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Speaker 1: This is me eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 1: bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You

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Speaker 1: can't predict anything. Uh, you know you're you're you're mature

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Speaker 1: when you can sit down with a game warden, I'd

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Speaker 1: be real nervous. Are you not nervous? No, I'm not

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Speaker 1: nervous at all. Yanny, I noticed little fidgety. He's fidgety

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Speaker 1: like he's hiding something right now? Um? Eric, Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Eric Crawford introduced yourself, Eric Craford. We'd call you a

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Speaker 1: game warden. Is that what you like to go by you?

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Speaker 1: You can call me a game warden. I guess professionally

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Speaker 1: referred to as a conservation officer, fish cop. That's one

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Speaker 1: of the many terms and endearingly Yeah, yeah, exactly. So

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Speaker 1: you would so, so give your official title, Like what's

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Speaker 1: your business cards say on it? It would say regional investigator.

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Speaker 1: Actually so and so of in Idaho and you have

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Speaker 1: so you have a region within the state. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: work out of the Clearwater region, which is kind of

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Speaker 1: central central north central Idaho. What does like a regional investigator?

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Speaker 1: So you're not out driving around in a marked pick

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Speaker 1: up with a gun on your whole you know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's not your deal. I am not. No, I more

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Speaker 1: of a I guess you could say, uh, support function

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Speaker 1: to the uniform officers now, UM a bit more of

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Speaker 1: a technical expertise. Whether it's with search warrants, UM, writing them,

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Speaker 1: are executing them, and also um electronic Um, I guess

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Speaker 1: you could say evidence. So whether it's UM stuff associated

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Speaker 1: with those search warrants, say cell phones and search as

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Speaker 1: the cell phones and or electronic surveillance more of a

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Speaker 1: passive passive type stuff. Hey, Yanni, who was real quick though?

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Speaker 1: Rammy's here, Remmy Warren, how's it going? Uh, command Master Hunter,

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Speaker 1: Rammy Warren. We're actually hunting with Remy right now. Taking

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Speaker 1: a little break. Um, Remmy, tell them all about you

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Speaker 1: got a ball today? Yeah, I shot a nice bold today.

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Speaker 1: I've heard some words. I never thought Steve would say, Hey,

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Speaker 1: why don't you shoot first? That's my I try to

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Speaker 1: like be generous man. I don't know. Last time I

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Speaker 1: felt you were like you're like step back, I'm gonna shoe.

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Speaker 1: He was worried about your years. Yeah exactly. No, Actually,

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Speaker 1: last time I think you used me as arrest once. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I believe that I was usually as arrest today. Ye

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Speaker 1: should have? Actually, um, it was the Rammy got a

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Speaker 1: bold day? That was fun? Uh? Where was everything appeared

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Speaker 1: to be legal? H. We're not in your jurisdiction though,

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Speaker 1: but you still like to sniff around. I still have

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Speaker 1: brothers over here that I can sniff around. We actually

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Speaker 1: even we even abided by rules. They don't even exist anymore.

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Speaker 1: Just in case the ones that are ingrained in you

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Speaker 1: cut the tag before you do anything. And even though

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Speaker 1: they've changed the lingo a little bit, Montana, but did

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Speaker 1: you uh had you spent time as a Oh let

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Speaker 1: me ask this first? Raise your hand. You've had violations.

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Speaker 1: I've had two violations, but their PFD violations the same

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Speaker 1: place Open Day duck season two years in a row.

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Speaker 1: I got tickets for not having a p f D.

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Speaker 1: And hear me out. We were only using the canoe

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Speaker 1: to put decoys in because it was so shallow. We

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Speaker 1: would just wear our waiters and dragged the decoys in

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Speaker 1: the canoe. Get a ticket, canoe and no life things.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, but we're not even good warning, no seventy

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Speaker 1: five ticket. We're like, but we're not using the like

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Speaker 1: we're just and so the next year. I'm like, what

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Speaker 1: the chance that happened twice? Get done? Dog on a

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Speaker 1: different gentleman pulls in rights just the same day ticket.

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Speaker 1: So that's my only that's not only bad violations? Now,

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Speaker 1: n what kind of what all violations have you had?

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Speaker 1: It wasn't really me, but I was involved in violation.

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Speaker 1: I'm a little embarrassed to tell it because I'm kind

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Speaker 1: of gonna throw my dad under the bus. Your dad,

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Speaker 1: dad is a violator? Well, to get me hunting, Yes,

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Speaker 1: dad is also honest out of state. We uh, with

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Speaker 1: everybody being names honest, we had like basically added like

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Speaker 1: a different dad in a different state once and it

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Speaker 1: caught up to us. Oh jeez, you honest. That's a

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Speaker 1: that's a residency issue. Is what we call that? A

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Speaker 1: wrong class license? Which is pretty serious. Yeah, yeah, and

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Speaker 1: i'd have it's a mandatory revocation. Oh is that right? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: For how long? Minimum? One year? Good? Because we were

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Speaker 1: just in our pre discussion we were talking about some

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Speaker 1: we'll get to this, we're looking at some violations and

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Speaker 1: the fines and uh, yeah, I didn't know. Were quite

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Speaker 1: surprised that it seemed pretty lenient some of the fines. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if we were playing like prices right on violations, I

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Speaker 1: would have guessed I would have been throwing out numbers

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Speaker 1: way higher. Yeah, and some of that stuff hasn't been

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Speaker 1: adjusted for inflation, right, Um, So that that's for sure.

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Speaker 1: But if there's no if there's no if the if

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Speaker 1: the finals the goulopment twenty years, it winds up seeming

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Speaker 1: like very outdated. It would, it would. But so when

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Speaker 1: you think about penalties, you know, so penalty is coming

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Speaker 1: to two forms, financial or loss of privileges, and so

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Speaker 1: mainly that many of the prosecutors kind of way that

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Speaker 1: in their consideration of what they're gonna either pleaded out

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Speaker 1: or try to get for a penalty. So I mean,

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Speaker 1: sometimes money doesn't mean anything to anybody, but losing privileges does.

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Speaker 1: So privileges anymore are far reaching because of this thing

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Speaker 1: called the Wildlife Violator Compact, which you explain that see

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Speaker 1: we're getting backlogged and things you need to explain. But

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Speaker 1: since run that explain next, that's good stuff. Man. So

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Speaker 1: there's I believe it's up to forty two states now,

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Speaker 1: is it really? Yeah? I remember it was just like

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Speaker 1: the West and Pennsylvania or something like. Yeah, yeah, but

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Speaker 1: now there's there's forty two states. I believe it's up

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Speaker 1: to forty two. Um, and so if you're revoked in

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Speaker 1: one of those states, you're revoked in all those other states.

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Speaker 1: Can I go out on a limb, out on a

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Speaker 1: limb and say that Texas is not one of the

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Speaker 1: forty two I don't. I don't know which which aren't.

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Speaker 1: They're getting there though, I can just picture and being like,

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Speaker 1: not on that list. Yea, we need a fact checker.

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Speaker 1: See which my friend Doug Durn's real good at him?

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Speaker 1: He's not here right now? Are already check? Yeah? I could.

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Speaker 1: I can think of a handful of digital radio programs

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Speaker 1: that could use a staff fact checker. Um, you look

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Speaker 1: that up right of me, Remy's on it. Your report

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Speaker 1: back to us, Remy, So it isn't. Doesn't Wisconsin dear

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Speaker 1: season open like shortly? You know? Yeah? My friends Wisconsin

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Speaker 1: are always shocked when I don't when I have to

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Speaker 1: double check about when it opens. But it's like some

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Speaker 1: Saturday that could be this Saturday. So uh so, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you lose your privileges of one state, and you lose

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Speaker 1: them in forty two states. Yeah, and that that started

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Speaker 1: in the West right did. Yeah, Idaho it was one

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Speaker 1: of the original members of the compact. And so you

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Speaker 1: can understand why it started in the West, because who

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Speaker 1: comes to hunt the West a lot of the times,

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Speaker 1: you know, easterns exactly. And so if they just they

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Speaker 1: just bump out into the next state. Yeah, if they

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Speaker 1: just get go back to their eastern state, and we're like,

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Speaker 1: who cares? You know, I'm revoked in Idaho, alorade on

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Speaker 1: my home state. Yeah, now now it's far reaching. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so let me back up to somethings. I wanted to

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Speaker 1: get some clarity out, sketch off me real quickly, like, like,

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Speaker 1: how how you became what you are? So you went

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Speaker 1: you studied what in school? So yeah? So I uh um,

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Speaker 1: so I have an associates and environmental studies and bachelor's

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Speaker 1: and fisheries. So I grew up back east. I went

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Speaker 1: to college and upstate New York first int and then

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Speaker 1: back to Pennsylvania to a state school. And then when

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Speaker 1: I was completing my uh my senior year and my bachelor's, um,

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Speaker 1: I had to I was in the senior seminar class

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Speaker 1: and I had to look for jobs. You know, you

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Speaker 1: learned to write a resume and all that, and then

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Speaker 1: the focus of the class is looking for jobs pretty

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Speaker 1: much and writing resumes. And so I had already spent

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Speaker 1: a summer in southeast Alaska on an internship, and so

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Speaker 1: I knew, I knew I wanted to come back west,

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Speaker 1: even though Alaska is a little bit different than Idaho.

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Speaker 1: But I learned pretty quick that after our stint in Alaska,

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Speaker 1: it wouldn't be nearly as fun going back, just because

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Speaker 1: of what we were doing and all the things we

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Speaker 1: got to do. And so it just happened to apply

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Speaker 1: for a job in Idaho and came out and worked

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Speaker 1: as a fishery seasonal for two years. Yeah yeah, and

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Speaker 1: then uh, and then a wildlife seasonal for two more.

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Speaker 1: So many guys I know that wound up doing fishing

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Speaker 1: wildlife work would do those seasonal star yeah. And that's

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Speaker 1: what like signing on the research programs, yea, And that's

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Speaker 1: what That's what pretty much everybody does. That's pretty much

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Speaker 1: your foot in the door. That it's not how it works,

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Speaker 1: it just you know, you need to gain experience somehow.

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Speaker 1: And so you know, I worked back east in New

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Speaker 1: York State for as a fisheries technician first a season

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Speaker 1: and then went to Alaska and then came to Idaho,

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Speaker 1: and so I had a little bit of a resume building,

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Speaker 1: and so it just built here. And quite honestly, when

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Speaker 1: I when I got to Idaho, I had no intentions

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Speaker 1: to being a game warden whatsoever. And so I one

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Speaker 1: of the seasons I worked in wildlife, I was trapping bears,

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Speaker 1: black bears, um for research. We're using Aldrich snares to

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Speaker 1: do it. And so one of the game wardens came

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Speaker 1: out to work with me, and I've known him for

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Speaker 1: a couple of years, trapping bears out in the woods,

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Speaker 1: trapping bear? Is it out in the middle, out in

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Speaker 1: the middle of it? What kind of snares? Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: foot snare yeah. And so one of the game wardens

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Speaker 1: came out and was helping me, and and so he

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Speaker 1: had had a master's scree. So the unwritten rule in

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Speaker 1: the agency is that you have to have a masters

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Speaker 1: as a minimum to be a biologist. You know, there

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Speaker 1: certainly are other avenues to do that, and so um,

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Speaker 1: he had a masters and I couldn't understand why I

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Speaker 1: was in game warden. And so here we are sitting

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Speaker 1: on a river eating lunch and he and he it

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Speaker 1: was yeah, he just like, listen, what we're out here,

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Speaker 1: where's your supervisor in the office. You know, we're out

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Speaker 1: doing the fun stuff. And light came on. I was like, yeah, heck, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I should probably be a game warden. And the kind

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Speaker 1: of you know, that was sixteen years ago. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: just because of that little lunch on the river with

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Speaker 1: the game warden wash it was it was so, did

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Speaker 1: you for a while become a game warden? What do

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Speaker 1: you call the verse? Like a what do you call

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Speaker 1: a warden? New is just out in his patrol vehicle,

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Speaker 1: checking license, just a regular So it would be, uh,

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Speaker 1: you start out in Idaho as a conservation officer when

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Speaker 1: you first come on, and you're in that position for

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Speaker 1: about a year, and then you jump up to a

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Speaker 1: senior conservation officer and so that would be the actual,

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Speaker 1: uh uniform function, the patrol function where you have a

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Speaker 1: patrol area and this is kind of a and you

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Speaker 1: did that for a while. Yeah, for the vast majority

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Speaker 1: of my career. UM I worked as an investigator for

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Speaker 1: almost five years in another region and then came back

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Speaker 1: to investigations just a few years ago. But the vast

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Speaker 1: majority of my time was in uniform, and so I've

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Speaker 1: had the pleasure of working all around the state so far.

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Speaker 1: But the the interesting thing in Idaho, Um, there's only

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Speaker 1: seventy seven uniform officers and so on. Average uniform guy

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Speaker 1: has eleven square miles to patrol in the state Idaho,

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Speaker 1: so bigger, you know, yeah, huge and eastern standards. Have

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Speaker 1: you ever figured out the ratio of hunters per per

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Speaker 1: per square miles? No hunters per war so yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure how many. I think we don't even know

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Speaker 1: how many hunting licenses first per yeah, which oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: the states Texas gets a little redemption because of a Delaware, Hawaiian, Massachusetts, Nebraska,

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Speaker 1: and New Jersey not on the list. Yeah, those are

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Speaker 1: the ones that aren't on there. And it looks like

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Speaker 1: most of them, except for Nebraska and maybe New Jersey,

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Speaker 1: are in the process of changing. Huh. There you go. Um,

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Speaker 1: so now you're gonna work on how many lights? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: The ratio of hunters per officers. Now, someone was recently saying,

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Speaker 1: to be honest, he's a conservation officer, was saying, to

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Speaker 1: be honest, right, He's like, I don't need to go

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Speaker 1: out in the field anymore. I got Facebook. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: certainly can be a tool. And it's kind of funny

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Speaker 1: because the the younger officers, I mean, they like being

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Speaker 1: on there. I don't have the patience for it. But

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Speaker 1: it's we've gotten to a society that, you know, likes

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Speaker 1: to promote themselves, and some of society isn't necessarily as

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Speaker 1: smart as they should be with what they promote, you know,

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Speaker 1: and UM in a way, in the sixteen years that

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Speaker 1: I've been a CEO, things have changed drastically in those

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Speaker 1: sixteen years of UM people's motivations and whatnot to to

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Speaker 1: violate and some of its self promotion. And I want

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Speaker 1: to be want to be known. That's what those boys

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Speaker 1: said down in um oh not in Kentucky. Where do

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Speaker 1: we cross the river? And went into? Was what state

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Speaker 1: do we go into? Was it Ohio? No? Should Rember

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Speaker 1: in Kentucky? I thought we'd call swamp route. We were

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Speaker 1: still in Kentucky. Anyways. They were with wardens that worked

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Speaker 1: both sides of the river. But yeah, I was like

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Speaker 1: they kept talking about these rings and like these guys

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Speaker 1: were they were drug eithers, right, Yeah, and they bust

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Speaker 1: up this poaching ring and I'm trying to think like,

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Speaker 1: why is there a poaching ring? And finally, so I

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Speaker 1: asked like, well, why are they a poaching He's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: just so they can brag. Yeah, And sometimes you see,

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Speaker 1: you know, as far as a poaching ring, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I haven't been exposed to a ring, but you'll definitely see.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's value in wildlife, whether it's in the

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Speaker 1: sale of the meat or the sale of the antlers.

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Speaker 1: I mean, antlers are worth a lot of money either

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Speaker 1: if you're selling them by poundage. Do you ever catch

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Speaker 1: anyone who's selling meat? Uh? We have knowledge of people

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Speaker 1: that are selling meat. Yeah, yeah, into what like how

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Speaker 1: they're going about it? So um advertising on craigs List.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, ship really sometimes And I thought you saying

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Speaker 1: at one time went to this dinner. I went to

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Speaker 1: this dinner one time down and it was in Charlotte,

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Speaker 1: North Carolina. Is that kind of like a like a

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Speaker 1: not a hippie dippie town, but like kind of like

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Speaker 1: a cool little town. Oh it's a giant city of

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Speaker 1: the South. I was in some cool little town in

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Speaker 1: North Carolina. Yes, that's it. Who said that? You google

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Speaker 1: cool little town in North Carolina? So yeah, I was

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Speaker 1: there and I go to this thing. This guy's having

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Speaker 1: his wild game dinner and I'm already smelling a fish

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Speaker 1: because he's selling tickets to it. So he's charging seventy

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Speaker 1: five dollars a plate to have a wild game dinner.

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Speaker 1: And you come in there and he said, I had

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Speaker 1: kind of been in on this from the ground, like

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Speaker 1: you can't do that, Like I know people do it

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Speaker 1: for fundraisers. So this guy it comes out and says, oh,

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Speaker 1: we're doing it as a fundraiser for the trc P.

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Speaker 1: So I quickly called t rc P and I'm like, hey, man,

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Speaker 1: tell me when the donation comes in from it never

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Speaker 1: came in. But here's what kind of messed it up too,

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Speaker 1: is the dude serves one of the dishes and he said, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's alligator snapper from such and such river, and you know,

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Speaker 1: as you know, there's you know, you're not there's not

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Speaker 1: a harvest on alligator snappers out there right now. And

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Speaker 1: I later learned he was way off. There are no

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Speaker 1: alligator snappers in that river. So no, I don't know

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Speaker 1: if the whole thing was just a sham. Do. I mean,

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Speaker 1: like he's just selling whatever and acting like it's yeah,

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Speaker 1: And we don't. Would you mean you don't see somebody

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Speaker 1: that that is that? Yeah, that is that out out there.

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Speaker 1: What we see kind of nowadays is pretty much the

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Speaker 1: sale antlers or the sales meat, but it's mainly associated

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Speaker 1: with with drugs, say meth. You know somebody that's a

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Speaker 1: meth user. It's easy to get antlers, it's easy to

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Speaker 1: get um trying to raise mo Yeah, somebody that's an addict,

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Speaker 1: you know. For example, So a couple of years ago,

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Speaker 1: I get a call. It's January. It was like a

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Speaker 1: January tenth or so, get a call from the local dispatch. Um,

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Speaker 1: I guess we got it from our Citizens Against Poaching

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Speaker 1: hotline that this person was calling in to report a

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Speaker 1: guy was going out to help his buddy um retrieve

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Speaker 1: a moose. Now, moose season had been closed for for

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Speaker 1: months January tenth. There's no big game season other than

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Speaker 1: lying open at that time of the year. And so

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Speaker 1: lo and behold, we go out there in the middle

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Speaker 1: of the night and actually contact these two guys. And

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Speaker 1: so the interesting thing was that the guy that was

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Speaker 1: doing the shooting, he had an appearance two days from

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Speaker 1: then for possession of meth. Oh really yeah, And so

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Speaker 1: those are the kind of people that you deal with,

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Speaker 1: you know. He wanted he thought he's gonna sell the hit.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what he was thinking, you know, but

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Speaker 1: it was probably Yeah, and he they didn't have a moose,

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Speaker 1: they didn't harvest the moose. Um they had shot it deer.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it was very apparent you could throw snow

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Speaker 1: in the ground, and so you could. They had spotlights

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Speaker 1: and yeah, it was he uh, you know, he was

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Speaker 1: hitting up on the hill when we got there, and

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Speaker 1: it's pitched dark, so it's a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: safety issue, you know. And so he ended up coming

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Speaker 1: out and then uh ended up finding his backpack, backtracking

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Speaker 1: him in the snow and finding his backpack and then

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Speaker 1: going through it. He had this uh fairly family hairloom

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Speaker 1: twenty two with a contractors laser electrical tape to the barrel. Dude,

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Speaker 1: that's a good idea. Yeah, But then here was the getter.

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Speaker 1: So and then he had a knife and it was

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Speaker 1: it was lock blade. So he opened it up and

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Speaker 1: on it says poacher and there's a whole bunch of

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Speaker 1: hashtags on it. No ship. Yeah, and he claims that

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Speaker 1: somebody gave it to him. But that that kind of

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Speaker 1: explains the mind of people, you know that. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's the things that we see as officers or game wardens.

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Speaker 1: Are a lot of people you couldn't even dream it up,

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Speaker 1: you know. But what's the what's the most common what's

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Speaker 1: the most common violation? So generally, as a patrol guy,

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Speaker 1: it would be like fishing without a license. You know,

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Speaker 1: somebody's just gonna go fish and you know, take their chance.

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Speaker 1: You're just gonna write there ticket all day long. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: all day long. What's the most common hunting related violation? Uh,

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Speaker 1: probably evidence of sex, you know, and sometimes you gotta

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Speaker 1: do you know. So you know, as a uniform guy,

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Speaker 1: you're looking for compliance. Right. It's a great day when

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Speaker 1: everybody is compliant, you know, and then you want to

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Speaker 1: balance that with deterrence, right, So you got to present

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Speaker 1: this tarade that you're everywhere all the time, you know,

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Speaker 1: to to so people don't violate because they're afraid they're

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Speaker 1: gonna get caught, right, But if they know they're not

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Speaker 1: going to get caught, then there's no motivation to not violate.

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Speaker 1: That's what that's Elder Leopold's famous line is ethics. You

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Speaker 1: know you're hunting ethics are what you do when you

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Speaker 1: know you won't be called and so yeah, a term

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Speaker 1: that I use anymore. Our situational ethics, you know, and

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Speaker 1: so um, each situation dictates at the ethics. And so

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Speaker 1: during the course of my career, you see different ethics

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Speaker 1: depending on which part of the state you might work in.

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Speaker 1: You know, we had a uh, the Citizens Against Poaching

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Speaker 1: program have a bunch of trailers with a bunch of

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Speaker 1: seized um heads in them. Tax there mad you know,

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Speaker 1: and stories related to it. And so we were running

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Speaker 1: one of those trailers in a in a small rural

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Speaker 1: town and this very nice older gentleman came up and

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Speaker 1: was thanking us for the job that we did, and um,

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Speaker 1: so on and so forth. But then he stopped and said,

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Speaker 1: I don't care how how hard you boys work. It's

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Speaker 1: just a way of life here. That's what we do

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Speaker 1: as poach. You know. It's just like it kind of

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Speaker 1: takes the wind out of your sales. You're like, hey,

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Speaker 1: thanks for being so appreciative, but thanks for telling us

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Speaker 1: that we're not having a we're not being you know,

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Speaker 1: deterring your your behavior. And it's just kind of how

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Speaker 1: it how it rolls, you know, and so you just

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Speaker 1: got to balance at deterrence and compliance. You know, like,

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Speaker 1: for example, I'm a field training officer, so I get

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Speaker 1: to train newer CEOs and so, you know, you might

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Speaker 1: have a close season elk for instance, and solve the case.

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Speaker 1: So you collect some kind of firearms evidence, ballistics evidence

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Speaker 1: and link it all up and the whole cases is solved.

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Speaker 1: You know who your suspect is, they get prosecuted. But

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Speaker 1: the thing that I related to a young officer is

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Speaker 1: we might have caught the bad guy, but that elk

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Speaker 1: is still dead. Yeah, it's not walking around anymore, you know.

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Speaker 1: And that's what you know, hopefully, that's what you want

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Speaker 1: to do, is having much of a terrence factor so

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Speaker 1: that stuff doesn't happen. My older brother, um, he's half

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Speaker 1: probably like my my father had a son long you know,

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Speaker 1: he was a grown man by the time I was born. Um.

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Speaker 1: He was a game ward in Colorado and he once

385
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Speaker 1: worked a case where a guy was colvert trapping black

386
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Speaker 1: bears but then selling them to clients. Jeez, but what

387
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 1: do you do is he opened the door on the

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Speaker 1: colvert and the client and shoot the bear when it

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Speaker 1: come out of the thing, and he had all these

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Speaker 1: pictures he showed me where he stakes it out with

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Speaker 1: the camera where the guys releasing the bear and the

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Speaker 1: guy opens the colvert and the bear runs out the guy.

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Speaker 1: The shooter misses the bear, so the bear just gets away,

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Speaker 1: but he goes and takes the guy to court and

395
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,239
Speaker 1: presents it. And only he got the guy on with

396
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Speaker 1: something because the guy never killed the bear. It was

397
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:47,439
Speaker 1: like some dischargeing a firearm or yeah, and sometimes there

398
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:49,960
Speaker 1: was no dead animal. Yeah and no, no, it was

399
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,119
Speaker 1: the guy got a legal transport of wildlife. Oh the

400
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 1: guy that was trap and so yeah, some of that.

401
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,159
Speaker 1: You know, you gotta look at the code. You know,

402
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 1: that's what we enforces um Idaho code. It's specifically Title

403
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 1: thirty six. And so as an officer, you have to

404
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:12,119
Speaker 1: really learn the definitions. So um, you know, the definition

405
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,399
Speaker 1: of like take is all encompassing. You know, it's uh

406
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 1: any attempt to do so you know, it's pretty much

407
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:22,479
Speaker 1: how it sums it up, you know, the pursuit actually hunting.

408
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:26,440
Speaker 1: It's it's very broad. And so knowing that you understand,

409
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 1: you get a better understanding how you need to react

410
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,359
Speaker 1: to a certain situation in the field, like when you

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Speaker 1: see Interregg's attempt to take, yeah, attempt to take Yeah. No,

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Speaker 1: so you don't have to actually kill something, yeah, exactly

413
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Speaker 1: when you're trying to do it when uh so, not

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Speaker 1: leaving evidence of sex on a quartered out animal is

415
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,440
Speaker 1: a very common violation. Yeah, it is. And a lot

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Speaker 1: of times it's just somebody gets carried away and drops

417
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 1: the necessary items off, you know, when they're skinning it

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Speaker 1: or quartering it. And so it's just one of those

419
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,440
Speaker 1: things you can use it as an educational tool. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what's another What are the more common ones? Is want

421
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 1: and waste common or not common? It's not so common.

422
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 1: Um so you see good compliance, sir, you do, you do,

423
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 1: you do, And it's kind of interesting. So in that

424
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 1: same little rural town, you know, you try to make

425
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 1: in roads. You know, the success of a of a

426
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:27,199
Speaker 1: uniform guy really relies on um their relationships. Right, So

427
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,239
Speaker 1: if they appreciate, at least in my experience, if they

428
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 1: appreciate you beyond just being the game warden. You know,

429
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 1: if you if if they see that you're treating everybody

430
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 1: the same, you know, then they're going to give you

431
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 1: a little bit more respect. And so but for whatever reason,

432
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 1: and in those rural towns they're like, hey, you know,

433
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 1: people gotta eat. As long as they're not wasting it,

434
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 1: it's none of my business, you know, And it's you know,

435
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 1: it's like, well, listen, you know that might have been

436
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 1: the case back in the depression years, but there's lots

437
00:25:59,920 --> 00:26:04,160
Speaker 1: of programs anymore where you know, you can get meat

438
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 1: to fill your freezer, you know, other than poaching the

439
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 1: state's wildlife, you know, And it's I mean, in the end,

440
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,680
Speaker 1: it's it's all of our wildlife, right, you know, whether

441
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:16,120
Speaker 1: you're a licensed buyer or not, or appreciate wildlife in general.

442
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 1: And so that's kind of the sad thing to you know,

443
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 1: you can't break it, get over that hump with them.

444
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 1: You know. It's just like it's more than like if

445
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:32,159
Speaker 1: someone's using it needs it. It's I think people would

446
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 1: argue that it's in the rules. Man. Do you does

447
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 1: Idaho have the deal where shooting trophy animals is way

448
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 1: worse than Yeah, they're they're they're associated with trophy penalties.

449
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 1: So break that down for people. So in Idaho there's

450
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: a general civil penalty, and so I believe and I

451
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,880
Speaker 1: can't rattle off to the actual numbers. But I think

452
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 1: it's a like for an elk, it would be just

453
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,160
Speaker 1: generally elk, it would be a seven or fifty dollar

454
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: civil penalty. Okay, that's what's assessed. I think that's right

455
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:08,919
Speaker 1: on a fact checks. Go, yeah, I got it that

456
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 1: we got for the for the game warrings, the closer

457
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 1: I can finally just broken down by a number of people,

458
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 1: California is the worst, uh for game wardens per hunter. Yeah,

459
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 1: it's um d eighty five thousands, and then Montana had

460
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 1: In contrast, Montana has about undred, and Wyoming is hundred.

461
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 1: Alaska has one for every Yeah about those and that's

462
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:49,160
Speaker 1: just that's just population that's not actual. Then you can

463
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 1: you can kind of draw some conclusions from there. Yeah,

464
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:57,679
Speaker 1: so of the population hall but then a California has

465
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 1: one of the lowest participation rates exactly, so one New

466
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 1: Jersey California. So we're we're oh, yeah, so shooting big

467
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 1: critters compared little critters. Yeah, and so then it it

468
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 1: jumps up. Okay, so, uh, like a trophy, what would

469
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 1: it be a trophy which is bounces off of the

470
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 1: Boone and Crockett definition of trophy, it would be what

471
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:24,400
Speaker 1: the minimum is for antler size UM, with the exception

472
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:28,680
Speaker 1: of any sheep, any mountain goat, any moose, um, any caribou,

473
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: mountain caribou. They those have specific there's no trophy associated

474
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 1: with it, just straight up um ten dollar trophy five yeah, yeah, yep.

475
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 1: And so so what okay? Why that? Why is it

476
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: seven and sixty for an elk and ten thousand for

477
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 1: a mountain goat? So that would be just for so

478
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,959
Speaker 1: if they take um and I should have the numbers

479
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 1: in front of me, I don't want to miss quote them.

480
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 1: But so a uh so like a cow ow close season,

481
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 1: it would be seven fifty al right, that would be

482
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 1: the civil penalty. But if it was a bull elk

483
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 1: and it was trophy, I think it jumps up to

484
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: two thousand and so those are those inflation numbers, right,

485
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 1: They may not have been they haven't been adjusted forever,

486
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 1: you know, but but it is. It is trying to

487
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 1: send a message, is trying to differentiate the pot hunter

488
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 1: but from the guy who's the swinging, dick bragging hunter. Well,

489
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 1: I think it just I don't think that's really the

490
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 1: necessarily intention of it. You know, It's just I think

491
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 1: that society or hunters value trophy animals more, you know,

492
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 1: and so there's just more value placed on those individual

493
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 1: animals as compared to a cow, elk or a dome ule,

494
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 1: deerra white house. So you don't think it's a way

495
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 1: to like be leaning on people who are shooting portion

496
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 1: for meat. No, No, not at all. It's just the

497
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 1: value system, the value of the animals to the state. Yeah, yeah, exactly,

498
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 1: And so you know, and all of that is you know,

499
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 1: it's ida whole law, and so it's it's enacted by

500
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 1: the legislature of the state and so which you know,

501
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 1: do as the people want theoretically, and so that's how

502
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 1: those things come about. Do you feel that, um, And

503
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: I don't want to put you in any kind of

504
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 1: situation where you're, you know, where you're saying stuff you

505
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 1: should say, or you know, we're walking to five a line.

506
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 1: But do you feel that people in enforcement such as yourself,

507
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 1: do they generally feel that, man, we should be um

508
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 1: having steeper penalties or should this you know, I can't

509
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 1: believe this guy got off with this amount of money

510
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 1: or do you generally feel like that the punishment fits

511
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 1: the crime? So I think generally you don't even have

512
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: to break it down in into terms of enforcement personnel

513
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: or somebody else, you know. I mean, even you just

514
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 1: a second and said, man, why why is it so low?

515
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, I mean so I think the general

516
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 1: public would would think, you know, depending on how egregious

517
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 1: the crime is. And you see it all the time,

518
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: you know, on the internet anymore, that people are are

519
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 1: very hyped up when there's good penalties. I mean you'll

520
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 1: see it. It'll it'll hit the internet and it's great

521
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 1: and people are happy with that, and you know, or

522
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 1: if it's a bad penalty, I mean you'll see that

523
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: on the internet, you know, in social media that man,

524
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 1: why didn't you get more of a fine or more

525
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 1: of a revocation? And so, you know, it's it's as

526
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 1: much of a It's kind of interesting because here we

527
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 1: are as as sportsman, and we we do our part

528
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 1: in conservation, but there's one more staff and that's you know,

529
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: we always talk about biology as a course of conservation,

530
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 1: but rarely do we talk about enforcement, you know, And

531
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 1: so that's more of a way for the public to

532
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 1: get involved as enforcement, not only reporting violations, but taking

533
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 1: note to these penalties that are assessed and even you know,

534
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 1: doing what ever to enhance the penalties. Yeah, you need

535
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: telling about the violation we reported the other night. M M.

536
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 1: It's a long story. We just have to be hunting

537
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 1: near a populated area, but you just happen to have

538
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 1: national forests, like, you know, right behind folks houses. And uh,

539
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 1: Steve had never been in that situation, so he's a

540
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 1: little uneasy about it. I'm like, yeah, but it's like

541
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 1: it's fine, Like we're following the rules, like it's all good,

542
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 1: you know. It's like, yeah, as long as you're not

543
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 1: killed elk there, killed elk there, killed elk there. There's

544
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 1: a sign where on national forest. Yeah, as long as

545
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,479
Speaker 1: you don't like shoot at the elk when the houses

546
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 1: are you know, on the other side of the elk. Yeah,

547
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 1: being like national forest, but you're perched up above like

548
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 1: a small town. And I also said, I said, there's

549
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 1: some locals running around here that no matter what, how

550
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 1: would it kind of mistake we could possibly make. They've

551
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 1: already done it and probably done in tenfold and not

552
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 1: what ten gooifteen minutes later we hear shots ring out

553
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 1: and we're like ship that's closed. Were like, I'm thinking

554
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 1: about hitting the dirt. Yeah, and we finally find shots,

555
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 1: find the origin of these shots, and we see a

556
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:17,719
Speaker 1: dude running like we couldn't really see where he was

557
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 1: taking the shots from, but we see him running down

558
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 1: the road back to his truck. No orange John, No

559
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 1: running down the road with the right cars blowing past. Yeah,

560
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 1: go ahead, Yeah, throws his rifle in the truck, put

561
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 1: his orange on. In Colorado, you have to have a

562
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 1: hat on. Doesn't put a hat on, then grab his

563
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 1: rifle and more AMMO and continues to go up the hill.

564
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 1: But we don't know if he was He might have

565
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 1: been from the center line, which is yeah. But then

566
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 1: he finagles is way back down to the road, touches

567
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 1: off six more rounds to make a total of ten rounds.

568
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 1: And then the next time I shined my look like

569
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 1: a my binoculars down there, he's been visited by police officer. Yeah,

570
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 1: And it's it's amazing how people just lose their mind

571
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,840
Speaker 1: over over wildlife. I mean, it's just it's kind of

572
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 1: startling that that they they would do that. You know.

573
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:16,840
Speaker 1: It's like I have a little respect for for the

574
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 1: wildlife and fair chase for that matter, you know. And

575
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 1: I mean I don't understand it. Do you know? Have

576
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 1: you read or heard of a UM prominent conservationist and

577
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:35,320
Speaker 1: author named Jim Postil. It's by chance I had occasion

578
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 1: to interview him for a movie project. A film project

579
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:42,439
Speaker 1: will inherit the Hunt right beyond Fair Chase, Yeah, which

580
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:47,840
Speaker 1: is that's a staple and hunter education now UM interviewed

581
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 1: him for a documentary we're doing? What do you guys

582
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 1: going on over there? Remy? I was just checking things,

583
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 1: but I couldn't find the fines or any of that.

584
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:58,320
Speaker 1: But there is a regulation book sitting right there somewhere

585
00:34:58,320 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 1: if you see it, just on the check anything do

586
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 1: because I know you've been busy and you've been doing

587
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 1: a great job. But is there anything you need to

588
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 1: add at this point? Well, I think with some of

589
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 1: the violations, you know, the fines even like say these

590
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 1: trophy areas or whatever, I would think, why don't they

591
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:15,839
Speaker 1: just open it up to an auction. See how much

592
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 1: someone would pay for that tag? Because I know it's

593
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 1: quite a bit more than they're paying for the fines

594
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,839
Speaker 1: for the charge that so they double so somebody gets

595
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,759
Speaker 1: a tag next year for that to do the shot

596
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 1: has to pay that. Yeah, they dude, they got that

597
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 1: gigantic buck off that winter range arian Wyoming. Yeah, that's

598
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 1: a hundred thollar bucked. Right, Why don't why don't we

599
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 1: let the market decide what that guy's finest auction off

600
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 1: one tag? And that's the thing. I mean, you think

601
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:45,439
Speaker 1: about how valuable wildlife is anymore, and I mean that's

602
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 1: how that's how civil penalty should be assessed, you know,

603
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 1: as what you know, granted, more people, some people have

604
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:56,760
Speaker 1: more money than others, but I mean market value of yeah, yeah, exactly,

605
00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 1: because it's a lot more than three thousand or two

606
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 1: thousand all what I mean. You know, in some of

607
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:05,800
Speaker 1: these places, people are paying ten times that to go

608
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 1: shoot something like that? Can hear? Somebody stole it from

609
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 1: a guy that could have drawn that tag on his own,

610
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,799
Speaker 1: and now you know he's taking from everyone and it's

611
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 1: not it doesn't seem like the return is the same

612
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 1: as especially if it's something that was intentional and he's

613
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 1: set out that day to go make that violation. Yeah,

614
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: that's nothing I want to ask you about. But let's

615
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 1: make this gym possible this point real quick. Um. He

616
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:33,879
Speaker 1: said something to me when I was talking to him

617
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:37,399
Speaker 1: that it's really really uh stuck with me. We're talking

618
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,319
Speaker 1: about like unethical hunting practices, but I think it's appropriate

619
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 1: for poaching too. He's like, why why it's so offensive?

620
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:50,360
Speaker 1: As he was explaining, is is that we've created like

621
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 1: the symbol of American wildlife. Okay, So an elk, for instance,

622
00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:01,280
Speaker 1: has its value because of this system we've created around

623
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 1: it where it's like this wild animal that takes a

624
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 1: skill set and effort to go get Okay, it's elusive,

625
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 1: it's hard. You have a lot of areas where success

626
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 1: rates are ten or right, So the elk value was

627
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 1: created by a monitored system of wildlife management. Okay, it's

628
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 1: there's an exclusivity to the animal, right. Yeah. And when

629
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,399
Speaker 1: you when you cut corners to get it, what you're

630
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 1: chasing after is the value that was created by the

631
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 1: legitimacy of the pursuit. And you just want like you

632
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 1: want the symbolism and you're cashing in on the value

633
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 1: of something, but you're doing it in a way that

634
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:56,239
Speaker 1: like completely disrespects where the value came from, Like a

635
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: shooting a gigantic bowl. It's like buying it's like buying

636
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:04,839
Speaker 1: a uh a fancy watch in downtown Manhattan. But you're

637
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 1: only paying bucks for it, you know what I'm saying.

638
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 1: You kind of like, no, there's this company, Rolex. It

639
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 1: makes you so when people see that, they think, oh,

640
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 1: this is a man of mean with taste and class. Yeah,

641
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 1: but I just bought it for twenty bucks. And then

642
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 1: here I am, and now people are gonna think the

643
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 1: same way about me. Yeah, and here I have a

644
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 1: two mule deer on my wall. And man, that's a

645
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 1: heck of a mule deer, you know. And that's the

646
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 1: story behind cashing in on all the glory created by

647
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:38,800
Speaker 1: all the dudes out there pounding the ground. Yeah, yeah, exactly,

648
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 1: And I got it, and it's yeah, and it's a

649
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 1: great point that jim makes, you know. And I mean

650
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 1: we've we've done it to ourselves in society, you know.

651
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,839
Speaker 1: It's just that the value has gone up and up

652
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:54,240
Speaker 1: and up, you know, Jimmy and the else a remy

653
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 1: right now, that's it. But I'll jump in when I uh,

654
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 1: you were you were just talking. And remember you made

655
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,759
Speaker 1: a point about especially when you've got malicious intent, like

656
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:08,399
Speaker 1: like clearly you like you did like accidentally poach. Yeah,

657
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: I've seen well I have a newspaper clipping in in

658
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 1: a cookbook that I have at home that's got the

659
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 1: picture of a dead lama in the back of a truck,

660
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:18,799
Speaker 1: and this guy legitimately thought that it was an elk,

661
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:21,760
Speaker 1: you know. And it's like, I mean, that's just plain stupid.

662
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 1: But then I've been around here before and seeing people

663
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 1: driving into a check station or whatever, going oh, look

664
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,800
Speaker 1: at this white tail I shot and it's a bifurcated

665
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 1: four by four in mule here You're going, oh my god,

666
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 1: it's and so I mean nothing. I think there's like

667
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:43,319
Speaker 1: a non malicious intent, a true accident, and then just

668
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 1: plain stupid and plain stupids up with malicious intent but

669
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 1: not as much as an accident. Yeah there there. There

670
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 1: was this old game wording that I I used to

671
00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 1: work work with and he since retired, but you know,

672
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 1: he sease the old comparison. If it walks like a duck,

673
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 1: quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it's a duck.

674
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 1: And so but he would replace duck with poacher, you know,

675
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:12,760
Speaker 1: And and so it's it. It's a very broad statement,

676
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,279
Speaker 1: but once you do, once you're a game word or

677
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,359
Speaker 1: ceo for long enough, you kind of figure it out.

678
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 1: There are those people that make honest mistakes, and so

679
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 1: you have to you know, handle those situations as an

680
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 1: educational opportunity. And then there's others that are premeditated and

681
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:34,920
Speaker 1: malicious about it and and so. But it's a it's

682
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 1: a fine line that you walk trying to decide on,

683
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 1: you know, but you do you do practice leniency? Oh yeah,

684
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:45,399
Speaker 1: absolutely if you know the mistake was made. Oh yeah, absolutely.

685
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 1: You you'd sent me a thing where a guy you'd

686
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 1: sent me a thing where you were observing some fishermen.

687
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:58,840
Speaker 1: Didn't you send this to me? Someone said this to me.

688
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 1: I thought were like early communicating about you coming out,

689
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 1: and he said me a think where a guy had

690
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:08,800
Speaker 1: um where a fisherman had like costs and fish and

691
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 1: had him on a stringer. Then act that was probably

692
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 1: in the magazine. Yeah, had a video. It was a

693
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:18,399
Speaker 1: magazine article. Yeah, it was an article, you said, Yeah,

694
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 1: a copy of the Idaho a Warden magazine. But a

695
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:26,320
Speaker 1: guy like a Warden observes of dude catching fish he

696
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 1: wasn't allowed to have probably gross over limits string and

697
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 1: then when the warden goes down, um, he's like catching No, Well,

698
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 1: what's that string out there, and then the guy would

699
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 1: wait around act like he couldn't find it, and they'd

700
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 1: all got in a way, yeah, letting him off. Yeah,

701
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 1: and then the warden went out and probably found the

702
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 1: stringer right where he thought it was. So there you

703
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 1: got a guy he's like just outright bullshit, absolute intent, yeah,

704
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:57,759
Speaker 1: which would which would kind of like almost make it

705
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:03,760
Speaker 1: like personal. Yeah, but you can't. So that that's another

706
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,799
Speaker 1: thing that you know, for young officers to understand that

707
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:11,440
Speaker 1: it's not it's not personal. You know, um, yeah, you

708
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 1: wear this uniform today, but and it probably is in

709
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 1: a front to to the uniform, you know, like hey,

710
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get one over on the game warden, you know,

711
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 1: but they don't look at the name tag. You know,

712
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:25,839
Speaker 1: it's you're you're the guy in the green in the gray.

713
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:27,880
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what our uniforms are in Idaho. And

714
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 1: so it's the guy or the gal in the green

715
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 1: in the gray. I'm gonna get one over on the union,

716
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 1: on the the game warden. And that's all it is.

717
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:38,720
Speaker 1: You know, at night, you can't go home taking everything personal.

718
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,799
Speaker 1: I mean, it would drive you crazy, you know. You know,

719
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 1: it's just not a good way to conduct business, because

720
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 1: then you just get yeah, I mean they're still hunters,

721
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 1: they're still fishermen, they're still licensed buyers. There are great

722
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 1: hunters and fishermen out there, you know, in in reality

723
00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:02,319
Speaker 1: almost upwards. If it's ly close to the contacts said

724
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 1: that we as CEO is make don't involve violation. It's

725
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 1: just a regular compliance contact, which is is great. You know,

726
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 1: it's what whether it's a fisherman or you go into

727
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:17,840
Speaker 1: a camp during the fall, I mean, there's no violations.

728
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:21,399
Speaker 1: Everybody's compliant. I mean it. And do you even push

729
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 1: it further if you've built the relationship with those people

730
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 1: and then you look how to look forward to seeing them?

731
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, look folks from such and such a back

732
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 1: camp down at that same spot. Oh man, they got

733
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 1: a new wall tent this year. So so you you

734
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 1: find you find yourself rooting for the people, Like you

735
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:41,880
Speaker 1: pull up, You're not like, man, I hope they have

736
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 1: a violation. Yeah, absolutely not. But with that being said,

737
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 1: when you get out of the truck, you're like, is

738
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 1: there a violation? You're not like, man, I hope I

739
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,359
Speaker 1: get to write a ticket. Absolutely not. And if that's

740
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:56,520
Speaker 1: how you're doing. If that's how you're doing your job,

741
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:58,839
Speaker 1: you know that, oh I want to I want to

742
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 1: write a ticket, then that's a poor way of doing

743
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 1: the job. If you get out of the truck and

744
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 1: say my job is for compliance and and if there's

745
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 1: a violation, I'm gonna find it without a DOLLA. But

746
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:12,919
Speaker 1: you don't like hope, man, I hope this next camp

747
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:15,680
Speaker 1: has a violation. Hope I get a ticket. Yeah, that's

748
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 1: not that's not how we operate. So what about people

749
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:27,880
Speaker 1: who come Let's just say a hypothetical that you like. Hypothetical. Okay,

750
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:30,360
Speaker 1: just so that I've seen half, I know what happens.

751
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 1: You shoot a deer and you go there, there's two

752
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 1: deer landers. Did you know there's one behind the deer. Okay,

753
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:38,879
Speaker 1: guy comes to you and says, calls up, I got

754
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:44,760
Speaker 1: a problem. Here's what happened. Do you? Is that different

755
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 1: to you? Let's say, okay, let's say this happens to

756
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:52,320
Speaker 1: two guys. Both we just know because of omniscient knowledge,

757
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 1: we know that both were accidental. One comes and tells

758
00:44:56,200 --> 00:45:00,280
Speaker 1: you about it. Now they're both accidental. One guy homes

759
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:02,880
Speaker 1: and tells you about it. When you find out about

760
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 1: do you view those two situations differently? Absolutely? So, yeah,

761
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 1: it happens a lot. And we have this discussion with

762
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 1: with people that violate, and as you know, you can

763
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:21,760
Speaker 1: make a poor action worse by the way you respond

764
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:25,920
Speaker 1: to it, you know, and so um, you can dig

765
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:28,840
Speaker 1: yourself a much deeper hole. And if you would just

766
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:34,359
Speaker 1: be honest and come forward right away, that hole would

767
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 1: not have gotten dug at all. Right, And so that

768
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 1: guy that reported that accidental kill, Yeah, there's ways of

769
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:43,719
Speaker 1: handle in that. And it doesn't always involve a violation

770
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:46,799
Speaker 1: or writing a citations. But the guy that leaves the

771
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 1: other one on the hill and then just denies he

772
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:52,399
Speaker 1: shot it, until you dig a bullet out and be like, yeah,

773
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 1: this this to seventy lead you know, when what are

774
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 1: you shooting two seventy You don't, well, no, it couldn't

775
00:45:59,920 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 1: have in me. Was there anybody else here with you? No? No,

776
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 1: well let's line up the shot here. And yeah, that's

777
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 1: how they handle the situation. And you can make matters

778
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 1: a lot worse, you know, And a lot of times

779
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 1: that you see that, you know, so you would say

780
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:16,439
Speaker 1: like and not just doing your job, but it being

781
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 1: a just just being a guy you would say that

782
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:25,400
Speaker 1: it's better to call up and go I have a problem. Yeah, absolutely, yeah,

783
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:27,880
Speaker 1: And we see it all the time. A few times

784
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:29,840
Speaker 1: that we had to call and we would call in

785
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 1: when we had a violation. Some you know, you'd leave

786
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:35,799
Speaker 1: a client. I was a guide in Colorado. We'd leave

787
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 1: a client and uh, the guy shoot him, youle dear

788
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:41,280
Speaker 1: dough once thought it was a you know, small small

789
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:44,799
Speaker 1: cow elk and uh that I kept trying to think

790
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,279
Speaker 1: what the other one was. But but twice basically the

791
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 1: war came up and uh, look the whole situation over

792
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 1: and was like, all right, pay for the processing, donate

793
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 1: to meat, you keep keep you talk, keep hunting. Yeah,

794
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 1: like it was individual. You know, there's a there's kind

795
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:08,399
Speaker 1: of this this unwritten playbook. I guess you could say

796
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:11,040
Speaker 1: how to handle those situations, you know, and a lot

797
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:13,759
Speaker 1: of times that that's what you see an officer will do,

798
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:16,880
Speaker 1: is you know, or say that say that they do

799
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:20,600
Speaker 1: shoot the elk um, they say they shoot a bull,

800
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:23,080
Speaker 1: but it passed through kills a cow case and now

801
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:25,279
Speaker 1: you have a cow on the hill. And so rather

802
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 1: than uh, you know, leaving that on there, they leaving

803
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 1: it on the hill, They call and report it. You

804
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 1: go up and be like, okay, well you guys need

805
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 1: to pack that thing down to my truck and we're

806
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 1: gonna take to the food bank. That's back to that

807
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 1: whole thing, that there's opportunities for people to get game

808
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 1: meat other than going out and poaching it, and so,

809
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:46,279
Speaker 1: you know, and and paying for the processing you know, um,

810
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 1: and so that those are the way you kind of

811
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 1: handle those things. And it's a good way. I mean,

812
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:54,319
Speaker 1: it's a good way for everybody. You know. Actually, they

813
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:56,320
Speaker 1: would always give us a choice. It was like that

814
00:47:56,640 --> 00:48:03,479
Speaker 1: or lose your license and you next year, Like yeah,

815
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:07,360
Speaker 1: I don't you know, yeah we we, I don't. We

816
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:10,320
Speaker 1: don't give choices. It's a you know, because then it's

817
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:14,759
Speaker 1: almost like extortion in a way, like hey, you know,

818
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 1: you hold faster your decision. No, this is what I've

819
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:19,759
Speaker 1: done fifty other times. This is what I do how

820
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 1: I handle the situation. So does the bulk of your

821
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 1: the bulk of your more high profiles not the word

822
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:34,800
Speaker 1: I'm looking for, um, but serious offenses. Okay, serious, I'm

823
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 1: moving away from accidents now. Okay, So if you look

824
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 1: at you know, over the last few years or whatever,

825
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 1: and you look at the bulk of your what you'd

826
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:49,440
Speaker 1: call poaching cases, like intentional malicious intent poaching cases. Do

827
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 1: most of those cases originate from tip lines or do

828
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 1: they originate from just field work and having officers on

829
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 1: the ground. Yeah, so that's a that's a rate question, Steve,

830
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 1: because we in Idaho, UM, I think it was. We

831
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:11,399
Speaker 1: had a study done on our law enforcement program done

832
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:14,399
Speaker 1: by the University of Idaho, and that was actually UM

833
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 1: kind of one of the questions I got teased out

834
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:20,600
Speaker 1: of how do you report violations? And so very few

835
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 1: of the violations come from the cap line. Most of

836
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:29,360
Speaker 1: them come from UM contact with an individual officer because

837
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:31,600
Speaker 1: people aren't using the lines, but they don't know how,

838
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:34,879
Speaker 1: they don't know how to use them effectively. I mean,

839
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 1: the the cap line gets a pile of calls, but

840
00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 1: when you you start teasing it out and you're like, well, jeez,

841
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 1: this this isn't a this isn't a violet. You know,

842
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:46,360
Speaker 1: it's not a violation. You know, like, oh, I've I

843
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:49,359
Speaker 1: see five dumped carcasses. Well, it's because somebody was too

844
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 1: lazy to take it to the dump and they wanted

845
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:52,720
Speaker 1: to they didn't want to put it in their garbage

846
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 1: can because pickup wasn't until you know Tuesday, and today's

847
00:49:56,239 --> 00:49:58,839
Speaker 1: Monday or you know, Wednesday of the previous week. So

848
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 1: you know, they don't want it sticking up, and so

849
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:02,320
Speaker 1: they just take it and dump it something or to

850
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:08,320
Speaker 1: hear a shot. They hear shot somebody hunting season exactly,

851
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 1: and so there's you know, that's kind of where it

852
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:13,440
Speaker 1: all balances. So the tipline gets inundated with calls, but

853
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:16,399
Speaker 1: not a lot of like real workable stuff. Yeah. Yeah,

854
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 1: I mean it does get workable stuff. And they're very

855
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 1: very they're a great tool. And I would encourage anybody

856
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:24,120
Speaker 1: that witnesses a violation to call it. You know, in

857
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 1: Idaho and I'm sure in most western states and they

858
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:32,400
Speaker 1: there's a reward for reporting violations and that are successfully.

859
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:35,440
Speaker 1: In Utah, they've got a deal where if you report

860
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:38,840
Speaker 1: a violation and it's convicted in a trophy unit, you

861
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:41,799
Speaker 1: receive a tag the next year. I don't think there's

862
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 1: anybody Henry's and just start lasting for violators, because I

863
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:54,239
Speaker 1: would catch a violator probably quicker than night every draw tag.

864
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:57,160
Speaker 1: You're kidding me, No, that's a cool that's a great

865
00:50:57,200 --> 00:50:59,080
Speaker 1: way to get a take because like the money thing

866
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 1: just seems kind of biggest. But it's like, if I

867
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:04,799
Speaker 1: could have a tag here next year, well plus we

868
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:09,000
Speaker 1: could do something. We get a guy that doesn't hunt anyway,

869
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 1: send him in there to commit a crime, but see

870
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:16,920
Speaker 1: glass him up, turn him in, he takes the fall,

871
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:19,560
Speaker 1: and we get a sweet tag. Don't see you take

872
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 1: he gets the fall, You get the tag. Then I

873
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:30,480
Speaker 1: report the conspiracy. The dominoes are beginning to fall. That's

874
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 1: a great that's a great idea. Man. I wonder if

875
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:36,719
Speaker 1: they've given out any tags yet. I don't know so,

876
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 1: but a lot of those steve they It comes down

877
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:42,319
Speaker 1: to again, it comes back to those relationships. It's so

878
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 1: important as a field officer to But let me back here,

879
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:48,560
Speaker 1: because you were saying, so you were comparing tipline to

880
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:54,240
Speaker 1: what to individual officer relationships and reports directly to officers. Okay,

881
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:57,760
Speaker 1: if I met officers just sniffing stuff out now reported,

882
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:02,359
Speaker 1: so people will all their officers. We still I mean

883
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:05,879
Speaker 1: as far as reports, Yeah, there's far more that come

884
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:10,840
Speaker 1: that are successfully prosecuted through officer contact than there is.

885
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:16,040
Speaker 1: So people being familiar with their officer, calling their officer

886
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:20,319
Speaker 1: directly and saying, hey, here's what's up. Yeah, yeah, it's

887
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 1: I've like watched a few people poaching before and breaking

888
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:29,759
Speaker 1: numerous violations and called the tipline and it's just like

889
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:33,080
Speaker 1: nothing happened. Then they came back the next weekend did

890
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:35,680
Speaker 1: the same exact thing, and I just called the local

891
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:39,880
Speaker 1: officer and within matter of you know, an hour, the

892
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:44,120
Speaker 1: I was completely yeah, you've been charged and everything. Why

893
00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 1: do you think that? Is? I the so this time

894
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:52,320
Speaker 1: of the year that the tip lines are inundated with calls,

895
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:54,680
Speaker 1: and again they don't a lot of them don't add up,

896
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:57,160
Speaker 1: and then um, there are a lot of them are

897
00:52:57,160 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 1: call centers, and so you're not getting all the information.

898
00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:03,560
Speaker 1: And but it's just like I said, it's just having

899
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:06,400
Speaker 1: that positive relationship in your communities and then people just

900
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:09,440
Speaker 1: know that, you know, you're going to treat treat those

901
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:12,879
Speaker 1: the next person the same way, you know, and so

902
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:16,839
Speaker 1: they're more willing to give you good information with reportable

903
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 1: violations that are prosecutable. Now, what was the uh, what's

904
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:28,839
Speaker 1: been the worst like poaching case You've worked so over

905
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:32,080
Speaker 1: sixteen years. Of course there's been all kinds. It just

906
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:35,719
Speaker 1: runs the gamut. And and so it's kind of say,

907
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:41,000
Speaker 1: like what the worst is, you know, like memorable, memorable, interesting, worst,

908
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:44,280
Speaker 1: like just a handful. I mean every year it gets

909
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:47,640
Speaker 1: more memorable. You know. It's like we're looking at those uh,

910
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:52,279
Speaker 1: those decoy videos. I mean, yeah, they're pretty they're egregious violations,

911
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:54,919
Speaker 1: and they're you know, I think that most people would

912
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:57,759
Speaker 1: be appalled when they watch them. You know, so uh,

913
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 1: showing us before we came out and showing us videos

914
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:09,480
Speaker 1: of a essays, Yeah, artificially simulated animals. Yeah. So basically, uh,

915
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 1: when you got some people, you know, we're up to

916
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:14,280
Speaker 1: know good, you put out like a fake dear elk

917
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:18,480
Speaker 1: and then just see what happens when they drive by. Yeah,

918
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:20,480
Speaker 1: and this thing doesn't look like a target. This thing

919
00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:24,279
Speaker 1: looks like it's a good full taxidermy. Yeah. Yeah, which

920
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:29,720
Speaker 1: is in that public opinion survey that we did, um

921
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:34,160
Speaker 1: that is ranked as one of the lowest acceptable forms

922
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 1: of enforcement that we use by the public. They think

923
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 1: it's entrapment. No, they don't think it's entrapment. They just

924
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:42,920
Speaker 1: don't like to be duped. They don't like to be tricked,

925
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:47,640
Speaker 1: is how it goes. Yeah, Yeah, but I think they

926
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:49,719
Speaker 1: had three It had a handful of cases that it's

927
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:55,879
Speaker 1: it's it's it's on YouTube, right game. Yeah, Um, so

928
00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:58,359
Speaker 1: they got it there. They put one out at night

929
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:01,520
Speaker 1: on a road and this some bitch knew what he

930
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 1: was doing because this dude rolls up and it's instantly

931
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:07,400
Speaker 1: out of the truck shooting like he knew it. He

932
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:10,080
Speaker 1: was like night hunt. Yeah, because there's no way you'd

933
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:13,239
Speaker 1: have he didn't take enough time to like assess the

934
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 1: situation look around for his gun. Yeah. This guy like

935
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:20,440
Speaker 1: piled out of the passengers side and black. A lot

936
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:25,080
Speaker 1: of those guys that we get in no situations, they

937
00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 1: got sneakers on, like there's no way they're getting out

938
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:33,040
Speaker 1: of the truck that day. They have no intention, they

939
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:34,920
Speaker 1: have no intention to getting out of the truck that day.

940
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:37,319
Speaker 1: They're just gonna go road hunt all day, you know.

941
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:40,400
Speaker 1: And another one, some people roll up on a s

942
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 1: A that's a cowelt and the shooter is just riding

943
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:49,120
Speaker 1: around in the back of the truck with shorts but

944
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:51,239
Speaker 1: already in the back of the truck like ready to

945
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:55,840
Speaker 1: roll get some cracks off. But her her, the driver,

946
00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:58,520
Speaker 1: her man or whoever it was, he had a good

947
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:01,560
Speaker 1: cow call coming out of called out of the running

948
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:04,960
Speaker 1: out of the truck. Another guy. It was like some

949
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 1: a party that was shooting a lot of white tails

950
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:10,279
Speaker 1: out of a boat. Officers said, can't be shooting that

951
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:14,239
Speaker 1: white tails out of the boat. Next year, they put

952
00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:15,840
Speaker 1: one out on the edge of the lake they like

953
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:17,480
Speaker 1: to hunt out of their boat. They pull up, what

954
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:20,080
Speaker 1: rip off fourteen shots at it? Yeah, in a minute

955
00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:23,960
Speaker 1: thirty seconds seconds. Yeah, out of two bolt action rifles,

956
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:26,040
Speaker 1: which I mean, that's a lot of reloading going on.

957
00:56:26,719 --> 00:56:29,360
Speaker 1: The one with the lady in the back of the

958
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:31,640
Speaker 1: truck shooting kind of maybe me think, like I've seen,

959
00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:34,920
Speaker 1: you know, a handful of wildlife violations that I've reported,

960
00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:38,239
Speaker 1: and a lot of them had family there, like there

961
00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:41,480
Speaker 1: was kids, there was and it's almost like they're just

962
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:44,440
Speaker 1: raised Like when I teach someone how to hunt, like

963
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:47,560
Speaker 1: you know, ethics and this and that goes into it,

964
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:51,520
Speaker 1: and it's like they're just doing the exact opposite in poaching,

965
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:53,440
Speaker 1: Like do you see that a lot where it's almost

966
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:56,120
Speaker 1: a generational thing like that's how we hunt, that's how

967
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:58,680
Speaker 1: they learned. And so yeah, it comes back to that

968
00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:02,160
Speaker 1: situational ethics at me and so in some in a

969
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:04,279
Speaker 1: lot of these communities that we work. I mean, they're

970
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:07,080
Speaker 1: very rural and so you as the officer or one

971
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:11,160
Speaker 1: of the lead hunter ed hunter education instructors and so

972
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:14,680
Speaker 1: you know all these kids and then shoot a couple

973
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:17,440
Speaker 1: of years later, here they do. They come rolling up

974
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:20,160
Speaker 1: blasting the decoy, you know, and it's just like, hey,

975
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:23,520
Speaker 1: weren't you Were you in my hunter ed class? You know,

976
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:25,960
Speaker 1: and it's just like what what where do we go wrong?

977
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:29,640
Speaker 1: You know? Or hey? Who you know? You don't recognize

978
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:31,360
Speaker 1: when I'd be like, hey, who'd you who would you

979
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:34,760
Speaker 1: take hunter ed from? Oh, officers such and such? Well,

980
00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 1: I know we covered this, so what's the deal, you know?

981
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:41,160
Speaker 1: And it's that situational ethics. They just you know, like

982
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:42,720
Speaker 1: one of them. One of the things that sticks out

983
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:45,160
Speaker 1: to me is a is another decoy. And we spend

984
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:47,120
Speaker 1: a lot of time in the region and I work

985
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:50,160
Speaker 1: in dealing with decoys because we have a trespass issue

986
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:52,600
Speaker 1: and a road hunting issue, which is a is a

987
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:55,360
Speaker 1: safety issue is what it comes down to. And they,

988
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:58,760
Speaker 1: I mean they it was a granddad taking his his

989
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:02,080
Speaker 1: grandson out. And it's not like granddad was old, he

990
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:05,240
Speaker 1: was in his fifties, but it was ten degrees that morning,

991
00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:07,680
Speaker 1: and so here we are standing out in the bushes

992
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:10,600
Speaker 1: and the dark, freezing her butts off. And then lo

993
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:12,760
Speaker 1: and behold they come rolling up and this kid just

994
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:16,040
Speaker 1: to hunt her head that year, you know, and it's

995
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:18,760
Speaker 1: just like and Granddad's got sneakers on. He's like, well

996
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:20,720
Speaker 1: it's ten degrees. You think we're gonna go walk in

997
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:23,280
Speaker 1: the woods. Well why do you even leave the house?

998
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:26,160
Speaker 1: And you know, it just I don't know, they just

999
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:29,320
Speaker 1: lease their mind, do you think that? But but some

1000
00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:31,080
Speaker 1: of these people is not like I could see if

1001
00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:35,880
Speaker 1: you had some gigantic buck decoy out, yeah that's not Yeah,

1002
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:37,720
Speaker 1: but I could see then you might have some guy

1003
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:40,280
Speaker 1: pull up and like the gears are turning right and

1004
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:44,520
Speaker 1: he's like this is wrong. But man, but the people

1005
00:58:44,600 --> 00:58:47,439
Speaker 1: you were showing us aren't they're ready to roll. Yeah,

1006
00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:52,760
Speaker 1: they're like actively out hunting. Yeah yeah, actually not put

1007
00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:57,440
Speaker 1: out large like um because I had heard that maybe

1008
00:58:57,960 --> 00:58:59,440
Speaker 1: you used to be able to, but now you can

1009
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:03,520
Speaker 1: no longer it out like trophy sized animals. Yeah. We

1010
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:08,080
Speaker 1: don't have anything in in our whether it's our our

1011
00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:12,000
Speaker 1: policies or standard operating procedures that prohibits us from doing

1012
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:16,520
Speaker 1: that we just don't. We don't need to, it's so rapid.

1013
00:59:16,680 --> 00:59:18,840
Speaker 1: The one my brother rolled up on was a big

1014
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:24,800
Speaker 1: mulder in eastern Montana. He rolled up on a big mulder, Yeah,

1015
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:28,080
Speaker 1: and he said it had an electronic neck. Yeah, they

1016
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:31,480
Speaker 1: you know, tail flaps. He said he was looking at

1017
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:32,920
Speaker 1: trying to figure out what was wrong with it, and

1018
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:34,800
Speaker 1: all of sudden someone's banging on his window telling to

1019
00:59:34,840 --> 00:59:38,240
Speaker 1: move along. But he said it was a nice buck. Yeah.

1020
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:39,720
Speaker 1: I had a I had a buddy a couple of

1021
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:41,800
Speaker 1: years ago that was coming out of a spot and

1022
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:44,880
Speaker 1: uh and saw a really big bull on the side

1023
00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:48,000
Speaker 1: of the road and it just stood there and stood there,

1024
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:50,560
Speaker 1: and he looked at and he's like, man, those guys

1025
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:55,320
Speaker 1: must be running decoy. And he he drives off and

1026
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:57,280
Speaker 1: he ends up texting me. He's like, man, I saw

1027
00:59:57,280 --> 00:59:59,200
Speaker 1: you guys, decoy. I'm like, what are you talking about?

1028
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:02,000
Speaker 1: He's yeah, how are you guys running that the bull

1029
01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 1: elk on such and such a road? Nope, not us, Yeah,

1030
01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:08,960
Speaker 1: it was it was alive out just standing there being stupid,

1031
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:13,760
Speaker 1: you know, ran back to and it was just like unbelievable.

1032
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:18,600
Speaker 1: So but like one of I think like I said

1033
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:21,720
Speaker 1: that there's you know, not toot my horn. But there's

1034
01:00:21,760 --> 01:00:24,360
Speaker 1: been a lot of memorable cases. But kind of earlier

1035
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:27,320
Speaker 1: on in my career worked with another officer that would

1036
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:31,360
Speaker 1: receive information that these two women had drawn moose tags

1037
01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:36,200
Speaker 1: and that their husbands were actually bull bull moose, which

1038
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:38,880
Speaker 1: is a trophy species and I know, once in a lifetime,

1039
01:00:39,440 --> 01:00:42,200
Speaker 1: and so the husbands had already killed their bull moose

1040
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:44,400
Speaker 1: once in a lifetime and so now they had in

1041
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:48,480
Speaker 1: their pockets their their wives, and so we were yeah,

1042
01:00:48,600 --> 01:00:52,760
Speaker 1: it was a grand scheme that was just absolutely foiled.

1043
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:56,320
Speaker 1: And so then so they each got ten thousand dollar fines.

1044
01:00:56,520 --> 01:00:58,480
Speaker 1: So they each one up killed a bull. Yep, And

1045
01:00:58,520 --> 01:01:00,280
Speaker 1: you guys kind of knew who was gonna be pulling

1046
01:01:00,280 --> 01:01:02,120
Speaker 1: the trigger around those ups. Oh yeah, we had all

1047
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:04,760
Speaker 1: the information we needed, and yeah, it was just a

1048
01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:09,600
Speaker 1: matter of tracking them down and interviewing them and coordinating

1049
01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:11,600
Speaker 1: that the wives were nowhere to be found. They were

1050
01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:14,840
Speaker 1: two miles on the other side of the state. Yeah. Yeah,

1051
01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:18,440
Speaker 1: ten bucks to kicking the nuts, Yeah yeah, and a

1052
01:01:18,680 --> 01:01:23,280
Speaker 1: vacation that goes along with it. Pull your privilege, oh yeah, yeah,

1053
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:26,640
Speaker 1: every every vile, every misdemeanor, you can have your license

1054
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:29,760
Speaker 1: revoked for up to a year or not more than

1055
01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:32,920
Speaker 1: three years, I guess it is. Yeah, and then you're

1056
01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:40,040
Speaker 1: losing it in forty two states. Yeah, yeah, that would stink. Yeah, man,

1057
01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:47,280
Speaker 1: And that happens and you can't Yeah, well the brass

1058
01:01:47,400 --> 01:01:52,880
Speaker 1: you know, hawais got good hunt. Yeah. Um man, So

1059
01:01:53,000 --> 01:02:00,160
Speaker 1: what what's your message to um? Like, like, what's your

1060
01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:04,280
Speaker 1: message to sports? Know, when it comes to adher, it's

1061
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:06,960
Speaker 1: to the law. Do you ever get to say to

1062
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:11,280
Speaker 1: a guy a poacher? Right? Do you ever do you

1063
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:13,000
Speaker 1: ever get to tell him like, man, here's why you

1064
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:17,160
Speaker 1: ought to be with the program. I don't get into

1065
01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:22,440
Speaker 1: the point of lecturing very much. No, you know. One,

1066
01:02:23,200 --> 01:02:26,680
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes they're just absolutely ticked off that they

1067
01:02:26,680 --> 01:02:29,520
Speaker 1: got caught. And so it's not the time nor the

1068
01:02:29,520 --> 01:02:33,720
Speaker 1: place because officers safety to have that conversation, you know,

1069
01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:38,640
Speaker 1: and so um you know, and some guys, you know,

1070
01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:41,040
Speaker 1: I had another supervisor back in the day, it's long

1071
01:02:41,080 --> 01:02:44,680
Speaker 1: since since retired that he'd be like, yeah, he's like,

1072
01:02:44,720 --> 01:02:47,240
Speaker 1: see that guy, he found religion, you know, and you

1073
01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:50,040
Speaker 1: refer to that he was a reformed poacher, you know,

1074
01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:53,720
Speaker 1: And and so yeah, and some guys they turn around

1075
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:56,040
Speaker 1: and then other guys are just like, catch me again,

1076
01:02:56,680 --> 01:02:58,760
Speaker 1: you know, and so you don't take the time to

1077
01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:02,000
Speaker 1: be like, you know, this is all the abstract, but

1078
01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:05,360
Speaker 1: you're stealing this from your fellow maybe yeah, no, we

1079
01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:08,400
Speaker 1: in some instances we do, you know, and you you

1080
01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:11,280
Speaker 1: kind of it's not so much the guilt trip. But

1081
01:03:11,440 --> 01:03:13,600
Speaker 1: you know it's not so much you know. I put

1082
01:03:13,640 --> 01:03:16,960
Speaker 1: it in terms of man, you got kids, You've got

1083
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:21,120
Speaker 1: a grandkid. You're stealing this from them. You're not hurting me,

1084
01:03:21,320 --> 01:03:24,200
Speaker 1: You're hurting them. You know, you're here in the next generation.

1085
01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:26,960
Speaker 1: This has nothing to do with me. You know, you're

1086
01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:30,440
Speaker 1: stealing from somebody else. And we have that conversation routinely,

1087
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:32,800
Speaker 1: you know. And and I think when you put it

1088
01:03:32,800 --> 01:03:36,000
Speaker 1: in those terms sometimes people see the light. They don't,

1089
01:03:36,040 --> 01:03:38,320
Speaker 1: you know, they don't put it in that broad perspective

1090
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:41,280
Speaker 1: of who's looking at it as a victimless crime. And

1091
01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:44,840
Speaker 1: that's what wild wildlife crimes are, is a victimless crime.

1092
01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:48,560
Speaker 1: You know, you look at traditional policing in the United States,

1093
01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:51,720
Speaker 1: there's always a victim, right and and you know, whether

1094
01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:55,439
Speaker 1: it's a homicide or you know, something like that, Yeah,

1095
01:03:55,480 --> 01:03:59,000
Speaker 1: there's always a there's always a victim. But in wildlife crime,

1096
01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:02,360
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, it's the it's the property of the state,

1097
01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:05,200
Speaker 1: and then you know, the residents are the state. But

1098
01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:09,000
Speaker 1: in the end, you know, if you don't know, you

1099
01:04:09,040 --> 01:04:11,040
Speaker 1: don't know, you don't know what you don't know, right,

1100
01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:13,960
Speaker 1: and so it just it ends up being a victimus crime.

1101
01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:18,040
Speaker 1: And so yeah, in the end, I mean, it comes

1102
01:04:18,040 --> 01:04:20,800
Speaker 1: down to an appreciation of wildlife and what what its

1103
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:24,000
Speaker 1: value is, you know, and and you know, are you

1104
01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:27,400
Speaker 1: willing to do it? Right? It's it's hard to understand

1105
01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:29,880
Speaker 1: why some people do it, you know, because they'll just

1106
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:31,640
Speaker 1: keep doing it and doing it and doing it. But

1107
01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:33,800
Speaker 1: like I think, like like what this guy was saying

1108
01:04:33,800 --> 01:04:36,320
Speaker 1: about just people doing it for the for the bragging rights,

1109
01:04:36,360 --> 01:04:40,240
Speaker 1: I do really think that that's at least the kind

1110
01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:42,560
Speaker 1: of poaching I find most problematic. I really think is

1111
01:04:42,600 --> 01:04:49,440
Speaker 1: people saying I want the recognition, I want the respect

1112
01:04:50,800 --> 01:04:57,880
Speaker 1: that comes with success in hunting. Um, I want to

1113
01:04:57,880 --> 01:05:02,560
Speaker 1: be able to demonstrate to my peers, right, but I

1114
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:04,360
Speaker 1: don't want to go through all that bullshit and have

1115
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:08,760
Speaker 1: all the uncertainty. I just want to get it like this, Yeah,

1116
01:05:09,320 --> 01:05:12,560
Speaker 1: you want to see from home and come home and

1117
01:05:12,640 --> 01:05:17,320
Speaker 1: be the guy that got one. Yeah, it troubles me

1118
01:05:17,400 --> 01:05:21,320
Speaker 1: more than like a dude who you know whatever shoots

1119
01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:25,000
Speaker 1: white tail Doford Freezer. As wrong as it is, it's

1120
01:05:25,040 --> 01:05:28,800
Speaker 1: just like different to me. Now. I know you, I

1121
01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:32,360
Speaker 1: know that that that like goes against everything right that

1122
01:05:32,680 --> 01:05:36,080
Speaker 1: you probably believe in, being the job you have and everything.

1123
01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:38,280
Speaker 1: But just like I like, I like you do you

1124
01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:41,760
Speaker 1: draw like you know, we have like all these relatives

1125
01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:44,320
Speaker 1: when it comes not relatives like people with agy, but

1126
01:05:44,360 --> 01:05:48,680
Speaker 1: you make like relative comparisons of of worse and worse

1127
01:05:48,720 --> 01:05:51,280
Speaker 1: and worse. You know. Then you have like the you know,

1128
01:05:51,680 --> 01:05:55,680
Speaker 1: like the fulk hero Robin Hood, right, I mean you

1129
01:05:55,680 --> 01:06:00,080
Speaker 1: know he would poach the King's game to to to

1130
01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:02,720
Speaker 1: give the meat to the poor. So it is kind

1131
01:06:02,720 --> 01:06:05,760
Speaker 1: of like ingrained in your head. There's like there's like

1132
01:06:05,840 --> 01:06:10,040
Speaker 1: an acceptable thing. Well, and that's like I was saying

1133
01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:13,400
Speaker 1: earlier with the with the the old you know where

1134
01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:15,720
Speaker 1: it's the old guy. You know, we're gonna keep doing this,

1135
01:06:16,160 --> 01:06:18,640
Speaker 1: but hey, we're not going to report violations because they

1136
01:06:18,680 --> 01:06:21,440
Speaker 1: needed the they needed the meat. You know, it's that

1137
01:06:21,920 --> 01:06:24,840
Speaker 1: to minimize the whole violation. So you're your point, Yeah,

1138
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:27,160
Speaker 1: but I get your point, Like it's not the Great

1139
01:06:27,320 --> 01:06:32,600
Speaker 1: Depression anymore. No, no, no, And in society has you know,

1140
01:06:32,720 --> 01:06:34,840
Speaker 1: we see it more and more that society has placed

1141
01:06:35,280 --> 01:06:38,320
Speaker 1: a pretty significant value on wildlife in the United States.

1142
01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:40,960
Speaker 1: I mean that is why it's held in public trust,

1143
01:06:41,360 --> 01:06:45,880
Speaker 1: right because we all value it. It's just nowadays, in

1144
01:06:45,960 --> 01:06:49,080
Speaker 1: this time, we have placed even more value on it,

1145
01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:52,640
Speaker 1: you know, you know, like it would be interesting to

1146
01:06:52,680 --> 01:06:54,880
Speaker 1: hear from you three, like I mean Remy already kind

1147
01:06:54,880 --> 01:06:57,680
Speaker 1: of pointed it out with the Utah was the Utah

1148
01:06:57,680 --> 01:07:00,600
Speaker 1: example or just that how much how much an auction

1149
01:07:00,600 --> 01:07:02,480
Speaker 1: tag would go for, you know, and how much that

1150
01:07:02,560 --> 01:07:05,160
Speaker 1: value is. But you know, I think that all of

1151
01:07:05,240 --> 01:07:09,919
Speaker 1: us would agree that, you know, wildlife any you pick,

1152
01:07:09,960 --> 01:07:14,280
Speaker 1: any species has a specific value you know, to you

1153
01:07:14,320 --> 01:07:18,600
Speaker 1: whether it's a in intrinsic or a monetary value, you know,

1154
01:07:19,080 --> 01:07:21,200
Speaker 1: it just that's how yeah, I think I always think

1155
01:07:21,200 --> 01:07:25,240
Speaker 1: about when I think about preservation wildlife and being a

1156
01:07:25,320 --> 01:07:30,440
Speaker 1: law abiding hunter and all things go with it. Um

1157
01:07:30,480 --> 01:07:34,440
Speaker 1: At a time in our nation's history, for a long time,

1158
01:07:35,080 --> 01:07:42,400
Speaker 1: we had uh wildlife kind of like we had wildlife

1159
01:07:42,440 --> 01:07:48,200
Speaker 1: despite our best efforts to eradicate it, meaning just uncontrolled

1160
01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:53,600
Speaker 1: market hunting, environmental exploitation. You know, it was like we

1161
01:07:53,600 --> 01:07:58,840
Speaker 1: were devouring the resources and we still had some. Yeah,

1162
01:07:58,840 --> 01:08:01,120
Speaker 1: and it's interesting because you know, and I think about that,

1163
01:08:01,240 --> 01:08:05,080
Speaker 1: and you know, it's part of part of conservation. Like

1164
01:08:05,120 --> 01:08:07,680
Speaker 1: I said in earlier is you know, you think about

1165
01:08:07,760 --> 01:08:11,600
Speaker 1: those times, whether it was market hunting for plumage for

1166
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:16,799
Speaker 1: women's hats or unregulated bison hunting, you know that almost

1167
01:08:16,800 --> 01:08:21,000
Speaker 1: decimated did decimate populations. What was the thing that stopped

1168
01:08:21,000 --> 01:08:24,519
Speaker 1: at all? Regulations? Right, That's what changed everything, not not

1169
01:08:24,760 --> 01:08:27,680
Speaker 1: us doing biology. Was about regulations and the fear of

1170
01:08:27,680 --> 01:08:30,719
Speaker 1: getting caught. And so yeah, it doesn't that that wasn't

1171
01:08:30,760 --> 01:08:32,920
Speaker 1: That was like the follow up point I was gonna make,

1172
01:08:32,920 --> 01:08:37,759
Speaker 1: because no, we have wildlife in this country because people

1173
01:08:37,760 --> 01:08:41,440
Speaker 1: have worked their asses off in order to have it.

1174
01:08:41,439 --> 01:08:47,040
Speaker 1: It's not like they're kind of by happen chance anymore. No,

1175
01:08:47,160 --> 01:08:49,800
Speaker 1: not at all. I was there because No, because we

1176
01:08:49,960 --> 01:08:54,320
Speaker 1: put together this elaborate system by which we could have

1177
01:08:54,479 --> 01:09:01,920
Speaker 1: civilization coexist with wildlife. What's allowed that is creating laws

1178
01:09:01,960 --> 01:09:05,040
Speaker 1: and enforcing them. Had we never got around to doing

1179
01:09:05,120 --> 01:09:11,080
Speaker 1: that in in the years basically from around to around

1180
01:09:11,160 --> 01:09:15,640
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty, if we hadn't put together the suite of

1181
01:09:15,680 --> 01:09:20,080
Speaker 1: wildlife laws we have now and not like pulling this

1182
01:09:20,200 --> 01:09:22,400
Speaker 1: out of my as, I mean, you would not have

1183
01:09:22,439 --> 01:09:25,960
Speaker 1: American wildlife. Well yeah, and you look at um the

1184
01:09:26,040 --> 01:09:28,360
Speaker 1: Lacy Act was from the nineteen thirties, right, I think

1185
01:09:28,479 --> 01:09:31,120
Speaker 1: is when or in the seventies when was Lacy Act?

1186
01:09:31,479 --> 01:09:34,439
Speaker 1: I should know this, Oh, the one that legal wildlife travel.

1187
01:09:34,920 --> 01:09:36,040
Speaker 1: I think that I don't know if that came a

1188
01:09:36,080 --> 01:09:40,679
Speaker 1: little later, but like Pittman robertson nineteen thirties ban market hunting.

1189
01:09:40,760 --> 01:09:44,160
Speaker 1: Yet that stuff all came out around that time. And

1190
01:09:44,200 --> 01:09:46,760
Speaker 1: in the ban on you know, sale of you know,

1191
01:09:46,920 --> 01:09:50,400
Speaker 1: sale of plumage, Migratory Bird Act, you know, like a

1192
01:09:50,439 --> 01:09:54,000
Speaker 1: whole suite of things started coming out somewhat earlier, because

1193
01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:56,120
Speaker 1: I think it was still the eight nineties and Wyoming

1194
01:09:56,120 --> 01:10:02,840
Speaker 1: made it um a jailable ends to kill a buffalo, right,

1195
01:10:02,880 --> 01:10:05,320
Speaker 1: and then it became illegal to sell wild game in

1196
01:10:05,360 --> 01:10:07,680
Speaker 1: New York City, and then you know, on and on

1197
01:10:08,000 --> 01:10:09,840
Speaker 1: and we created this thing and then we had this

1198
01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:14,479
Speaker 1: radical rebound um and now we take some of us

1199
01:10:14,479 --> 01:10:16,920
Speaker 1: and and that's the I think that's a point we

1200
01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:21,240
Speaker 1: need to clarify though, is that, um, most hunters and

1201
01:10:21,320 --> 01:10:27,960
Speaker 1: anglers The vast majority are law abiding and and very

1202
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:32,960
Speaker 1: committed conservationists. It's just that very few that that ruined it.

1203
01:10:33,240 --> 01:10:34,760
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, And I know a lot of people will

1204
01:10:34,760 --> 01:10:37,080
Speaker 1: say like, oh, we shouldn't be having this conversation because

1205
01:10:37,560 --> 01:10:40,160
Speaker 1: you're you know, you're making it look like all the

1206
01:10:40,200 --> 01:10:42,439
Speaker 1: stuff goes on, but we're talking about real stuff that

1207
01:10:42,439 --> 01:10:45,320
Speaker 1: goes on. But I think that, like a poacher should

1208
01:10:45,320 --> 01:10:50,360
Speaker 1: know the reason he even has something to poach, it's

1209
01:10:50,400 --> 01:10:54,080
Speaker 1: because of wildlife laws. Yeah, exactly, that like wildlife laws

1210
01:10:54,080 --> 01:10:57,479
Speaker 1: are keeping you from the resource. Wildlife laws created the

1211
01:10:57,479 --> 01:11:01,920
Speaker 1: resource or allowed the resource to sist. Yeah, and and

1212
01:11:01,960 --> 01:11:06,040
Speaker 1: they absolutely take it for granted. Yeah. I think it's

1213
01:11:06,080 --> 01:11:08,439
Speaker 1: like I think it might be motivated in some part

1214
01:11:08,479 --> 01:11:13,800
Speaker 1: by lack of historic perspective. Yeah, I think historic perspective

1215
01:11:13,800 --> 01:11:17,880
Speaker 1: and in appreciation, you know, like you said it, we

1216
01:11:18,040 --> 01:11:23,040
Speaker 1: have these wildlife numbers now because of our forefathers, UM

1217
01:11:24,120 --> 01:11:27,040
Speaker 1: decided that it was important that we're gonna spell out

1218
01:11:27,080 --> 01:11:29,439
Speaker 1: stuff you can do, stuff you can't do. Yeah. Yeah,

1219
01:11:29,479 --> 01:11:31,599
Speaker 1: and so now, yeah, they just take it for granted

1220
01:11:31,640 --> 01:11:34,200
Speaker 1: and be like, oh, you know, they're shoot, there's another

1221
01:11:34,200 --> 01:11:39,120
Speaker 1: white tailed buck out there somewhere, you know, what's one, Rebby,

1222
01:11:39,200 --> 01:11:43,040
Speaker 1: what's your concluding thoughts. I just I'm gonna go a

1223
01:11:43,080 --> 01:11:50,479
Speaker 1: little lower nine hundred Lacy Act and some of the laws.

1224
01:11:50,520 --> 01:11:54,160
Speaker 1: It looks like nineteen oh seven, we're starting to being forced.

1225
01:11:54,640 --> 01:11:58,360
Speaker 1: That's I was just glancing, but no, but I think

1226
01:11:58,360 --> 01:12:04,240
Speaker 1: that like the whole Pittman Roberts that they was seven. Yeah,

1227
01:12:04,320 --> 01:12:09,720
Speaker 1: it was the Federal Restoration and Wildlife Act, and that

1228
01:12:09,800 --> 01:12:14,040
Speaker 1: was when they put exercise taxes on firearms and ammunition

1229
01:12:14,880 --> 01:12:19,320
Speaker 1: to support to support wildlife conservation. That was pr Pittman Roberts.

1230
01:12:19,600 --> 01:12:25,040
Speaker 1: And then ye, so you're gonna go more low bro,

1231
01:12:25,240 --> 01:12:27,160
Speaker 1: I want to know what the dumbest thing you've ever

1232
01:12:27,200 --> 01:12:30,680
Speaker 1: seen is? Yeah, I mean you concluding thought could be

1233
01:12:30,720 --> 01:12:33,800
Speaker 1: a question, yeah, because I mean I think that's just

1234
01:12:34,400 --> 01:12:36,360
Speaker 1: there's got to be some stuff that you've seen. It's like,

1235
01:12:36,439 --> 01:12:40,439
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, this is I think that the decoy

1236
01:12:40,560 --> 01:12:42,840
Speaker 1: one with the Galleradin in the back of the truck.

1237
01:12:42,880 --> 01:12:45,920
Speaker 1: I mean, I've seen lots of stupid stuff, but that one.

1238
01:12:46,320 --> 01:12:50,599
Speaker 1: So to put that one in perspective, you know, like

1239
01:12:50,720 --> 01:12:55,240
Speaker 1: the program you know says they were actually targeted that

1240
01:12:55,240 --> 01:12:58,439
Speaker 1: that couple and they had drove by two weeks before

1241
01:12:58,479 --> 01:13:00,839
Speaker 1: that spot, and we had contact him your old compliance

1242
01:13:00,920 --> 01:13:03,200
Speaker 1: check and we're like, man, there's gonna be a tag

1243
01:13:03,200 --> 01:13:06,559
Speaker 1: transfer here. The guy is gonna shoot her. ELK. Never

1244
01:13:06,600 --> 01:13:08,880
Speaker 1: would I have imagined that she was gonna be riding

1245
01:13:08,920 --> 01:13:10,200
Speaker 1: into the bed of the truck. But they had already

1246
01:13:10,280 --> 01:13:13,519
Speaker 1: drove by the decoy once and we're like, man, they

1247
01:13:13,560 --> 01:13:17,280
Speaker 1: didn't see it. Yeah, they know, they didn't see this

1248
01:13:17,400 --> 01:13:19,760
Speaker 1: standing out in the stubble field. It's like, oh darn it.

1249
01:13:20,360 --> 01:13:23,120
Speaker 1: And then then they ended up turning around and I

1250
01:13:23,120 --> 01:13:25,160
Speaker 1: can see them, and then they came back. I mean,

1251
01:13:25,560 --> 01:13:28,920
Speaker 1: that in itself is unbelievable. They were already contacted. I

1252
01:13:28,920 --> 01:13:32,080
Speaker 1: mean within that hundred yards stretch of that roadway. They

1253
01:13:32,080 --> 01:13:35,880
Speaker 1: were contracted by myself in another uniform officer, just ten

1254
01:13:35,960 --> 01:13:39,720
Speaker 1: days before that. And so selling them what just a

1255
01:13:39,800 --> 01:13:42,639
Speaker 1: regular compliance check. And then when we when we got done,

1256
01:13:42,680 --> 01:13:45,920
Speaker 1: you know, checking licenses and tags and um, we're like, hey,

1257
01:13:45,960 --> 01:13:48,680
Speaker 1: you got permission here? Oh yeah, yeah, and it's just

1258
01:13:48,720 --> 01:13:51,559
Speaker 1: like it doesn't sound like you do. It doesn't sound

1259
01:13:51,560 --> 01:13:54,680
Speaker 1: like you know who the landowner is and uh, and

1260
01:13:54,720 --> 01:13:57,080
Speaker 1: so yeah, it's a regular compliance check. And as we're

1261
01:13:57,080 --> 01:13:59,840
Speaker 1: walking back to the patrol vehicle. You know, the officer

1262
01:13:59,880 --> 01:14:02,960
Speaker 1: on with and we're both like, he's gonna shoot her out,

1263
01:14:03,120 --> 01:14:05,439
Speaker 1: there's no question about it. Lo And behold, no, not

1264
01:14:05,560 --> 01:14:07,840
Speaker 1: at all. She's gonna shoot it from the bed of

1265
01:14:07,840 --> 01:14:13,080
Speaker 1: the pickup laying on the When you guys put the decoy,

1266
01:14:13,360 --> 01:14:15,800
Speaker 1: you figured the dude would show up and shoot at it. Yeah, yeah,

1267
01:14:15,880 --> 01:14:19,040
Speaker 1: with her tag turned out, he was just a great caller.

1268
01:14:22,800 --> 01:14:26,920
Speaker 1: That's funny. What's your gluten dog, Yonnie. It's a concluding

1269
01:14:27,439 --> 01:14:32,800
Speaker 1: follow up question to um. I've always minished about, like

1270
01:14:32,880 --> 01:14:35,960
Speaker 1: the pursuit of game in a vehicle, right, we know

1271
01:14:36,040 --> 01:14:40,599
Speaker 1: you can't shoot from motorized vehicle and you can't Idaho.

1272
01:14:42,040 --> 01:14:46,479
Speaker 1: Well yeah, yeah's with the exception of waterfowl. There's finally

1273
01:14:46,520 --> 01:14:48,599
Speaker 1: just a few states. But then you can't shoot waterfall

1274
01:14:48,680 --> 01:14:52,519
Speaker 1: unless the motors cut in the in all forward motions ceased. Yeah,

1275
01:14:52,560 --> 01:14:55,519
Speaker 1: so we'll speak just for Idaho. But I'm guessing you

1276
01:14:55,560 --> 01:15:00,280
Speaker 1: can't harass wildlife from a vehicle, so you can't like

1277
01:15:00,360 --> 01:15:05,120
Speaker 1: corral them or heard over, drive them. But these days

1278
01:15:05,120 --> 01:15:08,040
Speaker 1: a lot of times you get a situation where so

1279
01:15:08,080 --> 01:15:11,400
Speaker 1: how do they spell out? Like motorized used to like

1280
01:15:11,479 --> 01:15:13,479
Speaker 1: pursue an animal. Is that so it would be as

1281
01:15:13,479 --> 01:15:17,040
Speaker 1: an aid to hunting. Um, they're specific um hunt with

1282
01:15:17,080 --> 01:15:20,240
Speaker 1: a motorized vehicle. So and we we kind of touched

1283
01:15:20,280 --> 01:15:24,080
Speaker 1: on her earlier. That definition of hunt is very broad, chase, pursue,

1284
01:15:24,360 --> 01:15:27,760
Speaker 1: harass um, it's very broad, and so it's easy to

1285
01:15:27,800 --> 01:15:31,640
Speaker 1: fill in what they're doing. See, that's I've always I

1286
01:15:31,680 --> 01:15:34,120
Speaker 1: think maybe you're kind of thinking of like some Arizona

1287
01:15:34,280 --> 01:15:37,960
Speaker 1: regulations as well, maybe because I think in Arizona, if

1288
01:15:38,080 --> 01:15:40,360
Speaker 1: I spot, say I'm sitting in my truck with a

1289
01:15:40,400 --> 01:15:43,960
Speaker 1: window mountain, I spot an elk, I have to lead.

1290
01:15:44,280 --> 01:15:48,040
Speaker 1: I can't actually go after that elk because I would

1291
01:15:48,080 --> 01:15:51,880
Speaker 1: be from a motorized vehicle. No, you couldn't know you

1292
01:15:52,160 --> 01:15:55,240
Speaker 1: technically you couldn't drive over there and then go after it.

1293
01:15:55,520 --> 01:15:57,080
Speaker 1: That's kind of my question is where do you do

1294
01:15:59,520 --> 01:16:01,800
Speaker 1: glass from a truck? Well, but let's just say that

1295
01:16:01,920 --> 01:16:11,559
Speaker 1: you're away, and then you drive over, you get out,

1296
01:16:11,720 --> 01:16:14,439
Speaker 1: you get out again, and then you hike up there. Yeah,

1297
01:16:14,479 --> 01:16:17,040
Speaker 1: it's a very fine line. I mean in in North

1298
01:16:17,040 --> 01:16:19,519
Speaker 1: Idaho where we all work, I mean, it's plain as day,

1299
01:16:19,560 --> 01:16:22,040
Speaker 1: they're just you know, for a lack of any better

1300
01:16:22,200 --> 01:16:25,880
Speaker 1: term because it's not defined in in the regulations road

1301
01:16:25,960 --> 01:16:28,960
Speaker 1: hunting that term in itself, I mean, we all know

1302
01:16:29,000 --> 01:16:32,599
Speaker 1: what it looks like, but it's uh. I mean that

1303
01:16:32,600 --> 01:16:34,720
Speaker 1: would be that hunt with a motorized vehicle. Now what

1304
01:16:34,760 --> 01:16:38,639
Speaker 1: Remy's talking about spotting elk like two d two miles

1305
01:16:38,680 --> 01:16:41,840
Speaker 1: away and then driving a mile and then hike in

1306
01:16:41,880 --> 01:16:44,160
Speaker 1: the other mile up to him. I mean that would

1307
01:16:44,200 --> 01:16:48,760
Speaker 1: certainly be within within bounds. So in in Idaho, though,

1308
01:16:48,840 --> 01:16:52,200
Speaker 1: say you you're driving down for a service road, you

1309
01:16:52,240 --> 01:16:54,720
Speaker 1: look over, you see a deer, so get out and

1310
01:16:54,800 --> 01:16:58,000
Speaker 1: you are I don't know what your rule is for

1311
01:16:58,080 --> 01:17:00,479
Speaker 1: shooting off a road or whatever, kids you from publicly

1312
01:17:00,479 --> 01:17:03,120
Speaker 1: maintained highway. So if you're on a for a service

1313
01:17:03,200 --> 01:17:05,439
Speaker 1: road and you're actually off the road, and then you know,

1314
01:17:05,680 --> 01:17:09,280
Speaker 1: if you're not violating any is that so? So the

1315
01:17:09,320 --> 01:17:13,280
Speaker 1: way that we the question that we usually ask, are

1316
01:17:13,320 --> 01:17:15,720
Speaker 1: you looking for something to hunt? Are you looking for

1317
01:17:15,760 --> 01:17:20,880
Speaker 1: a place to hunt? Okay, you're right, right, So so

1318
01:17:21,000 --> 01:17:23,439
Speaker 1: for that road hunter, you know, are you are you

1319
01:17:23,479 --> 01:17:25,880
Speaker 1: looking for a place to hunt? Are you looking for

1320
01:17:25,920 --> 01:17:28,960
Speaker 1: something to hunt? Right? It makes sense, right if you're

1321
01:17:29,000 --> 01:17:30,920
Speaker 1: just driving around all day looking for deer out of

1322
01:17:30,920 --> 01:17:33,720
Speaker 1: the truck. We've got a problem if you're like incidentally

1323
01:17:33,840 --> 01:17:36,160
Speaker 1: driving and all of a sudden, you know, you're like,

1324
01:17:36,160 --> 01:17:38,800
Speaker 1: ohly crap, slam on the brakes, get off the road,

1325
01:17:38,920 --> 01:17:41,640
Speaker 1: make sure you're not on posted property. Yeah, it's a

1326
01:17:41,680 --> 01:17:46,960
Speaker 1: different story. Yeah. Now my my concluding thought, and I

1327
01:17:46,960 --> 01:17:50,160
Speaker 1: don't even want you to respond to it. I think

1328
01:17:50,200 --> 01:17:52,719
Speaker 1: more states need to take a better look at radio hunting.

1329
01:17:54,040 --> 01:17:59,160
Speaker 1: Radio hunting, Yeah, like using electronic communications. Some states are

1330
01:17:59,200 --> 01:18:04,320
Speaker 1: out in front of it, Alaska, Montana. It's legal in

1331
01:18:04,360 --> 01:18:08,599
Speaker 1: Idaho and Nevada, not Montana. What I'm saying, and that's

1332
01:18:08,720 --> 01:18:13,040
Speaker 1: that's that, you know, regulations are just hard to keep

1333
01:18:13,120 --> 01:18:16,320
Speaker 1: up with technologies. Particularly it's gonna get It's like it's

1334
01:18:16,360 --> 01:18:19,880
Speaker 1: gonna get worse and worse. Yeah, and yeah, absolutely, I

1335
01:18:19,920 --> 01:18:23,080
Speaker 1: definitely agree with it. It's quote I quotedly Elo Leopold earlier.

1336
01:18:23,080 --> 01:18:27,680
Speaker 1: Elo Leopold said, we're always improving the pump, but not

1337
01:18:27,760 --> 01:18:32,760
Speaker 1: the well. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And you know, ethics is

1338
01:18:32,800 --> 01:18:37,160
Speaker 1: constantly evolving. Hunter, ethics is constantly evolving, you know. But

1339
01:18:37,160 --> 01:18:39,360
Speaker 1: but in this case, but that's an interesting point. But

1340
01:18:39,360 --> 01:18:40,920
Speaker 1: in this case it's different than that, because this thing

1341
01:18:40,920 --> 01:18:44,160
Speaker 1: is we're talking about emerging technology, not traditional use, but

1342
01:18:44,280 --> 01:18:47,599
Speaker 1: emerging tech. Everyone clearly drones. People have no problem getting

1343
01:18:47,600 --> 01:18:49,439
Speaker 1: out ahead of the drone issue. Yeah, and that was

1344
01:18:49,520 --> 01:18:52,760
Speaker 1: quick to do, okay, So it's like that, you know

1345
01:18:52,800 --> 01:18:55,519
Speaker 1: why it was quick and easy because there wasn't there

1346
01:18:55,600 --> 01:19:02,000
Speaker 1: wasn't any emerging culture that we're of drone hunters. But

1347
01:19:02,840 --> 01:19:04,680
Speaker 1: I think that they're kind of missing the boat and

1348
01:19:04,800 --> 01:19:07,280
Speaker 1: getting out ahead of electronic communications. I think that's just

1349
01:19:07,280 --> 01:19:11,519
Speaker 1: gonna get worse. Yeah, that's all go ahead and stay well.

1350
01:19:11,680 --> 01:19:16,840
Speaker 1: So so on somebody's somebody's reading list on the meat

1351
01:19:16,880 --> 01:19:20,720
Speaker 1: each site. Did somebody have Arctic dreams? Yeah? Me? I

1352
01:19:20,760 --> 01:19:24,920
Speaker 1: love that. Yeah. So in there, Lopez talks about how

1353
01:19:24,920 --> 01:19:30,920
Speaker 1: anthropologists note the hunting of um buffalo by by cliff

1354
01:19:31,000 --> 01:19:35,479
Speaker 1: jumps and then also caribou by U river crossings and

1355
01:19:35,520 --> 01:19:39,000
Speaker 1: then but at that time that was an ethical practice,

1356
01:19:39,360 --> 01:19:41,639
Speaker 1: you know, and so you know, which is interesting because

1357
01:19:41,680 --> 01:19:44,160
Speaker 1: today we would cringe if somebody did something like that,

1358
01:19:44,400 --> 01:19:47,719
Speaker 1: because there are still there are still units in Alaska

1359
01:19:48,040 --> 01:19:51,120
Speaker 1: where you can kill caribou in the water out of

1360
01:19:51,160 --> 01:19:55,559
Speaker 1: a boat with the twenty two traditional use traditional use.

1361
01:19:56,000 --> 01:19:58,559
Speaker 1: I'm saying that was an area where that's like that's

1362
01:19:58,600 --> 01:20:02,160
Speaker 1: hot traditional use. It's how people have utilized that resource

1363
01:20:02,960 --> 01:20:05,120
Speaker 1: for a long time. And you can still sit at

1364
01:20:05,200 --> 01:20:07,240
Speaker 1: river crossings there and kill sithing Carrey with the twin

1365
01:20:07,280 --> 01:20:11,519
Speaker 1: two mm hm. But it's not I mean, you can't

1366
01:20:11,520 --> 01:20:15,799
Speaker 1: do it, you know, if you're in that unit anyone,

1367
01:20:15,840 --> 01:20:17,920
Speaker 1: you know, I think you have to have a substance instigent.

1368
01:20:18,360 --> 01:20:22,840
Speaker 1: It's a subsistence only. I don't know if I but

1369
01:20:23,240 --> 01:20:26,920
Speaker 1: like the law attends to like favorite traditional us just

1370
01:20:26,960 --> 01:20:29,400
Speaker 1: like running deer with dogs in the South, Like you

1371
01:20:29,439 --> 01:20:31,639
Speaker 1: could run deer with the dogs in the South, Yeah,

1372
01:20:31,800 --> 01:20:35,000
Speaker 1: they hang in quarter you if you ran deer with

1373
01:20:35,080 --> 01:20:39,040
Speaker 1: dogs in Michigan. Yeah, yeah, in Michigan, everyone looks at

1374
01:20:39,160 --> 01:20:41,639
Speaker 1: if they see a dog chasing deers, your civic duty

1375
01:20:41,680 --> 01:20:44,640
Speaker 1: to kill the dog, yeah, which is always a And

1376
01:20:44,680 --> 01:20:46,920
Speaker 1: it comes back to the situational ethics. Like I said,

1377
01:20:46,960 --> 01:20:49,840
Speaker 1: you know, it's like it's like, you know, people kind

1378
01:20:49,840 --> 01:20:51,800
Speaker 1: of get up in arms about you know, whether it's

1379
01:20:52,040 --> 01:20:55,400
Speaker 1: um chasing bears or lions with hounds. But then you

1380
01:20:55,320 --> 01:20:59,080
Speaker 1: you look at like a guy hunting birds upland it's

1381
01:20:59,120 --> 01:21:00,880
Speaker 1: like man, you got that a quail and that big

1382
01:21:00,920 --> 01:21:04,679
Speaker 1: dog chasing that thing where's the balance and the way.

1383
01:21:04,720 --> 01:21:06,960
Speaker 1: But the way I look at it as is that

1384
01:21:07,080 --> 01:21:14,800
Speaker 1: people have been running bears and lions with hounds for

1385
01:21:14,840 --> 01:21:18,519
Speaker 1: a hundred years. A hundred years Boon hunted bears of dogs.

1386
01:21:18,640 --> 01:21:20,799
Speaker 1: That's how Boon did all this bear hunting was with hounds.

1387
01:21:21,120 --> 01:21:25,760
Speaker 1: So it's like traditional use practice. Some emerging technologies come

1388
01:21:25,800 --> 01:21:28,559
Speaker 1: in and you look at like like laser range finders

1389
01:21:28,640 --> 01:21:31,280
Speaker 1: really changed the game of hunting. Now you could look

1390
01:21:31,280 --> 01:21:33,880
Speaker 1: and say, oh, yeah, they allow people to take real

1391
01:21:33,920 --> 01:21:35,840
Speaker 1: long shots. And I'm also saying okay, but they could

1392
01:21:35,840 --> 01:21:39,880
Speaker 1: also dissuade you from taking shots you have no business taking,

1393
01:21:39,920 --> 01:21:44,480
Speaker 1: because it tells you more information, like it's not an automatic.

1394
01:21:45,200 --> 01:21:47,519
Speaker 1: It's like it could be helpful in other ways too.

1395
01:21:47,520 --> 01:21:50,280
Speaker 1: Besides just like like like as Leopold said, it does

1396
01:21:50,320 --> 01:21:54,920
Speaker 1: more than just improve the pump, right. Um. But I

1397
01:21:54,960 --> 01:21:58,800
Speaker 1: think in some ways, some stuff like two way communications,

1398
01:21:58,800 --> 01:22:00,600
Speaker 1: and I'm not outlanded to bring this stuff because a

1399
01:22:00,640 --> 01:22:04,439
Speaker 1: lot of states have and like these aren't like lefty

1400
01:22:04,760 --> 01:22:08,160
Speaker 1: states Montan and Alaska, I mean like conservative states with

1401
01:22:08,320 --> 01:22:11,360
Speaker 1: strong hunting cultures have gotten out and said two way

1402
01:22:11,360 --> 01:22:15,240
Speaker 1: communications is not that's not something working. That's not a well,

1403
01:22:15,400 --> 01:22:18,760
Speaker 1: that's not a pump improvement we're looking at, right. Yeah, yeah,

1404
01:22:21,040 --> 01:22:23,000
Speaker 1: I think that's just gonna be I think it's getting

1405
01:22:23,000 --> 01:22:25,120
Speaker 1: out of control and it's gonna get worse. What do

1406
01:22:25,160 --> 01:22:27,760
Speaker 1: you think about? Um, I've just kind of noticed this

1407
01:22:27,840 --> 01:22:31,160
Speaker 1: over recent years is something that I could see it

1408
01:22:31,360 --> 01:22:35,680
Speaker 1: probably never but Google Earth Maps, so you can be

1409
01:22:35,720 --> 01:22:39,360
Speaker 1: walking around now on your phone and see exactly what's

1410
01:22:39,400 --> 01:22:43,120
Speaker 1: in front of you. You no longer have to know

1411
01:22:43,280 --> 01:22:46,559
Speaker 1: the area as well as the person ten years ago

1412
01:22:46,960 --> 01:22:49,599
Speaker 1: that had to read a topo map and actually hike around.

1413
01:22:50,160 --> 01:22:53,920
Speaker 1: But yeah, okay, so but then you can also say,

1414
01:22:53,960 --> 01:22:56,080
Speaker 1: but then they had maps, and prior to that they

1415
01:22:56,080 --> 01:22:59,360
Speaker 1: didn't have paper maps. Right, yeah, but what's the so

1416
01:22:59,479 --> 01:23:01,920
Speaker 1: like anything you look at is is it giving a

1417
01:23:01,960 --> 01:23:04,640
Speaker 1: disadvantage to the animals? I don't know. I think if

1418
01:23:04,640 --> 01:23:06,880
Speaker 1: you had some way that was giving you real time

1419
01:23:06,960 --> 01:23:09,720
Speaker 1: imagery of where animals were, I think that's something they

1420
01:23:09,720 --> 01:23:12,280
Speaker 1: would take a pretty serious look at. Yeah, but I

1421
01:23:12,320 --> 01:23:15,880
Speaker 1: don't imagine. I'm just like, from a pragmatic standpoint, I

1422
01:23:15,920 --> 01:23:18,280
Speaker 1: don't imagine that fishing game agencies they are going to

1423
01:23:18,439 --> 01:23:24,320
Speaker 1: start trying to control what mapping technologies you use. See now,

1424
01:23:24,360 --> 01:23:27,479
Speaker 1: here in Montana, it's illegal to use trail cameras after

1425
01:23:27,520 --> 01:23:31,599
Speaker 1: season starts, right, Well, yeah, but while there's an open season.

1426
01:23:33,040 --> 01:23:36,519
Speaker 1: But that's pretty much the entire year, because I mean

1427
01:23:36,560 --> 01:23:40,120
Speaker 1: there's there's bird seasons, there's there's always some there's that

1428
01:23:42,040 --> 01:23:44,680
Speaker 1: doesn't break my heart. No, it doesn't mind either. I

1429
01:23:44,680 --> 01:23:48,080
Speaker 1: mean I actually think that like in Nevada you can

1430
01:23:48,160 --> 01:23:51,519
Speaker 1: use trail cameras on antelope. Well, the guy that used

1431
01:23:51,560 --> 01:23:54,120
Speaker 1: to go out and shoot a poping young antelope had

1432
01:23:54,160 --> 01:23:56,200
Speaker 1: to work his ass off for it. You had to

1433
01:23:56,200 --> 01:23:58,880
Speaker 1: go out there and find the antelope, to spend days

1434
01:23:58,880 --> 01:24:01,720
Speaker 1: in the unit, figure out where that analog watered. Now

1435
01:24:01,800 --> 01:24:03,519
Speaker 1: you can just go out and if you've got enough money,

1436
01:24:03,520 --> 01:24:05,960
Speaker 1: you could set out a hundred trail cram cameras on

1437
01:24:06,000 --> 01:24:09,639
Speaker 1: a hundred water holes and hunt one day. Not that

1438
01:24:09,640 --> 01:24:11,439
Speaker 1: that doesn't take work, just that and the other thing.

1439
01:24:11,479 --> 01:24:14,960
Speaker 1: But your knowledge is not from hunting, it's from technology.

1440
01:24:15,200 --> 01:24:17,200
Speaker 1: And but when I look at these rules, I also

1441
01:24:17,200 --> 01:24:20,280
Speaker 1: look at what sort of state we're talking about. Montana

1442
01:24:21,040 --> 01:24:24,680
Speaker 1: is a is a very hunting friendly state. They just

1443
01:24:24,800 --> 01:24:27,080
Speaker 1: you know that that initiative just came up where they're

1444
01:24:27,080 --> 01:24:30,240
Speaker 1: trying to ban trapping on public land got shot down

1445
01:24:30,240 --> 01:24:36,080
Speaker 1: by an overwhelming majority. So I'm like, when when Montana

1446
01:24:36,120 --> 01:24:39,439
Speaker 1: do something like, okay, no trail camps during season, I'm like, Okay,

1447
01:24:39,479 --> 01:24:42,479
Speaker 1: that's coming from a hunting friendly position. That's not coming

1448
01:24:42,520 --> 01:24:45,599
Speaker 1: from a position of just trying to like limit people's

1449
01:24:45,640 --> 01:24:49,919
Speaker 1: activity in order to curb or curtail hunting. The trapping

1450
01:24:49,960 --> 01:24:52,639
Speaker 1: band in Montana that got shot down, I'm like, that

1451
01:24:52,760 --> 01:24:55,880
Speaker 1: wasn't coming from a hunting friendly position. That was just

1452
01:24:55,920 --> 01:24:57,840
Speaker 1: coming from the position of people trying to whittle away

1453
01:24:57,840 --> 01:25:00,880
Speaker 1: at your rights. So it's like you're weighing this stuff

1454
01:25:00,880 --> 01:25:04,400
Speaker 1: out all the time in your mind. What's your concluding thought?

1455
01:25:05,800 --> 01:25:08,799
Speaker 1: I think, you know, sportsman, I just need to get involved,

1456
01:25:09,200 --> 01:25:12,200
Speaker 1: support your local game warden. You know, bring the muffins

1457
01:25:12,280 --> 01:25:16,640
Speaker 1: and coffee, you know, the middle this season, maybe a

1458
01:25:16,640 --> 01:25:20,840
Speaker 1: fresh baked pie. Would you say on average that uh

1459
01:25:21,120 --> 01:25:28,040
Speaker 1: CEOs are regarded or um uh you know, just like

1460
01:25:28,200 --> 01:25:30,960
Speaker 1: yeah regarded. Do you get the respect you need? Just

1461
01:25:31,120 --> 01:25:34,479
Speaker 1: like on average, if it's one out of two times

1462
01:25:35,360 --> 01:25:39,000
Speaker 1: you like received in a positive manner or in a

1463
01:25:39,080 --> 01:25:43,640
Speaker 1: negative manner? Positive, absolutely positive? Oh yeah yeah. People like

1464
01:25:43,680 --> 01:25:46,439
Speaker 1: to see out there. Yeah, And in that public opinion, yeah,

1465
01:25:46,479 --> 01:25:49,120
Speaker 1: they say in that public opinion survey we did, they

1466
01:25:49,120 --> 01:25:52,080
Speaker 1: say they don't see us enough, which you got eleven

1467
01:25:52,240 --> 01:25:55,360
Speaker 1: square miles. It's hard to do. But is that just

1468
01:25:55,400 --> 01:25:57,360
Speaker 1: the funding thing? If you guys had more funding, you'd

1469
01:25:57,360 --> 01:26:00,479
Speaker 1: have more CEOs. I have no idea. I have no idea,

1470
01:26:00,600 --> 01:26:03,719
Speaker 1: but it's just a you know, people generally enjoy seeing

1471
01:26:03,720 --> 01:26:06,040
Speaker 1: the game warden. They like to know that you're out

1472
01:26:06,040 --> 01:26:10,120
Speaker 1: there and keeping the playing field fair. But it's you know,

1473
01:26:10,160 --> 01:26:12,559
Speaker 1: it's not just the game warden doing that. You know,

1474
01:26:13,080 --> 01:26:15,679
Speaker 1: we need the help of of sportsman, you know, report

1475
01:26:15,680 --> 01:26:19,840
Speaker 1: and violations when you see them. Yeah, I I think,

1476
01:26:21,439 --> 01:26:23,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I think there's a lot of game wardens

1477
01:26:23,200 --> 01:26:25,400
Speaker 1: that are hunters, but it seems like now there's also

1478
01:26:25,880 --> 01:26:28,479
Speaker 1: I've been seeing a lot more that are not hunters.

1479
01:26:28,800 --> 01:26:31,479
Speaker 1: They're just in the law enforcement aspect. But I almost

1480
01:26:31,479 --> 01:26:34,680
Speaker 1: think it is imperative that a game warden be a

1481
01:26:34,720 --> 01:26:39,120
Speaker 1: hunter himself because they understand the value of the wildlife,

1482
01:26:39,160 --> 01:26:42,759
Speaker 1: not as a law but as an animal that you value.

1483
01:26:42,800 --> 01:26:46,240
Speaker 1: You hunt, you eat, And to me, I just don't

1484
01:26:46,240 --> 01:26:50,680
Speaker 1: see how somebody that doesn't even hunt, can you know,

1485
01:26:50,840 --> 01:26:53,960
Speaker 1: like make that work. Yeah, And we in Idaho, we

1486
01:26:54,000 --> 01:26:58,080
Speaker 1: are still very stuck to you having some sort of

1487
01:26:58,280 --> 01:27:01,680
Speaker 1: hunting and fishing background. Now, I don't think we we

1488
01:27:01,800 --> 01:27:04,880
Speaker 1: check fact check like okay, so, so how many deer

1489
01:27:04,920 --> 01:27:06,920
Speaker 1: have you harvest over your lifetime? You know, how many

1490
01:27:07,000 --> 01:27:10,160
Speaker 1: days you've been out in the field. Um. But you

1491
01:27:10,200 --> 01:27:11,920
Speaker 1: know that's one of the things I impress on those

1492
01:27:11,960 --> 01:27:16,400
Speaker 1: new officers is hey, buzzloader hunt, No, well you better start.

1493
01:27:16,920 --> 01:27:19,120
Speaker 1: You know, there's no better way to talk to talk

1494
01:27:19,120 --> 01:27:22,040
Speaker 1: than to be able to do it yourself. You know. Um,

1495
01:27:22,080 --> 01:27:24,719
Speaker 1: it's like hound hunting, you know, it's you know, has

1496
01:27:25,320 --> 01:27:29,200
Speaker 1: you've been out behind hounds? Oh? No, you know that's

1497
01:27:29,200 --> 01:27:31,960
Speaker 1: what the new guy, new guy would say, and our

1498
01:27:32,040 --> 01:27:34,120
Speaker 1: new gal and well you need to go find one

1499
01:27:34,120 --> 01:27:36,120
Speaker 1: of your local houndsman and buddy up to him and

1500
01:27:36,439 --> 01:27:38,800
Speaker 1: get a better understanding of what's going on here, so

1501
01:27:38,880 --> 01:27:42,120
Speaker 1: you know what you're looking at when you see it. Yeah. Yeah,

1502
01:27:42,280 --> 01:27:45,200
Speaker 1: So I agree with you, Ramy. It's it's imperative to

1503
01:27:45,360 --> 01:27:48,160
Speaker 1: be a good game warden and an effective game warden

1504
01:27:48,439 --> 01:27:52,599
Speaker 1: to totally understand and have that skill set. You know,

1505
01:27:53,360 --> 01:27:57,160
Speaker 1: it just helps you. You know, it's a in a way,

1506
01:27:57,160 --> 01:27:59,599
Speaker 1: as a game warden, your hunter yourself, you know, you're

1507
01:27:59,600 --> 01:28:03,080
Speaker 1: just a poacher, you know what I mean. And so

1508
01:28:03,520 --> 01:28:05,760
Speaker 1: you gotta understand that you gotta understand where the game

1509
01:28:05,880 --> 01:28:08,120
Speaker 1: is and when to find the game, you know. And

1510
01:28:08,200 --> 01:28:11,960
Speaker 1: so just driving her around patrol and happened. Stands running

1511
01:28:12,000 --> 01:28:18,479
Speaker 1: into things just doesn't work. Yeah, alright, man. We talked

1512
01:28:18,479 --> 01:28:20,480
Speaker 1: to a game where in the other day in Colorado,

1513
01:28:20,600 --> 01:28:22,000
Speaker 1: and I said, hey, you guy, do you think cool

1514
01:28:22,040 --> 01:28:25,960
Speaker 1: you confiscated And he said, um, it's too hot, and Sony,

1515
01:28:26,000 --> 01:28:29,320
Speaker 1: no one's getting anything, so I can't confiscate anything. So

1516
01:28:29,400 --> 01:28:32,960
Speaker 1: he knew, he knew the situation. He's looking at it

1517
01:28:33,000 --> 01:28:35,400
Speaker 1: with the hunter's perspective. Yeah, oh yeah, and that's how

1518
01:28:35,439 --> 01:28:38,519
Speaker 1: what you have to do. Yeah, all right, well thanks

1519
01:28:38,520 --> 01:28:41,920
Speaker 1: for joining us many thank you. If we can keep

1520
01:28:41,960 --> 01:28:45,920
Speaker 1: one guy from getting the ticket for something stupid that

1521
01:28:46,040 --> 01:28:47,960
Speaker 1: he should not have done and it decides not to

1522
01:28:48,000 --> 01:28:50,000
Speaker 1: do it because he listened to this, this will have

1523
01:28:50,080 --> 01:28:53,679
Speaker 1: been a successful program. It will all right. Thank you,