1 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wik f Daily with 2 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:19,600 Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Danny L. Moody recording on the road. Actually, folks, 3 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: the last couple of weeks have really opened my eyes 4 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: to wear universities loyalty lies. Right. We send young people 5 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 1: to hire institutions, right, to hire ed institutions in order 6 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: to have them think critically about the world around them, 7 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: how they're going to choose how to build a profession 8 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: right with the information that they learn that they are 9 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 1: supposed to be these you know, microcosms of the world 10 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:11,400 Speaker 1: around us, but really a place where you can really 11 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: delve into critical thought and then exercise what it is 12 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: that you learn. But what we have seen over the 13 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:24,039 Speaker 1: last couple of weeks as the protests on college campuses 14 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 1: have grown in their response to wanting universities to one 15 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 1: be transparent about their investments, two to divest investments from 16 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: Israel that are contributing to death and destruction. Right, how 17 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 1: I've been framing this is that college tuition has gone 18 00:01:54,920 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: up two levels once unheard of in like the six 19 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 1: figures to send your kid to school for a fucking 20 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 1: year because you're told that if you don't have a 21 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 1: college degree, right, then you're never gonna get a good job. 22 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:17,639 Speaker 1: But honestly, I'm really starting to look at these institutions 23 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:21,640 Speaker 1: as just one big fucking Ponzi scheme, because what it 24 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: has become is an apparatus for young people to go 25 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: into debt, right, and like extraordinary debt, not like a 26 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 1: little bit of debt that gets paid off in a 27 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 1: couple of years. But you're talking about high six figures 28 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:37,079 Speaker 1: worth of fucking debt. Because unless you are the super rich, 29 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 1: I don't know who can afford these college numbers. So 30 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: when now students are looking around, they're saying, so I 31 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: basically and myself and my family are going into extraordinary debt, 32 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 1: and I'm not supposed to have a say on where 33 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 1: that fucking money is going, Like I'm not supposed to 34 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:03,919 Speaker 1: know or ask questions. And then when I do, all 35 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: of a sudden, I'm the problem and not the institution. 36 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 1: So you have these places that are supposed to be 37 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: the you know, thought cells of the future, right future 38 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: industry leaders now being arrested for exercising their right to 39 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: free speech, their right to assemble, and their right to 40 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: question the very institution who, without their tuitions wouldn't exist. 41 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: But now it turns out that universities really don't give 42 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 1: a fuck about their students, who they see as disposable. 43 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: What they really do care about are those endowments. And 44 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 1: as it would turn out, those endowments argually come from 45 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: quote unquote conservatives who are on the side of Donald 46 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 1: Trump and the Republicans and don't believe in free speech, 47 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: don't believe in the right to protest, don't believe in democracy. 48 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: And so now you have these universities being quote unquote 49 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 1: pressured by major donors to quell critical thought and protests 50 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 1: and democratic values on college campuses. Folks, this is what 51 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 1: the right has always wanted. When you look at textbook fascism, 52 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: who do they go for first, Right, They go after 53 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 1: the academics, they go after the students, because without those thinkers, 54 00:04:55,680 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: what you're left with, right, are the workers. And so 55 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: those that are more likely or easily to be controlled 56 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:13,479 Speaker 1: because they're locked into an economic status that does not 57 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 1: afford them the luxury of thinking abstractly and big about 58 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 1: our critical issues. So it you know, as I see 59 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: this crackdown happening, and as young people are making the 60 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: decisions this very month, right about what colleges and universities 61 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 1: they're going to be going to where they want to enroll. 62 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:45,599 Speaker 1: You know, for those of you who are listening to 63 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: this that have high school's age kids or college age kids, 64 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: they need to really think about what institutions that they 65 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 1: are going to. You know, one of the things that 66 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 1: I will say too, that was just recently in the 67 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 1: news is that Howard University, right, one of the historically 68 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 1: black colleges and universities in Washington, DC, has seen an 69 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: uptick of about fifty percent in applications. Thirty seven thousand 70 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: young people applied to attend Howard University. Now, Howard has 71 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 1: been in the news for a whole host of other reasons, 72 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 1: as it pertains to mishandling of funds and low investment 73 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 1: into student housing and just horrific things that we have 74 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:43,159 Speaker 1: seen horrific housing conditions. But what it goes to show 75 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: you is that as you're seeing arise in white supremacy 76 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 1: and fascism, that young black people are saying they don't 77 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 1: want to go to predominantly white institutions or pwise, they 78 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 1: would rather go to HBCUs. And so again, as we're 79 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:03,279 Speaker 1: thinking about the few of colleges and universities. I think 80 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 1: that this is a really critical moment, right. The prices 81 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 1: are skyrocketing, the democratic values are taking are plummeting, right, 82 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: and young people are trapped someplace in between. There has 83 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 1: never been student protests that were on the wrong side 84 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: of history, right. So, whether it be the civil rights movement, 85 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: the Vietnam War, apartheid in South Africa that brought on 86 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: mass protests at colleges and universities, they were always on 87 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: the right side. So I would think really hard if 88 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 1: I am the current administration, if I am current members 89 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 1: of Congress, about who I'm going to be cracking down on. 90 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 1: Coming up next, dear friends, my conversation with our friend 91 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: Jennifer Tobb, who makes her return to wok F Daily 92 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: to break down the latest legal woes of Donald Trump. Folks, 93 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: it has been far, far too long since we have 94 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: had a friend of the show, gentile law professor, author 95 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: of Big Dirty Money on wok F Daily, and I'm 96 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 1: so appreciative to have you back to have some of 97 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:45,840 Speaker 1: your time because the legal news. I honestly I don't 98 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: know how professors are teaching right now, and every time 99 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:53,320 Speaker 1: that I have either a professor of political science a 100 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 1: law professor on I'm just like, I don't even know 101 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 1: how you make sense of what's happening. But what I 102 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 1: will say is the Supreme Court, this unelected body of 103 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: nine black robes that reigns over the rest of us 104 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: without any repercussions, without any I don't know. I guess 105 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: I didn't realize Jen that there was just like no 106 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: safety valve when it came to the Supreme Court. And 107 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 1: so right now as we're speaking, you have the immunity case, 108 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:38,679 Speaker 1: Presidential immunity oral arguments are happening. You have the Idaho 109 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: emergency abortion case that is happening. Not to mention what 110 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,079 Speaker 1: is on their slate as they barrel towards the end 111 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:52,559 Speaker 1: of their term in July. It's wild as fuck. And 112 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: so as like, I guess I'll just say, the question 113 00:09:55,960 --> 00:10:00,040 Speaker 1: is what are we doing here? Like, how do the 114 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: Supreme Court even decide to take up this immunity case 115 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 1: and pretend that they're not in the pocket of Donald Trump? 116 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:09,559 Speaker 1: And I guess it doesn't really matter, right, It doesn't 117 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 1: matter if they're overt covert. It doesn't matter because on 118 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:17,439 Speaker 1: either side, will they ever be held accountable for anything? 119 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 2: There is so much in there. There are many questions 120 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 2: that I'm going to start with the very first one, 121 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 2: which I loved. You said, how to professors? How are 122 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 2: they teaching? And my last day of teaching was Monday. 123 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 2: So that's how I am dealing with this. But I 124 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 2: have to tell you, you know that I'm a follow the 125 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 2: money person and you know, sort of a you know, 126 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:42,560 Speaker 2: obsessive on Trump finding justice because he is a white 127 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 2: collar criminal has gotten away with it. But the thing 128 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 2: that is the most upsetting to me, that I couldn't 129 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 2: listen to and couldn't even read about till this morning, 130 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 2: was that Idaho m TALA case. AMTALA is standing for 131 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 2: that federal law emergency what is it, Emergency Medical Treatment 132 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 2: and Labor Act, because it's visceral, you know, Danielle, I 133 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 2: mean I feel it. You know, I have been through 134 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 2: a very dangerous labor. I know what it's like to 135 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 2: have to have an emergency intervention. Thank goodness, everybody survived. 136 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 2: I also feel for these, you know, people who go 137 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:24,439 Speaker 2: in you know, pregnant and are hoping for you know, 138 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:29,840 Speaker 2: the continuation of their pregnancy and are in critical condition 139 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 2: or I shouldn't even say critical, or in a dangerous 140 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 2: condition where it's clear the pregnancy isn't going to survive, 141 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:38,439 Speaker 2: but there is a chance for them to give birth 142 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 2: in the future. But if you wait and don't perform 143 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 2: the abortion, you could damage their reproductive organs forever. So 144 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 2: for you know, there are a lot of people who 145 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 2: will say who are anti abortion. They'll say, you know, 146 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 2: I wouldn't be alive if my mother had had an abortion. Well, 147 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 2: there are a lot of people who wouldn't be alive 148 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 2: if their mother hadn't been given a medically necessary abortion. 149 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 2: And certainly people even if it wasn't medically necessary, which 150 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 2: has nothing to do with the Idaho case, there are 151 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 2: people who aren't ready to be parents, and if they 152 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 2: had been parents, that future child wouldn't be born. So 153 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 2: all this stuff, I think the access to abortion is 154 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 2: the pro life position, and we can see that really 155 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 2: clearly here pro women's life. If you are a pregnant 156 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:24,959 Speaker 2: person and you can shape your destiny, you should not 157 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:28,680 Speaker 2: have to be in sepsis, near death with organ failure 158 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 2: in order for a doctor to perform an abortion on you. 159 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 2: And I was shocked to hear that in Idaho they're 160 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:40,320 Speaker 2: trying to gaslight us. The argument saying, oh, there's no 161 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 2: you know that if there's no big thing here. And 162 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:45,199 Speaker 2: the Idaho law is the same as a federal law 163 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 2: that how come over six women or at least six 164 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 2: women have been airlifted from Idaho to other states so 165 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 2: they could get treatment. The reason why this federal law 166 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,840 Speaker 2: exists it's not just for emergency abortions. It's also for 167 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 2: any emergency condition because in this mostly affected poor women, 168 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 2: poor women, poor black women especially. You come to the 169 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 2: a hospital emergency room in distress. You might not be pregnant, 170 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 2: it could be something else, and hospitals could turn you 171 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 2: away if you didn't have insurance. 172 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 1: Now they have been doing. Now they have to stabilize you. 173 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 2: And by the way, this isn't just you know for 174 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 2: people who are like, well, I'm not a poor person, 175 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 2: why should I care. It's about you too, because different 176 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 2: insurance plans, the hospitals will say, well, will you sign 177 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:32,079 Speaker 2: right here to agree to pick up any charges your 178 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:35,200 Speaker 2: insurance does. Well, before you even know what those charges 179 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 2: could be. They could be outsourcing the anesthetic, They could 180 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 2: be doing things that could cost you tens of thousands, 181 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:43,080 Speaker 2: if not hundreds of thousands of dollars that you have 182 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 2: now ruined your entire family for because they're forcing you 183 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 2: to sign that, or they're forcing your spouse to sign 184 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,320 Speaker 2: that just to stabilize you so you won't die, and 185 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 2: that is coercive in this law, you know, is meant 186 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 2: to deal with all of that. And so for me, 187 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:01,680 Speaker 2: what I heard about the argument yesterday and this in 188 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 2: the case, was it only the women justices were actually 189 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 2: carry at all about the lives of people coming into 190 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 2: hospitals in danger. 191 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: And you know, I just. 192 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 2: It's really hard when you think, you know, it's hardwin 193 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 2: dabs overturned, mov wade. This takes it to this next level. 194 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 2: And if they cannot uphold this federal statute, then a 195 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 2: federal law allowing abortion nationwide will not be uphelp. These 196 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 2: things are all linked as well. 197 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 1: It's just, you know, what I realized listening to Alito 198 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 1: in particular, is the depravity, Yes, is the depravity and 199 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 1: the cruelty of these male justices that have no idea 200 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 1: what you know. And I feel like it was somebody 201 00:14:55,520 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: on cable news who said, you know, it's like they 202 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: leave the Hallmark, fairytale, fucking Disney version of pregnancy and 203 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 1: birth right like in Alito's mind, like what what what 204 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 1: do you mean emergency? Doesn't the stork come to your door? 205 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 1: Like that's the kind of bullshit that they offer, and 206 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 1: it just shows you, Like the male justices were in 207 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: conversation about the particulars around the law, and the women 208 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 1: justices are talking about the reality on the ground of 209 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 1: women and their bodies and the fact that pregnancy is 210 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 1: a high risk situation totally, and it doesn't matter if 211 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 1: you are old or you're young. You are what do 212 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: they say, you are never a woman is never closer 213 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 1: to death than when she is giving birth. 214 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 2: Absolutely yes. 215 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: And so the fact that we are a developed nation 216 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 1: with all of the tools and the science and the 217 00:15:56,040 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 1: medical know how that has made maternal care and birthing 218 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: easier for women. For the Republican Party and these right 219 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:09,400 Speaker 1: wing fascist judges to turn around and say, well, we 220 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 1: don't really care. Right for Alito to profess himself to 221 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 1: be some type of fucking medical expert, I'm like, you 222 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: went to law school, bro, you didn't go to medical school. 223 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 1: So you don't see me coming to your job and 224 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 1: telling you how to do it right because you don't 225 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 1: actually don't know how to do it. So I just wonder, 226 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: like the polling jen polls come out ah Supreme Courts 227 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: in the toilet. We all know about Clarence Thomas and 228 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 1: the grifting, but there's nothing we can do about it, 229 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 1: and there's nothing we do do about it. As they 230 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 1: take us back to literally the dark ages, they might 231 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 1: as well take us back to the law that was 232 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: just narrowly overturned in Arizona in the House, with the 233 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 1: eighteen sixty four law that they have on abortion. 234 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, the Comstock Act that they're trying to use. 235 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah. So I'm just like, we have no what's 236 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: the recourse? What is the recourse? 237 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 2: You know, I'm always looking for these, you know, I 238 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 2: want to answer your question and not fight the hypothetical 239 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 2: and find something good to say. And I think the 240 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:26,400 Speaker 2: only recourse is making sure that you know that Joe 241 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 2: Biden wins and that he in his next term expands 242 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:37,119 Speaker 2: the Court to thirteen justices, because we have essentially thirteen circuits, 243 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:42,360 Speaker 2: and because several of these justices, the ones who facilitated 244 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:47,159 Speaker 2: the end of Roe v. Wade, I believe, deceived Congress 245 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:49,719 Speaker 2: when they were at the Senate, when they were at 246 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 2: their hearings. Number one, so you can't, you know. I 247 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:56,120 Speaker 2: think that's step one expanding the court. And I think 248 00:17:56,160 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 2: step two is we really have to fight countries have 249 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 2: for a nationwide law that allows for abortion. We cannot 250 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:08,399 Speaker 2: do this state by state thing. It's not safe for 251 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:11,200 Speaker 2: any of us. And it's barbaric. And we can see 252 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:13,919 Speaker 2: where this is going, you know, and this idea that 253 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 2: women are merely this sort of vehicle and if there's 254 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:20,160 Speaker 2: any blood or guts involved in giving birth, that's on you, 255 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:23,160 Speaker 2: Like you should just pop this baby out like it's 256 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 2: like like you're a plastic doll and the baby's popping 257 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 2: out of some you know, plastic hole and there's no blood, 258 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 2: there's no guts, and it's like Barbie Land. You know that, No, 259 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,680 Speaker 2: that is not that is not what this is. And 260 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 2: you know it's it's our lives depend upon this, you know. 261 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 2: This is I always thought when people were referring to 262 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:47,919 Speaker 2: the Handmaid's Tail that it was a little okay, a 263 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 2: little too too. 264 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 1: And that's where we are. 265 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 2: Right now, and it's frightening. 266 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:00,440 Speaker 1: I want to switch gears, staying on the Supreme Court, 267 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:05,720 Speaker 1: but just switching cases, which is the presidential immunity case 268 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 1: that as of the time of this recording is being heard, 269 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:14,879 Speaker 1: and you know, Jack Smith, the Special Council, had asked 270 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 1: back in December for the Supreme Court to hear this 271 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 1: case because he knew where it was headed and he 272 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:29,160 Speaker 1: wanted to get ahead of the curve. The Supreme Court said, nah, 273 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: we'll just kick it back to the lower court. Lower 274 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 1: court makes a decision and says, yeah, presidents don't have 275 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 1: full immunity, and now kicked up to the Supreme Court 276 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:41,360 Speaker 1: and they're like, maybe we'll hear it, you know, when 277 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: the cherry blossoms come out. Right. So here we are. 278 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 1: I'm listening, as you're listening, tell me your thoughts on 279 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 1: what you're hearing. And to me, I'm like, if I 280 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 1: was a lawyer, the only question that would be posed 281 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:01,920 Speaker 1: would be, so, how do the other forty four presidents 282 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 1: serve without presidential immunity? Like how were they able to 283 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:09,399 Speaker 1: serve over the last two hundred and fifty years of 284 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:13,879 Speaker 1: this country before this criminal comes and now all of 285 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 1: a sudden, we need presidential immunity. Something the Framers never offered. 286 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:22,439 Speaker 2: Well, not to argue for their lawyer, but his lawyer 287 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 2: would probably say, oh, they already had it. We just 288 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 2: never tested it, so that's what their lawyer would say. 289 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 2: But so you know, when I'm when I'm listening to this, 290 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 2: you know, I'm listening carefully, but also like you know, 291 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 2: on my Twitter or in like little you know, in 292 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:42,359 Speaker 2: little chat groups. And it's interesting the different you know, 293 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 2: the people who have argued numerous pieces before the Supreme Court. 294 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 2: I you know, I trust them, but I also trust 295 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 2: my I wouldn't call myself a labors and because I'm 296 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 2: a law professor, but I'm not a constitutional lawyer. So 297 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 2: I'm listening. I think more like a member of the public, 298 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 2: and I think that I guess there's takeaways. I'm going 299 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 2: to give you the most practical thing first, The most 300 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:08,680 Speaker 2: practical thing, which I've always been listening for, is are 301 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 2: they going to decide this it quickly enough and in 302 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,920 Speaker 2: such a way that allows Judge Chuckkin to move forward 303 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 2: immediately and you know, finish the discovery period and start 304 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,880 Speaker 2: the trial. That's like the practical thing I'm looking for, right, 305 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 2: And from what I hear, that doesn't appear like it's 306 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,439 Speaker 2: going to happen. It could, but we'll talk about that. So, 307 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 2: you know, justice delayed, justice denied. Right. The second thing. 308 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 2: And this is more of the you know sort of 309 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:43,680 Speaker 2: What is the most striking and shocking thing is that 310 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 2: when Elena Kagan asks Trump's lawyer whether if a president 311 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:55,359 Speaker 2: had staged a coup against the United States while he 312 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:57,159 Speaker 2: was president in order to try to stay in office 313 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 2: but then it was unsuccessful, could you, after he was 314 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 2: out of office prosecute him for that crime? And this 315 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,400 Speaker 2: answer that he gave came out in several different parts 316 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 2: because other justices followed up, including KBJ and Barrett. His 317 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 2: answer was, the only way that you could prosecute a 318 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 2: formal president for having broken the law by staging a 319 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:27,480 Speaker 2: coup would be if first House impeached and the Senate convicted. 320 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,960 Speaker 2: And wait, but there's more, so that that alone, and 321 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:34,479 Speaker 2: he said that that would probably Keke and said, well, 322 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:38,160 Speaker 2: do you consider that a private act or an official act? 323 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 2: And he said, well, it depends on all the context, 324 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 2: but it might be an official act. Okay, with there's more, 325 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 2: and then you get later Barrett and then KBJ, you know, 326 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:51,879 Speaker 2: and as as Trump's lawyer further aside, and on top 327 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 2: of all of this, if you were able to prosecute him, 328 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:59,120 Speaker 2: because if it were considered a private act, you would 329 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 2: need a stack that explicitly said, and this also applies 330 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 2: to the president, not just anyone else. So you know, 331 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:14,119 Speaker 2: that was to me the most outrageous argument he made. 332 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 2: Now the most important the legal thing, which my friend 333 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:21,280 Speaker 2: Steve Vladdock pointed out, I think both in his tweets 334 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 2: and privately, the most significant thing was that Barrett got 335 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:30,639 Speaker 2: Trump's lawyer to admit that some of the allegations in 336 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 2: the Special Council's case. Remember this is involving the essentially 337 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 2: coup attempt, that some of the allegations were definitely private, 338 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:47,160 Speaker 2: not official acts. And doing that is the most significant 339 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,879 Speaker 2: thing because if that is the case, arguably the court 340 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:54,120 Speaker 2: could truncate this and say, Okay, we're going to you've 341 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 2: admitted that some of them are, so we're going to 342 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,479 Speaker 2: allow the court to you know, she has jurissm. We 343 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 2: know that she at least the judge at least has 344 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 2: jurisdiction over something, so discovery can continue at least, and 345 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 2: we can get the clock moving because she had thinks 346 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 2: there's like two months left she thought of discovery and 347 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 2: then they're gonna this part. I think it's gonna happen 348 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:18,439 Speaker 2: no matter what. I think the court's gonna kick it 349 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 2: back down to Chuckkin. I've always thought this would be 350 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:23,360 Speaker 2: the case and say it's up to her to decide 351 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:28,680 Speaker 2: which of the things she believes are our official which 352 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:33,640 Speaker 2: are private, and she'll probably say everything's private, and that 353 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:37,119 Speaker 2: will be Unfortunately, there might be an interlocuatory appeal. But 354 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 2: I think they're going to quickly affirm her at the 355 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,879 Speaker 2: DC Circuit and then I think Scotus will quickly affirm 356 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 2: and you could actually have a trial before September. 357 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 1: That's what I saw. Yeah, I saw that was bart. Yeah, 358 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 1: Barrett's line of questioning that led to that place because 359 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 1: she said, because you're all you know, in referring to 360 00:24:56,040 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: the Special Council Jack Smith, time is of the essence, correct, right? 361 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 1: And I'm like, are you dumb? Do you have a 362 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: calendar or two? 363 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 2: Like? 364 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 1: Yes, time and time is of the time is of 365 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 1: the essence, Jen, We just have a couple of minutes left. 366 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: But the last question that I have for you is, 367 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,119 Speaker 1: I know that you just taught your your last class 368 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 1: before your students that have been listening to you your 369 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:27,919 Speaker 1: lectures learning about the law. Has there been any like, 370 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,399 Speaker 1: what's a question that they have asked about, you know, 371 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:36,359 Speaker 1: how I guess, how has their understanding of the law 372 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 1: changed from how they entered in into what we are 373 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 1: seeing now about you know, why they wanted to be 374 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:48,879 Speaker 1: lawyers or judges or you know what have you. 375 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 2: So one of my classes is like a business organization course, 376 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:57,400 Speaker 2: and so that hasn't really touched on this, although those 377 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 2: students are often interested in the stock price Trump's company 378 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,359 Speaker 2: and and so on. But in my other class, I 379 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,640 Speaker 2: have a semono called money Law and Power, and I 380 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,920 Speaker 2: think that, you know, they're very interested. One of them, 381 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 2: we haven't really talked that much about Donald Trump, but 382 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 2: one of them brought up the question and a paper 383 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:21,640 Speaker 2: that she is writing whether Trump is a dictator similar 384 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:26,359 Speaker 2: to other powerful authoritarians, because we're looking at money, law 385 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,880 Speaker 2: and power, we look at you know, not just you know, oligarchy, but. 386 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:31,160 Speaker 1: Also at dictatorships. 387 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 2: We're looking at all all kinds of amassing of power 388 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:36,879 Speaker 2: and wealth. And so, you know, I think there are people, really, 389 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 2: I think there are people. I think the students, you know, 390 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 2: this semester not as much, but last semester in my 391 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 2: white collar crime class, I think they're absolutely shocked by 392 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,680 Speaker 2: the double standard that appears to apply to him versus 393 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,119 Speaker 2: any other even white collar criminal. Right, they already are 394 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 2: already have it easy. But this guy, it's unbelievable, you know. 395 00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 2: And I think I often say, you know, yeah, you 396 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:01,359 Speaker 2: might make this argument, but this isn't going to happen 397 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 2: to your ordinary client. 398 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:03,200 Speaker 1: You know, try that. 399 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 2: Don't try this at home, you know. 400 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:09,119 Speaker 1: Like, but I mean that that and the fact that 401 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,359 Speaker 1: but they're setting up all of this precedent. Right, So 402 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 1: if I if I am a white collar criminal, and 403 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 1: you know, and I'm looking at the cake walk that's 404 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 1: being given, then I'm going and I'm going into maybe 405 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 1: similar jurisdictions or the same jurisdiction. 406 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,679 Speaker 2: I'm saying, if you have the money to distall I mean, 407 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,199 Speaker 2: if you have the money to do this, and you 408 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:32,600 Speaker 2: also want to like run for some political office at 409 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,200 Speaker 2: the same time, you can say I'm running for city 410 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,200 Speaker 2: council and they're trying to ruin my chances. I mean, 411 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 2: you know, look, I mean I don't defend, I don't 412 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,400 Speaker 2: do criminal defense, but I certainly, you know, would look 413 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 2: at precedent and you try to be a full service lawyer, 414 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:48,679 Speaker 2: and I think I would I would advise you to 415 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 2: run for office. 416 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 1: Oh shit, well we'll leave it on that today. 417 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 2: You're not right. I know you are. 418 00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 1: That's why I'm like, God, damn, I'll leave it there today. 419 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:05,160 Speaker 1: My friend Jen Poud, thank you so much for making 420 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:13,320 Speaker 1: the time for wokf I really appreciate you. That is 421 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 1: it for me today. Dear friends on wok f as 422 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:20,119 Speaker 1: always power to the people and to all the people. Power, 423 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 1: get woke and stay woke as fuck.