Speaker 1: This is Take twenty with Mattie and Kenzie Ziegler and
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio Podcast. Hi everyone, welcome back to Take twenty. UM,
Speaker 1: if you watched part one, we actually did a segment
Speaker 1: with Alison malmon Um who started Active Minds, and we're
Speaker 1: here for part two to kind of ask more questions
Speaker 1: just because we are extremely UM, we feel really strongly
Speaker 1: about mental health and in learning more about it and
Speaker 1: educating ourselves, and so that's why we have Allison here again.
Speaker 1: And thank you so much for coming back. We really
Speaker 1: appreciate all of your knowledge and everything that you've given us. UM. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm well, thank you and I really um, I'm
Speaker 1: glad to be back. And um, I just can't tell
Speaker 1: you how important this conversation is that you guys are
Speaker 1: both hosting and being open about and all of it.
Speaker 1: So I'm just really glad to be a part of
Speaker 1: it with you. Thank thank you for teaching us. We're
Speaker 1: excited about it. It's true, Key, it's tricky stepping into
Speaker 1: a new year, trying to have a new mindset and
Speaker 1: not trying to put pressure on this year is going
Speaker 1: to be better, whether it be just because of the
Speaker 1: pandemic or whether it be because of your mental health
Speaker 1: or a friendship or whatever it may be. Um, how
Speaker 1: should we try and approach the new year without putting
Speaker 1: too much pressure on the situation? Yeah, I was, I
Speaker 1: was talking to somebody about this this weekend. UM. Resolute
Speaker 1: New Year's resolutions end up becoming like the biggest downfall
Speaker 1: of for so many people, whether or not they say
Speaker 1: it or not. I think a really important part of
Speaker 1: the new year is to recognize that, um, you know,
Speaker 1: January one is the day after December thirty one, and
Speaker 1: that's all. Give yourself the chance to set some goals
Speaker 1: for yourself, because I think we all feel, um if
Speaker 1: we're working towards a goal, whether that goal is related
Speaker 1: to your grades, or related to a friendship, or just
Speaker 1: like I want to get like two extra steps a day,
Speaker 1: whatever it is. Let yourself set a goal, um, but
Speaker 1: recognize that you can also and should also set a
Speaker 1: goal on March one and maybe like July fifteenth, just
Speaker 1: because and um, the fact that it is the new year. UM,
Speaker 1: don't put that pressure on yourself to make things so
Speaker 1: different this year than then you you may be let down. Yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure, I know. It's it's hard to like kind
Speaker 1: of not put pressure on yourself or on the situation.
Speaker 1: Just like even the New Year's resolution thing, how you said,
Speaker 1: it's really just a day different, you know, it's like
Speaker 1: really not that serious, but people are like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: it's the new year, I better get into shape, I
Speaker 1: better do this, and it's just like it's it's a lot.
Speaker 1: It's a lot of stress for sure. And I think
Speaker 1: with that, UM, it's not healthy for us to hold
Speaker 1: in our feelings. So why is talking about the things
Speaker 1: we're going through and facing them important? Why do you
Speaker 1: why do you think it's important for us to talk
Speaker 1: through it? I think one of the things, um, that
Speaker 1: I have seen and I even learned myself, as the
Speaker 1: moment I started talking about what I was going through,
Speaker 1: I realized just how not alone I was. So so
Speaker 1: often we're in our head thinking about the things that
Speaker 1: feel like they make us different, or that there's something
Speaker 1: wrong with us, or um, why is everybody have this
Speaker 1: perfect life when I don't. And the moment I started
Speaker 1: vocalizing it and verbalizing it or sharing the hard thing
Speaker 1: that I happened in my life, I realized just how
Speaker 1: many other people we're going through that exact same thing
Speaker 1: in that exact same moment, and how comforting it was
Speaker 1: to know. And so, first and foremost, you deserve to
Speaker 1: share about what you're going through because you deserve to
Speaker 1: know that you're not you're not alone, and you deserve
Speaker 1: to know that you're it's not your fault, uh, and
Speaker 1: that like you're not weird, right, like you're totally normal
Speaker 1: going through what you're going through. And then secondly, it
Speaker 1: is just such a burden off of your shoulders, but
Speaker 1: you don't have to carry that because usually what we're
Speaker 1: keeping on the inside is the really hard stuff. Right
Speaker 1: when something good's happening, we're screaming it off rooftop and
Speaker 1: letting everybody know and letting everybody celebrate with us. But
Speaker 1: it's the really hard stuff that we're holding on in
Speaker 1: the inside that they can then just create so much
Speaker 1: more pain inside of us. And so and again I
Speaker 1: don't like, yeah, screaming off the rooftop if you feel
Speaker 1: comfortable with it, or just like, find one person that
Speaker 1: you can share it with. Maybe it starts with writing
Speaker 1: it down in a diary or putting it on social
Speaker 1: or hopefully having somebody that you can talk to about it.
Speaker 1: So that they can physically show you that they're support
Speaker 1: that they are supportive and they're there for you, and
Speaker 1: we can you know, going back to some of this
Speaker 1: stuff we talked about last session and you know, VR
Speaker 1: and showing support for each other UM is a really
Speaker 1: important piece. But UM it's hard to do, right, Like,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to sit here and say everybody like
Speaker 1: just use those words. We've never been taught to do it.
Speaker 1: It's just not been part of our upgrain because for
Speaker 1: generations we've not talked about how we feel. But one
Speaker 1: of the coolest things is that I see is that UM,
Speaker 1: high school students of today and college students and young
Speaker 1: adults are talking about their feelings and are talking about
Speaker 1: mental health in a way that even my generation didn't
Speaker 1: and certainly my parents and grandparents generation didn't either. And
Speaker 1: so it's changing, right, And it's changing because you're starting
Speaker 1: this conversation and having this public conversation that we're having
Speaker 1: here today is going to hopefully help some people who
Speaker 1: are listening just start talking in their family or in
Speaker 1: their friend group and then realize, oh, there's other family
Speaker 1: or friends who are going to start talking to and
Speaker 1: it becomes a snowball. So that's the third reason, which is, um,
Speaker 1: not you know, not necessarily for your own mental health,
Speaker 1: but you will be helping somebody else when you share
Speaker 1: about what you're going through, because when you're sharing and
Speaker 1: you feel like you're being really vulnerable, you have no
Speaker 1: idea what that other person is going through. Maybe that
Speaker 1: other person is going through the exact same thing and
Speaker 1: thought that they were alone and did not feel comfortable
Speaker 1: sharing it. So it's a really important It starts with
Speaker 1: this one conversation. The few words that you're comfortable saying
Speaker 1: can really help kind of explode a conversation to both
Speaker 1: help you and the people around you. Totally, totally, and
Speaker 1: I just want to say thank you for even just
Speaker 1: kind of opening the conversation because you were helping so
Speaker 1: many people around the world and it's really special. I
Speaker 1: just wanted to acknowledge that I really appreciate it. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Of course, now kind of steering away, um, this is
Speaker 1: I feel like as a whole, mental health is pretty
Speaker 1: like taboo or people make it such a thing. Um.
Speaker 1: But on the other side of that, are there any
Speaker 1: like words or phrases that you should steer clear from
Speaker 1: if you're talking about mental health or if you're talking
Speaker 1: about anxiety or whatever. Maybe oh, I love that question.
Speaker 1: Language is like a really important part of why I
Speaker 1: do what I do. So UM. In short, like, you
Speaker 1: really can't say like the wrong thing, So I again,
Speaker 1: I want to go back to something that we talked
Speaker 1: about last time. Don't be afraid you're gonna say the
Speaker 1: wrong thing and not say anything at all, like you're
Speaker 1: you're better off saying something. However, if you're aware enough
Speaker 1: to be thinking about these words. UM. There are a
Speaker 1: couple of words that both in terms of like talking
Speaker 1: to somebody who's struggling, and then in general aow mental
Speaker 1: health that I think is really important. What you want
Speaker 1: to do if somebody is sharing that they're struggling, is
Speaker 1: you want to validate. You don't want to say, um,
Speaker 1: just get better, just go for a run. UM, I
Speaker 1: don't believe you, like what do you have to feel
Speaker 1: sad about? UM? Validate their feeling, even if you don't
Speaker 1: believe they deserve that feel that way, like I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't know why you would feel that way. But
Speaker 1: regardless of how you feel, know that whatever they're feeling
Speaker 1: is real and right and and validated and let them
Speaker 1: know that you believe them. I think there's also some
Speaker 1: pieces as we talk about mental health and mental illness
Speaker 1: that we can do to kind of shift how we
Speaker 1: think about these things in our culture. So, um, you know,
Speaker 1: I started Active Minds because my brother died by suicide,
Speaker 1: and um, he was a college student when he took
Speaker 1: his life, and I was a college student myself, and
Speaker 1: I started really thinking about what life was like for
Speaker 1: him in the world that he was living in. And
Speaker 1: even from that beginning and saying that he died by suicide,
Speaker 1: I'm never going to say that he committed suicide, because
Speaker 1: if I say that Brian committed suicide, that's that's indicating
Speaker 1: that he like committed a crime, or like he did
Speaker 1: something wrong like burglary or perjury, or like something that's
Speaker 1: going to send him in jail. No, he died by
Speaker 1: suicide because he was struggling with his mental health and
Speaker 1: for him, that was the only way out. And so we,
Speaker 1: as you know, in our in our vernacular, in our language,
Speaker 1: like we need to stop saying that people commit suicide.
Speaker 1: We don't say that about any other death. People don't
Speaker 1: commit heart attacks or commit cancer. You wouldn't even imagine
Speaker 1: to think about that. But but it helps you frame
Speaker 1: just how differently we think about mental health versus all
Speaker 1: other health issues when you think about just that one
Speaker 1: set of language. I think a really important piece too,
Speaker 1: as we think about it personally, is that, um, we
Speaker 1: have we have to stop identifying ourselves with our diagnoses.
Speaker 1: So UM. I have a friend who had anorexia in college,
Speaker 1: and UM, the number of times I heard her say
Speaker 1: I'm an anorexic, or I heard people say, well, she's
Speaker 1: an anorexic, or she's anorexic, it's very different from she's
Speaker 1: a person with anorexia. I think my brother was a
Speaker 1: person who struggled with his mental health, but he was
Speaker 1: a brother, he was a friend, he was a son,
Speaker 1: all of those things. You had depression and he had
Speaker 1: schizo effective disorder. But it's a really important part when
Speaker 1: we think about ourselves. If you're somebody who has panic
Speaker 1: attacks or um has anxiety, you're not somebody who is anxious, No,
Speaker 1: like you're a person that's just like happens to be
Speaker 1: a part of you. And I think about it often
Speaker 1: like I have you know, this isn't real, but I
Speaker 1: have blonde hair, right and so the difference between saying
Speaker 1: I'm blonde verse I have blonde hair, there's like a
Speaker 1: very different codoation of what that means. And so there
Speaker 1: are little shifts that we can make as we think
Speaker 1: about it, even for ourselves, about I'm a person, I
Speaker 1: have these things. I might struggle with these things sometimes,
Speaker 1: but there's so much more to me than just my
Speaker 1: diagnosis or just my struggles. UM. I think it's a
Speaker 1: really important way for us to get out of, um
Speaker 1: the self stigma that still really exists even if we're
Speaker 1: not we don't judge each other. One of the things
Speaker 1: that has been so awesome to see in your generation,
Speaker 1: in high school and college students of today is that
Speaker 1: there's not a lot of stigma. There's not a lot
Speaker 1: of judging of people to say like, oh, that person
Speaker 1: has bipolar disorder, I don't want to be around them. No,
Speaker 1: like that doesn't exist anymore. But what still is really
Speaker 1: high is this self stigma, the the the discomfort in
Speaker 1: having it for yourself. And so if you can make
Speaker 1: some of those language changes, even for just for yourself,
Speaker 1: to realize like, actually, I'm a pretty awesome person and
Speaker 1: yes I have anxiety, or like yeah, I'm I'm cool
Speaker 1: and my mom has um, you know, substance use disorder
Speaker 1: or whatever it may be. Um, this is just part
Speaker 1: of your whole identity and not not your identity itself.
Speaker 1: So those are little changes. I could go on forever, um,
Speaker 1: But I love the question. And I think there's a
Speaker 1: lot of power in looking at the language that we're using.
Speaker 1: For sure, Yeah, I would have. That's such an amazing
Speaker 1: perspective that I haven't even uh, you know, noticed myself.
Speaker 1: I think I think we do that. We're guilty of
Speaker 1: always just being like, oh, well, I'm just anxious and
Speaker 1: it's getting in the way of a lot of things. Um,
Speaker 1: that's a really good way to treat it, and are
Speaker 1: also very important as well. Yeah, and and there's so little, right.
Speaker 1: I think that's the really like, the really important piece
Speaker 1: of all of this to me is that we don't
Speaker 1: have to make these like massive of changes. It's all
Speaker 1: of these little things, these little language changes, the little
Speaker 1: opportunity to say something to a friend that creates the
Speaker 1: big change that's that's needed. But it's it starts with
Speaker 1: these little things that are so easy for all of
Speaker 1: us to do. It's really hard. I think, like I
Speaker 1: for myself, I feel like I was kind of the
Speaker 1: last in the family out of my mom and sister
Speaker 1: to kind of start having panic attacks and having uh something,
Speaker 1: some anxiety, and it was nice to know that I
Speaker 1: wasn't alone because I witnessed my mom go through it
Speaker 1: and then I witnessed my sister go through it, and
Speaker 1: so I felt like I had an open space. Luckily,
Speaker 1: I'm so lucky that I had the space to do that.
Speaker 1: Um But I wonder for you, Kenzie, or if you
Speaker 1: can touch on this, like what was it like going
Speaker 1: through it before your sister did and knowing like like,
Speaker 1: did you feel alone or did you feel like you
Speaker 1: could open up? Um? Well, I am not one to
Speaker 1: talk about my feeling a lot, so it definitely was
Speaker 1: super hard for me to kind of experience it first
Speaker 1: in the family and not really have someone to relate
Speaker 1: to other than my mom. I mean, obviously I love
Speaker 1: my mom, but teenagers don't necessarily go to their parents
Speaker 1: for everything. UM. So I did go to my sister
Speaker 1: a lot about it, but I was so nervous to
Speaker 1: open up. Um it was the same thing with a
Speaker 1: therapist for me. I just don't I feel so weird
Speaker 1: talking about my feelings, which sucks because it's important, but yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm just like, I feel so weird talking about it.
Speaker 1: But you've been a great person to talk to, and
Speaker 1: I feel like, for me, the most important thing going
Speaker 1: through a panic attack is just to act like it's
Speaker 1: not there and kind of distract your mind if we
Speaker 1: watch a movie or talk about something else. But once
Speaker 1: in a while it is really important to talk about
Speaker 1: it for me as well. No, you've definitely done an
Speaker 1: incredible job at like progressing in that way, and I'm honestly,
Speaker 1: I'm just so lucky that I've had heard through all
Speaker 1: of this, and especially just because we obviously, like friends
Speaker 1: come and go, but we'll always be there for each other, right,
Speaker 1: And that's not me saying that you shouldn't address it
Speaker 1: in any way. I think we all just kind of
Speaker 1: deal with it differently. But now I've learned to open
Speaker 1: up about it because obviously when I started having anxiety,
Speaker 1: I was like twelve, so it was very hard. Well,
Speaker 1: and you've touched on something too. It's like you don't
Speaker 1: have to be perfect every time, right, Like you can
Speaker 1: do one time. You can like you put words to
Speaker 1: it and feel comfortable doing it and then the next
Speaker 1: time you don't want to talk about it all. I'm
Speaker 1: like that's okay. Like give yourself grace to not not
Speaker 1: be getting better each time or not, you know, to
Speaker 1: not be perfect each time. Like it's you're none of
Speaker 1: us is perfect, right, and so it's like, um, do
Speaker 1: the best you can in the moment that you're in
Speaker 1: all the time, and sometimes, um, you're going backwards, and
Speaker 1: like that's fine, Like welcome to this pandemic. We thought
Speaker 1: we were going great and then we went backwards. Like
Speaker 1: that's just a natural caer of life that we allow
Speaker 1: for everybody else and everything else, but we don't allow
Speaker 1: for ourselves. So like, give yourself some space and some
Speaker 1: grace to not be perfect each time, even if it's
Speaker 1: not being perfect in your panic attack, Like that's totally normal,
Speaker 1: and that's totally fine, and you know it's probably gonna
Speaker 1: happen again, and so like you know, you know, figure
Speaker 1: out what the triggers are and the things that you
Speaker 1: can say you feel comfortable saying, and you do your
Speaker 1: best in the moment and with what you've got. And
Speaker 1: that's a really important piece of all of this, Like
Speaker 1: we all have to just be kinder to ourselves in
Speaker 1: a way that we're just not. I also think, you know,
Speaker 1: how we were talking about social media is terrible, but
Speaker 1: there's a little there's like time this the app TikTok,
Speaker 1: I feel like has been away for teenagers to open
Speaker 1: up about how they're feeling about mental health. And I
Speaker 1: feel like I go on there and I'm like, wow,
Speaker 1: I'm not alone, Like this is so weren't. And that's
Speaker 1: why I'm I'm so glad that people are opening up
Speaker 1: on social media. And I think it's very important because
Speaker 1: in the comments, everyone's like, Wow, I'm so glad that
Speaker 1: you're going through this and we can go through this together.
Speaker 1: I just think it's really important to open up on
Speaker 1: social media. I think it's totally I know it's a
Speaker 1: scary thing to do, but it's weird because on TikTok
Speaker 1: it feels like less scary for some reason. I love that.
Speaker 1: I do think. You know, yes, we were talking about
Speaker 1: all the downfalls of social but I like, I'm the
Speaker 1: first person to jump into an argument to say that,
Speaker 1: like not, um, there is good in social and what
Speaker 1: I've seen is social gives people an opportunity to have
Speaker 1: a platform to share how they're doing and what they're
Speaker 1: thinking in a way that previous generation has never had. Right,
Speaker 1: Like my generation, we wrote in journals. If you were
Speaker 1: going to do anything, you were going to write in
Speaker 1: your diary, but nobody was ever going to see that.
Speaker 1: So if you were having a really crappy time, yes
Speaker 1: you could get it out, but unless you used your
Speaker 1: words to tell somebody or friends said something to you,
Speaker 1: nobody knew. Social gives all of us a chance to
Speaker 1: put that out in the world and be validated and
Speaker 1: feel like we're not alone in a way that didn't
Speaker 1: exist into previous generations. So while there there are challenges, right,
Speaker 1: we're going to work through all those challenges. Um. I
Speaker 1: love what you're saying. It's like, um, it gives you
Speaker 1: a chance to, like, you know, you find your tribe,
Speaker 1: and you find your people, and maybe your people live
Speaker 1: in your hometown, and likely they don't, and likely you're
Speaker 1: never going to react with these people again. But they
Speaker 1: make you know that other people go through this too,
Speaker 1: and and it's totally normal. Um, And it's okay to
Speaker 1: not be okay sometimes, and it's okay to like, I
Speaker 1: feel like you just want to know that that you
Speaker 1: belong somewhere totally. I think that's like the best advice
Speaker 1: just honestly going into this new year as well as
Speaker 1: it's okay not to be okay, there's no pressure, like
Speaker 1: it's it's really important to know that, especially everyone listening,
Speaker 1: Like I would say, everyone, give give yourselves a little
Speaker 1: a little pat on the back because it's hard and
Speaker 1: we're all going through it and we're all going to
Speaker 1: get through it. We're all going to get through it.
Speaker 1: It's true. And this and this time right now, UM,
Speaker 1: get through day to day like this is a really
Speaker 1: not only is being a teenager hard, and not only
Speaker 1: is being a young adult hard, but like going through
Speaker 1: it in this pandemic when sometimes you're allowed to see
Speaker 1: people and oftentimes you have to be stuck at home
Speaker 1: and you're not allowed to participate in the activities you
Speaker 1: once did or maybe you can, but you're saying all
Speaker 1: of those things, like this is really hard, So let
Speaker 1: yourself just get through day by day because we will
Speaker 1: get through it. Um, we don't need to thrive right now,
Speaker 1: We don't need to like be our best selves right now.
Speaker 1: We just need to be and um, let's let's get
Speaker 1: out on the other side and and you know where
Speaker 1: are red, yellow and green bracelets When we get there,
Speaker 1: like we feel like it's not gonna be you know,
Speaker 1: at once, but um, it's this is a hard time
Speaker 1: and it's and it's okay to feel that. Um, it's
Speaker 1: normal to feel that and just like just get through
Speaker 1: like a you know, foot forward each day so that
Speaker 1: we can move through together totally. That's yeah, that's great.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Allison, um for doing this two
Speaker 1: part series with us. This means so much to us
Speaker 1: and just opening the conversation and to anyone listening, I
Speaker 1: hope you know you took something from Allison and this
Speaker 1: conversation and it's been really special to have you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you so much. It was so nice to meet
Speaker 1: you and talk to you you guys as well. And
Speaker 1: and again I just, um, thank you for including me
Speaker 1: and thank you for including Active Minds, But more than anything,
Speaker 1: just thank you for having this conversation because it does
Speaker 1: it opens up for folks who may be hearing it
Speaker 1: for the first time. And as you guys continue to
Speaker 1: share your experiences, you're helping other people know that they're
Speaker 1: not alone, and hopefully those people can let other people
Speaker 1: know and like, that's how this change is happening, and
Speaker 1: we're gonna we are going to get through this together
Speaker 1: because of conversations like this. Thanks, thank you, thanks so
Speaker 1: much for taking Tony with us. If you had fun,
Speaker 1: it was five stars. You can follow us on Instagram
Speaker 1: at Take twenty podcast, email us at Take twenty at
Speaker 1: I heeart radio dot com, or you can call us
Speaker 1: at eight four four for Take twenty. See you next time.
Speaker 1: Him