1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 1: Fellow conspiracy realist friends and neighbors. You got two bends, 2 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: you get a Matt here, So shout out to our 3 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:12,639 Speaker 1: guest super producer, Bend the sleeping dog Hacket. Matt. Remember 4 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: when you and I. 5 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 2: Were owners of cars that were old and awesome. 6 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 1: And analogue to a great degree. Oh man. So in 7 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 1: twenty twenty, amid the lockdown of the COVID nineteen pandemic, 8 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:37,240 Speaker 1: we got increasingly suspicious, even more so about the surveillance state. 9 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: Car prices were going through the roof. That continues to 10 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:46,880 Speaker 1: be the case, and cars themselves were changing. They were 11 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: not you know, the old beaters that you and I 12 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: grew up with. They were instead and are almost like 13 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 1: rolling computers. 14 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, rolling super censor. It's crazy all the things 15 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 2: new vehicles can sense around them and have an awareness of, 16 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 2: and stop your car if you're getting too close, if 17 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 2: you're accelerating too fast towards a wall or another car. 18 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 2: Of the things that it can sense that you're doing 19 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 2: with your gas pedal and your steering wheel, where your 20 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 2: hands are, what your eyes are doing. 21 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, facial recognition when and where you're going to or 22 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: from a place point. 23 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:30,760 Speaker 3: A to Z. 24 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:36,400 Speaker 1: The metadata about it. Your car may know more about 25 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: you than your partner. In twenty twenty. 26 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 2: Five, Well, my car, my car knows my fingerprint, Ben, 27 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 2: and it won't access my information unless I put my 28 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 2: fingerprint in. And it's not an expensive car, which scares me. 29 00:01:55,280 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: It should, Yeah, it's It's an incredibly creepy intersection of 30 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 1: big brothers, surveillance and of technology that perhaps the public 31 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: doesn't understand even now. And in twenty twenty we asked ourselves, 32 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 1: are we entering a world where outside forces can control 33 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:22,519 Speaker 1: not just monitor you, but control your actions through the 34 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: vehicle that you paid a ton of money for. A 35 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:31,360 Speaker 1: world in which maybe a third party entity can brick 36 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: your car render it inoperable. Maybe you're driving the wrong 37 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 1: direction during a politically tense time or protest. Maybe you 38 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 1: have to have your fingerprint to start stuff. Oh my gosh, 39 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 1: this one I think made both of us get pretty 40 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: luddite pretty quickly. 41 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 2: Yep, So hop in your Nissan, put this episode on, 42 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 2: and about three quarters of the way through you might 43 00:02:57,520 --> 00:02:59,639 Speaker 2: pull over to the side of the road and get out. 44 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 3: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is 45 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 3: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 46 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 3: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A 47 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:15,359 Speaker 3: production of iHeartRadio. 48 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my 49 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 2: name is Noah. 50 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We are joined as always with 51 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 1: our super producer, Paul Michigan control Decat most importantly, you 52 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 1: are here and that makes this stuff they don't want 53 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 1: you to know coming to you live ish in the 54 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:49,119 Speaker 1: midst of a global pandemic. We've been getting a We've 55 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: been getting a lot of feedback, a lot of responses 56 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 1: from our fellow listeners regarding our latest update on COVID nineteen. 57 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: We appreciate these check ins. We want to hear from 58 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 1: you as always. You specifically, you are the most important 59 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: part of this show's let's check in with each other. Noel, Matt, Paul, 60 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 1: how do you guys? Do it much the same? 61 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 4: Pretty? 62 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: Okay? 63 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 4: I love that you said live. 64 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 3: Ish it is. 65 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:22,480 Speaker 4: My mind immediately went too, Well, at least we're alive, 66 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 4: So that's maybe where the ish part comes in. Yeah, 67 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:27,919 Speaker 4: but I don't know. I feel like I'm with you. 68 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:32,599 Speaker 4: I feel all of your individual warmths emanating from my screen, 69 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:35,599 Speaker 4: and honestly, I look forward to this. It kind of 70 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 4: is the thing that breaks up the monotony and feels 71 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 4: like real human contact. 72 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: I love it. 73 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 4: Maybe this is the new way, but if it is, 74 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 4: I'm okay with that as well as we can hang out. 75 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 2: Yes, things are going pretty well over here. My wife 76 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 2: recently had a quarantine birthday and we were able to 77 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:57,720 Speaker 2: utilize the old hangout for that, which was really nice. 78 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,359 Speaker 2: You know, just getting like you said, no old, to 79 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 2: see a face and hear a voice of someone familiar 80 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:06,719 Speaker 2: is really comforting right now. But I would counter that 81 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:12,359 Speaker 2: with I was forced, it was necessary for me to 82 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 2: take a trip physically to a grocery store just momentarily, 83 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:22,159 Speaker 2: and the anxiety that I felt just walking near any 84 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 2: other person. It's pretty harrowing that I feel that personally, 85 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 2: and I you know, I'm assuming we all are feeling 86 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 2: that at this moment. So I would just say, connect 87 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 2: with whoever you can virtually right now. 88 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 4: It's interesting, Like I mean, even like taking walks, like 89 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 4: I've been going to the park and trying to get 90 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:43,039 Speaker 4: out and stuff, and I live near a park and 91 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 4: people are keeping their distance and being respectful, but there 92 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 4: is that weird feeling when you're passing a little too 93 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 4: close to somebody where you almost look at them suspiciously, 94 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 4: or you hold your breath even or like cross on 95 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 4: the other side of the street, some weird impulse that 96 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 4: I'm not used to feeling, and it's a very alien 97 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:02,040 Speaker 4: thing for me. But I'm kind of having to get 98 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 4: used to it, which I don't want to get used to. 99 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: It, don't. 100 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 4: I don't know how else to describe it. 101 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: Probably the last mode of transport that will remain open 102 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: for most people in the United States is going to 103 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: be the automobile. You know, like domestic flights will get 104 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: increasingly sparse, right I think Delta, for instance, has maybe 105 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: a ten percent demand for flights. Now. A lot of 106 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:39,479 Speaker 1: international borders are closed for maritime and air traffic. But 107 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:46,280 Speaker 1: here in the US, we still have the amazing capacity 108 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 1: to literally wake up and if you want drive across 109 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: an entire continent. It's tough to do it in a day, 110 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:57,279 Speaker 1: but you can drive from sea to shining Sea. You 111 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 1: won't be stopped at a state border. You won't have to, 112 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 1: you know, apply to enter Maine, for instance, or California. 113 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 1: I mean, this country is so huge that many US residents, 114 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 1: the four of Us included, have never been to all 115 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: fifty states. This is amazing and unusual. The US is 116 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: a car culture and people are appreciating it more and more. 117 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 1: Now many of our fellow listeners have been, you know, 118 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 1: getting cabin fever and driving out to rural areas just 119 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 1: to get some vitamin D from sunshine, just to be 120 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 1: out and around nature. But today's question is will this 121 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: continue to be the case? The car, the opportunity afforded 122 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 1: to us by the automobile is a tremendous amount of freedom. 123 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: But will big brother get under your hood? Here are 124 00:07:56,040 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: the facts. Auto manufacturers are increasingly moving vehicles online. If 125 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 1: you buy a car that was made in Ballpark the 126 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: last eight years or so, you probably have any number 127 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 1: of neat electronic capabilities right like touch screens, onboard satellite navigation, 128 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 1: these customized bespoke updates to the music you like, the 129 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: podcast you listen to the news that some AI or 130 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: algorithm thinks you prefer. I know that two of us 131 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: recently bought vehicles. Noel, you bought a vehicle a while back. 132 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: I have one now. I finally had to say goodbye 133 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: to my Monte Carlo and I sat when I sat 134 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 1: in my current vehicle for the first time, I felt 135 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: like I was in the future. I could just touch 136 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 1: stuff and things happened. That's amazing. You know, I went 137 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 1: from not having like power windows to all of a 138 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 1: sudden having this thing that will you know, kind of 139 00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 1: nanny state me if it thinks I'm backing up in 140 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: too aggressive a manner. I mean, what are you guys 141 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: experiences when you're driving? 142 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 4: Well, first off, Ben, you're bearing the lead. What kind 143 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 4: of car did you get? I don't even think I 144 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 4: know about this. 145 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: I refuse to disclose. Now are you serious? I have 146 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: a Ford Escape, oddly ironic or perhaps apt as a 147 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: car name, and these are troubled times. 148 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 4: Plenty of room for your bug out bag too, in 149 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 4: the back of a Ford Escape. 150 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: Love that. 151 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 4: I have a Honda Fit, which is, you know, a 152 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 4: little less roomy than an Escape, but still has a 153 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 4: nice little hatchback and plenty of room for all my 154 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 4: dirty laundry and empty gym bag, which I have pledged 155 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 4: to turn into a bug out bag after that episode, 156 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 4: I'm going to take our own advice. But yeah, it's 157 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 4: the first time I ever had a backup camera, first 158 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 4: time I ever had a car that was very digitally driven. 159 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 4: For sure, no question about it, and it is an adjustment. 160 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 4: It's convenient. But as we get into this topic today, 161 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 4: we're going to see that there are some potential and 162 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 4: various possibilities that can go along with that. 163 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:09,439 Speaker 1: Is this is an idea that that you thought up first, Matt, 164 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: I mean, not the idea of digitally connecting cars, but 165 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:17,319 Speaker 1: you raised the issue that this is a growing concern 166 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 1: for a lot of people. It's a convenience, but it's 167 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: also a concern. You know, anybody who has a web 168 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 1: connected car is encountering all these NATO digital capabilities. But 169 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: we're also seeing the capability to limit the performance of 170 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:39,559 Speaker 1: a vehicle, such as engine governance. Right, that's an old technology. 171 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 1: For instance, people in the US and Latin America undoubtedly 172 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: know the Bluebird school buses. You guys know the big 173 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 1: yellow honkers that for some reason still don't have seat belts. 174 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 4: I was about, it's always blown my mind. 175 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: How is that? Okay, the driver has a seat belt, 176 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: which I think is weirdly unfair and not reassuring. But 177 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 1: those engines have governor switches on them, meaning they can't 178 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:14,679 Speaker 1: while the engine itself can power the vehicle to go 179 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 1: at a pretty high rate of speed, there are safeguards 180 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: put in to prevent it from reaching that speed, and 181 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 1: you can engineer via software limits on your engine's performance if, 182 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: for instance, you don't want your vehicle to go over 183 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:38,560 Speaker 1: eighty miles per hour, for instance, if you want to 184 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: keep it at a certain speed for let's say economical 185 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:47,720 Speaker 1: concerns or safety concerns. The FOURD escape that I have, 186 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:53,440 Speaker 1: for example, has something called my key technology, And when 187 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: you have this limit programmed in, depending on which key 188 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: you use, the touch screen right when you get around 189 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 1: seventy nine miles an hour, the touch screen will pop 190 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 1: up and it'll say your speed is limited by the 191 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:11,679 Speaker 1: my key. In an ideal world, this helps parents keep 192 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 1: their kids from hot rodden around over the speed limit 193 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 1: and straight into a fender bender. It also helps owners 194 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: of fleets manage their individual vehicles, from truck companies to 195 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:27,959 Speaker 1: rental empires like Hurtz or something. Again. In an ideal world, 196 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 1: remote control over your vehicle makes the world a safer place. 197 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: But we do not live in an ideal world. 198 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 4: No we don't. Let's imagine. You know it's not going 199 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 4: to be too much of a stretch. Let's imagine if 200 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:46,680 Speaker 4: you would a world in which government or even worse, 201 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 4: a private entity can render your vehicle useless, absolutely brick 202 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 4: that thing the way a company might do that to 203 00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 4: your phone, or you know, rendering your phone obsolete. More 204 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:04,679 Speaker 4: and more updates come out the idea of planned obsolescence, 205 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 4: or in the same way as your video game console 206 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 4: or PC, you might start to feel a little long 207 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 4: in the tooth as a digital updates begin to outpace 208 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 4: the hardware. 209 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 2: Well yeah, and also imagine a world where a tiny 210 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 2: little device connected up to your vehicle, no matter how 211 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 2: old it is, to your onboard diagnostics port, could track 212 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 2: all of your movements, everywhere you've ever been, where you 213 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 2: are right now, how fast you're going. Imagine that some 214 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 2: tiny little device could do that, installed by anyone, or 215 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:49,560 Speaker 2: a very similar device that is just magnetically placed underneath 216 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 2: your vehicle by whoever, can see exactly where you are, 217 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 2: where you're going at any time, when you're going home, 218 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 2: when you're going to work, all of your routes that 219 00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 2: you generally take. Imagine that you'd only have to spend 220 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 2: forty dollars to someone would only have to spend forty 221 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 2: dollars to know exactly what you do every day, and 222 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:15,319 Speaker 2: then you don't even need that device anymore because of 223 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 2: the technology we're discussing here, it's already inside your vehicle 224 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 2: if you have a newer one. The big question here 225 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 2: is how are we going to balance the freedoms that 226 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 2: we hold so dear, like we said at the top, 227 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 2: being able to just drive wherever you want, whenever you want, 228 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 2: because you are a person who has freedom. How are 229 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 2: we going to balance that with all of these new 230 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 2: technologies and possible control mechanisms that are being developed and 231 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 2: are already in place. 232 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: Ask yourself, how long can you drive? When and where 233 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 1: you wish? We'll tackle that question after a word from 234 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 1: our sponsor. Here's where it gets crazy, the increasing interconnectivity. 235 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 1: Dare i say the hyper interconnectivity of vehicles to the 236 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 1: web brings a ton of convenience and it brings a 237 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 1: load of worrying potential. This is a phenomenon that was 238 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: once hailed as the Internet of Things. Our good pal 239 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland covered this in depth on tech Stuff if 240 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 1: you would like to learn more about it. But we 241 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: know again, we say this every time we run into 242 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 1: a developing technology episode. We know again that technology always 243 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 1: outpaces legislation. Currently, governments around the world are scrambling to 244 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 1: catch up with the things that your software in your 245 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 1: car can do. In fact, these concerns have already reached 246 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: the highest court in the United States back in January 247 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 1: of twenty thirteen. Think about that. Seven years ago, the 248 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 1: Supreme Court weighed in on GPS tracking of vehicles in 249 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 1: a case called the United States versus Jones. What happened there? 250 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 1: What was the gist? 251 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 2: Well, let's jump in really quickly and just talk about 252 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 2: those GPS devices. So a single, tiny little GPS device. 253 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 2: There are so many of them out there on the 254 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 2: market for their consumer level grade. Again, they're fairly cheap, 255 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 2: they're extremely effective. It's a tiny little device, generally with 256 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 2: a magnet on the bottom. It goes or is placed 257 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 2: most commonly underneath the chassis or on the bottom of 258 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 2: the chassis of a vehicle, the metal parts underneath, and 259 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 2: it's placed there in many cases by a private investigator 260 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 2: or by a law enforcement officer. It will be placed 261 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 2: to track a person of interest, whether it's in an 262 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 2: infidelity case or you know, tracking perhaps a narcotics someone 263 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:14,159 Speaker 2: who is assumed to be within the narcotics trade. For 264 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 2: any number of reasons. You place this device underneath a vehicle, 265 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 2: and then that device is connected up through the same 266 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 2: thing that your cell phone uses, the same networks that 267 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 2: your cell phone uses to connect everything, and through the 268 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 2: GPS system, and it will tell that whoever is tracking 269 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 2: that vehicle exactly where it is, where it's going, where 270 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:42,159 Speaker 2: it's been. It just knows everything about that vehicle. Now, 271 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 2: when there's this case that we're about to discuss, has 272 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:53,879 Speaker 2: to do with what happens when someone finds a GPS 273 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:57,680 Speaker 2: tracker on their vehicle, their personal vehicle. 274 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:02,399 Speaker 1: Right right exactly. There are a couple of different ways 275 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:06,440 Speaker 1: that these things can work. There are real time updaters, 276 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 1: and then there are also updaters that just log transport. 277 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:15,400 Speaker 1: And the tricky thing about those is that the person 278 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 1: using that GPS device has if it's not real time updating, 279 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:24,120 Speaker 1: they have to physically go and take the device back, 280 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 1: plug it into a system, and then download the information. 281 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, but generally the ones that are used now, even 282 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 2: the cheapest ones, it just connects to an app on 283 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 2: a phone and it's updates are being sent continuously exactly exactly. 284 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 1: The technology is there in this case. In the twenty 285 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 1: thirteen case of the United States versus Jones. Police placed 286 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 1: a GPS tracker on the car, on the chassis, like 287 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: you said, Matt, of someone that they suspected was selling cocaine. 288 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: They suspect did this person was selling cocaine because this 289 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:07,159 Speaker 1: person was selling cocaine. You know, I'm not the chief Justice. 290 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 1: I'm not bound by the same rules of legality, so 291 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:14,439 Speaker 1: we can just say it. They had probable cause, They 292 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 1: had reasonable suspicion, you know what I mean. They weren't 293 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 1: just walking around parking lots going I don't know that 294 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 1: Honda Civic looks like that spoiler is suspicious. Let's see 295 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 1: what that guy's getting into. The police had received a warrant. 296 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:33,360 Speaker 1: They were legally allowed to do this, but they were 297 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,360 Speaker 1: only allowed to do it under certain constraints, and they 298 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:41,359 Speaker 1: exceeded those constraints. There were two constraints. First, they were 299 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 1: only allowed to monitor this vehicle for a specific length 300 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: of time, and secondly, they were only allowed to monitor 301 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 1: it for a particular geographic region. They went over the 302 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 1: limit on both of those. They exceeded the geography and 303 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:02,200 Speaker 1: they exceeded the length of time. The federal attorney argued 304 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 1: that there is no expectation of privacy when you are 305 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 1: traveling on public roads. It's kind of like how you 306 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:13,639 Speaker 1: have no right to tell somebody not to take a 307 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:17,199 Speaker 1: photograph of you if you are in a crowded public space. 308 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:21,679 Speaker 1: If you go to a park for a concert or 309 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 1: something like that, and someone on stage takes a picture 310 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:28,199 Speaker 1: of the entire audience, then you do not have the 311 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:30,639 Speaker 1: right because you are in a public space. You do 312 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:33,239 Speaker 1: not have the right to pull that photograph. You have 313 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 1: no rights to it. However, the Supreme Court agreed with 314 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:41,879 Speaker 1: the defense attorney because the defense attorney claimed this was 315 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: a violation of this client's Fourth Amendment right, and that 316 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 1: the Fourth Amendment again is the right against unlawful search 317 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,919 Speaker 1: and seizure. So they're saying this was a violation of 318 00:20:55,160 --> 00:21:01,920 Speaker 1: personal privacy despite the fact that this vehicle was traveling 319 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: on public roads. 320 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 2: That's crazy, right, That concept that there's no expectation of 321 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:12,959 Speaker 2: privacy when traveling on public roads. I mean, I get it. 322 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 2: I think it's just the knowing that when you're inside 323 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:18,199 Speaker 2: your vehicle. Noel, I don't know if you feel this 324 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 2: way you feel. I think this is just a psychological 325 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:23,679 Speaker 2: thing that we've discussed before on this show you feel 326 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 2: very much that you are in this private space. 327 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's sort of an illusion of privacy, though, isn't it, 328 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,200 Speaker 4: because it's exactly aren't the tinted windows even kind of illegal? 329 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 1: Like, isn't that a thing past a certain tent level? Yeah? 330 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 4: Past a certain So that's almost I mean again, I'm 331 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 4: not the two ideas are intertwined. But you know, there 332 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 4: is an expectation that law enforcement should be able to 333 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 4: see into your vehicle to make sure you're not doing 334 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 4: anything illegal right while you're driving, And so that expectation 335 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 4: of privacy is absolutely an illusion for sure. Yeah. 336 00:21:57,800 --> 00:21:59,679 Speaker 2: So here's another thing I want to bring up with 337 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:03,920 Speaker 2: you guys. Okay, So, in another case that happened pretty recently. 338 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 2: This has to do with property rights. A man who 339 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 2: was suspected of selling methamphetamines also had a GPS placed 340 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 2: on his vehicle. And in this case, the man discovered 341 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 2: it after ten days or somewhere around ten days, and 342 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:28,399 Speaker 2: the you know, the police officers are getting all the 343 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 2: information and tracking it, and then all of a sudden, 344 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 2: the trackers, the GPS stops putting out data. They suspect 345 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 2: that the man has taken you know, removed it from 346 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 2: his vehicle, discovered it and removed it. So they then 347 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:47,159 Speaker 2: get a warrant, another warrant because they had to get 348 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 2: one in the first place, right to put the GPS 349 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:52,480 Speaker 2: on his vehicle. They got another warrant to search I 350 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 2: think it was his parents' house and the surrounding areas, 351 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 2: like some of the surrounding areas to find the GPS 352 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 2: because they were charging him with theft of property. No, 353 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 2: if you found of our ben if you found a 354 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 2: GPS device on your vehicle, would you remove it or 355 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 2: would you just leave it there? 356 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 1: No, you put it on another vehicle. That's obvious. 357 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 4: There's a there's a this comes up a lot in 358 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 4: Breaking Bad and Better Call Saw that they call them Lowjacks. 359 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 4: I think that's actually a brand, but I think it's 360 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 4: sort of like one of the most popular like car 361 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,639 Speaker 4: tracker things that are used for theft prevention that like 362 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,639 Speaker 4: individuals can buy or there may even come stock in 363 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,399 Speaker 4: certain cars. But they call it that a lot in 364 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 4: the show. And I wonder if it's sort of like 365 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,399 Speaker 4: calling a you know, a mimiograph machine, a xerox, or 366 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 4: like you know, calling a soda coke or something like that. 367 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 1: But internet Internet search of Google exactly, but Jack was 368 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 1: first first, Uh, commercially available. 369 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 4: That's that that makes sense exactly. So no to your 370 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 4: to your question. It reminds me of getting your car booted. 371 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 4: For example, Let's say you get your car booted. 372 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:01,200 Speaker 2: Uh. 373 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 4: To me, that is, you know, unjust seizure of my 374 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 4: property because it's usually by a private entity rather than 375 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:10,919 Speaker 4: some law enforcementiency. And then they put a sticker on 376 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 4: your window that you know, tells you the number of 377 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 4: calls they can come back, and then you can pay 378 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:17,719 Speaker 4: them and they take it off. On the flip side, 379 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 4: if I found someone had placed something on my vehicle, 380 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 4: I you know, feel like it was be my right 381 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 4: to remove it, in the same way it'd be my 382 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 4: right to remove a boot if I was so inclined. 383 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,879 Speaker 4: But the similarly, they would probably charge you with destruction 384 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 4: of property if you remove one of those. 385 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:38,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's that's correct. And we have to we 386 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 1: have to note here this will be important later in 387 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: this episode. We have to note that both cases Matt, 388 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,360 Speaker 1: the case you brought up and the Supreme Court case 389 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:53,160 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, both of them focus on crime. They don't 390 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 1: focus on, for instance, a private investigator that's where we 391 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 1: get to a gray area, right we They don't focus 392 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:05,360 Speaker 1: on maybe a jilted lover or something like that. They 393 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:09,920 Speaker 1: don't focus on a helicopter parent. But all of those 394 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 1: scenarios come into play. Currently, if you're a driver and 395 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 1: you have concerns about this, first off, you're absolutely right, 396 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 1: you're not crazy to be concerned about it. But the 397 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 1: law here in the US seems to be trending toward 398 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:35,439 Speaker 1: your side for now, but there's still serious questions. One 399 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 1: of the first ones would be what about GPS vehicle 400 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 1: tracking confined to a specific group like a company fleet. 401 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 1: Currently there are no federal laws and no state laws 402 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:53,880 Speaker 1: that expressly forbid the use of GPS vehicle tracking for 403 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: commercial purposes. So you drive a Cisco truck and it's 404 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 1: the company truck, then they can they can track you. 405 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 1: They can do whatever they want. Because it's not your 406 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 1: it's not your vehicle you drive like you rent a 407 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:12,920 Speaker 1: car for instance, then your car or the car you're 408 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,919 Speaker 1: driving can absolutely be monitored, and there's a very valid 409 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,120 Speaker 1: argument that it should because it's someone else's property. Think 410 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:24,679 Speaker 1: about it like a work laptop or a work cell phone. 411 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:29,680 Speaker 1: Your employer can both monitor your usage of that device, 412 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 1: and if they desire, they can flip a switch and 413 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:37,640 Speaker 1: restrict your capabilities. Like if you if you are using 414 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 1: a work phone and putting any private data on there, 415 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 1: it is It is simply naive to think that that 416 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 1: is somehow still your data. Your company, your big brother, 417 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,160 Speaker 1: whatever your corporate overlord is. They have it. They legally 418 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:55,720 Speaker 1: have it. Now. 419 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 4: Well, it's the same way of the expectation of privacy 420 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,919 Speaker 4: and emails with work emails. I mean, you know it 421 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 4: would be a bad look. But if the powers that 422 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 4: be wished to do so, they could find out what 423 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 4: we discuss in our emails at work, couldn't they. 424 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,399 Speaker 1: I hope so our puns are on fire. We are 425 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:18,440 Speaker 1: good at those. And yeah, you're absolutely right. So why 426 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:22,120 Speaker 1: should a vehicle logically be any different. It shouldn't. There's 427 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:26,160 Speaker 1: no valid case that a company car should be any 428 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 1: different from a company laptop. But let's take it away 429 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,200 Speaker 1: from that. Let's say it's not a vehicle that you're 430 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,200 Speaker 1: using for work. Let's say it's not a vehicle you're renting. 431 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:40,640 Speaker 1: Let's say you own a car, but you don't own 432 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 1: it outright, You, like million of other people in the world, 433 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 1: are paying off a car loan. Let's say here in 434 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,920 Speaker 1: the US, you have the average monthly car payment just 435 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:56,199 Speaker 1: right now, in twenty twenty, the average monthly car payment 436 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:58,679 Speaker 1: is going to be three hundred and eighty one dollars 437 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:03,960 Speaker 1: a month for a used car, recently a recent model 438 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 1: used car. It's going to be five hundred and thirty 439 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 1: dollars a month. If you, for some reason bought a 440 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 1: new car, Why did you do that? Why did you 441 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 1: buy a brand new car? That's sorry, let's cut past 442 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 1: my car stuff, ted talk, but please don't don't buy 443 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 1: a brand new car. What happens if you can't make 444 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,680 Speaker 1: that payment, if you are three hundred and eighty one 445 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 1: or five hundred and thirty dollars short for a month, 446 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,880 Speaker 1: what happens then? I mean, maybe you paid on time, right, 447 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 1: but there was some kind of grimlin on the wing 448 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 1: of the web that interfered, and whomever is in charge 449 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: of your loan, or whoever your lean holder is, they 450 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 1: don't see that payment in your system. What happens? 451 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 4: It's a good question. I mean, you know, it's the 452 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 4: classic model of this is that they come and repoe it, 453 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:55,840 Speaker 4: or they send someone to your home or your place 454 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,719 Speaker 4: of business to repossess the car. But this would be 455 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 4: a much more quickly executable form of this, and it 456 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 4: could happen for a much less egregious infraction. It would 457 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 4: take a lot to get your car repote But like 458 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 4: you said, Ben, if you miss one payment, all of 459 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 4: a sudden, they flip a switch and master control and 460 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 4: you know, you try to start up your car, or 461 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:19,840 Speaker 4: you use your what is it my key or whatever, 462 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 4: your keyless entry and nothing happens. You know, they literally 463 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 4: have put the kibosh on you driving your car because 464 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 4: of what could very well have been a clerical error. 465 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:33,720 Speaker 4: Maybe you're stranded in the middle of nowhere, you know, 466 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 4: I mean, who knows. I mean I would hope there 467 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 4: would be recourse that you could reach out and sort 468 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 4: it all out. But yeah, that's absolutely possible. 469 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 1: Clunk clunk, wamp wamp. Nothing happens when you try, when 470 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 1: you try to start, even if you're in an emergency. Right, 471 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: imagine a message plays on your sound system, your cutty 472 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 1: touch screen pops up and you are informed that this 473 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 1: vehicle will not operate until payment is registered, and if 474 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 1: payment is not registered in X number of days, the 475 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 1: lean holder will take possession of your vehicle. Should it 476 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 1: be legal for that authority to automatically shut off your car? Like, 477 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 1: let's say you're escaping a disaster scenario. You know what 478 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,479 Speaker 1: I mean, what if? What if this is a system 479 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 1: in place when the next hurricane hits Louisiana and someone 480 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 1: is trying like hell to get out of the way 481 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 1: of disaster, but because of three hundred and eighty one dollars, 482 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 1: they're stuck there and the water's rising. I mean, that's 483 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 1: an extreme example, but it's possible. 484 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, it is an extreme example, but it is 485 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 2: creepy to imagine it happening that way. The most common 486 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 2: way this occurs is that, let's say you've purchased a 487 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 2: vehicle from a smaller company or you know, a smaller 488 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 2: car lot somewhere that's probably used. Very often those vehicles 489 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 2: will have a hidden GPS tracker attached to that vehicle, 490 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 2: and very very commonly, it's what we were talking about before. 491 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 2: You're the same place where a lot of like if 492 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 2: you go get your emissions tested, you're onboard Diagnostics PORT 493 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:21,239 Speaker 2: or OBD two. A lot of times that's where if 494 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:25,200 Speaker 2: you're going to get emissions. Sometimes you'll get someone plugging 495 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 2: into that port, You're whoever is running your missions test 496 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 2: will plug into there. It gets all the information on 497 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 2: your vehicle of what's occurring. The most common thing that 498 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 2: will occur here is that the owner of that vehicle, 499 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 2: the car lot, the car used, car dealer, will have 500 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 2: something attached on that port and they will be able 501 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 2: to track your vehicle wherever it goes. In the case 502 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 2: that we're outlining here, you miss a payment, depending on 503 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 2: what the contract looks like that you signed, so if 504 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,479 Speaker 2: you miss two payments, probably they would be able to 505 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 2: know exactly where your vehicle is at three am on 506 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:06,560 Speaker 2: any given day, and a tow truck would be able 507 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 2: to pick it up without you having any idea that 508 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 2: it happened. 509 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:13,840 Speaker 1: Until until you see that empty parking spot, right and yeah, 510 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,560 Speaker 1: and it's gone. Yeah, And this is this is just 511 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 1: the beginning. We're starting with a microcosmic example. We're gonna 512 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 1: pause for a word from our sponsor, and then we'll 513 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:30,440 Speaker 1: be back with the larger and perhaps more troubling implications. 514 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 1: And we're back, So let's go bigger. What about state 515 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 1: control of vehicles? As a matter of fact. Instead of 516 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 1: going bigger, let's go sci fi everybody, get your movie 517 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 1: voices on in a world, et cetera. Remember those old 518 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:55,160 Speaker 1: scenes so common in TV and film where there's this 519 00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 1: gung ho police officer or detective and they're chasing a 520 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,040 Speaker 1: bad guy and they gotta catch up with the bad 521 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 1: guy and they see usually in a film, it's like 522 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 1: a slick, badass nineteen seventies muscle car, but the you know, 523 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 1: our Dudley do right is chasing the bad guy. And 524 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 1: then they see somebody roll up in a cool car 525 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 1: and they're like, get out, I'm comment deering the vehicle, 526 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,080 Speaker 1: and they hop in and there's a montage and a 527 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 1: chase scene, and everything ends with a happy note and 528 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 1: they've caught the purp. Imagine a world where an authority 529 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:33,600 Speaker 1: can hop into your car and then say the right 530 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,960 Speaker 1: passcode to your car system and boom, it's off to 531 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 1: the races. You never enter the equation. They just used 532 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:44,120 Speaker 1: your car for state business. Imagine where that's legal. Better yet, 533 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 1: imagine a world where a municipal, state, or federal authority 534 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:53,120 Speaker 1: can say shut down all civilian vehicles in the case 535 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 1: of unrest, you know, like a riot, like a pandemic. 536 00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 1: That's a little close to home. But like a pandemic, 537 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:05,080 Speaker 1: like an natural disaster, or a protest for instance, or 538 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 1: maybe shut it down because there is a state sanctioned 539 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:15,360 Speaker 1: violent activity. A central authority with the right kind of 540 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,799 Speaker 1: networking could do this. And that's that's one of the 541 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 1: things about autonomous vehicle systems that I wish we were 542 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:28,879 Speaker 1: talking about more often now. Autonomous vehicles will objectively save 543 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,360 Speaker 1: lives if you have If you have a city where 544 00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:37,120 Speaker 1: every car is functioning in a network system, there are 545 00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 1: going to be fewer deaths, there are going to be 546 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:45,600 Speaker 1: fewer vehicular injuries, but there are also there are also 547 00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: going to be tremendous opportunities for whomever big brother or 548 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:53,320 Speaker 1: little brother is to just you know, shut down the city. 549 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:55,440 Speaker 1: You don't have to shut down the whole city. If 550 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:59,879 Speaker 1: there's a if there's a neighborhood that is maybe prot 551 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:04,080 Speaker 1: testing something and you don't want media coverage and you 552 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,759 Speaker 1: don't want people physically getting out of that neighborhood to say, hey, 553 00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 1: they're killing us all because we're some you know, like 554 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:14,040 Speaker 1: we have a religion or an ethnicity to which this 555 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,120 Speaker 1: government or authority objects. Then you can just shut down 556 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:21,040 Speaker 1: the cars and you can blockade the roads, you can 557 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 1: turn off traffic. We're not there yet, but the technology 558 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:28,440 Speaker 1: is on the way. It's closer than you think, and 559 00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,000 Speaker 1: it always starts with the best of intentions. 560 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:33,239 Speaker 2: I have a feeling we're going to learn about it 561 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,279 Speaker 2: in like two months from now, a month from now, 562 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,640 Speaker 2: after everybody's trying to get back to normal, and then 563 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,560 Speaker 2: the pandemic gets worse and then they just shut off 564 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 2: all the cars. Sorry, it's a little. 565 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 4: Nikes, Matt, Yeah, sorry, Yeah. It makes me think of 566 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,480 Speaker 4: like a positive implementation of this in like science fiction 567 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,320 Speaker 4: is there's an anime show called Psychopaths that is about 568 00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,839 Speaker 4: like these cops that have these particular guns that will 569 00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:04,239 Speaker 4: not get they will not activate for lack of a 570 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:08,839 Speaker 4: better term, unless they detect certain characteristics in a subject, 571 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,000 Speaker 4: Like they won't allow you to, you know, use lethal 572 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:16,400 Speaker 4: force on a subject unless they meet certain criteria. And 573 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:19,080 Speaker 4: the gun can literally like look up the person's background, 574 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:20,920 Speaker 4: and it's sort of like pre crime kind of like 575 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,840 Speaker 4: in a minority report. But it's similar where like you know, 576 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:28,280 Speaker 4: it's bricked, the gun's bricked unless you it gives it's 577 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:30,799 Speaker 4: given the go ahead from HQ right to be used. 578 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,160 Speaker 4: Similar with with cars, it could be used for positive stuff, 579 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:37,120 Speaker 4: like maybe it could detect that someone's had too much 580 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:40,040 Speaker 4: alcohol and the car won't function. Right, Maybe there's a 581 00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,719 Speaker 4: way that, like you know, would actually prevent people from 582 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,239 Speaker 4: being their worst enemies, which people often do. They know 583 00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:47,680 Speaker 4: they shouldn't drive, but they're drunk and it makes them 584 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,160 Speaker 4: feel like they're invincible, so they do stupid stuff. If 585 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:52,480 Speaker 4: the car itself would not allow you to drive it, 586 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,520 Speaker 4: that would be a positive use of this kind of technology. 587 00:36:55,000 --> 00:37:00,640 Speaker 2: Right, And it could potentially detect like a key code 588 00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,600 Speaker 2: or something that was invalid or didn't have a special 589 00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:08,440 Speaker 2: you know, secondary authentication process to it, so you could 590 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:12,800 Speaker 2: prevent theft perhaps, I mean, there's there's there are possible 591 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:14,359 Speaker 2: things there that could be good. 592 00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, well this is this is a funny story. Is 593 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:22,680 Speaker 1: Larry David moment with my my old money Carlo. Now 594 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,759 Speaker 1: you guys, you guys know this because it's made me 595 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:31,640 Speaker 1: late to shows before. But my car had a malfunction 596 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:37,160 Speaker 1: in the security system, so that every so often, not 597 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:41,040 Speaker 1: every time, but every so often I would try to 598 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,400 Speaker 1: start the car and it would be convinced I was 599 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 1: trying to steal it because the authentication didn't work, and 600 00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:51,040 Speaker 1: so I would have to do a reset of the system, 601 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:53,600 Speaker 1: which was very easy to do, but it took about 602 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,360 Speaker 1: ten minutes. So sometimes I would just be ten or 603 00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 1: twelve minutes late because my car decided that I was 604 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:04,799 Speaker 1: trying to commit grand theft auto yourself, Oh myself, this 605 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 1: isn't this is a known issue with Chevy's. But the 606 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:14,439 Speaker 1: implications are right. You know, the technology has always been 607 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:17,960 Speaker 1: a double edged sword. It's always been the darkness that 608 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:20,920 Speaker 1: stares back at us. It's always been the gun that 609 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:24,680 Speaker 1: fires at the person wielding the gun, you know what 610 00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,799 Speaker 1: I mean, ever since the days of fire right. It 611 00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,400 Speaker 1: can keep you warm, it can burn you. That is 612 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:34,279 Speaker 1: the same thing with every single piece of technology humanity 613 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:38,279 Speaker 1: has ever made. We just we don't make stuff that 614 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:42,760 Speaker 1: cannot also be used for terrible things. And right now, 615 00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:47,280 Speaker 1: Big Brother, whether you want to call Big Brother a manufacturer, 616 00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:51,359 Speaker 1: a private software service, or a government, they won into 617 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:55,640 Speaker 1: your vehicle and they're already inside, you know what I mean. Like, 618 00:38:55,960 --> 00:39:01,399 Speaker 1: how terrifying is it that Facebook can have OS and 619 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,400 Speaker 1: software in a vehicle. I don't know if there's a 620 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:09,960 Speaker 1: solid Facebook OS for a vehicle right now, but the 621 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:13,440 Speaker 1: app alone is scary enough. And the initial arguments for 622 00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:16,360 Speaker 1: this are some of the ones we've outlined. The first argument, 623 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,680 Speaker 1: of course, is valid, and it's let's keep people safe. 624 00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:21,840 Speaker 1: We want to keep an eye on you, not to 625 00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:24,239 Speaker 1: stop you, not to hinder you, but to help you. 626 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:27,640 Speaker 1: And then there's the other idea, Hey, let's make things 627 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:32,759 Speaker 1: uniquely enjoyable. Oh you're you're a fan of explosions in 628 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:35,640 Speaker 1: the sky. Here's some other music you might like on 629 00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:40,280 Speaker 1: your drive. You know what I mean, in the sky? 630 00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:42,760 Speaker 2: What such good driving music? 631 00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:48,239 Speaker 1: That's true, It's true, it really is. Actually, then the 632 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:53,080 Speaker 1: idea is, the third idea is somewhat aspirational. Let's build 633 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:57,239 Speaker 1: a better system. We're not in your car because we 634 00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:59,880 Speaker 1: want to track your GPS because we want to monitor 635 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:02,960 Speaker 1: and because we want to use that data to affect 636 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,040 Speaker 1: your insurance premiums. Or we want to use that data 637 00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:09,560 Speaker 1: to figure out where and when we can stop traffic. 638 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:14,600 Speaker 1: Let's use that data in aggregate to figure out where 639 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:19,000 Speaker 1: we should build more lanes on a road system, or 640 00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:21,279 Speaker 1: where we should put a new stoplight. You know what 641 00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:25,840 Speaker 1: I mean, You're helping the greater good. That's the argument. 642 00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:29,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, Or you know, on the previous one to that, 643 00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:33,000 Speaker 2: like if you took those last two. Who's listening to 644 00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:34,760 Speaker 2: stuff they don't want you to know? And where? 645 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:42,279 Speaker 1: Yes, that's true, that's true. Look, Pandora's jar is already unscrewed, 646 00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:44,680 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, The badger's out of the bag. 647 00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:48,359 Speaker 1: If there was a canary in the coal mine of this, 648 00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:54,399 Speaker 1: the canary is dead. The canary was asphyxiated long ago, 649 00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:57,879 Speaker 1: probably back in the late nineties. And the stuff they 650 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:01,360 Speaker 1: don't want you to know is this. There was already 651 00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:06,000 Speaker 1: damning evidence that cars are hackable. And this evidence is 652 00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:09,000 Speaker 1: older than you think. This is not twenty twenty stuff. 653 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:10,439 Speaker 1: This happened years ago. 654 00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:16,839 Speaker 4: Yeah, a twenty fifteen remote hacking demo really shook up 655 00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:24,040 Speaker 4: the automotive industry. Major automakers responded by creating the Automotive 656 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:29,919 Speaker 4: Information Sharing and Analysis Center AUTO ISACK ISAAC. Yeah, okay, 657 00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:32,880 Speaker 4: I'll go with ISAC. And this was designed or the 658 00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:37,359 Speaker 4: intent was to research and discuss best practices for securing 659 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:42,640 Speaker 4: this stuff, for actually implementing cybersecurity and vehicles. 660 00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,319 Speaker 2: So let's quickly, Ben, just go over this a little bit. 661 00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:50,919 Speaker 2: In that twenty fifteen example, I believe I can't remember 662 00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:52,680 Speaker 2: it was wired or who it was, but there was 663 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:57,360 Speaker 2: a journalist that was there and experienced what it was 664 00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:03,240 Speaker 2: like to have his vehicle remotely controlled, fully remotely controlled. 665 00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:09,719 Speaker 2: Because the computer, the onboard computers are sophisticated enough at 666 00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:14,360 Speaker 2: this point to where with that you know, always on, 667 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:21,160 Speaker 2: always connected technology, they were able that the hackers or 668 00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:24,640 Speaker 2: the demonstrators here were able to break. We're able to 669 00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:29,160 Speaker 2: turn on every electronic piece of equipment within the vehicle, 670 00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:32,839 Speaker 2: every component, to slow the car down, speed the car up, 671 00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:39,200 Speaker 2: to control the steering. Even it was really terrifying. The 672 00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,440 Speaker 2: only upside to the whole thing was that the demonstrators, 673 00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:46,319 Speaker 2: the hackers, it required them to have physical access to 674 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,920 Speaker 2: the vehicle before they could implement that full control. In 675 00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:52,880 Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, right in twenty fifteen. 676 00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:56,359 Speaker 1: In twenty fifteen, right, yeah, you're on the money man, 677 00:42:56,440 --> 00:43:02,680 Speaker 1: because the issue here is that that twenty fifteen car 678 00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:07,320 Speaker 1: was like many vehicles, effectively air gapped, meaning there must 679 00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:10,319 Speaker 1: have been some sort of physical interaction at the time 680 00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:14,880 Speaker 1: of the hack or before the hack was implemented. But 681 00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:19,920 Speaker 1: now it's twenty twenty, and it would be naive to 682 00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:24,520 Speaker 1: assume this technology and all the vulnerabilities it brings will 683 00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,880 Speaker 1: not be exploited. If you're listening to this now, whether 684 00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:31,160 Speaker 1: you love cars or you hate them, or you are 685 00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:35,239 Speaker 1: ambivalent to them, you don't care about their presence. You 686 00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:39,080 Speaker 1: need to be aware. Big brother, whatever big brother you 687 00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:44,520 Speaker 1: want to specify, is already in your new car. And 688 00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:46,840 Speaker 1: they are going to tell you that they are preventing 689 00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:49,879 Speaker 1: hackers from hurting you. And when they say that, they 690 00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:53,319 Speaker 1: are telling the truth. But like Emily Dickinson says, they're 691 00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:56,080 Speaker 1: telling the truth, but they're telling it slant because they 692 00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:59,960 Speaker 1: are also fully capable of doing everything. Those hackers would 693 00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:04,360 Speaker 1: do every single thing, they just haven't done it yet, 694 00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:09,239 Speaker 1: at least officially. And and that's that's where we are. 695 00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:14,880 Speaker 1: You know, we are. We are as a species, as drivers, 696 00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:21,400 Speaker 1: as car owners, and as pedestrians. We are entering a world. Uh. 697 00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:24,880 Speaker 1: We're entering a new normal. There's no turning back. This 698 00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:27,440 Speaker 1: is going to happen. It's already happening. 699 00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:28,319 Speaker 3: Uh. 700 00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:32,000 Speaker 1: You know, Elvis has left the building and uh and 701 00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:36,640 Speaker 1: now uh, now you have to wonder if this technology exists, 702 00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:40,120 Speaker 1: what will it be used for? And what what will 703 00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:42,719 Speaker 1: the motivations be, what will the fallout be, what will 704 00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:45,960 Speaker 1: the consequences be? We want to hear from you we 705 00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:47,759 Speaker 1: have a lot of we have a lot of truck 706 00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:50,640 Speaker 1: drivers in our audience. We have you know, a lot 707 00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:54,319 Speaker 1: of our fellow listeners are driving and deliveries. A lot 708 00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:55,720 Speaker 1: of us love road trips. 709 00:44:57,520 --> 00:44:59,240 Speaker 4: We are a car culture. 710 00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:01,680 Speaker 1: You know, as So, where do you think this is going? 711 00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:04,600 Speaker 1: What have you seen? Like? I would love to hear 712 00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:07,239 Speaker 1: if anybody has been affected by this already. If you're 713 00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:11,880 Speaker 1: driving for a fleet and maybe you're your administrator knew 714 00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:15,600 Speaker 1: some stuff about you that surprised you and they were like, oh, hey, 715 00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:20,120 Speaker 1: you know Jane or John Jorgensen. It's it's interesting, you 716 00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:24,560 Speaker 1: made way better time to Denver than you did last week. 717 00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:26,680 Speaker 1: And you're like, what, how did you know I was 718 00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:29,600 Speaker 1: in Denver last week? I wasn't driving my work truck. 719 00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:31,160 Speaker 1: I was driving my own car. 720 00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:34,920 Speaker 2: So this is something I want to bring up right 721 00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:38,200 Speaker 2: here towards the end. If you are feeling just uneasy 722 00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:43,000 Speaker 2: about this whole concept of you know, someone whoever it is, 723 00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:47,920 Speaker 2: for any reason, watching where you go, what you do, 724 00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:52,239 Speaker 2: and all of that in your vehicle, I would say, 725 00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:55,080 Speaker 2: go go out to your car, your vehicle, whatever it is, 726 00:45:55,520 --> 00:46:00,040 Speaker 2: check that diagnostic port, look underneath your chassis, take a 727 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:04,520 Speaker 2: little look anywhere on metal surfaces, underneath your vehicle, or 728 00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:08,720 Speaker 2: in compartments, because these these things are very tiny. Mm hmmm, 729 00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:11,840 Speaker 2: they can fit really anywhere where there's a check. The 730 00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:14,799 Speaker 2: wheel well, Yeah, wheel well is really a really good 731 00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:15,479 Speaker 2: place to check. 732 00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:19,120 Speaker 4: The really clever one from Better Call Saw was it 733 00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:23,759 Speaker 4: was inside of a gas cap assembly. He had to 734 00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:25,960 Speaker 4: pop it off with us with a screwdriver, and before 735 00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:29,319 Speaker 4: he found it, he disassembles his entire car before having 736 00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:31,880 Speaker 4: an aha moment when he realizes it's inside of the 737 00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:35,719 Speaker 4: actual gas cap. So yeah, very very small, and you're 738 00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:37,120 Speaker 4: just gonna keep getting smaller, you know. 739 00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:41,200 Speaker 2: So yes, do that check that all of that stuff. 740 00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:45,719 Speaker 2: Don't disassemble your car, please. But again, like here's the 741 00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:50,520 Speaker 2: other thing. If you're so worried about that, maybe don't be. 742 00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:54,960 Speaker 2: Because if you are like almost every person who drives 743 00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:59,400 Speaker 2: a vehicle, you travel with a cellular phone of some kind, 744 00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:04,120 Speaker 2: and you are transmitting, you know, unless you're extremely careful, 745 00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:07,600 Speaker 2: and even if you are extremely careful, you're likely transmitting 746 00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:11,920 Speaker 2: every place you go, you know, how fast you're going, 747 00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:15,719 Speaker 2: how long you stay at those places. The data that 748 00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:19,680 Speaker 2: exists around that device is far more terrifying than the 749 00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:21,400 Speaker 2: ones that could be in your vehicle. 750 00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:26,600 Speaker 1: Well said, Well said. So that's that's our show for today. 751 00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:30,760 Speaker 1: But just because the episode ends doesn't mean the show ends. 752 00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:33,680 Speaker 1: We want to hear from you. If you're driving right 753 00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:38,640 Speaker 1: now and you are inspired to contact us, wait until 754 00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:42,279 Speaker 1: you're out of your car and find us. We're on 755 00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:44,480 Speaker 1: the internet. We're all over it. You can find us 756 00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:46,480 Speaker 1: on Facebook, you can find us on Instagram. You can 757 00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:49,080 Speaker 1: find us on Twitter, not just as a show, but 758 00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:50,440 Speaker 1: as individuals. 759 00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:53,239 Speaker 4: If you would like to find me, you can do 760 00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:56,279 Speaker 4: so on Instagram. I am at how Now Noel Brown. 761 00:47:56,320 --> 00:48:00,000 Speaker 1: And I am on Twitter at benbullan HSW. I am 762 00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:03,799 Speaker 1: on Instagram in a burst of creativity, calling myself at 763 00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:04,560 Speaker 1: Ben Bolin. 764 00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:07,719 Speaker 2: You can find me on Instagram. I am Matt Frederick. 765 00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:12,200 Speaker 2: There's an e in there underscore, iHeart and Yeah. I 766 00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:15,160 Speaker 2: haven't posted in a long time, but maybe I'm gonna 767 00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:18,520 Speaker 2: start posting pictures of oh, I don't know, close up 768 00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:21,920 Speaker 2: shots of my backyard. That's pretty much it right now. 769 00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:24,200 Speaker 4: I want to see that yellow submarine cut out and 770 00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:27,719 Speaker 4: it's full glory, Matt, oh yeah, with you posing behind it, 771 00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:30,839 Speaker 4: peeking through the little portholes. Can you do that for us. 772 00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:34,400 Speaker 2: Sure, but only if I can get Only if you 773 00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,319 Speaker 2: guys will give me permission to photoshop your faces in there, 774 00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:40,480 Speaker 2: because there are four holes, so I could get all 775 00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:41,279 Speaker 2: four of us in there. 776 00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:44,800 Speaker 4: That'd be great. I get full permission. Ben. 777 00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:50,200 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, I think that chicken has flew the coop. Man. 778 00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:56,719 Speaker 1: You have many, many pictures of our faces. All I 779 00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:59,560 Speaker 1: would ask is a personal favor, is that you try 780 00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:03,720 Speaker 1: to find one where where I at least don't look sketchy. 781 00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:05,640 Speaker 1: I know that's that's a tall milkshake. 782 00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:11,160 Speaker 4: All right, Okay, so if Matt gets one thousand new followers, 783 00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:14,200 Speaker 4: he will post this picture. 784 00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:16,400 Speaker 2: Please don't follow, make it. 785 00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:17,839 Speaker 4: Happen one thousand. 786 00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:22,680 Speaker 1: Here's the one thousand and beyond. We also have a 787 00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:25,400 Speaker 1: like if you're a person who says, wow, guys, you 788 00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:29,400 Speaker 1: just talked about how scary the internet is, I'm terrified 789 00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:32,680 Speaker 1: to do that. I don't want to be on the internet. 790 00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:35,680 Speaker 1: We get it. You can contact us a different way. 791 00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:38,959 Speaker 4: We have a phone number, that's right. It is one 792 00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:43,480 Speaker 4: eight three three std w y TK. 793 00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:48,120 Speaker 2: We've been getting tons of amazing messages since all of 794 00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:51,840 Speaker 2: this stuff has been going down. Thank you to everyone 795 00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:56,200 Speaker 2: who has reached out. You know thinking about you, Wayne. Yes, 796 00:49:56,280 --> 00:50:00,480 Speaker 2: I have been getting your messages thinking about Ben. You 797 00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:05,240 Speaker 2: know you were mentioning truck drivers or fleet vehicle drivers. 798 00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:07,960 Speaker 2: We've been getting a ton of people writing in about that. 799 00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:11,080 Speaker 2: I'm going to share with you guys, one particular call 800 00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:16,080 Speaker 2: we got in from someone thinking hard about the broader 801 00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:24,000 Speaker 2: implications of our current situation and his like completely salient 802 00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:28,480 Speaker 2: arguments about why we could be in a very dangerous 803 00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:34,680 Speaker 2: position with regards to the United States and China. Just 804 00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:38,680 Speaker 2: so many great, great things coming in. Thank you to everyone. 805 00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:40,719 Speaker 2: Thank you, continue please. 806 00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:44,080 Speaker 1: And if none of that quite bags your badgers, if 807 00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:48,520 Speaker 1: you hate phones, if you hate social media, never fear, friends, 808 00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:52,760 Speaker 1: fellow conspiracy realists, we have one way you can always 809 00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:55,319 Speaker 1: get at us every day of the year until we 810 00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:58,560 Speaker 1: get black bagged twenty four to seven, and that is this. 811 00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:00,360 Speaker 1: We have a good old fashioned email. 812 00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:23,359 Speaker 2: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com. Stuff they don't 813 00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:26,319 Speaker 2: want you to know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 814 00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:30,400 Speaker 2: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 815 00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:32,840 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.