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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds, and Donald Trump says, I'm really good

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Speaker 1: at this stuff. Period. Your countries are going to hell.

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Speaker 1: We have such a great show for you today the

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Speaker 1: Bulwark Zone. Tim Miller stops by to talk about Trump's

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Speaker 1: disasters speech at the UN Then we'll talk to Abortion

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Speaker 1: every Days Jessica Valenti about how some Dems are floating

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Speaker 1: running pro life candidates. But first the news Somalia.

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Speaker 2: Last night we got news that the Supreme Court is

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Speaker 2: gonna let Trump fire the head of the FTC and.

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Speaker 1: Oh boy, yeah, so look here it is the Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court likes to take things on the shadow docket and

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Speaker 1: let Trump get away with murder. Basically, by the way,

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Speaker 1: we know where this is going, right. He wants to

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Speaker 1: fire people in the fand he wants to fire Lisa Cook.

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Speaker 1: His dream is to fire Jerome Pale. So we see

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Speaker 1: where this is going. And again, this is like one

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Speaker 1: of these things I want to talk about because I

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Speaker 1: think the Supreme Court really does think, or at least

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Speaker 1: enough of them think that they can just sort of

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Speaker 1: go along to get along. But with every ruling like this,

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Speaker 1: what they're doing is they are giving Trump more permission

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Speaker 1: to do more. And I don't think they realize that

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Speaker 1: eventually they're going to come crashing into Trump's desire for autocracy,

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Speaker 1: which is already we're already well in our way there.

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Speaker 1: And when that happens, they're going to eventually have to

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Speaker 1: stand up to him, and he's going to be so furious,

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Speaker 1: so he's going to fire the FTC. Rebecca Slaughter. But

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Speaker 1: what's eventually going to happen here is that Trump is

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Speaker 1: going to try to FIRELUSA Cook and then eventually, you know,

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Speaker 1: he's trying to wrestle control of the FAT something that

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Speaker 1: he is not constitutionally allowed to do, something that is

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Speaker 1: not how any of this is supposed to work. Something

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Speaker 1: that's bad for the economy and bad for all of us.

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Speaker 1: And is this sort of Trump try to make America

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Speaker 1: look like Venezuela. But eventually he's going to come crashing

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Speaker 1: into the Supreme Court. And again the question will be

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Speaker 1: will they roll over like Congress has and give up

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Speaker 1: all their autonomy or will they push back? And the

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Speaker 1: answers we don't know yet.

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Speaker 3: Yep.

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Speaker 2: So Molly we've gotten progress in our Democratic leaders. There's

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Speaker 2: no longer strongly worded letters the requesting meetings, and Trump

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Speaker 2: is turning them down.

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Speaker 1: You know, even very salty about this.

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Speaker 3: I find it reprehensible.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, in this podcast we talked to Tim Miller, and

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Speaker 1: they're not great options here. Democrats are not in the majority.

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Speaker 1: They're in the minority. They wanted to have a shutdown

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Speaker 1: meeting with Trump like the one that happened in twenty

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Speaker 1: eighteen with Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer that created like

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Speaker 1: a million memes of her with the glasses those salad

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Speaker 1: days of when things were much less shitty. I don't

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Speaker 1: know what the answers here are. They really wanted a meeting.

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Speaker 1: Trump said he was going to do a meeting, then

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Speaker 1: he realized that it opened him up for criticism, so

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Speaker 1: he canceled it. Or maybe who knows He said the

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Speaker 1: truth was, after reviewing the details of the unseious and

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Speaker 1: ridiculous demands being made by the minority radical left Democrats

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Speaker 1: in return for their votes to keep our thriving country open,

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Speaker 1: I've decided that no meeting with their congressional leaders could

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Speaker 1: possibly be productive. So, I mean, he certainly saw that

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Speaker 1: he could lose on this and decided not to do it.

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Speaker 1: There are not great options here. Democrats are fighting for

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Speaker 1: this healthcare premium money, so Obamacare will go up twenty

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Speaker 1: percent if the premiums are funded. Republicans want the premiums

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Speaker 1: to be unfunded because they don't want to pay for it,

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Speaker 1: and because also they want Obamacare to fail, just like

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Speaker 1: they want the government to fail. I mean, that's the

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Speaker 1: secret of Project twenty twenty five when we did that

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Speaker 1: whole documentary on it, was what we saw was that

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Speaker 1: it's basically a war against government, good government, wanting government

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Speaker 1: to get small and drafted in a baths up. Republicans

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Speaker 1: want Obamacare to fail. Democrats want to try to keep

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Speaker 1: the premiums lower in order to keep more people on it.

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Speaker 1: I think like there's an acceleration is case for this,

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Speaker 1: which is like one of the big things Democrats did

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Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen was they save voters from themselves. They said,

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Speaker 1: you know, we're not going to let this happen. We're

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Speaker 1: not going to let them repeal Obamacare. We're not going

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Speaker 1: to let this happen because you will be better off

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Speaker 1: if we save it for you. But voters voted for

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Speaker 1: Trump again, so obviously, and you know, one of the

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Speaker 1: things that we would hear in the twenty four psycho

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Speaker 1: was always, well, he didn't do it last time, so

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Speaker 1: he's not going to do it this time. And they

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Speaker 1: didn't understand the level of like blood, sweat and tears

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Speaker 1: that came from Democrats who were able to prevent him

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Speaker 1: from doing some of his wish list items. So I

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Speaker 1: am always thinking, like just part of me thinks they

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Speaker 1: should just let it happen. Part of me thinks they

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Speaker 1: should try to ask for subpoena power so that they

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Speaker 1: could have some hearings on what's happening, because at least

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Speaker 1: then there's some ability to shine the light on this.

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Speaker 1: You know, right now they don't have power subpoena, they

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Speaker 1: can't call hearings, they can't you know, they have everything

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Speaker 1: has to be bipartisan or Republicans have to do it.

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Speaker 1: And so I think that that might be the smarter play.

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Speaker 1: But they're going to try, but they're not. It's not

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Speaker 1: going to work, right. The CR is not going to

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Speaker 1: They're not going to be able to get all this

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Speaker 1: money into the CR. And so the question is will

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Speaker 1: they shut down the government or not, And you have

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Speaker 1: to think like someone like Russ Vought wants the government

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Speaker 1: shut down. So I don't know, there aren't easy answers here,

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Speaker 1: and I think Tim is right.

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Speaker 3: I think that they should be coming up the works more.

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Speaker 1: But I agree, I mean, they should be coming up

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Speaker 1: the works more, and they should be just screaming from

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Speaker 1: the rooftops more.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The key is is you make people see how unpopular

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Speaker 2: all these policies are and get more visibility and drive

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Speaker 2: down their approval and make them scared.

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Speaker 3: Because we see what happened in Chicago.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Molly, we had big news, you know, Charlie Kirk's

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Speaker 2: memorial service. In the middle of it, Trump's making a

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Speaker 2: speech autism tomorrow.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: Enough, we found out many things that are not true.

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Speaker 2: Cuba has virtually no autism. Tail and all is the

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Speaker 2: cause of autism. I hope you weren't just pounding that

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Speaker 2: daily while you were pregnant, because if so, you're dale

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Speaker 2: pariah of a mother.

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Speaker 1: Jessica Valenti talks about this. We talk about this sort

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Speaker 1: of the misogyny, the anti woman stuff going on in

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Speaker 1: this administration. But part of the idea of blaming mothers

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Speaker 1: for taking talent on and somehow til and all might

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Speaker 1: cause autism. By the way, first of all, doesn't cause autism.

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Speaker 1: Second of all, a lot of the Johnson and Johnson

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Speaker 1: family are big Trump donors, So that is a delightful

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Speaker 1: a little bit of you know, turns out if even

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Speaker 1: if you give him tons of money, he will still

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Speaker 1: lie about your product. But more importantly, Donald Trump, he

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Speaker 1: went crazy on health. I think that's the way he said.

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Speaker 1: RFK would go crazy on health. And he's sort of

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Speaker 1: ad libbed. He's great when he ad libs on health

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Speaker 1: because he really is like, let the light in the body,

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Speaker 1: my man is the doctor, is what I'm trying to say.

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Speaker 2: Do you not just find this to be the usual

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Speaker 2: case of that. A lot of Trump's second term is

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Speaker 2: just a lot of him being like, too long, didn't

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Speaker 2: read whatever that guy said.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, get me to the next event.

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Speaker 1: Yeah no, Now I would love you to play the

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Speaker 1: put too much fluids in the body, too many fluids

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Speaker 1: in the babies, too many fluids. Anyway, The point is

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Speaker 1: a lot of crazy shit was said, but perhaps the craziest,

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Speaker 1: according to Jesse Cannon and Me Too, Trump says that

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Speaker 1: Cuba has virtually no autism. I know you're going to

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Speaker 1: be shocked to hear this, but Cuba does in fact

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Speaker 1: have autism. I don't even understand why he even went

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Speaker 1: down this path. I'm stupid, but there is in fact

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Speaker 1: autism in Cuba. You will be shocked to know. And

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Speaker 1: it's because they all take talent all there. No, just kidding,

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Speaker 1: that's not why.

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Speaker 4: No.

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Speaker 2: I like the analysis that the paper that RFK is

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Speaker 2: citing reads like the top was written by him at

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Speaker 2: the bottom his societ just being like, oh god, fuck

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Speaker 2: my life.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, everything Trump touches dies. Really, we're seeing that in

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Speaker 1: action here. But I mean, the good news about RFK

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Speaker 1: and Trump's vaccine announcement is that it was so bad

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Speaker 1: that even Trump's people are like, you know, and that

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Speaker 1: is I mean, that is not nothing. Because we have

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Speaker 1: seen Trump's people defend a lot of crazy stuff, but

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Speaker 1: even they are not able to defend this. So that's something.

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Speaker 2: Samalia the Yale School of Management, which is not known

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Speaker 2: for the woke, they've been coming out with a lot

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Speaker 2: of things about how business feels about Trump and their

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Speaker 2: way to survey, most CEOs say Trump policy has harmed

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Speaker 2: their business.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm shocked to hear that. I am just shocked

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Speaker 1: to hear that the anti business policy is harming their business.

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Speaker 1: This is like this piece we saw it in the

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Speaker 1: Wall Stroop Journal. Basically, these ceo seventy CEOs who attended

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Speaker 1: the CEO Caucus convened by the woke liberals at the

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Speaker 1: Yale School of Management, they were surveyed and they said,

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Speaker 1: among the CEOs, and these are people like the head

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Speaker 1: of Pfizer, the head of Motorola, the head of gm SO,

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Speaker 1: seventy one percent of CEOs said that the tariffs were

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Speaker 1: harmful to their businesses. Seventy four said the courts were

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Speaker 1: correct to fight the tariffs illegal eighty percent so the

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Speaker 1: president was not acting in the country's best interest by

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Speaker 1: pressuring FED chair Jerome pal to cut rates. Seventy six

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Speaker 1: percent said that Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Junior is

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Speaker 1: putting us public health at risk. And that was even

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Speaker 1: before the HB one visas, so I think, which cost

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Speaker 1: one hundred thousand dollars a week or maybe a year,

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Speaker 1: or maybe a month or maybe whatever. Because who had

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Speaker 1: time to figure this out before they made the presidential proclamation?

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Speaker 4: Not I.

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Speaker 1: Tim Miller is the host of the bow Work Daily Podcast.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Fast Politics, Tim Miller.

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Speaker 5: Hey, momly Jon Fast I'm back Fast Politics. I think

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Speaker 5: I've lost my gold jacket. You know, for a while there,

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Speaker 5: I was the top guest.

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Speaker 1: Well, you're busy, You're a little busy.

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Speaker 5: You know what happened.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's a lot going on. Yeah, and things

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Speaker 1: are going great.

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Speaker 5: Oh yeah, firing on all cylinders in the USA.

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Speaker 1: You know, Trump at the UN just did great jobs.

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Speaker 5: Thing. I mean, like the substance of his policy is

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Speaker 5: not great, and I oppose most of it, not the

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Speaker 5: foreign policies. Lost my expertise, the style, the politics of

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Speaker 5: like what he's doing. And he goes up there and

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Speaker 5: talks about how well respected he is now and how

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Speaker 5: all the all the countries respect him. If you were

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Speaker 5: extremely respected, is that something that you'd say in front

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Speaker 5: of a room of people, like usually someone like Tom Hanks, Tom,

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Speaker 5: I don't know why to Tom's come to mind when

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Speaker 5: I think about respected people, Tom broke Off, Morgan Freeman.

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Speaker 5: They don't don't have to go in a room and say,

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Speaker 5: Matteline Albright, I am so respected in the room. It's

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Speaker 5: just kind of like people know it, right, you know,

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Speaker 5: But anyway, you know, he's doing that whole thing. He's

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Speaker 5: lecturing Europe about their free speech laws and about how

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Speaker 5: their heritage.

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Speaker 1: Is Katie Vance play right.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean the whole thing is just really and

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Speaker 5: how do you sit through it if you're one of

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Speaker 5: these other countries? I guess that's why I wonder.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that I think is a hallmark

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Speaker 1: of trump Ism. And I'm curious if you think this

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Speaker 1: is like the quest to solve problems that never existed

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Speaker 1: and to.

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Speaker 5: Create problems and then solve them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so I feel like the UN has a smattering

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Speaker 1: of Trump doing that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. I mean he has this list of wars that

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Speaker 5: he thinks he solved, for example, and a lot of

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Speaker 5: those were real problems, but it's like.

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Speaker 1: Some of them are wrong.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, It's like do the people even know that he

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Speaker 5: had solved, you know? And then he lists him twice

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Speaker 5: and he mixes up which countries are involved in which conflict,

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Speaker 5: and it's all like, okay, well, you actually there were

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Speaker 5: two pretty not to undermine the Armenia Iserbaischan conflicts, but

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Speaker 5: like there are two really serious, major conflicts that that

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Speaker 5: he said that he was going to resolve very quickly Russia, Ukraine,

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Speaker 5: in Israel and Kaza, both of them are worse than

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Speaker 5: when he got in. You added a kind of a

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Speaker 5: quasi hot war with Venezuela in our own atmosphere. Yes,

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Speaker 5: and so it's kind of like you don't really get

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Speaker 5: credit for the dwindling tensions between Egypt and Ethiopia, like

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Speaker 5: when you're starting a you're starting a war in the Caribbean,

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Speaker 5: and you know, enabling Russia to continued to assault on Ukraine.

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Speaker 1: You know, are you surprised that Republicans aren't pushing back

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Speaker 1: more on the blowing up fishing boats?

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Speaker 5: No, I'm not. I mean you get Rand. Do you

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Speaker 5: get the civil libertarians and civil libertarians out there?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 5: I actually thought it was notewere it Rand, Let's say

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Speaker 5: a week or two ago, now I don't know, you know,

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Speaker 5: times a flat circle. But he was on Fox, you know,

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Speaker 5: and then all the blow dried hair guys start to

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Speaker 5: pun together. Is either Will Kine or Jesse Waters, I

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Speaker 5: forget one.

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Speaker 4: Basically the same.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and I thought it was actually good that Rand

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Speaker 5: was on Fox, like making a pretty coherent and cogent

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Speaker 5: argument for why we don't want to just have the

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Speaker 5: government start bombing random boats in the Caribbean. And how

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Speaker 5: you know, somebody that was a small government conservative might

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Speaker 5: be concerned about that kind of power if it gets

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Speaker 5: into the wrong hands. And so it was good that

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Speaker 5: he was out there doing that. But like, no, these guys,

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Speaker 5: the only fight they've really picked has been on the

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Speaker 5: free speech stuff, right. I mean, like BONDI did have

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Speaker 5: to back down. Cruz and several others are out there

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Speaker 5: on the on the Brendan Carr thing, which is good,

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Speaker 5: which I appreciate. There's some reasons for that, some of

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Speaker 5: them political, some of them genuine policy disagreements. But like,

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Speaker 5: besides that, like they're not saying anything. And even my

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Speaker 5: Senator Bill Cassidy was on Twitter like yesterday talking to

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Speaker 5: RFK about how he appreciates that he's reviewing the autism

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Speaker 5: research and applauds him for it. I'm like, you applaud

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Speaker 5: him for this, like you're a doctor, you know better.

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Speaker 5: So anyway, I know, I don't have any help for

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Speaker 5: these guys, really, and I just take pleasant surprises when

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Speaker 5: I can get them.

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Speaker 1: I do think when it comes to Ted Cruz having

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Speaker 1: a podcasting senator, right.

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Speaker 5: Like, it goes against interest as a podcaster. He doesn't

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Speaker 5: want anybody. I think he identifies as much as a

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Speaker 5: competitor of ours and as he does as a competitor

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Speaker 5: of like Sheldon Whitehouse, because I really think he likes

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Speaker 5: being a podcaster. So yeah, I think there's something to

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Speaker 5: that for sure. I also think that like their identity

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Speaker 5: is really wrapped up in being a don't tread on

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Speaker 5: me free speech thing and the way that like so

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Speaker 5: Trump's other abuses obviously biden to them, they would oppose them.

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Speaker 5: They're they're opposed to them in academic sense, you know,

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Speaker 5: at the Department of Justice, oh, you know, going after

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Speaker 5: foes or I we go down the whole list. But

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Speaker 5: like the free speech thing, I do think a lot

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Speaker 5: of these guys like feel is very central to their identity,

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Speaker 5: and I think that's part of the reason why they've

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Speaker 5: pushed back. And another part is that like Pam Bondy

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Speaker 5: and Brendan Carr, that's to see that Will Twarp have

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Speaker 5: been so like hackish about all this that like it

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Speaker 5: gives them an easy way to like distance without really

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Speaker 5: distancing from Trump. You know, they can be like Pam

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Speaker 5: BONDI doesn't you know that Blonde doesn't know it hates

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Speaker 5: speeches and you know, brending cars, you know. So that

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Speaker 5: so there are some situational reasons, but I'll take it.

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Speaker 1: I guess it is interesting though, when you're talking about

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Speaker 1: these libertarians, because like one of the very few voices

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Speaker 1: of descent in the House of Representatives is Thomas mass.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, everyone's all. I got to hand it

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Speaker 5: to the Libertarians, like at least they are you know,

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Speaker 5: at least they have a big Labaskan line. At least

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Speaker 5: they have an ethos, yeah, you know, And so I

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Speaker 5: do think there's that part of it is I think

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Speaker 5: that they are have been used to opposing the party

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Speaker 5: leadership right and in times on things that maybe wouldn't

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Speaker 5: necessarily align with the left. Right, Like there were times

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Speaker 5: when they opposed the party leadership on like too much

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Speaker 5: spending right or something right, And so they got used

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Speaker 5: to opposing party leadership and and they're a little more

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Speaker 5: comfortable with it than some of the more rank and

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Speaker 5: file Republicans. The crazy thing as you just like list

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Speaker 5: through all of the just total abuses of the constitution,

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Speaker 5: just plain stupid policy decisions, harmful to MAGA, the mega

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Speaker 5: based decisions that they've made, and it's just like the

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Speaker 5: fact that we can name these guys that have spoken up,

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Speaker 5: and it's a big difference in seventeen and like I

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Speaker 5: was on you know, I was, well, I guess this

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Speaker 5: podcast hadn't started in twenty seventeen, But if we had

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Speaker 5: an imaginary version of this podcast in twenty seventeen, I

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Speaker 5: would have been on there then, also complaining that more

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Speaker 5: Republicans weren't speaking up. But then they were kind of

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Speaker 5: a lot, but comparison, right, like there weren't enough for

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Speaker 5: my tastes, you know. But and even the Speaker of

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Speaker 5: the House at times, Paul Ryan, you know, in seventeen

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Speaker 5: and eighteen, no model of courage. Don't want to build

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Speaker 5: hm a statue, but like he was, he was checking

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Speaker 5: Trump on various things. Again, like not as much as

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Speaker 5: we would have wanted. It's totally different. Like they're like

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Speaker 5: the party has totally you know, bought a full subsidiary

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Speaker 5: of the Trump Inc.

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Speaker 1: Tell me if you think I'm crazy here, because I

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Speaker 1: think one of my many bad qualities is that I'm

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Speaker 1: too optimistic. But the Kim situation strikes me as an

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Speaker 1: opportunity where we are seeing twenty sixteen style resist.

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Speaker 5: And it worked, I wouldn't say that's too optimistic. And

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Speaker 5: I was on Nicole yesterday offering a version of that argument, right,

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Speaker 5: which is, like you can see in the Kimmel thing,

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Speaker 5: the ways in which Trump is weaker than he lets

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Speaker 5: on if the opposition actually stands up to him, right,

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Speaker 5: Like a lot of Trump's wins have come from people folding.

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Speaker 5: You know, I saw this on immigration. I wrote this

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Speaker 5: up a lot about El Salvador. El salvag was such

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Speaker 5: a tragedy what they did to those men, sending them

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Speaker 5: to without due process. But like their stated plan was

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Speaker 5: to send a lot of people to El salvatark right

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Speaker 5: when Keela first came, remember when there was still some

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Speaker 5: pop there. Like Trump's whole thing was that you got

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Speaker 5: to build me a bigger prison, right because I got

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Speaker 5: a much more people come in your way. And so

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Speaker 5: they went from that because of pushback, partially ly in

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Speaker 5: through the courts, and like a ton of great work

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Speaker 5: was out there in the courts, partially through the media,

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Speaker 5: partially through regular people protesting right like and protest us

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Speaker 5: in Central America, right, like a combination of the Senator's

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Speaker 5: going there. Yeah, just a combination of all of the

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Speaker 5: parts of civil society saying no, we're opposed to this,

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Speaker 5: and now there's nobody there right leaves sense right, and

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Speaker 5: so that's good. So you've had some small examples of that,

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Speaker 5: and I think that those are the models we should

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Speaker 5: look to as far as resistance, like my only caveat

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Speaker 5: to it on the Kimmel thing. And we'll see how

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Speaker 5: this all plays out, like the developing as we're taping.

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Speaker 5: But like we have these two affiliates that are not

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Speaker 5: I'm next star as well, that's the next star one

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Speaker 5: is more interesting to me because Sinclair is like the

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Speaker 5: Newsmacs of local media. So that's bad in its own right,

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Speaker 5: but like that's been bad for a while. The nextra

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Speaker 5: thing is new. This is a new kind of corruption

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Speaker 5: where it's like if you have business before the government,

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Speaker 5: you are then cajoled into silencing the government's critics or

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Speaker 5: doing some sort of favor for the government in order

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Speaker 5: to get it. Like that is you know, banana republic shit,

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Speaker 5: and like that's what we're having right now. And so

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Speaker 5: that's where I'm not like, so you know, optimistic about it,

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Speaker 5: Like there's some good parts, but like the nextar thing

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Speaker 5: is to watch for me.

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Speaker 1: It's the Jeff Bezos school of trump Ism.

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Speaker 5: Right, Sherry Redstone, it's CBS, same thing, right, yeah, Zuck.

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Speaker 5: A lot of them, They are just a ton of

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Speaker 5: them that are doing this right now.

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Speaker 1: You want regulatory approval. But the tension between consumers consuming

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Speaker 1: what we saw with Target and what we're seeing with

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Speaker 1: Disney where they lost you know, three billion dollars in

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Speaker 1: market share, not a huge number for them, but still,

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Speaker 1: you know, not good. The tension between what people want

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Speaker 1: and what the autocrat wants is real.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and people still have power in this front, right,

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Speaker 5: you know again, I think there's just part of it

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Speaker 5: was people who are very beat down, you know, yeah,

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Speaker 5: and I get it, sign me up to the front.

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Speaker 5: And you know, part of it is like there's a

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Speaker 5: sense of lack of power, lack of agency, lack of power,

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Speaker 5: like what can we do? There's something we can actually do,

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Speaker 5: won't make a difference. It's fucking idiot, moron one twice now,

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Speaker 5: it's you know what I mean. So I it was

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Speaker 5: part of that, and then there were as part of

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Speaker 5: like there's no leadership really right, Democratic party that is

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Speaker 5: shis in pretty weak. And then in civil society university

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Speaker 5: that we can go down the list of people haven't

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Speaker 5: stood up to him, and so that conflence has made

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Speaker 5: a lot of people feel like, oh, it's not worth

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Speaker 5: it to do these sorts of campaigns to push back

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Speaker 5: against them. But we can see that that they do

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Speaker 5: work again, like on the margins. Not everything's going to

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Speaker 5: be great tomorrow, right, but like he can't be pushed

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Speaker 5: back against. And he's still despite the fact that you know,

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Speaker 5: he has some anti democratic desires at minimum, right, he's

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Speaker 5: still at this point today is subject to political reality

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Speaker 5: and like, and we've seen that on our number of things, tariffs,

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Speaker 5: you know, other things where it's like he is not

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Speaker 5: totally acting like Putin right now, like he's acting like

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Speaker 5: a aspiring autocrat that is pretty shameless, but within the

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Speaker 5: pull back, like but still has to adhere to some

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Speaker 5: laws of political gravity, which is, you know, different than

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Speaker 5: other politicians, but like it's not we should we shouldn't.

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Speaker 5: And sometimes I see a and I wonder if you

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Speaker 5: see this too in your like comments, And I try

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Speaker 5: to push back against this with people because like I'm

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Speaker 5: pretty dark, but like sometimes I see in feedback from

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Speaker 5: people that like this is hopeless, Like why are you

435
00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,159
Speaker 5: even talking like they're going to be more elections, like

436
00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:20,600
Speaker 5: it's over, and it's like, well, it's bad, it's bad,

437
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,520
Speaker 5: but it's not over. And we've already seen plenty of

438
00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:27,560
Speaker 5: evidence that like he is responsive to like some types

439
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,679
Speaker 5: of democratic pushback. And I mean that as a small

440
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 5: d you know, democracy being all of us, and you

441
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:36,000
Speaker 5: know we've seen that a little.

442
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 3: Bit this week.

443
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:38,919
Speaker 1: No, I agree, and I think that's right. And I

444
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:41,600
Speaker 1: also think cynicism is the enemy of all of this.

445
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:45,879
Speaker 1: I want you to talk about. We are hurtling towards

446
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:49,840
Speaker 1: a shutdown. So Democrats are very excited about They were

447
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 1: very excited about getting this meeting because one of my

448
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,440
Speaker 1: hobbies is I yell at comm's people when they try

449
00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,159
Speaker 1: to give me stories. I just tell them all the

450
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,680
Speaker 1: ways in which they point disappointed. That's the Jewish mother

451
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:02,160
Speaker 1: I am.

452
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,920
Speaker 5: So I say glad, I'm glad that you're out there

453
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:09,400
Speaker 5: doing that because I am ghosting them and I love

454
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:12,040
Speaker 5: you all comms people, and I do. It's more it's

455
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:13,879
Speaker 5: about me. It's kind of a it's me not you

456
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:15,879
Speaker 5: time thing where it's just like I used to be

457
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,639
Speaker 5: a comms person. I used to shovel shit and so

458
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:20,399
Speaker 5: it makes me feel bad for them that they have

459
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,480
Speaker 5: to shit to me, And so rather than arguing with them,

460
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:25,239
Speaker 5: I just pretend like I didn't see it.

461
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,680
Speaker 1: So I literally come back with I'm really disappointed about

462
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 1: that debt, and do you really think that that dea

463
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,840
Speaker 1: debt will work? And also you realize and then I

464
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,200
Speaker 1: send them all the mean tweets that people tweeted without

465
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,400
Speaker 1: them got it. So that's my interaction. So I, as

466
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:44,840
Speaker 1: you can tell, I'm real popular mother, and this is

467
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:49,120
Speaker 1: what we this is how we get results. So it

468
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 1: is emotional blackmail. So they are super excited about this

469
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:56,840
Speaker 1: meeting with Trump. They really wanted it, they got it.

470
00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:01,320
Speaker 1: Trump canceled it, hurtling towards a show down. What if you,

471
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:03,920
Speaker 1: I mean, do you think this is a good call?

472
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,560
Speaker 1: And if not, what should they be doing?

473
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 5: I could be a really unsatisfying act answer to this one. Sure,

474
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 5: this situation is really hard. It's really easy.

475
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, rather have a nuanced take.

476
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 5: Yeah exactly, I just think that and I get it.

477
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:23,560
Speaker 5: And I have been, you know, at the front of

478
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:27,720
Speaker 5: the parade on the do something parade. Yeah, democrats like

479
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 5: do anything, just like do something, show me you're alive.

480
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 5: Poking them with a stick. I got that has been

481
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 5: me and and I and there's something at some point

482
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:38,199
Speaker 5: there's like something easy about that which is like, what,

483
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 5: I'm happy that the Gavin thing have been exactly what

484
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,280
Speaker 5: I would have done as far as the mocking tweets,

485
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,280
Speaker 5: but it's like working and I'm happy he's doing right

486
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 5: like anyway, So I understand that like the tendency, especially

487
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,920
Speaker 5: of like hyper political resistance podcast listeners are gonna be like,

488
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,600
Speaker 5: do shut it down, do something. I'm with that, like

489
00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 5: emotionally right, but like, what's the end It's hard to

490
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 5: think of an endgame, right, Like it's hard like are

491
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:05,360
Speaker 5: you are we really going to show the government down

492
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 5: our demo? Are people going to hurt? Are people going

493
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 5: to lose, you know, access to government services, to the paychecks?

494
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 5: It's how long is that paying going to last? Is

495
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 5: our Hakeem and Chuck at the end of it going

496
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:19,119
Speaker 5: to just go with their tail between their legs the

497
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:21,679
Speaker 5: Trump and look even weaker than they did before, right Like,

498
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,359
Speaker 5: I just you need a plan. This is probably a

499
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:25,960
Speaker 5: metaphor that's going to get me in trouble. But it

500
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 5: was always my critique of the Israel causal war where

501
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:30,640
Speaker 5: I was like, I'm kind of for you pushing back

502
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:32,919
Speaker 5: after October seventh, but what is your plan again, Like

503
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,880
Speaker 5: what's the strategy? Like we can't just be here forever,

504
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,359
Speaker 5: right and and so you know, you don't want to

505
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 5: have the same same strategic miscalculation. So for me, it's

506
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 5: kind of like I don't know. I'd pick an issue

507
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 5: or two, and I try to make it very clear

508
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:49,679
Speaker 5: what that is. They're picking health care, you know, and

509
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 5: say to people, hey, we want you to have this.

510
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,199
Speaker 5: Your Obamacare premiums are going to go up. We're going

511
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 5: to fight for this, We're going to fight against this,

512
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 5: you know, We're going to do it for as long

513
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 5: as we can. At the end of the day, then

514
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 5: we're going to keep it closed for a year and

515
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,440
Speaker 5: a half where people don't care. Like that's just not doable,

516
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 5: you know. So at the end of the day, if

517
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 5: if Donald Trump has to jam this through and we

518
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,200
Speaker 5: a bunch of Democrats abstain, there's gonna be a bunch

519
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,200
Speaker 5: of a man at Democrats and shouting at them about that.

520
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:18,160
Speaker 5: And I'll understand that, but like, okay, what's the other option,

521
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 5: Like the Republicans aren't going to come to the table,

522
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 5: don't care that you know, people are like, well, there's

523
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,479
Speaker 5: an asymmetry here. It's like, yeah, the Republicans are in

524
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:31,360
Speaker 5: Congress and the Democrats are in the White House. They

525
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 5: do have more chips in this argument because they don't

526
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,440
Speaker 5: give a fuck if people don't get their food stamps

527
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 5: or whatever, you know, not essentially, so like whatever and

528
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:42,399
Speaker 5: like the Demo you know, so like makes it a

529
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,120
Speaker 5: little more complicated. So I would just try to message

530
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 5: it as clearly as possible, tack a couple of issues

531
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 5: for maybe force them to try to jam this thing

532
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 5: through without you know, without Democrats, which would require breaking rules.

533
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 5: But they've broken a lot of rules already, right, and

534
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,199
Speaker 5: and and and and least come out of us at

535
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 5: the end with your endgame being like everyone will know

536
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 5: at the end of this that we wanted your premiums

537
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 5: to go down on your health care and the Republicans

538
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 5: didn't give a fuck and they jammed it through anyway,

539
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,159
Speaker 5: And like, I think that's probably the best they can do.

540
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 1: It is interesting, though, because it would be good for Republicans.

541
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 5: For the Democrats to try to shut it down.

542
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:24,959
Speaker 1: No, I mean, it would be good for Republicans for

543
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 1: them to lower Obama.

544
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, I know. This was the other thing. So my

545
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 5: husband we were chatting about this. The other shows you

546
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 5: it's like complicated. His point was like, why are we

547
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,680
Speaker 5: picking healthcare because he was like, what if they fold? Right,

548
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 5: Like what if they fold on it? And then and

549
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 5: then he's like, don't we want people to see that

550
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,440
Speaker 5: the Republican policies are hurting them in their healthcare premiums.

551
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 5: I hear that, like, I don't know, that's what I'm saying.

552
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:47,879
Speaker 5: It's kind of there's not a perfect option, Like there

553
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 5: could have been another path that was like, you know,

554
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,479
Speaker 5: we're not going to fund your ice agents until they

555
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 5: take off their masks. But then some people would say, well,

556
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,399
Speaker 5: immigration's kind of a winning issue for Democrat Republicans. You

557
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 5: really want to pick that one. Okay, It's not like

558
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 5: we're going to say refund USAID and I would like

559
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,640
Speaker 5: that would be my policy prefer Nobody actually cares about

560
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,359
Speaker 5: USA idea except you and me and like eighteen other people, right, Like,

561
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 5: it's a little bit more complex than people think. I'm

562
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 5: reserving judgment. Actually, well, so I want to see how

563
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 5: things go over the next week.

564
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:15,400
Speaker 1: What a nice nuanced take.

565
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 5: Tim Miller, thank you, Junk Fast. Good to see you again.

566
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 1: Go of the newsletter Abortion every Day. Welcome to Fast Politics, Jessica,

567
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 1: thank you for having me.

568
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 4: I'm really excited to be on. I'm talking to you.

569
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:35,640
Speaker 1: It's like first time call a longtime reader. So I'm

570
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 1: very much sam. Wow, I'm very excited. This is very cool,

571
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 1: you know, as someone who I have a lot of

572
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,199
Speaker 1: respect for what you do, and I'm going to introduce you,

573
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 1: which we like tend not to do because why would we.

574
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 1: But you write this, this incredible newsletter which is called

575
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 1: Abortion every Day. And when you started writing it, I

576
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 1: think you saw what was coming. But I mean, it's

577
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 1: been how long have you been doing the newsletter? And

578
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,159
Speaker 1: how do you poster you?

579
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 4: You know, I've been doing a pretty good job but

580
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,680
Speaker 4: being more angry than depressed, Like I'm pretty good at

581
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 4: just like keeping the fury level at like an all

582
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 4: time high and that tends to help. But I started it,

583
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 4: you know, I already had a substack where I was

584
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 4: doing sort of like a weekly feminist column, but I

585
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 4: started it officially after Rose overturned, and it sort of

586
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:27,880
Speaker 4: like came about organically because there was so much horrible

587
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 4: shit happening that I was trying to keep track of

588
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 4: that I decided to I was like, Okay, I'm gonna

589
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 4: write a little bit, almost for myself. And after a

590
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 4: couple of weeks I realized, no, this is a this

591
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 4: is a thing, that this is a thing that needs doing,

592
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 4: And sort of naively, I wondered why be able to

593
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 4: write about this? Like will there be enough news to

594
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 4: write about every day? And boy was I stupid because

595
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 4: I could write, you know, four newsletters a day and

596
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 4: it wouldn't be enough exactly.

597
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 1: So let's talk about one of the hot hot ideas

598
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 1: right now is to run anti choice democrats. I didn't

599
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 1: know that was a thing, but I didn't even know

600
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 1: you could find an anti choice democrat because choice seems

601
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 1: so popular in all of these ballad initiatives. So talk

602
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 1: us through why that's not a thing.

603
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, it's it's a sort of absurd idea,

604
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 4: to be honest, especially, I think the idea is that

605
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 4: the Democrats need to have a bigger tent, need to

606
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 4: open the party to more people if we want to

607
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 4: beat back fascism, beat back like this horror show that

608
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 4: we're all in and I think that there's sure there's

609
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 4: a conversation to have about a bigger tent more broadly,

610
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 4: but when you're talking about the fundamental human rights of

611
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 4: half the population, that is not something that should be

612
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 4: up for debate. And as you said, this is a

613
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 4: really popular issue, right like abortion rights is one of

614
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 4: democrats most popular issues. It is not that is actually

615
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,719
Speaker 4: making the tent bigger, right like leaning into abortion this

616
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 4: is how we're getting Republican voters like, this is the

617
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 4: issue that we can actually use. And so when you know,

618
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 4: when pundits and again unfortunately a lot of the women,

619
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 4: when they talk about sort of throwing women's rights under

620
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 4: the bus in service of getting more votes, it reveals

621
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 4: that they don't follow this issue and that they don't

622
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 4: know what they're talking about when it comes to this issue.

623
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 4: Because of how popular it.

624
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 1: Is, you wrote this really good newsletter that goes through

625
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: how popular it is. And i'd love you to sort

626
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 1: of like give us the highlights. I mean, there's stuff

627
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 1: like there are different states where it's more popular than

628
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 1: other states, but really it's so so like i'd love

629
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 1: you to talk about sort of the states like Nevada,

630
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 1: like New Jersey, Pennsylvania. Just talk us through what that

631
00:30:59,280 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: looks like.

632
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 4: Sure, I mean, I think you can look at pretty

633
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 4: much any state and see that it is pro choice,

634
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 4: like voters overwhelming. You're like, you go to Tennessee, voters,

635
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 4: voters want the abortion band gone. You go to what

636
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 4: you would consider red states, like really red states, they

637
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 4: don't want the government involved in abortion at all. Nationally,

638
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 4: we know that it is any one percent of Americans

639
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 4: do not want they don't want a law on abortion,

640
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 4: They do not want pregnancy and abortion legislated. Eighty one

641
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 4: percent is a massive, massive numbers, Like that's a really

642
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 4: that's a really big deal. In the states, some of

643
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 4: the states I talked about in the newsletter last night,

644
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 4: I mentioned them because when you know, asra client made

645
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 4: this comment about pro life democrats, he mentioned, you know,

646
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 4: if you want to win in Missouri, Ohio, Kansas, you

647
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,479
Speaker 4: know you need pro life democrats. It just so happens

648
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,479
Speaker 4: that all three of those states in the past two

649
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 4: or three years had huge, huge ballot measure wins. Right

650
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 4: in Kansas, they back in anti abortion ballot measure sixty forty,

651
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 4: like they completely walloped it. In Ohio, they passed the

652
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 4: purchose ballot measure. In Missouri, they passed the purchase ballot

653
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 4: measure and the you know the thing I said about

654
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 4: Missouri that I think is really telling Republicans there know

655
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:21,479
Speaker 4: how popular this issue is, to the point where the

656
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 4: pro choice ballot measure that they passed was called Amendment three.

657
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 4: Now in twenty twenty six, Republicans are putting a ban

658
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 4: on the ballot. They're calling it Amendment three because the hope,

659
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 4: because they know how popular it is, and the hope

660
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 4: is to is to trick voters. So Republicans understand that

661
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 4: this is where they're losing and that this is where

662
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 4: they need to like roll back. So it just blows

663
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 4: my mind that Democrats that some Democrats don't understand that.

664
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: I would love you to talk us through why you

665
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 1: think that abortion is, while being super popular, an issue

666
00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: that people are willing to sort of liked of like

667
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: the success of Donald Trump. And you know, I feel

668
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 1: like I'm gonna get hit by lightning by saying this,

669
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 1: But is that he pretended to be pro choice and

670
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 1: he continues to pretend to be pro choice.

671
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean, I think a huge part of it,

672
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 4: unfortunately is media coverage and sort of like the perfectuation

673
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 4: of both sides media where we are giving equal space

674
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 4: and credibility to you know, the anti abortion movement, which

675
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 4: is they lie, they have science against them, and again

676
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 4: like very very unpopular, and yet the media coverage. If

677
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 4: people were just to look at sort of like magazines

678
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 4: and newspapers and knew nothing about abortion, they would assume

679
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 4: that the country is evenly split or that this is

680
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 4: like a really controversial issue among voters, and that is

681
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 4: like a myth that just keeps ongoing and going. And

682
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 4: I think even for that's even for politicos, even for

683
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 4: people who pay attention to this issue broadly, if they're

684
00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:00,080
Speaker 4: not paying attention to abortion and they don't understand any

685
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 4: thing about it, then it's easy to say, oh, well,

686
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 4: you know the country, the country has split on abortion.

687
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 1: Right.

688
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 4: It hasn't been It hasn't been true for decades, and

689
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:11,319
Speaker 4: it's certainly not true now right not while people are

690
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:15,360
Speaker 4: are seeing their their neighbors, you know, get success or

691
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 4: have to carry and doomed pregnancies to term. People are

692
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 4: really outraged over it.

693
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 1: Talk to me about what's happening with birth control. I

694
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:26,839
Speaker 1: would love you to just talk to us about what

695
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 1: you've seen since the overturning of ROW, I think, and

696
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,280
Speaker 1: I want you to start with SBA, because I feel

697
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 1: like SBA for me, that was the moment where I

698
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 1: was like, Oh, they're gonna overturn ROW, like nobody's you know, SBA.

699
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 1: This Texas state law that overturned ROW a year before

700
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 1: ROW was officially overturned, and it basically was allowed to

701
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 1: stand on the shadow docket. And when I saw that coming,

702
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: I knew they had just that that was not going

703
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:56,240
Speaker 1: to be a right we had for a much longer

704
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 1: talk to us about like do you have that same thought?

705
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 1: And sort of I would love you to first talk

706
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 1: about sbare.

707
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 4: I think, like a lot of other feminists and abortion

708
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 4: rights activists, like we saw it coming a mile away.

709
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 4: We knew that that's what they had been building towards

710
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,840
Speaker 4: for fifty years, you know, through this chipping away approach

711
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 4: and then through through SB eight, through this abortion band,

712
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,360
Speaker 4: and of course Texas continues to be sort of the

713
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 4: canary and the call mine for the rest of the country.

714
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:26,320
Speaker 4: If you ever want to know what's going to happen

715
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 4: with abortion rights, you know, six months from now, a

716
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:30,720
Speaker 4: year from now, just look at what they're doing in Texas.

717
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 4: I think we all did know it was coming. What

718
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:38,399
Speaker 4: was so frustrating was this sort of response from the

719
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 4: mainstream and from like liberal men and progressive men, mostly men,

720
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 4: that was, that's not going to happen, right, like you're

721
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 4: I mean literally, I were being hysterical, hysterical, hysterical, you're

722
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 4: being hysterical. That's never going to happen. And of course

723
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:00,839
Speaker 4: we were right. And it's sort of now doing this

724
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 4: newsletter and writing about what's happening every day, I see

725
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 4: the same thing happening where like me, other feminists, other

726
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:11,320
Speaker 4: people who work in this field are warning about birth control,

727
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:14,320
Speaker 4: are warning about the right to travel, and their response

728
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:19,919
Speaker 4: is that's never going to happen. You're overreacting. That's never

729
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 4: going to Is there going to be a point where

730
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 4: you listen. Is there going to be a point where

731
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 4: you like, trust the expertise and see that we continue

732
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 4: to be right again and again and that we know

733
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 4: what we're talking about because we are tracking this really closely.

734
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 4: I don't know. I think I have to remain a

735
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 4: little bit of football right now.

736
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,879
Speaker 1: What you said about SBA Texas Canary and the coal mine,

737
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 1: the right to travel is already being tipped away in

738
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 1: Texas to talk us through what that looks like.

739
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,719
Speaker 4: It's Texas in a couple of other states. So in

740
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 4: Idaho and Tennessee, both of those states paths what they

741
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 4: are calling an abortion trafficking law and anti trafficking law,

742
00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 4: which they say is about preventing abusive adults from taking

743
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:04,799
Speaker 4: miners across state lines to get abortions to cover up

744
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 4: evidence of their crime. Right in reality, when you look

745
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:11,800
Speaker 4: at the law, what it actually says is any adults,

746
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 4: it could be a grandmother and aunt, right, trusted friend,

747
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 4: any adult who helps a teenager get an abortion in

748
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:21,840
Speaker 4: any wet even like sending them a text message with

749
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 4: a URL to a clinic. That that is abortion trafficking.

750
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 4: That is a felony. You can go to prison for that.

751
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:31,399
Speaker 4: With those laws, the free speech infringement parts have been

752
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:35,320
Speaker 4: blocked that they're still fighting it out in court. In Texas. Again,

753
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 4: they're always ahead of the game. It's not just teens,

754
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 4: it's adults. They have ordinances. I think it's like ten

755
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:46,319
Speaker 4: counties at this point, ten counties in towns where they

756
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:50,399
Speaker 4: have passed what they're calling abortion trafficking laws that make

757
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 4: it illegal to use the state roads or highways go

758
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 4: through the county to travel out of the state to

759
00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:00,840
Speaker 4: get an abortion, or to travel to get abortion medication, again,

760
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 4: no matter what your age. And while that is not

761
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 4: a criminal offense, it's essentially like the rest of us

762
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 4: bea someone can sue you, They can sue the shit

763
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 4: out of you, ruin your life. And the idea is

764
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 4: to create this chilling effect where women, pregnant people are

765
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 4: too afraid to leave the state to get the care

766
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 4: that they need, and that the people who might normally

767
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 4: help them will be too afraid of lawsuits to stick

768
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:31,319
Speaker 4: their neck out. It is, you know, a fundamentally anti community,

769
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 4: you know, snitch culture situation that they are setting up.

770
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:37,839
Speaker 4: And I don't know how much clearer they can be. Right,

771
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:41,760
Speaker 4: they've had the anti abortion activists who's sort of leading

772
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:45,319
Speaker 4: the charge on these ordinances has been asked, well, you

773
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 4: know these are adults you're talking about. How can you

774
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:51,839
Speaker 4: call that trafficking when it's an adult who's willingly leaving

775
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:54,800
Speaker 4: your state, And he said, the fetus is always being trafficked.

776
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 1: The fetus is fetus is being trafficked.

777
00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 4: Fetus is being trafficked. So if you leave the state.

778
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,839
Speaker 4: His idea is, if you're pregnant person leaving the state,

779
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 4: you're trafficking the fetus.

780
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:10,320
Speaker 1: And this isn't Matthew Kause Merrick, right, everyone knows that's.

781
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 4: Not the judge. No, that this is Mark Dickson, who's

782
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 4: like a full weirdo, like backwards baseball cap has like creepy,

783
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 4: you know, youth pastor vibes. He goes down to town

784
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 4: trying to trying to pass these things. But like what's

785
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 4: important to know though, is that this isn't just going

786
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 4: to stay in Texas. Last year, Montana Republicans proposed a

787
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 4: law that said, if you are pregnant and you leave

788
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 4: the state for an abortion, you are trafficking your fetus.

789
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:44,400
Speaker 4: You're trafficking you're on fetus. Obviously it didn't go anywhere,

790
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:46,279
Speaker 4: but like they're trying.

791
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 1: And this is where it's going. I was on bellmar

792
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:53,800
Speaker 1: Show and we're talking about this story about how Crosco

793
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 1: is no longer carrying matthe and Prisstown. They would make

794
00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 1: me jokes about Cosco buying in bulk, but but that's

795
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:05,319
Speaker 1: not what's happening here. And clearly there's also like a

796
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:11,320
Speaker 1: kind of Cold War on the pills, the medical abortion pills,

797
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,879
Speaker 1: but also the birth control pill writ large to talk

798
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 1: us through.

799
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 4: That, Yeah, I mean, listen, this is another thing that

800
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 4: they have been working on and shipping away at for decades,

801
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:26,360
Speaker 4: and that the primary way that they are going after

802
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 4: it is by conflating contraception with abortion and by saying

803
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 4: that certain kinds of contraception are actually abortifationis right. Yeah, So,

804
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 4: like the same conservative legal organizations that are fighting to

805
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 4: get methipristone off of Costcos shelves and other pharmacies are

806
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 4: also though they're not quite as loud about it, fighting

807
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 4: to get emergency contraception off of their shelves because they

808
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 4: say it's an abortion. They are arguing that iud's are abortions,

809
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 4: and even the birth control pill. And the story that

810
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 4: I'm very concerned about that I've been covered for the

811
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:03,399
Speaker 4: last two weeks I think is that the Trump administration

812
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 4: basically made their first official move, first official statement, policy

813
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 4: calling birth control abortion and it's nowhere. There's like no

814
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:18,400
Speaker 4: coverage of it. It's wild. And this was several like

815
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,440
Speaker 4: the State Department usaid. It has to do with this

816
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 4: ten million dollar stockpile of birth control that everyone they

817
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 4: talking about, Yeah, which they're I don't know if they

818
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 4: destroyed it or it's set to be destroyed. There was

819
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 4: some concoction about it because like who knows, but they're

820
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:34,839
Speaker 4: but they said they're going to destroy it. And they

821
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 4: said they're going to destroy it because it's abortion. And

822
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 4: you're talking about iud's the pill and hormonal implants. You're

823
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:45,400
Speaker 4: talking about the Trump administration saying that the most common

824
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 4: forms of birth control are actually abortifationis and it's in

825
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 4: like the seventh paragraph of the time story. It's mind

826
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:55,759
Speaker 4: blowing to me because that is how they get away

827
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:57,959
Speaker 4: with it. They're just dipping their toe in the water.

828
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:00,720
Speaker 4: They're putting it out there again and again and again.

829
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 4: And that's what's happening. And so how long until it's

830
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 4: not just you know, birth control that is supposed to

831
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 4: be dispensed to women abroad, but women here. It's very

832
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:15,279
Speaker 4: clear that this is where they're going with it.

833
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:20,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is just so dark in my mind.

834
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 1: I know this, but I want you to say this,

835
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 1: what do you think the larger goal here is?

836
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 4: It is the tron wife bullshit, right, It is the control.

837
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 4: It is re establishing white supremist, white male patriarchal control

838
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 4: over every aspect of women's lives. It's about pushing us

839
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:42,400
Speaker 4: back into the home, about getting us out of the

840
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:46,840
Speaker 4: public sphere, about making sure that we are forever fragment

841
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 4: and so that we can't go anywhere. It's about taking

842
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 4: away financial control. Like the best way to keep women

843
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:58,319
Speaker 4: American women under sort of like the patriarchalm is to

844
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 4: ensure that they're forever pregnant, sure that they that they're

845
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 4: that they are constantly physically vulnerable and I can't do

846
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,279
Speaker 4: anything about it. And so at the end of the day,

847
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 4: like that's what this is about. To me, it's not

848
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 4: a coincidence that this is all happening at the same

849
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:15,320
Speaker 4: time that conservatives are putting millions and millions of dollars

850
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 4: into this insidious, you know, cultural campaign against birth control,

851
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 4: saying birth control hurdso the campaign with the child wife

852
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 4: stuff saying like it's actually great to be at home.

853
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 4: And unfortunately, like I do think that Democrats are fucking

854
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:33,600
Speaker 4: it up on this because they're so obsessed with getting

855
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 4: young male voters to their side and assuming that young

856
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:40,280
Speaker 4: women are always going to be there for them, even

857
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 4: as conservatives are running this massive indoctrination machine. It's it's dangerous.

858
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 4: We're in danger of losing those votes.

859
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 1: It's just so incredibly dark, the reality of ROW, the

860
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 1: people bleeding out in their you know, women going to hospitals,

861
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 1: not being able to be treated, that reality. Do you

862
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:05,440
Speaker 1: think people are seeing it firsthand? And do you think

863
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 1: it is changing hearts and minds because that's what happened

864
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy three.

865
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think yes and no. I think when those

866
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,360
Speaker 4: stories are out there, we know that they make a difference.

867
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 4: We know that people's personal accounts of being denied care

868
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:23,439
Speaker 4: and the suffering that they're facing, we know that that

869
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 4: changes people's hearts and minds. And I think that it's

870
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 4: only a matter of time before every single person in

871
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 4: this country knows someone who's been impacted by a band,

872
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:36,720
Speaker 4: whether it's that they got sepsis or were really harmed,

873
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 4: or they you know, had to wait three months to

874
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 4: get their paths near like, it's not long before everyone

875
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:45,280
Speaker 4: is going to be impacted by this. But I also

876
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 4: think that there is this really specific, proactive move to

877
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:54,400
Speaker 4: cover those stories up, to sweep them under the rug.

878
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:59,879
Speaker 4: You know, you have Republicans shutting down maternal mortality committees.

879
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 4: You have them saying that, you know, these women who

880
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:07,360
Speaker 4: are dying didn't actually die because they were denied abortions,

881
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 4: but because of abortion pills. Like again, because they've been

882
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:13,399
Speaker 4: planning this for so long. They knew women were going

883
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 4: to die, right, they like strategized over that and polled

884
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,879
Speaker 4: for it and messaged for it. And now they're they're

885
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 4: doing all the stuff that they planned for. And so

886
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:25,360
Speaker 4: I am concerned that if we're not fighting back really

887
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 4: aggressively on that and making sure the stories are out there,

888
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 4: that people won't hear them.

889
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I mean and that and there we are,

890
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:38,400
Speaker 1: Jessica Vlendi, will you please come back.

891
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 3: There? No, mo.

892
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:44,720
Speaker 1: Jesse Cannon.

893
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 2: My did you know it's quote unquote really illegal for

894
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 2: journalists to cover Trump's administration negatively?

895
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 3: Because that's what he's saying.

896
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:56,840
Speaker 1: It's really illegal. It's the most illegal. It's so illegal.

897
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:58,280
Speaker 1: Why is it so illegal?

898
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 3: Many people are saying it's illegal.

899
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:03,320
Speaker 1: Many people are saying, is look we're at in times

900
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:09,319
Speaker 1: stupid here? This is it intimes stupid. So Trump is

901
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:13,880
Speaker 1: a free speech warrior, but not really, my man. He

902
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 1: has a whole shtick about how much bad publicity he's

903
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:20,839
Speaker 1: gotten and how horrible that is for him. You're going

904
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:23,240
Speaker 1: to be shocked to hear this, but Donald Trump really

905
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 1: does not like bad purplic today.

906
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 3: That is the vibe I've picked up from him.

907
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 1: Anyone who's mean to him, he really wants to get

908
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:28,919
Speaker 1: them back.

909
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 2: We did that great interview about revenge this summer and

910
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 2: how fixated he is on it, and it wrings in

911
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 2: my head every time I see something like this.

912
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:40,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's really focused on revenge and he wants to

913
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 1: basically shut down the mainstream media luckily for us. Oh wait,

914
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 1: never mind, that's it for this episode of Fast Politics.

915
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 1: Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday to hear

916
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: the best minds and politics makes sense of all this chaos.

917
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 1: If you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a

918
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 1: friend and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.