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Speaker 1: Welcome to desperately devoted.

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Speaker 2: Think of us as your favorite neighbors as we chat

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Speaker 2: about life and relationships, all.

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Speaker 3: While we revisit the iconic show Desperate Housewives together.

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Speaker 2: I'm Terry Hatcher, I'm Andrea Bowen.

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Speaker 3: And I'm Emerson Tony.

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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Hi, good to see you, Good to see you.

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Speaker 2: As always happy Thursday. I love our Thursday Bonus episodes.

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Speaker 2: They're my favorite because we just I is it wrong

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Speaker 2: to say, like we just get to be us because

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Speaker 2: like we're also us in the other episode. Now I

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Speaker 2: know anything about this because we're talking about what we

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Speaker 2: really care about.

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Speaker 3: We're desperately devoted to diving into something that strays maybe

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Speaker 3: a little from the path of the immediate episode a

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Speaker 3: little bit.

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Speaker 2: We get to do that. I think of it as

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Speaker 2: like our thursdates.

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Speaker 1: They're like our little You.

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Speaker 2: Really are the best at the word com I know

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Speaker 2: that that has a word. When you do that. What's

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Speaker 2: it called when you put two words together like.

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Speaker 1: That hanging fruit? I don't know. I don't think that's

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Speaker 1: just fairly that impressive.

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Speaker 2: But okay, well we are here still talking about episode eleven.

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Speaker 2: What was it called?

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Speaker 3: Move on?

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Speaker 2: I just you were telling her move on, mom, yeah,

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Speaker 2: move along, move along, we only have twelve minutes.

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Speaker 3: No.

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Speaker 2: But one of the things that really caught my attention,

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Speaker 2: just because I actually think it was you know, deeply

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Speaker 2: emotional for the character, was when Gabby has to go

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Speaker 2: be a car model in the mall because she's so

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Speaker 2: you know, scraping the bottom of the barrel for trying

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Speaker 2: to find money. And well, first of all, it made

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Speaker 2: me think a lot of things, like has anybody had

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Speaker 2: weird jobs, you know, or like jobs they were maybe

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Speaker 2: not didn't love or were ashamed of. But also, I

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Speaker 2: think in a bigger way, I don't know. I've been

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Speaker 2: reading this book Let Them by Mel Robbins, as has

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Speaker 2: by the way, the rest of every world. It's only

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Speaker 2: like the top rated book, the top rated podcast, the

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Speaker 2: top rated everything. But for a while I sort of

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Speaker 2: didn't really get it. And I think this is what

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Speaker 2: a lot of people think. They think like let them,

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Speaker 2: Like what, Okay, I'm just supposed to let everybody do

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Speaker 2: whatever and not care about it. But the follow up

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Speaker 2: to the let them is let me, which is where

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Speaker 2: so you let them do whatever, but then you let

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Speaker 2: me do what I need to do, And it kind

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Speaker 2: of For me, my own version of it is that

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Speaker 2: let me part is feeling like it's giving me the

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Speaker 2: control and the responsibility to react or behave the way

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Speaker 2: I want to, and so you feel less victimized because

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Speaker 2: you feel less like people are doing things to you

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Speaker 2: and more like you still have control of the situation. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: it's somehow bled out to me with this storyline of like,

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Speaker 2: why do we care so much about what people think

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Speaker 2: about us? Why are we so ashamed, you know, by

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Speaker 2: things we feel judged by others? I don't knowly it

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Speaker 2: actually brought up a lot for me in a deep way.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, so I don't know how about you guys. Well,

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Speaker 2: I mean I am working.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to start more macro and then I'm going

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Speaker 3: to get more micro into Gaping's storyline and back to

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Speaker 3: maybe jobs that we have felt embarrassment around, but starting

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Speaker 3: on the macro of why do we care so much

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Speaker 3: about what people think about us? I this is something

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Speaker 3: that I am in my twentieth year of life, really

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Speaker 3: working on being better about going. You know what, it

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Speaker 3: is an illusion that we have control over everyone's perception

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Speaker 3: of us, and a lot of people, some people, friends

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Speaker 3: of friends, people we interact with maybe on a day

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Speaker 3: that's like not our proudest day, they will have a

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Speaker 3: singular experience or no experience, and are perfectly capable of

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Speaker 3: making a judgment about who we may or may not

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Speaker 3: be that we aren't in control of. And I know

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Speaker 3: I've spent a lot of my life being like, oh God,

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Speaker 3: I just want I want everyone to know, like what

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Speaker 3: my heart actually is and how.

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Speaker 2: I actually identify.

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Speaker 3: And recently I've been feeling like, you know what, life

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Speaker 3: is too short for me to be putting energy towards

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Speaker 3: that I know who I am and how I feel

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Speaker 3: about myself when I look in the mirror, and if

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Speaker 3: someone else doesn't share that view of me, it's not

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Speaker 3: in my control and I don't need to internalize it.

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Speaker 3: And I think that that I want to pass that

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Speaker 3: to Gabby, the character in this scene, because our our

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Speaker 3: lives are full of many different stages, and I am

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Speaker 3: definitely someone who you know, working as a creative as

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Speaker 3: we all are working as a writer. I have a

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Speaker 3: lot of friends who are artists, and sometimes they will

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Speaker 3: say things like, oh, I feel like I was born

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Speaker 3: to be a musician, Like I was like I'm here

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Speaker 3: to like paint this painting like it's my calling, and

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Speaker 3: that always makes me a little bit nervous. Honestly, when

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Speaker 3: people identify their own self worth and individuality with their

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Speaker 3: work and career. I mean, I love being a writer.

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Speaker 3: I think it is the biggest joy. I'm so grateful

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Speaker 3: that I get to make a living by creating stories

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Speaker 3: and spend my days doing that. But I always say

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Speaker 3: that if tomorrow writing became inaccessible to me, I would

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Speaker 3: be just as happy of a person doing some other job.

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Speaker 3: And I know that I have the tools to find

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Speaker 3: what that may be, and I think it can be

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Speaker 3: a little bit of a slippery slope. I think a

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Speaker 3: lot of Gabby's shame in this instance comes from she

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Speaker 3: clearly identifies as not just.

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Speaker 2: A model, but a type of model.

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Speaker 3: That then she's imbuing with all these characteristics about what

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Speaker 3: that says about who she is in the world. And

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Speaker 3: I think that can be dangerous when we identify with

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Speaker 3: our work too much.

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Speaker 1: I am so guilty of struggling with identity about my

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Speaker 1: work and what it means to be an actor, because

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Speaker 1: I don't really have memories that predate that being a

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Speaker 1: part of my identity. I started so young that it

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Speaker 1: is so in my it feels like it's cellular that

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Speaker 1: I am an actor, I am a performer, you know,

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Speaker 1: and that that is attached to my own self worth,

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Speaker 1: but also how others view me. And so now that

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Speaker 1: I've been in the industry for close to thirty years

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Speaker 1: being a union member, I've really had to work on

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Speaker 1: separating those two things. That there is me as a person,

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Speaker 1: as a human with a lot more to offer, and

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Speaker 1: then there's me and what I choose to do and

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Speaker 1: the fact that I have chosen a profession that is

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Speaker 1: so unstable as we know, it goes up in waves

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Speaker 1: throughout all the time. You can't be reliant on that

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Speaker 1: as your sole source of confidence, you know, because it's

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Speaker 1: just not sustainable. And over the years, you know, as

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Speaker 1: an adult, transitioning from being a child actor into an

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Speaker 1: adult actor is a bumpy process. You go through years

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Speaker 1: where people just only see you. I mean, people still

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Speaker 1: see me, and I'm grateful in many ways, but just

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Speaker 1: as Julie Meyer, you know, and so you go through

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Speaker 1: this time period where things lean out and then you're

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Speaker 1: having to think, like do I change careers? You know,

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Speaker 1: sometimes you need to get work to pay bills and

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Speaker 1: things like that, and there's all this shame and embarrassment.

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Speaker 2: Attached to it.

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Speaker 1: And so I have been so guilty of picking up

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Speaker 1: different jobs and being worried about like what if someone

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Speaker 1: watched Desperate Housewives or what if someone saw something else

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Speaker 1: I had done and then they go, oh, why is

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Speaker 1: she doing that? You know, which is like there should

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Speaker 1: be none of that, all of that mental load happening

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Speaker 1: in my brain. I should just be like, we all

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Speaker 1: got to work, It's fine. And so, I mean, look,

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Speaker 1: it's for me. It's still very much a work in

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Speaker 1: progress to separate those two things, like my occupation and who.

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Speaker 2: I feel like there was a level of where I

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Speaker 2: used to frame it as like I'm going to put

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Speaker 2: on the Terry Hatcher costume, you know, like like her.

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Speaker 2: Do you say that? And I mean that really, I

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Speaker 2: guess that's more. You know, it's like a crazy duality

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Speaker 2: that I really feel like when I'm on a red carpet,

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Speaker 2: when I'm doing an interview, even this podcast whatever, I'm

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Speaker 2: not full of shit. I mean, you've heard other people,

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Speaker 2: like some of our guests that we've had, you know,

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Speaker 2: like say that like my number one quality, You're not

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Speaker 2: You're not there's no bullshit, like I'm not a faker,

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Speaker 2: you know. But at the same time, the job, the fame,

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Speaker 2: it calls for you to have a front over what

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Speaker 2: might be going on inside. So there is there is

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Speaker 2: this duality that can feel hard. And I mean, at

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Speaker 2: sixty one, I do feel like my sense of value

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Speaker 2: all that, like the thing that you're saying you're still

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Speaker 2: sort of working on, Andrew, and I totally get it,

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Speaker 2: you know, like where you're saying you went from child

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Speaker 2: actor to adult actor. I went from pretty to not pretty,

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Speaker 2: you know. And and I mean people will say to me,

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Speaker 2: you're still pretty whatever, but it's obviously I'm sixty one.

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Speaker 2: I'm not a a an ingenue that's going to be

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Speaker 2: a male's lead in a movie, you know. Like like, so,

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Speaker 2: I think I'm still waiting to get that part that

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Speaker 2: allows me to use the experience in the body that

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Speaker 2: I am now, which I'm looking forward to. I'm not

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Speaker 2: shying away from it. I'm not scared of it. I

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Speaker 2: hope it exists, Like I hope I either create it

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Speaker 2: myself by producing it or writing it, or somebody you know,

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Speaker 2: sees it in me and cast me. But it is

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Speaker 2: interesting how you're doing this evolution in front of people.

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Speaker 3: I'm not in a forward facing profession like being an actor,

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Speaker 3: but I still think growing up with you and seeing

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Speaker 3: that and absorb that, and then also as a writer,

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Speaker 3: you know, there are and some writers do this to

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Speaker 3: varying degrees of success.

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Speaker 2: And I think having actors as parents kind of.

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Speaker 3: Media trained me for being good in the room.

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Speaker 2: But where you do.

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Speaker 3: You go in and you're pitching an idea, and you

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Speaker 3: are you're yourself, but you're also a heightened version of

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Speaker 3: the costume of Emerson, the smart writer who's intellectual but

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Speaker 3: grounded and relatable and funny and charming and professional but

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Speaker 3: also your friend. And that's like the encompassing costume and

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Speaker 3: I have had I think I really learned, and I

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Speaker 3: will call it a skill because it is a skill professionally,

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Speaker 3: but I think it's something I'm working on not kicking

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Speaker 3: into in my personal life because it can also be

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Speaker 3: not A good skill is the ability to bifurcate what

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Speaker 3: is going on in Emerson, the internal world of Emerson

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Speaker 3: as a person, and become Emerson the character of Emerson.

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Speaker 3: You know, I've had like full on dramatic breakups going

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Speaker 3: on and then had to like walk into a big

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Speaker 3: studio room and pitch a movie and turn all of

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Speaker 3: that off.

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Speaker 2: Well, that was sort of like the first the first

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Speaker 2: couple seasons of Housewives, you know, where I had a

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Speaker 2: lot of dramatic stuff happening in my real life and

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Speaker 2: had to show up on set, which I you know,

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Speaker 2: I think I always did the work, but it's not.

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Speaker 2: It's not as easy as it sounds to have like.

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Speaker 1: An ass it can be an asset as well, Like

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Speaker 1: it's hard to figure out what things to allow to

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Speaker 1: sort of one, sometimes you can't control it. Two sometimes

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Speaker 1: you try so hard to control it that you lose

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Speaker 1: part of the realness that can come from letting those

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Speaker 1: things just be. You know, and I hear in both

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Speaker 1: of what you're saying, this thing that we all clearly

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Speaker 1: struggle with as human beings, which is like.

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Speaker 2: How do we show up?

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Speaker 1: How do we put our Terry Hatcher or Andrea Bowen,

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Speaker 1: our Emerson Tenny costumes on? But also, you know, those

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Speaker 1: costumes are authentic and they're real, and they're ever evolving

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Speaker 1: and growing and breathing things. It's it's such a hard thing.

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Speaker 1: I also feel like this is sort of tangentially related

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Speaker 1: but might be interesting to some, which is that I find,

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Speaker 1: and I wonder how you feel about this, Terry. I

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Speaker 1: find as an actor, the hardest thing to portray, honestly

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Speaker 1: is embarrassment. I think it is such a hard emotion

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Speaker 1: to accurately drum up because it's so we so are uncomfortable.

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Speaker 1: That's the whole thing is we're uncomfortable when we experience it,

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Speaker 1: and so manufacturing that can be really harder than like

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Speaker 1: something super emotional or you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: Do you think do you think Gabby in this scene

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Speaker 2: that we're talking about is embarrassed or do you think

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Speaker 2: she's a shame? Yeah? Or is it different?

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Speaker 3: Hmm?

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Speaker 2: Interesting?

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Speaker 1: I think maybe initially it's the embarrassment, like that's sitting up,

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Speaker 1: but then if you unpack it, if she took time

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Speaker 1: to go back, it's probably shame.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Embarrassing is a secondary emotion to shame. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so rapid fire. I mean, I know we're like,

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Speaker 3: these are our little short bonus episodes. What is the

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Speaker 3: most and now that we've unpacked that there's no such

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Speaker 3: thing as an embarrassing job? What is the most embarrassing

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Speaker 3: job you've ever had?

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Speaker 1: Okay, So I I've been an actor in my whole life,

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Speaker 1: as we know, so most of my jobs have been

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Speaker 1: work related, although I did have a stint where I

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Speaker 1: was helping a friend. This is an embarrassing Okay, I'm

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Speaker 1: just gonna say it's not embarrassing. It's just fascinating and interesting.

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Speaker 1: I did have a friend. I do still have this friend.

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Speaker 1: He's wonderful and I assisted him working at a pet crematory.

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Speaker 2: Oh so there's a lot.

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Speaker 3: There that's so embarrassing, Andrea, Now I'm just kidding.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that's crazy. Yeah. What's the biggest thing you learned

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Speaker 2: from it?

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Speaker 1: That people? Pet people are wonderfully, wildly colorful. I will

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Speaker 1: tell you that the first past pet that I reunited

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Speaker 1: with their owner, you know, I wanted to be very

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Speaker 1: delicate about it.

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Speaker 2: I was.

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Speaker 1: I was going to their home to give them their

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Speaker 1: pet was named Liza Minelli, and so I had to

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Speaker 1: figure out how to tell this person, you know, with

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Speaker 1: a straight face, like I have here.

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Speaker 2: I have Liza Minnelli for you anyway, My gosh.

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Speaker 1: So you know, I just learned a little bit more

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Speaker 1: about how colorful pet people are. I am one of them,

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Speaker 1: so I get it. Those are my people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, me too. I wouldn't say. I don't know if

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Speaker 2: this is like embarrassing, but I was a waitress early

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Speaker 2: on here in Los Angeles. I was actually also on

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Speaker 2: a soap opera at the same time. I mean, talk

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Speaker 2: about it, well, I'm now I have like other things

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Speaker 2: coming through my head. What I was going to say

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Speaker 2: is one time I was serving a pizza to a

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Speaker 2: table and then I walked away and the manager pulled

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Speaker 2: me over and she's like, I saw your thumb touched

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Speaker 2: the crust of that pizza. Don't ever do that. And

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Speaker 2: I was like wow, Like she's like with binoculars. Oh,

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Speaker 2: like like, uh, plus, my hands are clean. But okay.

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Speaker 2: So I got like I got shamed by my manager

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Speaker 2: when I was being a waitress for touching a piece

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Speaker 2: of the food. I guess, well I got.

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Speaker 3: I got shamed by my boss when I was first

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Speaker 3: back out in LA during COVID but we were shooting

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Speaker 3: down in San Clemente and I got asked to drive

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Speaker 3: at like one PM up to Los Angeles to pick

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Speaker 3: up makeup and lighting and then back down to San Clemente.

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Speaker 3: And they were doing all this construction on the freeway

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Speaker 3: and it was like closed down to a single lane.

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Speaker 3: It took me like three hours to get back from

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Speaker 3: LA because then it was in rush hour, like by

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Speaker 3: the time I'd gotten up there and gotten the stuff,

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Speaker 3: and he's coming back at like four or five o'clock.

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Speaker 3: And I also, because they was so understaffed, had like

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Speaker 3: been on doing all of the lunch orders and things.

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Speaker 3: And I passed the baton to another PA. But I

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Speaker 3: guess things got messed up. And obviously people take their

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Speaker 3: lunches really seriously on low budget projects where everyone's exhausted.

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Speaker 3: And when I got back, my boss pulled me aside

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Speaker 3: and he was like, I don't know if you're serious

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Speaker 3: about wanting to work in this industry, but I know

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Speaker 3: how long it takes to drive back from LA, and

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Speaker 3: I know that you had to have been doing something else.

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Speaker 3: I was a good PA, and I felt so like

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Speaker 3: there was nothing.

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Speaker 2: I could do to prove him. She's had his belief

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Speaker 2: about me, and I had to let it go. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and that is what you have to do. Let them.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna use Mel Robbins. We're gonna wrap it up

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Speaker 2: with let them, and then I know you.

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Speaker 3: I got to read that book with the name of

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Speaker 3: episode eleven. Just move on, Just.

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Speaker 2: Move on, everybody, move on, because it's almost the weekend,

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Speaker 2: all right, Well, we'll hopefully see you next week.