WEBVTT - Conservative Depravity 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:14.360 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wik f Daily with 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:19.600 Meet your Girl Danny L. Moody recording on the road. Actually, folks, 0:00:20.960 --> 0:00:26.960 the last couple of weeks have really opened my eyes 0:00:27.760 --> 0:00:39.000 to wear universities loyalty lies. Right. We send young people 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:47.680 to hire institutions, right, to hire ed institutions in order 0:00:47.760 --> 0:00:52.320 to have them think critically about the world around them, 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:56.600 how they're going to choose how to build a profession 0:00:57.520 --> 0:01:01.920 right with the information that they learn that they are 0:01:02.280 --> 0:01:08.120 supposed to be these you know, microcosms of the world 0:01:08.160 --> 0:01:11.400 around us, but really a place where you can really 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:15.520 delve into critical thought and then exercise what it is 0:01:15.560 --> 0:01:19.280 that you learn. But what we have seen over the 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:24.039 last couple of weeks as the protests on college campuses 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:32.440 have grown in their response to wanting universities to one 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:40.920 be transparent about their investments, two to divest investments from 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:48.520 Israel that are contributing to death and destruction. Right, how 0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:54.800 I've been framing this is that college tuition has gone 0:01:54.920 --> 0:02:02.680 up two levels once unheard of in like the six 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:05.800 figures to send your kid to school for a fucking 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:08.840 year because you're told that if you don't have a 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:12.000 college degree, right, then you're never gonna get a good job. 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:17.639 But honestly, I'm really starting to look at these institutions 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:21.640 as just one big fucking Ponzi scheme, because what it 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:24.480 has become is an apparatus for young people to go 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:28.400 into debt, right, and like extraordinary debt, not like a 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:30.480 little bit of debt that gets paid off in a 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:33.640 couple of years. But you're talking about high six figures 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:37.079 worth of fucking debt. Because unless you are the super rich, 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:42.800 I don't know who can afford these college numbers. So 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:48.280 when now students are looking around, they're saying, so I 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:54.120 basically and myself and my family are going into extraordinary debt, 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:57.600 and I'm not supposed to have a say on where 0:02:57.639 --> 0:03:00.120 that fucking money is going, Like I'm not supposed to 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:03.919 know or ask questions. And then when I do, all 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:07.200 of a sudden, I'm the problem and not the institution. 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:12.960 So you have these places that are supposed to be 0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:22.480 the you know, thought cells of the future, right future 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:32.160 industry leaders now being arrested for exercising their right to 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:36.640 free speech, their right to assemble, and their right to 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:43.080 question the very institution who, without their tuitions wouldn't exist. 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:47.240 But now it turns out that universities really don't give 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:51.760 a fuck about their students, who they see as disposable. 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:57.720 What they really do care about are those endowments. And 0:03:57.800 --> 0:04:01.120 as it would turn out, those endowments argually come from 0:04:01.480 --> 0:04:06.160 quote unquote conservatives who are on the side of Donald 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:08.840 Trump and the Republicans and don't believe in free speech, 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:14.040 don't believe in the right to protest, don't believe in democracy. 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:21.080 And so now you have these universities being quote unquote 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:29.800 pressured by major donors to quell critical thought and protests 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:36.400 and democratic values on college campuses. Folks, this is what 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:42.800 the right has always wanted. When you look at textbook fascism, 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:49.440 who do they go for first, Right, They go after 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:54.120 the academics, they go after the students, because without those thinkers, 0:04:55.680 --> 0:05:02.800 what you're left with, right, are the workers. And so 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:07.880 those that are more likely or easily to be controlled 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:13.479 because they're locked into an economic status that does not 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:23.360 afford them the luxury of thinking abstractly and big about 0:05:23.400 --> 0:05:30.240 our critical issues. So it you know, as I see 0:05:30.240 --> 0:05:34.520 this crackdown happening, and as young people are making the 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:39.760 decisions this very month, right about what colleges and universities 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:42.520 they're going to be going to where they want to enroll. 0:05:43.440 --> 0:05:45.599 You know, for those of you who are listening to 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:50.960 this that have high school's age kids or college age kids, 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:54.880 they need to really think about what institutions that they 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:57.400 are going to. You know, one of the things that 0:05:57.440 --> 0:06:01.240 I will say too, that was just recently in the 0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:06.240 news is that Howard University, right, one of the historically 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:12.159 black colleges and universities in Washington, DC, has seen an 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:19.320 uptick of about fifty percent in applications. Thirty seven thousand 0:06:19.960 --> 0:06:25.080 young people applied to attend Howard University. Now, Howard has 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:27.719 been in the news for a whole host of other reasons, 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:33.120 as it pertains to mishandling of funds and low investment 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:38.760 into student housing and just horrific things that we have 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:43.159 seen horrific housing conditions. But what it goes to show 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:46.520 you is that as you're seeing arise in white supremacy 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:50.960 and fascism, that young black people are saying they don't 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:54.360 want to go to predominantly white institutions or pwise, they 0:06:54.400 --> 0:06:58.920 would rather go to HBCUs. And so again, as we're 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:03.279 thinking about the few of colleges and universities. I think 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:07.960 that this is a really critical moment, right. The prices 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:14.920 are skyrocketing, the democratic values are taking are plummeting, right, 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:20.040 and young people are trapped someplace in between. There has 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:25.760 never been student protests that were on the wrong side 0:07:25.760 --> 0:07:32.240 of history, right. So, whether it be the civil rights movement, 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:37.760 the Vietnam War, apartheid in South Africa that brought on 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:42.840 mass protests at colleges and universities, they were always on 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:49.280 the right side. So I would think really hard if 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:54.480 I am the current administration, if I am current members 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:58.880 of Congress, about who I'm going to be cracking down on. 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:05.480 Coming up next, dear friends, my conversation with our friend 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:09.440 Jennifer Tobb, who makes her return to wok F Daily 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:19.720 to break down the latest legal woes of Donald Trump. Folks, 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:23.840 it has been far, far too long since we have 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:30.480 had a friend of the show, gentile law professor, author 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:35.120 of Big Dirty Money on wok F Daily, and I'm 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:39.080 so appreciative to have you back to have some of 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:45.840 your time because the legal news. I honestly I don't 0:08:45.880 --> 0:08:49.000 know how professors are teaching right now, and every time 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:53.320 that I have either a professor of political science a 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:57.800 law professor on I'm just like, I don't even know 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:00.280 how you make sense of what's happening. But what I 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:05.840 will say is the Supreme Court, this unelected body of 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:11.160 nine black robes that reigns over the rest of us 0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:19.280 without any repercussions, without any I don't know. I guess 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:23.400 I didn't realize Jen that there was just like no 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:26.520 safety valve when it came to the Supreme Court. And 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:32.440 so right now as we're speaking, you have the immunity case, 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:38.679 Presidential immunity oral arguments are happening. You have the Idaho 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:44.480 emergency abortion case that is happening. Not to mention what 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:47.079 is on their slate as they barrel towards the end 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:52.559 of their term in July. It's wild as fuck. And 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:55.800 so as like, I guess I'll just say, the question 0:09:55.960 --> 0:10:00.040 is what are we doing here? Like, how do the 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:04.120 Supreme Court even decide to take up this immunity case 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:06.560 and pretend that they're not in the pocket of Donald Trump? 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:09.559 And I guess it doesn't really matter, right, It doesn't 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:14.000 matter if they're overt covert. It doesn't matter because on 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:17.439 either side, will they ever be held accountable for anything? 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:21.480 There is so much in there. There are many questions 0:10:21.520 --> 0:10:23.120 that I'm going to start with the very first one, 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:25.360 which I loved. You said, how to professors? How are 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:27.840 they teaching? And my last day of teaching was Monday. 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:32.600 So that's how I am dealing with this. But I 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:35.280 have to tell you, you know that I'm a follow the 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:37.560 money person and you know, sort of a you know, 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:42.560 obsessive on Trump finding justice because he is a white 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:45.160 collar criminal has gotten away with it. But the thing 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:47.480 that is the most upsetting to me, that I couldn't 0:10:47.600 --> 0:10:50.760 listen to and couldn't even read about till this morning, 0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:54.000 was that Idaho m TALA case. AMTALA is standing for 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:58.160 that federal law emergency what is it, Emergency Medical Treatment 0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:02.240 and Labor Act, because it's visceral, you know, Danielle, I 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:05.360 mean I feel it. You know, I have been through 0:11:05.480 --> 0:11:08.800 a very dangerous labor. I know what it's like to 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:14.360 have to have an emergency intervention. Thank goodness, everybody survived. 0:11:14.480 --> 0:11:20.000 I also feel for these, you know, people who go 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:24.439 in you know, pregnant and are hoping for you know, 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:29.840 the continuation of their pregnancy and are in critical condition 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:32.360 or I shouldn't even say critical, or in a dangerous 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:35.480 condition where it's clear the pregnancy isn't going to survive, 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:38.439 but there is a chance for them to give birth 0:11:38.440 --> 0:11:41.880 in the future. But if you wait and don't perform 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:46.360 the abortion, you could damage their reproductive organs forever. So 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:47.480 for you know, there are a lot of people who 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:50.880 will say who are anti abortion. They'll say, you know, 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:54.280 I wouldn't be alive if my mother had had an abortion. Well, 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:55.760 there are a lot of people who wouldn't be alive 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:59.800 if their mother hadn't been given a medically necessary abortion. 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:03.640 And certainly people even if it wasn't medically necessary, which 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:05.440 has nothing to do with the Idaho case, there are 0:12:05.440 --> 0:12:08.120 people who aren't ready to be parents, and if they 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:10.400 had been parents, that future child wouldn't be born. So 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:14.320 all this stuff, I think the access to abortion is 0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:17.520 the pro life position, and we can see that really 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:21.240 clearly here pro women's life. If you are a pregnant 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:24.959 person and you can shape your destiny, you should not 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:28.680 have to be in sepsis, near death with organ failure 0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:32.880 in order for a doctor to perform an abortion on you. 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:37.800 And I was shocked to hear that in Idaho they're 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:40.320 trying to gaslight us. The argument saying, oh, there's no 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:42.920 you know that if there's no big thing here. And 0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:45.199 the Idaho law is the same as a federal law 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:47.800 that how come over six women or at least six 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:52.960 women have been airlifted from Idaho to other states so 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:56.040 they could get treatment. The reason why this federal law 0:12:56.080 --> 0:12:59.840 exists it's not just for emergency abortions. It's also for 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:04.520 any emergency condition because in this mostly affected poor women, 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:08.120 poor women, poor black women especially. You come to the 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:11.800 a hospital emergency room in distress. You might not be pregnant, 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:14.280 it could be something else, and hospitals could turn you 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:15.520 away if you didn't have insurance. 0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:18.480 Now they have been doing. Now they have to stabilize you. 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:20.600 And by the way, this isn't just you know for 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:22.800 people who are like, well, I'm not a poor person, 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:26.120 why should I care. It's about you too, because different 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:29.560 insurance plans, the hospitals will say, well, will you sign 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:32.079 right here to agree to pick up any charges your 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:35.200 insurance does. Well, before you even know what those charges 0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:37.760 could be. They could be outsourcing the anesthetic, They could 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:40.480 be doing things that could cost you tens of thousands, 0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:43.080 if not hundreds of thousands of dollars that you have 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:45.720 now ruined your entire family for because they're forcing you 0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:48.480 to sign that, or they're forcing your spouse to sign 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:51.320 that just to stabilize you so you won't die, and 0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:55.520 that is coercive in this law, you know, is meant 0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:58.000 to deal with all of that. And so for me, 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:01.680 what I heard about the argument yesterday and this in 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:06.040 the case, was it only the women justices were actually 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:10.320 carry at all about the lives of people coming into 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:12.520 hospitals in danger. 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:15.920 And you know, I just. 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:20.120 It's really hard when you think, you know, it's hardwin 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:24.120 dabs overturned, mov wade. This takes it to this next level. 0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:27.840 And if they cannot uphold this federal statute, then a 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:31.960 federal law allowing abortion nationwide will not be uphelp. These 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:33.600 things are all linked as well. 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:38.120 It's just, you know, what I realized listening to Alito 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:45.120 in particular, is the depravity, Yes, is the depravity and 0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:51.760 the cruelty of these male justices that have no idea 0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:55.520 what you know. And I feel like it was somebody 0:14:55.520 --> 0:15:00.000 on cable news who said, you know, it's like they 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:04.880 leave the Hallmark, fairytale, fucking Disney version of pregnancy and 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:08.080 birth right like in Alito's mind, like what what what 0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:10.520 do you mean emergency? Doesn't the stork come to your door? 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:14.120 Like that's the kind of bullshit that they offer, and 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:19.640 it just shows you, Like the male justices were in 0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:24.840 conversation about the particulars around the law, and the women 0:15:25.200 --> 0:15:29.160 justices are talking about the reality on the ground of 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:34.040 women and their bodies and the fact that pregnancy is 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:37.840 a high risk situation totally, and it doesn't matter if 0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:40.400 you are old or you're young. You are what do 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:42.960 they say, you are never a woman is never closer 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:46.720 to death than when she is giving birth. 0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:48.400 Absolutely yes. 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:52.400 And so the fact that we are a developed nation 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:56.000 with all of the tools and the science and the 0:15:56.040 --> 0:16:01.880 medical know how that has made maternal care and birthing 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:06.120 easier for women. For the Republican Party and these right 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:09.400 wing fascist judges to turn around and say, well, we 0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:13.840 don't really care. Right for Alito to profess himself to 0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:16.800 be some type of fucking medical expert, I'm like, you 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:19.840 went to law school, bro, you didn't go to medical school. 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:22.840 So you don't see me coming to your job and 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:25.280 telling you how to do it right because you don't 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:28.000 actually don't know how to do it. So I just wonder, 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:33.160 like the polling jen polls come out ah Supreme Courts 0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:37.000 in the toilet. We all know about Clarence Thomas and 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:39.960 the grifting, but there's nothing we can do about it, 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:42.680 and there's nothing we do do about it. As they 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:49.280 take us back to literally the dark ages, they might 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:51.520 as well take us back to the law that was 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:56.120 just narrowly overturned in Arizona in the House, with the 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:59.400 eighteen sixty four law that they have on abortion. 0:16:59.800 --> 0:17:02.560 Yeah, the Comstock Act that they're trying to use. 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:06.760 Yes. Yeah. So I'm just like, we have no what's 0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:09.080 the recourse? What is the recourse? 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:14.520 You know, I'm always looking for these, you know, I 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:17.720 want to answer your question and not fight the hypothetical 0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:20.560 and find something good to say. And I think the 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:26.400 only recourse is making sure that you know that Joe 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:31.320 Biden wins and that he in his next term expands 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:37.119 the Court to thirteen justices, because we have essentially thirteen circuits, 0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:42.360 and because several of these justices, the ones who facilitated 0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:47.159 the end of Roe v. Wade, I believe, deceived Congress 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:49.719 when they were at the Senate, when they were at 0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:52.720 their hearings. Number one, so you can't, you know. I 0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:56.120 think that's step one expanding the court. And I think 0:17:56.160 --> 0:18:00.840 step two is we really have to fight countries have 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:05.080 for a nationwide law that allows for abortion. We cannot 0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:08.399 do this state by state thing. It's not safe for 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:11.200 any of us. And it's barbaric. And we can see 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:13.919 where this is going, you know, and this idea that 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:16.520 women are merely this sort of vehicle and if there's 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:20.160 any blood or guts involved in giving birth, that's on you, 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:23.160 Like you should just pop this baby out like it's 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:26.320 like like you're a plastic doll and the baby's popping 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:29.960 out of some you know, plastic hole and there's no blood, 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:32.320 there's no guts, and it's like Barbie Land. You know that, No, 0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:35.680 that is not that is not what this is. And 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:40.000 you know it's it's our lives depend upon this, you know. 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:43.240 This is I always thought when people were referring to 0:18:43.320 --> 0:18:47.919 the Handmaid's Tail that it was a little okay, a 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:48.840 little too too. 0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:51.320 And that's where we are. 0:18:51.240 --> 0:18:52.840 Right now, and it's frightening. 0:18:58.240 --> 0:19:00.440 I want to switch gears, staying on the Supreme Court, 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:05.720 but just switching cases, which is the presidential immunity case 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:09.240 that as of the time of this recording is being heard, 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:14.879 and you know, Jack Smith, the Special Council, had asked 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:21.280 back in December for the Supreme Court to hear this 0:19:21.480 --> 0:19:24.960 case because he knew where it was headed and he 0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:29.160 wanted to get ahead of the curve. The Supreme Court said, nah, 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:31.520 we'll just kick it back to the lower court. Lower 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:34.280 court makes a decision and says, yeah, presidents don't have 0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:37.680 full immunity, and now kicked up to the Supreme Court 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:41.360 and they're like, maybe we'll hear it, you know, when 0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:44.760 the cherry blossoms come out. Right. So here we are. 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:49.680 I'm listening, as you're listening, tell me your thoughts on 0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:54.359 what you're hearing. And to me, I'm like, if I 0:19:54.440 --> 0:19:57.480 was a lawyer, the only question that would be posed 0:19:57.480 --> 0:20:01.920 would be, so, how do the other forty four presidents 0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:06.000 serve without presidential immunity? Like how were they able to 0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:09.399 serve over the last two hundred and fifty years of 0:20:09.440 --> 0:20:13.879 this country before this criminal comes and now all of 0:20:13.880 --> 0:20:18.840 a sudden, we need presidential immunity. Something the Framers never offered. 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:22.439 Well, not to argue for their lawyer, but his lawyer 0:20:22.480 --> 0:20:24.960 would probably say, oh, they already had it. We just 0:20:25.000 --> 0:20:26.960 never tested it, so that's what their lawyer would say. 0:20:26.960 --> 0:20:30.359 But so you know, when I'm when I'm listening to this, 0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:36.040 you know, I'm listening carefully, but also like you know, 0:20:36.119 --> 0:20:38.600 on my Twitter or in like little you know, in 0:20:38.640 --> 0:20:42.359 little chat groups. And it's interesting the different you know, 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:46.560 the people who have argued numerous pieces before the Supreme Court. 0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:49.840 I you know, I trust them, but I also trust 0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:52.000 my I wouldn't call myself a labors and because I'm 0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:54.560 a law professor, but I'm not a constitutional lawyer. So 0:20:54.640 --> 0:20:58.480 I'm listening. I think more like a member of the public, 0:20:58.560 --> 0:21:02.080 and I think that I guess there's takeaways. I'm going 0:21:02.119 --> 0:21:04.760 to give you the most practical thing first, The most 0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:08.680 practical thing, which I've always been listening for, is are 0:21:08.680 --> 0:21:12.560 they going to decide this it quickly enough and in 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:15.920 such a way that allows Judge Chuckkin to move forward 0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:21.639 immediately and you know, finish the discovery period and start 0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:24.880 the trial. That's like the practical thing I'm looking for, right, 0:21:25.359 --> 0:21:28.600 And from what I hear, that doesn't appear like it's 0:21:28.640 --> 0:21:31.439 going to happen. It could, but we'll talk about that. So, 0:21:31.600 --> 0:21:35.800 you know, justice delayed, justice denied. Right. The second thing. 0:21:36.080 --> 0:21:38.520 And this is more of the you know sort of 0:21:39.920 --> 0:21:43.680 What is the most striking and shocking thing is that 0:21:43.800 --> 0:21:50.480 when Elena Kagan asks Trump's lawyer whether if a president 0:21:51.600 --> 0:21:55.359 had staged a coup against the United States while he 0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:57.159 was president in order to try to stay in office 0:21:57.640 --> 0:22:01.240 but then it was unsuccessful, could you, after he was 0:22:01.280 --> 0:22:06.760 out of office prosecute him for that crime? And this 0:22:06.960 --> 0:22:09.400 answer that he gave came out in several different parts 0:22:09.440 --> 0:22:14.280 because other justices followed up, including KBJ and Barrett. His 0:22:14.440 --> 0:22:17.840 answer was, the only way that you could prosecute a 0:22:17.880 --> 0:22:21.320 formal president for having broken the law by staging a 0:22:21.359 --> 0:22:27.480 coup would be if first House impeached and the Senate convicted. 0:22:27.840 --> 0:22:30.960 And wait, but there's more, so that that alone, and 0:22:31.119 --> 0:22:34.479 he said that that would probably Keke and said, well, 0:22:34.480 --> 0:22:38.160 do you consider that a private act or an official act? 0:22:38.359 --> 0:22:40.000 And he said, well, it depends on all the context, 0:22:40.040 --> 0:22:42.960 but it might be an official act. Okay, with there's more, 0:22:43.960 --> 0:22:47.320 and then you get later Barrett and then KBJ, you know, 0:22:47.400 --> 0:22:51.879 and as as Trump's lawyer further aside, and on top 0:22:51.960 --> 0:22:55.600 of all of this, if you were able to prosecute him, 0:22:55.680 --> 0:22:59.120 because if it were considered a private act, you would 0:22:59.160 --> 0:23:04.560 need a stack that explicitly said, and this also applies 0:23:04.600 --> 0:23:09.320 to the president, not just anyone else. So you know, 0:23:09.480 --> 0:23:14.119 that was to me the most outrageous argument he made. 0:23:14.440 --> 0:23:17.480 Now the most important the legal thing, which my friend 0:23:17.480 --> 0:23:21.280 Steve Vladdock pointed out, I think both in his tweets 0:23:21.280 --> 0:23:25.600 and privately, the most significant thing was that Barrett got 0:23:25.680 --> 0:23:30.639 Trump's lawyer to admit that some of the allegations in 0:23:30.880 --> 0:23:37.080 the Special Council's case. Remember this is involving the essentially 0:23:37.119 --> 0:23:41.240 coup attempt, that some of the allegations were definitely private, 0:23:42.040 --> 0:23:47.160 not official acts. And doing that is the most significant 0:23:47.200 --> 0:23:50.879 thing because if that is the case, arguably the court 0:23:50.880 --> 0:23:54.120 could truncate this and say, Okay, we're going to you've 0:23:54.160 --> 0:23:57.720 admitted that some of them are, so we're going to 0:23:57.800 --> 0:24:01.479 allow the court to you know, she has jurissm. We 0:24:01.520 --> 0:24:03.520 know that she at least the judge at least has 0:24:03.600 --> 0:24:08.600 jurisdiction over something, so discovery can continue at least, and 0:24:08.680 --> 0:24:11.440 we can get the clock moving because she had thinks 0:24:11.480 --> 0:24:13.800 there's like two months left she thought of discovery and 0:24:13.840 --> 0:24:16.600 then they're gonna this part. I think it's gonna happen 0:24:16.600 --> 0:24:18.439 no matter what. I think the court's gonna kick it 0:24:18.480 --> 0:24:20.399 back down to Chuckkin. I've always thought this would be 0:24:20.480 --> 0:24:23.360 the case and say it's up to her to decide 0:24:23.440 --> 0:24:28.680 which of the things she believes are our official which 0:24:28.680 --> 0:24:33.640 are private, and she'll probably say everything's private, and that 0:24:33.680 --> 0:24:37.119 will be Unfortunately, there might be an interlocuatory appeal. But 0:24:37.240 --> 0:24:39.960 I think they're going to quickly affirm her at the 0:24:40.000 --> 0:24:42.879 DC Circuit and then I think Scotus will quickly affirm 0:24:42.920 --> 0:24:45.760 and you could actually have a trial before September. 0:24:45.800 --> 0:24:49.800 That's what I saw. Yeah, I saw that was bart. Yeah, 0:24:49.920 --> 0:24:53.359 Barrett's line of questioning that led to that place because 0:24:53.359 --> 0:24:56.000 she said, because you're all you know, in referring to 0:24:56.040 --> 0:25:01.080 the Special Council Jack Smith, time is of the essence, correct, right? 0:25:01.160 --> 0:25:03.639 And I'm like, are you dumb? Do you have a 0:25:03.640 --> 0:25:04.320 calendar or two? 0:25:04.720 --> 0:25:04.800 Like? 0:25:04.920 --> 0:25:07.040 Yes, time and time is of the time is of 0:25:07.080 --> 0:25:10.000 the essence, Jen, We just have a couple of minutes left. 0:25:10.000 --> 0:25:12.520 But the last question that I have for you is, 0:25:13.640 --> 0:25:16.119 I know that you just taught your your last class 0:25:16.520 --> 0:25:22.840 before your students that have been listening to you your 0:25:22.960 --> 0:25:27.919 lectures learning about the law. Has there been any like, 0:25:28.000 --> 0:25:31.399 what's a question that they have asked about, you know, 0:25:32.520 --> 0:25:36.359 how I guess, how has their understanding of the law 0:25:36.560 --> 0:25:39.960 changed from how they entered in into what we are 0:25:40.080 --> 0:25:45.240 seeing now about you know, why they wanted to be 0:25:46.320 --> 0:25:48.879 lawyers or judges or you know what have you. 0:25:49.880 --> 0:25:53.240 So one of my classes is like a business organization course, 0:25:53.400 --> 0:25:57.400 and so that hasn't really touched on this, although those 0:25:57.400 --> 0:26:00.960 students are often interested in the stock price Trump's company 0:26:01.040 --> 0:26:04.359 and and so on. But in my other class, I 0:26:04.359 --> 0:26:07.640 have a semono called money Law and Power, and I 0:26:07.680 --> 0:26:10.920 think that, you know, they're very interested. One of them, 0:26:10.920 --> 0:26:14.080 we haven't really talked that much about Donald Trump, but 0:26:14.280 --> 0:26:16.560 one of them brought up the question and a paper 0:26:16.600 --> 0:26:21.640 that she is writing whether Trump is a dictator similar 0:26:21.720 --> 0:26:26.359 to other powerful authoritarians, because we're looking at money, law 0:26:26.359 --> 0:26:29.880 and power, we look at you know, not just you know, oligarchy, but. 0:26:29.880 --> 0:26:31.160 Also at dictatorships. 0:26:31.160 --> 0:26:33.800 We're looking at all all kinds of amassing of power 0:26:34.119 --> 0:26:36.879 and wealth. And so, you know, I think there are people, really, 0:26:38.200 --> 0:26:40.280 I think there are people. I think the students, you know, 0:26:40.720 --> 0:26:42.840 this semester not as much, but last semester in my 0:26:42.880 --> 0:26:45.760 white collar crime class, I think they're absolutely shocked by 0:26:46.720 --> 0:26:49.680 the double standard that appears to apply to him versus 0:26:50.160 --> 0:26:53.119 any other even white collar criminal. Right, they already are 0:26:53.840 --> 0:26:57.840 already have it easy. But this guy, it's unbelievable, you know. 0:26:57.840 --> 0:26:59.480 And I think I often say, you know, yeah, you 0:26:59.560 --> 0:27:01.359 might make this argument, but this isn't going to happen 0:27:01.359 --> 0:27:02.520 to your ordinary client. 0:27:02.680 --> 0:27:03.200 You know, try that. 0:27:03.320 --> 0:27:04.960 Don't try this at home, you know. 0:27:05.560 --> 0:27:09.119 Like, but I mean that that and the fact that 0:27:09.520 --> 0:27:12.359