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Speaker 1: What is up all of my little babies? It is

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Speaker 1: yours truly, Laala Kent. This is the Give Them Lalla Podcast.

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Speaker 1: You just landed from outer space and thought where am I?

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Speaker 1: What am I listening to? Just give them La La? Obviously,

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Speaker 1: what's up, Jess? How you doing? Though?

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Speaker 2: I'm good, Laala? How are you today?

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm a fucking vibe today.

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Speaker 2: I can tell you're glowing. Tell us why give me

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Speaker 2: the secret?

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Speaker 1: Wait? Really?

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Speaker 3: Am? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: You actually are? Okay. So I did an entire just

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Speaker 1: give them Laala skin routine last night. Usually with my

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Speaker 1: skincare routine, even with my cakeup, like you know, I

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Speaker 1: mix my match, just switch it up sometimes. Last night

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Speaker 1: it was strictly and only give them La La skin

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Speaker 1: from the face wash to the moisturizer. I did my

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Speaker 1: mask Ooh okay, obviously stay calm, am, I looking calm.

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Speaker 2: You're looking calm and sounding calm.

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Speaker 1: Well I love that. Yes, okay, so that's why you're glowing.

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Speaker 1: That's why I'm glowing, which leads me to my next

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Speaker 1: very exciting news. I want to give my podcast listeners

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Speaker 1: twenty percent off of give Them Laala. So if you

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Speaker 1: go to give them Laala dot com and use discount

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Speaker 1: code podcast twenty This is exclusive for my podcast listeners. Yo,

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Speaker 1: welcome twenty percent off. Fill up your cart, don't mess up,

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Speaker 1: don't mess up, don't mess up. The next thing, let's

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Speaker 1: talk about the tour. If you haven't, I know this

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Speaker 1: is all things. Give them Lala that, Give them La La.

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Speaker 1: Brand new tour is coming up. If you haven't purchased

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Speaker 1: your tickets, go to give them live dot com. We're

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Speaker 1: kicking off the tour in Irvine. Then we're going to

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Speaker 1: Fort Lauderdale, Clearwater, Orlando, Hotlanta, Nashville, New Orleans, Huon, Austin,

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Speaker 1: and we will wrap it up in Dallas, Texas. So exciting.

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Speaker 1: Should I wear cowboy boots when I'm in Texas? For Houston, Austin, Dallas,

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Speaker 1: I feel like I should.

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Speaker 2: You should, and honestly probably for Nashville as well.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's right, because they're kind of hell be sad.

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Speaker 1: No matter where you're from, you just can't, right, That's

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Speaker 1: like the center of country music. Yeah. Can I tell

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Speaker 1: you what I want to do in Nashville? Yes? Is

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Speaker 1: Carrie Underwood from Nashville. She is, Okay, So at the

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Speaker 1: end of every city, I want to play like a

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Speaker 1: song by an artist that's from that city, but have

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Speaker 1: it be like super badass. So I want to play

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Speaker 1: Carrie Underwood's Ah Doug Cheats at the very end like

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Speaker 1: a little sing along. I feel like that would be fun.

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Speaker 2: I love that at the end. Or do you walk

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Speaker 2: out to it?

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Speaker 1: Ooh, Jessica. These are all things that we're gonna have

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Speaker 1: to keep a secret so that my people show up

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Speaker 1: and are super surprised.

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Speaker 2: Love that.

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Speaker 1: I love that too, So again, get your your beauty

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Speaker 1: goods at give them Lala dot com, use podcast twenty

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Speaker 1: for twenty percent off and go to give them live

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Speaker 1: to get your tour tickets so that I can play

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Speaker 1: with you. Do we have voicemails? We do. Let's do

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Speaker 1: voicemails before we have my epic guest on. We have

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Speaker 1: Tina Swiften on the podcast today. She is super inspirational

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Speaker 1: and she is an expert on narcissism. And I have

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Speaker 1: gotten so many dms about how people are like, please

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Speaker 1: have someone on to talk about narcissism because it is

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Speaker 1: everywhere right now and no one talks about it. So

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about it. Yeah, So after we

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Speaker 1: do the voicemails. We'll take a short break and then

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Speaker 1: we'll have Tina on.

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Speaker 4: Hey Lala, this is Ray. I'm from Texas. I have

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Speaker 4: a best friend who is an alcoholic in recovery. She's

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Speaker 4: almost two years sober, and my brother is currently in

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Speaker 4: rehab and I was just wondering what is some of

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Speaker 4: the best ways that I can support them and their

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Speaker 4: journey into being sober. Thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: I love you, Ray, I love this question. Congratulations to

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Speaker 1: your friend who has two years that's incredible. And your

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Speaker 1: brother who's being proactive and getting help. I'm sending him

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Speaker 1: all of my love and positive vibes and prayers. I

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Speaker 1: would say that supporting them would be first of all,

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Speaker 1: not taking them anywhere that they're triggered to drink. Don't

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Speaker 1: keep alcohol in your house or if you're a drinker,

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Speaker 1: if they come over, put it away. You just don't

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Speaker 1: want them to feel like it's there's the bottle and

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Speaker 1: it it's talking to me and it is like I'm

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Speaker 1: feeding for it. You know, my mouth starts watering. And also,

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Speaker 1: I think it's a tremendous support. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: your friend is in the program or if your brother

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Speaker 1: will be in a program. I'm a firm believer of

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Speaker 1: the program. If they are, I would say, offer to

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Speaker 1: go to an open meeting. And open meeting is where

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Speaker 1: you can take someone with you who may or may

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Speaker 1: not be sober and just be that support of someone

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Speaker 1: who when they are with you, it's not someone who

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Speaker 1: they went and drank or were drinking with. It's really

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Speaker 1: hard to be a support to someone who is an alcoholic.

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Speaker 1: It really is, because you feel like you're walking on eggshells.

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Speaker 1: I've watched it with people around me. They're like, I

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Speaker 1: do you care if I drink right now? And I

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Speaker 1: would say, my big, big, biggest thing, ask them, how

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Speaker 1: can I support you in this moment? I love that communication. Communication.

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Speaker 1: They may say, I just want you to proceed as usual.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to be like this weirdo where it's

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Speaker 1: like you feel like you have to hide your bottles.

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Speaker 1: You know they may not want you to do that,

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Speaker 1: so ask them. I hope that this was helpful. Was

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Speaker 1: this helpful to you, Jess?

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Speaker 5: It was helpful because I actually have alcoholics in my

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Speaker 5: family who are out alcoholics who are you know, in

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Speaker 5: recovery and not my immediate family, my bigger circle family,

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Speaker 5: and that's really helpful. I've never gone to an open meeting,

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Speaker 5: and I've actually never gone to alan On.

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Speaker 2: That's what it's called correct, Yes, is that?

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Speaker 5: How do you feel that's been helpful for people in

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Speaker 5: your life if they've gone or.

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Speaker 1: You know, I have never been to an alan On meeting,

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Speaker 1: and I don't have anyone in my circle that's been

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Speaker 1: to an alan On meeting, but I have friends that

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Speaker 1: have been, and they say that it's extremely helpful because

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Speaker 1: you're placing yourself in a room full of people who

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Speaker 1: understand you know, you could be from completely different backgrounds, places,

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Speaker 1: whatever it may be, and you're there for one purpose

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Speaker 1: and one purpose only, and it's the same as everyone

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Speaker 1: else in the room. Yeah, that makes you feel like

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Speaker 1: you have a bond with people. And I'm a firm

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Speaker 1: believer of if you're recovering from drugs or alcohol, or

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Speaker 1: you have been affected by someone who's an addict, get

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Speaker 1: in a room. Don't let them scare you. Because it

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Speaker 1: doesn't look like it looks on TV. But you actually

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Speaker 1: feel leaving, You leave feeling amazing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because it does look scary on TV.

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Speaker 5: It looks very serious and dark, and I always picture

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Speaker 5: it taking place in a church, and I'm like.

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Speaker 1: Wells and it takes. There are some that take place

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Speaker 1: at a park, you know, like, yeah, it's there are donuts,

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Speaker 1: which is awesome. Okay, I'm there. Love the donuts coomy, Like,

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Speaker 1: I love that part. But no, there's like I always

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Speaker 1: get a good chuckle out of the meetings, you know,

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Speaker 1: because it's just people telling their stories who have come

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Speaker 1: out on top, and you're like, oh my gosh, the

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Speaker 1: fact that we're talking about such a serious topic but

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Speaker 1: we're remembering it and we can like get a laugh

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Speaker 1: out of it. Yeah, because we've come so far. Get

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Speaker 1: in the rooms. Get in the rooms. That's great. And

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Speaker 1: by the way, you can do it on Zoom now too,

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Speaker 1: you don't even have to be physically in the room.

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Speaker 2: That's great.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been zooming. I've been zooming for quite some time.

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Speaker 1: I love it at Zoom. It's funny because you look

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Speaker 1: at all the squares and everyone's like in their bathroom, Like, well,

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Speaker 1: this is such a vibe.

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Speaker 5: So you've been in perfectly with your gratolic bathroom.

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Speaker 1: We love that. Okay.

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Speaker 3: Next voicemail, Hi, Lala, this is Anna and I wanted

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Speaker 3: to give you a huge. Thank you for having on

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Speaker 3: Bobby Brink and shedding light on animal issues, plus your

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Speaker 3: support and concern for animal welfare shows so much about

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Speaker 3: you and I really appreciate that. And a question I

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Speaker 3: have for you is what is something or different things

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Speaker 3: that you're really looking forward to doing with when she's older.

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Speaker 3: I think every stage is fun, every age is fun.

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Speaker 3: It's all wonderful and it is an honor to be

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Speaker 3: a parent. So I am so happy that you have

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Speaker 3: her and I love hearing about her. So thank you

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Speaker 3: and take care bye.

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Speaker 1: Lalla Anna. Thank you so much for calling in. I'm

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Speaker 1: thrilled that you enjoyed the Bobby Brink podcast. That was

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Speaker 1: one that I was super excited for because I don't

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Speaker 1: think that animals in captivity is spoken about nearly enough.

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Speaker 1: It's only really a well known thing if you're crazy

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Speaker 1: about like freeing the orcas, let the big cats go,

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Speaker 1: all of the above. With Ocean, I will definitely be

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Speaker 1: taking her when she can walk to empty the tanks protests,

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Speaker 1: because before COVID, I used to do that all the time,

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Speaker 1: and I was this like I would literally have like

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Speaker 1: head to toe free the orcas, Garret. I would walk

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Speaker 1: on the Santa Monica Pierre and be like, we wouldn't

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Speaker 1: keep your kids in bathtubs? Why would you keep the

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Speaker 1: orcas in a tang would you really want?

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Speaker 6: Like?

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Speaker 2: Yes, person where they're in, the.

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Speaker 1: Person on the Santa Monica pre handing out flyers, one

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Speaker 1: guy through his to the ground. And that's the guy

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Speaker 1: when I started because I was like, how would you

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Speaker 1: feel if I kept you in a bathtub for your

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Speaker 1: entire life? Yeah, that's what they do to these orcas.

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Speaker 1: So what they do to these whales, you know, yeah, dolphins.

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Speaker 1: So I picked it up and I handed in and

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Speaker 1: I said, if you don't want it, throw it away

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Speaker 1: behind my back. You know, I don't do it right

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Speaker 1: in front of you. But I will definitely be taking

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Speaker 1: her to do all of that stuff, you know. That's sweet.

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Speaker 1: I'll take her to fucksy world protests. Now.

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Speaker 2: I love that you and your mom bondo for that too.

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Speaker 2: That's a great thing.

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Speaker 1: Well leave the words for the Humane Society. So she's

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Speaker 1: like all about being a part of the greatness that

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Speaker 1: is the well being of animals. Yeah, but the one

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Speaker 1: thing that I'm so I have to share this about ocean.

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Speaker 1: Ocean has sixteeth. Now, okay, and she's a biter. She's

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Speaker 1: a biter. I don't know how to stop her from

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Speaker 1: doing it. She's only nine months and I looked at

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Speaker 1: my arm the other day. I had her in my

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Speaker 1: lap and I was trying to file her nails down

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Speaker 1: because anyone who has babies just come. I'm telling you,

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Speaker 1: you have to do it like every other day because

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Speaker 1: the corners grow and she rubs her eyes so she'll

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Speaker 1: have like a little nick in the corner of her eye.

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Speaker 1: And that's what I know. I need to find the

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Speaker 1: culprit of this. So I file her nails and she's

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Speaker 1: biting my arm. I have bite marks up and down

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Speaker 1: my arm and I don't know how to stop it.

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Speaker 1: So if anybody knows how to stop a ten month

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Speaker 1: old almost from biting, please call into eight six y

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Speaker 1: six La La Pod. I need to know.

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Speaker 2: I'm dying to hear this.

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Speaker 1: So she's a bier right now. But when she's able,

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Speaker 1: I really want to put her into co ed soccer

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Speaker 1: because there's something about the little shin pads that make

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Speaker 1: me so happy.

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Speaker 2: Running around and then kicking into the wrong goal.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so cute. That's what I'm looking forward to the

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Speaker 1: most is putting her in sports that is going to

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Speaker 1: be really cute. Yes, and going to practice and setting

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Speaker 1: out my fold out chair and like it's my day

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Speaker 1: to do treats. Soccer mom, Yes, I can't wait. And

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Speaker 1: every Saturday is game day. I'll get at her level

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Speaker 1: and be like, you got this, babe, You've got this.

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Speaker 1: I may even be the coach if they'd let me.

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Speaker 2: Oh, that would be so fun.

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Speaker 1: That would be so cool.

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Speaker 2: Did you play soccer?

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Speaker 1: I played everything. I don't know if my mom was

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Speaker 1: like just trying to get me out of the house,

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Speaker 1: but I literally never had five minutes. I was like, really,

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Speaker 1: get your tennis racket, and then make sure you have

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Speaker 1: your te ball stuff, and do you have your stuff

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Speaker 1: for dance, and then after that we'll headed out to

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Speaker 1: play some more volleyball. And I didn't have five minutes.

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Speaker 2: Oh man, it was exhausting.

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Speaker 5: You tried it all, and so at least your mom

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Speaker 5: could say, well, she's not destined to be in the

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Speaker 5: Olympics because we tried it and it didn't work out.

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Speaker 1: We tried everything, And can I tell you what I

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Speaker 1: love about my mom is there were things like piano.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to do piano I told my dad I

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Speaker 1: wanted a baby grand He got it for me so sweet.

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Speaker 1: And I told my mom I hated piano, and she said,

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Speaker 1: you committed to it, so you will continue to do it.

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Speaker 1: And she gave me a date. We looked at the

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Speaker 1: calendar and she said, if you don't like it at

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Speaker 1: this time, what was it like?

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Speaker 7: A year?

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Speaker 1: I think I have to do it for a whole year.

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Speaker 1: If you don't like it at this time next year,

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Speaker 1: then you can stop. And she made me go.

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Speaker 2: And did that time hit the next year? And you

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Speaker 2: were like, great, can and I can stop?

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Speaker 1: Got the fuck out. And now I watch Alicia Keys

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, why did I not keep doing it?

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Speaker 1: As if I was ever going to be Alicia Keys

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Speaker 1: it could have been. No, that's God given. You can't.

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Speaker 1: You can't learn that shit, Jess, You could, can you?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. No, I don't know either. Yeah, like

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Speaker 1: you can't just like learn to be Selene Deon, Like

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Speaker 1: God gave that to you. You're Celene deonr Tank.

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Speaker 2: Yes, all right, last voicemail.

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Speaker 7: Hey Laala, this is Erica calling from Chicago, Illinois. I

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Speaker 7: absolutely love the podcast, love listening to you and love

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Speaker 7: how absolutely badass and you have become after everything that's

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Speaker 7: kind of going on in your life. But anyway, I

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Speaker 7: wanted to quickly ask, where are you going to have

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Speaker 7: merch come out? I'm so excited to see what else

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Speaker 7: you come out with. I didn't get a chance to

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Speaker 7: get a brand new sweatshirt since they were sold out,

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Speaker 7: so I absolutely love if you came out with new merch.

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Speaker 7: Thank you. Can't wait to listen to next week's podcast.

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Speaker 1: Erica. I am so glad that you like the merch.

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Speaker 1: The merch is something I'm proud of. I think it's

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Speaker 1: super cute. I was obsessed with the fact that everyone

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Speaker 1: loved the brand new merch, and we're coming out with

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Speaker 1: it again, like this was like a little test run.

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Speaker 1: Let's see how it does. I'm all about let's see

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Speaker 1: how it does. Do people fuck with it? People fucks

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Speaker 1: with it. Yeah, So we're coming out with more brand

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Speaker 1: new hoodies, different colors. I think people liked the light pink,

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Speaker 1: so we'll come back with that too, And then I

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Speaker 1: have a really amazing merch coming out that will also

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Speaker 1: be available on tour.

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Speaker 3: Woo.

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Speaker 2: It's so good, guys, it's so good good.

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Speaker 1: I know the merch is everything. So thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for asking about the merch Erica. I'm so happy

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Speaker 1: you like it. We are going to cut to a

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Speaker 1: short break and we wi bit bit bit, and when

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Speaker 1: we come back, we have Tina swiftin. All right, you guys,

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Speaker 1: we are back and this is a podcast episode and

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Speaker 1: guest that so many of you have been begging for

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Speaker 1: and I'm so excited that it's finally happening. We have

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Speaker 1: Tina Swiften and she is an expert on narcissism. So Tina,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the Give Them While of podcast.

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Speaker 6: Thank you. I'm so excited to be here because I've

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Speaker 6: followed a little bit of you know that it's becomes

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Speaker 6: such a topic in today's world. You know, sometimes it's

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Speaker 6: overused and misused. But I'm overall so thankful that this

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Speaker 6: topic has had such a presence because it's so important

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Speaker 6: that we're talking about it, that we're educating in the

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Speaker 6: next generation on it. Because I surely wasn't aware of

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Speaker 6: the red flags and all of those things, which is

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Speaker 6: how I ended up in this situation. But here we are,

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Speaker 6: and I'm excited.

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited as well. So I know a bit

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Speaker 1: about your background and how you became an expert on

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Speaker 1: narcissism and would you say that this is something that

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Speaker 1: you became passionate about and warning people after your story?

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Speaker 1: How what happened in your life where you realized you

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Speaker 1: were with a narcissist, knew you had to get out

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Speaker 1: walk us down that road with you.

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Speaker 6: I met a person back in two thousand. I was

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Speaker 6: actually twenty six years old. Now what I see it

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Speaker 6: to be as love bombing. Back then, I just thought, Wow,

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Speaker 6: I am finally in an adult relationship with a man

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Speaker 6: who knows how to treat someone. And for me, it

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Speaker 6: wasn't about the material things, it wasn't about the money.

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Speaker 6: It was very much, you know, he seemed to care,

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Speaker 6: you know, to an extreme amount, something I had never

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Speaker 6: experienced before, and you know, hanging on my every word

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Speaker 6: and wanting to know everything about me. And I felt like,

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Speaker 6: you know, I was up on a pedestal and that

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Speaker 6: someone you know, finally accepted me and was loving me

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Speaker 6: for who I am. And it was a whirlwind romance.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 6: If I mentioned, you know, I would love to go

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Speaker 6: to Seattle the next day, I would have plane tickets

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Speaker 6: on my pillow to go to Seattle. You know, if

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Speaker 6: I happened to walk by a store and see a

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Speaker 6: pair of shoes and comment on them, they would be wrapped,

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Speaker 6: you know, and presented to me the next day. It

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Speaker 6: was overwhelming. Now I understand what love bombing is. That

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Speaker 6: was the goal. Your head is spinning, you can't you know,

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Speaker 6: you're so that the attention is so much that you

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Speaker 6: truly can't think, And that's their goal. So yeah, I

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Speaker 6: found myself in this whirlwind romance that moved so fast.

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Speaker 1: I relate to your story. I feel like you're actually

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Speaker 1: telling mine and with people who have you know, I've

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Speaker 1: shared a little bit about my experience with my relationship

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Speaker 1: and how it came to be and how it ended,

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Speaker 1: and there are so many women who have had the

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Speaker 1: exact same thing. And I think that's why, you know,

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Speaker 1: they've been begging for certain guests on the podcast. So

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Speaker 1: at what point in time you did you have children

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Speaker 1: with this person?

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Speaker 6: So we did. We were married in a year and

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Speaker 6: a half, and you know, in line with the whirlwind romance,

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Speaker 6: he wisked me away to Maui and proposed to me

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Speaker 6: while we were there. And then the next line after

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Speaker 6: the proposal was let's just get married while we're here

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Speaker 6: and not tell anybody. So we got married three days

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Speaker 6: later in Maui, and you know, it's this, You're caught

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Speaker 6: up in this. You know, it's hard to explain to people.

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Speaker 6: You know, this love bombing. This you feel it's authentic,

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Speaker 6: you believe it's real, but it's all a game to

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Speaker 6: the other party, and that's hard to come to grips

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Speaker 6: with that. You know, you're falling in love with a facade.

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Speaker 6: Hindsight on that is twenty twenty. So we got married

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Speaker 6: in Maui in two thousand and one, and then you

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Speaker 6: slowly this shift starts happening. You know, in the beginning,

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Speaker 6: the good is up here, and you know, then you

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Speaker 6: start seeing little things creep in and what I can

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Speaker 6: now see as red flags. But when you're in it,

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Speaker 6: you're kind of I remember thinking to myself, no one's perfect,

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Speaker 6: and we all have our things, and you those that's

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Speaker 6: where the excuses start, and you go, you know, if

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Speaker 6: I'm expecting perfection, I'm being unrealistic. You know, we all

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Speaker 6: bring our baggage in and you excuse away those little

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Speaker 6: things that start creeping in. And for most people who

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Speaker 6: have been targeted by a narcissist. They go after people

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Speaker 6: who are the exact opposite of themselves, who exude positivity

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Speaker 6: and confidence and all of those, you know, the positive

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Speaker 6: traits honesty, compassion, empathy, and so you know, when those

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Speaker 6: little things creep in, all of those traits that we

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Speaker 6: as targets bring into that equation work in their favor.

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Speaker 6: So you excuse those things, and as time goes on,

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Speaker 6: those things start to build a little bit. But by

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Speaker 6: the time you recognize that there's a serious problem, you know,

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Speaker 6: you're in such a deep fog because it's confusing. You know,

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Speaker 6: when the big red flags present themselves, you go back

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Speaker 6: to but he was such an amazing person, and he

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Speaker 6: said these things and he did these things, And we're

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Speaker 6: projecting our own authentic, positive qualities onto someone who's not

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Speaker 6: deserving of those things. So that's another area where we'rek's

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Speaker 6: using bad behavior and going but at his pore, I

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Speaker 6: know who he is. He's all those things he sold

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Speaker 6: me on in the beginning. And then by the time

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Speaker 6: the bad, you know, outweighs the good and that pendulum shifts,

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Speaker 6: you're so deep into it and in this state of

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Speaker 6: confusion that you know, you start thinking am I the problem,

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Speaker 6: and that's part of the psychological manipulating and gas lighting

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Speaker 6: that takes place over time. It's insidious, It creeps in

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Speaker 6: and you don't even recognize what it is because you know,

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Speaker 6: we've never been taught any of these things. We're only

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Speaker 6: now starting to talk about narcissistic abuse and psychological abuse

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Speaker 6: and emotional manipulation.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 6: I can think back to my marriage two thousand and eight.

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Speaker 6: I found myself in a really dark place in my

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Speaker 6: marriage because the lies had presented themselves to the point

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Speaker 6: where I couldn't deny them. I found out he had

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Speaker 6: ran us up over a million dollars in debt. I

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Speaker 6: can't even to this day grasp that dollar amount when

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Speaker 6: it comes to debt. I mean that I don't like

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Speaker 6: having a credit card with five thousand dollars, you know,

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Speaker 6: owing to somebody. So to find out that I don't

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Speaker 6: even know who I married, who I fell in love with,

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Speaker 6: that I fell in love with a facade, a con artist.

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Speaker 6: But by the time reality truly hit me in the

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Speaker 6: face and I couldn't deny it or excuse it anymore.

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Speaker 6: I had two little girls that were under the age

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Speaker 6: of two and four. I mean they were babies, and

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Speaker 6: over time the uneven playing field and the dynamic and

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Speaker 6: I love what you talk about about. You know, you

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Speaker 6: all you had a plan b you you know, financially,

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Speaker 6: had secured yourselves. I that's one of the biggest mistakes

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Speaker 6: I ever made, was completely turning over the financial situation

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Speaker 6: to my husband. So by the time, you know, two

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Speaker 6: thousand and eight came and I just I truly thought

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Speaker 6: it was me like, I'm going to go to counseling.

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Speaker 6: I'm going to figure out what what I what I'm doing.

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Speaker 6: You know what's wrong?

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Speaker 1: Was that his idea for you to go see a therapist.

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Speaker 6: I had been begging for us to go to couples

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Speaker 6: therapy forever, and he would constantly tell me, these aren't

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Speaker 6: my issues. You know, your mom was bipolar. Your you

432
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:53,120
Speaker 6: know you have a history of mental illness in your family.

433
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,199
Speaker 6: You know, to him, he knew that my biggest button

434
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 6: was my mom and bipolar. She committed suicide, and he knew,

435
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:08,920
Speaker 6: you know, they know where your jugular is emotionary, and

436
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:13,719
Speaker 6: so if I cried over our dog dying, he would say,

437
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 6: you're bipolar. You know, you should look into this. So

438
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 6: over time and he knew that was my greatest fear,

439
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:26,680
Speaker 6: was turning out like my mom, and he knew how

440
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 6: to use that in a way to destroy me. So

441
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 6: by the time I ended up on a therapist couch,

442
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 6: it was after begging him for a long time to

443
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:44,119
Speaker 6: go to therapy with me and him refusing. And I

444
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 6: still remember calling around randomly just trying to find a therapist,

445
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 6: and this lady actually answered the phone and said, I

446
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:57,159
Speaker 6: had a cancelation today this afternoon. If you want to

447
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 6: come in today, let's talk. And I went in there

448
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 6: and I just remember being so distraught and her she

449
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 6: heard me. I emotionally vomited in this woman's office and

450
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 6: basically she said to me, you're not the problem. And

451
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 6: I can't diagnose this person. I don't know him, but

452
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,119
Speaker 6: I want you to read something. And she walked across

453
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 6: the room, brought back the DSM five and basically had

454
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 6: me read the excerpt on narcissistic personality disorder.

455
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 1: Wow. The fact that she that it shook because what

456
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 1: I've read and I don't know if this is correct,

457
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 1: but there are not many therapists. I believe it was

458
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 1: around five percent of therapists are actually familiar and well

459
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:46,880
Speaker 1: versed in narcissism.

460
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,360
Speaker 6: Right, So they're training and I've talked to a lot

461
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 6: of psychologists about this. They skim right past personality disorders.

462
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 6: I mean, they read the textbook definition of what it means.

463
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:05,200
Speaker 6: But in my experience, unless a therapist has personally walked

464
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 6: this path, either with a narcissistic parent or a partner

465
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 6: or a family member, I don't think they can truly get,

466
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 6: you know, the intricacies that are in play in these situations.

467
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 6: So now I understand that I found the rare unicorn

468
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 6: of the therapy world. And in sure enough, it was

469
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 6: because this lady had personally experienced it in her life.

470
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 6: But here's the thing. When she told me that, and

471
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,399
Speaker 6: I used to be a fixer, and so when she

472
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,439
Speaker 6: told me this is what you're dealing with, I actually

473
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,439
Speaker 6: got excited. I was like, oh my god, we have

474
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 6: a label, we have a title.

475
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:51,439
Speaker 1: What are we going to do?

476
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 6: How do we fix him?

477
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 1: Right? Like you thought it was a project, right, And.

478
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 6: So now I can look back and go, oh, you

479
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 6: have sweet little like I just want to go back

480
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 6: in time and hug myself and go, h you know.

481
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 6: I actually went home to him that night and said

482
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 6: she thinks you're a narcissist, Like, let's fix this, and

483
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:17,440
Speaker 6: so we looked it up together, we googled it, and

484
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 6: back then we're talking two thousand and eight, there was

485
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 6: nothing out there on this topic. You know, you could

486
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 6: find the definition of it, but no one was talking

487
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 6: about it. There were no resources. And so I still

488
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 6: remember when he read the descriptor and he goes, well,

489
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 6: you know, that sounds like my dad, but that doesn't

490
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 6: sound like me. But even still back then, in my

491
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 6: rose colored glasses optimistic mind, I was like, Okay, we

492
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 6: are making progress because he and his dad are the

493
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 6: same person. So if he has recognized this in his dad,

494
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 6: we are on the right track, right, Yeah.

495
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: And is narcissism something that can be cured?

496
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 6: No, zero cure there. And I'll tell you, with the

497
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 6: healing that I've done and now that my kids are safe,

498
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 6: I have compassion. I do because I can't imagine, you know,

499
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 6: having any type of diagnosis where someone tells me there's

500
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,719
Speaker 6: literally nothing we can do for you. You know, there's no

501
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 6: And I want to preface I'm not a mental health professional.

502
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 6: I'm not qualified to diagnose anybody. Obviously, much of this

503
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 6: is my own research over the past decade and learned experience.

504
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 6: But you know, you a therapist, all they can do

505
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 6: with a narcissist is teach them essentially how to act.

506
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 6: So they're actors in the world. They're going out there

507
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 6: and they're role playing.

508
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 4: You know.

509
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 6: I've talked to narcissists who say, if I'm going to

510
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 6: a wedding, I'll watch a wedding scene on TV to

511
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 6: study how people act at weddings so I know, or

512
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 6: at funerals, like what is the appropriate because they truly

513
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 6: aren't capable of connecting to that level to where it

514
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 6: just comes naturally to them. They truly do, you know, study,

515
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 6: And it's true of sociopaths, and I think with the narcissist,

516
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 6: the higher they are on the scale of narcissism, the

517
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 6: more that applies to where they truly they are actors.

518
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 6: They're walking through life, playing everybody around them. It's like

519
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 6: a big chess game to them.

520
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 1: Like I said, I've done some research. Obviously, you're the

521
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 1: expert in this between the two of us, and I'm

522
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 1: sure a lot of others. But I've been following this

523
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 1: doctor on social media and she describes narcissist as using

524
00:30:56,200 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 1: people like you and I as an energy source basically

525
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 1: morph into whoever you are to get what they need.

526
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: And they have they don't have that part of them

527
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 1: where they can have empathy or sympathy. It's always what

528
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: can you do for me? And they will stop at

529
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 1: nothing to make sure that they are never seen for

530
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 1: who they truly are, right.

531
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 6: And they become you know, I know, looking back, you

532
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 6: know I was very you know, I was the social one.

533
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 6: He was very socially awkward, and so he gravitated towards

534
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 6: people me or other you know, I can't say friends,

535
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 6: because any of his friends or their friends are very superficial.

536
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 6: It's very surface level. It is what can you do

537
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 6: for me? And they have the ability to walk into

538
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 6: a crowd at a dinner party or whatnot, and they

539
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 6: know who to let know they're going to pick up

540
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 6: the tab and pay for everybody. You know, it's who's

541
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 6: going to so advance them or tell everybody or they

542
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 6: can impress. I mean, it's from a psychological standpoint, it's

543
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 6: absolutely fascinating to watch and to study, but when it's

544
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 6: your life, there's nothing fascinating about it.

545
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 1: I couldn't agree with you more and you know, you

546
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 1: said something that I relate to when you started talking

547
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 1: about your story. It's a whirlwind and before you know it,

548
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 1: you're so deep into it. And do you think once

549
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 1: you had kids is when you started seeing things a

550
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 1: little bit differently where you I feel like children really

551
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: open our eyes as mothers. There's just something that happens

552
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 1: to us where we're just hyper sensitive to what's going

553
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 1: on in the world and what's going on in our home.

554
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 1: Did that happen to you?

555
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 6: Absolutely? My mind was obsessed with food and body image

556
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 6: and you know, buying me books on the perfect abs

557
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 6: two weeks after I had had a C section and

558
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 6: given birth, you know. So so when all of those

559
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 6: things that I had lived and hurt me so deeply

560
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 6: started affecting my daughters, like when he would say, are

561
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 6: you going to really let her eat fetucini? And she

562
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 6: was four, that's where the mama bear and me went, oh, no,

563
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 6: you're not. You know, when it's one thing if I'm

564
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 6: in the fog and I am experiencing this psychological abuse

565
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 6: and emotional abuse, but you mess with my little girls

566
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 6: and you have no idea. The claws are out. And

567
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 6: those were my wake up calls. Was you know, when

568
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 6: I and when I would realized that. You know, for one,

569
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 6: he was gone all the time, so I was I

570
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 6: considered my nanny as my co parent.

571
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 1: You know, I had an appointment.

572
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 6: If I had to go anywhere I called my nanny,

573
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 6: I would. He would have been so far down on

574
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 6: my list of resources during my marriage, for one, because

575
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 6: I didn't trust that he could be present with them.

576
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 6: He was going to be on the phone, he was

577
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 6: going to be on the computer, he was going to

578
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 6: be trying to run on the treadmill, you know, while

579
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 6: my two year old's choking. So it was you know,

580
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 6: during my marriage, I was able to shelter my daughters

581
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 6: from so much, but as they got older and more aware,

582
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 6: when I started realizing that they were going to be

583
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,840
Speaker 6: viewing how he spoke to me, what he did to me,

584
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 6: and thinking that that was normal and that I was

585
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 6: creating a foundation for my little girls to grow go

586
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 6: up into the world and feel that this was normal

587
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 6: and this is what marriage was about. That's where it

588
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 6: really hit me hard. And you know, after I heard

589
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 6: those words from my thererapist, you know that he was

590
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:06,280
Speaker 6: likely a narcissist or she even said possibly a sociopath.

591
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 1: I've heard they go from from therapists, like I said,

592
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 1: the small percentage that are very well versed on this topic.

593
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 1: They have said narcissism and sociopaths go hand in hand.

594
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 6: So not all narcissists are sociopaths, but all sociopaths are narcissists.

595
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 1: Okay, thank you for clarifying.

596
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 6: That it's it's anti social personality disorder. They're all in

597
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 6: the same clump of cluster B disorders, so it's histrionic,

598
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 6: borderline narcissism, and then antisocial, which the street term for

599
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:47,879
Speaker 6: that is sociopath. And yeah, so you know now, looking back,

600
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 6: I truly do believe my ex is probably more in

601
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 6: that anti social category, but again, not qualified to diagnose him.

602
00:35:56,640 --> 00:36:02,400
Speaker 1: But yeah, I love what you said about your children

603
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 1: and how I get it. Mama bear is a real thing.

604
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: My claws come out to You can do whatever you

605
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 1: want to me, but when it comes to ocean, I

606
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 1: will claw your eyes out. So you sitting there going

607
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 1: I will be damned if my children grow up and

608
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 1: think that this is how a man should be treating them.

609
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 1: Was there ever a part of you that said, you know,

610
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 1: I need to protect him, because I don't want to

611
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 1: speak on the child or the father of my child

612
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:42,360
Speaker 1: this way, Like was there a part of you that

613
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 1: was that was nervous, like you wanted to create him

614
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:48,399
Speaker 1: in this light where they didn't think a certain way

615
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 1: about him, or were you so gung ho about I

616
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:56,959
Speaker 1: can't let my child find someone like this and think

617
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:57,760
Speaker 1: that it's healthy.

618
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 6: So I navigated that so carefully, because you know, I

619
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 6: back then, truly I understood narcissism enough to know what

620
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 6: I was dealing with. I had no idea that once

621
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 6: the separation started that my children would become ponds. I

622
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 6: was naive in believing that because he had zero connection

623
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:29,800
Speaker 6: with them during the marriage, zero bond, zero any interaction

624
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 6: unless people were around or a camera I was on

625
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:36,799
Speaker 6: that was And so I didn't really I hadn't put

626
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:41,359
Speaker 6: all those pieces together. So in my naive mind, I thought,

627
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 6: when we separate, he's going to be forced to step

628
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:49,439
Speaker 6: up to the plate and be a dad because he's

629
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:51,959
Speaker 6: going to have to be one on one with them.

630
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 6: I didn't understand how dangerous that actually is. Once I

631
00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 6: started educating myself on that, and I refer to it

632
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 6: as post separation abuse, I actually have a people can

633
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:08,760
Speaker 6: look it up. It's postseparation abuse dot com. It's literally

634
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:13,359
Speaker 6: the playbook of the narcissist. I didn't realize. I thought

635
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 6: that we're going to get divorced, and I'm going to

636
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 6: get the kids like ninety percent of the time, because

637
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:22,879
Speaker 6: I've raised them ninety nine percent of the time, So

638
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,959
Speaker 6: why wouldn't we just do that. I didn't think he'd

639
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 6: want anything to do with them. I didn't realize that

640
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 6: the playbook of the narcissist is to come for the

641
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 6: kids because they know that's the number one way to

642
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 6: hurt you, but to maintain control, and so the children

643
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:46,840
Speaker 6: become their pawns and their weapons. And I had no idea.

644
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 6: So once I started realizing that the family court system

645
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 6: didn't care that he had never participated, all they cared

646
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,840
Speaker 6: about was that he showed up. You know, there's so

647
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 6: many deadbeat parents in the system that the narcissist gets

648
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 6: five gold stars in the eyes of the court many times.

649
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 6: You know, it's not the end all be all. It

650
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 6: takes time to chip away at that. But initially they

651
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 6: were willing to give him a chance to be a

652
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 6: parent even though he hadn't, and that was probably the

653
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:27,239
Speaker 6: biggest gut punch for me of all, and I, you know,

654
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 6: have never I was raised by my dad, and so

655
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 6: my strategy and it wasn't strategy at the time, but

656
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 6: it was just very much educating my daughters on what

657
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 6: red flags are in general, whether we're talking about the

658
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:48,360
Speaker 6: three year old in preschool who pulled her hair or

659
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:51,240
Speaker 6: you know, the six year old who stole a cookie

660
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 6: out of her lunch box. You know, it became you know,

661
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 6: what are boundaries where are I have boundaries that are mental.

662
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 6: I have boundaries that are mo I have boundaries that

663
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 6: are physical. You know, teaching my daughters all of the

664
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 6: lessons that I didn't learn which allowed me to end

665
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 6: up with this type of person, and instilling in her

666
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:18,279
Speaker 6: in them what healthy looks like. And so if I

667
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 6: were in a restaurant and someone was speaking very poorly

668
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:25,400
Speaker 6: to a waitress, I would bring that up in conversation

669
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 6: with my kids and say, when someone speaks to any

670
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:34,799
Speaker 6: human like that, that is a huge red flag for

671
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 6: me in that person. And so I used every day

672
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 6: conversations with my kids at their level, whether it was

673
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 6: TV shows or something we heard on the radio, to

674
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:51,360
Speaker 6: teach them what healthy looks like, and then to also

675
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 6: model it myself and letting them know that, you know,

676
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:59,239
Speaker 6: when you talk, mom is here, I am engaged, I

677
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 6: am listening, I will your voice is the most important

678
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:07,399
Speaker 6: voice in my world. And you know, there's a lot

679
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 6: of you. It's exhausting because you're countering the damage that

680
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:15,879
Speaker 6: the narcissist is doing to them. But I am a

681
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:20,240
Speaker 6: firm believer that a child only needs one healthy parent,

682
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 6: one rock to turn out okay, even if you do

683
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 6: have a narcissist or a sociopath on the other end.

684
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:32,840
Speaker 6: So my strategy has always been to, you know, teach

685
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:37,359
Speaker 6: them the lessons I wish I would have had, but

686
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 6: never directed to their dad. But I will tell you,

687
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:44,359
Speaker 6: when they started connecting the dots on their own, it

688
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:47,800
Speaker 6: was more powerful than anything I could have ever said.

689
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 1: Wow, that just gave me chills. And how old are

690
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 1: your children now?

691
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:56,399
Speaker 6: We just went and looked at colleges in San Francisco

692
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 6: this weekend.

693
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, they're they're grown up.

694
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 6: Yeah, almost fifteen and almost seventeen.

695
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 1: Well, I want to take a short break and then

696
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 1: I want to come back and pick your brain somewhere,

697
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:15,799
Speaker 1: So we'll be right back with Tina Swan. We are

698
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 1: back with someone who is absolutely brilliant in my eyes.

699
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:25,280
Speaker 1: And again, you guys have been begging for Tina Swan

700
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 1: and here she is. Hi, Tina hy So you just

701
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:32,880
Speaker 1: sent you just went and looked at colleges. I'm sure

702
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 1: that that was beyond hard? Was it?

703
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 6: It is? But I am you know it goes back

704
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 6: to I truly believe takes one healthy parent. And you know,

705
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:49,839
Speaker 6: I am a success story in family court because of

706
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 6: the way I approached it, because of the way I

707
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 6: navigated it, and my kids are safe today. We've I

708
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:04,680
Speaker 6: successfully terminated did his parntal rights, which is almost unheard

709
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 6: of in the family court system.

710
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 1: Can you how long did that take you to? I mean,

711
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 1: I know it was a long journey for you. Do

712
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 1: you mind me asking did your ex was? I know

713
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 1: that he wasn't present, but along with him not being present,

714
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: was there any you know, drug or alcohol abuse, sex

715
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:31,879
Speaker 1: addiction was there? And like what else can you tell

716
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:35,840
Speaker 1: us that that he kind? Like what did he possess

717
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,280
Speaker 1: in this narcissistic behavior?

718
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:42,800
Speaker 6: So when our custody battle started, he was actually going

719
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 6: for full custody. He wanted to take.

720
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:46,879
Speaker 1: My daughter custody.

721
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 6: He would have rather paid a nanny to raise my

722
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:54,839
Speaker 6: kids because he knew that's that would hurt me. So

723
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 6: I have an autoimmune disease. He tried to use my

724
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 6: physic disabilities, you know, my my mother's mental health, which

725
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:07,840
Speaker 6: I have a clean bill. You know I have my shit.

726
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:12,400
Speaker 6: Blame me, but you know nothing. He wanted one hundred

727
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 6: percent custody of my kids. I ended up starting my

728
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:19,840
Speaker 6: custody battle with one hundred and seventy eight dollars to

729
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 6: my name because he had financially devastated us. He put

730
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:27,720
Speaker 6: us in debt to such a degree that we lost

731
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:31,839
Speaker 6: our house, our businesses, our cars. My cars were being

732
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 6: repossessed out of my driveway. I was so in the

733
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:40,320
Speaker 6: dark about our finances that by the time I left

734
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:44,760
Speaker 6: or the marriage ended, I had nothing, no savings account,

735
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 6: no college fund to pull from from my kids, no

736
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 6: no retirement. I had one hundred and seventy eight dollars.

737
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 6: So I'm going to food pantries to feed my kids.

738
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 6: Back then, after living in a mini mansion and driving

739
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:02,279
Speaker 6: a Mercedes to you know, trying to figure out where

740
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:07,360
Speaker 6: my groceries are coming from. He destroyed me. So I

741
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 6: went into the court battle with no attorney. I went

742
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 6: through the entire court battle until the last ten years.

743
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 6: The year ten without an attorney. I represented myself in

744
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 6: family court and I was up against him his attorneys.

745
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:28,839
Speaker 6: Over the years, he circled through, cycled through them. And

746
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:33,399
Speaker 6: it was the most daunting thing I've ever been through,

747
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 6: because if you're mad at me, I will literally be

748
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,880
Speaker 6: awake tonight worrying about it. You know, I am conflict

749
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 6: avoidant by nature to a fault, actually, and so I

750
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 6: was thrust into this family court system. I had never

751
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 6: stepped foot in family court. I had no idea. I

752
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 6: was naive, believing that they just protected kids, and so

753
00:45:57,840 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 6: it was a huge wake up call to me that

754
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:05,600
Speaker 6: parntal rights carry more weight than child safety. I started

755
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 6: going to sit in the courtroom and observe proceedings when

756
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 6: it wasn't my case. I started studying different cases that

757
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:17,440
Speaker 6: I would see in the courtroom to understand how attorneys

758
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:21,800
Speaker 6: filed things, what language they used, what case law they cited.

759
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 6: I had to become an expert while working full time

760
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 6: and having my kids the majority of the time, you know,

761
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 6: I had to become an expert on the court system

762
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 6: and just sitting in court and watching how attorneys said things,

763
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:41,279
Speaker 6: studying my judge. And you know, that's a mistake a

764
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 6: lot of people make, is that they don't research who

765
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:48,919
Speaker 6: the judge is, what the judge's biases are. You could

766
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 6: walk into five different courtrooms with the exact same case,

767
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:56,320
Speaker 6: and you're going to leave with five different outcomes based

768
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:59,760
Speaker 6: on who you are in front of. So I became

769
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 6: an expert in my local court system. I'm here in

770
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 6: San Louis Obispo, California, and just really understanding that to

771
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:16,359
Speaker 6: the court, these are just business transactions and emotions are

772
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 6: best kept on your therapist couch, and that you have

773
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 6: to you know, you're both under a microscope. Even if

774
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:27,000
Speaker 6: this other person is the worst person in the world,

775
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 6: the court doesn't know either of you, and so how

776
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 6: we present is critical. And so you know that my

777
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 6: journey started in nine and officially terminated parntal rights in

778
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:45,440
Speaker 6: twenty nineteen. But I will say there was a big

779
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:48,720
Speaker 6: gap when my kids had no contact, you know, from

780
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:54,720
Speaker 6: in twenty fourteen, after our second child, custody evaluation, minors,

781
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:58,959
Speaker 6: counsel being appointed, all this stuff finally said no more,

782
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 6: and so my kids didn't see him again after twenty fourteen.

783
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:07,840
Speaker 1: And they haven't seen him since twenty fourteen.

784
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:10,799
Speaker 6: And they don't want to. They want absolutely nothing to

785
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:13,600
Speaker 6: do with him. But back to your question, because I

786
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 6: went off on a rant.

787
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 1: No, I love it, this is I'm I'm all here

788
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 1: for it. You talk freely.

789
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 6: It was alcohol for him, and you know, I you know,

790
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 6: the reality is narcissists are their own worst enemy. They

791
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:30,920
Speaker 6: you know, you have to go back to baseline, what

792
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:35,719
Speaker 6: it was like before the court that separation, any of

793
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 6: that happened. You know, if I say my ex wasn't

794
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:42,359
Speaker 6: involved ninety five percent of the time or ninety eight

795
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:46,279
Speaker 6: percent of the time, that's their mo that's their baseline.

796
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:50,920
Speaker 6: That's how much the kids really matter to them. So

797
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:55,040
Speaker 6: but when they're getting the speed from the breakup or

798
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:59,360
Speaker 6: you know, publicity or whatever it is they're going to

799
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 6: feed keeps them fueled. And so in my situation, the

800
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:09,560
Speaker 6: court kept him going. But when there was a lull

801
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 6: between court dates, like we didn't have something scheduled for

802
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:15,760
Speaker 6: six months, he would go back to his baseline behavior,

803
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:18,960
Speaker 6: you know, not showing up for visits. His schedule was

804
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:21,719
Speaker 6: so busy, he had to travel work, you know, but

805
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 6: in my case, a lot of it came down to alcoholism,

806
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:29,000
Speaker 6: you know, because he has a problem with alcohol. He

807
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 6: was either you know, hungover or wanting his next drink

808
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 6: or drinking, and so whatever type of addiction it is,

809
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:44,920
Speaker 6: whether it's sex, addiction, porn, work, exercise, you know, drugs, alcohol,

810
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 6: it keeps them from functioning at one hundred percent. So

811
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:53,440
Speaker 6: a lot of times I'll say I didn't successfully protect

812
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 6: my kids because he was a narcissist. The courts don't

813
00:49:57,160 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 6: care about that at all in my kids because he

814
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 6: couldn't keep the mask on because of his addiction issues.

815
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:09,319
Speaker 1: That makes total sense, and I've actually read that as well.

816
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 1: It's they use those moments of like keeping the mask

817
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:16,840
Speaker 1: on as fuel. But it's something that they can't do

818
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 1: forever because who in the world can play pretend forever? Right,

819
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:24,399
Speaker 1: Eventually they'll go back to who they really are.

820
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:27,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, and they don't get a you know, let's let's

821
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:32,240
Speaker 6: be honest. Parenting can be tedious. It is selfless work.

822
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:33,040
Speaker 4: You know.

823
00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:37,120
Speaker 6: The narcissist isn't capable of truly showing up for another

824
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 6: human and devoting their one hundred percent to this amazing

825
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:45,920
Speaker 6: little person. You know, there it's about the Instagram photo

826
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:48,839
Speaker 6: or the you know, the self total that they can

827
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:51,520
Speaker 6: promote to everybody about what a great parent they are.

828
00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:57,280
Speaker 6: But that's not what parenting is. The narcissist is truly

829
00:50:57,400 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 6: not capable of being.

830
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 1: A parent's right. And I've, like I said, I've read that,

831
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 1: and I can only imagine how terrified you were when

832
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:09,279
Speaker 1: you saw that he was going for full custody. So

833
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 1: in that time period, you you leave the house, do

834
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 1: you get to take your children with you?

835
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:20,840
Speaker 6: So we originally, in my naivity, had a Nestine agreement

836
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:24,840
Speaker 6: because I never wanted my kids to bounce back and forth.

837
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:28,560
Speaker 6: And they were so little. I mean when we truly

838
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 6: like officially separated, they were two and four. And yeah,

839
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 6: so I what, however old I was thirty four years old,

840
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 6: started CouchSurfing. You know, we had our home base and

841
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 6: he worked out of the area and he would come

842
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 6: home on Friday nights. I would leave on Friday nights

843
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:50,160
Speaker 6: and go couch surf on friends' couches and then come

844
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 6: home Sunday morning and take over. And so you know,

845
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 6: that lasted for a while, and then I ended up

846
00:51:57,160 --> 00:52:02,320
Speaker 6: in the women's shelter with my girls. And that really

847
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 6: started our journey of terror. I mean I felt like

848
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 6: the day I got my family court case number, I

849
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:13,200
Speaker 6: was also assigned my own personal terrorist.

850
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:18,440
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that just sent chills up my spine.

851
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:19,279
Speaker 6: Yeah.

852
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:23,360
Speaker 1: So usually when when you're when you're assigned a case number,

853
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:28,520
Speaker 1: you know, did they grant you any type of full

854
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:31,400
Speaker 1: temporary custody in that timeframe?

855
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:34,720
Speaker 6: Well, the first day we were in court, the judge

856
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:39,920
Speaker 6: basically said to us, and it shook me. The judge said,

857
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:43,919
Speaker 6: if you two are starting your divorce this way, you're

858
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:47,520
Speaker 6: in for a rude awakening. And so basically I was

859
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 6: being lumped into the high conflict category without it being warranted.

860
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:56,279
Speaker 6: And in that moment, I just remember sitting there like

861
00:52:56,360 --> 00:53:00,919
Speaker 6: a deer in headlights. No attorney by myself literally got

862
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:04,359
Speaker 6: ready that morning at the women's shelter and show up

863
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:07,920
Speaker 6: in court, and it just felt like, oh my god,

864
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:11,279
Speaker 6: what did I just walk into. If I'm afraid from

865
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:14,800
Speaker 6: my life at the women's shelter, and the judge is saying,

866
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:18,880
Speaker 6: if you too are starting this off this way, and

867
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:20,799
Speaker 6: I you know, and one of the things I've come

868
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:26,960
Speaker 6: to discover is that there are zero requirements for judges

869
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:31,239
Speaker 6: in California to have any training on domestic violence, it's

870
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 6: a mere suggestion. So we've got people behind the bench

871
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:38,880
Speaker 6: who are deciding the fate and future of our children

872
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:45,239
Speaker 6: with no understanding of domestic violence. And that was very

873
00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 6: apparent to me that first day. I will say that

874
00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:52,560
Speaker 6: they recognized that he had anger issues and that I

875
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:57,040
Speaker 6: had painted enough of a picture about my concerns about

876
00:53:57,040 --> 00:54:00,799
Speaker 6: his alcohol use that he did and walk out with

877
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:02,879
Speaker 6: fifty to fifty on that day.

878
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:03,560
Speaker 1: Great.

879
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:07,320
Speaker 6: And so you know his it fluctuated over the years,

880
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:10,000
Speaker 6: but he would have every weekend and then it was

881
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:14,560
Speaker 6: every other weekend. And my mentality is there's nothing final

882
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 6: in family court. I refuse to accept that, you know,

883
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:23,360
Speaker 6: whatever these orders are are in my child's best interest,

884
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:26,640
Speaker 6: I will keep chipping away at it. If this isn't

885
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:30,120
Speaker 6: my starting point, If it's you know, seventy five, twenty

886
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:33,240
Speaker 6: five or whatever the percentage where you know they're dividing

887
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 6: your child like a piece of property. I know that's

888
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:41,120
Speaker 6: a whole other podcast, but I refuse to accept that

889
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 6: as my final destination. Now, even if it's a final

890
00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:47,280
Speaker 6: custody order, my opinion is I'm going to keep chipping

891
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 6: away at it until I can put my head down

892
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:54,200
Speaker 6: on the pillow at night knowing that my daughters are safe.

893
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:57,600
Speaker 6: I just want to hug you through this. I'm going

894
00:54:57,640 --> 00:54:58,400
Speaker 6: to cry too.

895
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:00,600
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry.

896
00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:05,920
Speaker 6: No, please do not apologize. This is It takes me

897
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:10,560
Speaker 6: right back to where I was in those days and

898
00:55:12,239 --> 00:55:14,920
Speaker 6: it's literally the worst thing I've ever been through in

899
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:18,680
Speaker 6: my life. And I one hundred percent feel where you're

900
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:19,399
Speaker 6: at right now.

901
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:23,880
Speaker 1: You are just beyond strong and I'm so and inspiring.

902
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:27,640
Speaker 1: The fact that you you know the hand you were

903
00:55:27,719 --> 00:55:30,279
Speaker 1: dealt and one hundred and seventy eight dollars in your

904
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:33,600
Speaker 1: bank account, and you fought for your children. It just

905
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:37,920
Speaker 1: goes to show that a mother will stop at nothing

906
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:41,520
Speaker 1: to make sure that their kid is where they should

907
00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:43,840
Speaker 1: be so that we can send them out into the

908
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:47,880
Speaker 1: world and be healthy, beautiful human beings. You know that's

909
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 1: our only goal. Oh I'm sorry.

910
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 6: No, absolutely, no apology. You know it is. And you know,

911
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:02,080
Speaker 6: going back to you saying that I'm strong, I'll tell

912
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:04,600
Speaker 6: you if you would have told me that ten years ago,

913
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:09,120
Speaker 6: I didn't feel strong. I truly was in survival mode.

914
00:56:10,239 --> 00:56:15,360
Speaker 6: Had I not journaled and blogged back then about my experience.

915
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:20,239
Speaker 6: It would be a complete you know, I've shot it out,

916
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:22,840
Speaker 6: Like I go back and read things that I wrote

917
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:27,360
Speaker 6: in these moments. Yeah, in the beginning, and I'm like,

918
00:56:27,719 --> 00:56:33,080
Speaker 6: oh my god. And I didn't feel strong. I felt

919
00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:37,200
Speaker 6: like I have been on my floor bawling in fetal

920
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:43,320
Speaker 6: position more times than you know. And I remember leaving

921
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:47,480
Speaker 6: the courtroom so many times. And by that point my

922
00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:51,239
Speaker 6: story had been discovered and people were following, and I

923
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:55,480
Speaker 6: remember feeling like a fraud because people were sending me

924
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:58,920
Speaker 6: messages saying, You're so strong, you know, you're a warrior,

925
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:02,920
Speaker 6: and I like, I just had a full blown panic

926
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 6: attack in the bathroom of the courthouse and then I

927
00:57:06,719 --> 00:57:09,200
Speaker 6: just cried for an hour fetal position in the back

928
00:57:09,239 --> 00:57:11,839
Speaker 6: of my car. I don't feel strong and I don't

929
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:12,880
Speaker 6: feel like a warrior.

930
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:15,560
Speaker 1: Can you look back now and say I was a

931
00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:16,320
Speaker 1: strong bitch?

932
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:20,240
Speaker 6: Absolutely sorry. I thought I was a strong bitch and

933
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:25,840
Speaker 6: absolutely one person. Yeah, and I and you know, my

934
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:29,960
Speaker 6: kids when we were driving back from San Francisco this weekend,

935
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:34,320
Speaker 6: and you know, his name will come up every once

936
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:37,240
Speaker 6: in a while, and you know, I'm always open to

937
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:41,040
Speaker 6: talking with them at their age level on the reality

938
00:57:41,080 --> 00:57:44,920
Speaker 6: of what they lived through and experienced. And my daughter

939
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 6: shared a memory that felt really fuzzy to me at

940
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:51,480
Speaker 6: the time, but it was when they were probably three

941
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:55,360
Speaker 6: and five, and it was Fourth of July weekend, and

942
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:58,840
Speaker 6: I was so terrified putting them in the car that weekend.

943
00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:01,920
Speaker 6: And I just I knew when he was in a

944
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:04,720
Speaker 6: good place and when he wasn't, and when he was

945
00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:08,200
Speaker 6: really unstable, and it terrified me. But your your hands

946
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:11,640
Speaker 6: are tied by a broken court system that's forcing you

947
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 6: to put your little girls in this car. And my

948
00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:20,400
Speaker 6: daughter recounted the story where I said to her, Mom's

949
00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:23,800
Speaker 6: always with you. And when you see the pink fireworks

950
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:28,760
Speaker 6: tonight fourth of July, every time you see a pink firework,

951
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:31,160
Speaker 6: know that Mommy loves you and Mommy's sending you a

952
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:35,120
Speaker 6: big hug. And that has been you know, she said,

953
00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:38,160
Speaker 6: like every time I see even like a pink fireworks

954
00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:41,440
Speaker 6: logo or something like that, like it always takes me

955
00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:47,920
Speaker 6: back to that, because you know, that's that connection that

956
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:52,280
Speaker 6: we had is unbreakable. You know, that bond that I

957
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:56,440
Speaker 6: authentically created with my kids, not because of show, not

958
00:58:56,600 --> 00:58:59,040
Speaker 6: because of a camera was on, not because of any

959
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:03,520
Speaker 6: of that. You know, that is their foundation and no

960
00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:06,800
Speaker 6: one can touch that, not the court system, not a

961
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:09,640
Speaker 6: narcissist that is unbreakable.

962
00:59:09,960 --> 00:59:13,920
Speaker 1: That is beautiful, And that was like the sweetest story.

963
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:16,680
Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing that. I Before I let you go,

964
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:22,200
Speaker 1: can you tell our listeners some things to look out

965
00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:24,880
Speaker 1: for when it comes to a narcissist. What should be

966
00:59:25,080 --> 00:59:27,480
Speaker 1: things that they see and know that they need to

967
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:28,040
Speaker 1: run away?

968
00:59:28,120 --> 00:59:30,520
Speaker 6: Oh, you know, there's so many.

969
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:33,080
Speaker 1: Different it's a loaded question, not loaded, so.

970
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:36,400
Speaker 6: Many different types. I highly encourage people to follow doctor

971
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:40,400
Speaker 6: Romany's work because she really.

972
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:45,080
Speaker 1: That's how I follow. Oh, that's the doctor I find.

973
00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:50,600
Speaker 6: Yeah, she is the most knowledgeable psychologist on this topic.

974
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:53,680
Speaker 6: And you know there are so many different types. You know,

975
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:57,479
Speaker 6: she talks about the communal narcissist who is the good

976
00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:00,520
Speaker 6: deed doer and you know, maybe run and around in

977
01:00:00,560 --> 01:00:04,920
Speaker 6: birkenstocks and you know, feeding the homeless on Saturdays, and

978
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:10,440
Speaker 6: they're going to present different from a you know, very malignant,

979
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:14,600
Speaker 6: you know, loud, boisterous, over the top person. Those are

980
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:17,040
Speaker 6: the ones that are easy to spot in bars, or

981
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:21,440
Speaker 6: in restaurants or what wherever. It's paying attention to your intuition.

982
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:25,840
Speaker 6: I'll tell you I had zero attraction to my ex husband,

983
01:00:26,520 --> 01:00:32,320
Speaker 6: and there was something almost repulsive about thinking about kissing him.

984
01:00:33,240 --> 01:00:36,440
Speaker 6: And I kept thinking, but he's so nice and I'm

985
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:40,880
Speaker 6: being superficial and all that. My gut was telling me

986
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:42,880
Speaker 6: to get the fuck out, like.

987
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:45,440
Speaker 1: I, Oh my god, I shut up.

988
01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:48,600
Speaker 6: I love it, but I will say, your gut, get

989
01:00:48,680 --> 01:00:51,880
Speaker 6: to a quiet place. And one of the biggest tests.

990
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:55,080
Speaker 6: Put up a boundary. If you say, you know what

991
01:00:55,320 --> 01:00:59,840
Speaker 6: I'm needing, just a week to myself where I'm going

992
01:00:59,920 --> 01:01:03,520
Speaker 6: to just shut down and be alone. See how they

993
01:01:03,560 --> 01:01:06,440
Speaker 6: react to that. My guess is you're gonna get flowers,

994
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:12,120
Speaker 6: you're gonna get poetry, you're gonna get whatever delivered. But no,

995
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:17,200
Speaker 6: like boundaries, a narcissist can't handle boundaries. And that's a

996
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:20,880
Speaker 6: good test. You know, whatever your boundary is, put it

997
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:24,120
Speaker 6: up and see how they react. But again, words and

998
01:01:24,640 --> 01:01:27,960
Speaker 6: if words and actions are not in alignment, you know,

999
01:01:28,040 --> 01:01:31,800
Speaker 6: that's a lot of time where you see the mask slip.

1000
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:33,560
Speaker 1: And be aware of it.

1001
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:37,520
Speaker 6: Be aware of it absolutely. How they talk to other

1002
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:39,960
Speaker 6: people in public, how they talk to people who they

1003
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:42,880
Speaker 6: feel are beneath them, how they put yeah down.

1004
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:45,160
Speaker 1: I love that you said that.

1005
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:46,400
Speaker 6: All of those things.

1006
01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:49,040
Speaker 1: Wow, it has been such a pleasure, Tina to have

1007
01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:52,000
Speaker 1: you on this podcast. This has to be one of

1008
01:01:52,040 --> 01:01:54,360
Speaker 1: my most favorite episodes that we've done so far. You

1009
01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:58,280
Speaker 1: are in absolute joy to talk to and so full

1010
01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:01,240
Speaker 1: of information that's so value in this day and age.

1011
01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:02,560
Speaker 1: So we appreciate you.

1012
01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:04,160
Speaker 6: I am honored to be here.

1013
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:06,680
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, of course, and we will keep

1014
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:07,760
Speaker 1: in touch absolutely