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Speaker 1: Conversations on life, style, beauty, and relationships. It's The Velvet's

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Speaker 1: Edge Podcast with Kelly Henderson.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I'm here with Jason Van Ruhler.

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Speaker 3: Licensed Therapists c SET Certified, your speaker, your hot podcast host.

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Speaker 2: Wow, words are hard sometimes.

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Speaker 3: I love that you are CESAT trained And we were

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Speaker 3: just talking a little bit about some of the recovery

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Speaker 3: world in Nashville. But a lot of people don't even

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Speaker 3: understand what that means. And so for people listening who

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Speaker 3: might be looking for a therapist and maybe want some

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Speaker 3: insight into the different kinds of therapy, can you explain

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Speaker 3: what c SET certified means.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so it's a certified sex addiction therapist, and so

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Speaker 4: i'm that and then I supervise people coming into the field,

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Speaker 4: and so basically what that means is now more than ever,

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Speaker 4: there are people struggling a lot with things like pornography

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Speaker 4: and fidelity, and so my special training, or one of

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Speaker 4: my special trainings is to help people kind of rebuild

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Speaker 4: from that and also get sober, work on the relationships,

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Speaker 4: and develop healthy intimacy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and so I love that you do so much

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Speaker 3: work in the addiction world, because to me, it really

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Speaker 3: ties into relationships, which is why you're here today. I

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Speaker 3: found you on Instagram. I love your Instagram by the way.

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Speaker 3: You do really great videos. And one of the things

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Speaker 3: you say on your Instagram that I think is so

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Speaker 3: important is Instagram is not therapy, which I'm like, yes,

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Speaker 3: because I think I hear a lot of people these days.

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Speaker 3: You know, you can find so much content out.

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Speaker 2: There with great therapist.

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Speaker 3: But you're like, wait, wait, wait, wait wait wait, this

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Speaker 3: is not just the thing you do to get like fixed.

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Speaker 3: As you watch my Instagram videos, tell me about the problem.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, of course, I'm so good that probably you are

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Speaker 4: a curate if you watch my videos. I'm being tengue

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Speaker 4: in cheek there. I think I think now more than ever.

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Speaker 4: I mean, like you said, the struggle is there's lots

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Speaker 4: of good stuff out there, and so we can get

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Speaker 4: a good start, we can get some awareness, but what's

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Speaker 4: true is it's not tailored to us, and without it

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Speaker 4: doesn't really get us anywhere. And so I've been really

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Speaker 4: just concerned and trying to be intentional about I want

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Speaker 4: to help people kind of like recognize a place to start,

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Speaker 4: but I don't want them to think that the place

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Speaker 4: they're starting is also the end, because those are two

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Speaker 4: different spots.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well, so there is great content on your Instagram, but

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Speaker 3: a lot of the videos focus on relationships and healthy relationships,

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Speaker 3: which is again how I found you. And so it

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Speaker 3: made me start thinking because you know, I do a

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Speaker 3: lot of interviews on this podcast just about trauma and

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Speaker 3: diving into your childhood and inner work and healing.

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Speaker 2: But then the.

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Speaker 3: Goal and a lot of our lives is healthy relationships,

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Speaker 3: and not just with other people but also with yourself.

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Speaker 3: We talk about the whys and the how how you

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Speaker 3: got there, but then it's like and then what And

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Speaker 3: so your your content was really intriguing to me because

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Speaker 3: you're talking about that about the then like where do

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Speaker 3: we go after this? So I think a lot of

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Speaker 3: people can say things like I want a healthy relationship,

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Speaker 3: but like where do we start? That's the part that

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Speaker 3: seems to be so overwhelming. So if you had to

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Speaker 3: like put into bullet points where people could start, where

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Speaker 3: do we start?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? Well, I think just an awareness that we want

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Speaker 4: a healthy relationship, right, and then some recognition of is

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Speaker 4: that where I'm at or is that an aspirational place

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Speaker 4: I'd like to be? I think just for me, you know,

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Speaker 4: I tell people that a lot of why I became

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Speaker 4: a therapist is selfish, right, because I came from a

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Speaker 4: place where I didn't know what a healthy relationship was

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Speaker 4: and I wanted to. And so a lot of what

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Speaker 4: drove me was just this realization of I'm not sure

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Speaker 4: how to get there, but I know I want that,

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Speaker 4: versus what I came from. And so I think really

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Speaker 4: getting started is just kind of having awareness about, like,

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Speaker 4: where did you come from? And is that something you

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Speaker 4: want to replicate? Is that something that you want to

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Speaker 4: change drastically? Do you want to shift that a little bit?

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Speaker 4: And then where do I find people who can teach

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Speaker 4: me how to do that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: And I guess what other question would be is what

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Speaker 3: even is a healthy relationship? You know, because you said

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Speaker 3: you started your journey with thinking I want this, but

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Speaker 3: I don't know how to get it. But did you

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Speaker 3: even know what you were looking for?

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Speaker 4: Then? No? No, I mean I think I think in

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Speaker 4: some ways it's kind of like when you get that

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Speaker 4: dresser from my Kia and like you have the gist

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Speaker 4: of what a dresser's supposed to look like, Yeah, there's

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Speaker 4: like these hundred pages of instructions. You're like I don't

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Speaker 4: know what to do with that, Like I just I

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Speaker 4: just want to get there. And so I think sometimes

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Speaker 4: when we have wounds or trauma or past experiences that

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Speaker 4: inform this stuff, we feel like a healthy relationship is

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Speaker 4: a destination that a process. And so I think even

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Speaker 4: for myself personally, when I got into this business, like

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Speaker 4: for me that was that was like the destination. You know,

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Speaker 4: you kind of you reach a healthy relationship and then

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Speaker 4: I don't know, like the skies open up and like

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Speaker 4: something amazing happens, there's unicorns, and yeah, I didn't like,

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Speaker 4: you're done. And I think what I've learned along the

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Speaker 4: way is no, it's just like it's more of a process.

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Speaker 4: It's a thing that we do. It's a way of life,

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Speaker 4: but but not you know, the thing that we're probably

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Speaker 4: ever going to arrive at in the way that we

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Speaker 4: want to.

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Speaker 3: I like that the reminder that it's a process and

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Speaker 3: a journey. So you said the first step would be

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Speaker 3: to just you know, kind of have the awareness that

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Speaker 3: this is what I'm looking for, But.

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Speaker 2: Then what does it look like after that?

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Speaker 3: Because if it is such a journey, how do we

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Speaker 3: know what we're doing or how do we even try

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Speaker 3: to start navigating that.

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Speaker 4: So I think just the easiest thing is to identify,

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Speaker 4: you know, it's just what I want? Is it not

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Speaker 4: what I want? And if it isn't, then who has

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Speaker 4: what I want?

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Speaker 1: Like?

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Speaker 4: Where would I go and identify? Like that person seems

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Speaker 4: to be doing the thing I want to do, right,

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Speaker 4: they seem to have the relationship I want, they seem

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Speaker 4: to have the confidence I want, or whatever that thing is.

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Speaker 4: And you start there. You literally you put yourself in

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Speaker 4: places with those types of people. So that might be

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Speaker 4: a therapist, it might be like a mentor couple, might

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Speaker 4: be a community group. I mean, any one of those things.

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Speaker 4: But you go where the people you want to be

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Speaker 4: like are And I know, the whole maxim about you

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Speaker 4: know you are the people you spend time with is cliche,

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Speaker 4: but it's also true. So if we want to have

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Speaker 4: this healthy relationship, we got to start with who we

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Speaker 4: think has one.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's not just about relationships like romantic, right,

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Speaker 3: because I mean, for me, what I've noticed in my

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Speaker 3: life is the things that I bump up against in

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Speaker 3: romantic relationships. Even if I get out of that relationship,

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Speaker 3: then I'll still you know, I'm still me, and I'm

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Speaker 3: still stuck with me, and so I still start bumping

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Speaker 3: up against the same issues in my work, in my

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Speaker 3: relationship with myself, and for me, most of it has

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Speaker 3: ended up being some sort of healing that I need

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Speaker 3: within me to be able to show up differently in

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Speaker 3: all areas of my life.

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Speaker 4: I think a relationship with ourselves is really the model

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Speaker 4: for every other relationship, right, because we recruit other people

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Speaker 4: into that space, and the problems we have often are

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Speaker 4: just exacerbated, right. And so if we're coming into relationship

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Speaker 4: with some woundedness, if we don't take care of that,

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Speaker 4: it's just going to show up in the relationship, you know.

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Speaker 4: I think sometimes we believe the relationship will solve it.

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Speaker 4: And man, I love that idea because that idea means,

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Speaker 4: like you don't have to do anything except forget to

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Speaker 4: a relationship.

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Speaker 2: Great.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean that's awesome. I mean, if you can

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Speaker 4: swing it, cool, But most of the time you're going

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Speaker 4: to be the same person. And so if that person

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Speaker 4: is not someone that you like, if you don't have

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Speaker 4: that healthy relationship with yourself, chances are romantic relationships or

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Speaker 4: friendships or professional relationships are going to be a challenge.

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Speaker 3: Right with your work, I mean you're doing a lot,

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Speaker 3: like we said, with addiction based situations. What are the

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Speaker 3: things that you're seeing people bump up against when they're

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Speaker 3: saying like, Okay, yeah I need therapy, I want to work.

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Speaker 3: There's some things. What are the main things you're having

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Speaker 3: to work through with people?

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Speaker 4: Some of the themes that I see are just am

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Speaker 4: I worthy? Right? Am I worthy of a relationship? Like?

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Speaker 4: Is that for me? Like I know where I came from,

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Speaker 4: I haven't had it. Maybe that's something about me? Or

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Speaker 4: we might wonder am I okay? Or am I lovable?

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Speaker 4: Or I'll here, am I too much? And so when

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Speaker 4: we have those kind of core wounds or I'll say,

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Speaker 4: you know, things that are kind of tattooed on our heart,

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Speaker 4: we carry those around with us and so we kind

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Speaker 4: of find people to help answer that question. And that's

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Speaker 4: not always so helpful for us.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 4: So if we say, you know, I don't know that

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Speaker 4: I'm enough, and you tell me I'm enough, but the

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Speaker 4: cost is a really crappy relationship. I don't want you

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Speaker 4: to settle for that, right, I want you to know

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Speaker 4: how to answer that question for yourself.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so interesting in our culture because I feel

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Speaker 3: like so much of our life and maybe this is

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Speaker 3: just I'm making this up about social media, but it

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Speaker 3: feels like we like lead with this version of ourself

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Speaker 3: that seems like we have it all together. And so

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Speaker 3: it's so interesting to me when I'm really digging deeper

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Speaker 3: in conversations with people, how many people really do resonate

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Speaker 3: with that one thing, like I'm not enough or I'm

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Speaker 3: not worthy. And it's so funny to me or interesting,

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Speaker 3: I guess because if you base it off of someone's Instagram,

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Speaker 3: they think they're worthy, you know, like on the outside,

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Speaker 3: people just.

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Speaker 2: Lead with that, it seems.

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Speaker 3: But it seems like a big core issue in our

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Speaker 3: country specifically of just like not knowing our own worthiness,

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Speaker 3: and maybe it's a disconnection from self.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think it has a lot to do with

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Speaker 4: where we come from and how we're raised right, and

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Speaker 4: so albeit maybe our parents our caretakers didn't mean to

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Speaker 4: impart that question on us, we might have internalized that,

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Speaker 4: and so I think a lot of times it stems

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Speaker 4: from past experience. But to your point, you know, we

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Speaker 4: live in a place where you put the best stuff

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Speaker 4: out right, you don't put that other stuff out, and

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Speaker 4: so the challenges is we're seemingly more connected than ever,

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Speaker 4: but actually less connected because we're not connected in vulnerability.

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Speaker 4: And the thing is is that people connect on vulnerability,

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Speaker 4: not the presentation we make. And I think that's the

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Speaker 4: struggle all of us have, is putting that truth out there,

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Speaker 4: which is, you know, it's great and it's terrible. Sometimes

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Speaker 4: it's both.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I mean as far as vulnerability goes, I

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Speaker 3: think there's like this balance, right, because then we see

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Speaker 3: this other thing happening on I'm using social media.

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Speaker 2: I don't know why. It's just really pinging me right now,

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Speaker 2: but over sharing, and.

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Speaker 3: So it's like this balance between like what is vulnerability

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Speaker 3: if you had to define it, what does that actually mean?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: I think vulnerability, to me, in practical terms, just showing

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Speaker 4: ourselves to others, right, And so I think there's degrees

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Speaker 4: of that. And to your point, we have to know

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Speaker 4: our audience and not everybody's our audience. And so I

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Speaker 4: think is my social media platform my audience for my deepest,

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Speaker 4: most vulnerable stuff. Probably not, Like I don't know that

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Speaker 4: that's what they signed up for. A great friend or

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Speaker 4: a therapist might be. But we have to we have

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Speaker 4: to know who's going to be able to receive that

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Speaker 4: and help us with it. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I like the word receiving because it's also about safety, right, Like,

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Speaker 3: not everyone gets to know all your insides because they're

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Speaker 3: not safe as people who can hold that information without

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Speaker 3: judgment or anything like that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and they might not even want that job. I mean,

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Speaker 4: that's right. You know, they might not be volunteering for that.

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Speaker 4: And so some of the challenges that we have to have,

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Speaker 4: even if we want that healthy relationship is just learning

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Speaker 4: how to identify safe and healthy people to share with, because,

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Speaker 4: like you said, it's not going to be everybody. It's

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Speaker 4: nothing against people, but not everyone's going to be in

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Speaker 4: the inner circle.

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Speaker 3: Okay, if you had to put together some keystones of

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Speaker 3: a healthy relationship, what would they be.

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Speaker 4: You know, they'd probably be boring and stuff that you've

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Speaker 4: heard before, but they're true anyway, right. I mean, I

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Speaker 4: think it's it's communication. I think it's finding a way

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Speaker 4: to express intimacy. There's different types of intimacy, and so

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Speaker 4: it's not just sex, but how do we connect on

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Speaker 4: an intimate level? I think do we have shared values

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Speaker 4: and principles? Do we have some similar interests don't have

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Speaker 4: to be identical, but like, are we generally headed in

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Speaker 4: the same direction, because that's really important.

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Speaker 2: So that is really important.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, because otherwise how do we get there? Right?

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Speaker 4: So if I'm going left and you're going right, I mean,

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Speaker 4: that's like a story book romance. But I don't know

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Speaker 4: how that works out after ten or twenty years.

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Speaker 3: Because there's an interesting thing, like I've heard people say,

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Speaker 3: you know, well, this is my hobby. I don't really

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Speaker 3: want my partner to go do that with me. But

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Speaker 3: I see what you're saying because a lot of times,

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Speaker 3: to me, the things that you're passionate about and especially

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Speaker 3: what you give your free time to kind of line

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Speaker 3: up with your value system in some ways. And so

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Speaker 3: if they're out of line, then you're, just like you said,

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Speaker 3: going in completely different directions.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and that becomes a challenge. And not that we

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Speaker 4: can't overcome challenges for communication and things like that, but

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Speaker 4: it's just another challenge. So right, I think, you know,

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Speaker 4: if you want that relationship, you have to be able

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Speaker 4: to look at how does this all add up and

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Speaker 4: try to be objective, which is hard to do in

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Speaker 4: a new relationship.

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Speaker 3: That's a really good point. Okay, Well, as I mentioned,

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Speaker 3: I've found you on Instagram. I love the videos you

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Speaker 3: post and a lot of the times you do these.

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Speaker 2: Like three ways to X, Y and Z.

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Speaker 3: So if you guys are looking for tips on relationships

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Speaker 3: on some of the things we've been talking about in

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Speaker 3: a little more detail, go check Jason's Instagram out. I

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Speaker 3: kind of wanted to do there was a couple that

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Speaker 3: have really stuck out to me lately, and so if

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Speaker 3: we could do maybe a little bit of a rapid

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Speaker 3: fire review of those videos, I'll just tell you the

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Speaker 3: one they are, and then maybe you can kind of

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Speaker 3: review with the listeners what you were talking about in

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Speaker 3: these videos. But one of the things that I loved

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Speaker 3: recently was you said healthy couples circle back. Yeah, tell

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Speaker 3: us about that video.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. So I think, you know, when we're conflict avoiding,

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Speaker 4: we can do this thing where we kind of run

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Speaker 4: into conflict and then we say that was super uncomfortable.

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Speaker 4: I was angry, and let's just not do that again,

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Speaker 4: and both parties just kind of agree that, like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: it would just be better if we can do that,

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Speaker 4: and so the feelings pass and then they just keep going.

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Speaker 4: And so I think what we need to do is

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Speaker 4: we need to circle back, because oftentimes what happens is

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Speaker 4: that if we don't deal with it, resentment develops. And

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Speaker 4: so even though the feelings might temporarily subside, the resentment

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Speaker 4: is still there and the conflict or the problem is

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Speaker 4: still unresolved. And so that circling back thing is important.

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Speaker 4: I got some really good feedback actually, So that's one

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Speaker 4: of the benefits of getting to do this is I'm

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Speaker 4: always getting good feedback too. And someone had said something about,

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Speaker 4: you know, what if we're always just circling back, and

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Speaker 4: so I would add that, like, circling back is important

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Speaker 4: if we're working towards resolution, right, So like rehashing or

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Speaker 4: beating something to death without resolution isn't really beneficial. But

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Speaker 4: what I'm kind of calling people to do is like

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Speaker 4: circle back and resolve.

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Speaker 3: It, okay, And so what if you are finding yourself

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Speaker 3: consistently circling back to the same issue, is that when

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Speaker 3: to go ask for help?

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Speaker 4: Perfect, Yeah, if we can't resolve it, I would just

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Speaker 4: you know, if you come in to talk to me,

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Speaker 4: like I would say, hey, tell me three things you've

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Speaker 4: tried to resolve this, Like, give me three attempts you've

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Speaker 4: made and if you've made three and they haven't worked,

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Speaker 4: then yet it's probably time to recruit some help for that.

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Speaker 3: Another thing I loved is this video you did that

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Speaker 3: you pointed out the superpowers of trauma survivors, because you know,

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Speaker 3: there's so much out there about the wounds of trauma

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Speaker 3: and how to work through trauma, but no one really

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Speaker 3: talks about how resilient so many trauma survivors are. And

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Speaker 3: then in my experience, exactly what you talked about in

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Speaker 3: this vide ko, if you do do the work after

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Speaker 3: whatever said trauma, you've experienced the kind of capacity that

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Speaker 3: I see people have for human connection, love, all of

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Speaker 3: the things seems to be so much greater. So can

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Speaker 3: you speak to all of those topics and what you

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Speaker 3: talked about in this video a little bit?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think, like you said, we spend

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Speaker 4: a lot of time focusing on problems, right and just saying, like,

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Speaker 4: you know, if you're a traumas forever, like this is

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Speaker 4: what comes with it, and it's sort of like this

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Speaker 4: terrible thing, right, here's what you get. You get all

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Speaker 4: these problems, and I just think, like, what about the

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Speaker 4: other side, because what I know about our behaviors that

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Speaker 4: there's both parts of that, right. In some situations it

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Speaker 4: is negative and challenging. In other situations is helpful. And

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Speaker 4: so while I know that no one listening, myself included,

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Speaker 4: would like to volunteer to have a traumatic experience, right,

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Speaker 4: No one's saying that, I think that sometimes when we

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Speaker 4: do the work, like you said, there could be good

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Speaker 4: and beautiful things that come from that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean, in my experience, the most dramatic experiences in

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Speaker 3: my life, like you said, have not been fun. But

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Speaker 3: I always like the version of myself after the experience

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Speaker 3: so much more because it just like they always say,

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Speaker 3: you know, when your heart gets broken, it cracks open,

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Speaker 3: and actually that's when the love can really flow out.

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Speaker 3: And so like what I've noticed about who I've becomes,

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Speaker 3: I have developed a greater sense of empathy because of

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Speaker 3: the work I've done on myself. My ability to show

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Speaker 3: up in relationships is better than it was before. As

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Speaker 3: crazy as it is to say, because a lot of

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Speaker 3: the trauma has come from relationships, Yeah, it just seems

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Speaker 3: like if you do the work, you're actually hopefully going

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Speaker 3: to find yourself on the better side.

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Speaker 4: After Absolutely, you have that depth of understanding and experience,

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Speaker 4: and it is, like you said, it's painful, it's challenging

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Speaker 4: to do that work, and yet there can be good

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Speaker 4: that comes from that. And so my feeling is like,

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Speaker 4: why don't we talk about the good right Because if

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Speaker 4: I'm struggling, you know, with the traumatic experience, I don't

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Speaker 4: know that I need to be told about all the

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Speaker 4: bad things right away. Maybe I need some hope. And

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Speaker 4: so my kind of thought process as a therapist and

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Speaker 4: just as a person who's had trauma, is I needed hope.

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Speaker 4: I need to hope more than anything else at that point,

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Speaker 4: and so that's what I'm going to try to give people.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and do you find that it takes away the

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Speaker 3: terminal uniqueness when you start talking about all the aspects

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Speaker 3: of it, Like when you go through something traumatic, a

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Speaker 3: lot of times it's just isolating and you feel like,

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Speaker 3: oh my gosh, my life is terrible. These things happen

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Speaker 3: to me. I'm isolated in this. And then if you

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Speaker 3: can find a safe space to open up, I think

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Speaker 3: you realize a lot of times that most of us

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Speaker 3: have had some sort of trauma at some point in

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Speaker 3: our life, and so it's really learning how to process

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Speaker 3: through it, navigate, get to the other side, and then

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Speaker 3: use it in a positive, a positive way. But you

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Speaker 3: aren't alone, I guess, is my whole point.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and I'm with you. I mean, I think one

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Speaker 4: of the most probably beautiful and heartbreaking things that I

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Speaker 4: experienced doing work with people is when they share an

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Speaker 4: experience that there's certain no one else has had and

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Speaker 4: they find that other people have in fact had that. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: And it's just a beautiful thing to see people kind

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Speaker 4: of open up and be received and feel like they're

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Speaker 4: in community. But it's also terrible in the sense that

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Speaker 4: sometimes we wait years to make that realization. Right, Sometimes

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Speaker 4: we carry a thing that we're certain is only ours

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Speaker 4: that no one else has experienced for five, ten, twenty years,

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Speaker 4: and it costs us quite a bit. And so that's

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Speaker 4: the challenge, right, is getting that out and getting connected

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Speaker 4: because to your point, in some ways, to lose things

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Speaker 4: and have pain and trauma like that's part of the

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Speaker 4: human experience. It's again, nothing we're signing up for, but

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Speaker 4: it is part of the deal quite often.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 4: Okay.

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Speaker 3: Tell us about the video that talks about compromise versus sacrifice.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, I love a good sacrifice. I mean, I

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Speaker 4: think sacrifices are awesome. Yeah, they're good. You get to

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Speaker 4: kind of be the hero and save the day, which

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Speaker 4: is one of my favorite things to do. But at

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Speaker 4: the end of the day, you know, maybe it's not

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Speaker 4: so great because maybe the more you sacrifice, you start

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Speaker 4: to like keep score a little bit and you start

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Speaker 4: to remember, you know, like I sacrificed a little more

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Speaker 4: than you did. And so I think the challenge is

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Speaker 4: is just to kind of have some awareness about that,

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Speaker 4: because some of us fall into the sacrifice category pretty easily.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And then the other thing I was thinking about when

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Speaker 3: you were talking was the more I sacrifice, sometimes the

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Speaker 3: more inauthentic I'm actually being, because I like end up

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Speaker 3: giving up so much at myself that I lose myself

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Speaker 3: to the relationship or whatever the need is. And that's

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Speaker 3: not I mean, one is not healthy. But that's not,

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Speaker 3: like I said, authentic either, And so there is no

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Speaker 3: basis for true connection or vulnerability when you're constantly in

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Speaker 3: that rescuing quote unquote sacrifice position.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Absolutely, And then what's difficult is I think eventually,

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Speaker 4: if we do it often enough, we kind of set

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Speaker 4: the tone of the relationship as being I'm going to

439
00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:53,879
Speaker 4: sacrifice or you'll sacrifice, and if we're not careful, we

440
00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:56,840
Speaker 4: become kind of this ridiculous parody of ourselves, right we're

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Speaker 4: just like, I don't like, who is this person that's

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00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,560
Speaker 4: say and doing these things? And that's not me? And

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00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:04,480
Speaker 4: I did it, you know, the first five times because

444
00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:06,000
Speaker 4: I thought it would make it go away, And now

445
00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:07,919
Speaker 4: this is this is kind of a permanent thing in

446
00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:10,880
Speaker 4: our relationship, and that's when the problems really start.

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Speaker 3: Is that why people I know, for me, I resonate

448
00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:16,960
Speaker 3: with like getting stuck in that loop because just like

449
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,800
Speaker 3: what you just said, it just seems easier. Like in

450
00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:21,440
Speaker 3: the beginning, you're like, let me just fix this. I

451
00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:23,479
Speaker 3: can do this really fast and it'll be done. But

452
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,679
Speaker 3: ultimately to have the conversation to find the compromise and

453
00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,840
Speaker 3: something that works for everyone, am I take a little longer,

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Speaker 3: but like in the long run, it actually becomes easier.

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Speaker 3: Like that Is that how we get ourselves in that

456
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,520
Speaker 3: pickle of sacrifice is just thinking like, oh, this seems

457
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Speaker 3: like the easy way out.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. I think it's feeling like it's the easy way out.

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Speaker 4: I think it's also conflict of avoidance. I think it's

460
00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:47,560
Speaker 4: some of those kind of am I enough, I too much?

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00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:51,439
Speaker 4: Kind of managing the other person. But the challenge is,

462
00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,800
Speaker 4: you know, it's anxiety provoking to give someone space to

463
00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:58,080
Speaker 4: figure it out. Like I would rather just sacrifice than

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00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:00,639
Speaker 4: to give you space and see if you act figure

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00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:04,520
Speaker 4: it out or not, because I risk rejection in that, right,

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00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,119
Speaker 4: I mean. And so it's I remember like when I

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00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:09,640
Speaker 4: first became a therapist, you know, there would be these

468
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:12,680
Speaker 4: times and someone would present a problem and I would

469
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:14,320
Speaker 4: know how to solve it, and so I would want

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00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:16,880
Speaker 4: to just like jump right in and solve it because

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00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:20,199
Speaker 4: it gave me anxiety to wait it out, right, like

472
00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:23,719
Speaker 4: waiting five or tutes. I was like, I don't know,

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Speaker 4: and you know, I'm this ball of anxiety over there,

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00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:29,240
Speaker 4: and it was just like, well, that's about me, not them, right,

475
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:31,760
Speaker 4: And so I don't know. You know, when you think

476
00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:34,360
Speaker 4: about relationships, not everybody is going to be your person,

477
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:36,440
Speaker 4: and so you got to give it space and see

478
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,159
Speaker 4: if they are. But that's that's stressful in some ways

479
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:39,600
Speaker 4: for us.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, so stressful.

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Speaker 3: I just got stressed even when you said that, because

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00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,160
Speaker 3: I'm like, that's exactly it. I never thought about that though,

483
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:48,439
Speaker 3: But you do have to like give things the space

484
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:52,040
Speaker 3: and detached from the outcome, which ugh for a part.

485
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,200
Speaker 4: Rather than just manage it. I can use that sacrifice

486
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:54,560
Speaker 4: to do it.

487
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:58,480
Speaker 3: Just let me do it, I mean much, even though

488
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:02,320
Speaker 3: again it's not really safe ultimately, but in the moment,

489
00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:04,520
Speaker 3: it's like, what can I do to make this anxiety

490
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:05,879
Speaker 3: go away immediately?

491
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:06,760
Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Amazing, Well, Jason, thank you so much. These are amazing tips.

494
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:12,159
Speaker 3: And like I said, if you guys are interested in

495
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:14,320
Speaker 3: any sort of videos that can help you kind of

496
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:16,760
Speaker 3: through your day, you can follow Jason on Instagram. Tell

497
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:18,520
Speaker 3: the people where your Instagram is.

498
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's Jason dot van Ruler and I do pretty

499
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:24,919
Speaker 4: much daily or a couple of times a day videos

500
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,359
Speaker 4: about kind of what we talked about, what are relationships,

501
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,479
Speaker 4: what are kind of areas of relationships we can look at,

502
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:31,080
Speaker 4: and how do we get to a healthier place.

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00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,600
Speaker 3: And you also have a podcast called Okay What's Next?

504
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 3: So tell the listeners a little bit about what they

505
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:37,240
Speaker 3: can find on your podcast.

506
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:39,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, so in Okay with Sex, I just love to

507
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,119
Speaker 4: talk to people about kind of what their next step is,

508
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:45,439
Speaker 4: whether that's relationally, personally, but you know, if you know

509
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:47,399
Speaker 4: me very well, you'll know that I say okay with

510
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 4: sex a lot to probably an annoying degree, because I'm

511
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:52,200
Speaker 4: always kind of saying like, oh, here we are, like

512
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:54,359
Speaker 4: where are we going? And so it's just really a

513
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,600
Speaker 4: podcast exploring that with different people who are doing different things.

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00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,640
Speaker 3: I love that anyway they can find anywhere they listen

515
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:02,560
Speaker 3: to Podcastsume.

516
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's on Apple and Spotify. Yep.

517
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 2: Awesome.

518
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:06,679
Speaker 3: Okay, what's next is the podcast? You can follow Jason

519
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:08,960
Speaker 3: on Instagram. I'll put all of this in the description.

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00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:11,120
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for being here. I love talking

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00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,919
Speaker 3: about healthy relationships. I'm hoping to find some.

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00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:17,679
Speaker 4: Well, this was super good. You had wonderful questions. I

523
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:19,639
Speaker 4: love the question, so thanks so much for having me.

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00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:20,560
Speaker 4: Kelly appreciate it.

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00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 2: Awesome. Thank you guys for listening.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to The Velvet's Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson,

527
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 1: where we believe everyone has a little velvet in a

528
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:33,040
Speaker 1: little edge. Subscribe for more conversations on life, style, beauty,

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00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 1: and relationships. Search Velvet's Edge wherever you get your podcasts.