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Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business, Variety's weekly podcast featuring conversations with

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Speaker 1: industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm

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Speaker 1: Cynthia Lyttleton, co editor in chief of Variety Today. My

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Speaker 1: guest is Bill Sparrows, senior betting analyst for Bookies dot Com.

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Speaker 1: No organization on this planet pays more attention to the

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Speaker 1: annual Academy Awards race than Variety, but Bill Sparrows may

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Speaker 1: come close. Sparros has taken an interest in the Oscars

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Speaker 1: of late because betting on the Oscars has become legal

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Speaker 1: in seven states in counting New Jersey paved the way

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Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen. California is still not one of those

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Speaker 1: states that has legalized it, nor is Nevada. To the

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Speaker 1: dismay of bookmakers in Las Vegas, but in Indiana, Massachusetts, Kansas, Arizona, Colorado,

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Speaker 1: and Michigan, film fans with a taste for action can

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Speaker 1: lay down money on whether Oppenheimer sweeps, whether anything can

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Speaker 1: keep Christopher Nolan from claiming his Directing prize, or if

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Speaker 1: Emma Stone can pull out a win after the SAG

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Speaker 1: Award went to Lily Gladstone in Our Lively conversation, Sparros

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Speaker 1: discusses the growth of oscar betting and what it is

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Speaker 1: that drives casual fans to put their virtual chips down.

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Speaker 1: We also discuss the growth of sports betting as a

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Speaker 1: strategy and profit driver for Disney Box and other media conglomerates.

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Speaker 1: Sparrows has an interesting perspective on all of this through

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Speaker 1: his role at bookies dot com, which acts as a

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Speaker 1: clearinghouse for legal betting apps. It's part of the Gambling

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Speaker 1: dot Com network. All of this is coming right up

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Speaker 1: after this break, and we're back with Bill Sparrows, a booky.

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Speaker 1: Bill Spiros, senior betting analyst at Bookies dot Com. Thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for joining me today. Thanks for having

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Speaker 1: me well, Bill, This is a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: departure for strictly business. We love to get deep and

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Speaker 1: wonky here about the business of entertainment and people that

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Speaker 1: are in the trenches doing content deals and m and

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Speaker 1: A and all kinds of things. But we also at

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Speaker 1: Variety love to cover the oscars. It's a three hundred

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Speaker 1: and sixty five day a year beat around here. And

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Speaker 1: you caught our attention because you've been writing some interesting

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Speaker 1: pieces about the state of betting, legal betting on the oscars,

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Speaker 1: which is growing in many states. California is not one

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Speaker 1: of them. We can talk about why a little later,

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Speaker 1: but it definitely caught my attention that at a time

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Speaker 1: when wagering as a media strategy is growing for a

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Speaker 1: lot of companies, especially those that are invested in sports,

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Speaker 1: wagering in general is kind of in the air and

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Speaker 1: certainly in the increasingly becoming part of the balance sheet

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Speaker 1: of major media companies like Disney, like Warner Brothers, Discovery.

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Speaker 1: So I want to talk a little bit about that,

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Speaker 1: but let's start with what's going on with the oscars

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Speaker 1: and tell us how and why it's become more legal.

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Speaker 1: Betting on the outcome of the oscars is become more

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Speaker 1: prevalent and more available in more states.

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Speaker 2: This is a fifth year that oscar betting has been

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Speaker 2: legal in the United States. It started in New Jersey

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Speaker 2: in twenty nineteen. That was the first time. That was

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Speaker 2: a year after the Supreme Court cleared the way for

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Speaker 2: sports betting just pread nationwide. New Jersey actually filed the

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Speaker 2: lawsuit that overturned sports betting Murphy Governor Murphy. The NCAA,

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Speaker 2: also referred to as the past the case for the

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Speaker 2: legal nerds out there, but New Jersey started legal sports

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Speaker 2: betting in June of twenty eighteen, and it also allowed

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Speaker 2: oscar betting. That was something that the sportsbooks wanted to

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Speaker 2: offer because many of them that had been based in

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Speaker 2: Europe had been offering it in Europe already, so FanDuel

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Speaker 2: DraftKings in particular, those two books started offering oscar betting

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Speaker 2: in New Jersey and then it sort of incrementally grew

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Speaker 2: each year. The following year, Indiana added oscar betting. In

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, Michigan and Colorado added it when they

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Speaker 2: began sports betting, same with Louisiana. Louisiana began sports betting,

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Speaker 2: and early twenty twenty two they also agreed to allow

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Speaker 2: oscar betting. Last year in Massachusetts. In Kansas joined the

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Speaker 2: list and Massachusetts online betting went live last year on

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Speaker 2: March tenth, on a Friday, two days before the Oscars,

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Speaker 2: So they sort of technically began betting on the Oscars

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Speaker 2: last year in Massachusetts, but it really was only two

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Speaker 2: days in advance. So this is really the first year

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Speaker 2: that you'll see a full slate of oscar betting in

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Speaker 2: Massachusetts and Kansas, and then Arizona is offering it this

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Speaker 2: year for the first time. So each year as you've

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Speaker 2: seen states legalized gambling, and right now you have gambling

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Speaker 2: is legal and thirty nine states right now it's operational.

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Speaker 2: In thirty eight North Carolina it's going to go live

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Speaker 2: next month. They won't be offering oscar betting now. So

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Speaker 2: as more and more states have added sports betting, some

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Speaker 2: of those states have also added OSCAR betting at the

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Speaker 2: same time.

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Speaker 1: And can I ask, is it specifically you can bet

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Speaker 1: on the Academy Awards or does is it say you

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Speaker 1: can bet on awards competitions? I mean, is it specific

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Speaker 1: again the Academy Awards?

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Speaker 2: Sure sports betting is balkanized. Thirty nine states allow sports betting.

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Speaker 2: There are thirty nine different sets of rules. There are

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Speaker 2: thirty nine different sports betting catalogs. There are thirty nine

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Speaker 2: different sets of regulations. You know, some states allow certain

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Speaker 2: college wagers. Other states don't. Example, in Massachusetts, you cannot

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Speaker 2: bet on a Harvard football game or a Boston College

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Speaker 2: football game during the regular season because the state law

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Speaker 2: doesn't allow that. New Jersey does allow betting on the

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Speaker 2: Emmys and the Grammys, and Indiana does as well. But

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Speaker 2: in Massachusetts when they enacted this, the operators would to

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Speaker 2: beacon hell. They only asked to take action on the oscars.

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Speaker 2: So again it's a really it's a state by state thing,

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Speaker 2: but the others really don't compare in terms of interest

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Speaker 2: or betting handle to what the oscars would generate.

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Speaker 1: The profile of these awards is so much higher.

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Speaker 2: Frankly, you'll see people take more interest after they've seen

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Speaker 2: some of these movies because you know, a lot of

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Speaker 2: these movies, like you've probably noticed in your profession, a

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Speaker 2: lot of Oscar nominated movies, they haven't been seen by

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Speaker 2: a whole lot of people. And this year is different.

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Speaker 2: And that's another reason why you know, these books expect

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Speaker 2: a pretty decent uptick. You know, because of the success

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Speaker 2: at the box office at Barbie and Oppenheimer as it

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Speaker 2: did at the box office, it will do for betting

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Speaker 2: on the oscars. That will just increase eyeballs and increase

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Speaker 2: you know, dollar figures.

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Speaker 1: Right, and a boy ABC sure hopes that you are correct,

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Speaker 1: which I suspect that you are. How do you go

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Speaker 1: about do you handicap the oscars? How do you go

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Speaker 1: about looking at the looking at the field than trying

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Speaker 1: to give advice.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's different, you know, That's what makes this betting

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Speaker 2: Oscar betting unique. When you bet football, for instance, you're

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Speaker 2: looking at multiple data points. When it comes to the oscars,

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Speaker 2: there's no data. I mean, we're not betting. If we're betting,

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Speaker 2: box Office Top Gun would have one like every Oscar

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Speaker 2: for the next years. So with the Oscars it's different.

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Speaker 2: You have to look at what is the industry sentiment,

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Speaker 2: What are outlets like Variety and others saying about who

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Speaker 2: they believe the favorites are, What, if anything, are the

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Speaker 2: members of the Academy saying, which is usually nothing? And

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Speaker 2: then you also look at other awards.

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Speaker 1: Right, there's a lot of precursors too.

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Speaker 2: You look at the Golden Globes, maybe you look at

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Speaker 2: the batht Awards, and then of course the SAG Awards.

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Speaker 2: The SAG Awards are usually the biggest tell given the

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Speaker 2: overlap between the SAG members and the members of the Academy,

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Speaker 2: who you know, vote in those categories. That's about as

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Speaker 2: close to a tell as you're gonna get in any

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Speaker 2: of this, beyond the overwhelming feel that Christopher Nolan is

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Speaker 2: gonna win runaway with the best director in Oppenheimer is

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Speaker 2: a huge favorite to win Best Picture. But again that's

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Speaker 2: just based on sentiment.

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Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with more on

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Speaker 1: Oscar betting and sports waging with Bill Sparrows of Bookies

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Speaker 1: dot Com. And we're back with more on Oscar betting

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Speaker 1: and sports wagering with Bill Sparrow. So, Bookies dot com.

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Speaker 1: Do you find that people do they really get deep

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Speaker 1: into the race? Does it go as deep as visual

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Speaker 1: effects and cinemataographers and composers.

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Speaker 2: Draft Kings, FanDuel offering odds on all twenty three categories.

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Speaker 2: So you could bet on let's see, let's find a makeup.

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Speaker 2: You can bet on makeup. Maestro is the favorite, which

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Speaker 2: is kind of surprised.

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Speaker 1: Well, that was that was a feat of makeup in

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Speaker 1: many respects for sure.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so yeah, no, you could bet every state that

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Speaker 2: offers Oscar betting, Draft Kings, and FanDuel or up in

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Speaker 2: each of those states, and they're offering odds in all

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Speaker 2: twenty three categories. So if you really feel, you know,

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Speaker 2: if you really feel in it on Maestro, you can

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Speaker 2: bet on it. For best makeup, you can go on.

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Speaker 1: Do you find does oscar betting attract a particular crowd

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Speaker 1: or will people that bet on sports and football and

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Speaker 1: NBA and all the kind of the more traditional things

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Speaker 1: that you think of as betting on, will they also

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Speaker 1: bet on oscars Or do you find that you get

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Speaker 1: a particular crowd of cinophiles that just want to put

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Speaker 1: some money down on their favorites.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think, you know, you get some, you get

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Speaker 2: some new, get some new blood, you get new, you

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Speaker 2: get new people that don't traditionally bet sports. You know,

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Speaker 2: we saw that anecdotically, anecdotically last year in Massachusetts where

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Speaker 2: you know, there was there was anecdotal evidence of people

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Speaker 2: that didn't necessarily like sports, but we're very much into

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Speaker 2: the oscars that were betting or considering to bet on it.

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Speaker 2: You'll have betters sports betters who unnecessarily predispose the betting

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Speaker 2: on the oscars but might be watching it with their

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Speaker 2: significant other or their buddies and friends that are you know,

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Speaker 2: party and realize, oh my, we can bet on this you.

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Speaker 1: Like.

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Speaker 2: But you know, Robert Downey Junior or Emma Stone or

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Speaker 2: called Giamani, you know, so it's most of the bets

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Speaker 2: are very small. Obviously, they're you know, it.

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Speaker 1: Is much more a twenty dollars forty dollars. Like you

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Speaker 1: say small, you mean small in dollar terms.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, between five and five hundred. And again that's

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Speaker 2: a budget thing, which we can tell We can tell

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Speaker 2: about that later too, but it is much more of

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Speaker 2: a I'm going to bet to add to my oscar experience,

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Speaker 2: where with sports betting you have people who bet and

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Speaker 2: then say, okay, I'll watch the game, right, So it's

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Speaker 2: a different it is a different mental dynamic. Very few

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Speaker 2: people are betting on the oscars and the same way

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Speaker 2: that they would bet on a sporting event.

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Speaker 1: Wagering has become an integral part of strategy. Media companies

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Speaker 1: like Disney, like Fox, like Warner Brothers, Discovery that have

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Speaker 1: big investments in sports rights and have you know, have

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Speaker 1: have embraced to a to a surprising degree to I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of people like me who are sports

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Speaker 1: fans have just still I will I will admit to

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Speaker 1: having just a little bit of just a little bit

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Speaker 1: of a twinge about betting becoming so intertwined with the

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Speaker 1: presentation of sports on TV. To me, it's there's a

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Speaker 1: little bit of like feels like there should be a

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Speaker 1: little bit of removed. But that that aside. What what

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Speaker 1: from your perspective, what is it doing to the world

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Speaker 1: of betting, especially sports betting, to have now wagering options

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Speaker 1: so baked into the presentation of games and on ESPN

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Speaker 1: and Fox Sports, all of the commentary that surrounds games.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of talk and a lot of advertisements

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Speaker 1: for sports sports betting. What is that done for this

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Speaker 1: whole sector?

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Speaker 2: It's made a lot of people a lot of money.

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Speaker 2: It's really the you know, the business bottom line answer.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I should get over my reserve about it.

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Speaker 2: Just today, as we're taping, the NFL announced the salary

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Speaker 2: caps for next year. Salary cap for next year two

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Speaker 2: hundred and fifty five million dollars. That is a thirty

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Speaker 2: million dollar increase than it was last year, and it

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Speaker 2: blew away expectations.

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Speaker 1: Nice work if you can get it, I.

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Speaker 2: Suppose, well, but there's a reason for that. The reason

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Speaker 2: is that the league is collecting. You saw the television

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Speaker 2: ratings go up for the Super Bowl. Obviously troll Swift

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Speaker 2: was a huge part of that, but you saw massive

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Speaker 2: ratings for the NFC Championship game fifty six million people.

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Speaker 2: People don't necessarily understand this, but all the money the

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Speaker 2: NFL gets from its licensing deals with sports books and

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Speaker 2: it's sponsorship deals with sports books is used just like

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Speaker 2: TV revenues to compute the salary cap. So not only

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Speaker 2: is the league betting benefiting directly from sponsorship money that

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Speaker 2: it gets. When you go to DraftKings and you see

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Speaker 2: that logo for the LA Rams, they're paying a fee

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Speaker 2: to use that logo on their website.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: And if you go to a football stadium and there's

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Speaker 2: a Fandel sports book there, that sportsbook custs fend a

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Speaker 2: lot of money, right, they see get for free exactly.

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Speaker 2: So the NFL in particular is benefiting from gambling that

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Speaker 2: keeps people interested in games that aren't necessarily close, or

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Speaker 2: even games like that you know NFC Championship game, which

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Speaker 2: really wasn't close until the final play when Detroit scored

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Speaker 2: that lay touchdown. But that lay touchdown, even though the

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Speaker 2: game was over at the time, was monumental because it

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Speaker 2: allowed the trick to the spread. So even though they

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Speaker 2: lost that game by three points, they scored with like

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Speaker 2: thirty seconds left, and the forty nine has pretty much

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Speaker 2: let him score because they wanted to run the clock,

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Speaker 2: but that touchdown was monumental because it allowed the Lions

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Speaker 2: to cover the spread. So in those situations, the league

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Speaker 2: is benefiting directly from sports betting revenues, and it's benefiting

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Speaker 2: indirectly from sports betting because betters are watching games until

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Speaker 2: they end. The real pot of goal for all professional

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Speaker 2: sports teams and their embracing of gambling is that it

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Speaker 2: increases eyeballs on screens.

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Speaker 1: What's the next frontier? What do you think people are

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Speaker 1: going to be potentially betting on, you know, in the

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Speaker 1: coming years.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean the big one, the Holy Grail, and

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Speaker 2: all of this is political betting. That is that is

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Speaker 2: the dream, the secret, hidden dream of every sportsbook operator

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Speaker 2: in America is for political betting.

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Speaker 1: To the un.

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Speaker 2: I don't see it happening now. Then again, I never

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Speaker 2: thought I'd see sports betting past the Alabama House.

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Speaker 1: Well, Bill, this has been a very enlightening, truly enlightening

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Speaker 1: conversation about a trend that is more than a trend,

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Speaker 1: that is a force that is becoming a bigger factor

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Speaker 1: in media. I have to end our conversation with the

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Speaker 1: question for you in terms of let's let's talk about

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Speaker 1: the Best Picture race. Where do you think where do

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Speaker 1: you think the smart money is? I think I know

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Speaker 1: the answer. Where do you think the riskiest bet worth

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Speaker 1: taking is? In the best p R?

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Speaker 2: Best Picture? You know, Oppenheimer has sort of bounced around

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Speaker 2: a little bit. It was minus seven hundred, which means

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Speaker 2: you bet seven to win one. After the Best Awards

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Speaker 2: it went up to fourteen minus fourteen hundred. Meeting you

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Speaker 2: have to bet fourteen win one. It's settled back a

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Speaker 2: bit where right now you have to bet twelve to

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Speaker 2: win one. Again, that's a pretty a pretty high price.

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Speaker 2: You know, if you wanted to win twelve, you know,

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Speaker 2: ten bucks, you might want to bet one hundred and

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Speaker 2: twenty to win ten. I don't do that. I would

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Speaker 2: not do that. You know, it's really a question of

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Speaker 2: what other movie can break through, Like what could break through,

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Speaker 2: you know, the sort of Oppenheimer vibe of the Oppenheimer.

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Speaker 1: Power, right, what could draw voters?

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Speaker 2: And the only you know, I mean from you know,

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Speaker 2: from what I've seen and heard. I mean, there is

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Speaker 2: there is some money out there on the holdovers. It's

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Speaker 2: still twelve to one, but it's held that second spot.

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Speaker 2: And you know, there've been upsets before.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Be sure to leave us a review

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Speaker 1: at Apple Podcast or Amazon Music. We love to hear

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