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Speaker 1: Welcome to the drive.

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Speaker 2: I'm Dale Lolli he is Matt Williamson and Matt welcome

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Speaker 2: back from your little vacation. And while you were off, well,

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Speaker 2: some things happen around town, but nothing too crazy with

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Speaker 2: the Steelers. They did sign Nick Kwaikowski the linebacker. Also

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Speaker 2: signed another long snapper, Anthony Miller, surprisingly out the door.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so adding a linebacker doesn't shock me one bit,

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Speaker 3: you know. I mean, I think it's adding depth there.

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Speaker 3: I would need to I need to give it some thought.

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Speaker 3: I've been kind of my son's been or my brain's

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Speaker 3: been roasting in the sun a little bit here in

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Speaker 3: the Hilton Head and now I'm wondering who. Maybe this's

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Speaker 3: the next thing I'll look at is who are the

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Speaker 3: core special teamers because some are gone from last year

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Speaker 3: and seemed like they were at least one of those

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Speaker 3: short that plays every phase. And I think Kawakowski or

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Speaker 3: I have to learn how pronounce his names, Baikowski, We'll

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Speaker 3: bet definitely be that and serviceable on the second level.

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Speaker 3: But it also tells me that I think this front office,

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Speaker 3: this coaching staff realizes it's probably a patchwork position. You know,

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Speaker 3: I'd rather invest in edge guys, corners, certainly offensive linemen,

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Speaker 3: rather than take big swings at linebacker. And if you

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Speaker 3: can have four dudes there, including the three that were there,

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Speaker 3: that are serviceable and not going to kill you, and

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Speaker 3: the rest of the offenses or defense is really strong,

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Speaker 3: I'm not sure I disagree with that way of team building.

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Speaker 3: And I was little shock to Miller left, to be honest,

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Speaker 3: I mean to me, that was the more surprising thing.

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Speaker 2: I wonder if they just decided, like they went to

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Speaker 2: him and said, hey, you know, we have we need

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Speaker 2: a spot because there are other guys they could have cut.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Were they doing him a favor?

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Speaker 2: Were they doing him a favor to allow him the

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Speaker 2: opportunity to go catch on somewhere else?

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Speaker 3: Quite possible, because he.

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Speaker 2: You know, yeah, he could have made this team, and

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Speaker 2: I think he can play in the NFL, you know,

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Speaker 2: but they just looked at it and said, you know what,

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Speaker 2: we're gonna get be a shot to catch on somewhere else.

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Speaker 2: We think he can play in the NFL, too, but

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Speaker 2: nobody's gonna trade for him coming off of an injury

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Speaker 2: last year. So they just look at and said, we're

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Speaker 2: gonna get We're gonna put you out there. Now you've

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Speaker 2: been a good because he was there all last year,

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Speaker 2: right right, you know, even when he was on IR

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Speaker 2: all season long. But he was a regular in the

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Speaker 2: locker room. And I think you know, it served a

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Speaker 2: little bit as a mentor to Calvin Austin.

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Speaker 1: They went to the same school.

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Speaker 2: Calvin Austin looks up to Anthony Miller, you know. So

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Speaker 2: I think they were doing him a solid there by

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Speaker 2: by allowing him to get out there and see if

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Speaker 2: he can catch on somewhere else.

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Speaker 3: So I'm glad you said that because a deep down

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Speaker 3: I kind of thought he had some weird His time

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Speaker 3: in Houston was a little odd, and I wondered, does

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Speaker 3: he not play well with others? It sounds like the

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Speaker 3: total opposite, you know, where people liked his personality, looked

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Speaker 3: up to him Austin, as you mentioned. So in turn,

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Speaker 3: maybe you helped that guy out more than the next

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Speaker 3: and say, here's plenty of time, but now in camp

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Speaker 3: you to latch on somewhere else and you have a

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Speaker 3: better chance of making that team. And I also think

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Speaker 3: it's kind of a feather in the cap to some

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Speaker 3: degree for Boykin and maybe Gonner as well, like, maybe

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Speaker 3: they're more in the mix than I thought.

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Speaker 2: Well that and and and you know they got the

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Speaker 2: big kid out of the XFL, Butler out of the XFL,

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Speaker 2: who's a monster. Yeah, they may have just decided, hey,

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Speaker 2: we want a bigger slot.

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Speaker 3: That's a good point too. I mean the Robinson trade

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Speaker 3: really shows that Claypool lined up a heavy percentage in

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Speaker 3: the slot before getting traded. I think they want a

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Speaker 3: big body there, which probably means Austin's on the outside,

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Speaker 3: which he did a ton of in college.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Right, right, So we'll see how this all works out.

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Speaker 1: I wrote it my five.

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Speaker 2: For Friday last week. Man, we'll see if you agree

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Speaker 2: with me on this.

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Speaker 1: We haven't. We haven't talked about.

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Speaker 2: This at all, right, but I was sitting there thinking

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Speaker 2: of what I could write last week, and this is

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Speaker 2: that time of year when you're trying to figure those

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Speaker 2: kind of things out. And I started thinking about it,

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Speaker 2: and I thought, you know what, Cole Holcom might be

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Speaker 2: their most valuable free agent.

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Speaker 1: That they signed this offseason. Wow. And I say that because.

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Speaker 2: I know everybody would point to Isaac sam Oliver, Patrick Peters.

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Speaker 2: They have other guys at those positions that can do

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Speaker 2: things similar to those to those two players.

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Speaker 1: Now, maybe not quite as well, but at least.

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Speaker 3: Similar herbig Dotson right, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Holcome to me is the guy that they don't have

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Speaker 2: another guy like him.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a really good point, which leads me, as

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Speaker 3: you were saying that, I was saying, I forget when

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Speaker 3: we recorded it, but one of our recent drives we

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Speaker 3: went through kind of most valuable or maybe least indispensable Steelers,

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Speaker 3: Holkm maybe should have been higher on our list.

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Speaker 2: Yeah he made Now that that's kind of what got

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Speaker 2: me thinking about that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know when you look at that lineback position

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Speaker 2: and Landon Roberts a two down guy, no doubt.

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Speaker 1: Mark Robinson right now is a two down guy.

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Speaker 2: Maybe Tayror Muse, Yeah, maybe Tanner Muse can be that guy.

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Speaker 1: I don't think kwaia Kowski is.

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Speaker 3: He's a two.

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Speaker 2: I mean, so they're really counting on Holcomb to be

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Speaker 2: that three down guy. Now, maybe if something happened long

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Speaker 2: term with him. Okay, so you bump Kean O'Neill mhm

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Speaker 2: inside and make him more of a linebacker again, because

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Speaker 2: he's done that. But they don't have another true linebacker

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Speaker 2: that that does what Hulcomb can do.

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Speaker 3: And every name you mentioned, including Holcomb, but much much

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Speaker 3: less so than him, has a wart or a question

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Speaker 3: you know, like Mark maybe they maybe there's people out

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Speaker 3: there going I think you guys are missing it. They

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Speaker 3: just love Mark Robinson. He's gonna be the next year.

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Speaker 3: He's awesome. Maybe, but chances are he's still a huge

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Speaker 3: question mark. And all those guys you mentioned are either

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Speaker 3: small like MW and Neil and not true true linebackers,

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Speaker 3: or they're not the athlete you want there, like Kywakowski

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Speaker 3: and the other one they signed, Robert Roberts right, I

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Speaker 3: missed his name, But they all have a warped you know.

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Speaker 1: I mean.

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Speaker 3: So it's a good point. I mean, Hulkom has a

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Speaker 3: lot of value. I would assume he's the green dot

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Speaker 3: guy and never leaves the field guy. But he's also

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Speaker 3: coming off an injury too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and he has been when he has

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Speaker 2: played ultra productive like he I added up the numbers

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Speaker 2: the last two seasons.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 2: He missed time last year, but two years ago he

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Speaker 2: played all seventeen games. If you look at his production

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Speaker 2: he's averaged it's like nine point four tackles a game

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Speaker 2: or something like that. Wow, I mean, he has been

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Speaker 2: a machine out there.

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Speaker 3: It makes me wonder And again, we're trying, and this

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Speaker 3: is what we're here for, especially this time of years.

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Speaker 3: Try to think as those around you think, and try

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Speaker 3: to figure out what the Steelers are thinking with their roster.

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Speaker 3: But maybe, deep down, maybe it's not a Mark Robinson's

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Speaker 3: going to be a star. Maybe they think they pulled

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Speaker 3: one over on the league on hulkm you know, like

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Speaker 3: if he plays seventeen games, maybe he gets double that contract.

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Speaker 3: Or it's clear he's an ascending player. People don't give

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Speaker 3: credit for being a great athlete. He's a great athlete.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: I mean, so maybe they look at him and be like,

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Speaker 3: we got a dude there, you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, if you don't. They're paying him

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Speaker 2: six million dollars. His contract average is out to six

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Speaker 2: million dollars a year too, right, So if he's Robin

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Speaker 2: and you still have to go find a batman, maybe,

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Speaker 2: you know, maybe maybe next year. Because that's that's the

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Speaker 2: other thing that got me thinking about this. I Mean,

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Speaker 2: everybody was freaking out two weeks ago when Taro Austin said, well,

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Speaker 2: Mark Robinson's still a year away. Well, first of all,

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Speaker 2: he's a seventh round draft pick.

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Speaker 3: That's round pick. They played like fifty STAPs last year.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I mean let's not get let's not put

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Speaker 2: the cart before the horse here. He's a he's a project.

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Speaker 2: He's a guy that okay, maybe yeah, athletically he could

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Speaker 2: turn into something, but he is. I mean, he played

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Speaker 2: linebacker for one year in college.

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Speaker 1: Right all right.

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Speaker 3: I mean, best case scenario with Robinson is he's a

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Speaker 3: training camp and great preseason away from being at least

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Speaker 3: in Oh.

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Speaker 1: I would not he will lead to stea.

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Speaker 2: I'll go out in a limb right now and say

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Speaker 2: he leads the Steelers in tackles in the preseason preseason.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he'll have.

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Speaker 2: They played three preseason games, he'll have thirty plus tackles

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Speaker 2: right around that.

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Speaker 1: He's gonna play a lot.

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Speaker 3: He's gonna play a lot and be in there a

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Speaker 3: lot of snaps and starting, probably as a starter as well.

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Speaker 3: I know some lunatics play preseason fantasy football. I don't

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Speaker 3: know if there's a touch of things preseason IDP fantasy

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Speaker 3: football lunatics probably, but go get Mark Robinson right now.

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Speaker 2: Oh, he's got I mean, he'll he'll play forty five

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Speaker 2: snaps a game in the preseason.

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Speaker 3: M h and'lly make some errors, but okay, who cares,

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Speaker 3: you know.

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Speaker 2: I mean that's what the preseason is for, to get

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Speaker 2: that guy ready and they can learn from that. And

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Speaker 2: you know, but he's he's a we've seen him going

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Speaker 2: forward and yes, he comes, he comes downhill and he.

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Speaker 1: Goes forward very well.

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Speaker 2: What we haven't seen a lot of from Mark Robinson

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Speaker 2: is Mark Robinson going backwards.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, and Ralph recognition right, things like that, right, right,

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Speaker 3: I mean there's time. He's already a splash player the

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Speaker 3: little we've seen of him. I mean, his traits are obvious,

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Speaker 3: but some of those splashes weren't so great either. I

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Speaker 3: mean they're running the wrong way and stuff like that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he goes, he goes wherever, he whatever

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Speaker 2: he sees.

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Speaker 1: He goes there really fast.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, and he's very determined. But this isn't

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Speaker 2: two thousand and one when you just tell kendro o'bell.

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Speaker 3: To go get the football, right and you reference this

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Speaker 3: a lot as this coach. You know, you'd rather say

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Speaker 3: woe than sick them. So he's got that part to him,

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Speaker 3: which is great. I mean Frankly, for Robinson, if he's

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Speaker 3: I don't say dominating, that's a big word, but if

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Speaker 3: he's really one of the best players on the field,

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Speaker 3: like in the second half of preseason games, that's progress

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Speaker 3: to me.

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Speaker 1: You know, yeah, that's what you want to see. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean he looks like he.

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Speaker 2: Is, you know, he looks like junior Seal out there

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Speaker 2: running around, you know, making all kinds of tackle.

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Speaker 1: It's fantastic.

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Speaker 2: But I want to say I want to see him

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Speaker 2: in coverage because if he has to play, he is

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Speaker 2: going to be targeted in coverage.

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Speaker 1: That's what teams will do, no doubt.

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Speaker 3: And frankly, their whole linebacking corps right now, including hulkomb

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Speaker 3: but less so, they're gonna get targeted early and often too.

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Speaker 3: I mean, those guys are gonna get tested. None of

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Speaker 3: them are proven. I'm sure Shanahan's looking at them right now,

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Speaker 3: like I want Kittle on against those guys and McCaffrey

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Speaker 3: on crossing routes. And to me, it's the biggest question

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Speaker 3: of the defense, I mean, and that's why they will

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Speaker 3: go from that and other Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so, I mean that's the other team as coaches too,

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Speaker 2: they're going to figure out what your weakness is and

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Speaker 2: they're going to try to attack them.

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Speaker 1: People.

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Speaker 2: Wonder if you know when we had Hulkaman during Ota sessions,

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Speaker 2: he talked about, you know, I gotta be out I

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Speaker 2: gotta be able to go out there and step out

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Speaker 2: there and cover a running back.

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Speaker 1: I gotta be able to cover a tight end. I

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Speaker 1: gotta be to cover a wide receiver.

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Speaker 2: Believe it or not, folks, when he was in Washington,

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Speaker 2: he gets stuck covering wide receivers because that's what teams do.

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Speaker 2: They'll put you, yeah, they'll get you matched up. It's

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Speaker 2: not it wasn't a Keith Butler thing, it wasn't a

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Speaker 2: dicklar Both thing before him. That's what teams do. That's

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Speaker 2: what opposing offensive coordinators will do. They will try to

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Speaker 2: get you to the point where you have to match

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Speaker 2: up a linebacker on a wide receiver, no.

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Speaker 3: No doubt, And that's gonna happen no matter what I do.

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Speaker 3: Think again, none of these guys are Lambert Shazier, you know, superstars.

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Speaker 3: But there's a lot of situational action here. And let's

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Speaker 3: go back to your original point. If Holcom's always one

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Speaker 3: of them ninety percent whatever, when he's healthy and he's

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Speaker 3: playing reasonably well. The other two to me are the

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Speaker 3: bangers and then there's the light guys. You know, maybe

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Speaker 3: it just depends on situation. You rotate that second linebacker

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Speaker 3: a lot.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, ideally you'd like to not have to

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Speaker 2: do that. No doubt they've had they've been doing something

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Speaker 2: similar to that the last couple of years, you know,

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Speaker 2: but you do have to have a guy who's your

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Speaker 2: bread and butter guy. And if that's Hulkom, if he's

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Speaker 2: if he shows he can be that guy. Because what

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Speaker 2: you don't want to have to do is all of

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Speaker 2: a sudden, it's a passing down and he has to

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Speaker 2: come off the field. You put Tanner Mus out there

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Speaker 2: because because then the opposing team is gonna run the football.

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Speaker 2: You know, that's that was the problem that they That's

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Speaker 2: what they've been doing the last few years. And it's

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Speaker 2: a tell you know, okay, we're gonna you got you

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Speaker 2: got this guy off the field. Now we're gonna do this.

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Speaker 2: That's their dime linebacker. You know, Splain is the dime linebacker. Okay,

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Speaker 2: here's what they're probably gonna you know, rush him. You know,

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Speaker 2: he's gonna blitz. It's just it tips your hand too much.

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Speaker 3: And these offensive coordinators and these running backs and tight

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Speaker 3: ends are all so good in the passing game and

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Speaker 3: so good mentally that they're gonna make your linebackers as

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Speaker 3: much as any position on the defense, do things they

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Speaker 3: don't like.

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Speaker 1: Do it.

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Speaker 3: You know, you're not a good man coverage guy. Well,

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Speaker 3: if you're gonna live in zone, we're gonna zone beater

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Speaker 3: you to death, or you know what I mean. And

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Speaker 3: it's a problem. And the Steelers have the perfect solution

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Speaker 3: right now, far from it in my opinion. But in

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Speaker 3: order to get the perfect solution, you gotta pay Tremaine

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Speaker 3: Edmunds or you know, a huge money or a second

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Speaker 3: round pick and huge money for Rokwan Smith or flat

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Speaker 3: out get super lucky in the second or third round

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Speaker 3: with Leonard or Warner, you know, like there's only like

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Speaker 3: five of them on the planet, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, if you want to have one, it's

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Speaker 2: gonna cost you eighteen million dollars a year. I mean,

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Speaker 2: if Ryan Shazier we're still playing right now, Ryan shazer

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Speaker 2: would be a twenty million dollar year player.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, assuming he's the player we thought he

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Speaker 3: was and all that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no doubt.

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Speaker 2: I mean there's because he's he's never coming off the field.

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Speaker 3: Never coming off the field doesn't compromise athleticism, streame, athlete,

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Speaker 3: head for the game can't be manipulated. I mean, there's

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Speaker 3: Rokee one, there's Leonard, there's Warner. The list dries up

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Speaker 3: pretty quickly after that, and it might not be worth

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Speaker 3: paying those guys and not to mention like, yeah, Tremaine Edmunds.

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Speaker 3: I hope he does great, but he's not. I'm not

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Speaker 3: sure he's worth eighteen million. You know, he's not out

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Speaker 3: of the woods. Is a great player yet?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so, you know, it's it depends on how you

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Speaker 2: want to build your team. To go back to your

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Speaker 2: original point here, is this the proper way to build

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Speaker 2: a defense? Strong upfront, strong on the back end. You know,

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Speaker 2: we'll see about the middle. If your if your front

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Speaker 2: line is doing it, so, if your defensive linemen are

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Speaker 2: doing their job, then you should be okay. If your

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Speaker 2: pass rush, if your pass rush is doing its job,

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Speaker 2: those guys should be okay. And coverage, if you don't

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Speaker 2: give the quarterback time to that you know, three seconds

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Speaker 2: or you know two and a half seconds to hit

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Speaker 2: those quick crossing those crossing routes, then you know that

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Speaker 2: changes everything.

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Speaker 3: And as is often the case, I mean, this is

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Speaker 3: a league wide thing more than a Steeler thing. But

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Speaker 3: if you're not great at the second level and you're

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Speaker 3: playing a lot of too high shelves as the league

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Speaker 3: is really trended too well, then you need to complete six, eight,

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Speaker 3: ten passes to go eighty yards, you know, you know,

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Speaker 3: so there's no perfect answer.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the Eagles last year weren't good.

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Speaker 2: At linebacker, and they let those two go, and they

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Speaker 2: let those two guys go, but they had seventy plus sacks.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because they have share linemen, right.

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Speaker 2: So you know that they just did it a different way.

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Speaker 2: And so maybe that's what the Steelers are thinking here.

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Speaker 2: Maybe they say, hey, we can we can get by

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Speaker 2: at linebacker.

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Speaker 1: Maybe we've got a guy in.

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Speaker 2: Cole Holcom who can be our every down guy. And

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Speaker 2: maybe he's not going to be a superstar, but if

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Speaker 2: he just does the job and does his job, the

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Speaker 2: rest of the defense around him will be will be Okay, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: everything falls into place, and we're not gonna We're not

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Speaker 2: going to pay ten plus million dollars a year at

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Speaker 2: that position anymore, right.

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Speaker 3: Right, I think that's the way. That's I think that's

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Speaker 3: why I would team build. I mean, unless you lucked

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Speaker 3: into a Warner or somebody like that, and it is

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Speaker 3: an Eagles way of doing things. They're certainly not alone,

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Speaker 3: but every team does is some form of this. I

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Speaker 3: mean I always tell people Dick Lebow's defenses cut corner

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Speaker 3: at corner. You know, they played a lot of off,

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Speaker 3: they blitzed a lot, come up and tackle. You know,

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Speaker 3: Oh they don't have good corners. Well they didn't invest

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Speaker 3: in them all that heavy either.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean if you're drafting your cornerbacks in the fourth

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Speaker 2: round then later every year, right, you know, yeah, you're

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Speaker 2: not gonna have superstars there.

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Speaker 3: An perfect example to me is the Peyton Manning led Colts.

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Speaker 3: Well they drafted. If you look at their first round picks,

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Speaker 3: it's Wayne Harrison, edge, Dallas Clark. There were weapons for

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Speaker 3: Peyton over and over. They paid Saturday big money at

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Speaker 3: the center, they paid Threek Glenn big money at left tackle,

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Speaker 3: and the defense was fourth round picks galore plus free

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Speaker 3: Enie and mathis you know, like we can't have everything.

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Speaker 2: Yeah too, but we'll have edge rushers and we'll just

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Speaker 2: skip by everywhere.

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Speaker 3: Else, yep, And we're gonna throw next year's fourth round

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Speaker 3: pick will be our middle linebacker, and the year after

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Speaker 3: that will be our fifth round pick will linebacker. And

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Speaker 3: we're gonna play cover two and rush the passer.

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Speaker 1: And it worked to a degaton.

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Speaker 3: He scores a ton of points and yeah, keep up,

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Speaker 3: you know, right, and we play in the dome and

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Speaker 3: you got a block freen you know yeah.

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Speaker 1: So, I mean, it's just different ways to do things.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad you brought up the weapons part of that

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Speaker 2: because that's going to lead me into what our next

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Speaker 2: segment is going to be met. I don't know if

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Speaker 2: you saw this or not you've been traveling, but Bill

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Speaker 2: Barnwell ranked the weapons for each team one through thirty two.

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Speaker 3: Cool, let's do it.

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Speaker 1: So we will talk about that when we return.

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Speaker 2: We'll see where the Steelers rank on that list. He

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Speaker 2: is Matt Williamson. I am Dale Lelly. You're listening to

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Speaker 2: the drive here on Steelers Nation Radio. We'll be back

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Speaker 2: with more right after this