1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:16,239 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Well, it just won't go away. 2 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: I'm talking about heard versus dep Depp versus heard. It's 3 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: all happening right now in a Fairfax, Virginia courtroom. The 4 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 1: jury is going into our ten of deliberations. Did Aquaman 5 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 1: Star Amber heard defame Pirates of the Caribbean Captain Jack Sparrow, 6 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 1: Johnny Depp? And likewise, a lot's happening. There's never a 7 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,519 Speaker 1: dull moment in this trial. I'm Nancy Grace, this is 8 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:46,879 Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at 9 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:51,840 Speaker 1: Fox Nation and Series one eleven. Well, apparently Johnny Depp 10 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: is not that worried. Take a listen to our cup 11 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:59,279 Speaker 1: forty three from the Today Show. Johnny Depp sporting new 12 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: Blunde low headed overseas this weekend. The seemingly unfazed film 13 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: star seen performing several songs in England alongside legendary rock 14 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 1: gutarist and friend Jeff Back. Closing arguments in the trial 15 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:14,040 Speaker 1: were contentious, and there's a victim of domestic abuse in 16 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:17,679 Speaker 1: this courtroom, but it is not misheard Johnny Depp's team 17 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: painting his ex wife as an abusive manipulator who wanted 18 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 1: to destroy their client's reputation. He just hit me over 19 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 1: and over and over again. Herd's team presenting their evidence 20 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:31,120 Speaker 1: to support her allegations of abuse, including an array of 21 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: photos of her face bruised and swollen after she says 22 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:37,839 Speaker 1: Depp attactor text. They say, document the incidents and witnesses 23 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:40,959 Speaker 1: who testified they saw Depth become violent, as well as 24 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 1: Herd's injuries in the aftermath. If Amber was abused by 25 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: mister Depp even one time, then she wins. Depp brought 26 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: the fifty million dollar defamation suit against Heard after she 27 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 1: wrote a twenty eighteen Washington Post op ed where she 28 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: described herself as a public figure representing domestic abuse, not 29 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 1: fast under the black and white letter of the law. Yes, 30 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 1: if Depth ever hit Heard, she wins. But they forgot 31 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: this part. The jury has to be convinced. Sometimes one 32 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: party can turn out to be so distasteful, so dislikable, 33 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: the credibility is shot. You know. Let me go out 34 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 1: to Charlie links and joining me from dalimail dot com. 35 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 1: She is the editor of Female Charlie. I actually had 36 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: someone approached me and ask me, either Blue this was 37 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 1: at target. Do you think Amber Heard faked her bruises. 38 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: That's not a good omen. You know, I have investigated 39 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 1: and prosecuted hundreds, literally hundreds of domestic violence, domestic sex assault, 40 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:55,679 Speaker 1: domestic homicide cases. I've never had anyone ask me did 41 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: she paint on or fake her bruises? That's not good 42 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: for her. It's really not good for her. And I 43 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: think first and foremost, you know, in the court of 44 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: public opinion, I don't want to say that there's a winner, 45 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: because I think that this whole trial has been such 46 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 1: an insane circus that no one really wins. But I 47 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 1: think that in the court of public opinion, Johnny is 48 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:21,079 Speaker 1: certainly ahead of Amber, and I think that he has 49 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:25,360 Speaker 1: come across in some strange way as being much more likable. 50 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:29,639 Speaker 1: And I don't know how the jury could not feel 51 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: the same way. In some small way. Amber really just 52 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: has not come across as a likable human being. And 53 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: when you're dealing with a court case that has had 54 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 1: so many insane claims, so many horrific allegations of different 55 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: kinds of abuse, I don't know how that doesn't play 56 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: at least a small part in their deliberations. Speaking of 57 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: losing credibility, and again I'm not on herd side. I'm 58 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 1: not on depth side. I am on the side of 59 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: a true very whatever that verdict may be as to 60 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: losing credibility, take a listen to our cut forty six. 61 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: This is the dep lawyer during closing arguments. He owns 62 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 1: his flaws, he admits to them, he told you all 63 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: about them. But he is not a violent abuser. He's 64 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:25,720 Speaker 1: not abuser as Misheard claims, and he did not and 65 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: does not deserve to have his life his legacy destroyed. 66 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 1: There is a world of difference between having substance abuse 67 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 1: problems and being a physical abuser. Amber Heard is not 68 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 1: a true victim, and mister Depp certainly is not an abuser. 69 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 1: This case, for mister Devil has never been about money. 70 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: It is about mister Depp's reputation. You know, with me 71 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: a former prosecutor now a veteran civil attorney joining me 72 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: from Atlanta jurisdiction, Daryl Cohen, it's very possible that the 73 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 1: jury may find amber Heard to be a liar. And 74 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: the judge accurately gave the jury instruction that if you 75 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: disbelieve a witness in part, you are then authorized to 76 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: discard all of their testimony. If they disbelieved her about 77 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: one thing like tipping off TMZ the thirty mile zone 78 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: TMZ to come and catch her at the courthouse filing 79 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: a t r O against step and then turning a 80 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: certain way to catch the bruise on her face, which 81 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:40,600 Speaker 1: she denied tipping them off. If they find she even 82 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 1: led about that, they are authorized to throw out all 83 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 1: of her testimony. Well, Nancy, of course they can. If 84 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:51,840 Speaker 1: they don't like her for whatever the reason, they can 85 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: ignore her testimony. If they don't like him for whatever 86 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,720 Speaker 1: the reason, they can throw out his testimony and say, 87 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, Hollywood here in Virginia, this is just terrific, 88 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 1: because we are going to find against both of them, 89 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:10,480 Speaker 1: or for both of them, or find for them and 90 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 1: give them a dollar each. Any of these things are possible. 91 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: I was thinking that same thing about one dollar each. Yeah, 92 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 1: this is soap opera, and both of them and my view, 93 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:23,720 Speaker 1: deserve each other. And I agree that in the court 94 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: of public opinion, Johnny Depp is ahead. Does that mean 95 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,799 Speaker 1: he's going to win or lose? No, it's one more 96 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 1: strike against Amber or for him. But there have been 97 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:39,279 Speaker 1: so many witnesses on both sides that have been that 98 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: are so credible that it's really going to be fun 99 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: for the Jarars. And you weren't know if they would 100 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:46,719 Speaker 1: call it fun, but go ahead. Yeah, well, I think 101 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:48,159 Speaker 1: one or more of the the Jars are going to write 102 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: a book. I think they're gonna have a blast and 103 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:52,719 Speaker 1: they're going to have a tough time back there. They've 104 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: been there for what ten hours now, and they're continuing 105 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: to liberate. This is going to be a very interesting verdict. 106 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 1: I would be surprised at nothing. At nothing. Doctor Charles 107 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: Heller joining me clinical forensic psychologists specializing in domestic violence. 108 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 1: He's the chief forensic consultant Rockland County in New York 109 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 1: and works with Rutger's Biomedical and Health Sciences. Thank you 110 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 1: for being with us. Boy, do we need to shrink, 111 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: doctor Heller. Here's the thing. I hate for oj Simpson 112 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: to rear his ugly head right now. But that said, 113 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: isn't it true? It seems as if the jury loved 114 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 1: Johnny Cochrane and hated Marsha Clark. Yeah, that's true. I'm 115 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: not necessarily agreeing with that. Although Johnny Cochrane was my 116 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: sparring partner at Court TV. It can boil down to 117 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: like and dislike. You know, when you like somebody, doctor Heller, 118 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 1: you tend to believe what they say. When you don't 119 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:02,119 Speaker 1: like somebody, everything they say like dirt in their mouth. 120 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: That's very true. And Amber heard is a person who 121 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 1: a lot of people are disliking at this point. Why 122 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: what is it about her that is spark dislike well? 123 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 1: I think it's her affect in the courtroom. What do 124 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: you mean by that? You got to be more specific. 125 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: Dummy down, doctor dummy down for me. Most of the 126 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 1: time she has a kind of a flat affect. She 127 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: doesn't show much emotion and people can only guess what's 128 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 1: going on inside of her. The other part about this 129 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 1: is that at other times she becomes very emotional and 130 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: almost angry, just trying to figure out what it is 131 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: about her that has engendered so much dislike. Well, there 132 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 1: was a big, big development in the courtroom. Charlie Langston. 133 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut fifty six. This is 134 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: the judge Letten know what happened? I mean, just read 135 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: into the record the question. It's basically in regards to 136 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 1: number C, items one in three and numbers C is 137 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 1: a jury instruction on the finding instruction for the online 138 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: article title. The question is does question number three the 139 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: statement is false, pertain to the headline I spoke up 140 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 1: against sexual violence and faced our culture's wrath or does 141 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: it pertain to the content of the statement everything written 142 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:26,959 Speaker 1: in the outped. So I think the confusion came in 143 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: this particular one because the statement in question is the 144 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 1: title of the OpEd. So I think they're just confused 145 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 1: as whether it's the whole OpEd or just the title 146 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 1: is the statement, And it's clear that the title is 147 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 1: the statement. So I was going to answer to say, 148 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 1: the title is the statement in question for number three? 149 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: Is that seem appropriate to everybody? So this is how 150 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 1: it goes down. When the jury has a question, they 151 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: usually get the four person to write the question now 152 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 1: or somebody writes. They give it to the bail off. 153 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 1: The bail off then prisses it on, typically to the clerk. 154 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: The clerk then gives it to the judge. The judge 155 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:07,959 Speaker 1: calls all the lawyers, Oh, Darryl Cohen, didn't you hate 156 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:10,559 Speaker 1: getting jury questions? I mean the kylie or waiting a 157 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 1: crystal ball. You can kind of get an idea where 158 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:16,719 Speaker 1: the jury is going. But oh, Daryl, did I ever 159 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: tell you I listened at the air vent one time 160 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 1: to the one time and all my years prosecuting, because 161 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,959 Speaker 1: if you will remember Judge Alverson's courtroom, that one of 162 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:32,319 Speaker 1: the biggest court Luther Alison. Wasn't he an awesome judge anyway? 163 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 1: I was fortunate enough to be assigned to his courtroom 164 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: for several years and handled all the state's business for him. 165 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 1: He also, and you'll vouch for this, was the oldest 166 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:46,560 Speaker 1: judge in the courthouse. But that boomeranged in his mind. 167 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 1: He had to prove himself to the other judges, and 168 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 1: therefore he wanted to try more cases than any other 169 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: judge in the courthouse, which means the prosecutor assigned to 170 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 1: that courtroom has to be ready for trial every other 171 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 1: week to try all the cases Joe Jefferson wanted to try. 172 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: So I found out Daryl through happenstance. We were waiting 173 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 1: on a verdict, and I just I didn't want to 174 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 1: leave the courtroom, and I was just wandering around, and 175 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: I went and sat down in the jury box on 176 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: the back road, and right above me Daryl was e 177 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 1: vent and on the other side of that wall was 178 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:28,680 Speaker 1: the jury deliberation room and they were in there and 179 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:32,320 Speaker 1: they were fighting, like h E double l on what 180 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:35,200 Speaker 1: I thought was a clear cut case. I was so 181 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 1: I'm like, how could they be that torn up? It's 182 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 1: so clear what happened. I was so upset, I almost 183 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 1: I felt like I wanted to throw up. Daryl Well. 184 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:49,959 Speaker 1: Long story short, About thirty minutes later, the bill of 185 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 1: sauntered out of the jury deliberation room and I looked, 186 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: I'm like, what's happening in there? He went, They were 187 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:02,319 Speaker 1: just getting there drinking snack order. I never ever sat 188 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,959 Speaker 1: up in that jury bist during jury deliberations. Again. Those 189 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: thirty minutes cured me. And that's what my point is. 190 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: In a roundabout way, that's what a question is. Like, 191 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 1: you go, oh, my stars, does this mean they're leaning 192 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: for the defense or the prosecution in this case plan 193 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:25,440 Speaker 1: If a defendant, they had one question, they sent it 194 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: out and there have been endless articles about this one question. Darrel. 195 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 1: The question is, hey, Charlie, you deliver the question. You 196 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: can do it better than I can. Go ahead, Charlie 197 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:39,719 Speaker 1: lanks Well. The question effectively is whether or not they 198 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 1: should be considering the entire op ed as being defamatory 199 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 1: because the online version of Amberhard's OpEd had a headline 200 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:54,079 Speaker 1: on it that was also included in the OpEd. So 201 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:56,680 Speaker 1: what the jury has actually been asked to do is 202 00:12:56,679 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: to consider two specific passages from the op ed and 203 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 1: the headline. That's all they are supposed to be looking at. 204 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:08,319 Speaker 1: That's what they're supposed to be determining as to whether 205 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 1: or not Johnny Depp was defamed. But because this statement 206 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 1: was included in the OpEd, they were confused as to 207 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: whether they should be looking at the thing in its entirety, 208 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: rather than focusing on two passages and the headline. Charlie 209 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: I wrote down the three passages. Three passages. They've gotten 210 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 1: a questionnaire the gurrs of forty two questions, and they 211 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 1: deal with three passages in the op ed. Amber Heard 212 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 1: wrote for The Washington Post. The first passage is just 213 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:42,440 Speaker 1: the headline, which states I spoke up against sexual violence 214 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 1: and face our culture's wrath. This has to change. Was 215 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 1: that a lie? Did it defame Johnny Depp? Second one? 216 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 1: Then two years ago I became a public figure representing 217 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 1: domestic abuse, and I felt the full force of our 218 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 1: culture's wrath for women who speak out. That was a 219 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:02,719 Speaker 1: second statement that they are to consider. Third statement, I 220 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 1: had the vantage point of seeing in real time how 221 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: institutions protect men accused of abuse. That's the third statement, 222 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 1: each one asserting that she is a domestic violence or 223 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 1: sex abuse victim. Okay, are they false? And did it 224 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 1: defame depth? And did he lose money or roles? So 225 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 1: the first question, I see what you're saying, Charlie Lankston. 226 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: The jury saw the title and it says, is this 227 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 1: defamatory and elicit title? So the jury thought, does she 228 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 1: mean the title just those two sentences or does she 229 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 1: mean the article that goes with that title? So the 230 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 1: judge advised them, Charlie Lankston what the judge advised them? 231 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 1: That know, it is specifically the headline that they are 232 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 1: supposed to be looking at. And then those two other, 233 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 1: as you pointed out, sentences within the optical exactly. So Darrell, 234 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 1: coming back to jury questions, hate them, will love them? You? 235 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 1: I hated them because it would just get me all 236 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 1: churned up about what did the question mean? And I 237 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: would try to decipher it. Did you do that? Nancy? 238 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: I always learned, just as you did, the juries were 239 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 1: predictably unpredictable. They would come up with the question that 240 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: had nothing to do with the trial, had nothing to 241 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: do with who testified and how they testified, nothing to 242 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: do with the evidence. And they come up with this 243 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 1: question and scrab your head and said, are you really 244 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: kidding me? Are you serious? Where's this coming from? But 245 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: ultimately they all seemed to get together and figure it 246 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: out whichever way they decide to figure it. You're exactly correct, 247 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: you know, somehow from all these sorts of walks of life, 248 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 1: they get it right most of the time. I'll never 249 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 1: forget a couple of years ago, I went to the 250 00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 1: dentist and he was right in the middle of doing 251 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: something of my teeth and goes, you know, as I 252 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 1: want to hear Juris. I'm like, I couldn't say anything. 253 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: But then I started thinking about him, and I actually 254 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 1: remembered which case he was on. It was a bank 255 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: robbery case where I had a dyslexic bank robber. The 256 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 1: note said, don't touch the al ram, this is a robie. 257 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: That's a whole nother can of worms. Joe Scott Morgan, 258 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: what do you think about somebody come to People actually 259 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 1: have asked me this, But yesterday the most recent was 260 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: in Target, and I got asked, do you think Amber 261 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 1: heard faked her bruises? That ain't good for her? No, 262 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: it's not. And one of the things that I've been 263 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: kind of contemplated, and it was a woman. Yeah, one thing. 264 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 1: What kind of what kind of evidence do you have 265 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: of this? And when I say have of this, this 266 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 1: is a continuing narrative. You know, you go all the 267 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 1: way back many years ago. Uh you know in this 268 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: whole timeline where she's talking about Oh man, I love 269 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 1: it when you start the sentence with when you say 270 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:04,399 Speaker 1: you go back many years ago. Okay, get comfortable, start 271 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 1: smores over there, because this is a campfire story, Jackie. 272 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 1: All right, let me get my other hot tea. Oh 273 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 1: and I realized I'm using my pirate cup that has 274 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 1: nothing to do but when Johnny Depp. This is one 275 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:18,880 Speaker 1: of my favorite cups because the twins and I went 276 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: to the Pirate Museum, okay, and they got me this 277 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 1: nothing to do with Depp. Okay, although it's Captain Jack Sparrott. No, 278 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,359 Speaker 1: he's not on here. Okay, go ahead, go ahead, I'm comfy. 279 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:31,119 Speaker 1: Let me get my eyepatch in place. Yeah, I was 280 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: I was thinking you know, going back those years where 281 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 1: she claimed that he had taken this cell phone and 282 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 1: through it, and the verbiage of the scene, you know, 283 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:44,919 Speaker 1: kind of the way it was phrased was interesting to me, 284 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:49,439 Speaker 1: like a very high velocity or something like this, and 285 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 1: it struck her face, and you can kind of see 286 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 1: this linear design, this impact point of impact that's left 287 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 1: behind on the right ass I think it was the 288 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 1: right aspect of her face, trying to say her right 289 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 1: cheek of her face, well, and not really her right cheek, 290 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:07,120 Speaker 1: but it goes up into the forehead area as well. 291 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:09,919 Speaker 1: And it almost looked when I saw that, when I 292 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,440 Speaker 1: looked at it through you know, kind of my forensic eyes, 293 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:16,360 Speaker 1: it looked a bit contrived to me, that image alone, 294 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 1: And you know, I think that there's a number of 295 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 1: these injuries that kind that injury look contrived because if 296 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 1: it's a linear injury, as if this side of a 297 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 1: cell phone had struck her, I would think that that's 298 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:34,639 Speaker 1: too sophisticated to fake. I mean, if you're going to 299 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 1: put on a bruise, why would you do it in 300 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 1: a linear style? Yeah, well, precisely for that so it 301 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:43,359 Speaker 1: would match the pattern that is supposedly left behind by 302 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: the cell The cell phone would have to strike like perfectly. Yeah, 303 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 1: well it would have to strike perfectly to leave that behind. 304 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:52,359 Speaker 1: I see what you're saying. There was also other injury 305 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:56,639 Speaker 1: within the orbit of the eye, Nancy. That didn't you 306 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: think that that's blocking it? You know that it didn't 307 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:01,879 Speaker 1: get deep in there. Instead, they've got this whole area 308 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: that's essentially involved. And there's other evidence that this is absent, 309 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:10,439 Speaker 1: that there's associated hemorrhage where you would expect it to be. 310 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:14,200 Speaker 1: That's absent. One other thing to this point, relative to 311 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:16,640 Speaker 1: just the cell phone incident alone. We're not even talking 312 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 1: about severed fingers and all this other stuff. You know, 313 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: when LAPD showed up there, you know what they said, 314 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 1: They said, we didn't see any evidence of injury on 315 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:29,120 Speaker 1: this person, on Amber her when she you know, when 316 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 1: they were called to the scene. But suddenly this kind 317 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,920 Speaker 1: of appears. And as you know, and as I know, 318 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:39,120 Speaker 1: when someone is struck, when someone is struck, that's swelling, 319 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 1: that redness, that inflammation begins to show up within about 320 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: thirty minutes. You can appreciate it, and we can all 321 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 1: imagine what a response time on this thing was. It 322 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:50,440 Speaker 1: probably took a good thirty to forty five minutes. They're 323 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 1: standing there, they're talking to her, they're interviewing her, and 324 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 1: it's not presenting, so that and then it's afterwards that 325 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,879 Speaker 1: these photos appear. It's just it's interesting to me as 326 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: an investigation now that the occasia and Joe Scott Morgan 327 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: where she filed the t r O and had TMZ 328 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 1: ca w it's dalling show up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and 329 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,160 Speaker 1: the furtough I was looking at was actually from TMZ Oh. Gosh, yes, 330 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 1: that would be the one. Guys. Take a listen to 331 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:20,400 Speaker 1: the Depp lawyer of Esquis as she addresses what Joe 332 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:25,679 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan has just described. Exactly six years ago today, 333 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 1: on May twenty seventh, twenty sixteen, Misheard walked into court 334 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: and filed a false report of domestic abuse against her 335 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: husband of fifteen months, Johnny Depp. The scene was a setup. 336 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 1: She tipped off the paparazzi so they would be waiting. 337 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 1: They knew exactly where she would pause, which side of 338 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 1: her face to photograph, and the photos captured what she 339 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: wanted them to see, the image of a battered woman. 340 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:58,160 Speaker 1: What the paparazzi did not know is that the dark 341 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 1: mark on her face mysterious appeared six days after last 342 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:06,119 Speaker 1: seeing mister Depth. It was a lie. She knew it. 343 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 1: Mister Depp knew it, and the multiple witnesses you heard 344 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 1: from who saw her that week of May twenty first, 345 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:17,680 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen also knew it. But the world always saw 346 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 1: what she wanted them to see. Time Stories with Nancy 347 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 1: Grace Charlie links to in joining me from dailymail dot com. 348 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: She is the editor of Semail FAMAI l Charlie again, 349 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:42,239 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Has anyone commented on 350 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:46,119 Speaker 1: jury reaction during the trial, You know, I think the 351 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 1: focus has been so much on Johnny's behavior and the 352 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:58,360 Speaker 1: behavior that we haven't actually focused that much on jury reaction. However, 353 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 1: this whole high thing has almost been like an episode 354 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,919 Speaker 1: of a TV show, where You've had people kind of 355 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:09,400 Speaker 1: sitting behind Johnny and Amber actually like opening their mouths 356 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:14,159 Speaker 1: in shock, looking absolutely stunned at the different things that 357 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,240 Speaker 1: people have said. You've had Johnny Depp and his lawyers 358 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: fist bumping when Amber heard mentions Kate Moss during her testimony. 359 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: This has, by no means been a court case that 360 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 1: has been as serious and as kind of somber as 361 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 1: you might expect from a case discussing potential domestic abuse. 362 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:38,200 Speaker 1: And while I think that the jury has tried very 363 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:41,640 Speaker 1: much to stay as straight faced as they possibly can, 364 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 1: we've definitely seen a couple of flinches here and there. 365 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 1: We've seen a couple of rais eyebrows here and there, 366 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: and I think that that just speaks to the absolute 367 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:55,840 Speaker 1: sensationalism that has come out of this trial as a whole. 368 00:22:56,160 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 1: You know, again, the lying in part on anything can 369 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:06,640 Speaker 1: authorize a jury to throw out that witness's entire testimony. 370 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:11,159 Speaker 1: And that is something I loved hammering home to jurars. 371 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 1: If I caught the defense witness, any defense witness in 372 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 1: a lie, I would argue to the jury that their 373 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:24,680 Speaker 1: entire testimony could be discarded. And here is a simple one. 374 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: Darryl Cohen, a veteran trial lawyer. I don't know if 375 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: you remember this witness. His name was Morgan Tremaine and 376 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,159 Speaker 1: he worked for TMZ with our friend Harvey love him. 377 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,879 Speaker 1: He was a field assignment manager with TMZ and his 378 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 1: job was to send out photographers to show up like 379 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 1: when a seleb gets off a plane at LAX. You know, 380 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,159 Speaker 1: and catch them without their makeup and chase along behind 381 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:52,680 Speaker 1: them and ask them very personal questions. But according to him, 382 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:57,440 Speaker 1: it was Amber Heard that her team that tipped off 383 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: TMZ to be at the court house at a certain 384 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,679 Speaker 1: time and at a certain moment, Heard would turn a 385 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:10,880 Speaker 1: certain direction so TMZ could get the photo of her bruise, 386 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 1: her alleged bruise. As a matter of fact, that's exactly 387 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 1: what happened, and TMZ got the scoop and announced at 388 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:22,640 Speaker 1: first that HERD was getting a t R. HERD denied 389 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:26,119 Speaker 1: the tip off. Now that's a small thing in the 390 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 1: big scheme of this trial. We're talking about one hundred 391 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 1: and fifty million dollar cross countersuit defamation case. But if 392 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 1: she tipped them off, as Tremaine said she did, that 393 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:44,920 Speaker 1: little thing is a lie, Daryl. Little things mean a lot. 394 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,719 Speaker 1: It sounds as if no big deal. I'm just going 395 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,919 Speaker 1: to call it to EMZ, But it means everything because 396 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: when you get caught in one lie, then jurars and 397 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen and other people say, well, what else did 398 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,399 Speaker 1: you lie about? Did you tell the truth? Ever? Is 399 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,359 Speaker 1: this just one streak, one part of your streak of lives? 400 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: So it makes a difference. It makes a difference as 401 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 1: to how a jury perceives your testimony. Not necessarily have 402 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:16,119 Speaker 1: they perceived the testimony of witnesses other than you, but 403 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 1: they look at you in a different way because Nancy, 404 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 1: we all know you have one chance to make a 405 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,640 Speaker 1: first impression, and that's what happens in the courtroom, and 406 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 1: that very first impression is what jurars go on and 407 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:34,920 Speaker 1: lesson until their minds are changed so that one little 408 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 1: did she really tip them off? Did she lie? Makes 409 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 1: a major difference or could now In the case, he 410 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 1: didn't come out and say am or her herself made 411 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:47,439 Speaker 1: the call, but Tremaine made it very clear that it 412 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 1: was just moments before she was going to the courthouse, 413 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:53,359 Speaker 1: and who else would have known beside her and whoever 414 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 1: was driving her to Charlie Langston. There was the other 415 00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:02,399 Speaker 1: issue that saw over and over and over that Amber 416 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 1: heard was videoing. Are many Johnny Depp's bad moments when 417 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,160 Speaker 1: he would be drunk or passed out and ice cream 418 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,199 Speaker 1: melting down his lap because he was out of it, 419 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 1: or lines of cocaine on a desk that looked like 420 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 1: they were pre arranged. You know, I never think when 421 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:26,360 Speaker 1: I'm having an argument with my husband to video him, 422 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: that would be the most the artist thing. I mean, 423 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,360 Speaker 1: I agree with you, I think if it was me, 424 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 1: and I'm very fortunate and that I've never been in 425 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:40,120 Speaker 1: a situation where i have been the victim of somebody, 426 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 1: you know, violently behaving towards me. But when I've been 427 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 1: in arguments, when I've been in situations where I feel 428 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:51,160 Speaker 1: in danger, it is not my first thought to whip 429 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 1: out my cell phone and to start filming it. Nor 430 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:56,680 Speaker 1: is it my first thought to set up my cell 431 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,640 Speaker 1: phone to start filming. And I think the key thing 432 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 1: to member here is that Johnny Depp's alcohol and substance 433 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: abuse is not what's on trial here. He's admitted to 434 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 1: the fact that he has had problems with both alcohol 435 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:15,199 Speaker 1: and drugs. He's admitted that he has fallen off the 436 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 1: wagon a number of times over the years, and that yes, 437 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:23,439 Speaker 1: he behaved in an inappropriate way because of that. But 438 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 1: there is a difference between smashing cabinets in your kitchen 439 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: and touching someone in the face and raping somebody with 440 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,240 Speaker 1: a wine model exactly. There are Those are two very 441 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 1: different things. And I think that while Amber Heard's videos 442 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:43,440 Speaker 1: might have helped to create an image of Johnny Depp 443 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:47,919 Speaker 1: as a violent person. Actually, none of the video footage 444 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: shows any form of physical abuse towards her. Yes, they're scary, 445 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,720 Speaker 1: Yes they make him look like he has a very 446 00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 1: violent temper, But he's hitting it cabinet, He's not hitting hot. 447 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,359 Speaker 1: And I think that all of this video evidence that 448 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 1: she was showing was intended to kind of try and 449 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:12,320 Speaker 1: paint him in the specific light that she wanted him 450 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 1: to be shut Which leads me to the question doctor 451 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:19,640 Speaker 1: Charles Heller, doctor Heller or clinical forensics psychologists joining us 452 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 1: from New York, that if she caught all of these episodes, 453 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 1: many of these episodes on video of him beating a 454 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 1: cabinet or slamming a door, don't you believe she would 455 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 1: have tried to catch him on video as he beat her. 456 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 1: It sounds very contrived, actually, that all of these things 457 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 1: are on video. It sounds like she's somehow either wanted 458 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 1: to set him up or wanted to document for future 459 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 1: reference for a court trial. You just don't, You're right, 460 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 1: she just people that usually think about recording their spouses 461 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 1: in an argument. It's very unusual. Let's take a listen 462 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 1: to what Amber Heard's lawyer has to say back to 463 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: all of this, take a listen hour cut fifty then 464 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 1: mister Depp's world. You don't leave mister dept And if 465 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 1: you do, he will start a campaign of global humiliation 466 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 1: against you, a smear campaign that lasts this very day. 467 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 1: He will do everything he can to destroy your life, 468 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 1: to destroy your career. That is what they're saying, ladies 469 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 1: and gentlemen, and that's what they're trying to get you. 470 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 1: The jury to be an accomplice too. But it's not 471 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 1: surprising because mister Depp cannot and will not take responsibility 472 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 1: for his own actions. It's always someone else's fault. Does 473 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 1: the First Amendment give Misheard the right to write the 474 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 1: words that she wrote in this article on December eighteenth, 475 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: twenty eighteen. That's the question. And you cannot simultaneously protect 476 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 1: uphold the First Amendment and find in favor of Johnny 477 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 1: Depp on his claim. You simply cannot. Hmm. Okay, you're 478 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 1: hearing Amber Heard's lawyer or Benjamin Rottenborne. Take a listen 479 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 1: to one more thing he said in our cut fifty one. 480 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 1: If Amber was abused by mister Depp, even one time. 481 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:24,960 Speaker 1: Then she wins one time. And we're not just talking 482 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 1: about physical abuse. We're talking about emotional abuse, psychological abuse, 483 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 1: financial abuse, sexual abuse. That's what we're talking about. Let's 484 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 1: look at the evidence. You heard mister depth to find 485 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:44,479 Speaker 1: abuse from his own mouth. He admitted all of that 486 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 1: when he talked about his childhood. They're trying to trick 487 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,719 Speaker 1: you into thinking that Amber has to be perfect in 488 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,719 Speaker 1: order to win, even while they're ignoring Jay mister Depp's 489 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 1: many flaws. But don't fall for that trick. Amber's not perfect. 490 00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 1: None of us are. She's never pretended to be. And 491 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,120 Speaker 1: that's well. You're being asked to decide one time. Ladies 492 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:07,040 Speaker 1: are jelly one time if you abused her one time, 493 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 1: Amber wins. Okay to you, Daryl Cohen. Let's analyze what 494 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 1: we just heard. I'm hearing a lot of messages meshed together. 495 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:22,520 Speaker 1: One of those messages is that no witness is perfect. 496 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: That I agree with. I told you about one witness 497 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 1: that came in to the courtroom. It was a huge 498 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 1: arson case. The whole apartment complex was burned down, and 499 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 1: the witness, my best eyewitness, came in in the middle 500 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 1: of August one hundred degrees outside. She was wearing a 501 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 1: fake fur hat, and you could smell booze on this 502 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 1: lady when she walked in the door. I'm sure the 503 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,960 Speaker 1: jewelry could too. But she wasn't perfect, but she saw 504 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 1: what she saw. However, they're saying Amber, her doesn't have 505 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 1: to be perfect. I agree. A victim, of course, is 506 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 1: never going to be perfect. Victims are not usually none 507 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 1: and science and virgins. Okay, no they're not. But lying 508 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 1: about any facet of the trial is a whole another thing. 509 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:18,040 Speaker 1: Difference between me imperfect and lying. Nancy being imperfect is perfect. 510 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 1: None of us are perfect. As you pointed out, if 511 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,239 Speaker 1: she lied and if the jury believes she lied, and 512 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,040 Speaker 1: if she didn't lie, and the jury still believes she lied, 513 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 1: if they're looking for something to say, well, don't like you, Amber, 514 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 1: And as a result of that, we're going to find 515 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 1: in favor of Johnny Depp. They can do that. They 516 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 1: can pretty much do anything you want and couch it 517 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 1: in terms of the law. So how it was presented 518 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:48,120 Speaker 1: in that courtroom for the last five million weeks is 519 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 1: how the jury is going to issue a verdict. There 520 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,240 Speaker 1: will come to a verdict. I wouldn't be surprised again 521 00:32:55,720 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 1: dimensioning one dollar per each. I just don't know how 522 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 1: they feel since everybody was focused on Johnny and Amber 523 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 1: and the witnesses and not looking at the body language 524 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: of the jars, and Charlie mentioned a raised eyebrow here 525 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 1: and there. I think in the back of their minds. 526 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised if somebody's listening if there's not 527 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 1: a lot of laughter continually as they ultimately reach a verdict, 528 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 1: regardless of how it may come out. So what did 529 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,000 Speaker 1: Depth's lawyers have to say back when they shoot back 530 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 1: at herds lawyers in the courtroom. Take a listen to 531 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 1: Camille vesquiz and ar Cut forty nine. This is Depth's lawyer. 532 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:38,959 Speaker 1: When you catch misshard in a lie, she tries to 533 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 1: cover it up with more lies. So let's talk about 534 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:46,520 Speaker 1: the giant lie at the heart of this case, Mishurt's 535 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 1: claim that mister Depp is an abusive monster and that 536 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,560 Speaker 1: she is a public figure representing domestic abuse. She spound 537 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 1: a story of shocking, overwhelming, brutal abuse. She came into 538 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 1: this room prepared to give the performance of her life, 539 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 1: and she gave it. Mishurd. Mishurd's acting coach Christina Sexton 540 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:13,320 Speaker 1: testified that miss Hurd has difficulty crying when she is acting. 541 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 1: You saw it, Mishard sobbing without tears while spinning elaborate, exaggerated, 542 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:25,680 Speaker 1: fantastical accounts of abuse and everything going on in her 543 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:30,400 Speaker 1: mind almost a decade prior while enduring that abuse. It 544 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 1: was a performance, jess got Morgan, Professor of forensics. What 545 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,480 Speaker 1: do you make of that? Yeah, it goes to this, 546 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 1: you know, kind of you know what I'd mentioned earlier 547 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 1: relative to the injuries. Is this a piece of performance 548 00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 1: art that we're seeing here? This displayed you know, going 549 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,200 Speaker 1: back to doctor Heller's comment earlier relative to her affect 550 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,000 Speaker 1: in court, the term that came to mind for me 551 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:57,480 Speaker 1: was icy. You know, she just kind of sits there frozen, 552 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 1: and even when she was on the stand and I'm 553 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,279 Speaker 1: I'm trying to listen to her when she's talking about 554 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:09,160 Speaker 1: these things, it seemed contrived, those kind of crocodile tears, 555 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:11,480 Speaker 1: you know, that she's crying there on the stand. I 556 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:14,959 Speaker 1: didn't see anything that really endears me, and I really 557 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 1: wonder what the investigators thought about this, you know, going 558 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:21,520 Speaker 1: back to that earlier incident, were they standing there you know, thinking, 559 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,920 Speaker 1: you know, there's something that doesn't marry up here. Why 560 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 1: why why is she telling us the story and these 561 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,080 Speaker 1: injuries don't match up and this sort of thing. And 562 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:31,959 Speaker 1: I think that this goes to this kind of long, 563 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:35,760 Speaker 1: connective thread that runs through this entire event. And you're right, Nobody, 564 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,319 Speaker 1: nobody skirts or pure white here, Nancy. As we know, 565 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:43,279 Speaker 1: there's problems that are abounding here, I think, in this relationship. 566 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:47,000 Speaker 1: But you know, at the close of all of this, 567 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:50,359 Speaker 1: it's it's the point these points of truth, you know, 568 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:54,439 Speaker 1: have they actually proved that she has defamed him in 569 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 1: some way? And I gotta tell you start thrown around 570 00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,520 Speaker 1: these ideas that he's an abuser to this level. You 571 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:03,120 Speaker 1: and I have seen abuse, and it makes me cringe 572 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:06,719 Speaker 1: when I see people that put these images up. You 573 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:10,400 Speaker 1: know that may be questionable. When I think about aging 574 00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:14,960 Speaker 1: bruises on kids that have come through the morgue and 575 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,279 Speaker 1: trying to determine how long they've been being abused. I 576 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,359 Speaker 1: look at this and it just it makes me sick 577 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:21,640 Speaker 1: to my back teeth. You mean, it makes you sick 578 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:23,839 Speaker 1: to think that she may have doctored the bruises when 579 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:28,080 Speaker 1: real victims are suffering such heinous abuse. Yeah, and I've 580 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:32,040 Speaker 1: borne witness to to those those people that you know 581 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,520 Speaker 1: that have ended. You know, their lives have come to 582 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:38,759 Speaker 1: an end at the hands of true monsters that are 583 00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:42,400 Speaker 1: out there. And you know better than anybody, you know 584 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,479 Speaker 1: that our world is populated with these people. Right now. 585 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:48,640 Speaker 1: I'm not convinced. Of course, my opinion, you know, doesn't 586 00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:52,680 Speaker 1: mean anything, but it I'm not convinced of this. I 587 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:56,720 Speaker 1: don't see this as this monstrous event. Charlie Lanson, speaking 588 00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:01,960 Speaker 1: of lies, where did it settle? Whether the dost settle 589 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:07,520 Speaker 1: on claims that Amber Her testified in Great Britain she 590 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,880 Speaker 1: had forked over millions of dollars to charity, in fact, 591 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:16,399 Speaker 1: her whole divorce settlement from Depth and then it came 592 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:20,440 Speaker 1: out that that's not true, right, and this is unfortunately 593 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:25,440 Speaker 1: yet another lie that she's been seen as telling in court. 594 00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,240 Speaker 1: She said that she was going to give her entire 595 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:32,239 Speaker 1: seven million dollar divorce settlement to the ACLU and to 596 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,479 Speaker 1: the Children's Hospital of Los Angeles. That's three point five 597 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:40,279 Speaker 1: million dollars to each charity. Someone from the ACLU testified 598 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,600 Speaker 1: on behalf of Depth to say that actually, no, that 599 00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,600 Speaker 1: was not the case, she has thus far only given 600 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:50,799 Speaker 1: one point three million dollars of that money. Now that's 601 00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:57,280 Speaker 1: still a very large donation. However, using that claim saying 602 00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,759 Speaker 1: that you are a charitable slam to a piers who 603 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,200 Speaker 1: doesn't care about money and who's giving all of their 604 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:06,520 Speaker 1: money away to charities and causes that means something to them. 605 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:10,520 Speaker 1: To be caught out in that lie is just another, 606 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:14,480 Speaker 1: you know, kind of thing against her. We've had so 607 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:18,960 Speaker 1: many different potentially small some might consider them small, but 608 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:22,799 Speaker 1: potentially small things that have just cast more and more 609 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 1: doubt over everything that she said. And if we're talking 610 00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:30,799 Speaker 1: about one small lie being able to overthrow her entire testimony, 611 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,359 Speaker 1: well we've had more than one. We've had the ACLU lie, 612 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,160 Speaker 1: We've had the TMZ lie, and then on top of that, 613 00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:40,839 Speaker 1: we had the Cape Moss testimony. Three minutes of testimony 614 00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:45,000 Speaker 1: once again uncovered yet another lie that Amber Heard and 615 00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:48,360 Speaker 1: her team have given during this court case. Speaking of 616 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:54,440 Speaker 1: other girlfriends, I was very taken with Ellen Barkin's testimony, 617 00:38:54,760 --> 00:39:00,120 Speaker 1: painting depth is jealous and angry and controlling. But I 618 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:04,880 Speaker 1: don't recall Ellen Barton ever saying that Depp beat her. No, 619 00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,480 Speaker 1: absolutely not, And you know, once again. I think it 620 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:12,200 Speaker 1: all comes down to the questions that the jury needs 621 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:16,680 Speaker 1: to answer and whether or not Depth was controlling, angry 622 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:21,360 Speaker 1: had an aggressive temper. Those are not questions that the 623 00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:25,080 Speaker 1: jury is being asked. The fact of the matter is 624 00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:28,160 Speaker 1: what they need to determine is whether Amber is telling 625 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:32,520 Speaker 1: the truth about being physically abused by Depth, and whether 626 00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:35,680 Speaker 1: she was telling the truth when she wrote that Washington 627 00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:39,440 Speaker 1: Post op ed. If they determined that she did not 628 00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:42,719 Speaker 1: suffer physical abuse at the hands of Depth, and that 629 00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:46,000 Speaker 1: she claimed she did in this op ed and thereby 630 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:49,319 Speaker 1: defamed him, then he wins. I think the fact of 631 00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,759 Speaker 1: the matter is this court case has brought up more 632 00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:57,759 Speaker 1: than one very troubling incident that occurred during their relationship 633 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:03,520 Speaker 1: from both parties, but that has not really been any 634 00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:09,280 Speaker 1: clear cut evidence that Ambahad was physically abused by Johnny 635 00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:13,160 Speaker 1: tapp Oh. I disagree, go ahead, I completely disagree. I 636 00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:16,600 Speaker 1: think whether or not you believe the evidence, that's another story. 637 00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:20,600 Speaker 1: But as we all know, there's physical evidence, there's verbal evidence, 638 00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:25,520 Speaker 1: and Amber testified how she was abused. Now, whether the 639 00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,480 Speaker 1: jury chooses to believe it or disbelieve it, or say 640 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:32,520 Speaker 1: she's a liar, that's another story. But clearly the evidence 641 00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,759 Speaker 1: was there saying that she was abused period. Well, I 642 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:37,920 Speaker 1: think there was evidence, but I think that much of 643 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:41,560 Speaker 1: it suffered when there were attempts to disprove it. As 644 00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:43,160 Speaker 1: a matter of fact, take a list to our cut 645 00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:47,360 Speaker 1: fifty five Steve Patterson DApp's team saying that Hurd is 646 00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:53,040 Speaker 1: this vendictive, mentally unstable, essentially a liar that lied about 647 00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:58,080 Speaker 1: being abused, that wrote that outed as a malicious, defamatory statement, 648 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:02,560 Speaker 1: meant to destroy any depth. She did it by again 649 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:06,799 Speaker 1: taking people on a ride throughout their relationship, saying that 650 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,839 Speaker 1: these key points of abuse where she was injured, she 651 00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:12,799 Speaker 1: wasn't actually injured. And they do that by bringing up 652 00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:16,520 Speaker 1: what they would consider photo evidence of her at a banquet, 653 00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,600 Speaker 1: her at a red carpet, her on a late night 654 00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:23,080 Speaker 1: talk show where she's alleging that there were instances of abuse, 655 00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,640 Speaker 1: then showing those pictures or video clips and saying there's 656 00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:29,440 Speaker 1: no blemish, share, there's no mark here, there's no busted 657 00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,319 Speaker 1: lip where you said there were all these injuries, and 658 00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:35,600 Speaker 1: then even pointing to photos that she did submit and 659 00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,600 Speaker 1: saying that these are doctored, these aren't real. There isn't 660 00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:42,320 Speaker 1: really a mark there casting that sort of doubt on her. Okay, 661 00:41:42,360 --> 00:42:03,200 Speaker 1: the jury is at it time stories with Nancy Grace. Well, 662 00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:06,400 Speaker 1: the verdict is in and it was not a very 663 00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:10,880 Speaker 1: long verdict. Watch was it. Many people thought the jury 664 00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:15,000 Speaker 1: may be out till tomorrow, may come back late late 665 00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:20,960 Speaker 1: this afternoon. Not true. This jury had their minds made up. 666 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,840 Speaker 1: I have seen jurars deliberate for days and days and days, 667 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:27,360 Speaker 1: so you think they're never going to come back with 668 00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,560 Speaker 1: a verdict and when they do, it will probably be 669 00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:33,160 Speaker 1: a hung jury. No, this jury turned it around in 670 00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:38,280 Speaker 1: a matter of hours. Long story short. Johnny Depp wins 671 00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:44,240 Speaker 1: the block buster case against his ex wife Amber Heard 672 00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:47,360 Speaker 1: you know her from Aquaman, the jury ruling that she 673 00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:53,480 Speaker 1: defamed him with claims of physical and sex violence. Now 674 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:58,720 Speaker 1: hold on, it ain't over yet. The jury also found 675 00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:02,719 Speaker 1: for her in a lesser way. The jury said that 676 00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:08,200 Speaker 1: Johnny Depp's lawyer made a defamatory statement about Amber Heard 677 00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:12,520 Speaker 1: and awarded her a couple of million dollars as well. 678 00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:17,799 Speaker 1: So long story short regarding the money, Johnny Depp is 679 00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:21,840 Speaker 1: celebrating right now in the UK, claiming quote, the jury 680 00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:25,279 Speaker 1: gave me my life back. He is going to walk 681 00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:28,759 Speaker 1: away even though he was awarded fifteen million dollars with 682 00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:33,600 Speaker 1: about eight point three five million. Why is that he 683 00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:38,879 Speaker 1: was awarded fifteen million dollars in all? Part of that impunitive, 684 00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:43,319 Speaker 1: part of that in compensatory damages. That's to compensate him 685 00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:46,760 Speaker 1: for damage to his career, But there is a cap 686 00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:51,400 Speaker 1: in that jurisdiction. In Virginia, the maximum on punitive damage 687 00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,880 Speaker 1: of this nature is three hundred and fifty thousand dollars. 688 00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:58,760 Speaker 1: So he's only gonna get the eight point three five 689 00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:03,640 Speaker 1: after paying amber Heard. So for those of you like 690 00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:07,400 Speaker 1: me that are not major in math, that's fifteen million, 691 00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:11,680 Speaker 1: cutting one verdict down to three hundred fifty thousand, and 692 00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:14,840 Speaker 1: he's got to pay amber Heard two million. So you 693 00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:19,120 Speaker 1: know what, that's not exactly pocket change. That's nearly ten 694 00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:24,560 Speaker 1: million dollars, but it has the backdrop of him sewing 695 00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:29,640 Speaker 1: for millions and millions and her sewing for millions and 696 00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:33,399 Speaker 1: millions back. I wonder if the jury thought these were 697 00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:38,840 Speaker 1: just two rich people fighting over money. I tend to 698 00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:42,800 Speaker 1: think so, because one side was asking for one hundred million, 699 00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:46,080 Speaker 1: the other side was asking for fifty million. The full 700 00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:50,360 Speaker 1: award was less than ten million. Amber Heard was in 701 00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:53,719 Speaker 1: the courtroom today and she looked very very serious, as 702 00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:56,839 Speaker 1: she should have. Depth, as I said, was in the UK. 703 00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:00,680 Speaker 1: He says, fulfilling a work commitment. He was supposed to 704 00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:04,319 Speaker 1: be on tour with a band. What does it mean? 705 00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:09,280 Speaker 1: Many people have reduced this down to a popularity contest. 706 00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:14,480 Speaker 1: I do not believe it was a popularity contest. I 707 00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:20,239 Speaker 1: believe that the jury disliked amber Heard. I believe they, 708 00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:24,360 Speaker 1: like me, thought it was really odd that she kept 709 00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:31,800 Speaker 1: filming arguments and filming Depth in very unflattering conditions, almost 710 00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:35,840 Speaker 1: as if she was setting him up. Now. Do I 711 00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:41,480 Speaker 1: believe he ever hit her? Probably? Do I believe she 712 00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:47,440 Speaker 1: set him up? Definitely? Do I believe she lied? Definitely. 713 00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:51,960 Speaker 1: You put all that in the pot together, including the 714 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:58,440 Speaker 1: fact that she admitted on tape that she hit Depth 715 00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:01,759 Speaker 1: as well, and basically, you got two wet cats and 716 00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:04,640 Speaker 1: a barrel. Which one is going to crawl out of 717 00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:08,239 Speaker 1: the barrel first? Well, today Depp crawled out first to 718 00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:12,000 Speaker 1: the tune of eight point three five million. Has this 719 00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:20,680 Speaker 1: set women back real victims of domestic violence? That remains 720 00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:26,680 Speaker 1: to be seen. I tend to think it has. Now 721 00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:32,120 Speaker 1: when a woman claims domestic violence, She's going to be 722 00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:35,920 Speaker 1: accused of quote pulling an Amber. It's going to happen. 723 00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:41,719 Speaker 1: Do I like it? No? Is it true? Yes? I 724 00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:44,800 Speaker 1: want to talk about domestic violence one moment. In addition 725 00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:49,120 Speaker 1: to prosecuting and representing victims for years and years and years, 726 00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:51,640 Speaker 1: I also worked at the Battered Women's Center as a 727 00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:57,440 Speaker 1: volunteer for nine years, manning the hotline. So many women 728 00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:01,200 Speaker 1: are beaten brutally. So many women have nowhere to go. 729 00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:06,680 Speaker 1: So many women stay in vicious abuse of homes to 730 00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:09,239 Speaker 1: protect their children, or because they don't know what else 731 00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:13,279 Speaker 1: to go, or they don't have the resources to get away. 732 00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:18,440 Speaker 1: This case, we'll have an impact on those women, And 733 00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:21,800 Speaker 1: that is really what troubles me most about this case. 734 00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:27,040 Speaker 1: I was just saying this morning on air, a woman 735 00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:31,120 Speaker 1: want it to me at Target and said, do you 736 00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:35,680 Speaker 1: believe Amber heard fake? To Bruce's to me? That was 737 00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:39,000 Speaker 1: the death knell for Amber heard, For the general public 738 00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:43,360 Speaker 1: to believe she faked the whole thing. That's bad. That's 739 00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:48,440 Speaker 1: really bad, and it is a bad omen for domestic 740 00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:55,879 Speaker 1: violence victims in the future, legitimate, real victims. So I'm 741 00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:59,600 Speaker 1: sure Johnny Depp is raising another glass of wine right now, 742 00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:05,400 Speaker 1: and Amber Heard is crying somewhere other somewhere over a 743 00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:11,080 Speaker 1: foiled attempt to get back at depth. Remember this was 744 00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:15,360 Speaker 1: all about an op ed, a piece she wrote for 745 00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:19,520 Speaker 1: The Washington Post, which, although she didn't name him by name, 746 00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:23,879 Speaker 1: called out Johnny Depp as being an abuser. That's how 747 00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:30,239 Speaker 1: the whole thing started. Is it over yet? Probably not. 748 00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:37,960 Speaker 1: There could be appeals to this verdict. There could be repercussions. 749 00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:42,880 Speaker 1: We can't even imagine right now. When you go to court, 750 00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:48,560 Speaker 1: you gotta get ready to roll the dice. You never 751 00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:51,880 Speaker 1: know what a jury is going to do. You better 752 00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:55,200 Speaker 1: have a lawyer alike the rifleman, Remember how he would 753 00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:59,239 Speaker 1: walk down the center of town with his hands slightly 754 00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:02,000 Speaker 1: out to the side, ready to draw. You got to 755 00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:06,360 Speaker 1: have a lawyer that's ready to object and be strong 756 00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:12,560 Speaker 1: immediately in the moment, and a lawyer that the jury 757 00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:18,800 Speaker 1: can relate to and the parties. You really think this 758 00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:23,640 Speaker 1: jury liked Amber Heard? I don't. But more critical, did 759 00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:26,120 Speaker 1: they believe her? I put up a lot of witnesses 760 00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:28,960 Speaker 1: I didn't like. But what matter it is? Were they 761 00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:33,120 Speaker 1: telling the truth? You don't have to be likable. You 762 00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:40,000 Speaker 1: gotta be believable. That was the problem. She just wasn't believable. 763 00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:48,080 Speaker 1: And there you have it. Case closed, well for now anyway, 764 00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:52,000 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace signing off my friend