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Speaker 1: Also media.

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Speaker 2: I'm a p R A U X. You can spell

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Speaker 2: pro that way anyway. This is behind the Bastard's a podcast,

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Speaker 2: Bad People tell you all. I'm Robert Evans, and I'm

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Speaker 2: enjoying a beautiful day here in the Bay, in the

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Speaker 2: city of San Francisco, where I'm hanging out. Jamie. How

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Speaker 2: do you feel about San Francisco, Jamie Loft, this guest host.

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Speaker 3: I I look, here's what I'll say. Here's I did

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Speaker 3: nothing wrong.

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Speaker 4: Did I consider robbing a grave when I was you know, seven? Yes?

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Speaker 3: But live laugh learn.

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Speaker 4: I like San Francisco, which I'm saying mainly because I

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Speaker 4: have a show.

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Speaker 3: Coming up there at the beginning of February. So I'll

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Speaker 3: tell you what I really think about February. Yeah, I'll

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Speaker 3: tell you what I think about that. San Francisco truly

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Speaker 3: off off Mike, but for the public faicy purposes.

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Speaker 4: What a town, What doesn't freak me out at all?

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Speaker 2: What a place that didn't invite me to sketch Fest

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Speaker 2: this year? So I'm angry. But more importantly, Jamie, it's

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Speaker 2: a place where I suffered easily the greatest trauma of

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Speaker 2: my life. You know, do you know? You know Jaws.

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Speaker 2: You know Quint the shark hunter, who's who's yeah obviously, yeah,

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Speaker 2: the dead.

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Speaker 3: To the world, buncle to the world.

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Speaker 2: You know how his character's backstory is, this was a

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Speaker 2: real battle too. In World War Two. He was like

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Speaker 2: a navy man and his ship got sunk and everyone

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Speaker 2: but him got eaten by sharks. That's his backstory. And

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Speaker 2: then like a madman, the guy with the silver hair,

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Speaker 2: who's who's a lot of fun most of the time,

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Speaker 2: but he fought in the Pacific. And so there's that

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Speaker 2: one episode where those Japanese businessmen come in and he

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Speaker 2: gets real uncomfortable very quickly. This is my version of

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Speaker 2: that racism. Yeah, Roger Sterling, he gets traumatized. Right, I'm

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Speaker 2: telling you my story of the thing that traumatized me

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Speaker 2: and now has forever ruined me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: This we're getting heavy darting right off the gate. So

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Speaker 2: twenty eighteen, I go to Corgi Kan, which is where

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Speaker 2: all of the Corgi's in the Bay Area gather by

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Speaker 2: the beach and romp around. Several hundred Corgis.

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Speaker 4: Romp around and some would say start making plants starts.

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Speaker 2: Perhaps perhaps I can't speak to that because I was

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Speaker 2: being confronted with the worst thing that I've ever seen

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Speaker 2: that day, which is a makeshift sign outside of Corky

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Speaker 2: Khan that said welcome to sanfran Corgsco. Now, Jamie, I

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Speaker 2: wake up screaming when I think about how angry that

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Speaker 2: sign makes me. Like San Franciscorg was right there.

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Speaker 1: You've told this story on Mike before your story he traumatized, Sophie.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, god, yeah, this this did permanent damage to my psyche,

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Speaker 2: my soul, so my ability to trust and love people.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it wasn't the It wasn't the pun. It was

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Speaker 3: that the pun was wrong.

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Speaker 2: It was a bad pun. They picked the wrong pun.

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Speaker 2: That doesn't make any sense, Jamie. Well, if you wrote

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Speaker 2: that sign, and there's like a twenty percent chance you're

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Speaker 2: listening to this podcast right now, I will find you

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Speaker 2: and I will take my vengeance and.

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Speaker 1: Get it together.

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Speaker 2: If you tell this.

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Speaker 1: If you tell this story a third time, I will

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Speaker 1: fire you.

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Speaker 2: Huh. I'm never going to stop telling the story, So

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Speaker 2: you can't stop the signal. Speaking of the signal.

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Speaker 4: No, I need to call you out really quick because

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Speaker 4: you were able to describe an episode of Madmen in

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Speaker 4: detail to Sophie and myself and moments before we started recording,

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Speaker 4: needed to guess three separate times before correctly remembering the sport.

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Speaker 3: Tanya Harding play just a reminder that we just live

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Speaker 3: on different planets.

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Speaker 2: Can anyone tell the difference between a gymnast and a

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Speaker 2: skier a skater? She did one of the two. It's

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Speaker 2: they're the same thing.

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Speaker 3: And you know it's not. You're just trying to take

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Speaker 3: it's all.

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Speaker 2: It's all boring, you know why, Because there's there's one

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Speaker 2: actual sport, Jamie Loftus, and it is playing second edition

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Speaker 2: Shadow Run with your friends in nineteen ninety nine. Oh

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Speaker 2: my god, that's the one, the one real sport, Jamie.

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Speaker 4: I thought you were going to that's what the Greeks played.

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Speaker 1: I thought you were going to say it was Simon says,

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Speaker 1: and then you were going to do the podcast. Are

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Speaker 1: you going to do the podcast?

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Speaker 5: Now?

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Speaker 2: I am going to do the podcast.

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Speaker 4: Sport is what happens between periods at the hockey game.

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Speaker 3: The only real sport is the guy in the zamboni.

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Speaker 2: I don't disagree. I don't disagree.

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Speaker 3: Takes four and we'd cheer.

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Speaker 2: For We're back on the same page and now we

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Speaker 2: can actually get back on the same page by talking

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Speaker 2: about Mary and Petty and the Founders. Now, I'm a

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Speaker 2: pretty tolerant guy. I've I've lived in multiple communes. I've

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Speaker 2: stayed in several more communes, multiple countries, in fact of communes.

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Speaker 3: Call you a pretty tolerant guy. Yeah, I'm very flinch

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Speaker 3: What do you?

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Speaker 5: What do you?

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Speaker 2: How am I not tolerant? I don't know. I've got like,

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Speaker 2: I don't judge people except for that lady who made

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Speaker 2: the sign at the Corgi convention.

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Speaker 4: Listen to what Yeah, listen to what you just said

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Speaker 4: about the sign. Lady, listen to what you just said

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Speaker 4: about gymnasts or man.

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Speaker 2: I don't know who made the sign. Wow, that was

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Speaker 2: problematic of me. Anyway, let's move on. Correct. So so far,

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Speaker 2: nothing Petty or the Finders have done is like abusive, weird, questionable,

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Speaker 2: definitely destined to win badly. Right, when you're telling people

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Speaker 2: that they should hook up or have kids and how

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Speaker 2: they should raise them, it's only a matter of time

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Speaker 2: before that becomes a problem. But it hasn't been a

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Speaker 2: problem yet. Right, Here's where we get into the problems. Now,

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Speaker 2: what's what's interesting to me is that because the reputation

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Speaker 2: these guys have them on conspiracy nuts is this was

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Speaker 2: like an evil sex trafficking cult moving children across the country.

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Speaker 2: The counter argument by people who rightly are like, boy,

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Speaker 2: the Satanic panic was a real bad time is like, Eh,

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Speaker 2: they were weird, but it was pretty benign. That's not true.

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Speaker 2: This is definitely a cult, and they definitely abuse people

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Speaker 2: in really fucking weird ways. It's just not the ways

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Speaker 2: that they got famous for.

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Speaker 4: That's that's the QAnon way to identify an issue and

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Speaker 4: make a big deal about things that make no fucking sense.

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Speaker 3: Therefore a meaning they'll get away with shit forever.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, because there's there's and they did for a

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Speaker 2: long time. There's no evidence that the finders like sexually

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Speaker 2: trafficked children across you like fucking national boundaries or state

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Speaker 2: boundaries for that matter. But we do know for a

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Speaker 2: fact that they did the thing all cults do, which

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Speaker 2: is demand their members isolate themselves from their families and

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Speaker 2: then attack those families when they tried to inquire as

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Speaker 2: to whether or not their loved ones were okay. That

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Speaker 2: City Paper article by John Cohen includes an interview with

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Speaker 2: a man named David, whose brother joined the Finder's Cult

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Speaker 2: and then cut off contact with his family. David, as

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Speaker 2: you would, sends his brother a letter just being like, hey, man,

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Speaker 2: just wanted to make sure you're okay and this weird

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Speaker 2: group where you're pretending to be spies with your landlord,

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Speaker 2: you know, like not hard to see why he does this.

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Speaker 4: Anye Prime document or like any cult themed documentary, that's

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Speaker 4: always like one of the saddest parts when you see

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Speaker 4: the family member that's like, so, yeah, she moved in

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Speaker 4: with this lady who called herself mother God and I

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Speaker 4: don't and then she just.

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Speaker 2: Won that happy story though everyone got what they wanted

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Speaker 2: out of that one good lord. So David sends this

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Speaker 2: letter to his brother and he gets a response. It's

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Speaker 2: on the letterhead of a company that's like one of

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Speaker 2: the game projects for one of the members. Right, Petty

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Speaker 2: tells one guy, hey, make a company with this name,

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Speaker 2: and so the letter he gets a response on that

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Speaker 2: company's letterhead. But it's written by another cult member who's

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Speaker 2: basically Petty's secretary. And I'm going to quote from Cohen's

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Speaker 2: article here. The letter reads, this is to testify that

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Speaker 2: your son Douglas aka Ernest angel I Betterson Danny Propper.

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Speaker 2: Kenny Rodgers is a true master of the art of fucking.

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Speaker 2: The shape of his cock is unique, and he is

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Speaker 2: truly an artist at using it to give us the

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Speaker 2: most pleasure. The depth, the width, the heights. No other

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Speaker 2: man touches us this way. His hands have magic as

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Speaker 2: they stroke our slender limbs. And I'm not going to

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Speaker 2: continue reading that. Please, It's it's it's really, it's really,

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Speaker 2: it's like an extremely explicit letter word.

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Speaker 3: Read so much of that I.

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Speaker 2: Wanted because you shouldn't feel uncomfortable, right, which is like,

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Speaker 2: I don't know, just let me get to slender limbs.

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Speaker 3: Let me get to slender limbs and then I'll stop.

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Speaker 2: I didn't want to read moist. You know what comes

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Speaker 2: after moist in this letter, right, I don't have to say.

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Speaker 4: They're describing his dick like it's like a three story

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Speaker 4: apartment building like this.

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Speaker 2: Is this is you know how like the Church of

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Speaker 2: Scientology you speak out or like you leave or whatever,

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Speaker 2: and they have guys stalk you.

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Speaker 3: They'll poison your pets.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Like their version of this, which is like both

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Speaker 2: a lot less fucked up and also still not good,

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Speaker 2: is they will when your family members or whatnot, like

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Speaker 2: try to contact you or if you leave, they'll send

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Speaker 2: letters to your loved ones describing what sex with you

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Speaker 2: is like and sometimes showing pictures of you naked. Not

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Speaker 2: it's not blackmail because they're not asking for anything. They're well,

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Speaker 2: because they're yeah, so what I can tell. They're not

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Speaker 2: saying do anything or stop doing something. They're just like

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Speaker 2: make fucking with them, making them uncomfortable. It's weird and

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Speaker 2: it's definitely bad. I'm not saying it's not bad, but

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Speaker 2: I don't think there's like an exchange attempted.

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Speaker 3: I know that will it I don't know.

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Speaker 4: I feel like the discomfort is an exchange of sorts

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Speaker 4: where it's like, well, what is this person going to

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Speaker 4: do to make it stop? Like it's a weird, tacit

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Speaker 4: form of blackmail where it's they don't want an item,

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Speaker 4: but they want the behavior to change.

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Speaker 2: Look, I think that's probably fair. It is pretty unique.

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Speaker 2: I haven't heard about this being done to anyone and

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Speaker 2: all of the cults I've read about, and I find

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Speaker 2: that kind of interesting.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it just sounds like revenge, like proto revenge porn. Basically,

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Speaker 4: it is a little bit of that confusing.

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Speaker 2: It's it's definitely like a lot of bit of that,

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Speaker 2: although all of it there's not always pictures that exist, right,

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Speaker 2: some of it's just text. Yeah, I'm trying to square

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Speaker 2: myself with it because also some of the things I've read,

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Speaker 2: I don't know that everyone involved in the cult would

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Speaker 2: have thought of it. I think Petty sees this as

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Speaker 2: revenge porn and is using it that way. It seems

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Speaker 2: like a lot of the kind to the extent that

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Speaker 2: there's brainwashing. This is during that kind of like free

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Speaker 2: love period shit, Like all these people came out of

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Speaker 2: that movement, and I kind of think some of it

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Speaker 2: maybe we need to shock the normies because they shouldn't

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Speaker 2: feel uncomfortable and awkward about talking about sex this way.

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Speaker 2: You know, maybe this is our way of reaching them

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Speaker 2: and stuff like which is also bad and unhinged. But

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Speaker 2: I kind of get the feeling that's at least how

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Speaker 2: this is justified internally so they don't feel gross. We're

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Speaker 2: not just being abusive to these We're not trying to

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Speaker 2: hurt these people. Like, no one should have a problem

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Speaker 2: with this stuff, and if they can't take it, then

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Speaker 2: you know they need to mature. Is divine thinking beings

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Speaker 2: or whatever. I don't know. That's the feeling that I

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Speaker 2: get reading stuff here. It's very uncomfortable. Yeah, it's like

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Speaker 2: the letters are like they go on and on.

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Speaker 4: That's the intersection of a lot of disgusting tactics and

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Speaker 4: also like the sort of thing where it reminds me

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Speaker 4: of like hearing stories about and like stuff that I've

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Speaker 4: like of, like how how people can get away with

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Speaker 4: shit like that by not having a direct threat stated,

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Speaker 4: not asking for anything clear.

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Speaker 3: So you're like, well, what is legally actionable?

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Speaker 4: It's harassment, but like usually if you report harassment, all

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Speaker 4: the fuck all anyone will do is be like, well,

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Speaker 4: you call us back when they threaten to kill you.

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Speaker 3: Which a lot of people know better than do do.

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Speaker 2: Like, it's just also like with a lot of these cases,

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Speaker 2: like in the case of this guy's family member, it's

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Speaker 2: not harassment technically, right because he sent the letter first.

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Speaker 2: They're responding to a letter, so like, legally, even I'm

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Speaker 2: not again it's not good what they're doing. I'm saying legally,

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Speaker 2: I don't know that you would have a leg to

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Speaker 2: stand on if you tried to claim harassment, because they

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Speaker 2: are just responding to a letter in a fucked up way.

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Speaker 3: But that's why it feels like very I don't know.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it seems like it's pretty you know, like

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Speaker 4: this whole organization is pretty calculated to what end.

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Speaker 3: I still don't understand.

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Speaker 2: No one does, and you will not get an answer

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Speaker 2: to that question is.

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Speaker 4: No, because it is because it is if your goal

250
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Speaker 4: is to you know, be disgusting and scary in a

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Speaker 4: way that it's like there's not a direct way to

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Speaker 4: nail you for it.

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Speaker 3: Like that's what they're doing.

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Speaker 2: And I think, again, a cult is an organization made

255
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Speaker 2: up of multiple people, so you can have there be

256
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Speaker 2: multiple motivations for the same act that are independent of

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Speaker 2: each other. Petty, I think is doing this as a

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Speaker 2: way to maintain control, as a way to be aggressive,

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Speaker 2: to attack his enemies. I do believe based on what

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Speaker 2: I have read of them, most of his followers kind

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Speaker 2: of buy that, Well, we're trying this is about shocking.

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Speaker 2: The norm is for a purpose too. We're not trying

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Speaker 2: to shock these people to hurt them. There it's healthy

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Speaker 2: to not have hang ups about sex, and we're trying

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Speaker 2: to break through their unhealthy.

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Speaker 4: Like I again, that's a.

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Speaker 2: Good reason that is people make it pictures of their

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Speaker 2: loved ones. I'm saying I think that's how regular people

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Speaker 2: in the cult justify this.

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Speaker 4: And are we still in the seventies at this point,

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Speaker 4: because this all scans for Like, you guys are so

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Speaker 4: like this, why don't you want to see a picture

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Speaker 4: of your brother's dick.

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Speaker 2: You're like, yeah, you're so scared of your brother's huge

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Speaker 2: throbbing cock.

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Speaker 5: We're all humans, so you're like, oh, also especially in

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Speaker 5: his unique shape, like hmmmmmm mm hmm.

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Speaker 2: A big thing for them was like describing and they

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Speaker 2: don't just do it with penises. This are equal opportunity.

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Speaker 2: And to be fair, most of the people running the cult,

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Speaker 2: aside from Petty, are the women in the cult. That's

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Speaker 2: like universally agreed upon by former members that like, this

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Speaker 2: was not a misogynist cult. They would describe your sister's

284
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Speaker 2: body to you in a gross letter, but they do

285
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Speaker 2: the same for your brother, you know, so well.

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Speaker 3: Disgusting to anybody. Relax.

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Speaker 2: They are. They are described multiple times by the cops

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Speaker 2: and others as feminists, as specifically a cabal of famis

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Speaker 2: like its second wave.

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Speaker 3: Second wave second wave feminism. Uh, they're like, yeah, second

291
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Speaker 3: way feminism, you know, run a cult queen.

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Speaker 2: One of the things that that makes the Finders interesting

293
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Speaker 2: is they are they are the nexus point of a

294
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Speaker 2: whole bunch of shit, right, There's more than a little

295
00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:18,720
Speaker 2: signing on, like you know that that that like first

296
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Speaker 2: get out of Drugs program that turns into a cult

297
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Speaker 2: where they sit in a circle and scream at each

298
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Speaker 2: other and male people rattlesnakes. There's some of that in there.

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Speaker 2: There's a little bit of scientology in here. There's a

300
00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:33,200
Speaker 2: lot of Keith Ranieri in here. He's definitely and descended

301
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Speaker 2: from this guy. But there's also there's these really unique

302
00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:41,360
Speaker 2: aspects of like New age occultism and uh kind of

303
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Speaker 2: like like spy pulp novels from the sixties. Like it's

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Speaker 2: it's such an.

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Speaker 4: Odd different things going on like there, I don't know,

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Speaker 4: I mean, the hearing that women were meaningfully included in

307
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Speaker 4: this unfortunately, like especially in New Age culty movements like that,

308
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Speaker 4: it's like the perceived inclusivity that gets a lot of

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Speaker 4: people interested, I mean, and it's like that still happens

310
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Speaker 4: now on you know, whatever wa of feminism are on

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Speaker 4: final because we have like three years to live.

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Speaker 2: When we talk about like how a lot of really

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Speaker 2: educated and successful people are in this cult. For the

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Speaker 2: women who are that and in this cult, that's part

315
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Speaker 2: of what makes it make sense is that this is

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Speaker 2: a lot less misogynistic of an environment than the world

317
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Speaker 2: of the nineteen seventies, like the mainstream society, right, you

318
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Speaker 2: were ordering men around, you run things like you know,

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Speaker 2: that's a part of the appeal to some of the

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Speaker 2: people who find this thing, right, So.

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Speaker 4: They're like, Okay, so the cost of participation is I

322
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Speaker 4: might need to send someone a picture of their brothers dick.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and describe it in loving detail. Yeah, and they'll

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Speaker 2: do more than that, Jamie.

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Speaker 3: Sorry, you're right, I'm getting hung up on that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. This is from a Maryland police report based on

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Speaker 2: what happens once the story this cult explodes and they

328
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Speaker 2: talk to a bunch of former family members. I have

329
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Speaker 2: Blank interviewed all the family members who were willing to

330
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Speaker 2: talk specifically. They all stated that Blank, probably Petty, had

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Speaker 2: brainwashed their children and prevented any contact with either their

332
00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:13,400
Speaker 2: children or grandchildren. Members of the Finders, according to family members,

333
00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:16,679
Speaker 2: would stop any contact by sending letters describing explicit sexual

334
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Speaker 2: acts evolving current members, including photographs and drawings. In one case,

335
00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:23,800
Speaker 2: members of the Finders attempted to take over Blank family

336
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Speaker 2: residents and force Blank out of her home. We don't

337
00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:29,679
Speaker 2: get more than that, And I don't know, is this

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Speaker 2: armed men showing up to steal someone's house? Are they

339
00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:36,679
Speaker 2: pushing her out of a property? Cult? This detective sucks

340
00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:39,480
Speaker 2: by the way, he also can't spell their right. Yeah,

341
00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:41,639
Speaker 2: So we don't get any like I don't know, was

342
00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,439
Speaker 2: this some people showed up and like harassed her. Was

343
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Speaker 2: this like somebody called her on the phone and she

344
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:49,600
Speaker 2: felt uncomfortable and so she moved. It could really anything

345
00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:52,600
Speaker 2: could be kind of included in that it doesn't sound

346
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Speaker 2: like a thing that got handled by the police, and

347
00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:56,719
Speaker 2: so there's not a report on it.

348
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Speaker 3: I guess I'm not like completely shocked, but just like

349
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,480
Speaker 3: there seemed to be a number of critical moments in

350
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Speaker 3: this story where it's just unbelievably vague.

351
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Speaker 2: Was this the fun thing about the Finders, That's why

352
00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:13,880
Speaker 2: they're the center of so many conspiracy narratives, And.

353
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Speaker 4: So this like wasn't this wasn't like a story that

354
00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:19,400
Speaker 4: was that there was any like public interest in until the.

355
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Speaker 3: Eighties right, so they're kind of just operating. Okay. So

356
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Speaker 3: there's police records and cult.

357
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Speaker 4: Member records, two of the least possibly like reliable sources

358
00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:29,600
Speaker 4: you could ask wow, okay.

359
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Speaker 2: And one of the other things about it is so

360
00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:34,960
Speaker 2: there are a number of people who are abused significantly

361
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:37,040
Speaker 2: and harassed significantly by this cult. It does a lot

362
00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:39,880
Speaker 2: of ugly things. From what I can tell, most people

363
00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:42,720
Speaker 2: who are in it walk away even afterwards, with a

364
00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:45,919
Speaker 2: pretty good opinion of their time in it, which is

365
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,600
Speaker 2: why we don't know much because there's not a lot

366
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Speaker 2: of narratives. People didn't come out and be like, here's

367
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Speaker 2: what happened in this bookcause they're like, yeah, it was fun,

368
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Speaker 2: like five years for me. Yeah, it was like the

369
00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:56,399
Speaker 2: best decade of my life, you know, the time I

370
00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,720
Speaker 2: spent on this cult. That's more common than the bad cases,

371
00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:03,000
Speaker 2: which doesn't mean they were again they were abusing and

372
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Speaker 2: harassing people.

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Speaker 4: A lot of people say that about their time at

374
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Speaker 4: improv theaters.

375
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:11,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, it has that kind of improv wall of silence. Right.

376
00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:13,160
Speaker 2: The then blue line as we call it, that's where

377
00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:15,560
Speaker 2: that term comes from, is the Chicago School.

378
00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:18,879
Speaker 4: Yeah, that comes from IOH.

379
00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:25,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, So anyway, the seventies turns into the nineteen eighties,

380
00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,520
Speaker 2: which everyone would agree was a mistake. Petty grows more

381
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:32,720
Speaker 2: and more vengeful and starts to get kind of increasingly aggressive.

382
00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:36,080
Speaker 2: They move on from just mailing people or their family

383
00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:39,479
Speaker 2: members sex stuff to like bombarding local media with graphic

384
00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:42,600
Speaker 2: stories about like people's behavior when they have Again, this

385
00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:47,400
Speaker 2: is why, because they're to some extent, See, I think

386
00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:50,080
Speaker 2: some of it's him getting offended that people might not

387
00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:54,399
Speaker 2: always want to follow his games, you know, and some

388
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:58,280
Speaker 2: of it's probably like cult leader defending himself whatever.

389
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Speaker 3: Right, So it is there.

390
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,040
Speaker 4: Does it seem like by the eighties there is an

391
00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:05,320
Speaker 4: element of like, he's just kind of unraveling.

392
00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:11,880
Speaker 2: Not unrat he's getting more obsessed with control, Okay, right,

393
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,720
Speaker 2: that escalate. The more power you get as a cult leader,

394
00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:17,520
Speaker 2: the more power you tend to take right up until

395
00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,880
Speaker 2: there's a seriously push back. Yeah, this is the same

396
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:24,040
Speaker 2: way all of these people were, whether they become the

397
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:28,679
Speaker 2: president or run a weird little aslutely. No, no, I

398
00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:32,399
Speaker 2: would never say that that's fucking hack as shit. I

399
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:38,000
Speaker 2: would say, maybe we should keep giving men like this power.

400
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:41,080
Speaker 3: See this time it'll work one more time?

401
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:43,560
Speaker 2: Well, we just need some nukes. If this guy had nukes,

402
00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:46,600
Speaker 2: there wouldn't have been any problems. So yeah, I will

403
00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:48,960
Speaker 2: say for for Petty's sake, I don't think his cult

404
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:53,439
Speaker 2: murdered anybody. That said it is very unclear how violent

405
00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:57,399
Speaker 2: they got. Uh, several ex members were threatened directly. This

406
00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:01,320
Speaker 2: is just beyond the weird sex stuff. From one police

407
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:04,600
Speaker 2: report that interviewed twenty one former members on their experience quote,

408
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,760
Speaker 2: they stated that the organization began as an alternative lifestyle

409
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,360
Speaker 2: in the nineteen sixties, and many of them became disenchanted

410
00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:13,960
Speaker 2: with a quasi military order under the direct supervision of Petty.

411
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:16,879
Speaker 2: Many of the former members stated that they feared retribution

412
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:20,320
Speaker 2: from the Finders organization. In the case of Blank, she

413
00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:23,280
Speaker 2: needed police intervention to stop the harassment of the Finders.

414
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:27,280
Speaker 2: In the Blank case, such and such property was burned

415
00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:30,600
Speaker 2: down and remains an open arson. In the Blank case,

416
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:34,000
Speaker 2: members of the Finders attempted to infiltrate. And then there's

417
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:36,720
Speaker 2: about a whole sentence blanked out. I don't know what

418
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:39,760
Speaker 2: the fuck's going on there in sentence ends. In the

419
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 2: United States, in general, all members of the Finders who

420
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:44,639
Speaker 2: had left the group felt that harm would come to

421
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,080
Speaker 2: them if they spoke out against Petty or his organization.

422
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:52,240
Speaker 6: So yeah, what what did they infiltrate? Also, I really

423
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:54,480
Speaker 6: want to know more about that Arson. Again, these are

424
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:56,199
Speaker 6: the cops, so you don't get a lot of that.

425
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:58,440
Speaker 6: It's like, wait, wait, what do you mean a house

426
00:21:58,520 --> 00:21:59,879
Speaker 6: was burned down and remains an open our?

427
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:02,959
Speaker 2: Why? Like I wouldn't that seems like there should be

428
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:03,520
Speaker 2: more on that.

429
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,040
Speaker 3: Now I feel like I'm getting conspiratorial.

430
00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:09,080
Speaker 4: Is there any way that, like, because of his connections

431
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:12,600
Speaker 4: through his wife question Mark, who is probably not alive

432
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:14,720
Speaker 4: at this point, that like he has any sort of

433
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,400
Speaker 4: shield or like institutional.

434
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:17,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, protecting.

435
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, like it seems it seems like not out of

436
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:22,960
Speaker 4: the question. This is so much redacted.

437
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:26,480
Speaker 2: There is some evidence that suggests that yes, okay, okay,

438
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 2: maybe this is again. Part of why this is such

439
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,920
Speaker 2: a boon for the conspiracy community is that something there

440
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,040
Speaker 2: is a conspiracy here and we don't know all of

441
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:40,639
Speaker 2: the details of it, right, Something really shady is going

442
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,320
Speaker 2: on and the extent of it is unclear. I do

443
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 2: get why people latch onto this fucking story.

444
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, yeah, I mean that's a lot.

445
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 4: I mean I know that it is not unusual at

446
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 4: all for there to be stuff redacted. But it's like

447
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 4: this feels like, you know, they're not operating really in

448
00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:58,280
Speaker 4: a way that is advantageous to the state.

449
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:00,399
Speaker 3: So I don't understand what's.

450
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:02,200
Speaker 2: Weird to me about this because I've read through i

451
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:05,399
Speaker 2: don't know, like two hundred pages something like that of

452
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,640
Speaker 2: FBI files because all of them got released fairly recently

453
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:14,679
Speaker 2: on this case. And if I were an FBI agent

454
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,359
Speaker 2: trying to fuck with people by creating a case that

455
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 2: was guaranteed to like have the biggest impact in the

456
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,679
Speaker 2: conspiracy community in my fanfic, you are, I would have

457
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,920
Speaker 2: redacted it exactly this way, Like this is the perfect way.

458
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,639
Speaker 2: You're giving them just enough, but like then cutting out

459
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 2: just the piece that's going to like if I'm writing

460
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 2: a fucking book and I want to like have a

461
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 2: conspiracy like bits of like include little pieces of police

462
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:41,720
Speaker 2: reports and stuff to like make the true detective conspiracy case,

463
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,400
Speaker 2: this is how I redact it, right, Like it's it's

464
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:45,800
Speaker 2: so on the nose.

465
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:51,400
Speaker 4: God, yeah, this I understand why it's easy to fall

466
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:54,359
Speaker 4: down the water slide of like what the fuck is

467
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:56,199
Speaker 4: going on and why did they get away?

468
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 3: With this for so long, like.

469
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 2: People too far on the Finders. Yeah, but it is

470
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:04,879
Speaker 2: an Epstein style thing where I'm like, oh, yeah, I

471
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,400
Speaker 2: get way. It's you know, you're not irrational for being like, well,

472
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 2: something's happening here and we don't know it, you know,

473
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,639
Speaker 2: right right, this is a fucked up case. Yeah, not

474
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 2: in the same way Epstein is. But yeah, so again,

475
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,680
Speaker 2: definitely a fucking cult, but a fairly careful cult. You know,

476
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 2: I wouldn't actually be surprised if that Arson was unrelated

477
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 2: to the cult, just because it stands out. I don't

478
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 2: see any of their allegations like that, And they go

479
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 2: twenty years without any serious media or law enforcement attention,

480
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 2: which suggests either most of their activities were benign or

481
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 2: they were really good at keeping a lid on shit.

482
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 7: You know.

483
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe for some of the institutional backing we had,

484
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 2: But they don't make a splash for a long.

485
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 4: Time, which unfortunately, like that doesn't even move Yeah, that

486
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:53,640
Speaker 4: doesn't even move the needle a lot for me, because

487
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:55,879
Speaker 4: both of those are very like, feel plausible.

488
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,679
Speaker 2: You know what else is plausible? Jamie, Oh tell me, Robert,

489
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 2: you to think about all the problems in your life.

490
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 2: Every way in which your current existence doesn't match you know,

491
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 2: your dreams for yourself, your beliefs of your own capability.

492
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 2: Don't worry, Jamie, you got that in your heart.

493
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:12,440
Speaker 3: It was there anyways.

494
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 2: Do you want to know how you can solve all

495
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 2: of that and finally become the being that you were

496
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 2: always meant to be by divinity?

497
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:20,640
Speaker 4: Yes?

498
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 2: All you got to do. Hand your credit card over

499
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 2: to whoever advertises next.

500
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,679
Speaker 3: Wow. I hope it's something bad for me.

501
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 2: That's almost a guarantee, Jamie, and we're back. This is

502
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 2: again a podcast sponsored entirely by convincing Jamie to pay

503
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 2: money for scams.

504
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,400
Speaker 4: It is what Yeah, it's really Some people get into

505
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,880
Speaker 4: podcasting to make money. I'm getting into it to set

506
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,360
Speaker 4: it on fire and buy a lot of steel cups.

507
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh, I sell her a Stanley cup every week

508
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:00,440
Speaker 2: every Yeah.

509
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 3: I have them mounted on my wall, like something's wrong

510
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 3: with me.

511
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:06,360
Speaker 2: See that's the This is one of those things where

512
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 2: I get frustrated. There's this like thing on I think

513
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 2: it's big on left Twitter if people like posting mostly

514
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,479
Speaker 2: white women's collections of Stanley cups, like the company that

515
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,879
Speaker 2: makes thermoses, and like being like wow, this is an

516
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 2: insane thing. It's like, who gives a shit? I ultimately,

517
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 2: like you have Funko pops or something, or like the

518
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 2: thousand copies of the same old Marx book. It's fine,

519
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 2: it's all the same deal.

520
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 4: I just am curious why, because it's like there's all

521
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:36,719
Speaker 4: sorts of like bizarro collections that people like do that

522
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 4: you could latch onto. I'm curious why, like Stanle, like

523
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 4: why the cups are the ones that like.

524
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 3: Twitter has picked up on. There's so many collections. I

525
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 3: don't know. I have every bit of discourse around the cups.

526
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,400
Speaker 2: I'm just like enough, it's just twenty twenty four. If

527
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 2: there is a well made product, there is a group

528
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 2: of people who center more of their identity than is

529
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:00,080
Speaker 2: rational around it.

530
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: And that's just the way it free cup you get

531
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 1: if you're in the hospital.

532
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,640
Speaker 2: Yeah sure, yeah, I don't.

533
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 3: I just I don't know.

534
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:12,159
Speaker 4: I've seen every ankle on the cup discourse and I

535
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,400
Speaker 4: was like, hmmm, ultimately.

536
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 2: Even having a cup unless you're in a place where

537
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 2: you can't carry a weapon and so you want to

538
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 2: have something that you could bash someone's skulltash.

539
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 3: A skull with a Stanley for.

540
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 2: I have a similar cup that I only take out

541
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 2: when I know I can't carry a gun somewhere. I

542
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 2: have my fighting cup.

543
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,439
Speaker 4: I have one good cup, and Sophie gave it to

544
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:37,679
Speaker 4: me for my birthday a couple of years ago, and

545
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:39,200
Speaker 4: I use it every day.

546
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 3: Yep, the end.

547
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 2: I knew a lady when I lived in Guatemala who's tactic.

548
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:48,680
Speaker 2: She got mugged very badly once. Whenever she was going

549
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:50,680
Speaker 2: out on the town she would have a full bottle

550
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 2: of wine with her. And she was like, because as

551
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 2: an ex pat or whatever in a foreign city, you

552
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 2: never look weird carrying a bottle of wine somewhere. But

553
00:27:58,359 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 2: if you hit someone in the face with a bottle

554
00:27:59,920 --> 00:28:02,919
Speaker 2: of wine, it tends to disrupt whatever they're doing, like

555
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 2: pretty effectively. Like all right, that's that's not an unreasonable

556
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 2: way to look at it.

557
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 4: I like, I mean, in the best case scenario, you

558
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 4: have a bottle of wine, like you kind of useless.

559
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:20,120
Speaker 4: I mean that I can really get behind that that reasoning.

560
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,360
Speaker 4: It's and and you know, women have to innovate.

561
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:23,679
Speaker 3: They just did.

562
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 2: Absolutely.

563
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 4: I believe in the Stanley cups is a weapon. I

564
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 4: take I have no opinion on this round of discourse.

565
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 4: I'm just excited for the new Ariana Grande album.

566
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 2: Ladies, if you have a weird Stanley thing, this is

567
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 2: your podcast. I think there's probably a lot of money

568
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 2: in saying that, so that's why I'm saying it. Anyway.

569
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 4: I think I think the real, the only real Stanley

570
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 4: Cup I observe, is the one that comes out right

571
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 4: after the Zamboni at the end of the season.

572
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 3: That's the Stanley Cup that I like. Anyways, where are

573
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 3: we talking about? What's the show?

574
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 4: Oh?

575
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 2: Man, you know this is We've gone too off to

576
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 2: But I did hear from a friend recently that a

577
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 2: hockey player killed a guy by cutting his throat with

578
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 2: his skates on accident. Oh, come on, And that sounded

579
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 2: like a thing that would happen in a movie. But

580
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 2: it's real.

581
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 3: So I was this like, I was like, I bet

582
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 3: was this like a long time ago?

583
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 2: No, I think it's pretty recently.

584
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 4: It was recent, really, I was like, my dad, I'm

585
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 4: sure they taught me about the guy skate energy, but

586
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 4: it was a kill. I think my dad talked about

587
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 4: like some eighties critical injury where that happened.

588
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 2: This was a kill. This was a kill with the skates,

589
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 2: so it works brutal anyway, occupational hazard. Yeah, back to

590
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 2: the Finder's Cult. We know a few ex members made

591
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 2: complaints to the police over the first twenty years or

592
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 2: so of the cult, and there's a couple of reports

593
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 2: you get from cops. After this all blows up into

594
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 2: the big case that we're building towards where police officers

595
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 2: in like the DC area would be like, yeah, we

596
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 2: knew about him. They were weird.

597
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 4: Uh.

598
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 2: We kept trying to find a way to like arrest

599
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 2: them all, but they weren't committing any crimes. It's a

600
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 2: very they're all very cop quotes where they're like, yeah,

601
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 2: we kept looking into them, but couldn't find any just

602
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 2: justification to ruin their lives. So we just moved on.

603
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 2: But we're really happy something finally happened because we knew

604
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 2: they were weird. Got rain. Now, over the course of

605
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 2: almost twenty years of existence, a number of children are

606
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 2: born into the cult. They were raised communally, and they

607
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 2: were known to tell interviewers when they were asked like

608
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 2: who's your dad, and they would say, he's my dad,

609
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 2: and he's my dad, and he's my dad, and that

610
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 2: sounds like it could be fine. There's God no, thousands

611
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 2: of cultures and societies over the course of human life

612
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 2: where like that's the way it worked to some extent,

613
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 2: in part because they did not fully understand the way

614
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 2: genetic inheritance worked, and in part because like had different

615
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 2: attitudes on monogamy and stuff like that kind of thing

616
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 2: has been done. It's a way kids can be raised.

617
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 2: That's not fully what's happening here, right, because the kids

618
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 2: are told that, like, oh, all of the men here

619
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 2: are your dads. But most of the men in the

620
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 2: cult had no desire to raise those children, right, They're

621
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:58,959
Speaker 2: just being told by Perry, all of the kids are

622
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 2: your responsibility, and they were like sure, I guess, and

623
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,959
Speaker 2: then didn't pay any attention to the children. So as

624
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 2: a result, it was not uncommon for kids to kind

625
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 2: of get neglected because the actual biological dad is being

626
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 2: told all of the men are also their father, so

627
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 2: it's like, well, I don't have to work as hard,

628
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 2: and also all of the other men are like, well

629
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 2: I didn't have that kid, I'm not going to take

630
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 2: care of it.

631
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 4: So God, yeah, whenever you hear stories, I mean, I

632
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 4: think it's frequently cultpital. So it just like it takes

633
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 4: a village logic, resulting in a whole herd of adults

634
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 4: failing to take care of a child.

635
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 3: So frustrating.

636
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, there's like one of my favorite stories and

637
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 2: I think I caught I think I read this in

638
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 2: the book Sex at Dawn. Was this like indigenous group

639
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 2: in I believe somewhere in South America where like and

640
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 2: this is you know, we're talking about an older set

641
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 2: of beliefs, but like their attitude was like, it's not

642
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 2: children aren't made by like one father, right, Like, once

643
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 2: you're pregnant, you like sleep with other guys who have

644
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 2: skills that you like, can they all contribute to the kid?

645
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 2: And the pragmatic result of this is that, like while

646
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 2: this woman says that, like, well, these four men are

647
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 2: the men who made that baby, and they're all responsible

648
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 2: for taking care of the kids. So it's a it's

649
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 2: an a strategy when you're dealing with like higher rates

650
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 2: of mortality in the community. Right, the kid doesn't have

651
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 2: one adult looking after him or two, it has like

652
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 2: five or six. And that's functional very much not what's

653
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 2: happening here.

654
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, yeah, and that also just sounds like building

655
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 4: a video game character, not a I.

656
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 2: Wish it worked that way.

657
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 4: You're like, well, this guy is a you know, very

658
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 4: like handy. Let me just go fuck a guy who.

659
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 2: Is Yeah, and it's got a hammer. I'm gonna go

660
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 2: fuck him real quick and really level up the kid.

661
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 3: I wish it was like that. That would be great.

662
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 4: You would be having this so much better, the greatest

663
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 4: nine months of your life, just like creating super Soldiers.

664
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 2: Just a crowd showing up outside of the Olympic village

665
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 2: every four years.

666
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 3: My god. Okay, well that's a I mean, that's a

667
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 3: fun idea. I wish what is that?

668
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 2: But the idea at least a good short story in that.

669
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, that's a George that's it. That's a George

670
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 3: Saunders b side waiting to happen.

671
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. So kids in this cult are kept out of

672
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 2: schools and given an eclectic education. It's one of those

673
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 2: things where like it kind of depends when in the

674
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 2: cult and like what adults you're around. Because they're in

675
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 2: a couple of locations, some of those kids learn a

676
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 2: lot of stuff, right, they're around really smart educated people

677
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 2: who take it upon them to like train those kids.

678
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 2: They hang out and like you know, helping to start

679
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 2: these businesses or do these spying missions. I'm sure they

680
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 2: learn a lot, and other kids run around on like

681
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 2: a farm and don't learn how to read. Right. It's

682
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 2: it's a mix of those things. Are all happening.

683
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 3: What a beautiful uh gradient yeah.

684
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, this will become meaningful later. But on one occasion,

685
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 2: the cult slaughters a pair of goats, and like, oh,

686
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 2: let the kids kind of help in that process, play

687
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 2: around with the remains too.

688
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 3: What is it with this group and remains?

689
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,800
Speaker 2: It's just I don't know, kids like kids like dead animals,

690
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 2: you know. That's that's classic. That's why that famous gift.

691
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:14,879
Speaker 2: You get a kid, you know, a dead animal, bring

692
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,759
Speaker 2: them to a child in a room together. That's how

693
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 2: parenting works.

694
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 3: Kids like goo. Maybe that's what kids do, like goo.

695
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 3: I liked you.

696
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, don't we all like goo? That's why Starship Troopers

697
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:28,839
Speaker 2: was such a such a hit.

698
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 4: So.

699
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 2: George George Petty, Maryon's son, would later give a description

700
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 2: of the Colt's child rearing practices to The Washington Post.

701
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:40,320
Speaker 2: Quote he said, the lives of the children are unpleasant

702
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 2: because group members rear them collectively frequently. Mary and Petty

703
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 2: now sixty six would a sign a follower to a

704
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 2: game or adventure overseas or in another city, and the

705
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 2: group member would not see his children for months. George

706
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 2: Petty said the group engaged in constant babysitting. I wouldn't

707
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,360
Speaker 2: want to be a child there without a reliable day in,

708
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 2: day out parent. Figure. If the children found in the

709
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 2: van in Florida, I bet you a buck, you'll find

710
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 2: their biological mothers live in w Street. That's the occult's

711
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 2: other location. And if they're not up there now, they're

712
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,879
Speaker 2: off on some adventure. This is later when those kids

713
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,839
Speaker 2: get found. As I open the episode, right, like he's saying, basically, Okay,

714
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:20,239
Speaker 2: these kids are neglected a lot. I don't think there ever,

715
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 2: there's no goal to abuse them. They believe things because

716
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 2: Petty has all these theories about child rearing that wind

717
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 2: up not being great for these kids. But they're not

718
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 2: like going out of their way to harm them, right,

719
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 2: it's just the bad social experiment. Yeah, And again, like.

720
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:43,400
Speaker 4: The goal that is leading to these children being neglected

721
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 4: is so mysterious, Like I just don't understand.

722
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 2: I might not agree with that, Jamie, because like, oh,

723
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,320
Speaker 2: what I think is happening here. All these people is

724
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 2: cult are raised between the twenties and the forties, not

725
00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 2: a famously great time for raising kids. A lot of problems,

726
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 2: a lot of kids getting the shit beat out of them,

727
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 2: very authoritarian education, or kids being pulled out of education

728
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 2: to like make money, you know, for their families or

729
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 2: they'll starve.

730
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:14,879
Speaker 4: Yeah, being enlisted, being forced into labor too young.

731
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 2: Sure, and so I don't think it's unreasonable that these

732
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 2: people are like, I bet there's a better way to

733
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 2: raise kids. I think what's unreasonable is that they say,

734
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 2: and we'll let this one guy decide what it is. Yeah, weirdo.

735
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 2: That's where the problem comes in.

736
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, that is interesting. I've never heard of like alternative parenting,

737
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 4: like i e. Semi abusive parenting techniques being framed in

738
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 4: that way. That makes a lot of sense.

739
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, this is what it is, right, Yeah.

740
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 4: Right, Like, well this is it's almost like bad boyfriend

741
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,719
Speaker 4: logic where you're like, well, it's not what happened to

742
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:52,799
Speaker 4: the last time, so let's see if it works, and

743
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 4: it's usually it usually doesn't.

744
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, might as well change it up. Yeah, So yeah,

745
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 2: I had that article. That Washington Post article also includes

746
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 2: some quotes from neighbors who visited the Petty family farm

747
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 2: early in the Colt's life, and they this is like

748
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 2: some random man on the street encounters towards how the

749
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 2: Colt raised children that I found interesting. In the summer,

750
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 2: neighbors saw as many as a dozen children at the farm.

751
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 2: There was always hollering and screaming going on, said Wilma Richards.

752
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,359
Speaker 2: They were always hollering about mama and daddy. One time

753
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 2: I heard one say I want milk. Another person said,

754
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 2: shut up, you ain't gonna get ituck, and bad journalism there,

755
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 2: because it's like, what was that a kid saying shut up,

756
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 2: you ain't gonna get it, Because that does kind of

757
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 2: sound like a kid being angry at another kid, or

758
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:36,879
Speaker 2: as any an adult saying fuck you you don't get milk,

759
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,800
Speaker 2: in which case that's a more abusive scenario. Right. Yeah,

760
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 2: I don't know. Yeah, but you know, these kids, this

761
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,240
Speaker 2: is not I don't think the ideal way to raise kids.

762
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 2: Just keeping them box to them a farm and not

763
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 2: educating them.

764
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 4: I'm going to bravely say I think they're doing a

765
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 4: pretty horrible job of raising these kids.

766
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:59,240
Speaker 2: Not a good job with these kids. Yeah, although again,

767
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:03,800
Speaker 2: it's the same seventies. Is this worse than an average parent? Sure?

768
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:08,359
Speaker 2: Is this massively worse than a lot of people are doing. Well,

769
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:08,839
Speaker 2: I don't know.

770
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 4: I I'm just I think they're doing a bad job.

771
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 4: But they're doing in the context of like they're doing

772
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 4: a different bad job than the previous generation. Because there's

773
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:24,719
Speaker 4: a wave of new parenting skit that ends up you know,

774
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 4: fucking I don't know, We're just fucked.

775
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 2: We're just fucking yeah, we're just fucked again. This is bad.

776
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 2: It's not surprising. We all, I'm gonna guess everyone listening

777
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 2: to this new kids were friends with kids whose parents

778
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 2: took variations of this attitude, were like, we're different, we

779
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 2: don't you know, watch over our kids, Like we're more

780
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 2: we have this more enlightened attitude towards child rearing. But

781
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:47,319
Speaker 2: that was just a way of them justifying I don't

782
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 2: pay any attention to my child, as opposed to actually

783
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 2: trying to give them more freedom, which is good. Like

784
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 2: parents who just like had no idea what was going

785
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 2: on with their kids. You all knew that kid, we

786
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,359
Speaker 2: were all or you were that kid, right, Like, what

787
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 2: I'm saying is that this is not great child rearing.

788
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:05,840
Speaker 2: But it's not weird right this, Sure, yeah, I'm.

789
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 4: Going the same way that like, I don't know, I

790
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 4: think about like growing up in like an age of

791
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 4: like helicopter parenting, being on the come up and having

792
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 4: some parents that like just were like, well I don't

793
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,840
Speaker 4: do that. I'm doing this brave new thing called not

794
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:20,839
Speaker 4: paying attention to my child at all.

795
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 3: You're like, surely we can split the difference.

796
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:27,799
Speaker 2: Literally never met my child. Yeah. In nineteen eighty six,

797
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 2: Petty had an idea for a new game. For reasons

798
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:33,240
Speaker 2: that are somewhat obscure to me, he ordered the membership

799
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:36,240
Speaker 2: to split into an all male and all female dwelling.

800
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:40,280
Speaker 2: Some women who lived independently were ordered to live separately

801
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:42,800
Speaker 2: from the men. The closest thing that I found to

802
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 2: an explanation as to why they did this is that

803
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 2: some of the women had complained that their baby daddies

804
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 2: were using the Colt's attitude towards child rearing. It's an

805
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 2: excuse to ignore their kids. So this is a kind

806
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 2: of a mark. And the less abusive thing as like, yeah,

807
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 2: they did this for a few years and like the

808
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:00,840
Speaker 2: men were ignoring the kids, so they change shit. Up,

809
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 2: and the way they change it is Petty has all

810
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 2: of the women move into separate apartments from the men.

811
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 2: They live in a separate house and the men are

812
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:10,879
Speaker 2: living with the kids and taking care of them.

813
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 1: Right.

814
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 2: He's basically saying, Okay, you men have been shirking your job.

815
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:16,279
Speaker 2: We're gonna cut the women out of it. They can

816
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 2: all they're all gonna go off and have an adventure

817
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 2: and you have to focus on raising the kids right now,

818
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 2: which is again not misogynist. Now, no, is it a

819
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 2: good idea for those kids? They're to put them with

820
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 2: these guys, you don't know what they're doing. Maybe not.

821
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's there's many things that are true here.

822
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's a complicated situation because it is like

823
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:46,400
Speaker 2: that is progressive from a gender standpoint, but also really

824
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 2: not very responsible.

825
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:52,399
Speaker 4: But we gotta vet these dads. We just gotta bet

826
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 4: these dads. We can't count on them learning on the

827
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:56,839
Speaker 4: job they need.

828
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 2: Look again, it's not fair that like, because the women

829
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:01,760
Speaker 2: are the ones who have kept these kids from dying,

830
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:04,800
Speaker 2: they should have stayed involved in keeping them from dying.

831
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 2: But you know, you probably should have had like training

832
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,280
Speaker 2: wheels on the guys, right that's all I'm saying.

833
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:12,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, No, I mean it's like the child rearing is

834
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 4: always going to unfairly fall to women. That's something we

835
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 4: all know. But it's also like if I'm leaving my

836
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 4: child to a guy that doesn't know how to like exactly,

837
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 4: you know, that's I think about like when my parents,

838
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 4: I mean, and I love my family very much, but

839
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 4: when my parents got divorced and my dad was like,

840
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:34,839
Speaker 4: my dad doesn't know how to do laundry, what are

841
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 4: we gonna do?

842
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:37,320
Speaker 3: Like we're gonna die.

843
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 2: I'm not making a general statement about like I'm not

844
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 2: saying that like, ye, men should not be led. I'm

845
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 2: saying that in this specific case, men can be as

846
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:48,320
Speaker 2: men had ignored these kids for years, and you shouldn't

847
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,359
Speaker 2: just give the kids to them without having someone there

848
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,759
Speaker 2: to make sure they know what they're doing. Right. Yeah, Yeah,

849
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:56,240
Speaker 2: that's that's all I'm saying.

850
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 3: Yes, I mean there's yeah, obviously there's there's good male parents.

851
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 3: It's just not in this group.

852
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 2: It doesn't sound, it doesn't seem like a lot of

853
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:05,399
Speaker 2: good ones in this group. Now, what the men are

854
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:07,839
Speaker 2: actually pretty good at, and I think the women too,

855
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 2: is making money. And this is an interesting thing. I

856
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:13,680
Speaker 2: think this cult doesn't steal. Most of the money it

857
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 2: gets from its members. Members when they join fold their

858
00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 2: finances into a big account. But there are a number

859
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:21,800
Speaker 2: of claims from members who are like, if you wanted

860
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:24,719
Speaker 2: to take your money out, you could, Nobody stopped you. Right.

861
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 2: That will change eventually, but for the first like twenty

862
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 2: years or so, it's like a big bank. And the

863
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 2: money that people are putting in, they're starting businesses, and

864
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 2: some of those businesses are pretty successful. And the idea,

865
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 2: initially from Petty is that like the children that we're

866
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:44,400
Speaker 2: having and raising within the cult will inherit these businesses

867
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 2: and they'll continue on our mission. It's never clear what

868
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,320
Speaker 2: the mission is, but like, that's the idea. We're pooling

869
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 2: our resources starting business and then we'll make money that

870
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:53,400
Speaker 2: will pass on to these kids who are going to

871
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 2: raise to be super enlightened, you know people. Right now,

872
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 2: Petty obviously is not a guy with any experience running businesses,

873
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 2: and he has no real interest in running businesses. A

874
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:07,880
Speaker 2: lot of what they do is like training people on computers.

875
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 2: There's a lot of computer engineers and the finders, and

876
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:12,879
Speaker 2: Petty doesn't know any of that. Shit. So a lot

877
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 2: of the management Jet tasks fell on the shoulders of

878
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 2: Robert Toby Terrell, who writes the book that is a

879
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 2: major source for a lot of our details on Marion's life.

880
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 2: Terrell is a former IRS employee who became a venture

881
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:29,920
Speaker 2: capitalist and wound up owning an oil company. Like he's wealthy.

882
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 4: See, I know anytime you throw a three name in there,

883
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 4: something is about to go wrong.

884
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 2: Toby's his nickname that he got in the cult. But yes,

885
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 2: that does count. Yeah, So Perry's an early member. He

886
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:44,239
Speaker 2: joins in seventy one, and he abandons his family in

887
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 2: ordered Like he's got a family, he's got a business,

888
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 2: he's got like a house, and he just like meets

889
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 2: this guy and leaves it all behind. He would later say, quote,

890
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 2: I was looking for a more meaningful life. I had

891
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:56,279
Speaker 2: already made a pretty big pile of money, and I

892
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 2: couldn't just go on making more. There wasn't really much

893
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:01,879
Speaker 2: point in that Petty offered a more personalized life, more

894
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 2: community oriented, re establishing the kind of extended family that

895
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 2: the human species evolved under. And I'm not one hundred

896
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:10,720
Speaker 2: percent clear did he like leave his kids and wife

897
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:13,360
Speaker 2: or like is he still involved in their life. It

898
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,800
Speaker 2: kind of sounds like, here's the fight it, here's your money.

899
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:18,960
Speaker 2: You've got some money. I'm going to go leave to

900
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:19,879
Speaker 2: be in a cult now.

901
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 3: God, which for the for the right bad parents, could

902
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 3: be a blessing.

903
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 2: It could be huge.

904
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:28,880
Speaker 3: Honestly, I love what a problem just resolves itself like that.

905
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So things are going pretty well by cult

906
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 2: terms for the Finders right up until the end of

907
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty six. Now, the cult at this point has

908
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:40,719
Speaker 2: started looking at Tallahassee, Florida, as a possible place to

909
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 2: expand their operations. It's neck colts in Florida go together like, well,

910
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 2: there's nothing that goes together better than that, But it

911
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 2: goes together well, they go together real good. Several adult

912
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 2: male members then decide to drive down to Florida in

913
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:56,439
Speaker 2: a van to check out possible location. They're scoping out,

914
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:57,719
Speaker 2: like are we going to expand to here?

915
00:44:57,840 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 1: Right?

916
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 2: And because of the aforementioned shifted child rearing that had occurred,

917
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:03,840
Speaker 2: they had a bunch of kids with them, Right, So

918
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:05,839
Speaker 2: you got two men in a van with a bunch

919
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 2: of small children. Neither of those men know much about

920
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 2: taking care of small children. They are feeding them a

921
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:15,239
Speaker 2: vegan diet. It sounds like which you can do with

922
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 2: a little kid, but you need to be careful about

923
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:21,279
Speaker 2: it to make sure they're getting proper nutrition. And I

924
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 2: don't think these men know much other than the hand

925
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 2: a two year old a carrot.

926
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 3: The optics are objectively bad.

927
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:33,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is not going to look good. I am

928
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:37,919
Speaker 2: not surprised that these guys attracted attention. So the gist

929
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:40,279
Speaker 2: of what happens next is that a group of two

930
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 2: adult men in suits are spotted by some busybody in

931
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 2: Florida with children who seem dirty. She gets angry and

932
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 2: she reports them to the police because she's sure that

933
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,960
Speaker 2: something is wrong. The police are like, we're the police.

934
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 2: The last thing we care about is anything fuck off.

935
00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:01,080
Speaker 2: So she starts adding details, right, like, Okay, they don't

936
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:02,800
Speaker 2: care that these two men in suits are around a

937
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 2: bunch of dirty kids. So she starts adding shit, and

938
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:09,680
Speaker 2: she's you know, the kind of Floridian lady who calls

939
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 2: the police when she sees some men in suits that

940
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:13,760
Speaker 2: look like hippies.

941
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:17,920
Speaker 3: So she's, hey, don't limit that to Florida. There's a

942
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:18,880
Speaker 3: lot all over them.

943
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:23,360
Speaker 4: There's neighbor ladies all over this great nation, willing to

944
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:24,880
Speaker 4: call the cops for any reason.

945
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:27,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is the late eighties, so the Satanic

946
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 2: panic is in full swing right now. Right. So after

947
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 2: a couple of phone calls, the cops don't bite. She

948
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:36,840
Speaker 2: starts folding in, claims that these people are Satanists, you know,

949
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 2: to try to make them do something, okay, and I

950
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:41,760
Speaker 2: want to I'm going to read to you an excerpt

951
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 2: from a police report on the arrest that happens after this,

952
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 2: because it shows how kind of how much this woman

953
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:50,360
Speaker 2: who calls them really forces, how she's like building consciously

954
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:53,280
Speaker 2: building a story to force the cops to do something.

955
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:56,959
Speaker 2: In December of nineteen eighty six, the woman's name called

956
00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:59,720
Speaker 2: the Intelligence Division and reported that she had information concerning

957
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:02,600
Speaker 2: a call operating in the District of Columbia. Blank was

958
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:05,879
Speaker 2: advised the Detective Blank of this office handle Colt investigations

959
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:07,799
Speaker 2: and was currently out of town, but would contact her

960
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 2: after his return. She was contacted in late December by

961
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 2: Detective Blank by telephone and advised that she wished to

962
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:16,799
Speaker 2: be interviewed concerning this cult Detective Blank and Detective Blank

963
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:19,399
Speaker 2: of the Maryland Park Police. She claims to these guys

964
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 2: that a section of the cult was operating in Maryland.

965
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 2: They interview her at her residence and she says that

966
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 2: like yeah, now, after you know, making her initial call,

967
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:29,839
Speaker 2: she starts claiming that like, oh, these guys actually tried

968
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:31,839
Speaker 2: to bring me into the cult and they tried to

969
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 2: recruit me. And the police are like, well, that's interesting,

970
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:37,359
Speaker 2: but that's still there's nothing illegal with trying to get

971
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 2: someone to join a cult, so call back when you

972
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:42,879
Speaker 2: have more. So in January of eighty seven, the next month,

973
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 2: she calls back again, being like, Okay, these guys are Satanists.

974
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:49,920
Speaker 2: I'm aware that they're Satanists. And the detective, to his credit,

975
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:52,759
Speaker 2: is like, well, that's still not a crime. But then

976
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:57,799
Speaker 2: he's like wow, yeah, base police, base base police. But

977
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,760
Speaker 2: he is interested, like I want to figure out what's happening.

978
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:03,160
Speaker 2: So he like calls another detective and is like, let's

979
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 2: keep in the loop about this in case something happens.

980
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 2: And so there's like there's some interest in the police

981
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 2: about these guys. And they get yet another call on

982
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:16,279
Speaker 2: February fourth, nineteen eighty seven, and decide to send some

983
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:18,880
Speaker 2: police out to check on the matter. Right, and the

984
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:21,400
Speaker 2: call comes in from someone in the neighborhood who sees like,

985
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:23,759
Speaker 2: there's these group of men dressed as a skabhand with

986
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 2: a van full of dirty children. I call that woman

987
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 2: a busybody because like she calls the police repeatedly over

988
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:33,120
Speaker 2: these guys and keeps kind of bugging them about it.

989
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:35,719
Speaker 4: Well, and I feel like there's an element of I mean,

990
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:39,960
Speaker 4: I could think of people like shitty neighbors throughout my

991
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 4: life as well, who like, once the police engage with them,

992
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:46,839
Speaker 4: they feel, you know, they seem empowered to be like, oh,

993
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:49,239
Speaker 4: I'm a part of I'm a part of this, you know,

994
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:53,359
Speaker 4: and continue to engage it just sometimes like an increasingly

995
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:55,360
Speaker 4: nonsense ways.

996
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:59,239
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. And it's also this is kind of the

997
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:02,360
Speaker 2: most important thing for me to note is that like,

998
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 2: not everyone who lives in this neighborhood where these guys

999
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:08,719
Speaker 2: have their van and these kids sees anything sinister here.

1000
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:11,720
Speaker 2: One of the articles I found sites a college professor

1001
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 2: who lived in the area, John Matthews, who is like, yeah,

1002
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:17,799
Speaker 2: you know, there were like a close knit group of

1003
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 2: feminists who like to help people. They're not a cult,

1004
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 2: you know, people talk about them because of their lifestyle,

1005
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:25,319
Speaker 2: but I think they're pretty harmless. So there's like not

1006
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 2: everyone there's like it seems to be this woman specifically

1007
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:31,879
Speaker 2: thought something was wrong here. Now, to be fair to her,

1008
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:36,360
Speaker 2: these kids do seem to be like dirty and perhaps

1009
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 2: not well cared for.

1010
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 3: Right, totally off base, She's not totally off base. There

1011
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 3: are wrong reasons, yeah, and it's.

1012
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:47,440
Speaker 2: Weird that she like lies about Satanism. Basically maybe she

1013
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 2: believed it, like all, but like if you see kids

1014
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 2: that you think are being abused and the police repeatedly

1015
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:54,879
Speaker 2: won't do anything, maybe that's the action you take.

1016
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 4: I don't know, yeah, I mean or or just I mean, like,

1017
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:02,400
Speaker 4: given how low the bar was to believe somewhat was

1018
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:05,319
Speaker 4: a Satanist in the eighties, I mean, who she could

1019
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:08,360
Speaker 4: be going off of any number of faulty yard six there.

1020
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:13,320
Speaker 2: So, finally, February fourth, after repeated calls, the police send

1021
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:15,680
Speaker 2: a couple of officers to check on these guys, and

1022
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:18,839
Speaker 2: they find two men living with six kids aged two

1023
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 2: to seven. The kids are described as being really dirty,

1024
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 2: they have a lot of bug bites. The cops I think,

1025
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 2: initially described them at least one cop that initially describes

1026
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 2: them as like malnourished. The van is kind of smelly.

1027
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:34,000
Speaker 2: They seem to have been hyping up how like the

1028
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:36,880
Speaker 2: fact that they were malnourished. Further reporting and like medical

1029
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:40,160
Speaker 2: investigation did not show the kids were in like bad health.

1030
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:43,800
Speaker 2: And like one of the officers who responds as a woman,

1031
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:45,879
Speaker 2: and she actually kind of pushes back at the idea

1032
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:48,480
Speaker 2: that the kids were particularly dirty because all of the

1033
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:51,960
Speaker 2: news reports when this blows up, are like the children

1034
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 2: uncared for in the back of a van, And this

1035
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:56,719
Speaker 2: lady officer is like, my first impression is that they

1036
00:50:56,719 --> 00:50:58,880
Speaker 2: were dirty, but I would not say they were unusually

1037
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:02,800
Speaker 2: dirty for kids, right, Like, yeah, they're kind of like gross,

1038
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:04,239
Speaker 2: but that's children, you know.

1039
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 3: Interesting. I still don't know where to where to lay out.

1040
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 7: Because it's just such a yeah, it's such a fraud issue,

1041
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:14,839
Speaker 7: and it's like anyone could everyone sounds like they're a

1042
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 7: degree of right right situation.

1043
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:20,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's that, And I think that is kind

1044
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:23,720
Speaker 2: of where we are, because like I actually can't blame

1045
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:26,120
Speaker 2: the police for being like, all right, well, there's this

1046
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:29,440
Speaker 2: lady really concerned that these kids are being mistreated and

1047
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:33,399
Speaker 2: they're dirty. We should probably check in and like negligy.

1048
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 3: To do nothing. It's like the police to do nothing.

1049
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:39,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's check in on this, right, And so they

1050
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:42,319
Speaker 2: do and they find, you know, one of the men

1051
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 2: is the biological father of one of the children. The

1052
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:48,400
Speaker 2: other guy has nothing to do biologically with any of

1053
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:50,840
Speaker 2: the kids, none of their other parents, but he.

1054
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:53,880
Speaker 4: Had sex with the pregnant woman and thinks that that

1055
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:56,520
Speaker 4: would make one of these kids good at basketball.

1056
00:51:56,560 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, it's good stuff. One of the office, the

1057
00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:04,839
Speaker 2: responding female officer, wrote this in her report. This writer

1058
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:07,360
Speaker 2: spoke to suspect one, who stated that he and Suspect

1059
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 2: two were teachers from Washington, DC and they were en

1060
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:12,279
Speaker 2: route to Mexico with the children. Suspect one stated that

1061
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:14,080
Speaker 2: they were going to Mexico to set up a school

1062
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:17,600
Speaker 2: for brilliant children. When asked about the parents of the children,

1063
00:52:17,719 --> 00:52:20,440
Speaker 2: Suspect one became very evasive and stated that the children's

1064
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:24,280
Speaker 2: parents were in Washington, d C. So this is the lie,

1065
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:26,560
Speaker 2: and it will later come out that Petty had told

1066
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:28,640
Speaker 2: them that if the cops ask you why you're driving

1067
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 2: around these kids, say you're taking them to Mexico to

1068
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:36,520
Speaker 2: start a school for geniuses. Like that's that's his lie

1069
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:39,680
Speaker 2: that he comes up with to tell the cops you're

1070
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:42,960
Speaker 2: taking these other people's kids to Mexico to make a

1071
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:43,800
Speaker 2: baby Harbor.

1072
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:50,320
Speaker 4: That is like crime, mad libs. So funny, that's escaping

1073
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:51,760
Speaker 4: the country mad libs.

1074
00:52:52,719 --> 00:52:55,160
Speaker 2: Because if you just said, like, yeah, we're watching some friends' kids.

1075
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:57,360
Speaker 2: You know, we're all about to move down here, we're

1076
00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:01,120
Speaker 2: looking for a house, like cops probably believe. But you're like,

1077
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:04,399
Speaker 2: we're taking them to Mexico to make baby Harvard. Well, yeah,

1078
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 2: of course you're getting arrested now if that's clearly sex

1079
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 2: criminal stuff.

1080
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:14,600
Speaker 7: Jesus Okay, So so there.

1081
00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:18,279
Speaker 3: I mean, it's like, are they I don't know why.

1082
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:19,880
Speaker 3: I'm trying to understand why they would say this.

1083
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:23,600
Speaker 4: Everyone's been behaving weird for two decades and this is

1084
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:26,440
Speaker 4: the first time people seem to care it's happening.

1085
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:29,320
Speaker 3: Uh, baby Harvard. That is just that's just a step

1086
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:31,920
Speaker 3: too far. We have to draw the line of baby Harvard,

1087
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:32,760
Speaker 3: says the police.

1088
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:35,720
Speaker 2: I'm always saying that, and so are the police.

1089
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:36,239
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1090
00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:38,480
Speaker 2: And you know what else the police are saying, Jamie,

1091
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:43,000
Speaker 2: Oh no, don't buy the products that support this podcast.

1092
00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:45,000
Speaker 2: We the police hate them.

1093
00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:48,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, perfect crime. Well I just took my wallet out.

1094
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:52,879
Speaker 2: My wallet's never been in my pants even once.

1095
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:56,040
Speaker 3: Let's not think too deep into the optics of that.

1096
00:53:56,239 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 3: I don't know.

1097
00:53:57,239 --> 00:53:59,239
Speaker 2: Uh huh, Okay.

1098
00:53:58,960 --> 00:53:59,959
Speaker 3: I actually don't have a wall.

1099
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:03,360
Speaker 4: Yes, I just keep my cards loose in my pants.

1100
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 2: Ah, we're back and pretending I didn't say the thing

1101
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:17,759
Speaker 2: that we believed out of the podcast. So the cops

1102
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:20,560
Speaker 2: are talking to these people. The Finders members come up

1103
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:22,920
Speaker 2: with their brilliant lie written by Petty that they're just

1104
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:27,239
Speaker 2: taking these kids to Mexico. The police are like, where

1105
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 2: are their mothers? And so the men tell the lie

1106
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:31,680
Speaker 2: that Petty had told them to say, which is that

1107
00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:34,839
Speaker 2: they're being weaned off of their mothers. Again, every bit

1108
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:37,160
Speaker 2: of this is like exactly what you would say if

1109
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:39,400
Speaker 2: you wanted the police to think your sex criminals.

1110
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:43,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, it really is a masterclass and what not to

1111
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:46,760
Speaker 4: say in a situation where I think that they are being.

1112
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:49,640
Speaker 3: Set up to get away with it whatever it is.

1113
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:54,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, that or Petty wanted to create a conspiracy theory,

1114
00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:56,960
Speaker 2: and so he sent these guys off to get in trouble.

1115
00:54:57,040 --> 00:55:00,960
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know. So the officers at

1116
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:03,600
Speaker 2: this point decide to arrest these guys on suspicion of

1117
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:08,399
Speaker 2: child abuse, not necessarily unreasonable given what they've been told. Yeah,

1118
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:11,720
Speaker 2: I just you have to say it. And it's particularly

1119
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:14,239
Speaker 2: reasonable because they're they're doing this so that they can

1120
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:18,480
Speaker 2: have medical professionals talk to and inspect the kids. Right,

1121
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:22,040
Speaker 2: Are they malnourished, Have they been beaten? Have they been molested?

1122
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:25,680
Speaker 2: That's pretty important to know given everything that's happened here.

1123
00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:29,680
Speaker 2: And so they tell the men like, you're under arrest

1124
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:31,799
Speaker 2: on suspicion of child abuse. And one of the men

1125
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:35,640
Speaker 2: pretends to faint. And this is the police officer describing it.

1126
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:38,680
Speaker 2: The guy just did a fake faint. I've seen it

1127
00:55:38,719 --> 00:55:41,760
Speaker 2: several times. Women are real good at doing it. Usually

1128
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 2: when a guy really faints, you don't ben the knees.

1129
00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:46,960
Speaker 2: This guy did the Scarlett O'Hara thing. I checked him.

1130
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 2: I looked at his eyes to make sure he wasn't

1131
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:50,879
Speaker 2: diabetic or something. I said, get up, I know you're

1132
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:53,000
Speaker 2: faking this mess. And he wouldn't get up. It was

1133
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:55,200
Speaker 2: like a child playing, like when you go to check

1134
00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:56,520
Speaker 2: if they're asleep at night.

1135
00:55:57,200 --> 00:55:57,759
Speaker 5: Do that.

1136
00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:01,440
Speaker 3: This cult is not finding very strong soldiers.

1137
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:03,800
Speaker 4: Oh no, they're just like you.

1138
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:09,719
Speaker 3: Oh, my stars and stripes, I'm being accused of what.

1139
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:11,680
Speaker 2: Like POWD molestation.

1140
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:14,239
Speaker 3: This is just it.

1141
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:18,399
Speaker 4: Oh god, everyone in this scenario is flopping. Let's get

1142
00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:20,799
Speaker 4: these kids out of here, away from the police, away

1143
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:21,839
Speaker 4: from these guys.

1144
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:26,480
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, let's do it. Eh. So, while this is

1145
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:29,200
Speaker 2: all happening, this guy's fake fainting, the cops are doing

1146
00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:31,759
Speaker 2: their arrest thing. A group of local teens sees the

1147
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:34,920
Speaker 2: commotion and one runs home to get their video camera,

1148
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:37,839
Speaker 2: returning just in time to film the arrest. It became

1149
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:40,520
Speaker 2: a local story, and people tipped off the news who

1150
00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:43,480
Speaker 2: immediately jumped on a possible tale of a pedophile van

1151
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:47,080
Speaker 2: because the initial complaint from that woman said they were Satanists.

1152
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:49,480
Speaker 2: That's what came out in some of the first coverage

1153
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:52,239
Speaker 2: of the event, and the story snowballed from there. The

1154
00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:54,680
Speaker 2: fact that fired everybody up and ensured this became a

1155
00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:58,520
Speaker 2: media circus was that a police spokesman had stated at

1156
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:02,480
Speaker 2: a press conference that quote, physical examination showed sexual abuse

1157
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:06,800
Speaker 2: to one of the children. Now, this is extremely serious.

1158
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:09,799
Speaker 2: Allegations do not get much worse than that, right, and

1159
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:12,479
Speaker 2: that is a serious thing. If a child was found

1160
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:15,560
Speaker 2: who have been sexually abused, whether or not that's the

1161
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:17,600
Speaker 2: whole cult or one guy in it who was given

1162
00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:21,280
Speaker 2: like control over children because of Petty's weird game. Either way,

1163
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:25,880
Speaker 2: serious problem, right, and much of the reputation of the

1164
00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:28,680
Speaker 2: finders of why they're part of conspiracy theory centers around

1165
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:31,440
Speaker 2: this statement. Right, that specifically one of these children was

1166
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:34,680
Speaker 2: found who have been abused. Here's the problem. That is

1167
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:37,480
Speaker 2: not an accurate statement based on what the cops had

1168
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:41,120
Speaker 2: been told at that point. Now, Okay, in this case,

1169
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:43,760
Speaker 2: it's not fully their fault because a Health in Human

1170
00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:48,520
Speaker 2: Services caseworker had told a police officer that two of

1171
00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:51,560
Speaker 2: the children were confirmed sexual assault victims. Now, a couple

1172
00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:53,760
Speaker 2: of things here. Number one, that means the police are

1173
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 2: still wrong because they said that one shelf had been abused,

1174
00:57:56,800 --> 00:57:58,480
Speaker 2: and they were told by the Health and Human Services

1175
00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:01,640
Speaker 2: re up that two children had been But also the

1176
00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:05,040
Speaker 2: Health and Human Services representative had not been told that

1177
00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:07,880
Speaker 2: a child was a confirmed sexual assault victim. That was

1178
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:10,080
Speaker 2: also a lie to the police, not a lie, a

1179
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:13,200
Speaker 2: misstatement at the very least, it's unclear as to why

1180
00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:15,280
Speaker 2: that misstatement was made. But I'm going to quote from

1181
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:19,040
Speaker 2: reporter John Cohen here. Okay, the doctor's dictation, the doctor

1182
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:21,640
Speaker 2: who inspected the kids transcribed the day after the exam

1183
00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:25,680
Speaker 2: cautiously described possible sexual abuse of one boy and one girl.

1184
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:29,320
Speaker 2: He described abnormal characteristics of one girl's hymen and one

1185
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:32,360
Speaker 2: boy's anus that might be evidence of assault, but we're

1186
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:36,040
Speaker 2: not diagnostic of it. In other words, the doctor did

1187
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:38,360
Speaker 2: his job. He looked at these kids, and he found

1188
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:42,720
Speaker 2: two kids who had physical symptoms that might have been

1189
00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:44,760
Speaker 2: the result of past sexual abuse. But here's the thing.

1190
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:48,040
Speaker 2: You know, the hymen, we know that, like that is

1191
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:51,000
Speaker 2: a thing that can be broken when somebody with a

1192
00:58:51,080 --> 00:58:54,920
Speaker 2: vagina loses their virginity. But like horseback riding.

1193
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:57,520
Speaker 4: You, yeah, it's like you could go Jamis Dowell and

1194
00:58:57,640 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 4: break it on a bike seat.

1195
00:58:59,120 --> 00:59:02,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, on a bike seat, very painful. Likewise, this boy

1196
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:06,480
Speaker 2: there were characteristics of irritation in his anus that sometimes

1197
00:59:06,560 --> 00:59:09,040
Speaker 2: are evidence of past of sexual abuse. But also like

1198
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:12,600
Speaker 2: if you have diarrhea, because like the guys watching you

1199
00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:16,520
Speaker 2: are like feeding you old vegetables and like don't not

1200
00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:19,320
Speaker 2: not really giving you a good diet, perhaps your aanus

1201
00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:22,040
Speaker 2: becomes irritated. Right, it's not diagnostic.

1202
00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:25,000
Speaker 4: We don't know sure, and I hate that, like we

1203
00:59:25,080 --> 00:59:28,000
Speaker 4: have to get into like the what about ism of

1204
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:31,400
Speaker 4: like determining what constitutes child abuse and like all it's

1205
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:34,600
Speaker 4: just so I don't know, and especially in the during

1206
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:38,280
Speaker 4: this era with the Satanic panic, there's like just a

1207
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:43,480
Speaker 4: whole history of sensationalism and and that goes through the

1208
00:59:43,520 --> 00:59:46,439
Speaker 4: quan On era. That just it just makes it makes

1209
00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:51,959
Speaker 4: me so mad because it just like cases like this

1210
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:57,760
Speaker 4: lead to like real act like actual allegations being completely

1211
00:59:57,800 --> 01:00:01,080
Speaker 4: blown off, and like that's why these movements are so

1212
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:04,080
Speaker 4: counter intuitive to actually, I mean, I know, I'm like

1213
01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:06,400
Speaker 4: a broken record with this shit. It's just it's so

1214
01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:09,680
Speaker 4: unbelievably frustrating that it's like you have to get that

1215
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:14,040
Speaker 4: granular to you know, make sure that these children are

1216
01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:18,400
Speaker 4: actually safe without empowering a fucking cult that they like.

1217
01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:23,960
Speaker 8: It's just yeah, it's it's very frustrating because like what

1218
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:26,680
Speaker 8: the doctor has done here is his job, which is like, yeah,

1219
01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:29,520
Speaker 8: we should look into what's happening to these kids more

1220
01:00:29,560 --> 01:00:32,480
Speaker 8: because this could be evidence of sexual abuse, which is

1221
01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:35,680
Speaker 8: a responsible thing to say a health in Human Services

1222
01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:38,960
Speaker 8: rep here's that and then just says, yep, we've confirmed

1223
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:39,840
Speaker 8: two kids were raped.

1224
01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:42,280
Speaker 2: And then the cops say, yep, we've confirmed one kid

1225
01:00:42,320 --> 01:00:46,520
Speaker 2: was raped. It's just this like this chain of every

1226
01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:50,000
Speaker 2: adult but the doctor in this situation just being dipshits.

1227
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:53,640
Speaker 2: And as a result, suddenly the news comes out and

1228
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:57,640
Speaker 2: America believes these men were caught taking kids to Mexico

1229
01:00:57,680 --> 01:01:01,080
Speaker 2: and molesting them, Right, and then that's confirmed we know that, right,

1230
01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:04,960
Speaker 2: which is not the case? Now? Is this evidence of

1231
01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:08,440
Speaker 2: abuse or neglect? Definitely neglect. I think we definitely have

1232
01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:13,520
Speaker 2: neglect here, right, Absolutely, that's clear. Maybe even abuse would

1233
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:15,760
Speaker 2: not be impossible that one or both of the men

1234
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:19,040
Speaker 2: traveling with these kids did something fucked up too, But

1235
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:20,680
Speaker 2: they will be found innocent.

1236
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:22,400
Speaker 3: Well and because well.

1237
01:01:22,600 --> 01:01:25,480
Speaker 4: And that sounds like it's completely because of how incompetent

1238
01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:28,040
Speaker 4: the investigation is.

1239
01:01:28,520 --> 01:01:32,200
Speaker 2: Yes, so you know, I would say you should probably

1240
01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:35,800
Speaker 2: investigate further when something you know, like this happens before

1241
01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:38,120
Speaker 2: you talk to the press. But the police just go

1242
01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:40,040
Speaker 2: to the press and say, yep, we've confirmed a kid

1243
01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:42,440
Speaker 2: was raped, and the press is off to the races.

1244
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:45,920
Speaker 2: I'm gonna quote here from that city paper article. The

1245
01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:49,200
Speaker 2: Miami Herald and Washington Post ran page one stories three

1246
01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:52,160
Speaker 2: days in a row. The stated New York Times reported

1247
01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:54,560
Speaker 2: that some have described the finders as bizarre cult of

1248
01:01:54,640 --> 01:01:57,680
Speaker 2: devil worshippers. Everyone got it on the Act, Connie Chung,

1249
01:01:57,760 --> 01:02:01,240
Speaker 2: Larry King, CNN, even the BBC, and like that's so

1250
01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:03,440
Speaker 2: from the New York Times. That's such a fucking New

1251
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:06,720
Speaker 2: York Times thing to be like, well, there's no evidence

1252
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:10,480
Speaker 2: of anything yet, just a very unclear case. But some

1253
01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:13,920
Speaker 2: random lady in Florida said they're Satanists. So let's just

1254
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:17,240
Speaker 2: say some have described them as a cult of devil worshippers.

1255
01:02:17,160 --> 01:02:19,560
Speaker 3: Are talking about Yeah, do the.

1256
01:02:19,560 --> 01:02:21,240
Speaker 2: People say know anything?

1257
01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:26,840
Speaker 4: No, but it's just like the most like satanic panic sensational.

1258
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:31,520
Speaker 3: I mean that still continues, but that's yeah, and it's like.

1259
01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:33,960
Speaker 4: For what this is Like this sounds like the first

1260
01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:39,360
Speaker 4: time in media at least where there is some purpose

1261
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:44,040
Speaker 4: being ascribed to this cult, Like yeah, you know, they

1262
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:46,000
Speaker 4: maybe they were relieved to find out that they were

1263
01:02:46,040 --> 01:02:48,160
Speaker 4: evil Satanist because they're like, we're not really sure what

1264
01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:49,320
Speaker 4: we were supposed.

1265
01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:49,480
Speaker 3: To be doing.

1266
01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:51,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's uh, we just let.

1267
01:02:51,760 --> 01:02:55,840
Speaker 4: This grave robbing child like gamify our lives for some reason.

1268
01:02:55,880 --> 01:02:57,520
Speaker 4: And now we're starting Baby.

1269
01:02:57,200 --> 01:03:01,400
Speaker 2: Harvard to be to be a conspiracy here. Again, it's

1270
01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:06,080
Speaker 2: not beyond possibility that Petty was the one who orchestrated

1271
01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:09,000
Speaker 2: the call to the police because he wanted to create

1272
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:13,520
Speaker 2: a media circus, Like that's not impossible. I don't have

1273
01:03:13,560 --> 01:03:16,680
Speaker 2: any evidence for it, but he he's going to send

1274
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:19,560
Speaker 2: once the press gets on this. He has some members

1275
01:03:19,600 --> 01:03:23,040
Speaker 2: of the finders give statements to the media that are

1276
01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:29,720
Speaker 2: like purposefully crazy or bizarre, like usually not just like

1277
01:03:29,720 --> 01:03:33,120
Speaker 2: like unhinged, but like weird in a way that will

1278
01:03:33,120 --> 01:03:35,640
Speaker 2: make people more suspicious because it's part of a game

1279
01:03:35,680 --> 01:03:39,280
Speaker 2: to him, like these women's six women's children have been

1280
01:03:39,320 --> 01:03:42,880
Speaker 2: taken into custody, or multiple women's children because I think

1281
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:45,120
Speaker 2: one of them had two have been taken into custody

1282
01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:47,880
Speaker 2: and are wards of the state for a period of weeks.

1283
01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:52,320
Speaker 2: Their mothers can't take them home. And he's like, I'm

1284
01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:55,200
Speaker 2: a Mary Pranks to let's keep fucking with the press.

1285
01:03:56,600 --> 01:04:00,600
Speaker 2: We'll give the police conflicting statements. Ha, what fun this

1286
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:03,480
Speaker 2: all is. As these moms are like losing their minds

1287
01:04:03,480 --> 01:04:05,040
Speaker 2: because their kids are locked away from them.

1288
01:04:05,160 --> 01:04:06,640
Speaker 3: It's their fucking kids.

1289
01:04:07,200 --> 01:04:09,240
Speaker 4: And then also that it makes it clear that like

1290
01:04:09,600 --> 01:04:12,280
Speaker 4: to whatever degree this neglect or abuse is happening, he

1291
01:04:12,240 --> 01:04:13,040
Speaker 4: doesn't give a shit.

1292
01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:16,840
Speaker 3: He's like couseplaying as like the fucking lobotomy joke.

1293
01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:20,760
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, like Jamie, I'm not a great person. Do

1294
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:24,240
Speaker 2: I think it sounds fun to convince the police that

1295
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:28,160
Speaker 2: you're like running some sort of satanic conspiracy. Of course,

1296
01:04:28,720 --> 01:04:32,080
Speaker 2: but once children get taken by the State of Florida,

1297
01:04:32,160 --> 01:04:33,720
Speaker 2: it's time to stop playing.

1298
01:04:34,080 --> 01:04:37,120
Speaker 3: If you don't want children in the clutches of the

1299
01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:38,280
Speaker 3: State of Florida.

1300
01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:40,880
Speaker 2: That's even worse than these guys watching them.

1301
01:04:41,000 --> 01:04:43,840
Speaker 3: Right, the situation keeps getting worse.

1302
01:04:44,680 --> 01:04:47,720
Speaker 2: Uh, it is very funny. The police are clearly like

1303
01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:50,440
Speaker 2: just thrilled that they're getting all this attention. There's like

1304
01:04:50,520 --> 01:04:52,680
Speaker 2: quotes from police officials about like I'm gonna be on

1305
01:04:52,760 --> 01:04:56,840
Speaker 2: Connie Chung hot Dog, so like, yeah, you won't be

1306
01:04:56,880 --> 01:04:59,439
Speaker 2: surprised to hear that. Like, as this becomes a huge

1307
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:02,720
Speaker 2: media thing, the police who'd kind of been like, let's

1308
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:05,080
Speaker 2: figure out what's happening. It's not super clear what's going on.

1309
01:05:05,160 --> 01:05:07,600
Speaker 2: Let's do an investigation aer immediately, Like all right, it

1310
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:09,960
Speaker 2: is time to carry out a series of raids across

1311
01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:15,000
Speaker 2: the country on every property these people own, because you know,

1312
01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:17,760
Speaker 2: this might be this could be a career maker, right

1313
01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:21,520
Speaker 2: if this is a devil sex cult thing, we could

1314
01:05:21,560 --> 01:05:25,800
Speaker 2: really do well by getting big on this stuff. And

1315
01:05:26,040 --> 01:05:28,400
Speaker 2: you know, so a series of raids are launched, the

1316
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:31,080
Speaker 2: police start going after finders' properties, you know, up in

1317
01:05:31,080 --> 01:05:34,520
Speaker 2: the northeast around the DC area, and because these kids

1318
01:05:34,520 --> 01:05:37,800
Speaker 2: have crossed state lines and there's allegations at least there's

1319
01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:41,800
Speaker 2: some sort of child trafficking going on, that's interstate commerce.

1320
01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:45,200
Speaker 2: And when interstate commerce gets involved, that means that the

1321
01:05:45,240 --> 01:05:48,120
Speaker 2: FEDS who are going to get involved are the Customs Department, right,

1322
01:05:48,440 --> 01:05:51,720
Speaker 2: So it's Customs that's carrying out a lot of these raids,

1323
01:05:52,160 --> 01:05:54,480
Speaker 2: and that's going to be a real problem because one

1324
01:05:54,520 --> 01:05:57,560
Speaker 2: of the customs agents who gets involved in this is

1325
01:05:57,560 --> 01:06:02,680
Speaker 2: a shall we say, conspiracy int and he's really gonna

1326
01:06:03,120 --> 01:06:06,760
Speaker 2: really gonna cause some fun for us in the next part.

1327
01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:10,200
Speaker 2: But Jamie, yes, that's all we've got for this week.

1328
01:06:10,240 --> 01:06:11,439
Speaker 2: I think there's gonna be one more.

1329
01:06:11,520 --> 01:06:13,600
Speaker 3: That's a lot, that's a lot more.

1330
01:06:13,600 --> 01:06:16,080
Speaker 2: Maybe two, but probably just one. But we'll get to

1331
01:06:16,120 --> 01:06:18,640
Speaker 2: that next week. This week, this we're done.

1332
01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:21,000
Speaker 4: This is a queasy This is this This is a

1333
01:06:21,040 --> 01:06:26,680
Speaker 4: fucking queasy one. Like there's so many, so many conversations

1334
01:06:26,720 --> 01:06:29,560
Speaker 4: we've had over the years are just straight up clearly bad.

1335
01:06:29,640 --> 01:06:32,920
Speaker 4: This one is like it feels. It doesn't feel like

1336
01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:36,480
Speaker 4: it happened thirty five years ago. It feels like it

1337
01:06:36,920 --> 01:06:42,440
Speaker 4: happened recently. Unfortunately, this stinks. I'll bravely say this stinks.

1338
01:06:42,920 --> 01:06:46,280
Speaker 2: Well that's good. I agree it does stink, but you

1339
01:06:46,280 --> 01:06:51,920
Speaker 2: know it doesn't stink. Jamie. What podcasts, particularly the podcast

1340
01:06:52,040 --> 01:06:54,040
Speaker 2: you're about to launch for us?

1341
01:06:54,280 --> 01:06:54,920
Speaker 3: It's true?

1342
01:06:55,080 --> 01:06:57,680
Speaker 2: Are you yeah? What are you doing on that podcast? Jamie?

1343
01:06:57,760 --> 01:06:58,520
Speaker 2: What are you gonna be doing?

1344
01:06:58,920 --> 01:06:59,760
Speaker 3: Thanks for the tea up.

1345
01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:04,280
Speaker 4: Well, I've got a new show coming out on cool

1346
01:07:04,360 --> 01:07:07,520
Speaker 4: Zone Media. Ever heard of it that you and Sophie

1347
01:07:07,680 --> 01:07:09,280
Speaker 4: are letting me make.

1348
01:07:10,720 --> 01:07:15,600
Speaker 3: It's called fifteen Minutes. It is about some of the.

1349
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:19,440
Speaker 4: Most notorious, particularly main characters of the Internet, but the

1350
01:07:19,640 --> 01:07:24,520
Speaker 4: people who had a strong impression on people for one

1351
01:07:24,640 --> 01:07:28,080
Speaker 4: or two days, and we see where they're at, what

1352
01:07:28,240 --> 01:07:30,400
Speaker 4: happened to them, if they had impact on the world,

1353
01:07:30,440 --> 01:07:34,479
Speaker 4: and if they are upset that they are remembered, as

1354
01:07:34,640 --> 01:07:38,280
Speaker 4: for instance, thirty to fifty Faral Hogs guy who I

1355
01:07:38,360 --> 01:07:40,400
Speaker 4: intend to maybe get justice for.

1356
01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:42,600
Speaker 3: I don't know. We got to talk to him. But anyways,

1357
01:07:42,600 --> 01:07:43,240
Speaker 3: that comes out in.

1358
01:07:43,200 --> 01:07:47,760
Speaker 1: March, and Jamie, is that a weekly podcast.

1359
01:07:48,520 --> 01:07:52,680
Speaker 3: Oh yeah it is. And it's a weekly podcast.

1360
01:07:53,120 --> 01:07:56,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, because there's just so many of these motherfuckers.

1361
01:07:56,200 --> 01:07:58,840
Speaker 1: I often get asked, how do we get more Jamie

1362
01:07:58,880 --> 01:08:02,320
Speaker 1: Loftus and it's You're Greenland Weekly Dreaming Loftice podcast.

1363
01:08:02,360 --> 01:08:05,000
Speaker 4: You're welcome, Yes, and soon you'll never be asking that

1364
01:08:05,080 --> 01:08:05,680
Speaker 4: question again.

1365
01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:09,760
Speaker 3: You'll be asking could I have less? And how do

1366
01:08:09,840 --> 01:08:13,160
Speaker 3: I avoid? And I'm happy to help out there as well.

1367
01:08:14,920 --> 01:08:19,840
Speaker 2: Well, that's all a good time. Well, everybody that's going

1368
01:08:19,920 --> 01:08:21,960
Speaker 2: to do it for us here at Behind the Bastards

1369
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:25,400
Speaker 2: this week, you know, until next week. If you start

1370
01:08:25,479 --> 01:08:28,519
Speaker 2: what might be some sort of sex cult or might

1371
01:08:28,720 --> 01:08:32,200
Speaker 2: just be basically D and D for you and your friends,

1372
01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:36,400
Speaker 2: don't let children get taken into custody by the State

1373
01:08:36,479 --> 01:08:38,519
Speaker 2: of Florida. It's not worth it.

1374
01:08:38,600 --> 01:08:40,800
Speaker 3: Just the thought, the one takeaway.

1375
01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:45,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's where I am.

1376
01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:46,760
Speaker 7: Bhie.

1377
01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:52,679
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1378
01:08:53,040 --> 01:08:55,679
Speaker 1: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool

1379
01:08:55,760 --> 01:08:59,440
Speaker 1: Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio

1380
01:08:59,479 --> 01:09:00,000
Speaker 1: app

1381
01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:02,120
Speaker 3: Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.