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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney alongside

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Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day we bring

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Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along

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Speaker 1: with essential market moving news.

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Speaker 2: I'm the Bloomberg Markets podcast called Apple Podcasts or wherever

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Speaker 2: you listen to podcasts, and at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast.

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Speaker 3: I want to.

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Speaker 4: Quickly move over to our next guest. Whoever better than

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Speaker 4: to talk about the economy. We have Steve Matthews' economy

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Speaker 4: reporter at Bloomberg News, who's going to join us to

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Speaker 4: talk about the latest when it comes to the Federal Reserve.

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Speaker 4: Also James Bullard set to leave the Central Bank. But

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Speaker 4: first I want to get your thoughts just overall on

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Speaker 4: the economy, Steve, because we did just get these big banks,

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Speaker 4: especially when you're thinking about JP Morgan Wills Fargo City

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Speaker 4: reporting about not just of course they're earnings more backward looking.

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Speaker 4: This came over a tumultuous time when you think about

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Speaker 4: the regional banks and the stresses that the banking industry

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Speaker 4: went over, especially in the spring. What do you think

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Speaker 4: this tells us about the direction and trajectory of thecon mean,

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Speaker 4: when you see these results.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's exactly right. I mean, the FED

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Speaker 2: has been looking at the economic data, but they've also

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Speaker 2: been watching very carefully what's happening with the banking sector.

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Speaker 2: And the reports we've gotten so far are kind of

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Speaker 2: a green light for more interest rate hikes. I mean,

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Speaker 2: the banks seem to be doing fine. You know, there

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Speaker 2: was a worry when we had three moderately big failures

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Speaker 2: in March that okay, this could kind of lead to

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Speaker 2: you know, another series of bank failures and there could

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Speaker 2: be some volatility and who knows where it would end up.

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Speaker 2: And basically, right now, things seem pretty calm and the

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Speaker 2: big banks are doing, you know, better than expected them.

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Speaker 2: And look at JP Morgan and some of the others.

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Speaker 2: You know, the one caveat there is the FED is

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Speaker 2: really probably more focused on the regional banks and a

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Speaker 2: lot of the regional banks and to see how how

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Speaker 2: they are doing, and a lot of those won't report

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Speaker 2: until you know, next week or even the week after.

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Speaker 5: Did we get any indicators so far from some of

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Speaker 5: these major banks about how the regional banks might perform,

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Speaker 5: because remember, you know, at that moment of crisis, we

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Speaker 5: saw a lot of deposits flood to these major folks,

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Speaker 5: whereas some of the more regional players were left on

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Speaker 5: the sidelines. Or are we really waiting until next week

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Speaker 5: for the kit for the verdict on this?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think in the reality is we're

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Speaker 2: probably waiting for next week. But these banks have done well.

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Speaker 2: You know, their interest margins are doing well, you know,

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Speaker 2: their credit worthiness is fine. You know, there's been a

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Speaker 2: lot of worry about commercial real estate. That doesn't seem

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Speaker 2: to be a huge issue. I mean, it's a huge

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Speaker 2: issue going ahead because you have all of these office

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Speaker 2: buildings that are damaged by work from home, but in

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Speaker 2: this quarter it's not a particular issue. So the caveat

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Speaker 2: again is that the regional banks have a lot more

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Speaker 2: exposure to commercial real estate than you know, for example,

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Speaker 2: JP Morgan, Hey.

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Speaker 4: Steve something that struck me looking at cities results. So

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Speaker 4: it did get a boost when it comes to credit cards,

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Speaker 4: but part of that was actually due to borrowers that

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Speaker 4: were starting to struggle. You cover the economy so closely.

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Speaker 4: What do you think this tells us about consumer spending

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Speaker 4: right now?

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Speaker 2: Well, that's interesting and we, as you pointed out, earlier.

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Speaker 2: We also just got the Michigan Consumer Index Cinnament index

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Speaker 2: and cinema of consumers has been fairly dire the last

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Speaker 2: couple of years, and we saw a huge pickup in

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Speaker 2: cineament both for you know, how consumers are looking at

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Speaker 2: current conditions, how they're looking for expectations much higher than

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Speaker 2: anyone epected, and you know that kind of suggests that

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Speaker 2: consumer attitudes are are getting a little bit better. I mean,

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Speaker 2: if this, if this sticks, you know, the thing that's

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Speaker 2: driving this to a certain extent is inflation is coming down,

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Speaker 2: so you're having disinflation. We have three percent inflation. At

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Speaker 2: the same time, people's pay has been boosted recently because

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Speaker 2: of the inflation. If you look at the average wages

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Speaker 2: in the Atlanta Fed's wage tracker are running five point

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Speaker 2: six percent year over year, So people are getting real

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Speaker 2: wage s gains. And to the extent that people are

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Speaker 2: getting real wage gains, they have the ability to spend.

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Speaker 2: So you know, it's also a story of as you

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Speaker 2: point out of different segments, it's like, you know, the

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Speaker 2: rich are getting or getting richer to to a certain extent,

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Speaker 2: I mean, a lot of the spending comes from the

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Speaker 2: top half of the demographic segment.

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Speaker 6: You know.

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Speaker 5: To that end, you mentioned the consumer prices. We got

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Speaker 5: those numbers in earlier this week. We also got producer prices.

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Speaker 5: I mean, we see to seem to have two different narratives.

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Speaker 5: There are one that consumer prices and producer prices are

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Speaker 5: starting to disinflate at the same time as we have

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Speaker 5: all this optimism, which really goes against the FED the

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Speaker 5: traditional economic theory that you know, the FED really needs

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Speaker 5: to cause some kind of slow down in the economy,

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Speaker 5: which numbers is the central bank watching most closely?

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Speaker 2: Well, if you listen to FED Shair Pale, he's very

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Speaker 2: focused on the labor market. I mean there are, as

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Speaker 2: you point out, two schools the thoughts. There's the Phillips

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Speaker 2: curve thought that unemployment has to you know, go up

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Speaker 2: for inflation to come down, and there's this big relationship

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Speaker 2: between the two. And you know a lot of the

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Speaker 2: older FED leaders basically buy into that kind of labor

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Speaker 2: market view of inflation. But there's also some people who

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Speaker 2: are pushing back on it, like Austin Goules the Chicago FED,

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Speaker 2: you know, and even Jim Bullard, who is retiring, you know,

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Speaker 2: say that the relationship isn't all that clear. And we

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Speaker 2: have had disinflation so far without any labor market pain.

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Speaker 2: And you know, now there's a big debate at the FEDS.

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Speaker 2: Can this continue or do we need to see some

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Speaker 2: pain to get back to two percent inflation? And that's

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Speaker 2: going to be the big debate when the FED starts

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Speaker 2: meeting today, among other things, today is the last day

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Speaker 2: we get FED speak before the before the July meeting,

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Speaker 2: and then we go into a self imposed blackout. You know, right,

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Speaker 2: it'll be an interesting debate.

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Speaker 4: And Steve, we only have about thirty seconds left, but

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Speaker 4: we have to you brought up James Bullard, who set

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Speaker 4: to leave the Central Bank. How tricky is this for

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Speaker 4: the Fed's trajectory moving forward when you have a hawk

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Speaker 4: like that who's about to leave.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think in the short term Bullard

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Speaker 2: is highly influential. He definitely carried more than his single

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Speaker 2: vote because everybody paid attention to them, including the markets.

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Speaker 2: But Powell has firm control on the committee. So if

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Speaker 2: he wants to hike, he clearly wants to hike in July.

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Speaker 2: You know, whether we get a second hike or not

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Speaker 2: will be basically up up to Powell. He can continue

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Speaker 2: to do it if he wants.

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Speaker 4: All right, Steve Matthew's economy reporter at Bloomberg News. Always

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Speaker 4: a pleasure getting your take on all things when it

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Speaker 4: comes to the trajectory of economic growth.

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Speaker 1: Work.

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Speaker 7: You're listening to the teenth Ken's a line program Bloomberg

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Speaker 7: Markets weekdays at ten am. He's there on Bloomberg dot Com,

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Speaker 7: the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business App, or listen

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Speaker 7: on demand wherever you get your podcast.

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Speaker 4: Jessman and Smoon Foxman here in the Bloomberg Interactive Brokers studio.

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Speaker 4: And on a day when you're looking at these bank

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Speaker 4: earnings JP Morgan, Wells Fargo City Group all reporting this morning,

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Speaker 4: especially if you're looking at GP Morgan revenue soaring to

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Speaker 4: a record, really boosted by Fed interest rate hikes, and

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Speaker 4: also looking over at Wells Fargo those earning more net

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Speaker 4: interest income than analysts did expect it really helping giving

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Speaker 4: a boost to the broader equity market this Friday. But

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Speaker 4: who better to come in and speak with us and

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Speaker 4: break down these latest earnings results from the big banks

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Speaker 4: than Allison Williams, Senior Global Banks and Asset Manager Analysts

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Speaker 4: with Bloomberg Intelligence. Thanks so much for joining us in studio. Allison.

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Speaker 4: What's your takeaway once we got these first batch of

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Speaker 4: big banks this morning?

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Speaker 8: So I would say, obviously the net interest income upside

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Speaker 8: at all the banks and the higher guidance, especially with

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Speaker 8: respect to net interest income is positive, but I think

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Speaker 8: it was sort of expected by investors. We when you

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Speaker 8: looked at the run rate for these banks, you could

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Speaker 8: tell that their previous guidance was a little bit conservative.

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Speaker 8: I think the most impressive thing that we saw this

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Speaker 8: morning with the twenty five percent return on tangible equity

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Speaker 8: at JP Morgan. So that is helped by the interest income,

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Speaker 8: also helped by the better capital markets. Business costs in

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Speaker 8: line and provisions rising as we would expect with normalizing credit,

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Speaker 8: and so across the banks we're seeing, you know, trading

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Speaker 8: down a little bit but still normalizing within historically higher levels.

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Speaker 8: Fees M and A is really the big head when

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Speaker 8: they're as expected. Equity fees up a bit. We're seeing

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Speaker 8: some green shoots there, but we still expect that fees

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Speaker 8: are setting at a lower level, expenses basically in line

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Speaker 8: where you know there is some higher severance adding to

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Speaker 8: those costs, especially flagged by Wells Fargo. And then the

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Speaker 8: provision side, we are seeing reserve building again Wells Fargo,

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Speaker 8: which is the biggest commercial real estate lender adding related

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Speaker 8: to office profit properties. That's not a surprise, it's an

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Speaker 8: area that everyone's watching. And then that card growth really

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Speaker 8: that we're seeing in the loans also means that banks

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Speaker 8: are adding reserves.

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Speaker 5: Well, we'll dig into some of the details there. But

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Speaker 5: as as someone who is not as enmeshed in the

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Speaker 5: banking nitty gritty, no, I think it's not something that's

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Speaker 5: protectarly fantastic. As a finance reporter, however, I would I

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Speaker 5: want you to rank a differentiate for me between JP Morgan,

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Speaker 5: who shares up percent today, City Group down over one percent,

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Speaker 5: and Wells Fargo somewhere in between. I mean, is that

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Speaker 5: the ranking that we're seeing in terms of who's best

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Speaker 5: who's worst in our earnings report out today.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, so I would say JP Morgan again having the

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Speaker 8: strongest quarter and they're they're in their best position for

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Speaker 8: the long term, right, So they've been in this virtual

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Speaker 8: virtuous cycle of spending on technology, that technology benefiting them

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Speaker 8: with a competitive advantage, especially in business like deposit gathering

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Speaker 8: and the global investment banking business. With regard to City Group,

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Speaker 8: Jane Frasier really I think making all the right decisions there,

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Speaker 8: but that's really a longer term story. I mean that

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Speaker 8: that bank has been, you know, trying to sort of

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Speaker 8: revitalize itself and fix some things for a significant period

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Speaker 8: of time. One thing that they have in Commonwealth Fargo

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Speaker 8: is that they're spending a lot of money on the

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Speaker 8: regulatory and compliance side just to get things in order,

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Speaker 8: and so City Group probably has the most opportunity for improvement.

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Speaker 8: I think they're delivering on everything that Jane has said.

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Speaker 8: It's just a longer path with Fargo. So again I

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Speaker 8: talked about the regulatory side of things in those claus,

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Speaker 8: but they're I think, hope hopefully for Wells Fargo getting

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Speaker 8: to the end of that journey. It's it's been certainly

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Speaker 8: much longer than people have thought, but again, better net

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Speaker 8: interest income. You know, card is a much smaller business

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Speaker 8: for them, but they're you know, that's been in business

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Speaker 8: that they're investing in and that's been paying off commercial

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Speaker 8: real estate. As I said is they're the biggest lender there,

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Speaker 8: so I think it's prudent that they're taking provisions related

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Speaker 8: to the office, even though that's going to be a

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Speaker 8: long story.

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Speaker 4: Allison, I want to get your thoughts when it comes

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Speaker 4: to banking regulation because we did hear from Fedvice Chair

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Speaker 4: Michael Barr as you know, earlier this week talking about

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Speaker 4: how there could be these potential regulatory changes in on

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Speaker 4: GP Morgan's call this morning, Jeremy Barnum, the CFO at

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Speaker 4: the bank, did receive a question about Basel three, asking

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Speaker 4: about what kind of market consequences and CEO Jamie Diamond

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Speaker 4: was actually warning about in his intro when he's did

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Speaker 4: that these upcoming finalized rules, and Barnum actually did call

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Speaker 4: some of the proposals quote excessive. So I mean, do

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Speaker 4: you think regulators are listening and what is your kind

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Speaker 4: of view of how the banks are thinking about these

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Speaker 4: potential proposals.

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Speaker 8: So I would say two things. So, first of all,

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Speaker 8: I mean the proposals are a long time and coming.

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Speaker 8: I think investors, managements, we all want to know what

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Speaker 8: the rules are so we can sort of, you know,

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Speaker 8: get on with with understanding what the final endgame will be.

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Speaker 8: And that's sort of what they're called the Basil three

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Speaker 8: endgame rules. That being said, we still have sort of

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Speaker 8: this volatility of the ongoing stress tests, So that creates

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Speaker 8: a lot of noise. But the second thing again you'll

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Speaker 8: hear from bank managements and I think bank investors, is

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Speaker 8: you know, the rules are designed to make banks safe,

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Speaker 8: but what are the unintended consequences? How much lending is

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Speaker 8: being pushed out of the system. It's no secret that

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Speaker 8: private credit is really one of the fastest growing areas

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Speaker 8: of asset management, and alternative managers are focusing on this

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Speaker 8: area of the business. Traditional managers are buying into the business.

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Speaker 8: And to the extent that this credit lending is being

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Speaker 8: pushed outside of the banking system, you know that the

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Speaker 8: risks don't go away. It just I guess it's where

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Speaker 8: those risks are.

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Speaker 5: Speaking of risks, one of them earlier this year was

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Speaker 5: from that regional banking crisis, perhaps though it does seem

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Speaker 5: to have dissipated to some degree. JP Morgan seeing a

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Speaker 5: two point seven billion dollar gain in its first Republic purchase.

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Speaker 5: What signals is some of the commentary that we've heard

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Speaker 5: from these executives this morning, sending about you know, other banks,

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Speaker 5: regional banks that are looking to report next week. You know,

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Speaker 5: are there still concerns alive and well in that space,

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Speaker 5: or have we gotten past that.

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Speaker 8: I would say, if anything, perhaps the fears might be

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Speaker 8: quelled a bit. There is, you know, certainly a differential

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Speaker 8: between some of these big banks and some of the

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Speaker 8: regional banks. But I think in general, what we saw

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Speaker 8: even as early as April and with the first quarter

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Speaker 8: reporting season, we did hear most bank management saying things

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Speaker 8: had stabilized, and so we have seen that this quarter

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Speaker 8: as the turmoil sort of subsided and deposits subsided. Investors

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Speaker 8: obviously have focused on the cost of deposits. Those are rising,

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Speaker 8: but again I think a little bit better than feared

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Speaker 8: that we've seen at the big banks. I think one

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Speaker 8: differentiator that we might see a key one for these

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Speaker 8: big banks versus the regional banks is more on the

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Speaker 8: loan side of things, because credit card is really a

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Speaker 8: bunch bigger exposure for City Group, JP, Morgan Wellsbargo to

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Speaker 8: a lesser extent, but still more than some of these

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Speaker 8: regional banks. And what we are seeing is weakness and

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Speaker 8: commercial and industrial balances, loan balances. We saw that in

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Speaker 8: the FED industry data. We're seeing it at the banks,

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Speaker 8: and that may weigh a little bit more on the regionals,

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Speaker 8: and I think, you know, from a broader perspective, back

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Speaker 8: to your point about the bank turmoil is we will

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Speaker 8: be watching deposits. Are these bigger banks continuing to benefit

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Speaker 8: or you know, have things pretty much stabilized for everyone.

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Speaker 8: My guess is it's probably more of.

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Speaker 4: The latter, and for the bigger banks. Next week we

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Speaker 4: have Goldman and obviously Morgan Stanley Bank of America only

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Speaker 4: about thirty seconds left. But what's the big thing you

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Speaker 4: want to watch when it comes to those particular banks For.

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Speaker 8: You know, for a Bank of America, pretty much the

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Speaker 8: highlights I've hit, how is an interest income holding up

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Speaker 8: their cost of deposits and C and I balances, But

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Speaker 8: they might get some benefit from card Goldman and Morgan Stanley.

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Speaker 8: We're really going to see the M and A weakness

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Speaker 8: feed into those results in a negative way. We'll be

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Speaker 8: looking for the equity green shoots. We'll be looking to

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Speaker 8: see what happened with headcount and severance costs that sort

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Speaker 8: of looks to the second half. And then you know,

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Speaker 8: Goldvin Zachs has a few specific things that are going

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Speaker 8: to damp their results, but we'll be looking at their

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Speaker 8: trading to see how that share holds up. And then

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Speaker 8: Morgan Stanley will be looking at the wealth business how

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Speaker 8: the flows look. There's some seasonal issues, but hopefully better

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Speaker 8: than improved from there.

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Speaker 4: Great well. Alison Williams, Senior Global Banks and Asset Manager

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Speaker 4: Analysts with Bloomberg Intelligence. Is always a pleasure having you

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Speaker 4: join us there.

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Speaker 7: You're listening to the tape. Can's our live program Bloomberg

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Speaker 7: Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the

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Speaker 7: tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App.

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Speaker 7: flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

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Speaker 4: Just been in Simoon Foxman here in the Bloomberg Interactive

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Speaker 4: Broker Studio. We're going to change things up next and

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Speaker 4: talk about student loan forgiveness, and we're gonna have Janet Lauren,

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Speaker 4: higher education finance reporter here with Bloomberg News joining us

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Speaker 4: on zoom to talk talk about this and especially looking

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Speaker 4: at the Biden administration set to forgive thirty nine billion

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Speaker 4: dollars in student debt. This does come after the Supreme

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Speaker 4: Court did strike down that broader debt forgiveness plan. So

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Speaker 4: talk to us Janet about this and kind of break

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Speaker 4: it down. What's the latest on this news here?

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Speaker 9: Great, Hi, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 10: So this is a little bit different than the what

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Speaker 10: was being proposed that the Supreme Court shut down. This

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Speaker 10: was sort of administrative changes to a longstanding program called

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Speaker 10: income These are all income based repayment programs, and it

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Speaker 10: targets borrowers who are having trouble paying off their loans.

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Speaker 9: And the issue here is, you know, if you look

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Speaker 9: and look at these income based repayment programs are kind

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Speaker 9: of confusing that there's a lot of red tape you

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Speaker 9: have to show you've made payments. And this was in

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Speaker 9: some ways a little bit of a surgical strike updating,

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Speaker 9: more of a technical requirement. And it's quite an effects

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Speaker 9: quite a number of bar quite a higher number of borrowers,

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Speaker 9: more than eight hundred thousand, and you know, it forgives

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Speaker 9: thirty nine billion in student loans. But this isn't, you know,

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Speaker 9: an automatic forgiveness. These borrowers have been making payments for

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Speaker 9: quite a long time.

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Speaker 5: Tell me about the impact of this in comparison to

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Speaker 5: the broader plan that the Biden administration had tried to

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Speaker 5: push through. Give me a sense of scale.

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Speaker 9: So the whole federal student loan program we're talking about

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Speaker 9: roughly one point seven trillion dollars, and that impacts everybody

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Speaker 9: for decades who've been borrowing student loans. It also includes

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Speaker 9: parents who've taken out parent plus loans. And that forgiveness

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Speaker 9: would have given ten thousand dollars to borrowers twenty thousand

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Speaker 9: if you had a PEL grant, which is aimed at

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Speaker 9: low income students during college, and that was a one

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Speaker 9: time forgiveness, and critics you know, said, you know, perhaps

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Speaker 9: it's unfair to people who've already paid back their loans,

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Speaker 9: but it also doesn't really fix the overall problem of

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Speaker 9: college costs continuing to grow up, to go up and

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Speaker 9: up and up. And this sort of a surgical strike

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Speaker 9: really addresses a program that barrowars have been making payments

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Speaker 9: for and income there's a bunch of income driven repayment programs.

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Speaker 9: I think there may be as many as a half

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Speaker 9: a dozen, and they're confusing, and you know, and this

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Speaker 9: allows payments that people have made to count towards these forgiveness,

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Speaker 9: which is twenty or twenty five years and these income

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Speaker 9: driven payments are calculated based on your income. You have

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Speaker 9: to reapply every year. You may not be paying anything.

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Speaker 9: And as students start to think about repayment, which begins

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Speaker 9: October first, they may want to learn more about these

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Speaker 9: programs to see if they're eligible that they may not

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Speaker 9: have to make any payment at all when the repayment

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Speaker 9: plan starts in October.

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Speaker 4: All right, Janet, So myself along with millions of others

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Speaker 4: who have a student debt here if we want to

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Speaker 4: figure out how we qualify, especially when it comes to

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Speaker 4: a lot of these income driven repayment plans that you're

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Speaker 4: walking us through. What's the best way to figure it out?

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Speaker 4: Just call up your servicer?

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Speaker 9: Well, good, great question. So the services are the ones

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Speaker 9: that are going to be getting information about repayment. However,

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Speaker 9: you could actually go right now to f S a

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Speaker 9: Federal student aid and log on and go through the

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Speaker 9: whole website and figure out what you might qualify for.

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Speaker 9: There's a lot of information you could do now before

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Speaker 9: you even hear from your servicer. So that's what I

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Speaker 9: would recommend because the plans are kind of complicated they are,

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Speaker 9: and bar wars just make it a big headache. Trying

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Speaker 9: to understand it, but at least go through there. You know,

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Speaker 9: look at the website, look at the plans and if

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Speaker 9: you've never you know, there's something like seven or eight

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Speaker 9: million people who've actually never made a payment because they've

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Speaker 9: graduated from college in the last three three and a

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Speaker 9: half years. Go into the student loan site register, get

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Speaker 9: more information so you know exactly what you have. It's

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Speaker 9: you know, if you if you're taking out a loan

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Speaker 9: every year in college, you have chances are eight loans.

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Speaker 9: They may all have different interest rates, and it's quite

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Speaker 9: confusing to keep track of everything.

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Speaker 4: Who do you think gets left out of this?

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Speaker 9: Well, this particular program is for people who have already left,

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Speaker 9: who've been already in these income driven payment programs, So

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Speaker 9: they're aimed at struggling borrowers, people who maybe are underpaid,

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Speaker 9: they haven't had jobs and h and that's who these

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Speaker 9: are are aimed towards. You know, it's all going to

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Speaker 9: depend again on your income. And if you sign up

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Speaker 9: and just look at the at the department pages, you'll

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Speaker 9: get a better sense of who who these are targeted for.

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Speaker 5: Jennet, talk to me about how this fits into the

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Speaker 5: overall bid administration plan looking forward about trying to forgive

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Speaker 5: student debt. Are we going to see more piecemeal sort

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Speaker 5: of developments at this after that unfavorable Supreme Court ruling

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Speaker 5: or will we see is this just preparing us for

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Speaker 5: a bigger push?

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Speaker 9: Well, yes, you absolutely are going to see more of

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Speaker 9: these because there are ways to sort of look at

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Speaker 9: these these programs. In particular, in the press release that

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Speaker 9: the Biden administration said out earlier today, they talked about

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Speaker 9: forgiveness that borrowers have already received, such as forty five

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Speaker 9: billion through people who've worked through the Public Service Loan

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Speaker 9: Forgiveness program. That's a program where you make payments for

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Speaker 9: ten years and you work in public service or nonprofit

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Speaker 9: and you get forgiveness after ten years. But again, this

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Speaker 9: has been a really complicated program. They've made a lot

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Speaker 9: of changes to make it easier. I think before these changes,

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Speaker 9: something like the number of people who got forgiveness were

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Speaker 9: extremely low because it's again the keyword is it becomes

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Speaker 9: very confusing. You know, if you switch jobs and you

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Speaker 9: haven't signed up and you haven't and you know made

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Speaker 9: all the changes, or your employer has it you made

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Speaker 9: up qualified and then they also forgiven twenty two billion

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Speaker 9: dollars for more than a million barrowers. Who were you

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Speaker 9: cheated by schools or their schools? Right? And these are

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Speaker 9: typically for profit colleges. And then you owed these thirty

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Speaker 9: nine billion and you know it's not a small mound

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Speaker 9: of money for loan forgiveness.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, I think.

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Speaker 4: Well, thanks so much for joining us. Janet Lauren, higher

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Speaker 4: education finance reporter with Bloomberg News, joining us to talk

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Speaker 4: about President Biden today announcing this another move when it

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Speaker 4: comes to forgive student loan forgiveness.

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Speaker 7: You're listening to the teenth Cancer Live program Bloomberg Markets

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Speaker 7: weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, the

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Speaker 7: iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business App, or listen on

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Speaker 7: demand wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 4: Jessminton here with Simone Foxman in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker Studio,

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Speaker 4: and I want to get straight to our next guest.

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Speaker 4: Ifan Davitt, CIO at Monique joins us to talk about

437
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 4: this week's inflation data. When we're looking at consumer CPI

438
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 4: as well as producer prices along with the latest on

439
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,119
Speaker 4: the outlook when it comes to all things with markets

440
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,119
Speaker 4: and Investing. Thank you so much for joining us. I

441
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 4: wanted to start off and just kind of get your

442
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 4: view and your take of the latest market action today

443
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 4: in the equity market on the back of these bank

444
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 4: results and the earnings from JK. P. Morgan and others,

445
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:27,400
Speaker 4: when it comes to city that's dragging a little things

446
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 4: a little bit lower. In the financial sector.

447
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 11: Well, the financial sector has really probably not had the

448
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 11: attention it deserves given what a hotbed of chaos it

449
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,199
Speaker 11: was in the first quarter, and towards the end of

450
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 11: that it did seem that that regional bank crisis got

451
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 11: swept under the carpet a little and it wasn't fully

452
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 11: understood how that was going to ripple through the economy.

453
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 11: So I think it's appropriate we saw in the last

454
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 11: few weeks the significant write downs by the likes of

455
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 11: Bank of America and just this bond market has taken

456
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 11: its toll on bank stocks, and what we can see

457
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,120
Speaker 11: from the REAIS banking sector, it's just how exposed they

458
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 11: are to quite a fickle consumer and depositor essentially when

459
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,879
Speaker 11: trouble starts to brew. So we've always suggested that it

460
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 11: would take some time to really fully understand what kind

461
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 11: of problems the banking sector was facing. And when we

462
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 11: see these kind of very mixed picture coming out of banks,

463
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 11: you know, certainly some we're seeing a bit of a

464
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:23,399
Speaker 11: pickup and some trading and assets are asset pools are

465
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,880
Speaker 11: growing thanks to equity markets. It's only natural that investors

466
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,880
Speaker 11: will start to try to dissect that pick and choose

467
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,680
Speaker 11: where the opportunities are. So I'd say, we're not seen

468
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 11: the end of this banking crisis yet. So that's why

469
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 11: it didn't surprise me that there's a little bit of

470
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 11: I suppose, just a little bit of just a delay

471
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 11: in terms of processing that's less exuberant than we might expect.

472
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,119
Speaker 5: Even so you're saying, not the end of the banking

473
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 5: crisis yet, How do you expect to see this play

474
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,199
Speaker 5: out when we get some of the regional banks, some

475
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 5: of the other banks come report their results next week.

476
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 11: Well, certainly there is a lagging effect always in these

477
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 11: bank results. We only know at the end of the

478
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 11: quarter how deposits had moved, and we only know then,

479
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 11: of course when what write downs if any, are being

480
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,640
Speaker 11: taken on a fixed income book. So with the FEDS

481
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,399
Speaker 11: looking set to continue its increase in rates, that's going

482
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 11: to still put pressure on some of these securities holdings.

483
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,640
Speaker 11: This was perhaps an unintended consequence of the steepest rate

484
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 11: rise trajectory we've seen in recent history, but it was

485
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,360
Speaker 11: not unanticipated. It should have been anticipated that this would

486
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 11: take its toll somewhere after the bear market we had

487
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 11: in bonds last year. So what I expect is and

488
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:35,880
Speaker 11: we can see that regional banks have seen no pickup.

489
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 11: We've seen no bottom fishing almost whatsoever within those banks

490
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:43,399
Speaker 11: since the trouble started brewing back in February March. So

491
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 11: I say that indicates that investors are very happy to

492
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 11: send us sidelines when it comes to financials today and

493
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 11: will remain on those sidelines. Is more than enough to

494
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:55,880
Speaker 11: attract them elsewhere in the equity sectors that are looking

495
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,920
Speaker 11: more promising out of more upside today. So I expect

496
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 11: a very low level of enthusiasm around financials. And as

497
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 11: far as what the regional banks are likely to come

498
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 11: out with, I think it's going to be challenging. I

499
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 11: think they may spin it in different ways, but it

500
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 11: will be challenging.

501
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 4: So then, how are you advising clients to position at

502
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 4: this point? Where do you think they should put their money.

503
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 11: We have always had a very it's almost like our

504
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,199
Speaker 11: message doesn't change. We talk about core exposures. We like

505
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 11: to have exposures across growth and value segments. We like

506
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 11: exposures that are international in flavor, that include emerging markets,

507
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:33,120
Speaker 11: develop markets X US, and of course a very strong

508
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 11: core allocation to the US. None of that changes, so

509
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 11: we're still quite keen on that, and I'd say what

510
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 11: we're advising is to look at the underlove sectors. Everyone's

511
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 11: talking about the top seven stocks today, those stocks that

512
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 11: are really showing and lifting the market almost single handedly,

513
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 11: those seven. Everything else is lagging and is very lack

514
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 11: lust to year today. Since the numbers are better than expected,

515
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 11: the consumer, the economy, everything's stronger than expected, we think

516
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 11: that that good will should trickle down across sectors. So

517
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 11: we'd expect that other sectors will start to participate more

518
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 11: and more now. And they're therefore for our clients were saying,

519
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 11: stay invested in core, stay balanced, don't neglect value. Look

520
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 11: at the less perhaps exciting sectors today, less momentum, but

521
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 11: around healthcare industrials, consumer staples, that's where we think the

522
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 11: next leg of this rally will happen now.

523
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 5: Even you mentioned healthcare there in addition to the fact

524
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 5: that you are quite healthy. Have run a fun fact

525
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 5: here our producer pointing out fifty one marathons.

526
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 3: Amazing.

527
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 4: Wow.

528
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 6: So hopefully you.

529
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 5: Do not have to rest on the services of the

530
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 5: likes of United Health. The health insurer reporting today had

531
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 5: talked up these these rising costs in it the potential

532
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 5: for rising costs people going back and getting all the

533
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 5: elective procedures that they had put off during the pandemic.

534
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 5: What's your thesis there if healthcare is something that's among

535
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 5: your winners sector wise.

536
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 11: It's interesting there are certainly healthcare has undergoing transformation, just

537
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 11: like many other industries, and certainly there may be this

538
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 11: imbalanced post COVID of as you mentioned elective surgeries. I

539
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 11: thankfully haven't needed anything were to be replaced yet, thank you,

540
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 11: But I couldn't traveline if I continue beating the bidding

541
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 11: the sidewalk. But so that that one is one thing

542
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 11: that perhaps an anomaly that will work its way through.

543
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 11: But with the advent of digital health, with more telemedicine

544
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 11: and particularly AI, and nobody's really paying a huge amount

545
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 11: of attention to just how much AI is going to

546
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 11: transform the healthcare industry, transform the insurance industry. I've spoken

547
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 11: about financials before. We focused on banks, but when you

548
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 11: look at more broad financials, insurers are overall winners here

549
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 11: in the current transsition to use of AI and bigger

550
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 11: data because they can calculate with much more precision the

551
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 11: risk involved in their insurance, and they can take this

552
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 11: data and use it to do better underwriting. They do

553
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 11: also have a certain amount of pricing power. As we

554
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 11: all know, we're not exactly when it comes to negotiating

555
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 11: our car insurance, our house insurance. We're not always in

556
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 11: a position of strength. It's usually the insurers that have

557
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 11: that pricing power. So they're saying really strong margins being protected.

558
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 11: Digital health, of course, will ultimately drive costs down. If

559
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 11: we can use our telemedicine, if we can have more

560
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 11: control in the holder, in the patient of their health care,

561
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 11: less reliance and expensive services, that trajectory is deflationary, we

562
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 11: believe for healthcare. However, yes, in the short term there

563
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 11: probably will be the spike, which is the post COVID

564
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 11: reckoning that we're seeing in other sectors.

565
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 4: To you brought up industrials, which I think is interesting

566
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 4: because when you look at that particular group in the

567
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 4: S and P. Five hundred, it's actually trading at records,

568
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 4: and that's a particular group that, as you know, cyclically oriented,

569
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,959
Speaker 4: very tied to the health of the economy. What do

570
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 4: you think this tells us about the trajectory of the

571
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 4: equity mortgage as well as how that tie in to

572
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 4: economic growth.

573
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 11: Well, this is the economy that is proving to be

574
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 11: surprisingly resilient, and I think it's really bucking many commentators

575
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 11: expectations as to just when this recession, if whatever comes,

576
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 11: will come. And in a way, it's almost an unbreakable economy.

577
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 11: I wrote a piece today about how it is almost

578
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 11: anti fragile to borrow Nasim Teleb's phrase in the sense

579
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 11: that no matter what monetary policy or physical policy throws

580
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 11: at it, the economy continues to be resilient. And I'd

581
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 11: say that I've also been hearing that there is an

582
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 11: unprecedented amount of capital on the sidelines on company balance

583
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 11: sheets to be spent on capex. Ways in some ways

584
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 11: it's compared to post war spending. Not only do we

585
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 11: have this pent up demand for spending because there hasn't

586
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 11: been much during COVID, but also things like the Inflation

587
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 11: Reduction Act and the stimulus packages which are providing incentives

588
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 11: to invest in those technologies that are tied to the

589
00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 11: transition economy. All of this bodes very well for ustrials.

590
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 11: AI is going to require tremendous investment in facilities, in

591
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 11: chemicals and stuff and batteries, et cetera, and that's all

592
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 11: going to bode well. So this is the trickle down effect.

593
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 11: The first layer has been in tech stocks, where you

594
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 11: could naturally expect that we'd have more in terms of

595
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 11: the in terms of the AI height cycle. But now

596
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 11: it's going to actually be implemented and the investments are

597
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 11: going to happen. And just like cybersecurity is a non

598
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 11: negotiable part of a corporate spending trajectory, right now, we're

599
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 11: going to see investments in technology non negotiable and that

600
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 11: all bodes well for the component makers.

601
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, so looking beyond the semiconductors, the hot names, the NVIDIAs,

602
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 5: you know, even we only have about thirty seconds here,

603
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 5: but talk to me. We've seen some contradictory indicators, one

604
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 5: of them being housing about where the future of the

605
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 5: economy goes. Your quick thoughts, because we get some big

606
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 5: numbers next week, what do you expect to see?

607
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 11: Yeah, housing is it, as you said, a mixed indicator.

608
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 11: We have the some of the highest mortgage rates we've

609
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 11: seen in decades back to their peaks, but that doesn't

610
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 11: seem to be biting the consumer. Many locked in their

611
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 11: rates at lower levels. And we can also see this

612
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,240
Speaker 11: quite a mixed picture. We've seen the average price falling,

613
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 11: but yet demand and housing starts rising, and that of

614
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 11: course indicates how just how checkered this market is in

615
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,640
Speaker 11: that some of the hot segments say that the Nashville's

616
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 11: of Florida that will actually be be quite strong. I'm

617
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 11: here in the Midwest in Chicago, we might see some

618
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 11: of our pricing a little softer. So it's going to

619
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 11: be mixed, definitely. With the post COVID economy, we're still

620
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,279
Speaker 11: seeing a strong demand for people to live in those

621
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 11: houses with those home offices. And I think within the

622
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 11: real estate segment office is the sick six sector right now,

623
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:45,280
Speaker 11: residential is quite robust.

624
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 5: Ethan, thank you for giving us such a broad outlook

625
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 5: on so many sectors where we head with the US economy.

626
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 5: We really appreciate it. That's Ethan deviit Cio at Moneta

627
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:03,800
Speaker 5: with AUM seven billion dollars, managing the money, looking at

628
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 5: the markets, and some interesting thoughts there on housing, particularly

629
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:09,879
Speaker 5: as we head into a big week of data.

630
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:12,760
Speaker 7: You're listening to the tape can to our live program

631
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:16,760
Speaker 7: Bloomberg Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio,

632
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 7: the tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg

633
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,760
Speaker 7: Business app. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa

634
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 7: from our flagship New York station Just Say Alexa playing

635
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 7: Bloomberg eleven thirty and our.

636
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 4: Next guest, doctor Lisa Breno, who is the president of

637
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 4: Defense Metals, who's discussing the significance of China banning rare

638
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 4: earth exports and how it affects the US and production

639
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 4: around the world. Joining us on zoom and please can

640
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 4: you set the scene for us and explain why is

641
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:49,240
Speaker 4: China banning rare earth metal exports at this point?

642
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,959
Speaker 6: Thank you, Thank you very much for having me so.

643
00:35:55,280 --> 00:36:02,240
Speaker 6: China has essentially said they are planning to pose export

644
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 6: restrictions on some rare metals, specifically gallium and germanium, which

645
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 6: are critical for semiconductor applications. To make chips effectively. So

646
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 6: they have not yet imposed export restrictions on other rare

647
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 6: metals such as earth elements, which we Defense Metals are

648
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 6: planning to produce. Those are critical for applications for green

649
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 6: applications like electric vehicles and wind turbines. But it seems

650
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:40,320
Speaker 6: that the fact that China is imposing some restrictions now

651
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:45,239
Speaker 6: on semiconductors, it is highly likely that they would have

652
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:52,320
Speaker 6: the power certainly and potentially they might also impose restrictions

653
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 6: on rare earth.

654
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:55,880
Speaker 5: You know what's interesting here, as we've seen in the

655
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 5: last couple of days according to a Shanghai metals market

656
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 5: to report their researcher in the space, that there was

657
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,759
Speaker 5: sort of a rush for overseas buyers to buy up

658
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,840
Speaker 5: as much Chinese gallium as they could, and then that

659
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,280
Speaker 5: sort of dissipated. What's your take, what have you heard

660
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 5: from folks that are looking to buy these sorts of metals.

661
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 6: So usually these minor metals, they they are applied in

662
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 6: small quantities. You know, the volumes of sales are also

663
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 6: significantly lower compared for instance, with iron ore, which is

664
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 6: in the billions of times, and and so they they

665
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:43,280
Speaker 6: tend to buy them and keep them in advance for

666
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 6: for threes to six months or more sometimes and so

667
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 6: probably that's what we saw. So they went in they

668
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:54,319
Speaker 6: with the news. They they some some some traders and

669
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 6: some end users might have a stockpiled a little bit

670
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 6: more to extend whatever, you know, stock else they already have,

671
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 6: which led to an increase in the price of gallium,

672
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 6: and now they might just perhaps sit back and see

673
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:12,720
Speaker 6: how this I guess right now a threat from China

674
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 6: will play out, and how US and the rest of

675
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:18,319
Speaker 6: the world will respond to that.

676
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 4: And when you're talking about these potential chip curbs, my

677
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 4: ears perked up because as an equities reporter here at Bloomberg, obviously,

678
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 4: if you look at the Nasdaq one hundred up more

679
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 4: than forty percent, a lot of this was used to

680
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 4: buy AI in recent months. Not just that, but also

681
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,880
Speaker 4: some margin when it comes to cost cutting pressures that

682
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 4: have helped some of those companies. But when you think

683
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 4: about AI in the companies you brought up ev makers

684
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 4: and then these semiconductor type companies that obviously have a

685
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 4: broad exposure overseas, what do you think this means for them?

686
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 4: After this massive rally that we've seen, especially in the

687
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 4: chip space.

688
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 6: Well, it seems that there has been some issues with

689
00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 6: the supply of chips in the last couple of years,

690
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 6: especially since since COVID so this export ban. Considering that

691
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,840
Speaker 6: China produces most of the galum in the world, I

692
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 6: believe more than ninety percent. If if they will impose

693
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 6: export restrictions, that means that many of these companies are

694
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 6: not going to have access to the basic material that

695
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 6: they need to make to make those chips. So that

696
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 6: will lead to potentially an increase in prices for these

697
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 6: chips and supply issues, and so it just will mean that,

698
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:37,279
Speaker 6: you know, the same problems we saw before. Automakers are

699
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 6: not going to be able to make certain models, and

700
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 6: and uh, you know, and folks and the tele communications

701
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 6: smartphone smartphone producers and others might have a hard time

702
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 6: producing their products.

703
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 5: You know, we have some reporting out suggesting that these

704
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 5: export controls could potentially backfire. Your take on that.

705
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 6: Backfire for for China?

706
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:07,919
Speaker 5: For China, yes, that I suppose other countries will ramp

707
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 5: up their production to the extent that they can that

708
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:13,799
Speaker 5: it may hurt trade overall. What's your take?

709
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,920
Speaker 6: I think China is more concerned about having access to

710
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:22,439
Speaker 6: advanced chips right now and and equipment that they need

711
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:27,840
Speaker 6: to make them as well than the supply of gallium.

712
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:31,839
Speaker 6: So I think they they understand that it will take

713
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 6: time for the rest of the world to be able

714
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 6: to produce the gallium and the gallium product products like

715
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 6: gallium arsenide that we need for for for to make

716
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 6: these advanced chips. So it is it will take time

717
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,360
Speaker 6: for the rest of the world to be able to

718
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 6: ramp up production of gallium and then build the supply

719
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 6: chain to be able to produce these finished products that

720
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 6: are critical for semi conductors. So the situation for China

721
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 6: is already critical for them as far as having access

722
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 6: to this equipment to make chips, advanced chips, and the

723
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 6: chips you know as well that there are produced in

724
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 6: the Netherlands in the United States.

725
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 5: Lisa, thanks so much for breaking this down for us.

726
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:26,360
Speaker 5: That's doctor Lisa Moreno, President of Defense Medals Corp, discussing

727
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 5: the significance of some of these China moves, and interestingly,

728
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:33,720
Speaker 5: the OECD has warned that these expert restrictions may actually

729
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:39,600
Speaker 5: threaten the green transition. Very interesting stuff, as these China

730
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 5: tensions with the US seem to ramp up.

731
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:45,279
Speaker 7: You're listening to the tape. Can's our live program Bloomberg

732
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 7: Markets weekdays at ten am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the

733
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 7: tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App.

734
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 7: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

735
00:41:55,080 --> 00:42:00,120
Speaker 7: flagship New York station, Just Say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty.

736
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 4: Jessminton and Simone Foxman here once again in the Bloomberg

737
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 4: Interactive Brokers Studio. And I always love this segment, the

738
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 4: c Suite Conversations, that really gets into the notes and

739
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 4: bolts of especially when you think about what's going on

740
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 4: with the Fortune five hundred. So, who want to get

741
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 4: straight to our next guest, Tiger Tia Garajen, CEO of

742
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 4: gin Pack, that's ticker Simple G for our terminal users,

743
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 4: who's joining us in studio on this Friday, which is

744
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:26,400
Speaker 4: very exciting. Always great to have someone in the studio

745
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 4: to discuss his company as well as AI's emergence. And

746
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 4: I want to take a step back first to sort

747
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:35,279
Speaker 4: of show us the landscape of what your company does

748
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 4: in who you work with, because I know you are

749
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 4: working with a number of big Fortune five hundred companies.

750
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:42,759
Speaker 3: Great, thank you for having me here.

751
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:45,360
Speaker 12: And the way we would describe our company is a

752
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,480
Speaker 12: professional services firm that works with about three quarters of

753
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 12: the Fortune five hundred companies. So think about a consumer

754
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:54,799
Speaker 12: goods company, a retailer, large banks, large insurance companies, and

755
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 12: what we do for them is basically processing their finance,

756
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:04,320
Speaker 12: their precurement, their supply chain, the flow of information to

757
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 12: make orders get delivered, to make inventory come down, to

758
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:14,360
Speaker 12: reduce cash flow requirements, to improve working capital, to reduce fraud,

759
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 12: and insurance claims. We process insurance claims, we process insurance applications.

760
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 12: That's the work that we do, and we do it

761
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 12: in a very consolidated way. What then allows us to

762
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:25,400
Speaker 12: bring technology to improve the way it gets done and

763
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 12: deliver better outcomes.

764
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 5: So essentially the grunt work of doing a lot of well,

765
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 5: well you know, I mean, it means that somebody does

766
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 5: not have to sit there and open their email or

767
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 5: we hear we've heard over the last earnings season, every

768
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 5: time a CEO would say AI on an earnings call,

769
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 5: it felt like, you know, suddenly the shares had popped.

770
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 4: Or even Kroger mentioned it eight times, So not even

771
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 4: just tech companies anywhere, and talk to.

772
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:56,440
Speaker 5: Me about what you've been hearing. When you've heard, you know,

773
00:43:56,520 --> 00:44:00,319
Speaker 5: these executives talk about AI. Are they talking about stuff

774
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 5: that is going to meaningfully impact and change their business today,

775
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:07,319
Speaker 5: tomorrow or perhaps the next year.

776
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:09,480
Speaker 3: So it's a great question, Simon.

777
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 12: So the good news that for us is that not

778
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:14,319
Speaker 12: only do we listen to them when they come on

779
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 12: to Bloomberg Radio and talk, but we actually meet them

780
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:19,760
Speaker 12: a lot.

781
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:20,720
Speaker 3: Because we serve them.

782
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:24,359
Speaker 12: And I would say, clearly, there is hype, so let's

783
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 12: be clear, this is a hype. However it's real. And

784
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 12: you know, the way I would think about it is

785
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:33,319
Speaker 12: that if you think about the cell phone and iPhone,

786
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 12: if you think about the Internet, those were hypes but

787
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 12: it did end up being real. So, like any hype,

788
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:42,839
Speaker 12: in the short term, I think we are overestimating its impact.

789
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:44,919
Speaker 12: But in the medium term, and the medium term could

790
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 12: not be more than a couple of years, we have

791
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 12: maybe underestimating the impact.

792
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:51,240
Speaker 3: And that's what every conversation with the CEOs say.

793
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:54,839
Speaker 4: Well, we're talking about overestimating the impact from what perspective

794
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 4: as far as what about from a stock market perspective?

795
00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:00,320
Speaker 4: When you've seen how much particular chip makers have moved

796
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,880
Speaker 4: move on a lot of this hype. Is that something

797
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 4: that you think has been overdone or do you think

798
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 4: it's more not from that perspective, but from maybe even

799
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 4: more fundamental perspective.

800
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:11,840
Speaker 12: Yeah, I'm assuming that the stock market moves less on

801
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:15,719
Speaker 12: short term and more on long term. So therefore it

802
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:19,759
Speaker 12: might actually be the right move because computing needs, you know,

803
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:22,480
Speaker 12: therefore semi connective needs. Therefore power of all of that

804
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 12: is going to the demand for that is certainly going

805
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 12: to go up a lot. For our clients, it typically

806
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:30,880
Speaker 12: boils down to where's the biggest impact I can deliver

807
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 12: and what do I need to make that happen. Clearly,

808
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:36,920
Speaker 12: large language models and AI models are very important, but

809
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 12: guess what you need data, And if you talk to

810
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:45,320
Speaker 12: typical large enterprises, that data is distributed, it's fragmented, it's corrupted,

811
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 12: it's not clean. So there's a lot of effort that

812
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 12: needs to bring that together to then be able to

813
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 12: build and feed the algorithms that then deliver great value.

814
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:58,919
Speaker 12: And I think most CEOs understand that. However, they also

815
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 12: know that once they get that together, then it's real value.

816
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:07,319
Speaker 12: It's improving their revenue, it's improving their customer satisfaction, it's

817
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:10,680
Speaker 12: improving their ability to serve their customers on time and full.

818
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 5: Is most of the work that you're doing on the

819
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 5: back end from the company perspective, or is any of

820
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 5: this as much of this and how much are you

821
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:22,080
Speaker 5: seeing this increase on the consumer facing end?

822
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 12: So someone actually, interestingly, you know, our business about half

823
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 12: of it faces the.

824
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:29,880
Speaker 3: Front of our client's businesses.

825
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:34,400
Speaker 12: So if you think about a retailer, large retailers placing

826
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:39,360
Speaker 12: an order for cheese or for chocolate, then how quickly

827
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 12: can that order get delivered? Can there ort to be

828
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:45,840
Speaker 12: delivered not only quickly, but exactly the way it was ordered?

829
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:49,840
Speaker 12: And can you make sure that it gets delivered with

830
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,360
Speaker 12: a high degree of efficiency of delivery in terms of

831
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:55,839
Speaker 12: transportation cost logistics or by the way, these days, can

832
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 12: you actually make sure that you don't burn up too

833
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 12: much carbon when you're moving trucks across and how do

834
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:03,279
Speaker 12: you optimize all of that? How do you build algorithms

835
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:05,920
Speaker 12: and models that actually deliver that. Once you do that,

836
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 12: the consumer goods company expects to be paid on time.

837
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 12: So if you think about that whole cycle, that's all

838
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 12: in the front end. When done well, everyone is thrilled.

839
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:19,879
Speaker 12: So this is about driving growth and customer satisfaction because

840
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:22,200
Speaker 12: then that cheese is available when the consumer walks into

841
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 12: the retailer.

842
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:26,399
Speaker 4: I wanted to actually switch it up because I wanted

843
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 4: to get your perspective on a key emerging market when

844
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:30,600
Speaker 4: it comes to India. That's something that we've discussed a

845
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:33,319
Speaker 4: lot on this program. What are your thoughts as for

846
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:36,239
Speaker 4: as just how big of a player that has been

847
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:38,120
Speaker 4: for a lot of especially big companies.

848
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:43,000
Speaker 12: It's huge for us from a talent perspective. Let's start

849
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 12: with that more than forty percent of our talent, close

850
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 12: to fifty percent of our talent is based on India.

851
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 12: And that goes back to the history of the company

852
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 12: when we were part of g when we set up

853
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:59,840
Speaker 12: this operation as an extension of GE to serve global

854
00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 12: g from India. Now we deliver those services from thirty

855
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:05,840
Speaker 12: five countries across the globe. So India is incredibly important,

856
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:08,279
Speaker 12: but so are many other countries. The talent pool is

857
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 12: India is incredibly important as we go into the future.

858
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:15,879
Speaker 12: The fact that you have a younger demographic and when

859
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 12: they come out, they are hungry to learn, and we

860
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:22,000
Speaker 12: are in a world where learning and reskilling is going

861
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:25,399
Speaker 12: to be the ticket to everyone's party. So we use

862
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:27,240
Speaker 12: that and leverage that for our clients, and our clients

863
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 12: understand that there is a different perspective about India being

864
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:34,440
Speaker 12: a market itself and that demographic population creates a real opportunity.

865
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:37,320
Speaker 12: And the third one is how much can India becoming

866
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:40,920
Speaker 12: a manufacturer base to diversify out of just being focused

867
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:41,440
Speaker 12: on China.

868
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:44,760
Speaker 5: We have about a minute here. We've seen this dramatic

869
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 5: one up and shares and things like Nvidia, the demand

870
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 5: for semiconductors right now, it feels like an exuberance, but

871
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:58,799
Speaker 5: how significant do you think this will be having more

872
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:04,320
Speaker 5: semiconductors these put parts? Is the is the dramatic rally

873
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:05,280
Speaker 5: we've seen warranted.

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Speaker 12: So again, I'll give you a longer term perspective some

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Speaker 12: on because you know, I'm not here to predict and crystal.

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Speaker 3: Ball, but your best sense, this is real, This is real.

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Speaker 3: AI is real.

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Speaker 12: AI will need computing power, AI will need data, a

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00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:20,719
Speaker 12: I will need change in organizations, a I will need

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00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:23,839
Speaker 12: reskilling of people. Anyone who's engaged in any of these

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Speaker 12: topics is really going to create value for themselves, for

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00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 12: their shareholders, for their customers, and actually to improve society.

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00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 12: The fact that you can have people leverage education and

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00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:35,319
Speaker 12: healthcare at almost zero costs, which is going to become

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00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 12: real overtime, is something to really look forward to.

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00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 4: Well, thank you so much for joining us. It's such

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Speaker 4: a great perspective to get things on not just emerging markets,

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00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 4: but then also about whether AI is just hyper if

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Speaker 4: there's more to it here. So really great to get

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Speaker 4: your perspective as well as the Fortune five hundred companies

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Speaker 4: that you work with.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can

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Speaker 1: subscribe and listen to interviews in Apple Podcasts or whatever

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00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:04,520
Speaker 1: podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter

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Speaker 1: at Matt Miller nineteen seventy three. And I'm fall Sweeney.

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Speaker 8: I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney.

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Speaker 1: Before the podcast, you can always catch us worldwide at

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio