1 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: Hey guys, it's Laura and I writer. In Season one 2 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:10,559 Speaker 1: of False Confessions, we brought you the story of Daniel Viegas, 3 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: a teenager from El Paso, Texas, who was coerced into 4 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: giving a false confession to a double murder in nineteen 5 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: ninety three. One of the people who ultimately helped free 6 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: Daniel started out as a complete stranger to him. It's 7 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: a story of real heroism that proves anyone can have 8 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 1: an impact when they put in the effort. Now, we're 9 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: pleased to tell you that since his acquittal in twenty eighteen, 10 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:36,560 Speaker 1: Daniel is living in that spirit. He's paying it forward, 11 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: so to speak. Today he works with Proclaim Justice, an 12 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 1: organization founded by Jason Baldwin, a member of the West 13 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 1: Memphis III. Proclaimed Justice helps to free other innocent people 14 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:51,879 Speaker 1: across the country. Daniel also bravely shares his story on 15 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 1: stage and on social media. He helps to raise awareness 16 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 1: of this all too common miscarriage of justice. We need 17 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 1: advocates like Daniel Vehegas and organizations like Proclaimed Justice to 18 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 1: speak out against wrongful convictions, to tell the world that 19 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 1: this really can happen to anyone. It's through their work 20 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:13,839 Speaker 1: that we can create a future where no innocent person 21 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:18,119 Speaker 1: ever spends another day in prison. Daniel, We thank you 22 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 1: for your invaluable work. We're replaying this episode in your honor. 23 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:31,839 Speaker 1: Welcome to Wrongful Conviction, False Confessions. I'm Laura and I writer, 24 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: and I'm Steve Drusy. Today we're going to tell you 25 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: about a case that shows just how much ordinary people 26 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:41,759 Speaker 1: can help the wrongly convicted find real justice, even when 27 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:46,119 Speaker 1: they start out as strangers. In today's case, an unexpected 28 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 1: hero fought for years to turn tragedy into triumph, ending 29 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 1: into one of the most dramatic courtroom exonerations I've ever seen. 30 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: Like so many of our cases at the Center on 31 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 1: Wrongful Convictions, Steve first learned about Daniel Viegas through one 32 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: of his infamous online searches. By this time, I actually 33 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:19,079 Speaker 1: had my own newsfeed, and so did our colleague Josh Tepfer. 34 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: But Steve had his own reasons for being particularly excited 35 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: about this case. 36 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 2: So after all three of us read about a possible 37 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 2: false confession case in Alpasso, it seemed like destiny for 38 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:34,920 Speaker 2: us to get involved in this case. You see, in 39 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 2: two thousand and six, Alpasso was host to one of 40 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 2: the most important conferences in the history of false confessions 41 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 2: that brought together many of the leading experts on the 42 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:47,920 Speaker 2: subject to the University of Texas. 43 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: For people like us, this is basically the Olympics meets Coachella. 44 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 2: Who was there? Well, Donald Connery, the author of Peter 45 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 2: Riley's book, was there. 46 00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 1: Steve's talking about a book called Guilty Until Proven Innocent. 47 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 1: We'll tell you that story in a later episode about 48 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 1: a false confession from nineteen seventy three. 49 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 2: And Geezley good Johnson, the famed Icelandic detective turned psychology 50 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 2: professor at King's College of London. 51 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 1: You might remember Geasley from our last episode. His scientific 52 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: expertise helped exonerate Tana Pora in New Zealand. 53 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 2: Richard Offshe and Richard Leo and Saul Cassen, some of 54 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 2: the leading experts in the United States on false confessions, 55 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 2: were there. 56 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 1: We're going to hear from Saul Cassen in another episode two. 57 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: All of these guys are og experts in the world 58 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: of false confessions. They're Steve's heroes and mine too. So 59 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: if I've turned into a geek here, you know who 60 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: to blame. 61 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 2: This conference was a watershed moment in the history of 62 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 2: false confessions and the idea of going back to El 63 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 2: Paso to work on an actual false confession case, it 64 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 2: just seemed like destiny to me. 65 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: This story starts in El Paso, a border city in 66 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: West Texas. Now. In the early nineteen nine El Casso 67 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 1: was a different place than it is today. The crime 68 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 1: rate was sky high. There was lots of gang activity. 69 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: Street violence was a daily problem, and in some neighborhoods, 70 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: shootings were regular occurrences. We start our story in the 71 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 1: early morning hours of April tenth, nineteen ninety three. Good Friday. 72 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: It's just after midnight, and four teenagers are walking home 73 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: from a party and they find themselves in a rough neighborhood. 74 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:29,599 Speaker 1: Three of them, Manda Lazo, Juan Carlo's Medina, and Jesse Hernandez, 75 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: were seventeen years old. The fourth, Bobby England, was eighteen. 76 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 1: All of them were good kids, none of them were 77 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: caught up in gangs or the street life. But they 78 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:41,840 Speaker 1: ran into trouble anyway. At the intersection of Electric Street 79 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: and trans Mountain Road. That's where a maroon car with 80 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 1: tinted windows rolls up behind them and starts following them. Slowly. Now, 81 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:53,360 Speaker 1: just as the four of them start to get scared, 82 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 1: the car takes off. It speeds away, but a few 83 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 1: minutes later it comes back, and this time the driver 84 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 1: turns off the headline light. Words are shouted from the 85 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 1: car in Spanish, possibly an insult keeputos, and then a 86 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 1: series of shots ring out, one right after another. Wan 87 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: and Jesse take off running as a matter of sheer instinct, 88 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:16,559 Speaker 1: and they think that their two friends are running away 89 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: alongside them. But when jan and Jesse feel that they've 90 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: run far enough that it's safe to slow down, they 91 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:25,239 Speaker 1: look around them and they don't see Mondo or Bobby 92 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 1: with them at all. They take a deep breath, go 93 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: back to the scene of the shooting, and they see 94 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:34,479 Speaker 1: police lights flashing. Bobby had been shot in the head 95 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 1: and died in the street. Mondo had been shot in 96 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:41,039 Speaker 1: the stomach and the thigh. He made it one hundred 97 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 1: yards to a house up the street, where he collapsed 98 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 1: in the front yard and died as the residents frantically 99 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 1: dialed nine one one. Now, the police found six shells 100 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 1: from a twenty two caliber handgun littered on the street 101 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: right where the car had pulled over, but That's about it. 102 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:58,039 Speaker 1: In terms of evidence. There were no fingerprints, no DNA, 103 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: nothing forensic to help them solve this crime. It was 104 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 1: going to have to come down to confessions. 105 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:07,279 Speaker 2: The Alpasso Police assigned one of the toughest cops on 106 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:10,559 Speaker 2: the force to the Good Friday shooting, an officer whose 107 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:13,479 Speaker 2: name we can't share, but an officer who is known 108 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 2: as a closer. 109 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:16,719 Speaker 1: This guy is so tough he's even been featured on 110 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: the TV show Cops. 111 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 2: Now, what's a closer? A closer is someone who is 112 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 2: very skilled at police interrogation. A good closer will gather 113 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 2: evidence and then slowly reveal that evidence to a suspect, 114 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 2: like peeling off layers of an onion, so that the 115 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 2: suspect feels like he is nabbed, his goose is cooked, 116 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 2: and that leads the suspect to confess. But there are 117 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 2: other kinds of closers. Closers who use brutality and threats, 118 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 2: and they don't only use these tactics with suspects. Their 119 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:55,280 Speaker 2: modus operandi is to use these tactics with suspects, with 120 00:06:55,440 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 2: witnesses and sometimes with victims, and they get statements, but 121 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 2: those statements are coerced and false statements. This detective, he 122 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 2: was in that second camp exactly. 123 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: So the closer is brought in right this detective from 124 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 1: the al Paso Police Force. He begins investigating the case 125 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: and pretty soon he comes across a seventeen year old 126 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: boy named David Rongel. David is brought into the police 127 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 1: station in theory about a completely different case. The police 128 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 1: had told his mom that they needed to talk to 129 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 1: Davide about some telephone harassment complaints, but when questioning actually began, 130 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: it had nothing to do with telephone harassment. Police began 131 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: accusing Davide of committing the Good Friday shootings. Now later on, 132 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: Davide said that the police falsely told him during this 133 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: interrogation that his friends had implicated him, and Davide himself 134 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: was threatened. He says he was told that he was 135 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: a pretty white boy with green eyes who would be 136 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 1: raped in prison if he didn't confess. This scares David 137 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: and eventually he starts offering some information. He tells police 138 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 1: that his sixteen year old cousin, Daniel Viegos, had been 139 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: bragging about committing the Good Friday shootings, although he added 140 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 1: that everyone was sure Daniel had been joking. You see, 141 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: Daniel had a reputation as a jokester. He was the 142 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 1: type of kid who always boasted about things he hadn't 143 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 1: actually done. Daniel had bragged about owning a waterbed when 144 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: he didn't. He'd bragged about owning a fancy stereo when 145 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: he didn't. He'd even bragged about being descended from Italian 146 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:30,239 Speaker 1: Royalty when he definitely wasn't. 147 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 2: I want to be descended from Italian Royalty. 148 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:34,679 Speaker 1: Me too, but that kind of lucks just ain't for us. 149 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: Steve Anyway, when it came to the Good Friday shootings, 150 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 1: Davide never believed Daniel to be serious, not even for 151 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: a minute. It just wasn't him. Daniel had nothing serious 152 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 1: like this in his background. 153 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 2: Just like criminals have a modus operandi, many times closures 154 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 2: or interrogators have a modus operandi, And in David's case 155 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:57,679 Speaker 2: we saw evidence that we later were able to demonstrate 156 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:01,559 Speaker 2: was a modus operandi. Almost all this interrogator would tell 157 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 2: the suspect that his best friend or close associate had 158 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 2: implicated him. 159 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:07,559 Speaker 1: In the crime, even if that's untrue, right. 160 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 2: Always untrue, right. He would threaten the suspect with the 161 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 2: death penalty, and he also told the suspects or the 162 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 2: witnesses or the victims in this case, that they were 163 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:20,599 Speaker 2: going to go to prison and they were going to 164 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 2: be raped. I mean, if you're a seventeen year old kid, 165 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 2: and most of these witnesses were teenagers, and you're told 166 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 2: that you're looking at going to an adult jail where 167 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:32,599 Speaker 2: you're going to be a rape victim, you're going to 168 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 2: say just about anything you need to get out of 169 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 2: that interrogation. 170 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 1: It's terrifying stuff. And for David, the information he gave 171 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,680 Speaker 1: was that his cousin Daniel, had been joking about committing 172 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 1: the Good Friday shooting. He never believed Daniel to be serious, 173 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:49,439 Speaker 1: but this information was enough for the police. They asked 174 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 1: Devid to write out a statement describing what Daniel had said. 175 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:56,119 Speaker 1: David wrote that Daniel had bragged about using a shotgun 176 00:09:56,559 --> 00:10:00,080 Speaker 1: to commit the shootings, but the detective had David take 177 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 1: that part out and write the statement a second time 178 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 1: without mentioning the type of weapon, because remember, the shells 179 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 1: at the scene had come from a twenty two, not 180 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: a shotgun. Even with the detective's edits, da Vide's statements 181 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: still contained errors. He remembered his cousin bragging about being 182 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:19,199 Speaker 1: in a black car, not a maroon car, and Davide 183 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 1: said that Daniel described firing a few shots, then getting 184 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 1: out of the car, chasing Mondo Lazo to the house 185 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 1: and shooting him again. There, that's just not how this 186 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: crime happened. The shots were all clustered together, not spaced out, 187 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 1: and there were no casings found near Mondo's body. But 188 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: none of us mattered. Now, this was a statement that 189 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 1: David regretted giving. It haunted him for the rest of 190 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: his life that he'd implicated his own cousin in the 191 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 1: Good Friday shootings, when even he didn't believe that Daniel 192 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 1: was guilty. But it was a statement that he felt 193 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: he had no choice but to give in light of 194 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 1: the threats that he was encountering in the interrogation room. 195 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 2: So there errors, errors in Da VID's statement, errors in 196 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:06,239 Speaker 2: the statements of other witnesses, errors that the true perpetrator 197 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 2: would never have made. That's a red flag. 198 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 1: It's a huge red flag. But it doesn't stop these police. 199 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 1: Within hours, three more people are brought in for questioning. 200 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:18,679 Speaker 1: Late at night on April twenty first, two friends of 201 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 1: Daniel's Marcos Gonzalez and Rodney Williams and Daniel himself. They're 202 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: all questioned, and when Daniel is interrogated, he denies involvement. 203 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 1: He tells the police he was babysitting that night with 204 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 1: a group of friends and they were all watching White 205 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 1: Men Can't Jump on TV. 206 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 2: But here comes that modus operandi exactly. 207 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 1: Daniel reports being told that if he didn't confess, he 208 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 1: would be taken to the desert to get beaten, and 209 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: then to jail where he would be raped by old 210 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 1: men then sentenced to death by the electric chair. This 211 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,080 Speaker 1: is how they scared Daniel. This is how they began 212 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 1: reducing him down to this feeling of hopelessness. But if 213 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:57,439 Speaker 1: he confessed, on the other hand, he was told that 214 00:11:57,480 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: he would get leniency because he was just a minor. 215 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: And after about five hours of interrogation, Daniel ends up 216 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 1: signing a confession typed out by detectives. It's about three 217 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning. 218 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 2: He repeats the same errors that David Rangell had made, 219 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 2: but he makes other mistakes too. First of all, what 220 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 2: about the people in the car? Daniel says the driver 221 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,720 Speaker 2: was someone nicknamed Popeye, and that the front passenger was 222 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 2: someone nicknamed Droopy, but the only known Popeye was incarcerated 223 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 2: at the time, and the only known Droopy he was 224 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 2: also on house arrest at the time. They could not 225 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 2: possibly have been in the car the color of the car. 226 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 2: Davide had said the car was black. Survivor Jesse Hernandez 227 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 2: he had said the car was maroon. Daniel said they 228 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 2: were in a white four door sedan at the time 229 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 2: of the shooting. And finally, Daniel said that he had 230 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 2: shot Bobby and Mondo in the back, but it was 231 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 2: clear from the medical examiner's report that they had been 232 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 2: shot from the front. 233 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 1: The more and more you study Daniel's confession, the more 234 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 1: you start to a pattern. The only facts about this 235 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: murder that he was able to get right are facts 236 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 1: that had been publicized about the Good Friday shootings in 237 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: the local paper, the El Paso Times. Now, this is 238 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: a pretty big red flag when you can only get 239 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: facts right when you've read about them in the newspaper. 240 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: And there's another red flag in this case too. As 241 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: soon as the interrogator left the room, Daniel immediately recants 242 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:27,439 Speaker 1: to a juvenile probation officer. I didn't do it, he said, 243 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 1: and he explained that he only confessed because the cops 244 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,960 Speaker 1: kept harassing him. He said, I was tired, so I 245 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 1: told them what they wanted to hear. 246 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 2: And the police and prosecutors rang with that confession, even 247 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 2: though it was filled with many false facts. 248 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 1: And errors, Despite the red flags in his confession, despite 249 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 1: the recantation, despite the lack of any physical evidence connecting 250 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 1: him to the crime, Daniel Viegas is arrested and charged 251 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 1: with capital murder. He's sixteen years old. 252 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 2: Now. 253 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: Daniel didn't come from a family with a lot of money, 254 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 1: but his parents managed somehow to scrape together ten thousand 255 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 1: dollars for an attorney. Daniel Viegas's first trial took place 256 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 1: in December nineteen ninety four. At that trial, David Wrangle testified, 257 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 1: but he maintained that Daniel had been obviously kidding when 258 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: he'd bragged about the shooting. Rodney and Marcos, Daniel's friends, well, 259 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 1: they'd given police statements implicating Daniel when they'd been questioned, 260 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 1: but on the witness stand they said their statements were 261 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 1: false and had been obtained through threats of prison, rape 262 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: and other similar threats, and Daniel's attorney called eighteen defense witnesses, 263 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 1: including several alibi witnesses who testified that Daniel was with 264 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: them babysitting and watching TV at the time of the shooting. Right, 265 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: white men can't jump, And Daniel's attorney argued strenuously about 266 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 1: all these inconsistencies in Daniel's confession, how it just didn't 267 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 1: match the facts of this crime, how it showed every 268 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 1: indication of being false. 269 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 2: He even called other witnesses who called into question the 270 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 2: credibility of this detective, former prosecutors who had sought indictments 271 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 2: for perjury. 272 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 1: The defense mounted a huge fight. They made every argument 273 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 1: they could. The trial lasted a week and at the 274 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: end there was a hung jury eleven to one, but. 275 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 2: It was eleven to one in favor of a conviction, 276 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 2: which gave the district attorney some thought that this would 277 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 2: be an easier case to convict the next time around. 278 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: Sure enough, about nine months later, again, Daniel veegis Is 279 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: tried for the murders of Mondo and Bobby. But the 280 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 1: second trial was different. You see, Daniel's parents had spent 281 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 1: every penny they had on the first trial, and they 282 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: couldn't afford a lawyer for the second trial. This time around, 283 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 1: Daniel was represented by a court appointed lawyer, someone who 284 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: had been assigned the case only two months before the 285 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 1: trial began, and so when the second trial rolled around, 286 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: that lawyer called only one defense witness, no alibi witnesses 287 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: at all. He hardly pointed to any problems with Daniel's confession, 288 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 1: even though he had a blueprint for success in the 289 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 1: form of the first trial, and. 290 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 2: He didn't make a full frontal attack on the integrity 291 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 2: and credibility of the police officer who got these unreliable statements. 292 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 1: And so on August twenty fourth, nineteen ninety five, Daniel 293 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 1: Viegas was convicted of capital murder. Because he'd been a 294 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 1: juvenile at the time of the offense, he wasn't sentenced 295 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: to death. Instead, he was given two life terms in prison, 296 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 1: one for Bobby and one for Mondo. Daniel was a 297 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: teenager when he went to prison, and he might still 298 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 1: be there today if it weren't for a man named 299 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 1: John Mimbella. 300 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 2: What a man now. 301 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 1: John is the head of a successful El Paso construction firm, 302 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: a firm that hired a lot of formerly incarcerated people. 303 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:00,120 Speaker 1: Because John is a guy who believes in second chances. 304 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 1: One day in two thousand and five, John Mabella walks 305 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:06,879 Speaker 1: into an El Paso bank and he ends up asking 306 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 1: his teller, a woman named Lucy, out on a date. 307 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 3: Six months later, we're buried. Lucy had three daughters with 308 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 3: Daniel's brother, so Daniel was actually Lucy's ex brother in law. 309 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 3: I adopted Lucy's daughters two years later, and that's when 310 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:26,120 Speaker 3: I learned more about Daniel's case. 311 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:28,720 Speaker 1: Now, Lucy often brought the girls to see their grandparents, 312 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 1: who were Daniel's parents, and eventually John started coming along too. 313 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 1: That's where he started to hear stories about their son, Daniel, 314 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 1: who was serving life in prison for two murders he 315 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 1: didn't commit. 316 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 3: At first. I thought, you know, any parents gonna not 317 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:47,919 Speaker 3: want to accept that their son might be a killer. 318 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 3: I had a lot of faith also in our system. 319 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:54,920 Speaker 3: You know, I always believe that if a jury found 320 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:58,680 Speaker 3: you guilty, it must have been because they had plenty 321 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 3: of evidence against you. So I figured, hey, you know, 322 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 3: they must have all kinds of evidence on this kid 323 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 3: if they sentenced him to life. 324 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:10,360 Speaker 2: John was skeptical, but he saw how heartbroken the grandparents were, 325 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 2: and he agreed to read through the court papers. Before 326 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 2: long he was dumb struck. There was no reliable evidence 327 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 2: tying Daniel to these shootings at all. And then John 328 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 2: Manbela became a man possessed. 329 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 3: I've got a couple of friends and I asked him 330 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 3: if they could set up a meeting with our DA 331 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 3: because I saw some serious problems in Daniel's conviction. Our 332 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 3: DA happened to be high Miss Parsa and he personally 333 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 3: tried Daniel. So I figured, you know what, if there's 334 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:44,959 Speaker 3: some mistake, if there's some doubt, you know, he's going 335 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:48,120 Speaker 3: to reopen this case. So we had the meeting and 336 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 3: I told him, I go, you know what, I think 337 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:53,359 Speaker 3: Daniel's innocent. Something's wrong here, you know, we need to 338 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 3: look into it. This DA fought us a lot just 339 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:00,880 Speaker 3: to get evidentry heering. After he told me the hire 340 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 3: Good of Bills lawyer and opened up the case again, 341 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 3: he fought as to the new. 342 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:08,200 Speaker 1: Now this really fired John up. It didn't make any sense. 343 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 1: He starts paying for billboards around El Paso that say 344 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:15,919 Speaker 1: free Daniel Viegas. He starts organizing rallies and protests outside 345 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 1: the courthouse, and he hired a private investigator. 346 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 3: He read the transcripts and he was dumbfounded too. He goes, John, 347 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,920 Speaker 3: I was a homicide detective for twenty years. This case 348 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 3: would never have gone to trial. I would never have 349 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 3: presented this to my DA if this is all I had. Well, 350 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:34,640 Speaker 3: he was very upset, and he goes, yes, John, I'll 351 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 3: take your case. 352 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: John nan Bella's invested in Daniel's innocence and the work 353 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:40,880 Speaker 1: he would go on to do ended up costing him 354 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:43,400 Speaker 1: personally hundreds of thousands of dollars. 355 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:47,159 Speaker 2: He's the patron saint of the Daniel Viegis case. You know. 356 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:51,479 Speaker 2: I went down to l Passo shortly after John had 357 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 2: hired lawyers and investigators to reopen Daniel's case, and when 358 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:58,639 Speaker 2: I went into the courthouse, there were like fifteen or 359 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 2: twenty people walking around with signs saying free Daniel Viegas. 360 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 2: You know, false confessions happened. Justice for Daniel Viegas. John 361 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 2: had organized a rally right in front of the courthouse, 362 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 2: and on the street in front of the courthouse was 363 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,359 Speaker 2: a truck that had billboards on both sides of it 364 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 2: that was driving around the courthouse. So when you walked 365 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 2: into the courtroom in Alpaso. You were just blitched by 366 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 2: this notion that an injustice had occurred and that it 367 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 2: needed to be fixed. 368 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,200 Speaker 1: Exactly, and John brought his entire community into this case too. 369 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,159 Speaker 1: There was a manager who worked at his construction company 370 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 1: who was a songwriter, and he ends up writing a corrido, 371 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 1: a traditional Mexican ballad, about the wrongful conviction of Daniel Viegas. 372 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 2: John was so proud of that song that one of 373 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 2: the first things he did when I was down in 374 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:58,160 Speaker 2: El Paso was to play that for me. It's on 375 00:20:58,200 --> 00:20:59,679 Speaker 2: YouTube now if you want to hear it. 376 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 1: John and the private investigator, right, they want to really 377 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:07,879 Speaker 1: find out what happened, and one of the first people 378 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,639 Speaker 1: they go to speak to is Jesse Hernandez, one of 379 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 1: the survivors of the shooting. Of course, Jesse was now 380 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 1: a grown man, and John shows Jesse for the first 381 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 1: time a copy of Daniel's confession. 382 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:26,880 Speaker 3: Jesse's like, John, this is not what happened. This does 383 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:30,680 Speaker 3: not look like a confession from somebody who was there 384 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 3: who took this confession down. And I told him. At 385 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 3: that point, Jesse turns pale and he's like John, that 386 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 3: same detective almost had me confessing to that crime. He 387 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,159 Speaker 3: shows up that night and he tells me, we know 388 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 3: you shot your friends. Your buddy Juan Medina, I just 389 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:54,679 Speaker 3: told us that you did it. And Jesse says that 390 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 3: he was just hysterical. He's like, wait a minute, these 391 00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 3: are my friends. I love my friends. I would never 392 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 3: do it like that to my friends. He goes, well, 393 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 3: maybe you blacked out, you know, and you shot them. 394 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:05,120 Speaker 2: You didn't even realize it. 395 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,159 Speaker 3: And at that moment, Jesse goes, well, man, you know, 396 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 3: why would my friend say I shot them if I 397 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 3: didn't shook them. Maybe I did do it, And he 398 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 3: put his head down on the table and just crying uncontrollably. 399 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:19,880 Speaker 3: Had it not been for his mom that stepped in, 400 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 3: he says, he was almost ready to confess. So Jesse's like, 401 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 3: the last thing I want is somebody innocence spending the 402 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,440 Speaker 3: rest of their life in prison. That could have been me. 403 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: This was an absolute bolt from the blue when John 404 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:47,200 Speaker 1: heard this story from Jesse Hernandez, and it only motivated 405 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 1: him to continue pounding the pavement. Eventually, John hires a 406 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:55,160 Speaker 1: highly skilled El Paso trial lawyer, a man named Joe Spencer. 407 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:57,879 Speaker 1: Now Joe files a state petition for a writ of 408 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:01,880 Speaker 1: habeas corpus, arguing, among other things, that Daniel's lawyer at 409 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:05,359 Speaker 1: his second trial had been ineffective for failing to call 410 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 1: Daniel's alibi witnesses. There's a hearing plan it's going to 411 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,159 Speaker 1: happen in twenty eleven, and in the run up to 412 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,120 Speaker 1: that hearing, that's when Steve and I first heard about 413 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: this case. 414 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, we heard about it through our news feeds. And 415 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,439 Speaker 2: this time what made this special is it wasn't just 416 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 2: me who came in to the office the next day. 417 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 2: It was me and Laura, and so did our third attorney, 418 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 2: Josh Tepfra That all three of us got this news 419 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 2: feed at the same time, a case of a juvenile 420 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 2: who had confessed to a crime he didn't commit and 421 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:40,399 Speaker 2: who was trying to reopen his case through a new hearing. 422 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 1: At the hearing, Jesse Hernandez takes the stand for the 423 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 1: first time. Jesse testifies that Daniel's confession didn't match what 424 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:51,640 Speaker 1: actually happened to him and his friends. Daniel's alibi witnesses 425 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,919 Speaker 1: also testified, saying that they were with Daniel on the 426 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 1: night of the crime, and remember doctor Richard Leo One 427 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: of the experts from that falsecon profession conference in El 428 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,879 Speaker 1: Paso back in two thousand and six. He took the 429 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:07,919 Speaker 1: stand to and testified that Daniel's statement showed every sign 430 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:11,360 Speaker 1: of being false. There was even evidence introduced that two 431 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 1: other known gang members had threatened Mando Lazo's life right 432 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 1: before the shooting, and they'd bragged about killing him afterwards. 433 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,879 Speaker 1: When one of those two gang members was called to testify, 434 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 1: he invoked his Fifth Amendment right against self incrimination and 435 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:26,920 Speaker 1: refused to answer anything. 436 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 2: And Joe Spencer also mounted again a direct attack on 437 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 2: the integrity of the detective who had taken the false 438 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:39,120 Speaker 2: witness statements, who had almost gotten a false confession from 439 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 2: the crime victim, and who had gotten the confession from Daniel. 440 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:46,159 Speaker 2: And one of the things he discovered, which is pretty incredible, 441 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,880 Speaker 2: was that one of the tactics that this detective had 442 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,119 Speaker 2: used in another case was that he would enter an 443 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:58,919 Speaker 2: interrogation room dressed in a smock. Now, why would anybody 444 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 2: wear a smock? Well, he tried to mislead the suspect 445 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 2: into thinking that they were speaking to a medical person, 446 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 2: a doctor, unbelievable, instead of a police officer. And when 447 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:16,680 Speaker 2: the judge heard that evidence, his eyes rolled back into his. 448 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,919 Speaker 1: Head, and eventually we had an opportunity to file an 449 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 1: amicus brief about the unreliability of Daniel's confession and add 450 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:25,440 Speaker 1: that to everything that Joe Spencer was already doing in 451 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,119 Speaker 1: the courtroom, and we emphasized how vulnerable a teenager like 452 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,159 Speaker 1: Daniel would have been to making a false confession. The 453 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:36,359 Speaker 1: hearing concluded, and then we waited. The judge took nine 454 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 1: months to reach a decision, but on August seventeenth, twenty twelve, 455 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:46,479 Speaker 1: Judge Sam Madrano recommended that Daniel Viegues receive a new trial. 456 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 1: Judge Modrano concluded that Daniel's trial lawyer had provided ineffective 457 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 1: assistance by failing to investigate or introduce evidence of the 458 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 1: unreliability of Daniel's confession. Now, Judge Modrano's decision was a 459 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 1: fabulous victory, but it was only a recommendation. It had 460 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 1: to be adopted by the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals. 461 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,680 Speaker 1: It was at that point that we joined the team 462 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 1: to craft a presentation to that court that we hoped 463 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:16,919 Speaker 1: it would accept. As that appeal process is ongoing, Daniel's lawyer, 464 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:21,119 Speaker 1: Joe Spencer, asked Judge Madrano to free Daniel on bond 465 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 1: let him go home. As the appeal process dragged on, 466 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 1: and on January fourteenth, twenty fourteen, after nearly two decades 467 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:34,399 Speaker 1: in prison, Daniel was released on bond, straight into the 468 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 1: arms of John Mambella, who drove him home in a 469 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,199 Speaker 1: brand new, shiny red convertible. 470 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:45,120 Speaker 2: It was almost like a chick or tape parade. Daniel 471 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:46,440 Speaker 2: was free. 472 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: He got started living right away. As soon as he 473 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 1: was released. He got married to a woman named Amanda, 474 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 1: whom he'd met when he was behind bars, and in 475 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:57,919 Speaker 1: short order they had two beautiful children. But even though 476 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,400 Speaker 1: Daniel was walking out of the prison into the arms 477 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,639 Speaker 1: of a crowd of supporters, that could have all been 478 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 1: taken away from him. 479 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 2: And the Court of Criminal Appeals in Texas is a 480 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 2: court that has a reputation of being hostile to defendant's claims, 481 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 2: especially claims regarding their actual innocence, So it was anything 482 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:21,639 Speaker 2: but a sure thing that Judge Medrano's decision would be affirmed. 483 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 1: Long story short, the High Court affirms Judge Madrano's ruling. Yes, 484 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:30,360 Speaker 1: Daniel Viegs deserves another trial and a chance to prove 485 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 1: his innocence. But the DA didn't get around to the 486 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: new trial until twenty eighteen. So for four years Daniel's 487 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,720 Speaker 1: living with a sword hanging over his head. If he 488 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,719 Speaker 1: goes to trial and loses, he'll be back in prison 489 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 1: for life. This is enormously stressful. The months and years 490 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 1: are ticking by. Daniel's starting a family. He's working at 491 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:57,399 Speaker 1: John Manbella's construction company, tasting freedom and cherishing it. What 492 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 1: does the DA do? He asks Daniel to enter an 493 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 1: Alfred plea stay free as long as you plead guilty. 494 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 2: It's such a tempting offer, especially to somebody who was 495 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 2: locked up for a crime they didn't commit as a 496 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 2: teenager and had to spend two decades or more in 497 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:21,199 Speaker 2: prison suffering under the weight of that wrongful conviction. But 498 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,119 Speaker 2: now Daniel's got other people. He has to think about, 499 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:25,960 Speaker 2: his wife and their children. 500 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 1: Daniel considered the Alfred Plea option seriously because it meant 501 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,199 Speaker 1: that he wouldn't have to go back to trial. You 502 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,400 Speaker 1: would be a convicted murderer, but at least he would 503 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:36,120 Speaker 1: have his freedom. Of course, he was tempted to put 504 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 1: the whole thing behind him, But Daniel lived in El Paso, Texas, 505 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 1: and El Paso had become home to a small community 506 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 1: of wrongly convicted individuals. Among that community was a man 507 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 1: named Jason Baldwin. Now that's a name that true crime 508 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 1: junkies might recognize because Jason Baldwin was a member of 509 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 1: the West Memphis III, a group of three teenagers from 510 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 1: Arkansas who had been a hues of the nineteen ninety 511 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 1: three killings of three eight year old boys. One of them, 512 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,720 Speaker 1: Jesse miss Kelly, had falsely confessed and the three of 513 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 1: them were convicted, two sentenced to life in prison, and 514 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: the third, Damien Eccles, sent a death row in Arkansas. 515 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 1: They fought their case for seventeen years. Steve and I 516 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 1: were fortunate enough to join Damien Eckles' legal team at 517 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 1: the very end, and they were freed only when the 518 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 1: State of Arkansas made them an offer. All three of 519 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:31,960 Speaker 1: you enter, Alfred, please say you're guilty of these crimes, 520 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 1: and then we'll let you out. Now this is an 521 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 1: easier decision when it came to Damien, he was on 522 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 1: death row, but Jason, who had been sentenced to life 523 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: in prison, wrestled with it. He didn't want to admit 524 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 1: to a crime. He didn't commit even to secure his 525 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 1: own freedom. Ultimately, he chose to accept the Alfred plea 526 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:51,080 Speaker 1: to help save Damien's life. 527 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 2: One of the consequences of entering an Alford plea is 528 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 2: that you can't get compensated through state compensation statutes. The 529 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 2: Alfred plea is considered a plea of guilty, and that 530 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 2: disqualifies you from recovering any compensation. 531 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 1: Prosecutors dangle freedom so long as they can secure guilty 532 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,480 Speaker 1: please in return and prevent themselves from being sued down 533 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 1: the road. It's a tool of injustice that happens way 534 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 1: too often. It was used in the Robert Davis case, 535 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 1: it was used in the West Memphis three case, and 536 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 1: it almost worked on Daniel Viegas. You see, Jason Baldwin 537 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 1: had moved from Arkansas to Texas, where he became involved 538 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: in a wrongful conviction advocacy organization called Proclaim Justice and 539 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 1: joined John Manbela's fight to free Daniel Viegas. Jason Baldwin 540 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 1: became one of his closest friends and confidants. As Daniel 541 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:43,720 Speaker 1: wade whether to accept that Alfred play. 542 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 3: Daniel told me, Johnny goes, if I take this deal, 543 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 3: all this work that you did is for nothing. So 544 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 3: we called Jason Bodwin for his advice, and he said, 545 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 3: let's talk about it before you decide anything. And he 546 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,959 Speaker 3: tells Daniel, Noah, I can't tell you what to do. 547 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 3: You have a family. But in my case, you know 548 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 3: there's no way that I would do it again. It 549 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 3: bothers me every day of my life. So just think 550 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 3: hard about this because it could bother you the rest 551 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 3: of your life too. 552 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 1: And with Jason Baldwyn's counseling and support, Daniel Viegas found 553 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 1: his courage and turned down that unjust Alfred plea offer. 554 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:29,360 Speaker 1: He decided to go to trial. 555 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:35,440 Speaker 2: The stakes were so high at this trial. Daniel had 556 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 2: tasted freedom, he was starting to live the kind of 557 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,800 Speaker 2: life he had always dreamed of. But here he was 558 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,960 Speaker 2: back in that court, a place where the last time 559 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 2: had ended in a conviction. 560 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 1: Now this trial was very different because this time Daniel's 561 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 1: team of lawyers we succeeded in getting his confession thrown 562 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 1: out as involunteer and coerced and without that confession there 563 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 1: is precious little evidence to go on. The state presented 564 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 1: a case to the jury. The jury deliberated and in 565 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 1: October of twenty eighteen, a verdict came out. 566 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 2: The State of Texas versus Daniel Viegus. 567 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 1: Now, this is one of the highest profile cases in 568 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 1: the history of El Paso at this point, and the 569 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:26,440 Speaker 1: courtroom is packed with supporters of Daniel Viegas. Jason Baldwin 570 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 1: of the West Memphis three is there, the local wrongful 571 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 1: conviction advocacy organization Proclaimed Justice is there, and John and 572 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 1: Lucy Membella sitting in the front row right behind Daniel 573 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 1: and his lawyers. They are there. 574 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 2: And when the judge asks Daniel to stand up for 575 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 2: the verdict, his knees buckle. He almost collapses. He has 576 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 2: to hear whether this beautiful life that he has started 577 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:55,040 Speaker 2: reconstructing is going to continue, where is it going to end? 578 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 1: Daniel's lawyers actually have to help him stand up, and 579 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,000 Speaker 1: he was able to stand just long enough to hear 580 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 1: the verdict. 581 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:06,760 Speaker 2: We the jury finally defended Daniel viegis not guilty of friend. 582 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 1: Not guilty. 583 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 2: And the courtland rupts in a sound of both cheers 584 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 2: and incredible relief. 585 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 1: And then he collapsed under the weight of a lifetime's 586 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:27,160 Speaker 1: worth of fighting. He had finally been exonerated. It was over. 587 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 3: It was a feeling that I don't think I'm ever 588 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:35,480 Speaker 3: going to feel again in my life. 589 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 4: Hey, Daniel, is that you? Yeah? Tell me about your kids? 590 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 4: How many kids you got? Now? There's four all together. 591 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 4: The man of my wife, to me short was pregnant. 592 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:48,360 Speaker 4: I remember, I told him, man, I'm told to be 593 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 4: a dead and right at that time, my daughter got 594 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 4: pregnant too, and I was like, oh man, you know, 595 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:54,560 Speaker 4: I'm pretty young to be a grandfather. 596 00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 1: What do you tell your kids about what happened to you? 597 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:01,000 Speaker 4: The two little one of the are too small to 598 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 4: know about it. They don't understand yet. Like I love 599 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 4: when they tell me life ain't fair. I tell him, 600 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,279 Speaker 4: tell me about the nineteen years in print, and tell 601 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:12,239 Speaker 4: me how life ran fair. Preenia Room, I know that 602 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,279 Speaker 4: the Wrongful Conviction podcast played an important role in your 603 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:21,719 Speaker 4: case too. Yes, Amanda, she's really into the Wrongful Conviction community, right, 604 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 4: She's like the voted fans to Jason Plant. So when 605 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 4: they came in with that offer flee, you know, they 606 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:28,880 Speaker 4: were just telling me by signing the sea the paper, 607 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,359 Speaker 4: that case is closed. So I was going to sign 608 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 4: it almost and that's when Amanda jumped in and shea's like, no, no, 609 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 4: I know all about this Alpha Please. You know Jason 610 00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,120 Speaker 4: Plant told me about this. She educated me on that, 611 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:40,960 Speaker 4: and then that's when we decided not to take that 612 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:41,439 Speaker 4: pre deal. 613 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:55,120 Speaker 2: Daniel, You're an incredible human being. To see you as 614 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 2: a free man at Innocence Network conferences, at events for 615 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,600 Speaker 2: proclaimed you justice, it makes my heart seek. 616 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:05,719 Speaker 1: You're a symbol of endurance. It's been our honor to 617 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:16,000 Speaker 1: know you and to tell your story today. Wrongful Conviction, 618 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,279 Speaker 1: False Confessions is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts 619 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:23,400 Speaker 1: in association with Signal Company Number One. Special thanks to 620 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,640 Speaker 1: our executive producer Jason Flamm and the team at Signal 621 00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:30,719 Speaker 1: Company Number one. Executive producer Kevin wardis Senior producer and 622 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:35,080 Speaker 1: Pope and additional production and editing by Connor Hall. Special 623 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:38,239 Speaker 1: thanks to Jogi Hammer for additional script editing and for 624 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,560 Speaker 1: wrangling and writing like a mad woman. Our music was 625 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:45,239 Speaker 1: composed by Jay Ralph. You can follow me on Instagram 626 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:47,720 Speaker 1: or Twitter at Laura Nywriter, and. 627 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 2: You can follow me on Twitter at s Drisen. 628 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,719 Speaker 1: For more information on the show, visit Wrongfulconviction podcast dot 629 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 1: com and be sure to follow the show on Instagram 630 00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:02,200 Speaker 1: at Wrongful Conviction on Facebook, Get Wrongful Conviction podcast, and 631 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,240 Speaker 1: on Twitter at wrong Conviction