1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called 6 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: me Ben. We are joined as always with our super 7 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: producer Paul Mission Controlled deconds. Most importantly, you are you. 8 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this the stuff they 9 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 1: don't want you to know now be behind the curtain. 10 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 1: I think we're gonna call this episode either wealthy people 11 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:51,200 Speaker 1: versus taxes or the wealth defense industry. There's a good 12 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: reason for it. If you live in the United States, 13 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: odds are by hook or by crook. You just got 14 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: through tax season. You might have voted a little bit 15 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 1: of scratch. You might have vote a lot. You might 16 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 1: have received a refund, which is always fun. Uh. You may, 17 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 1: like many people, have filed an extension, or like other people, 18 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: you might have had just a lot going on in 19 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:15,680 Speaker 1: life and you let the deadline slip by calling it 20 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:20,040 Speaker 1: a problem for another day. But regardless of how your 21 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 1: personal situation worked out, one thing's for sure. If you're 22 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:26,959 Speaker 1: the majority of people living in the country today, you 23 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,479 Speaker 1: believe the tax system is broken. In fact, a very 24 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:34,480 Speaker 1: recent poll just indicated that about fifty seven percent of 25 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 1: adults in the US believe they personally as individuals are 26 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:43,559 Speaker 1: taxed at an unfairly high rate. And that belief, oddly enough, 27 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: goes across every single imagined demographic. Anything. You look at 28 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 1: any group of people, no matter how you slice the population, 29 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: more than half of them are saying this is malarkey. 30 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: To quote President Biden. Uh. And if you ask those 31 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: same folks, about six out of ten of them will 32 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: tell you that the wealthy in this country very rarely 33 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 1: pay their fair share. So what gives today's question? Is 34 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 1: there a conspiracy of foot Well? To answer that, we 35 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: have to start at the beginning. Here are the facts 36 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:21,920 Speaker 1: we think about doing this episode every time we have 37 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: to pay taxes, right, it's is it all three of us? Oh? Yeah? 38 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 1: And it just seems like the more you dig into 39 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 1: the numbers and how much is being taken out of 40 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 1: your check and compare that to the perceived value you 41 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:38,079 Speaker 1: get out of paying taxes, Uh, it starts to get 42 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 1: more and more frustrating. I think I've kind of harangued 43 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 1: about this on the podcast before, like, I don't know 44 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 1: where my tax money goes or what it does for 45 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: me or my family personally. We still have to pay 46 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:51,679 Speaker 1: healthcare costs out of our pocket, We still have to 47 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: pay for all kinds of insurance and extra things, and 48 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 1: I just don't really understand what the tax system does 49 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: for me. Yes, and we've talked on the show many 50 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: times specifically about how for us and for many of you, 51 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,919 Speaker 1: we feel the very same way. What the heck is 52 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: going on here? Why do I have to pay so much? 53 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: And then why do I read stories sometimes about companies 54 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:17,799 Speaker 1: and extremely wealthy people somehow getting to play by an 55 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 1: entirely different set of rules when it comes to what 56 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:24,639 Speaker 1: the government takes off the top the cream that they 57 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 1: get off the top of the stuff we make. Yeah, 58 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: like the majority of US residents, folks we on this 59 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: show have always sort of assumed very very wealthy entities 60 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 1: functioned by a different set of legal constraints, and they 61 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: do so to avoid ponying up what could be called 62 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 1: their fair share. To understand whether that's true, we have 63 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: to understand some basics. First, Hating taxes is straight up 64 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 1: patriotic in this country. It is a huge part of 65 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: US history. Think about it this way. Protests against taxes 66 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: in the seventeen sixties led to the American Revolution. The 67 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 1: US is literally founded on the idea of hating paying taxes. 68 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: In that case, he has to his taxation without representation. 69 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:18,920 Speaker 1: But the point stands, and taxes play a huge juge 70 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: role today as they did in the past. It is 71 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: currently the primary official source of funding for the US government. 72 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,359 Speaker 1: That's what people mean when they say your tax dollars 73 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:33,160 Speaker 1: of work. And you know, when everything runs as it should, 74 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:35,160 Speaker 1: we know there's a hot button issues, so we want 75 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:38,480 Speaker 1: to be as objective as possible when everything runs as 76 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 1: it should. In theory, we can think of the United 77 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 1: States or any country as kind of a club. And 78 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:50,720 Speaker 1: just like any club, you pay your membership dues. Right, 79 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:53,279 Speaker 1: those dues are part of what makes you a member 80 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 1: of this club. And again in theory, you get a 81 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:59,280 Speaker 1: quick pro quote, you get benefits for that, the rule 82 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 1: of law, a safe place to conduct business and raise 83 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 1: your kids. You get infrastructure like trash collection, water service, 84 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: so on and so on and so on. But the 85 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 1: problem is people have said this system is broken since 86 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, before the US became a thing right now, 87 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 1: not even not even on the internet right now, amid 88 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 1: your own friends and family networks, you're gonna find a 89 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 1: lot of people who disagree. You'll see no shortage of 90 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: people saying we need higher taxes on certain things, like 91 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 1: maybe we need higher taxes uh that wealthy people actually pay, 92 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:39,039 Speaker 1: which we'll get into. Or we need higher morality taxes, 93 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:44,159 Speaker 1: right like alcohol or or cigarettes or whatever recreational vice 94 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: should cost more. But then you also see a lot 95 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 1: of people, many people who will say, you know, what, 96 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 1: taxes should just be a flat percentage, doesn't matter who 97 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 1: you are, all in this together, it's too confusing. Or 98 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:00,080 Speaker 1: you'll even hear people who say these are all to 99 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: a little more. On the libertarian side will say something 100 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 1: like some forms of taxes should be eliminated altogether. No 101 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,359 Speaker 1: more inheritance tax. The people who don't want an inheritance tax, 102 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: by the way, call it a death tax. But that's 103 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: simply a pr move, you know what I mean. That's 104 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: they're describing the same thing in a way that is 105 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: intended to manipulate the audience. Still, you gotta pay it, right. 106 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 1: What's the Ben Franklin quote? Nothing certain but death and taxes. 107 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 1: I can't remember if you actually said that anyhow. And 108 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: there's another good quote that says taxation is theft. Is 109 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 1: that Emma Goldberg? I think, yeah, that's a let's that's 110 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 1: a good one. It starts to feel that way look 111 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 1: at it. Just to go back to your point, Ben, 112 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 1: the quick pro quote thing that we do as Americans, 113 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 1: as citizens, as people who live in a certain state 114 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: or municipality or local area, we do see some benefits 115 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:58,359 Speaker 1: right from the taxes that we pay. But when you 116 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 1: think about something like water filtration and treatment systems and 117 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 1: things like that, we all still pay our local municipality 118 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: or the county we live in for water services every month. 119 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 1: All of us do that, no matter who you are. 120 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: And there's still things like that where if there's going 121 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: to be a road or specific highway or repairs or 122 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: things like that, generally there are extra like sales tax, 123 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 1: like an extra percentage gets as added onto sales tax 124 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: in a local area to pay for certain projects. So 125 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 1: it always just feels like the actual income taxes that 126 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 1: we pay don't go to the things we think they should, 127 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: or maybe that we've been told they would at some 128 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: point in our lives, right and there's an argument here 129 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 1: that we can make via analogy. So supporters of this system, 130 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 1: as imperfect as it is, would say that many of 131 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: the things funded through taxation are things that the American 132 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: population takes for granted because they've collectively grown up in 133 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 1: countries where you don't have to worry about stuff like this. 134 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 1: You don't necessarily have to worry by large about clean water. 135 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 1: Again in theory, right, the the analogy you can make 136 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: is um the function of the human brain. Human beings 137 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: take their brains for granted. That's why people still believe 138 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: that factoid, that untrue thing that sounds true about humans 139 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 1: using only ten percent of your brain. You're using it's 140 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 1: doing a lot of stuff that you don't appreciate, like 141 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 1: making sure you don't have to consciously try to produce 142 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:36,199 Speaker 1: a heartbeat at a stable rhythm. Your brains taking care 143 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 1: of that in the background. Treat it better, you know, 144 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: take it out on the town once in a while. Uh, 145 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: not a recommendation for d m T just yet, but 146 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: but it is so very true. You know, people pay 147 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 1: taxes not for the most part, not out of some 148 00:08:54,240 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 1: sense of civic pride nor of patriotism, but to avoid punishment. 149 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: If you fail to pay your taxes, you will run 150 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: into legal trouble again in theory, if you're most people, 151 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 1: we're talking stuff like penalties for late payment, even wage garnishments. Uh, 152 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:15,720 Speaker 1: it can. It can get nasty pretty quickly. And that's 153 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:18,559 Speaker 1: why there's so much money involved, because a lot of 154 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: people don't want to get in trouble. Just in twenty nineteen, 155 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: people paid one point six trillion dollars in this country 156 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 1: and individual income taxes. This powers the engine of government 157 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 1: and who boy, people are pissed about it. Honestly, some 158 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 1: issues are pretty practical, like what you were saying earlier. 159 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: You have to pay, but you can't dictate how Uncle 160 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: Sam spends your money. If, for instance, you are a 161 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: person who has strong religious convictions, you can't say I 162 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 1: will pay this money, but you have to do things 163 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 1: that are in line with my personal spiritual beliefs. You 164 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 1: can't object to a war while you're paying taxes. You 165 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 1: can't say, here's my stuff, but not one penny father 166 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: you of it can go to that proxy war in 167 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: Syria and you can't say, like, you can't specify stuff 168 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 1: they have to do right. You can't say I'm paying this, 169 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 1: but all of it needs to be spent on that 170 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:18,840 Speaker 1: pothole by my cousin's place. Yeah, but you can donate 171 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: a significant amount of your income to a religious organization 172 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 1: and avoid taxes at least some taxes that way, that's true, yea, 173 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: or any number of charities, or if you you'll you'll 174 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:34,199 Speaker 1: see when you pay your income taxes in this country, 175 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: you'll have options to donate to several things right there. 176 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 1: They're baked into the form, Like you can give money 177 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 1: to the Generic Federal Fund for campaigns for presidential campaigns. 178 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: I don't know how many people do that. I haven't 179 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 1: looked into the numbers, but I imagine they're freely available 180 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 1: and there are a dozen people approximately. And it's such 181 00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 1: a terrible timing, right, It's like at the very and 182 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 1: where you've been through this sometimes harrowing look at your 183 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 1: finances and like, also, by the way, do you feel 184 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: like giving more money to someone? Oh, and this just 185 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 1: goes to this doesn't just go to the the candidate, 186 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: you might like, this goes to both of them, which 187 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: theoretically is a great thing. If we if we all 188 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: just paid that in their worn't see packs, maybe we'd 189 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:27,559 Speaker 1: be in a better place. Who knows. I don't know 190 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 1: really quickly. That quote that I mentioned earlier, taxation is theft. 191 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 1: The whole thing is. Taxation is theft, purely and simply, 192 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 1: even though it is theft on a grand, colossal scale 193 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:40,200 Speaker 1: which no acknowledged criminals could hope to match. It is 194 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,679 Speaker 1: a compulsory seizure of the property of the state's inhabitants 195 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:46,079 Speaker 1: or subjects. And it wasn't Im Golberg, it was Murray 196 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 1: in Rothbard, who was an economist from the Austrian school. 197 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: I think that's pretty it's pretty interesting perspective. Yeah, And 198 00:11:55,080 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: the full Franklin quote is our new constitution is now estabbled. 199 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 1: Everything seems to promise it will be durable. But in 200 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 1: this world nothing is certain except death and taxes, and 201 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 1: death might not be certain in the near to mid 202 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:14,079 Speaker 1: future for the for the people who don't have to 203 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: pay tax, that's the way to get around the quote 204 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:20,319 Speaker 1: unquote death tax. I don't know. Yeah, of course, it's 205 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: a hot button issue and there's a lot of psychology 206 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 1: in it. Every human being you meet is going to 207 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 1: be highly sensitive to perceived The quality happiness in many 208 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 1: people's personal lives is not an absolute, self contained thing. 209 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 1: It is relative. People don't want to just be doing well, 210 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:43,319 Speaker 1: They want to be doing better than other people they know. 211 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: For many people, happiness depends on thinking other people are 212 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:52,080 Speaker 1: doing worse, which is so messed up, but it's true 213 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: and and a lot of that's why a lot of 214 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 1: spiritual schools of thought work assiduously to to get past 215 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:03,839 Speaker 1: those roadblocks. But when you think of taxation, you're thinking, well, 216 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: I have my own life. I already have so many expenses, 217 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 1: especially when inflation is climbing, everything costs more than it 218 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 1: used to. I want my kids to have a decent future. 219 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 1: How come I am How I am subsidizing other people 220 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 1: who don't pull their their weight. That's another belief that 221 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:27,440 Speaker 1: you'll find in a significant minority of the US public. 222 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:31,080 Speaker 1: They think that they are being forced to support people 223 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: instead of those people being responsible for their own mistakes. 224 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 1: That's a huge oversimplification, and there are a lot of 225 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:41,440 Speaker 1: different ways to look at it, but we're just we're 226 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: walking through really quickly the problems people have with taxation 227 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 1: in this country, regardless of their ideology, and without even 228 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:56,560 Speaker 1: getting to the wealthy, everybody knows their tons of loopholes, credits, deductions, 229 00:13:56,640 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 1: other exceptions that come into play, and we can say 230 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 1: the system is definitely rigged in a couple of ways 231 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: that are provable. It's so complicated, it's intensely confusing. That 232 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: is provably at least in part by design. Private companies 233 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:17,319 Speaker 1: profit off the confusion. They have lobbied to make taxations 234 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: seem time consuming and difficult for the average person to 235 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 1: do on their own. We're talking about all the software 236 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 1: programs that the i r S dot Gov leads you 237 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 1: to on a Google search that are not part of 238 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: i RS dot gov. Their companies that are making money 239 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 1: off of you, mistaking them for that making great money 240 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 1: off of you. Not long ago, we were we were 241 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 1: owned by a holding company that also owned tax Act. 242 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 1: Was that the one? I think? So? Yeah, And I mean, look, 243 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: we've got a little bit of insider you know info 244 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: here at least perspective on how important that business became 245 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: for the larger company that once owned us as uh 246 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 1: when tax season came around and then they just it 247 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: just kept getting bigger and bigger and bigger, and it 248 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 1: was a huge profit center for the larger company that 249 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 1: we once were owned by. Yeah, those were weird days, man, 250 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 1: weird days. A lot of the a lot of the 251 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 1: top cats were in a great mood around April. Right 252 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 1: after April. It was funny because that was the time 253 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 1: to ask them for crazy stuff that they usually wouldn't 254 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 1: put in the budget. It's so close to getting a 255 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 1: fake astronaut costume. Caught that guy in a good day anyway. Yeah, 256 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: it's uh, some of these companies are getting in trouble. Uh. 257 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: Illustrative of this fact, the parent company of Turbo Tax 258 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 1: is a gigantic fintech financial technology company called into It, 259 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 1: and they were very recently ordered to pay a one 260 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 1: hundred and forty one million dollar fine for misleading people, 261 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 1: misleading people who weren't wealthy enough to hire a tax 262 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 1: person or wealthy enough to have a family office, and 263 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 1: those people would end up paying for service is that 264 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 1: are technically free and because no one went to jail 265 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:09,800 Speaker 1: because their punishment was a fine. As we said in 266 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: the past, if a crime results in a fine, that 267 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 1: means it's a cost of doing business. Ultimately, it's the 268 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 1: only way to look at it. Man, I just used 269 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: a service to pay my taxes. One of these like that, uh, 270 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 1: And it's just crazy, Like I they I paid the 271 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: minimum of what you can put what you can pay 272 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: to have your taxes file through one of those, and 273 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 1: it was still like fifty hundred. I think it was 274 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 1: a hundred bucks altogether to file my taxes, which I 275 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 1: could do right now by printing out a couple of 276 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 1: pieces of paper and filling it out and sending it in. 277 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 1: We totally could. But it's like if you make one 278 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 1: little mistake or tick the wrong box like that, come 279 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: back to haunt you. I think it's like we live 280 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 1: in a in a constant state of fear and anxiety 281 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: about bureaucracy and about um, just feeling like we don't 282 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 1: actually understand any of it. Therefore we should just leave 283 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 1: it to the professionals, right um, But like to pay 284 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 1: a human being to do it, or a tax prep 285 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 1: service where we actually sit down and then go through 286 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: and itemize your stuff where you that's even more expensive. 287 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:15,200 Speaker 1: That can be up to like three to five dollars. 288 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 1: They certainly can save you money, but Leaven, the notion 289 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 1: that you need someone to help you find loopholes to 290 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: save you money is a little weird in and of itself, 291 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:28,119 Speaker 1: don't you think? And it's it's a big part of this, uh, 292 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,719 Speaker 1: because the idea is, well, if I'm paying someone a 293 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:36,399 Speaker 1: couple of hundred to save me several thousand, how is 294 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 1: that not a no brainer? That's at that point. That's 295 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 1: a very quick investment. It's a very smart one and 296 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 1: it's something that people often do. Everybody does it if 297 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:48,880 Speaker 1: they have the means in the time. Currently, if you've 298 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:50,920 Speaker 1: got to hit that bracket first, right, you have to. 299 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: You have to make enough money or have enough money 300 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: to get to that level. So, and that's what we're 301 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:57,920 Speaker 1: gonna see throughout this episode. You you have to have 302 00:17:58,040 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: enough money to get here, and then to get there, 303 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 1: and then to get there, and somehow your taxes get 304 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: reduced every time you make more money somehow. Yeah. Yeah, 305 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: Because there's a doughnut hole too that a lot of 306 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:12,160 Speaker 1: people in the audience find themselves in today. Uh. Currently 307 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 1: the US has seven federal income tax brackets. Your income 308 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 1: at the state level or community level, that taxation is 309 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,879 Speaker 1: going to differ wherever you go. It's just a message spaghetti. 310 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 1: It's a huge bag of badgers. These brackets are based 311 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 1: on a number of factors, one of the primary ones 312 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:35,639 Speaker 1: being income income from work foreshadowing. Uh. And you can 313 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:40,160 Speaker 1: look at any number of websites that will give you 314 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 1: a quick group of grids or visual depictions to help 315 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 1: you estimate where you would be. I like to recommend 316 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: smart asset dot com because the name is funny. That's 317 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 1: literally the only only calculus there. It's just the one 318 00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: that had a pun. Uh. So okay, so that person 319 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: in this average person and you say, okay, that's what 320 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 1: I have to pay. They're looking at smart asset or 321 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:08,439 Speaker 1: something like that, and you say, well, how much the 322 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 1: wealthy people pay. This is where we go to the 323 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:16,880 Speaker 1: stories you mentioned, Matt Sicklically Predictably, these stories come out 324 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 1: around tax seas and saying they're they're excoriating the well 325 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:23,919 Speaker 1: to do individuals and corporations. They're saying, you know, Apple 326 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,880 Speaker 1: is doing some sketchy in Ireland to get away from 327 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: paying taxes, or insert billionaire here is screw it over 328 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 1: the American public. But these stories don't all come from 329 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:39,359 Speaker 1: you know nothing. They don't come from like muck raking 330 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 1: journalists or disinfo agents. A lot of times the specific 331 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 1: stuff these folks are reporting on is true, and sometimes 332 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: it comes straight from the proverbial horse's mouth. Warren Buffett, 333 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: a multiple occasions what are the richest guys in the country, 334 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:57,159 Speaker 1: has pointed out that he personally thinks it's weird that 335 00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 1: he pays a lower tax rate than his own secretary, 336 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 1: who spoiler alert does okay, but doesn't make war in 337 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: Buffet money nowhere near that. And it's like the Department 338 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: of Treasury even says that they say that in just 339 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,879 Speaker 1: just last year, wealthy people were dodging at least a 340 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: hundred and sixty three billion dollars worth of income taxes 341 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:24,359 Speaker 1: every single year. Yeah, on the War and Buffett thing. 342 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: We're going to talk about this after a break from 343 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,439 Speaker 1: our sponsor in just a moment. But one of the 344 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 1: main reasons his tax trays that way, he's a billion 345 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 1: or hundreds of billions of dollars. But the dudes income 346 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:42,400 Speaker 1: actual income as would be you know, associated with that term, 347 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:46,879 Speaker 1: it's actually relatively low. Guys. Yeah, we'll get to it. 348 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: So this is the question, is this true? Is the 349 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:54,199 Speaker 1: game rigged, and if so, is it rigged in a 350 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:58,440 Speaker 1: criminal way to the top one percent so called actually 351 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,200 Speaker 1: pay taxes. We're gonna paul us for word from our 352 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,640 Speaker 1: sponsor and then we'll dive in, just like Uncle Scrooge 353 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:08,399 Speaker 1: dives into that vault filled with filled with coins. I 354 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 1: like him when he spits the coins with capital gains. 355 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:17,359 Speaker 1: And you can't dive into a pull of coins, you 356 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:27,920 Speaker 1: will break yourself. Don't try it at home. Here's where 357 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: it gets crazy. Uh, Okay, Well, the one percent don't 358 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:36,159 Speaker 1: don't pay taxes the way that you do, not really 359 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:40,119 Speaker 1: not the same way an ordinary person would. And in 360 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 1: another way you could say they do. It's a financial pickle, 361 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's a paradoxical statement at times. We 362 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:49,920 Speaker 1: have to understand from the jump is that very very 363 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 1: wealthy people look at money in a very different way 364 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 1: to to many of the very wealthy people in the 365 00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: world today. Money is a tool simply used to generate 366 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:06,399 Speaker 1: more wealth. As such, you want to maximize the effectiveness 367 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 1: of that tool, you know what I mean, keep it 368 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 1: in good working order. And anything that goes against the 369 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 1: effectiveness of your pre existing wealth or value or money, 370 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 1: uh is therefore anathema to your position. In most cases, 371 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 1: there are cases of people who feel ideologically compelled to 372 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,479 Speaker 1: spend their money making the world a better place instead 373 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 1: of making themselves more money. But Unfortunately they're they're kind 374 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 1: of rare. You know, they're like the lobsters that are 375 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 1: half blue and half read. They exist, but it's sort 376 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 1: of big news when you find one. So anyhow, it 377 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 1: is the pot with three D glasses. They're amazing to 378 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 1: look out with three D glasses. Nice billionaires and those 379 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:54,040 Speaker 1: two to tone lobsters. But here's here's the thing that 380 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 1: you foreshadowed it beautifully. In this country, taxation looks at 381 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,920 Speaker 1: a few things in a very different light. Income from work. 382 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 1: You know, if you have a job or career that 383 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 1: generates hourly wages, you have a fixed salary, you have 384 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,680 Speaker 1: like a commission rate, stuff like that that is taxed 385 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:19,680 Speaker 1: differently than income from wealth. And the vast majority, virtually 386 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 1: all of the top one percent or point one percent 387 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: people that you here talked about in the news, virtually 388 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 1: all of their money comes from wealth, not their actual job, 389 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: if they have one. Their income is from assets, stockholdings, property, 390 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 1: fine art, moving across the moving across the world in freeports, 391 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: or other investments. And so what that means, like he's 392 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: let's say you own like two million dollars worth of 393 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 1: some very cool stock David Busters, whatever the stock goes up, 394 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,680 Speaker 1: the value you have, the pieces in your art collection 395 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:05,360 Speaker 1: get more expensive because somebody in Vanity Fair or Paris 396 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 1: Review wrote a cool think piece about Bosciot or what 397 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 1: have you. Uh, the real estate market shifts in your favor, 398 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,359 Speaker 1: then that means you're wealth increases too. And you didn't 399 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 1: really do anything except maybe ask the editor of Paris 400 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,879 Speaker 1: Review to green light that Boscot piece in exchange for 401 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,680 Speaker 1: a donation to you know, a foundation that you're both 402 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,880 Speaker 1: on the board, others Ctera, etcetera. Well, and it's weird 403 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 1: to think about because that wealth, while on paper, is amazing, 404 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,160 Speaker 1: it's huge. It's oh my god, so rich. Look at 405 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:39,439 Speaker 1: my wealth. That money sits in places like stocks and 406 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 1: bonds and other things that aren't tangible. You can't actually 407 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:46,879 Speaker 1: pay for anything with those. But our system is built 408 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 1: to where you can sell off, let's say, a small 409 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 1: amount of stock or even a hefty amount of stock 410 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: that doesn't fully reduce that wealth bubble you've generated, but 411 00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 1: gives you enough liquid income, actual cash to functional. You'd think, well, okay, 412 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 1: that money that comes through that would be treated the 413 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: same way as income, but no, in our country, that's 414 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 1: treated in a completely different way, and that is pretty 415 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 1: baffling to me, just that fact alone. It's a convenient law, 416 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 1: you know, it's a convenient policy and process that certainly 417 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 1: benefits the very well to do. Does person want to 418 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 1: introduce Chan Ching Huang, who is the executive director of 419 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 1: the Tax Law Center over at the n y U 420 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 1: S School of Law. And Huong points out that income 421 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:39,680 Speaker 1: is only subject to taxation if these people who own 422 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 1: these assets sell the asset on the way out, it 423 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 1: can get taxed. And this can mean that people are 424 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:54,160 Speaker 1: hot of high net worth can choose when or whether 425 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 1: they pay taxes on the growth of their wealth. And 426 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:01,120 Speaker 1: if you look at specific examples, it gets even weirder. 427 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: That thirties seven percent the highest tax rate all right, 428 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 1: right now, that applies to individuals who are making a 429 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 1: little more than half a million dollars a year and 430 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,680 Speaker 1: for mary couples making a little more than six hundred 431 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 1: twenties something thousand dollars a year. If you want to 432 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 1: avoid the tax rate in that income bracket, here's here's 433 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 1: an easy move for you. Just give yourself a crappy salary. 434 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 1: It works every time, you know what I mean. Also, 435 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,359 Speaker 1: it looks really good if your pr folks are on 436 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 1: the ball, will be like this ceo refuses to take 437 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: more than a dollar and salary until they get those 438 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:45,159 Speaker 1: stock prices back up and until employee uh demands or 439 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 1: met just one dollar. How does he do it? What 440 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,679 Speaker 1: a hero? Well, it's why you'll commonly see in the 441 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 1: Fortune five hundred companies CEOs who make about four hundred 442 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 1: thousand dollars a year on paper and then the rest 443 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:03,120 Speaker 1: of their income is all in stock options. And that's 444 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,680 Speaker 1: why we recently on this show talked about the trend 445 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 1: of paying CEOs in stock options and why that's become 446 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: such a big deal and why they make so much 447 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 1: ungodly amounts of money in stock options, but specifically in 448 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 1: that way. Well, so that means that they're paying less 449 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,639 Speaker 1: income tax on their salary where they're still paying capital 450 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,959 Speaker 1: gains taxes right if they sell their stock, if they 451 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 1: sell their stocks. So it's it's like, you know, and 452 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:34,399 Speaker 1: when um um Elon Musk you know, just bought you know, 453 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:38,120 Speaker 1: collected the financing to buy Twitter, he was not liquid 454 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 1: and nearly you know, forty billion to the tune of 455 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,159 Speaker 1: forty billion dollars, so he had to get loans that 456 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,919 Speaker 1: he leveraged against his holding whosout actually having to liquidate, 457 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,400 Speaker 1: which is another superpower of the ultra rich, right, which 458 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 1: we'll get to in just a moment. For to stay 459 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,440 Speaker 1: on this shalary thing. Here, Bezos, Jeff Bezos, you know him, 460 00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:01,479 Speaker 1: He collected something like seven nine to eighty grant in 461 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:06,040 Speaker 1: salary as a CEO of Amazon. That was on purpose. 462 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: That's not making or breaking his bank. He his light 463 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 1: bill is going to be fine. And then we see 464 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 1: we see a laundry list, a cavalcade of corporate goliaths, 465 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 1: people like Steve Jobs, people like Meg Whitman from Hewlett Packard, 466 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,359 Speaker 1: the co founders of Google, Sergey and Larry, and of 467 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 1: course Mark Zuckerberg. They have all at some point taken 468 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 1: a salary of literally one U s dollar per year 469 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 1: because this is a smart, rational move from their perspective, 470 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 1: and it works, and it's also not illegal yet. Right, 471 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: there are people on the usually on the left of 472 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:48,280 Speaker 1: the political bell curve who tried to adjust this, like 473 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders In they both had their 474 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: wealth tax proposals, which very simply says, we want to 475 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:02,480 Speaker 1: find a way to make it such that income from 476 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 1: wealth or assets is taken into account kind of the 477 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 1: same way income from work is taken into account. But 478 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 1: wealth and income two very different things. One great example, 479 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 1: let's say you're a new hotshot surgeon. You're very good, 480 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 1: You come out of your residency, and you are making 481 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 1: instantly four hundred thousand dollars a year since we brought 482 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,920 Speaker 1: that number up earlier. But you are a self made person. 483 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 1: You don't have generational wealth hidden and you have like 484 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 1: five hundred thousand in student loans. You're it's gonna take 485 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,200 Speaker 1: a while for your your wealth to like, for your 486 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,719 Speaker 1: income to transform into wealth, even if you're savvy with 487 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: investments and whatnot. So there there are there's a huge difference. 488 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 1: And a lot of people who become very very wealthy 489 00:29:55,120 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 1: become billionaires. They are profiting from the work one their 490 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 1: ancestors did. That's that's a not a ding on them 491 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 1: at all. So saying they're bad people, that's just saying 492 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 1: this is how the system works. It creates positive feedback loops. 493 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 1: And that's why that's why these wealth plans. You know America, 494 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 1: the land of temporarily embarrassed millionaires. Uh, that's that's why 495 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 1: these these wealth tax plans lead to so much controversy 496 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 1: because people say, well, what about when I become a billionaire? Right? 497 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 1: What about when I become a multimillionaire? Uh? Why am 498 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 1: I gonna have this crab in the bucket mentality of 499 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 1: punishing people as it were, for success? And then these 500 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: proposals usually fade from the spotlight because I'm gonna be honest, 501 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 1: talking about taxes bores that out of the average person. 502 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 1: It really does, And that is awesome for the folks 503 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 1: at the top because they can continue making a killing 504 00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 1: off loopholes, financial accounting, parkour. They want you to be bored. 505 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 1: Many of them don't particularly want things to change spoiler alert. 506 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 1: Why would they like? Why? Why? Uh? Well, no, I 507 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 1: can't think of anything I like. If you knew if 508 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 1: if you knew that the local local community in your 509 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:26,360 Speaker 1: area was terrified of eclipses and felt like they had 510 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 1: to leave a pile of precious gems near the mouth 511 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,600 Speaker 1: of this cave to stop an eclipse, and you knew 512 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,600 Speaker 1: that the eclipse were just and regardless, but you were 513 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 1: the one who gathered up the gems at the end, 514 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,840 Speaker 1: like and the right before the eclipse ended, Why would 515 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 1: you stop people again got nothing. But you know, you're 516 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 1: always gonna have people that argue that the system as 517 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:55,840 Speaker 1: is shouldn't be changed and it's doing exactly what it 518 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 1: needs to be doing. That assets already get tax and 519 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 1: possibly they conject these these uh anonymous vase conjecture um 520 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 1: at an unfair rate potentially than you have folks on 521 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 1: the other side you'll see arguing that wealth can be 522 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 1: transformed um into spending money without any fear of losing 523 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 1: it to taxation. So if income from wealth acts differently 524 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 1: UM and is tax differently than income from work, how 525 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 1: is it used to purchase something like I was talking 526 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: about a minute ago, How does this asset, this um 527 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 1: non liquid asset translate into spendable money um and like 528 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 1: we were getting to a minute ago. It is about leverage. 529 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 1: That is the superpower of the ultra rich. They have 530 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: all this stuff that is that exists, that's worth something, 531 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:50,120 Speaker 1: and some of it can appreciate, some of it can 532 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 1: depreciate over time, and you can take a tax break 533 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 1: from depreciation of assets. But at the end of the day, 534 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 1: it's worth something and you don't have to sell it 535 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 1: to borrow against it. Always hear about people like Donald Trump, 536 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:05,840 Speaker 1: for example, being over leveraged. Um, that is when you 537 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 1: borrow too much against your assets, And the fact is 538 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:13,360 Speaker 1: banks will let you do that to a certain decree. Well, 539 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 1: there's a whole other thing there of once you're once 540 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 1: the bank has lent you a certain amount of money, 541 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:20,920 Speaker 1: even if you're failing, they will continue to lend you money, 542 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 1: hoping that their money just doesn't go away, and you 543 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:28,760 Speaker 1: declare bankruptcy and maybe maybe this person that we've given 544 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,360 Speaker 1: all this money to will actually do something profitable and 545 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:36,320 Speaker 1: pay us back at least some right, shut out Deutscha Bank. Yeah, 546 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 1: it's like there's a there's another Uh, there's another great 547 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:44,080 Speaker 1: pithy observation here. Uh. I can't remember the original source, 548 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 1: but it goes something like, if you owe the bank 549 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 1: a hundred thousand dollars, that's your problem. If you owe 550 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,240 Speaker 1: the bank five hundred million dollars, it's the bank's problem, 551 00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:00,160 Speaker 1: you know. Like, Unfortunately that's true because they also have 552 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:04,400 Speaker 1: their own thresholds at which they will be stretched too 553 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:09,279 Speaker 1: thin or over leverage. But but if you are a billionaire, 554 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:13,120 Speaker 1: you are much easier to loan money too. Of course, 555 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 1: people like Larry Ellison can open a nine point seven 556 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:21,440 Speaker 1: billion dollar credit line based on the stock shares. You 557 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:23,920 Speaker 1: can do like you have you have the assets to 558 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:28,520 Speaker 1: bring to bear. Elon Musk used Tesla stock got a 559 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:32,399 Speaker 1: loan for five fifty million. Most people can't do that. 560 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:35,839 Speaker 1: And because this borrowed money, this is the clever thing, 561 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 1: This is the infomercial part. But wait, there's more. Because 562 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:43,279 Speaker 1: this borrowed money doesn't count as income, that money is 563 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:47,360 Speaker 1: also not taxable. It is objectively a good grift. The 564 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,360 Speaker 1: biggest drawback is that it's not a grift most people 565 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 1: can afford. You know, you can't take out huge loans. 566 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 1: You are nowhere near as safe a risk as someone 567 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,840 Speaker 1: with millions or billions of dollars worth wealth through credit 568 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 1: score doesn't matter at that point. But even like being 569 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,360 Speaker 1: i don't know, like middle class wealthy, like owning a 570 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,319 Speaker 1: nice house, like in an up and coming area, you 571 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:12,800 Speaker 1: could leverage that into buying another house and turning it 572 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,919 Speaker 1: into rental property. Then sort of the cycle goes from there. 573 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:19,120 Speaker 1: Then you have two assets, um that are not liquid, 574 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:22,800 Speaker 1: but they just give you more, like borrowing more allows 575 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,720 Speaker 1: you to borrow more. It's just weird, but it also 576 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,520 Speaker 1: weirdly makes sense. Like I've got a friend who got 577 00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,719 Speaker 1: into the property um game, just like buying. You bought 578 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:33,799 Speaker 1: one home, then leverage that and to buying another one, 579 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,239 Speaker 1: then bought several other rental properties on foreclosure and things, 580 00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:39,640 Speaker 1: and now he owns like seven properties and has you 581 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 1: know um property management companies that take care of all 582 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:45,440 Speaker 1: the rent and everything, and they're constantly generating passive income. 583 00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 1: But you couldn't do that, hey, if you had really 584 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 1: bad credit, and me if you didn't have any assets, 585 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 1: it's impossible. And he also is a good landlord and 586 00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:59,560 Speaker 1: that he charges below market value for rent, So he's 587 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:01,239 Speaker 1: like of the good ones, you know what I mean. 588 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:03,680 Speaker 1: So it's like you can be part of, you know, 589 00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,719 Speaker 1: helping solve problems in a situation if you have money. 590 00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:10,480 Speaker 1: But many super wealthy people do not look at it 591 00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:12,440 Speaker 1: that way, and they look at it entirely is how 592 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:16,000 Speaker 1: can they benefit themselves and further and big in their fortunes. 593 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 1: We're talking about motivations, right. Motivations are a hard thing 594 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,200 Speaker 1: to know, but we can look at the logic of it. 595 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:27,120 Speaker 1: One of course, people who are wealthy want to have 596 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:32,400 Speaker 1: a good lifestyle, what they consider a good lifestyle. Using 597 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:36,239 Speaker 1: us as small amount of those liquid assets as possible. 598 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:42,040 Speaker 1: And then secondly, this is this is interesting. There's that 599 00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:47,200 Speaker 1: desire to use wealth productively to create more wealth. A 600 00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:51,080 Speaker 1: few million in less might not seem substantial, right if 601 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:52,799 Speaker 1: you're looking at it from the outside, But if you 602 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,920 Speaker 1: know that you have the access to create those positive 603 00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 1: feedback loops, then in your mind, you're not losing a 604 00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 1: few milk. You're lose ten times or a hundred times 605 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,960 Speaker 1: that amount that it could have become if it were 606 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:10,160 Speaker 1: properly invested. And then there's you know, there's the other 607 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 1: idea about taxes on assets we want to avoid that 608 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,280 Speaker 1: we don't have to get into that today. The truth 609 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:21,760 Speaker 1: of the matter is easily understandable. If of your stuff 610 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:26,160 Speaker 1: is in assets, you don't want it to be taxed. 611 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:30,719 Speaker 1: That just makes sense. Don't get me, says says this individual. 612 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,080 Speaker 1: There are other ways to fix the system, you guys. 613 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:36,040 Speaker 1: I just have to add one thing in here that 614 00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:38,400 Speaker 1: we just haven't mentioned yet. We kind of talked around 615 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:42,320 Speaker 1: it a bit, but the concept of if if someone 616 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:46,200 Speaker 1: makes just let's use those tax brackets before. If someone 617 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:52,279 Speaker 1: individual makes six and fifty thou dollars in income. We 618 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:54,719 Speaker 1: know in the United states, they're gonna get taxed for 619 00:37:54,880 --> 00:38:00,640 Speaker 1: federal taxes. But if some individual sells off six hundred 620 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:05,280 Speaker 1: and fifty thousand dollars worth of let's say Amazon stock, 621 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:11,839 Speaker 1: that the tax rate is under right around. So two 622 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,800 Speaker 1: individuals who are this, you know, have the same amount 623 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,520 Speaker 1: of money coming into them that they can effectively use 624 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:21,400 Speaker 1: to make purchases. If one is from wealth from selling 625 00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,600 Speaker 1: off assets that they own, they're going to get taxed 626 00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:28,960 Speaker 1: sev less than the person who actually made that much 627 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:33,040 Speaker 1: money by working. That's crazy. Well, we should also point 628 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:36,640 Speaker 1: out that because those are progressive marginal tax rates, I 629 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,280 Speaker 1: believe the way it goes now is that thirty seven 630 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:43,799 Speaker 1: percent kicks in on income above four dred thousand dollars. 631 00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:47,440 Speaker 1: So it's not like the whole six d tax at 632 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:52,759 Speaker 1: Oh sure, got it that. But I mean that's a 633 00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:55,160 Speaker 1: great that's a great example. And there are people who 634 00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:58,520 Speaker 1: will argue that capital gains taxes already too high. There 635 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:01,360 Speaker 1: are people who feel like they're paying multiple times on it. 636 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:06,439 Speaker 1: And you can freely read these dialogues or these perspectives 637 00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:11,000 Speaker 1: just know that yet again, everybody knows the system is 638 00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:14,720 Speaker 1: broken in some way. It's like all these factors we've named. 639 00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:19,640 Speaker 1: They are clear problems with the system. But in short, 640 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:24,719 Speaker 1: wealth is like fire. Okay, it's like fire in that 641 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:28,799 Speaker 1: wealth wants to generate more wealth, and it will do 642 00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:32,560 Speaker 1: so with no limits so long as the conditions are right, 643 00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:36,640 Speaker 1: just the same way that a small camp fire turns 644 00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:40,600 Speaker 1: into a wildfire in the right environment out west. So 645 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:43,759 Speaker 1: when we so, this means we need to talk about conditions, 646 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,239 Speaker 1: and this is where we run into the real conspiracies 647 00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:48,960 Speaker 1: of play. We'll be back with more after a word 648 00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:59,279 Speaker 1: from our sponsors. All Right, we've returned. The problem goes 649 00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:04,720 Speaker 1: deeper than the idea of handling assets or the idea 650 00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:08,879 Speaker 1: of paying oneself in uh a less easily taxable way. 651 00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:12,120 Speaker 1: You see, people with high net worth also leverage their 652 00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:17,440 Speaker 1: resources and their influence to maintain or exacerbate those conditions 653 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,840 Speaker 1: that allow their wealth to spread into an inferno. Uh. 654 00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:25,239 Speaker 1: They do this by hiring high end financial specialists. This 655 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:27,439 Speaker 1: is this is not what you're thinking about if you're 656 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:31,160 Speaker 1: thinking about your CP A pal that you talked to, 657 00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:35,680 Speaker 1: you know, in April or whatever. Uh. They are hitmen, 658 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:39,120 Speaker 1: hit folk, their mercenaries, and they're very very good at 659 00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:42,200 Speaker 1: what they do. Uh. They those folks alone make millions 660 00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:44,879 Speaker 1: of dollars a year. You'll see why in a second. Uh. 661 00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:47,560 Speaker 1: The high net worth folks also spend a lot of 662 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:53,040 Speaker 1: time making strategic donations to politicians. Get this on both 663 00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:55,319 Speaker 1: sides of the aisle, you know, depending which way the 664 00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:58,800 Speaker 1: monetary wind is blowing. And then they also invest heavily 665 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:04,319 Speaker 1: in policies. We're action groups that keep and maintain those conditions. 666 00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,600 Speaker 1: We've got to introduce an author named Chuck Collins who 667 00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:11,120 Speaker 1: wrote a book called The Wealth Hoarders, and he talks 668 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:13,680 Speaker 1: about how this industry goes far, far past what we 669 00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:17,360 Speaker 1: could describe as a broken tax system. Uh. Collins is 670 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:21,720 Speaker 1: a really interesting case. He he was openly born into 671 00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:25,239 Speaker 1: a lot of money. He was he inherited part of 672 00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:28,359 Speaker 1: the Oscar Meyer fortune. He gave way almost all of it, 673 00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:32,200 Speaker 1: switched sides and started trying to figure this stuff out. 674 00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:36,400 Speaker 1: So his perspective is really interesting. He has popularized the 675 00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:41,520 Speaker 1: term wealth defense industry. That sounds I don't know, kind 676 00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:47,719 Speaker 1: of metal. It does like courts paints, but not really 677 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:52,000 Speaker 1: nice suits. M hm m m. So it's what you're 678 00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:57,319 Speaker 1: describing already been. It's the group of financial professionals and 679 00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:02,239 Speaker 1: law professionals. Who all work to just like, I don't know, 680 00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:09,000 Speaker 1: to shepherd this barge of cash that his like generational wealth, 681 00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,040 Speaker 1: and they're just they're ferrying it down the river and 682 00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,040 Speaker 1: just making sure nothing gets in its way. And then 683 00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:18,200 Speaker 1: as they go along, they're constantly just throwing more piles 684 00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,840 Speaker 1: of cash onto it. And somehow the piles of cash 685 00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:26,240 Speaker 1: just like generate more from nothing, They just like grow. 686 00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:31,560 Speaker 1: It's weird. It reminds me of this will be the 687 00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:35,399 Speaker 1: only always study reference that I make in this show, 688 00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:40,320 Speaker 1: but it reminds me of when Charlie Day asked, Uh, 689 00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:44,719 Speaker 1: Frank Reynolds character what their business does. He's working is 690 00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:49,120 Speaker 1: like the intern or mentee of Danny DeVito's character, and 691 00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:53,440 Speaker 1: he says Frank, frankly, what do we make man? And 692 00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:55,560 Speaker 1: Frank goes make What do you mean? What do we make? 693 00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:58,880 Speaker 1: We make money? It's like, yeah, but like what do 694 00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:03,799 Speaker 1: we actually make? And it's it's a beautifully dystopian conversation 695 00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,400 Speaker 1: that I think describes what you're talking about. Just doubling 696 00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:17,440 Speaker 1: and compounding percentages and interests. Right. Uh, He says Collins, 697 00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:25,040 Speaker 1: not Danny DeVito, that as of seven point six trillion 698 00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:30,520 Speaker 1: dollars worth of private wealth has been hidden by this industry. 699 00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:33,400 Speaker 1: It doesn't it's not up for debate and tax returns 700 00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:37,520 Speaker 1: because it doesn't show up. It has become invisible except 701 00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:41,239 Speaker 1: when people need to benefit from it, he says. He 702 00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:44,719 Speaker 1: describes it as being in an ownership, limbo trust or 703 00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:49,880 Speaker 1: partnerships or offshore tax havens. Uh. This isn't being measured, 704 00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:54,120 Speaker 1: he says, in the current understanding of inequality. Which is 705 00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:57,279 Speaker 1: weird because this remind I know this has I can't 706 00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:59,520 Speaker 1: be the only one. This is like shades of the 707 00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:06,040 Speaker 1: Panama papers, right, Like that was just one group and 708 00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:09,360 Speaker 1: it took a team of experts to figure out how 709 00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:13,520 Speaker 1: the shell games all matched together. And you know. Collins 710 00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:16,880 Speaker 1: also makes it clear that this is a long game 711 00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:21,000 Speaker 1: by saying, quote, a lot of the hidden wealth activities 712 00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:25,440 Speaker 1: take place in the second third generations UM, meaning that 713 00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:31,760 Speaker 1: people who are able to amass incredible amounts of wealth 714 00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:38,640 Speaker 1: usually the originating source of that wealth. Uh. Let's say 715 00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:43,120 Speaker 1: a patriarch, for example, of of a multigenerational family. UM. 716 00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:48,000 Speaker 1: That person maybe a little more closely monitored, but when 717 00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:51,120 Speaker 1: it comes time to actually move that money around to 718 00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:54,359 Speaker 1: their successors, they have a ton of tools at their 719 00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:58,640 Speaker 1: disposal to start removing that money from the system completely. 720 00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:05,000 Speaker 1: Things like rusts, offshore banking, which we've discussed, offshore corporations, 721 00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:09,440 Speaker 1: shell companies, etcetera. Things like that, secrecy, jurisdictions, and and 722 00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:15,239 Speaker 1: too many more to go into here. One particularly, I 723 00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:18,959 Speaker 1: don't know, kind of sketchy and popular technique these days 724 00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:22,279 Speaker 1: is the family office, which is something that happens um 725 00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:24,919 Speaker 1: in families worth at least two d and fifty million 726 00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:30,319 Speaker 1: dollars that bring their wealth defense uh folks entirely under 727 00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:35,439 Speaker 1: their literal roof in house. Um. It's it's a it's 728 00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:38,600 Speaker 1: a power move for sure that is only available to 729 00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:43,200 Speaker 1: that upper, upper, upper echelon of of the wealthy. Well, 730 00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:44,959 Speaker 1: this this is the thing we got to talk about. 731 00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:47,920 Speaker 1: It has to do with that death tax, the estate tax, 732 00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:53,239 Speaker 1: the money when it changes hands from matriarch, patriarch who 733 00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:57,080 Speaker 1: you know officially controls a vast fortune and then that 734 00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:01,960 Speaker 1: person dies and their errors whoever they maybe inherit that wealth. 735 00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:04,640 Speaker 1: We we talked about how money, how when it's in 736 00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:07,920 Speaker 1: an account or it's in a series of stocks that 737 00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:10,400 Speaker 1: are growing in the amount of money that they're worth, 738 00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:13,840 Speaker 1: then you know that fund is growing that the dollar 739 00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:17,640 Speaker 1: amount associated with those stocks grows, and all of that 740 00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:21,319 Speaker 1: is calculated. All of that uh is not taxed. It's 741 00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:23,879 Speaker 1: just growing and growing and growing and growing. Then when 742 00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:26,800 Speaker 1: that person dies and it gets transferred, the way taxes 743 00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:29,920 Speaker 1: are levied on that amount of money is very different 744 00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:33,400 Speaker 1: than how most people would be interacting with money if 745 00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:37,440 Speaker 1: it's being transferred like that. Taxes are only levied on 746 00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:40,920 Speaker 1: the amount of money that is gained, So the capital 747 00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:44,359 Speaker 1: gains and I forget some of the terminology here, ben, 748 00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:48,439 Speaker 1: but the interest in the stuff that is grown from 749 00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:52,160 Speaker 1: that amount of money after it is transferred. So if 750 00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:55,360 Speaker 1: you imagine that pile of money on that barge growing 751 00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:58,239 Speaker 1: and growing and growing, then it gets transferred over to 752 00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:03,240 Speaker 1: somebody else, there's no taxes levied on that transfer. Only 753 00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:06,880 Speaker 1: only taxes and and UH fines and stuff that can 754 00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:09,000 Speaker 1: be levied on that amount of money after. You know, 755 00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:11,960 Speaker 1: the so called death tax and stuff is on the 756 00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:15,320 Speaker 1: amount of money that grows from that giant barge after 757 00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:20,040 Speaker 1: the transfer, rather than the wealth that was generated over 758 00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:22,800 Speaker 1: decades and decades and decades of it just sitting in 759 00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:27,160 Speaker 1: accounts and growing exactly exactly. Then you know, on the 760 00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:32,200 Speaker 1: other side, people primarily the beneficiaries of this, or people 761 00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:37,160 Speaker 1: who subscribed to the propaganda made by those beneficiaries. Uh, 762 00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:41,960 Speaker 1: their argument will be, you are punishing the successful. You 763 00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:46,840 Speaker 1: are stealing right from someone who who just managed to 764 00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:50,000 Speaker 1: earn this. You know, did they take advantage of loopholes 765 00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:52,279 Speaker 1: in the system, Yes, but not in a legal way. 766 00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:56,279 Speaker 1: These family offices could be tremendously powerful. I'd like to 767 00:47:56,320 --> 00:48:00,280 Speaker 1: shout out David DeJong, who we interviewed a while act. 768 00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:02,720 Speaker 1: He had to go head to head with some family 769 00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:06,680 Speaker 1: offices who would rather not have it be known that 770 00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:11,040 Speaker 1: they're profiting from Nazi collaboration, even though they very much are. 771 00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:13,120 Speaker 1: It's a good book. It's a good book. It's called 772 00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:17,160 Speaker 1: Nazi Billionaires. He's not really being subtle about it. But uh, 773 00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:20,320 Speaker 1: this this goes to something else. And and the reason 774 00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:23,920 Speaker 1: we're taking time to point out these differing perspectives is 775 00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:29,760 Speaker 1: because we are building toward an overall point. Uh. This stuff. 776 00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:33,240 Speaker 1: We're talking about these creative ways of moving and hiding money. 777 00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:37,719 Speaker 1: They're not the only operation. Imagine, you know, if you 778 00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:41,840 Speaker 1: play a video game where you can dual wheeled weapons, 779 00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:46,359 Speaker 1: so you can say they're left hand is doing this 780 00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:50,600 Speaker 1: moving money? Right, that's the offshore stuff, that's the shell companies, 781 00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:54,480 Speaker 1: that's those are the defensive moves. Their right hand holds 782 00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:58,839 Speaker 1: a sword. The right hand is where we would attribute 783 00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:04,280 Speaker 1: the aggressive move. Some more AGROS strategies, things like using 784 00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:08,480 Speaker 1: political influence in smaller states or communities to get more 785 00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:14,400 Speaker 1: friendly laws, to strip regulations, to stop oversight, right to 786 00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:18,120 Speaker 1: make sure things stay boring for the public. And in particular, 787 00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:21,560 Speaker 1: one great example is the terra part the i r S. Look, 788 00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:25,000 Speaker 1: we get it. No one loves the Inner Internal Revenue Service. 789 00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:28,480 Speaker 1: They're not gonna they're not gonna win favorite U S 790 00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:33,120 Speaker 1: department contest anytime soon. I don't know who would. Honestly, 791 00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:36,839 Speaker 1: I don't know who would. They're literally kind of like 792 00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:40,200 Speaker 1: one of the shadowy villain villain this kind of organizations 793 00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:45,319 Speaker 1: in everything, everywhere, all at once. They're often demonized in 794 00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:46,879 Speaker 1: that way. I'm sure there's some great people that work 795 00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:49,480 Speaker 1: for the i r S, but yeah, they're this kind 796 00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:52,200 Speaker 1: of like creepy, shadowy organization that everyone sort of looks 797 00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:54,520 Speaker 1: at is like they're coming for me, you know, it's 798 00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:56,600 Speaker 1: only a matter of time. And again there's that fear 799 00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:58,880 Speaker 1: quotation or it's like, oh if I don't take that box. 800 00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:00,600 Speaker 1: Right then the I R S gonna get me that 801 00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:05,400 Speaker 1: a certain boogeyman mentality around them absolutely and especially in 802 00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:09,800 Speaker 1: everything everywhere, all at once. Uh, that mentality is coming 803 00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:13,440 Speaker 1: from a very real place. We're about to see exactly why. 804 00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:18,600 Speaker 1: So if you can increasingly cripple the I r S, 805 00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:23,360 Speaker 1: then it becomes increasingly easier for you or the people 806 00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:28,480 Speaker 1: you work for to keep these games running. And this is, 807 00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:31,719 Speaker 1: by the way, the reason the I r S is 808 00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:34,120 Speaker 1: much more likely to audit you if you are a 809 00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:37,120 Speaker 1: person listening to this show, or you if you are 810 00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:41,920 Speaker 1: a small laundromat owner. Right. Uh, they're auditing you because 811 00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:45,320 Speaker 1: they know that you don't have a team of badass 812 00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:48,319 Speaker 1: lawyers in your corner. You don't have accountants who can 813 00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:53,000 Speaker 1: kind of like uh full weird financial gymnastics the way 814 00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:56,480 Speaker 1: Neo flies through the matrix. It's just you and you 815 00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:58,920 Speaker 1: probably have to go to work, you have other stuff 816 00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:03,839 Speaker 1: to do. So this means, like the problems compounded, it's 817 00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:06,960 Speaker 1: probably not worth the I r S is time to 818 00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:10,799 Speaker 1: hunt these big fish too often, right, think of the 819 00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:13,680 Speaker 1: money you'll lose fighting them in court. They want the 820 00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:17,880 Speaker 1: small fry because the small fry is defenseless, and on 821 00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,320 Speaker 1: paper it looks like a win for the I R 822 00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:24,680 Speaker 1: s when they discover small time wrongdoing and in the background, 823 00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:29,640 Speaker 1: the Leviathans move unfettered. This is part of a larger 824 00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:34,080 Speaker 1: thing called Starving the Beast. Starving the Beast also is 825 00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:37,759 Speaker 1: very metal. The album is called Starving the Beast by 826 00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:43,520 Speaker 1: defense industry. Yes, the number and the number of the 827 00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:47,040 Speaker 1: Starving Beast UH. It is a strategy of cutting taxes 828 00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:51,359 Speaker 1: and then leveraging the resulting UM deficits as a motivation 829 00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:55,759 Speaker 1: to cut funding for government institutions UM. Some people who 830 00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:59,480 Speaker 1: are into this technique or method UM believe that the 831 00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:02,640 Speaker 1: ultimate goal is to move government functions to the private 832 00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:06,200 Speaker 1: industry UM, but most often the goal is really just 833 00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:10,759 Speaker 1: to reduce tax burdens for Ding Ding Ding the wealthy man. 834 00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:15,120 Speaker 1: Why would I just don't understand, man, You're just making 835 00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:18,480 Speaker 1: money because you've got money and it's just sitting there 836 00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:21,719 Speaker 1: and you're just making money and you don't wanna like 837 00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:25,799 Speaker 1: I just don't. I don't get it. But but can't 838 00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:28,840 Speaker 1: we can we pivot? Maybe this is slightly the silver 839 00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:32,479 Speaker 1: lining there is. You know, there is a push from 840 00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:35,960 Speaker 1: some corners of the government to tax the wealthy, you 841 00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:38,439 Speaker 1: know too, And I've actually there was an NPR piece 842 00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:40,560 Speaker 1: recently I heard where it was a bunch of wealthy 843 00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:43,319 Speaker 1: people saying, yeah, tax me, I want you to tax me. 844 00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:46,280 Speaker 1: I want to help. I don't I am, I am good. 845 00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:50,640 Speaker 1: I you know, this money could go to help reduce 846 00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:55,120 Speaker 1: the tax burden on the less fortunate. And I I 847 00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:58,160 Speaker 1: really appreciated that perspective. And I mean there's an argument 848 00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:00,920 Speaker 1: to be made that that this makes a lot of sense. 849 00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:03,439 Speaker 1: But why does it? Why does it never fly? Ben? 850 00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:07,799 Speaker 1: Why does it never fly? Oh? Because again it's back 851 00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:11,680 Speaker 1: to the two tone lobster idea. Those people do exist, 852 00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:15,480 Speaker 1: but they're rare enough to be newsworthy. Right. The majority 853 00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:17,680 Speaker 1: of people who are just fine with this or not 854 00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:28,720 Speaker 1: in the news. They're fundraisers their political conferences. Uh yeah yeah. 855 00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:31,399 Speaker 1: And you know, we to be clear, we haven't met 856 00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:35,640 Speaker 1: the majority of these people were not not unnecessarily vilifying folks. 857 00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:38,920 Speaker 1: We're talking about a system and a system that's broken. 858 00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:42,480 Speaker 1: This is either pretty depressing or it's pretty inspiring, depending 859 00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:48,120 Speaker 1: on your perspective where you're coming from. But this is 860 00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:50,520 Speaker 1: what this is what we can all come together on 861 00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:53,080 Speaker 1: on a hot button issue that has a lot of propaganda, 862 00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:57,400 Speaker 1: has a lot of tribalism and politics tied up into 863 00:53:57,480 --> 00:54:00,560 Speaker 1: it by design, I would argue, Uh, the issue is 864 00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:04,880 Speaker 1: not necessarily that the system is broken. Everybody agrees on 865 00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:09,759 Speaker 1: that except for very few. The issue instead is that 866 00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:14,360 Speaker 1: the people who are quote unquote winning the game have 867 00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:17,920 Speaker 1: also one the ability to change the rules of the 868 00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:21,920 Speaker 1: game as they see fit. So imagine, to attempt a 869 00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:27,640 Speaker 1: sports analogy, imagine that after winning x amounts of World Series, 870 00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:33,000 Speaker 1: the Yankees get get the legal right to change rules 871 00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:37,600 Speaker 1: of baseball as they see fit, maybe they get one 872 00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:41,200 Speaker 1: per World Series, And as they rack up those World 873 00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:44,239 Speaker 1: Series wins, they're able to change the laws at an 874 00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:48,840 Speaker 1: increasing pace, and they become increasingly favorable to the Yankees 875 00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:54,640 Speaker 1: and increasingly disadvantageous to any other team. That's kind of 876 00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:57,640 Speaker 1: what's happening with the U. S. Tax system. As as 877 00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:02,640 Speaker 1: oversimplified as it is to say there's a conspiracy at play, 878 00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:06,439 Speaker 1: shadows at George carlin Man, this is a depressing one. 879 00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:10,680 Speaker 1: We need a red and blue lobster superhero in real 880 00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:16,080 Speaker 1: life who is invulnerable, invincible if you will, who has 881 00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:21,360 Speaker 1: the power to enforce good on the ultra wealthy in 882 00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:27,439 Speaker 1: the Cayman Islands and other attacks havens. So yeah, using 883 00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:32,520 Speaker 1: his his claws, presumably his dual wielding both the shielding 884 00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:37,400 Speaker 1: and some kind of spiky bit. Is he a castor 885 00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:39,960 Speaker 1: you know what kind of he does? You have? Like 886 00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:43,400 Speaker 1: a magic crap claw cracker? Uh? Yeah, I can shoot 887 00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:46,800 Speaker 1: projectiles at you, and it's especially tough on your horse. 888 00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:50,239 Speaker 1: Even on your horse, it's hard to avoid, especially when 889 00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:52,080 Speaker 1: he drags that claw on the ground and then just 890 00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:54,440 Speaker 1: swipes it up at you. You know, it's terrifying when 891 00:55:54,440 --> 00:56:00,440 Speaker 1: he's he runs at people's sideways like this kind of 892 00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:06,560 Speaker 1: be afraid the super rich, be afraid. And also, yeah, 893 00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:10,920 Speaker 1: keep up with the lobster shellfish crabbynology. We're not saying 894 00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:15,680 Speaker 1: this to um again unnecessarily vilify people we haven't met. 895 00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:19,760 Speaker 1: We're just showing you there's evidence about how this system works. 896 00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:23,279 Speaker 1: The rules are being changed, the feedback loops are there. 897 00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:26,480 Speaker 1: If we'd love to hear your input on this, we'd 898 00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:28,400 Speaker 1: love to hear what your idea of a solution is, 899 00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:32,040 Speaker 1: if you believe a solution exists. We try to be 900 00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:41,360 Speaker 1: easy to find online Facebook, Twitter, YouTube at conspiracy Stuff, 901 00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:46,520 Speaker 1: Instagram at conspiracy stuff show. Those are the ways you 902 00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:48,440 Speaker 1: can find us on the Internet, but there's other ways too. 903 00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:53,399 Speaker 1: In a world where you don't like social media. Instead 904 00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:56,719 Speaker 1: pick up your phone and call one eight three three 905 00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:59,520 Speaker 1: st d w y t K. You're gonna hear a 906 00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:02,319 Speaker 1: little mu music when you call in. Give yourself a 907 00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:04,799 Speaker 1: cool nickname. You've got three minutes say whatever you'd like. 908 00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:08,600 Speaker 1: Please include the statement you can or you cannot use 909 00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:11,759 Speaker 1: my name and voice on the air. We would appreciate 910 00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:14,160 Speaker 1: that very much. If you've got more to say than 911 00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:16,760 Speaker 1: you can fit in that three minute voicemail message, why 912 00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:19,560 Speaker 1: not instead send us a good old fashioned email. We 913 00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:42,240 Speaker 1: are conspiracy at i heeart radio dot com. Stuff they 914 00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:44,160 Speaker 1: don't want you to know is a production of I 915 00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:47,400 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit 916 00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:50,160 Speaker 1: the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 917 00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:51,400 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.