Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us
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Speaker 2: I'm Joe Matthew in Washington, where things are a bit
Speaker 2: quieter today. But like at the end of the horror
Speaker 2: movie when the hand comes reaching out of the water,
Speaker 2: that's Chuck Schumer's hand telling members they're not leaving town
Speaker 2: quite yet. They're expected to report to work on Monday,
Speaker 2: even as he has the house heads home for the year.
Speaker 2: The question is is he keeping members here because of
Speaker 2: progress that he wants to harness on a border deal,
Speaker 2: or is he keeping them here to apply pressure so
Speaker 2: there is some progress. What we're hearing from those at
Speaker 2: the table is remarkable. Senator uh Cornyn, by the way,
Speaker 2: there's no reason for us to rush to pass something
Speaker 2: that's dead on arrival in the House. That's going to
Speaker 2: be an issue. But look at Cen kirston Cinema, one
Speaker 2: of the three primary negotiators that appears at this moment. Quote,
Speaker 2: I can see a deal, unquote. The White House now
Speaker 2: deeply involved. Chris Murphy says that might generate something. And
Speaker 2: we want to talk about specifics because we've been having
Speaker 2: broad stroke conversations about what could be a once in
Speaker 2: a generation opportunity to handle this problem. And the person
Speaker 2: we wanted to call to talk to you with about
Speaker 2: it is Will Hurd, and he's joining us right now.
Speaker 2: The former congressman, of course, former CIA officer, former Republican
Speaker 2: presidential candidate, who has had a lot to say about
Speaker 2: the border, of course, not only because of the location
Speaker 2: of his district, but as a former intelligence officer, has
Speaker 2: a good sense of the technology involved in some of
Speaker 2: the demands that we're hearing from the border that escape
Speaker 2: politics frequently here in Washington. Congressman, it's good to see you,
Speaker 2: Welcome back to Bloomberg here. Before I ask you about
Speaker 2: specifics and where we might find common ground on a
Speaker 2: border deal, i'd like to know if you think it's
Speaker 2: even possible. You know the people who are at the
Speaker 2: table here. Do you think we have enough good faith
Speaker 2: in Washington? Is there any to cut a compromise on
Speaker 2: such an important issue?
Speaker 3: There is because it makes good sense politically, right, is
Speaker 3: the bottom line? And I think the answer to your
Speaker 3: question and the lead up to this was yes to
Speaker 3: both of them.
Speaker 4: Yes, they're staying in this.
Speaker 3: They're staying in Washington because they can see the outlines
Speaker 3: of a deal in two. They're staying in Washington in
Speaker 3: order to force it to happen. What always shocks people
Speaker 3: in Washington, DC. You can have debates that take months
Speaker 3: to negotiate and then get sorted out in the matter
Speaker 3: of hours when there is a clock ticking and there's
Speaker 3: nothing better to force elected officials to do something than
Speaker 3: for them to try to get on a plane to
Speaker 3: get back home before Christmas.
Speaker 2: Well, so what's real? We have already seen HR two
Speaker 2: and Speaker Mike Johnson says that's the starting line here
Speaker 2: in the House, as members don't want anything short of that.
Speaker 2: It did not receive a single Democratic vote, But we
Speaker 2: are hearing about common ground on tightening asylum law. I'd
Speaker 2: like to start there with you on what that might
Speaker 2: look like, because this is an administration that wasn't even
Speaker 2: having that conversation a couple of months ago. Will hurd
Speaker 2: to what extent should asylum law be redefined?
Speaker 3: Well, asylum law should should. It should be very simple.
Speaker 3: We don't even have to redefine it stop treating everybody
Speaker 3: as an asylum seeker like this is an actual a
Speaker 3: policy within the Department of Homeland Security that comes down
Speaker 3: from the top, and this was a policy that began
Speaker 3: under Donald Trump. And so one of the things that's
Speaker 3: being discussed is what's called expedited removal. Basically, somebody comes
Speaker 3: across the border legally, they're in border patrol's custody and
Speaker 3: then they get deported quickly without going through some of
Speaker 3: the immigration hearings in order to determine whether they meet
Speaker 3: the rules for asylum. And I have to remind people
Speaker 3: wanting to come to America to get a better paying
Speaker 3: job is not a reason for asylum.
Speaker 4: You have to be part of a tectic class. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Lookt so you have to be under violent under physical
Speaker 2: threat before we move on, does it need to be
Speaker 2: escaping violence or physical threat versus harsh economic conditions that
Speaker 2: qualify you for claiming asylum.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you have to be targeted by your government because
Speaker 3: you're part of a protected class, or your government is
Speaker 3: not protecting you from being targeted.
Speaker 4: Because you're part of a protected class.
Speaker 3: And those definitions State Department has that. It's very clear
Speaker 3: around the world where there's pockets of this kind of
Speaker 3: thing happening. Right, if you're a wager in China, you're
Speaker 3: getting screwed by the government. Okay, there's a there's a
Speaker 3: good reason for being able to apply for asylum. There's
Speaker 3: some cases when it comes to Venezuela where there's good
Speaker 3: reasons for asylum. So that that's the part that is
Speaker 3: very like. The law is actually very clear, and the
Speaker 3: Biden administration is not adhering to those existing standards. Now,
Speaker 3: so what does that look like in a deal for Congress,
Speaker 3: a funding deal to improve with ICE, who is the
Speaker 3: Immigration's customs and enforcement, who's responsible for deporting people, give
Speaker 3: them more money to deport more people, right, Like, that's
Speaker 3: something that has to be at play. And when I
Speaker 3: said at the beginning of this, this makes sense politically,
Speaker 3: you know, Joe Biden should be happy that Republicans are
Speaker 3: willing to deal on this because this could give him
Speaker 3: a political victory going into twenty twenty four. Because the
Speaker 3: nonsense that's happening at the border is an issue, and
Speaker 3: so the people to watch in this case is actually
Speaker 3: not necessarily Republicans. It's what are the Democrats could be
Speaker 3: willing to deal with President Biden on this because President
Speaker 3: Biden really wants to see a victory here.
Speaker 2: Where should the president fall on safe third countries? This
Speaker 2: is something that has been getting a lot of debate
Speaker 2: here in Washington as well, and I know is on
Speaker 2: the table in this negotiation.
Speaker 4: Well, it's simple like that.
Speaker 3: Where the policy should be is, you know, you've got
Speaker 3: to be a part of protective class and being targeted
Speaker 3: by your government.
Speaker 4: You can't apply for asylum any other way, right.
Speaker 2: When you're coming through another country.
Speaker 3: If you're coming through another country, it still starts with
Speaker 3: you where you were from, right, and you should also
Speaker 3: be applying for asylum in the next contiguous country.
Speaker 4: That has been the norm around around the world. Right.
Speaker 3: This is one of those issues where where when you
Speaker 3: look at humanitarian groups in Europe that are looking kind
Speaker 3: of at America like y'all are a little bit crazy
Speaker 3: because we're the only ones that are allowing people to
Speaker 3: travel halfway around the world in order to in order
Speaker 3: to apply for asylum.
Speaker 4: You should be applying for siem in some cases in.
Speaker 3: Your host kind or in the first opportunity outside of
Speaker 3: the country where you're being targeted. And so so that look,
Speaker 3: this is At the end of the day, people are
Speaker 3: abusing this process and they're wanting to come to America
Speaker 3: to get a better paying job, which is fine, and
Speaker 3: this is what the Democrats.
Speaker 4: Are real frauds. Negotiate on streamlining legal immigration.
Speaker 3: Right, you know, this is something that I've spent a
Speaker 3: lot of time trying to work on. And the reason
Speaker 3: Democrats are the obstacle from streamlining legal immigration because they
Speaker 3: don't want to get cross with many of their big
Speaker 3: labor unions.
Speaker 2: Well that's interesting, because we need workers in this country
Speaker 2: if we're approaching full employment. Real immigration is a conversation
Speaker 2: that we needed to have at the same time as security.
Speaker 2: As we spend time with Will Hurd on Bloomberg Sound On,
Speaker 2: I'm just curious when it comes to technology, what we
Speaker 2: should be spending our money on. We're having a debate
Speaker 2: again about whether to finish a wall that Donald Trump
Speaker 2: says was already done, and I guess Mexico is going
Speaker 2: to pay for it. I know that has not been
Speaker 2: your preferred approach. If we have money to spend at
Speaker 2: the border on security, should it go to drones, Should
Speaker 2: it go to these new observation towers, these unmanned towers
Speaker 2: that are being erected. What do you see in our future?
Speaker 3: Well, well, the innovative tower initiative started when I was
Speaker 3: in Congress, and I helped pave the way to make
Speaker 3: that happen. What we should be achieving on our border
Speaker 3: is operational control.
Speaker 4: That means we know.
Speaker 3: Everything that's coming across our border in either direction. We
Speaker 3: don't have that in the two thousand miles of border
Speaker 3: in Texas. Every mile is different from every other mile,
Speaker 3: So you need the right tool. In some places where
Speaker 3: there's urban to urban contact, a physical barrier makes sense.
Speaker 3: But in other places where it takes border patrol hours
Speaker 3: or days to respond to a threat, you need the
Speaker 3: ability to determine there's a threat, to track that threat
Speaker 3: until you're able to deploy your most important resource to
Speaker 3: men and women in border pature. So it could be
Speaker 3: light ar, which is basically radar using using later lasers.
Speaker 3: It could be it could be night vision UH cameras.
Speaker 3: It could be drones, it could be UH sensors in
Speaker 3: the ground. Right like like we and and d HS
Speaker 3: has done a review of every mile and what the
Speaker 3: right tool is execute on that, and it's a whole
Speaker 3: suite of technology that we need and we shouldn't be
Speaker 3: wetted to anyone, let alone a fourth century uh a
Speaker 3: solution that people can can get around.
Speaker 4: And so that's that include.
Speaker 3: Look so so in some on our coast, Yes, look
Speaker 3: this this debate about booys and preventing people from coming
Speaker 3: across across the border. You should let the folks on
Speaker 3: the ground decide what the right what the right tool is.
Speaker 3: In that case, you would stop having people potentially drowning
Speaker 3: in the Rio Grande River if you stop creating a
Speaker 3: poll factor by letting anybody come here and apply for
Speaker 3: asylum and spend you know, three to four years in
Speaker 3: America when they when they came here illegally.
Speaker 2: As a former intelligence officer, a former undercover CIA officer,
Speaker 2: are we hearing rhetoric about bad actors crossing the border
Speaker 2: coming from other countries, from Iran, from China? This is
Speaker 2: part of the messaging that we're getting from some Republicans
Speaker 2: in Washington. Do we have evidence to that extent and
Speaker 2: how worried are you about it?
Speaker 3: Well, there's no question that we've apprehended people that have
Speaker 3: been on a number of lists that elevate them as
Speaker 3: a potential threat to the country. Right, there's no question,
Speaker 3: there's no there's no question about that, and how that
Speaker 3: happens has been you know, a couple of months ago,
Speaker 3: member in the middle of the campaign, there was an
Speaker 3: ISIS smuggler, someone who was known to be an ISIS
Speaker 3: smuggler or had connections to a known ISIS smuggler that
Speaker 3: was apprehended coming across the border.
Speaker 4: Uh, and and and and so.
Speaker 3: So that is happening, and you know, the fortunately men
Speaker 3: and women in border patrol are able to apprehend this
Speaker 3: and the intelligence services or are feeding the right right data.
Speaker 4: But we should be concerned.
Speaker 3: We should also be concerned with our biggest adversary, the
Speaker 3: Chinese Communist Party, coming in here and doing intelligence operations.
Speaker 3: A couple of years ago, there were a number of
Speaker 3: Chinese astrophysicists that snuck across the border and act like
Speaker 3: they were Uh. They applied for jobs as janitors at
Speaker 3: at SpaceX, and part of it was in order to
Speaker 3: get access to rooms and capabilities and understand what was
Speaker 3: what was happening with that collaboration between SpaceX and now
Speaker 3: an American SPACEWLSE.
Speaker 4: So those are some.
Speaker 3: Concerns that we should have as well of our adversaries
Speaker 3: using that poorest border in a way to conduct some
Speaker 3: intelligence operations.
Speaker 2: I wonder if they got to meet Elon Well heard
Speaker 2: you left the presidential race some time ago. I was
Speaker 2: amazed to see that the date on your endorsement for
Speaker 2: Nicki Haley was the ninth of October. A lot has
Speaker 2: happened for her campaign since then, and she's really become
Speaker 2: the candidate to watch based on the conventional wisdom. I
Speaker 2: know she has a long way to close a gap
Speaker 2: with Donald Trump. Can she win the New Hampshire primary.
Speaker 4: She can absolutely win the New Hampshire primary.
Speaker 3: The Republican nominee for president is down to two people.
Speaker 4: A man and a woman, Donald Trump and Nicky Haley.
Speaker 4: And Nicki Haley has had real momentum. That's why I
Speaker 4: endorsed her.
Speaker 3: She is, you know, we have a choice between chaos
Speaker 3: and drama of Donald Trump or a thoughtfulness, prag being
Speaker 3: a pragmatic approach and getting things done with Ambassador Haley.
Speaker 3: And and look some of these endorsements, her recent endorsement
Speaker 3: of Governor Sanunu, who's well liked up and down the
Speaker 3: ballot in New Hampshire, and then also organizations like Americans
Speaker 3: for Prosperity. They have an amazing ground game in New Hampshire.
Speaker 3: I saw it firsthand. I'm familiar with the organization. They've
Speaker 3: been helpful to me in previous elections. And so this
Speaker 3: is a real opportunity. And on what people are failing
Speaker 3: to realize that Donald excuse me, President Biden is not
Speaker 3: going to be on the ballot in New Hampshire because
Speaker 3: of all the decisions within the Democratic Party on which
Speaker 3: state should go first. And so you're going to have
Speaker 3: a lot of unaffiliated voters in New Hampshire. Of the
Speaker 3: voters primary voters are registered unaffiliated, which means they can
Speaker 3: pick whichever ballot they want when they go into the
Speaker 3: when they go into the to the ballot, and there's
Speaker 3: a lot of people that that they're not getting factored
Speaker 3: into polling that are going to vote for someone like
Speaker 3: Nicki Haley. So so Ambassa Haley has a real shot.
Speaker 3: She's she's on the ground, she has a great organization
Speaker 3: on the ground, and this is one to watch and
Speaker 3: I think, and then the thing that the Price is
Speaker 3: failing to do. We talk about all the ten seconds
Speaker 3: sure sure that Donald Trump is ahead of Joe Biden,
Speaker 3: Nicki Haley has an even bigger margin against against Joe
Speaker 3: Biden in a general election.
Speaker 2: Well, we are seeing that in our polling as well.
Speaker 2: Will hurt If you're in Iowa or New Hampshire, come
Speaker 2: see us. I want to have this conversation with you.
Speaker 2: In the early States, we'll heard former congressman former Republican
Speaker 2: presidential candidate The Panels.
Speaker 1: Next, this is Bloomberg. You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound
Speaker 1: on podcast. Catch the program live weekdays at one Eastern
Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App.
Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our
Speaker 1: flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Speaker 2: Chris Christy just threw the Hail Mary pass in New Hampshire.
Speaker 2: If you listen to this program, if you listen to
Speaker 2: Rick and Genie, you know he's put all his chips
Speaker 2: on the first in the nation primary state and he's
Speaker 2: up with his first ad. Will it be the only ad?
Speaker 2: Might be the question. It is a six figure ad
Speaker 2: by here and it's going to be going up on
Speaker 2: local TV, on cable news. It's called The Only One.
Speaker 5: Nikki Haley down by twenty six on her home state
Speaker 5: to Trump attacks DeSantis too Lane to lead two week
Speaker 5: to win, DeSantis down thirty two to Trump, and Iowa
Speaker 5: attacks Nikki Haley. You can't trust tricky Nicky. There's only
Speaker 5: one candidate trying to stop Trump. Chris Christy is the
Speaker 5: only one who can beat Trump because he's the only
Speaker 5: one trying to beat Trump.
Speaker 2: I'm in this room, okay, So you get this that
Speaker 2: goes on and he talks about how he's going to
Speaker 2: go after Donald Trump, but he's not really going after
Speaker 2: Trump here. He's going after the other two, Ronda Santis
Speaker 2: and Chris Christie, attacking them for attacking each other. Let's
Speaker 2: reassemble the panel. Rick Davis and Genie Shanzo are here,
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Politics contributors, Genie. As you watch New Hampshire and
Speaker 2: you consider the potential fortunes for Chris Christy, what does
Speaker 2: he get out of a six figure add by here?
Speaker 2: Is this something that might be geared more toward Ronda
Speaker 2: Santis Because he's talking pretty tough about Nicki Haley. Doesn't
Speaker 2: sound like he's about to endorse her.
Speaker 6: It doesn't, you know. I think this only plays ultimately
Speaker 6: into the hands of Donald Trump. You know, you listen
Speaker 6: to this ad. He's going on and on about how
Speaker 6: these people can't beat Trump. Well, you know who can't
Speaker 6: beat Trump, Chris Christie. They need to consolidate against or
Speaker 6: behind somebody who can run against Donald Trump and has
Speaker 6: a shot, a long shot at this point. That person
Speaker 6: now is Nicky Haley. Your conversation with a representative herd,
Speaker 6: he made the same case. The reality is she's got
Speaker 6: the momentum, she has the support, she's getting the endorsement.
Speaker 6: She's still well behind, but she's a lot closer than
Speaker 6: Chris Christy. So you know, to me, I think he
Speaker 6: is just really really playing into Donald Trump's hands here,
Speaker 6: and it is baffling to me that he's continuing on
Speaker 6: except that he's invested a lot of time and money.
Speaker 6: He's got donors who have donated and he's going to
Speaker 6: see this through New Hampshire. But it is helping Donald
Speaker 6: Trump as he does that.
Speaker 2: Rick, I want to ask you about the strategy here
Speaker 2: and where they're placing this at. Again, it's six figures,
Speaker 2: that's not that much money. I guess you have to
Speaker 2: go local when you're in New England. I suspect the
Speaker 2: buy Manchester and Boston, but they're targeting on cable CNN
Speaker 2: and Morning Joe on MSNBC, and by that I mean
Speaker 2: not Fox, not Newsmax. Is he looking to bring Democrats
Speaker 2: over to vote in this open primary.
Speaker 7: Well, he can't bring Democrats over in this primary. And
Speaker 7: a six figure buy won't buy you Boston TV. You
Speaker 7: know that better than anybody. So it's a local buy
Speaker 7: and the cables are really I think Feather betting for
Speaker 7: his next job, either on Morning Joe or on CNN.
Speaker 7: I don't know. I mean, I'm almost at the point.
Speaker 2: So this isn't a big independent spree here, Yeah, I mean, look,
Speaker 2: he wants the Independence to vote for him.
Speaker 7: He knows he's maxed out on Republicans. He's got, by
Speaker 7: the grandest measure, ten percent of the New Hampshire Republicans
Speaker 7: voting for him. There than never Trumpers. As Genie points out,
Speaker 7: all of those never Trumpers would be for Nicki Haley
Speaker 7: if he weren't in the race, and so he obviously
Speaker 7: wants to hold out of them and see what kind
Speaker 7: of deal he can get with the Independence. The Independence
Speaker 7: aren't well pulled. They are a substantial almost forty percent
Speaker 7: of the primary, maybe even more this year since there's
Speaker 7: no Democratic active day Democratic primary and and so yeah,
Speaker 7: I mean he's throwing the hail Mary Pass as you said,
Speaker 7: I mean, I'm more inclined to believe the conspiracy theory
Speaker 7: that Trump put him up to his campaign at the
Speaker 7: very beginning, you know, probably helped him with some donors,
Speaker 7: you know, and said at the last minute, I'm going
Speaker 7: to say bananas, and then you're going to attack my
Speaker 7: closest opponents. So banana has been called.
Speaker 2: I think are you Are you being real? Is that
Speaker 2: what's happening here?
Speaker 7: No, I'm being completely facetious. But these days I have
Speaker 7: to make sure, No, you're going to end up on
Speaker 7: Twitter if I don't make sure that you're being sarcastic.
Speaker 2: Genie, I've got to ask you about what's going on
Speaker 2: in Nasau County. Republicans have put up a candidate to
Speaker 2: fill the seat or buy for the seat once held
Speaker 2: by a guy named George Santos, and as we've discussed,
Speaker 2: there's going to be a special election to fill that seat,
Speaker 2: introducing Nassau County Legislator Mazi Pillip. This is fascinating, what
Speaker 2: a story to tell she's served in the Israeli defense
Speaker 2: or so she's former IDF as an Ethiopian born Jew
Speaker 2: who fled to Israel as a child. This is some
Speaker 2: kind of a storyline here, except she's an enrolled Democrat.
Speaker 2: Am I missing something here? Genie? There are Democrats running
Speaker 2: as Democrats in that race? Why her?
Speaker 6: There are? And she's a sitting Nasa County legislator on
Speaker 6: the Republican side, So you know, this is a swing district.
Speaker 6: As we know, there is some school of thought that
Speaker 6: the fact that she's running as the Republican but is
Speaker 6: a registered Democrat may help her in this district. I
Speaker 6: do have to say her backstory is incredibly impressive. Amongst
Speaker 6: other things, she is also the mother of seven children
Speaker 6: and a very accomplished woman. But you know, unlike in
Speaker 6: the case when George Santos was running, we're seeing a
Speaker 6: lot of vetting and one of the things that reporters had,
Speaker 6: like you have uncovered, is that she is a Democrat.
Speaker 6: There's also a lawsuit involving her husband's business that shouldn't
Speaker 6: probably impact her. But this is going to be a
Speaker 6: really tough, much watched district. The special election is February thirteenth,
Speaker 6: But of course New York now is going to be
Speaker 6: engaged in redistricting. It probably won't be before then, but
Speaker 6: certainly right after that. And we are going to be
Speaker 6: just right on top of the June primaries and then
Speaker 6: the November general. So this is going to be fascinating
Speaker 6: to see who comes out on top here. Tom Swazi,
Speaker 6: the Democrat, is a well known figure in those parts.
Speaker 6: He has his own challenges, including a progressive liberal.
Speaker 2: Also happens to be an actual Democrat. I don't know, Rick,
Speaker 2: just a minute left, Rick, do you tend to check
Speaker 2: what party your Republicans are enrolled in before you run them?
Speaker 8: Sure?
Speaker 7: But as Genie pointed out, she's already a legislator under
Speaker 7: the Republican wing. It's really unique. I think that basically,
Speaker 7: the NASA county chief said, I was someone who diametrically
Speaker 7: the opposite of our previous member of Congress, the former
Speaker 7: George Santo.
Speaker 2: I guess that's a win. Then we can check that box.
Speaker 2: It's going to be an interesting race, though, and why
Speaker 2: Democrats wouldn't just vote for Tom Swazi remains a question.
Speaker 2: We'll keep tabs on this for you. You better believe
Speaker 2: with Rick, and Jeannie. I'm Joe, Matthew and Washington. We're
Speaker 2: just getting started on the fastest show in politics. This
Speaker 2: is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the
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Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our
Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just Say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Speaker 2: Now alongside Kaylee lines. Kaylee is great to see when
Speaker 2: we have breaking news on Israel here, which is not good.
Speaker 2: That just crossed the terminal a short time ago, remembering
Speaker 2: the calls from the White House for restraint to protect
Speaker 2: civilian life. There's also been a matter of protecting the hostages,
Speaker 2: many of whom we don't really know where they are.
Speaker 9: Yeah, they're whereabouts, highly uncertain given Hamas itself isn't necessarily
Speaker 9: hosting or holding all of them in the same place.
Speaker 9: There's other entities at play here. But yes, from the
Speaker 9: Israeli military itself releasing a statement today saying three hostages
Speaker 9: were mistakenly identified as threats during fighting shot out and
Speaker 9: therefore killed once they were brought back to Israeli territory
Speaker 9: and identified, they did confirm it was three Israeli hostages,
Speaker 9: just obviously, Joe, very awful to see in a reminder
Speaker 9: of how much innocent life is being lost in this conflict.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and still how little we know about the location
Speaker 2: and the identities of some of these hostages. We know
Speaker 2: it's been on the area of one hundred and twenty,
Speaker 2: but we actually don't know, Kayley, because in some cases
Speaker 2: Hamas is not holding them any any longer. Other groups
Speaker 2: are in God and the more questions we ask, the
Speaker 2: more we realize how much we don't know. Here we
Speaker 2: heard from John Kirby, of course, the retired admiral speaks
Speaker 2: for the National Security Council in the White House, about
Speaker 2: a conversation that Jake Sullivan had with Benjaminett and Yahoo
Speaker 2: Jake Sullivan in the region more shuttle diplomacy and the
Speaker 2: calls for restraint by the IDF for growing more intense,
Speaker 2: as Sullivan asked for a new phase of less intense
Speaker 2: fighting within weeks, not months. Here's John Kirby.
Speaker 10: Jake also discussed the next phase of Israel's military campaign,
Speaker 10: and he asked hard questions as we have been doing
Speaker 10: about what all that could look like.
Speaker 4: He did talk about.
Speaker 10: Possible transitioning from what we would call high intensity operations,
Speaker 10: which is what we're seeing them do now, to lower
Speaker 10: intensity operations sometime you know, in the near future. But
Speaker 10: I don't want to put a time stamp on it.
Speaker 2: And that's of course one of the real issues your
Speaker 2: is how long this go on for and have the
Speaker 2: administration continue to support the mission?
Speaker 9: Well, exactly, especially when here at home there's growing pressure
Speaker 9: from within the president's own party to take more caution
Speaker 9: when it comes to the cost and civilian life, the
Speaker 9: humanitarian aspects. There are many Democratic members who are talking
Speaker 9: about an outright ceasefire, not just a lowering of intensity
Speaker 9: that we're hearing.
Speaker 4: From the White House.
Speaker 2: Well, this is one of several issues we're dealing with
Speaker 2: today in Washington. The other, of course, brings us to
Speaker 2: another ally that's in a hot war, and that's Ukraine,
Speaker 2: and great questions about whether we're going to be able
Speaker 2: to support either of them, all hinging on a debate
Speaker 2: over the border. Kaylee, We've been steeped in this since
Speaker 2: we started talking about an hour ago. Chuck Schumer's keeping
Speaker 2: Senators in Washington. Yep, they're coming back Monday to work. Supposedly,
Speaker 2: negotiators will be busy all weekend. The question is will
Speaker 2: this be in vain somehow solving a generational problem the
Speaker 2: next four days.
Speaker 9: Yeah, you're certainly seeing a lot of skepticism on the
Speaker 9: Republican side that this realistically can get done, even beyond
Speaker 9: just a very simple outline. Then there's the other consideration,
Speaker 9: and that's the House of Representatives. Say the Senate is
Speaker 9: able to sort this out next week. The House is
Speaker 9: still gone and the House may not like whatever compromise
Speaker 9: senators reach with the White House.
Speaker 2: Well, they're telling the Senate it's already done on arrival there.
Speaker 2: And we've been talking about this for days, if not
Speaker 2: weeks now, which is a great opportunity to bring in
Speaker 2: a special guest. Jim Gilmore is back with us on Bloomberg,
Speaker 2: someone I always think of as the former governor of Virginia,
Speaker 2: the former chair of the RGA, but actually spent time
Speaker 2: in foreign affairs and an important role that brings us
Speaker 2: to this conversation now as former US Ambassador to the
Speaker 2: Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe. Mister Ambassador, I
Speaker 2: feel like I should call you a governor. But welcome
Speaker 2: back to Bloomberg. It's good to see you here. A
Speaker 2: big case needs to be made in Washington. I guess,
Speaker 2: then again, we're not really talking about the need for
Speaker 2: funding in Ukraine. We're talking about the need for border
Speaker 2: security and a border deal to unlock that funding. Should
Speaker 2: this conversation be happening the other way around.
Speaker 8: Well, we know what's happening, and that is that the
Speaker 8: Republicans believe that they're not going to ever get any
Speaker 8: serious action from the White House or from the Democratic
Speaker 8: Party unless they use the Ukrainian and Israeli money as leverage.
Speaker 8: We know what's going on. My view is that the
Speaker 8: border issue is legitimate. It's something that ought to be
Speaker 8: taken up as a consensus in the United States that
Speaker 8: it ought to have to be addressed. But I don't
Speaker 8: think we ought to lose sight of the reality here
Speaker 8: that the real strategic threat to the United States rests
Speaker 8: in Ukraine. Ukraine is the pivot on which the future
Speaker 8: is going to turn. If the Russians are able to
Speaker 8: conquer Ukraine and absorb them into the Russian Empire by force,
Speaker 8: violence and atrocity, they change the entire rules of the game,
Speaker 8: not just in Europe but worldwide, and America has everything
Speaker 8: at stake in this. It is vital that this money
Speaker 8: get passed to go to Ukraine and also to Israel.
Speaker 9: So, sir, what is your message to your fellow Republicans
Speaker 9: on Capitol Hill? Even if border security is a legitimate issue,
Speaker 9: is this really the way or are they are they
Speaker 9: going about this incorrectly?
Speaker 8: Look, if it were me, I would make darn sure
Speaker 8: that the Ukrainian money is authorized. You don't want to
Speaker 8: give encouragement to Putin. This confusion is already giving encouragement
Speaker 8: to Putin. Putin is a war criminal. He is an
Speaker 8: aggressor and it has to be stopped. And I think
Speaker 8: that there's a consensus also regarding the Israeli money as well. No, no,
Speaker 8: I think that that is vital. I understand why it's
Speaker 8: going on. Frankly, I can't see the issue here. It
Speaker 8: seems to me that the White House and the Democrats
Speaker 8: ought to be able to work on a border compromise
Speaker 8: that the Republicans can live with and that we can
Speaker 8: get on about this serious business of financing our national
Speaker 8: security in the international field.
Speaker 2: And I M sure go ahead of.
Speaker 8: Well, what I was going to say is this, Listen,
Speaker 8: I don't want to be unaware of the power of messaging,
Speaker 8: like we're doing right now on Bloomberg Radio. You need
Speaker 8: to persuade the American people that this Ukraine crisis is real.
Speaker 8: You have to persuade people it is really wars on
Speaker 8: every day and every minute. But the real crisis here
Speaker 8: is Ukraine, because that's the threat to Europe, which is
Speaker 8: a threat to the United States.
Speaker 4: If it goes the wrong way.
Speaker 8: Now, with that being said, the President has the bully pulpit.
Speaker 8: He's the one that has to make the case to
Speaker 8: the American people, and he isn't doing it.
Speaker 4: Maybe he can't.
Speaker 8: Do it, but in any case, the public has to
Speaker 8: understand exactly what's at stake here.
Speaker 2: Seemed to be trying pretty hard the other day when
Speaker 2: he hosted President Selenski at the White House. But I'm curious,
Speaker 2: Ambassador about the messaging on this legislation. Why not call
Speaker 2: this the US Defense Restocking Act or the Protect America's
Speaker 2: Defense Supply Chain Act or something. The fact is this
Speaker 2: sixty billion dollars is low largually going to states like Georgia, Texas, Alabama,
Speaker 2: that are home to our defense contractors. Are they selling
Speaker 2: it the wrong way?
Speaker 8: I think it's a reality that America's power rests not
Speaker 8: only in its national government it's military, but also our
Speaker 8: supply chain and our defense contractors. I know a lot
Speaker 8: about that. I worked with them quite a bit, and
Speaker 8: this is an element of American power. And then I
Speaker 8: going to contribute these things for nothing. You can't expect
Speaker 8: that in the capitalist system. It's not going to be expropriated.
Speaker 8: So it's reasonable that this funding is going to go
Speaker 8: in order to supply the weaponry and the other resources
Speaker 8: necessary for Ukraine to prevail. And by the way they
Speaker 8: are prevailing, Russia decided they were going to conquer the
Speaker 8: whole country. It's clear now they can't do that unless
Speaker 8: we surrender here in the United States. If the United
Speaker 8: States politics grows now to all of a sudden being
Speaker 8: defeatists or people who are surrender types of people that
Speaker 8: want to give up on this issue and put it
Speaker 8: off to another decade, We're going to pay a.
Speaker 4: Big pass for this move.
Speaker 9: Well, you may call it defeatist, ambassador, others will call
Speaker 9: it isolationists. And it seems like there is a growing
Speaker 9: number of Republicans in Congress and arguably in the presidential
Speaker 9: field as well, who are adopting that worldview. What do
Speaker 9: you think of that?
Speaker 8: I do Isolationism is exactly what's going on, you know.
Speaker 4: I characterize it.
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's appropriate, and frankly, people ought to read exactly
Speaker 8: the history of the United States in the nineteen thirties
Speaker 8: when America had a strong isolationist element about it and
Speaker 8: it kept us out of the war in the Nazis
Speaker 8: conquered Europe, and we are now are seeing the exact
Speaker 8: same thing. We need to learn the lessons of history here,
Speaker 8: and this is easier to do is the Ukrainians that
Speaker 8: are fighting for their own lives and their own safety
Speaker 8: and sovereignty. We're putting in a reasonable amount of money,
Speaker 8: diminishing that. It's very hard for Americans to focus on
Speaker 8: this when they're thinking about inflation, in the border and
Speaker 8: all the other issues that have been have emerged in
Speaker 8: this administration. But the fact is that this is a
Speaker 8: serious moment when we have an opportunity to stop this
Speaker 8: kind of aggression in Europe and preserve the principles and
Speaker 8: values of the American people.
Speaker 9: So I guess what I hear from the ambassador here, Joe,
Speaker 9: is that isolationists maybe an appropriate way of categorizing this
Speaker 9: way of thinking, but not necessarily an appropriate way of
Speaker 9: thinking during a time of such conflict around the world.
Speaker 2: Well, that's right, correct if we're wrong here, ambassador, because
Speaker 2: that's the direction that many in the Republican Party want
Speaker 2: to take. In fact, I think you could even argue
Speaker 2: that's what the front runner is calling for here in
Speaker 2: this presidential cycle. What do you tell your Republican colleagues
Speaker 2: when you hear talk like that.
Speaker 8: Well, we don't actually know what President Trump is going
Speaker 8: to do if he's reelected. I know when I was
Speaker 8: taking a strong position in Vienna at the Ossee, nobody
Speaker 8: was pushing back on me and tell me to prevaricate
Speaker 8: or to stand aside. I was pushing very hard on
Speaker 8: the Russians, on behalf of the United States. So my
Speaker 8: message to our isolation as friends is turn away from this.
Speaker 8: This is dangerous to the United States. If America draws
Speaker 8: back within itself, then at that point our ally may
Speaker 8: very well lose heart, and the politics of Europe may
Speaker 8: go haywire, and Putin may be in a position to
Speaker 8: reassemble his empire the way that he says he's going
Speaker 8: to maybe even including an attack on a NATO power,
Speaker 8: and then at that point, if we don't do anything
Speaker 8: because our isolation is then at that point that collapses NATO,
Speaker 8: which is exactly what Putin wants to do.
Speaker 9: Well, sir, we certainly appreciate your view of the world here,
Speaker 9: especially given your former ambassadorship, but also I'd like to
Speaker 9: ask you a question, and it is a Friday, this
Speaker 9: is on a bit of a lighter note, regarding a state.
Speaker 9: You were formerly governor of the state of Virginia. Back
Speaker 9: on that which has now attracted potentially two new sports teams,
Speaker 9: the Caps and the Wizard's going to cross the River,
Speaker 9: Governor or what do you think of the deal and
Speaker 9: what it must have taken to make it happen.
Speaker 8: Well, if it can actually come to fruition the way
Speaker 8: we hope, I think it's a really good thing for Virginia.
Speaker 8: It's probably a really good thing for these teams. You know,
Speaker 8: I've been following the NBA because I always follow UVA
Speaker 8: players that go to the NBA, and one of them
Speaker 8: is Anthony Gills, who plays for the Wizards.
Speaker 2: I'm looking indeed, that means everybody's got across the river, though, Ambassador,
Speaker 2: I'm going to call you Governor for this portion of
Speaker 2: the conversation, and they're not going to be able to
Speaker 2: park over there. How's this all going to come together?
Speaker 8: Well, I've spent a lot of time in Alexandria and
Speaker 8: it's pretty busy up there, I must say, so they're
Speaker 8: gonna have to figure all that out.
Speaker 2: Well. As a resident of Alexandria, this is something that
Speaker 2: I am acutely aware of, and I'm wondering how this
Speaker 2: is going to impact my home values here to speak
Speaker 2: on a very personal level. But Governor, what's the possibility
Speaker 2: were the odds of this turning back around at the
Speaker 2: eleventh hour and these two teams staying in Washington based
Speaker 2: on a counteroffer?
Speaker 8: Well, look, it's never until it's done. I learned that
Speaker 8: when I was governor. It's never done until it's done.
Speaker 8: But I think that Governor Younkin has really moved this
Speaker 8: ball along with up the field, if you will, and
Speaker 8: he's to be commended for it. I think it'll be
Speaker 8: good for the teams and good for Northern Virginia, good
Speaker 8: for economic development. But you're right about this, I'd be
Speaker 8: very careful when I got in my car. What restaurant
Speaker 8: want I wanted to go to?
Speaker 9: Very fair? Well, you mentioned Governor Younkin and governor last
Speaker 9: time you and I spoke, it was on the day
Speaker 9: of the elections in Virginia a month in change ago,
Speaker 9: where there was talk of him potentially being able to
Speaker 9: achieve or wed wave perhaps give him some momentum toward
Speaker 9: an eventual presidential run, something you yourself have tried a
Speaker 9: few times. Do you think those ambitions are diminished for
Speaker 9: Youngkin given how that actually turned out?
Speaker 8: Well, I think that you can't underestimate Governor Younkin. He's
Speaker 8: a very vigorous leader, and of course this is a
Speaker 8: nice feather in his cap. The way we've been discussing it,
Speaker 8: you know, I think that it would have been better
Speaker 8: if that election had turned on issues like crime inflation
Speaker 8: President Biden himself, I think that could have happened, and
Speaker 8: they probably would have been yielded a better result. But look,
Speaker 8: I never count out a governor of Virginia. The twelve finance,
Speaker 8: never count them out.
Speaker 2: Spoken by one Jim Gilmore, it's great to see a
Speaker 2: governor and ambassador. We always welcome you back here to Bloomberg.
Speaker 2: Happy holidays. If we don't see you again before then,
Speaker 2: fascinating conversation are these teams going? Is this real or
Speaker 2: is this conversation supposed to be the stuff that prompts
Speaker 2: them to stay.
Speaker 9: I think it's kind of anyone's guest at this point.
Speaker 9: It's real for now. Joe, Onto Virginia, whether it stays
Speaker 9: stays real.
Speaker 2: Onto Virginia by God with Jim Gilmore, I'm Joe Matthew
Speaker 2: with Kaylee Lyons. This is Bluebird. Thanks for listening to
Speaker 2: the sound on podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you
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