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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A poison plot.

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Speaker 2: Did a cheating paramedic poison his wife and his little

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Speaker 2: daughter just ten years old? With eyedrops motive a nearly

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Speaker 2: quarter million dollar life insurance payout. I'm Nancy Grace. This

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Speaker 2: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 3: A paramedic comes home from a walk to find his

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Speaker 3: wife slumped over the side of their couch. Then he

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Speaker 3: says he was working on the computer when he noticed

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Speaker 3: her slumped over. Why the changing stories.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I believe I would notice exactly when I observed

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Speaker 2: my husband slumped over.

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Speaker 1: Guys with me an all star panel.

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Speaker 2: But first I'm going to go straight out to investigative

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Speaker 2: reporter with Queens City News GESSS dot com Derek Dellinger. Derek,

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Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. Okay, I want to

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Speaker 2: take this very very slowly so I can make sure

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Speaker 2: I understand the facts. The day that the wife was

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Speaker 2: observed slumping over, and I'm talking about thirty two year

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Speaker 2: old Stacy Hansucker, Explain to me what happened leading up

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Speaker 2: to the nine to one one call.

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Speaker 4: Well, what happened leading up to ninety one one call

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Speaker 4: is something that we've been working on at least over

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Speaker 4: the last several years with this case. What we can

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Speaker 4: tell you, though, is, excuse.

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Speaker 2: Me, Derek, excuse me, excuse me, yes, Derek, yes. You know,

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Speaker 2: when I put people on the witness stand and I

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Speaker 2: ask a direct question, I expect to direct answer.

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Speaker 1: But let me understand what you just said.

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Speaker 2: Is it not clear, and you've been investigating this for

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Speaker 2: some time, is it not clear what led up to

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Speaker 2: the husband seeing the wife stay slumped over? Because you know,

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Speaker 2: in my world, I say, hey, when did you see

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Speaker 2: your wife slumped over? And the husband would say, right

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Speaker 2: when I got back from jogging, I saw her. So

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Speaker 2: even now the water is muddy. Okay, all right, start

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Speaker 2: at the top again.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry.

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Speaker 2: I just had to understand that we don't really know.

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Speaker 2: I've got a problem with that.

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Speaker 1: Go ahead.

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Speaker 4: That's something that we've still been trying to figure out

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Speaker 4: over the last five or six years associated with this case.

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Speaker 4: The thing about it is, though, is that we know,

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Speaker 4: at least leading up to some of what was happening here,

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Speaker 4: that there was some sort of heart issue that Stacy

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Speaker 4: Huntsucker had. The heart issue still unclear as to what

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Speaker 4: exactly was going on. We know that she was having

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Speaker 4: some issues trying to get around, she was having some lightheadness,

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Speaker 4: but the fact that she was found slumped over there

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Speaker 4: was a sign of something that was going wrong and

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Speaker 4: that eventually led to her eventual death as a result,

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Speaker 4: At least at the time, it was considered the death

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Speaker 4: of a heart attack.

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Speaker 1: Hold on with me right now.

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Speaker 2: A renowned medical examiner, toxicologist, pathologist of your treatment expert.

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Speaker 2: He's the author of American Narcan and he certainly put

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Speaker 2: his money where his mouth is creating a mobile unit

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Speaker 2: to travel the country fighting opioid addiction. I'm talking about

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Speaker 2: none other than doctor William Moroney.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Moroney, thank.

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Speaker 2: You for joining us in between all the autopsies and

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Speaker 2: other work you're doing. Doctor Moroney, I understand from my

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Speaker 2: own investigation that Stacy had developed.

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Speaker 1: Some sort of a heart issue.

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Speaker 2: I've been told after the birth of one of her daughters.

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Speaker 2: What could that have been, because it had not manifested

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Speaker 2: prior to delivering one of the daughters.

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Speaker 5: If it was real, if it was real pathology, it

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Speaker 5: could have been an atrial fibrillation that's irregular, irregular, irregular.

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Speaker 6: Heartbeats, or it could have been anything that.

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Speaker 5: Caused her to lose consciousness that lowered her blood pressure

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Speaker 5: if it was natural, But if she was poisoned, then

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Speaker 5: it's the medicine or the drug that made her feel

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Speaker 5: this way, and eventually the drug gave.

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Speaker 6: Her the heart attack.

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Speaker 5: And that's what everybody's really focused on here, is that

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Speaker 5: this man poisoned her. So can you tell a difference

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Speaker 5: between a poisoned heart, a heart attack, or some manifestation

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Speaker 5: after birth? The most common thing after birth is some

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Speaker 5: women have thyroid problems because the thyroid explodes and kicks

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Speaker 5: in and it gets on steroids and it grows to

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Speaker 5: compensate for the birth of the baby, and then after

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Speaker 5: the delivery, the thyroid has to shrink. The thyroid is

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Speaker 5: in control of the heart.

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Speaker 2: Dr Maroney, Wait a minute, you've just told me so

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Speaker 2: many things I don't know. I didn't know that happens

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Speaker 2: every time I talk to you. So you just said

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Speaker 2: the thyroid controls the heart. Did you just say that?

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Speaker 5: Yes, how the thyroid, It makes the heart beat faster, stronger, slower,

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Speaker 5: It controls all the metabolism in the heart, and after birth,

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Speaker 5: it's very common before forty years old that women that

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Speaker 5: have multiple babies have thyroid problems, and we can see

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Speaker 5: that maybe twenty percent, twenty five percent, but there's underlying

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Speaker 5: pathology in the heart that you can say, well, her

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Speaker 5: mother had this problem, her aunt had this problem, her sister,

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Speaker 5: so you.

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Speaker 6: Know it's coming. So it's really not a surprise.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Browney.

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Speaker 2: I'm seeing a picture of her, this beautiful young bride,

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Speaker 2: just thirty two years old, to gorgeous daughters, Piper and Willow.

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Speaker 1: She's thirty two, she was running a race.

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Speaker 2: How does she have a heart problem and she's an athlete,

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Speaker 2: you know. Okay, I'm having a horror flashback to everybody

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Speaker 2: knows about Caltmam Laurie Valo and the so called prophet

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Speaker 2: husband of hers, Chad day Bel his wife, who was

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Speaker 2: healthy as a horse, would run marathons, you name it,

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Speaker 2: and then killed over in the middle of the night

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Speaker 2: from what a heart attack? Okay, this is giving me

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Speaker 2: de ja vous, But Tammy day Bell is for another day.

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Speaker 2: Let me get back to Stacy Hunsucker. So you're saying,

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Speaker 2: doctor William Marony that it could be a heart problem

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Speaker 2: that often occurs when women give birth and it affects

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Speaker 2: their thyroid. THYROI control's heart, But let me ask you.

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Speaker 2: This is a yes no, Doctor William Marony. If she

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Speaker 2: had been administered some type of poison, you are saying

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Speaker 2: that that poison could have also caused a heart attack.

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Speaker 1: That's a yes no.

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Speaker 6: Yes, it looks the same exactly.

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Speaker 1: I knew you couldn't do it in one word.

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Speaker 2: Okay, but what you just said absolutely correct. It looks

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Speaker 2: just the same as you're hearing, doctor William Maroney, joining

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Speaker 2: US medical examiner and toxicologists pathologist as well, listen to this.

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Speaker 7: Joshua Hunsucker calls nine to one one when he finds

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Speaker 7: his wife Stacy, unconscious, slumped over the arm of their couch.

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Speaker 7: Even though the thirty two year old is rushed to

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Speaker 7: the hospital, Stacy dies of what looks like a heart attack.

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Speaker 7: Stacy Huntsucker did have a history of heart issues and

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Speaker 7: used a pacemaker since she was hospitalized after the birth

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Speaker 7: of their second daughter.

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Speaker 2: Does that shed any line on it, doctor William Maroney,

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Speaker 2: The fact that she was using a pacemaker since the

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Speaker 2: birth of the second daughter.

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Speaker 5: Yes, that goes exactly to what I said about the irregular,

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Speaker 5: irregular heart beats. That's very, very specific for a heart

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Speaker 5: condition that we call atrial fibrillation flutter, and that means

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Speaker 5: the heart is not pumping in sequence so that it

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Speaker 5: puts pressure and oxygen in the rest of the body.

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Speaker 5: Atrial Fibrillation means the heart shakes and it quivers and

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Speaker 5: it doesn't deliver physiologically appropriate beats and pressure. Atrial fibrillation

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Speaker 5: is corrected with a pacemaker, so they do.

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Speaker 1: Sati fibrillation the same as DFIB.

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Speaker 5: DEFIB is what you do to take people out of

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Speaker 5: atrial fibrillation.

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Speaker 6: That's the one time.

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Speaker 5: Shock, but atrial fibrillation is the pathological condition. And sometimes

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Speaker 5: after delivery because of thyroid the heart just starts the irregular,

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Speaker 5: irregular beating and it's always called irregular irregular because there's

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Speaker 5: no pattern. That's why they need a pacemaker. A pacemaker

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Speaker 5: puts the heart back in rhythm so it can pump

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Speaker 5: blood pressure and oxygen.

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Speaker 6: This is exactly what happens.

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Speaker 5: After birth in twenty five maybe thirty percent of females,

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Speaker 5: but then they don't all get so bad they need pacemakers.

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Speaker 5: A pacemaker, and it's not a practice. Strong woman in

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Speaker 5: her thirties is almost unheard of.

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Speaker 2: To Derek Dallinger joining us, I'm sure at North Carolina

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Speaker 2: investigative reporter and anchor at Queens City News, question, Derek,

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Speaker 2: I'm very curious as to the husband's behavior at the memorial.

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Speaker 1: Do we know anything about that?

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Speaker 4: Well, for lack of better words, we do know he

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Speaker 4: was somewhat emotional. However, the family did note that things

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Speaker 4: seemed a little bit weird, and they noticed, especially right

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Speaker 4: after or right around that time of the memorial service,

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Speaker 4: he seemed to be moving on and moving on rather quickly.

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Speaker 1: So when you say weird, you know what.

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Speaker 2: To Mark Pepper, joining US veteran trial lawyer criminal defense

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Speaker 2: attorney at the Pepper Law Firm in Charleston, Mark, thank

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Speaker 2: you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: You know what.

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Speaker 2: I really can't put that up as evidence. It gives

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Speaker 2: me nothing. He was weird. You could say that about, Oh,

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Speaker 2: I don't know, fifty percent of the population. Everyone thinks

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Speaker 2: everybody is weird, accepting themselves. So he may have acted

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Speaker 2: weirdly at the memorial, But that's nothing hard, no, because.

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Speaker 8: Being weird at a memorial is not a crime or

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Speaker 8: evidence of having committed a crime. It's nothing more than

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Speaker 8: going through an emotional stage in your life where Heaven forbid,

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Speaker 8: your wife, mother of your children has just been found

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Speaker 8: by you.

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Speaker 2: I love the way that you're so confident in your answer,

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Speaker 2: just as you are in court.

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Speaker 9: Now.

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Speaker 1: I know why you win so many cases. But did

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Speaker 1: you hear?

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Speaker 2: Derek Dellinger from qcnews dot Com stayed earlier that he

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Speaker 2: was kind of confused the husband about.

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Speaker 1: How he found his wife.

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Speaker 2: Did first he was coming in correct me if I'm wrong,

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Speaker 2: Derek Delager coming in from jogging when he saw her

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Speaker 2: slumped over the sofa, And I'm curious how was she

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Speaker 2: slumpt over?

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Speaker 1: Was she's sitting there slumped over by the side, or

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Speaker 1: was she falling over the sofa?

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Speaker 2: And then later he said Mark Pepper that he was

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Speaker 2: working on his computer and went, oh, my stars, my

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Speaker 2: wife slumped over on the sofa.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think I would remember that. No, I'm

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Speaker 1: getting some evidence.

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Speaker 8: Although I think my expert at trial would say that

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Speaker 8: when you go through a traumatic situation such as he did,

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Speaker 8: you misremember things often. Perhaps he did go for a job,

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Speaker 8: came back, started on his computer and then noticed his way.

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Speaker 1: Did you say misremember?

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Speaker 8: Course, people misremember things all the time.

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Speaker 10: I'm sure actually misremember it is today, it is to this,

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Speaker 10: it is okay.

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Speaker 8: You get multiple statements. You know, was it right consecutive

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Speaker 8: and sequential order that he went for a jog then

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Speaker 8: he founder or did he go for a jog and

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Speaker 8: then check his email and then he founder? Does it

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Speaker 8: really matter? The bottom line is.

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Speaker 1: Not matter to me, But I understand.

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Speaker 2: That's what matters to me. Would it managed to with jury?

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Speaker 1: Okay? I understand you, and you're pretend.

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Speaker 2: Expert that's going to get on the stand and say, yeah,

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Speaker 2: people change their stories all the time with.

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Speaker 1: Their wives die. You don't believe that.

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Speaker 2: Your expert may say that, and you may have to

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Speaker 2: pay that expert a lot of money to say that.

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Speaker 1: But people on the jury may not believe that. But

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Speaker 1: I give you an a.

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Speaker 2: Plus because obviously you're doing something right in the courtroom.

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Speaker 2: What more do we know about this couple? Listen to

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Speaker 2: investigative reporter Drew Nilson.

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Speaker 11: By their eighth wedding anniversary. High school sweethearts, Stacy and

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Speaker 11: Joshua Hunsucker share two young daughters, Willow and Piper. The

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Speaker 11: couple seems happy with their life in Mount Holly, North Carolina.

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Speaker 11: Stacey works as a pair of legal and Joshua is

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Speaker 11: the lead paramedic at Atrium Health schmid Center Air Unit.

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Speaker 11: They're also close to Stacy's parents, John and Susie Robinson,

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Speaker 11: who are always willing to.

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Speaker 1: Babysit crime stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: As in so many other cases, we have observed friends

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Speaker 2: and coworkers becomes suspicious.

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Speaker 12: Listen, friends and coworkers comment that Joshua Hunsucker seems largely

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Speaker 12: unaffected by his wife's death. Hunsucker begins the process of

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Speaker 12: filing for Stacy's life insurance benefits just two days after

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Speaker 12: her death, and starts a relationship with a coworker less

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Speaker 12: than a month after the funeral. Within six months, Hunsucker's

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Speaker 12: new girlfriend moves into the family home.

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Speaker 1: Okay, can we just get real for a moment? I

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Speaker 1: don't know.

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Speaker 2: That was investigator reporter Jackie Howard speaking to doctor Sherry Schwartz.

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Speaker 2: Let's analyze what we just heard. There's such a thing

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Speaker 2: as putting perfume on the pig.

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Speaker 1: You ever heard that? Doctors?

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Speaker 2: Doctor Sherry Schwartz forensic psychologist specializing in capital mitigation victim

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Speaker 2: advocacy at panthermitigation dot com. She's the author of Criminal

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Speaker 2: Behavior and Where Law and Psychology intersect. Doctor Sherry Schwartz.

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Speaker 2: Hold on, did you hear what the reporter said. Hamsucker

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Speaker 2: begins the process of filing for Lacy's for Stacy's life insurance.

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Speaker 1: Just two days after her death.

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Speaker 2: Okay, here's the problem that, here's the part that disturbs me,

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Speaker 2: and starts a relationship with a coworker less than a

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Speaker 2: month after the funeral.

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Speaker 1: Now right there.

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Speaker 2: I don't think we're talking about a penpal. I think

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Speaker 2: we're talking about a sex relationship. So, as our expert

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Speaker 2: Mark Pepper will tell you, there's all sorts of, you know,

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Speaker 2: psychological behavior following the death of your spouse, but starting

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Speaker 2: a sex affair, I don't think that's part of one

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Speaker 2: of the stages of grieving.

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Speaker 13: Well, I mean, in some respects it could be, But

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Speaker 13: when you look at the aggregation of the behavior, so

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Speaker 13: he's applying within forty eight hours, it sounds like for

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Speaker 13: insurance money, and then he's moving on with the relationship.

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Speaker 13: This seems to be somebody who's moving on really quickly

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Speaker 13: from the sudden, shocking death of his wife, and he

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Speaker 13: has two little children to worry about as well. It

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Speaker 13: just seems like he's very focused on getting to the

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Speaker 13: next stage of his life.

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Speaker 2: Derek Dellingery joining me, investigative reporter at Queen's City News.

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Speaker 2: Can we talk about the as it was stated, relationship

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Speaker 2: with a co worker. I have reason to suspect the

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Speaker 2: relationship with the co workers started before his wife died.

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Speaker 1: What do you know from what we know it did?

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Speaker 4: The relationship is sometime around not really sincerely sure about

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Speaker 4: the length of a relationship, but apparently it did start

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Speaker 4: before it stays he had died.

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Speaker 1: Okay, what do you mean? What indication do I have

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Speaker 1: he was having an affair?

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Speaker 2: What if any and all of the wife's girlfriends speculating

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Speaker 2: is not evidence? What evidence is there that there was

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Speaker 2: an extramarital affair during the wife's life?

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Speaker 4: From what nothing has been revealed so far about that specifically.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so I've got to rule that out.

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Speaker 2: I don't know any hard evidence about an affair. I

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Speaker 2: just know speculation. Now I am a little curious about

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Speaker 2: filing for life insurance within forty eight hours.

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Speaker 1: He is joining me right now.

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Speaker 2: Former SHAREFF, former homicide and undercover narcotics agent Ron Bateman

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Speaker 2: at Ronbatemanbooks dot com, author of a crime trilogy, Silent

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Speaker 2: Blue Tears.

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Speaker 1: Ron, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: Yes, Mary, So when you heard doctor William Moroney speaking

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Speaker 2: about cod cause of death, that's what investigators.

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Speaker 1: Have to focus on.

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Speaker 2: They don't have anything else yet. Would just immediately filing

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Speaker 2: for two hundred and fifty thousand dollars life insurance policy

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Speaker 2: within forty eight hours? Would that wave a red flag?

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Speaker 2: What else would it take for you to become suspicious?

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Speaker 9: That's huge, red flag huge. There's a grieving process that

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Speaker 9: takes place, as you know, and you don't get over

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Speaker 9: that that quick. And I would definitely be interested in

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Speaker 9: interviewing this girlfriend. And to answer your question earlier about evidence,

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Speaker 9: you know, I would be boots on the ground. I

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Speaker 9: would be checking his credit card, his phone records, checking

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Speaker 9: local hotels, motels, see if I have him being, you know,

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Speaker 9: staying there overnight or a couple of nights with this lady.

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Speaker 9: And I would definitely be interested in talking with her

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Speaker 9: because there may be some bedroom talk. You know, they

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Speaker 9: may be in this together. This could be a conspiracy.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't just coworkers that became concerned. Listen.

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Speaker 12: Stacy Hunsucker's mom, Susie Robinson, cannot seem to find closure

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Speaker 12: concerning her daughter's death. She finds it odd that Joshua Hunsucker,

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Speaker 12: a paramedic with plenty of experience in emergency situations, can't

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Speaker 12: seem to remember what he was doing before he found

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Speaker 12: Stacy unconscious. Robinson also discovers Hunsucker's new girlfriend may have

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Speaker 12: been seeing him before her daughter's death. Okay, so is

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Speaker 12: it still just speculation?

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Speaker 1: Is it real?

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Speaker 2: Was there an affair going on prior to Stacy's death?

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Speaker 2: And if there was that relationship, that sex relationship going on,

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Speaker 2: then that still doesn't prove.

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Speaker 1: That she's murdered.

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Speaker 2: Let me ask you very quickly to Derek Dillinger, I

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Speaker 2: had mentioned the memorial and whether the husband acted oddly

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Speaker 2: at the memorial.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't a funeral. Was she cremated?

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Speaker 2: She was cremated to doctor William Maroney joining us for

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Speaker 2: now medical examiner, doctor Mury. Once a body is cremated,

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Speaker 2: is there any way to somehow extract DNA for the body?

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Speaker 6: Absolutely not.

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Speaker 5: It's gone, it's done, its ashes, And the fact that

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Speaker 5: they didn't do an autopsy is suspicious even if she

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Speaker 5: had art issues, because that means your medical examiner some

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Speaker 5: kind of fossil.

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Speaker 6: He's a dinosaur.

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Speaker 5: He's living off a past that he's not curious and

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Speaker 5: he's not interested in the truth.

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Speaker 6: Ashes give you ashes. It's a box. It's as big

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Speaker 6: as a box of cheerios. There's nothing you can do

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Speaker 6: with it.

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Speaker 2: So let me understand. Is it true to our legal experts?

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Speaker 2: Is it true that the next of ken not necessarily

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Speaker 2: blood relative? But it would be the husband that's the

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Speaker 2: one that decides unless the state orders an autopsy. It

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Speaker 2: would be the husband in this case to side, we're

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Speaker 2: not having an autopsy. He quote didn't want to see

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Speaker 2: her cut up. So he gets decided to decide if

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Speaker 2: his wife has an autopsy.

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Speaker 1: Mark.

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Speaker 8: That's exactly right. And his vote is the only vote

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Speaker 8: that is considered by the pathologists with the coroner's office.

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Speaker 8: He is the next of ken. He gets to determine

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Speaker 8: what happens to the body. In this case, he chose

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Speaker 8: to cremate his wife.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Docter Sherry Schwartz, you and I covered together. I

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Speaker 2: mentioned him earlier, the prophet Chad da Bell. When his

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Speaker 2: wife Tammy da Bell died suddenly intersleep, remember the one

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Speaker 2: that ran marathons, He did not want her quote cut

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Speaker 2: up and refused an autopsy.

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Speaker 1: She had to be exhumed.

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Speaker 2: Under court order, and it was then determined that she

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Speaker 2: died of asphyxiation. So I'm concerned when someone doesn't want

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Speaker 2: to find out why their spouse died, and Race is

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Speaker 2: practically sprints to the crematorium.

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Speaker 1: With you, Nancy.

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Speaker 13: This is a significant consideration when making a determination about

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Speaker 13: whether or not somebody could be implicated in the death

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Speaker 13: of another person, particularly their loved one. This woman was very,

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Speaker 13: very young, and while she had a heart condition, it

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Speaker 13: appears after the birth of her second daughter. Still he's

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Speaker 13: a paramedic. It's very concerning to me that he wasn't

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Speaker 13: wanting to know exactly what caused her death, what was missed,

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Speaker 13: what could happen that would cause the death of such

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Speaker 13: a young, otherwise healthy woman.

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Speaker 11: As investigators begin to suspect that his wife's death was

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Speaker 11: not natural, Joshua Hunsucker's behavior becomes erratic. During a night

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Speaker 11: shift with Atrium Health in their helicopter unit, Hunsucker sets

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Speaker 11: a syringe pump on fire. The pilot is forced into

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Speaker 11: an emergency landing in a car dealership parking lot while

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Speaker 11: no one is injured. Atrium Health begins an investigation into

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Speaker 11: the incident.

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Speaker 2: Okay, wait a minute, Wait a minute, I feel like

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Speaker 2: I'm in another case to you.

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Speaker 1: Derrick Dillager Joy he has Queen City News.

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Speaker 2: So, after his wife dies of natural causes, this guy,

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Speaker 2: who is a paramedic, starts a fire in a helicopter

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Speaker 2: while it's in the air, like a life flight helicopter.

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Speaker 1: Did I did I hear that? Yes?

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Speaker 4: It was charged with some wrongdoing, specifically without fire.

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Speaker 2: So the pilot is forced into an emergency landing in

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Speaker 2: a car dealership parking lot. Nobody is injured, but Hm

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Speaker 2: Hill starts an investigation into the incident. You know how

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Speaker 2: many times Ron Bateman former share Form a homicide detective

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Speaker 2: Undercover Narcotics at.

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Speaker 1: Ronbateman books dot com.

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Speaker 2: Ron how many times has a defendant suspect been going

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Speaker 2: along under the radar when they do something really stupid.

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Speaker 1: And they get nabbed on that and then the entire

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Speaker 1: plot Like, why in the world would you start? I

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Speaker 1: believe he said, like some syringe pump on fire up

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Speaker 1: in a helicopter. Idiot.

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Speaker 9: That's crazy. It sounds like self destructive behavior to me.

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Speaker 9: But also, you know what you said, People do that

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Speaker 9: all the time. They make something stupid, mistake, which allows

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Speaker 9: their DNA to be taken or their fingerprints to be

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Speaker 9: taken when they weren't otherwise on file, and then bam,

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Speaker 9: they're in a system. They're identified for other crimes. It

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Speaker 9: happens all the time. Let's face it, They're not the

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Speaker 9: smartest tools in the short the sharpest tools in the shed.

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Speaker 2: Okay, guys, because of his crazy stunt in a helicopter,

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Speaker 2: and I'm wondering if somehow this paramedic hubby, paramedic cheating hubby,

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Speaker 2: according to sources, was trying to take focus off his

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Speaker 2: wife's death and somehow come out the hero.

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Speaker 1: I'm just wondering his.

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Speaker 2: Motivation for lighting a syringe pump on fire and a

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Speaker 2: flying helicopter. Okay, that opened up a Pandora's box. A

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Speaker 2: trim Health where you work started an investigation of that.

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Speaker 14: Now listen, the NCDI discovered Stacy is an organ donor

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Speaker 14: and a vial of her blood has been stored. Tests

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Speaker 14: on the blood reveal that Stacy has a lethal amount

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Speaker 14: of tetrahydrosylene, the active ingredient, and eyedrops in her bloodstream

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Speaker 14: at the time of her death.

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Speaker 2: Okay, after the stunt in the helicopter. Everyone's suspicions reached

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Speaker 2: a boiling point. Now, remember dary Dellinger, isn't this correct?

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Speaker 2: The husband demanded a cremation immediately. He did not want

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Speaker 2: his wife cut up on autopsy. So she's cremated. You

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Speaker 2: heard doctor Moroney state there's no way to get tissue

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Speaker 2: blood any DNA wants. Someone is being cremated. But then

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Speaker 2: they remember she's an organ donor. So what happens?

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Speaker 9: Then?

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Speaker 4: What happens then? Okay, so there is a vile of

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Speaker 4: her blood as a result of her being an organed downer.

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Speaker 4: That is what is tested, and it's found to have

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Speaker 4: this lethal dose of basically the active ingredient and eyedrops.

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Speaker 4: If you know you've put it in eyedrops, if eye

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Speaker 4: drops in your eye will help with the redness in

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Speaker 4: your eyes. But however, if you ingest it, that can

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Speaker 4: cause some issues the heart, also issues with your energy.

442
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 4: It can be lethal in the right of mind too.

443
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:25,919
Speaker 2: Doctor William Roney, renowned psychologists, explain to me what he

444
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 2: just said. Are you saying that if I drink vizin

445
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 2: it could strickt the blood vessels around my heart.

446
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:38,359
Speaker 6: Yes, And it's lethal enough that if you did a

447
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 6: couple of tables booms, you would lose consciousness, you would

448
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 6: be dizzy, you would lose blood pressure, it would slow

449
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 6: your heart and you'd stop breathing, and if you did enough,

450
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 6: it would make you look like you had a heart attack.

451
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 2: What do we know about this substance, this seemingly toxic

452
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,680
Speaker 2: substance in eyedrops. As you heard doctor Moroney say, it's

453
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 2: okay for your eyes, not okay for the rest of

454
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 2: your body.

455
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 15: Listen, this is not something we would normally go in

456
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,919
Speaker 15: looking for. And the half life, what the refer to

457
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 15: the half life of the drug is very short. It

458
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 15: only lasts about six hours in the system. So you

459
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 15: have to look to other symptomology and then dig back

460
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 15: in and see what is this consistent with. So it

461
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,120
Speaker 15: requires quite a bit of medical detective work.

462
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 2: So let me understand this, doctor Moroney. When you become

463
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 2: an organ donor at the time of your death, your

464
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,879
Speaker 2: organs are harvested is a nice way to say it,

465
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:40,640
Speaker 2: taken out of your body. So in effect, she Stacy

466
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 2: was cut up, as the husband said, anyway to harvest

467
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 2: her organs. Luckily, during that process, a vial of her

468
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 2: bodily fluids. I guess blood was maintained. So from that

469
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:59,439
Speaker 2: one vial DTR Moroney, it could be determined that she

470
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 2: had the ingredient of eye drops in her blood.

471
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:07,879
Speaker 5: Yes, and they saved the blood for purposes of answering

472
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 5: questions asked. The bodies buried or cremated. If somebody comes

473
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 5: up and says, hey, the donor got heppatitis C, the

474
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 5: donor got appatitis B, the donor got a viral disease,

475
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 5: they can go back and look at the blood and

476
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 5: see if we screen that did that the person that

477
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 5: got the surgery, did they get that from this houselife?

478
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 12: Despite Joshua Hunsucker's antics, the Robinson's file a wrongful death

479
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 12: lawsuit against their former son in law, hoping to gather

480
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 12: what remains of Stacy's life insurance benefits to say for

481
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 12: her children. The Robinson's accuse Huntsucker of using the two

482
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 12: hundred and fifty thousand dollars designed a lavish lifestyle, including

483
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 12: extravagant vacations with his new girlfriend and the one hundred

484
00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:00,440
Speaker 12: thousand dollars boat. The Robinson's also seek an addition twenty

485
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 12: five thousand dollars in damages as they claimed Stacy's death

486
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 12: was caused by Hunsucker's wilful, intentional, and malicious conduct.

487
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 1: Dary Dellinger let me understand this.

488
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 2: Her Stacy's parents sue him, the husband, for wrongful death

489
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 2: when they noticed his quote lavish spending one hundred thousand

490
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 2: dollars boat extravagant vacations with a new girlfriend. Why is

491
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 2: it derrek that man pinched the pennies during the marriage

492
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:30,400
Speaker 2: and when they get a hot.

493
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 1: Girlfriend, man they spend it all.

494
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 4: Well, he was free, at least he felt like he

495
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 4: was free to do what he wanted to and do

496
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 4: as he pleased. This is despite the fact that I mean,

497
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 4: he still had two daughters to take care of. But

498
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 4: he apparently was going about his life and going about

499
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 4: his life as if he lived life anew at least

500
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 4: before he was arrested.

501
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 1: And then another bizarre incident listen.

502
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 7: Joshua Hunsucker calls nine to one one claiming he was

503
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 7: attacked while changing a flat tire. On the scene, Hunsucker

504
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 7: tells Mount Holy Cops he was changing a tire when

505
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 7: a man pistol whipped him several times in the head,

506
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 7: bound his hands with a zip tie, then injected him

507
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 7: with an unknown substance. Huntsucker claims he knows his attacker,

508
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 7: former father in law, John Robinson. Investigators find no evidence

509
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 7: supporting Hunsucker's claims and determined he likely staged the attack.

510
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 7: During the investigation, cops find an unmarked bag containing pills

511
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 7: usually prescribed for depression and adults.

512
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 1: Okay, let me understand this, Terry Dallinger. Okay, so the

513
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 1: wife is dead.

514
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 2: The helicopter incident occurs then, much like you remember Alex

515
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 2: Simmerdogg out of South Carolina, who staged an event where

516
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 2: he claimed someone attacked him and that really opened up

517
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 2: a whole other can of worms. So let me understand now,

518
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 2: this guy to get back at his in laws, who

519
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 2: file a wrongful death lawsuit against him, He now claims

520
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 2: they attacked him.

521
00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 4: Yes, and specifically his former fo in law. His former

522
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 4: father in law is the target of not only that,

523
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 4: but as several other incidents. He's apparently trying to deflect

524
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 4: blame away from what happened to Stacy and also the

525
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 4: care for his kids, away from away from his ex

526
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 4: father in law, away from him, and more towards his.

527
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 2: Xbother you know again, the flat tire story rears its

528
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 2: ugly head.

529
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 1: Listen to this.

530
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 16: I can't think carry now more warmers. Emergency. I stuck,

531
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 16: I got a flat tire, stopped, somebody stopped to help me,

532
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 16: and when I turned my back, they tried to shoot me.

533
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 16: Will you shut yes, I can't drive, okay, and I'm

534
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 16: bleeding a lot. We're part of your body. I'm not sure.

535
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 16: Somewhere on my head somebody just stopped from me, ma'am.

536
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 1: Okay.

537
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 2: That was Alex Murna, using the same tired story that

538
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 2: all this happens when these fully athletic grown man are

539
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 2: changing a tire and then an unknown assailant attacks them.

540
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 2: Same thing here with Hunsucker, except he says his father

541
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 2: in law, his father in law, I guess up in

542
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 2: his sixties or seventies, attacks him while he's changing a

543
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 2: flat tire. Derek, I don't know if you recall an

544
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 2: Alex Mardock's case. His lawyer came out and said he

545
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 2: had like traumatic brain injury or some bs like that.

546
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 1: He showed up in court with a band aid on

547
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: his head.

548
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 2: Okay, were there any injuries pursuant to Hounsucker's attack on

549
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 2: the side of the road.

550
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 4: From what I'm recalled. There may have been a bruise,

551
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 4: but other than that, there was no real sign and

552
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 4: no real sign of any struggle that had happened.

553
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 2: You know what, Derek, I would absolutely check the blue

554
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 2: eyeshadow and his wife's cosmetic bag to find out if

555
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:44,479
Speaker 2: that's what the bruise was.

556
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 1: One more thing, Derek, you got to hear this listen.

557
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 12: Weeks after the alleged kidnapping and assault, Joshua Hunsucker rushes

558
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 12: his ten year old daughter to the hospital with concerning symptoms.

559
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 12: The girl has low blood pressure, a low heart rate,

560
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 12: extremely exhaust and constricted blood vessels. Doctors at Caram Mount

561
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 12: Hospital are stumped, and the girl is transported to Levine's

562
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 12: Children Hospital. There, a urine test reveals she has a

563
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 12: large amount of THCHZ, the same drug that killed her mother,

564
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 12: in her system. The test also revealed traces of the

565
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 12: antidepressant found in Joshua Hunsucker's car.

566
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 2: Doctor William Morony not just renowned to psychologists a medical examiner,

567
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 2: but devoted father Moroni, did you hear what the reporter

568
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 2: just said? Weeks after the claim his father in law

569
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 2: attacked him on the side of the road. He rushes

570
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 2: his ten year old little girl ten years old to

571
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 2: the hospital and guess what with low blood pressure, low

572
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 2: heart rate, exhaustion, constricted blood vessels. They determined from a

573
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 2: urine test her blood is full of thhz found in

574
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 2: eye drops. Help me, doctor Moroney, first his wife, now

575
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 2: his daughter.

576
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 6: He's got the exact same symptoms. And what he would

577
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 6: say is, oh, well, genetically he's like her mother. She

578
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 6: has these problems.

579
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 5: No, she's like her mother because you're poisoning her. That

580
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 5: is exactly what's happening. It's the same symptoms.

581
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 2: Okay, guys, if this is true, if these are all

582
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 2: just allegations, nobody's been proven guilty yet. If this is true,

583
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 2: is Hansucker what we call a family annihilator.

584
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 1: It brings to mind Chris Watts. Listen, my daddy is

585
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 1: a hero. He helps me good up. Fuck, he helps me.

586
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 2: Good too.

587
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 3: He leaves me with ta tion.

588
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,399
Speaker 14: Chris Watts is cheating on his pregnant wife and during

589
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 14: an argument about divorce, Watts strangles Shannan. Their four year

590
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 14: old daughter, Bella wakes up and sees her dad.

591
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 5: Mom.

592
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 14: Watts tells Bella mommy's sick and puts her back to bed.

593
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 14: Watts loads Shannan's body into the bed of his truck,

594
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:27,799
Speaker 14: and with Bella and three year old Celeste in the

595
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 14: back seat without their car seats, he takes his family

596
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,760
Speaker 14: to the oil tankers where he works. Smothering his daughters

597
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,840
Speaker 14: to death, he squeezes them through an eight inch hatch

598
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 14: in the oil tank and drops his wife into a

599
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 14: shallow grave one hundred yards from the oil tankers and

600
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 14: covers it with dirt.

601
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:51,719
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

602
00:34:55,440 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 2: Two forensic psychologist doctor Sherry Schwartz, what is a family annihilator?

603
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 13: A family annihilator Nancy is somebody who basically plans to

604
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 13: and executes everybody in the family. This is somebody who

605
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 13: we find is generally high end psychopathy. They have no conscience,

606
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:22,359
Speaker 13: they lack empathy, and they see their family as in

607
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 13: their way to leading their best life.

608
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 1: Tomorrow, Pepper is joining us.

609
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:31,360
Speaker 2: A veteran trial lawyerate the Pepper Law Firm in Charleston. Mark,

610
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 2: You've dealt with so many defendants, and I'm not asking

611
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 2: you to give attorney client privileges, but have you ever

612
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:41,439
Speaker 2: dealt as a lawyer with the client that seemingly had

613
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 2: no emotion that didn't seem to feel anything, for instance,

614
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:51,240
Speaker 2: a sociopath that doesn't really understand other people's suffering.

615
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 8: It's more common than you would think. Nancy and I

616
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:58,920
Speaker 8: suspect that your viewers would understand. The criminal mind is

617
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 8: different as your experts. I'm sure we'll elaborate on later.

618
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:06,879
Speaker 8: There are reasons people do things that you and I

619
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 8: can't understand, yet they somehow are able to justify it

620
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 8: to themselves. They have no empathy whatsoever. They have no

621
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:19,720
Speaker 8: sympathy whatsoever. There is no responsibility whatsoever. It is solely

622
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 8: about that individual and if that means moving his own

623
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 8: family or her family out of the way to accomplish

624
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 8: his own means. We see that quite often in the

625
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 8: criminal world that we live in. That is a typical behavior.

626
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 8: That this pattern is starting to real here by mister Hunsucker.

627
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 17: What investigators first responded to appeared to be a natural death.

628
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 17: They found Stephen Clayton at the bottom of the staircase

629
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 17: and their million dollar home, and his wife, Lana, said

630
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:53,760
Speaker 17: that he had been sick for the last few days,

631
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:57,399
Speaker 17: suffered from vertigo, so it appeared to be a rather

632
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 17: natural death. According to investigators. They believe she was motivated

633
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 17: by money. Stephen Clayton had a successful business in health rehabilitation.

634
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 17: They believe his house was worth about one point two million,

635
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 17: his property and then another million worth of assets. He

636
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 17: did not have any children, and a few weeks after

637
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,840
Speaker 17: his death are newspartners at the Herald report that she

638
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 17: filed to become a beneficiary to his estate.

639
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:32,359
Speaker 2: We're talking about Alanna Clayton, the wife in that case.

640
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 2: Has miss Stephen Clayton dead at the foot of the stairs.

641
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 1: Joining me right now.

642
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:38,880
Speaker 2: Crimeonline dot Com investigative reporter Sydney Summer. Sidney, thank you

643
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:43,760
Speaker 2: for being with us. The connection, if any, the Clayton

644
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 2: death was that by THHC.

645
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 1: That is correct, Yes, okay.

646
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 2: What if anything does that have to do with the

647
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 2: Hunsucker death by Eydrop Well Nancy.

648
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 18: This was just a few months before Stacy Hunsucker died,

649
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 18: so people believe that this was a copycat murder.

650
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 1: Joshua Hunsucker got.

651
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:08,799
Speaker 18: This idea from Lanta Clayton, and Lanta Clayton almost got

652
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 18: away with it because her husband was very adverse to

653
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 18: Western medicine. He wouldn't even get his blood drawn in

654
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 18: a doctor. So we believe that Clayton probably tried to

655
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 18: poison her husband several times.

656
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:23,279
Speaker 1: But it is possible that.

657
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 18: Joshua Humsucker saw this case in the news and took

658
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:29,320
Speaker 18: a page out of Lanta Clayton's book.

659
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:29,800
Speaker 1: Wow.

660
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:34,320
Speaker 2: Okay, doctor William Maroney joining US medical examiner author toxicologist,

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00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 2: did you hear what city someone just said? In that case,

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00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 2: the husband, Stephen Clayton, was quote adverse to Western medicine,

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00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:42,320
Speaker 2: wouldn't even get his blood drawn.

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00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 1: Okay.

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00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 2: That was perfectly set up for this type of poisoning

666
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 2: because he didn't.

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00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 1: Want any of his blood done. He wouldn't have prior

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00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 1: doctor's visits.

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00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 2: In this case, we don't have an autopsy because the

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00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 2: husband doesn't want it. We're not getting the correct medical findings.

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00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 2: I'm curious. I'm curious when you poison someone with this

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00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 2: particular substance tetrahydra hydras line, what.

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00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 1: Does it taste like? Because I think the wife got

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00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 1: it in water. She didn't taste it.

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00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 5: Hydrozisin is a little basic, you know, sometimes things are

676
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 5: a cynic or they're basic, but it's colorless, it's relatively tasteless.

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00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 5: It might taste a little bit like salt. But the

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00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 5: idea is you need very little. It's in the body

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00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 5: a long time and we don't know if he was

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00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 5: poisoning her for months, day after day or just a

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00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 5: huge ghost because we can't tell, but it would taste

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00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 5: just a little bit like salt, and it's clear that's

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00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 5: how you get away with it.

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00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 2: Wow, guys, again, no one has been found guilty in

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00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 2: this case and we wait as justice unfolds. Thank you

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00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 2: to all of our guests to help us understand this

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00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 2: very complicated, yet so simple case. Nancy Grace signing off,

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00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 2: goodbye friend,