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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to

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Speaker 1: the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much

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Speaker 1: for tuning in. Let's give a special shout out to

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Speaker 1: our guest super producer Paul Wygo Decands.

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Speaker 2: For whom the bell tolls decand Yes, as an alternative.

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Speaker 1: I'm Ben Bowling, You're Old Brown. We have a very

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Speaker 1: strange series for you today, folks. For a while, long

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Speaker 1: time listeners to both this and our show stuff they

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Speaker 1: don't want you to know. You may have noticed that

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Speaker 1: NOL and our good buddy Max Williams and I have

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Speaker 1: been going through kind of a phase. We go through

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Speaker 1: phases with fascinations, right.

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Speaker 2: Sure, Yeah, fascination phases, the.

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Speaker 1: Fascination phases, which does feel like an album name for

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Speaker 1: a group you would have at some point.

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Speaker 2: Like a new wave band.

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Speaker 3: I guess I'm thinking of Fascination Street by The Cure,

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Speaker 3: but Fascination Phases maybe would be by the Human League,

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Speaker 3: perhaps along those lines.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And one of our phases recently is the concept of

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Speaker 1: a last meal, if you could have one last meal

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Speaker 1: before you died, if you knew you had one final

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Speaker 1: nach before you passed.

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Speaker 2: From this mortal plane. What would you pick?

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Speaker 3: And Noel Spaghetti speak Spaghetti, did not miss your chance

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Speaker 3: to be there?

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Speaker 2: It's worth it, Uh, Noel.

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Speaker 1: I I feel like I owe a lot of our

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Speaker 1: colleagues at Apology on this subject because for what a

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Speaker 1: month now maybe more, just been trying to work last

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Speaker 1: meals into conversation.

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Speaker 3: You've definitely been getting people thinking about their own mortality

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Speaker 3: and their food choices, because I think I made the

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Speaker 3: point when we talked about this on air on one

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Speaker 3: show or another, that it tells you a lot about

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Speaker 3: a person, you know, what their last meal might be.

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Speaker 3: One could argue it's more of an arbitrary choice or

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Speaker 3: based on superficial things, but I think, as we'll see

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Speaker 3: in this episode, it can show more than one might think. Agreed.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, this is kind of an almost folkloric idea at

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Speaker 4: this point, and nowadays, I think for most people in

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Speaker 4: the West, it's associated with stories, some true, some fictional,

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Speaker 4: about convicts on death row.

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Speaker 2: But as we will see in this two part.

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Speaker 1: Episode, we're doing it on purpose. The idea of last

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Speaker 1: meals is an ancient tradition. The most famous last meal

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Speaker 1: is the Biblical Last Supper.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yes, immortalized in the famous painting by Leonardo da Vinci.

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Speaker 3: Obviously a scene directly out of the pages of the

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Speaker 3: Old Bible, so lots of other slightly less famous versions.

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Speaker 3: Definitely a bit of an artistic trope, Yeah, because artists

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Speaker 3: in those days we're always kind of beholden to their benefactors,

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Speaker 3: who are usually the Roman Catholic Church or some sort

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Speaker 3: of clergy.

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Speaker 2: Some operative thereof. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The last supper of the alternate title is let's all

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Speaker 1: eat on the same side of the table.

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Speaker 2: It's more convenient, you know, for portraiture purposes.

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Speaker 1: I would say, hey, you know, this has nothing to

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Speaker 1: do with anything, but on that subject, what is you

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Speaker 1: and your partner's stance on eat on sitting on the

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Speaker 1: same side of a booth? You know, like you go

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Speaker 1: to a four top or a booth, do you guys

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Speaker 1: sit across from each other or do you sit well

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Speaker 1: next time?

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Speaker 3: I'm left handed and my partner's right handed, so you

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Speaker 3: run the risk when sitting next to each other of

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Speaker 3: elbow bumping. So I tend to want to sit like

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Speaker 3: on the outside. But yet if it's just the two

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Speaker 3: of us, we'll we'll sit across from each other side sitting.

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Speaker 3: You know, if anyone watches Curb, your enthusiasm can be

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Speaker 3: a bit fraut in and of itself. But yeah, just

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Speaker 3: saving the elbow bumping by just going ahead and sitting

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Speaker 3: on the other side. But then it becomes the question

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Speaker 3: of who gets the chair, and who gets the booth,

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Speaker 3: and who wants their back facing the door, right, It's

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Speaker 3: all really relationships are tough, ben I feel like I

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Speaker 3: feel like the proper choice as a gentleman is to

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Speaker 3: defer to the other person's preference.

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Speaker 1: But we all know back to the intro is the

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Speaker 1: is the worst of the seats.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, you don't want to be caught on awares.

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Speaker 3: Someone could bum rushes the restaurant, you know.

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Speaker 1: And that's how that's how everybody ended up on one

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Speaker 1: side of the table.

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Speaker 3: Must be nobody wanted to Nobody wanted to back to

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Speaker 3: the I mean they're speaking of fraud.

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Speaker 2: I mean these were fraught times.

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Speaker 3: Everyone knew that Jesus was about to be murdered, you know,

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Speaker 3: they they saw the writing on the wall. So that's

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Speaker 3: actually really funny, man. I never thought that aspect of it.

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Speaker 3: I thought it was just a convenient artistic device. But

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Speaker 3: maybe that's how it went down. But however it went down,

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Speaker 3: this is very much representative of, you know, how important

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Speaker 3: food is to us as humans, not just for nourishment,

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Speaker 3: but the idea of enjoying it, of it being something

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Speaker 3: of a luxury once we got past those caveman days

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Speaker 3: where where sustenance was all that was required.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And while the idea of the Biblical Last Supper, and

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Speaker 1: that story may be the most popular example of a

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Speaker 1: famous last meal in the West, we found a fascinating

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Speaker 1: paper by Sarah Gerwig Moore and her colleagues at Mercer

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Speaker 1: University who trace the actual origin the concept of last

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Speaker 1: meals in the West. You can trace it back to

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Speaker 1: ancient Greece, and we'll see it in other cultures as well.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 3: Greek authorities in those days would feed a prisoner something

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Speaker 3: before they were killed, for fear that when they entered

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Speaker 3: the afterlife, or as Prince calls it, the after world

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Speaker 3: the underworld. Let's combine the two that if they did

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Speaker 3: so on an empty stomach, that means that they would

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Speaker 3: have an angry ghost on their hands. Angry ghosts on

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Speaker 3: their hands. Dare we say the idea of hungry ghosts.

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Speaker 3: That's actually kind of a pop cultural trope in and

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Speaker 3: of itself, the idea of a hungry ghost.

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Speaker 2: I think there's a couple of restaurants.

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Speaker 3: I've seen with that name sant Here in Atlanta that

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Speaker 3: used to be pretty popular that was called hungry ghost.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, that it could actually return out of vengeance

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Speaker 3: for having a rumbly tumbly mm hmmm.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what Snickers is talking about. When they say

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Speaker 1: you're not you when you're hungry, they mean you'll return

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Speaker 1: for there.

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Speaker 2: You've been there. Yeah, I've all been there, you know.

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Speaker 3: I mean if I if I have any nods easy

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Speaker 3: to do where like you know, with the busy schedules

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Speaker 3: and busy lives and all the podcasting, you go all

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Speaker 3: day and you forget to even eat a little snack

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Speaker 3: and then your partner gets home and you bite their

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Speaker 3: head off because you're hungry.

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Speaker 2: Yes, okay, that's a real world example. I was.

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Speaker 1: I was for some reason. It's probably a sleep deprivation.

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Speaker 1: I was thinking, Yeah, we've all been there. You're interacting

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Speaker 1: with a ghost and the ghost is agro and you

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Speaker 1: realize it's hungry.

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Speaker 3: And you give it a little snack, just a little

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Speaker 3: little piece of salami just for a treat.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what the Wija board says. So man, I'll

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Speaker 2: tell you my not to de row.

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Speaker 3: But my most formative memory of like candy bar, it's

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Speaker 3: scared the crap out of me when I was a kid.

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Speaker 3: That scene in Gremlin's Part one where the gizmo or

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Speaker 3: whatever has, unbeknownst to the hapless scientists, transmuted or whatever

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Speaker 3: into the evil Gremlin and he sticks his hand inside

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Speaker 3: the little doggy carrier with a candy bar, and you know,

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Speaker 3: cut to screaming face, pained expression because his hand has

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Speaker 3: presumably been bit off. That's a perfect example of the

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Speaker 3: movies where it's so much more effective when they don't

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Speaker 3: show you the violence, right they just show you the

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Speaker 3: aftermath or they kind of leave it to your mind,

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Speaker 3: and it's so much scarier that way. But we're not

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Speaker 3: talking about movie tropes today. We're talking about well, that's

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Speaker 3: not true, definitely, the last meal movie tropes, last words

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Speaker 3: is another example of things that kind of get immortalized

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Speaker 3: in this way.

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Speaker 2: But a lot of.

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Speaker 3: The things people think they know about last meals, like

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Speaker 3: all bets are off, you can have whatever you want.

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Speaker 3: This is a right bestowed upon you given constitutional rights,

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Speaker 3: not exactly the case.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, sir.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of like when we learned that there is

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Speaker 1: actually no law requiring you to have home insurance. I

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Speaker 1: thought last meals were like I thought they were a

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Speaker 1: matter of of litigation.

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Speaker 2: Well they are kind of. We'll see. We know can

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Speaker 2: be can be no, and it can't, but it varies.

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Speaker 3: But that practice that we're talking about continued for millennia,

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Speaker 3: and that story of the Last Supper that we talked

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Speaker 3: about in the context of his time was very recognizable,

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Speaker 3: a real cultural you know, milestone, and to put Jesus

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Speaker 3: in that position almost humanizes Jesus in a very interesting

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Speaker 3: way because it is something that well even Jesus needed

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Speaker 3: to eat, you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I love your pointing this out. In the

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Speaker 1: context of the time in which it occurred, the Biblical

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Speaker 1: Last Supper was a normal thing. It's something people would

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Speaker 1: have been familiar with. And we know that this practice

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Speaker 1: also echoed throughout Europe as a result, you know, as

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Speaker 1: Christianity spreads throughout Europe, this became a cultural touchstone for people.

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Speaker 1: In Germany, authorities often participated in what they call a

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Speaker 1: hangman's meal, and we were talking about this off air

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Speaker 1: a while back because I just think it's surreal and

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Speaker 1: honestly it's a little bit disturbing. But we have a

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Speaker 1: great quote about it from the takeout dot com.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 3: Lawyers, judges, clergy, local dignitaries, and even the executioner presumably

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Speaker 3: wearing his hood or would he take it off, you know,

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Speaker 3: for dinner, would attend what was essentially a feast for

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Speaker 3: the condemned in Nuremberg. Providing an entire roasted goose to

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Speaker 3: the person set to be executed was an established part

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Speaker 3: of this tradition.

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Speaker 1: During the hangman's meal, the condemned would participate in a

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Speaker 1: scripted exchange in which they were told to seek forgiveness

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Speaker 1: for them their actions. The sharing of a meal between

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Speaker 1: the condemned and those who had condemned them was symbolic

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Speaker 1: representing both forgiveness and acceptance. Hey, I refuse, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean, Like, I don't want to sit down

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Speaker 1: and have some goose with the guy who's gonna hang

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Speaker 1: me in. You know, in a couple of hours, I

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Speaker 1: respectfully asked for that guy to send this one out,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: Maybe, like, you know, let my family come or something.

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Speaker 3: But it's a little weird, and in a way it

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Speaker 3: seems to me to be more for the people doing

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Speaker 3: the killing right and the one being killed. It's a

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Speaker 3: way of kind of normalizing the act of ending someone's

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Speaker 3: life at a functional, governmental kind of level.

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Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, it's I think it's gosh.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's to asswatch the moral hang ups of the

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Speaker 1: other people, like the functionaries of the state who are

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Speaker 1: about to murder someone want to be able to sleep

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Speaker 1: at night, and so this is there a little.

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Speaker 3: Stop to insert like this semblance of empathy into the

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Speaker 3: proceedings of what ultimately is the least empathic thing that

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Speaker 3: could be done to a person. Not to say that

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Speaker 3: we're not here to litigate whether or not the death

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Speaker 3: penalty is okay or humane or whatever, but you know,

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Speaker 3: in general, the act of taking someone's life is frowned upon.

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Speaker 2: If we're coming back to the Bible, you know.

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Speaker 1: That's a great takeaway quote. In general, the act of

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Speaker 1: taking someone's life is frowned upon. An Old Brown August

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Speaker 1: twenty four. I love it. It's true. And it's also true

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Speaker 1: that this practice, this last meal practice, was not unique

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Speaker 1: to Germany.

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Speaker 2: But there is a.

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Speaker 1: Just over the channel in London, there is a practice

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Speaker 1: that is a little bit more helpful, perhaps to the

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Speaker 1: condemned person. I did not know this. I don't think

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Speaker 1: a lot of us knew this. In London. Around the

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Speaker 1: same time as the Hangman's Meal, in Germany, prisoners were

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Speaker 1: allowed to hold a similar party, but they got to

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Speaker 1: decide who the guests were, and they would stop by

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Speaker 1: a pub on the day of the execution for a

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Speaker 1: quote last refreshment in life.

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Speaker 3: A bit of a death day party. I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 3: get your birthday party, why not. Yeah, this is what

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Speaker 3: I was talking about. Like with the Hangman's meal, where

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Speaker 3: it seems like, you know, it's just like the folks

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Speaker 3: that are literally putting you to death. That felt a

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Speaker 3: little bit egregious and kind of like almost adding insult

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Speaker 3: to injury that you have to sit and eat a

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Speaker 3: share a meal, which is a very intimate thing with

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Speaker 3: these people. This feels a little more right. I like

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Speaker 3: this last refreshment in life situation.

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Speaker 1: It's like a bachelor party, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: It's it's a weird invitation, you know, it's I was

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Speaker 1: the hot.

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Speaker 2: Cops showing up doing their tear away pants.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, it's like, hey, that's not really the quick

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Speaker 1: that is perhaps a little bit more on the airing,

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Speaker 1: on the side of celebrating the life of a condemned person,

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Speaker 1: letting them, letting them right have one last crazy ride

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Speaker 1: in a bittersweet jubilee of life. Life lived the Puritans

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Speaker 1: in early Massachusetts a little later on they would hold

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Speaker 1: feast for the condemned, and it was an homage to

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Speaker 1: the Last Supper of Jesus Christ. So this was around.

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Speaker 3: Likely foregoing the pub aspect of it, right, you know,

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Speaker 3: I mean, no shade on the Puritans, but I kind

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Speaker 3: of doubt it was like as much of a rabble rousing,

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Speaker 3: you know, U soiree as the old last refreshment in

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Speaker 3: life situation.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I don't think they had you know, I

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Speaker 1: don't think they had Jaegermeister shots and a DJ maybe

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Speaker 1: a little soft cider, you know, something like sure for refreshments.

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Speaker 2: Because the cider had turned exactly.

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Speaker 3: But you know, all of that's, to your point, been

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Speaker 3: an absolute parallel of Jesus's Last Supper. And a lot

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Speaker 3: of this, I mean really does come from a place

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Speaker 3: of religiousness. It feels like that even when it does

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Speaker 3: turn more towards the secular.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, and this is where you get to the

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Speaker 1: rise of the modern last meal. Let's be honest, if

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Speaker 1: you live in the United States, and I would say

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Speaker 1: if you live in most western countries, you probably associate

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Speaker 1: last meals with the idea of death row. Not death

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Speaker 1: row records, the actual death row where inmates who have

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Speaker 1: been convicted wrongfully or not of crimes like murder or

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Speaker 1: treason are going to be executed by the state. And

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Speaker 1: there are so many, like, there are so many cultural

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Speaker 1: touchstones about this, in so many films, in so many songs.

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Speaker 1: What's that one song, Mercy Seat.

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Speaker 2: I believe that's nick Cave and the Bad Sea, Nick

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Speaker 2: Cave and the Bad Seeds.

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Speaker 3: And I believe that's even a biblical reference right there,

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Speaker 3: the the idea of the mercy seat being a physical location.

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Speaker 2: That housed the arc of the Covenant, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the it's the list, actual actual chair, like

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Speaker 1: I see. Yeah, And in the nick Cave song, it is, uh,

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Speaker 1: the mercy seat is euphemism for, I believe, for the

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Speaker 1: electric chair. They they don't mention, they don't mention food specifically,

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Speaker 1: unless I'm misremembering a verse and that probably.

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Speaker 2: Say those sinister dinner deals. That's right, the meal trolleys of.

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Speaker 3: Jesus in my soup in the meal trolley's wicked wheels. Yeah, no,

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Speaker 3: it does and absolutely references. That's pretty pretty cool, Ben,

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Speaker 3: I did not know that. I'm a big Nick Cave fan.

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Speaker 1: It's a weird one, and we would love to hear

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Speaker 1: your examples of of when last meals occur in pop fiction.

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Speaker 1: But this hits on a point that you brought up

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Speaker 1: earlier in l We have some myths to bust about

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Speaker 1: last meals in fiction versus last meals in the real world.

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Speaker 1: And one of the biggest ones that you introduced here

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Speaker 1: is the idea that anyone preparing for their last meal

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Speaker 1: has free range to order whatever they want, you know,

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Speaker 1: like I'll have a tiger filey and the ortelawn with

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Speaker 1: the side of milk steak and jelly beans.

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Speaker 2: That's not the case. No sloppy steaks all around.

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Speaker 3: Not to mention Ben that not in every state is

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Speaker 3: the death penalty legal. As of this year twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 3: as we sit and record this the year of our Lord,

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Speaker 3: there are twenty one states that still have capital punishment

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Speaker 3: aka execution in the law books. Those are Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Monte, Nebraska, Nevada,

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Speaker 3: at North Carolina, Oklahoma.

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Speaker 2: South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Utah, and Wyoming in alphabetical order.

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Speaker 2: It sounds it's a thing.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like such an evil alphabet. But it's also

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Speaker 1: a lot of spaces of death there it is. Wait,

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Speaker 1: that's actually a film, too, isn't it. I think it's

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Speaker 1: like an anthology horror situation. And there are another six

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Speaker 1: states where the death penalty is legal, but for one

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Speaker 1: reason or another, no executions are taking place. Maybe the

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Speaker 1: attorney general temporarily halted them, maybe the governor prohibited them

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Speaker 1: via executive order.

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Speaker 2: Those would be.

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Speaker 1: Arizona, California, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Tennessee. So not everybody gets

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Speaker 1: a last meal, because not every state in the US

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Speaker 1: currently executes people, and the ones that do execute people,

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Speaker 1: this is the next myth, not all of them allow

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Speaker 1: a special room, quest or accommodation for that last meal.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes you just you just get whatever is in the cafeteria.

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Speaker 3: At Etah, get what you get and is it you

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Speaker 3: don't pitch a fit or you don't get to pick

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Speaker 3: I always I'm never sure which one.

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Speaker 2: I think it's you don't pitch a fit. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: just a little quick mention.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you know, the death penalty, of course, has

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Speaker 3: always been a hot button issue for a very very

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Speaker 3: long time, and we're I'm here to fall on one

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Speaker 3: side of the debate or another, but there has been

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Speaker 3: some very interesting evolution. I guess, maybe not in the

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Speaker 3: way the death penalty is carried out, but just in

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Speaker 3: like so many cases of people like being exonerated at

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Speaker 3: the last minute. You know, we've done some episodes on

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Speaker 3: stuff they don't want you to know with the folks

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Speaker 3: related to Lava for Good and the Innocence Project, and

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Speaker 3: you know, we know that because of new developments in

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Speaker 3: DNA testing and forensic technology, there have been numerous cases

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Speaker 3: where folks nearly made it to the hangman's noose and

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Speaker 3: then we're at the last minute some new piece of

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Speaker 3: evidence came out. So I think that may well be

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Speaker 3: why some of those states that have temporarily halted it

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Speaker 3: have done so because it's tricky to navigate, and we

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Speaker 3: know stays of execution have always been in play. It's

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Speaker 3: a movie thing as well, and it's very expensive and

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Speaker 3: very dangerous in a way in terms of liability, I guess,

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Speaker 3: you know, for the state.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And honestly, that is a all things considered, that

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Speaker 1: is an ideal, an ideal situation because unfortunately, often people

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Speaker 1: are exonerated posthumously. Someone has been executed and later evidence

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Speaker 1: proves that they were in a stet.

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Speaker 3: Probably is more common than what I was describing, the

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Speaker 3: idea of being saved from the hangman's news that usually

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Speaker 3: it often happens after the fact. But you can look

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Speaker 3: into that stuff. That's sort of outside of the scope

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Speaker 3: of this episode. But as you mentioned, many of the

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Speaker 3: states that do execute people, there really isn't any special

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Speaker 3: dispensation or you know, cost five language laying out this

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Speaker 3: notion of some grandiose last meal.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and uh a pro tip for pro tip if

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Speaker 1: you're ever in this situation. Also, we hope that you

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Speaker 1: are never in this situation. The authorities generally prefer to

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Speaker 1: call these things special meals instead of last meals.

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Speaker 3: Oh, there's semantics as a hell of a drug. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I love you pointed out something out Ben by the

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Speaker 3: way that you're the research associated extraordinary for this episode.

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Speaker 3: And this has been a pet interest of yours and mine,

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Speaker 3: you know, through you, for for some time. But you

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Speaker 3: pointed out something that I found ironic and a little

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Speaker 3: little twisted. There's some situations where, due to the method

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Speaker 3: of execution, you gotta have an empty stomach. It's like

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Speaker 3: getting a physical only it's like the opposite of getting

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Speaker 3: a physical it's a non physical. Speaking of which, have

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Speaker 3: you heard of the proliferation of the term unlived or unlived?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Have we gone too far, guys with political correctness?

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Speaker 2: I think maybe a little bit.

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Speaker 3: I saw an article where a reference to Kurt Cobain

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Speaker 3: ending his own life at a museum that I've been

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Speaker 3: to actually in Seattle, the Museum of Pop Culture. In

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Speaker 3: one of the little plaques, it referred to him as

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Speaker 3: having unalived himself.

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Speaker 2: And I don't know, man, it just doesn't sound right

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Speaker 2: to me. But whatever I.

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Speaker 1: Believe, and I'm guessing here, but if I were to guess,

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Speaker 1: which I am, I believe that term came about in

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Speaker 1: service of social media algorithms, right, because if you use

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Speaker 1: the S word, then maybe your post or your content

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Speaker 1: gets buried.

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Speaker 2: True.

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Speaker 3: That's a really good point Ben you are, like, I

402
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,040
Speaker 3: do notice that in text or on screen, you know,

403
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Speaker 3: translations or whatever, they'll asterisk out a couple of letters.

404
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Speaker 3: We've even done it on our social videos for stuff

405
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Speaker 3: they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 2: I think we did an episode and.

407
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Speaker 3: A robot potential robot suicide, and our social media person

408
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Speaker 3: recommended that we have you know, like X those letters

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Speaker 3: out because it does tend that to you can videos

410
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Speaker 3: can be demonetized at the very least fall in the ranking.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and the issue you're talking about the physical museum plaque.

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Speaker 1: To me, that's going too far, But it may be

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Speaker 1: it may be a situation again, like special meals instead

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Speaker 1: of last meals. We use these linguistic tricks to make

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Speaker 1: ourselves feel a little bit better right, or to feel

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Speaker 1: less conflicted about these horrible things. All of the states

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Speaker 1: that here's the other myth. Of the states that do

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Speaker 1: execute people and do provide a last meal, most have

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Speaker 1: some pretty significant restrictions of what you can or cannot request.

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Speaker 1: Another thing of the very last myth in this I

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Speaker 1: don't know, this kind of blew my mind. Often times,

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Speaker 1: prisoners who do get a last meal, they don't request

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Speaker 1: super fancy stuff. They're not, you know, they're not like

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Speaker 1: I have a giants two from Skyrim, or you know,

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Speaker 1: I'll have a giraffe neck bone soup.

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Speaker 3: So you're saying most inmates on death row aren't similar

427
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Speaker 3: to the late Great Hannibal Elector, right, he would have

428
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Speaker 3: asked for something fancy. He would have asked for something

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Speaker 3: real fancy, I think, you know, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Just to be inconvenient. But no sharks.

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Speaker 3: But I mean the guy was a you know, he

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Speaker 3: was the late great doctor Hannah Elector was a bit

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Speaker 3: of a foodie, you know. And this is not to

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Speaker 3: say that there aren't highbrow people that make their way up.

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Speaker 2: To death Row.

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Speaker 3: We're not here to stereotype people that, you know, have

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Speaker 3: their lives ended by the state. But it does, to

438
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 3: your point, been seem much more common for it to be.

439
00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 3: Maybe there might be a volume of food, but it's

440
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 3: usually a volume of like good old American staples, you know,

441
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:09,399
Speaker 3: like the cheeseburger, the hot dog, some hot wings, you know,

442
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 3: a bucket of fries, whatever.

443
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 2: Fried chicken is a huge one. Popka.

444
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, And there's a reason for this, arguably, you could say,

445
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:22,920
Speaker 1: I mean, it's important to remember that by the time

446
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:28,360
Speaker 1: people get to this point, wrongfully convicted or rightfully convicted.

447
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:32,680
Speaker 1: They have been in the prison system for years, for decades,

448
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 1: and so at this point they've been eating the same

449
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 1: stuff day in and day out. So they probably spent

450
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:44,680
Speaker 1: a lot of time yearning for some nostalgic, as you said,

451
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 1: comfort food. So maybe they don't want to try a

452
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 1: new thing. I mean, can you imagine the gosh, the

453
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 1: existential kick in the pants if you say, I want

454
00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 1: to try something I've never tried before in my life,

455
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 1: just to just to see, right before the state executes me,

456
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 1: I want to try something wild, Like I want to

457
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:14,119
Speaker 1: try Nato, the fermented beans that basically are taste of diapers.

458
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 3: That's what I've heard. Yeah, no, no, no, I'm good

459
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 3: with that. More for more for the rest of you.

460
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 3: But you know, it is interesting, you know, we always

461
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 3: say it's sort of a cliche, but like death is

462
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,640
Speaker 3: the one thing that everyone knows they will experience, but

463
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 3: no one knows what it's like. And typically, even like

464
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,159
Speaker 3: in the case of terminal illness, you're probably not going

465
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 3: to know the exact moment of your snuffing, you know

466
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 3: what I mean.

467
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,920
Speaker 2: And so this is a very unique situation.

468
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 3: You know, the idea of being executed and facing it

469
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 3: so directly whatever you've done, you know, whatever horrific deeds

470
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 3: led you to this place. We are at our at

471
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 3: our root, all human and and this has to be

472
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 3: a bit of a mind.

473
00:26:58,080 --> 00:26:59,439
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I agree.

474
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 1: So can a death row inmate request anything they want

475
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 1: for their final meal?

476
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:12,159
Speaker 2: Of course?

477
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:19,680
Speaker 1: Sure, request request exactly, Yeah, but I respectfully decline, right, Yeah,

478
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:20,160
Speaker 1: the state.

479
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 3: I am the state, and I respectfully decline your requests.

480
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, requests.

481
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 3: There are examples though, like I believe Texas you pointed

482
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 3: up in go out of their way to do the

483
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 3: best they can to accommodate any orders. But typically, uh,

484
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,119
Speaker 3: like in Virginia, for example, there's kind of like a

485
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:43,880
Speaker 3: rotating death row menu. Tell me more about this. Is

486
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 3: this like is this just the regular like like fun

487
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 3: meal day menu for all the inmates or is this

488
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 3: specifically for death row Because people don't get executed every day.

489
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 3: It takes a long time, and we don't we usually

490
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 3: hear about it when it happens because it's such a

491
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 3: big deal, right or am I am? I maybe over

492
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 3: generalizing there, Yeah, you're.

493
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 1: One hundred percent correct. Before Virginia abolished capital punishment in

494
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one for everybody outside of the US. Virginia's

495
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:16,640
Speaker 1: a state in the East coast. Here, Virginia prisons had

496
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:20,440
Speaker 1: a twenty eight day rotating menu for all the prisoners,

497
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,879
Speaker 1: for all the inmates. Got it, So you might have

498
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,159
Speaker 1: hot dogs on the first and then on the second

499
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,359
Speaker 1: day you might have chili. And if you were a

500
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 1: prisoner on death row and you were going to be executed,

501
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,880
Speaker 1: your last meal could be one of the thing, one

502
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: of the meals in that twenty eight day rotation.

503
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 3: So this special could I have a chili dog? Could

504
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 3: I combine to I would hope that. Well, it seems reasonable, right, It.

505
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: Seems like you're not asking for the moon and stars

506
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 1: at that point, you know, so surely they.

507
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 2: Could work with you.

508
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 1: You noted the Texas penal system, how they pride themselves

509
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 1: on doing the best to a any order that actually

510
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 1: comes from the chefs themselves, not just the warden and

511
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 1: the guards, because a lot of those chefs are themselves incarcerated,

512
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 1: so maybe they have a bit more empathy with someone

513
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 1: who's on death row. But they can't get everything right

514
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 1: because budgets are real. A lot of people for instance,

515
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 1: request filet mignon. You got to get as close to

516
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: that as possible.

517
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, they might cook up a hamburg steak.

518
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 3: You know, I'm sorry, I say I love like in

519
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 3: like cowboys stories and like a prison story, they call

520
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 3: it a hamburg instead of a Hamburger. I've always found

521
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 3: that interesting. But yeah, you know, again a close approximation.

522
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 3: This is coming from a place of empathy outside of

523
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 3: the system, really, because to your point, Bend, these are

524
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 3: folks that are inside as well oftentimes, so they might

525
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 3: do a little go a little bit more above and beyond.

526
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 3: I do love this quote though, from this article on Slate.

527
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 3: I'll have twenty four tacos and the f y'aw can

528
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 3: a prisoner request anything for his last meal? By Christopher Beam.

529
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 3: If twenty four tacos were requested, they might cut it

530
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 3: down to four. Yeah, it seems a little insulting. I

531
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 3: don't know, you think they could like do eight. You know,

532
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 3: it's a taco. You just slap it on there. It's fine.

533
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 2: I just ge't.

534
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 1: I've still stuck on this idea too, of ordering something

535
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 1: for the first time. You know, you're like, oh, I've

536
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 1: never tried snake or eel or you know some other

537
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 1: very specific food and you eat it and you hate it.

538
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 2: This is awful. Mull again, can I I'm sorry, Yucky, I.

539
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 1: Don't think you get redos, which is I think you

540
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 1: do to the point of death row.

541
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 2: Let's talk a little bit about how it works.

542
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 1: So if you've met all these caveats and conditions, if

543
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 1: you're in a state that does this, and you are

544
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: on death row, you're usually going to put your final

545
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 1: meal or excuse us, your special meal request in a

546
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 1: couple of days before the execution date, and then that

547
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 1: request goes to the prison chef, often themselves incarcerated, and

548
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 1: they try to figure out the best way to prepare

549
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 1: the meal, and once it's ready, it's brought to your

550
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 1: cell at some point before execution. The most popular request

551
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 1: and nol, you already nailed this, my friend, the most

552
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 1: popular request. Paul will like this as well. A cheeseburger

553
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:32,479
Speaker 1: and fries. Also people like steak, fried chicken, chicken fried steak,

554
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 1: and ice cream.

555
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, all things that sort of fall under the slightly

556
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 3: decadentd category, but really more like comfort food, you know,

557
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 3: stuff that you might eat more of if you weren't

558
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 3: really watching your figure, you know, or like being super

559
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 3: health conscious, because who cares at this point? You know,

560
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 3: A communication representative often announces the menu to reporters, but

561
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 3: prisoners are allowed to request of the choice remains secret.

562
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,959
Speaker 3: I believe the Texas Department of Criminal Justice would post

563
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 3: these up until two thousand and four, but then it

564
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 3: was determined to be offensive or there was some kind

565
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 3: of backlash. So Florida, you know, they have those Sunshine laws,

566
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 3: you know, where it's like everything is a public record

567
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 3: more or less, which is what allows so many of

568
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 3: those Florida man did some crazy stuff stories to proliferate.

569
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 3: So you got to wonder if because of that law,

570
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 3: like last meals of Florida death row inmates are unable

571
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 3: to be suppressed.

572
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's that's a great question. You can still

573
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 1: find the Texas list online courtesyfarchive dot org. The last

574
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 1: request listed is from a guy named Larry Hayes, who

575
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 1: is convicted of double homicide. He asked for the following

576
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 1: two bacon cheeseburgers, French fries, onion rings, catch up coleslaw,

577
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 1: two diet cokes weirdly enough, one quart of milk, one

578
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 1: pint of Rocky Road ice cream, one pint of fried Okra,

579
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 1: salad dressing, tomato and onion.

580
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 3: Just like a bowl of salad dressing that you would

581
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 3: just dip the maybe as a dipper. You know what,

582
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 3: who are we just sad? Also, I want to know

583
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 3: salad dressing is too vag Was he a ranch guy

584
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 3: the two thousand Island a little blue cheese? Because at

585
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 3: that point it get you know, I don't know, I

586
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 3: have questions, but Texas no longer offers last meals at all.

587
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 3: In the last one they served so far occurred in

588
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 3: twenty eleven when a prisoner asked for steak, fried okra,

589
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 3: a triple bacon, cheeseburger, three fajidas, an omelet.

590
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 2: Pizza, half a loaf.

591
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 3: This guy ruined for everybody half a loaf of bread,

592
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 3: Bluebelt ice cream, peanut butter fudge, and three root beers.

593
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, and notice how we now that's it. We're pulling

594
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 2: the program. This is too much this guy. Yeah, why

595
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 2: stop at half a loaf?

596
00:33:56,280 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 1: We also mentioned that tendency to public size last meals

597
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 1: to the press. This is this is speaking directly to

598
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 1: the heart of this episode. Yeah, the universal nature right,

599
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 1: everybody dies, everybody has to eat, just like Checkers said,

600
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 1: I've got to stop referencing that.

601
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 3: What a lackluster I'm sorry, it's just like you gotta eat.

602
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 3: I love some of this slop.

603
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 1: You know, You're like, are we the best? No, that's

604
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 1: not gonna work. But people do have to eat. And

605
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: someone in the boardroom said, wait, say that again.

606
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just said, you gotta. It's got a real

607
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:39,800
Speaker 2: ring to it. Hold the phone. We'll have the Mayo,

608
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 2: hold the may slather it with mayo. What does the

609
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 2: matter gonna die? Yeah? Who cares about the calories.

610
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: We're going to have a stay of execution for this episode.

611
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,359
Speaker 1: We are making this a two parter and hey, Noel,

612
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 1: look at us.

613
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 2: We called it in advance this time, the preemptive two parter.

614
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 2: Gotta love it.

615
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 3: Baby's all grown up by baby, I mean.

616
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 2: Meet me and you we're baby. Yeah.

617
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 1: Big, big thanks to our producer mister Max Williams, and

618
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 1: big thanks to our guest producer Paul wygu Decad.

619
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, huge thanks to Jonathan Strickland, the quist aj Bahama

620
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 3: Breeze Jacobs the puzz Isn't that a drink? Isn't that

621
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,800
Speaker 3: like a like a tasty tiky drink of Bahama Breeze

622
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 3: aj Bahama Breeze, Jacobs the Puzzler, Chris frosciotas.

623
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 2: Eve, Jeff cos Here in Spirit.

624
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 1: Oh dang it, well, we forgot to ask our pal

625
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 1: the Quister about his last meal, probably human flesh. Yeah, classics,

626
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 1: strict classics trick.

627
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:48,240
Speaker 2: We'll see you next time, folks.

628
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

629
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:58,720
Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,