1 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to stuff 2 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: Will never told you production to buy her radio, and 3 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: welcome to a Monday mini content. Warning before we get 4 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:26,119 Speaker 1: into this, we are going to be talking about abortions 5 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: and death. So if you're not in space for that today, 6 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:32,880 Speaker 1: totally understand. But this is really important. We're going to 7 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:35,239 Speaker 1: have to come back and talk about it a lot 8 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 1: because we were being very specific in this episode about 9 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,159 Speaker 1: our home state of Georgia. It's also kind of a 10 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 1: rapidly evolving situation. So today is October fourth, twenty twenty four. 11 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: But I wrote this, we put together this outline I 12 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 1: think September thirtieth. I checked to see if there were 13 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: other updates, but you know, things are changing constantly. Yes, yes, 14 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: So today we're going to be talking about abortion and 15 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: specifically what's going on in our home state of Georgia, 16 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: where in twenty twenty two, a six week abortion band 17 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: wasn't acted and you probably heard, but recently the deaths 18 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:22,320 Speaker 1: of two women were attributed to delays and emergency medical 19 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:27,680 Speaker 1: care due to the state's abortion bands, and experts maintain 20 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: these deaths were preventable and there's a lot to break 21 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 1: down here. So let's look into it. Twenty eight year 22 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,680 Speaker 1: old Amber Nicole Thurban took abortion pills and suffered a 23 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: rare complication where her body didn't get rid of all 24 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: of the fetal tissue. She went to the hospital for 25 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: a routine procedure called a dilation and courtage, or a DNC, 26 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: something the hospital could completely treat. However, earlier in twenty 27 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 1: twenty two, Georgia had enacted an abortion band that made 28 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: DNC's most completely illegal, with only a few exceptions. Doctors 29 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 1: who performed the procedure could face up to a decade 30 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: in jail. So Thurman waited in the hospital bed in 31 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: pain as her infection worsened and her organs failed for 32 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 1: twenty hours. She waited before the operation finally started, but 33 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: at that point it was too late and she died. 34 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: Thurman had decided on an abortion soon after she found 35 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 1: out she was pregnant. However, her pregnancy just passed the 36 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: six week deadline that was put into effect on July twentieth, 37 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 1: twenty twenty two. She hoped that the ban would be 38 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 1: overturned so she could get an abortion close to home, 39 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 1: but when that didn't happen, over the next few weeks, 40 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: she decided to go to North Carolina, where her abortion 41 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 1: would still be legal. However, the clinic was overwhelmed with 42 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 1: people trying to get healthcare in the wake of other bands, 43 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 1: and she missed her slot. She was instead prescribed a 44 00:02:56,160 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 1: medical two pill abortion, completely legal, completely safe. Because taking 45 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:03,800 Speaker 1: the day off and dealing with protesters have been costly 46 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: and an ordeal, Thurman signed a release that she understood 47 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: she'd need to go to the emergency room on the 48 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: off chances something went wrong. She took the pills as 49 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: instructed when she started noticing symptoms. The clinic in North 50 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:22,639 Speaker 1: Carolina would have performed the procedure she needed in an 51 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 1: hour for free, but she wasn't in North Carolina anymore. 52 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 1: Just a note, death due to complications of these pills 53 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 1: are extremely rare. From twenty to twenty twenty four, over 54 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: six million American women have taken the peprestone, and only 55 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 1: thirty two deaths were reported to the FDA, only thirty two. 56 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: Many of the deaths involved sepsis or things like drug 57 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: overdoses and titchinal or accidental so after her death, a 58 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: state committee of experts, including ten doctors, determined that her 59 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: death was preventable, and that this delay was a quote 60 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: large reason she died. The committee's job is to improve 61 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: maternal health by looking into pregnancy related deaths, so that's 62 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: why they were looking into it. While their reviews aren't public, 63 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: news outlets like pro Publica have confirmed at least two 64 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: other women have died because Georgia's abortion bands have prevented 65 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 1: them from accessing the care that they need in a 66 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 1: timely manner. There are almost certainly more, especially because a 67 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 1: lot of these committees have a lag of up to 68 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 1: two years, which is why we're hearing about this now. 69 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 1: This means we could be seeing a lot more stories 70 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:37,279 Speaker 1: coming out since the overturning of Roe v. Wade. Soon 71 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 1: Thurmons is being called the first official case of a 72 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 1: preventable abortion related death since then, since Roe v. Wade 73 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: was overturned, and this is what medical experts warned would happen. 74 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 1: Even though Republican lawmakers pushing for these bands often point 75 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:58,159 Speaker 1: to exceptions for the life of the mother, this ignores 76 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 1: how bodies work and how medicine works. It's also just 77 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 1: cruel and pointless because you're just waiting to see if 78 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 1: it gets worse. Why, And of course medical practitioners are 79 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:13,039 Speaker 1: worried about being prosecuted, so that adds a whole other layer. 80 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 1: People have been turned away and told to come back 81 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 1: when they're worse or quote crashing, even when the pregnancy 82 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: isn't viable, even when in dangers lives. Yep, that's dangerous. Also. 83 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: By the time Thurmann went to the hospital, she had 84 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:29,919 Speaker 1: vomited blood and passed out. And I don't know how 85 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,280 Speaker 1: much worse you have to get. The report on her 86 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: death deemed it should have been immediately clear that she 87 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: was in danger. She was diagnosed with acute severe sepsis 88 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:43,280 Speaker 1: at around nine thirty PM, but she didn't receive treatment 89 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: until the next day. DNC was discussed multiple times before 90 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: she died, so they knew this was a thing that 91 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: they were worried about performing it. The hospital did not 92 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 1: have clear instructions on how to interpret the law, and 93 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,600 Speaker 1: a lot of the wording is disturbingly vague. Weren't sure 94 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 1: how like how much in danger does she have to be? 95 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 1: According to ProPublica, the availability of DNC's after Roe vwwaid 96 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 1: decrease the maternal death rate for women of color by 97 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 1: up to forty percent, and Georgia has one of the 98 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 1: country's highest maternal death rates, and black women are three 99 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 1: times more at risk than white women. Maternal death rates 100 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:27,280 Speaker 1: are going up as part of the reason this committee exists. 101 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 1: When asked to comments, Republican officials said it was part 102 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:46,840 Speaker 1: of a fear mongering campaign. In light of all of this, 103 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: On September thirtieth, twenty twenty four, a judge in Georgia 104 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:54,720 Speaker 1: struck down the state's six week abortion law. Fulton County 105 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 1: Superior Court Judge Robert McBurney wrote, liberty in Georgia includes, 106 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: in its meaning, in its petions, and in its bundle 107 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 1: of rights, the power of a woman to control her 108 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: own body, to decide what happens to it, and in 109 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: it antert state interference with her healthcare choices. When a 110 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 1: fetus growing inside a woman reaches viability, when society can 111 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 1: assume care and responsibility for that separate life, then and 112 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: only then, may society intervene. An arbitrary six week ban 113 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: on post embryonic cardiac activity pregnancy terminations is inconsistent with 114 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: these rights and the proper balance that a viability rule 115 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: establishes between a woman's rights of liberty and privacy and 116 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 1: society's interest in protecting and caring for unborn infants, So 117 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: his new ruling would allow abortions for up to twenty weeks, 118 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: which is what it was. An appeal has already been 119 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 1: announced though goes yeah. But if it stands, it could 120 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: open the doors for a similar overturning in nearby states 121 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: because here in the South. It's part of the issue 122 00:07:56,680 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 1: is a lot of neighboring states have similar things. You 123 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: have to travel pretty far to get one. At the 124 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 1: same time, people in Georgia, both providers and otherwise, have 125 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 1: spoken about how much the uncertainty weighs on them. So 126 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 1: like performing abortions, who knows how long we could be 127 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: doing this. Before the band was enacted, there was an 128 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 1: estimated four four hundred abortions a month in Georgia, and 129 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: after it was enacted it's about twenty four hundred. The 130 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: legal challenge that led to this overturning was brought by 131 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: Sister Song Women of Color Reproductive Collective against the State 132 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 1: of Georgia. So even if things can feel hopeless, there 133 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 1: are people doing this work and things can be changed. 134 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 1: The executive director of Sister Song, Monicas Simpson, said today's 135 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:45,560 Speaker 1: when was hard fought and is a significant step in 136 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:48,959 Speaker 1: the right direction towards achieving reproductive justice in Georgia, where 137 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 1: you are encouraged that a Georgia court has ruled for 138 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:56,079 Speaker 1: bodily autonomy. So I think we're going to see a 139 00:08:56,120 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: lot more stories about this right than the coming weeks. 140 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 2: It's already being challenged right now, so I have a 141 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 2: feeling this is going to lead up to Supreme Court 142 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 2: hearing again. 143 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: Maybe yep, but. 144 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 2: Again, just like you said that this is the good 145 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 2: news that it will continue to be challenged. Unfortunately, is 146 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 2: at the cost of women's lives. 147 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 1: Yep. 148 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 2: I know not too long ago the parents of Amber 149 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 2: was loud about how she is not a statistic and 150 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 2: that this was preventable and this is a heinous way 151 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 2: of losing their child because again, it was an easy procedure. 152 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 2: It should have it shouldn't It should not have happened. 153 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,959 Speaker 2: And we've seen this all over the country. We've seen 154 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:43,439 Speaker 2: more and more women being charged for murder with miscarriages 155 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 2: as well. Uh, there's a lot happening that we can't constant. 156 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 2: It's definitely constant. I have seen about abortion being on 157 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 2: the ballot in Georgia. 158 00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: Oh, because it's not currently but is it They're going 159 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:01,400 Speaker 1: to put it on the ballot. 160 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 2: I think there's a whole conversation, and I know Florida 161 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 2: for sure is having a conversation and they are pushing 162 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 2: to have that on the ballot, and most of the 163 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 2: citizens of Florida are like, yeah, we want it, but 164 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:15,319 Speaker 2: Descantas is like fighting hard against it. I believe it's 165 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 2: being talked about in Georgia. There's a lot happening. We 166 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 2: know this as a newly purple state that we are 167 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 2: having to fight so much, and we say as in 168 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 2: the collective state of Georgia. There's also just been in 169 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:31,320 Speaker 2: a hurricane that has caused massive havoc on the southeast, 170 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 2: including areas of Georgia. Atlanta. Augusta has hit really hard, 171 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 2: which is south of Atlanta. But there's a lot happening, 172 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 2: and including our Board of Elections and voter registration being 173 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 2: constantly challenged because they are trying to do hand ballots, 174 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 2: hand counts. They are trying to already disenfranchise so many people. 175 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 2: Our deadline registration deadline is coming up, and they've done 176 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 2: a lot to kid out a lot of voters. Like 177 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 2: it is hot, like I'm almost i guess, just to 178 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 2: be too real, lost hope in Georgia, not because of 179 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 2: the people of Georgia, but because of the corruption that 180 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 2: has happened in the board, even to the point that 181 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 2: our leaders are afraid to do either way, like they're 182 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 2: not even they're not condemning anything and they're not approving 183 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 2: of anything. So it's just it's a show essentially down here. 184 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 2: And and a lot of this also, the abortion stuff, 185 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 2: it is. 186 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:29,840 Speaker 1: A lot. 187 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 2: It is a lot happening here. 188 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 1: It is, it is. But definitely check out if this 189 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:40,959 Speaker 1: is something that's important to you. Check out organizations who 190 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 1: are doing work like this. Check to see if you're 191 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 1: registered to vote, even if you think you are, check again. 192 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 1: But yeah, this is We're gonna have to come back 193 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:51,679 Speaker 1: and talk about this because, like I said, this is 194 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 1: pretty specific to our region, but it's happening. It's happening 195 00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 1: everywhere and not just in the US unfortunately. But yeah, 196 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: if you listeners, if you have any resources or any 197 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:09,080 Speaker 1: organizations we should check out. If you've seen anything where 198 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 1: you are wherever that is that we should be talking about, 199 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 1: please let us know. You can email us a Steffani 200 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 1: your mom stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find 201 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 1: us on Twitter, at moms to podcast on Instagram and 202 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 1: TikTok at Stuff I've Never Told You. We're also on YouTube. 203 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: We have a tea public store, and we have a 204 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 1: book where we do talk about abortion. You can get 205 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 1: wherever you get your books. Thanks as always to our 206 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 1: super producer consenaor executive Trust to Maya and your contribuer Joey. 207 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:34,559 Speaker 1: Thank you, Thanks to you for listening. Stuff I Never 208 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 1: Told You is production of I Heart Radio. For more 209 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:37,559 Speaker 1: podcasts from my heart Radio, you can check out the 210 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to 211 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 1: your paper shows.