1
00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:14,000
Speaker 1: Okay, big day. That's let's go to Kilbert, YEP.

2
00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:16,600
Speaker 2: I got everything I need.

3
00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:25,680
Speaker 3: It's September sixteenth, twenty twenty one. Kelsey and I spent

4
00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:29,440
Speaker 3: the night at a Best Western in Okeechobee, Florida. Neither

5
00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:32,760
Speaker 3: of us slept great giving the anticipation, but we pack

6
00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:35,879
Speaker 3: up and hit the road, heading toward Martin Correctional Institution.

7
00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:49,320
Speaker 4: Kenny's toward US four forty one south, US ninety eight south.

8
00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:56,960
Speaker 3: Did you see that sign? Or prayer is the best

9
00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:00,000
Speaker 3: way to meet God? Trespassing is.

10
00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:08,200
Speaker 5: Continue on Florida seven ten east for four miles.

11
00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:10,440
Speaker 3: I think this is really beautiful outier though.

12
00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:13,600
Speaker 6: Yeah.

13
00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:16,640
Speaker 3: It's been almost three years since we started working on

14
00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:20,160
Speaker 3: this story, and today we will finally be meeting with

15
00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:25,520
Speaker 3: Jeremy Scott. Driving the Martin Correctional Institution. We're in and

16
00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:29,520
Speaker 3: out of cell service range, but every time service returns,

17
00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:33,319
Speaker 3: my phone buzzes. I'm getting messages of support from everyone

18
00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:36,640
Speaker 3: who knows where we're heading. One of the texts is

19
00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:41,440
Speaker 3: from Chrissy. She offers a prediction about Jeremy's mood and disposition.

20
00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:45,720
Speaker 3: I think he'll be sweet, she tells me, and as

21
00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:48,640
Speaker 3: we drive, Kelsey and I are thinking about all of

22
00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:51,240
Speaker 3: the people we've talked to over the past three years,

23
00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:55,520
Speaker 3: people whose lives have been devastated by the violence and

24
00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:59,120
Speaker 3: the grief at the heart of the story. And I'm

25
00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:03,160
Speaker 3: thinking about the people who, despite that, or maybe because

26
00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:07,520
Speaker 3: of that, urged us to keep going, to keep pushing

27
00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:12,480
Speaker 3: and investigating. Like Jesse Som, Michelle's brother.

28
00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:17,160
Speaker 7: I want you guys to find the truth. I mean, whatever,

29
00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:21,240
Speaker 7: and however long it takes, it'll just bring peace to me,

30
00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:24,160
Speaker 7: you know what I mean. And that can leave this

31
00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,080
Speaker 7: world knowing that at least it was solved and I

32
00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:29,760
Speaker 7: know for a fact what happened.

33
00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:34,320
Speaker 3: And we're thinking about dan Odie, who has tried not

34
00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:38,560
Speaker 3: once but twice for the murder of cab driver Joseph Lavere,

35
00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:42,520
Speaker 3: a murder Jeremy Scott seems to be responsible for.

36
00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:46,640
Speaker 8: I would love to just show everybody, you know, no

37
00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:48,919
Speaker 8: matter what you think this is, this is really who

38
00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:49,240
Speaker 8: did it?

39
00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:52,320
Speaker 4: Now, Now y'all can rest your thoughts about me, because

40
00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:53,560
Speaker 4: I'm not that way, never been.

41
00:02:55,560 --> 00:03:01,160
Speaker 8: That would be great, Right, we're ten minutes out.

42
00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:02,760
Speaker 9: How are you feeling.

43
00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:07,239
Speaker 3: I feel really good about this. I feel like we've

44
00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:11,080
Speaker 3: done all the preparation. We know so much. It's really

45
00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:14,600
Speaker 3: just going to be about making him feel comfortable and

46
00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:17,800
Speaker 3: just sort of establishing some kind of trust.

47
00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:21,120
Speaker 9: I mean, that's how you're feeling about how it's going

48
00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:23,760
Speaker 9: to go. How are you feeling about the fact that

49
00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:25,880
Speaker 9: we're finally sitting down with this person.

50
00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:29,880
Speaker 3: I don't know. It's like every day I just kept

51
00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:32,359
Speaker 3: checking my email, but you know, now here it is

52
00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,440
Speaker 3: an hour away from meeting him, and we're you know,

53
00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,360
Speaker 3: we have no none of those kind of emails saying

54
00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:40,800
Speaker 3: it the trips off. So I feel really good.

55
00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:46,640
Speaker 9: That's still all logistical stuff. What I mean, we're sitting

56
00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:53,920
Speaker 9: down with the person who killed Michelle, killed three other people.

57
00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:59,120
Speaker 9: Is you know, to some degree the reason Leo has

58
00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:04,760
Speaker 9: spent the past thirty three years in prison.

59
00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:10,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think that's probably the reason why

60
00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:14,200
Speaker 3: I'm talking about logistical stuff, because you know, this is

61
00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:17,520
Speaker 3: really painful when you think about it, all the people

62
00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:20,720
Speaker 3: that we've met over the years whose lives have been

63
00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:24,279
Speaker 3: damaged because of what Jeremy did. That's going to be

64
00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:27,120
Speaker 3: the part that you know, it's in the back of

65
00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:29,760
Speaker 3: your mind, but I try to, like, I feel like

66
00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:33,320
Speaker 3: I just want to focus on him and be sort

67
00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:36,920
Speaker 3: of empathic to him so that he's in a talking mode.

68
00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:39,680
Speaker 3: So I'm trying to like put all that stuff in

69
00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:42,520
Speaker 3: a compartment because it's just so painful.

70
00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:45,240
Speaker 6: That makes sense.

71
00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:52,000
Speaker 3: Your destination is on the left. Okay, there's but.

72
00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:10,920
Speaker 10: All right, let me just go up there and take

73
00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:11,200
Speaker 10: a look.

74
00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:18,599
Speaker 9: Well here, it's just hitting me that we are not

75
00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:33,360
Speaker 9: here to meet Leo. We are here doctor Jeremy pulling

76
00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:36,440
Speaker 9: up here and getting everything together. That kind of seems

77
00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:44,680
Speaker 9: routine as we've gone to see Leo so many times, but.

78
00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:44,719
Speaker 2: This is super different.

79
00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:48,719
Speaker 9: Actually getting a little nervous.

80
00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:59,520
Speaker 3: We've been preparing for this interview for the past three weeks,

81
00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,440
Speaker 3: but we've been hoping it would happen for the past

82
00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:06,520
Speaker 3: three years, and we've been fishing for advice from anyone

83
00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,360
Speaker 3: who'd come to know Jeremy or who'd spoken to him

84
00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:13,240
Speaker 3: in any capacity over the years. We spoke to private

85
00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:18,200
Speaker 3: investigator Pat McKenna, Judge Scott Cupp, and Leo's current lawyers

86
00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:19,480
Speaker 3: Andrew Crawford.

87
00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:19,800
Speaker 11: And Seth Miller.

88
00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:23,120
Speaker 3: They all think that the letters Jeremy's been writing to

89
00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:25,800
Speaker 3: me are an indication that he's ready to open up.

90
00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:31,880
Speaker 3: But it's Leo's advice that resonates with us the most.

91
00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:34,599
Speaker 3: I talked to him on the phone before going in

92
00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:35,560
Speaker 3: to see Jeremy.

93
00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:43,400
Speaker 12: The state has passed us as opponents in the chess game. Yeah,

94
00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:47,120
Speaker 12: I'm not trying to play chess. I'm not trying to

95
00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:51,400
Speaker 12: pin something on him. That's not my objectives. We're out

96
00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:54,600
Speaker 12: the truth, you know, and he's the one that supplied

97
00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,400
Speaker 12: the truth, you know. But I would really like him

98
00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:01,960
Speaker 12: to know and feel that myself and those who represent

99
00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:07,599
Speaker 12: me are you know, concerned for his well being as well.

100
00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:08,000
Speaker 13: You know.

101
00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,640
Speaker 12: We want to feel safe enough to tell the truth

102
00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:13,600
Speaker 12: to not you know, have to cover things up.

103
00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:21,360
Speaker 3: It's almost exactly like Marty or at Chardy. Same front

104
00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:23,920
Speaker 3: doors and the pathrooms are right across the way. We

105
00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:27,280
Speaker 3: arrive at Martin, and this place looks remarkably similar to

106
00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:30,280
Speaker 3: Hardy CI, where Leo is housed and where we've gone

107
00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:31,560
Speaker 3: through the security.

108
00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:32,600
Speaker 11: Process half a dozen times.

109
00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:37,640
Speaker 3: It's another giant concrete complex surrounded by tall fences and

110
00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:42,840
Speaker 3: lots of barbed wire. We get to security and the

111
00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:46,160
Speaker 3: guards give us the personal body alarms, the little devices

112
00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:48,360
Speaker 3: with the button were supposed to press in an emergency.

113
00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:52,280
Speaker 3: We loop it through our belts and hand over our IDs.

114
00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:56,120
Speaker 3: The warden meets us and leads us to a room

115
00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:59,280
Speaker 3: where the interview will take place. We don't know what

116
00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:02,280
Speaker 3: to expect. We don't know if Jeremy will be shackled

117
00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:04,480
Speaker 3: and cuffed, or if a guard will stay in the

118
00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:08,520
Speaker 3: room with us. I'm not expecting Hannibal Lecter in a

119
00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,640
Speaker 3: mask to be wheeled in, but I'm aware that Jeremy's

120
00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:15,200
Speaker 3: attack guards and nurses at various facilities across the state.

121
00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:20,280
Speaker 3: He's known to act out in unpredictable ways. As the

122
00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:23,000
Speaker 3: warden leaves, he tells us to be careful not to

123
00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:25,760
Speaker 3: let the inmate touch the door, because there's a latch

124
00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:28,840
Speaker 3: near the knob that, if flipped, would leave us locked

125
00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:29,400
Speaker 3: in the room.

126
00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:30,440
Speaker 11: Alone with him.

127
00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:32,679
Speaker 3: I can't even tell if he's fucking with us.

128
00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:35,520
Speaker 9: He definitely wasn't fucking with us.

129
00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:39,040
Speaker 6: It's just.

130
00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:42,360
Speaker 3: Well, he just wint of got the impression that they

131
00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:44,720
Speaker 3: were just gonna drop him off in the in the room.

132
00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,280
Speaker 3: And that's when I got a little nervous, because I'm like, oh,

133
00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:49,679
Speaker 3: I responsible for Kelsey. He's gonna be sitting in a

134
00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:51,280
Speaker 3: room with kel you know. I don't know how that's

135
00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:54,560
Speaker 3: gonna go. I mean, I try this, we don't need orus.

136
00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:58,360
Speaker 3: This one's better. You know, there was two different kinds

137
00:08:58,400 --> 00:08:59,880
Speaker 3: of chairs there. I'm like, all right, the one that

138
00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,079
Speaker 3: locks him in a little bit better. And I was like, well,

139
00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:04,040
Speaker 3: let's just put one with arm rest on there. I'll

140
00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:05,400
Speaker 3: just make it a little bit harder for him to

141
00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:09,240
Speaker 3: jump over the table to get to us. I'm just

142
00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:10,520
Speaker 3: trying to think about this stuff.

143
00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:15,680
Speaker 2: It's situated like you.

144
00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:19,760
Speaker 3: I'll probably be exactly like this, like leading in talking

145
00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:29,400
Speaker 3: to him. Decided, Yeah, Jeremy, thanks for coming. Testing one

146
00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:34,760
Speaker 3: two three, Testing one two three. I'm gonna probably if

147
00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:36,600
Speaker 3: he comes in, I'll get up and greet him and

148
00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:37,199
Speaker 3: shake hands, and.

149
00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:37,760
Speaker 4: I think you should.

150
00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:38,760
Speaker 3: It's just tastyated.

151
00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:44,880
Speaker 4: I'm nervous now.

152
00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:50,600
Speaker 3: He ever, buttons.

153
00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:54,560
Speaker 2: Hopefully work.

154
00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:01,680
Speaker 1: Shore.

155
00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:02,920
Speaker 2: You don't want to do this about them?

156
00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:04,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm positive, cause.

157
00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:07,719
Speaker 2: You can't leave me alone in here with them at

158
00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:08,240
Speaker 2: any point.

159
00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:09,440
Speaker 3: No, I'm not going to do it.

160
00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:13,160
Speaker 2: Don't worry if you need to go now go.

161
00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:31,120
Speaker 4: Now understood, sweeps gonna be sweet.

162
00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:49,360
Speaker 14: He should he's coming, Hi, Jermy.

163
00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:58,160
Speaker 3: Bone Valley chapter nine, coming clean.

164
00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:13,920
Speaker 15: Hi, I'm gonna be going around and.

165
00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:17,840
Speaker 2: This is Kelsey.

166
00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:19,040
Speaker 3: Let's think him.

167
00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:21,360
Speaker 16: If you would sit over here and we'll we can

168
00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:21,800
Speaker 16: talk to you.

169
00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:28,400
Speaker 9: He's about six foot, he's pretty slender build, has blue eyes.

170
00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:34,199
Speaker 17: And if you're comfortable with it removing your mask, we're

171
00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:34,959
Speaker 17: fine with that too.

172
00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:36,719
Speaker 2: Yeah.

173
00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:39,440
Speaker 18: They just made me, made me when he got a shave,

174
00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:42,960
Speaker 18: and still they just made they made me go get

175
00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:43,680
Speaker 18: all this new.

176
00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:45,400
Speaker 4: Clothes on and stuff just for y'all.

177
00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:49,880
Speaker 3: Are you kidding? You know, he's a tall guy, and

178
00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:53,760
Speaker 3: he's obviously can be imposing. And you know, when they

179
00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:58,760
Speaker 3: brought him in, he was not cuffed for some reason.

180
00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:00,960
Speaker 3: I don't know. I just I never felt threatened by him.

181
00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:03,319
Speaker 3: I didn't. He did not strike me as someone who

182
00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:05,360
Speaker 3: is going to be dangerous. And I think that was

183
00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:07,520
Speaker 3: his body language, you know, shaking his hand, he just

184
00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:10,559
Speaker 3: kind of like just sort of disappeared into himself. It

185
00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:14,680
Speaker 3: was a very loose handshake. Yeah, all his confidence and

186
00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:17,520
Speaker 3: everything that he might have thought about himself as a

187
00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:20,280
Speaker 3: young man is just gone. I feel felt sorry for

188
00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:24,120
Speaker 3: him really physically looking at him, he just seemed like

189
00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:26,600
Speaker 3: a shell of a of a man at this point.

190
00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:31,800
Speaker 18: Because really gonna do for me? Yeah, I mean, my

191
00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:32,480
Speaker 18: life here.

192
00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:33,880
Speaker 4: Is is just what he did, you know.

193
00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:37,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, how do you like Martin so far? Do you

194
00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:38,000
Speaker 3: feel safer here?

195
00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:42,880
Speaker 18: Not really, but I guess I never feel safe in prison.

196
00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:46,960
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. One of the things Kelsey and I had

197
00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:50,480
Speaker 3: discussed in preparation for this interview was the intention to

198
00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:54,760
Speaker 3: follow Jeremy's lead. And everything we'd seen Jeremy had been

199
00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:58,160
Speaker 3: questioned by someone with a specific goal or agenda, a

200
00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:00,079
Speaker 3: detective or a lawyer who wants to get to the

201
00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:04,640
Speaker 3: bottom of something, a prosecutor looking for a particular story.

202
00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:06,840
Speaker 3: We wanted him to know that this would be different.

203
00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:08,920
Speaker 11: Of course, we had things.

204
00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:11,400
Speaker 3: We wanted to find out and leads we'd be itching

205
00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,240
Speaker 3: to follow, but we wanted Jeremy to be at ease.

206
00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:16,640
Speaker 3: We wanted to give him the freedom to tell his

207
00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:19,640
Speaker 3: story the way he wanted to tell it. We wanted

208
00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:22,240
Speaker 3: him to know that we were interested in him and

209
00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:27,080
Speaker 3: everything that entails. But that also means that sometimes, in

210
00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:30,120
Speaker 3: the middle of talking about one thing, he might pivot.

211
00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:35,480
Speaker 3: This happened pretty early in the interview. Jeremy casually mentions

212
00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:38,760
Speaker 3: the taxicab driver as he's telling us about an interaction

213
00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:42,360
Speaker 3: he had with his mother's boyfriend back in nineteen eighty seven.

214
00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:46,400
Speaker 18: He knew about it. He knew about the taxicab driver

215
00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:48,920
Speaker 18: because I told him here touch my mom, aw kill him.

216
00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:54,000
Speaker 18: And I meant that, right. I'm just trying to straight up, right.

217
00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:58,120
Speaker 18: I might have been a little drinking at that particular

218
00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,800
Speaker 18: day right on, that kind of slipped.

219
00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:05,600
Speaker 3: But we'd been hoping the taxi cab driver would come

220
00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:09,240
Speaker 3: up in conversation. We didn't want it to feel confrontational.

221
00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,400
Speaker 3: So when he brings it up, we follow his lead.

222
00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:16,000
Speaker 3: Can you talk a little bit. You mentioned the taxi story,

223
00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:18,120
Speaker 3: and I'm just curious, like how that started. Can you

224
00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:19,360
Speaker 3: just start that from the beginning.

225
00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:27,960
Speaker 18: Well, that happened, right, I haven't Right after Schofield, we

226
00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:28,480
Speaker 18: want to.

227
00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:32,680
Speaker 3: Ask more about Michelle, but for now we keep Jeremy

228
00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:34,120
Speaker 3: talking about the cab driver.

229
00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:37,120
Speaker 18: I mean, you know, like I said, I broke into

230
00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:42,040
Speaker 18: a house. I'm scared to dead. This begun on me,

231
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:43,160
Speaker 18: you know.

232
00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:47,080
Speaker 3: So Jeremy mentions the same details he'd revealed in his

233
00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:50,400
Speaker 3: letters about finding the gun at a cops house. He

234
00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:54,800
Speaker 3: broke into an old three point fifty seven magnum. But

235
00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:58,600
Speaker 3: then he starts getting into more of a narrative and

236
00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:02,440
Speaker 3: his story it fits with the information we already knew

237
00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:03,160
Speaker 3: about the case.

238
00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:07,720
Speaker 18: So when I called it task and he took me

239
00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,480
Speaker 18: down there, and I was just gonna rob him. But

240
00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:14,640
Speaker 18: when I pointed the gun, I guess it just touched it.

241
00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:15,880
Speaker 4: Boom, you know.

242
00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:22,400
Speaker 18: It was it was like midnight. But then I got

243
00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:26,720
Speaker 18: a Task cab turn turned the car around. I was

244
00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:30,440
Speaker 18: kind of speeding, went over the tracks and I turned

245
00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:33,400
Speaker 18: and the car slid, you know because when the old

246
00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:36,360
Speaker 18: yellow taxi cab got they got the old.

247
00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:36,800
Speaker 4: Inches in it.

248
00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:40,840
Speaker 18: But then the car cat sliden, you know, and and

249
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,080
Speaker 18: hit the side of a car, and another car hit

250
00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:46,560
Speaker 18: that car, and the Task cab hit hit the pole

251
00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:47,800
Speaker 18: right and.

252
00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:51,560
Speaker 3: He runs his fingers across the table, drawing the streets

253
00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:55,360
Speaker 3: of Intercession City, and he uses his hands to show

254
00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:59,920
Speaker 3: us the route the taxicab traveled before it crashed, jarring.

255
00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:04,360
Speaker 3: He's hastily drawn tabletop map matches what we've been able

256
00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:08,680
Speaker 3: to piece together. But the most striking parts aren't the

257
00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:13,320
Speaker 3: details Jeremy's describing here. It's the way he's telling it,

258
00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:16,560
Speaker 3: shifting in his seat to mimic the feel of the

259
00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:20,800
Speaker 3: car as it slides into a crash. He's moving his

260
00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:25,080
Speaker 3: body as though he's reliving it. It feels like we're

261
00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,600
Speaker 3: in the car with him. I can't imagine a lie

262
00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:34,400
Speaker 3: being so embodied. Jeremy explains how after he hits the pole,

263
00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:37,360
Speaker 3: he jumps out of the taxi and sees a group

264
00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:40,600
Speaker 3: of people moving toward him to see if anyone is hurt.

265
00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:43,800
Speaker 18: But I yelled at I got the car. I said,

266
00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,720
Speaker 18: y'all run runs from a blow, right, And everybody just

267
00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:48,680
Speaker 18: took off running. I don't wanted to see my face.

268
00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:50,600
Speaker 18: So that's how it took all.

269
00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,280
Speaker 2: Did when you've crashed the cab, you thought it was

270
00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:55,920
Speaker 2: it might blow up.

271
00:16:56,400 --> 00:17:02,000
Speaker 18: Yeah, hit the light bolt, which is like sparking.

272
00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:05,800
Speaker 4: Nobody wants to take a chance.

273
00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:10,520
Speaker 3: This all matches what we know about the case. Witnesses

274
00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:14,200
Speaker 3: told the same story. One of the things we wanted

275
00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:16,399
Speaker 3: to know more about is that black hat found in

276
00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:19,040
Speaker 3: the taxi cab, the one with the skull and the

277
00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:21,160
Speaker 3: Confederate flag that was left on the back seat.

278
00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:23,480
Speaker 11: But we don't even have to bring it up.

279
00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:28,600
Speaker 18: I have a hat, and blonged to my cousin Jason Scott. Right,

280
00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,639
Speaker 18: he did now, right, but the head of the namement right,

281
00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:35,080
Speaker 18: and I left it in the car. I gave him

282
00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:38,800
Speaker 18: that kind of much evidence. I said, why would anything

283
00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:40,280
Speaker 18: in my family be in that car?

284
00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:42,359
Speaker 4: Almost straight up about it.

285
00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:46,399
Speaker 3: Jeremy seems shocked he never got caught. After killing the

286
00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,920
Speaker 3: cab driver and crashing the cab, he runs off into

287
00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:51,919
Speaker 3: the woods, and he says he hit out in an

288
00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:56,520
Speaker 3: empty house in Intercession City. He laid there for hours

289
00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,879
Speaker 3: under a blanket, just waiting for the police dogs to

290
00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:00,920
Speaker 3: come and sniff him out.

291
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:03,800
Speaker 18: I know it sooner later, it's going to come back

292
00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:07,280
Speaker 18: helm me. No, I just wait for It's a matter

293
00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:07,640
Speaker 18: of time.

294
00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:13,920
Speaker 3: But the dogs and the deputies they never come. Nothing

295
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:17,520
Speaker 3: comes back on him, and it's unclear if it ever will.

296
00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,679
Speaker 3: Jeremy is now given a full confession to the murder

297
00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,440
Speaker 3: of Joseph Laver, a confession to a thirty five year

298
00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:30,320
Speaker 3: old cold case. It's a remarkable moment, but given everything

299
00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:35,840
Speaker 3: we've been through, everything we've seen, not a terribly surprising one.

300
00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:40,239
Speaker 3: He'd already spontaneously confessed to his girlfriend Jamie Nellams more

301
00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:43,960
Speaker 3: than three decades ago, and his brother, Royal Dean seemed

302
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,440
Speaker 3: to be aware of it too. Jeremy had casually brought

303
00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:50,280
Speaker 3: it up to two investigators from the State as though

304
00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:53,119
Speaker 3: he was trying to see what they knew, But the

305
00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:57,240
Speaker 3: investigators laughed him off, and in a letter he'd written

306
00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:01,560
Speaker 3: to me, Jeremy had revealed some seriously incriminating information about

307
00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:05,199
Speaker 3: the murder. We'd taken this evidence to the Ninth Circuit

308
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:09,040
Speaker 3: State Attorney's office in the Osceola County Sheriff's Office more

309
00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:13,840
Speaker 3: than once. Even before this full confession, I thought for

310
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:17,320
Speaker 3: sure we'd collected enough to convince someone in power to

311
00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:21,240
Speaker 3: look into the physical evidence collected from the crime scene.

312
00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:25,360
Speaker 3: I mean, during the original investigation of the murder, fingerprints

313
00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:28,399
Speaker 3: were lifted from the taxi cab and hair was plucked

314
00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:32,800
Speaker 3: from the seats. The fingerprints and the hare could match

315
00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:37,080
Speaker 3: to Jeremy, but the Sheriff's office never got back to

316
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:40,199
Speaker 3: us about whether or not they test the evidence, or

317
00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:47,360
Speaker 3: if it still exists, whether the state will do anything

318
00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:51,320
Speaker 3: to officially close this case, clearing dan Odie's name and

319
00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:55,160
Speaker 3: bringing closure to the family of Joseph Lavere. That's yet

320
00:19:55,200 --> 00:20:00,600
Speaker 3: to be seen. And in the meantime, here's Jeremy freely

321
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:08,040
Speaker 3: admitting to the unsolved murder. He's coming clean, but if

322
00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:10,760
Speaker 3: nothing comes of it, it won't be the first time

323
00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:13,720
Speaker 3: in Jeremy's life that his efforts to tell the truth

324
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,760
Speaker 3: were disregarded by the State of Florida.

325
00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:27,399
Speaker 13: Hi, I'm Jason Flamm, CEO and founder of Lava for

326
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:30,840
Speaker 13: Good podcasts, home to Bone Valley, Wrongful Conviction, The War

327
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:34,440
Speaker 13: on Drugs, and many other great podcasts. Today we're asking you,

328
00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:37,560
Speaker 13: our listeners, to take part in a survey. Your feedback

329
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,480
Speaker 13: is going to help inform how we make podcasts in

330
00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:43,440
Speaker 13: the future. Your complete and candid answers will help us

331
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:47,119
Speaker 13: continue to bring you more insightful and inspiring stories about

332
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:50,280
Speaker 13: important topics that impact us all. So please go to

333
00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:53,879
Speaker 13: Lava for Good dot com slash survey and participate today.

334
00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:55,600
Speaker 13: Thank you for your support.

335
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:04,359
Speaker 5: Bone Valley is sponsored by Stand Together. Stand Together is

336
00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:08,480
Speaker 5: a philanthropic community that partners with America's boldest change makers

337
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,600
Speaker 5: to tackle the root causes of our country's biggest problems,

338
00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:17,119
Speaker 5: including the broken criminal justice system. Weldon Angelos is one

339
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,160
Speaker 5: of those change makers. At the age of twenty three,

340
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:23,280
Speaker 5: Weldon was arrested for a first time offense of selling

341
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:27,240
Speaker 5: weed to a confidential informant. At the time, he was

342
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:32,159
Speaker 5: a budding musician spending time with artists like Tupac, Snoop Dogg, Pink,

343
00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,720
Speaker 5: and Gnase. His entire life was ahead of him when

344
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,399
Speaker 5: he was sentenced to a mandatory fifty five years in

345
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:43,640
Speaker 5: federal prison without the possibility of early release. After serving

346
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:48,200
Speaker 5: thirteen years, a bipartisan effort led to him getting officially pardoned.

347
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:53,240
Speaker 5: Upon his release, he founded the Weldon Project, a nonprofit

348
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:56,600
Speaker 5: working to create better outcomes for those still in prison

349
00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:00,800
Speaker 5: that funds social change and provides financial aid for all

350
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:04,639
Speaker 5: those who were still serving time for cannabis related offenses.

351
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:09,160
Speaker 5: Weldon Angelos is one of the many entrepreneurs partnering would

352
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:14,480
Speaker 5: stand together to drive solutions in education, healthcare, poverty, and

353
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:18,240
Speaker 5: criminal justice. To learn more about the War on Drugs,

354
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:22,080
Speaker 5: listen to the War on Drugs podcast on Apple Podcasts

355
00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:30,960
Speaker 5: or wherever you get your podcasts.

356
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:41,200
Speaker 3: For a few minutes, I just want to talk about

357
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 3: John Aguero. Part of our investigation is into.

358
00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:46,160
Speaker 6: Some of the things that we said.

359
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 3: I wanted to ask Jeremy about the meeting he'd had

360
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:52,480
Speaker 3: with the prosecutor in two thousand and five. That was

361
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 3: the meeting that motivated John Aguero to close the investigation

362
00:22:56,160 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 3: into Jeremy for the murder of Michelle Schofield. During that meeting,

363
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:06,240
Speaker 3: Jeremy was brought from state prison into John Aguero's office.

364
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 3: There were no witnesses present, and Aguero did not record

365
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,959
Speaker 3: the meeting, so we only have John Aguero's account, the

366
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 3: one he testified to at Leo's evidentiary hearing in twenty ten.

367
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:24,920
Speaker 3: Now I want to hear Jeremy's side of the story.

368
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,640
Speaker 3: What kind of things do was Aguero telling you? When

369
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 3: they said, oh, we found your fingerprints in this car?

370
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:32,120
Speaker 3: How that will come out?

371
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,480
Speaker 4: He said, what was What was you doing with car?

372
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:39,159
Speaker 18: I said, I break in cars, I mean, and the

373
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,520
Speaker 18: ain't no secret what I do on the streets, you know.

374
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:47,080
Speaker 18: I told them basically everything I tell everybody else. What

375
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:49,919
Speaker 18: I couldn't use, I'm throw in the trash, you know,

376
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:51,880
Speaker 18: clean the car out the best I could.

377
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 9: You know.

378
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 4: That's why I said.

379
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,439
Speaker 18: I was probably when they said it pump run and

380
00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 18: only a shield, But that's when I jerk dack stereo

381
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 18: out in there.

382
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:08,400
Speaker 3: Jeremy, do you remember anything about John Aguero offering you immunity.

383
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:12,120
Speaker 18: He offered to sit on my hearing. He said, well

384
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 18: he has he has a.

385
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:15,640
Speaker 4: Lot of influence.

386
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 18: Pro hearing calm and it never happens.

387
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:24,920
Speaker 17: But he didn't mention immunity, like, he didn't say, no,

388
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 17: if you confess right now to killing Michelle, we won't

389
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:29,920
Speaker 17: charge you.

390
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,400
Speaker 2: You have immunity. He never said anything like that.

391
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,439
Speaker 4: No, he won't do that. He won't do that, So

392
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:35,920
Speaker 4: he didn't.

393
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 3: He didn't. You didn't ever hear him say that you

394
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 3: have immunity.

395
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 18: Okay, Oh he said it was I'm gonna be sitting

396
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 18: on your hearing. He said, what I say on that

397
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 18: hearing goes long ways, and he said, it's your freedom,

398
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:49,200
Speaker 18: and that's that's enough for me.

399
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,680
Speaker 3: We asked Jeremy about immunity three times because we want

400
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:58,640
Speaker 3: to be sure he understands. This is an important point.

401
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 3: The state has really on this story about John Aguero's

402
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:05,679
Speaker 3: offer of immunity so heavily to prove that Jeremy is

403
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 3: just a car stereo thief and not a murderer, because

404
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:14,439
Speaker 3: they reason if Jeremy really killed Michelle Schofield, he certainly

405
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:18,160
Speaker 3: would have said so when offered immunity. But we're not

406
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:22,400
Speaker 3: sure that Jeremy understands what immunity is, and he has

407
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 3: no recollection of any such offer from Aguero. Again, we've

408
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 3: tried and Leo's lawyers have tried to request documentation for

409
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:37,160
Speaker 3: this alleged immunity offer, but the state has never produced anything.

410
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 3: Jeremy remembers John Aguero offering a different kind of help

411
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:47,160
Speaker 3: that if Jeremy stuck to his stereo theft story, Aguero

412
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,640
Speaker 3: would help him with his parole. But that's not all

413
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 3: Jeremy says happened in John Aguero's office.

414
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 2: Did he did he ever ask you all about Michelle Blake?

415
00:25:59,040 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 2: Did he ask you?

416
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 3: Yeah?

417
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, I killed I told him I killed him.

418
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:10,639
Speaker 2: You said, total in the in the office when he

419
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 2: was asking about my.

420
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 18: Fingerprints, That's where I told him at when I told

421
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 18: him straight up, I said, I told him I had

422
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:17,480
Speaker 18: something to do it.

423
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 4: And he still didn't believe me.

424
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:22,959
Speaker 3: And he wasn't recording you or anything.

425
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 4: They're just me and him in office station, this me

426
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 4: and you.

427
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 3: Jeremy says that in that same meeting, Aguero showed him

428
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 3: aerial photos of the canal, and even though Michelle's body

429
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 3: can't be seen from that high above, Jeremy says he

430
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 3: pointed to the exact spot in the photo where her

431
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 3: body was found.

432
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 18: They showed me some pictures that the case of Michelle.

433
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 18: I had to point out areas to him where the

434
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 18: body was at, you know, because where the body was

435
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 18: at the only person put it there.

436
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 4: It is the person that put it there.

437
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 18: And I stressed that because I've seen the helicopter pictures

438
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 18: from both and I'm looking at him. I mean, he

439
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:14,360
Speaker 18: had him all laid out. There's no way you can't describe.

440
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 18: You can't describe nobody in that lake and I and

441
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 18: I pointed out to him.

442
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 4: That's how I know it.

443
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 3: Jeremy Scott claims he confessed to the murder of Michelle

444
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:29,640
Speaker 3: Schofield to assist in state Attorney John Aguero in two

445
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 3: thousand and five when he was confronted with the fingerprint evidence,

446
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 3: and according to Jeremy, Aguero told him he didn't want

447
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 3: to hear it. But you're very insistent. Aguero knew about

448
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 3: this all along.

449
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 4: He knew it.

450
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 18: He knew it was going to fall out like this.

451
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:51,919
Speaker 18: He knew, he knew everything, but he didn't care. But

452
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 18: when when, you know, well when when when it brought

453
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,919
Speaker 18: something up to him and didn't he didn't want to

454
00:27:57,920 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 18: hear that.

455
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 3: We can never know whether this conversation actually happened or not,

456
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 3: because John Aguero didn't record the meeting, and Aguero is

457
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 3: no longer alive. So what was John Aguero hoping to

458
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 3: accomplish in that room alone with Jeremy. Why would a

459
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 3: prosecutor go into a room with someone like Jeremy Scott

460
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 3: without a witness and without a tape recorder unless for

461
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 3: some reason he doesn't want to create a record of

462
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 3: that conversation. Why do you think the state will not

463
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 3: believe your confession?

464
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,680
Speaker 18: And I don't think it ain't that they don't believe me.

465
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 18: They don't want to They don't want to bring all

466
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 18: that back out undercover, you know, because I think there

467
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 18: probably is more stuff that married underneath that Guerrero still

468
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 18: and they just ain't never went and looking because if

469
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 18: you had to open him some of them cases, I mean,

470
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 18: you had to really investigate the prosecutor.

471
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 4: That's what he needs to be doing.

472
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 18: Yeah, Prosecutor's gonna go do what they gotta do.

473
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, It's like it's like.

474
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 18: It's like they knew that they knew when they brought

475
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 18: me in that day, they knew I had something to

476
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 18: do with that, But like they ain't got time to,

477
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 18: you know, to go through all these paperworking Yeah.

478
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 4: They're just trying to cover it up.

479
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,479
Speaker 18: Because all it is is gonna open more doors, and

480
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 18: he's gonna open more doors.

481
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 6: Yah h.

482
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 15: M m.

483
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 3: From where I was sitting, I could see him doing

484
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 3: a lot of fidgeting, and when when the conversation got

485
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 3: a little more difficult, he would definitely like start scratching

486
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 3: his arms and his hands. And at one point I

487
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 3: looked and I saw it. His fingers were sort of

488
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 3: facing me, and I remembered he had hate h a

489
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,959
Speaker 3: te across his knuckles, and you could see him sort

490
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 3: of scratching that.

491
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:05,239
Speaker 9: Well, I just reminded Gilbert that he has love on

492
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 9: the other hand, and you know, we'd seen that before

493
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 9: on documents, that he had these tattoos. And I think

494
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 9: there are a couple of times where hate is maybe

495
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,959
Speaker 9: the only tattoo mentioned, but you know, he does have

496
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 9: love on the other hand.

497
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 3: Your sort of letters started out saying you you came

498
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 3: back to Perry in Christmas eighty six.

499
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 18: And I stayed up there till to January. You know,

500
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 18: I left, I started walking back towards Pope County, that's

501
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 18: where I hang out at and I went back down

502
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 18: there and Brown February that's about about the time it

503
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 18: starts pouring down a rain and that's when that's when

504
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 18: when I ran into Michelle. It was February, it was

505
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 18: raining that night. But that's well, that's what all of again.

506
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 2: Could you tell us that story?

507
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 4: I found a good story to talk about it.

508
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 3: No, it's not. And you know what you're detailed in

509
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 3: the letter was was really very detailed. And you talked

510
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 3: about the gas station, and we just figured to hear

511
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 3: it in your.

512
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 18: Words, Yeah, this is a case. It should never happen.

513
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 18: It was just one of them out of flute things,

514
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 18: out of air, raining, starving, no place sleep.

515
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 9: Then we started kind of getting into the Michelle stuff.

516
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 9: And as soon as that happened, you know, he had

517
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 9: they have their like cloth face masks that are made

518
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:54,320
Speaker 9: out of the same material as their prison uniforms. So

519
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 9: he had his face mask in his hand and he

520
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:01,959
Speaker 9: started like folding it, you know, wrapping the strings, and

521
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 9: I could just tell he was starting to get anxious.

522
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 9: He knew, you know, the kind of stuff we were

523
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 9: going to be asking about.

524
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 3: So you walking down like Coumby road and you come

525
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 3: into this gas station and.

526
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:16,239
Speaker 4: You know, I was sitting, I was sitting there at

527
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 4: the bar.

528
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 18: She was on the phone talking to somebody and when

529
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 18: she got all she had I needed phone. I said no,

530
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 18: She said, why you all? You know, just ringing?

531
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 6: You know?

532
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 4: I said, God will ride, you know? So she gave

533
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 4: me a ride.

534
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 3: He said in one of your letters that she was

535
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 3: nice to you.

536
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 4: She was nice, gave me a ride.

537
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 18: And oh.

538
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 4: That's why.

539
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 18: That's where it hurts me more. M Girls like that, don't.

540
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 18: Girls like they don't don't don't pick up people.

541
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 3: Why do you think she picked you up? And were

542
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 3: you were a stranger to hers?

543
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 18: I don't think I was. Apparently because she's she, she

544
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 18: wanted to pick up anybody. Why that's what's been bothered me.

545
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 18: Apparently we know each other first, you know, a glance

546
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 18: or a brand at a party or something or a

547
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 18: school or whatever.

548
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 4: You know.

549
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 3: Hm hm, what did you tell Did you tell her

550
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 3: you want to take you somewhere? Or how did you just?

551
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 18: I asked her to take me down in North Colombe.

552
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 3: Did you guys talk about anything in the car as

553
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 3: you're riding. I'm just kind of quiet because it was

554
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 3: a short ride to where you were going. So what

555
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 3: happens when you take her back into that area.

556
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 18: I further apologized to her, but she went screaming and

557
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 18: panicing and stuff, and that's that's one of them. I

558
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 18: guess I lost it.

559
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 4: Then.

560
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 3: Was she saying anything to you or.

561
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 18: Just she just screamed and that was it. She ain't

562
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 18: saying every word.

563
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 3: You mentioned that she was hitting you. How did that happen?

564
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 18: You know, because she she's in a driver receipt right,

565
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 18: You just just like.

566
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 3: Not enough to really. But one of the things I

567
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 3: wanted to ask you about is and you wrote in

568
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:10,959
Speaker 3: one of your letters that at one point she tried

569
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 3: to drive away.

570
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:14,760
Speaker 4: Well that's I think that's what really.

571
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 18: Put the put the car in the heat really because

572
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 18: when she did I reached around her and grat that

573
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 18: that ship and couldn't couldn't park.

574
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:26,399
Speaker 4: And that was the last of that.

575
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 2: So when you say you lost it, what do you

576
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:35,720
Speaker 2: mean by that?

577
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 8: I mean.

578
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 18: Went sight. I'm not a very good person. Is in

579
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 18: the site department.

580
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 4: I got history.

581
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 9: From where I was sitting. I could see that his

582
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 9: his whole arm was just scar tissue. He had so many,

583
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 9: probably like hundreds of cut marks on his arms, which

584
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 9: is something we knew that you know, he had that

585
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 9: and that that was something he did. But you know,

586
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 9: sitting there, I yeah, well, I was trying not to stare.

587
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 2: You said you apologized to her. Huh you said you

588
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:25,280
Speaker 2: apologized to What did you apologize.

589
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 4: From what I'm doing?

590
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 2: What were you doing?

591
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 4: Still was going to steal the car.

592
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:35,840
Speaker 18: But then when she went down, that moved stuff and

593
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 18: I really got panic. M and that's when I had

594
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 18: that that that that that knife, it's just like a

595
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 18: it's a honey knife. They come in twins. They have

596
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,399
Speaker 18: belonged to my uncle's kids. I took one of them,

597
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 18: but I didn't think anything that would do that much

598
00:35:55,120 --> 00:36:00,080
Speaker 18: damage because they knew they ain't been sharp, and.

599
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 4: You know, they just got It's just it.

600
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:13,799
Speaker 18: It happened so fast, Yeah, because once it happened, it

601
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 18: just happened so fast.

602
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:23,319
Speaker 3: He doesn't get into the stabbing that much. He just says,

603
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:24,759
Speaker 3: I don't know how many times I stabbed or I

604
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:26,840
Speaker 3: lost it, and he just doesn't want to talk about it.

605
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 3: And I think it's trauma, that's that's. I just think

606
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:34,360
Speaker 3: that he's finding some self defense mechanism to sort of

607
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:36,800
Speaker 3: block out the worst parts of his memory. Because you

608
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 3: could tell how upsetting they were to him, and that

609
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,359
Speaker 3: was kind of surprising to me, Like this hardened. You know,

610
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,280
Speaker 3: killer who's been in prison, who's seen it, the worst

611
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 3: violence of anybody I'll ever meet. And you know, he

612
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 3: was emotional and he was definitely getting upset, and it

613
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:58,359
Speaker 3: I almost felt like we had a responsibility to sort

614
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 3: of protect him, to not go to far.

615
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:04,640
Speaker 9: He'd also gotten agitated in the past when people have

616
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,840
Speaker 9: tried to press him to get more into that, and

617
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 9: I didn't want to, you know, upset him and lose

618
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,320
Speaker 9: our chance to to talk to him further.

619
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 18: When I dragged her out of the car put her

620
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 18: on him, there was at like a plastic wrap around

621
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 18: down by the creek, So I wrapped wrapped in up

622
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 18: in that slid down by the creek and that and

623
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 18: put a plot box over it so it could be seen.

624
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,760
Speaker 3: Jeremy says that after wrapping Michelle and plastic, he dragged

625
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 3: her body into the water then took the Masda.

626
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 18: So I got in the car and if we try

627
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:50,799
Speaker 18: to go up by an I four and got half

628
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 18: way and it stoleed up.

629
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,320
Speaker 2: So when you went on, I for where were you headed?

630
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 4: Oh? My family?

631
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,800
Speaker 18: I got family living during Kasimi so I do a

632
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 18: lot of walking between Cassimi and pok County.

633
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:13,799
Speaker 2: But then the car stalled out. Was it like smoking or.

634
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 4: Making It's just like it's just stalled out. It's like,

635
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:20,319
Speaker 4: you know, when you're running an engine too much.

636
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 3: And so Michelle's car just stopped running. And Jeremy says

637
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,799
Speaker 3: the detectives must not have looked closely at the car

638
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 3: on the side of the I four, because he says

639
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 3: if they had, they would have asked the questions that

640
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 3: Kelsey and I had been asking ourselves, questions the state

641
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 3: never bothered with.

642
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 4: I was a car partner.

643
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 18: Why that's all it was was still, you know, because

644
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 18: putting too much gas on and try and move it

645
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:51,839
Speaker 18: and it stalled out.

646
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:54,319
Speaker 4: That's my car still stayed.

647
00:38:54,040 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 3: There when you were driving and the car broke down

648
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 3: and you mentioned something about finding a towel and using

649
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 3: that to wipe white everything.

650
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:07,840
Speaker 18: Now that I used that was that was tossing up

651
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,359
Speaker 18: in the in the bag, that was thrown it in

652
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:13,840
Speaker 18: a trash can. So but they still should have found

653
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 18: a lot of evidence. They should have found all that.

654
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 18: Instead it's just a fanger print. What about my my

655
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 18: what about my shoeprint? And the gas pump. Yeah, what

656
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:33,880
Speaker 18: about the steering wheel, the seats. See, they ain't do.

657
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:35,319
Speaker 4: The proper job.

658
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 3: Here we are inside a prison interviewing the man who

659
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 3: is claiming responsibility from Michelle Schofield's murder, and he's listing

660
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 3: all the ways the state of Florida failed to investigate

661
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 3: his crime. I think about the evidence that was found

662
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 3: but was never tested. The hair is found on the

663
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 3: car and on Michelle's body, and the scrapings from beneath

664
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 3: her fingernails. But by the time Jeremy was linked to

665
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:11,839
Speaker 3: the Mazda, much of the untested evidence had been destroyed

666
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 3: or degraded. And at the same time, Jeremy says he

667
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 3: did make an attempt to clean up. You know, it

668
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:22,319
Speaker 3: is interesting what you're saying, because they did. They never

669
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:24,880
Speaker 3: found any of the Schofield prints in the car. They

670
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 3: weren't there, So it sort of fits that you wiped

671
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,399
Speaker 3: it down. Were you pretty careful about that or.

672
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 4: That particular night there?

673
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:35,879
Speaker 17: Oh?

674
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:42,319
Speaker 18: Good, ikick, I want probation, right, so I had to

675
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:42,840
Speaker 18: be careful.

676
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:48,399
Speaker 3: We've gone through Leo's story from the night Michelle went

677
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:53,360
Speaker 3: missing and the States version that was presented to the jury,

678
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 3: but now we're able to piece together Jeremy's story through

679
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 3: what he's telling us, what he's written to us through letters,

680
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:07,799
Speaker 3: and what he's told Leo's lawyers in the past. It's

681
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 3: the night of February twenty fourth, nineteen eighty seven. Jeremy

682
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 3: comes upon a young woman using the payphone at a

683
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:22,280
Speaker 3: gas station on Cumby Road. He'd been drinking Thunderbird wine

684
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 3: that night, and he admits that wine makes him violent.

685
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:31,920
Speaker 3: It's drizzling out and he's broke, and the young woman

686
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:37,320
Speaker 3: sees him standing there. She says, I know you. Jeremy

687
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 3: doesn't recognize her, but it's Michelle Schofield. He says he's

688
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 3: not good with faces, and he guesses she must remember

689
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 3: him from a party or something. When she asks if

690
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:52,280
Speaker 3: he needs the phone, he says no, he needs a ride.

691
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:56,799
Speaker 3: Just up Comby Road. Jeremy gets in the passenger seat

692
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 3: of the Mazda and gives Michelle directions. He asks her

693
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 3: to take him to a trailer park on North Cumby Road,

694
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:05,319
Speaker 3: but they drive past it.

695
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:07,239
Speaker 11: Instead.

696
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 3: He directs her a little further onto State Road thirty three,

697
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:15,439
Speaker 3: then has her turn right onto a dirt road through

698
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 3: a cut in the tree line. There are no houses

699
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:23,520
Speaker 3: back here, Michelle tells him. Jeremy makes some kind of comment,

700
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:27,480
Speaker 3: this is where people come to make out at He's

701
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:31,399
Speaker 3: thinking maybe he can get laid, but Michelle tells him

702
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 3: she's married. Jeremy fumbles in his jacket pocket. He says

703
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:41,240
Speaker 3: he reaches for his cigarettes, but his knife falls out.

704
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:45,080
Speaker 3: He must have threatened her. Whether it was to steal

705
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:49,720
Speaker 3: her car or to rape her, it's unclear, but Jeremy says.

706
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 3: Michelle sees the knife and panics. She tries to drive away,

707
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:59,760
Speaker 3: but he slams the car into park. She starts hitting him,

708
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 3: and that's when Jeremy says he lost it and he

709
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 3: attacked her for whatever reason. Jeremy either can't or won't

710
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 3: elaborate on the actual act itself. He says he doesn't

711
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 3: remember how many times he stabbed her. He also says

712
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 3: the stabbing took place in the car, but listening to

713
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 3: him tell it, I got the sense that the stabbing

714
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:28,360
Speaker 3: began in the car. Michelle managed to open the door,

715
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:32,919
Speaker 3: and Jeremy says she fell out onto the dirt where

716
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:37,719
Speaker 3: her blood was found. I killed her, he says, and

717
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:45,880
Speaker 3: he leaves it at that. Jeremy says that after the attack,

718
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:49,280
Speaker 3: he wrapped Michelle up in some plastic he found nearby

719
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 3: and dragged her down to the canal. Then he put

720
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 3: a piece of plywood on top of her to protect

721
00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:59,919
Speaker 3: her from the snakes.

722
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 11: And gaiters, he says.

723
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:04,879
Speaker 3: He then gets back in the car and sees ten

724
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:09,240
Speaker 3: dollars in the center console, which he pockets. He smokes

725
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 3: a cigarette, then takes off in the Mazda. He drives

726
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:16,279
Speaker 3: about half a mile north and merges onto I four.

727
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 3: He gets six or so miles east when the Mazda

728
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:25,239
Speaker 3: stalls out and he's forced to pull over. Once the

729
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:29,320
Speaker 3: car grinds to a stop, Jeremy grabs something like a towel,

730
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:31,880
Speaker 3: he says, and he starts wiping the car down to

731
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 3: remove his fingerprints. There's a gas station off the exit

732
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:39,280
Speaker 3: ramp at the top of the hill, so Jeremy heads

733
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:42,799
Speaker 3: there with the towel and the knife. It's late and

734
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:45,720
Speaker 3: the gas station is closed, but he sees a dumpster

735
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 3: and buries the knife in the towel in the trash.

736
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 3: He crosses the highway to hitchhike back to Lakeland, but

737
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 3: when he sees the Mazda again, he decides to steal

738
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 3: the stereo.

739
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 11: He can't pry it out, so he.

740
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 3: Steals the equalizer mounted to the dash below it, and

741
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:07,359
Speaker 3: he takes the speakers from the back. He makes it

742
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:11,440
Speaker 3: back to Lakeland somehow and falls asleep in an abandoned trailer.

743
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:19,960
Speaker 3: There are several parts of Jeremy's story that stand out

744
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:22,880
Speaker 3: to me because they match other evidence I've seen or

745
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:27,760
Speaker 3: piece together. At times, he offers an explanation for things

746
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:32,840
Speaker 3: the state never even attempted to explain. For one, the

747
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:35,799
Speaker 3: state never presented a theory about why the car was

748
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 3: found on the eastbound side of I four miles outside

749
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:46,319
Speaker 3: of Lakeland, but Jeremy does. After killing Michelle, he says

750
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:50,319
Speaker 3: he was headed toward Kassimi, where he had family. That's

751
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:54,240
Speaker 3: the direction the Mazda was heading. That's also the direction

752
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 3: he would drive the following year in nineteen eighty eight,

753
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 3: when he went to his mom's trailer after killing Donald

754
00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:06,480
Speaker 3: Morehead and stealing his Chevy Bretta. The state doesn't dwell

755
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:11,240
Speaker 3: on the Mazda's condition or location. It's Jeremy who accounts

756
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 3: for this and describes what it felt like driving the

757
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 3: vehicle as it broke down. And then there's the evidence

758
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:23,320
Speaker 3: Jeremy left in the car. One of his fingerprints was

759
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 3: lifted from inside of the driver's side window. Another fingerprint

760
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 3: was found in the back of the vehicle where the

761
00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 3: speakers were. It was on a receipt near the downy

762
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:38,360
Speaker 3: bottle that was smeared with Michelle's blood. I've spent so

763
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 3: much time studying the photos taken from the crime scene.

764
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:44,440
Speaker 3: I've tried to piece together the events based on the

765
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 3: location of the blood stains, the drag marks in the dirt,

766
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 3: and the location of Michelle's body. Michelle's blood is pooled

767
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:56,319
Speaker 3: in the dirt. The stains are where the driver's side

768
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 3: of the Mazda would be if it turned onto the

769
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:02,719
Speaker 3: narrow dirt road beside the canal. So the location of

770
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:07,239
Speaker 3: the bloodstains are consistent with Jeremy's telling that after he

771
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 3: stabbed her, she opened the door and fell out of

772
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:14,320
Speaker 3: the car. I think Jeremy then got out of the car,

773
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 3: came around to her side, and continued to stab her

774
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:20,320
Speaker 3: in that spot, I think that's where she was killed.

775
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 3: That's where most of her blood was found. There are

776
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:28,560
Speaker 3: drag marks leading from the bloodstains to the canal, and

777
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:32,880
Speaker 3: coins a quarter a nickel and a penny in the

778
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:36,840
Speaker 3: dirt alongside the path of the drag marks. They must

779
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:39,720
Speaker 3: have fallen from Michelle's pockets while Jeremy.

780
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 11: Was dragging her.

781
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:46,320
Speaker 3: Jeremy says he wrapped Michelle's body in plastic. Police never

782
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 3: collected any plastic from the scene, but if you look

783
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:53,880
Speaker 3: at the crime scene photos, you can see several plastic tarps,

784
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:58,960
Speaker 3: just like Jeremy describes, right there among the garbage, but

785
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 3: they weren't taken into evidence. If Jeremy's telling the truth,

786
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:07,400
Speaker 3: one of those plastic sheets may have had Michelle's blood

787
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 3: on it or Jeremy's fingerprints. And there's another thing in

788
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 3: those police photos that caught my eye. A pack of

789
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:20,759
Speaker 3: Marlborough cigarettes. Were you smoking too? You said something about

790
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:21,359
Speaker 3: going in the car.

791
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 4: And smoke, Yeah, I Smarts cigarettes.

792
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:28,040
Speaker 3: Back man, what kind of cigarettes did you smoke?

793
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:29,400
Speaker 4: Marlborough's?

794
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 3: Okay, this pack of Marlborough's wasn't far from the bloodstains

795
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 3: and the drag marks. And again it was photographed like evidence,

796
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:43,879
Speaker 3: but it was never taken in, never processed for fingerprints.

797
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:48,480
Speaker 3: Why did police photograph this pack of Marlborough's but not collected.

798
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 3: There's one other thing that I've been hung up on

799
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:57,400
Speaker 3: these past three years. No one, none of Michelle's family,

800
00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 3: none of her friends or coworkers, ever claimed to have

801
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 3: seen her or spoken with her in the hours following

802
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 3: that final nine to forty five pm phone call that

803
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:11,920
Speaker 3: she made to Leo from the payphone at Sparky's gas station.

804
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 3: If Leo supposedly killed Michelle in a fit of rage

805
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,400
Speaker 3: right after his twelve forty three am phone call to

806
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:23,399
Speaker 3: the Polk County Sheriff's office, where was Michelle during those

807
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:27,440
Speaker 3: three hours after she called Leo? She said she'd be

808
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 3: right over, but she never showed so who was she with?

809
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:36,359
Speaker 3: What was she doing? The state could not produce a

810
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 3: single witness to answer these questions about Michelle's whereabouts. After

811
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:46,720
Speaker 3: hearing Jeremy's version of events, the answer seems pretty obvious

812
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:50,439
Speaker 3: to me. Michelle never made it to Leo that night

813
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:55,319
Speaker 3: because she ran into Jeremy Scott. He approached her at

814
00:49:55,320 --> 00:50:01,600
Speaker 3: the payphone, and then minutes later she was dead. That's

815
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:04,279
Speaker 3: why no one else can claim they heard from her

816
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:10,120
Speaker 3: or saw her within those three hours. Jeremy Scott was

817
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:16,719
Speaker 3: the last person to see Michelle Schofield alive. What was

818
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:19,400
Speaker 3: going through your mind? After you did all this and

819
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 3: you took the car, where were you thinking, like, I'm

820
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:23,799
Speaker 3: gonna just drive back to Kasimi or.

821
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:27,239
Speaker 4: I'll be honest with you. That's my whole point.

822
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:30,800
Speaker 18: I wasn't thinking, because if I was, I would have

823
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 18: never even and done what I did. That's something that

824
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 18: should never happen. It wasn't planning. That shouldn't that shouldn't

825
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:47,399
Speaker 18: never happen. I should have swallowed up pride and went

826
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:56,279
Speaker 18: to it one time, went to Salvation Army. Everybody was,

827
00:50:56,920 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 18: you know, February reigning. I wannt to know a whole lot

828
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 18: of a whole lot I could think about it. I

829
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:08,680
Speaker 18: mean back then, when you're young, you don't be thinking

830
00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 18: that's the thing.

831
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:15,320
Speaker 4: Until it's over with, and then then reality hiss you.

832
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:19,880
Speaker 18: Then years go by, and that's when really the reality

833
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:25,080
Speaker 18: really hiss you. Yeah, cause cause you c I have

834
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 18: to live with this every day.

835
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 2: Can you describe that? What does it like to live.

836
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 4: With the.

837
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:35,040
Speaker 13: Uh?

838
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 4: It's sound a girl's feeling? Well this way? This just

839
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:39,680
Speaker 4: put it anyway.

840
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:44,360
Speaker 18: I I dream, I wake up, I turn over, I say,

841
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:47,880
Speaker 18: I see a dead body seeking next to me. I

842
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:50,239
Speaker 18: see with dead bodies every night when I go to bed.

843
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:59,440
Speaker 18: I that's I punishment. That shit gets me so scared.

844
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:04,319
Speaker 18: I sleep with it every night.

845
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:07,359
Speaker 4: Drug me. That's not a good sight.

846
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:13,240
Speaker 3: M Is that part of the reason that you're talking

847
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:16,719
Speaker 3: to us, But you're just thinking about these things I've been.

848
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:21,319
Speaker 18: I've been, it's been getting it's been one that come

849
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:24,839
Speaker 18: out though, you know, it's just a matter of time

850
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 18: because if I don't say now, it's not guaranteed.

851
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:30,360
Speaker 4: I'm i'm 'a i'm'a i'm'a.

852
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:32,440
Speaker 18: Walk down that sidewalk and I'm waked out getting stabbed up,

853
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 18: you know, because you don't know what's gonna happen out here.

854
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:41,160
Speaker 18: You know, you know, cause man might put a hit

855
00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:43,839
Speaker 18: on you, and it.

856
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:46,879
Speaker 2: It feels important to you to to talk about it.

857
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:49,160
Speaker 4: It it it, it does.

858
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:53,120
Speaker 18: I mean, it ain't gonna never, ain't gonna change. I

859
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:59,239
Speaker 18: mean it can change. It ain't gonna change nothing from me,

860
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:03,239
Speaker 18: but it can change something for her, you know, ain't

861
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:05,440
Speaker 18: know she ain't here but for her family though.

862
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 9: You know.

863
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:11,239
Speaker 2: One of the things we did last is it's just

864
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:14,960
Speaker 2: if you if you ever think about Michelle.

865
00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:18,400
Speaker 18: Now, I do all the time. I pray for her

866
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:21,480
Speaker 18: every day. For me, when I lay down. I sleep

867
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:27,560
Speaker 18: with her, can't get out, can't get away. That's a nightmare.

868
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:32,360
Speaker 2: What do you pray about, M?

869
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:38,400
Speaker 18: I just pray for a lot of things. Her bad spirits.

870
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:47,839
Speaker 18: M I mess with the spirits too much. But now,

871
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:52,919
Speaker 18: as far as Michelle, she was just at a wrong time,

872
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 18: wrong place, and everything happens.

873
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:02,959
Speaker 4: When you're young and not think can she deserves better

874
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:03,239
Speaker 4: than that.

875
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:15,120
Speaker 18: And she she'll get it. I think once this gets

876
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:24,600
Speaker 18: cleared up, she can breast. But first far as Leo,

877
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:28,400
Speaker 18: I don't I don't need to speak for.

878
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:32,319
Speaker 4: For this case. Yeah, Leo, Leo, Leo.

879
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:37,319
Speaker 18: And because of all of all things, he's innocent on

880
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:37,759
Speaker 18: this one.

881
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:41,360
Speaker 2: Hm. I.

882
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:48,600
Speaker 18: I've been trying to help him, doing everything I could. MH,

883
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:54,799
Speaker 18: I'm trying to help you out, but they don't want

884
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:59,640
Speaker 18: me to help him out. Man, man have been in

885
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:00,839
Speaker 18: prison thirty three years.

886
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 4: He needs to be up.

887
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:08,080
Speaker 18: That man ain't doing nothing. He's innocenter.

888
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:46,000
Speaker 3: We sat down with Leo before we interviewed Jeremy. He

889
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:48,320
Speaker 3: has a copy of one of the letters Jeremy wrote

890
00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:51,359
Speaker 3: to me. It meant more to Leo than I could

891
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:55,720
Speaker 3: have known. Leo now carries it around with him folded

892
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:59,640
Speaker 3: up and tucked into the pocket of his blue prison uniform.

893
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:02,360
Speaker 3: You know that I received a letter from Jeremy a

894
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:03,120
Speaker 3: couple of weeks ago.

895
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:06,000
Speaker 8: Yeah, I carried around in my pocket every day except today.

896
00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:07,399
Speaker 8: They don't let me bring anything here.

897
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:09,120
Speaker 3: What did you think of it?

898
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:15,239
Speaker 8: Well, obviously I believe that he's the murder of my life.

899
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:18,319
Speaker 8: I believe he's also been trying to say that for

900
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:19,000
Speaker 8: a long time.

901
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:24,080
Speaker 3: The letter that Leo carries with him is one of

902
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:28,480
Speaker 3: the first letters I received from Jeremy. It says, in part,

903
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:31,600
Speaker 3: dear mister King, I don't know what it is that

904
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:35,400
Speaker 3: you want to know about Polk County prosecutors. They lied.

905
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:38,680
Speaker 11: That's why I told the whole truth.

906
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:42,240
Speaker 3: About Leo Schofield. And I had also told them things

907
00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:46,320
Speaker 3: that a killer would know. Leo didn't kill his wife.

908
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:47,680
Speaker 3: I did.

909
00:56:57,200 --> 00:57:00,799
Speaker 8: I read those words Leo didn't kill his wife. I

910
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:06,359
Speaker 8: did very simple verb. When I first read it. I'm

911
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:08,839
Speaker 8: not kidding. I had chills, and I get chills every

912
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:13,200
Speaker 8: time I do it, because he's nothing like I was expecting.

913
00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:15,719
Speaker 4: He's not the.

914
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:19,920
Speaker 8: Three headed monster that had to have done something like

915
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:22,600
Speaker 8: this to someone as wonderful and beautiful as Michelle was.

916
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:25,960
Speaker 8: You have to be a monster to do that, and

917
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:29,160
Speaker 8: he's not. He's just a pathetic human being that's been

918
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:30,600
Speaker 8: messed up.

919
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:31,440
Speaker 12: You know.

920
00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:33,480
Speaker 8: He's had a really rough go as I'm sure you're

921
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:36,520
Speaker 8: aware of now, even in the prison, and I do

922
00:57:36,560 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 8: believe he's sorry. But it just shows you that he

923
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:41,520
Speaker 8: has a halt. He does have a halt. You know

924
00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:43,840
Speaker 8: that he's not a monster. He's not what I was

925
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:47,040
Speaker 8: looking for. You know, I've always wanted the truth, and

926
00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:50,800
Speaker 8: I thank him for the truth. We both, in different worlds,

927
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:53,520
Speaker 8: needed redemption over the same issue.

928
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:54,160
Speaker 10: You know.

929
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:55,760
Speaker 8: When I look in the mirror, I got to look

930
00:57:55,800 --> 00:57:58,560
Speaker 8: at a man who let his wife get murdered, you know,

931
00:57:58,640 --> 00:58:01,640
Speaker 8: and at some point I needed redemption. I needed to

932
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:04,560
Speaker 8: be rebuilt into something that I could live with, you know.

933
00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:07,120
Speaker 8: And I see Jeremy in that same light, you know,

934
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:10,680
Speaker 8: in a different frame, a different storyline. You know, he's

935
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:15,480
Speaker 8: he's the he's the one who put all this into play.

936
00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:18,440
Speaker 8: You know, he's the man holding the knife, and so

937
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:21,720
Speaker 8: he needs his own redemption, you know, And you know what,

938
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:24,360
Speaker 8: I thank God for that. I thank God for that,

939
00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:27,240
Speaker 8: because without that, I don't think we have a get

940
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:30,680
Speaker 8: to the bottom of it. And very few people know

941
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:31,240
Speaker 8: the truth.

942
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:32,480
Speaker 7: You know.

943
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:36,000
Speaker 8: Now there's a bigger story to tell, you know, and

944
00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:41,840
Speaker 8: where it goes from here, we'll see.

945
00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:47,840
Speaker 3: It's been more than three years since Judge Scott cup

946
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:51,200
Speaker 3: first handed me his business card, three years since I

947
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:52,560
Speaker 3: first read the words.

948
00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:54,640
Speaker 11: He'd written on the back, Leo.

949
00:58:54,520 --> 00:59:01,000
Speaker 3: Schofield not just wrongfully convicted, He's an innocent man. In

950
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:04,400
Speaker 3: the time since, Kelsey and I have spent twenty plus

951
00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:08,120
Speaker 3: hours sitting across a table from Leo in a cinderblock

952
00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:10,960
Speaker 3: prison room, listening to him talk about the moments of

953
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:15,320
Speaker 3: his adolescence that came to define his entire life. I

954
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:18,480
Speaker 3: have dozens of letters and emails from him, and we

955
00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:22,560
Speaker 3: talk regularly on the phone, and I'm in constant touch

956
00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:26,439
Speaker 3: with his family. Leo's daughter, Ashley is now a mother

957
00:59:26,560 --> 00:59:31,640
Speaker 3: with two baby boys. Today, Leo's grandsons visit him on

958
00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:35,600
Speaker 3: that same patch of grass outside the visitation pavilion where

959
00:59:35,600 --> 00:59:39,920
Speaker 3: he says he raised Ashley. Even the guards at Hardy

960
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:43,640
Speaker 3: who know Chrissy and Ashley and the boys, they tell

961
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:46,040
Speaker 3: us they don't want to see Leo's grandsons grow up

962
00:59:46,120 --> 00:59:49,720
Speaker 3: visiting the prison. They know Leo needs to be home

963
00:59:51,440 --> 00:59:54,840
Speaker 3: when Leo had opportunities to have his case reviewed in court.

964
00:59:55,600 --> 00:59:59,040
Speaker 3: I shared in his hope for justice, and when those

965
00:59:59,080 --> 01:00:01,400
Speaker 3: opportunities were to I.

966
01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:02,680
Speaker 11: Shared in the heartbreak.

967
01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:08,480
Speaker 3: With no realistic legal options left to pursue, Leo's waiting

968
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:12,480
Speaker 3: on his next parole hearing, where once again Leo will

969
01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:15,400
Speaker 3: refuse to apologize for a crime he did not commit,

970
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:19,840
Speaker 3: and once again the state will argue against his parole

971
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:24,640
Speaker 3: because of this. So he's waiting on parole and he's

972
01:00:24,680 --> 01:00:32,360
Speaker 3: waiting on this story to come out. I'm acutely aware

973
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:35,080
Speaker 3: of the hope this project has given Leo and his family.

974
01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:36,360
Speaker 11: It's conflicting.

975
01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:39,480
Speaker 3: I believe in his story, and I'm honored to be

976
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:42,040
Speaker 3: able to tell it, but I also know that there

977
01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:45,360
Speaker 3: are no guarantees it'll make any difference in Leo's life.

978
01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:49,080
Speaker 3: I wish I could make those promises, but I know

979
01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:49,640
Speaker 3: I can't.

980
01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:53,160
Speaker 8: I don't even want to say thank you anymore, Gilbert,

981
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:54,240
Speaker 8: I can't say any of that.

982
01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:56,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, but it's my heart.

983
01:00:56,360 --> 01:00:59,000
Speaker 3: No, we wouldn't be here if we didn't believe in this, Gilul.

984
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:01,080
Speaker 8: I wouldn't be here if you didn't believe in this stuff.

985
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:05,240
Speaker 8: I would not be here if you did not believe

986
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:08,160
Speaker 8: in this stuff. And I am dead serious about that

987
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:11,960
Speaker 8: because I am tired. I am tired. I don't carry

988
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:13,880
Speaker 8: just my hurt. I carry the hurt of my family.

989
01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:16,040
Speaker 8: I carry a ton of hurt of the men that

990
01:01:16,080 --> 01:01:19,120
Speaker 8: I serve here. I mean, every single one of them

991
01:01:19,160 --> 01:01:21,640
Speaker 8: come to me every day. When are you getting on

992
01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:23,880
Speaker 8: her here? You know what I mean? And I carry

993
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:28,800
Speaker 8: a lot and it's heavy, It's freaking heavy, and sometimes

994
01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:31,280
Speaker 8: I get hopeless. Sometimes I feel like it's getting so

995
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:34,040
Speaker 8: far away and I'm going in the wrong direction.

996
01:01:34,120 --> 01:01:35,560
Speaker 3: And it's just the feeling.

997
01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:38,360
Speaker 8: I'm not saying that it is, you know, in this confession,

998
01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:41,720
Speaker 8: just it's like how many times do I got to

999
01:01:41,720 --> 01:01:43,760
Speaker 8: hear it? How many times does he have to say it?

1000
01:01:44,920 --> 01:01:48,040
Speaker 3: I get it. But we're putting this story together and.

1001
01:01:47,960 --> 01:01:51,120
Speaker 8: I think, I just don't want you to underplay your part. No,

1002
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:56,320
Speaker 8: you can't. My life depended on it. You gave me

1003
01:01:56,360 --> 01:01:58,400
Speaker 8: the hope, Gilbert, that's the truth.

1004
01:01:58,520 --> 01:02:01,600
Speaker 3: You gave me. This s guy knows Scott felt like

1005
01:02:01,640 --> 01:02:03,560
Speaker 3: he gave you hope one time, and he did and

1006
01:02:03,600 --> 01:02:03,919
Speaker 3: he did.

1007
01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:06,360
Speaker 8: Yeah, But you know what, it's the relationship that I

1008
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:07,880
Speaker 8: have with him that sustains me.

1009
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:08,400
Speaker 3: Even now.

1010
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:10,800
Speaker 8: I love that man. He's a brother to me. I

1011
01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:13,240
Speaker 8: love that man, and I'm not going to let him down,

1012
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:13,800
Speaker 8: and I'm not.

1013
01:02:13,720 --> 01:02:14,560
Speaker 3: Going to let you down.

1014
01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:18,760
Speaker 8: And I'm sustained that way. So it doesn't matter what happens.

1015
01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:22,920
Speaker 8: It matters that people have bonded. You know, we've become

1016
01:02:23,200 --> 01:02:27,400
Speaker 8: a family of sorts. That matters. That matters, It counts

1017
01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:31,080
Speaker 8: because it's all I got, That's it, and you know what,

1018
01:02:31,560 --> 01:02:34,640
Speaker 8: it's all I need, that's all I need.

1019
01:02:39,560 --> 01:02:42,080
Speaker 3: Leo is trying to reassure me that he's going to

1020
01:02:42,080 --> 01:02:45,600
Speaker 3: be okay regardless of what happens after the story comes out,

1021
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:50,600
Speaker 3: because after thirty five years, he knows better than to

1022
01:02:50,640 --> 01:03:00,480
Speaker 3: hope for anything more. From the state of Floridaber of

1023
01:03:00,520 --> 01:03:03,280
Speaker 3: twenty twenty one, Leo is going to be playing a

1024
01:03:03,320 --> 01:03:06,320
Speaker 3: concert one afternoon at Harty with his band, The Watchers.

1025
01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:10,360
Speaker 3: We couldn't get permission to record, but I decided to

1026
01:03:10,400 --> 01:03:13,200
Speaker 3: fly down for the concert anyway, knowing what it would

1027
01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:16,800
Speaker 3: mean to Leo to have me there. I just wanted

1028
01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:18,840
Speaker 3: to see him with his bandmates and the men in

1029
01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:26,840
Speaker 3: his congregation, his brothers. The assistant warden meets me at

1030
01:03:26,840 --> 01:03:30,840
Speaker 3: security and escorts me to the God behind bars building.

1031
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:34,960
Speaker 3: As we're walking, I see a flyer posted to a

1032
01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:40,600
Speaker 3: wall announcing the concert the Watchers. It reads with special

1033
01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:45,360
Speaker 3: guest Gilbert King. Once I get inside, I see Leo

1034
01:03:45,560 --> 01:03:48,880
Speaker 3: surrounded by his brothers. They're all in their prison blue

1035
01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:52,840
Speaker 3: uniforms with white stripes down the pants. He comes over,

1036
01:03:53,120 --> 01:03:57,280
Speaker 3: We hug, and he introduces me to his bandmates. They

1037
01:03:57,320 --> 01:04:00,680
Speaker 3: all tell me they've been passing around the same taped up.

1038
01:04:00,320 --> 01:04:01,760
Speaker 11: Of my book, Devil on the Grove.

1039
01:04:02,720 --> 01:04:04,680
Speaker 3: It's a book I sent to Leo more than three

1040
01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:09,080
Speaker 3: years ago. They all thank me for looking into Leo's case.

1041
01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:14,800
Speaker 3: Inside this building, the inmates move around freely, joking and

1042
01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:19,200
Speaker 3: drinking coffee. There are very few guards. You get the

1043
01:04:19,240 --> 01:04:22,240
Speaker 3: sense that nobody's really worried about the men here, who

1044
01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:26,720
Speaker 3: continue to file in for the concert. Before the Watchers

1045
01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:29,960
Speaker 3: take the stage, Leo says he wants to show me something,

1046
01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:33,720
Speaker 3: so he leads me and the assistant warden through the

1047
01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:38,200
Speaker 3: library to a door in the back. It's the war Room,

1048
01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:43,000
Speaker 3: that small gray room tacked with prayer requests, the place

1049
01:04:43,040 --> 01:04:46,200
Speaker 3: where Leo came, in his darkest of times, to pray

1050
01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:52,320
Speaker 3: for Jeremy Scott, trying to forgive him. Leo steps inside

1051
01:04:52,520 --> 01:04:56,200
Speaker 3: and gets noticeably choked up. He knows, I'm aware of

1052
01:04:56,240 --> 01:05:00,000
Speaker 3: the story that in twenty sixteen, just a few days

1053
01:05:00,320 --> 01:05:04,080
Speaker 3: after tacking up his prayer request for Jeremy Scott, Leo

1054
01:05:04,200 --> 01:05:09,480
Speaker 3: received the news that Jeremy confessed to killing Michelle. But

1055
01:05:09,560 --> 01:05:12,800
Speaker 3: the assistant warden is new and as Leo begins to

1056
01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:16,840
Speaker 3: explain the significance of this room to him, he catches himself,

1057
01:05:17,440 --> 01:05:21,400
Speaker 3: realizing this story is too long and complicated for a

1058
01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:25,040
Speaker 3: stranger to absorb, so he just tells us that the

1059
01:05:25,040 --> 01:05:27,680
Speaker 3: inmates are lucky to have a place and a program

1060
01:05:27,800 --> 01:05:31,280
Speaker 3: like this at Hardy, and the assistant warden seems pleased

1061
01:05:31,320 --> 01:05:35,360
Speaker 3: to hear it. As we move toward the stage, I

1062
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:40,600
Speaker 3: meet Leo's longtime friend, cellmate and songwriting partner Kevin Herrick.

1063
01:05:41,680 --> 01:05:44,600
Speaker 3: Leo taught him to play guitar more than twenty years ago,

1064
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:49,000
Speaker 3: when Kevin first came to Hardy. Kevin also tells me

1065
01:05:49,480 --> 01:05:51,640
Speaker 3: Leo taught him how to be a man and a

1066
01:05:51,640 --> 01:05:56,360
Speaker 3: man of God, he says. Leo takes the stage and

1067
01:05:56,400 --> 01:05:59,919
Speaker 3: picks up the mic to rousing applause. There's a full

1068
01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:02,840
Speaker 3: drum set and a keyboard in amps ready to go.

1069
01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:07,120
Speaker 3: Leo's got reading glasses on and he's carrying a leather

1070
01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:10,760
Speaker 3: bound Bible in his hands. He tells the crowd that

1071
01:06:10,800 --> 01:06:13,480
Speaker 3: it's not God's plan for them to be destroyed in

1072
01:06:13,560 --> 01:06:17,240
Speaker 3: this prison, and he begins a sermon on self worth

1073
01:06:17,400 --> 01:06:22,080
Speaker 3: and dignity. Then Leo points to me in the audience.

1074
01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:24,800
Speaker 3: He might not look at but this man is a

1075
01:06:24,840 --> 01:06:28,480
Speaker 3: friggin bulldog, he says, And then he tells the story

1076
01:06:28,520 --> 01:06:31,560
Speaker 3: about how Judge Scott Kupp handed me a business card

1077
01:06:31,560 --> 01:06:34,320
Speaker 3: with Leo's name on it, and how Kelsey and I

1078
01:06:34,360 --> 01:06:38,360
Speaker 3: have been investigating his case for years. I stand up,

1079
01:06:38,640 --> 01:06:42,560
Speaker 3: not expecting this, and say something about storytelling and how

1080
01:06:42,640 --> 01:06:45,080
Speaker 3: honored I feel to be invited to share this time

1081
01:06:45,080 --> 01:06:49,880
Speaker 3: with them, before giving the mic back to Leo. Leo's

1082
01:06:49,880 --> 01:07:07,680
Speaker 3: glasses come off and the music begins. Inmates clap and

1083
01:07:07,760 --> 01:07:12,040
Speaker 3: sing along with hands outstretched. Some of these men have

1084
01:07:12,200 --> 01:07:15,640
Speaker 3: been here for decades, men who mentored Leo when he

1085
01:07:15,680 --> 01:07:20,640
Speaker 3: first arrived in the system. They're dancing. Leo's boss from

1086
01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:24,320
Speaker 3: maintenance is here. Even the guards are clapping and moving

1087
01:07:24,320 --> 01:07:24,920
Speaker 3: to the music.

1088
01:07:27,640 --> 01:07:44,720
Speaker 16: You hear mad man laughs, sorrows, damn sorry, M'sta.

1089
01:07:49,640 --> 01:07:53,240
Speaker 3: The lyrics may be spiritual, but the sound is pure

1090
01:07:53,360 --> 01:07:59,200
Speaker 3: nineteen eighties rock. Leo and Kevin are trading solos, shredding

1091
01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:03,440
Speaker 3: their two guitars, dueling it out. Leo's working up a sweat,

1092
01:08:03,520 --> 01:08:06,680
Speaker 3: leaning on Kevin's shoulder. The two men are laughing and

1093
01:08:06,720 --> 01:08:09,800
Speaker 3: nodding encouragement at each other. It's not hard for me

1094
01:08:09,840 --> 01:08:13,800
Speaker 3: to imagine Leo, the teenager with long black hair, his

1095
01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:17,120
Speaker 3: shirt off, standing on some flatbed truck in the woods

1096
01:08:17,479 --> 01:08:20,479
Speaker 3: in Polk County, playing for free beer with his old

1097
01:08:20,520 --> 01:08:29,400
Speaker 3: band Rhino. Michelle is there too, She's dancing by the bonfire, cheering.

1098
01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:29,639
Speaker 11: On the band.

1099
01:08:31,240 --> 01:08:33,920
Speaker 3: Maybe I imagine they'd have made it to the Lakeland

1100
01:08:33,960 --> 01:08:40,160
Speaker 3: Civic Center someday to open for Iron Maiden or def Leppard.

1101
01:08:42,320 --> 01:08:45,120
Speaker 11: But that life and those dreams.

1102
01:08:45,520 --> 01:08:49,160
Speaker 3: Disappeared thirty five years ago on a cold, damp night

1103
01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:54,280
Speaker 3: in February of nineteen eighty seven, when Jeremy Scott took

1104
01:08:54,360 --> 01:09:02,080
Speaker 3: Michelle's life and the State of Florida took Leo's freedom.

1105
01:09:02,120 --> 01:09:05,680
Speaker 3: After the show, I left the prison and I had

1106
01:09:05,720 --> 01:09:08,080
Speaker 3: a few hours to kill before getting to the airport

1107
01:09:08,160 --> 01:09:12,679
Speaker 3: in Orlando, so I took the back roads for one

1108
01:09:12,760 --> 01:09:17,720
Speaker 3: more drive through Bone Valley. The sun was beginning to

1109
01:09:17,800 --> 01:09:21,400
Speaker 3: set on the phosphate capital of the world, casting a

1110
01:09:21,439 --> 01:09:25,800
Speaker 3: golden hue on the towering gypsum stacks in the distant horizon.

1111
01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:31,479
Speaker 3: I went past Tom's Restaurant where Michelle worked, and the

1112
01:09:31,520 --> 01:09:34,760
Speaker 3: gas station on Cumby Road where she spoke her very

1113
01:09:34,840 --> 01:09:40,360
Speaker 3: last words to Leo over an old payphone. I went

1114
01:09:40,400 --> 01:09:43,879
Speaker 3: by the trailer park right up the road where Jeremy

1115
01:09:43,960 --> 01:09:48,559
Speaker 3: used to stay with his grandmother, then onto State Road

1116
01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:53,719
Speaker 3: thirty three, passing that drainage canal hidden behind palmetto bushes.

1117
01:09:55,960 --> 01:09:59,439
Speaker 3: I turned onto I four and passed the exit ramp

1118
01:09:59,640 --> 01:10:03,320
Speaker 3: where Shells Masda broke down, and the gas station on

1119
01:10:03,360 --> 01:10:06,479
Speaker 3: the hill where a cheap knife with a compass on

1120
01:10:06,520 --> 01:10:10,400
Speaker 3: the handle once laid buried in a dumpster, never to

1121
01:10:10,439 --> 01:10:14,720
Speaker 3: be found. I wanted one more look at all the

1122
01:10:14,800 --> 01:10:18,400
Speaker 3: places in Bone Valley, the places Kelsey and I have

1123
01:10:18,600 --> 01:10:22,519
Speaker 3: visited and revisited and thought about every day for the

1124
01:10:22,560 --> 01:10:27,479
Speaker 3: past three years, Places that are still seared into Leo's

1125
01:10:27,520 --> 01:10:33,719
Speaker 3: mind thirty five years later. For now, this is where

1126
01:10:33,720 --> 01:10:38,719
Speaker 3: the story has to end. Leo Schofield and Jeremy Scott

1127
01:10:39,240 --> 01:10:42,120
Speaker 3: have settled on the truth of what happened on that

1128
01:10:42,200 --> 01:10:47,280
Speaker 3: February night back in nineteen eighty seven. There's nothing more

1129
01:10:47,320 --> 01:10:51,840
Speaker 3: to say unless the state of Florida decides to write

1130
01:10:51,880 --> 01:10:56,280
Speaker 3: the final chapter. This may be the closest Leo Schofield

1131
01:10:56,840 --> 01:11:09,320
Speaker 3: ever gets to true justice himself and for Michelle.

1132
01:11:11,320 --> 01:11:23,400
Speaker 6: Do you, my maness, have to have my feels? Saw

1133
01:11:23,760 --> 01:11:41,200
Speaker 6: Ruse de sarralists in this vastiity, I see relation, I

1134
01:11:42,200 --> 01:11:43,880
Speaker 6: know water.

1135
01:11:46,280 --> 01:11:47,360
Speaker 4: A breach.

1136
01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:55,400
Speaker 6: Despage to the world who solding the stor.

1137
01:11:57,640 --> 01:11:59,719
Speaker 4: To the worms.

1138
01:12:24,479 --> 01:12:27,640
Speaker 3: Bone Valley is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts

1139
01:12:27,880 --> 01:12:32,880
Speaker 3: in association with Signal Company Number One. Our executive producers

1140
01:12:33,000 --> 01:12:37,559
Speaker 3: are Jason Flahm and Kevin Wordis. Carrick Kornhaber is our

1141
01:12:37,640 --> 01:12:43,679
Speaker 3: senior producer. Britz Spangler is our sound designer. Roxandra Guidi

1142
01:12:43,920 --> 01:12:49,559
Speaker 3: is our editor. Fact checking by Maximo Anderson. Our producer

1143
01:12:49,720 --> 01:12:53,960
Speaker 3: and researcher is Kelsey Decker. The One Who's Holding the

1144
01:12:54,040 --> 01:12:57,400
Speaker 3: Stars is performed by Lee Bob and the Truth. It

1145
01:12:57,520 --> 01:13:00,519
Speaker 3: was written by Leo Schofield and Kevin Herrick and was

1146
01:13:00,560 --> 01:13:04,400
Speaker 3: performed during this episode by the watchers at Florida's Hearty

1147
01:13:04,479 --> 01:13:09,400
Speaker 3: Correctional Institution. Bone Valley is written and produced by me

1148
01:13:09,840 --> 01:13:14,640
Speaker 3: Gilbert King. You can follow the show on Instagram, Facebook,

1149
01:13:14,720 --> 01:13:15,200
Speaker 3: and Twitter.