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Speaker 1: NATO Secretary General jin Stoltenberg, thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: joining Bloomberg TV.

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Speaker 2: Thanks much for having me.

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Speaker 1: So we' here from President Biden today and he was

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Speaker 1: steadfast about US support for Ukraine. At the same time

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Speaker 1: he was speaking, Speaker McCarthy from the House of Representatives.

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Speaker 1: Leading the House of Representatives said that there are concerns

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Speaker 1: about oversight for US dollars going to Ukraine. He has

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Speaker 1: a lot of questions for President Zelensky. He'll be heading

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Speaker 1: to Washington. Are you concerned about the US AID and

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Speaker 1: US support continuing to help Ukraine.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm confident of the United States, ask all the

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Speaker 2: native allies will continue to support the Ukraine, because it

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Speaker 2: would be a tragedy for Ukrainians if President Putin wins

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Speaker 2: in Ukraine, but it will also be dangerous for US.

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Speaker 2: We will be more vulnerable because than a message to him,

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Speaker 2: but also to China is that when they use military force,

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Speaker 2: when they violent international law and invade another country, they

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Speaker 2: get what they want and that will make us more vulnerable.

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Speaker 2: So it's in our security interest to support Ukraine. And

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Speaker 2: therefore I'm confident that the United States will come to

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Speaker 2: need to support Ukraine.

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Speaker 1: It's not just in the US there is this feeling

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Speaker 1: of war fatigue. Obviously, this would be easier if there

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Speaker 1: was almost a timeline when American individuals and American taxpayers

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Speaker 1: knew there is an end to this. What are you

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Speaker 1: seeing on the ground in terms of the counter offensive?

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Speaker 2: So, first of all, what we have seen is that

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Speaker 2: the support we provide to Ukraine is making a huge difference.

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Speaker 2: That's the best proof that actually in the weapons we

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Speaker 2: are delivering actually reaches the front times. Because we have

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Speaker 2: to remember where we started. At the beginning of this war,

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Speaker 2: many believed and many also also believe that Ukraine would

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Speaker 2: fall within weeks and Kia will fall within days. We

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Speaker 2: have seen the opposite. The Ukraine have been able to

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Speaker 2: liberate the north around Kiev, the eastern Hartkiv and then

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Speaker 2: the southern Fason And now they.

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Speaker 1: Are at the moment do you think they're winning, Well.

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Speaker 2: There are then no'm conducting an offensive. They are gradually

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Speaker 2: gaining ground. Would all would like to see that go faster,

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Speaker 2: but of course they are faced with drug in Russian

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Speaker 2: defensive lines, enormous amount of minds and that takes time.

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Speaker 2: But alternative not to support them, which will be much

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Speaker 2: more costly for US in the long run, because then

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Speaker 2: we will be more vulnerable for Russian or Chinese corercion

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Speaker 2: miditary jets. And therefore we have to ensure that present

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Speaker 2: put in losers in Ukraine, is.

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Speaker 1: There more pressure to strike a peace agreement.

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Speaker 2: It's for Ukrainians to decide when the time is right

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Speaker 2: to and when the condition conditions are right to sit down.

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Speaker 2: So far, there are no indications that Russia wants to

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Speaker 2: sit down and negotiate just and lasting peace. So if

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Speaker 2: we want peace, if we want a negotiated outcome, the

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Speaker 2: best way of achieving that is to strengthen Ukraine on

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Speaker 2: the battlefield, because that's the only way to convince Putty

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Speaker 2: that he will not win on the battlefield but has

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Speaker 2: to sit down and negotiate losting piece. So the strength

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Speaker 2: on the battlefield, the sides, the strength on the negotiating

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Speaker 2: table that therefore military support is the way to peace.

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Speaker 1: I want to ask you about NATO spending. I spoke

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Speaker 1: to Aneline a bare Back on Sunday and she talked

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Speaker 1: about how it was a shock with the Trump administration,

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Speaker 1: not just questioning US being part of NATO, but really

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Speaker 1: at the foundation where Trump was after was that everyone

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Speaker 1: pulled their weight and hit two percent targets. Germany is

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Speaker 1: now not doing a two percent annually on their target.

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Speaker 1: Has anything changed, Yes, a.

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Speaker 2: Lot has changed. We made a decision in to twenty

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Speaker 2: fourteen that all allies should spend two percent of GDP

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Speaker 2: on defence. Within a decade, since then, NATO Allies, all

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Speaker 2: eight allies have increased defense spending. More and more allies

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Speaker 2: are reached in the target of two percent for defense,

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Speaker 2: and in total we have added four one hundred and

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Speaker 2: fifty billion extra for defense across Europe and Canada. Then,

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Speaker 2: of course I want all those are not yet that

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Speaker 2: two percent to be there. Germany will be there soon,

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Speaker 2: all the big allies will be there soon. So things

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Speaker 2: are really moving in the right direction.

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Speaker 1: But it's a mistake for them to not put it

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Speaker 1: in legal text because all our shots in Vilnia said

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Speaker 1: we will hit an annual target of two percent.

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Speaker 2: Well, allies have done this in different ways. What matters

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Speaker 2: is that the money is pouring in. I mean, the

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Speaker 2: Allies are really increasing defense spending. This year, defense spending

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Speaker 2: across Europe and Canda increase by eight point three percent

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Speaker 2: in real terms. That's the biggest increase in decades in ATO,

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Speaker 2: and they do so because they realize that we live

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Speaker 2: in a more dangerous world and also realize that it

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Speaker 2: has to be a fair burden shame within the anniance,

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Speaker 2: which is also demonstrated in the support Ukraine. The United

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Speaker 2: States has provided significant and unpresented support and that's great,

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Speaker 2: but European allies have also provided tens or billion in

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Speaker 2: military support to Ukraine together with Canada, and they're also

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Speaker 2: providing a lot of economic and human Italian support. So

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Speaker 2: our support Ukraine demonstrates what we can achieve when we

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Speaker 2: have burdenshing between North America and Europe in.

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Speaker 1: Supporting Akrain, and NATO is expanding. And you met with Erwin,

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Speaker 1: the President of Turkey while here alongside you and General Assembly,

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Speaker 1: what is your sense about Sweden actually joining NATO? Because

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Speaker 1: Erwin has also been making some comments about his concerns

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Speaker 1: that what he's still seeing in Sweden that unnerves him

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Speaker 1: and the Turkish electorate.

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Speaker 2: Well, Turkeia has some legitimate security concerns, especially related to terrorism.

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Speaker 2: No old Native Allies suffered more tiest attacks than Turkya

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Speaker 2: and PKK is not only a titist organization in Turkia,

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Speaker 2: but it's recognized as a tarist organization across the whole alliance,

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Speaker 2: and therefore I welcome that Sweden has decided to work

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Speaker 2: more closer with Turkia in finding these Tirist organizations, and

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Speaker 2: some of them are also very close a link to organized

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Speaker 2: crime in Sweden. The tist organizations in.

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Speaker 1: That has the one told you Parliament will vote on

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Speaker 1: in October.

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Speaker 2: Well. Adoan stated very clearly both in meetings with me

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Speaker 2: in a joint statement that we agreed and also publicly

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Speaker 2: in press conferences that they will ratify the accession protocol

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Speaker 2: for Sweden. And he also stated clearly that this will

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Speaker 2: happen as soon as possible, meaning that the Turkish parliament

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Speaker 2: needs to convene and they will convene later on this world.

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Speaker 1: The meaning we saw last week between Kim Jong un

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Speaker 1: and Vladimir Putin, I imagine was concerning to you, how

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Speaker 1: much do you think North Korea is really going to

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Speaker 1: be supplying Russia in the sense that do you think

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Speaker 1: it'll make an impact actually on the battlefield.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's a bit early to say how much they

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Speaker 2: will deliver. Any support to Russia's illegal war will be

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Speaker 2: the wrong thing to do it will be a violation

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Speaker 2: of you and Security councilor solutions agreed here in New

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Speaker 2: York many times. But it also demonstrates how isolated Russia is.

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Speaker 2: They need to go to North Korea to get support,

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Speaker 2: to try to get support, and this is a big

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Speaker 2: contrast to Ukraine, which receives supports from now military support

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Speaker 2: from more than fifty nations. They meet in something called

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Speaker 2: the Ukraine Contact Group led by the United States, mobilizing

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Speaker 2: support across NATO allies and other departing countries. So that's

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Speaker 2: a big difference.

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Speaker 1: For that ammunition, they have to go to North Korea,

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Speaker 1: but for non lethal trade, they're still trading a ton

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Speaker 1: with China. At some point, do you foresee China stepping

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Speaker 1: over that red line and providing more support to Putin So.

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Speaker 2: Well, what we have seen for a long time is

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Speaker 2: that China is supporting Ukraine's sorry Russia's war efforts by

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Speaker 2: propping up their economy, but also by spreading the Russian

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Speaker 2: narrative about this uh this war. And therefore it will

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Speaker 2: be a big mistake if China also provides lethal aid.

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Speaker 2: And that has been a message from the United States

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Speaker 2: from net Asset. They should not do that.

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Speaker 1: President Biden has called Shi Jimpin a dictator a number

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Speaker 1: of times. Anelina Baerbach also labeled him a dictator while

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Speaker 1: she was in the United States. Do you prescribe prescribe

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Speaker 1: to that? Do you think NATO views Hi Jimping as

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Speaker 1: a dictator?

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Speaker 2: Well, we don't view China as an adversary. I have

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Speaker 2: used the phrase and authoritarian country. They don't share our values.

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Speaker 2: They don't believe in democracy, freedom of express of speech, of media,

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Speaker 2: and therefore we need to take very seriously. When China

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Speaker 2: now is growing, becoming a stronger and strong and military,

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Speaker 2: investing heavily in new military equipment for weapons, it just

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Speaker 2: demonstrates the importance of NATO because if the United States

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Speaker 2: is concerned about China, which I understand, and then it's

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Speaker 2: even more important to keep your friends anallies close. And

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Speaker 2: through NATO, the United States has more than thirty friends analyies,

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Speaker 2: and together we represent fifty percent of the world's military

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Speaker 2: mind and fifty percent of the world's economic might. So

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Speaker 2: as long as the United States stay together with all

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Speaker 2: the allies in NATO, we are safe. I'm able to

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Speaker 2: deal with any threat, time challenge from any country in

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Speaker 2: the world

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Speaker 1: NATO Secretary General Jen Stoltenberg,