WEBVTT - Bill Payne 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:12.640 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 0:00:13.280 --> 0:00:17.320 My guest today is keyboardist extraordinaire. 0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:20.279 Bill Payn Bill, good to have you on the podcast. Oh, 0:00:20.400 --> 0:00:22.240 it's a pleasure to be here. Thanks so much for 0:00:22.239 --> 0:00:22.720 having me. 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:26.599 Okay. Sometimes you're referred to his Bill. Sometimes you're referred 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:29.760 to his Billy. Do you care what's going on there? 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:34.120 Not often? I mean my mother finally called me Billy 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:38.240 for a while when that was the rage. I normally 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:40.440 would people ask I say it's Bill. But if they 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:42.680 want to say Billy, just don't call me late for dinner. 0:00:43.960 --> 0:00:48.760 Okay. So you're out with Little Feet now, you were 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:51.600 out with the Doobie Brothers. What's your relationship between the 0:00:51.600 --> 0:00:52.520 two acts. 0:00:52.280 --> 0:00:57.200 Now Little Fat I'm the leader of the band. We've 0:00:57.240 --> 0:01:00.600 got a couple of new members, scotch Are, Tonny Leoni 0:01:00.800 --> 0:01:07.560 on drums and guitars. Tony plays drums also sings, which 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:12.520 I didn't realize he did. We have Fred Tackett, Kenny Grandy, 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:16.520 Sam Clayton from the original band Fred, although came in 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:19.600 a little later. But we've known I've known friend since 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:24.480 nineteen sixty nine. So that relationship is that it's family, 0:01:25.400 --> 0:01:30.119 the Doobie Brothers. I started work on their second album 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:34.480 and began that process with them. I played on a 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:38.120 lot of their stuff, including when Mike McDonald joined the 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:41.600 group and he had two songs what a Fool Believes, 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:46.840 and minute by minute I said, you play play those songs. 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:49.800 I'll play some high strings or whatever. But I'm not 0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:54.200 Tommy Johnson and Patrick probably since seventy one seventy two, 0:01:54.680 --> 0:01:57.280 I think, so we all go back a long way. 0:01:57.320 --> 0:02:00.480 I spent up until a year and a half half ago. 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:03.680 I was touring with the DeBie Brothers for two years 0:02:04.200 --> 0:02:08.959 excuse me, seven years, and then Michael joined and we 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:11.959 were all out one big, happy family. And I still 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:14.240 stay in touch with the guys. So it's I have 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:15.280 two sets of family. 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:18.760 I guess, well, I guess the question would be, would 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:21.120 you ever go on the road with the Doobie Brothers 0:02:21.160 --> 0:02:23.240 again or is that in your past? 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:29.359 I'd go out with them again if the inclination hit 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:32.160 and all systems will go, and it was something I 0:02:32.160 --> 0:02:35.560 could do to help and vice versa. Yeah, I got 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:39.240 to keep a Leisa fair attitude towards that. That's that thing, 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:42.080 Bob with whom ever I'm working with. To be honest, 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:48.240 it's I don't try and cut people off, but you know, uh, 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:51.800 there's only so many hours in the day too. Just 0:02:51.880 --> 0:02:55.160 wait out like like you do. I'm sure. Yeah. 0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:58.600 Well, it's it appears from the outside that you decided 0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:01.760 because the Doobies are still on tour, that you decided 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:04.920 to leave that to get back with Little Feet. Would 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:06.280 that be an accurate description? 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:11.120 An absolute accurate description. And the reason I did it 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:14.560 was Little Feet came upon some pretty good management in 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:20.280 a form of Bob excuse me, Ken Levitan and Vector 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:24.000 out of Nashville. In fact, when I when I spoke 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:26.400 to the duties, they said, well, when we heard you 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:29.280 went to Vector Management, we kind of figured your time 0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:32.320 with us would be limited. So I said, well, you 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:34.560 guys figured it out before I did. But yeah, you're right. 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:42.119 So how'd you end up with Ken? Oh? I got 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:47.040 a call from a person that said, if you're making 0:03:47.040 --> 0:03:49.760 a switch, because I told him what we were, you 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:54.160 might want to check these guys out. So that morphing 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:57.240 into the Vector's system. And with Ken Levittan, who's a 0:03:57.280 --> 0:04:00.000 great guy. I know kid for a number of years 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:04.600 because of Emmy Lou Harris and other people, but I 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:08.840 thought they took about two weeks or work to decide 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:11.320 whether they would handle a Little Feet, And I said 0:04:11.800 --> 0:04:15.760 the entire time, I said, look, don't worry about it. 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:19.320 If I want to, you have no obligation to us. 0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:21.240 So if you're going to work with us, let's make 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:23.920 sure that you feel comfortable with it. We would love 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:25.960 to have it happen, but I'm a realist at the 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:28.280 end of the day, So let's let's see where this 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:32.320 flows with with how you're dividing to make this choice. 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:36.240 All I can tell you is that I feel with 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:41.960 with doing an interview with with you, for example. That's 0:04:43.360 --> 0:04:49.839 part of Levitan and Vector and the visibility we have 0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:52.800 these days is why you and I are having a conversation. 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:57.200 I don't discount Little Feet in my career with Little 0:04:57.200 --> 0:05:00.480 Feet or what we represent the musical world out there. 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:04.359 But you need people to help in this business, and 0:05:04.400 --> 0:05:07.680 these guys have done nothing but great things for us. 0:05:08.880 --> 0:05:11.240 Well, since you've been in the game for a long time, 0:05:11.839 --> 0:05:13.440 what have you learned about management? 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:18.839 Well, I actually managed a Little Feet myself with Paul Breyer. 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:25.680 It's a thankless job. First and foremost you get blamed 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:28.120 for things that maybe you shouldn't be blamed for. You 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:31.680 get credit for things that maybe you did some minimal 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:37.800 research into and it paid off. But I do know 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:42.839 that that management with the right people can open doors 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:47.920 that are normally closed. It's about perception at the end 0:05:47.960 --> 0:05:51.680 of the day. It's also about who you have speaking 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:59.000 on your behalf. It's about connections. Unlike music, which is 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:02.960 I think about Igor Stravinsky earlier today, you know, with 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:06.760 AI and all the the stuff that's going on there 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:10.680 with regard to writing letters, to composing songs on up 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:14.080 and down. I told this frind of mind, I said, look, 0:06:14.120 --> 0:06:17.200 you know we're not going to stop AI. But you 0:06:17.240 --> 0:06:20.240 know you're also not going to stop musicians and composers 0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:26.320 and creative people. They don't compose and write and are 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:31.680 creative because they want to. They actually have to. That's 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:36.800 the way Stravinsky put it. He whatever is in your 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:40.559 head and it needs to come out, that's what you're doing. 0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:46.400 And I feel that. Look, I've seventy four years old, 0:06:46.440 --> 0:06:47.839 so I mean, I hope I can do this for 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:50.920 a while longer. Knock on what's so far, so good? 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:56.560 But I don't pretend to know much about anything. About AI, 0:06:56.600 --> 0:06:59.360 but I know a lot about human beings, and those 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:03.400 that are creative are going to create, not because the 0:07:03.480 --> 0:07:08.400 body is there necessarily or that the path to scoring 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:11.160 the next Brad Pitt movies there. They're going to do 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:13.160 it because they have the ability to and it needs 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:14.040 to come out. 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:21.240 Okay, So how much runway is there for Little Feet? 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:24.720 Little Feet had Lowell George, and then Lowell George unfortunately 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:29.720 passed away. You continued under vary incarnations. As you said, 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:32.280 you're seventy four, but you do have hope to do 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:34.960 this for a while. You're hooked up with Ken and Vector. 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:39.160 What's the dream at this point in time. 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:46.960 I'd like to get some new songs recorded as a 0:07:46.960 --> 0:07:49.440 part of the dream. I've written twenty songs with Robert Hunter, 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:52.360 of which four have been recorded by the Little Feet, 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:56.120 which leaves sixteen that haven't, and not all sixteen of 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:59.200 them are should be recorded with Little Feet, by the way, 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:03.720 eight or nine songs with Paul maul Dune, who's a poser, 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:10.600 prize winning poet, poet and teaches it back East. Let's 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:16.520 see whatever the big university is in New Jersey. At 0:08:16.520 --> 0:08:20.480 any rate, the dream for me is nothing substantial along 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:23.280 the lines of of getting out in front of people 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:29.320 and taking vows. It's it's having the ability to create music. 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:34.120 New Old continued the conversation of playing with people that 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:38.800 are extraordinary musicians little feet, Bob has always had the attitude. 0:08:39.080 --> 0:08:43.080 Let's say that John Coltrane and his band had I 0:08:43.080 --> 0:08:50.160 assume that it's more of a jazz uh thought process 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:56.079 than rock and roll. It it figures more on on 0:08:56.320 --> 0:09:04.160 musicianship than than uh was you know, the visual. I 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:08.199 think the music actually is more important to us. And 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:11.840 I'm not knocking. I'm not knocking rock and roll. I 0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:16.880 love rock and roll. Uh, but I I uh, I 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:18.520 think they get out and play the type of music 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:22.400 that Little Feet plays. A song that Don was at 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:27.360 one point and he had he had, uh they were 0:09:27.360 --> 0:09:30.840 playing with this uh one of the theaters down New Orleans. 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:36.959 I think, uh, Stanford Theater. I can't, I can't think 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:40.040 of the theater. But he said they were doing Waiting 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:42.280 for Columbus. And he said, and it was. And I 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:46.280 said harder than you thought. He said, yeah. I said, 0:09:46.360 --> 0:09:47.960 we didn't do it to trip you up. It was 0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:50.920 just that it was the type of music that we 0:09:50.960 --> 0:09:57.359 would write, would be inclusive of hopefully for our standpoint 0:09:57.400 --> 0:10:03.840 of good songs, the great resitionship as well, and twisted 0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:07.520 turns within the arrangements, not unlike what the Grateful Dad 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:12.320 or took another group to Steely dand for example, those 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:16.360 are tough arrangements to learn. So it's not like Oh Atlanta, 0:10:16.480 --> 0:10:19.400 which which I wrote, Lolah. I said, you can't write 0:10:19.400 --> 0:10:22.080 a here record. I go, can can't? Can't? You know? 0:10:22.120 --> 0:10:25.360 We're back and forth on that. As my idea of 0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:27.440 a hair record was having a chorus come up at 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:29.480 you know, a minute in twenty four seconds, I guess. 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:33.160 So it was not a hare record, but it's been 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:36.360 something that people really like and and still respond to, 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:40.480 and it's it fits in the age group. Another song 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:44.920 like Voices on the Wind. Our engineer and producer co 0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:47.880 producer with me, George Messenberg, once said, what does that 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:52.760 song mean? I said, well, in a feisty mood, I said, 0:10:53.040 --> 0:10:56.400 I don't know that it matters what it means. I 0:10:56.440 --> 0:10:59.720 want people to read into it. The Laker organization read 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:04.280 it with caream up Jewel Dabbar went into retirement and 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:08.160 he said it is his theme song. So that was 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:12.080 kind of proof of the pudding there playing in little feats, 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:15.040 like playing in ten different bands. You'd have to be 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:18.640 in ten different bands to do the breath of material 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:21.680 that we write and conceive and and push through, and 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:23.080 it's not always easy to do that. 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:27.280 By the way, let's bought a couple of interesting things. 0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:30.679 Let's stop for a second on Robert Hunter. How did 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:33.360 you meet Robert Hunter? How do you end up writing 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:35.400 with him? And what was the process? 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:43.600 Like? I met Robert Hunter through Cameron Sears. Cameron was 0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:49.800 was co managing with John Cher from New York and 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:54.280 we were coming up to another record and Cameron said, 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:59.240 would you like to write with with with Bob? So 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:01.200 I said, you know, let's let's see what happened. So 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:06.280 Hunter sent me some lyrics and that took us a 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:09.120 second or two first, because I thought, oh, let me 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:13.280 talk to him. He doesn't want to talk, okay, cool, 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:16.319 Well if he doesn't want to talk, then what what 0:12:16.640 --> 0:12:21.640 the hell are we doing? So Bob circumvented everything and 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:24.640 just sent me some lyrics and I wrote to them. 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:27.079 I sent him back and goes, this sounds great, and 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:30.840 we just kept going and then about i'd say five 0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:33.920 or six songs into it, I'll get to the process 0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:36.079 in a second. But about five or six songs into it, 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:41.320 he says, why don't you send me the music first 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:44.520 and then I'll write lyrics to that. I go, okay. 0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:48.360 So we did a bunch like that. The point was, 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:53.280 we never met, we never spoke on the phone, we 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:56.160 didn't do zoom meetings, we didn't do anything. We just 0:12:56.640 --> 0:12:59.880 we just you would send me music and I would 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:04.120 right to it. I mean, he sent me lyrics, excuse me, 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:08.080 and I set melody and chords and whatnot to it, 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:10.400 or we do it the other way around. And we 0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:14.920 did twenty songs like that, probably over about i'd say 0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:19.040 two hundred plus emails. So I said, at what point, 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:20.920 I go, Bob, I'm sure you're a very nice man, 0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:24.880 but this is kind of like a Guatemala and Internet 0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:29.520 bride feeling to it. But we never met. We were 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:31.280 going to get together for a picnic up in his 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:36.240 place in northern California, and he fell ill, so we 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:40.160 canceled that. And I think he also thought, we're maybe 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:42.320 such good progress the way we're doing it, why don't 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:44.960 we just leave it the way it is rather than 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:47.000 not the way he would write with other people where 0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:50.440 he'd actually get together with him. And I live in Montana, 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:52.439 by the way, so I'm sort of in a remote area. 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:57.080 Okay, So let's just assume he sent you the lyrics. 0:13:57.440 --> 0:13:59.559 What is your process in terms of coming up with 0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:00.000 the music? 0:14:01.800 --> 0:14:04.960 I would do what I'm recording on now our conversation 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:09.800 is a zoom recorder. The Tom Guarnsey, who's another friend 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:12.400 of mine that we write music together. He gave it 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:14.400 to me. He says, why don't you use this to 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:18.160 write music? And I said, oh, okay, that way what 0:14:18.240 --> 0:14:20.240 I could be doing is sitting there playing Mary had 0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:24.320 a little lamb, let's say. And then five minutes later 0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:28.480 ago what was I playing? Was I going down? Or 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:30.200 was I got dada? And then that was going to 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:33.080 take me off and do another direction. The zoom recorder 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:39.760 was my lifelong, my lifeline to the path I was 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:44.840 going to take to write these songs. It made it 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:47.880 a lot easier. When I'm out of that twenty songs. 0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:51.040 One song, he says, you know, I don't like it. 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:54.080 Just sounds I hate to use the word, but sounds pedestrian. 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:59.120 What you wrote, I said, Okay, I was trying to 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:02.480 take it to an Irish Pub. I'll get back to 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:05.560 you two days. Two days later I sent it to him. 0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:09.400 He goes, oh my god, what what is this? 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:09.920 This is? 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:13.680 This is great? Uh. I emailed it back. I said, 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:16.720 I took it out of Ireland and I took it 0:15:16.760 --> 0:15:19.720 down to South America and I said, and he says, 0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:21.760 you know what I like about you. You don't let 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:24.560 anything stand in the way of of anything. You just 0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:27.200 do what the hell you want. I said, well, what 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:29.960 else do we have, man? I mean, I think the 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:33.480 lyrics are superb. It was about a dragon, and I 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:36.760 just opened it up to more changes, more of a 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:42.520 h I say, magic realism within the lyrics that I 0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:45.840 want to to apply rather than to put the pendles 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:49.400 at the uh uh the Irish pub on top of it. 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:54.080 So it was it was the freedom we gave each 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:56.720 other was, look, I won't mess with your lyrics. I 0:15:56.720 --> 0:15:59.920 will tell you, Bob, if there's something that I I 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:04.160 wouldn't have said, or have a tough time singing. And 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:06.960 every time I made those suggestions, He's like, try this, 0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:10.160 and we were right in there. So it was a 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:13.120 fascinating way too. It taught me how to write music, 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:15.680 even though I'd been writing songs for many, many years, 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:19.000 but it opened me up. When I was writing with 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:25.040 Paul Muldoon with other people, I had something where I 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:26.360 had confidence that I could do it. 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:30.760 Okay, but you're also a lyricist. So when you're working 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:33.640 with Hunter, did you ever feel like, hey, I want 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:35.840 to put in some words here, I want to change something. 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:38.960 I might have tried it once and I got shut 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:42.160 down pretty quickly, so I said, Okay, I understand the rules, 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:44.560 let's do let's do it that way. I mean, it's 0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:46.480 a much better lyricist than I am, but I'm not 0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:49.440 a bad I'm not bad at it either, but I'm 0:16:49.480 --> 0:16:53.840 not Robert Hunter. So but he's not me. Uh. I 0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:57.120 think the biggest compliment we gave each other was was 0:16:57.240 --> 0:17:01.840 just I said something like, you know what I write 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:04.920 and compose what I'm doing to your lyrics. The music 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:08.200 is already there, and he says, yeah, but it takes 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:11.200 a composer to draw it out. And we kind of 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:11.840 left it at that. 0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:16.320 Now you mentioned th Atlanta. You were saying, well, it 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:18.400 wasn't a hit. Well, in reality, it was. I mean, 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:21.919 in nineteen seventy four it was all about FM and 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:25.760 that was the first time that Little Feet got any 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:31.600 significant rock radio airplay, and it was funny because it 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:34.080 was seen as more of Lowell's being. But you're the 0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:37.640 one who had the successful track. So what was going 0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:38.680 on on the inside. 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:44.640 Well, the inside is like a lot of bads. You'll 0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:49.679 usually have two maybe three people that are vine for 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:54.920 the the cotton candy or whatever it is you're going after, 0:17:55.560 --> 0:18:02.639 and loll As in the beginning was my mentor. Essentially, 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:07.240 I'm writing a memoir called Carnival Ghosts. I've taken an 0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:10.840 inordinarily long time to get to meeting law, probably thirty 0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:15.520 thirty five thousand words to describe what it is like 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:20.520 to come out of a solitary sitting at the piano playing, 0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:24.240 you know, six years later after starting at age five, 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:28.800 maybe playing a little bit of Mozart, certainly eight years 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:32.399 later playing some rock mononoff et cetera, and all the 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:35.760 while being encouraged by a teacher that allowed me to improvise. 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:39.440 So when you get into a band, you come from 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:45.760 that solitary existence to now there's a platter on the 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:48.920 table full of food and you got anywhere from five 0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:51.840 to six guys that want It's like a boarding house 0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:57.160 reach kind of thing. How do you maneuver within that category, 0:18:57.160 --> 0:19:01.879 which is really what you're asking. It's it can be 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:06.080 a fight and often turns into a fight. George Harrison 0:19:06.119 --> 0:19:09.480 certainly knew about that fight, so did Brian Jones. With 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:13.480 Keith and Mick, uh, you know, this strong prevail is 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:18.000 what happens, and so you have to really have a 0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:20.800 commitment to what you're asking. The first time I played 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:24.040 Atlanta for the band, which is when we were doing 0:19:24.280 --> 0:19:27.800 a session for Little Feet where we were doing rock 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:30.639 and roll Doctor and Alan Jusaint and was putting horns 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:34.240 to it. The band looked like looked at me like yes, 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:37.800 so what? I went, h you know what, we're playing 0:19:37.800 --> 0:19:40.600 a song, where do you like it or not? I 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:43.240 kind of pushed it through And it's not the only 0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:45.520 song that that happened that way. And I'm sure Lowell 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:48.960 came into us with a few things. We go, eh, yeah, cool, 0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:52.520 what do you want to do? And would people listen 0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:55.920 to the record? Hoy HOI? For example, it starts off 0:19:56.000 --> 0:20:00.440 with rocket in my pocket. It's it's with low playing 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:03.960 acoustic guitar. I want the purity of Lowell's voice, his 0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:07.960 guitar playing acoustic guitar to ring through, and then I 0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:11.520 followed it up with the band to show what happens 0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:14.679 when the band gets ahold of it. It turns into 0:20:15.320 --> 0:20:21.360 not necessarily something different, but it can oftentimes be vastly 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:25.479 different because of the rhythm, because of certain chre changes, 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:30.160 maybe dropped or included, Uh, fat man in the bathtub, dude, 0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:36.359 bump bump, that's just an arrangemental thing, as is about it. 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:39.880 And Dixie Chicken from the piano in both cases, or 0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:43.879 keyboards in both cases. But they add to what the 0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:46.880 song is and how it registers in your mind when 0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:49.639 you hear it. It's not it doesn't make me a 0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:54.840 writer on the song, but it adds life and provides 0:20:54.920 --> 0:20:59.800 a background to hear the song. So Lowell George was 0:20:59.840 --> 0:21:05.560 all so one of the very first to include band 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:10.159 members that didn't write, like Richie Hayward, Sam Clayton, you know, 0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:17.240 Uh Kindergarten, Ny. We split the publishing. We did split writers, 0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:20.800 but we split the publishing just for that type of thing. 0:21:20.880 --> 0:21:22.879 So if somebody came in and threw in some LECs 0:21:23.000 --> 0:21:28.080 or or whatnot, they would be covered. I mean, trying 0:21:28.200 --> 0:21:31.560 to sustain a band is a very difficult thing because 0:21:31.560 --> 0:21:36.480 of egos, and you know, we did our best to 0:21:36.640 --> 0:21:39.840 try and circumvent that. But human beings or such as 0:21:39.880 --> 0:21:42.680 they are, it's a it's a delicate process. 0:21:43.760 --> 0:21:46.000 So it was Lowell jealous that you had the hit. 0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:54.520 I don't think so. I uh, I think what Lowell 0:21:54.560 --> 0:22:01.040 wanted and any proved at least initially with Warner Brothers 0:22:01.520 --> 0:22:04.840 on Sale and Shoes, which is our second album, that 0:22:05.000 --> 0:22:07.840 was his territory. He was carving out his own wrote 0:22:08.520 --> 0:22:11.280 the first album had songs that we co wrote, etc. 0:22:12.160 --> 0:22:14.720 I don't know if we wrote anything on the second album. 0:22:14.920 --> 0:22:18.960 We might have co written one or two songs. But 0:22:18.960 --> 0:22:21.200 but he decided to draw a line to say here's 0:22:21.240 --> 0:22:23.520 who I am. And I think he did in a 0:22:23.600 --> 0:22:26.440 very brilliant fashion, and that he he had a song 0:22:26.520 --> 0:22:30.359 like easy to Slip, Let's say and uh that was 0:22:30.440 --> 0:22:34.480 quitetessential lows It was great lyrics, great melody of the 0:22:34.480 --> 0:22:39.640 phrasing was impeccable. And I was still kind of sitting 0:22:39.640 --> 0:22:42.320 on the sidelines of plotting the guy and then but 0:22:42.400 --> 0:22:45.199 thinking maybe as we grew as a group that we 0:22:45.200 --> 0:22:50.520 would we would write more. That a group is not 0:22:50.760 --> 0:22:53.960 like backing up James Taylor or Bob Seeger or Jackson Brown. 0:22:54.040 --> 0:22:57.600 You you walk in there with a eyed eye, not 0:22:57.800 --> 0:23:02.000 like hey can I may I. It's eyed I. And 0:23:02.040 --> 0:23:05.439 that's what the advantage of being at a band is. 0:23:05.480 --> 0:23:08.720 It's also an extreme disadvantage if you don't agree with 0:23:08.760 --> 0:23:09.120 each other. 0:23:16.359 --> 0:23:18.520 Let's go back to the beginning. So you said you 0:23:18.560 --> 0:23:21.119 were taking piano lessons since age five. What was the 0:23:21.160 --> 0:23:22.000 incentive for that. 0:23:23.560 --> 0:23:27.480 A little girl across the street was playing piano and 0:23:27.560 --> 0:23:30.240 I thought if she could do it, I should do it. 0:23:30.720 --> 0:23:34.520 Her name was Marilyn Newell. It was a venture California, 0:23:35.600 --> 0:23:38.280 and I lived up on a hill with a gorgeous view. 0:23:38.520 --> 0:23:41.880 I'm sitting here in Montana with a gorgeous view. And 0:23:44.119 --> 0:23:49.840 when I finally found the right teacher, I marched into 0:23:49.920 --> 0:23:53.720 her piano room where I was gonna take the lessons. 0:23:54.480 --> 0:23:56.800 Her living room, I guess, and it was the theme 0:23:56.840 --> 0:24:00.840 of Davy Crockett and I I played it for it. 0:24:01.040 --> 0:24:03.399 She said, when you come back for your lesson next week, 0:24:03.840 --> 0:24:06.440 all write down what you played for me, so you 0:24:06.600 --> 0:24:08.000 see what it is, and we're going to start your 0:24:08.040 --> 0:24:11.200 first lesson. Well she did, and I still have it, 0:24:12.280 --> 0:24:15.840 and there's a multitude of notes. But my first lesson 0:24:15.920 --> 0:24:21.359 was C D followed throw thereafter by C B A 0:24:21.800 --> 0:24:24.840 with my left hand, and I got to say Bobby 0:24:24.880 --> 0:24:29.479 when I hit the left hand. You liked the miner 0:24:29.480 --> 0:24:35.600 as opposed to major tonality was like entering into exotic, 0:24:36.040 --> 0:24:42.879 an exotic world for a five year old. It it 0:24:42.960 --> 0:24:48.280 connoteded different images to me than or of a major 0:24:48.400 --> 0:24:54.960 field or as a major. Oh, the miner was or 0:24:55.040 --> 0:24:58.119 as I said, more exotic. It was it opened up 0:24:58.119 --> 0:25:03.320 a world that I wasn't really familiar with, but I 0:25:03.400 --> 0:25:06.119 want to know a lot better. And so that was 0:25:07.600 --> 0:25:09.520 what music does, at least it does for me and 0:25:09.600 --> 0:25:12.560 probably for a lot of people, especially musicians, but not always. 0:25:14.359 --> 0:25:18.960 It opens up those avenues that you had that connect 0:25:18.960 --> 0:25:24.840 the dots between things, between other art, between food, but 0:25:24.920 --> 0:25:30.840 between everything. It's a circuitry that's plugged into to who 0:25:30.880 --> 0:25:32.600 you are as a human being and what you want 0:25:32.600 --> 0:25:36.240 to say ultimately. And the trick as you're growing through 0:25:36.320 --> 0:25:40.400