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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the best of The Doug Gottlieb

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Speaker 1: Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday

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Speaker 1: three to five Eastern twelve two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio.

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Speaker 1: Find your local station for The Doug Gottlieb Show at

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Speaker 1: Foxsports Radio dot com, or stream us live every day

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Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app by searching f as R. What

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Speaker 1: we have a tendency to do and this is where

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Speaker 1: like politics and sports kind of have become one. And

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Speaker 1: it's it's a little sad, but you also just have

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Speaker 1: to take a breath with it. That when the impetus

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Speaker 1: of it was Fox News was brilliant. They would put

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Speaker 1: whoever was the left commentator on the left on the screen,

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Speaker 1: and then like Pat Robertson or somebody who deserved to

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Speaker 1: the right on the right of the screen, and they

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Speaker 1: would argue out And what politics does is it take

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Speaker 1: it'll take outlier things and use them as a narrative, right,

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Speaker 1: use them as a narrative. And I don't necessarily need

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Speaker 1: to go into detail about the topics, but if you

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Speaker 1: think about it, right, you're like, wait, late term abortions,

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Speaker 1: things that don't actually happened often or at all used

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Speaker 1: as a big narrative, just like when you have abuse

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Speaker 1: of citizens on some level. Right, there can be bad

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Speaker 1: actors in any profession and caught on tape. But when

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Speaker 1: you use social media and you use the power of

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Speaker 1: traditional media and you get somebody saying this is what

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Speaker 1: happens all the time when they're taking a real snapshot, right,

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Speaker 1: sports is much the same. I mean, think of Tua

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Speaker 1: Tungo Bailoa, going back a couple of years ago in training,

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Speaker 1: can't remember when the Dolphins would keep putting out time

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Speaker 1: and time again. They would put out videos of Tua

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Speaker 1: throwing the ball deep down the field, remember that, and

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Speaker 1: most of us would sit there and go like, well,

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Speaker 1: that's what are we doing here? Because Tua the arm strength,

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Speaker 1: the ball wobbles, it's just a deep ball in practice

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Speaker 1: when he's not getting hit, he doesn't have to hold

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Speaker 1: on the ball, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So

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Speaker 1: you may be asking yourself, okay, wait, wait, how does

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Speaker 1: Kyen Williams. How's Karen Williams relate to Tua tongue of iyloa?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: How does that work? And I'll tell you very simply.

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Speaker 1: Kyen Williams signs a three year deal, which, as Dan

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Speaker 1: Byer told you at the top of the hour, is

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Speaker 1: really a two year deal at twenty three million dollars guaranteed,

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Speaker 1: which fits right in line with what running backs had

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Speaker 1: been making previous to last offseason. And you kind of

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Speaker 1: go back to the last five years and last year

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Speaker 1: or the last two years. We've been sitting here at

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Speaker 1: this point in time, and I feel like I've been

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Speaker 1: the voice of reasons saying none of that actually matters. Right,

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Speaker 1: No one's given them a third year guaranteed because it's

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Speaker 1: a bad investment and the running back market isn't moving

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Speaker 1: a ton. And what happens. Saquon Barkley has an unbelievable

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Speaker 1: season with the Philadelphia Eagles, unbelievable, and the Eagles, though

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Speaker 1: they didn't have to, they go in there and say, hey,

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Speaker 1: one year in we're going to rework your deal. We're

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Speaker 1: going to make it two more years guaranteed. In other words,

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Speaker 1: it was three years guaranteed. But that's not the deal

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Speaker 1: that he signed. He signed a deal that was on

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Speaker 1: par with all those other deals. Matter of fact, the

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Speaker 1: deal he signed with Eagles was only worth one million

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Speaker 1: dollars more through the life of it than what the

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Speaker 1: Giants were paying him. And this isn't to say that

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Speaker 1: it wasn't brilliant to sign with the Eagles. I've said

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Speaker 1: this before, though he gave away, kicked away all of

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Speaker 1: the Giants reunion stuff, the chance to be in New York,

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Speaker 1: can be a New York Giants running back and be

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Speaker 1: the Tekey bar, the next te Key Barbar, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: This changes to jectory as a football player like nothing

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Speaker 1: else you could think of. He goes from the best

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Speaker 1: player and a bad team to the best player on

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Speaker 1: the best team in football. But the actual contract that

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Speaker 1: he signed wasn't some groundbreaking deal. Derrick Henry's contract wasn't.

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Speaker 1: Josh jacobs contract wasn't some groundbreaking deal. And to all

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Speaker 1: of those like myselves who would tell you that, hey,

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Speaker 1: they more than lived up to that deal in year one,

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Speaker 1: the argument had never been a little bit had been

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Speaker 1: over what the scale was year one, year two, but

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Speaker 1: most of it was are you going to guarantee us

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Speaker 1: that third year? And I brought up the outlier arguments

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Speaker 1: that become narratives, because that's what we're doing with running backs.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna use the outlier of Saquon Barkley and say hey,

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Speaker 1: this is the new model, this is what running backs

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Speaker 1: are worth. And they're like, yeah, well, Karen Williams side

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Speaker 1: a deal that's right in line with all those guys

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Speaker 1: from the previous year. For I'm not telling you to

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Speaker 1: not watch sports on TV or not have these insane

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Speaker 1: sports arguments that people had, But the truth is always

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Speaker 1: closer towards the middle and what it says for what

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Speaker 1: it says for the running back position. And you know,

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Speaker 1: the Buffalo Bills buyer, was it was it you who

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Speaker 1: told me yesterday that the Bills are now the odds

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Speaker 1: on favorite to win the Super Bowl?

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Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, so I was listening and we did it

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Speaker 3: in the press, right.

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Speaker 1: So Dan shared with us that the Buffalo Bills are

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Speaker 1: the favorite to reach the Super Bowl. And now they're

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Speaker 1: currently practicing without their starting running back. Now you could

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Speaker 1: make the argument, you know, they have the starting running back.

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Speaker 1: His name is Josh Allen. He's under understander playing quarterback.

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Speaker 1: But again, all of these arguments are are exactly the

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Speaker 1: same as the ones we've had over the past three years.

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Speaker 1: And so instead of getting caught up in Saquon and

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Speaker 1: what he got and the Eagles ripping up his deal

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Speaker 1: and giving him a contract far above the market. Kyra

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Speaker 1: Williams is telling you where the market is. Three years

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Speaker 1: at thirty three, twenty three guaranteed, and if you're a starting,

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Speaker 1: high caliber, top ten in your craft short of running back,

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Speaker 1: that's about what you should be expecting. That's about what

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Speaker 1: you expect should expect. That's not the rank and file.

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Speaker 1: Rank and files are the guys that are just fighting

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Speaker 1: for a roster spot. There's two or three on every roster,

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Speaker 1: right There's guys that come in you've never heard of before.

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Speaker 1: They do special teams, you know, on passing only situations.

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Speaker 1: They're back there really to block on third down. Like

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Speaker 1: those are the rank and file guys. These are a

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Speaker 1: notch below stars, a notch below stars. Starting running backs.

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Speaker 1: Three years, thirty three, that's right there with what Saquon,

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Speaker 1: Josh Jacobs, all of those guys between nine, eleven, nine

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Speaker 1: and twelve going back last year. It's a slight increase

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Speaker 1: over it in year to year, but reality is it's

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Speaker 1: a two year contract.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Dan seventh amongst running backs in the NFL, and

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Speaker 3: average annual salary.

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Speaker 1: There you go, it's about right, right, and this is

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Speaker 1: from a coach who's been into Super Bowls, won a

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Speaker 1: Super Bowl, seen as the best offensive coach in football,

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Speaker 1: and one who values running the football. But he's not

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Speaker 1: going to overvalue it to where he tips the scale

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Speaker 1: and he can't afford other things. And this is a

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Speaker 1: good contract. So my point is, don't listen to outlier

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Speaker 1: arguments that people want to make into narratives. The running

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Speaker 1: back market has not changed a great deal, nor should it.

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Speaker 1: It's a position that you just can't protect from injury

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Speaker 1: the way you can as much at wide receiver. Definitely,

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Speaker 1: not like quarterback or anything else. You just can't. They

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Speaker 1: have not changed the rules inside the tackles running the football,

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Speaker 1: So it's not necessarily about value. It's about durability. It's

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Speaker 1: about availability and the likelihood that you know, three years

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Speaker 1: after signing a contract, you're still going to be the

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Speaker 1: player or a better version of the player that you

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Speaker 1: are when you sign that contracts. That's a hard argument

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Speaker 1: to make. And again you could say, well, look at

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Speaker 1: Derick Henry. Again, that's an outlier. Dereck Henry is in

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Speaker 1: everybody else, and Derek Henry doesn't really catch it out

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Speaker 1: of the backfield there's other things he doesn't do, but

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Speaker 1: a man he can run downhill. But I'm not trying

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Speaker 1: to question Derrick Henry. I'm telling you that that's again

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Speaker 1: the exception, say Kwon Barkley is the exception. The rule

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Speaker 1: is we're right about there, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, somewhere

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Speaker 1: schmushed in the middle, and you're gonna get two with

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Speaker 1: a little bit in that third year. But I think

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of people who sat there on their

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Speaker 1: couch and saw Josh Jacobs perform incredibly well. Aaron Jones

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Speaker 1: played really really well. You saw Saquon Barkley and Derrick Henry,

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Speaker 1: and you're sitting there going stick that to the man,

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Speaker 1: give those running back quick contracts. And I told you

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Speaker 1: throughout the year, that's great. The argument wasn't oversightning those players.

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Speaker 1: It was over the yearly, but mostly over how many

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Speaker 1: years guaranteed? And everybody's falling back onto everybody's falling back

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Speaker 1: on too.

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Speaker 4: This is the best of the Don dot Leb Show

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Speaker 4: on Fox Sports Radio.

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Speaker 1: It's the Doug gott Lieb Show here on Fox Sports Radio.

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Speaker 1: And the new author of a book, and of course

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Speaker 1: he's written other books, but it's called football done right.

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Speaker 1: It's Michael Lombardi. He joins us on the Doug Gottlieb

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Speaker 1: Show on Fox Sports Radio. And you've basically done everything

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Speaker 1: at the professional level of football, right from being a

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Speaker 1: general manager to being kind of the consingly area you

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Speaker 1: name it, and then of course covering the game periodically

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Speaker 1: throughout the last fifteen or so years, as well as

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Speaker 1: getting back into business now moving to the college side.

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Speaker 1: But it's kind of the professionalization of the college side.

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Speaker 1: What's it like for you.

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Speaker 2: It's been fun, Doug, It's been great. I think you

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Speaker 2: nailed that. It is a professional sport. I mean, look

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Speaker 2: what players are getting paid, which they deserve to get

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Speaker 2: paid because of the revenue that they've generated for the

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Speaker 2: universities across the board and now to help other sports,

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Speaker 2: help and help other sports and also help the institution.

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Speaker 2: But it's been fun, I mean, other than attending an

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Speaker 2: academic meaning my job is pretty much the same as

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Speaker 2: it was working at all the NFL teams. It's salary

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Speaker 2: cap it's team buildings, understanding how to utilize your money

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Speaker 2: that you have available to you and in the best

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Speaker 2: way possible.

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Speaker 1: I think. So what's interesting is obviously your level, you

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Speaker 1: guys are able to break it apart where Coach Belichick

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Speaker 1: does football and you do your the you're the GM, right,

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Speaker 1: So there's there's a separate, a little a slight separation

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Speaker 1: of church and state. My level, I kind of do everything.

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Speaker 1: We We hired a hire, we have a GM who's

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Speaker 1: a former player who's going to help us. But it's

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Speaker 1: not to the level that that you're doing. So I

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Speaker 1: guess here's the first question that all guys ask them,

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Speaker 1: we all ask each other, is are you are you

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Speaker 1: tearing it or are you going after certain guys and

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Speaker 1: being like, what what is your what's the general plan

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Speaker 1: for how you guys do what you do within the

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Speaker 1: scope of your salary structure.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean everything about the job that I have

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Speaker 2: is the same as the job in professional football. You

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Speaker 2: have to grade the players accurately to then determine how

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Speaker 2: much you tell them. You know, the NFL draft is

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Speaker 2: all about how much money. It's all money the NFL draft.

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Speaker 2: If you get picked the first pick in the second round,

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Speaker 2: you make X. If you get picked the last pick

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Speaker 2: in the seventh round, you make why. And that why

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Speaker 2: in that X has to be equated to a description

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Speaker 2: this player will come in and start immediately. He'll make

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Speaker 2: a huge impact on the team, and he'll be All

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Speaker 2: conference or whatever. Whatever the description is. That translates into

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Speaker 2: how much you should pay the player. Where you get

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Speaker 2: in trouble is when you have a guy you grade

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Speaker 2: as a backup player and you pay him like a starter.

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Speaker 2: That's when you get in trouble. So the first thing

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Speaker 2: you have to do is put together a grading system

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Speaker 2: that allows you to accurately grade the players.

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Speaker 1: Do you use analytic companies or do you use your

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Speaker 1: own grading system in your own film breakdown?

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Speaker 2: No, we use our own system. I mean, football is

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Speaker 2: different than baseball. We're not as analytical as we have

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Speaker 2: some elements of analytics. But I mean, look, you know

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Speaker 2: if analytics breaks down a game, do they tell you

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Speaker 2: who's on the field? Right? I Mean it's easy to say,

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Speaker 2: you know, get into a level and personnel and throw

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Speaker 2: the ball. It's the best. But if Reggie White's the

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Speaker 2: right end and the left end and you're the right

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Speaker 2: tackle can't block anybody, do you really want to throw

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Speaker 2: the ball? I mean that's the fundamental question, right. It's

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Speaker 2: all about how the players intertwine with the plays. Do

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Speaker 2: I think it's important to have some form of analytics,

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Speaker 2: of course, but to sit there and think that you

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Speaker 2: can carry the load with analytics, it's a little bit

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Speaker 2: naive in the sense that you just do you have

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Speaker 2: to know who's on the field. Do you have to

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Speaker 2: judge the players? Right? You want to go after Rod Woodson,

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Speaker 2: who I wrote about football done Right? Good? Go after them?

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Speaker 2: Everybody did? They double moved them early in the game

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Speaker 2: because after that you weren't going to get another play

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Speaker 2: on them. So it's about how to incorporate plays and players.

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Speaker 1: In the new book Football Done Right? Did you when

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Speaker 1: you started it? Because I mean, look, anybody's written a

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Speaker 1: book or thought about writing a book knows it takes

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Speaker 1: a while. When you started, though, your your job and

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Speaker 1: your job description was completely differ, right. Was there any

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Speaker 1: thought of college football when you started putting pin of paper?

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Speaker 2: Oh no, no, not at all. I didn't think I

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Speaker 2: would get back into the team side of it, you know,

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Speaker 2: having worked in the NFL, and when you get older.

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Speaker 2: In the NFL, he required to make too much money

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Speaker 2: and nobody wants to pay so, you know, I felt

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Speaker 2: like I had a good job working on the media side,

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Speaker 2: and I was enjoying that. And I love writing books.

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Speaker 2: I mean, my first book, wrid O Genus has sold

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Speaker 2: really well. In this book here gave me a lot

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Speaker 2: of pleasure to write. In fact, I felt really on

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Speaker 2: this past weekend. I felt vindicated because one of the

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Speaker 2: major themes of the book was why Sterling Sharp wasn't

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Speaker 2: in the NFL. It's the reason I really one of

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Speaker 2: the reasons why I started to write the book was

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Speaker 2: the injustice given a Sharp and look what happened. He

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Speaker 2: got in the NFL. Not because of my book, but

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Speaker 2: people became aware of the injustice. You know, he said

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Speaker 2: he didn't play long enough, well even to Terrell Davis,

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Speaker 2: either to Tony Basselli. But so one of the rules,

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Speaker 2: you know what is long enough? And I think that's

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Speaker 2: why I wrote it and I enjoyed it.

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Speaker 1: What about coach Belichick, you know, he again at least

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Speaker 1: what we were told was man, he really valued intelligence

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Speaker 1: right in the players that you guys drafted. You go

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Speaker 1: back to your days with the Patriots. How has he

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Speaker 1: adjusted to even smart college troll players hail in comparison

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Speaker 1: to the level of football intelligence he's used to dealing with.

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Speaker 1: What's this process been like in terms of trying to

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Speaker 1: evaluate and trying to coach players of different levels of

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Speaker 1: football intelligence.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, every football team, whether you're in high school,

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Speaker 2: whether you're in college or pro, you become who you

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Speaker 2: want to be. And everybody here knows we're looking for smart, tough,

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Speaker 2: and dependable players. And when you walk in the building,

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Speaker 2: that's the first thing everybody he could hit with. We

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Speaker 2: want smart, tough, independable, and if you're not smart, tough

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Speaker 2: and dependentle, you won't be on our team. So that's

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Speaker 2: what he wants, and that's the kind of player that

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Speaker 2: we're trying to build within the framework of the team.

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Speaker 2: You know, football teams become who they want to be.

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Speaker 2: If you want a fat team, you'll sign fat players.

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Speaker 2: If you want a skinny you'll sign skinning players. Right, Well,

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Speaker 2: we want smart, tough, and dependable, which if we if

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Speaker 2: they're smart, tough, independent, and they're self aware, we'll make

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Speaker 2: them better players, will allow them to grow and develop.

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Speaker 1: In football. Then right, you talked about Sterling Sharp, who

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Speaker 1: got in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: does that does Terrell Davis Sterling Sharp, Tony Bisselli? Does

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Speaker 1: that open the door for even a priest. Holmes right,

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Speaker 1: very short career, but very dominant in that short period time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think he deserves I think part

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Speaker 2: of what I wanted to do and why. If you

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Speaker 2: go to the back of the book, you know I

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Speaker 2: wrote I wrote why I wrote the book. And you know,

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Speaker 2: if you ever watch Larry David Curb your enthusiasm, he

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Speaker 2: had an episode called the Middler where whoever sits at

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Speaker 2: the middle of a table at a dinner party is

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Speaker 2: responsible to stir up conversation. I think that's a really

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Speaker 2: good conversation to have. You know, what is the criteria?

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Speaker 2: I think every position should have a criteria. I put

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Speaker 2: a criteria in there for coaches so we could stop

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Speaker 2: the debate is this guy a good player? See, it's

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Speaker 2: just no different than a grading system in football. If

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Speaker 2: you don't have a system, everybody just argues back and

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Speaker 2: forth whether the guy's good enough. When you have a

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Speaker 2: system that describes what the player with the qualifications that

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Speaker 2: must be meant to get into the club, there's no

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Speaker 2: more debate. You know. For example, Marty Schottenhammer has won

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Speaker 2: two hundred games in his NFL coaching career, two hundred.

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Speaker 2: There's only nine people that have coached out of the

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Speaker 2: five hundred plus people that have called themselves head coach

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Speaker 2: that have achieved that level of success, one out of

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Speaker 2: five hundred and nine out of five hundred and seventy five.

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Speaker 2: And he's not in the Hall of Fame. If you're

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Speaker 2: in that exclusive club, don't you think you belong in

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Speaker 2: the Hall of Fame. Yeah, there shouldn't be a debate.

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Speaker 2: He should be automatic. Just admitted. It shouldn't come to

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Speaker 2: a vote. But he well, he has not won a

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Speaker 2: super Bowl. Okay, Marv Lee, he didn't win a super Bowl. Well,

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Speaker 2: he didn't get to a super Bowl. Well, George Allen

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Speaker 2: went to one super Bowl. You know, the only coach

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Speaker 2: ten years. He had a seventy percent winning percentage. He

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Speaker 2: lost at fourteen to seven to the Miami Dolphins in

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Speaker 2: the undefeated season. But he's in the Hall of Fame.

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Speaker 2: I mean, so, like, what is if there's no criteria,

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Speaker 2: all that happens is it becomes an argument.

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Speaker 1: Yep, pretty much right. It's it's like the Constitution. We

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Speaker 1: picked the ones that we picked, the things we like, don't.

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Speaker 1: We try to diminish the things we don't. We do

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Speaker 1: the same with the Bible, and we do the same

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Speaker 1: thing with with arbitrary sports arguments, where we'll leave things

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Speaker 1: out because it doesn't support an argument.

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Speaker 2: Right. And if somebody has as well as one favor

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Speaker 2: with the media and they the media like them, they'll

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Speaker 2: push the player to get into the Hall of Fame.

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Speaker 2: You know, they'll want the guy. I mean that was

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Speaker 2: the point. You know, certain guys got pushed and they

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Speaker 2: deserve to go in the Hall of Fame. Maybe they did,

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Speaker 2: maybe they didn't, but there should be an order, you know,

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Speaker 2: Mike Homegren's want you know, he belows Mike Shanahan. We

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Speaker 2: would have what would have the zone outside run play

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Speaker 2: one of one of the major injustices, Clark Shaughnessy. We

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Speaker 2: wouldn't have a forward pass if it wasn't for Clark Shaughnessy.

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Speaker 2: But yet we can't. Clark Shaughnessy's not in the Hall

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Speaker 2: of Fame.

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Speaker 1: How does Aaron Rodgers do in Pittsburgh.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know enough about about how he looks,

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Speaker 2: and I haven't paid any attention to the NFL to

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Speaker 2: really say, but I think Arthur Smith's are a really

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Speaker 2: good coach. I think Mike Comlins a really good coach,

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Speaker 2: And I think if he follows the program, you know,

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Speaker 2: the program. One player is not going to win for you.

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Speaker 2: It's going to be the program. And I think if

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Speaker 2: he follows the program, that will really help.

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Speaker 1: Last thing, I know, you got to in the NFL,

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Speaker 1: I've been told the hit rate for free and C

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Speaker 1: is like thirty three percent. Right, what do you think

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00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:59,240
Speaker 1: a reasonable hit rate in year one for you would

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Speaker 1: be at North Carolina? In it? You mean for recruiting, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: in terms of evaluate guys achieving what you thought they

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Speaker 1: would achieve.

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Speaker 2: When you're well, I mean we have seventy new players

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Speaker 2: on the team. Does it's hard. It's a completely new team.

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Speaker 2: I think to me, it's about one day at a time.

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Speaker 2: We've got to build it. We're building a culture. I mean,

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Speaker 2: that's the most important thing. When you walk into this building,

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Speaker 2: you'll feel a culture, you know, and that's what more

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Speaker 2: is the most important element of what we're doing. Once

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Speaker 2: you build a culture, then all of a sudden you've

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Speaker 2: developed multipliers, you know, multiple you know what multipliers are

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00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:37,520
Speaker 2: players of course, multiplayers, and so that's that's what we're doing.

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Speaker 2: And so that takes time, but it's also worthwhile.

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Speaker 1: It is worthwhile, so is picking up this book. It's

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Speaker 1: called Football Done Right. You can pick up his other

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Speaker 1: book as well, it's outher by Michael Lombardi. Course works

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Speaker 1: for North Carolina football. He's kind of to spend some

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Speaker 1: time this picked up Football Done Right. Mike, thanks so

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Speaker 1: much for joining us. I know you're busy. Really appreciate

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Speaker 1: your time.

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Speaker 2: I appreciate you.

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Speaker 4: By Fox Sports Radio had the best sport talk lineup

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00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,600
Speaker 4: in the nation. Catch all of our shows at foxsports

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Speaker 4: Radio dot com and within the iHeartRadio app.

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Speaker 1: What about you don got leap show Fox Sports Radio

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app. Welcome, Welcome in Man. We just over talked

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00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:18,879
Speaker 1: on that amusement park ride and Dan Byer had some

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00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:23,399
Speaker 1: great other stuff on his on his rank order sheet.

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Speaker 1: We might need to get to that. Be sure to

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Speaker 1: subscribe to our Fox Sports Radio YouTube channel. Just search

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00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:32,240
Speaker 1: Fox Sports Radio on YouTube and you'll see the best

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Speaker 1: videos from our show. After you subscribe to Fox Sports

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00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:38,639
Speaker 1: Trading YouTube, click the bell icon on the homepage and

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00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,800
Speaker 1: turn on all notifications so you have easy access to

401
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:52,800
Speaker 1: our very best videos. So this is a this is

402
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:57,840
Speaker 1: a personal thing that I despise and I don't really

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00:21:57,840 --> 00:21:59,199
Speaker 1: know what to do about it. So just let's just

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00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:03,359
Speaker 1: talk about it. There are always going to be people

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00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:09,360
Speaker 1: that insist somehow Shador Sanders was done wrong by the world, right,

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00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,600
Speaker 1: and we've I don't need to, We don't need to

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00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,240
Speaker 1: relitigate the Shador Sanders and where he was drafted thing.

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00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:20,960
Speaker 1: You know, it's super interesting. I mean, probably the best

409
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Speaker 1: thing to happen to us in the NBA draft sadly

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00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:28,679
Speaker 1: happened to uh, Bronnie James, was Bronnie had the heart issue,

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Speaker 1: because otherwise there would have been some people who do

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00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,200
Speaker 1: rankings that will be like, hey, Bronnie James top ten

413
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:41,520
Speaker 1: prospect on I think Jonathan Gavoni's list, and he should

414
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Speaker 1: go because Bronnie James had the heart issue. Forget about

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Speaker 1: the fact that he didn't start when he was at

416
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:50,240
Speaker 1: se They didn't have a good year, he didn't have

417
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 1: particularly good year because he had the heart issue. Was

418
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:55,439
Speaker 1: like he wasn't gonna have a good year anyway. So

419
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,879
Speaker 1: you know, second round picks about right, and we all

420
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 1: knew when the Lakers were picking, and that's where about

421
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 1: he would go. And so what there wasn't this So

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00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:12,120
Speaker 1: the celebrity Dad Draftee is definitely a thing, right, definitely

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00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:16,400
Speaker 1: a thing. So I'm not going to relitigate where Shouduur

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00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,239
Speaker 1: should have gone. It's just really important to understand there

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00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 1: are thirty two NFL teams and we went through two

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00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 1: days of drafting and he had not been selected. They

427
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,679
Speaker 1: had plenty of time, so it wasn't and there was

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00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 1: no collusion. There's just everybody involved was like, she's just

429
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 1: not good enough considering you know, the pressure you're going

430
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:43,359
Speaker 1: to get to play him, and the talent that he

431
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:44,960
Speaker 1: may or may not have, and then the way which

432
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 1: she carries himself. So he's at fourth on the depth

433
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:53,440
Speaker 1: chart with the Browns. And I'll be honest, Dylan Gabriel,

434
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 1: who was drafted around ahead of him, I've never been

435
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,959
Speaker 1: I've never watched Dylan Gabriel play at Florida or at

436
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 1: Oklahoma and be like, you know what, that's an NFL quarterback.

437
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 1: But he was drafted ahead of Shador and so he's

438
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 1: gonna get kind of right. A first refusal. Here's Shador

439
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,439
Speaker 1: Sanders when he was asked what we should expect from

440
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 1: him in his first NFL preseason game.

441
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:20,120
Speaker 5: Have you watched me at Collins?

442
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:23,119
Speaker 1: But you know a little bit of that going on.

443
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 4: I'm still the same guy, you know, I don't nothing

444
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 4: happened to me.

445
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, and look, I think it's a good quarterback, a

446
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 1: definitely good college quarterback. But you know, it's it's gonna

447
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:43,640
Speaker 1: be interesting. And I saw Robert Griffin third, who now

448
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 1: works for us at Fox, talking about how he's been

449
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 1: done wrong by the Browns and it's gonna make people

450
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 1: pay for such little reps in the he's the fourth quarterback.

451
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:54,399
Speaker 1: What did you expect in terms of number of reps?

452
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 1: Volumes of reps? And we're going to hyper focus on

453
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,160
Speaker 1: his performance in his first preseason game, and if if

454
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,360
Speaker 1: he has good numbers, we're going to say it's really good,

455
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 1: no matter if it was the right reads or how

456
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 1: average the defense or talent that he's going against was.

457
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 1: But there is nothing abnormal about your second quarterback drafted

458
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 1: being fourth in the depth chart when you have two

459
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,200
Speaker 1: previous NFL starters and a guy drafted ahead of him,

460
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:22,480
Speaker 1: ahead of him on the on the you know, in

461
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 1: the pecking order. But my private frustration is over people

462
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:35,679
Speaker 1: that cherry picks stats from the Internet and make a

463
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,159
Speaker 1: statement about who played well in a practice where you

464
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 1: have zero idea, what they were trying to accomplish, where

465
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 1: they were going against, or what it looked like zero.

466
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: What do I think happens? I think Flacco starts. I

467
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,160
Speaker 1: think at some point Kenny Picken, Kenny Pickett gets a shot.

468
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 1: I think they have to hold on to Dylan Gabriel.

469
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 1: I think they might carry they might carry four. Remember

470
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 1: they still have Deshaun Watson under contract. He just tores

471
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:09,199
Speaker 1: Achilles ten in twice. So you know, I don't know

472
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 1: if they do they would you drop by Kenny Pickett

473
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:15,200
Speaker 1: who's started in the NFL for a couple of years

474
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 1: over a Dylan Gabriel and a Shdore Sanders knowing that

475
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 1: next year's Brown's quarterback probably isn't on the roster, probably

476
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:29,239
Speaker 1: isn't on the roster. Byra how do you think? How

477
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 1: do you think this turns out? I mean, and by

478
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 1: the way, the I Once Reflex podcast is dance podcast.

479
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 1: It's awesome if you need fantasy information to get your

480
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 1: draft coming up as well, give me your best guess.

481
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:42,399
Speaker 1: We don't know who gets hurt. We don't know how

482
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 1: it works. I do think that that Flacco somewhere early

483
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 1: to mid season gets pulled I think Kenny Pickett gets

484
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: a shot. I'm guessing they find a way to carry

485
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 1: three or four. I just don't know if Shore Sanders

486
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:55,879
Speaker 1: is one of those guys.

487
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, And just to backtrack a little, like we believe

488
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:01,679
Speaker 3: that Kenny at one point was number one and Joe

489
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,440
Speaker 3: Flacco is number two. Then Pikett gets injured and now

490
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 3: the depth chart comes out and Flacco is number one

491
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,440
Speaker 3: on that. I think they really wanted to see what

492
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 3: Kenny Pickett had for whatever reason, and I think that's

493
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 3: why he was going to get the opportunity up until

494
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 3: this hamstring issue that he's been dealing with. The bottom half,

495
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 3: Doug is the part where it's changed for me, because

496
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 3: I do think in the last forty eight hours there

497
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 3: is a scenario where Shador Sanders doesn't make this team.

498
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 3: And the only reason I say that is because I

499
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 3: feel that if you are Andrew Berry and you're Kevin Stefanski,

500
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:42,440
Speaker 3: the way that you can take your control back, or

501
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 3: at least some of the power back, and it may

502
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,120
Speaker 3: fly in the face of what the Haslms wanted. Even

503
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 3: if Jimmy Haslm said it was Andrew Berry's decision, it's

504
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,679
Speaker 3: still a fifth round pick and they have been cut before,

505
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,400
Speaker 3: and the fifth round picks have not made rosters before.

506
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 3: So if you're the Cleveland Browns and you feel that

507
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 3: you have something this season, then maybe Shudour doesn't make it.

508
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,920
Speaker 3: That's entered into my mind over these last couple of

509
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,719
Speaker 3: days because I just don't know. I don't know who

510
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 3: else would want Kenny Pickett. I don't understand the signing

511
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 3: of Flacco and Picket. If you're gonna deal one of

512
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 3: them like that doesn't make much sense to me. So

513
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 3: just the fact of Shador not getting reps with the

514
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 3: the Ones for a decent amount of training camp or

515
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,880
Speaker 3: against the number one defense, that's that kind of brought

516
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 3: into the equation. All right, Well, maybe the Browns don't

517
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 3: have a future with shaudor Sanders.

518
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 1: I can tell you one thing. I know Jase two

519
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 1: so badly once I'm on that team as third string quarterback,

520
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 1: because Jason likes storylines, and that's a great storyline.

521
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 5: Accurate, Jason, are you trying to represent me as a

522
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 5: person that loves great storylines?

523
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 2: Yeah?

524
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, no, I love them.

525
00:28:56,160 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, And Shadur being like the third string quiquarterback is

526
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 1: exactly what we need. Exactly what he because then you're

527
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 1: gonna have a portion of people literally hoping that Joe

528
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: Flacco's terrible and whoever replaced him also terrible, and that

529
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 1: Chador comes in riding the white horse and saves the day.

530
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 3: With the By the way, just a side note with

531
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 3: the Browns on that storyline, and then we can bring

532
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 3: it back. Remember they traded down from two to five yep,

533
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 3: and picked up Jacksonville's first round pick next year. And again,

534
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 3: what could be a great quarterback draft? You right now

535
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 3: don't have your second round pick sign because of a

536
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 3: domestic violence arrest. Has it been the greatest of off

537
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 3: seasons for the Brons in that regard? Like, there's gonna

538
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 3: be a point where you're gonna start looking towards the

539
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 3: future and Dylan Gabriel's future may not even be as

540
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 3: part of the cards and you use the third round

541
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 3: pick on him. So they do the deal with Jacksonville

542
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 3: getting a first round or next year. But you look

543
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 3: back at what they've done just in since this draft,

544
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 3: and it's been I know, the Judkins thing isn't their fault,

545
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 3: but it's better.

546
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 1: How's it not their fault?

547
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 2: Well?

548
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 3: Well, just I mean I don't think that there were

549
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 3: any there was anything behind quinch On Judkins.

550
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 2: Uh.

551
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 3: I don't know how they would be at fault and not.

552
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: Necessarily at fault. I mean, but listen, I can you

553
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 1: know and we don't know, and I don't know what

554
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: the background looks like, but I can tell you that

555
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 1: it's you got to pay a lot of attention to it.

556
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: It's it's just about everything is what kind of person

557
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 1: we deal with here, so and it you know, it's

558
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 1: early on. Hopefully it's nothing. Hopefully that it's a it's

559
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,479
Speaker 1: an overreaction. I don't know. I don't know enough about it.

560
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: I don't want any any woman to ever be abused

561
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 1: by a man ever. But yeah, I mean, and.

562
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 3: That happened after they drafted him.

563
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: Though no I know, but it's still part of you know,

564
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 1: I don't Again, I didn't do the background research. I'm

565
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 1: just saying. And Deshaun Watson, by the way, if you

566
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 1: went to his background when he was coming out of college,

567
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 1: people thought he was a saint. So they can't fool you.

568
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 1: Absolutely can fool you. But you're right, You're right, Dan.

569
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 1: I mean, like your second round pick's got a DV

570
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 1: and your third round pick looks like he's a high

571
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 1: school quarterback. Yeah right, and you're like and yeah, and

572
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 1: now you got Schador Sanders, and what if shed Door

573
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: Sanders is decent? Then you're like, well, we want to

574
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 1: we did this whole thing so we could take an

575
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 1: elite quarterback next year. And this happens.

576
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 5: As good as a storyline. It will be if he's

577
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 5: on the roster. I think the great twenty four hour

578
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 5: news cycle when he if he's ever cut by the Browns, yeah,

579
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 5: I think that would be the end of mel Kiper.

580
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 1: He will be if he gets cut, he will be

581
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 1: the Coln Kaepernick of this season. Somebody's playing poorly. It's like,

582
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 1: you know, they should call they should call Shador Sanders, right.

583
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 1: I mean like there's Kirk Cousins is available and Shadoor

584
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 1: Sanders is available, and there will be people that will

585
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: say the two are the same thing. Well, you know,

586
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 1: Kirk Cousins, he's older, he's got that achilles. I'd rather

587
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 1: have Shador Sanders. I'm telling you right now, he's the

588
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 1: next Kaepernick. By say Kaepernick, I'm not talking about polarizing protesting.

589
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 1: I'm talking about how that became kind of like the

590
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: go to for people who don't know anything about football,

591
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 1: and just the last how many years is the Kaepernick think?

592
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 1: Was it thirteen? Was last year he played?

593
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 2: Right?

594
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 1: But it's been like the last I don't know, six

595
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 1: seven years where people have people go like, you know,

596
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 1: they should call Colin Kaepernick. Now they're going to say,

597
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 1: you know what they should call Schadoor Sanders. I'll tell

598
00:32:58,160 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 1: you what. I take a look at your door stand.

599
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 1: Even if he couldn't beat out Kenny Pickett, Old, Joe

600
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 1: Flacco and Dylan Gabriel, You Jay Stu searches for content

601
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 1: and conflict, right and the opposite of whatever BS is,

602
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 1: right Danielle all three, I think I did.

603
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 5: Yep, and I think that there's but I do think

604
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 5: that mel Kuiper would cease to exist. And I'm not

605
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 5: talking about our you know, as a NFL draft analyst.

606
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 5: I think he would have a heart attack. He has

607
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 5: so much in the Shaduur Sanders easter basket that he

608
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 5: if he was cut by an NFL team, that means

609
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 5: that he wasn't a top five overall pick in the draft,

610
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 5: which mel Kuiper screamed. He was through the draft, through

611
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 5: the draft from the very beginning of his draft analysis.

612
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 5: Through the third day of the draft, mel Kuiper was

613
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 5: telling us that Shadueur Sanders is a top five pick.

614
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't see it, and he would have to

615
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 1: be Tom Brady, which you know, I thought. I read

616
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 1: an article yesterday which was interesting, which is I didn't

617
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 1: know how much Tom Brady was involved with the Raiders,

618
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 1: but he was involved obviously with the Raiders. Where now

619
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 1: he's on the field at practice at training camp with

620
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,840
Speaker 1: a Raider's shirt on, and he had worked with Shador

621
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 1: and yet the Raiders took drafted other quarterbacks. You know,

622
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 1: it had plenty of opportunities to draft him, which sounds like, yeah,

623
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 1: he worked with stories like yeah, no thanks, no thanks.

624
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 1: Even that answer, while there's nothing wrong with the answer,

625
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 1: you saw me in college, right, Well that's kind of

626
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 1: a loaded thing, right, Yeah, we saw you in college.

627
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 1: I mean, you guys were thirteen and twelve in college,

628
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:58,399
Speaker 1: high completion percentage, you had Travis Hunter, but you know

629
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 1: you held on the ball a little bit too much.

630
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,479
Speaker 1: You saw me in college, right, I'm the same guy. Well,

631
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 1: this is a little bit higher level of competition. Again,

632
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 1: nothing wrong with the answer, it's not like you can

633
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:12,760
Speaker 1: sit there and go like this is the wrong answer

634
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:14,400
Speaker 1: for it, but it's not the right answer