WEBVTT - Dig Deep XYZ: Well, That Was Embarrassing

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to desperately devoted.

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<v Speaker 2>Think of us as your favorite neighbors as we chat

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<v Speaker 2>about life and relationships, all.

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<v Speaker 3>While we revisit the iconic show Desperate Housewives together.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Terry Hatcher, I'm Andrea Bowen.

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<v Speaker 3>And I'm Emerson Tony.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, guys, Hi, good to see you, Good to see you.

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<v Speaker 2>As always happy Thursday. I love our Thursday Bonus episodes.

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<v Speaker 2>They're my favorite because we just I is it wrong

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<v Speaker 2>to say, like we just get to be us because

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<v Speaker 2>like we're also us in the other episode. Now I

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<v Speaker 2>know anything about this because we're talking about what we

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<v Speaker 2>really care about.

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<v Speaker 3>We're desperately devoted to diving into something that strays maybe

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<v Speaker 3>a little from the path of the immediate episode a

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<v Speaker 3>little bit.

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<v Speaker 2>We get to do that. I think of it as

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<v Speaker 2>like our thursdates.

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<v Speaker 1>They're like our little You.

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<v Speaker 2>Really are the best at the word com I know

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<v Speaker 2>that that has a word. When you do that. What's

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<v Speaker 2>it called when you put two words together like.

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<v Speaker 1>That hanging fruit? I don't know. I don't think that's

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<v Speaker 1>just fairly that impressive.

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<v Speaker 2>But okay, well we are here still talking about episode eleven.

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<v Speaker 2>What was it called?

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<v Speaker 3>Move on?

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<v Speaker 2>I just you were telling her move on, mom, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>move along, move along, we only have twelve minutes.

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<v Speaker 3>No.

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<v Speaker 2>But one of the things that really caught my attention,

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<v Speaker 2>just because I actually think it was you know, deeply

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<v Speaker 2>emotional for the character, was when Gabby has to go

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<v Speaker 2>be a car model in the mall because she's so

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<v Speaker 2>you know, scraping the bottom of the barrel for trying

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<v Speaker 2>to find money. And well, first of all, it made

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<v Speaker 2>me think a lot of things, like has anybody had

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<v Speaker 2>weird jobs, you know, or like jobs they were maybe

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<v Speaker 2>not didn't love or were ashamed of. But also, I

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<v Speaker 2>think in a bigger way, I don't know. I've been

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<v Speaker 2>reading this book Let Them by Mel Robbins, as has

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<v Speaker 2>by the way, the rest of every world. It's only

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<v Speaker 2>like the top rated book, the top rated podcast, the

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<v Speaker 2>top rated everything. But for a while I sort of

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<v Speaker 2>didn't really get it. And I think this is what

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of people think. They think like let them,

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<v Speaker 2>Like what, Okay, I'm just supposed to let everybody do

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<v Speaker 2>whatever and not care about it. But the follow up

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<v Speaker 2>to the let them is let me, which is where

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<v Speaker 2>so you let them do whatever, but then you let

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<v Speaker 2>me do what I need to do, And it kind

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<v Speaker 2>of For me, my own version of it is that

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<v Speaker 2>let me part is feeling like it's giving me the

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<v Speaker 2>control and the responsibility to react or behave the way

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<v Speaker 2>I want to, and so you feel less victimized because

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<v Speaker 2>you feel less like people are doing things to you

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<v Speaker 2>and more like you still have control of the situation. Anyway,

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<v Speaker 2>it's somehow bled out to me with this storyline of like,

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<v Speaker 2>why do we care so much about what people think

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<v Speaker 2>about us? Why are we so ashamed, you know, by

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<v Speaker 2>things we feel judged by others? I don't knowly it

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<v Speaker 2>actually brought up a lot for me in a deep way.

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<v Speaker 2>And yeah, so I don't know how about you guys. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean I am working.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm going to start more macro and then I'm going

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<v Speaker 3>to get more micro into Gaping's storyline and back to

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<v Speaker 3>maybe jobs that we have felt embarrassment around, but starting

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<v Speaker 3>on the macro of why do we care so much

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<v Speaker 3>about what people think about us? I this is something

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<v Speaker 3>that I am in my twentieth year of life, really

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<v Speaker 3>working on being better about going. You know what, it

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<v Speaker 3>is an illusion that we have control over everyone's perception

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<v Speaker 3>of us, and a lot of people, some people, friends

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<v Speaker 3>of friends, people we interact with maybe on a day

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<v Speaker 3>that's like not our proudest day, they will have a

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<v Speaker 3>singular experience or no experience, and are perfectly capable of

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<v Speaker 3>making a judgment about who we may or may not

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<v Speaker 3>be that we aren't in control of. And I know

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<v Speaker 3>I've spent a lot of my life being like, oh God,

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<v Speaker 3>I just want I want everyone to know, like what

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<v Speaker 3>my heart actually is and how.

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<v Speaker 2>I actually identify.

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<v Speaker 3>And recently I've been feeling like, you know what, life

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<v Speaker 3>is too short for me to be putting energy towards

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<v Speaker 3>that I know who I am and how I feel

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<v Speaker 3>about myself when I look in the mirror, and if

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<v Speaker 3>someone else doesn't share that view of me, it's not

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<v Speaker 3>in my control and I don't need to internalize it.

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<v Speaker 3>And I think that that I want to pass that

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<v Speaker 3>to Gabby, the character in this scene, because our our

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<v Speaker 3>lives are full of many different stages, and I am

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<v Speaker 3>definitely someone who you know, working as a creative as

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<v Speaker 3>we all are working as a writer. I have a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of friends who are artists, and sometimes they will

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<v Speaker 3>say things like, oh, I feel like I was born

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<v Speaker 3>to be a musician, Like I was like I'm here

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<v Speaker 3>to like paint this painting like it's my calling, and

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<v Speaker 3>that always makes me a little bit nervous. Honestly, when

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<v Speaker 3>people identify their own self worth and individuality with their

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<v Speaker 3>work and career. I mean, I love being a writer.

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<v Speaker 3>I think it is the biggest joy. I'm so grateful

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<v Speaker 3>that I get to make a living by creating stories

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<v Speaker 3>and spend my days doing that. But I always say

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<v Speaker 3>that if tomorrow writing became inaccessible to me, I would

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<v Speaker 3>be just as happy of a person doing some other job.

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<v Speaker 3>And I know that I have the tools to find

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<v Speaker 3>what that may be, and I think it can be

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<v Speaker 3>a little bit of a slippery slope. I think a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of Gabby's shame in this instance comes from she

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<v Speaker 3>clearly identifies as not just.

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<v Speaker 2>A model, but a type of model.

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<v Speaker 3>That then she's imbuing with all these characteristics about what

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<v Speaker 3>that says about who she is in the world. And

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<v Speaker 3>I think that can be dangerous when we identify with

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<v Speaker 3>our work too much.

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<v Speaker 1>I am so guilty of struggling with identity about my

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<v Speaker 1>work and what it means to be an actor, because

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<v Speaker 1>I don't really have memories that predate that being a

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<v Speaker 1>part of my identity. I started so young that it

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<v Speaker 1>is so in my it feels like it's cellular that

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<v Speaker 1>I am an actor, I am a performer, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>and that that is attached to my own self worth,

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<v Speaker 1>but also how others view me. And so now that

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<v Speaker 1>I've been in the industry for close to thirty years

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<v Speaker 1>being a union member, I've really had to work on

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<v Speaker 1>separating those two things. That there is me as a person,

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<v Speaker 1>as a human with a lot more to offer, and

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<v Speaker 1>then there's me and what I choose to do and

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<v Speaker 1>the fact that I have chosen a profession that is

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<v Speaker 1>so unstable as we know, it goes up in waves

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<v Speaker 1>throughout all the time. You can't be reliant on that

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<v Speaker 1>as your sole source of confidence, you know, because it's

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<v Speaker 1>just not sustainable. And over the years, you know, as

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<v Speaker 1>an adult, transitioning from being a child actor into an

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<v Speaker 1>adult actor is a bumpy process. You go through years

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<v Speaker 1>where people just only see you. I mean, people still

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<v Speaker 1>see me, and I'm grateful in many ways, but just

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<v Speaker 1>as Julie Meyer, you know, and so you go through

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<v Speaker 1>this time period where things lean out and then you're

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<v Speaker 1>having to think, like do I change careers? You know,

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes you need to get work to pay bills and

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<v Speaker 1>things like that, and there's all this shame and embarrassment.

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<v Speaker 2>Attached to it.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I have been so guilty of picking up

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<v Speaker 1>different jobs and being worried about like what if someone

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<v Speaker 1>watched Desperate Housewives or what if someone saw something else

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<v Speaker 1>I had done and then they go, oh, why is

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<v Speaker 1>she doing that? You know, which is like there should

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<v Speaker 1>be none of that, all of that mental load happening

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<v Speaker 1>in my brain. I should just be like, we all

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<v Speaker 1>got to work, It's fine. And so, I mean, look,

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<v Speaker 1>it's for me. It's still very much a work in

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<v Speaker 1>progress to separate those two things, like my occupation and who.

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<v Speaker 2>I feel like there was a level of where I

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<v Speaker 2>used to frame it as like I'm going to put

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<v Speaker 2>on the Terry Hatcher costume, you know, like like her.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you say that? And I mean that really, I

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<v Speaker 2>guess that's more. You know, it's like a crazy duality

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<v Speaker 2>that I really feel like when I'm on a red carpet,

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<v Speaker 2>when I'm doing an interview, even this podcast whatever, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not full of shit. I mean, you've heard other people,

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<v Speaker 2>like some of our guests that we've had, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>like say that like my number one quality, You're not

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<v Speaker 2>You're not there's no bullshit, like I'm not a faker,

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<v Speaker 2>you know. But at the same time, the job, the fame,

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<v Speaker 2>it calls for you to have a front over what

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<v Speaker 2>might be going on inside. So there is there is

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<v Speaker 2>this duality that can feel hard. And I mean, at

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<v Speaker 2>sixty one, I do feel like my sense of value

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<v Speaker 2>all that, like the thing that you're saying you're still

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<v Speaker 2>sort of working on, Andrew, and I totally get it,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, like where you're saying you went from child

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<v Speaker 2>actor to adult actor. I went from pretty to not pretty,

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<v Speaker 2>you know. And and I mean people will say to me,

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<v Speaker 2>you're still pretty whatever, but it's obviously I'm sixty one.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not a a an ingenue that's going to be

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<v Speaker 2>a male's lead in a movie, you know. Like like, so,

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<v Speaker 2>I think I'm still waiting to get that part that

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<v Speaker 2>allows me to use the experience in the body that

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<v Speaker 2>I am now, which I'm looking forward to. I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>shying away from it. I'm not scared of it. I

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<v Speaker 2>hope it exists, Like I hope I either create it

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<v Speaker 2>myself by producing it or writing it, or somebody you know,

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<v Speaker 2>sees it in me and cast me. But it is

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<v Speaker 2>interesting how you're doing this evolution in front of people.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm not in a forward facing profession like being an actor,

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<v Speaker 3>but I still think growing up with you and seeing

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<v Speaker 3>that and absorb that, and then also as a writer,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, there are and some writers do this to

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<v Speaker 3>varying degrees of success.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think having actors as parents kind of.

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<v Speaker 3>Media trained me for being good in the room.

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<v Speaker 2>But where you do.

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<v Speaker 3>You go in and you're pitching an idea, and you

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<v Speaker 3>are you're yourself, but you're also a heightened version of

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<v Speaker 3>the costume of Emerson, the smart writer who's intellectual but

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<v Speaker 3>grounded and relatable and funny and charming and professional but

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<v Speaker 3>also your friend. And that's like the encompassing costume and

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<v Speaker 3>I have had I think I really learned, and I

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<v Speaker 3>will call it a skill because it is a skill professionally,

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<v Speaker 3>but I think it's something I'm working on not kicking

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<v Speaker 3>into in my personal life because it can also be

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<v Speaker 3>not A good skill is the ability to bifurcate what

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<v Speaker 3>is going on in Emerson, the internal world of Emerson

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<v Speaker 3>as a person, and become Emerson the character of Emerson.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, I've had like full on dramatic breakups going

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<v Speaker 3>on and then had to like walk into a big

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<v Speaker 3>studio room and pitch a movie and turn all of

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<v Speaker 3>that off.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, that was sort of like the first the first

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<v Speaker 2>couple seasons of Housewives, you know, where I had a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of dramatic stuff happening in my real life and

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<v Speaker 2>had to show up on set, which I you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I think I always did the work, but it's not.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not as easy as it sounds to have like.

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<v Speaker 1>An ass it can be an asset as well, Like

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<v Speaker 1>it's hard to figure out what things to allow to

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<v Speaker 1>sort of one, sometimes you can't control it. Two sometimes

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<v Speaker 1>you try so hard to control it that you lose

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<v Speaker 1>part of the realness that can come from letting those

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<v Speaker 1>things just be. You know, and I hear in both

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<v Speaker 1>of what you're saying, this thing that we all clearly

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<v Speaker 1>struggle with as human beings, which is like.

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<v Speaker 2>How do we show up?

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<v Speaker 1>How do we put our Terry Hatcher or Andrea Bowen,

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<v Speaker 1>our Emerson Tenny costumes on? But also, you know, those

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<v Speaker 1>costumes are authentic and they're real, and they're ever evolving

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<v Speaker 1>and growing and breathing things. It's it's such a hard thing.

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<v Speaker 1>I also feel like this is sort of tangentially related

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<v Speaker 1>but might be interesting to some, which is that I find,

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<v Speaker 1>and I wonder how you feel about this, Terry. I

0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:22.800
<v Speaker 1>find as an actor, the hardest thing to portray, honestly

0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:27.080
<v Speaker 1>is embarrassment. I think it is such a hard emotion

0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:34.040
<v Speaker 1>to accurately drum up because it's so we so are uncomfortable.

0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:36.800
<v Speaker 1>That's the whole thing is we're uncomfortable when we experience it,

0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:40.040
<v Speaker 1>and so manufacturing that can be really harder than like

0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:43.120
<v Speaker 1>something super emotional or you know what I mean.

0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:46.680
<v Speaker 2>Do you think do you think Gabby in this scene

0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:49.640
<v Speaker 2>that we're talking about is embarrassed or do you think

0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:51.720
<v Speaker 2>she's a shame? Yeah? Or is it different?

0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:52.560
<v Speaker 3>Hmm?

0:13:54.360 --> 0:13:54.800
<v Speaker 2>Interesting?

0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:58.800
<v Speaker 1>I think maybe initially it's the embarrassment, like that's sitting up,

0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:01.120
<v Speaker 1>but then if you unpack it, if she took time

0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:02.520
<v Speaker 1>to go back, it's probably shame.

0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:07.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Embarrassing is a secondary emotion to shame. Yeah.

0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:09.360
<v Speaker 3>Okay, so rapid fire. I mean, I know we're like,

0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:12.079
<v Speaker 3>these are our little short bonus episodes. What is the

0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:14.640
<v Speaker 3>most and now that we've unpacked that there's no such

0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:17.200
<v Speaker 3>thing as an embarrassing job? What is the most embarrassing

0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:18.520
<v Speaker 3>job you've ever had?

0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:23.600
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So I I've been an actor in my whole life,

0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:25.200
<v Speaker 1>as we know, so most of my jobs have been

0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:27.720
<v Speaker 1>work related, although I did have a stint where I

0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:30.360
<v Speaker 1>was helping a friend. This is an embarrassing Okay, I'm

0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:33.600
<v Speaker 1>just gonna say it's not embarrassing. It's just fascinating and interesting.

0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:36.800
<v Speaker 1>I did have a friend. I do still have this friend.

0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:41.040
<v Speaker 1>He's wonderful and I assisted him working at a pet crematory.

0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:43.800
<v Speaker 2>Oh so there's a lot.

0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:47.160
<v Speaker 3>There that's so embarrassing, Andrea, Now I'm just kidding.

0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:52.600
<v Speaker 2>Wow, that's crazy. Yeah. What's the biggest thing you learned

0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:53.400
<v Speaker 2>from it?

0:14:54.040 --> 0:15:00.000
<v Speaker 1>That people? Pet people are wonderfully, wildly colorful. I will

0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:04.360
<v Speaker 1>tell you that the first past pet that I reunited

0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:06.120
<v Speaker 1>with their owner, you know, I wanted to be very

0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:06.840
<v Speaker 1>delicate about it.

0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:07.160
<v Speaker 2>I was.

0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:09.720
<v Speaker 1>I was going to their home to give them their

0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:15.480
<v Speaker 1>pet was named Liza Minelli, and so I had to

0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:18.720
<v Speaker 1>figure out how to tell this person, you know, with

0:15:18.800 --> 0:15:20.840
<v Speaker 1>a straight face, like I have here.

0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:25.240
<v Speaker 2>I have Liza Minnelli for you anyway, My gosh.

0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:26.920
<v Speaker 1>So you know, I just learned a little bit more

0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:29.240
<v Speaker 1>about how colorful pet people are. I am one of them,

0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:31.160
<v Speaker 1>so I get it. Those are my people.

0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:35.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, me too. I wouldn't say. I don't know if

0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:38.760
<v Speaker 2>this is like embarrassing, but I was a waitress early

0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:41.240
<v Speaker 2>on here in Los Angeles. I was actually also on

0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:46.320
<v Speaker 2>a soap opera at the same time. I mean, talk

0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:48.440
<v Speaker 2>about it, well, I'm now I have like other things

0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:49.920
<v Speaker 2>coming through my head. What I was going to say

0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:53.320
<v Speaker 2>is one time I was serving a pizza to a

0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:57.520
<v Speaker 2>table and then I walked away and the manager pulled

0:15:57.520 --> 0:16:00.360
<v Speaker 2>me over and she's like, I saw your thumb touched

0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:03.600
<v Speaker 2>the crust of that pizza. Don't ever do that. And

0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:07.200
<v Speaker 2>I was like wow, Like she's like with binoculars. Oh,

0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:12.080
<v Speaker 2>like like, uh, plus, my hands are clean. But okay.

0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:15.200
<v Speaker 2>So I got like I got shamed by my manager

0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:19.360
<v Speaker 2>when I was being a waitress for touching a piece

0:16:19.400 --> 0:16:21.520
<v Speaker 2>of the food. I guess, well I got.

0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:25.120
<v Speaker 3>I got shamed by my boss when I was first

0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:27.720
<v Speaker 3>back out in LA during COVID but we were shooting

0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:31.720
<v Speaker 3>down in San Clemente and I got asked to drive

0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:36.280
<v Speaker 3>at like one PM up to Los Angeles to pick

0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:40.160
<v Speaker 3>up makeup and lighting and then back down to San Clemente.

0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:43.000
<v Speaker 3>And they were doing all this construction on the freeway

0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:44.800
<v Speaker 3>and it was like closed down to a single lane.

0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:47.480
<v Speaker 3>It took me like three hours to get back from

0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:49.960
<v Speaker 3>LA because then it was in rush hour, like by

0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:51.560
<v Speaker 3>the time I'd gotten up there and gotten the stuff,

0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:53.520
<v Speaker 3>and he's coming back at like four or five o'clock.

0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:55.920
<v Speaker 3>And I also, because they was so understaffed, had like

0:16:56.200 --> 0:16:58.560
<v Speaker 3>been on doing all of the lunch orders and things.

0:16:58.600 --> 0:17:01.200
<v Speaker 3>And I passed the baton to another PA. But I

0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:03.960
<v Speaker 3>guess things got messed up. And obviously people take their

0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:07.240
<v Speaker 3>lunches really seriously on low budget projects where everyone's exhausted.

0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:12.040
<v Speaker 3>And when I got back, my boss pulled me aside

0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:14.600
<v Speaker 3>and he was like, I don't know if you're serious

0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:17.359
<v Speaker 3>about wanting to work in this industry, but I know

0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:20.000
<v Speaker 3>how long it takes to drive back from LA, and

0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:22.600
<v Speaker 3>I know that you had to have been doing something else.

0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:25.159
<v Speaker 3>I was a good PA, and I felt so like

0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:26.080
<v Speaker 3>there was nothing.

0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:28.919
<v Speaker 2>I could do to prove him. She's had his belief

0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:32.119
<v Speaker 2>about me, and I had to let it go. Yeah,

0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:33.920
<v Speaker 2>and that is what you have to do. Let them.

0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:36.520
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna use Mel Robbins. We're gonna wrap it up

0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:38.359
<v Speaker 2>with let them, and then I know you.

0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:41.399
<v Speaker 3>I got to read that book with the name of

0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:44.560
<v Speaker 3>episode eleven. Just move on, Just.

0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:48.040
<v Speaker 2>Move on, everybody, move on, because it's almost the weekend,

0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:50.720
<v Speaker 2>all right, Well, we'll hopefully see you next week.