WEBVTT - The WOW Machine Stops (Pt 2) 

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<v Speaker 1>Pushkin a warning before we start. This cautionary tale discusses

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<v Speaker 1>death by suicide. If you're suffering emotional distress or you're

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<v Speaker 1>having suicidal thoughts, support is available, for example, from the

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<v Speaker 1>nine eight eight Suicide and Crisis Lifeline in the US

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<v Speaker 1>or the Samaritans in the UK. On the fourth of

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<v Speaker 1>July twenty twenty, in Park City, Utah, two friends are

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<v Speaker 1>drinking beer on the porch of the airbnb they've rented

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<v Speaker 1>for the holidays. Happy fourth, They call out to a

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<v Speaker 1>man walking past on the sidewalk. The passer by stops

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<v Speaker 1>to chat. They notice he's not wearing any shoes, his

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<v Speaker 1>clothes are tattered, and his eyes are glass Perhaps they

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<v Speaker 1>shouldn't have attracted his attention. What do you do, the

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<v Speaker 1>shoeless man asks them. The friends exchange a glance. One

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<v Speaker 1>guardedly volunteers that he works in recruitment. Oh, says the

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<v Speaker 1>shoeless man. I'm recruiting people to come and live here

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<v Speaker 1>in Park City. I'm building a community. I can offer

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<v Speaker 1>you a fee for everyone you bring in. Let me

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<v Speaker 1>tell you my number. The friend politely takes down the number,

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<v Speaker 1>then forgets all about it. The man seemed high and homeless.

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<v Speaker 1>It obviously wasn't serious. The shoeless man might indeed have

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<v Speaker 1>been high, but he wasn't homeless, and he was deadly serious.

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<v Speaker 1>He was billionaire Tony Shay. This is the second of

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<v Speaker 1>two cautionary tales about Tony Shay, who made his fortune

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<v Speaker 1>with the online shoe retailer Zappos. If you haven't heard

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<v Speaker 1>part one, you might want to do that. Now we

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<v Speaker 1>heard how Tony wrote a best selling book about employee happiness,

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<v Speaker 1>then imposed a management fad that many employees hated. Tony

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<v Speaker 1>loved ideas, the kind that sound wise in a Ted talk,

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<v Speaker 1>but work in practice only if you really think the

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<v Speaker 1>details through. In this episode, we focus on one wise

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<v Speaker 1>idea that Tony really didn't think through community. In his book,

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<v Speaker 1>Tony links happiness to connectedness with others. He tried to

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<v Speaker 1>build a community in Las Vegas. As we'll hear, that

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<v Speaker 1>didn't go well. Now in Park City, he was trying again.

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<v Speaker 1>He wanted to surround himself with people who'd make him

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<v Speaker 1>feel connected and happy. Instead, his misjudgments led to his death.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Tim Harford and you're listening to cautionary Tales. Philip

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<v Speaker 1>Prentice was delighted to be offered the job. The salary

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<v Speaker 1>was over one hundred thousand dollars a year, pretty good

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<v Speaker 1>for a newly qualified accountant in Las Vegas in October

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twelve. In today's terms, that I'll be near a

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<v Speaker 1>one hundred and fifty thousand. He'd gets to options too.

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<v Speaker 1>Prinice's new employer was a startup called Ecomom. As the

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<v Speaker 1>name suggests, it sold a variety of eco friendly parent

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<v Speaker 1>related products diapers, baby food, clothes, toys. It was doing well,

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<v Speaker 1>or so it seemed. Its revenues were growing quickly. Just

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<v Speaker 1>a few months earlier, it had raised millions in financing.

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<v Speaker 1>One of those investments came with strings attached. The investor

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<v Speaker 1>wanted Ecomom to move from Los Angeles to Las Vegas.

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<v Speaker 1>There's something to do with building a community. Ecomom's founder,

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<v Speaker 1>a forty seven year old man called Jody Sherman, agreed

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<v Speaker 1>to relocate and asked his staff to come with him.

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<v Speaker 1>It was tough for Sherman. His wife had commitments in

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<v Speaker 1>Los Angeles that she couldn't easily break, so Sherman had

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<v Speaker 1>to leave her behind for now, along with his network

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<v Speaker 1>of friends. Philip Prentiss describes what kind of person. Jody

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<v Speaker 1>Sherman was a great guy, outgoing, personable, enthusiastic, funny. I

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<v Speaker 1>never heard him say a bad word to or about anyone.

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<v Speaker 1>Prentiss loved coming into work. Morale was high, the staff

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<v Speaker 1>were treated well. Prentiss was Ecomom's very first accountant. Up

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<v Speaker 1>to now, Sherman had outsourced its payroll and invoices to

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<v Speaker 1>an external provider. But the company had grown big enough

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<v Speaker 1>to need someone full time in house, and something wasn't right.

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<v Speaker 1>Sherman didn't know what wasn't right exactly, but somehow or other,

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<v Speaker 1>the figure in Ecomom's bank account kept going down. Prentiss

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<v Speaker 1>recalls that Sherman used to have heated discussions with his

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<v Speaker 1>VP of marketing. What are you doing? Sherman would ask,

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<v Speaker 1>where's the money? Sales are great? The VP of marketing

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<v Speaker 1>would reply, We're on track to hit all our targets,

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<v Speaker 1>but where's the money. Sherman grew increasingly exasperated. I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>seeing the money in our bank. Jody Sherman was a

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<v Speaker 1>great guy, said Prentiss, but he was not a numbers guy.

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<v Speaker 1>Whenever Prentice tried to show him a sheet full of figures,

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<v Speaker 1>he'd waved away, saying no one can understand this. He

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<v Speaker 1>also approved everyone's spending requests with barely a glance Prentice noticed.

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<v Speaker 1>Could this be the root of the problem. Prentice investigated. Nope,

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<v Speaker 1>All the employees were honest. There were no inflated expenses claims,

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<v Speaker 1>no dodgy looking in voices. And yet when Prentice pulled

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<v Speaker 1>together the figures for October, they showed Ecomom had lost

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<v Speaker 1>over half a million dollars. November would be better, right,

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<v Speaker 1>The Black Friday sales were clearly going well. In the

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<v Speaker 1>ecomom office, someone rang a bell after every one hundred order.

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<v Speaker 1>The bell rang more and more frequently, and yet when

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<v Speaker 1>Prentice did the sums at the end of the month,

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<v Speaker 1>he found that in November Ecomom had lost nearly a

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<v Speaker 1>million dollars. Higher sales, bigger losses. Prentice saw the problem.

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<v Speaker 1>Ecomom had issued so many discounts and voucher codes that

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<v Speaker 1>every sale was losing the money. An average order brought

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<v Speaker 1>in sixty dollars but cost nearly ninety dollars to fulfill.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not unusual for a startup to sell with a

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<v Speaker 1>negative margin at first, but it's generally a conscious decision

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<v Speaker 1>as part of a wider strategy for becoming profitable somewhere

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<v Speaker 1>down the line. As far as Philip Prentiss could see,

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<v Speaker 1>Ecomom had no such strategy. Jody Sherman called a high

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<v Speaker 1>powered management meeting, and Prentice prepared an analysis. If Ecomom

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<v Speaker 1>were to stop selling anything he worked out, and all

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<v Speaker 1>the employees simply sat around and played ping pong all day,

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<v Speaker 1>they'd have enough in the bank to pay themselves for

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<v Speaker 1>two more years. But if sales kept growing, they'd run

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<v Speaker 1>out of cash in just three months. The management meeting,

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<v Speaker 1>recalls Prentice, was surreal. Nobody asked him to present any

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<v Speaker 1>of the figures he had prepared. The only figure anyone

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<v Speaker 1>presented was the year on year growth in sales, which

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<v Speaker 1>looked amazing, as the VP of Marketing had said they

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<v Speaker 1>were hitting all their targets. Still, Jody Sherman made it

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<v Speaker 1>clear they had to do something better. But what the

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<v Speaker 1>meeting discussed market strategies for selling the eco mom lifestyle,

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<v Speaker 1>Prentice recalls it discussed expanding our email and customer base.

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<v Speaker 1>It discussed expanding our marketing team. I can't remember exactly

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<v Speaker 1>what else was discussed, but I can tell you for sure.

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<v Speaker 1>The word margin and the word profit were never mentioned.

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<v Speaker 1>In December, sales continued to go well, the number in

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<v Speaker 1>the bank account kept on getting lower, and Jody Sherman

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<v Speaker 1>became even more frantic. Prentice again tried to present his figures,

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<v Speaker 1>and Sherman again waved them away. Phil. He said, just

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<v Speaker 1>tell me how much we need to sell to break even.

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<v Speaker 1>He did not understand margin, recalls Prentice. He did not

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<v Speaker 1>understand that increased sales resulted in increased losses. Sherman tried

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<v Speaker 1>desperately to raise more money from investors. He asked Prentice

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<v Speaker 1>how much longer the money in their bank account would

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<v Speaker 1>last if he sacked half the staff, some of whom

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<v Speaker 1>he was all too aware, had uprooted their own lives

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<v Speaker 1>in Los Angeles to follow him to Vegas. I feel

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<v Speaker 1>terrible about this, he said, and those weren't empty words.

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<v Speaker 1>Sherman was clearly feeling the pressure. He started saying things

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<v Speaker 1>like I'm too old to start over. He handed a

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<v Speaker 1>document to his secretary. That's my will, he said. He

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<v Speaker 1>sent an email to other company founders in Las Vegas

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<v Speaker 1>to propose a get together. Oftentimes, he wrote, I find

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<v Speaker 1>myself with no one to talk to about the challenges

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<v Speaker 1>I might be facing, the frustrations the stress. I thought, Hey,

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<v Speaker 1>I know a bunch of founders who probably find themselves

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<v Speaker 1>in similar situations. I should hang with them. A meeting

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<v Speaker 1>was arranged, but Jody didn't make it. Police found his

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<v Speaker 1>body in his car in the mountains outside Las Vegas.

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<v Speaker 1>Jody had taken his own life. The investor who had

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<v Speaker 1>required Jody Sherman to move from Los Angeles to Las

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<v Speaker 1>Vegas was, of course, Tony Say. After Amazon bought Zappos

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<v Speaker 1>and kept him on as CEO, Tony committed three hundred

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<v Speaker 1>and fifty million dollars of his own money to the

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<v Speaker 1>Downtown Project or DTP. He moved Zappos from its office

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<v Speaker 1>in the suburbs to the old City Hall building in

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<v Speaker 1>the heart of downtown. The area was ced and run down,

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<v Speaker 1>but Tony was going to change that by buying up

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<v Speaker 1>real estate and investing in businesses. He wouldn't measure the

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<v Speaker 1>project's success through ROI, he explained, return on investment. He'd

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<v Speaker 1>measure it through ROC return on community. He'd bring together

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<v Speaker 1>entrepreneurs like Jody Sherman, and they'd former community. He wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to turn downtown Las Vegas into the most community focused

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<v Speaker 1>large city in the world. And yet somehow, what Jody

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<v Speaker 1>Sherman had need he did so desperately had been a

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<v Speaker 1>sense of community, but it hadn't been there for him.

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<v Speaker 1>Cautionary tales will be back after the break. When Zappo's

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<v Speaker 1>employee Rob Ponte returned home from work, he was surprised

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<v Speaker 1>to find police tape across the door of his apartment. Inside,

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<v Speaker 1>he saw that someone had been rummaging in his draws

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<v Speaker 1>and poking around in his computer. He called the police

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<v Speaker 1>department and asked what's going on. The police was surprised

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<v Speaker 1>to hear from him. They said, we thought you were dead.

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<v Speaker 1>They'd been in Ponte's apartment, they explained, looking for a

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<v Speaker 1>suicide note and for details of his next of kin.

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<v Speaker 1>Ponte later discovered they'd phoned his mum. Thankfully she didn't answer.

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<v Speaker 1>Ponte and the police pieced together what had happened. Someone

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<v Speaker 1>who looked like Rob Ponte had killed himself. The dead

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<v Speaker 1>man turned out to be a young employee of Tony

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<v Speaker 1>Shay's downtown project. Less than a year had passed since

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<v Speaker 1>Jody Sherman's suicide. A few months after that, another entrepreneur

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<v Speaker 1>who had taken funding from the Downtown project took his

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<v Speaker 1>own life. The Downtown project wasn't that big, just a

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<v Speaker 1>few hundred people, so three suicides seemed like a pattern.

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<v Speaker 1>Were there underlying factors? What might they be? The journalist

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<v Speaker 1>Nelly Bowles asked around. At an event. She sat down

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<v Speaker 1>next to Tony and asked for his thoughts. Suicides happen anywhere.

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<v Speaker 1>Tony said, look at the stats. Then he got up

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<v Speaker 1>and moved to another chair. But others she spoke to

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<v Speaker 1>did have some theories to share. In the last episode

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<v Speaker 1>of Cautionary Tales, we met the idea of the profit

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<v Speaker 1>seeking paradox. The economist John Kay points out that the

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<v Speaker 1>most profitable companies tend not to be those that focus

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<v Speaker 1>directly on profits. But this is only one example, says Kay,

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<v Speaker 1>of a wider principle he calls obliquity. Many other goals

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<v Speaker 1>in life are best pursued not directly but obliquely. Another

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<v Speaker 1>example happiness. The more you try to be happy, the

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<v Speaker 1>more elusive happiness seems to be. This isn't a new idea.

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<v Speaker 1>One hundred and fifty years ago, the philosopher John Stuart

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<v Speaker 1>Mill observed that the happiest people he knew have their

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<v Speaker 1>minds fixed on some other object other than their own happiness,

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<v Speaker 1>on the happiness of others, on the improvement of mankind,

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<v Speaker 1>even on some art or pursuit followed not as a means,

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<v Speaker 1>but as itself an ideal end aiming thus at something else,

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<v Speaker 1>said Mill, they find happiness, by the way, But is

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<v Speaker 1>this observation true? In twenty eleven, researchers devised an experiment

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<v Speaker 1>to investigate. They got some subjects to read an article

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<v Speaker 1>about how important it is to be happy, because happy

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<v Speaker 1>people are more healthy and successful. Then they showed a

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<v Speaker 1>video that should evoke feelings of happiness about a figure

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<v Speaker 1>skater winning a medal and celebrating with her coach. Then

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<v Speaker 1>they asked how happy do you feel? The subjects who

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<v Speaker 1>had read the article on happiness were less happy than

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<v Speaker 1>those in a control group who had watched the video

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<v Speaker 1>but hadn't read the article first. It seemed that being

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<v Speaker 1>prompted to think about the importance of happiness made people's

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<v Speaker 1>second guests themselves that video should have made me happy.

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<v Speaker 1>Why am I not happier? That's disappointing People who weren't

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<v Speaker 1>thinking about the importance of happiness simply watched the video

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<v Speaker 1>and felt happy under certain circumstances. The researchers conclude valuing

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<v Speaker 1>happiness maybe self defeating. When he launched the Downtown project,

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<v Speaker 1>Tony Shay had just published his best selling book on Happiness.

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<v Speaker 1>He'd also be reading about what makes cities productive, including

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<v Speaker 1>chance encounters between productive people, or what Tony called collisions.

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<v Speaker 1>The bigger the city, the more of these serendipitous encounters

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<v Speaker 1>you might expect. Tony decided that serendipity, like happiness, was

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<v Speaker 1>a goal you could pursue directly. He invested in spaces

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<v Speaker 1>where collisions could happen, such as bars. He wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>institutionalize return on luck. He came up with a metric

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<v Speaker 1>maximizing collisionable hours per acre per year. All this piled

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<v Speaker 1>expectations on the entrepreneurs who had moved to Las Vegas

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<v Speaker 1>to get an investment from Tony. There's a pressure to

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<v Speaker 1>socialize and go out, one told the journalist Nelly Bowls.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a pressure to party. Everyone at the party's would

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<v Speaker 1>be either another entrepreneur or an investor. People felt the

0:19:15.930 --> 0:19:19.130
<v Speaker 1>need to put on a mask. A counselor told Nelly

0:19:19.170 --> 0:19:25.690
<v Speaker 1>Bowls and say everything's great. They knew they were supposed

0:19:25.730 --> 0:19:31.250
<v Speaker 1>to be happy. If they weren't, they felt disappointed, even ashamed.

0:19:32.330 --> 0:19:34.490
<v Speaker 1>They had no one to confide in when they had

0:19:34.530 --> 0:19:39.290
<v Speaker 1>a bad day. The focus on happiness, says the counselor

0:19:39.930 --> 0:19:46.050
<v Speaker 1>was not psychologically healthy. The irony is that the entrepreneurs

0:19:46.170 --> 0:19:49.650
<v Speaker 1>might have had people to confide in before they moved

0:19:49.650 --> 0:19:54.210
<v Speaker 1>to Vegas. Jody Sherman, for example, had left behind his

0:19:54.330 --> 0:19:59.410
<v Speaker 1>wife and friends in Los Angeles. In Vegas, he found

0:19:59.490 --> 0:20:03.050
<v Speaker 1>himself with no one to talk to. Tony had seemed to

0:20:03.090 --> 0:20:07.410
<v Speaker 1>think that you could simply bring entrepreneurs together in collisionable

0:20:07.530 --> 0:20:13.250
<v Speaker 1>spaces and their former community. But community can't be forced,

0:20:14.210 --> 0:20:18.930
<v Speaker 1>like happiness. You find it if you're lucky. While aiming

0:20:18.970 --> 0:20:27.730
<v Speaker 1>at something else, Tony had launched the Downtown Project with

0:20:27.930 --> 0:20:32.170
<v Speaker 1>big ambitions to turn Las Vegas into the most community

0:20:32.290 --> 0:20:37.450
<v Speaker 1>focused large city in the world. As the project floundered,

0:20:38.170 --> 0:20:42.450
<v Speaker 1>Tony changed his mind. He was going to stop using

0:20:42.490 --> 0:20:46.610
<v Speaker 1>the word community. He'd learned that it gave people the

0:20:46.650 --> 0:20:51.210
<v Speaker 1>wrong idea. People expect us to address and solve every

0:20:51.290 --> 0:20:55.090
<v Speaker 1>single problem that exists in a city, he said, for example,

0:20:55.330 --> 0:21:01.250
<v Speaker 1>mental health. We're not the government. Instead Tony turned his

0:21:01.330 --> 0:21:06.770
<v Speaker 1>attention to a different community, his own personal community that

0:21:06.890 --> 0:21:11.290
<v Speaker 1>he curated around himself. In his personal quest for happiness,

0:21:12.970 --> 0:21:16.450
<v Speaker 1>Tony moved into an airstream trailer in an empty lot

0:21:16.570 --> 0:21:20.170
<v Speaker 1>in downtown Las Vegas and moved some of his closest

0:21:20.210 --> 0:21:25.650
<v Speaker 1>friends into other trailers. Because Tony believed in work life integration,

0:21:26.170 --> 0:21:29.770
<v Speaker 1>those close friends tended also to be either his employees

0:21:30.330 --> 0:21:33.930
<v Speaker 1>or business partners. Having them live around him meant he

0:21:33.930 --> 0:21:36.570
<v Speaker 1>could call them in for work meetings at any hour

0:21:36.610 --> 0:21:42.050
<v Speaker 1>of the day. Airstream park had fire pits and a

0:21:42.090 --> 0:21:46.690
<v Speaker 1>stage for musical performances, and shipping containers that housed laundry

0:21:46.730 --> 0:21:52.730
<v Speaker 1>facilities and crates of Fernet branca, Tony's favorite drink. It

0:21:52.810 --> 0:21:58.250
<v Speaker 1>had chickens, dogs, cats, and a pet alpaca called Marley.

0:22:00.010 --> 0:22:03.930
<v Speaker 1>A journalist described his experience of a night at airstream park.

0:22:05.250 --> 0:22:08.890
<v Speaker 1>A bearded man was doing a handstand, A high school

0:22:08.890 --> 0:22:12.370
<v Speaker 1>girl earl sang and played guitar. I saw Tony pick

0:22:12.410 --> 0:22:16.730
<v Speaker 1>up a tambourine. I gathered that this idyllic scene was

0:22:16.810 --> 0:22:22.850
<v Speaker 1>typical of life in Tony Shay's magical kingdom. Not every

0:22:22.970 --> 0:22:25.890
<v Speaker 1>employee friend of Tony wanted to live in his trailer

0:22:25.970 --> 0:22:30.050
<v Speaker 1>park id. Although Tyler Williams, who we met in the

0:22:30.090 --> 0:22:33.290
<v Speaker 1>last episode, had grown close to Tony through his work

0:22:33.330 --> 0:22:37.410
<v Speaker 1>as the fungineer at Zappo's, in charge of projects like

0:22:37.490 --> 0:22:41.490
<v Speaker 1>the instant dance floor in the Zappo's lobby. Push a

0:22:41.530 --> 0:22:46.770
<v Speaker 1>button labeled never push this button, and the lobby would

0:22:46.770 --> 0:22:51.970
<v Speaker 1>pulster booming music, disco lights, and smoke from a smoke machine.

0:22:53.090 --> 0:22:57.930
<v Speaker 1>Tyler was Tony's drinking buddy, but Tyler's wife said, no,

0:22:58.770 --> 0:23:03.490
<v Speaker 1>We're not living in a trailer Tony wondered if Tyler's

0:23:03.530 --> 0:23:06.410
<v Speaker 1>wife might like to work for him like other residents

0:23:06.410 --> 0:23:11.690
<v Speaker 1>of the trailer park. No. Said. When Tony started to

0:23:11.770 --> 0:23:15.450
<v Speaker 1>experiment with ketimin and got Tyler to take it with him,

0:23:15.490 --> 0:23:18.970
<v Speaker 1>Tyler's wife told him to stop. I don't like who

0:23:19.010 --> 0:23:21.410
<v Speaker 1>you are when you take that drug. She told Tyler,

0:23:22.170 --> 0:23:26.850
<v Speaker 1>You're not the same Tyler that I know. Ketimin seemed

0:23:26.890 --> 0:23:31.610
<v Speaker 1>to be changing Tony too. Tyler had access to Tony's

0:23:31.650 --> 0:23:36.490
<v Speaker 1>Apple watchdata, and he could see that Tony hardly ever slept.

0:23:38.170 --> 0:23:41.370
<v Speaker 1>Tony threw a party for a friend called Ryan, which

0:23:41.410 --> 0:23:46.370
<v Speaker 1>involved Ryan being blindfolded bundled into a car handed a

0:23:46.410 --> 0:23:51.010
<v Speaker 1>mysterious ice cold package and driven around Las Vegas before

0:23:51.250 --> 0:23:56.850
<v Speaker 1>arriving at the party venue. The mysterious package turned out

0:23:56.890 --> 0:24:03.170
<v Speaker 1>to be a frozen salmon. This all apparently made perfect

0:24:03.210 --> 0:24:07.970
<v Speaker 1>sense to Tony, but not to anyone else. As Ryan

0:24:08.010 --> 0:24:11.090
<v Speaker 1>put it to a fellow, guessed what the fuck is

0:24:11.170 --> 0:24:19.090
<v Speaker 1>going on? An old flame visited Tony was shocked by

0:24:19.090 --> 0:24:22.490
<v Speaker 1>what she found and begged him to get some sleep.

0:24:23.730 --> 0:24:27.250
<v Speaker 1>When he insisted he was fine, she began to cry.

0:24:28.890 --> 0:24:31.930
<v Speaker 1>The next morning, Tony showed her a wall of post

0:24:31.970 --> 0:24:35.850
<v Speaker 1>it notes in his trailer. Each note had the name

0:24:35.890 --> 0:24:40.690
<v Speaker 1>of a friend and a number from plus to minus three.

0:24:40.970 --> 0:24:44.810
<v Speaker 1>You were a plus two till last night, Tony told her.

0:24:45.970 --> 0:24:50.170
<v Speaker 1>Now you were a negative one point five. You were

0:24:50.250 --> 0:24:55.650
<v Speaker 1>judging me, and I don't like to be judged. Tony

0:24:55.890 --> 0:24:59.250
<v Speaker 1>needed help, but it was hard to tell him that.

0:24:59.570 --> 0:25:03.530
<v Speaker 1>While remaining positive on his post it wall, Ryan of

0:25:03.610 --> 0:25:08.490
<v Speaker 1>the Frozen Salmon had a try your CEO of Zappo's,

0:25:08.530 --> 0:25:13.290
<v Speaker 1>he reminded Tony, and Zappos is owned by Amazon. You

0:25:13.410 --> 0:25:15.770
<v Speaker 1>might think you can handle the drugs, but what if

0:25:15.770 --> 0:25:19.410
<v Speaker 1>Amazon disagree? They could fire you. You don't want that.

0:25:20.690 --> 0:25:24.370
<v Speaker 1>There's a rehab place in Park City. You like it there,

0:25:24.970 --> 0:25:29.050
<v Speaker 1>You go to the Sundance Film Festival every year. Ryan

0:25:29.250 --> 0:25:35.730
<v Speaker 1>was persistent and persuasive. Tony checked himself into rehab, but

0:25:35.970 --> 0:25:39.610
<v Speaker 1>after less than two weeks he checked himself out again.

0:25:40.770 --> 0:25:46.490
<v Speaker 1>This was, he decided, perfectly fine, but perhaps he had

0:25:46.530 --> 0:25:50.410
<v Speaker 1>overlooked something. He asked Tyler to compile a list of

0:25:50.450 --> 0:25:52.970
<v Speaker 1>the things that had made some of his friends think

0:25:53.010 --> 0:25:57.170
<v Speaker 1>he needed rehab as we heard last time, like his

0:25:57.290 --> 0:26:02.210
<v Speaker 1>ambition to become seven feet tall, recycle his urine inside

0:26:02.210 --> 0:26:07.210
<v Speaker 1>his body, and solve world peace. He saw nothing on

0:26:07.290 --> 0:26:10.370
<v Speaker 1>Tyler's list to worry about, but he decided that he

0:26:10.570 --> 0:26:14.730
<v Speaker 1>wasn't going back to Vegas. Things hadn't been working out there,

0:26:15.210 --> 0:26:19.370
<v Speaker 1>and he'd learned lessons. He would apply those lessons to

0:26:19.370 --> 0:26:25.930
<v Speaker 1>build a new community in Park City. Cautionary tales will

0:26:25.970 --> 0:26:38.610
<v Speaker 1>be back in a moment. Tony invited some of his

0:26:38.690 --> 0:26:42.690
<v Speaker 1>friends to join him in Park City, not all of them,

0:26:42.730 --> 0:26:48.410
<v Speaker 1>though not Frozen Salmon Ryan, for example, Ryan had manipulated

0:26:48.450 --> 0:26:50.930
<v Speaker 1>him into going to rehab when there'd been nothing wrong

0:26:50.970 --> 0:26:54.690
<v Speaker 1>with him. One lesson he had learned from Las Vegas

0:26:55.490 --> 0:26:58.050
<v Speaker 1>was to cut off the people who tried to hold

0:26:58.130 --> 0:27:05.050
<v Speaker 1>him back, Ryan was no longer welcome. It was early

0:27:05.210 --> 0:27:10.890
<v Speaker 1>spring twenty twenty when Tony left rehab in the COVID lockdown.

0:27:11.330 --> 0:27:15.850
<v Speaker 1>He seemed to thrive. He was drinking less. He seemed

0:27:15.850 --> 0:27:19.530
<v Speaker 1>to be off the ketamin and the psychedelic mushrooms. He

0:27:19.610 --> 0:27:24.330
<v Speaker 1>took long hikes in the mountains outside Park City. He

0:27:24.370 --> 0:27:29.170
<v Speaker 1>looked fit and healthy, but he wasn't always making sense.

0:27:30.090 --> 0:27:35.290
<v Speaker 1>He asked executives at Zappo's to abolish organizational calendars and

0:27:35.410 --> 0:27:39.930
<v Speaker 1>instead get all employees into a collective state of flow.

0:27:41.090 --> 0:27:44.210
<v Speaker 1>If they were all in the same flow state, he explained,

0:27:44.210 --> 0:27:48.890
<v Speaker 1>they wouldn't need calendars. They just know where and when

0:27:48.930 --> 0:27:52.570
<v Speaker 1>to turn up for meetings. As the lockdown east and

0:27:52.690 --> 0:27:56.690
<v Speaker 1>restaurants reopened, Tony came up with a new idea called

0:27:56.930 --> 0:28:02.770
<v Speaker 1>ten X. Participating restaurants in Park City would give members

0:28:02.770 --> 0:28:06.970
<v Speaker 1>of the ten X scheme unlimited food and drink on Sundays.

0:28:07.610 --> 0:28:11.370
<v Speaker 1>Tony would put the bill. Membership of ten X would

0:28:11.410 --> 0:28:17.250
<v Speaker 1>cost just ten dollars. How could this possibly work for Tony?

0:28:17.690 --> 0:28:21.930
<v Speaker 1>Everyone shrugged. He was a billionaire. He'd probably thought it through.

0:28:23.330 --> 0:28:29.250
<v Speaker 1>Ten became Tony's watchword from his experience in Vegas. Tony

0:28:29.330 --> 0:28:33.050
<v Speaker 1>had drawn the lesson that he hadn't been ambitious enough.

0:28:34.050 --> 0:28:37.890
<v Speaker 1>Everything in Park City would be ten times bigger and

0:28:38.010 --> 0:28:44.210
<v Speaker 1>happened ten times faster. Tony offered members of his entourage

0:28:44.210 --> 0:28:47.050
<v Speaker 1>a ten percent commission for spending his money in the

0:28:47.090 --> 0:28:52.050
<v Speaker 1>ways he asked. He started buying property in Park City.

0:28:53.170 --> 0:28:56.370
<v Speaker 1>Whoever closed the deals for him got ten percent of

0:28:56.410 --> 0:29:00.730
<v Speaker 1>the price. He started recruiting people to join his community,

0:29:01.610 --> 0:29:04.730
<v Speaker 1>offering them a salary to well to do whatever they wanted,

0:29:04.770 --> 0:29:06.890
<v Speaker 1>pretty much as long as they agreed to be happy.

0:29:07.770 --> 0:29:12.210
<v Speaker 1>Whoever recruited these new community members would get ten percent

0:29:12.290 --> 0:29:16.650
<v Speaker 1>of the salary Tony paid them. Tony bought a fleet

0:29:16.650 --> 0:29:20.890
<v Speaker 1>of buses and asked an assistant to arrange a luxury makeover.

0:29:21.810 --> 0:29:27.450
<v Speaker 1>It cost three point six eight million dollars. The assistant

0:29:27.770 --> 0:29:32.610
<v Speaker 1>pocketed three hundred and sixty eight thousand dollars. In June,

0:29:32.730 --> 0:29:35.530
<v Speaker 1>Tony invited some friends to go on a road trip

0:29:35.610 --> 0:29:39.730
<v Speaker 1>in one of his luxury buses. Among them was Tyler Williams,

0:29:40.050 --> 0:29:42.890
<v Speaker 1>who was still living in Las Vegas and working as

0:29:42.890 --> 0:29:48.650
<v Speaker 1>the Zappo's fungineer. When Tyler arrived in Park City, he

0:29:48.730 --> 0:29:51.090
<v Speaker 1>realized that he didn't know many of the people who

0:29:51.170 --> 0:29:55.450
<v Speaker 1>now surrounded Tony. One of them, he learned, had only

0:29:55.530 --> 0:30:00.170
<v Speaker 1>just met Tony and had immediately offered her ten million

0:30:00.330 --> 0:30:05.050
<v Speaker 1>dollars to start a business, any business she liked. Tony

0:30:05.090 --> 0:30:08.330
<v Speaker 1>got on the bus for the road trip wearing pajamas

0:30:08.690 --> 0:30:12.730
<v Speaker 1>and carrying a box of crayons. He took a shower

0:30:13.210 --> 0:30:16.810
<v Speaker 1>and stayed there till the water tank ran dry. He

0:30:16.890 --> 0:30:20.890
<v Speaker 1>explained that they were all trapped in an Ai simulation

0:30:21.490 --> 0:30:24.610
<v Speaker 1>and proposed that he breaked them free by setting fire

0:30:24.690 --> 0:30:29.930
<v Speaker 1>to the bus with everyone inside. Then he asked for

0:30:29.970 --> 0:30:36.930
<v Speaker 1>more mushrooms. After the bus trip, Tyler messaged Tony's dealer.

0:30:38.330 --> 0:30:42.490
<v Speaker 1>Please don't sell Tony more drugs. He wrote, I know

0:30:42.650 --> 0:30:45.770
<v Speaker 1>I can't match whatever Tony is offering, but I'll give

0:30:45.810 --> 0:30:51.530
<v Speaker 1>you everything I have in this life. Tyler's phone pinged

0:30:52.370 --> 0:30:56.090
<v Speaker 1>It was Tony, with a screen grab of Tyler's message

0:30:56.130 --> 0:30:59.210
<v Speaker 1>to the dealer. The dealer had shared it with him.

0:31:00.610 --> 0:31:05.850
<v Speaker 1>You went behind my back, said Tony. Tyler never heard

0:31:05.890 --> 0:31:13.170
<v Speaker 1>from Tony again. In August twenty twenty, Tony invited the

0:31:13.210 --> 0:31:16.810
<v Speaker 1>focusing a duel to visit his ranch in Park City.

0:31:18.370 --> 0:31:21.530
<v Speaker 1>Tony had met Jewel a few years earlier at a

0:31:21.530 --> 0:31:28.050
<v Speaker 1>retreat on the entrepreneur Richard Branson's private island. They'd become friends.

0:31:28.890 --> 0:31:33.610
<v Speaker 1>Jewel found that Tony's ranch was filthy. Old food and

0:31:33.690 --> 0:31:39.050
<v Speaker 1>dog feces littered the floor. Signs said not to clean up.

0:31:39.810 --> 0:31:43.370
<v Speaker 1>Tony thought it was natural to leave trash lying around.

0:31:44.610 --> 0:31:51.170
<v Speaker 1>Candles burned everywhere, dripping wax onto carpets and countertops. Tony

0:31:51.210 --> 0:31:55.770
<v Speaker 1>had become fascinated by fire. All the taps were running

0:31:55.810 --> 0:31:59.490
<v Speaker 1>in all the bathrooms. Tony liked the sound of running water.

0:32:00.730 --> 0:32:04.490
<v Speaker 1>A surfboard was propped up against the window to Tony's room.

0:32:04.970 --> 0:32:11.090
<v Speaker 1>Tony didn't like using doors. Jewel had met some of

0:32:11.210 --> 0:32:15.010
<v Speaker 1>Tony's other friends in Las Vegas, but she didn't recognize

0:32:15.050 --> 0:32:20.490
<v Speaker 1>anyone here. These people were new. Tony's doing great things.

0:32:20.850 --> 0:32:25.610
<v Speaker 1>The new people told her, Tony's going through a creative metamorphosis.

0:32:26.290 --> 0:32:34.450
<v Speaker 1>He's finding himself. Tony's a genius. Jewel found Tony sitting

0:32:34.450 --> 0:32:39.930
<v Speaker 1>in underpants, surrounded by empty canisters of nitrous oxide. He

0:32:40.010 --> 0:32:44.730
<v Speaker 1>looked thin and gaunt. He showed Jewel a post it

0:32:44.850 --> 0:32:49.730
<v Speaker 1>note on which had scribbled some numbers. This, he said,

0:32:51.130 --> 0:32:57.570
<v Speaker 1>is the algorithm for world peace. Jewel tried gently to

0:32:57.650 --> 0:33:00.850
<v Speaker 1>engage Tony in conversation about a project she was working

0:33:00.890 --> 0:33:08.010
<v Speaker 1>on a project about addiction. Tony told her, I'm the

0:33:08.090 --> 0:33:11.490
<v Speaker 1>one percent of people people that can use these substances

0:33:11.530 --> 0:33:16.330
<v Speaker 1>and they become good, they become a skill. He added,

0:33:17.170 --> 0:33:19.970
<v Speaker 1>I've gotten rid of anybody who doubts what I'm doing.

0:33:22.130 --> 0:33:27.570
<v Speaker 1>Jewel began to subtly interrogate everyone on Tony's ranch. What's

0:33:27.610 --> 0:33:32.570
<v Speaker 1>your purpose here? Somebody assumed that Jewel must be after

0:33:32.650 --> 0:33:37.050
<v Speaker 1>Tony's money and helpfully explained how to get it. Just

0:33:37.170 --> 0:33:39.810
<v Speaker 1>write your project and a dollar amount on a post

0:33:39.850 --> 0:33:43.850
<v Speaker 1>it note and ask Tony to sign it. Not too

0:33:43.930 --> 0:33:47.570
<v Speaker 1>much or his lawyers might raise questions. Anything up to

0:33:47.650 --> 0:33:51.970
<v Speaker 1>a couple of millions should be fine. Others took Jewel

0:33:52.010 --> 0:33:55.810
<v Speaker 1>to a quiet corner and whispered, I want to help,

0:33:55.890 --> 0:33:59.250
<v Speaker 1>but I don't know how I saw what happened to

0:33:59.370 --> 0:34:04.650
<v Speaker 1>Ryan and to Tyler. Jewel had agreed to sing some

0:34:04.770 --> 0:34:08.970
<v Speaker 1>of her hit songs for Tony and his guests. Who

0:34:09.330 --> 0:34:14.170
<v Speaker 1>save your soul? She sang, if you won't save your own?

0:34:15.770 --> 0:34:19.010
<v Speaker 1>Tony wasn't there to hear her. He'd stayed in his

0:34:19.210 --> 0:34:27.370
<v Speaker 1>darkened room surrounded by candles. After her visit, Jewel couldn't

0:34:27.370 --> 0:34:30.730
<v Speaker 1>get Tony to return her calls, so she wrote him

0:34:30.730 --> 0:34:34.610
<v Speaker 1>a letter. She addressed it to someone at the ranch

0:34:34.930 --> 0:34:37.410
<v Speaker 1>who she thought would make sure that Tony read it.

0:34:38.690 --> 0:34:45.410
<v Speaker 1>He did. I am going to be blunt, Jewel wrote,

0:34:45.650 --> 0:34:48.610
<v Speaker 1>I don't think you're well and in your right mind.

0:34:49.650 --> 0:34:53.970
<v Speaker 1>The people you're surrounding yourself with are either ignorant or

0:34:54.010 --> 0:34:58.010
<v Speaker 1>willing to be complicit in you killing yourself. If the

0:34:58.050 --> 0:35:01.490
<v Speaker 1>world could see how you're living, they would not see

0:35:01.530 --> 0:35:04.530
<v Speaker 1>you as a tech visionary. They would see you as

0:35:04.570 --> 0:35:09.770
<v Speaker 1>a drug addicted man who's a cliche. Please get it's sober.

0:35:11.010 --> 0:35:15.170
<v Speaker 1>I say this with love and as possibly the only

0:35:15.330 --> 0:35:19.570
<v Speaker 1>person in your circle who is not on your payroll.

0:35:21.690 --> 0:35:24.890
<v Speaker 1>It's a long letter, but Jewel could have summed it

0:35:25.010 --> 0:35:29.490
<v Speaker 1>up in a line, who will save your soul if

0:35:29.570 --> 0:35:39.410
<v Speaker 1>you won't save your own. Tony died three months later

0:35:40.050 --> 0:35:44.850
<v Speaker 1>in November twenty twenty, in a fire. He was forty

0:35:44.850 --> 0:35:51.570
<v Speaker 1>six years old. It's not completely clear what happened. He'd

0:35:51.570 --> 0:35:57.290
<v Speaker 1>locked himself in a shed with nitrous oxide candles, post

0:35:57.330 --> 0:36:01.770
<v Speaker 1>it notes, and a propane heater. By the time the

0:36:01.810 --> 0:36:05.450
<v Speaker 1>fire brigade got the door down, Tony had inhaled too

0:36:05.530 --> 0:36:15.450
<v Speaker 1>much smoke. Tony was killed by his addiction, but also

0:36:15.930 --> 0:36:23.090
<v Speaker 1>by his ideas about community, connectedness and happiness. He'd thought

0:36:23.210 --> 0:36:28.650
<v Speaker 1>he could make a community by gathering entrepreneurs in collisionable spaces.

0:36:29.330 --> 0:36:32.170
<v Speaker 1>Then he'd thought he could pay people to surround him

0:36:32.170 --> 0:36:36.170
<v Speaker 1>in Park City and feel connectedness that would make him happy.

0:36:37.530 --> 0:36:43.330
<v Speaker 1>He hadn't understood that genuine connections arise obliquely. You could

0:36:43.330 --> 0:36:48.170
<v Speaker 1>only put yourself in situations where that might happen and

0:36:48.250 --> 0:36:53.850
<v Speaker 1>recognize if it does. Tony didn't recognize which kind of

0:36:53.890 --> 0:36:57.930
<v Speaker 1>connections to cherish. The kind where you can speak the

0:36:57.970 --> 0:37:02.570
<v Speaker 1>truth and hear the truth. The kind of connections Jody

0:37:02.690 --> 0:37:07.650
<v Speaker 1>Sherman tried to find too late when he emailed other

0:37:07.690 --> 0:37:12.730
<v Speaker 1>founders in Las Vegas. I find myself with no one

0:37:12.770 --> 0:37:15.450
<v Speaker 1>to talk to about the challenges I might be facing,

0:37:17.130 --> 0:37:19.730
<v Speaker 1>or the kind of connection Tyler Williams had with his

0:37:19.850 --> 0:37:24.050
<v Speaker 1>wife when she told him, I don't like who you

0:37:24.170 --> 0:37:27.490
<v Speaker 1>are on Ketamin. You're not the same Tyler that I know.

0:37:28.810 --> 0:37:34.010
<v Speaker 1>And he listened and stopped. She knows who I am,

0:37:34.650 --> 0:37:40.050
<v Speaker 1>Tyler later recalled, and she will check me. Tony had

0:37:40.130 --> 0:37:43.370
<v Speaker 1>people who knew who he was and tried to check

0:37:43.450 --> 0:37:51.570
<v Speaker 1>him like Jewel and Ryan and Tyler himself. Tyler later

0:37:51.650 --> 0:37:54.930
<v Speaker 1>said that he often wonders if he hadn't had that

0:37:54.970 --> 0:38:00.530
<v Speaker 1>connection with his wife, who would I be? Perhaps like

0:38:00.690 --> 0:38:06.730
<v Speaker 1>Tony a drug addicted cliche. We all need someone who

0:38:06.770 --> 0:38:10.330
<v Speaker 1>knows who we are, but they can only save our

0:38:10.450 --> 0:38:23.330
<v Speaker 1>soul if we let them. Key sources for this episode

0:38:23.370 --> 0:38:27.890
<v Speaker 1>were Happy at Any Cost, The Revolutionary Vision and Fatal

0:38:27.970 --> 0:38:32.650
<v Speaker 1>Quest of Zappo's CEO Tony Shay by Katherine Sayre and

0:38:32.770 --> 0:38:38.250
<v Speaker 1>Kurston grind and wander Boy Tony Shay, Zappo's and the

0:38:38.290 --> 0:38:42.130
<v Speaker 1>Myth of Happiness in Silicon Valley by angel O Young

0:38:42.490 --> 0:38:46.570
<v Speaker 1>and David Janes. For a full list of sources, see

0:38:46.570 --> 0:38:51.730
<v Speaker 1>the show notes at Timharford dot com. Cautionary Tales is

0:38:51.770 --> 0:38:55.410
<v Speaker 1>written by me Tim Harford with Andrew Wright, Alice Fines,

0:38:55.690 --> 0:39:00.170
<v Speaker 1>and Ryan Dilley. It's produced by Georgia Mills and Marilyn Rust.

0:39:01.330 --> 0:39:03.650
<v Speaker 1>The sound design and original music are the work of

0:39:03.770 --> 0:39:09.170
<v Speaker 1>Pascal Wise. Bend A. D Afhaffrey edited the scripts. It

0:39:09.250 --> 0:39:13.890
<v Speaker 1>features the voice talents of Melanie Guttridge, Genevieve Gaunt, Stella Harford,

0:39:14.210 --> 0:39:19.930
<v Speaker 1>Messea Munroe, Jamal Westman, and rufus Wright. The show also

0:39:20.010 --> 0:39:22.890
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't have been possible without the work of Jacob Weisberg,

0:39:23.090 --> 0:39:29.370
<v Speaker 1>Greta Cohne, Eric Sandler, Carrie Brody, Christina Sullivan, Kira Posey,

0:39:29.730 --> 0:39:35.050
<v Speaker 1>and Owen Miller. Cautionary Tales is a production of Pushkin Industries.

0:39:35.450 --> 0:39:38.970
<v Speaker 1>If you like the show, please remember to share, rate,

0:39:39.170 --> 0:39:41.770
<v Speaker 1>and review. It really does make a difference to us

0:39:42.450 --> 0:39:45.570
<v Speaker 1>and if you want to hear it, add free and

0:39:45.650 --> 0:39:50.410
<v Speaker 1>receive a bonus audio episode, video episode, and members only

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<v Speaker 1>newsletter every month. Why not join the Cautionary Club. To

0:39:55.570 --> 0:39:59.890
<v Speaker 1>sign up, head to patreon dot com slash Cautionary Club.

0:40:00.010 --> 0:40:03.970
<v Speaker 1>That's Patreon, p A, t R e o N dot

0:40:04.010 --> 0:40:06.930
<v Speaker 1>com Slash Cautionary Club