --> 01:14:26,160
Speaker 4: was in New York and it happened maybe in the

1291
01:14:26,160 --> 01:14:32,200
Speaker 4: mid two thousands, and they were talking online about wanting

1292
01:14:32,240 --> 01:14:35,639
Speaker 4: to kidnap people, like they had this fantasy. But they

1293
01:14:35,680 --> 01:14:38,800
Speaker 4: never did, but they were going they were talking about it,

1294
01:14:39,439 --> 01:14:45,519
Speaker 4: and it brings up thought The idea is the thought police,

1295
01:14:45,800 --> 01:14:53,320
Speaker 4: right thoughts of doing does that mean you know? And

1296
01:14:53,560 --> 01:14:57,320
Speaker 4: quite frankly I experienced this with Luca, you know, like

1297
01:14:57,720 --> 01:14:59,960
Speaker 4: because he was threatening to kill people, but he did

1298
01:15:00,040 --> 01:15:02,639
Speaker 4: and yet at the time, right and when we were

1299
01:15:02,680 --> 01:15:05,400
Speaker 4: talking with the police in like Montreal and whatnot, like

1300
01:15:06,840 --> 01:15:09,400
Speaker 4: you get into those ideas about like the thought police,

1301
01:15:09,439 --> 01:15:11,759
Speaker 4: like just saying that you want to do something doesn't

1302
01:15:11,760 --> 01:15:14,920
Speaker 4: necessarily mean you know, like I don't know. It's an

1303
01:15:14,920 --> 01:15:19,000
Speaker 4: interesting it's almost like a psych It's yeah, I don't

1304
01:15:19,120 --> 01:15:22,080
Speaker 4: I don't know the legalities or the law, you know nothing,

1305
01:15:22,720 --> 01:15:27,040
Speaker 4: But it brings up an interesting like philosophical idea like

1306
01:15:28,040 --> 01:15:32,479
Speaker 4: can you can you prosecute somebody for having thoughts? And

1307
01:15:32,760 --> 01:15:37,120
Speaker 4: when you're talking to AI and you're having violent conversations,

1308
01:15:37,160 --> 01:15:38,040
Speaker 4: are they just thoughts?

1309
01:15:38,320 --> 01:15:38,760
Speaker 2: I don't know?

1310
01:15:39,160 --> 01:15:42,439
Speaker 8: Or maybe not even prosecute, but at least investigate, like

1311
01:15:42,439 --> 01:15:44,400
Speaker 8: I'd be curious as to what their threshold is.

1312
01:15:44,560 --> 01:15:45,840
Speaker 6: That's true, and that.

1313
01:15:46,000 --> 01:15:47,680
Speaker 4: Like when we were dealing with Luca, that was the

1314
01:15:47,760 --> 01:15:49,840
Speaker 4: idea was like listen, we don't want you to arrest him.

1315
01:15:49,880 --> 01:15:51,679
Speaker 4: We just want somebody to knock on his door because

1316
01:15:51,760 --> 01:15:54,080
Speaker 4: we think something's wrong with him, you know, like he's

1317
01:15:54,120 --> 01:15:57,120
Speaker 4: not okay. You know, you need some mental health treatment

1318
01:15:57,240 --> 01:16:00,160
Speaker 4: or something like, can you know maybe a not on

1319
01:16:00,160 --> 01:16:01,679
Speaker 4: the door or does that make it worse?

1320
01:16:03,400 --> 01:16:03,720
Speaker 3: I don't know.

1321
01:16:05,200 --> 01:16:07,720
Speaker 8: People on the other side of the fencaying like, how

1322
01:16:08,160 --> 01:16:10,840
Speaker 8: you know, how dare you violate my privacy? I'm looking

1323
01:16:10,880 --> 01:16:14,360
Speaker 8: at this, like I say, even I use chat GPT

1324
01:16:14,520 --> 01:16:18,280
Speaker 8: often for our show and always flag because of our

1325
01:16:18,320 --> 01:16:20,120
Speaker 8: topics that we do, so a lot of times it'll

1326
01:16:20,120 --> 01:16:22,920
Speaker 8: say like, I know, I'm kind of nervous about like

1327
01:16:24,040 --> 01:16:27,080
Speaker 8: this guy's always looking up dead people and murders.

1328
01:16:27,240 --> 01:16:27,960
Speaker 6: It's up with him.

1329
01:16:28,000 --> 01:16:33,280
Speaker 8: So so on that side, you don't, I just find

1330
01:16:33,320 --> 01:16:35,120
Speaker 8: it kind of a quick.

1331
01:16:34,960 --> 01:16:38,479
Speaker 4: It's really bad for the environment. It's really bad for

1332
01:16:38,560 --> 01:16:39,120
Speaker 4: the environment.

1333
01:16:39,520 --> 01:16:42,400
Speaker 8: So I have a relative saying that that it's bad

1334
01:16:42,439 --> 01:16:45,040
Speaker 8: for the environment. It also slows down your brain and

1335
01:16:45,160 --> 01:16:47,920
Speaker 8: thinking process. And I heard all the negatives. But then

1336
01:16:48,000 --> 01:16:51,040
Speaker 8: when I just want a quick recipe for spaghetti sauce.

1337
01:16:50,840 --> 01:16:52,240
Speaker 2: Well yeah I can.

1338
01:16:52,320 --> 01:16:55,440
Speaker 4: I can under say that, but I would discourage humanity

1339
01:16:56,280 --> 01:17:00,840
Speaker 4: from using AI for every query. You know that you have,

1340
01:17:00,960 --> 01:17:03,559
Speaker 4: you know what I mean, use your brain a little

1341
01:17:03,560 --> 01:17:05,920
Speaker 4: bit more. But yeah, no, I anyway, I'm kind of

1342
01:17:05,920 --> 01:17:08,840
Speaker 4: getting off on another tangent again, but yeah, no, this

1343
01:17:08,880 --> 01:17:13,840
Speaker 4: tumbler Ridge thing was really sad. The families have you know, now,

1344
01:17:13,880 --> 01:17:17,679
Speaker 4: filed lawsuits with open Aye, arguing that the company should

1345
01:17:17,720 --> 01:17:22,120
Speaker 4: have warned authorities and that earlier intervention might have prevented

1346
01:17:22,160 --> 01:17:25,760
Speaker 4: the tragedy, right, and I kind of agree. I kind

1347
01:17:25,760 --> 01:17:30,519
Speaker 4: of be like, you're not asking the police to arrest

1348
01:17:30,640 --> 01:17:33,000
Speaker 4: the person making these queries, you're asking them to go.

1349
01:17:33,640 --> 01:17:36,519
Speaker 4: You're asking the police to investigate it. But is that

1350
01:17:36,600 --> 01:17:37,880
Speaker 4: a violation of privacy?

1351
01:17:38,160 --> 01:17:38,400
Speaker 2: Well?

1352
01:17:38,760 --> 01:17:41,559
Speaker 3: Actually, you know what this is actually someone I've wanted

1353
01:17:41,600 --> 01:17:45,960
Speaker 3: to have on. We'll have to ask him, but it's

1354
01:17:45,960 --> 01:17:49,479
Speaker 3: a guy named David Ryan. He was a prosecutor for

1355
01:17:49,680 --> 01:17:56,080
Speaker 3: the California Federal I'm messing it up, but he does

1356
01:17:56,200 --> 01:18:00,760
Speaker 3: high level investigations into internet crimes and we reviewed him

1357
01:18:00,960 --> 01:18:08,000
Speaker 3: for insight and so yes, and he's incredibly knowledgeable about

1358
01:18:08,240 --> 01:18:11,559
Speaker 3: sort of what the line legally is.

1359
01:18:12,200 --> 01:18:13,480
Speaker 2: I would love to talk.

1360
01:18:13,680 --> 01:18:18,160
Speaker 3: About, yeah, because because I had questions, you know, when

1361
01:18:18,280 --> 01:18:21,120
Speaker 3: do when does a plan? When is it a plan

1362
01:18:21,439 --> 01:18:25,599
Speaker 3: versus a thought? And and it's really it's important stuff.

1363
01:18:26,120 --> 01:18:31,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a really important question because it's a fine line, right, it's.

1364
01:18:31,040 --> 01:18:33,200
Speaker 2: A fine it's a fine line.

1365
01:18:33,439 --> 01:18:33,639
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1366
01:18:34,160 --> 01:18:36,000
Speaker 2: I think he would be a great guest. I would

1367
01:18:36,040 --> 01:18:36,720
Speaker 2: love to talk to him.

1368
01:18:36,760 --> 01:18:38,200
Speaker 4: You know, my thing is the Internet is the new

1369
01:18:38,240 --> 01:18:39,599
Speaker 4: crime scene.

1370
01:18:41,400 --> 01:18:43,200
Speaker 2: I would love to talk to that guy.

1371
01:18:43,360 --> 01:18:48,559
Speaker 6: Like, Yeah, you'll have to connect you with that one.

1372
01:18:48,760 --> 01:18:51,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, stick around, we have more to dig into.

1373
01:18:51,320 --> 01:18:53,320
Speaker 4: We're going to get into some of your talk backs now.

1374
01:18:53,720 --> 01:18:55,720
Speaker 4: With all the questions and comments you have for us,

1375
01:18:55,800 --> 01:19:05,600
Speaker 4: keep it right here True Crime Tonight.

1376
01:19:09,040 --> 01:19:12,439
Speaker 3: Welcome back to True Him Tonight on iHeartRadio. We talk

1377
01:19:12,479 --> 01:19:15,599
Speaker 3: true crime all the time. I'm Courtney Armstrong here with

1378
01:19:15,640 --> 01:19:21,719
Speaker 3: my buddy buddy. Move in, ooh, there she is, and listen.

1379
01:19:21,760 --> 01:19:23,840
Speaker 3: If you missed any part of the show, catch us

1380
01:19:23,920 --> 01:19:26,720
Speaker 3: on the podcast, and you can also always reach out

1381
01:19:26,800 --> 01:19:27,840
Speaker 3: leave us a talkback.

1382
01:19:28,320 --> 01:19:29,639
Speaker 2: Go to the iHeart Radio app.

1383
01:19:29,680 --> 01:19:33,000
Speaker 3: It's in the upper right hand corner, a little red microphone.

1384
01:19:33,360 --> 01:19:36,240
Speaker 3: You press that button, you leave a little voicemail and boom,

1385
01:19:36,280 --> 01:19:42,800
Speaker 3: you are on the show. Let's get back into some talkbacks.

1386
01:19:42,200 --> 01:19:42,879
Speaker 6: Hey, ladies.

1387
01:19:43,280 --> 01:19:46,720
Speaker 9: In terms of the identifying whether your drink has been

1388
01:19:46,800 --> 01:19:49,040
Speaker 9: drugged or not, you can buy strips of the chemists

1389
01:19:49,080 --> 01:19:51,320
Speaker 9: here in Australia, so I'm assuming that you guys would

1390
01:19:51,360 --> 01:19:53,680
Speaker 9: be able to get them over there as well. They

1391
01:19:53,720 --> 01:19:56,400
Speaker 9: pick up most common drugs if you want to be

1392
01:19:56,439 --> 01:20:00,240
Speaker 9: a little bit more surreptitious. There are some MSU chigin

1393
01:20:00,280 --> 01:20:03,400
Speaker 9: State University graduates who have recently come up with color

1394
01:20:03,479 --> 01:20:07,400
Speaker 9: changing straws. Did that have come out to prevent drink spiking?

1395
01:20:08,840 --> 01:20:09,559
Speaker 2: Well, straws?

1396
01:20:09,800 --> 01:20:12,200
Speaker 8: Color changing straws is brilliant.

1397
01:20:12,400 --> 01:20:15,600
Speaker 3: M mesu. I okay, we absolutely. I would love to

1398
01:20:15,920 --> 01:20:17,240
Speaker 3: look into that.

1399
01:20:17,240 --> 01:20:19,400
Speaker 4: That is, like, if they really work, I wouldn't even

1400
01:20:19,439 --> 01:20:23,160
Speaker 4: mind promoting it, Yes, exactly, you know, for when we're

1401
01:20:23,200 --> 01:20:26,479
Speaker 4: all about safety and protecting women and even men too.

1402
01:20:26,640 --> 01:20:28,839
Speaker 2: You know, men can be victims.

1403
01:20:29,160 --> 01:20:31,840
Speaker 3: Do you know a men can be victims and be

1404
01:20:32,080 --> 01:20:37,719
Speaker 3: We were lauding bartenders as a potential backup and listen,

1405
01:20:37,800 --> 01:20:41,639
Speaker 3: that is ninety nine point nine nine going to be true.

1406
01:20:41,760 --> 01:20:43,960
Speaker 2: But I'll give you a one personal story.

1407
01:20:44,479 --> 01:20:47,280
Speaker 3: I was at a club with my boyfriend at the time,

1408
01:20:47,439 --> 01:20:51,320
Speaker 3: long time ago in Hollywood and big six foot four guy.

1409
01:20:52,040 --> 01:20:54,320
Speaker 2: We each got we ordered our drinks.

1410
01:20:54,439 --> 01:20:57,280
Speaker 3: I ordered my usual usual, you know, like bourbon on

1411
01:20:57,320 --> 01:20:59,559
Speaker 3: the rocks, and he got something that was more of

1412
01:20:59,560 --> 01:21:03,240
Speaker 3: a stereo typical girly drink, got our drinks. They put

1413
01:21:03,280 --> 01:21:06,519
Speaker 3: him down, uh, incorrectly, in front of us. We switched

1414
01:21:06,560 --> 01:21:11,840
Speaker 3: our drinks. My boyfriend had his one drink and I

1415
01:21:11,960 --> 01:21:14,479
Speaker 3: had to have someone help me carry him.

1416
01:21:14,280 --> 01:21:18,120
Speaker 6: To car the girly drink because they thought it was

1417
01:21:18,160 --> 01:21:18,479
Speaker 6: for you.

1418
01:21:19,360 --> 01:21:25,639
Speaker 4: Wait a minute, did you did you? Did he leave

1419
01:21:25,840 --> 01:21:28,200
Speaker 4: like sight of his drink or something, or did it

1420
01:21:28,200 --> 01:21:28,880
Speaker 4: come that way?

1421
01:21:31,160 --> 01:21:33,880
Speaker 2: I believe it came that way. Okay, let me tell

1422
01:21:33,880 --> 01:21:35,519
Speaker 2: you something. Was it in West Hollywood?

1423
01:21:36,479 --> 01:21:37,519
Speaker 6: You know where you're going with this.

1424
01:21:38,040 --> 01:21:39,600
Speaker 4: I know I remember what this, don't you?

1425
01:21:39,960 --> 01:21:40,160
Speaker 6: It was?

1426
01:21:40,280 --> 01:21:41,679
Speaker 2: It was so long ago.

1427
01:21:42,160 --> 01:21:46,679
Speaker 4: There was a club right to that was accused, yes,

1428
01:21:46,840 --> 01:21:51,000
Speaker 4: the Abbey that was accused of doing this.

1429
01:21:50,960 --> 01:21:55,080
Speaker 8: To their customers, and and supposedly it was people that

1430
01:21:55,160 --> 01:21:59,040
Speaker 8: actually worked at they established involved with it, and they're

1431
01:21:59,080 --> 01:21:59,840
Speaker 8: back in the news.

1432
01:22:00,080 --> 01:22:00,559
Speaker 6: Recently.

1433
01:22:00,960 --> 01:22:04,599
Speaker 8: It's come up again because Lisa Renna, who was on

1434
01:22:05,479 --> 01:22:09,320
Speaker 8: The Traders, she was at an event there and she

1435
01:22:09,400 --> 01:22:12,240
Speaker 8: said she thought someone roofied her drink or something. So

1436
01:22:12,320 --> 01:22:14,439
Speaker 8: there's something where she said recently like she thinks she

1437
01:22:14,560 --> 01:22:15,920
Speaker 8: was you know, roofie.

1438
01:22:16,520 --> 01:22:17,800
Speaker 6: Be happy.

1439
01:22:18,120 --> 01:22:21,559
Speaker 8: It's it's it's frightening, and so many people actually I

1440
01:22:21,720 --> 01:22:24,720
Speaker 8: followed like some people that posted things about on Instagram,

1441
01:22:24,920 --> 01:22:27,240
Speaker 8: and a lot of people were saying in the comments.

1442
01:22:26,880 --> 01:22:29,920
Speaker 6: That happened to me, like a lot of different people.

1443
01:22:30,400 --> 01:22:30,920
Speaker 7: It's a freak.

1444
01:22:31,520 --> 01:22:33,800
Speaker 4: It was like they didn't they get shut down for

1445
01:22:33,840 --> 01:22:34,519
Speaker 4: it or something.

1446
01:22:36,240 --> 01:22:38,519
Speaker 6: I don't recall them ever actually shutting down.

1447
01:22:38,600 --> 01:22:40,600
Speaker 8: I know there was a lot of undercover police that

1448
01:22:40,680 --> 01:22:44,120
Speaker 8: then being there to try to I think it's changed

1449
01:22:44,160 --> 01:22:48,479
Speaker 8: hands since then there's a new owner. So but yeah,

1450
01:22:48,520 --> 01:22:51,240
Speaker 8: it's it's it's a common thing more so than you

1451
01:22:51,240 --> 01:22:52,479
Speaker 8: would think, more.

1452
01:22:52,360 --> 01:22:55,680
Speaker 4: So than you would think, right, yeah, so maybe maybe

1453
01:22:55,880 --> 01:22:58,600
Speaker 4: he Oh my god, so you think that they you

1454
01:22:58,640 --> 01:23:00,320
Speaker 4: were the target? Of course.

1455
01:23:00,520 --> 01:23:03,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, well that's what we both kind of thought, just

1456
01:23:03,120 --> 01:23:06,599
Speaker 3: because again you know that they literally put our drinks

1457
01:23:06,640 --> 01:23:09,160
Speaker 3: down in front of the wrong person.

1458
01:23:10,280 --> 01:23:12,400
Speaker 4: We're going to have to look into these straws and

1459
01:23:12,439 --> 01:23:14,479
Speaker 4: these test strips, because that's what I was thinking, like

1460
01:23:15,400 --> 01:23:19,240
Speaker 4: they have test trips for like fentanyl. You know, I

1461
01:23:19,280 --> 01:23:21,120
Speaker 4: know you guys know this, but my one of my

1462
01:23:21,120 --> 01:23:25,280
Speaker 4: best friends, we lost her daughter to an accidental general

1463
01:23:26,000 --> 01:23:28,120
Speaker 4: a couple of years ago. She was only like twenty

1464
01:23:28,160 --> 01:23:32,719
Speaker 4: years old, and they make these test kits now for

1465
01:23:33,120 --> 01:23:37,000
Speaker 4: you know, testing pills. And I was thinking, I was

1466
01:23:37,000 --> 01:23:40,719
Speaker 4: singing about her last night actually after the show, and

1467
01:23:41,120 --> 01:23:43,080
Speaker 4: I was singing, They've got to have test trips for

1468
01:23:43,560 --> 01:23:45,719
Speaker 4: other kinds of things that you could put into your drink.

1469
01:23:45,640 --> 01:23:50,040
Speaker 8: Right, it seems it seems so logical, and because it's

1470
01:23:50,880 --> 01:23:52,240
Speaker 8: that if.

1471
01:23:52,080 --> 01:23:54,680
Speaker 4: You're with somebody who's going to be offended by you

1472
01:23:54,760 --> 01:23:56,040
Speaker 4: doing that, you don't want to.

1473
01:23:56,160 --> 01:23:57,600
Speaker 2: You need to be with them. You need to be

1474
01:23:57,640 --> 01:23:59,799
Speaker 2: with somebody who's going to support you doing.

1475
01:24:00,040 --> 01:24:04,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know you, yeah, I agree with that.

1476
01:24:05,240 --> 01:24:09,679
Speaker 3: This is a this isn't aside, but something I did buy.

1477
01:24:11,040 --> 01:24:14,759
Speaker 3: There's actually test strips for alcohol where you can test

1478
01:24:14,840 --> 01:24:20,719
Speaker 3: your breast milk because yeah, to see if your blood

1479
01:24:20,760 --> 01:24:23,240
Speaker 3: alcohol level is uh.

1480
01:24:22,880 --> 01:24:23,839
Speaker 6: Well wait, I'm confused.

1481
01:24:23,880 --> 01:24:26,800
Speaker 8: I thought you weren't supposed to drink when you're breastfeeding.

1482
01:24:26,920 --> 01:24:27,720
Speaker 6: Isn't that the rule of.

1483
01:24:27,960 --> 01:24:32,240
Speaker 3: Well no, you're no, no, no, it hasn't changed you.

1484
01:24:32,960 --> 01:24:35,599
Speaker 3: That's why people there's a phrase pump and dump. I

1485
01:24:35,640 --> 01:24:37,320
Speaker 3: can't imagine what kind of calls I'm going to get.

1486
01:24:37,320 --> 01:24:38,080
Speaker 2: I was not like.

1487
01:24:38,479 --> 01:24:42,000
Speaker 3: Perusing like crazy, actually bought them, never ends up using them.

1488
01:24:42,040 --> 01:24:44,800
Speaker 2: But if you've had like a you know, new mother.

1489
01:24:45,040 --> 01:24:47,280
Speaker 3: I would have like a glass of wine at dinner

1490
01:24:47,400 --> 01:24:51,000
Speaker 3: or something and be like, I feed the baby. But

1491
01:24:51,120 --> 01:24:53,479
Speaker 3: anyway that you can, you can test lots of things

1492
01:24:53,479 --> 01:24:54,640
Speaker 3: with lots of strips.

1493
01:24:55,120 --> 01:24:56,360
Speaker 2: Oah, that makes sense to me.

1494
01:24:56,439 --> 01:24:58,320
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, no, it was just it was a

1495
01:24:58,400 --> 01:25:01,720
Speaker 3: comfort for again, a new worse. You know, you get

1496
01:25:01,760 --> 01:25:05,280
Speaker 3: so worried, that can get so paranoid. Sip of anything

1497
01:25:05,360 --> 01:25:06,200
Speaker 3: and you're still a.

1498
01:25:06,240 --> 01:25:09,040
Speaker 2: Human being, you know, just because your mother a.

1499
01:25:09,040 --> 01:25:10,080
Speaker 4: New you know.

1500
01:25:11,000 --> 01:25:13,880
Speaker 8: But yeah, I think in Europe and other parts of

1501
01:25:13,920 --> 01:25:15,719
Speaker 8: the world, people drink anyway.

1502
01:25:15,800 --> 01:25:16,439
Speaker 6: That's all nice.

1503
01:25:16,479 --> 01:25:17,080
Speaker 2: Yes, they too.

1504
01:25:17,320 --> 01:25:19,840
Speaker 4: I'm pretty sure I have a picture of my mom

1505
01:25:19,920 --> 01:25:22,360
Speaker 4: drinking like a red, white and blue beer while she

1506
01:25:22,479 --> 01:25:23,519
Speaker 4: was breastfeeding with me.

1507
01:25:24,240 --> 01:25:28,280
Speaker 3: I'm pretty positive that's a fact because my aunt of

1508
01:25:28,320 --> 01:25:31,080
Speaker 3: them pregnant with you know, having a.

1509
01:25:31,040 --> 01:25:35,240
Speaker 4: Cigarette a small hunder, for sure.

1510
01:25:34,880 --> 01:25:37,599
Speaker 8: I'm sure that there's something in the in the car

1511
01:25:37,680 --> 01:25:41,599
Speaker 8: with no seatbelts on, spoken a cigarette, Yeah, in.

1512
01:25:41,600 --> 01:25:45,320
Speaker 2: The station wagon in the back. Yeah.

1513
01:25:44,920 --> 01:25:51,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, nine kids alive, honestly, all of us, all of us.

1514
01:25:53,360 --> 01:25:54,599
Speaker 2: All right, let's do another talkback.

1515
01:25:55,200 --> 01:25:58,599
Speaker 5: Good morning everyone. This is Alicia from New Jersey. I

1516
01:25:58,640 --> 01:26:01,320
Speaker 5: listened to the show State live for the first time,

1517
01:26:02,080 --> 01:26:04,840
Speaker 5: so that was fun. And I'm feeling a little out

1518
01:26:04,880 --> 01:26:07,519
Speaker 5: of routine this morning because it's always the first thing

1519
01:26:07,520 --> 01:26:11,160
Speaker 5: I do after the kids get off to school. I

1520
01:26:11,280 --> 01:26:14,040
Speaker 5: noticed there's like this extra energy in your voices since

1521
01:26:14,040 --> 01:26:17,040
Speaker 5: you started on the new station on the radio, So

1522
01:26:17,080 --> 01:26:20,479
Speaker 5: that has been so much fun, especially with all of

1523
01:26:20,479 --> 01:26:24,120
Speaker 5: the hard topics and what's going on in the world.

1524
01:26:25,120 --> 01:26:28,840
Speaker 6: New energy, I don't know.

1525
01:26:29,200 --> 01:26:29,680
Speaker 4: I don't know.

1526
01:26:30,040 --> 01:26:33,519
Speaker 2: Let's take it. New energy is great, you know, I'm

1527
01:26:33,520 --> 01:26:34,480
Speaker 2: all for it.

1528
01:26:34,560 --> 01:26:37,000
Speaker 6: I thought it of energy. I think it's well.

1529
01:26:37,600 --> 01:26:40,840
Speaker 8: I think I will say the night that we did KFI,

1530
01:26:41,000 --> 01:26:43,000
Speaker 8: I felt like we all had a little bit.

1531
01:26:42,960 --> 01:26:43,479
Speaker 6: Of jitters and.

1532
01:26:45,160 --> 01:26:48,479
Speaker 8: There was this sort of like excitement in the air.

1533
01:26:48,600 --> 01:26:51,519
Speaker 8: So I do feel like everyone was kind of at

1534
01:26:51,560 --> 01:26:52,719
Speaker 8: their peak level.

1535
01:26:53,600 --> 01:26:56,160
Speaker 4: But you know, I mean, I think it's cotant me

1536
01:26:56,200 --> 01:26:59,280
Speaker 4: and I. If Courtney and I were in the same room,

1537
01:26:59,360 --> 01:27:01,200
Speaker 4: I think she would have been holding my hair for

1538
01:27:01,280 --> 01:27:04,439
Speaker 4: me while I was vomitable, do.

1539
01:27:04,400 --> 01:27:05,000
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?

1540
01:27:05,080 --> 01:27:09,800
Speaker 4: Like I was really scared. I mean, it's a big deal.

1541
01:27:09,920 --> 01:27:11,519
Speaker 4: I mean, I grew up my whole life wanted to

1542
01:27:11,560 --> 01:27:13,200
Speaker 4: be a DJ in l A and now I'm on

1543
01:27:13,240 --> 01:27:13,960
Speaker 4: the radio in LA.

1544
01:27:14,040 --> 01:27:16,719
Speaker 2: It's kind of like a thing. It's like, oh, I don't.

1545
01:27:16,520 --> 01:27:20,840
Speaker 8: Know it, ye Sam Adam and saying, you know, we're

1546
01:27:20,840 --> 01:27:23,080
Speaker 8: all gonna try to there was a time we're gonna

1547
01:27:23,080 --> 01:27:25,719
Speaker 8: all try to meet and be in the same studio

1548
01:27:25,800 --> 01:27:28,200
Speaker 8: with Sam and Adam at that time. And in retrospect,

1549
01:27:28,200 --> 01:27:29,519
Speaker 8: I'm like, thank god that didn't happen.

1550
01:27:29,600 --> 01:27:31,479
Speaker 6: Could you imagine? It would have probably been so like

1551
01:27:31,680 --> 01:27:33,080
Speaker 6: there was just too much.

1552
01:27:36,200 --> 01:27:36,559
Speaker 2: Gods.

1553
01:27:36,880 --> 01:27:39,639
Speaker 7: Definitely think guys would have been great, and I think

1554
01:27:39,640 --> 01:27:42,719
Speaker 7: you would have gotten like kind of entered just being

1555
01:27:43,120 --> 01:27:44,040
Speaker 7: all together.

1556
01:27:43,760 --> 01:27:47,639
Speaker 4: In the same room. Okay, Yeah, I kind of think

1557
01:27:47,640 --> 01:27:49,720
Speaker 4: like Sam and Adam are always annoyed with us. I

1558
01:27:49,720 --> 01:27:52,599
Speaker 4: feel like even though they're not, but I always feel

1559
01:27:52,640 --> 01:27:55,280
Speaker 4: like it. And I was envisioning us being there with

1560
01:27:55,320 --> 01:27:57,960
Speaker 4: them in the control room or whatever and being like,

1561
01:27:58,040 --> 01:28:01,000
Speaker 4: they need to leave, they need to get on you guys.

1562
01:28:00,760 --> 01:28:03,519
Speaker 6: It's time to go. It's nine o'clock. Thanks for coming back.

1563
01:28:03,640 --> 01:28:05,839
Speaker 4: You know, never given me the impression that they're annoyed

1564
01:28:05,840 --> 01:28:07,879
Speaker 4: with us. By the way, I never not once always

1565
01:28:07,880 --> 01:28:10,639
Speaker 4: been super polite professional. I just feel like, oh god,

1566
01:28:10,640 --> 01:28:12,760
Speaker 4: we would have annoyed them in versus.

1567
01:28:12,439 --> 01:28:15,559
Speaker 3: She's kind of a safe space for us, you know,

1568
01:28:16,000 --> 01:28:16,880
Speaker 3: other people in here.

1569
01:28:17,200 --> 01:28:18,800
Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying.

1570
01:28:19,120 --> 01:28:22,639
Speaker 6: Sorrow anything, we'd be probably less lonely here.

1571
01:28:23,040 --> 01:28:26,800
Speaker 2: That's now we have to go.

1572
01:28:27,320 --> 01:28:32,920
Speaker 3: I know we do well. Speaking of new levels of energy.

1573
01:28:33,280 --> 01:28:35,960
Speaker 3: I am very excited for tomorrow.

1574
01:28:38,520 --> 01:28:39,759
Speaker 2: I'm not going to be here tomorrow.

1575
01:28:39,840 --> 01:28:42,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, she's great. I mean, I was so impressed with

1576
01:28:42,680 --> 01:28:46,200
Speaker 4: her last time. I know I said that before, but yeah, I'm.

1577
01:28:46,400 --> 01:28:50,640
Speaker 3: More interested after digging in. I'm really really glad we

1578
01:28:50,720 --> 01:28:54,960
Speaker 3: dug into the case, especially with Jarrett Farantino me tonight,

1579
01:28:56,040 --> 01:28:58,520
Speaker 3: because on its face, Lucy.

1580
01:28:58,320 --> 01:29:06,799
Speaker 2: Let be, I mean that wall that Jared was talking about, I'll.

1581
01:29:06,600 --> 01:29:08,200
Speaker 8: Be honest, that's kind of why I was trying to

1582
01:29:08,200 --> 01:29:10,200
Speaker 8: take the other side, because I'm trying to think of

1583
01:29:10,240 --> 01:29:12,800
Speaker 8: it from the angle that she might be looking at

1584
01:29:13,640 --> 01:29:18,040
Speaker 8: the case of she being Amanda who has been covering

1585
01:29:18,080 --> 01:29:24,080
Speaker 8: this on her podcast, and it definitely it's divisive. I

1586
01:29:24,080 --> 01:29:27,240
Speaker 8: can see how everyone would can go in a different

1587
01:29:27,240 --> 01:29:31,120
Speaker 8: direction with it. But to your point, on its face,

1588
01:29:31,840 --> 01:29:34,080
Speaker 8: there's a lot of question marks that I have about it.

1589
01:29:34,120 --> 01:29:38,840
Speaker 8: But if maybe we'll learn more through Amanda's perspective, and

1590
01:29:38,920 --> 01:29:41,160
Speaker 8: I'm sure she's been in touch with people who have

1591
01:29:41,280 --> 01:29:43,519
Speaker 8: been directly involved and can share more light on it.

1592
01:29:43,560 --> 01:29:46,679
Speaker 8: But right now it is I went back and forth

1593
01:29:46,720 --> 01:29:47,719
Speaker 8: with it from the beginning.

1594
01:29:48,200 --> 01:29:52,000
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, so too did Amanda Knox seem I

1595
01:29:52,040 --> 01:29:54,400
Speaker 3: mean when she was painted guilty, it was like with

1596
01:29:54,439 --> 01:29:59,400
Speaker 3: all capital letters, and you can see how the evidence

1597
01:29:59,520 --> 01:30:03,120
Speaker 3: like it made sense even though it was completely untrue

1598
01:30:03,200 --> 01:30:05,679
Speaker 3: and she was and is completely innocent.

1599
01:30:07,000 --> 01:30:11,880
Speaker 2: The case that was presented pretty good beelling, you know.

1600
01:30:13,000 --> 01:30:18,840
Speaker 4: And then speaking of again new energy Tuesday, Right, we

1601
01:30:18,960 --> 01:30:22,680
Speaker 4: have a big guest Tuesday, Aaron Parnas, Right, he's the

1602
01:30:24,080 --> 01:30:26,800
Speaker 4: I follow him on TikTok. I know Stephanie follows him

1603
01:30:26,840 --> 01:30:30,000
Speaker 4: on Instagram, but I follow him on TikTok. And he

1604
01:30:30,040 --> 01:30:33,720
Speaker 4: does like breaking news a lot of you know, kind

1605
01:30:33,760 --> 01:30:37,680
Speaker 4: of it's very interesting news. It's all very good. He's

1606
01:30:38,040 --> 01:30:40,519
Speaker 4: a twenty six year old. He's a lawyer, right, he's

1607
01:30:40,520 --> 01:30:44,519
Speaker 4: a journalist. He's a political commentator. He became known for

1608
01:30:44,600 --> 01:30:46,960
Speaker 4: delivering news and legal analysis to be at TikTok. That

1609
01:30:47,000 --> 01:30:50,479
Speaker 4: I remember when he busted on the scene on TikTok.

1610
01:30:50,520 --> 01:30:54,080
Speaker 4: He gained a lot of followers very quickly because he

1611
01:30:54,120 --> 01:30:57,800
Speaker 4: started like right in the middle of covid. Right he

1612
01:30:57,880 --> 01:31:01,120
Speaker 4: started writing full of COVID. Now he's a full blown,

1613
01:31:01,240 --> 01:31:04,400
Speaker 4: you know, media personality. So he's going to be here Tuesday.

1614
01:31:05,439 --> 01:31:06,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm excited.

1615
01:31:06,320 --> 01:31:08,840
Speaker 3: He was just named Forbes thirty under thirty in the

1616
01:31:08,880 --> 01:31:13,920
Speaker 3: media story Yeah, for his influence in digital journalism. So holy,

1617
01:31:14,800 --> 01:31:17,479
Speaker 3: We've got good guests, and I think right now one

1618
01:31:17,520 --> 01:31:20,320
Speaker 3: of our guests should be a talkback from listen.

1619
01:31:20,400 --> 01:31:20,960
Speaker 2: Right, let's do it.

1620
01:31:21,160 --> 01:31:22,240
Speaker 6: I love it. Let's do it.

1621
01:31:22,640 --> 01:31:26,120
Speaker 11: Hey guys, it's Jordan from Arizona. I'm playing catch up

1622
01:31:26,280 --> 01:31:29,360
Speaker 11: because I didn't listen over the weekend or Monday. But man,

1623
01:31:29,680 --> 01:31:32,439
Speaker 11: you guys were talking about the song Humble by Kendrick

1624
01:31:32,520 --> 01:31:36,240
Speaker 11: Lamar and I totally heard Courtney with for under her

1625
01:31:36,280 --> 01:31:40,160
Speaker 11: Breast sit down and I died lovely and that of

1626
01:31:40,160 --> 01:31:42,639
Speaker 11: how I know Courtney is my spirit animal. I don't

1627
01:31:42,680 --> 01:31:43,800
Speaker 11: you guys know I enjoyed that.

1628
01:31:45,720 --> 01:31:48,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I loved all Right.

1629
01:31:49,080 --> 01:31:51,519
Speaker 4: We are big Kendrick fans on the show.

1630
01:31:51,680 --> 01:31:54,639
Speaker 8: Let me just tell you, all right, that is so

1631
01:31:54,760 --> 01:31:58,880
Speaker 8: funny for people who don't know. Sometimes we play a

1632
01:31:58,920 --> 01:32:02,240
Speaker 8: little music in between breaks to get the spirit and

1633
01:32:02,439 --> 01:32:04,800
Speaker 8: energy and pump us all up. But that is one

1634
01:32:04,840 --> 01:32:07,080
Speaker 8: of the songs that I think body all of you

1635
01:32:07,240 --> 01:32:09,240
Speaker 8: often have you sung that from the beginning?

1636
01:32:09,320 --> 01:32:10,879
Speaker 6: Like that's been a song I don't remember.

1637
01:32:11,200 --> 01:32:13,080
Speaker 2: I mean, we've done so many, We've.

1638
01:32:12,840 --> 01:32:13,639
Speaker 6: Done so many.

1639
01:32:13,640 --> 01:32:16,679
Speaker 3: It was Duran, durand hungry like the Wolf last night.

1640
01:32:17,720 --> 01:32:19,200
Speaker 6: Right, Yeah, yeah, but.

1641
01:32:22,080 --> 01:32:25,200
Speaker 4: I am Kendrick's I love Kendrick Lamar and I mean

1642
01:32:25,200 --> 01:32:29,920
Speaker 4: anything he does. But yeah, Courtney does too, obviously, sit down.

1643
01:32:30,280 --> 01:32:33,599
Speaker 2: It's really funny kind of watch this, Mike.

1644
01:32:34,920 --> 01:32:40,960
Speaker 3: It's actually my my son's h new little League field.

1645
01:32:40,960 --> 01:32:44,120
Speaker 3: They allow you to play walk on music, which is

1646
01:32:44,160 --> 01:32:47,000
Speaker 3: pretty cute to see, like preteens coming up to the

1647
01:32:47,040 --> 01:32:51,360
Speaker 3: back of the song and his Kenrick Lamar song.

1648
01:32:52,160 --> 01:32:55,280
Speaker 2: Is it really? Yeah? They all have, they have. Yeah,

1649
01:32:55,320 --> 01:32:57,600
Speaker 2: it's just it's a riot. What would yours be? What

1650
01:32:57,640 --> 01:32:58,320
Speaker 2: would your walk on?

1651
01:32:59,000 --> 01:33:01,599
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I'm stumped.

1652
01:33:01,600 --> 01:33:03,360
Speaker 2: You can answer that first, anyone else.

1653
01:33:03,360 --> 01:33:06,360
Speaker 8: I try to think of something really quick. What's mine?

1654
01:33:06,439 --> 01:33:09,040
Speaker 2: I know, se listen, I'm putting you guys on the

1655
01:33:09,040 --> 01:33:14,280
Speaker 2: spot right now. Ye I know, DJ coll I do

1656
01:33:14,479 --> 01:33:16,559
Speaker 2: is win win win, no manry though.

1657
01:33:16,840 --> 01:33:20,519
Speaker 3: Like if I'm just that's so not who I am.

1658
01:33:20,520 --> 01:33:23,599
Speaker 3: I win nothing ever, But it's like to walk in

1659
01:33:23,720 --> 01:33:25,080
Speaker 3: that's a good walk in song.

1660
01:33:25,920 --> 01:33:26,280
Speaker 2: What about you?

1661
01:33:26,400 --> 01:33:27,160
Speaker 6: Kind of powerful?

1662
01:33:27,720 --> 01:33:29,280
Speaker 8: Oh gosh, I'm still trying to think of so that.

1663
01:33:29,320 --> 01:33:30,639
Speaker 8: I feel like everything I'm thinking is.

1664
01:33:30,800 --> 01:33:37,000
Speaker 6: Old and dated mine. Uh body right now? Yeah?

1665
01:33:37,080 --> 01:33:37,800
Speaker 2: I probably do.

1666
01:33:38,280 --> 01:33:40,439
Speaker 4: Girls just want to have fun or something by Sydney Laupper,

1667
01:33:40,680 --> 01:33:48,920
Speaker 4: Oh bopping in girls to have fun? I don't know.

1668
01:33:49,240 --> 01:33:50,639
Speaker 6: Is there a something party all the time?

1669
01:33:50,880 --> 01:33:54,599
Speaker 4: Is that something girl wants to Eddie Murphy body all

1670
01:33:54,680 --> 01:33:55,120
Speaker 4: the time.

1671
01:33:56,800 --> 01:34:02,920
Speaker 6: I've dated something fun. I'm so on the spots Eddie.

1672
01:34:02,800 --> 01:34:05,240
Speaker 2: Murphy party all the time. Oh my go.

1673
01:34:08,920 --> 01:34:11,000
Speaker 4: Do you guys remember that if he did that whole

1674
01:34:11,040 --> 01:34:12,920
Speaker 4: video and he had like that Michael Jackson, Oh no,

1675
01:34:12,960 --> 01:34:13,200
Speaker 4: that was.

1676
01:34:16,800 --> 01:34:18,800
Speaker 2: Sam Adams, Rick James.

1677
01:34:19,160 --> 01:34:20,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, is the Rick James song?

1678
01:34:20,960 --> 01:34:21,160
Speaker 5: Yeah?

1679
01:34:21,160 --> 01:34:25,200
Speaker 4: Wait a minute, no Eddie Murphy saying that Murphy did

1680
01:34:25,200 --> 01:34:28,080
Speaker 4: sing that is your music?

1681
01:34:29,400 --> 01:34:29,840
Speaker 7: Walked on?

1682
01:34:30,920 --> 01:34:32,000
Speaker 2: Oh?

1683
01:34:32,080 --> 01:34:35,400
Speaker 3: Oh well, anyway, give us a talk bag.

1684
01:34:35,400 --> 01:34:38,479
Speaker 2: What is your walk on music? We want to know.

1685
01:34:39,160 --> 01:34:41,960
Speaker 3: And thank you so much for being with us, and

1686
01:34:42,040 --> 01:34:43,760
Speaker 3: of course be with us tomorrow.

1687
01:34:44,320 --> 01:34:45,920
Speaker 2: We'll be joined by Amanda Knox.

1688
01:34:46,360 --> 01:34:51,040
Speaker 3: Obviously we're very excited and uh yeah, we are excited

1689
01:34:51,080 --> 01:34:51,559
Speaker 3: to be with you.

1690
01:34:51,600 --> 01:34:53,280
Speaker 2: Always be good or be good at it.

1691
01:34:55,080 --> 01:34:55,280
Speaker 3: Yie