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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is keyboardist extraordinaire.

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Speaker 2: Bill Payn Bill, good to have you on the podcast. Oh,

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Speaker 2: it's a pleasure to be here. Thanks so much for

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Speaker 2: having me.

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Speaker 1: Okay. Sometimes you're referred to his Bill. Sometimes you're referred

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Speaker 1: to his Billy. Do you care what's going on there?

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Speaker 2: Not often? I mean my mother finally called me Billy

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Speaker 2: for a while when that was the rage. I normally

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Speaker 2: would people ask I say it's Bill. But if they

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Speaker 2: want to say Billy, just don't call me late for dinner.

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Speaker 1: Okay. So you're out with Little Feet now, you were

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Speaker 1: out with the Doobie Brothers. What's your relationship between the

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Speaker 1: two acts.

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Speaker 2: Now Little Fat I'm the leader of the band. We've

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Speaker 2: got a couple of new members, scotch Are, Tonny Leoni

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Speaker 2: on drums and guitars. Tony plays drums also sings, which

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Speaker 2: I didn't realize he did. We have Fred Tackett, Kenny Grandy,

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Speaker 2: Sam Clayton from the original band Fred, although came in

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Speaker 2: a little later. But we've known I've known friend since

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Speaker 2: nineteen sixty nine. So that relationship is that it's family,

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Speaker 2: the Doobie Brothers. I started work on their second album

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Speaker 2: and began that process with them. I played on a

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Speaker 2: lot of their stuff, including when Mike McDonald joined the

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Speaker 2: group and he had two songs what a Fool Believes,

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Speaker 2: and minute by minute I said, you play play those songs.

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Speaker 2: I'll play some high strings or whatever. But I'm not

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Speaker 2: Tommy Johnson and Patrick probably since seventy one seventy two,

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Speaker 2: I think, so we all go back a long way.

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Speaker 2: I spent up until a year and a half half ago.

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Speaker 2: I was touring with the DeBie Brothers for two years

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Speaker 2: excuse me, seven years, and then Michael joined and we

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Speaker 2: were all out one big, happy family. And I still

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Speaker 2: stay in touch with the guys. So it's I have

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Speaker 2: two sets of family.

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Speaker 1: I guess, well, I guess the question would be, would

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Speaker 1: you ever go on the road with the Doobie Brothers

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Speaker 1: again or is that in your past?

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Speaker 2: I'd go out with them again if the inclination hit

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Speaker 2: and all systems will go, and it was something I

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Speaker 2: could do to help and vice versa. Yeah, I got

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Speaker 2: to keep a Leisa fair attitude towards that. That's that thing,

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Speaker 2: Bob with whom ever I'm working with. To be honest,

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Speaker 2: it's I don't try and cut people off, but you know, uh,

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Speaker 2: there's only so many hours in the day too. Just

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Speaker 2: wait out like like you do. I'm sure. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's it appears from the outside that you decided

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Speaker 1: because the Doobies are still on tour, that you decided

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Speaker 1: to leave that to get back with Little Feet. Would

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Speaker 1: that be an accurate description?

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Speaker 2: An absolute accurate description. And the reason I did it

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Speaker 2: was Little Feet came upon some pretty good management in

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Speaker 2: a form of Bob excuse me, Ken Levitan and Vector

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Speaker 2: out of Nashville. In fact, when I when I spoke

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Speaker 2: to the duties, they said, well, when we heard you

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Speaker 2: went to Vector Management, we kind of figured your time

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Speaker 2: with us would be limited. So I said, well, you

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Speaker 2: guys figured it out before I did. But yeah, you're right.

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Speaker 2: So how'd you end up with Ken? Oh? I got

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Speaker 2: a call from a person that said, if you're making

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Speaker 2: a switch, because I told him what we were, you

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Speaker 2: might want to check these guys out. So that morphing

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Speaker 2: into the Vector's system. And with Ken Levittan, who's a

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Speaker 2: great guy. I know kid for a number of years

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Speaker 2: because of Emmy Lou Harris and other people, but I

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Speaker 2: thought they took about two weeks or work to decide

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Speaker 2: whether they would handle a Little Feet, And I said

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Speaker 2: the entire time, I said, look, don't worry about it.

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Speaker 2: If I want to, you have no obligation to us.

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Speaker 2: So if you're going to work with us, let's make

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Speaker 2: sure that you feel comfortable with it. We would love

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Speaker 2: to have it happen, but I'm a realist at the

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Speaker 2: end of the day, So let's let's see where this

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Speaker 2: flows with with how you're dividing to make this choice.

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Speaker 2: All I can tell you is that I feel with

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Speaker 2: with doing an interview with with you, for example. That's

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Speaker 2: part of Levitan and Vector and the visibility we have

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Speaker 2: these days is why you and I are having a conversation.

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Speaker 2: I don't discount Little Feet in my career with Little

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Speaker 2: Feet or what we represent the musical world out there.

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Speaker 2: But you need people to help in this business, and

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Speaker 2: these guys have done nothing but great things for us.

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Speaker 1: Well, since you've been in the game for a long time,

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Speaker 1: what have you learned about management?

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Speaker 2: Well, I actually managed a Little Feet myself with Paul Breyer.

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Speaker 2: It's a thankless job. First and foremost you get blamed

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Speaker 2: for things that maybe you shouldn't be blamed for. You

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Speaker 2: get credit for things that maybe you did some minimal

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Speaker 2: research into and it paid off. But I do know

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Speaker 2: that that management with the right people can open doors

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Speaker 2: that are normally closed. It's about perception at the end

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Speaker 2: of the day. It's also about who you have speaking

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Speaker 2: on your behalf. It's about connections. Unlike music, which is

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Speaker 2: I think about Igor Stravinsky earlier today, you know, with

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Speaker 2: AI and all the the stuff that's going on there

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Speaker 2: with regard to writing letters, to composing songs on up

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Speaker 2: and down. I told this frind of mind, I said, look,

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Speaker 2: you know we're not going to stop AI. But you

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Speaker 2: know you're also not going to stop musicians and composers

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Speaker 2: and creative people. They don't compose and write and are

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Speaker 2: creative because they want to. They actually have to. That's

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Speaker 2: the way Stravinsky put it. He whatever is in your

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Speaker 2: head and it needs to come out, that's what you're doing.

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Speaker 2: And I feel that. Look, I've seventy four years old,

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Speaker 2: so I mean, I hope I can do this for

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Speaker 2: a while longer. Knock on what's so far, so good?

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Speaker 2: But I don't pretend to know much about anything. About AI,

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Speaker 2: but I know a lot about human beings, and those

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Speaker 2: that are creative are going to create, not because the

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Speaker 2: body is there necessarily or that the path to scoring

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Speaker 2: the next Brad Pitt movies there. They're going to do

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Speaker 2: it because they have the ability to and it needs

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Speaker 2: to come out.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So how much runway is there for Little Feet?

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Speaker 1: Little Feet had Lowell George, and then Lowell George unfortunately

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Speaker 1: passed away. You continued under vary incarnations. As you said,

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Speaker 1: you're seventy four, but you do have hope to do

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Speaker 1: this for a while. You're hooked up with Ken and Vector.

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Speaker 1: What's the dream at this point in time.

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Speaker 2: I'd like to get some new songs recorded as a

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Speaker 2: part of the dream. I've written twenty songs with Robert Hunter,

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Speaker 2: of which four have been recorded by the Little Feet,

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Speaker 2: which leaves sixteen that haven't, and not all sixteen of

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Speaker 2: them are should be recorded with Little Feet, by the way,

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Speaker 2: eight or nine songs with Paul maul Dune, who's a poser,

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Speaker 2: prize winning poet, poet and teaches it back East. Let's

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Speaker 2: see whatever the big university is in New Jersey. At

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Speaker 2: any rate, the dream for me is nothing substantial along

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Speaker 2: the lines of of getting out in front of people

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Speaker 2: and taking vows. It's it's having the ability to create music.

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Speaker 2: New Old continued the conversation of playing with people that

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Speaker 2: are extraordinary musicians little feet, Bob has always had the attitude.

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Speaker 2: Let's say that John Coltrane and his band had I

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Speaker 2: assume that it's more of a jazz uh thought process

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Speaker 2: than rock and roll. It it figures more on on

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Speaker 2: musicianship than than uh was you know, the visual. I

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Speaker 2: think the music actually is more important to us. And

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Speaker 2: I'm not knocking. I'm not knocking rock and roll. I

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Speaker 2: love rock and roll. Uh, but I I uh, I

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Speaker 2: think they get out and play the type of music

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Speaker 2: that Little Feet plays. A song that Don was at

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Speaker 2: one point and he had he had, uh they were

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Speaker 2: playing with this uh one of the theaters down New Orleans.

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Speaker 2: I think, uh, Stanford Theater. I can't, I can't think

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Speaker 2: of the theater. But he said they were doing Waiting

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Speaker 2: for Columbus. And he said, and it was. And I

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Speaker 2: said harder than you thought. He said, yeah. I said,

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Speaker 2: we didn't do it to trip you up. It was

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Speaker 2: just that it was the type of music that we

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Speaker 2: would write, would be inclusive of hopefully for our standpoint

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Speaker 2: of good songs, the great resitionship as well, and twisted

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Speaker 2: turns within the arrangements, not unlike what the Grateful Dad

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Speaker 2: or took another group to Steely dand for example, those

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Speaker 2: are tough arrangements to learn. So it's not like Oh Atlanta,

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Speaker 2: which which I wrote, Lolah. I said, you can't write

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Speaker 2: a here record. I go, can can't? Can't? You know?

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Speaker 2: We're back and forth on that. As my idea of

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Speaker 2: a hair record was having a chorus come up at

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Speaker 2: you know, a minute in twenty four seconds, I guess.

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Speaker 2: So it was not a hare record, but it's been

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Speaker 2: something that people really like and and still respond to,

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Speaker 2: and it's it fits in the age group. Another song

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Speaker 2: like Voices on the Wind. Our engineer and producer co

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Speaker 2: producer with me, George Messenberg, once said, what does that

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Speaker 2: song mean? I said, well, in a feisty mood, I said,

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Speaker 2: I don't know that it matters what it means. I

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Speaker 2: want people to read into it. The Laker organization read

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Speaker 2: it with caream up Jewel Dabbar went into retirement and

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Speaker 2: he said it is his theme song. So that was

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Speaker 2: kind of proof of the pudding there playing in little feats,

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Speaker 2: like playing in ten different bands. You'd have to be

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Speaker 2: in ten different bands to do the breath of material

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Speaker 2: that we write and conceive and and push through, and

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Speaker 2: it's not always easy to do that.

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Speaker 1: By the way, let's bought a couple of interesting things.

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Speaker 1: Let's stop for a second on Robert Hunter. How did

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Speaker 1: you meet Robert Hunter? How do you end up writing

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Speaker 1: with him? And what was the process?

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Speaker 2: Like? I met Robert Hunter through Cameron Sears. Cameron was

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Speaker 2: was co managing with John Cher from New York and

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Speaker 2: we were coming up to another record and Cameron said,

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Speaker 2: would you like to write with with with Bob? So

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Speaker 2: I said, you know, let's let's see what happened. So

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Speaker 2: Hunter sent me some lyrics and that took us a

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Speaker 2: second or two first, because I thought, oh, let me

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Speaker 2: talk to him. He doesn't want to talk, okay, cool,

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Speaker 2: Well if he doesn't want to talk, then what what

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Speaker 2: the hell are we doing? So Bob circumvented everything and

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Speaker 2: just sent me some lyrics and I wrote to them.

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Speaker 2: I sent him back and goes, this sounds great, and

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Speaker 2: we just kept going and then about i'd say five

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Speaker 2: or six songs into it, I'll get to the process

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Speaker 2: in a second. But about five or six songs into it,

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Speaker 2: he says, why don't you send me the music first

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Speaker 2: and then I'll write lyrics to that. I go, okay.

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Speaker 2: So we did a bunch like that. The point was,

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Speaker 2: we never met, we never spoke on the phone, we

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Speaker 2: didn't do zoom meetings, we didn't do anything. We just

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Speaker 2: we just you would send me music and I would

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Speaker 2: right to it. I mean, he sent me lyrics, excuse me,

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Speaker 2: and I set melody and chords and whatnot to it,

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Speaker 2: or we do it the other way around. And we

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Speaker 2: did twenty songs like that, probably over about i'd say

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Speaker 2: two hundred plus emails. So I said, at what point,

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Speaker 2: I go, Bob, I'm sure you're a very nice man,

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Speaker 2: but this is kind of like a Guatemala and Internet

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Speaker 2: bride feeling to it. But we never met. We were

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Speaker 2: going to get together for a picnic up in his

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Speaker 2: place in northern California, and he fell ill, so we

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Speaker 2: canceled that. And I think he also thought, we're maybe

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Speaker 2: such good progress the way we're doing it, why don't

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Speaker 2: we just leave it the way it is rather than

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Speaker 2: not the way he would write with other people where

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Speaker 2: he'd actually get together with him. And I live in Montana,

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Speaker 2: by the way, so I'm sort of in a remote area.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So let's just assume he sent you the lyrics.

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Speaker 1: What is your process in terms of coming up with

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Speaker 1: the music?

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Speaker 2: I would do what I'm recording on now our conversation

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Speaker 2: is a zoom recorder. The Tom Guarnsey, who's another friend

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Speaker 2: of mine that we write music together. He gave it

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Speaker 2: to me. He says, why don't you use this to

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Speaker 2: write music? And I said, oh, okay, that way what

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Speaker 2: I could be doing is sitting there playing Mary had

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Speaker 2: a little lamb, let's say. And then five minutes later

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Speaker 2: ago what was I playing? Was I going down? Or

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Speaker 2: was I got dada? And then that was going to

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Speaker 2: take me off and do another direction. The zoom recorder

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Speaker 2: was my lifelong, my lifeline to the path I was

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Speaker 2: going to take to write these songs. It made it

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Speaker 2: a lot easier. When I'm out of that twenty songs.

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Speaker 2: One song, he says, you know, I don't like it.

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Speaker 2: Just sounds I hate to use the word, but sounds pedestrian.

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Speaker 2: What you wrote, I said, Okay, I was trying to

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Speaker 2: take it to an Irish Pub. I'll get back to

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Speaker 2: you two days. Two days later I sent it to him.

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Speaker 2: He goes, oh my god, what what is this?

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Speaker 1: This is?

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Speaker 2: This is great? Uh. I emailed it back. I said,

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Speaker 2: I took it out of Ireland and I took it

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Speaker 2: down to South America and I said, and he says,

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Speaker 2: you know what I like about you. You don't let

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Speaker 2: anything stand in the way of of anything. You just

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Speaker 2: do what the hell you want. I said, well, what

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Speaker 2: else do we have, man? I mean, I think the

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Speaker 2: lyrics are superb. It was about a dragon, and I

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Speaker 2: just opened it up to more changes, more of a

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Speaker 2: h I say, magic realism within the lyrics that I

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Speaker 2: want to to apply rather than to put the pendles

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Speaker 2: at the uh uh the Irish pub on top of it.

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Speaker 2: So it was it was the freedom we gave each

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Speaker 2: other was, look, I won't mess with your lyrics. I

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Speaker 2: will tell you, Bob, if there's something that I I

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Speaker 2: wouldn't have said, or have a tough time singing. And

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Speaker 2: every time I made those suggestions, He's like, try this,

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Speaker 2: and we were right in there. So it was a

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Speaker 2: fascinating way too. It taught me how to write music,

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Speaker 2: even though I'd been writing songs for many, many years,

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Speaker 2: but it opened me up. When I was writing with

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Speaker 2: Paul Muldoon with other people, I had something where I

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Speaker 2: had confidence that I could do it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, but you're also a lyricist. So when you're working

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Speaker 1: with Hunter, did you ever feel like, hey, I want

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Speaker 1: to put in some words here, I want to change something.

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Speaker 2: I might have tried it once and I got shut

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Speaker 2: down pretty quickly, so I said, Okay, I understand the rules,

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Speaker 2: let's do let's do it that way. I mean, it's

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Speaker 2: a much better lyricist than I am, but I'm not

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Speaker 2: a bad I'm not bad at it either, but I'm

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Speaker 2: not Robert Hunter. So but he's not me. Uh. I

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Speaker 2: think the biggest compliment we gave each other was was

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Speaker 2: just I said something like, you know what I write

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Speaker 2: and compose what I'm doing to your lyrics. The music

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Speaker 2: is already there, and he says, yeah, but it takes

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Speaker 2: a composer to draw it out. And we kind of

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Speaker 2: left it at that.

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Speaker 1: Now you mentioned th Atlanta. You were saying, well, it

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Speaker 1: wasn't a hit. Well, in reality, it was. I mean,

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Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy four it was all about FM and

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Speaker 1: that was the first time that Little Feet got any

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Speaker 1: significant rock radio airplay, and it was funny because it

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Speaker 1: was seen as more of Lowell's being. But you're the

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Speaker 1: one who had the successful track. So what was going

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Speaker 1: on on the inside.

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Speaker 2: Well, the inside is like a lot of bads. You'll

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Speaker 2: usually have two maybe three people that are vine for

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Speaker 2: the the cotton candy or whatever it is you're going after,

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Speaker 2: and loll As in the beginning was my mentor. Essentially,

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Speaker 2: I'm writing a memoir called Carnival Ghosts. I've taken an

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Speaker 2: inordinarily long time to get to meeting law, probably thirty

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Speaker 2: thirty five thousand words to describe what it is like

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Speaker 2: to come out of a solitary sitting at the piano playing,

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Speaker 2: you know, six years later after starting at age five,

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Speaker 2: maybe playing a little bit of Mozart, certainly eight years

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Speaker 2: later playing some rock mononoff et cetera, and all the

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Speaker 2: while being encouraged by a teacher that allowed me to improvise.

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Speaker 2: So when you get into a band, you come from

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Speaker 2: that solitary existence to now there's a platter on the

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Speaker 2: table full of food and you got anywhere from five

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Speaker 2: to six guys that want It's like a boarding house

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Speaker 2: reach kind of thing. How do you maneuver within that category,

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Speaker 2: which is really what you're asking. It's it can be

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Speaker 2: a fight and often turns into a fight. George Harrison

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Speaker 2: certainly knew about that fight, so did Brian Jones. With

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Speaker 2: Keith and Mick, uh, you know, this strong prevail is

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Speaker 2: what happens, and so you have to really have a

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Speaker 2: commitment to what you're asking. The first time I played

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Speaker 2: Atlanta for the band, which is when we were doing

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Speaker 2: a session for Little Feet where we were doing rock

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Speaker 2: and roll Doctor and Alan Jusaint and was putting horns

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Speaker 2: to it. The band looked like looked at me like yes,

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Speaker 2: so what? I went, h you know what, we're playing

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Speaker 2: a song, where do you like it or not? I

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Speaker 2: kind of pushed it through And it's not the only

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Speaker 2: song that that happened that way. And I'm sure Lowell

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Speaker 2: came into us with a few things. We go, eh, yeah, cool,

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Speaker 2: what do you want to do? And would people listen

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Speaker 2: to the record? Hoy HOI? For example, it starts off

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Speaker 2: with rocket in my pocket. It's it's with low playing

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Speaker 2: acoustic guitar. I want the purity of Lowell's voice, his

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Speaker 2: guitar playing acoustic guitar to ring through, and then I

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Speaker 2: followed it up with the band to show what happens

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Speaker 2: when the band gets ahold of it. It turns into

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Speaker 2: not necessarily something different, but it can oftentimes be vastly

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Speaker 2: different because of the rhythm, because of certain chre changes,

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Speaker 2: maybe dropped or included, Uh, fat man in the bathtub, dude,

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Speaker 2: bump bump, that's just an arrangemental thing, as is about it.

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Speaker 2: And Dixie Chicken from the piano in both cases, or

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Speaker 2: keyboards in both cases. But they add to what the

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Speaker 2: song is and how it registers in your mind when

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Speaker 2: you hear it. It's not it doesn't make me a

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Speaker 2: writer on the song, but it adds life and provides

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Speaker 2: a background to hear the song. So Lowell George was

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Speaker 2: all so one of the very first to include band

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Speaker 2: members that didn't write, like Richie Hayward, Sam Clayton, you know,

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Speaker 2: Uh Kindergarten, Ny. We split the publishing. We did split writers,

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Speaker 2: but we split the publishing just for that type of thing.

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Speaker 2: So if somebody came in and threw in some LECs

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Speaker 2: or or whatnot, they would be covered. I mean, trying

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Speaker 2: to sustain a band is a very difficult thing because

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Speaker 2: of egos, and you know, we did our best to

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Speaker 2: try and circumvent that. But human beings or such as

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Speaker 2: they are, it's a it's a delicate process.

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Speaker 1: So it was Lowell jealous that you had the hit.

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Speaker 2: I don't think so. I uh, I think what Lowell

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Speaker 2: wanted and any proved at least initially with Warner Brothers

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Speaker 2: on Sale and Shoes, which is our second album, that

348
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Speaker 2: was his territory. He was carving out his own wrote

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Speaker 2: the first album had songs that we co wrote, etc.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if we wrote anything on the second album.

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Speaker 2: We might have co written one or two songs. But

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Speaker 2: but he decided to draw a line to say here's

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Speaker 2: who I am. And I think he did in a

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Speaker 2: very brilliant fashion, and that he he had a song

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Speaker 2: like easy to Slip, Let's say and uh that was

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Speaker 2: quitetessential lows It was great lyrics, great melody of the

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Speaker 2: phrasing was impeccable. And I was still kind of sitting

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Speaker 2: on the sidelines of plotting the guy and then but

359
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Speaker 2: thinking maybe as we grew as a group that we

360
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Speaker 2: would we would write more. That a group is not

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Speaker 2: like backing up James Taylor or Bob Seeger or Jackson Brown.

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Speaker 2: You you walk in there with a eyed eye, not

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Speaker 2: like hey can I may I. It's eyed I. And

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Speaker 2: that's what the advantage of being at a band is.

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Speaker 2: It's also an extreme disadvantage if you don't agree with

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Speaker 2: each other.

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Speaker 1: Let's go back to the beginning. So you said you

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Speaker 1: were taking piano lessons since age five. What was the

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Speaker 1: incentive for that.

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Speaker 2: A little girl across the street was playing piano and

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Speaker 2: I thought if she could do it, I should do it.

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Speaker 2: Her name was Marilyn Newell. It was a venture California,

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Speaker 2: and I lived up on a hill with a gorgeous view.

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Speaker 2: I'm sitting here in Montana with a gorgeous view. And

375
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Speaker 2: when I finally found the right teacher, I marched into

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Speaker 2: her piano room where I was gonna take the lessons.

377
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Speaker 2: Her living room, I guess, and it was the theme

378
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Speaker 2: of Davy Crockett and I I played it for it.

379
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Speaker 2: She said, when you come back for your lesson next week,

380
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Speaker 2: all write down what you played for me, so you

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Speaker 2: see what it is, and we're going to start your

382
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Speaker 2: first lesson. Well she did, and I still have it,

383
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Speaker 2: and there's a multitude of notes. But my first lesson

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Speaker 2: was C D followed throw thereafter by C B A

385
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Speaker 2: with my left hand, and I got to say Bobby

386
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Speaker 2: when I hit the left hand. You liked the miner

387
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Speaker 2: as opposed to major tonality was like entering into exotic,

388
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Speaker 2: an exotic world for a five year old. It it

389
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Speaker 2: connoteded different images to me than or of a major

390
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Speaker 2: field or as a major. Oh, the miner was or

391
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Speaker 2: as I said, more exotic. It was it opened up

392
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Speaker 2: a world that I wasn't really familiar with, but I

393
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,119
Speaker 2: want to know a lot better. And so that was

394
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Speaker 2: what music does, at least it does for me and

395
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Speaker 2: probably for a lot of people, especially musicians, but not always.

396
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Speaker 2: It opens up those avenues that you had that connect

397
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Speaker 2: the dots between things, between other art, between food, but

398
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Speaker 2: between everything. It's a circuitry that's plugged into to who

399
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Speaker 2: you are as a human being and what you want

400
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 2: to say ultimately. And the trick as you're growing through

401
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:40,400
Speaker 2: the process of learning music and applying it to who

402
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 2: and whom you are is how do you want to

403
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Speaker 2: represent it? And what you write be it lyrics, what

404
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 2: you compose is musical interluds within those lyrics or maybe

405
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,439
Speaker 2: just as instrumental music. How do you fit in with

406
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Speaker 2: James Taylor, Bob Seeger, Barbie Benton, Body Rate, whoever I'm

407
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 2: playing in the studio with. How do I take that

408
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 2: musical background that I have and apply it to two

409
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 2: different forms of music? And fortunately, because of my upbringing

410
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 2: of playing, let's say back, I play a bock fugue

411
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Speaker 2: for a little bit, and then I would zoom off

412
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Speaker 2: into something else and play just strictly what was in

413
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Speaker 2: my heart and head. Then I would come back to

414
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 2: the music and play that. So I kind of had

415
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 2: an open dialogue with with the more formal aspects of

416
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Speaker 2: music and attach it to the world of the mind,

417
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Speaker 2: which can take anywhere. It's like a dream.

418
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Speaker 1: Okay, your in venturer at California. What are your parents

419
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:52,680
Speaker 1: doing for a living? How many kids in the family.

420
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Speaker 2: I have a brother three and a half years younger

421
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Speaker 2: than I am, who at one point tried to take

422
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Speaker 2: piano lessons to work. I had a sister that was

423
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 2: nine years older, born in nineteen forty. She had taken

424
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 2: piano lessons and did work for her either. For whatever reason,

425
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 2: it stuck with me. My dad worked as a mechanical engineer,

426
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 2: over at point Ago. He was a civilian, but within

427
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:27,439
Speaker 2: the context of working for the Navy. I guess my

428
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 2: mother was a state home bomb. My family was from Texas.

429
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Speaker 2: My brother at that time was the only person in

430
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 2: the family not born in Texas. He was born in California.

431
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,959
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're in California. Based on what you're seeing.

432
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 1: You fiddled around on the piano and you made some

433
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 1: progress before you even win for lessons.

434
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 2: Yes, the first song by my mother taught me and

435
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:00,959
Speaker 2: watched her play, but I couldn't play like her was

436
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 2: via condos and it was Mary Ford and uh less

437
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 2: uh less Paul. I still have the album cover for it.

438
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 2: While I did solo shows, I showed him that album cover.

439
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 2: Is this just a deep rich uh excuse me, not

440
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 2: album cover, but but sheet music and uh yeah, the

441
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 2: wharf is you know your mother's lap. You're in a

442
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,439
Speaker 2: basement that's cold, a little scary. You're you're in a

443
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 2: piano with the keyser chipped a little bit, and she's

444
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,400
Speaker 2: shown you where to place your fingers to play the melody.

445
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 2: Uh to me that that that submitted a great bond

446
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 2: at that age to my mom. Uh and it introduced

447
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:49,959
Speaker 2: me to an instrument that to this day I still

448
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 2: provides and provokes, uh by by by muse what what

449
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 2: I what? I sit down, I don't often sit down

450
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 2: with an agenda. Aist sit down and play a little bit.

451
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:07,719
Speaker 2: And uh so I'm reacting, reacting on I want a

452
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 2: tactle information from what the way my fingers hit the keys,

453
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 2: and importantly what I'm hearing. And I'm in full recognition

454
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 2: that Beethoven, who is deaf, uh was not provided that.

455
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,959
Speaker 2: But I also know that a trick that my teacher

456
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,239
Speaker 2: taught me, which was when you're you're not always going

457
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 2: to have a piano in front of you, but you

458
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 2: will have a desk, your knees the air, and you

459
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 2: can sit there and play. And when I do that

460
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 2: right now, I'm playing in mid air. Here, I'm in

461
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 2: a key of F F A C. I can hear

462
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 2: it in my head. I go up to the B

463
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 2: flat who play that. I can hit an F with

464
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 2: an E in the base, which is not what you

465
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 2: normally play. That would maybe a passing time to the F.

466
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 2: So these are things that that whether you can hear

467
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 2: the music or not, you can at least hear it

468
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 2: in your head. And then go to arrangements. I've made

469
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 2: ample use of that over the years, with little feet

470
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 2: for arrangements. When I wasn't sitting next to a piano,

471
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 2: I could still figure out what I wanted to do.

472
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: Okay, for some people it comes easy, for some people,

473
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 1: it comes hard.

474
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 2: What was your experience, It was a combination of both

475
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 2: everything that you attack in earnest comes with difficulty and

476
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 2: having a great teacher that's your mode of either have

477
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 2: I got to crawl under the fence, dig under it?

478
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 2: Am I going to go through it? Or am I

479
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 2: going to pull vault over it? And the teacher is

480
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 2: there to give you options and guidance on how to

481
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 2: do that because you're going to hit the wall at

482
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 2: some point. And she also gave me one important lesson too, Bob,

483
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 2: which was at some point when I was given her recital,

484
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 2: I was going to blank out, and she said, don't

485
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 2: let that freak you outtion just that terminology. Don't let

486
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 2: that panic you. It happens to most people. And she

487
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 2: mentioned a couple of her older students where it had

488
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 2: happened to them, and it didn't happen under her watch,

489
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 2: but it did take place, and it was on a

490
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 2: Mozart D major sonata and I completely forgot where I

491
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 2: wasn't a piece, and it about destroyed me. I mean,

492
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 2: I was like, and I looked at it later, I go,

493
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 2: she told you not to let it get you under

494
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 2: your skin, and I did, but not for long.

495
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: Well, just to continue the lesson. If she told you

496
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 1: not to panic, what did she tell you to do

497
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 1: under those circumstances.

498
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 2: She said, just to if you need to get the

499
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 2: music up there to reorient, do that, or try and

500
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 2: find a place where you could could stop and start

501
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 2: again and continue. But in any case, if you had

502
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 2: to just throw up your hands and say you know,

503
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 2: enough is enough, then that's okay too. It's it's a part.

504
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 2: It was like the Terrible Twos. Is the way I

505
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 2: gathered it. It was gonna happen. At some point I

506
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 2: was playing a gig with a solo show at the

507
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 2: Where was it, Maryland? I guess Annapolis, And the audience

508
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 2: is there and they go, hey, sing Dixie Chicken, and

509
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 2: I go, I'm gonna be honest with you. I'm like

510
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 2: driving Miss Daisy in the back of the car. I've

511
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 2: never sun Dixie Chicken. I know I could do it.

512
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 2: But I don't know the lyrics. So I said, why

513
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 2: don't we sing the song together, just a chorus, and

514
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 2: so I started playing with it. Let's do a couple

515
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 2: of rounds. So we did that. Yeah, I've had to

516
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 2: stop and start with I was on stage with James

517
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 2: Taylor in front of twenty thousand people, and I had

518
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 2: a I was hooked up to a a synth helper,

519
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 2: you know, like a I'd recorded some stuff in there,

520
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,479
Speaker 2: and I hit the button laid or I didn't hit

521
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 2: it or whatever happened, and it screwed it up, and

522
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 2: I had to stop the song, and I said to

523
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 2: the audience, I said, we're going to try this again,

524
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 2: but without the alert James, without the recorded music. Take one.

525
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 1: You know.

526
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 2: I just think, you know, there are times when you

527
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 2: can let the audience in on what's behind the curtain,

528
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,959
Speaker 2: and you always have full access to keeping that curtain

529
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 2: where it is too. It's a matter of style, and

530
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:45,239
Speaker 2: I try not to take myself too seriously. The only

531
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 2: thing I take seriously is is having fun while doing it,

532
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 2: but being serious to the to the approach of the

533
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 2: music itself. I call that serious fun. So there's a

534
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 2: reason we have arrangements within little feed or that I've

535
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 2: been able to play on other people's songs and I'm

536
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:10,359
Speaker 2: very quick at what I do generally speaking. Or if

537
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 2: I have a more complex idea and people go, hey,

538
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 2: can we stop it there, and I go, allow me

539
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 2: to do two more things before we stop it. I

540
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 2: want to add another instrument and then this tell me

541
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 2: fore like it or not? They go okay, and then oh, yeah,

542
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 2: that sounds great or whatever. I mean. I've rarely hit

543
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 2: a brick wall to use that terminology again with people

544
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 2: in the studio, but occasionally it's happened. And what it does,

545
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 2: I just say, you know, I think we are just

546
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 2: calling is We're not going to get much further. It's

547
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 2: not an immediate hey, I give up. I don't give up,

548
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 2: but there are just times when you have to know

549
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:51,360
Speaker 2: when enough is enough and say, I'm not communicating with

550
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,919
Speaker 2: this person, with this artist, I don't really have much

551
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:58,800
Speaker 2: to add to this song, and that's okay. Other songs

552
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,360
Speaker 2: will take it place, okay.

553
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,800
Speaker 1: One of the other big issues taking piano lessons is

554
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 1: a kid is practice. Did you practice?

555
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 2: I did practice, to the point were years later. Terry Katz,

556
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 2: who was a kind of a Malliete, a bad guy

557
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 2: that lived beneath me, adventurer. He came up to me

558
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,399
Speaker 2: at the venture A theater years later with little feet,

559
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 2: he says. Then he apologized. He says, you know, I

560
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,240
Speaker 2: didn't know why you had to practice all those years,

561
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,319
Speaker 2: but I get it. I get it down. And so

562
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 2: a part of what I'm writing about my book is

563
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:43,280
Speaker 2: this notion of people thought the other kids thought maybe

564
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:48,319
Speaker 2: I was Liberaci or something. So I would prove I

565
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 2: wasn't a Liberachi by stealing their girlfriends, by hitting a

566
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 2: home run, by making a basket at the center court,

567
00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:00,839
Speaker 2: or whatever the hell I do skateboarding later feet. By

568
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,360
Speaker 2: that time people knew I was a regular guy, and

569
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 2: what is regular these days anyway, But in the fifties, yeah,

570
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 2: there was like you were either el not Elton John.

571
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 2: El Elton John took his cue from Liberaci. You were

572
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 2: either Liberaci or you were you know, Jerry Lee on

573
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 2: the piano, putting your foot on the keyboard. So I

574
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 2: was more of Jerry Lee. But I was also I

575
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 2: had the active to play more of the style that

576
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:36,319
Speaker 2: Liberaci would play, which was classical music. So it was

577
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 2: the practices what allows you to do that, but it

578
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 2: is also something that disengages you or can between you

579
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:48,840
Speaker 2: and the audience. And I've had kind of fun with

580
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:53,239
Speaker 2: in writing this book to describe a little more in

581
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 2: detail what is involved in that, which is not a

582
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 2: heck of a lot more than what I've just told you,

583
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 2: but it's a I could share one more story with

584
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 2: you if you if you'd like sure with with I

585
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 2: was playing with the Doomie Brothers and was on a

586
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 2: particular song and what what I would normally do is

587
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 2: I'd go, this is my second album with them, and

588
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 2: they had a certain kind of kind of eighth notes

589
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 2: feel on the top part of the keyboard. Is the

590
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 2: last song I was playing that day, and I was

591
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 2: a little tired, but I thought, you know, and I

592
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 2: threw in this stupid lick in the bridge and I

593
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:35,919
Speaker 2: stopped the tape. And John Landy was the engineer, Ted

594
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,319
Speaker 2: Tipple was producing. Tom Johnson was behind the could draw

595
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 2: aboard as well. I said, fellas, let me do, let

596
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 2: me do that lick again. I was just goofing around

597
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 2: there go no, no, no, Bill, we like it. I said, no,

598
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 2: I don't like it. It's I was, I don't want

599
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:58,399
Speaker 2: it in there. I was screwing off. Okay, I had

600
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 2: to go inside the con I said when I said

601
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:06,839
Speaker 2: fifth grade, maybe sixth I get called Bill Payne, will

602
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 2: now play the Pianoties assemblies Washington Elementary School Adventure. I'd

603
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 2: get a standing ovation. I would walk up to the keyboard.

604
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 2: I'd play a little Chinese Diddy D d D kind

605
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 2: of song, rock and roll type of thing, and I'd

606
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:26,880
Speaker 2: walk back standing ovation to my chair. I'd go on

607
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 2: the playground and get beat up like everybody else. Twenty

608
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 2: two years later, I get a call from Tom Johnson.

609
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 2: He says, not like, hello, Bill, how are you doing?

610
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 2: It was like, you know that lick that you didn't like?

611
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 2: I go, yeah, Tom, what about it? He says, was

612
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 2: a result of the lick that you didn't want on

613
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 2: the record that we kept in the story you told.

614
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 2: I went home that that evening and called that song

615
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:59,400
Speaker 2: China Grove. I go, you're welcome. Where's my publishing? Hey?

616
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,879
Speaker 2: We fact that over that there we are, so.

617
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 1: The intro to China grow. That's you. You came up

618
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 1: with that.

619
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 2: It was a it was a lick in the middle

620
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 2: of the brit that lick there. I didn't mean, I

621
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 2: did it because I'd meant to do it, but it

622
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 2: was I was kidding around. It was a joke, and

623
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 2: that's why I had explained the joke of the Chinese

624
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 2: songs I played in the other kind of thing, and

625
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:26,839
Speaker 2: not the Chinese music as a joke. Far from it,

626
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 2: but in the context it was so yeah, things like that.

627
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 2: I I uh, I thought that was pretty interesting. And

628
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 2: it might have been twenty four years later as opposed

629
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 2: to twenty two, but it was. It was a long

630
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 2: time later. Tell me and I knew each other for

631
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 2: a long time, so that's kind of fun.

632
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:49,279
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back to the early days. You said,

633
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 1: on one hand, kids perceived you as Liberachi. On another kid,

634
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 1: you know, you were out on a playground getting beaten

635
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 1: up and hitting home runs. So what kind of kid

636
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:01,839
Speaker 1: were you? Good student? Bad student? Did you fit in?

637
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 1: Were you a loner?

638
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 2: I'd say not a great student? Uh, But people recognized

639
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:18,840
Speaker 2: I had musical talent, and that talent was represented in

640
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:24,280
Speaker 2: a couple of fashions. One was there was a a

641
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 2: room that was that was out. It was indoors, but

642
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:31,480
Speaker 2: it was it had an open ceiling, so it was

643
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 2: in the middle of school. Uh. I think I was

644
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 2: probably in third grade. Missus Julie was our principal there

645
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:43,800
Speaker 2: at Washington Elementary, and they put me in this class

646
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:46,919
Speaker 2: with probably four or five other kids, and they said,

647
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 2: you can literally do anything you want to do. And

648
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 2: I looked at them. I did the one or two

649
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 2: teachers what they had there. I said, can I break

650
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 2: these windows? And they said, well, we wouldn't recommend it,

651
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 2: but if that's what you want to do, go ahead.

652
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:05,880
Speaker 2: So we arely these little test subjects as to what

653
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 2: would children do given the opportunity to paint, to work

654
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 2: with clay, you know you wanted to draw, if you

655
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 2: asked for something they didn't have, they provided for you.

656
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:26,400
Speaker 2: What I found out from that was that I was

657
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 2: much better at something if I was given direction to

658
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:34,719
Speaker 2: do it, and then I could augment from there. So

659
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 2: it wasn't a strict hey do it our way to

660
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:40,320
Speaker 2: the highway. Here's what we suggest you do. We'd like

661
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 2: you to paint us a picture of you and the

662
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 2: little girl that lives across the street from you. And

663
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:49,799
Speaker 2: I would have tried to have done that, but just

664
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 2: open that blank canvas, Bob. It stopped me dead in

665
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:57,399
Speaker 2: my tracks. I didn't know what to do. I had

666
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:58,360
Speaker 2: too many options.

667
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're in school, do you have a lot

668
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:10,320
Speaker 1: of friends. Are you into sports?

669
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 2: Yeah? I love sports. I I did have a lot

670
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:21,840
Speaker 2: of friends, mainly on the street I grew up. It

671
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:24,279
Speaker 2: was all girls. There was one guy there, excuse me,

672
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:26,800
Speaker 2: but the rest were girls. So I learned very early

673
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 2: that don't mess with the girls. There are repercussions to that.

674
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:35,360
Speaker 2: And it took me a couple of three times to

675
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:37,880
Speaker 2: learn that lesson, which I forgot later in life, but

676
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 2: it was it centinly hammered into me, almost literally when

677
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 2: I was a kid that you know, girls are tough.

678
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 2: If you want to play the Alamo with them, fine,

679
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:52,400
Speaker 2: if you hit him with a Katie stab, or the

680
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:56,840
Speaker 2: girls running across the field, you leader with the dirt

681
00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:59,840
Speaker 2: clod and hit her in the head, other repercussions to that.

682
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 2: What's their work? But in school, in general, I was

683
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 2: not super shy. I went to the in sixth grade

684
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 2: there was a track meet and I asked the school

685
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:17,880
Speaker 2: if we could take I was a program chairman was

686
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 2: voted in for that. Could we take half a day

687
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 2: off to hold the track meet? And we couldn't hold

688
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 2: the track meet with Doctor Coffee, which are the people

689
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 2: they held it before because they had issues with insurance

690
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:38,320
Speaker 2: and with I guess kids got injured or something somehow

691
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 2: or another. I, because I really wanted it, I convinced

692
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:44,439
Speaker 2: him to do exactly that, give us a half day off.

693
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,759
Speaker 2: We had pole vault, we had high jump, we were

694
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 2: doing races, We're doing all kinds of things. So when

695
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 2: pressed to the wall again with something I really want

696
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 2: to do, I was capable of craying out of my

697
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:02,799
Speaker 2: shell and making sure it happened. So I felt I

698
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:05,400
Speaker 2: was sort of an anomaly in a certain sense and

699
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 2: that I possessed enough moxie to step up when I

700
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 2: needed to. But in general, if I walked into a

701
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 2: restaurant and somebody singing Happy Birthday to me when they

702
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 2: knew it wasn't my birthday, I was embarrassed. Now, I

703
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:31,240
Speaker 2: haven't been embarrassed in a long long time. But I didn't.

704
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 2: I didn't come out of the box that way. I

705
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:37,879
Speaker 2: came out like, hey, is is it safe? That kind

706
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:43,960
Speaker 2: of thing. And I didn't even know as a musician

707
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:47,280
Speaker 2: that I wanted to be in a band. The first

708
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:50,280
Speaker 2: band I auditioned for was after I lost my teacher

709
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 2: at age fifteen, and I auditioned not to play piano

710
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:56,320
Speaker 2: on this band, but I play. I auditioned to play drums.

711
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:58,760
Speaker 2: So what does that tell you?

712
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 1: You know, it leaves a lot of open questions.

713
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 2: It does, which which is the reason I'm writing this book,

714
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 2: because I you would think with the way I played

715
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 2: piano and with the activeum I played Donald with a

716
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 2: little beat with everybody else I've had the privilege of

717
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 2: playing with. Uh, I'm not shy about it. I mean,

718
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:21,240
Speaker 2: I take it unless I'm asked to hit a hold

719
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 2: out or in the case of playing with with with

720
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 2: Bob Asron and oh Man, I did every think of

721
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 2: the band name the guys that did the wall Pink

722
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 2: Floyd wouldn't played Pink Floyd. Bob Asward told me every

723
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 2: note to play, so I went, okay. Jeff Ricarr was there, Uh,

724
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:48,839
Speaker 2: the guitar player David was there, and I just if

725
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 2: those guys don't care, now, I'll just play in an

726
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 2: A C JRB. You know. Uh, when Jackson Brown did

727
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:57,880
Speaker 2: that to me, I said, why don't you come out

728
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 2: here and play the song? Jackson because on his I

729
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 2: think it was his second album, and I played on

730
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 2: one song already, but every time i'd play a chord,

731
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 2: you go play like this, and I'd play in a

732
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 2: couple of bars, no play instead of D F sharp

733
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 2: A play F sharp a D. I finally said, would

734
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 2: you come in the room play this for me? So

735
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 2: he did, and I said, is there any earthly reason

736
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 2: you're getting me to play like you when you can

737
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 2: play it just fine and you're wasting your time and

738
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:34,719
Speaker 2: money getting me to do that. And so he was.

739
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 2: That year that we had that conversation, the Playboy magazine

740
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 2: had him and so I think Rock Piano Player of

741
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:48,320
Speaker 2: the Year. And I said, well, you call me back.

742
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 2: If you called me back, I will take direction, but

743
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 2: I want to be able to put some of myself

744
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 2: into it as well. So the song was here come

745
00:46:55,640 --> 00:47:01,000
Speaker 2: those Tears again on the Pretender album, and I played

746
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 2: on more than a couple songs on that record. I

747
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:05,400
Speaker 2: was able to kind of do what I wanted. The Pretender,

748
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:08,359
Speaker 2: by the way, is Fred Tackett, who plays a little

749
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 2: feet which I never knew or didn't know it a

750
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 2: few years ago.

751
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:18,440
Speaker 1: I mean, the Pretender is Fred Tackett. Yes, explain a

752
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 1: little bit, since you know Fred I can't imagine what

753
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:26,880
Speaker 1: it means. I mean, Fred is he's just he's from Arkansas.

754
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 2: He's uh uh. He's probably done as many or more

755
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 2: session session work than I have. There was a session

756
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:41,320
Speaker 2: in which we were playing for Abraham L. Boreal and

757
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 2: I've had his son, of course, who's playing right with

758
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 2: Sir Paul McCartney anyway, Ale Boil, Jeff Pacar on drums,

759
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:53,240
Speaker 2: Fred Tackett on guitar acoustic guitar, and I played keyboards.

760
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:56,160
Speaker 2: The producer calls me into the room says, what's Fred

761
00:47:56,200 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 2: Tackett doing? I said, what tracksy on? Yes seventeen and eighteen.

762
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 2: I went on to the board as Richard Perry Studio

763
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:08,359
Speaker 2: Studio fifty four in Hollywood. I pulled both faders down

764
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 2: and the track even with Jeff and Abe and myself

765
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 2: almost visibly sagged. I said, he's your glue. And I

766
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:20,239
Speaker 2: pushed the tracks back up and walked out of the room.

767
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:23,719
Speaker 2: So what he could have been the pretender about is

768
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 2: beyond me. He was more like a glass of water,

769
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:31,799
Speaker 2: which may maybe kind of the same thing, which is

770
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 2: who is he? Is? He really who we think he is? There?

771
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:37,719
Speaker 2: He's the pretender. I don't know the lyrics to Jackson's song.

772
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:40,839
Speaker 1: Well, I certainly do. But well, let me go back

773
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:43,720
Speaker 1: a chapter. I was talking about being in high school

774
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:49,319
Speaker 1: and you talked about stealing the girl friend. And it's

775
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 1: funny that you mentioned that, because that would imply a

776
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:57,080
Speaker 1: strong inner confidence. In addition, I know how hard it

777
00:48:57,200 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 1: is to make it. Could you amplify what you were

778
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 1: talking about about there or why you mentioned that.

779
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 2: I mentioned that because it was Hey, it was true.

780
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:10,480
Speaker 2: It was it was a step of of of showing

781
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:14,040
Speaker 2: those that they might have thought because I played piano

782
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 2: and was not always at the practice field to play

783
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 2: softball or wherever, Uh, that maybe I wasn't as manly

784
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:27,320
Speaker 2: as they thought and it wasn't a competition along those lines,

785
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:30,279
Speaker 2: or was I supposed to be. But I kind of

786
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:34,440
Speaker 2: took it as such. And I do have that passive

787
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 2: aggressive nature of I could be very competitive with people

788
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 2: when put to the test, but I don't like doing it.

789
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 2: But but if it's there, I'll go for it. And

790
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:49,719
Speaker 2: so if it was because I grew up with a

791
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:53,560
Speaker 2: block full of girls, I wasn't intimidated by them or

792
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:56,960
Speaker 2: off foot by the fact that they were different than us,

793
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:00,799
Speaker 2: I used it as a way just to to act

794
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:03,719
Speaker 2: as a cool guy until I got older and then

795
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 2: got flustered by it in a couple of times in

796
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:10,440
Speaker 2: my life, but in general, I just thought, yeah, I

797
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:14,759
Speaker 2: feel confident in being a guy. And did I think

798
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:17,359
Speaker 2: Marilyn Monroe in the seven year itch was beautiful and

799
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 2: would have loved to kissed her and whatever? And I thought, yeah,

800
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:27,040
Speaker 2: she's gorgeous. I liked women. I like girls, so there's

801
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 2: one way, one way to do it, or to be involved.

802
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 2: And later, much later, the cliche is, yeah, I started

803
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 2: playing rock and roll so I could meet girls. Well, yeah,

804
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:42,040
Speaker 2: that's part of it, but it certainly wasn't the whole thing.

805
00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:45,839
Speaker 1: Okay, let's stay there. Your first band, you say you're

806
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:50,719
Speaker 1: gonna play drums. At what point do you want to

807
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:53,879
Speaker 1: play with other people? And music is changing while you're

808
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:57,160
Speaker 1: doing this. You know, rock comes in in the early fifties,

809
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:00,080
Speaker 1: then we have Elvis in the mid fifty then we

810
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:04,439
Speaker 1: have the crap pop acts of Fabian Bobby ry Dell,

811
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:06,920
Speaker 1: and then the Beatles come in in sixty four. So

812
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 1: what was going on in your life is all these

813
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:10,480
Speaker 1: things were happening in music.

814
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:14,480
Speaker 2: Having a sister that was nine years older than me.

815
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 2: She introduced me to Elvis Presley by virtue of the

816
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 2: fact she went down to the record store to buy

817
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:27,600
Speaker 2: a hound dog, and I was as enamored with the

818
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:31,120
Speaker 2: music as I was the visual of the RCA label

819
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 2: with the dog listening to the phonograph, so I liked

820
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 2: both a lot. I also, like most kids, grew up

821
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:41,960
Speaker 2: listening to radio, and there was a guy named Dick

822
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:46,400
Speaker 2: Shipley who was one of the DJs Adventura, and we

823
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:50,359
Speaker 2: had the rotary fronts. So the first caller to call

824
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:55,280
Speaker 2: in will win a record. So I'd have my second

825
00:51:55,360 --> 00:52:00,479
Speaker 2: finger on a first finger on the last the dial,

826
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 2: I'd be the first caller. Well, the record I won

827
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:09,080
Speaker 2: was The Ghost of Billy Mloo by Dorsey Burnett, and

828
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 2: Dorsey's son was Billy. He had a brother too, I guess.

829
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 2: So music was magic to me. Okay, great, but what

830
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:23,520
Speaker 2: is the application the application of of of music and

831
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 2: rock and roll and where I would fit into it

832
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 2: was a more arduous and long process. So by the

833
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:35,200
Speaker 2: time I got to the point of auditioning to play drums,

834
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:38,400
Speaker 2: I was aware of a lot of different music. I

835
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:41,480
Speaker 2: liked a lot of different styles. I liked everything from

836
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 2: Alley Oop by the Hollywood Argyles to uh, you know

837
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:56,640
Speaker 2: the Brtie Robins song, you know al Paso with a

838
00:52:56,680 --> 00:53:00,920
Speaker 2: cool guitar and all that. I fell in love with

839
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 2: the Beatles, but I also fell in love with the

840
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 2: Rolling Stones. Oh you can't love them both? I go, well,

841
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:11,359
Speaker 2: I bloody well, kine mate, it's alright. So that kind

842
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:17,799
Speaker 2: of thing I just taking and choosing battles is a

843
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 2: part of I've spent a whole lifetime going well, why

844
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:23,959
Speaker 2: did you do that? Why are you doing it this way?

845
00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:27,280
Speaker 2: Why would you do this? You know? I hadn't written.

846
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:32,280
Speaker 2: I wrote one song called Tripping Out in nineteen sixty six.

847
00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:39,719
Speaker 2: The label was Psychedelic Records, Acid Ad Productions that it

848
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:44,360
Speaker 2: was a group called Something Wild. Okay, well something Wild.

849
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:48,360
Speaker 2: In nineteen sixty six we had our photograph taken with

850
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:52,520
Speaker 2: Peter Asher. Peter Gordon sixty six, I would have been

851
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:55,600
Speaker 2: seventeen years old age. If it were February, I would

852
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:59,720
Speaker 2: have been sixteen. So I've got a pretty good photo

853
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:03,400
Speaker 2: of and I standing next to each other at least

854
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:06,479
Speaker 2: ted twelve years before we actually met each other. Later.

855
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:09,200
Speaker 2: It's a Dickinson tale in other words, which is the

856
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:14,000
Speaker 2: reason I'm writing this book. But the obvious for me

857
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:19,359
Speaker 2: has not always been obvious. And I'm not slow, Bob,

858
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:22,719
Speaker 2: but I just sometimes the application is something that takes

859
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:25,799
Speaker 2: me a little while longer to figure out.

860
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 1: Okay, living in Ventura, which is a beach community, although

861
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:33,919
Speaker 1: somewhat of a city there, how big a deal were

862
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:37,919
Speaker 1: the Beach Boys, Gen and Dean surf music for you.

863
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:41,920
Speaker 2: It was a real big deal. And I just had

864
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:44,320
Speaker 2: a nice shout out from one of the guys on

865
00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:49,600
Speaker 2: the Beach Boys the other day. There were I didn't

866
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:52,640
Speaker 2: really know the cats, but I mean my brother knew.

867
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:59,040
Speaker 2: Carl and Van Dyke, Parks and Brian and I were

868
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:03,400
Speaker 2: out of piano at Sunset Sound. Van Dyke ushered me

869
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:07,200
Speaker 2: into the Rimses play the song with us, so myself, Brian,

870
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:14,560
Speaker 2: you know, Brian and Van Dyke, we're playing this tune.

871
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:18,160
Speaker 2: But at Janadine, I love the music. I love I

872
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:24,480
Speaker 2: was a surfer. Other than getting invited by Jackie Stewart

873
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:27,319
Speaker 2: to play with the Rolling Stones in nineteen I think

874
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 2: it was nineteen eighty eighty one, must been eighty one.

875
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:33,759
Speaker 2: One of the biggest thrills of my life was to

876
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:36,879
Speaker 2: be asked to join a surf club because the guy

877
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:40,640
Speaker 2: saw me surfing at C Street in Ventura, and I go,

878
00:55:40,719 --> 00:55:43,439
Speaker 2: you want to join this club, which I did, And

879
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:46,759
Speaker 2: about a week later, down in wind and Sea, I

880
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:48,880
Speaker 2: got run over by somebody else surfing out there, and

881
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:52,960
Speaker 2: I had nine stitches put into my hand. And the

882
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:58,280
Speaker 2: doctor saw me. I go, where can I go surfing again?

883
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 2: I would say two weeks? Yes. So I went over

884
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:04,280
Speaker 2: to my parents and they said, what did doctor say?

885
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:07,800
Speaker 2: They didn't even go with me to the and they said,

886
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:11,279
Speaker 2: he said, I go surfing immediately. So I went went

887
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:13,960
Speaker 2: out surf for a couple of weeks, came back and go, oh,

888
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:19,120
Speaker 2: this looks remarkably well. It's it's dry, it's it's looking fine.

889
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:22,320
Speaker 2: You came within a millimeter of losing the use of

890
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:26,239
Speaker 2: your left hand, by the way, I go, okay, doc, hey,

891
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:29,640
Speaker 2: when can I go surfing again? Oh? I'd waited another

892
00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:32,719
Speaker 2: two weeks and I why at the door and went

893
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:35,760
Speaker 2: down the beach went surfing. So I have a problem

894
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 2: with authority right, which is another place where musicians and

895
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:45,160
Speaker 2: people with creative inpulses kind of coalesced. Sometimes not always,

896
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:48,960
Speaker 2: but a good percentage of the time we do it.

897
00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:55,839
Speaker 2: Counts for all kinds of mischief and for being particularly

898
00:56:55,840 --> 00:57:01,000
Speaker 2: thrown into that that that uh not that many years

899
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:02,919
Speaker 2: after we got out of school, like in the late

900
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:09,760
Speaker 2: sixties with LSD and everything else that was coming into vogue.

901
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:13,920
Speaker 2: It it was like a fire burning through a forest.

902
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:18,480
Speaker 2: It took out a lot of people, you know, it

903
00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:20,880
Speaker 2: was just it was just something we had to do.

904
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:26,600
Speaker 2: It's it's a historic point in time, as something like

905
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:33,080
Speaker 2: yourself knows rather well. I look at myself as a survivor,

906
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:35,960
Speaker 2: but I also found out pretty early that I couldn't

907
00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:39,480
Speaker 2: keep up with people that had a different bent towards

908
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:43,680
Speaker 2: towards that type of thing. So uh, you know, I

909
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:46,800
Speaker 2: I think of myself as fortunate. I also think of

910
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:50,920
Speaker 2: myself as fortunate of being a little feet where the

911
00:57:51,240 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 2: emphasis to put little feet together between Law and I was,

912
00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:57,680
Speaker 2: let's have a vehicle that is expandable, that fits whatever

913
00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:00,200
Speaker 2: music we're trying to play. Do we need horns, do

914
00:58:00,240 --> 00:58:04,800
Speaker 2: we need another guitar player? Should we contemplate another keyboard player?

915
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:08,040
Speaker 2: What do we need? Let's come to it based on

916
00:58:08,120 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 2: the music that we're playing and what we think we

917
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:14,360
Speaker 2: need at the time. And so rather than the first

918
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:17,160
Speaker 2: set of music that we played for Ahmed Erdigon, which

919
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:22,200
Speaker 2: were essentially all instrumentals and more like Frank Zappa esque

920
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:31,000
Speaker 2: type of music. We rather shortly after Ahmed said, boys,

921
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:35,520
Speaker 2: it's too diverse. So we went back to the drawing

922
00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:38,600
Speaker 2: board and went, oh, okay, so we put the songs

923
00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:44,720
Speaker 2: that Brides of Jesus, Hamburger, Midnight, Strawberry Flats, I've been

924
00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:47,200
Speaker 2: to One, taking my Time. All these songs that were

925
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:52,040
Speaker 2: the titles themselves display Captain Gunbow willing display a diversity

926
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:55,640
Speaker 2: and eclecticism. You can imagine this type of music we

927
00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:57,920
Speaker 2: played for amedt Erdgon. It must have been off the charts.

928
00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:01,640
Speaker 2: And much later when I found out who Erdigand was

929
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:05,439
Speaker 2: and his association with Ray Charles, I go, oh my god.

930
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:07,160
Speaker 2: If I'd known who he was, I would have been

931
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:08,560
Speaker 2: too embarrassed to play it for him.

932
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:13,280
Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back. So you try out for being

933
00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:17,360
Speaker 1: the drums. Do you play in Being's in high school?

934
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:21,080
Speaker 1: Do you stop your education after high school? You go

935
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:24,040
Speaker 1: to community college or college? And at what point do

936
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 1: you say, yeah, I want to play music for a living.

937
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:33,960
Speaker 2: The drum instance only took place during the audition for

938
00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:38,520
Speaker 2: this particular band, and I'd had a bad go of

939
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:42,160
Speaker 2: a venture where I drank too much and I didn't

940
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:46,479
Speaker 2: want to kill myself, but it almost happened. My parents

941
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:49,520
Speaker 2: picked me up. They go, there's a kid. There's her mother,

942
00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:52,000
Speaker 2: I mean his mother called and watched an audition for

943
00:59:52,040 --> 00:59:54,880
Speaker 2: a band. That was them saying we want to try

944
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:57,840
Speaker 2: and help you out. Here. During the audition, there's a

945
00:59:57,880 --> 01:00:02,640
Speaker 2: piano setup in that we're playing in. I ambled over

946
01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:05,840
Speaker 2: to it and with the lifted the top up, didn't

947
01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:09,200
Speaker 2: sit down to stood there and play. They go, hey, wait,

948
01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:12,400
Speaker 2: wait a minute, here, you play the piano. I go,

949
01:00:12,600 --> 01:00:15,800
Speaker 2: I guess I've been playing the piano for ten years.

950
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:18,600
Speaker 2: At that point, they said, forget this band. Here. We've

951
01:00:18,600 --> 01:00:21,280
Speaker 2: got a band down the street. It's called the Debonairs.

952
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:26,120
Speaker 2: You're gonna play keyboards. Forget the drums. So yeah, I

953
01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:31,240
Speaker 2: played drums. I played keyboards far Fisa, Oregon, which is

954
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:35,760
Speaker 2: like an earwing buzzing into your head and drawing your

955
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:39,800
Speaker 2: brain full of holes. I know there was a horrible sound,

956
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:43,040
Speaker 2: but everybody and the brother was using it. So I

957
01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:46,160
Speaker 2: played that instrument through high school. I went to a

958
01:00:46,200 --> 01:00:51,000
Speaker 2: year and a half of junior college, which included let's

959
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:54,720
Speaker 2: see Alan Handcock Junior College, which is in Santa Maria,

960
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:56,840
Speaker 2: which is where I was going to high school. So

961
01:00:56,880 --> 01:01:00,320
Speaker 2: I moved from venture to Santa Maria and I school

962
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:05,400
Speaker 2: and I went back to a half semester Adventure Junior College.

963
01:01:06,080 --> 01:01:09,240
Speaker 2: And I might add that my volleyball coach at Alan

964
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:13,880
Speaker 2: Hancock was John Matton, who was running a football team there,

965
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:16,400
Speaker 2: and a year later was down in San Diego and

966
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:20,000
Speaker 2: they went up to Tolkland. I go, I like that guy. Oh,

967
01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:23,160
Speaker 2: that was my volleyball teacher. But he never taught us anything.

968
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:25,640
Speaker 2: He says, show up, you make this grade, show up

969
01:01:25,640 --> 01:01:28,200
Speaker 2: to this thing, you make this grade, etc. I got

970
01:01:28,200 --> 01:01:32,360
Speaker 2: a football team and walked away from us.

971
01:01:34,800 --> 01:01:37,800
Speaker 1: Okay, so what's the motivation to stop your education and

972
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:40,880
Speaker 1: what's going on with your professional musical career at that time.

973
01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:44,680
Speaker 2: Frank Salazar, who was my counselor and he was also

974
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:49,600
Speaker 2: the conductor of the orchestra Adventurer Junior College, I had

975
01:01:49,600 --> 01:01:52,600
Speaker 2: a one on one with him toward the end of

976
01:01:52,640 --> 01:01:56,240
Speaker 2: that first semester. This is in sixty eight. The world

977
01:01:56,320 --> 01:01:59,080
Speaker 2: was on fire literally and figuratively in sixty eight with

978
01:01:59,120 --> 01:02:05,960
Speaker 2: the assassination of Martin Luther King of Robert Kennedy, the

979
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:11,920
Speaker 2: continuation of the riots throughout the United States in the

980
01:02:11,960 --> 01:02:17,960
Speaker 2: black communities of Detroit, La. Etc. It was just a

981
01:02:18,040 --> 01:02:20,880
Speaker 2: rough time, and the Vietnam War was in full swing,

982
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:28,640
Speaker 2: and I was bound and determined to join a band

983
01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:34,360
Speaker 2: that would bring me up to some sort of value

984
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:38,840
Speaker 2: musically that I felt I deserved. I wasn't much for

985
01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:43,080
Speaker 2: jamming in the ky of a for twenty thirty minutes

986
01:02:43,120 --> 01:02:45,720
Speaker 2: at a time and then jamming in the KIVD for another

987
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:49,200
Speaker 2: thirty minutes. It didn't speak to me. I could do it,

988
01:02:49,320 --> 01:02:54,480
Speaker 2: but I didn't like it. So he said, look, if

989
01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:56,560
Speaker 2: you want to get out of here, I don't blame you.

990
01:02:56,640 --> 01:03:00,880
Speaker 2: We can't teach you anything. Here gonna be drafted if

991
01:03:01,040 --> 01:03:04,920
Speaker 2: if you get out of the out of school. I said, well,

992
01:03:04,920 --> 01:03:10,360
Speaker 2: I'll take that chance. So there's the impetus and the

993
01:03:12,480 --> 01:03:15,480
Speaker 2: pretty real roadblock that was in front of me just

994
01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:19,000
Speaker 2: to search out who. Not that long after would be

995
01:03:19,040 --> 01:03:23,640
Speaker 2: Lowell George. And this was in sixty nine. The my

996
01:03:25,040 --> 01:03:28,680
Speaker 2: semester Inventure Junior College was in sixty eight. So by

997
01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:32,440
Speaker 2: sixty nine, I'm out there, done with the dog paddling.

998
01:03:33,160 --> 01:03:35,000
Speaker 2: I'm going to start swimming and see where it takes me.

999
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:39,640
Speaker 2: I went first in northern California to a band up there,

1000
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:41,920
Speaker 2: and I met a couple of people there, but I

1001
01:03:41,960 --> 01:03:45,000
Speaker 2: didn't I wasn't confident enough in who I was and

1002
01:03:45,120 --> 01:03:52,200
Speaker 2: my abilities to know the avenue or to choose a

1003
01:03:52,240 --> 01:03:56,120
Speaker 2: path on how to present myself to people. I heard

1004
01:03:56,120 --> 01:03:59,200
Speaker 2: the album Uncle Meat after turning down a couple of

1005
01:03:59,240 --> 01:04:03,160
Speaker 2: bands up there, and this is Frank Zappa's record. I went, man,

1006
01:04:03,240 --> 01:04:05,920
Speaker 2: that's a kind of music I want to play. So

1007
01:04:05,960 --> 01:04:08,760
Speaker 2: I went back to a La Vista, which is kind

1008
01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:13,880
Speaker 2: of a home base about an hour south of Santa Maria,

1009
01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:20,880
Speaker 2: next to UCSB, the University at Santa Barbara, and with

1010
01:04:20,960 --> 01:04:24,479
Speaker 2: a phony calling card. There are two people I could

1011
01:04:24,520 --> 01:04:28,000
Speaker 2: call two labels. One of the Straight Records, the other

1012
01:04:28,160 --> 01:04:32,320
Speaker 2: was Bizarre. They were both Frank Zappa's label. I chose

1013
01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:35,840
Speaker 2: Bizarre and I called to the lady there, and not

1014
01:04:36,080 --> 01:04:41,000
Speaker 2: with one conversation, with maybe four or five, perhaps I

1015
01:04:41,000 --> 01:04:44,320
Speaker 2: convinced her that I was an okay kid. I was

1016
01:04:44,400 --> 01:04:47,080
Speaker 2: new to all this. I wasn't sure how to do anything,

1017
01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:52,960
Speaker 2: but I needed her help, and not initially, but shortly thereafter,

1018
01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:55,240
Speaker 2: she put me in touch with Loel George, who had

1019
01:04:55,240 --> 01:04:58,360
Speaker 2: been asked to start his own band by Frank Zappa.

1020
01:05:00,120 --> 01:05:01,080
Speaker 2: Ti I met Lowell.

1021
01:05:08,120 --> 01:05:11,240
Speaker 1: Okay, just going sideways for a second. Whatever happened with.

1022
01:05:11,240 --> 01:05:15,560
Speaker 2: The draft, I was drafted shortly after I got in

1023
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:22,080
Speaker 2: uh in Little Vee and Uh. I will keep this

1024
01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:25,160
Speaker 2: trunk caded because it's a it's a long and involved story,

1025
01:05:25,680 --> 01:05:30,560
Speaker 2: but the gist of it was I got the shrink

1026
01:05:30,640 --> 01:05:34,840
Speaker 2: to at l A. You know, before you can say oh,

1027
01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:37,919
Speaker 2: I'm gay, I'm I'm this, I'm mad, they go, well, hey,

1028
01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:39,720
Speaker 2: now come on in. We don't care what you are.

1029
01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:41,360
Speaker 2: You're going to the army and you're gonna go down

1030
01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:44,480
Speaker 2: to Vietnam fight. Uh. A dear friend of mine, Gar

1031
01:05:44,560 --> 01:05:50,560
Speaker 2: Huffman Uh he and his brother Duh. Gar was older

1032
01:05:50,600 --> 01:05:54,240
Speaker 2: than d and I and he was a medic in Vietnam.

1033
01:05:54,600 --> 01:05:57,240
Speaker 2: He said, whatever you guys do, do not come down here.

1034
01:05:57,880 --> 01:06:00,240
Speaker 2: It's it is a free for all and in a

1035
01:06:00,240 --> 01:06:04,840
Speaker 2: good way. And if you've got to go to Canada,

1036
01:06:05,480 --> 01:06:07,280
Speaker 2: do it whatever you have to do. Don't don't come

1037
01:06:07,320 --> 01:06:11,640
Speaker 2: to don't get drafted. So I took that as a

1038
01:06:12,640 --> 01:06:14,400
Speaker 2: means of I'm going to do whatever it takes not

1039
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:17,160
Speaker 2: to get drafted, which is why I made the shrink

1040
01:06:17,800 --> 01:06:22,080
Speaker 2: after several maneuvers, cut down three flights of stairs at

1041
01:06:22,200 --> 01:06:25,400
Speaker 2: LA at the LA draft board to order me out

1042
01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:27,240
Speaker 2: of there and send me to a hospital. We'll draft

1043
01:06:27,320 --> 01:06:31,520
Speaker 2: him later. And a nurse saw me at the hospital

1044
01:06:31,960 --> 01:06:34,920
Speaker 2: as this young doctor was walking in. She goes, doctor,

1045
01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:38,280
Speaker 2: he's nothing but an animal, and I go, yeah, lady,

1046
01:06:38,280 --> 01:06:39,400
Speaker 2: and you're the one who wants me to go off

1047
01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:42,000
Speaker 2: and kill people I don't know, and I have no

1048
01:06:42,080 --> 01:06:45,720
Speaker 2: business having a rifle or I don't believe in this

1049
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:50,240
Speaker 2: war period. And not long after that needed Walter Cronkite.

1050
01:06:50,320 --> 01:06:54,120
Speaker 2: So it was. It was that kind of world. Bob

1051
01:06:54,120 --> 01:06:55,800
Speaker 2: as she as. You know, we're about the same age.

1052
01:06:55,840 --> 01:06:59,960
Speaker 2: I'm a little older than you, but we were. Faith

1053
01:07:00,280 --> 01:07:03,200
Speaker 2: was something that was just kind of like where we

1054
01:07:03,240 --> 01:07:06,880
Speaker 2: are now, insurmountable in terms of where does the truth lie,

1055
01:07:07,080 --> 01:07:10,240
Speaker 2: what does truth mean? Does it mean anything?

1056
01:07:12,240 --> 01:07:15,320
Speaker 1: Okay, just to be clear, you talk to the shrink

1057
01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:17,520
Speaker 1: and he put you in the hospital after you told

1058
01:07:17,560 --> 01:07:17,840
Speaker 1: them what.

1059
01:07:20,920 --> 01:07:23,640
Speaker 2: I didn't say a word. I was lying there at

1060
01:07:23,640 --> 01:07:27,120
Speaker 2: a fetal position, and I made them make the action

1061
01:07:27,240 --> 01:07:30,320
Speaker 2: of physically picking me up and putting me on a bus.

1062
01:07:30,360 --> 01:07:34,600
Speaker 2: To ford ord or ordering people to send me to

1063
01:07:34,640 --> 01:07:38,360
Speaker 2: a hospital, which is what the guy did. But that

1064
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:42,480
Speaker 2: was probably my fourth time, certain my second or third note,

1065
01:07:42,560 --> 01:07:44,760
Speaker 2: I want to but what my third time at that

1066
01:07:44,880 --> 01:07:49,440
Speaker 2: draft board. What's the first time I went through? I

1067
01:07:49,480 --> 01:07:53,280
Speaker 2: signed everything they put in front of me, saying that

1068
01:07:53,320 --> 01:07:56,520
Speaker 2: I wouldn't and I realized rather early on there was

1069
01:07:56,600 --> 01:08:03,160
Speaker 2: call of the book First Circle by soultsanitsa where you're

1070
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:06,240
Speaker 2: in a holding tank someplace and you don't know if

1071
01:08:06,240 --> 01:08:11,200
Speaker 2: it's day or night, so hours don't mean anything. Time

1072
01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:14,600
Speaker 2: doesn't mean anything. And later on I went, oh, that's

1073
01:08:14,600 --> 01:08:18,320
Speaker 2: like being in a recording studio you kind of divorced from.

1074
01:08:18,439 --> 01:08:20,439
Speaker 2: If they don't have windows in there, you can be

1075
01:08:20,439 --> 01:08:23,880
Speaker 2: in there for ten hours. And it's like the theory

1076
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:27,639
Speaker 2: of relativity. According to Einstein, if you have a beautiful

1077
01:08:28,040 --> 01:08:30,160
Speaker 2: woman on your lap for a minute, it seems like

1078
01:08:30,240 --> 01:08:33,439
Speaker 2: an hour. If you have a person maybe not so

1079
01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:37,759
Speaker 2: beautiful on your lab for or excuse me for anyway,

1080
01:08:37,840 --> 01:08:40,240
Speaker 2: I got it reverse time. It's a sexist tale. I

1081
01:08:40,240 --> 01:08:45,880
Speaker 2: shouldn't tell it anyway, But I just thought, I've got

1082
01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:49,360
Speaker 2: to take the chance on not being drafted so I

1083
01:08:49,360 --> 01:08:52,000
Speaker 2: can play with little feet and that's exactly what I did.

1084
01:08:52,840 --> 01:08:58,960
Speaker 1: Okay, what did you tell this woman in herb Cohne's office? Bizarre?

1085
01:08:59,640 --> 01:09:02,519
Speaker 1: That would have vated her to put you together with Lowell.

1086
01:09:05,560 --> 01:09:09,519
Speaker 2: I told her that I had taken piano lessons for

1087
01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:13,599
Speaker 2: a long time. I played locally with several bands as

1088
01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:17,000
Speaker 2: I got older. I wanted to keep it short, and

1089
01:09:17,400 --> 01:09:20,960
Speaker 2: I told her that I love Frank's music. I didn't

1090
01:09:21,240 --> 01:09:24,320
Speaker 2: want to meet Lowell. I want to meet Frank. Frank

1091
01:09:24,479 --> 01:09:27,719
Speaker 2: was over in Europe. He wouldn't be back for a month,

1092
01:09:28,360 --> 01:09:30,719
Speaker 2: so that month interim. Would you be okay with meeting

1093
01:09:32,040 --> 01:09:34,759
Speaker 2: Lowell George? This is after introduced me to Jeffrey Simmons,

1094
01:09:34,800 --> 01:09:40,479
Speaker 2: who was with a group called Eureka. Would Jeff heard

1095
01:09:40,520 --> 01:09:44,599
Speaker 2: me play at the Tropicana Hotel? Which is in his room?

1096
01:09:45,200 --> 01:09:48,240
Speaker 2: He had a keyboard setup. He then goes, well, I

1097
01:09:48,320 --> 01:09:51,160
Speaker 2: played keyboards too, and I'm going, well, that's great. Why'd

1098
01:09:51,160 --> 01:09:53,960
Speaker 2: you have me come down here? But I didn't say that.

1099
01:09:53,960 --> 01:09:57,160
Speaker 2: I go, Okay, call this person back and there's a

1100
01:09:57,160 --> 01:10:00,240
Speaker 2: guy named Lowell George you might want to meet. So

1101
01:10:00,320 --> 01:10:03,479
Speaker 2: it's like a lot of things is very secuitous route

1102
01:10:04,040 --> 01:10:07,760
Speaker 2: to meeting Lowell and Indeed when I when I went

1103
01:10:07,800 --> 01:10:12,320
Speaker 2: to his house, I had it set up and there

1104
01:10:12,400 --> 01:10:16,160
Speaker 2: was this beautiful blonde girl sitting cross legged on the floor,

1105
01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:23,479
Speaker 2: doors open his summertime. She's listening to Eric's satti. She goes, oh,

1106
01:10:23,520 --> 01:10:26,080
Speaker 2: you must be built. Lowell's expected you. He will be

1107
01:10:26,160 --> 01:10:29,800
Speaker 2: back in four or five hours. I said, well, what

1108
01:10:29,840 --> 01:10:36,559
Speaker 2: does he do when he's not expected you? So so

1109
01:10:36,840 --> 01:10:37,880
Speaker 2: continue the story.

1110
01:10:37,960 --> 01:10:40,040
Speaker 1: So we'll tell us about ultimately meeting him.

1111
01:10:40,600 --> 01:10:44,439
Speaker 2: So when he came in, I spent a because she

1112
01:10:44,560 --> 01:10:47,200
Speaker 2: left not too long after that, I had a long

1113
01:10:47,240 --> 01:10:50,000
Speaker 2: time to, like, you know, steady his house. He had

1114
01:10:50,040 --> 01:10:54,320
Speaker 2: a sitar on the back corner, right down corner of

1115
01:10:54,680 --> 01:10:58,280
Speaker 2: the wall in this rustic house in the LUs Felis

1116
01:10:58,360 --> 01:11:05,320
Speaker 2: area off a in Lamont Drive, and he uh he

1117
01:11:05,320 --> 01:11:07,880
Speaker 2: had a samurai sword on the on the very back wall.

1118
01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:12,600
Speaker 2: Next to that was a kitchen, very rustic in nature. Uh.

1119
01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:18,760
Speaker 2: His record collection included uh oh by John Coltrane. He

1120
01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:21,080
Speaker 2: had an album that that Frank Szapp had released on

1121
01:11:21,200 --> 01:11:26,760
Speaker 2: Lenny Bruce uh, and he so he had Lenny Bruce

1122
01:11:27,120 --> 01:11:31,439
Speaker 2: an album of Lenny's Uh. He had a couple of

1123
01:11:31,439 --> 01:11:39,120
Speaker 2: albums with Oh the Blues collection that the Smithsonian Blues Collection,

1124
01:11:40,080 --> 01:11:42,439
Speaker 2: of which one of the songs on there was joined

1125
01:11:42,439 --> 01:11:46,040
Speaker 2: the band Hey, Lordy John, the band which we put

1126
01:11:46,080 --> 01:11:50,680
Speaker 2: on the top of Waiting for Columbus. Uh. He had

1127
01:11:50,800 --> 01:11:55,880
Speaker 2: music with with Chester Burnett, uh hold Wolf and with

1128
01:11:56,000 --> 01:12:01,120
Speaker 2: Muddy Waters. So he had He was a very collectic guy,

1129
01:12:01,160 --> 01:12:04,599
Speaker 2: and I kind of his book collection was everything from uh,

1130
01:12:05,840 --> 01:12:08,519
Speaker 2: I'm looking on my book collections that still the same thing,

1131
01:12:08,560 --> 01:12:16,080
Speaker 2: to a collection of poems by Carl Sandberg. Probably I

1132
01:12:16,080 --> 01:12:19,240
Speaker 2: think he might have had the Carl Sandberg of Lincoln

1133
01:12:19,280 --> 01:12:22,040
Speaker 2: books that he wrote as well. He had Last Exit

1134
01:12:22,080 --> 01:12:27,120
Speaker 2: to Brooklyn, which is a brutal book uh poetry by

1135
01:12:28,400 --> 01:12:32,160
Speaker 2: Alan Alan Ginsburg Howl. So rather a collect e sensive.

1136
01:12:32,160 --> 01:12:36,160
Speaker 2: The time Lowell showed up and we began conversing one

1137
01:12:36,200 --> 01:12:41,080
Speaker 2: on one, it was like Jaygovara and Fidel Castro meeting

1138
01:12:41,120 --> 01:12:43,719
Speaker 2: the first time from what I've read, where they conversed

1139
01:12:43,760 --> 01:12:46,200
Speaker 2: about everything under the sun. And that's kind of the

1140
01:12:46,200 --> 01:12:49,800
Speaker 2: way we hit it off. So by the time I

1141
01:12:50,520 --> 01:12:53,800
Speaker 2: left there, we decided, well, hey, come back in a week,

1142
01:12:54,080 --> 01:12:59,320
Speaker 2: let's let's continue this. And we did. And this is

1143
01:12:59,360 --> 01:13:04,679
Speaker 2: the detail I'm trying to tell, which is it's deep.

1144
01:13:04,720 --> 01:13:08,559
Speaker 2: I only knew Low for ten years, but it might

1145
01:13:08,560 --> 01:13:10,639
Speaker 2: as well have been one hundred years. It was. That's

1146
01:13:10,640 --> 01:13:11,720
Speaker 2: that kind of relationship.

1147
01:13:12,920 --> 01:13:15,720
Speaker 1: So you're talking, at what point do you end up

1148
01:13:15,720 --> 01:13:16,639
Speaker 1: playing some music.

1149
01:13:18,439 --> 01:13:22,879
Speaker 2: I don't think it was that long after. I utilize

1150
01:13:22,880 --> 01:13:26,360
Speaker 2: a piano like most people utilize their voice. If I

1151
01:13:26,439 --> 01:13:29,640
Speaker 2: need to illustrate something, I sit down and play it.

1152
01:13:30,680 --> 01:13:33,400
Speaker 2: You know, It's a part of my vocabulary is playing

1153
01:13:33,400 --> 01:13:36,640
Speaker 2: the piano. So he had an achistic guitar available, and

1154
01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:39,080
Speaker 2: I think we just started playing a few things. There

1155
01:13:39,120 --> 01:13:41,800
Speaker 2: might have been a little snippets of music that he had.

1156
01:13:42,360 --> 01:13:44,320
Speaker 2: As I said, I hadn't written anything out of some

1157
01:13:44,840 --> 01:13:49,360
Speaker 2: psychedelic tripping out that elliot Ingbert from The Mother's Invention,

1158
01:13:50,120 --> 01:13:52,680
Speaker 2: about a month later, came through the door with that

1159
01:13:52,920 --> 01:13:57,080
Speaker 2: particular single. Said did you play on this? I go, yeah,

1160
01:13:57,240 --> 01:13:59,240
Speaker 2: I go where'd you find? He says, in a band

1161
01:13:59,720 --> 01:14:01,360
Speaker 2: at a record store? And I got it because I

1162
01:14:01,400 --> 01:14:05,920
Speaker 2: said psychedelic music. Acid had productions from nineteen sixty six.

1163
01:14:06,800 --> 01:14:08,639
Speaker 2: This is one of the first of those kind of records.

1164
01:14:08,720 --> 01:14:10,800
Speaker 2: I go, oh. I didn't know that. In fact, I

1165
01:14:10,800 --> 01:14:12,759
Speaker 2: didn't know what any of it meant at that time.

1166
01:14:13,960 --> 01:14:17,799
Speaker 2: But shortly thereafter I did. So there we were okay.

1167
01:14:18,080 --> 01:14:23,519
Speaker 1: So you say that ultimately you auditioned for Ahmit, you

1168
01:14:23,560 --> 01:14:26,720
Speaker 1: go back to workshop, you're wood shedding. You ultimately a

1169
01:14:26,760 --> 01:14:29,559
Speaker 1: deal with Warner Brothers. How long a period of time

1170
01:14:29,720 --> 01:14:31,880
Speaker 1: is this and is there a manager involved?

1171
01:14:33,080 --> 01:14:36,719
Speaker 2: It was about a It was off the course of

1172
01:14:36,760 --> 01:14:41,240
Speaker 2: a roughly a year, maybe a little less than that. Actually,

1173
01:14:43,280 --> 01:14:46,680
Speaker 2: I just said with Russ's title in New York a

1174
01:14:46,760 --> 01:14:51,760
Speaker 2: couple of weeks ago, and Russ reminded me that we

1175
01:14:51,760 --> 01:14:55,160
Speaker 2: were going to go to Lizard Records Slow and I

1176
01:14:55,479 --> 01:15:01,800
Speaker 2: and I think Meckler Mickler was at the head of that.

1177
01:15:02,280 --> 01:15:05,840
Speaker 2: I can't remember his first name, but Russ insisted that

1178
01:15:05,960 --> 01:15:09,639
Speaker 2: we go to Warner Bros. Then at least we tag

1179
01:15:09,720 --> 01:15:12,960
Speaker 2: up at Lenny Warderker's office, which is what we did.

1180
01:15:13,640 --> 01:15:17,920
Speaker 2: And interestingly, we went out there just Laul and I.

1181
01:15:18,400 --> 01:15:20,960
Speaker 2: Lenny had a piano in his office. We sat there

1182
01:15:20,960 --> 01:15:27,000
Speaker 2: and we played anywhere from seven to nine songs, as

1183
01:15:27,080 --> 01:15:29,599
Speaker 2: kind of like going to Schwab's drug store and being

1184
01:15:29,640 --> 01:15:32,880
Speaker 2: recognized that the counter, and he asked to be in

1185
01:15:32,880 --> 01:15:35,680
Speaker 2: a movie. I mean, we didn't really have a band yet.

1186
01:15:35,840 --> 01:15:39,360
Speaker 2: Richie Hayward was with us, but we weren't in sync.

1187
01:15:39,439 --> 01:15:42,160
Speaker 2: We didn't have Roy Strada was on our band. We

1188
01:15:42,240 --> 01:15:47,920
Speaker 2: auditioned probably seventeen bass players the first six months or whatever.

1189
01:15:49,680 --> 01:15:52,320
Speaker 2: There's a lot of whom. One of them was Paul Breyer.

1190
01:15:54,400 --> 01:15:57,080
Speaker 2: We didn't play bass. He played guitar, and LOL goes, well,

1191
01:15:57,360 --> 01:16:00,639
Speaker 2: it's two less strings, go for it, you know. So

1192
01:16:00,760 --> 01:16:02,760
Speaker 2: I mean that that kind. I mean, I wish it

1193
01:16:02,800 --> 01:16:05,320
Speaker 2: was loose. The only manager we had for about a

1194
01:16:05,400 --> 01:16:11,719
Speaker 2: nana second was a business manager, uh, mister Kibbi. Martin

1195
01:16:11,800 --> 01:16:15,639
Speaker 2: Kibby wrote co wrote Dixie Chicken with Low et cetera.

1196
01:16:16,000 --> 01:16:22,000
Speaker 2: And so his dad, Martin was a good uh what

1197
01:16:22,120 --> 01:16:24,480
Speaker 2: wasn't he of that group? Richie was as a fraternity

1198
01:16:24,520 --> 01:16:27,760
Speaker 2: of man. Martin was a different group, and they are.

1199
01:16:28,920 --> 01:16:33,160
Speaker 2: His father said boys don't spend it all in one place.

1200
01:16:34,120 --> 01:16:36,800
Speaker 2: That was his advice, and I thought, you know what,

1201
01:16:36,960 --> 01:16:40,640
Speaker 2: that's very good advice. So I kind of adhere to

1202
01:16:40,680 --> 01:16:42,360
Speaker 2: that for for quite a while.

1203
01:16:43,479 --> 01:16:45,759
Speaker 1: So what were you surviving on at that point?

1204
01:16:47,040 --> 01:16:49,400
Speaker 2: Oh, you know, that's a very good question. I mean,

1205
01:16:49,439 --> 01:16:53,840
Speaker 2: I would alternately live in my parents' house. I was

1206
01:16:53,880 --> 01:16:56,759
Speaker 2: hanging out in a La Vista, which didn't bring in money,

1207
01:16:56,800 --> 01:16:59,080
Speaker 2: but at least I knew people. I could sleep a

1208
01:16:59,160 --> 01:17:02,360
Speaker 2: took place, rash on the floor or whatever. I slept

1209
01:17:02,400 --> 01:17:06,400
Speaker 2: at Lowell's for the first month or two, and then

1210
01:17:06,640 --> 01:17:10,200
Speaker 2: the la Bianca family was murdered less than a half

1211
01:17:10,320 --> 01:17:14,840
Speaker 2: mile from Lowell's house. We had just met with Terry

1212
01:17:14,880 --> 01:17:18,639
Speaker 2: Melcher a night or two before. Terry was going over

1213
01:17:18,680 --> 01:17:21,320
Speaker 2: to Europe. He said, when I get back, we'll talk

1214
01:17:21,360 --> 01:17:27,080
Speaker 2: about a record deal. Well, purportedly Manson, although this is

1215
01:17:27,160 --> 01:17:32,519
Speaker 2: up in the air too historically whether Melcher was being

1216
01:17:32,600 --> 01:17:35,240
Speaker 2: sought out or not by Manson for not giving him

1217
01:17:35,240 --> 01:17:38,040
Speaker 2: a record deal. But for a long time that was

1218
01:17:38,080 --> 01:17:42,760
Speaker 2: the story. But I wound up sleeping in Lowell's van

1219
01:17:43,960 --> 01:17:46,920
Speaker 2: because he brought in these cats with Patricia, one of

1220
01:17:46,920 --> 01:17:51,080
Speaker 2: the Price sisters, of which there were three sisters. One

1221
01:17:51,160 --> 01:17:54,080
Speaker 2: was married to Richie. Yeah, it was married to Rick Harper,

1222
01:17:54,360 --> 01:17:58,040
Speaker 2: our road manager, and Lowell was married to Patty and

1223
01:17:58,200 --> 01:18:02,160
Speaker 2: she I might add that their mother was Lula Belle,

1224
01:18:02,160 --> 01:18:05,200
Speaker 2: who sang the high part on the Lion Sleeps Tonight

1225
01:18:06,520 --> 01:18:10,600
Speaker 2: for Telstar, and she said the high part on a

1226
01:18:10,960 --> 01:18:18,160
Speaker 2: that Star trek. So that was a family the girls

1227
01:18:18,200 --> 01:18:24,120
Speaker 2: came from. And so we had our own Hollywood history

1228
01:18:24,160 --> 01:18:28,679
Speaker 2: going on there. But I eventually got out of Loll's

1229
01:18:28,680 --> 01:18:32,040
Speaker 2: place and found a place and the lady got me

1230
01:18:32,080 --> 01:18:34,479
Speaker 2: a She said, I have an acoustic piano in my house.

1231
01:18:34,800 --> 01:18:38,080
Speaker 2: It was a baby grant, and U you know, I

1232
01:18:38,160 --> 01:18:40,320
Speaker 2: was lucky in a lot of respects about of being

1233
01:18:40,360 --> 01:18:44,439
Speaker 2: able to search for something and tell people like the

1234
01:18:44,479 --> 01:18:48,200
Speaker 2: gallon the phone and warners or straight records, excuse me

1235
01:18:48,280 --> 01:18:51,599
Speaker 2: a bizarre what I did, and they go, oh, okay, yeah,

1236
01:18:51,880 --> 01:18:52,559
Speaker 2: let's try this.

1237
01:18:53,120 --> 01:18:55,320
Speaker 1: You know, did you ever have a street job?

1238
01:18:57,120 --> 01:19:00,400
Speaker 2: Uh? The only job I did other than play music

1239
01:19:00,520 --> 01:19:04,479
Speaker 2: was I was a paper boy adventure. I had the

1240
01:19:04,520 --> 01:19:11,519
Speaker 2: most customers that are route in the city, and I

1241
01:19:11,560 --> 01:19:15,720
Speaker 2: had a good aim.

1242
01:19:16,040 --> 01:19:20,759
Speaker 1: Okay, So Russ says, you got to sign with Warner Brothers.

1243
01:19:21,840 --> 01:19:24,600
Speaker 1: Tell me the experience of making that record which you

1244
01:19:24,760 --> 01:19:28,200
Speaker 1: make with Russ. And I was living on the East

1245
01:19:28,200 --> 01:19:30,120
Speaker 1: Coast at that time. It was like it didn't even

1246
01:19:30,160 --> 01:19:34,680
Speaker 1: come out. What was the experience for you? The experience

1247
01:19:34,760 --> 01:19:35,000
Speaker 1: was a.

1248
01:19:35,000 --> 01:19:40,919
Speaker 2: Nightmare, and that I thought that they were Lord, hey, Russ,

1249
01:19:41,400 --> 01:19:46,200
Speaker 2: we're very good friends. And as it turns out, they

1250
01:19:46,720 --> 01:19:52,240
Speaker 2: became disenchanted with each other over all. Manner of things

1251
01:19:52,320 --> 01:19:57,640
Speaker 2: be it, arrangements, the music there's been chosen, I'm sure,

1252
01:19:59,400 --> 01:20:04,040
Speaker 2: just everything. So that made it a nightmare because two

1253
01:20:04,040 --> 01:20:06,879
Speaker 2: guys that I thought were dear friends were now dear enemies,

1254
01:20:07,280 --> 01:20:11,000
Speaker 2: and it made it very, very uncomfortable. First album I

1255
01:20:11,040 --> 01:20:14,839
Speaker 2: had never played on, so I wasn't sure what to expect. Anyway,

1256
01:20:16,520 --> 01:20:20,040
Speaker 2: I hadn't been doing sessions at that time. I might

1257
01:20:20,080 --> 01:20:24,840
Speaker 2: have just started doing it, but I was. I was

1258
01:20:24,880 --> 01:20:29,559
Speaker 2: completely a newbie at what was involved in any of it.

1259
01:20:30,520 --> 01:20:35,800
Speaker 2: So it was a difficult record to put together. It

1260
01:20:35,880 --> 01:20:39,639
Speaker 2: didn't sell any I sawd eleven thousand copies. The first

1261
01:20:39,680 --> 01:20:45,920
Speaker 2: tour was I felt when we played New Year's even

1262
01:20:46,479 --> 01:20:48,679
Speaker 2: I don't know, wasn't New Ye's Eve New Year's Day

1263
01:20:48,800 --> 01:20:53,519
Speaker 2: in New York City at Club of Gano. We had

1264
01:20:53,840 --> 01:20:57,799
Speaker 2: two painting customers and the rest were from Warner Bros.

1265
01:20:57,960 --> 01:21:01,040
Speaker 2: That probably eight or nine people were there, and I

1266
01:21:01,200 --> 01:21:04,719
Speaker 2: was so out of it in terms of the angst

1267
01:21:04,760 --> 01:21:07,679
Speaker 2: of being where I thought, we're gonna be doing great

1268
01:21:07,720 --> 01:21:10,840
Speaker 2: because we're on started giving the you know, the record

1269
01:21:11,040 --> 01:21:14,719
Speaker 2: a good review, great review effect on Strawberry Flats, maybe

1270
01:21:14,720 --> 01:21:18,160
Speaker 2: Hamburg at midnight, and I but we're out there and

1271
01:21:18,240 --> 01:21:22,879
Speaker 2: We're like, we're no nothing, no one knows this. Uh.

1272
01:21:23,040 --> 01:21:25,880
Speaker 2: We're up in Cleveland and we're playing with the Vanilla Figs.

1273
01:21:25,920 --> 01:21:29,640
Speaker 2: The audience bring on the fudge and we're just like,

1274
01:21:29,760 --> 01:21:31,280
Speaker 2: what the hell are we doing? And we got to

1275
01:21:31,320 --> 01:21:36,639
Speaker 2: Texas and there's a couple of girls there and I went, oh,

1276
01:21:37,120 --> 01:21:42,920
Speaker 2: I get it. I think I like touring. So touring's okay,

1277
01:21:42,960 --> 01:21:45,400
Speaker 2: wait a minute, forget what I said. I'm back. I'll

1278
01:21:45,439 --> 01:21:48,280
Speaker 2: be back on the road any time you want. Uh

1279
01:21:48,600 --> 01:21:50,960
Speaker 2: So yeah, thinking like a musician, like a dope. And

1280
01:21:51,040 --> 01:21:54,639
Speaker 2: there it was, and we went in to make sale Juice,

1281
01:21:54,640 --> 01:22:00,800
Speaker 2: which was a different proposition but sold three thousand more So.

1282
01:22:01,479 --> 01:22:04,479
Speaker 2: Another way to put it is is the humility of

1283
01:22:04,520 --> 01:22:07,840
Speaker 2: it and having to be humble. At some point you

1284
01:22:07,920 --> 01:22:10,840
Speaker 2: got to face facts. But also taught me a great

1285
01:22:10,840 --> 01:22:13,840
Speaker 2: deal about Moe, Austin and Warner Brothers, which is they

1286
01:22:13,840 --> 01:22:17,280
Speaker 2: were willing to stick it out with something that was

1287
01:22:17,320 --> 01:22:21,920
Speaker 2: not viable, but we were a cachet for them as

1288
01:22:21,960 --> 01:22:24,519
Speaker 2: well to people they're trying to bring in, saying, look,

1289
01:22:24,680 --> 01:22:26,360
Speaker 2: we've got a little feet. We know they don't sell,

1290
01:22:26,439 --> 01:22:29,599
Speaker 2: but they they've got a great uh you know, their

1291
01:22:29,680 --> 01:22:32,559
Speaker 2: thought of glowing terms in terms of who they are,

1292
01:22:32,560 --> 01:22:37,559
Speaker 2: which is musicians, uh, composers, et cetera. It felt like

1293
01:22:37,600 --> 01:22:40,960
Speaker 2: a home to me with with with them and uh,

1294
01:22:42,600 --> 01:22:45,160
Speaker 2: it was so so in that regard. There were there

1295
01:22:45,160 --> 01:22:48,840
Speaker 2: were a lot of lessons available. But but but they're

1296
01:22:48,880 --> 01:22:52,600
Speaker 2: all bunched in as lessons often are with you know,

1297
01:22:53,200 --> 01:22:54,200
Speaker 2: in layers.

1298
01:22:55,120 --> 01:22:57,120
Speaker 1: Okay, I have to bring up Willing, which is on

1299
01:22:57,280 --> 01:23:00,519
Speaker 1: both the first and second albums. Do you remember Lowell

1300
01:23:00,520 --> 01:23:04,040
Speaker 1: writing it? Did you have any idea the iconic song

1301
01:23:04,120 --> 01:23:06,519
Speaker 1: would become what's your remembrance of that?

1302
01:23:07,960 --> 01:23:12,519
Speaker 2: The song Willan is I wasn't there when he wrote it.

1303
01:23:14,120 --> 01:23:17,240
Speaker 2: They put it on the record is not an afterthought.

1304
01:23:17,320 --> 01:23:21,760
Speaker 2: It was a good song. But when I heard I

1305
01:23:21,840 --> 01:23:26,719
Speaker 2: had brought down with me from Santa Maria some country

1306
01:23:26,800 --> 01:23:35,559
Speaker 2: music by you know, Conway Twitty for example. Those are cats.

1307
01:23:35,600 --> 01:23:39,439
Speaker 2: I was listening to COMG Truitty, George Jones. What Willin

1308
01:23:39,600 --> 01:23:42,640
Speaker 2: sounded like to me, Bob was was a caricature of

1309
01:23:43,080 --> 01:23:47,880
Speaker 2: not only a truck driver, but of country music. So

1310
01:23:47,920 --> 01:23:54,439
Speaker 2: the reason we re recorded it for Sailing Shoes was

1311
01:23:54,479 --> 01:23:57,559
Speaker 2: we when we got together and we had the piano

1312
01:23:57,640 --> 01:24:00,920
Speaker 2: on it, well, it took us for serious approach, the

1313
01:24:01,000 --> 01:24:06,639
Speaker 2: way he was singing the vocal. That's why that song

1314
01:24:06,760 --> 01:24:11,200
Speaker 2: is iconic, not because of that first iteration. That's my

1315
01:24:11,280 --> 01:24:12,080
Speaker 2: opinion anyway.

1316
01:24:13,720 --> 01:24:17,640
Speaker 1: Okay, in the experience of making the record with Ted Templeman.

1317
01:24:20,040 --> 01:24:23,519
Speaker 2: Well, I took a little bit of a backseat on

1318
01:24:23,560 --> 01:24:26,760
Speaker 2: that record in terms of letting Lowell, you know, like

1319
01:24:26,920 --> 01:24:30,599
Speaker 2: his statement hurt Richie and I. On the other hand,

1320
01:24:30,800 --> 01:24:33,960
Speaker 2: when we were rehearsing for it, I said that we

1321
01:24:33,960 --> 01:24:40,120
Speaker 2: were like two two tornadoes criss crossing each other in

1322
01:24:40,160 --> 01:24:45,479
Speaker 2: a room, you know. On the songs that allowed, which

1323
01:24:46,000 --> 01:24:49,320
Speaker 2: hardly any of them did. But for the lead up

1324
01:24:49,320 --> 01:24:53,639
Speaker 2: to that record, we were able to jam certain songs,

1325
01:24:53,680 --> 01:24:57,280
Speaker 2: but they weren't one note jams. They were songs with

1326
01:24:57,840 --> 01:25:01,160
Speaker 2: chord changes. But we would play him with a complete

1327
01:25:01,240 --> 01:25:06,559
Speaker 2: and underdoor abandonment, and we laughed about because, yeah, we're

1328
01:25:06,600 --> 01:25:09,639
Speaker 2: being paid to do this. It was our little our

1329
01:25:09,680 --> 01:25:15,160
Speaker 2: little clubhouse. You know. I might have driven Battle a

1330
01:25:15,200 --> 01:25:17,600
Speaker 2: little crazy, but but not all that much because we

1331
01:25:17,960 --> 01:25:20,840
Speaker 2: would have got time to play the actual tunes. We

1332
01:25:20,880 --> 01:25:23,600
Speaker 2: would we would settle down and try and adopt a

1333
01:25:23,640 --> 01:25:28,160
Speaker 2: more studio approach, which is the same, more conservative approach,

1334
01:25:29,320 --> 01:25:34,519
Speaker 2: but we we took every opportunity we could to put

1335
01:25:34,520 --> 01:25:38,360
Speaker 2: the pedal to the metal, as they say, and open

1336
01:25:38,439 --> 01:25:40,200
Speaker 2: up the car and drive it as fast as we

1337
01:25:40,240 --> 01:25:44,280
Speaker 2: could when we could. So it was a it was

1338
01:25:45,720 --> 01:25:48,400
Speaker 2: it was an experience where by the time the thing

1339
01:25:48,520 --> 01:25:52,080
Speaker 2: was over, I'll be perfectly honest with you, I don't

1340
01:25:52,120 --> 01:25:55,680
Speaker 2: remember Teddy in the studio at all. He must have

1341
01:25:55,760 --> 01:25:58,920
Speaker 2: been there. But if he was, and I apologized ted

1342
01:25:59,439 --> 01:26:01,280
Speaker 2: but I don't remember seeing him there.

1343
01:26:08,040 --> 01:26:12,360
Speaker 1: Okay, So that album comes out that also is unknown.

1344
01:26:12,439 --> 01:26:15,760
Speaker 1: When I first came to Little Feet, a track was

1345
01:26:15,800 --> 01:26:18,720
Speaker 1: included in one of the two disc sampler albums that

1346
01:26:18,800 --> 01:26:22,960
Speaker 1: Warner put out, and there was amazing buzz on the

1347
01:26:23,000 --> 01:26:26,880
Speaker 1: third album, Dixie Chicken, which I then bought. So tell

1348
01:26:26,920 --> 01:26:29,880
Speaker 1: me the transition from Sale and Choose to Dixie Chicken.

1349
01:26:31,520 --> 01:26:35,160
Speaker 2: The man transition between those two albums, Sales Choose and

1350
01:26:35,200 --> 01:26:44,160
Speaker 2: Dixie Chicken was losing Roy Strada on bass. We had

1351
01:26:44,200 --> 01:26:50,040
Speaker 2: played at Cincinnati at a gig with Captain Beefheart, and

1352
01:26:50,080 --> 01:26:55,800
Speaker 2: the sound sister broke down and Lowell was told it

1353
01:26:55,800 --> 01:26:58,800
Speaker 2: could take fifteen minutes to fix it or an hour

1354
01:26:58,800 --> 01:27:02,479
Speaker 2: and a half. We don't know what he says. I'm

1355
01:27:02,479 --> 01:27:07,680
Speaker 2: gonna go ice skating. I go ice skating. Well, I

1356
01:27:07,800 --> 01:27:10,560
Speaker 2: better go with him, so I did. I'm watching you

1357
01:27:11,760 --> 01:27:13,800
Speaker 2: do all the loops and stuff. I said, we got

1358
01:27:13,800 --> 01:27:16,200
Speaker 2: to get back to the gig. Loll come on, so

1359
01:27:17,080 --> 01:27:19,439
Speaker 2: jumping a cab. Well, I don't know who the gig is,

1360
01:27:19,479 --> 01:27:22,440
Speaker 2: and there it is, throw the money at him, running

1361
01:27:23,040 --> 01:27:26,040
Speaker 2: into the hall and they are lined up. I don't

1362
01:27:26,040 --> 01:27:28,760
Speaker 2: know the Don van Vliet, Captain Beefhart was lined up,

1363
01:27:29,280 --> 01:27:32,799
Speaker 2: but virtually everybody else was. Artie Tripp was the drummer.

1364
01:27:33,640 --> 01:27:36,719
Speaker 2: He had family in town. They'd fixed it fifteen minutes

1365
01:27:36,760 --> 01:27:38,639
Speaker 2: after we left, and we're going for over an hour.

1366
01:27:40,360 --> 01:27:43,160
Speaker 2: Y Rostrada was also in that line, and he basically

1367
01:27:43,240 --> 01:27:48,840
Speaker 2: told us to jump in jumping a lake. And by

1368
01:27:48,880 --> 01:27:53,240
Speaker 2: that time we went really okay, we will best of

1369
01:27:53,320 --> 01:27:58,880
Speaker 2: luck to you too, and we we were actually very

1370
01:27:58,880 --> 01:28:00,800
Speaker 2: pleased to get rid of him. Is He threatened to

1371
01:28:00,880 --> 01:28:04,240
Speaker 2: leave us at every juncture he could, and we'd have

1372
01:28:04,280 --> 01:28:06,080
Speaker 2: to talk him back into it and this and that.

1373
01:28:06,160 --> 01:28:10,479
Speaker 2: So I don't think Lowell did that to make anybody angry.

1374
01:28:10,479 --> 01:28:13,720
Speaker 2: It was just the way Lowell was. If Loul wanted

1375
01:28:13,720 --> 01:28:17,240
Speaker 2: to do something here to do it. But that opened

1376
01:28:17,240 --> 01:28:21,840
Speaker 2: the doors to Kenny Gradny was the first one to

1377
01:28:21,920 --> 01:28:25,800
Speaker 2: walk through the open door of the two guys that

1378
01:28:25,800 --> 01:28:33,960
Speaker 2: would come in from De Lady and Bonnie that's coming

1379
01:28:33,960 --> 01:28:36,840
Speaker 2: to the base in Congress. Paul Barrera was brought in

1380
01:28:37,040 --> 01:28:41,680
Speaker 2: earlier because Richie and I felt like Lowell needed some

1381
01:28:41,720 --> 01:28:45,120
Speaker 2: help on the guitar because he's trying to do too much.

1382
01:28:47,240 --> 01:28:51,000
Speaker 2: He needed something to help rhythmically, not literally help, but

1383
01:28:51,080 --> 01:28:53,439
Speaker 2: so he could play. He was just starting an experiment

1384
01:28:53,479 --> 01:28:57,240
Speaker 2: with slide guitar and we thought, well, he can play

1385
01:28:57,479 --> 01:29:01,000
Speaker 2: rhythm and slide, but boy, wouldn't be nice to have

1386
01:29:01,120 --> 01:29:06,600
Speaker 2: some cushion for him to react to Paul and his

1387
01:29:06,720 --> 01:29:09,800
Speaker 2: brothers they all went to Hollywood High with each other,

1388
01:29:09,840 --> 01:29:13,760
Speaker 2: so they knew each other. Ah. So that was a

1389
01:29:13,800 --> 01:29:17,360
Speaker 2: transition and a major one for us. It also gave

1390
01:29:17,920 --> 01:29:23,679
Speaker 2: another partner to write with as well. But having Kenny

1391
01:29:23,720 --> 01:29:28,519
Speaker 2: Grandy step in from Delany and Bonnie. Rick Harper knew

1392
01:29:29,120 --> 01:29:38,960
Speaker 2: the guys, what was it a studio instrument metals, Canon

1393
01:29:39,000 --> 01:29:42,320
Speaker 2: Barry there down there and they brought Kenny and he

1394
01:29:42,360 --> 01:29:45,240
Speaker 2: said he just just got out of Delaney and Bonnie.

1395
01:29:46,160 --> 01:29:49,760
Speaker 2: We had a game coming up in uh Hawaii at

1396
01:29:49,760 --> 01:29:52,439
Speaker 2: the Creator Festival. He says, I want to bring my

1397
01:29:52,520 --> 01:29:56,200
Speaker 2: partner in and his partner with Sam play. This was

1398
01:29:56,280 --> 01:30:00,400
Speaker 2: the sure. So we all go to Hawaii playing Creative Festival,

1399
01:30:00,680 --> 01:30:05,560
Speaker 2: Greater Festival for forty thousand people. Uh it was. It

1400
01:30:05,680 --> 01:30:08,880
Speaker 2: was a dream come true. And so Sam Clayton right

1401
01:30:08,920 --> 01:30:10,719
Speaker 2: then and there was like, yeah, I love the band

1402
01:30:10,760 --> 01:30:14,559
Speaker 2: and he was in. So that's that's how that transition

1403
01:30:14,680 --> 01:30:18,559
Speaker 2: took place. But also introduced which we had We had

1404
01:30:18,600 --> 01:30:22,280
Speaker 2: been familiar with New Orleans music before either of those

1405
01:30:22,320 --> 01:30:24,479
Speaker 2: guys got in the band. I mean I I came

1406
01:30:24,520 --> 01:30:28,680
Speaker 2: down to uh uh just see Lord sixty nine, knowing

1407
01:30:28,760 --> 01:30:33,799
Speaker 2: fully well who Professor long Hair was, what his influence

1408
01:30:33,880 --> 01:30:37,799
Speaker 2: would might be at some point. Uh and also uh

1409
01:30:38,160 --> 01:30:41,439
Speaker 2: Clifton Shinier and the stuff that he was doing so

1410
01:30:42,640 --> 01:30:45,840
Speaker 2: wide open was was the word. So when we got

1411
01:30:45,840 --> 01:30:48,920
Speaker 2: those two guys they knew about New Orleans music, that

1412
01:30:49,080 --> 01:30:52,120
Speaker 2: was just a handshake and a slap on the ass

1413
01:30:52,120 --> 01:30:53,400
Speaker 2: and we're we're off and running.

1414
01:30:54,760 --> 01:30:58,360
Speaker 1: Okay, Dixie Chicken comes out. The title track is now iconic,

1415
01:30:59,320 --> 01:31:02,599
Speaker 1: and it took me a few plays to get into it. Actually,

1416
01:31:02,640 --> 01:31:05,520
Speaker 1: I first started with Juliet and then Lafe Att Railroad

1417
01:31:05,920 --> 01:31:09,040
Speaker 1: and then kind of worked my way backward. What was

1418
01:31:09,680 --> 01:31:12,639
Speaker 1: going on inside? Did you feel like you were finally

1419
01:31:12,680 --> 01:31:15,800
Speaker 1: getting some momentum or same as it ever was?

1420
01:31:16,560 --> 01:31:19,960
Speaker 2: I felt we were getting momentum. That's a great questions.

1421
01:31:20,280 --> 01:31:25,519
Speaker 2: Oh I've been Yeah, we were getting momentum, and there

1422
01:31:25,600 --> 01:31:29,599
Speaker 2: wasn't any of the acts before. We're trying new things.

1423
01:31:29,600 --> 01:31:33,879
Speaker 2: I tried playing synthesizer for the first time on Fatman

1424
01:31:33,920 --> 01:31:36,439
Speaker 2: at the basketeb which I believe was also on that record.

1425
01:31:37,280 --> 01:31:42,160
Speaker 2: I tried a melotron or some additional answer which had

1426
01:31:42,240 --> 01:31:47,040
Speaker 2: drunken Mexican trumpets, which they wouldn't call them these days,

1427
01:31:47,080 --> 01:31:49,320
Speaker 2: but there they were on the That's what the sound

1428
01:31:49,400 --> 01:31:54,120
Speaker 2: was called. So I came with Bup. It was about

1429
01:31:54,120 --> 01:31:57,000
Speaker 2: East La. It was there was just a lot of

1430
01:31:57,040 --> 01:32:00,760
Speaker 2: inventiveness going on with those songs and how we were

1431
01:32:00,760 --> 01:32:06,280
Speaker 2: going to play them and attack them, and that openness

1432
01:32:07,280 --> 01:32:11,200
Speaker 2: I think on that record in particular, transformed in a

1433
01:32:11,280 --> 01:32:15,479
Speaker 2: nice handshake to that album. The interesting thing though, was

1434
01:32:15,920 --> 01:32:20,000
Speaker 2: it sold a few more copies because of the notoriety

1435
01:32:20,040 --> 01:32:23,680
Speaker 2: of the record, But some of the reviews, while glowing

1436
01:32:23,760 --> 01:32:27,760
Speaker 2: before on the first two albums, every song sounds the

1437
01:32:27,800 --> 01:32:32,200
Speaker 2: same that kind of thing. So in other words, when

1438
01:32:32,200 --> 01:32:35,280
Speaker 2: you put your head up where you're visible above ground,

1439
01:32:35,760 --> 01:32:39,080
Speaker 2: that's when people start taking shots at you, which is

1440
01:32:39,120 --> 01:32:41,639
Speaker 2: another thing I learned, and I went, Oh, I thought

1441
01:32:41,640 --> 01:32:46,720
Speaker 2: we were the darlings of the press. Hardly, but in

1442
01:32:46,800 --> 01:32:49,680
Speaker 2: general we were, and we were certainly well thought of

1443
01:32:49,760 --> 01:32:54,120
Speaker 2: in Europe and in England in particular. So a lot

1444
01:32:54,120 --> 01:32:57,720
Speaker 2: of doors were even at that time unbeknownst to us,

1445
01:32:57,720 --> 01:33:02,479
Speaker 2: but they were starting to slowly open, which would vote

1446
01:33:02,520 --> 01:33:06,240
Speaker 2: well for the future, except that we were a band,

1447
01:33:06,479 --> 01:33:11,720
Speaker 2: and like a lot of bands, and the just preperency

1448
01:33:11,760 --> 01:33:15,800
Speaker 2: between our personalities didn't let itself to always shaking hands

1449
01:33:15,840 --> 01:33:16,479
Speaker 2: with one another.

1450
01:33:17,920 --> 01:33:20,920
Speaker 1: Okay, So the album after that is the breakthrough because

1451
01:33:20,960 --> 01:33:25,519
Speaker 1: it has your song with Lianta. However, being honest, I'm

1452
01:33:25,560 --> 01:33:28,160
Speaker 1: not quite as enamored of that as I am of

1453
01:33:28,479 --> 01:33:31,479
Speaker 1: Dixie Chicken. But it does have the original version of

1454
01:33:31,520 --> 01:33:35,320
Speaker 1: Spanish Moon too, which is iconic in the double live

1455
01:33:35,360 --> 01:33:37,680
Speaker 1: album which comes out in seventy eight. So tell me

1456
01:33:37,720 --> 01:33:39,759
Speaker 1: about the experience of feats Don't Fail.

1457
01:33:39,600 --> 01:33:43,280
Speaker 2: Me Now, Peace Don't Failed Me Now followed a breakup

1458
01:33:43,320 --> 01:33:49,400
Speaker 2: of the band. There are a couple of iterations on

1459
01:33:49,479 --> 01:33:51,960
Speaker 2: how to try to get the band back together. Water

1460
01:33:52,280 --> 01:33:56,760
Speaker 2: was putting Low and myself into what Warner thought of

1461
01:33:56,800 --> 01:34:00,880
Speaker 2: as a supergroup with John Sebastian and I believe was

1462
01:34:00,880 --> 01:34:06,720
Speaker 2: Phil Everley, so one of the Everly Brothers, which we

1463
01:34:06,760 --> 01:34:09,760
Speaker 2: had a meeting about it at Mussa Frank's restaurant. I

1464
01:34:09,880 --> 01:34:13,040
Speaker 2: met Fay Ray that evening, who flirted with each and

1465
01:34:13,040 --> 01:34:15,519
Speaker 2: every one of us. I reminded John Sebastian of that

1466
01:34:16,080 --> 01:34:18,559
Speaker 2: a few years ago. He goes, I don't remember that.

1467
01:34:18,680 --> 01:34:22,000
Speaker 2: I said, well, yep, she was there, not at our meeting,

1468
01:34:22,080 --> 01:34:24,639
Speaker 2: but at the at the main bar. As you walk

1469
01:34:24,720 --> 01:34:27,600
Speaker 2: in through the through the doors, particularly come through the

1470
01:34:27,920 --> 01:34:32,000
Speaker 2: back door. There's two entrances into the dining room. One

1471
01:34:32,080 --> 01:34:36,200
Speaker 2: is you take take a right, the other one you

1472
01:34:36,240 --> 01:34:39,200
Speaker 2: take a left, and that's where they film most things

1473
01:34:39,200 --> 01:34:42,320
Speaker 2: for movies, is when you turn left and were the

1474
01:34:42,520 --> 01:34:47,160
Speaker 2: formal part of the dining room. Uh. Phil's wife said,

1475
01:34:47,200 --> 01:34:49,640
Speaker 2: you're not going to do it, it's ridiculous, and we

1476
01:34:49,720 --> 01:34:53,960
Speaker 2: did so. Then Bob Gavala stepped in. He says, there's

1477
01:34:53,960 --> 01:34:58,160
Speaker 2: a guy, Steve Boone from the Love and Spoonful, which

1478
01:34:58,200 --> 01:35:02,320
Speaker 2: is the band that John Sebastian he's got a studio

1479
01:35:02,320 --> 01:35:06,120
Speaker 2: in Baltimore, Maryland. Mike, we take a shot at recording there.

1480
01:35:07,160 --> 01:35:10,240
Speaker 2: You'll you'll live back there. You'll have free access to

1481
01:35:10,280 --> 01:35:14,599
Speaker 2: this studio, do anything you want. I bought a lot

1482
01:35:14,640 --> 01:35:17,600
Speaker 2: of great things happened that I met Robert Palmer, I

1483
01:35:17,720 --> 01:35:20,880
Speaker 2: met uh through Emmy Lou Harris, my first wife, fran

1484
01:35:21,720 --> 01:35:26,479
Speaker 2: fran Tate. George Masterberg came in from Barclay Studios in

1485
01:35:26,600 --> 01:35:31,160
Speaker 2: Paris to work with us, So we knew each other

1486
01:35:32,520 --> 01:35:35,439
Speaker 2: or met each other at that time. And then uh

1487
01:35:36,200 --> 01:35:40,360
Speaker 2: our George Lowell's daughter was born at that time. So

1488
01:35:40,760 --> 01:35:43,879
Speaker 2: a lot of great things were taking place for us,

1489
01:35:44,720 --> 01:35:49,080
Speaker 2: and it really felt like a reunion of of of

1490
01:35:49,080 --> 01:35:53,880
Speaker 2: of good magnitude and and UH we were able to

1491
01:35:53,920 --> 01:35:56,120
Speaker 2: pour a lot of good energy into it, and we've

1492
01:35:56,120 --> 01:35:59,360
Speaker 2: recorded several different records. We also became quite famous in

1493
01:35:59,520 --> 01:36:03,240
Speaker 2: Washington as a result of living back there. So there

1494
01:36:03,320 --> 01:36:07,320
Speaker 2: was a perfect storm of good things happening for us.

1495
01:36:07,760 --> 01:36:10,120
Speaker 1: Tell me about the being breaking up before.

1496
01:36:09,800 --> 01:36:14,120
Speaker 2: That, I think what was going on it was it

1497
01:36:14,160 --> 01:36:19,880
Speaker 2: was this was primarily financial in regard. We just couldn't

1498
01:36:20,840 --> 01:36:23,599
Speaker 2: We're having a tough time making ends meet. It created

1499
01:36:23,680 --> 01:36:27,080
Speaker 2: attention what you would do in any kind of marriage,

1500
01:36:27,640 --> 01:36:29,960
Speaker 2: and I'm certainly being in a band as a form

1501
01:36:30,000 --> 01:36:37,280
Speaker 2: of marriage. And Bob Cavallo came to one of our band,

1502
01:36:37,760 --> 01:36:40,439
Speaker 2: like the night before we go on tour. He came in.

1503
01:36:40,520 --> 01:36:43,599
Speaker 2: He was like laughing and kind of you know, jovial

1504
01:36:43,720 --> 01:36:46,040
Speaker 2: about a few things, and he said, I got I

1505
01:36:46,040 --> 01:36:49,200
Speaker 2: got some news for you. We just canceled the tour.

1506
01:36:49,720 --> 01:36:51,720
Speaker 2: We don't have enough money to get out there and

1507
01:36:51,760 --> 01:36:56,080
Speaker 2: do this, and we're like kind of stune. And I

1508
01:36:56,120 --> 01:36:59,120
Speaker 2: walked up to him, I said, well, why we why

1509
01:36:59,160 --> 01:37:04,200
Speaker 2: we like? Why we laughing when you came in? He says.

1510
01:37:04,320 --> 01:37:05,960
Speaker 2: I was so upset about it. I didn't know what

1511
01:37:05,960 --> 01:37:10,400
Speaker 2: else to do. I said, God, look, you know a

1512
01:37:10,439 --> 01:37:12,720
Speaker 2: real human response, and I went, you know what, I

1513
01:37:13,080 --> 01:37:17,599
Speaker 2: completely get it. I always thought Bob was a wonderful,

1514
01:37:17,920 --> 01:37:24,160
Speaker 2: wonderful guy on that level. I trusted him. I said, okay, fine, Well,

1515
01:37:26,160 --> 01:37:29,800
Speaker 2: but the decision was made to try the superman. It

1516
01:37:29,920 --> 01:37:32,240
Speaker 2: was also what was else which they wouldn't have helped

1517
01:37:32,320 --> 01:37:36,600
Speaker 2: Richie or Kenny or Sam or anybody, at least not initially.

1518
01:37:40,280 --> 01:37:43,040
Speaker 2: But then Lowell also there was another thing that he

1519
01:37:43,240 --> 01:37:49,200
Speaker 2: did that I Beleeve proceeded going back to work in

1520
01:37:49,240 --> 01:37:53,759
Speaker 2: Maryland and record there, and that was a Robert Palmer record,

1521
01:37:54,080 --> 01:37:57,479
Speaker 2: sneaking Sally through the alley, and a lot of people

1522
01:37:57,560 --> 01:38:01,680
Speaker 2: thought it was us. It was the Meters, we're playing it.

1523
01:38:01,800 --> 01:38:03,720
Speaker 2: Or if you're going to get confused with a band,

1524
01:38:04,800 --> 01:38:07,240
Speaker 2: you can choose a lot worse bands than the Meters

1525
01:38:07,280 --> 01:38:10,680
Speaker 2: to get confused with. So uh and by the way,

1526
01:38:10,720 --> 01:38:12,040
Speaker 2: we got to sit in with those guys, you know,

1527
01:38:12,080 --> 01:38:17,120
Speaker 2: the Neville Brothers, et cetera. Uh, there's there's a there's.

1528
01:38:18,040 --> 01:38:20,280
Speaker 2: I had one guy at one point was going, well,

1529
01:38:20,320 --> 01:38:22,360
Speaker 2: what are you playing? He didn't say it to me directly,

1530
01:38:22,520 --> 01:38:25,759
Speaker 2: came in through another person. What are you doing playing

1531
01:38:25,840 --> 01:38:30,680
Speaker 2: New Orleans music? You're not from there? I said, Well,

1532
01:38:30,720 --> 01:38:34,559
Speaker 2: tell your friend that I played Mozart. I'm not from

1533
01:38:34,600 --> 01:38:38,880
Speaker 2: vienn Austria. I'm not from Germany. I play Bach and Beethoven.

1534
01:38:39,200 --> 01:38:41,920
Speaker 2: Is that okay with him? Oh? And my parents were

1535
01:38:41,960 --> 01:38:45,840
Speaker 2: married and you were also maybe through osmosis, I got

1536
01:38:45,840 --> 01:38:48,760
Speaker 2: some of the the juju. I don't know. You tell

1537
01:38:48,800 --> 01:38:55,000
Speaker 2: me there against that competitive thing. You know. I'm not

1538
01:38:55,040 --> 01:38:58,360
Speaker 2: a purist when it comes to music. I I uh,

1539
01:38:58,680 --> 01:39:01,720
Speaker 2: and I adore some people that are. Don Grolnik was

1540
01:39:01,760 --> 01:39:05,960
Speaker 2: a purist, played piano with with James Tader with Lynn

1541
01:39:06,040 --> 01:39:09,880
Speaker 2: Ron's stat beautiful jazz guy. You and I discussed this

1542
01:39:10,040 --> 01:39:13,160
Speaker 2: a few times. His approach was, if this is the

1543
01:39:13,160 --> 01:39:14,960
Speaker 2: way Bill Evans did it, then I'm gonna play it

1544
01:39:15,000 --> 01:39:16,880
Speaker 2: like that. You know that that kind of thing. Don

1545
01:39:16,920 --> 01:39:20,439
Speaker 2: had the chops. Excuse me to play it any way

1546
01:39:20,479 --> 01:39:25,599
Speaker 2: he wanted. I said, I don't bastardize it on purpose, Don,

1547
01:39:25,800 --> 01:39:29,479
Speaker 2: I just what I'm doing is I'm taken segments of

1548
01:39:29,600 --> 01:39:34,240
Speaker 2: things and appropriating it to music and to my writing

1549
01:39:34,280 --> 01:39:36,639
Speaker 2: and to my sense of what ought to be there,

1550
01:39:36,680 --> 01:39:39,960
Speaker 2: not as a an affront to anything.

1551
01:39:41,320 --> 01:39:46,000
Speaker 1: Okay. So then we have the Last Record album, which

1552
01:39:46,040 --> 01:39:50,559
Speaker 1: for me is a return to form, and you're you're

1553
01:39:50,600 --> 01:39:53,400
Speaker 1: writing more on that album. So what's going on there?

1554
01:39:55,040 --> 01:40:00,400
Speaker 2: Well, well, I had a pretty substantial battle. We're going

1555
01:40:00,479 --> 01:40:04,000
Speaker 2: into make No the last record. Excuse me, I'm dyving

1556
01:40:04,080 --> 01:40:07,840
Speaker 2: my head a little too too early. Uh. That that

1557
01:40:07,960 --> 01:40:10,160
Speaker 2: album was made in Hollywood, which is why we have

1558
01:40:10,240 --> 01:40:17,280
Speaker 2: that Hollywood drawing a Neon Park so beautifully hated. It

1559
01:40:17,360 --> 01:40:19,519
Speaker 2: was not one of my favorite records, although it had

1560
01:40:19,560 --> 01:40:22,559
Speaker 2: some great songs on it, but I just felt it

1561
01:40:22,600 --> 01:40:27,960
Speaker 2: was very stiff, uh, disjointed even, and that could have

1562
01:40:28,000 --> 01:40:30,559
Speaker 2: been just for me. You know. Perspective is a lot

1563
01:40:31,080 --> 01:40:33,800
Speaker 2: that rolls into us. We've we've been accused through the years,

1564
01:40:33,800 --> 01:40:36,680
Speaker 2: and I think rightfully so that our records aren't as

1565
01:40:36,680 --> 01:40:39,080
Speaker 2: good as the way we play live. And I think

1566
01:40:39,200 --> 01:40:42,000
Speaker 2: just you know, it's subjective, but for me, I think

1567
01:40:42,000 --> 01:40:44,760
Speaker 2: there's some truth in that. This is one of those

1568
01:40:44,800 --> 01:40:51,080
Speaker 2: albums that I thought was h let me just put

1569
01:40:51,120 --> 01:40:53,720
Speaker 2: it this way. We want the German Album of the

1570
01:40:53,960 --> 01:40:57,040
Speaker 2: Year of the Year award. And when I heard that

1571
01:40:57,080 --> 01:41:00,840
Speaker 2: we'd want I won that award. A couple of people

1572
01:41:00,880 --> 01:41:03,920
Speaker 2: in the band, I said, I told you it was

1573
01:41:04,000 --> 01:41:06,800
Speaker 2: Germanic and stiff, and that's that's the result of all that,

1574
01:41:07,520 --> 01:41:10,360
Speaker 2: and they went, there you go. So it was one

1575
01:41:10,360 --> 01:41:12,519
Speaker 2: of those I mean, it's it's it's silly to say it,

1576
01:41:12,560 --> 01:41:14,840
Speaker 2: but it was. It's kind of the way I felt

1577
01:41:14,840 --> 01:41:18,080
Speaker 2: about that album. And I don't I rarely listened to

1578
01:41:18,120 --> 01:41:22,360
Speaker 2: our records. I do on occasion, uh, and I actually

1579
01:41:22,360 --> 01:41:24,160
Speaker 2: sound pretty good. I gotta I gotta admit.

1580
01:41:24,680 --> 01:41:29,080
Speaker 1: Okay. So the next album, Time Loves a Hero, I

1581
01:41:29,160 --> 01:41:33,120
Speaker 1: bought it. It seemed like something completely different, and Lowell

1582
01:41:33,240 --> 01:41:37,120
Speaker 1: was barely on it saw that tour. What was going

1583
01:41:37,160 --> 01:41:41,120
Speaker 1: on there Lowell was Uh.

1584
01:41:41,800 --> 01:41:44,519
Speaker 2: I think that the tailspin Lowell was going through was

1585
01:41:44,560 --> 01:41:50,680
Speaker 2: healthy health wise. Uh he we not he we We

1586
01:41:50,800 --> 01:41:55,439
Speaker 2: made it difficult to work with one another. In general,

1587
01:41:56,520 --> 01:41:59,000
Speaker 2: he would be there, he wouldn't be there. I kind

1588
01:41:59,000 --> 01:42:01,559
Speaker 2: of like what Jerry Garcia doing with The Grateful Dead.

1589
01:42:02,360 --> 01:42:05,720
Speaker 2: He would disappear at times, and then when he shop you,

1590
01:42:05,760 --> 01:42:09,080
Speaker 2: oh yeah, hey Loel, Hey Jerry, welcome back. You know

1591
01:42:09,120 --> 01:42:12,880
Speaker 2: that kind of thing. But we had a very real

1592
01:42:13,240 --> 01:42:17,240
Speaker 2: proposition of not being able to make an album with

1593
01:42:17,320 --> 01:42:20,120
Speaker 2: him or without him. And Paul and I got together

1594
01:42:20,120 --> 01:42:23,840
Speaker 2: and I thought, look, I don't know what to do here,

1595
01:42:23,840 --> 01:42:25,639
Speaker 2: but we had to go. Let's let's talk to Ted

1596
01:42:25,680 --> 01:42:29,280
Speaker 2: teentleman about doing a recordless playing the songs we have.

1597
01:42:29,360 --> 01:42:32,120
Speaker 2: See if he'll do a record with Lowell in there.

1598
01:42:32,200 --> 01:42:35,880
Speaker 2: But maybe Lowell is not as present as he should be.

1599
01:42:35,960 --> 01:42:39,680
Speaker 2: Let's let Lowell figure out who he is. I know

1600
01:42:39,760 --> 01:42:42,760
Speaker 2: he wants to do a solo record. Let's let him

1601
01:42:42,800 --> 01:42:46,040
Speaker 2: sort some of that out. See if he's amenable to

1602
01:42:46,120 --> 01:42:49,160
Speaker 2: letting us take more of a stand in this. And

1603
01:42:49,160 --> 01:42:49,840
Speaker 2: that's what we did.

1604
01:42:52,520 --> 01:42:58,639
Speaker 1: Okay, and then Lowell ultimately does make a solo album

1605
01:42:58,640 --> 01:43:03,679
Speaker 1: which comes out two years leader and was the band

1606
01:43:03,840 --> 01:43:06,240
Speaker 1: really together at that point?

1607
01:43:07,120 --> 01:43:12,439
Speaker 2: It was? Paul and I took a lot of flak

1608
01:43:12,600 --> 01:43:17,400
Speaker 2: for having taken over the band from people on the outside,

1609
01:43:17,520 --> 01:43:21,320
Speaker 2: and I later when it when I was able to

1610
01:43:21,400 --> 01:43:24,920
Speaker 2: articulate it in this fashion, I said, look, let me

1611
01:43:24,960 --> 01:43:27,360
Speaker 2: explain something to you. Tell me if you think I'm

1612
01:43:27,400 --> 01:43:30,639
Speaker 2: a right or wrong or I'm just whatever you think,

1613
01:43:31,560 --> 01:43:35,000
Speaker 2: here are the facts. We didn't. It was fine that

1614
01:43:35,040 --> 01:43:37,920
Speaker 2: Lowell made a solo record, but if we were keeping

1615
01:43:38,000 --> 01:43:41,720
Speaker 2: Lowell from writing music for Little Feet, why did why

1616
01:43:41,720 --> 01:43:45,439
Speaker 2: are there hey, why are there so few Lowell George's

1617
01:43:46,080 --> 01:43:49,360
Speaker 2: songs on his solo record? And why did it take

1618
01:43:49,360 --> 01:43:54,960
Speaker 2: in five years to make it? So, I said, that's

1619
01:43:55,000 --> 01:43:58,640
Speaker 2: a good question to ask yourself. He was in a

1620
01:43:58,680 --> 01:44:01,519
Speaker 2: tailspin of his own making not ours. This is what

1621
01:44:01,600 --> 01:44:04,000
Speaker 2: I was getting at, and it didn't to me, It

1622
01:44:04,000 --> 01:44:11,759
Speaker 2: didn't ever detegrate his talent. Uh Uh. I thought Richie

1623
01:44:11,800 --> 01:44:16,640
Speaker 2: Hayward and Prop and Paul BarreR were probably going to

1624
01:44:16,680 --> 01:44:20,160
Speaker 2: be the first guys to uh, you know, leave this world.

1625
01:44:21,160 --> 01:44:24,080
Speaker 2: That's the right they were. They were gone. Uh So

1626
01:44:25,720 --> 01:44:27,920
Speaker 2: discuss the show. Were you know, we don't know what's

1627
01:44:27,960 --> 01:44:28,400
Speaker 2: going to happen.

1628
01:44:29,320 --> 01:44:32,080
Speaker 1: Tell me a little bit more about where Lowell was

1629
01:44:32,120 --> 01:44:35,639
Speaker 1: at this tailspin. Was purely drugs or what was going on.

1630
01:44:36,560 --> 01:44:40,520
Speaker 2: I think a lot of it was was was uh lifestyle,

1631
01:44:40,720 --> 01:44:45,400
Speaker 2: but it was also just trying to figure out uh

1632
01:44:47,120 --> 01:44:49,400
Speaker 2: I think he was he was battling some health issues.

1633
01:44:50,479 --> 01:44:53,439
Speaker 2: He was overweighted obviously, and uh so that so that

1634
01:44:53,560 --> 01:44:55,200
Speaker 2: was coming into play a little bit. It had to be.

1635
01:44:56,600 --> 01:45:00,400
Speaker 2: He had trouble maintaining his his vocals out on the road.

1636
01:45:01,120 --> 01:45:02,960
Speaker 2: We had to play a couple of shows with with

1637
01:45:03,040 --> 01:45:06,000
Speaker 2: him there, but he couldn't sing. Uh, that's that's just

1638
01:45:06,320 --> 01:45:08,960
Speaker 2: you know, that's just losing your voice, that kind of thing.

1639
01:45:10,120 --> 01:45:13,360
Speaker 2: But I think things were, you know, because I wasn't

1640
01:45:13,360 --> 01:45:17,400
Speaker 2: inside his head. I just thought that that he was

1641
01:45:17,960 --> 01:45:19,960
Speaker 2: he was disturbed by a lot of what he was

1642
01:45:19,960 --> 01:45:27,200
Speaker 2: going through internally, and that these things because the pressure

1643
01:45:27,280 --> 01:45:30,280
Speaker 2: of being thought of as a leader of the group,

1644
01:45:33,479 --> 01:45:36,439
Speaker 2: and even with a guy like myself that took over

1645
01:45:36,479 --> 01:45:39,479
Speaker 2: the reins from time to time, like when we did

1646
01:45:39,560 --> 01:45:45,360
Speaker 2: the record of the TV show uh bit I Special.

1647
01:45:48,720 --> 01:45:53,160
Speaker 2: Bob was the guy that produced that show. Anyway, the

1648
01:45:53,160 --> 01:45:55,160
Speaker 2: producer of that show got touched with me. He said,

1649
01:45:55,200 --> 01:45:57,240
Speaker 2: did you would you put a list of people together

1650
01:45:57,280 --> 01:46:00,240
Speaker 2: for us to do the show with? I said, but

1651
01:46:00,280 --> 01:46:02,880
Speaker 2: why don't you have loll to it? He says, because

1652
01:46:02,920 --> 01:46:08,639
Speaker 2: you want to make sure it gets done. Uh airlic

1653
01:46:08,720 --> 01:46:14,559
Speaker 2: I think air one anyway, Bob Airlock? Uh so, ken

1654
01:46:14,600 --> 01:46:17,200
Speaker 2: Airlinck you mean can't yeah, ken Ic excuse me, there's

1655
01:46:17,240 --> 01:46:19,839
Speaker 2: a kN airlic So I brought into the weather report.

1656
01:46:20,000 --> 01:46:23,720
Speaker 2: I brought in you know, the Bonnie whomever was on

1657
01:46:24,360 --> 01:46:29,200
Speaker 2: stage with us take let Larson and uh emmy little

1658
01:46:29,200 --> 01:46:34,280
Speaker 2: Harris might have been there too, I can't remember, but yeah,

1659
01:46:34,280 --> 01:46:37,720
Speaker 2: there there there was an increasingly more of of that

1660
01:46:37,800 --> 01:46:42,280
Speaker 2: where Lode was burying, kind of what Jerry Garcia was

1661
01:46:42,320 --> 01:46:46,200
Speaker 2: going through, where a lot of the emphasis was from

1662
01:46:46,280 --> 01:46:49,719
Speaker 2: the press was on both Law with Little Feet Jerry

1663
01:46:49,760 --> 01:46:54,000
Speaker 2: with with the Grateful Dead. But neither one of them

1664
01:46:54,040 --> 01:46:58,160
Speaker 2: really wanted the mantle of being a leader. They didn't

1665
01:46:58,200 --> 01:47:01,599
Speaker 2: want the pressure of it. They they wanted to be

1666
01:47:02,880 --> 01:47:07,920
Speaker 2: the artists play compose. Give him room for that, not

1667
01:47:08,080 --> 01:47:10,559
Speaker 2: like the king that sits there every day and has

1668
01:47:10,600 --> 01:47:14,240
Speaker 2: to go through. Should I do my launch to be

1669
01:47:14,280 --> 01:47:18,000
Speaker 2: with this kind of detergent You're you're your worship or this.

1670
01:47:18,520 --> 01:47:21,080
Speaker 2: I mean, it was just no, I want to be

1671
01:47:21,200 --> 01:47:24,720
Speaker 2: left alone. I want to do what I do. Play

1672
01:47:24,800 --> 01:47:26,560
Speaker 2: some of your songs, just do some of mine. It

1673
01:47:26,720 --> 01:47:30,920
Speaker 2: just was just convoluted, and the side of the times

1674
01:47:31,160 --> 01:47:34,960
Speaker 2: was the drug thing hovering out there, which was never

1675
01:47:36,439 --> 01:47:40,240
Speaker 2: that far away from from what we were all going

1676
01:47:40,320 --> 01:47:42,000
Speaker 2: through or what's up we're going through. I should say

1677
01:47:42,040 --> 01:47:46,240
Speaker 2: I'd give it up on it a few years before. Uh.

1678
01:47:47,320 --> 01:47:50,720
Speaker 2: It made it harder, harder to uh, to deal with

1679
01:47:50,800 --> 01:47:53,439
Speaker 2: one another, to deal with life. Plus we're young guys.

1680
01:47:53,680 --> 01:47:57,960
Speaker 1: So so Lowell is on the road promoting his solo album,

1681
01:47:58,680 --> 01:48:02,720
Speaker 1: He Dies. Was that a shock to you or did

1682
01:48:02,800 --> 01:48:05,160
Speaker 1: you expect it? Or did you figure if it wasn't

1683
01:48:05,200 --> 01:48:06,880
Speaker 1: going to be this, it was going to be something else.

1684
01:48:08,640 --> 01:48:10,160
Speaker 2: I thought it was. It was a shock to me,

1685
01:48:10,680 --> 01:48:15,519
Speaker 2: and then in the U in my ability to come

1686
01:48:15,560 --> 01:48:17,760
Speaker 2: to grips with it, it's like when you're in a

1687
01:48:17,880 --> 01:48:20,479
Speaker 2: car accident or getting close to a car accident. And

1688
01:48:21,160 --> 01:48:23,200
Speaker 2: at least for me, the few times I've been close

1689
01:48:23,240 --> 01:48:27,760
Speaker 2: to something like that, my mind is like kind of clear,

1690
01:48:28,080 --> 01:48:31,320
Speaker 2: it doesn't like fog up. I'm like, I've got this

1691
01:48:31,439 --> 01:48:32,960
Speaker 2: way to do this. Or this way to do it.

1692
01:48:33,040 --> 01:48:34,920
Speaker 2: I'm going to do one or two and make a

1693
01:48:35,000 --> 01:48:37,680
Speaker 2: decision to do it later. It hit you like a

1694
01:48:37,760 --> 01:48:41,240
Speaker 2: ton of breakfast to what actually happened. So what hit

1695
01:48:41,320 --> 01:48:44,479
Speaker 2: me initially was a shock of his death, but I'd

1696
01:48:44,560 --> 01:48:49,639
Speaker 2: rather quickly elevated to does he have insurance for his family?

1697
01:48:51,200 --> 01:48:53,600
Speaker 2: I don't think he did, So I said, we're going

1698
01:48:53,640 --> 01:48:57,639
Speaker 2: to put a concert on at the Forum, which we did,

1699
01:48:58,240 --> 01:49:01,320
Speaker 2: and we raised money for his family, and we tried

1700
01:49:01,360 --> 01:49:03,400
Speaker 2: to put and we did put Lawell in good light,

1701
01:49:03,479 --> 01:49:06,680
Speaker 2: because that's what we should have done. I think the

1702
01:49:06,760 --> 01:49:13,759
Speaker 2: story of loll George is one that not unlike Beatnick

1703
01:49:13,840 --> 01:49:17,559
Speaker 2: poetry if you just talk about his death and whatever

1704
01:49:17,720 --> 01:49:20,559
Speaker 2: cost is, because there's a lot of stories surrounding that too.

1705
01:49:21,280 --> 01:49:24,080
Speaker 2: But I kind of look at it like Beatnick poetry.

1706
01:49:24,120 --> 01:49:26,479
Speaker 2: You throw Jimmy Hendrick's name into the hat, along with

1707
01:49:26,560 --> 01:49:35,160
Speaker 2: Jim Morrison, Garcia, Brian Jones, Janis Joplin, do you name him?

1708
01:49:36,040 --> 01:49:41,640
Speaker 2: And John Beluci. They all have very similar avenues in

1709
01:49:41,760 --> 01:49:46,960
Speaker 2: which they went out, and there's discrepancies too on how

1710
01:49:47,040 --> 01:49:50,960
Speaker 2: they died. The fact is it was a culture and

1711
01:49:51,040 --> 01:49:54,759
Speaker 2: an overload system that brought him to that early demise

1712
01:49:56,520 --> 01:50:01,360
Speaker 2: in their hearts were the things that gave out. So

1713
01:50:02,479 --> 01:50:06,080
Speaker 2: I don't and what I'm writing, what I'm talking about now,

1714
01:50:07,080 --> 01:50:11,840
Speaker 2: my focus is more on Yeah, we'll passed away. He

1715
01:50:12,000 --> 01:50:17,400
Speaker 2: left this legacy with us. We're intertwined with one another.

1716
01:50:19,560 --> 01:50:24,320
Speaker 2: I was quoted and People Magazine is saying greater People Magazine,

1717
01:50:24,360 --> 01:50:32,200
Speaker 2: not the you know, foreign press as saying that without Lowl,

1718
01:50:32,240 --> 01:50:35,639
Speaker 2: Georgia would not be Little Feet. And it was reminded

1719
01:50:35,720 --> 01:50:38,040
Speaker 2: of that when we put out Let It Roll, And

1720
01:50:38,120 --> 01:50:40,400
Speaker 2: I said, you know, I did say that, and that's

1721
01:50:40,400 --> 01:50:43,719
Speaker 2: the way I felt at that time, and I morphed

1722
01:50:44,120 --> 01:50:47,840
Speaker 2: and gravitated to a different way of thinking about it, which,

1723
01:50:48,920 --> 01:50:52,439
Speaker 2: ironically enough, was more to the way low and I

1724
01:50:52,520 --> 01:50:54,840
Speaker 2: thought about the band when we put it together in

1725
01:50:54,920 --> 01:50:58,400
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty nine, which it should be an open vessel

1726
01:50:59,080 --> 01:51:02,519
Speaker 2: as to who's in it and when, what material should

1727
01:51:02,520 --> 01:51:06,760
Speaker 2: be included and how? And does it sound like Little

1728
01:51:06,800 --> 01:51:09,080
Speaker 2: Feet at the end of the day, if we play

1729
01:51:09,120 --> 01:51:12,720
Speaker 2: Happy Birthday, does it still sound like Little Feet? You know?

1730
01:51:12,840 --> 01:51:14,559
Speaker 2: But if we write a great song, does it sound

1731
01:51:14,640 --> 01:51:18,680
Speaker 2: like Little Feet? I think the answer was debatable for

1732
01:51:18,760 --> 01:51:22,840
Speaker 2: a lot of people. Some ardis and said without Lowell.

1733
01:51:23,560 --> 01:51:27,120
Speaker 2: It's not Little Feet without Richie, it's not Little Feet

1734
01:51:27,400 --> 01:51:30,559
Speaker 2: without Paul Breer, it's not Little Feet and a lot

1735
01:51:30,640 --> 01:51:32,320
Speaker 2: of other people, and I mean a lot more go.

1736
01:51:32,920 --> 01:51:38,240
Speaker 2: You know what just ties me to something that reminds

1737
01:51:38,280 --> 01:51:40,679
Speaker 2: me of what was great about you guys, and guess

1738
01:51:40,760 --> 01:51:42,880
Speaker 2: what it still is. Because you can't walk up on

1739
01:51:43,000 --> 01:51:47,000
Speaker 2: that stage, Bob and play in full people. You either

1740
01:51:47,800 --> 01:51:50,560
Speaker 2: have them by the throat and they come along with

1741
01:51:50,760 --> 01:51:54,680
Speaker 2: you or you're sitting there going we aren't what we

1742
01:51:54,800 --> 01:51:57,080
Speaker 2: thought we were, which brings you back to the very

1743
01:51:57,120 --> 01:51:59,519
Speaker 2: first album with Little Feet, thinking we were going to

1744
01:51:59,560 --> 01:52:00,160
Speaker 2: be the Beatles.

1745
01:52:01,880 --> 01:52:08,360
Speaker 1: Okay, So in these ensuing decades where you've continued with

1746
01:52:08,439 --> 01:52:12,200
Speaker 1: Little feed Little Feeds, membership has morphed, you've worked with

1747
01:52:12,280 --> 01:52:15,800
Speaker 1: all these other artists. Has there been any plane or

1748
01:52:15,880 --> 01:52:18,479
Speaker 1: you're just bumping into stuff? How did this all play out?

1749
01:52:20,560 --> 01:52:23,360
Speaker 2: Well? There is a there is a sense of jumping

1750
01:52:23,439 --> 01:52:26,680
Speaker 2: from log to log just in terms of, hey, what

1751
01:52:26,800 --> 01:52:30,760
Speaker 2: am I gonna do? Well? Little Feet's not there. Oh,

1752
01:52:32,080 --> 01:52:34,880
Speaker 2: I'm gonna play with Linnerasset for for a year, a

1753
01:52:35,000 --> 01:52:36,720
Speaker 2: year and a half, for a year or less. I'm

1754
01:52:36,720 --> 01:52:39,840
Speaker 2: playing with James Taylor. That goes on for six years. Now,

1755
01:52:39,880 --> 01:52:42,840
Speaker 2: I'm playing with Bob Seeger. Then I say I want

1756
01:52:42,880 --> 01:52:46,000
Speaker 2: to put Little Feet back together, which puts not at wrong.

1757
01:52:47,280 --> 01:52:49,960
Speaker 2: That's life in general. You know, we we we can

1758
01:52:50,040 --> 01:52:53,679
Speaker 2: only plan so far the best plans of men et cetera.

1759
01:52:55,640 --> 01:52:58,280
Speaker 2: But but having the ability, I mean at the age

1760
01:52:58,360 --> 01:53:02,080
Speaker 2: I am now of. I mean, honestly, if I didn't

1761
01:53:02,720 --> 01:53:06,760
Speaker 2: or couldn't play with Little Feet anymore, I think I

1762
01:53:07,840 --> 01:53:11,200
Speaker 2: would probably enjoy it that much. But could I do it? Yeah,

1763
01:53:12,240 --> 01:53:17,120
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not financially hanging onto a thread necessarily,

1764
01:53:17,240 --> 01:53:21,120
Speaker 2: but it's I love playing music as much more than

1765
01:53:21,160 --> 01:53:24,040
Speaker 2: I ever have in life, and I don't want to

1766
01:53:24,120 --> 01:53:29,760
Speaker 2: mislabel something that that isn't something. But as I said,

1767
01:53:29,760 --> 01:53:33,880
Speaker 2: when you walk out on stage, uh and you look

1768
01:53:33,920 --> 01:53:37,280
Speaker 2: into people's eyes out there and judge from the looks

1769
01:53:37,320 --> 01:53:40,080
Speaker 2: on their faces as to whether you're connecting with them.

1770
01:53:41,160 --> 01:53:43,439
Speaker 2: Little Feet is one of those bands that people either

1771
01:53:43,520 --> 01:53:46,600
Speaker 2: go who or they go oh my god, the the

1772
01:53:47,040 --> 01:53:51,320
Speaker 2: little feet that kind of that's special to them they have.

1773
01:53:51,880 --> 01:53:53,680
Speaker 2: They don't care. They're like the grateful dead on you

1774
01:53:53,800 --> 01:53:56,679
Speaker 2: is if if Jerry Garcia looks sideways at Bobby Ware

1775
01:53:56,720 --> 01:53:58,960
Speaker 2: or Vice versa. They were the first to bring it

1776
01:53:59,080 --> 01:54:02,320
Speaker 2: up right, Uh, within little feet. It's the same way,

1777
01:54:02,479 --> 01:54:05,680
Speaker 2: if not, everybody that we've we've played our music for

1778
01:54:05,960 --> 01:54:08,760
Speaker 2: has liked the iteration of the band that we have.

1779
01:54:09,720 --> 01:54:12,439
Speaker 2: But the group is it stands with Tony Leoni, with

1780
01:54:12,960 --> 01:54:18,960
Speaker 2: Scott Gerard, Fred Tackett, Sam Clayton, Kenny Grady, myself. They

1781
01:54:19,000 --> 01:54:21,479
Speaker 2: are like doing handstands over this group, and so are we.

1782
01:54:22,400 --> 01:54:25,679
Speaker 2: I think let's let's you know that. I mentioned John

1783
01:54:25,760 --> 01:54:28,439
Speaker 2: Coltrane earlier, the last iteration of the band he had,

1784
01:54:29,280 --> 01:54:31,280
Speaker 2: and he played with some great people over the years.

1785
01:54:32,200 --> 01:54:35,240
Speaker 2: He felt like, you know, this group, it's not a

1786
01:54:35,320 --> 01:54:37,400
Speaker 2: matter whether it's the best one I've ever worked with,

1787
01:54:38,040 --> 01:54:41,360
Speaker 2: but it certainly holds with the best that I've worked with.

1788
01:54:42,040 --> 01:54:44,320
Speaker 2: That's the way I feel about this band. Is it

1789
01:54:44,440 --> 01:54:48,440
Speaker 2: better than with Lowell and at his height of powers

1790
01:54:48,480 --> 01:54:52,040
Speaker 2: and whatnot, Well, certain respects, it's not better, but it's

1791
01:54:52,160 --> 01:54:55,720
Speaker 2: just as good. It doesn't have low You can't replace Lowell.

1792
01:54:56,040 --> 01:54:59,120
Speaker 2: Maybe with AI we can, and they will. I don't know,

1793
01:55:00,200 --> 01:55:02,080
Speaker 2: they'll They'll have to cross that bridge when they come

1794
01:55:02,120 --> 01:55:05,680
Speaker 2: to it. But for right now, if live music is

1795
01:55:06,240 --> 01:55:09,720
Speaker 2: such and recording as such, and you're gonna write a song.

1796
01:55:10,400 --> 01:55:13,000
Speaker 2: Those songs come from the heart. They come from a

1797
01:55:13,040 --> 01:55:17,200
Speaker 2: place that AI doesn't possess. It has an intellect, which

1798
01:55:17,280 --> 01:55:21,320
Speaker 2: is it's not a bad thing to have sometimes, but

1799
01:55:21,440 --> 01:55:25,280
Speaker 2: it's not everything. You have to have heart and an

1800
01:55:25,280 --> 01:55:29,480
Speaker 2: acumen to know when to play, when to lay out,

1801
01:55:30,080 --> 01:55:33,160
Speaker 2: when to say, you know what. Maybe that acoustic piano

1802
01:55:33,240 --> 01:55:35,520
Speaker 2: is not to write instruments for this, I'm gonna play

1803
01:55:35,520 --> 01:55:39,680
Speaker 2: a wordlesser. I'm gonna just lay out of this section

1804
01:55:39,840 --> 01:55:43,320
Speaker 2: I'm gonna have. I'm gonna ask Linda Ronstadt to sing

1805
01:55:43,520 --> 01:55:48,840
Speaker 2: softer on this duet she's doing with the Craig Fuller

1806
01:55:48,880 --> 01:55:53,120
Speaker 2: on the song that the Laker Organization tapped as a

1807
01:55:53,200 --> 01:55:57,160
Speaker 2: song as a goodbye song to Kareem Abdul Jabbar voices

1808
01:55:57,200 --> 01:56:00,720
Speaker 2: on the wind. I defy a I to come up

1809
01:56:00,720 --> 01:56:01,240
Speaker 2: with any of that.

1810
01:56:02,200 --> 01:56:04,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm certainly with young. Now let me just a

1811
01:56:04,120 --> 01:56:07,160
Speaker 1: little clean up work. You talked about the finances, So

1812
01:56:07,320 --> 01:56:09,120
Speaker 1: how has it been financially.

1813
01:56:10,760 --> 01:56:12,960
Speaker 2: We started from ground zero about a year and a half,

1814
01:56:13,200 --> 01:56:16,120
Speaker 2: almost two years ago, and it took some doing to

1815
01:56:16,400 --> 01:56:19,240
Speaker 2: UH to build the coffers up to where we could

1816
01:56:19,280 --> 01:56:21,720
Speaker 2: actually begin to breathe a little easier.

1817
01:56:22,760 --> 01:56:22,880
Speaker 1: Uh.

1818
01:56:23,200 --> 01:56:26,720
Speaker 2: That's from good management. It's from good planning. Uh, it's

1819
01:56:26,760 --> 01:56:29,200
Speaker 2: from from us doing what we're supposed to do when

1820
01:56:29,240 --> 01:56:32,400
Speaker 2: we when we hit the stage, which is just deliver.

1821
01:56:33,400 --> 01:56:35,200
Speaker 2: Uh the old adage as you well now it's you're

1822
01:56:35,200 --> 01:56:37,640
Speaker 2: all as good as you were last week, right, or

1823
01:56:37,680 --> 01:56:40,960
Speaker 2: how you were thought of last week. So Uh, some

1824
01:56:41,080 --> 01:56:45,480
Speaker 2: people cannot handle that pressure. I welcome it, you know.

1825
01:56:45,960 --> 01:56:46,080
Speaker 1: Uh.

1826
01:56:46,320 --> 01:56:50,600
Speaker 2: We marched on stage with Letter Roll in South London

1827
01:56:51,040 --> 01:56:54,280
Speaker 2: with Bonnie Raid and man, woman and child that we're

1828
01:56:54,280 --> 01:56:56,280
Speaker 2: in that audience, Bob. We were about six feet up

1829
01:56:56,960 --> 01:56:59,840
Speaker 2: looking out over them. Their arms were crossed across the

1830
01:57:00,200 --> 01:57:04,760
Speaker 2: chest looking at us in a defiant mode of prove it,

1831
01:57:05,880 --> 01:57:09,960
Speaker 2: and as a war on the hands dropped it their sides.

1832
01:57:10,360 --> 01:57:11,920
Speaker 2: By the end of the set, their hands were in

1833
01:57:11,960 --> 01:57:13,480
Speaker 2: the air and they were like that for twenty five

1834
01:57:13,560 --> 01:57:17,760
Speaker 2: minutes after we left the stage. That's what I want.

1835
01:57:18,680 --> 01:57:21,800
Speaker 2: I'm there to prove that what we're doing. What I

1836
01:57:21,920 --> 01:57:24,240
Speaker 2: do when every time I walk into to play music

1837
01:57:24,320 --> 01:57:29,360
Speaker 2: with somebody or to hold a conversation with somebody, I've

1838
01:57:29,480 --> 01:57:31,720
Speaker 2: lived it. I've lived a life. I'm still living it

1839
01:57:32,640 --> 01:57:40,680
Speaker 2: and hopefully I'll know when to relinquish center fields. If

1840
01:57:40,720 --> 01:57:45,160
Speaker 2: I've dropped fly balls like Willie Mays was in center field,

1841
01:57:45,240 --> 01:57:48,640
Speaker 2: maybe I'll call it. Then. Right now I'm catching everything

1842
01:57:48,680 --> 01:57:51,200
Speaker 2: has hit to me, so I'm gonna keep playing, but just.

1843
01:57:51,400 --> 01:57:53,200
Speaker 1: Drooling down on the money for a little bit. Second,

1844
01:57:53,200 --> 01:57:57,120
Speaker 1: you were in a bend, had multiple members forgetting today

1845
01:57:58,080 --> 01:58:01,000
Speaker 1: throughout your career. I mean, I'll be very specific. You

1846
01:58:01,120 --> 01:58:03,720
Speaker 1: end up playing with Leftover seam And, which hadn't deal

1847
01:58:03,800 --> 01:58:07,200
Speaker 1: with Hollywood Records, but really is more of an indie

1848
01:58:07,400 --> 01:58:11,480
Speaker 1: jam band, more of a localized Colorado scene. Are you

1849
01:58:11,680 --> 01:58:15,400
Speaker 1: taking those gigs because you say, hey, I like them,

1850
01:58:15,520 --> 01:58:17,040
Speaker 1: or you say, listen, I need to work, I need

1851
01:58:17,080 --> 01:58:17,839
Speaker 1: to pay the bills.

1852
01:58:19,000 --> 01:58:21,480
Speaker 2: I start, what do I like who I'm working with?

1853
01:58:22,800 --> 01:58:26,040
Speaker 2: And at one point I had to say to them,

1854
01:58:26,520 --> 01:58:30,200
Speaker 2: to the Leftover Salmon, I got an offer from the

1855
01:58:30,280 --> 01:58:33,840
Speaker 2: Davy Brothers, which came about in a securest way, but

1856
01:58:33,960 --> 01:58:38,960
Speaker 2: I pressed the issue and I'm going to do it

1857
01:58:39,080 --> 01:58:41,280
Speaker 2: very well financed with us, guys I've done for a

1858
01:58:41,360 --> 01:58:43,440
Speaker 2: long time, and I'm not going to be able to

1859
01:58:43,480 --> 01:58:48,200
Speaker 2: play music with you any longer. And I'd always upsetting

1860
01:58:48,200 --> 01:58:51,160
Speaker 2: it to them at first, and I said, remember I

1861
01:58:51,360 --> 01:58:53,880
Speaker 2: was the old man in the sea for a long

1862
01:58:53,960 --> 01:58:58,880
Speaker 2: time with you guys, I'm not with them, and I

1863
01:58:59,560 --> 01:59:01,560
Speaker 2: don't feel like I played any worse or less than

1864
01:59:01,600 --> 01:59:05,080
Speaker 2: I played with anybody. I come in as a team player.

1865
01:59:05,320 --> 01:59:08,040
Speaker 2: I come in as a I don't have to be

1866
01:59:08,280 --> 01:59:10,880
Speaker 2: in the band in order to play as if I'm

1867
01:59:10,960 --> 01:59:15,680
Speaker 2: in the band. So that's that's my attitude. I've turned down.

1868
01:59:15,840 --> 01:59:18,600
Speaker 2: I've turned down Madi. I was offered a chance to

1869
01:59:18,880 --> 01:59:24,080
Speaker 2: the the to write the theme song for a Cops

1870
01:59:25,040 --> 01:59:28,560
Speaker 2: and for Baywatch. I turned them both down. My agent

1871
01:59:28,600 --> 01:59:30,760
Speaker 2: about hit the wall. He said, are you out of

1872
01:59:30,800 --> 01:59:35,360
Speaker 2: your mind? I said, yeah, I guess I am. Well,

1873
01:59:35,400 --> 01:59:39,080
Speaker 2: you call yourself something different, I said, I would still

1874
01:59:39,120 --> 01:59:43,520
Speaker 2: know it was me. I've worked around enough. I mean,

1875
01:59:43,640 --> 01:59:46,160
Speaker 2: you know, that's what musicians are from time to time

1876
01:59:46,200 --> 01:59:49,520
Speaker 2: for prostitutes. But you choose who you want to lay with,

1877
01:59:50,280 --> 01:59:54,080
Speaker 2: and I don't want to lay with this, okay.

1878
01:59:54,600 --> 01:59:57,960
Speaker 1: Are there any royalties of significance from the Little Feet

1879
01:59:57,960 --> 01:59:59,440
Speaker 1: era and from the songs you've written?

1880
02:00:00,880 --> 02:00:05,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, we did pretty well. The eraror that we live

1881
02:00:05,840 --> 02:00:09,280
Speaker 2: in now, as you know as well as anybody the

1882
02:00:10,000 --> 02:00:16,680
Speaker 2: the streaming, it's an outrage, it's it's it's that right.

1883
02:00:17,920 --> 02:00:20,320
Speaker 2: I don't think much of what is going on within

1884
02:00:20,560 --> 02:00:23,680
Speaker 2: the rule of so called rule of law these days,

1885
02:00:23,800 --> 02:00:29,000
Speaker 2: or what what masquerades is law is right on any level,

1886
02:00:29,680 --> 02:00:37,040
Speaker 2: personal or otherwise, as to what to do about it. Again,

1887
02:00:37,160 --> 02:00:39,440
Speaker 2: like most things in life, you can choose your battles.

1888
02:00:39,440 --> 02:00:43,120
Speaker 2: If it's something you think you can can now to

1889
02:00:43,200 --> 02:00:49,280
Speaker 2: a campaign and make it work us, then more power

1890
02:00:49,360 --> 02:00:53,680
Speaker 2: to you. Generally speaking, these things that do not people

1891
02:00:53,760 --> 02:00:58,320
Speaker 2: with power and wealth do not relinquish it easily and

1892
02:00:58,440 --> 02:01:01,839
Speaker 2: are not about to do so with the streaming services.

1893
02:01:01,920 --> 02:01:03,000
Speaker 2: But we'll see where it goes.

1894
02:01:03,920 --> 02:01:07,720
Speaker 1: And you're going on the road now and you're playing

1895
02:01:07,880 --> 02:01:13,040
Speaker 1: complete albums. Concurrent with that, you're releasing repackaged versions of

1896
02:01:13,120 --> 02:01:15,960
Speaker 1: the second and third album Sailing Juice and Dixie Chicken

1897
02:01:16,520 --> 02:01:19,840
Speaker 1: with additional stuff. Tell me about the decisions to do that.

1898
02:01:21,800 --> 02:01:26,880
Speaker 2: Our management came in. They thought with the notion of

1899
02:01:27,000 --> 02:01:31,440
Speaker 2: doing Waiting for Columbus, which we did UH, that it

1900
02:01:31,480 --> 02:01:37,560
Speaker 2: would be good of UH Wars had a desire to

1901
02:01:37,920 --> 02:01:43,080
Speaker 2: possibly re release a couple of records maybe more, And

1902
02:01:43,440 --> 02:01:46,720
Speaker 2: I had just played with the dav Brothers on a

1903
02:01:46,760 --> 02:01:50,080
Speaker 2: couple of UH. I think we played in New York

1904
02:01:50,120 --> 02:01:54,520
Speaker 2: at the what a big theater New York is the

1905
02:01:55,120 --> 02:02:00,400
Speaker 2: Reacon big a theater? Uh? We played a couple of there.

1906
02:02:01,600 --> 02:02:06,320
Speaker 2: I know that Steely Dan you know Don Don's done it.

1907
02:02:07,640 --> 02:02:09,840
Speaker 2: I thought, yeah, I like the idea of it. And

1908
02:02:09,920 --> 02:02:13,320
Speaker 2: then what we will do that's maybe a little different

1909
02:02:13,400 --> 02:02:16,720
Speaker 2: than at least what the Doomie Brothers did to a degree.

1910
02:02:17,800 --> 02:02:21,360
Speaker 2: If we're playing Juliet, maybe we'll lengthen it a little bit.

1911
02:02:22,040 --> 02:02:25,560
Speaker 2: You know, we nothing's written in stone with us. We

1912
02:02:25,920 --> 02:02:29,000
Speaker 2: can We're not going to disguise a song like maybe

1913
02:02:29,040 --> 02:02:32,040
Speaker 2: Bob Dylan would. We'll make it where they know that

1914
02:02:32,120 --> 02:02:36,080
Speaker 2: it's Juliet if they're familiar with the team like you were, Uh,

1915
02:02:37,160 --> 02:02:39,400
Speaker 2: and play it. But but I want to have the

1916
02:02:39,520 --> 02:02:43,240
Speaker 2: ability to mess around with tempo's a little bit from

1917
02:02:43,320 --> 02:02:46,080
Speaker 2: time to time. Let's let's see what the arrangement is.

1918
02:02:47,000 --> 02:02:47,160
Speaker 1: Uh.

1919
02:02:48,560 --> 02:02:52,200
Speaker 2: Do I play it? Uh? Piano with strings? Do I

1920
02:02:52,240 --> 02:02:56,680
Speaker 2: play it just rose? Do we have a a man

1921
02:02:56,760 --> 02:03:00,680
Speaker 2: delendas opposed to a guitar playing some parts to it?

1922
02:03:02,440 --> 02:03:07,000
Speaker 2: Leave in our improvisational style, intact to play the album

1923
02:03:07,080 --> 02:03:12,200
Speaker 2: but not replicated. And it's a you know, as the

1924
02:03:12,320 --> 02:03:16,000
Speaker 2: Eagles have done. You go to an Eagles concert. I've

1925
02:03:16,040 --> 02:03:20,320
Speaker 2: been to one, I guess, and they'll play the record.

1926
02:03:20,360 --> 02:03:23,560
Speaker 2: By God, it sounds like the record. That's the style.

1927
02:03:23,800 --> 02:03:25,640
Speaker 2: I don't knock it at all. It's it's not our style.

1928
02:03:27,320 --> 02:03:28,720
Speaker 1: And why do you live in Montana?

1929
02:03:31,600 --> 02:03:37,400
Speaker 2: I live here because of the beauty of it, the solitude,

1930
02:03:37,880 --> 02:03:41,480
Speaker 2: the fact that he gets fifty below zero during the winter.

1931
02:03:42,520 --> 02:03:46,240
Speaker 2: He keeps the riff raff out, he keeps the riff

1932
02:03:46,360 --> 02:03:52,520
Speaker 2: raff in. It's It's just one of those places where

1933
02:03:53,440 --> 02:03:56,960
Speaker 2: because I travel all the time, I wanted to come

1934
02:03:57,000 --> 02:04:01,680
Speaker 2: back to someplace that felt like, you know, where people

1935
02:04:01,800 --> 02:04:06,720
Speaker 2: aren't you know, I'm just another guy up here. I mean,

1936
02:04:06,800 --> 02:04:10,000
Speaker 2: people know who I am. It's not that the the

1937
02:04:12,040 --> 02:04:15,240
Speaker 2: it's I'm not I'm not afraid of celebrity. I'm not

1938
02:04:15,360 --> 02:04:19,520
Speaker 2: Loel George. I'm not you know, I'm not a celebrity.

1939
02:04:19,600 --> 02:04:22,080
Speaker 2: But I kind of am in a certain sense, and

1940
02:04:22,160 --> 02:04:25,880
Speaker 2: become more so as people know more about me. But

1941
02:04:26,000 --> 02:04:28,760
Speaker 2: what they quickly learn about me is, look, I'm still

1942
02:04:28,800 --> 02:04:30,640
Speaker 2: the same guy gets beat up on the playground like

1943
02:04:30,720 --> 02:04:33,040
Speaker 2: everybody else. I just happen to have a talent to

1944
02:04:33,080 --> 02:04:36,440
Speaker 2: play piano, and I've utilized it in a pretty grand

1945
02:04:36,520 --> 02:04:40,920
Speaker 2: fashion throughout my career to do just that so I

1946
02:04:41,000 --> 02:04:44,520
Speaker 2: can be the I told somebody on TV Ruters tour,

1947
02:04:44,760 --> 02:04:47,760
Speaker 2: they're driving a bus. Andy, Yeah, but you're a rock star.

1948
02:04:48,640 --> 02:04:50,200
Speaker 2: I said, well, if you want to think of me

1949
02:04:50,240 --> 02:04:53,240
Speaker 2: as a rock star, go ahead. What I am in

1950
02:04:53,360 --> 02:04:57,320
Speaker 2: fact as a musician, and I hold that to be

1951
02:04:58,600 --> 02:05:00,440
Speaker 2: I played with a lot of rock stars. I met

1952
02:05:00,480 --> 02:05:04,640
Speaker 2: a bunch and I admire you know, I admire those people.

1953
02:05:05,320 --> 02:05:06,840
Speaker 2: Have I one of them. If you want to think

1954
02:05:06,920 --> 02:05:09,160
Speaker 2: of me as one, go ahead, I don't really think

1955
02:05:09,200 --> 02:05:09,440
Speaker 2: I am.

1956
02:05:11,480 --> 02:05:13,320
Speaker 1: And on that note, I think we're going to stop

1957
02:05:13,400 --> 02:05:13,920
Speaker 1: it for now.

1958
02:05:14,920 --> 02:05:15,120
Speaker 2: Bill.

1959
02:05:15,160 --> 02:05:17,200
Speaker 1: I want to thank you so much for taking the

1960
02:05:17,320 --> 02:05:21,960
Speaker 1: time with my audience, very thoughtful responses. You never really

1961
02:05:22,040 --> 02:05:24,720
Speaker 1: know until you talk to somebody who they are, but

1962
02:05:24,840 --> 02:05:26,120
Speaker 1: you're obviously a thinker.

1963
02:05:26,320 --> 02:05:30,160
Speaker 2: So thanks again a pleasure, Bove, and I've enjoyed breathing

1964
02:05:30,280 --> 02:05:35,520
Speaker 2: your work over the years. I haven't always agreed with it,

1965
02:05:35,640 --> 02:05:37,520
Speaker 2: but I got to say that for the same thing.

1966
02:05:37,680 --> 02:05:41,080
Speaker 2: You know, you get them as you see them, and

1967
02:05:41,200 --> 02:05:45,240
Speaker 2: I think there's you obviously are a thinking person as well.

1968
02:05:45,440 --> 02:05:49,280
Speaker 2: I respect that in people that can actually think. It

1969
02:05:49,360 --> 02:05:52,000
Speaker 2: gives them the latitude and the respect to do so.

1970
02:05:52,720 --> 02:05:54,000
Speaker 2: So I have a lot of respect for you, and

1971
02:05:54,080 --> 02:05:56,120
Speaker 2: I actually have to agree with you a lot a

1972
02:05:56,160 --> 02:05:57,480
Speaker 2: lot of things you write about as well.

1973
02:05:57,920 --> 02:06:00,280
Speaker 1: Right, I wouldn't expect you to agree with everything, but

1974
02:06:00,360 --> 02:06:02,400
Speaker 1: you know, in a world where everybody just makes it

1975
02:06:02,440 --> 02:06:05,360
Speaker 1: about the dollar, and I'm not saying the dollar is

1976
02:06:05,440 --> 02:06:08,320
Speaker 1: not important, you know, it's the the number of what's

1977
02:06:08,360 --> 02:06:10,600
Speaker 1: around the dollar, I'm thinking about it. And the way

1978
02:06:10,640 --> 02:06:15,400
Speaker 1: you describe music that you know it was certainly very

1979
02:06:15,520 --> 02:06:19,000
Speaker 1: insightful and not what you get from the average person.

1980
02:06:19,240 --> 02:06:23,200
Speaker 1: You certainly said things you don't normally hear and I

1981
02:06:23,320 --> 02:06:27,160
Speaker 1: think will be helpful for musician's I hope.

1982
02:06:27,240 --> 02:06:31,240
Speaker 2: So again, thanks for the thanks for the conversation. Honestly,

1983
02:06:31,400 --> 02:06:34,960
Speaker 2: it's a pleasure talking to you and me with you.

1984
02:06:35,600 --> 02:06:38,200
Speaker 1: Until next time. This is Bob left six