WEBVTT - The Ring of Gyges 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:06.000 Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 0:00:06.000 --> 0:00:13.520 Works dot com. Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:16.440 your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglass. Julie, 0:00:16.640 --> 0:00:19.040 what would you do if you could turn invisible? Would 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:24.079 immediately become visible? Yes? Yes, that's well that's a wise choice, 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:27.639 especially based on the research. Right. Well, I just don't 0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:31.000 have any desire to become invisible. I'm in the world. 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:36.159 I'm here. Yeah, yeah, okay, it sounds good, you me, m. 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:38.840 I feel like I would just want to walk around 0:00:38.880 --> 0:00:41.959 for a little bit, you know, just sort of observe. 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:47.159 But nothing would just you know, just the street, you know, 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:51.040 people going about their daily business outside of their homes. Yeah, 0:00:51.080 --> 0:00:54.680 but I mean webcams, that's what those are for. Yeah, 0:00:54.840 --> 0:01:00.600 but I mean, you know what I'm saying, not way Yeah, yeah, 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:04.080 I don't know. This is where the topic gets gets interesting, right, 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:06.200 And that's why we can't help but but love the 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:09.720 idea of invisibility in fiction and in myth and why 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:12.000 we've had it around for so long. I mean, it 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:14.960 dates back, you know, at least a classical mythology at 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:17.720 the cap of Hades, the helm of Hades, that turned 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:20.959 the where invisible. And I'm sure a number of different 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:25.480 invisibility gadgets or artifacts come to mind with our popular 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:28.360 culture as well. Well. I was thinking about this, and 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:31.960 I was thinking about J. K. Rowlings once imaginary book 0:01:32.360 --> 0:01:36.959 now actual book, The Tales of the Beetle Bard, which 0:01:37.040 --> 0:01:40.400 takes on this invisibility trope, and one of the brothers 0:01:41.040 --> 0:01:45.040 is granted deaths invisibility rope. I won't go through the 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:46.960 whole story, but just no, this is what happens right 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:49.880 when the brothers gets the rope, which allows him to 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:53.600 escape death. And what I love about this use of 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:58.480 the invisibility cloak is that it shows the other aspect 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:02.400 to invisibility, which is a kind of immortality and escape. Right. 0:02:02.480 --> 0:02:06.960 If you're not observed, then you can't be uh, you 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:11.080 can't be removed, right. Yeah, It's kind of an escape 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:14.280 of freeing of the physical form. You almost become pure 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:18.480 thought and observation, which is tantalizing. Yeah, And I guess 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:21.840 it speaks to your desire to perhaps just go about 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:27.120 people's daily lives and watch what's happening, the mechanations behind 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:30.760 the scenes of life, yeah, or just sort of it 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:32.960 almost be like just sort of hitting the off switch 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:35.120 on things for a little bit, like the almost like 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:37.519 getting a massage, you know, just go invisible for a 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:42.320 little bit. I don't know. But but but but of course, 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:45.480 with the power of invisibility becomes the threat of corruption. Right, 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:47.839 That's the other great trope with this, The big one, 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:50.760 uh for for modern listeners is of course J. R. 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:54.720 Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings and the one ring 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:59.480 that turns the where invisible but also drives that that 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:03.040 where increasingly towards the dark side and into an evil 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:08.280 natured and into enslavement by diabolical forces or H. G. 0:03:08.440 --> 0:03:11.720 Wells invisible man who takes more of a certainly a 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:16.840 scientific chemical approach to ultimately turning himself invisible. And and 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:20.240 he's already kind of a semi rotten person before he 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:22.680 turns invisible. But then it just gets even worse and 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:25.639 more tragic once he transforms. And it doesn't give him 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:27.959 the kind of power that he imagined, right, I mean, 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:31.560 it does truly render him invisible in his actions, and 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:35.160 it doesn't and actually like impotent, right yeah, Like he's 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:38.960 cowering and naked on the streets of London. Uh, he's invisible, 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:41.560 but he and he has the grand designs eventually about 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:43.280 how he's going to have his reign of terror, but 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:48.640 none of that comes to fruition. Ah, that's the invisibility 0:03:48.640 --> 0:03:52.880 cloak for you, or rather just invisibility in general. Indeed, 0:03:53.360 --> 0:03:56.840 now in this episode, though, we're going to talk about 0:03:57.080 --> 0:04:04.000 one particular invisibility in abling artifact from from myth but 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:07.480 but also from philosophy, that being the Ring of Gyges. 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:12.320 This dates back more than two thousand years to work 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:17.200 by Plato titled The Republic. Yeah, The Republic is arguably 0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:21.440 the most popular and most widely taught of Plato's writings. 0:04:22.040 --> 0:04:25.480 It's not quite an essay, but it's not quite a 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:29.840 novel or a play, although it does borrow from from 0:04:30.520 --> 0:04:35.440 fictional techniques. Right. Um, it's pretty heavy on dialogue. If 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:38.320 you've ever seen My Dinner with Andre, you can think 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:41.520 of it as like a twenty year old version of 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:46.719 that movie. This extended conversation, Um, that concerns justice. And 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:51.000 this conversation goes on for ten books divided into ten books, 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:54.880 and the participants in the debate are friends or acquaintances 0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:58.480 of the central speaker, who is Socrates, and they conduct 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:01.400 their conversations in the house of one of the participants, 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:05.560 and the main speakers are Socrates, uh Cephalus, Pole, Marcus, 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:13.880 Cephalus's son varsimakos Um, and Glaucon and Adimantus, which Glaucon 0:05:14.040 --> 0:05:18.599 and Adeimantus are Plato's half brothers, by the way, Yes, 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:22.479 and of course Plato for just a reminder for anyone 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:25.080 who's just a little foggy on it. Plato was a 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:28.720 classical Greek philosopher who lived from four to three seven 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:32.200 b C. And he stands, with his student Aristotle, as 0:05:32.279 --> 0:05:34.920 one of the key pillars of Western philosophy, science, and 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:42.919 arguably even Western culture itself. Now, his dialogues covered philosophy, logic, ethics, rhetoric, religion, mathematics, 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:45.359 and his work is as potent today as it ever was. 0:05:45.400 --> 0:05:47.560 I mean, just consider our episode from last year on 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:50.400 Supernormal Stimuli where we talked a little bit about Plato's 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:52.520 theory of forms. You know, these are these are ideas 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:56.920 that still resonates strongly with the with the modern reader. Yeah, 0:05:56.960 --> 0:05:59.880 And what is so amazing about the Republic is a 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:03.960 it does commit this idea of justice in so many 0:06:04.000 --> 0:06:07.000 different angles and from so many different perspectives and voices, 0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:13.960 and so the speakers all represent various ways of approaching 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:16.880 this task at hands. So you see this office, you 0:06:16.960 --> 0:06:21.400 see the Socratic method right at play now. In Book one, 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:28.120 section four, Socrates refute Thrasi Mukos's assertion with that justice 0:06:28.320 --> 0:06:31.960 is in the interest of the stronger or might is right, 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:38.200 and he's arguing this kind of situational ethics fashion mucos is, 0:06:38.720 --> 0:06:44.160 he's praising the benefits of a moorlity and eventually uh 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:47.680 fashions and part of my grade. By the way, it 0:06:47.760 --> 0:06:50.640 takes off from the conversation, and it's left up to 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:56.000 Glaucon and Audiomontis to really extend this idea of wit 0:06:56.000 --> 0:06:59.840 what do you mean might is right? And Glaucon actually 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:05.000 poses a challenge to Socrates um he questions how genuine 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:10.080 any human being's commitment to justice actually does and he 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:14.640 does this by introducing a thought experiment, yes, a thought 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:17.760 experiment in the form of a myth, with a little 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:20.320 bit of a history thrown in there as well, the 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:24.680 legend of guys Uh. This concerns Gys of Lydia, Lydia 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:27.560 being an Iron Age kingdom and what is now western Turkey, 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:30.880 and Gus was a real king reigning from seven sixteen 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:35.160 BC to BC, and by all all accounts seem to 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:37.640 agree that he did in fact seize the throne by 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:42.640 killing King Condallas and marrying Condallas's queen, but the details 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:46.080 very significantly, and sometimes he's a bodyguard goaded into killing 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:49.760 the king by the queen herself, or he's Kandallas's right 0:07:49.800 --> 0:07:53.920 hand man, their varying levels of of conspiracy involved in 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:59.280 different tellings, but Plato focuses on a version that involves 0:07:59.320 --> 0:08:01.880 the use of a man magical ring, a ring found 0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:05.240 on the finger of a corpse in an earthquake uncovered tomb, 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:08.880 and then guys a shepherd. In this telling quickly discovers 0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:12.080 the power of the ring quote he contrived to be 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:14.800 chosen one of the messengers who were sent by the 0:08:14.840 --> 0:08:17.840 shepherds to the court, where as soon as he arrived, 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:21.000 he seduced the queen and with her help, conspired against 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:24.200 the king and slew him and took the kingdom. So 0:08:24.280 --> 0:08:27.360 the details are a little foggy on exactly how he 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:30.320 used the ring and its power of invisibility to certainly 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:34.240 seduce the queen kill the king. That's a little more straightforward. 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:38.320 I guess. But in short, the ring gave this guy 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:41.320 the power of anonymity. It freed him from the risks 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:44.760 of judgment, control and punishment, and so he simply took 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:47.320 what he wanted, the life that he wanted to take, 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:50.120 the position he wanted to claim as his own, and 0:08:50.200 --> 0:08:53.920 the woman he wanted to bed. Right, So Glacon doesn't 0:08:53.960 --> 0:08:56.400 just you know, tell the story then dropped from Mike, 0:08:56.800 --> 0:08:59.839 He goes on to say, Hey, I'm trying to demonstrate 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:02.720 something here that not only do people prefer to be 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:06.880 unjust rather than just, but it's actually rational for them 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:10.960 to do so, because look at this guy. He indulges 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:15.320 and all of his urges, he's honored and rewarded with wealth. 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:20.080 But the completely just man, on the other hand, might 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:22.240 be scorned, and I mean it might be sort of 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:27.559 a wretched character. And his brother Adeimantas chimes in and says, yeah, no, 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:32.000 one praises justice for its own sake, but only for 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:35.000 the rewards it allows you to reap, and both this 0:09:35.160 --> 0:09:39.160 life and the afterlife. And he challenges Socrates to show 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:43.680 justice to be desirable in the absence of any external rewards, 0:09:43.760 --> 0:09:48.600 that justice for justice's own sake is desirable, just like 0:09:48.720 --> 0:09:52.480 something like joy or health. So the argument here is 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:55.840 that anyone who put on this ring would be corrupted. 0:09:55.960 --> 0:09:58.199 If you had a good person and a bad person 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:01.720 who gave him each a magical ring of guys, both 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:03.800 of them would end up at the same place, like 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:08.679 you know, invisible and naked in a supermarket, causing havoc. Right, 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:11.640 because that person would be rewarded with whatever they wanted, 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:15.920 as opposed to doing the right thing. Um, but doing 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:18.600 the right thing when you're unobserved. That's the question mark, 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:21.760 which we'll get to. Indeed, now I'm glad that you 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:26.120 mentioned dropping the mic, because definitely um Plato is not 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:29.839 a boom might dropper type of guy. Um in the 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:32.800 Republic itself, it's a sprawling work, and we are by 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:35.880 no means attempting to summarize it. It's not it's not 0:10:35.920 --> 0:10:37.880 a Q Q and A. It's not someone say hey, 0:10:37.920 --> 0:10:41.320 what's justice Plato and says it's this. It's um. It's 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:43.520 not even I tend to think of it in terms 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:46.120 of a of a war, like not a particular battle, 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:49.160 but a series of battles. It's a sprawling work, and 0:10:49.520 --> 0:10:52.800 in the work Socrates takes a very long form approach 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:56.760 to tackling the issue of morality and justice, but ultimately 0:10:56.960 --> 0:11:00.640 he argues that a truly just man is not enslaved 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:03.400 by his appetite, so the ring would not tempt him 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:07.200 to abandon his principles. But we're humans, and humans have 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:11.400 this overpowering tendency to be corrupted by power, leading leading 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:14.280 to pure any abuse of power, any kind of horrible 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:18.200 situation you can imagine. However, he ultimately argues in this 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:21.679 that philosophers are the most just and the least susceptible 0:11:21.679 --> 0:11:25.040 to corruption. So the ideal republic, a true utopia, would 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:29.800 be governed by philosopher kings, which hasn't exactly turned out 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:34.400 to be the case over history. And Uh, the reason 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:39.080 why this Ring of God she is so such a 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:44.240 potent image is because it's not just the invisibility, it's secrecy. 0:11:44.320 --> 0:11:46.920 And so when you look at a republic, a state, 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:52.120 a government, you know that the increasing secrecy that that 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:57.200 covers a politicians actions can cause that person to gain 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:04.720 more power oh her time, and that secrecy begins to 0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:08.360 act like as some sort of invisibility cloak. And so 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:13.200 that's why Socrates is so interested in this idea, and 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:16.720 that's why it takes ten books to plumb the depths 0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:21.000 of it, because you know, the question what is justice 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:26.680 remains just as crucial today as it did years ago. Indeed, 0:12:26.880 --> 0:12:28.360 you know I can't help but be reminded of our 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:31.520 episode on the Panopticon. Like a message of the Panopticon, 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:35.320 it's basically saying, there is no ring of gyges. There's 0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:38.080 no ring. You're not turning invisible. You are visible at 0:12:38.120 --> 0:12:40.920 all times, so act accordingly, which is two sides of 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:47.520 the same coin, because both exact absolute power. Right, So 0:12:47.679 --> 0:12:51.319 invisibility you have absolutely absolute power. And then if you 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:55.319 have omniscience right and you can see what everybody is doing, 0:12:56.320 --> 0:13:00.360 then you have absolute power, which would absolutely corrupt. And 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:02.800 then of course there's a very corrupting element to being 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:06.040 just completely under the boothills of a power and limited 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:08.600 in your your freedom. We're gonna do a little bit 0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:10.720 more still switching here on morality, and we're gonna look 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:15.080 at Adam Smith, who was a Scottish moral philosopher, a 0:13:15.160 --> 0:13:19.920 pioneer of political economy, and a key Scottish Enlightenment figure. 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:22.880 And he's best known for his writings on free market 0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:26.480 capitalism and the Division of Labor. But he also wrote 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:29.680 about morality and self interest in his seventeen fifty nine 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:33.200 book The Theory of Moral Sentiments, and he argued that 0:13:33.240 --> 0:13:37.280 morality comes from empathy. So you see someone suffer, or 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:40.280 you think about someone's suffering, and you make a moral 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:43.360 choice which may bolster that person's well being. Right, You're 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:46.319 you're kind of duped into doing the right thing by 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:50.400 virtue of imagining yourself in that person's position. And his 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:53.559 idea is that both the individual and society benefit if 0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:57.960 we pursue our own interest through virtuous actions. Now, Caroline 0:13:57.960 --> 0:14:03.640 grog War profiles Stanford economist Russ Roberts, who has a 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:07.920 book about Smith called How Adam Smith Can Change Her Life, 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:10.960 and he says that Smith's writings are the best self 0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:14.199 self help advice that no one has ever known about 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:17.000 or written about. And he says that the four essential 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:20.800 pieces of wisdom from Smith are one that we are 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:25.000 all innately self interested, but we're also wired to care 0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:30.240 about others. To the desire to be loved is universal. Three, 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:33.040 don't waste your energy trying to change things you can't control. 0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:35.920 Heard that one before, right, uh? And number four let 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:40.440 go of attachments, and by attachments he means anything that 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:43.400 causes us to obsess on what we have now and 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:46.800 what we want in the future, and violations of our 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:51.040 expected outcomes concerning that, which is kind of he gets 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:53.160 a little bit Buddhist there, which is interesting for this 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:57.200 seventeen fifty nine book. And so all of this is 0:14:57.240 --> 0:14:59.520 really well and good, but in terms of putting aside 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:03.000 our own agendas and choosing the virtuous action, it does 0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:07.200 require a measure of empathy, which means it would be 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:12.520 ideal if we could just last society with an empathy 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:15.840 inducing molecule to get us all on the same ethics page. Right. 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:18.680 I can't imagine that going wrong at all, No, right, 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:21.040 I just just I mean it's getting piped in right now, 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:24.240 and how stuff works as we speak, Um, you know, 0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:26.360 I could, of course. But there is a study that 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:29.320 relates to this kind of idea. There's a two thousand 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:33.440 and ninth Center for Neuroeconomic Study with graduate student or 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:38.440 Perrazza who found a direct relationship between oxytocin released in 0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:43.320 blood and the subjective experience of empathy when participants watched 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:46.880 an emotionally charged video about a four year old boy 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:52.480 with terminal cancer. Those who were more empathetically engaged by 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:57.560 the video for more generous when asked to share resources 0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:00.800 they controlled with a stranger in this lobbic speriment. So 0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:04.560 what we're talking about is I'm using synthetic oxytocin into people, 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:08.920 which then caused them, relative to those given a placebo 0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:14.640 by the way, to be more generous towards a stranger. Now, 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:19.240 in a follow up study, they took a little testosterone, 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:23.480 which inhibits empathy by blocking the action of oxytocin, and 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:28.840 when researchers administered synthetic tster testosterone to these men in 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:32.120 the study, they were less generous when they were asked 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:35.200 to split money with a stranger, and they were more 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:40.520 likely to punish those who were ungenerous towards them. So 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:44.280 this has led some people to call oxytocin the trust 0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:48.680 or moral molecule. But um, this is a bit of 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:51.320 an oversimplification, right, because first of all, we're just talking 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:56.240 about some lab experiments, and uh, second of all, there's 0:16:56.320 --> 0:17:00.560 a lot more going on under the surface of morality, 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:03.960 because you have to consider that morality may be a 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:08.040 situation dependent sort of thing at play. I'm talking about 0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:11.240 the sort of moral code that you might have been 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:13.400 raised with as a child that would affect the sort 0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:16.720 of decisions that you would make. Um Also, what kind 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:19.439 of society do you live in? Is it stable? Is 0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:23.199 it or is it just a war torn society that 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:28.520 has no stability? The socioeconomic environment is in shreds. If 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:31.200 that's the case, then all of a sudden, your choices 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:35.639 become fewer and the types of choices you would make 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:38.400 would be very different. And I was thinking about this 0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:43.040 in terms of our episode on politeness, because that there 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:46.080 are some parallels here, because in the politeness episode we 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:49.720 were talking about face threatening acts and not getting people 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:52.120 tackles up, you know, and trying to do the right 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:57.440 thing so that your public self was accepted right, which 0:17:57.520 --> 0:18:00.520 meant that we might do something called little bit of 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:04.720 dramaturgical analysis on people. We might look at people as 0:18:04.840 --> 0:18:09.560 performing a part in performing politeness when we're representing our 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:13.880 public selves, and morality may operate in a similar way. Now, 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:16.879 of course, when we talk about morality in the human sense, 0:18:16.920 --> 0:18:19.760 we we draw in all the human complications that come 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:22.879 with it, right, and all the different associations, uh, you know, 0:18:22.920 --> 0:18:28.160 such as laws, values, the nature of altruism, the duality 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:31.760 of right and wrong. But there's a different way to 0:18:31.760 --> 0:18:36.000 look in morality. For instance, Dale Peterson, um science writer 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:39.760 who wrote a book titled The Moral Lives of Animals, 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:42.160 And this is a book that it would be easy 0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:45.280 to dismiss his core arguments here as him just saying, oh, 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:49.480 animals are like people because they have some sense of morality. 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:51.720 But I think the there's a deeper statement to be 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:55.639 made about morality itself, which he uh he describes as 0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:58.800 a quote moral organ And one of the examples he 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:02.679 makes as an elephant versus say, a human nose. Both 0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:07.520 are essentially the same thing. One is larger, physically larger, 0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:11.760 one has a has a tremendously more more power to 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:14.640 to sense things in its environment. But they both stem 0:19:14.720 --> 0:19:16.320 from the same purpose. They kind of grow from the 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:19.240 same roots, right. He argues that the features of human 0:19:19.280 --> 0:19:22.440 morality differ from other animals, but it's all ultimately a 0:19:22.520 --> 0:19:25.000 part of the brains limbic system, which of course is 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:28.119 tied to emotion, behavior, and motivation, as as well as 0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:32.280 a number of other functions. So Peterson is arguing that 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:36.160 the purpose of morality is to negotiate the inherent serious 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:41.080 conflict that can exist between self and others. So again 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:44.640 it's not about simplistic models of morality based on laws 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:47.440 or right and wrong. It's more of a natural instinct 0:19:47.440 --> 0:19:51.760 to guide behavior and social interaction for an organism. So 0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:55.680 on a very basic level, that would be what to eat, 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:58.000 what not to eat, who to bite, who not to bite, 0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:02.879 how to behave in this potential mating scenario versus this 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:06.639 conflict over food. Again that it's a it's it's a 0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:12.480 moral guideline that is just a part of our DNA, right, 0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:15.679 and some of those moral guidelines help in terms of 0:20:15.800 --> 0:20:20.959 overall species survival. Right, So all what's the term all boats, 0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:27.360 One boat rises, all boats rise, that's the way. Yeah. Uh, 0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:30.159 point being that if you can take care of a 0:20:30.240 --> 0:20:33.520 sector of people, everybody benefits from it. So in that way, 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:37.520 morality should be exacted. But again the question appears about 0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:41.040 whether or not people will actually engage in it when 0:20:41.080 --> 0:20:44.560 they are not being watched. And this is this again 0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:47.400 bringing in the panopticon. This sense that you're being watched 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:51.040 plays into a couple of these studies. Um. This is 0:20:51.040 --> 0:20:54.800 from the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology by see 0:20:54.840 --> 0:20:59.120 Neil McCrae, Gallen V. Budenhausen and Alan Alan B. Milne, 0:20:59.320 --> 0:21:01.880 who found the people in a room with a mirror 0:21:02.240 --> 0:21:07.160 were comparatively less likely to judge others based on social 0:21:07.280 --> 0:21:11.800 stereotypes about for example, sex, race, or religion. And boden 0:21:11.840 --> 0:21:14.400 Hausn't says when people are made to be self aware, 0:21:14.920 --> 0:21:17.760 they are likelier to stop and think about what they 0:21:17.760 --> 0:21:23.440 are doing. Physical self reflection, in other words, encourages philosophical 0:21:23.840 --> 0:21:28.199 self reflection. And then another study in two thousand and 0:21:28.320 --> 0:21:32.960 six by Melissa Bateson at All titled quote Cues of 0:21:33.000 --> 0:21:38.960 being Watched Enhanced cooperation in a real world setting examine 0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:41.840 the effect of an image of a pair of eyes 0:21:42.400 --> 0:21:46.560 on contributions to an honesty box used to collect money 0:21:46.560 --> 0:21:50.120 for drinks in a university coffee room. And here's the deal. 0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:54.159 You'd stick on some Google eyes on a contributions box 0:21:55.640 --> 0:21:58.040 and people will pay nearly three times as much for 0:21:58.080 --> 0:22:03.240 their drinks. Then, if it's just a regular contribution hots, 0:22:03.560 --> 0:22:05.520 why do we not see more of this at coffee shops? 0:22:06.440 --> 0:22:08.399 Stick some Google if you're listening you work in a 0:22:08.440 --> 0:22:10.280 coffee shop, Put some googly eyes on that tip jar. 0:22:11.080 --> 0:22:13.760 But already feel like I'm being watched, they have to 0:22:13.800 --> 0:22:17.200 turn around. Sometimes the money in and it feels you 0:22:17.440 --> 0:22:21.240 to go all Seinfeld. Now, both of these are examples 0:22:21.280 --> 0:22:24.920 of quote their reminder effect reminding you of the moral 0:22:25.000 --> 0:22:27.639 codes in place, that you're being watched, that you're being judged, 0:22:27.680 --> 0:22:30.520 and you should act accordingly. And that leads us to 0:22:30.600 --> 0:22:35.119 the work of C. Daniel Boston who has this this theory, 0:22:35.200 --> 0:22:38.800 this moral hypocrisy theory, which stems from a few studies 0:22:38.800 --> 0:22:42.080 that he conducted himself which used a mirror uh and 0:22:42.119 --> 0:22:45.679 also in one case used a coin, uh, testing just 0:22:46.040 --> 0:22:48.639 what happens when we're left alone to make this decisions 0:22:49.119 --> 0:22:51.000 in this case that the mirror playing the role of 0:22:51.080 --> 0:22:54.399 the of of of being watched, that the individual in 0:22:54.400 --> 0:22:56.400 the mirror is watching. It sets in these previous studies, 0:22:56.520 --> 0:22:58.520 and in the case of the coin in one of 0:22:58.520 --> 0:23:00.800 the studies is presented as an s and where if 0:23:00.840 --> 0:23:03.280 you don't want to actually make the the the a 0:23:03.400 --> 0:23:05.320 moral choice, you can flip the coin and let the 0:23:05.320 --> 0:23:08.439 coin to decide so best on in his in his 0:23:08.520 --> 0:23:12.680 moral hypocrisy theory, he argues that we don't have any 0:23:12.760 --> 0:23:16.520 kind of inherent morality that as with as with the 0:23:16.760 --> 0:23:20.359 ring of guys argument, We all possess a desire to 0:23:20.480 --> 0:23:23.600 appear moral the other to We all possess a desire 0:23:23.640 --> 0:23:26.960 to appear moral to others and to ourselves without having 0:23:27.000 --> 0:23:29.280 to bear the costs of that moral behavior when no 0:23:29.320 --> 0:23:31.760 one is watching. So that would be when you're wearing 0:23:31.760 --> 0:23:34.280 the ring of guys, when you're leaving comments in a 0:23:34.359 --> 0:23:37.040 YouTube thread, when you're writing on the bathroom wall. You 0:23:37.160 --> 0:23:40.359 name it. I mean there's it actually ties into to 0:23:40.520 --> 0:23:43.440 what some people refer to as the guys effect uh 0:23:43.480 --> 0:23:47.280 in in reference to internet trolls. Uh people leaving nasty 0:23:47.320 --> 0:23:50.280 comments or even making death threats and and other violent 0:23:50.320 --> 0:23:54.240 threats online. Um, there's no one there to judge the 0:23:54.280 --> 0:23:56.880 morality of their actions, and then therefore they give into 0:23:56.920 --> 0:23:59.800 their own boredom, their own need for attention, with their 0:24:00.119 --> 0:24:04.719 district back against some sort of perceived oppressor. So the 0:24:04.760 --> 0:24:07.200 idea is that, given the chance, we all slipped the 0:24:07.280 --> 0:24:10.200 ring on. But we prefer to see our actions as moral, 0:24:10.560 --> 0:24:13.600 regardless of whether or not they actually are. And this 0:24:13.640 --> 0:24:17.520 is where we get into moral rationalization. Okay, we we 0:24:17.640 --> 0:24:20.160 steal from the office supplies because we feel that we've 0:24:20.200 --> 0:24:22.679 earned them, or because the boss was mean to you, 0:24:22.760 --> 0:24:24.800 or because you had a bad day, or because you 0:24:24.840 --> 0:24:27.919 just need them more than someone else needs them. And 0:24:28.000 --> 0:24:32.760 so in Beston's studies, the coin again played the played 0:24:32.800 --> 0:24:35.399 the role of an agent of choice outside of ourselves, 0:24:35.400 --> 0:24:38.399 the cultural norms that you can fall back on. Someone say, oh, 0:24:38.400 --> 0:24:40.280 it's it's okay to act like it's okay to steal 0:24:40.280 --> 0:24:43.120 office supplies, and therefore I shall do it. And then 0:24:43.119 --> 0:24:45.159