WEBVTT - Is Web3 Really Going That Great?

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<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily Bloomberg I heard podcast,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm Stacy Marie Ishmael, Managing editor of Crypto for

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg News. It's Monday, October three. Perhaps you've heard of

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<v Speaker 1>Molly White. So one thing that I really care about

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<v Speaker 1>is taking information that's not always the easiest to find

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<v Speaker 1>and trying to make it more accessible to people. The

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<v Speaker 1>software engineer and crypto skeptic has been profiled in The

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<v Speaker 1>Washington Post, in Fast Company, and The Boston Globe. She

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<v Speaker 1>has more than eighty thousand followers on her personal Twitter

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<v Speaker 1>account and more than a hundred thousand on an account

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<v Speaker 1>called web three is Going Just Great, which is based

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<v Speaker 1>on her website of the same name. These are as

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<v Speaker 1>you might guess, a chronicle of all the ways at

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<v Speaker 1>web three is not going so great. Molly, delighted to

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<v Speaker 1>have you on the show. Thanks for having me. It's

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<v Speaker 1>my absolute pleasure. Why don't you tell our listeners a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit more about you. I'm a software engineer and

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<v Speaker 1>a researcher um and I've been focusing pretty heavily on

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<v Speaker 1>researching crypto, blockchains, web three everything related to that, and

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<v Speaker 1>I run the website web three is going just great

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<v Speaker 1>where I keep track of some of the hacks and

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<v Speaker 1>scams and other general disasters that have been happening in

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<v Speaker 1>the crypto space. In other words, Web three is not

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<v Speaker 1>going just great. It's a bit of a sarcastic title. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>what got you interested in becoming kind of the chronicler

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<v Speaker 1>of our time as it were, of these various as

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<v Speaker 1>you put it, hacks, scams, and disasters. I'm a bit

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<v Speaker 1>of a chronicler by nature. I think I have kind

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<v Speaker 1>of Wikipedia editor for you know, over a decade, and

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<v Speaker 1>that's just something that I've always been really passionate about.

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<v Speaker 1>But around the middle of last year or so, it

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<v Speaker 1>felt like crypto was really reaching a bit of a

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<v Speaker 1>fever pitch when it came to the marketing and the

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<v Speaker 1>hype and the social media coverage. It was, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>it was pretty extreme around everyone should be investing in crypto,

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<v Speaker 1>you should be putting your retirement money into it. You

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<v Speaker 1>could become a millionaire overnight, all these types of things,

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<v Speaker 1>and I felt like we weren't seeing as much of

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<v Speaker 1>the other side of things, where projects were getting hacked

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<v Speaker 1>for sometimes hundreds of millions of dollars, people were losing

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<v Speaker 1>their money because of individual hacks or because of you know,

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<v Speaker 1>not securing their crypto well enough. And there was sort

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<v Speaker 1>of a very serious, you know, predatory side of things

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<v Speaker 1>that I felt like wasn't getting enough coverage, and so

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I felt like I would do my part

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<v Speaker 1>to try to change that. Well, you've certainly redirected a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of the conversation in ways that are arguably more

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<v Speaker 1>constructive from a consumer protection standpoints then had necessarily been

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<v Speaker 1>the case before. But one of the things I'm sort

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<v Speaker 1>of most interested in, and we have a very nerdy audience,

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<v Speaker 1>so it's like, feel free to go deep into this.

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<v Speaker 1>When you call yourself a natural kind of chronicler, an

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<v Speaker 1>archivist as it were, how do you even keep track?

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<v Speaker 1>Because I say this as an editor whose literal job

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<v Speaker 1>is staying on top of, you know, the various things

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<v Speaker 1>in crypto and every morning and I'm I wake up

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm surprised by something like, what's your curatorial process?

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<v Speaker 1>How do you decide what things kind of rise to

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<v Speaker 1>the occasion of being worthy of inclusion? For you, it's

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<v Speaker 1>a pretty uh holistic process, I would say, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>it's kind of just based on vibes. Typically all include

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<v Speaker 1>things if there was, you know, a major monetary amount,

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<v Speaker 1>so anything over like a hundred thousand dollars they'll typically include.

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<v Speaker 1>But I also will try to include things that show that,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, sometimes the things that are going really wrong

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<v Speaker 1>are affecting individual people really badly. And so even if

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<v Speaker 1>a monetary amount might not be enormous compared to what

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<v Speaker 1>an institutional loss might be, it still feels useful to

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<v Speaker 1>describe that, you know, individual people are sometimes losing their

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<v Speaker 1>entire savings in crypto, you know, even if for an

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<v Speaker 1>institution it might not be that much money. As far

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<v Speaker 1>as how I find things, that's pretty all over the place.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a lot of I'm an RSS, you know lover,

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<v Speaker 1>so I have a pretty active RSS feed that I follow,

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<v Speaker 1>and then a lot of stuff comes through on Twitter.

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<v Speaker 1>But you know, one thing that's been great is as

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<v Speaker 1>the site has gotten a little bit bigger and there's

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<v Speaker 1>become more of a devoted readership, a lot of people

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<v Speaker 1>will just send me things, and that's really helpful because

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<v Speaker 1>you can never find everything yourself. That's true. Shout out

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<v Speaker 1>to RSS. I want to pick up on one thing

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<v Speaker 1>that you said, which I think distinguishes your approach from

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<v Speaker 1>that of others who are cropping up in this space,

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<v Speaker 1>and which is the allowance for the individual and the

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<v Speaker 1>highlighting of individual harms and not just institutional ones. I

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<v Speaker 1>think one of your more recent and frankly harrowing threads

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<v Speaker 1>was around the individual letters sent by creditors who had

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<v Speaker 1>lost everything in a big kind of crypto bankruptcy sort

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<v Speaker 1>of fall out. Can you talk a little bit more

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<v Speaker 1>about what motivated you to do that and if there's

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<v Speaker 1>anything that you learned, you know, as you undertook that project. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, so, one thing that I really care about

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<v Speaker 1>is taking information that's not always the easiest to find

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<v Speaker 1>and trying to make it more accessible to people. And

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<v Speaker 1>that's really what I was trying to do when I

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<v Speaker 1>highlighted some of the excerpt from the letters that were

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<v Speaker 1>being sent to the judge in the Celsius and the

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<v Speaker 1>Voyage of bankruptcy cases, because you know they're online, but

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<v Speaker 1>they're in a very obscure place there in these pdf files.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, they're very long and it's a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>reading to do, so I was just trying to sort

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<v Speaker 1>of distill down some of the examples of how people

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<v Speaker 1>were really materially harmed in those particular their cases. And

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<v Speaker 1>you know, in a lot of cases, it wasn't individuals

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<v Speaker 1>losing millions of dollars, but it was people losing substantial

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<v Speaker 1>amounts of their savings. You know, some of them were retirees,

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<v Speaker 1>some of them had been working for decades and just

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<v Speaker 1>scraping together what extra money they could. You know, some

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<v Speaker 1>of it was earmarked for their children's education. And it

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<v Speaker 1>was really I think illustrative of how sometimes people who

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<v Speaker 1>are getting into crypto are not necessarily what people picture.

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<v Speaker 1>A lot of the time. You know, people will often

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<v Speaker 1>picture young, usually male people who have a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>of extra money that they want to just wildly gamble

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<v Speaker 1>away on crypto, and they're taking these moon shots and

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<v Speaker 1>you know, they might lose it all, they might become rich,

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<v Speaker 1>but you know, ultimately it's not a big deal whatever

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<v Speaker 1>happens to that money. But in this case, that was

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<v Speaker 1>a market difference from what we were seeing in the letters,

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<v Speaker 1>which was people who really thought that this was the

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<v Speaker 1>savings account, that they could actually make interest rates that

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<v Speaker 1>they weren't able to find in the traditional financial market,

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<v Speaker 1>and who were really relying on this money. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>some people were sending letters about how they couldn't pay

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<v Speaker 1>medical bills. They couldn't you know, they were risks, they

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<v Speaker 1>were at risk of losing their homes because of this bankruptcy,

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<v Speaker 1>and so, you know, I just felt really important to

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<v Speaker 1>make sure that people understood that, you know, there's actually

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<v Speaker 1>real people being harmed out here. It's not just the

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<v Speaker 1>crypto bro moonshot folks who it's like, oh, well, they

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<v Speaker 1>lost their gambling money. I'd like to read one of

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<v Speaker 1>the ones that you highlighted because I book Market, because

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<v Speaker 1>I think it it really described the disconnect in what

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<v Speaker 1>you're describing in terms of you know, people think it's

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<v Speaker 1>like dudes with laser eyes. But here's an example of

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<v Speaker 1>the reality. This was on. You posted this on the

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<v Speaker 1>twenty one of July. I'm a Celsius customer with a

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<v Speaker 1>little more than fifteen thousand dollars worth of deposits that

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<v Speaker 1>are locked up in Celsius. Fifteen thousand dollars may not

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<v Speaker 1>mean a lot to some people, but it is about

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<v Speaker 1>six of my life savings. Losing all my savings will

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<v Speaker 1>have irreparable consequences on the well being of myself and

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<v Speaker 1>my family. I'm ashamed, humiliated, and quite frankly disgusted that

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<v Speaker 1>I put all my trust into this company. I'll be

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<v Speaker 1>spending years trying to make back the money I lost.

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<v Speaker 1>That was one of of these kinds of letters. And

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<v Speaker 1>how are you finding that people are responding to this

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<v Speaker 1>work that you're doing, Because, as you said, you sort

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<v Speaker 1>of started as a countervailing wind right, everything was going

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<v Speaker 1>up in the markets at that time. You know, like

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<v Speaker 1>nobody really wanted to hear from somebody being like, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>not sure if this is all such a good idea.

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<v Speaker 1>I think even in you know, a bearer market, a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of people don't really want to hear what I

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<v Speaker 1>have to say. Um, you know, I think with crypto,

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<v Speaker 1>there's just an overwhelming incentive to be really positive about

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<v Speaker 1>crypto at all costs because so much of crypto it's

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<v Speaker 1>value is based on the belief that the token or

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<v Speaker 1>the n f T or whatever the asset might be,

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<v Speaker 1>will go up in price, and so anyone questioning it

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<v Speaker 1>or criticizing it, you know, is presenting a risk to

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<v Speaker 1>the actual value of the asset. And so even you know,

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<v Speaker 1>when things are going pretty poorly overall in the market,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, individuals really want to keep that hope alive.

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<v Speaker 1>I think, but you know, I think there has been

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<v Speaker 1>more openness to hear the critical perspectives, as you know,

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<v Speaker 1>people have seen that things have gone poorly overall, as

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<v Speaker 1>some skeptics have been predicting. You know, I think that

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<v Speaker 1>it's really easy to brush off critics when you're seeing

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<v Speaker 1>tokens double in price overnight and you know the lines

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<v Speaker 1>are going up. But as we see these collapses, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>of these different crypto projects that were all sort of

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<v Speaker 1>dominoes knocking each other over in this you know, spring

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<v Speaker 1>and summer, I think people have realized that there really

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<v Speaker 1>are serious issues with the industry as a whole, and

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<v Speaker 1>sut the media and the general public have been a

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<v Speaker 1>little more receptive to those viewpoints. Coming up, you'll hear

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<v Speaker 1>more from Molly Whites around what ordinary people need to

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<v Speaker 1>understand about crypto. You've spoken in the past about the

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<v Speaker 1>fact that you have experienced online harassment, you know, in

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<v Speaker 1>kind of various iterations of in the life of a person,

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<v Speaker 1>particularly a woman who has been very visible and very

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<v Speaker 1>online for a long time. I can share because I

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<v Speaker 1>have shared here before that you know I have on

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<v Speaker 1>my team. We will have a report to publish a

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<v Speaker 1>story and then in their d MS or their emails

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<v Speaker 1>or you know, kind of like directly and aggressively. Folks

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<v Speaker 1>will be like, why are you everything from very mild?

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<v Speaker 1>Or you must be a paid shill who is trying

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<v Speaker 1>to you know food bitcoin food being a phrase used

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<v Speaker 1>in crypto world to mean fair uncertainty and doubt um

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<v Speaker 1>or you know, kind of to the extremes of threats

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, other types of things for you know,

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<v Speaker 1>what I would consider as an editor to be like

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<v Speaker 1>a pretty straightforward story about a market movement or or

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<v Speaker 1>or a company doing something. Is there anything in your

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<v Speaker 1>experience of having navigated this world that you think leads

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<v Speaker 1>to this heightening of both emotions and a kind of

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<v Speaker 1>like violent nihilism as it were in some cases. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean I think it's related to what I alluded

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<v Speaker 1>to before, which is the financial incentive to be positive

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<v Speaker 1>to you know, promote the idea that the token prices

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<v Speaker 1>or the market as a whole are going to go up.

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<v Speaker 1>But I think there's also a strong ideological component to

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<v Speaker 1>it as well, where people really see crypto as the

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<v Speaker 1>solution to a lot of serious problems, and when someone

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<v Speaker 1>is speaking against you know, the potential of crypto, they

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<v Speaker 1>see that as someone saying, you know, I don't want

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<v Speaker 1>to solve those problems, or you know, you are a

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<v Speaker 1>bad person for trying to solve those problems, which I

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<v Speaker 1>think it's really not the message that a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>people are trying to get across, but it's become twisted,

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<v Speaker 1>I think in the eyes of a lot of people.

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<v Speaker 1>But yeah, I think, you know, generally speaking, when you

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<v Speaker 1>threatened someone's bottom line, you know, when when they have

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of investment into you a you know, a

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<v Speaker 1>specific asset and you do something that might cause that

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<v Speaker 1>asset price to change, even if it is fairly unbiased

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<v Speaker 1>reporting or just you know, just describing what is happening

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<v Speaker 1>in the real world, people will respond very, very aggressively

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<v Speaker 1>to that. And I think, you know, the culture in

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<v Speaker 1>crypto has really contributed to that, where people are somewhat

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<v Speaker 1>encouraged to do that and it becomes you know, insular

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<v Speaker 1>movement where that behavior is just completely normalized. Is there

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<v Speaker 1>anything in addition to that financial incentive that you find

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<v Speaker 1>either unusual or distinct about how some of this takes place.

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<v Speaker 1>I think the level that it happens in crypto is unusual.

0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:36.360
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I've definitely experienced harassment because of my involvement

0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:40.800
<v Speaker 1>with Wikipedia, my coverage of you know, right wing political

0:13:40.840 --> 0:13:44.560
<v Speaker 1>movements in the US, and it's definitely, you know, pretty

0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:48.200
<v Speaker 1>serious in that particular group as well. But with crypto,

0:13:48.360 --> 0:13:52.280
<v Speaker 1>it's a very it's very strange. I think the degree

0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:54.760
<v Speaker 1>to which it's normalized and I don't know if it

0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:57.319
<v Speaker 1>has to do with the amount of people who are

0:13:57.360 --> 0:14:00.760
<v Speaker 1>really anonymous in crypto and so they feel you know,

0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:05.720
<v Speaker 1>protected in saying some really heinous things, but the level

0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:10.760
<v Speaker 1>to which the toxicity has really emerged from crypto is

0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:13.880
<v Speaker 1>pretty unusual, and I think that has been recognized sort

0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:16.760
<v Speaker 1>of in the main stream, where people have this view

0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:19.920
<v Speaker 1>of you know, crypto bros who are you know, have

0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:22.400
<v Speaker 1>the laser eyes and it's sort of everyone. I think

0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:26.320
<v Speaker 1>there's this sort of perception of crypto people as very

0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:30.240
<v Speaker 1>intense and often aggressive, and I guess I would say

0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:35.720
<v Speaker 1>it's not unearned, right. I want to go back to something,

0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:37.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, a couple of months ago, when you were

0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:41.240
<v Speaker 1>invited to give a statement to the Financial Stability Oversight

0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:44.360
<v Speaker 1>Counsole and regulating to just all assets, you talked about

0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:48.240
<v Speaker 1>the trade offs of anonymity and pseudonymity, And one of

0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:50.760
<v Speaker 1>the things that you said is it's actually really easy

0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:53.960
<v Speaker 1>for people who think their transactions or privates or that

0:14:54.000 --> 0:15:00.080
<v Speaker 1>their identities are obscured to inadvertently out themselves because the

0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:02.880
<v Speaker 1>the level of technical proficiency that you have to actually

0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:08.080
<v Speaker 1>be secret the whole time is relatively high. Can you

0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:11.760
<v Speaker 1>say a little bit more about why highlighting those kinds

0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:13.640
<v Speaker 1>of things for what you called, you know, the quote

0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:17.200
<v Speaker 1>unquote average user is important to you. Yeah, I mean

0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:22.520
<v Speaker 1>I think crypto has, you know, historically been something that's

0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:25.600
<v Speaker 1>been used by people who are very technically proficient and

0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:30.080
<v Speaker 1>who are capable of doing things like self custodying and

0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:33.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, keeping track of all the different wallet addresses

0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:37.440
<v Speaker 1>and secret keys and all these different things. But you know,

0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:39.920
<v Speaker 1>in the past couple of years, we've seen these attempts

0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:42.760
<v Speaker 1>to mainstream crypto and to make it something that you know,

0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:45.200
<v Speaker 1>everyone's got an app on their phone and their trading

0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:48.520
<v Speaker 1>crypto day to day and everyone should be putting money

0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:51.920
<v Speaker 1>into it. To some extent, I don't think that it

0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:55.640
<v Speaker 1>is you know, achievable for average people to be using

0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:58.600
<v Speaker 1>crypto in the way that people say that you should be.

0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:01.400
<v Speaker 1>So you know, someone might be able to download an

0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:04.440
<v Speaker 1>app and trade some crypto, but you know, not your keys,

0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:06.520
<v Speaker 1>not your coins. You know, you're supposed to be keeping

0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:08.760
<v Speaker 1>in it in a wallet yourself, maybe a hardware wallet,

0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:11.560
<v Speaker 1>something like that. And when you start to actually look

0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:13.760
<v Speaker 1>into what it takes for someone to do that, it's

0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:16.800
<v Speaker 1>not something that you know, your average person who's not

0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:20.360
<v Speaker 1>a software person, they're not online all the time, can

0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:23.800
<v Speaker 1>really do. And so I think it's alarming that people

0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:27.640
<v Speaker 1>are pushing the idea that crypto is something that you know,

0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:30.960
<v Speaker 1>should become the backbone of a financial system that is

0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:35.000
<v Speaker 1>widely used in society, when that's not achievable at the

0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:41.200
<v Speaker 1>current moment, and they're enormous hurdles to it becoming achievable. Well, first,

0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:43.840
<v Speaker 1>I'll say I find it interesting how many of the

0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:47.400
<v Speaker 1>folks who have spent so much time in and around

0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:51.680
<v Speaker 1>software are some of the biggest skeptics of this message

0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:53.800
<v Speaker 1>that like anyone can do it's totally fine, just like

0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:56.560
<v Speaker 1>slap our user into face one and it's great. But

0:16:56.680 --> 0:17:01.400
<v Speaker 1>if you were asked the question, so someone who is

0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:03.960
<v Speaker 1>not the most tech savvy, but you know, like reasonably

0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:06.520
<v Speaker 1>away of what's going on, at a minimum, understands two

0:17:06.560 --> 0:17:10.040
<v Speaker 1>factor authentication, and they insist, absolutely insist, that they want

0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:12.479
<v Speaker 1>to get involved in crypto. And you could give them

0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:15.919
<v Speaker 1>one piece of caution or advice, what would that be.

0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:20.640
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's pretty cliche, but don't invest more than

0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:23.560
<v Speaker 1>you can afford to lose. There is no predicting what's

0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:26.199
<v Speaker 1>going to happen in the crypto markets, and you should

0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:29.520
<v Speaker 1>really assume that anything you put in could be worth

0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:34.680
<v Speaker 1>zero tomorrow. And so, you know, it's really tempting, especially

0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:37.119
<v Speaker 1>when the line is going up and people are, you know,

0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:40.480
<v Speaker 1>advertising all these returns that they're making, to put a

0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:42.560
<v Speaker 1>lot of money into it on the hopes that, you know,

0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:45.600
<v Speaker 1>you might be one of those people who triples their money.

0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:48.840
<v Speaker 1>But you know, I've seen so many times that it

0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:51.480
<v Speaker 1>goes in the other direction too, and you know, people

0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:56.520
<v Speaker 1>over expose themselves. Well, I'll share, just as a closing remark,

0:17:56.560 --> 0:18:00.280
<v Speaker 1>a quote that you highlighted on your blog from you know,

0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:04.080
<v Speaker 1>Michael Sailor, who very famously said, you know, mortgage your

0:18:04.080 --> 0:18:07.639
<v Speaker 1>house on by bitcoin, which is the the exact opposite

0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:13.520
<v Speaker 1>of the kind of prudence and caution that you are recommending. Well,

0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:15.399
<v Speaker 1>thank you so much for taking the time to be

0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:17.880
<v Speaker 1>on the podcast. It has been an absolute pleasure and

0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:20.320
<v Speaker 1>you know, hope to have you back again. Thanks for

0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:24.480
<v Speaker 1>having me. You can find her work, of course, on Twitter.

0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:31.600
<v Speaker 1>On the next episode of Bloomberg Crypto. When crypto prices

0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:34.720
<v Speaker 1>were high, you know, around this time last year, a

0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:38.119
<v Speaker 1>certain class of crypto officianados took full advantage of the

0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:41.800
<v Speaker 1>digital nomad lifestyle. They showed up in places like Portugal

0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:45.280
<v Speaker 1>and Miami and San Juan, leaving behind their lives in

0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:48.840
<v Speaker 1>New York and London. How's that going now, you ask, Well,

0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:51.399
<v Speaker 1>let's just say there's less sun see and sun in

0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:57.879
<v Speaker 1>their lives these days. This is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily

0:18:57.920 --> 0:19:01.320
<v Speaker 1>podcast from Bloomberg and I Heart Radio. For more shows

0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:03.680
<v Speaker 1>from I Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app,

0:19:03.920 --> 0:19:08.040
<v Speaker 1>Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Send us

0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:10.920
<v Speaker 1>your comments, questions or suggestions for the show to Crypto

0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:14.080
<v Speaker 1>at Bloomberg dot net or find us on Twitter. We're

0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:20.200
<v Speaker 1>at Crypto. The supervising producer of Bloomberg Crypto is Vicky Verglina.

0:19:20.600 --> 0:19:24.560
<v Speaker 1>Our senior producer is Janet Babin. Our producer is Sharon Barriro.

0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:29.200
<v Speaker 1>Associate producer is Ty Butler. Desta wonder At is our engineer.

0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:36.119
<v Speaker 1>Original music by Leo Sidran. I'm Stacy Mariachmal. We'll be

0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:36.679
<v Speaker 1>back tomorrow.