WEBVTT - Calls for Impeachment Continue After Mueller Remarks

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the Bloomberg Law Podcast. I'm June Grosso. Every

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<v Speaker 1>day we bring you insight and analysis into the most

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<v Speaker 1>important legal news of the day. You can find more

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<v Speaker 1>episodes of the Bloomberg Law Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud

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<v Speaker 1>and on Bloomberg dot com slash podcasts. On Wednesday, Special

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<v Speaker 1>Counsel Robert Mueller broke his almost two year vow of

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<v Speaker 1>silence to say that he couldn't reach a conclusion on

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<v Speaker 1>whether President Trump had obstructed justice. If we had had

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<v Speaker 1>confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime,

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<v Speaker 1>we would have said so. Now Mueller's statements led more

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<v Speaker 1>Democrats to call for impeachment, something the President says the

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<v Speaker 1>courts won't allow. I don't see how they can, because

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<v Speaker 1>they're possibly allowed, although I can't imagine the courts allowing it.

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<v Speaker 1>The courts, of course, have no role in whether Congress

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<v Speaker 1>can or cannot impeach a president. Joining me as former

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<v Speaker 1>federal prosecutor Robert Mann's a partner McCarter in English, Bob,

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<v Speaker 1>did Mueller's statements clarify what was in his report? Because

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<v Speaker 1>it seems that people heard what they wanted to hear,

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<v Speaker 1>and there were as many questions before as after. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>it was a little bit of a political or shock

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<v Speaker 1>test where everybody who listened to that could take away

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<v Speaker 1>whatever they wanted to hear to some extent. But I

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<v Speaker 1>do think Mueller made one point that was crystal clear

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<v Speaker 1>and that may have been misunderstood until he appeared for

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<v Speaker 1>that press conference, and that is that he said that

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<v Speaker 1>charging a sitting president was never an option, no matter

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<v Speaker 1>what the evidence was. So what his investigation was really

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<v Speaker 1>all about was his other question, which was could they

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<v Speaker 1>clear the president of these allegations? And the answer to

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<v Speaker 1>that was, as to the question of collusion, they did

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<v Speaker 1>clear the president. As to the question of obstruction of justice,

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<v Speaker 1>they did not. So, as you say, Mueller accepted the

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<v Speaker 1>Justice Department policy that a sitting president can't be indicted

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<v Speaker 1>and said that even if the charge is kept under

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<v Speaker 1>seal and hidden from public view, that also is prohibited.

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<v Speaker 1>But during Watergate, Leon Jeworski persuaded a grand jury to

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<v Speaker 1>name Richard Nixon as an unindicted co conspirator, So why

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<v Speaker 1>couldn't Mueller have done the same. Well, the president actually

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<v Speaker 1>was named as an unindicted co conspirator in the Michael

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<v Speaker 1>Cone case in New York but but not by name.

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<v Speaker 1>The Department Justice policy says that if you're going to

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<v Speaker 1>make allegations about an individual, you have to charge that individual.

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<v Speaker 1>And the logic behind that is it's unfair to charge

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<v Speaker 1>somebody with a crime, or to suggest that somebody committed

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<v Speaker 1>a crime, but never give them their day in court

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<v Speaker 1>in order to clear their name. So Mueller took that guideline,

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<v Speaker 1>tying it with the other guideline, which says you can

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<v Speaker 1>indict a sitting president. And essentially his mandate was to

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<v Speaker 1>determine whether or not he could clear the president, but

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<v Speaker 1>he was not going to find that the president had

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<v Speaker 1>committed a crime, and that's where he came up short. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>Attorney General Barr interpreted there's rules differently because when he

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<v Speaker 1>gave his summary of what was in the Mueller report,

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<v Speaker 1>he took it upon himself to clear the president of

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<v Speaker 1>of wrongdoing. And that's something that I think was directly

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<v Speaker 1>contrary to what was actually in the Mueller report. And

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<v Speaker 1>I think Mueller came pretty close to saying that he

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<v Speaker 1>broke ranks with the Attorney General on that issue. Mueller

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<v Speaker 1>made it perfectly clear that he did not want to

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<v Speaker 1>testify any further than what he's done in his past,

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<v Speaker 1>and that the report speaks for itself. The report is

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<v Speaker 1>his testimony. But is it likely that Congress will end

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<v Speaker 1>up subpoenaing him and will he have to abide by

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<v Speaker 1>a subpoena? Well, that's the big question. Uh. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>Robert Mueller is kind of an old school prosecutor. He's

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<v Speaker 1>known as sort of a Joe Friday, just the facts,

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<v Speaker 1>ma'am kind of guy. And I think it was quite

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<v Speaker 1>clear from that statement, which had been carefully scripted and

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<v Speaker 1>just read before reporters taking no questions, that he was

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<v Speaker 1>going to heu pretty closely to the words in that report. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>that doesn't mean that he will not respond to a subpoena,

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<v Speaker 1>but I think it's gonna be difficult for people in

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<v Speaker 1>Congress to pry additional information out of him. He is

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<v Speaker 1>not somebody who has uh gravitated towards the limelight. He

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<v Speaker 1>likes to simply do his job issues report and let

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<v Speaker 1>the report, as you said, speak for itself. So he

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<v Speaker 1>may be summoned to testify, and I think if he

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<v Speaker 1>is asked, he will testify, But I think Congress is

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<v Speaker 1>going to have a hard time getting additional information out

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<v Speaker 1>of him. It certainly seems so. Now, how much was

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<v Speaker 1>his report designed to take the heat off his investigators

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<v Speaker 1>and prosecutors with this investigation of the investigation by the

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<v Speaker 1>a G. Now, Well, he did address that issue, although

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<v Speaker 1>somewhat indirectly. He stood up for his team conducting the investigation.

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<v Speaker 1>He called it a fair and independent investigation, and he

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<v Speaker 1>said that his team was of the highest integrity, And

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<v Speaker 1>that was clearly a direct response to the ceaseless attacks

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<v Speaker 1>on his team the Trump Some Trump supporters had called

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<v Speaker 1>them angry democrats. I believe the president had called them

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<v Speaker 1>angry democrats. He referred to the entire investigation as a

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<v Speaker 1>witch hunt. Clearly, this is Robert Mueller's understated way to

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<v Speaker 1>stand up for not only the integrity of the investigation,

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<v Speaker 1>but the integrity of the prosecutors who he hand picked

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<v Speaker 1>to help him with his investigation. Many have said that

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<v Speaker 1>Mueller was basically calling for the House to start impeachment proceedings.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that your view? Well, he clearly kicked it over

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<v Speaker 1>to the House by saying that there is another mechanism

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<v Speaker 1>that can be used to determine whether or not the

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<v Speaker 1>president has committed wrongdoing. And although he did not speak

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<v Speaker 1>the word impeachment. That is clearly what he was what

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<v Speaker 1>he was referring to. So it's now really up to

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<v Speaker 1>Congress to decipher exactly what is in that report. And

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<v Speaker 1>as as you mentioned earlier, the question of impeachment is Charlie,

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<v Speaker 1>a political question rather than a legal one. So it's

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<v Speaker 1>really going to depend, I think, in large part on

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<v Speaker 1>taking the pulse of the country, and the Democrats will

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<v Speaker 1>have to decide whether or not it's in their political

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<v Speaker 1>interests to proceed with impeachment. And Bob, if they do

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<v Speaker 1>proceed with impeachment, do the courts give them more leeway

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<v Speaker 1>in calling witnesses for example, Don McGann and some of

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<v Speaker 1>the other witnesses that the president is saying cannot testify

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<v Speaker 1>because of executive privilege. Yeah, I think it would give

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<v Speaker 1>them broader authority in that regard, because then they will

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<v Speaker 1>be looking at the conduct of the president himself as

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<v Speaker 1>opposed to simply being hamstrung by the question of whether

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<v Speaker 1>or not their inquiry is driven by legislation and having

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<v Speaker 1>a legislative purpose. So it would give them a broader

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<v Speaker 1>mandate and probably a greater ability to force people to

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<v Speaker 1>testify before them about a minute here. So what's next

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<v Speaker 1>in your view? Well, I think what's One of the

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<v Speaker 1>things that came out of this that was quite interesting

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<v Speaker 1>was that Robert Mueller made a point of saying that

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<v Speaker 1>one of the things that he found was Russia's concerted

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<v Speaker 1>attack to attack on our political system. He really looked

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<v Speaker 1>at the report as standing up for our institutions, standing

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<v Speaker 1>up for process, standing up for the rule of law.

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<v Speaker 1>I think you can contrast that somewhat with the response

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<v Speaker 1>by the Attorney General, who looked more at whether or

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<v Speaker 1>not he felt that the report and implicated wrongdoing by

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<v Speaker 1>the president. So on the one hand, the Attorney General

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<v Speaker 1>was looking at this more as whether or not there

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<v Speaker 1>was individual wrongdoing, while Robert Mueller was looking more as

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<v Speaker 1>to whether or not there had been damaged to our institutions,

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<v Speaker 1>to the process during the election, and that really was

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<v Speaker 1>his focus. I will have to see whether Congress takes

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<v Speaker 1>up that a to you and strives to protect the

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<v Speaker 1>elections coming forward. All right, thanks so much, Bob. That's

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<v Speaker 1>repert minds of McCarter in English. Thanks for listening to

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<v Speaker 1>the Bloomberg Law podcast. You can subscribe and listen to

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<v Speaker 1>the show on Apple Podcasts. SoundCloud and on bloomberg dot

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<v Speaker 1>com slash podcast. I'm June Brosso. This is Bloomberg Ye