Speaker 1: Also media.
Speaker 2: I'm a p R A U X. You can spell
Speaker 2: pro that way anyway. This is behind the Bastard's a podcast,
Speaker 2: Bad People tell you all. I'm Robert Evans, and I'm
Speaker 2: enjoying a beautiful day here in the Bay, in the
Speaker 2: city of San Francisco, where I'm hanging out. Jamie. How
Speaker 2: do you feel about San Francisco, Jamie Loft, this guest host.
Speaker 3: I I look, here's what I'll say. Here's I did
Speaker 3: nothing wrong.
Speaker 4: Did I consider robbing a grave when I was you know, seven? Yes?
Speaker 3: But live laugh learn.
Speaker 4: I like San Francisco, which I'm saying mainly because I
Speaker 4: have a show.
Speaker 3: Coming up there at the beginning of February. So I'll
Speaker 3: tell you what I really think about February. Yeah, I'll
Speaker 3: tell you what I think about that. San Francisco truly
Speaker 3: off off Mike, but for the public faicy purposes.
Speaker 4: What a town, What doesn't freak me out at all?
Speaker 2: What a place that didn't invite me to sketch Fest
Speaker 2: this year? So I'm angry. But more importantly, Jamie, it's
Speaker 2: a place where I suffered easily the greatest trauma of
Speaker 2: my life. You know, do you know? You know Jaws.
Speaker 2: You know Quint the shark hunter, who's who's yeah obviously, yeah,
Speaker 2: the dead.
Speaker 3: To the world, buncle to the world.
Speaker 2: You know how his character's backstory is, this was a
Speaker 2: real battle too. In World War Two. He was like
Speaker 2: a navy man and his ship got sunk and everyone
Speaker 2: but him got eaten by sharks. That's his backstory. And
Speaker 2: then like a madman, the guy with the silver hair,
Speaker 2: who's who's a lot of fun most of the time,
Speaker 2: but he fought in the Pacific. And so there's that
Speaker 2: one episode where those Japanese businessmen come in and he
Speaker 2: gets real uncomfortable very quickly. This is my version of
Speaker 2: that racism. Yeah, Roger Sterling, he gets traumatized. Right, I'm
Speaker 2: telling you my story of the thing that traumatized me
Speaker 2: and now has forever ruined me.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: This we're getting heavy darting right off the gate. So
Speaker 2: twenty eighteen, I go to Corgi Kan, which is where
Speaker 2: all of the Corgi's in the Bay Area gather by
Speaker 2: the beach and romp around. Several hundred Corgis.
Speaker 4: Romp around and some would say start making plants starts.
Speaker 2: Perhaps perhaps I can't speak to that because I was
Speaker 2: being confronted with the worst thing that I've ever seen
Speaker 2: that day, which is a makeshift sign outside of Corky
Speaker 2: Khan that said welcome to sanfran Corgsco. Now, Jamie, I
Speaker 2: wake up screaming when I think about how angry that
Speaker 2: sign makes me. Like San Franciscorg was right there.
Speaker 1: You've told this story on Mike before your story he traumatized, Sophie.
Speaker 2: Yeah, god, yeah, this this did permanent damage to my psyche,
Speaker 2: my soul, so my ability to trust and love people.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it wasn't the It wasn't the pun. It was
Speaker 3: that the pun was wrong.
Speaker 2: It was a bad pun. They picked the wrong pun.
Speaker 2: That doesn't make any sense, Jamie. Well, if you wrote
Speaker 2: that sign, and there's like a twenty percent chance you're
Speaker 2: listening to this podcast right now, I will find you
Speaker 2: and I will take my vengeance and.
Speaker 1: Get it together.
Speaker 2: If you tell this.
Speaker 1: If you tell this story a third time, I will
Speaker 1: fire you.
Speaker 2: Huh. I'm never going to stop telling the story, So
Speaker 2: you can't stop the signal. Speaking of the signal.
Speaker 4: No, I need to call you out really quick because
Speaker 4: you were able to describe an episode of Madmen in
Speaker 4: detail to Sophie and myself and moments before we started recording,
Speaker 4: needed to guess three separate times before correctly remembering the sport.
Speaker 3: Tanya Harding play just a reminder that we just live
Speaker 3: on different planets.
Speaker 2: Can anyone tell the difference between a gymnast and a
Speaker 2: skier a skater? She did one of the two. It's
Speaker 2: they're the same thing.
Speaker 3: And you know it's not. You're just trying to take
Speaker 3: it's all.
Speaker 2: It's all boring, you know why, Because there's there's one
Speaker 2: actual sport, Jamie Loftus, and it is playing second edition
Speaker 2: Shadow Run with your friends in nineteen ninety nine. Oh
Speaker 2: my god, that's the one, the one real sport, Jamie.
Speaker 4: I thought you were going to that's what the Greeks played.
Speaker 1: I thought you were going to say it was Simon says,
Speaker 1: and then you were going to do the podcast. Are
Speaker 1: you going to do the podcast?
Speaker 5: Now?
Speaker 2: I am going to do the podcast.
Speaker 4: Sport is what happens between periods at the hockey game.
Speaker 3: The only real sport is the guy in the zamboni.
Speaker 2: I don't disagree. I don't disagree.
Speaker 3: Takes four and we'd cheer.
Speaker 2: For We're back on the same page and now we
Speaker 2: can actually get back on the same page by talking
Speaker 2: about Mary and Petty and the Founders. Now, I'm a
Speaker 2: pretty tolerant guy. I've I've lived in multiple communes. I've
Speaker 2: stayed in several more communes, multiple countries, in fact of communes.
Speaker 3: Call you a pretty tolerant guy. Yeah, I'm very flinch
Speaker 3: What do you?
Speaker 5: What do you?
Speaker 2: How am I not tolerant? I don't know. I've got like,
Speaker 2: I don't judge people except for that lady who made
Speaker 2: the sign at the Corgi convention.
Speaker 4: Listen to what Yeah, listen to what you just said
Speaker 4: about the sign. Lady, listen to what you just said
Speaker 4: about gymnasts or man.
Speaker 2: I don't know who made the sign. Wow, that was
Speaker 2: problematic of me. Anyway, let's move on. Correct. So so far,
Speaker 2: nothing Petty or the Finders have done is like abusive, weird, questionable,
Speaker 2: definitely destined to win badly. Right, when you're telling people
Speaker 2: that they should hook up or have kids and how
Speaker 2: they should raise them, it's only a matter of time
Speaker 2: before that becomes a problem. But it hasn't been a
Speaker 2: problem yet. Right, Here's where we get into the problems. Now,
Speaker 2: what's what's interesting to me is that because the reputation
Speaker 2: these guys have them on conspiracy nuts is this was
Speaker 2: like an evil sex trafficking cult moving children across the country.
Speaker 2: The counter argument by people who rightly are like, boy,
Speaker 2: the Satanic panic was a real bad time is like, Eh,
Speaker 2: they were weird, but it was pretty benign. That's not true.
Speaker 2: This is definitely a cult, and they definitely abuse people
Speaker 2: in really fucking weird ways. It's just not the ways
Speaker 2: that they got famous for.
Speaker 4: That's that's the QAnon way to identify an issue and
Speaker 4: make a big deal about things that make no fucking sense.
Speaker 3: Therefore a meaning they'll get away with shit forever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, because there's there's and they did for a
Speaker 2: long time. There's no evidence that the finders like sexually
Speaker 2: trafficked children across you like fucking national boundaries or state
Speaker 2: boundaries for that matter. But we do know for a
Speaker 2: fact that they did the thing all cults do, which
Speaker 2: is demand their members isolate themselves from their families and
Speaker 2: then attack those families when they tried to inquire as
Speaker 2: to whether or not their loved ones were okay. That
Speaker 2: City Paper article by John Cohen includes an interview with
Speaker 2: a man named David, whose brother joined the Finder's Cult
Speaker 2: and then cut off contact with his family. David, as
Speaker 2: you would, sends his brother a letter just being like, hey, man,
Speaker 2: just wanted to make sure you're okay and this weird
Speaker 2: group where you're pretending to be spies with your landlord,
Speaker 2: you know, like not hard to see why he does this.
Speaker 4: Anye Prime document or like any cult themed documentary, that's
Speaker 4: always like one of the saddest parts when you see
Speaker 4: the family member that's like, so, yeah, she moved in
Speaker 4: with this lady who called herself mother God and I
Speaker 4: don't and then she just.
Speaker 2: Won that happy story though everyone got what they wanted
Speaker 2: out of that one good lord. So David sends this
Speaker 2: letter to his brother and he gets a response. It's
Speaker 2: on the letterhead of a company that's like one of
Speaker 2: the game projects for one of the members. Right, Petty
Speaker 2: tells one guy, hey, make a company with this name,
Speaker 2: and so the letter he gets a response on that
Speaker 2: company's letterhead. But it's written by another cult member who's
Speaker 2: basically Petty's secretary. And I'm going to quote from Cohen's
Speaker 2: article here. The letter reads, this is to testify that
Speaker 2: your son Douglas aka Ernest angel I Betterson Danny Propper.
Speaker 2: Kenny Rodgers is a true master of the art of fucking.
Speaker 2: The shape of his cock is unique, and he is
Speaker 2: truly an artist at using it to give us the
Speaker 2: most pleasure. The depth, the width, the heights. No other
Speaker 2: man touches us this way. His hands have magic as
Speaker 2: they stroke our slender limbs. And I'm not going to
Speaker 2: continue reading that. Please, It's it's it's really, it's really,
Speaker 2: it's like an extremely explicit letter word.
Speaker 3: Read so much of that I.
Speaker 2: Wanted because you shouldn't feel uncomfortable, right, which is like,
Speaker 2: I don't know, just let me get to slender limbs.
Speaker 3: Let me get to slender limbs and then I'll stop.
Speaker 2: I didn't want to read moist. You know what comes
Speaker 2: after moist in this letter, right, I don't have to say.
Speaker 4: They're describing his dick like it's like a three story
Speaker 4: apartment building like this.
Speaker 2: Is this is you know how like the Church of
Speaker 2: Scientology you speak out or like you leave or whatever,
Speaker 2: and they have guys stalk you.
Speaker 3: They'll poison your pets.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like their version of this, which is like both
Speaker 2: a lot less fucked up and also still not good,
Speaker 2: is they will when your family members or whatnot, like
Speaker 2: try to contact you or if you leave, they'll send
Speaker 2: letters to your loved ones describing what sex with you
Speaker 2: is like and sometimes showing pictures of you naked. Not
Speaker 2: it's not blackmail because they're not asking for anything. They're well,
Speaker 2: because they're yeah, so what I can tell. They're not
Speaker 2: saying do anything or stop doing something. They're just like
Speaker 2: make fucking with them, making them uncomfortable. It's weird and
Speaker 2: it's definitely bad. I'm not saying it's not bad, but
Speaker 2: I don't think there's like an exchange attempted.
Speaker 3: I know that will it I don't know.
Speaker 4: I feel like the discomfort is an exchange of sorts
Speaker 4: where it's like, well, what is this person going to
Speaker 4: do to make it stop? Like it's a weird, tacit
Speaker 4: form of blackmail where it's they don't want an item,
Speaker 4: but they want the behavior to change.
Speaker 2: Look, I think that's probably fair. It is pretty unique.
Speaker 2: I haven't heard about this being done to anyone and
Speaker 2: all of the cults I've read about, and I find
Speaker 2: that kind of interesting.
Speaker 4: I mean, it just sounds like revenge, like proto revenge porn. Basically,
Speaker 4: it is a little bit of that confusing.
Speaker 2: It's it's definitely like a lot of bit of that,
Speaker 2: although all of it there's not always pictures that exist, right,
Speaker 2: some of it's just text. Yeah, I'm trying to square
Speaker 2: myself with it because also some of the things I've read,
Speaker 2: I don't know that everyone involved in the cult would
Speaker 2: have thought of it. I think Petty sees this as
Speaker 2: revenge porn and is using it that way. It seems
Speaker 2: like a lot of the kind to the extent that
Speaker 2: there's brainwashing. This is during that kind of like free
Speaker 2: love period shit, Like all these people came out of
Speaker 2: that movement, and I kind of think some of it
Speaker 2: maybe we need to shock the normies because they shouldn't
Speaker 2: feel uncomfortable and awkward about talking about sex this way.
Speaker 2: You know, maybe this is our way of reaching them
Speaker 2: and stuff like which is also bad and unhinged. But
Speaker 2: I kind of get the feeling that's at least how
Speaker 2: this is justified internally so they don't feel gross. We're
Speaker 2: not just being abusive to these We're not trying to
Speaker 2: hurt these people. Like, no one should have a problem
Speaker 2: with this stuff, and if they can't take it, then
Speaker 2: you know they need to mature. Is divine thinking beings
Speaker 2: or whatever. I don't know. That's the feeling that I
Speaker 2: get reading stuff here. It's very uncomfortable. Yeah, it's like
Speaker 2: the letters are like they go on and on.
Speaker 4: That's the intersection of a lot of disgusting tactics and
Speaker 4: also like the sort of thing where it reminds me
Speaker 4: of like hearing stories about and like stuff that I've
Speaker 4: like of, like how how people can get away with
Speaker 4: shit like that by not having a direct threat stated,
Speaker 4: not asking for anything clear.
Speaker 3: So you're like, well, what is legally actionable?
Speaker 4: It's harassment, but like usually if you report harassment, all
Speaker 4: the fuck all anyone will do is be like, well,
Speaker 4: you call us back when they threaten to kill you.
Speaker 3: Which a lot of people know better than do do.
Speaker 2: Like, it's just also like with a lot of these cases,
Speaker 2: like in the case of this guy's family member, it's
Speaker 2: not harassment technically, right because he sent the letter first.
Speaker 2: They're responding to a letter, so like, legally, even I'm
Speaker 2: not again it's not good what they're doing. I'm saying legally,
Speaker 2: I don't know that you would have a leg to
Speaker 2: stand on if you tried to claim harassment, because they
Speaker 2: are just responding to a letter in a fucked up way.
Speaker 3: But that's why it feels like very I don't know.
Speaker 4: I mean, it seems like it's pretty you know, like
Speaker 4: this whole organization is pretty calculated to what end.
Speaker 3: I still don't understand.
Speaker 2: No one does, and you will not get an answer
Speaker 2: to that question is.
Speaker 4: No, because it is because it is if your goal
Speaker 4: is to you know, be disgusting and scary in a
Speaker 4: way that it's like there's not a direct way to
Speaker 4: nail you for it.
Speaker 3: Like that's what they're doing.
Speaker 2: And I think, again, a cult is an organization made
Speaker 2: up of multiple people, so you can have there be
Speaker 2: multiple motivations for the same act that are independent of
Speaker 2: each other. Petty, I think is doing this as a
Speaker 2: way to maintain control, as a way to be aggressive,
Speaker 2: to attack his enemies. I do believe based on what
Speaker 2: I have read of them, most of his followers kind
Speaker 2: of buy that, Well, we're trying this is about shocking.
Speaker 2: The norm is for a purpose too. We're not trying
Speaker 2: to shock these people to hurt them. There it's healthy
Speaker 2: to not have hang ups about sex, and we're trying
Speaker 2: to break through their unhealthy.
Speaker 4: Like I again, that's a.
Speaker 2: Good reason that is people make it pictures of their
Speaker 2: loved ones. I'm saying I think that's how regular people
Speaker 2: in the cult justify this.
Speaker 4: And are we still in the seventies at this point,
Speaker 4: because this all scans for Like, you guys are so
Speaker 4: like this, why don't you want to see a picture
Speaker 4: of your brother's dick.
Speaker 2: You're like, yeah, you're so scared of your brother's huge
Speaker 2: throbbing cock.
Speaker 5: We're all humans, so you're like, oh, also especially in
Speaker 5: his unique shape, like hmmmmmm mm hmm.
Speaker 2: A big thing for them was like describing and they
Speaker 2: don't just do it with penises. This are equal opportunity.
Speaker 2: And to be fair, most of the people running the cult,
Speaker 2: aside from Petty, are the women in the cult. That's
Speaker 2: like universally agreed upon by former members that like, this
Speaker 2: was not a misogynist cult. They would describe your sister's
Speaker 2: body to you in a gross letter, but they do
Speaker 2: the same for your brother, you know, so well.
Speaker 3: Disgusting to anybody. Relax.
Speaker 2: They are. They are described multiple times by the cops
Speaker 2: and others as feminists, as specifically a cabal of famis
Speaker 2: like its second wave.
Speaker 3: Second wave second wave feminism. Uh, they're like, yeah, second
Speaker 3: way feminism, you know, run a cult queen.
Speaker 2: One of the things that that makes the Finders interesting
Speaker 2: is they are they are the nexus point of a
Speaker 2: whole bunch of shit, right, There's more than a little
Speaker 2: signing on, like you know that that that like first
Speaker 2: get out of Drugs program that turns into a cult
Speaker 2: where they sit in a circle and scream at each
Speaker 2: other and male people rattlesnakes. There's some of that in there.
Speaker 2: There's a little bit of scientology in here. There's a
Speaker 2: lot of Keith Ranieri in here. He's definitely and descended
Speaker 2: from this guy. But there's also there's these really unique
Speaker 2: aspects of like New age occultism and uh kind of
Speaker 2: like like spy pulp novels from the sixties. Like it's
Speaker 2: it's such an.
Speaker 4: Odd different things going on like there, I don't know,
Speaker 4: I mean, the hearing that women were meaningfully included in
Speaker 4: this unfortunately, like especially in New Age culty movements like that,
Speaker 4: it's like the perceived inclusivity that gets a lot of
Speaker 4: people interested, I mean, and it's like that still happens
Speaker 4: now on you know, whatever wa of feminism are on
Speaker 4: final because we have like three years to live.
Speaker 2: When we talk about like how a lot of really
Speaker 2: educated and successful people are in this cult. For the
Speaker 2: women who are that and in this cult, that's part
Speaker 2: of what makes it make sense is that this is
Speaker 2: a lot less misogynistic of an environment than the world
Speaker 2: of the nineteen seventies, like the mainstream society, right, you
Speaker 2: were ordering men around, you run things like you know,
Speaker 2: that's a part of the appeal to some of the
Speaker 2: people who find this thing, right, So.
Speaker 4: They're like, Okay, so the cost of participation is I
Speaker 4: might need to send someone a picture of their brothers dick.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and describe it in loving detail. Yeah, and they'll
Speaker 2: do more than that, Jamie.
Speaker 3: Sorry, you're right, I'm getting hung up on that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. This is from a Maryland police report based on
Speaker 2: what happens once the story this cult explodes and they
Speaker 2: talk to a bunch of former family members. I have
Speaker 2: Blank interviewed all the family members who were willing to
Speaker 2: talk specifically. They all stated that Blank, probably Petty, had
Speaker 2: brainwashed their children and prevented any contact with either their
Speaker 2: children or grandchildren. Members of the Finders, according to family members,
Speaker 2: would stop any contact by sending letters describing explicit sexual
Speaker 2: acts evolving current members, including photographs and drawings. In one case,
Speaker 2: members of the Finders attempted to take over Blank family
Speaker 2: residents and force Blank out of her home. We don't
Speaker 2: get more than that, And I don't know, is this
Speaker 2: armed men showing up to steal someone's house? Are they
Speaker 2: pushing her out of a property? Cult? This detective sucks
Speaker 2: by the way, he also can't spell their right. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So we don't get any like I don't know, was
Speaker 2: this some people showed up and like harassed her. Was
Speaker 2: this like somebody called her on the phone and she
Speaker 2: felt uncomfortable and so she moved. It could really anything
Speaker 2: could be kind of included in that it doesn't sound
Speaker 2: like a thing that got handled by the police, and
Speaker 2: so there's not a report on it.
Speaker 3: I guess I'm not like completely shocked, but just like
Speaker 3: there seemed to be a number of critical moments in
Speaker 3: this story where it's just unbelievably vague.
Speaker 2: Was this the fun thing about the Finders, That's why
Speaker 2: they're the center of so many conspiracy narratives, And.
Speaker 4: So this like wasn't this wasn't like a story that
Speaker 4: was that there was any like public interest in until the.
Speaker 3: Eighties right, so they're kind of just operating. Okay. So
Speaker 3: there's police records and cult.
Speaker 4: Member records, two of the least possibly like reliable sources
Speaker 4: you could ask wow, okay.
Speaker 2: And one of the other things about it is so
Speaker 2: there are a number of people who are abused significantly
Speaker 2: and harassed significantly by this cult. It does a lot
Speaker 2: of ugly things. From what I can tell, most people
Speaker 2: who are in it walk away even afterwards, with a
Speaker 2: pretty good opinion of their time in it, which is
Speaker 2: why we don't know much because there's not a lot
Speaker 2: of narratives. People didn't come out and be like, here's
Speaker 2: what happened in this bookcause they're like, yeah, it was fun,
Speaker 2: like five years for me. Yeah, it was like the
Speaker 2: best decade of my life, you know, the time I
Speaker 2: spent on this cult. That's more common than the bad cases,
Speaker 2: which doesn't mean they were again they were abusing and
Speaker 2: harassing people.
Speaker 4: A lot of people say that about their time at
Speaker 4: improv theaters.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it has that kind of improv wall of silence. Right.
Speaker 2: The then blue line as we call it, that's where
Speaker 2: that term comes from, is the Chicago School.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that comes from IOH.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So anyway, the seventies turns into the nineteen eighties,
Speaker 2: which everyone would agree was a mistake. Petty grows more
Speaker 2: and more vengeful and starts to get kind of increasingly aggressive.
Speaker 2: They move on from just mailing people or their family
Speaker 2: members sex stuff to like bombarding local media with graphic
Speaker 2: stories about like people's behavior when they have Again, this
Speaker 2: is why, because they're to some extent, See, I think
Speaker 2: some of it's him getting offended that people might not
Speaker 2: always want to follow his games, you know, and some
Speaker 2: of it's probably like cult leader defending himself whatever.
Speaker 3: Right, So it is there.
Speaker 4: Does it seem like by the eighties there is an
Speaker 4: element of like, he's just kind of unraveling.
Speaker 2: Not unrat he's getting more obsessed with control, Okay, right,
Speaker 2: that escalate. The more power you get as a cult leader,
Speaker 2: the more power you tend to take right up until
Speaker 2: there's a seriously push back. Yeah, this is the same
Speaker 2: way all of these people were, whether they become the
Speaker 2: president or run a weird little aslutely. No, no, I
Speaker 2: would never say that that's fucking hack as shit. I
Speaker 2: would say, maybe we should keep giving men like this power.
Speaker 3: See this time it'll work one more time?
Speaker 2: Well, we just need some nukes. If this guy had nukes,
Speaker 2: there wouldn't have been any problems. So yeah, I will
Speaker 2: say for for Petty's sake, I don't think his cult
Speaker 2: murdered anybody. That said it is very unclear how violent
Speaker 2: they got. Uh, several ex members were threatened directly. This
Speaker 2: is just beyond the weird sex stuff. From one police
Speaker 2: report that interviewed twenty one former members on their experience quote,
Speaker 2: they stated that the organization began as an alternative lifestyle
Speaker 2: in the nineteen sixties, and many of them became disenchanted
Speaker 2: with a quasi military order under the direct supervision of Petty.
Speaker 2: Many of the former members stated that they feared retribution
Speaker 2: from the Finders organization. In the case of Blank, she
Speaker 2: needed police intervention to stop the harassment of the Finders.
Speaker 2: In the Blank case, such and such property was burned
Speaker 2: down and remains an open arson. In the Blank case,
Speaker 2: members of the Finders attempted to infiltrate. And then there's
Speaker 2: about a whole sentence blanked out. I don't know what
Speaker 2: the fuck's going on there in sentence ends. In the
Speaker 2: United States, in general, all members of the Finders who
Speaker 2: had left the group felt that harm would come to
Speaker 2: them if they spoke out against Petty or his organization.
Speaker 6: So yeah, what what did they infiltrate? Also, I really
Speaker 6: want to know more about that Arson. Again, these are
Speaker 6: the cops, so you don't get a lot of that.
Speaker 6: It's like, wait, wait, what do you mean a house
Speaker 6: was burned down and remains an open our?
Speaker 2: Why? Like I wouldn't that seems like there should be
Speaker 2: more on that.
Speaker 3: Now I feel like I'm getting conspiratorial.
Speaker 4: Is there any way that, like, because of his connections
Speaker 4: through his wife question Mark, who is probably not alive
Speaker 4: at this point, that like he has any sort of
Speaker 4: shield or like institutional.
Speaker 3: Yeah, protecting.
Speaker 4: Yeah, like it seems it seems like not out of
Speaker 4: the question. This is so much redacted.
Speaker 2: There is some evidence that suggests that yes, okay, okay,
Speaker 2: maybe this is again. Part of why this is such
Speaker 2: a boon for the conspiracy community is that something there
Speaker 2: is a conspiracy here and we don't know all of
Speaker 2: the details of it, right, Something really shady is going
Speaker 2: on and the extent of it is unclear. I do
Speaker 2: get why people latch onto this fucking story.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, yeah, I mean that's a lot.
Speaker 4: I mean I know that it is not unusual at
Speaker 4: all for there to be stuff redacted. But it's like
Speaker 4: this feels like, you know, they're not operating really in
Speaker 4: a way that is advantageous to the state.
Speaker 3: So I don't understand what's.
Speaker 2: Weird to me about this because I've read through i
Speaker 2: don't know, like two hundred pages something like that of
Speaker 2: FBI files because all of them got released fairly recently
Speaker 2: on this case. And if I were an FBI agent
Speaker 2: trying to fuck with people by creating a case that
Speaker 2: was guaranteed to like have the biggest impact in the
Speaker 2: conspiracy community in my fanfic, you are, I would have
Speaker 2: redacted it exactly this way, Like this is the perfect way.
Speaker 2: You're giving them just enough, but like then cutting out
Speaker 2: just the piece that's going to like if I'm writing
Speaker 2: a fucking book and I want to like have a
Speaker 2: conspiracy like bits of like include little pieces of police
Speaker 2: reports and stuff to like make the true detective conspiracy case,
Speaker 2: this is how I redact it, right, Like it's it's
Speaker 2: so on the nose.
Speaker 4: God, yeah, this I understand why it's easy to fall
Speaker 4: down the water slide of like what the fuck is
Speaker 4: going on and why did they get away?
Speaker 3: With this for so long, like.
Speaker 2: People too far on the Finders. Yeah, but it is
Speaker 2: an Epstein style thing where I'm like, oh, yeah, I
Speaker 2: get way. It's you know, you're not irrational for being like, well,
Speaker 2: something's happening here and we don't know it, you know,
Speaker 2: right right, this is a fucked up case. Yeah, not
Speaker 2: in the same way Epstein is. But yeah, so again,
Speaker 2: definitely a fucking cult, but a fairly careful cult. You know,
Speaker 2: I wouldn't actually be surprised if that Arson was unrelated
Speaker 2: to the cult, just because it stands out. I don't
Speaker 2: see any of their allegations like that, And they go
Speaker 2: twenty years without any serious media or law enforcement attention,
Speaker 2: which suggests either most of their activities were benign or
Speaker 2: they were really good at keeping a lid on shit.
Speaker 7: You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe for some of the institutional backing we had,
Speaker 2: But they don't make a splash for a long.
Speaker 4: Time, which unfortunately, like that doesn't even move Yeah, that
Speaker 4: doesn't even move the needle a lot for me, because
Speaker 4: both of those are very like, feel plausible.
Speaker 2: You know what else is plausible? Jamie, Oh tell me, Robert,
Speaker 2: you to think about all the problems in your life.
Speaker 2: Every way in which your current existence doesn't match you know,
Speaker 2: your dreams for yourself, your beliefs of your own capability.
Speaker 2: Don't worry, Jamie, you got that in your heart.
Speaker 3: It was there anyways.
Speaker 2: Do you want to know how you can solve all
Speaker 2: of that and finally become the being that you were
Speaker 2: always meant to be by divinity?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 2: All you got to do. Hand your credit card over
Speaker 2: to whoever advertises next.
Speaker 3: Wow. I hope it's something bad for me.
Speaker 2: That's almost a guarantee, Jamie, and we're back. This is
Speaker 2: again a podcast sponsored entirely by convincing Jamie to pay
Speaker 2: money for scams.
Speaker 4: It is what Yeah, it's really Some people get into
Speaker 4: podcasting to make money. I'm getting into it to set
Speaker 4: it on fire and buy a lot of steel cups.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh, I sell her a Stanley cup every week
Speaker 2: every Yeah.
Speaker 3: I have them mounted on my wall, like something's wrong
Speaker 3: with me.
Speaker 2: See that's the This is one of those things where
Speaker 2: I get frustrated. There's this like thing on I think
Speaker 2: it's big on left Twitter if people like posting mostly
Speaker 2: white women's collections of Stanley cups, like the company that
Speaker 2: makes thermoses, and like being like wow, this is an
Speaker 2: insane thing. It's like, who gives a shit? I ultimately,
Speaker 2: like you have Funko pops or something, or like the
Speaker 2: thousand copies of the same old Marx book. It's fine,
Speaker 2: it's all the same deal.
Speaker 4: I just am curious why, because it's like there's all
Speaker 4: sorts of like bizarro collections that people like do that
Speaker 4: you could latch onto. I'm curious why, like Stanle, like
Speaker 4: why the cups are the ones that like.
Speaker 3: Twitter has picked up on. There's so many collections. I
Speaker 3: don't know. I have every bit of discourse around the cups.
Speaker 2: I'm just like enough, it's just twenty twenty four. If
Speaker 2: there is a well made product, there is a group
Speaker 2: of people who center more of their identity than is
Speaker 2: rational around it.
Speaker 1: And that's just the way it free cup you get
Speaker 1: if you're in the hospital.
Speaker 2: Yeah sure, yeah, I don't.
Speaker 3: I just I don't know.
Speaker 4: I've seen every ankle on the cup discourse and I
Speaker 4: was like, hmmm, ultimately.
Speaker 2: Even having a cup unless you're in a place where
Speaker 2: you can't carry a weapon and so you want to
Speaker 2: have something that you could bash someone's skulltash.
Speaker 3: A skull with a Stanley for.
Speaker 2: I have a similar cup that I only take out
Speaker 2: when I know I can't carry a gun somewhere. I
Speaker 2: have my fighting cup.
Speaker 4: I have one good cup, and Sophie gave it to
Speaker 4: me for my birthday a couple of years ago, and
Speaker 4: I use it every day.
Speaker 3: Yep, the end.
Speaker 2: I knew a lady when I lived in Guatemala who's tactic.
Speaker 2: She got mugged very badly once. Whenever she was going
Speaker 2: out on the town she would have a full bottle
Speaker 2: of wine with her. And she was like, because as
Speaker 2: an ex pat or whatever in a foreign city, you
Speaker 2: never look weird carrying a bottle of wine somewhere. But
Speaker 2: if you hit someone in the face with a bottle
Speaker 2: of wine, it tends to disrupt whatever they're doing, like
Speaker 2: pretty effectively. Like all right, that's that's not an unreasonable
Speaker 2: way to look at it.
Speaker 4: I like, I mean, in the best case scenario, you
Speaker 4: have a bottle of wine, like you kind of useless.
Speaker 4: I mean that I can really get behind that that reasoning.
Speaker 4: It's and and you know, women have to innovate.
Speaker 3: They just did.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 4: I believe in the Stanley cups is a weapon. I
Speaker 4: take I have no opinion on this round of discourse.
Speaker 4: I'm just excited for the new Ariana Grande album.
Speaker 2: Ladies, if you have a weird Stanley thing, this is
Speaker 2: your podcast. I think there's probably a lot of money
Speaker 2: in saying that, so that's why I'm saying it. Anyway.
Speaker 4: I think I think the real, the only real Stanley
Speaker 4: Cup I observe, is the one that comes out right
Speaker 4: after the Zamboni at the end of the season.
Speaker 3: That's the Stanley Cup that I like. Anyways, where are
Speaker 3: we talking about? What's the show?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 2: Man, you know this is We've gone too off to
Speaker 2: But I did hear from a friend recently that a
Speaker 2: hockey player killed a guy by cutting his throat with
Speaker 2: his skates on accident. Oh, come on, And that sounded
Speaker 2: like a thing that would happen in a movie. But
Speaker 2: it's real.
Speaker 3: So I was this like, I was like, I bet
Speaker 3: was this like a long time ago?
Speaker 2: No, I think it's pretty recently.
Speaker 4: It was recent, really, I was like, my dad, I'm
Speaker 4: sure they taught me about the guy skate energy, but
Speaker 4: it was a kill. I think my dad talked about
Speaker 4: like some eighties critical injury where that happened.
Speaker 2: This was a kill. This was a kill with the skates,
Speaker 2: so it works brutal anyway, occupational hazard. Yeah, back to
Speaker 2: the Finder's Cult. We know a few ex members made
Speaker 2: complaints to the police over the first twenty years or
Speaker 2: so of the cult, and there's a couple of reports
Speaker 2: you get from cops. After this all blows up into
Speaker 2: the big case that we're building towards where police officers
Speaker 2: in like the DC area would be like, yeah, we
Speaker 2: knew about him. They were weird.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 2: We kept trying to find a way to like arrest
Speaker 2: them all, but they weren't committing any crimes. It's a
Speaker 2: very they're all very cop quotes where they're like, yeah,
Speaker 2: we kept looking into them, but couldn't find any just
Speaker 2: justification to ruin their lives. So we just moved on.
Speaker 2: But we're really happy something finally happened because we knew
Speaker 2: they were weird. Got rain. Now, over the course of
Speaker 2: almost twenty years of existence, a number of children are
Speaker 2: born into the cult. They were raised communally, and they
Speaker 2: were known to tell interviewers when they were asked like
Speaker 2: who's your dad, and they would say, he's my dad,
Speaker 2: and he's my dad, and he's my dad, and that
Speaker 2: sounds like it could be fine. There's God no, thousands
Speaker 2: of cultures and societies over the course of human life
Speaker 2: where like that's the way it worked to some extent,
Speaker 2: in part because they did not fully understand the way
Speaker 2: genetic inheritance worked, and in part because like had different
Speaker 2: attitudes on monogamy and stuff like that kind of thing
Speaker 2: has been done. It's a way kids can be raised.
Speaker 2: That's not fully what's happening here, right, because the kids
Speaker 2: are told that, like, oh, all of the men here
Speaker 2: are your dads. But most of the men in the
Speaker 2: cult had no desire to raise those children, right, They're
Speaker 2: just being told by Perry, all of the kids are
Speaker 2: your responsibility, and they were like sure, I guess, and
Speaker 2: then didn't pay any attention to the children. So as
Speaker 2: a result, it was not uncommon for kids to kind
Speaker 2: of get neglected because the actual biological dad is being
Speaker 2: told all of the men are also their father, so
Speaker 2: it's like, well, I don't have to work as hard,
Speaker 2: and also all of the other men are like, well
Speaker 2: I didn't have that kid, I'm not going to take
Speaker 2: care of it.
Speaker 4: So God, yeah, whenever you hear stories, I mean, I
Speaker 4: think it's frequently cultpital. So it just like it takes
Speaker 4: a village logic, resulting in a whole herd of adults
Speaker 4: failing to take care of a child.
Speaker 3: So frustrating.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, there's like one of my favorite stories and
Speaker 2: I think I caught I think I read this in
Speaker 2: the book Sex at Dawn. Was this like indigenous group
Speaker 2: in I believe somewhere in South America where like and
Speaker 2: this is you know, we're talking about an older set
Speaker 2: of beliefs, but like their attitude was like, it's not
Speaker 2: children aren't made by like one father, right, Like, once
Speaker 2: you're pregnant, you like sleep with other guys who have
Speaker 2: skills that you like, can they all contribute to the kid?
Speaker 2: And the pragmatic result of this is that, like while
Speaker 2: this woman says that, like, well, these four men are
Speaker 2: the men who made that baby, and they're all responsible
Speaker 2: for taking care of the kids. So it's a it's
Speaker 2: an a strategy when you're dealing with like higher rates
Speaker 2: of mortality in the community. Right, the kid doesn't have
Speaker 2: one adult looking after him or two, it has like
Speaker 2: five or six. And that's functional very much not what's
Speaker 2: happening here.
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, yeah, and that also just sounds like building
Speaker 4: a video game character, not a I.
Speaker 2: Wish it worked that way.
Speaker 4: You're like, well, this guy is a you know, very
Speaker 4: like handy. Let me just go fuck a guy who.
Speaker 2: Is Yeah, and it's got a hammer. I'm gonna go
Speaker 2: fuck him real quick and really level up the kid.
Speaker 3: I wish it was like that. That would be great.
Speaker 4: You would be having this so much better, the greatest
Speaker 4: nine months of your life, just like creating super Soldiers.
Speaker 2: Just a crowd showing up outside of the Olympic village
Speaker 2: every four years.
Speaker 3: My god. Okay, well that's a I mean, that's a
Speaker 3: fun idea. I wish what is that?
Speaker 2: But the idea at least a good short story in that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, that's a George that's it. That's a George
Speaker 3: Saunders b side waiting to happen.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So kids in this cult are kept out of
Speaker 2: schools and given an eclectic education. It's one of those
Speaker 2: things where like it kind of depends when in the
Speaker 2: cult and like what adults you're around. Because they're in
Speaker 2: a couple of locations, some of those kids learn a
Speaker 2: lot of stuff, right, they're around really smart educated people
Speaker 2: who take it upon them to like train those kids.
Speaker 2: They hang out and like you know, helping to start
Speaker 2: these businesses or do these spying missions. I'm sure they
Speaker 2: learn a lot, and other kids run around on like
Speaker 2: a farm and don't learn how to read. Right. It's
Speaker 2: it's a mix of those things. Are all happening.
Speaker 3: What a beautiful uh gradient yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this will become meaningful later. But on one occasion,
Speaker 2: the cult slaughters a pair of goats, and like, oh,
Speaker 2: let the kids kind of help in that process, play
Speaker 2: around with the remains too.
Speaker 3: What is it with this group and remains?
Speaker 2: It's just I don't know, kids like kids like dead animals,
Speaker 2: you know. That's that's classic. That's why that famous gift.
Speaker 2: You get a kid, you know, a dead animal, bring
Speaker 2: them to a child in a room together. That's how
Speaker 2: parenting works.
Speaker 3: Kids like goo. Maybe that's what kids do, like goo.
Speaker 3: I liked you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, don't we all like goo? That's why Starship Troopers
Speaker 2: was such a such a hit.
Speaker 4: So.
Speaker 2: George George Petty, Maryon's son, would later give a description
Speaker 2: of the Colt's child rearing practices to The Washington Post.
Speaker 2: Quote he said, the lives of the children are unpleasant
Speaker 2: because group members rear them collectively frequently. Mary and Petty
Speaker 2: now sixty six would a sign a follower to a
Speaker 2: game or adventure overseas or in another city, and the
Speaker 2: group member would not see his children for months. George
Speaker 2: Petty said the group engaged in constant babysitting. I wouldn't
Speaker 2: want to be a child there without a reliable day in,
Speaker 2: day out parent. Figure. If the children found in the
Speaker 2: van in Florida, I bet you a buck, you'll find
Speaker 2: their biological mothers live in w Street. That's the occult's
Speaker 2: other location. And if they're not up there now, they're
Speaker 2: off on some adventure. This is later when those kids
Speaker 2: get found. As I open the episode, right, like he's saying, basically, Okay,
Speaker 2: these kids are neglected a lot. I don't think there ever,
Speaker 2: there's no goal to abuse them. They believe things because
Speaker 2: Petty has all these theories about child rearing that wind
Speaker 2: up not being great for these kids. But they're not
Speaker 2: like going out of their way to harm them, right,
Speaker 2: it's just the bad social experiment. Yeah, And again, like.
Speaker 4: The goal that is leading to these children being neglected
Speaker 4: is so mysterious, Like I just don't understand.
Speaker 2: I might not agree with that, Jamie, because like, oh,
Speaker 2: what I think is happening here. All these people is
Speaker 2: cult are raised between the twenties and the forties, not
Speaker 2: a famously great time for raising kids. A lot of problems,
Speaker 2: a lot of kids getting the shit beat out of them,
Speaker 2: very authoritarian education, or kids being pulled out of education
Speaker 2: to like make money, you know, for their families or
Speaker 2: they'll starve.
Speaker 4: Yeah, being enlisted, being forced into labor too young.
Speaker 2: Sure, and so I don't think it's unreasonable that these
Speaker 2: people are like, I bet there's a better way to
Speaker 2: raise kids. I think what's unreasonable is that they say,
Speaker 2: and we'll let this one guy decide what it is. Yeah, weirdo.
Speaker 2: That's where the problem comes in.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that is interesting. I've never heard of like alternative parenting,
Speaker 4: like i e. Semi abusive parenting techniques being framed in
Speaker 4: that way. That makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, this is what it is, right, Yeah.
Speaker 4: Right, Like, well this is it's almost like bad boyfriend
Speaker 4: logic where you're like, well, it's not what happened to
Speaker 4: the last time, so let's see if it works, and
Speaker 4: it's usually it usually doesn't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, might as well change it up. Yeah, So yeah,
Speaker 2: I had that article. That Washington Post article also includes
Speaker 2: some quotes from neighbors who visited the Petty family farm
Speaker 2: early in the Colt's life, and they this is like
Speaker 2: some random man on the street encounters towards how the
Speaker 2: Colt raised children that I found interesting. In the summer,
Speaker 2: neighbors saw as many as a dozen children at the farm.
Speaker 2: There was always hollering and screaming going on, said Wilma Richards.
Speaker 2: They were always hollering about mama and daddy. One time
Speaker 2: I heard one say I want milk. Another person said,
Speaker 2: shut up, you ain't gonna get ituck, and bad journalism there,
Speaker 2: because it's like, what was that a kid saying shut up,
Speaker 2: you ain't gonna get it, Because that does kind of
Speaker 2: sound like a kid being angry at another kid, or
Speaker 2: as any an adult saying fuck you you don't get milk,
Speaker 2: in which case that's a more abusive scenario. Right. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't know. Yeah, but you know, these kids, this
Speaker 2: is not I don't think the ideal way to raise kids.
Speaker 2: Just keeping them box to them a farm and not
Speaker 2: educating them.
Speaker 4: I'm going to bravely say I think they're doing a
Speaker 4: pretty horrible job of raising these kids.
Speaker 2: Not a good job with these kids. Yeah, although again,
Speaker 2: it's the same seventies. Is this worse than an average parent? Sure?
Speaker 2: Is this massively worse than a lot of people are doing. Well,
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 4: I I'm just I think they're doing a bad job.
Speaker 4: But they're doing in the context of like they're doing
Speaker 4: a different bad job than the previous generation. Because there's
Speaker 4: a wave of new parenting skit that ends up you know,
Speaker 4: fucking I don't know, We're just fucked.
Speaker 2: We're just fucking yeah, we're just fucked again. This is bad.
Speaker 2: It's not surprising. We all, I'm gonna guess everyone listening
Speaker 2: to this new kids were friends with kids whose parents
Speaker 2: took variations of this attitude, were like, we're different, we
Speaker 2: don't you know, watch over our kids, Like we're more
Speaker 2: we have this more enlightened attitude towards child rearing. But
Speaker 2: that was just a way of them justifying I don't
Speaker 2: pay any attention to my child, as opposed to actually
Speaker 2: trying to give them more freedom, which is good. Like
Speaker 2: parents who just like had no idea what was going
Speaker 2: on with their kids. You all knew that kid, we
Speaker 2: were all or you were that kid, right, Like, what
Speaker 2: I'm saying is that this is not great child rearing.
Speaker 2: But it's not weird right this, Sure, yeah, I'm.
Speaker 4: Going the same way that like, I don't know, I
Speaker 4: think about like growing up in like an age of
Speaker 4: like helicopter parenting, being on the come up and having
Speaker 4: some parents that like just were like, well I don't
Speaker 4: do that. I'm doing this brave new thing called not
Speaker 4: paying attention to my child at all.
Speaker 3: You're like, surely we can split the difference.
Speaker 2: Literally never met my child. Yeah. In nineteen eighty six,
Speaker 2: Petty had an idea for a new game. For reasons
Speaker 2: that are somewhat obscure to me, he ordered the membership
Speaker 2: to split into an all male and all female dwelling.
Speaker 2: Some women who lived independently were ordered to live separately
Speaker 2: from the men. The closest thing that I found to
Speaker 2: an explanation as to why they did this is that
Speaker 2: some of the women had complained that their baby daddies
Speaker 2: were using the Colt's attitude towards child rearing. It's an
Speaker 2: excuse to ignore their kids. So this is a kind
Speaker 2: of a mark. And the less abusive thing as like, yeah,
Speaker 2: they did this for a few years and like the
Speaker 2: men were ignoring the kids, so they change shit. Up,
Speaker 2: and the way they change it is Petty has all
Speaker 2: of the women move into separate apartments from the men.
Speaker 2: They live in a separate house and the men are
Speaker 2: living with the kids and taking care of them.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: He's basically saying, Okay, you men have been shirking your job.
Speaker 2: We're gonna cut the women out of it. They can
Speaker 2: all they're all gonna go off and have an adventure
Speaker 2: and you have to focus on raising the kids right now,
Speaker 2: which is again not misogynist. Now, no, is it a
Speaker 2: good idea for those kids? They're to put them with
Speaker 2: these guys, you don't know what they're doing. Maybe not.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's there's many things that are true here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's a complicated situation because it is like
Speaker 2: that is progressive from a gender standpoint, but also really
Speaker 2: not very responsible.
Speaker 4: But we gotta vet these dads. We just gotta bet
Speaker 4: these dads. We can't count on them learning on the
Speaker 4: job they need.
Speaker 2: Look again, it's not fair that like, because the women
Speaker 2: are the ones who have kept these kids from dying,
Speaker 2: they should have stayed involved in keeping them from dying.
Speaker 2: But you know, you probably should have had like training
Speaker 2: wheels on the guys, right that's all I'm saying.
Speaker 4: Yeah, No, I mean it's like the child rearing is
Speaker 4: always going to unfairly fall to women. That's something we
Speaker 4: all know. But it's also like if I'm leaving my
Speaker 4: child to a guy that doesn't know how to like exactly,
Speaker 4: you know, that's I think about like when my parents,
Speaker 4: I mean, and I love my family very much, but
Speaker 4: when my parents got divorced and my dad was like,
Speaker 4: my dad doesn't know how to do laundry, what are
Speaker 4: we gonna do?
Speaker 3: Like we're gonna die.
Speaker 2: I'm not making a general statement about like I'm not
Speaker 2: saying that like, ye, men should not be led. I'm
Speaker 2: saying that in this specific case, men can be as
Speaker 2: men had ignored these kids for years, and you shouldn't
Speaker 2: just give the kids to them without having someone there
Speaker 2: to make sure they know what they're doing. Right. Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's that's all I'm saying.
Speaker 3: Yes, I mean there's yeah, obviously there's there's good male parents.
Speaker 3: It's just not in this group.
Speaker 2: It doesn't sound, it doesn't seem like a lot of
Speaker 2: good ones in this group. Now, what the men are
Speaker 2: actually pretty good at, and I think the women too,
Speaker 2: is making money. And this is an interesting thing. I
Speaker 2: think this cult doesn't steal. Most of the money it
Speaker 2: gets from its members. Members when they join fold their
Speaker 2: finances into a big account. But there are a number
Speaker 2: of claims from members who are like, if you wanted
Speaker 2: to take your money out, you could, Nobody stopped you. Right.
Speaker 2: That will change eventually, but for the first like twenty
Speaker 2: years or so, it's like a big bank. And the
Speaker 2: money that people are putting in, they're starting businesses, and
Speaker 2: some of those businesses are pretty successful. And the idea,
Speaker 2: initially from Petty is that like the children that we're
Speaker 2: having and raising within the cult will inherit these businesses
Speaker 2: and they'll continue on our mission. It's never clear what
Speaker 2: the mission is, but like, that's the idea. We're pooling
Speaker 2: our resources starting business and then we'll make money that
Speaker 2: will pass on to these kids who are going to
Speaker 2: raise to be super enlightened, you know people. Right now,
Speaker 2: Petty obviously is not a guy with any experience running businesses,
Speaker 2: and he has no real interest in running businesses. A
Speaker 2: lot of what they do is like training people on computers.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of computer engineers and the finders, and
Speaker 2: Petty doesn't know any of that. Shit. So a lot
Speaker 2: of the management Jet tasks fell on the shoulders of
Speaker 2: Robert Toby Terrell, who writes the book that is a
Speaker 2: major source for a lot of our details on Marion's life.
Speaker 2: Terrell is a former IRS employee who became a venture
Speaker 2: capitalist and wound up owning an oil company. Like he's wealthy.
Speaker 4: See, I know anytime you throw a three name in there,
Speaker 4: something is about to go wrong.
Speaker 2: Toby's his nickname that he got in the cult. But yes,
Speaker 2: that does count. Yeah, So Perry's an early member. He
Speaker 2: joins in seventy one, and he abandons his family in
Speaker 2: ordered Like he's got a family, he's got a business,
Speaker 2: he's got like a house, and he just like meets
Speaker 2: this guy and leaves it all behind. He would later say, quote,
Speaker 2: I was looking for a more meaningful life. I had
Speaker 2: already made a pretty big pile of money, and I
Speaker 2: couldn't just go on making more. There wasn't really much
Speaker 2: point in that Petty offered a more personalized life, more
Speaker 2: community oriented, re establishing the kind of extended family that
Speaker 2: the human species evolved under. And I'm not one hundred
Speaker 2: percent clear did he like leave his kids and wife
Speaker 2: or like is he still involved in their life. It
Speaker 2: kind of sounds like, here's the fight it, here's your money.
Speaker 2: You've got some money. I'm going to go leave to
Speaker 2: be in a cult now.
Speaker 3: God, which for the for the right bad parents, could
Speaker 3: be a blessing.
Speaker 2: It could be huge.
Speaker 3: Honestly, I love what a problem just resolves itself like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So things are going pretty well by cult
Speaker 2: terms for the Finders right up until the end of
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty six. Now, the cult at this point has
Speaker 2: started looking at Tallahassee, Florida, as a possible place to
Speaker 2: expand their operations. It's neck colts in Florida go together like, well,
Speaker 2: there's nothing that goes together better than that, But it
Speaker 2: goes together well, they go together real good. Several adult
Speaker 2: male members then decide to drive down to Florida in
Speaker 2: a van to check out possible location. They're scoping out,
Speaker 2: like are we going to expand to here?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: And because of the aforementioned shifted child rearing that had occurred,
Speaker 2: they had a bunch of kids with them, Right, So
Speaker 2: you got two men in a van with a bunch
Speaker 2: of small children. Neither of those men know much about
Speaker 2: taking care of small children. They are feeding them a
Speaker 2: vegan diet. It sounds like which you can do with
Speaker 2: a little kid, but you need to be careful about
Speaker 2: it to make sure they're getting proper nutrition. And I
Speaker 2: don't think these men know much other than the hand
Speaker 2: a two year old a carrot.
Speaker 3: The optics are objectively bad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is not going to look good. I am
Speaker 2: not surprised that these guys attracted attention. So the gist
Speaker 2: of what happens next is that a group of two
Speaker 2: adult men in suits are spotted by some busybody in
Speaker 2: Florida with children who seem dirty. She gets angry and
Speaker 2: she reports them to the police because she's sure that
Speaker 2: something is wrong. The police are like, we're the police.
Speaker 2: The last thing we care about is anything fuck off.
Speaker 2: So she starts adding details, right, like, Okay, they don't
Speaker 2: care that these two men in suits are around a
Speaker 2: bunch of dirty kids. So she starts adding shit, and
Speaker 2: she's you know, the kind of Floridian lady who calls
Speaker 2: the police when she sees some men in suits that
Speaker 2: look like hippies.
Speaker 3: So she's, hey, don't limit that to Florida. There's a
Speaker 3: lot all over them.
Speaker 4: There's neighbor ladies all over this great nation, willing to
Speaker 4: call the cops for any reason.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is the late eighties, so the Satanic
Speaker 2: panic is in full swing right now. Right. So after
Speaker 2: a couple of phone calls, the cops don't bite. She
Speaker 2: starts folding in, claims that these people are Satanists, you know,
Speaker 2: to try to make them do something, okay, and I
Speaker 2: want to I'm going to read to you an excerpt
Speaker 2: from a police report on the arrest that happens after this,
Speaker 2: because it shows how kind of how much this woman
Speaker 2: who calls them really forces, how she's like building consciously
Speaker 2: building a story to force the cops to do something.
Speaker 2: In December of nineteen eighty six, the woman's name called
Speaker 2: the Intelligence Division and reported that she had information concerning
Speaker 2: a call operating in the District of Columbia. Blank was
Speaker 2: advised the Detective Blank of this office handle Colt investigations
Speaker 2: and was currently out of town, but would contact her
Speaker 2: after his return. She was contacted in late December by
Speaker 2: Detective Blank by telephone and advised that she wished to
Speaker 2: be interviewed concerning this cult Detective Blank and Detective Blank
Speaker 2: of the Maryland Park Police. She claims to these guys
Speaker 2: that a section of the cult was operating in Maryland.
Speaker 2: They interview her at her residence and she says that
Speaker 2: like yeah, now, after you know, making her initial call,
Speaker 2: she starts claiming that like, oh, these guys actually tried
Speaker 2: to bring me into the cult and they tried to
Speaker 2: recruit me. And the police are like, well, that's interesting,
Speaker 2: but that's still there's nothing illegal with trying to get
Speaker 2: someone to join a cult, so call back when you
Speaker 2: have more. So in January of eighty seven, the next month,
Speaker 2: she calls back again, being like, Okay, these guys are Satanists.
Speaker 2: I'm aware that they're Satanists. And the detective, to his credit,
Speaker 2: is like, well, that's still not a crime. But then
Speaker 2: he's like wow, yeah, base police, base base police. But
Speaker 2: he is interested, like I want to figure out what's happening.
Speaker 2: So he like calls another detective and is like, let's
Speaker 2: keep in the loop about this in case something happens.
Speaker 2: And so there's like there's some interest in the police
Speaker 2: about these guys. And they get yet another call on
Speaker 2: February fourth, nineteen eighty seven, and decide to send some
Speaker 2: police out to check on the matter. Right, and the
Speaker 2: call comes in from someone in the neighborhood who sees like,
Speaker 2: there's these group of men dressed as a skabhand with
Speaker 2: a van full of dirty children. I call that woman
Speaker 2: a busybody because like she calls the police repeatedly over
Speaker 2: these guys and keeps kind of bugging them about it.
Speaker 4: Well, and I feel like there's an element of I mean,
Speaker 4: I could think of people like shitty neighbors throughout my
Speaker 4: life as well, who like, once the police engage with them,
Speaker 4: they feel, you know, they seem empowered to be like, oh,
Speaker 4: I'm a part of I'm a part of this, you know,
Speaker 4: and continue to engage it just sometimes like an increasingly
Speaker 4: nonsense ways.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. And it's also this is kind of the
Speaker 2: most important thing for me to note is that like,
Speaker 2: not everyone who lives in this neighborhood where these guys
Speaker 2: have their van and these kids sees anything sinister here.
Speaker 2: One of the articles I found sites a college professor
Speaker 2: who lived in the area, John Matthews, who is like, yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, there were like a close knit group of
Speaker 2: feminists who like to help people. They're not a cult,
Speaker 2: you know, people talk about them because of their lifestyle,
Speaker 2: but I think they're pretty harmless. So there's like not
Speaker 2: everyone there's like it seems to be this woman specifically
Speaker 2: thought something was wrong here. Now, to be fair to her,
Speaker 2: these kids do seem to be like dirty and perhaps
Speaker 2: not well cared for.
Speaker 3: Right, totally off base, She's not totally off base. There
Speaker 3: are wrong reasons, yeah, and it's.
Speaker 2: Weird that she like lies about Satanism. Basically maybe she
Speaker 2: believed it, like all, but like if you see kids
Speaker 2: that you think are being abused and the police repeatedly
Speaker 2: won't do anything, maybe that's the action you take.
Speaker 4: I don't know, yeah, I mean or or just I mean, like,
Speaker 4: given how low the bar was to believe somewhat was
Speaker 4: a Satanist in the eighties, I mean, who she could
Speaker 4: be going off of any number of faulty yard six there.
Speaker 2: So, finally, February fourth, after repeated calls, the police send
Speaker 2: a couple of officers to check on these guys, and
Speaker 2: they find two men living with six kids aged two
Speaker 2: to seven. The kids are described as being really dirty,
Speaker 2: they have a lot of bug bites. The cops I think,
Speaker 2: initially described them at least one cop that initially describes
Speaker 2: them as like malnourished. The van is kind of smelly.
Speaker 2: They seem to have been hyping up how like the
Speaker 2: fact that they were malnourished. Further reporting and like medical
Speaker 2: investigation did not show the kids were in like bad health.
Speaker 2: And like one of the officers who responds as a woman,
Speaker 2: and she actually kind of pushes back at the idea
Speaker 2: that the kids were particularly dirty because all of the
Speaker 2: news reports when this blows up, are like the children
Speaker 2: uncared for in the back of a van, And this
Speaker 2: lady officer is like, my first impression is that they
Speaker 2: were dirty, but I would not say they were unusually
Speaker 2: dirty for kids, right, Like, yeah, they're kind of like gross,
Speaker 2: but that's children, you know.
Speaker 3: Interesting. I still don't know where to where to lay out.
Speaker 7: Because it's just such a yeah, it's such a fraud issue,
Speaker 7: and it's like anyone could everyone sounds like they're a
Speaker 7: degree of right right situation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's that, And I think that is kind
Speaker 2: of where we are, because like I actually can't blame
Speaker 2: the police for being like, all right, well, there's this
Speaker 2: lady really concerned that these kids are being mistreated and
Speaker 2: they're dirty. We should probably check in and like negligy.
Speaker 3: To do nothing. It's like the police to do nothing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's check in on this, right, And so they
Speaker 2: do and they find, you know, one of the men
Speaker 2: is the biological father of one of the children. The
Speaker 2: other guy has nothing to do biologically with any of
Speaker 2: the kids, none of their other parents, but he.
Speaker 4: Had sex with the pregnant woman and thinks that that
Speaker 4: would make one of these kids good at basketball.
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, it's good stuff. One of the office, the
Speaker 2: responding female officer, wrote this in her report. This writer
Speaker 2: spoke to suspect one, who stated that he and Suspect
Speaker 2: two were teachers from Washington, DC and they were en
Speaker 2: route to Mexico with the children. Suspect one stated that
Speaker 2: they were going to Mexico to set up a school
Speaker 2: for brilliant children. When asked about the parents of the children,
Speaker 2: Suspect one became very evasive and stated that the children's
Speaker 2: parents were in Washington, d C. So this is the lie,
Speaker 2: and it will later come out that Petty had told
Speaker 2: them that if the cops ask you why you're driving
Speaker 2: around these kids, say you're taking them to Mexico to
Speaker 2: start a school for geniuses. Like that's that's his lie
Speaker 2: that he comes up with to tell the cops you're
Speaker 2: taking these other people's kids to Mexico to make a
Speaker 2: baby Harbor.
Speaker 4: That is like crime, mad libs. So funny, that's escaping
Speaker 4: the country mad libs.
Speaker 2: Because if you just said, like, yeah, we're watching some friends' kids.
Speaker 2: You know, we're all about to move down here, we're
Speaker 2: looking for a house, like cops probably believe. But you're like,
Speaker 2: we're taking them to Mexico to make baby Harvard. Well, yeah,
Speaker 2: of course you're getting arrested now if that's clearly sex
Speaker 2: criminal stuff.
Speaker 7: Jesus Okay, So so there.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's like, are they I don't know why.
Speaker 3: I'm trying to understand why they would say this.
Speaker 4: Everyone's been behaving weird for two decades and this is
Speaker 4: the first time people seem to care it's happening.
Speaker 3: Uh, baby Harvard. That is just that's just a step
Speaker 3: too far. We have to draw the line of baby Harvard,
Speaker 3: says the police.
Speaker 2: I'm always saying that, and so are the police.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And you know what else the police are saying, Jamie,
Speaker 2: Oh no, don't buy the products that support this podcast.
Speaker 2: We the police hate them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, perfect crime. Well I just took my wallet out.
Speaker 2: My wallet's never been in my pants even once.
Speaker 3: Let's not think too deep into the optics of that.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Uh huh, Okay.
Speaker 3: I actually don't have a wall.
Speaker 4: Yes, I just keep my cards loose in my pants.
Speaker 2: Ah, we're back and pretending I didn't say the thing
Speaker 2: that we believed out of the podcast. So the cops
Speaker 2: are talking to these people. The Finders members come up
Speaker 2: with their brilliant lie written by Petty that they're just
Speaker 2: taking these kids to Mexico. The police are like, where
Speaker 2: are their mothers? And so the men tell the lie
Speaker 2: that Petty had told them to say, which is that
Speaker 2: they're being weaned off of their mothers. Again, every bit
Speaker 2: of this is like exactly what you would say if
Speaker 2: you wanted the police to think your sex criminals.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it really is a masterclass and what not to
Speaker 4: say in a situation where I think that they are being.
Speaker 3: Set up to get away with it whatever it is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that or Petty wanted to create a conspiracy theory,
Speaker 2: and so he sent these guys off to get in trouble.
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know. So the officers at
Speaker 2: this point decide to arrest these guys on suspicion of
Speaker 2: child abuse, not necessarily unreasonable given what they've been told. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I just you have to say it. And it's particularly
Speaker 2: reasonable because they're they're doing this so that they can
Speaker 2: have medical professionals talk to and inspect the kids. Right,
Speaker 2: Are they malnourished, Have they been beaten? Have they been molested?
Speaker 2: That's pretty important to know given everything that's happened here.
Speaker 2: And so they tell the men like, you're under arrest
Speaker 2: on suspicion of child abuse. And one of the men
Speaker 2: pretends to faint. And this is the police officer describing it.
Speaker 2: The guy just did a fake faint. I've seen it
Speaker 2: several times. Women are real good at doing it. Usually
Speaker 2: when a guy really faints, you don't ben the knees.
Speaker 2: This guy did the Scarlett O'Hara thing. I checked him.
Speaker 2: I looked at his eyes to make sure he wasn't
Speaker 2: diabetic or something. I said, get up, I know you're
Speaker 2: faking this mess. And he wouldn't get up. It was
Speaker 2: like a child playing, like when you go to check
Speaker 2: if they're asleep at night.
Speaker 5: Do that.
Speaker 3: This cult is not finding very strong soldiers.
Speaker 4: Oh no, they're just like you.
Speaker 3: Oh, my stars and stripes, I'm being accused of what.
Speaker 2: Like POWD molestation.
Speaker 3: This is just it.
Speaker 4: Oh god, everyone in this scenario is flopping. Let's get
Speaker 4: these kids out of here, away from the police, away
Speaker 4: from these guys.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, let's do it. Eh. So, while this is
Speaker 2: all happening, this guy's fake fainting, the cops are doing
Speaker 2: their arrest thing. A group of local teens sees the
Speaker 2: commotion and one runs home to get their video camera,
Speaker 2: returning just in time to film the arrest. It became
Speaker 2: a local story, and people tipped off the news who
Speaker 2: immediately jumped on a possible tale of a pedophile van
Speaker 2: because the initial complaint from that woman said they were Satanists.
Speaker 2: That's what came out in some of the first coverage
Speaker 2: of the event, and the story snowballed from there. The
Speaker 2: fact that fired everybody up and ensured this became a
Speaker 2: media circus was that a police spokesman had stated at
Speaker 2: a press conference that quote, physical examination showed sexual abuse
Speaker 2: to one of the children. Now, this is extremely serious.
Speaker 2: Allegations do not get much worse than that, right, and
Speaker 2: that is a serious thing. If a child was found
Speaker 2: who have been sexually abused, whether or not that's the
Speaker 2: whole cult or one guy in it who was given
Speaker 2: like control over children because of Petty's weird game. Either way,
Speaker 2: serious problem, right, and much of the reputation of the
Speaker 2: finders of why they're part of conspiracy theory centers around
Speaker 2: this statement. Right, that specifically one of these children was
Speaker 2: found who have been abused. Here's the problem. That is
Speaker 2: not an accurate statement based on what the cops had
Speaker 2: been told at that point. Now, Okay, in this case,
Speaker 2: it's not fully their fault because a Health in Human
Speaker 2: Services caseworker had told a police officer that two of
Speaker 2: the children were confirmed sexual assault victims. Now, a couple
Speaker 2: of things here. Number one, that means the police are
Speaker 2: still wrong because they said that one shelf had been abused,
Speaker 2: and they were told by the Health and Human Services
Speaker 2: re up that two children had been But also the
Speaker 2: Health and Human Services representative had not been told that
Speaker 2: a child was a confirmed sexual assault victim. That was
Speaker 2: also a lie to the police, not a lie, a
Speaker 2: misstatement at the very least, it's unclear as to why
Speaker 2: that misstatement was made. But I'm going to quote from
Speaker 2: reporter John Cohen here. Okay, the doctor's dictation, the doctor
Speaker 2: who inspected the kids transcribed the day after the exam
Speaker 2: cautiously described possible sexual abuse of one boy and one girl.
Speaker 2: He described abnormal characteristics of one girl's hymen and one
Speaker 2: boy's anus that might be evidence of assault, but we're
Speaker 2: not diagnostic of it. In other words, the doctor did
Speaker 2: his job. He looked at these kids, and he found
Speaker 2: two kids who had physical symptoms that might have been
Speaker 2: the result of past sexual abuse. But here's the thing.
Speaker 2: You know, the hymen, we know that, like that is
Speaker 2: a thing that can be broken when somebody with a
Speaker 2: vagina loses their virginity. But like horseback riding.
Speaker 4: You, yeah, it's like you could go Jamis Dowell and
Speaker 4: break it on a bike seat.
Speaker 2: Yeah, on a bike seat, very painful. Likewise, this boy
Speaker 2: there were characteristics of irritation in his anus that sometimes
Speaker 2: are evidence of past of sexual abuse. But also like
Speaker 2: if you have diarrhea, because like the guys watching you
Speaker 2: are like feeding you old vegetables and like don't not
Speaker 2: not really giving you a good diet, perhaps your aanus
Speaker 2: becomes irritated. Right, it's not diagnostic.
Speaker 4: We don't know sure, and I hate that, like we
Speaker 4: have to get into like the what about ism of
Speaker 4: like determining what constitutes child abuse and like all it's
Speaker 4: just so I don't know, and especially in the during
Speaker 4: this era with the Satanic panic, there's like just a
Speaker 4: whole history of sensationalism and and that goes through the
Speaker 4: quan On era. That just it just makes it makes
Speaker 4: me so mad because it just like cases like this
Speaker 4: lead to like real act like actual allegations being completely
Speaker 4: blown off, and like that's why these movements are so
Speaker 4: counter intuitive to actually, I mean, I know, I'm like
Speaker 4: a broken record with this shit. It's just it's so
Speaker 4: unbelievably frustrating that it's like you have to get that
Speaker 4: granular to you know, make sure that these children are
Speaker 4: actually safe without empowering a fucking cult that they like.
Speaker 8: It's just yeah, it's it's very frustrating because like what
Speaker 8: the doctor has done here is his job, which is like, yeah,
Speaker 8: we should look into what's happening to these kids more
Speaker 8: because this could be evidence of sexual abuse, which is
Speaker 8: a responsible thing to say a health in Human Services
Speaker 8: rep here's that and then just says, yep, we've confirmed
Speaker 8: two kids were raped.
Speaker 2: And then the cops say, yep, we've confirmed one kid
Speaker 2: was raped. It's just this like this chain of every
Speaker 2: adult but the doctor in this situation just being dipshits.
Speaker 2: And as a result, suddenly the news comes out and
Speaker 2: America believes these men were caught taking kids to Mexico
Speaker 2: and molesting them, Right, and then that's confirmed we know that, right,
Speaker 2: which is not the case? Now? Is this evidence of
Speaker 2: abuse or neglect? Definitely neglect. I think we definitely have
Speaker 2: neglect here, right, Absolutely, that's clear. Maybe even abuse would
Speaker 2: not be impossible that one or both of the men
Speaker 2: traveling with these kids did something fucked up too, But
Speaker 2: they will be found innocent.
Speaker 3: Well and because well.
Speaker 4: And that sounds like it's completely because of how incompetent
Speaker 4: the investigation is.
Speaker 2: Yes, so you know, I would say you should probably
Speaker 2: investigate further when something you know, like this happens before
Speaker 2: you talk to the press. But the police just go
Speaker 2: to the press and say, yep, we've confirmed a kid
Speaker 2: was raped, and the press is off to the races.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna quote here from that city paper article. The
Speaker 2: Miami Herald and Washington Post ran page one stories three
Speaker 2: days in a row. The stated New York Times reported
Speaker 2: that some have described the finders as bizarre cult of
Speaker 2: devil worshippers. Everyone got it on the Act, Connie Chung,
Speaker 2: Larry King, CNN, even the BBC, and like that's so
Speaker 2: from the New York Times. That's such a fucking New
Speaker 2: York Times thing to be like, well, there's no evidence
Speaker 2: of anything yet, just a very unclear case. But some
Speaker 2: random lady in Florida said they're Satanists. So let's just
Speaker 2: say some have described them as a cult of devil worshippers.
Speaker 3: Are talking about Yeah, do the.
Speaker 2: People say know anything?
Speaker 4: No, but it's just like the most like satanic panic sensational.
Speaker 3: I mean that still continues, but that's yeah, and it's like.
Speaker 4: For what this is Like this sounds like the first
Speaker 4: time in media at least where there is some purpose
Speaker 4: being ascribed to this cult, Like yeah, you know, they
Speaker 4: maybe they were relieved to find out that they were
Speaker 4: evil Satanist because they're like, we're not really sure what
Speaker 4: we were supposed.
Speaker 3: To be doing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's uh, we just let.
Speaker 4: This grave robbing child like gamify our lives for some reason.
Speaker 4: And now we're starting Baby.
Speaker 2: Harvard to be to be a conspiracy here. Again, it's
Speaker 2: not beyond possibility that Petty was the one who orchestrated
Speaker 2: the call to the police because he wanted to create
Speaker 2: a media circus, Like that's not impossible. I don't have
Speaker 2: any evidence for it, but he he's going to send
Speaker 2: once the press gets on this. He has some members
Speaker 2: of the finders give statements to the media that are
Speaker 2: like purposefully crazy or bizarre, like usually not just like
Speaker 2: like unhinged, but like weird in a way that will
Speaker 2: make people more suspicious because it's part of a game
Speaker 2: to him, like these women's six women's children have been
Speaker 2: taken into custody, or multiple women's children because I think
Speaker 2: one of them had two have been taken into custody
Speaker 2: and are wards of the state for a period of weeks.
Speaker 2: Their mothers can't take them home. And he's like, I'm
Speaker 2: a Mary Pranks to let's keep fucking with the press.
Speaker 2: We'll give the police conflicting statements. Ha, what fun this
Speaker 2: all is. As these moms are like losing their minds
Speaker 2: because their kids are locked away from them.
Speaker 3: It's their fucking kids.
Speaker 4: And then also that it makes it clear that like
Speaker 4: to whatever degree this neglect or abuse is happening, he
Speaker 4: doesn't give a shit.
Speaker 3: He's like couseplaying as like the fucking lobotomy joke.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, like Jamie, I'm not a great person. Do
Speaker 2: I think it sounds fun to convince the police that
Speaker 2: you're like running some sort of satanic conspiracy. Of course,
Speaker 2: but once children get taken by the State of Florida,
Speaker 2: it's time to stop playing.
Speaker 3: If you don't want children in the clutches of the
Speaker 3: State of Florida.
Speaker 2: That's even worse than these guys watching them.
Speaker 3: Right, the situation keeps getting worse.
Speaker 2: Uh, it is very funny. The police are clearly like
Speaker 2: just thrilled that they're getting all this attention. There's like
Speaker 2: quotes from police officials about like I'm gonna be on
Speaker 2: Connie Chung hot Dog, so like, yeah, you won't be
Speaker 2: surprised to hear that. Like, as this becomes a huge
Speaker 2: media thing, the police who'd kind of been like, let's
Speaker 2: figure out what's happening. It's not super clear what's going on.
Speaker 2: Let's do an investigation aer immediately, Like all right, it
Speaker 2: is time to carry out a series of raids across
Speaker 2: the country on every property these people own, because you know,
Speaker 2: this might be this could be a career maker, right
Speaker 2: if this is a devil sex cult thing, we could
Speaker 2: really do well by getting big on this stuff. And
Speaker 2: you know, so a series of raids are launched, the
Speaker 2: police start going after finders' properties, you know, up in
Speaker 2: the northeast around the DC area, and because these kids
Speaker 2: have crossed state lines and there's allegations at least there's
Speaker 2: some sort of child trafficking going on, that's interstate commerce.
Speaker 2: And when interstate commerce gets involved, that means that the
Speaker 2: FEDS who are going to get involved are the Customs Department, right,
Speaker 2: So it's Customs that's carrying out a lot of these raids,
Speaker 2: and that's going to be a real problem because one
Speaker 2: of the customs agents who gets involved in this is
Speaker 2: a shall we say, conspiracy int and he's really gonna
Speaker 2: really gonna cause some fun for us in the next part.
Speaker 2: But Jamie, yes, that's all we've got for this week.
Speaker 2: I think there's gonna be one more.
Speaker 3: That's a lot, that's a lot more.
Speaker 2: Maybe two, but probably just one. But we'll get to
Speaker 2: that next week. This week, this we're done.
Speaker 4: This is a queasy This is this This is a
Speaker 4: fucking queasy one. Like there's so many, so many conversations
Speaker 4: we've had over the years are just straight up clearly bad.
Speaker 4: This one is like it feels. It doesn't feel like
Speaker 4: it happened thirty five years ago. It feels like it
Speaker 4: happened recently. Unfortunately, this stinks. I'll bravely say this stinks.
Speaker 2: Well that's good. I agree it does stink, but you
Speaker 2: know it doesn't stink. Jamie. What podcasts, particularly the podcast
Speaker 2: you're about to launch for us?
Speaker 3: It's true?
Speaker 2: Are you yeah? What are you doing on that podcast? Jamie?
Speaker 2: What are you gonna be doing?
Speaker 3: Thanks for the tea up.
Speaker 4: Well, I've got a new show coming out on cool
Speaker 4: Zone Media. Ever heard of it that you and Sophie
Speaker 4: are letting me make.
Speaker 3: It's called fifteen Minutes. It is about some of the.
Speaker 4: Most notorious, particularly main characters of the Internet, but the
Speaker 4: people who had a strong impression on people for one
Speaker 4: or two days, and we see where they're at, what
Speaker 4: happened to them, if they had impact on the world,
Speaker 4: and if they are upset that they are remembered, as
Speaker 4: for instance, thirty to fifty Faral Hogs guy who I
Speaker 4: intend to maybe get justice for.
Speaker 3: I don't know. We got to talk to him. But anyways,
Speaker 3: that comes out in.
Speaker 1: March, and Jamie, is that a weekly podcast.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah it is. And it's a weekly podcast.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because there's just so many of these motherfuckers.
Speaker 1: I often get asked, how do we get more Jamie
Speaker 1: Loftus and it's You're Greenland Weekly Dreaming Loftice podcast.
Speaker 4: You're welcome, Yes, and soon you'll never be asking that
Speaker 4: question again.
Speaker 3: You'll be asking could I have less? And how do
Speaker 3: I avoid? And I'm happy to help out there as well.
Speaker 2: Well, that's all a good time. Well, everybody that's going
Speaker 2: to do it for us here at Behind the Bastards
Speaker 2: this week, you know, until next week. If you start
Speaker 2: what might be some sort of sex cult or might
Speaker 2: just be basically D and D for you and your friends,
Speaker 2: don't let children get taken into custody by the State
Speaker 2: of Florida. It's not worth it.
Speaker 3: Just the thought, the one takeaway.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's where I am.
Speaker 7: Bhie.
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.
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