WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: The Mull Air Mystery 0:00:04.280 --> 0:00:16.439 Thinking sideways. I don't understand you've never stories of things 0:00:16.920 --> 0:00:21.400 you don't know the answer too. Hi there, welcome again 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:26.040 into another episode of thinking Sideways. I'm Joe, joined by 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:31.000 and Steve and tonight we're gonna tackle another mystery. And 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:33.320 this is actually, uh, this is kind of a cool 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:35.760 little mystery. And that's one that I had never even 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:38.680 heard about until about five days ago. So I mean 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:39.960 most of the ones that are out there, we've all 0:00:40.000 --> 0:00:43.080 heard about him, right, yeah, most Yeah, Yeah, I'd never this, 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:45.199 This was new to me. Yeah yeah. And I just 0:00:45.240 --> 0:00:50.120 don't care about airplanes, so there's more than airplanes involved 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:53.560 with this hole. Okay, So today we're gonna talk about 0:00:53.600 --> 0:00:56.000 the moll Air mystery. That's mall as in m U 0:00:56.160 --> 0:00:59.200 l L the Isle of Mole in Scotland, actually in 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:02.600 the Hebrid's I guess that's what they call those all 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:06.040 them islands out there. Okay, So our mystery concerned. It's 0:01:06.040 --> 0:01:09.760 a guy named Peter Gibbs. Peter Gibbs was a professional 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:13.000 musician who played the violin. He played with the London 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:17.000 Symphony Orchestra and later on he led the Scottish Symphony Orchestra. 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:20.319 So this guy was a serious musician. He also flew 0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:23.200 fighter planes. In World War Two. He flew spitfires and 0:01:23.760 --> 0:01:26.319 was considered an air ace he was. He flew for 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:28.360 the r A of the Royal Air Force and after 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:31.240 the war he continued to fly private planes for the 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:35.000 rest of his life along with being a musician. Yeah, 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:39.600 he liked flying, So long story short. On Christmas Eve 0:01:39.680 --> 0:01:45.360 nine and nine pm, he was staying with his girlfriend 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:48.720 at a place called the Glen forsa hotel on the 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:51.800 island of Mall and at nine fifteen on Christmas Eve, 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:55.080 he took off in this rented Cessna F one airplane 0:01:55.720 --> 0:01:57.640 because the hotel just handily happen to have an air 0:01:57.640 --> 0:02:00.840 strip right in front of it, which is really cool. Yeah, 0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:04.520 that's not something you typically would dine. Yeah, I know, 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:07.280 and said that they put it in nineteen sixty six. 0:02:07.320 --> 0:02:09.760 Apparently they wanted to have, you know, easier ways for 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:11.679 people to get onto the island, and they also wanted 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:13.320 to have a way to airlift people out if they 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:15.440 were sick and they needed to go to mainland. That's 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:20.040 so that's why they put it in. So anyway, he 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:24.920 took off at and headed off over the sound of Mole, 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:26.639 which is a big body of water to the north 0:02:26.680 --> 0:02:32.160 of the island, and of course he vanished. Yeah, he vanished. Now, 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:35.079 before you guys fling your iPods to the ground and yelling, 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:39.760 not another frigging missing person's story, I have to say 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:42.440 this particular mystery has got a pretty strange little twist 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:44.440 in it. So bear with us for a little bit. 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:45.959 Would you guys agree that this mystery has got a 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:50.360 kind of twist, a serious twist. Yeah, okay, First our 0:02:50.440 --> 0:02:53.800 cast of characters. We've already met Peter Gibbs. His girlfriend's 0:02:53.880 --> 0:02:57.360 name was Felicity Granger. Tim Howitt is the co owner 0:02:57.400 --> 0:03:00.760 of the Glenforce Hotel. David Howitt is a brother also 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:03.640 on the hotel is He also went by the name 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:05.960 of Scott McCadam, but more on that later. And then 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:09.040 Pauline Howett. I'm not sure she's mentioned in the news story, 0:03:09.080 --> 0:03:11.400 but nobody says exactly who she's married to her, if 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:13.880 she's a sister or what. Well, he won't worry about that. 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:17.320 It doesn't really matter, Oh, I seem I think Pauline 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:20.200 might be one of the people who was who dealt 0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:23.760 with the air field in some capacity, because I remember 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:26.320 reading the news article that I think you're referencing, And 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:29.320 I believe that she stayed in the house that was 0:03:29.400 --> 0:03:33.000 next to it, and so she witnessed some of this certainly, 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:37.600 but she the relationship is unknown, right name? So yeah, 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:42.320 wife's sister, I don't know, I don't care. Yeah. Oh 0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:48.680 and just just a quick fun aside. You guys remember Metaphornio. Yeah, yeah, 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:51.320 the island that she died on, Iona is right next 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:54.000 to Mall. Yeah, Moules the island. If you want to 0:03:54.000 --> 0:03:57.119 get to Iona by road, then you have to take 0:03:57.120 --> 0:03:59.080 the ferry to Mall, drive across Mall and to take 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:03.720 another ferry to get to I ownA so yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:07.000 so yeah, you've got a thing for these islands. I 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:09.000 know they're kind of cool. I'd like to go out 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:10.960 there and do a little research since we started making 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:16.400 some actual money on this. Yeah, okay, okay, back to 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:19.800 our story here though. Um Peter Gibbs and Felicity Granger 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:22.400 had flown to Moll for a holiday over Christmas time, 0:04:22.800 --> 0:04:24.520 and they were staying at the Glen Forest, a hotel 0:04:24.560 --> 0:04:26.320 of course, which has an air strip next to us. 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:30.040 I just mentioned. So that night's Christmas Eve, they had 0:04:30.080 --> 0:04:33.919 dinner together, Gibbs and Felicity Granger, having split a bottle 0:04:33.920 --> 0:04:36.839 of wine. He uh. He then announced that to Tim Howitt, 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:38.320 the owner, that he was going to go do a 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:41.920 little flying, and then how It asked him accial that 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:44.680 that was a wise idea, but Gibbs said, yeah, I'm 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:46.159 gonna do it whether you like it or not. And 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:50.520 so but I mean, for one thing, it was dark, dark, cold, 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:53.320 and you've had a half a bottle of wine and 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:56.160 there was a storm moving in. Yeah, there was a 0:04:56.200 --> 0:04:59.560 storm coming into So Felicity went along with him, but 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:02.480 she does it wasn't gonna actually flash he just needed 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:04.039 just needed to get out there with a couple of 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:06.799 flashlights and go down to one end of the runway 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:09.000 and lay the flashlights out so you know, you can 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:11.640 see where he was going. Because it's a primitive air strip, 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:14.599 it's just grass and it doesn't have like landing lights 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:16.880 or anything like that. So typically if they want to 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:18.479 do a landing or anything like that at night, what 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:21.679 they'll usually do is bringing some cars and park cars 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:24.640 around the airstrip. People can see it that way. This 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:27.560 is headlights on. Yeah I know. Yeah. Also, I just 0:05:27.640 --> 0:05:30.800 like what kind of guy is like, oh, it's Christmas Eve. 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:33.520 I'm here with my sweetie. We're like in this hotel. 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:37.080 We just had a romantic dinner. I'm gonna fly in by. 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:45.120 But he did it, and uh, maybe he was just bored, 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:47.320 you know, he just wanted to He just wanted to 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:49.760 go out and do something fun. He was. He was 0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:51.359 a little bit of a daredevil. I was I was 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:53.960 reading something that was written by one of his co 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:58.080 musicians that he was into the symphony orchestra with. And uh, 0:05:58.480 --> 0:06:00.599 one one am using little store is that they were 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:02.880 hated they're going to go to a performance. They were 0:06:02.880 --> 0:06:06.520 both performing in the symphony and they were in they 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:09.800 were the traffic was just totally backed up and not 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:13.560 moving and but it turns out the oncoming lanes were 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:17.640 pretty clear. And so this guy said says to Gifts, 0:06:17.720 --> 0:06:19.600 he says, what are we gonna do? We're gonna be late, 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:22.080 and Gift says, no, we're not move over, I'm driving 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:24.640 and so and so he puts the card care it 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:31.279 just goes into the oncoming lanes, just just buzzes on. Yeah. 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:35.040 Sure not so. Yeah, he kind of was a thrill seeker. Well, 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:38.400 he also had had a bit of a temper too, 0:06:39.279 --> 0:06:41.120 Like he seemed a bit of a hothead, because I 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:45.040 remember reading the story about him in the symphony and 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:48.640 evidently they had some conductor who was a total jerk, 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:52.400 and he finally stood up to the guy, and because 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:55.120 of that, he ended up getting fired. But he was 0:06:55.160 --> 0:06:58.320 the only one who just said, that's it. I'm saying something, Yeah, 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:01.359 take it anymore. And he was in the right. But apparently, 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:04.320 but apparently that's just the cultures that you never you 0:07:04.360 --> 0:07:06.640 never talked that way to the conductor, even though the 0:07:06.640 --> 0:07:09.280 conductor deserved it. And it was yeah, and it was 0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:11.880 actually kind of funny. I mean, that's so so so 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:15.160 upper crust. The rules are so are so subtle. Because 0:07:15.520 --> 0:07:19.240 the conductors in fraction was at the end of her performance, 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:21.000 he didn't wait for the applause. He just turned and 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:23.760 walked off the stage. And that's that's considered a major 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:26.400 insult to the audience, to the musicians, and so and 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:28.800 you know, and and so that's what the whole dust 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:31.320 up was about. Anyway, But we're way off base here. 0:07:31.360 --> 0:07:35.080 Let's let's get that David Howitt heard heard the plane 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:37.040 being started, and he went out and got his binoculars, 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:39.720 and he was watching the Cessna, and he was a 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:42.480 little bit, a little bit worried about this being nighttime 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:46.680 and all, and yeah, and and he he handed the 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:50.680 binoculars over to Pauline Howett. She was watching them set 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:54.520 up the flashlights, and she said that she was sure 0:07:54.600 --> 0:07:57.640 that both flashlights were moving at the same time. Now 0:07:58.080 --> 0:08:00.600 she Felicity went to do the flash he was in 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:02.960 the airplane because she could hear the plane revving the engine. 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:04.880 The plane engine was revving, so somebody was in there 0:08:04.880 --> 0:08:08.280 controlling the plane. So if Gibbs was in the plane, 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:12.040 how is she how is she Because the airstrip is 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:16.240 about wide maybe, so how is she managing to move 0:08:16.320 --> 0:08:18.720 both of these flash lights at the same time? So 0:08:19.040 --> 0:08:22.200 they were placed on the opposite ends. It wasn't like 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:25.640 one person with like what what are they using? Airports? Now? 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:31.000 Were there making the air motion? Yeah, the lights to 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:33.640 to direct the traffic. It wasn't moving like that. It 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:35.960 was a It was placed at the end, but placed 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:38.559 on the corners so that he knew where the end 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:40.920 of the runway was, so that he knew he had 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:43.080 to be airborne by that plane and he could end 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:45.840 and he could aim between the two lights, but obviously 0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:51.440 they'd be apart, so probably it was, Yeah, it was. 0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:53.320 It was a little odd. She was under the impression 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:54.920 that perhaps there was more than one person, more than 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:57.839 two people down there. And Tim Howitt saw the same thing. 0:08:57.880 --> 0:08:59.840 He was in the Apparently the hotel has an observe 0:08:59.880 --> 0:09:03.000 a lounge. Of course it does. Of course it's like 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:05.160 a little airport, so you know, of course it does. 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:08.640 And yeah, he also said that both let both lights 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:11.319 were moving at the same time, but when asked, a 0:09:11.360 --> 0:09:14.200 Felicity Granger later said, no, it was just her. There's 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:16.199 no other better than nobody else out there, is it. 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:18.000 Then it wouldn't have been on a hill or anything. 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:27.240 They wouldn't have been rolling. No, No, it's flat, so yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:29.640 So so that's a little bit of a puzzler. But 0:09:29.679 --> 0:09:31.679 we'll talk about that a little bit later here, if 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:36.439 we talked about it at all. But so he slammed 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:38.679 in the gear and took off and flew out over 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:41.600 the sound of ball, and David Howett was a little 0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:44.200 bit worried. So he there's a place just down the road, 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:45.920 and you can see this on the aerial photo if 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:48.679 you want to do Google Earth or whatever. It's just 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:51.520 to the east, but I don't know, five six feet 0:09:51.520 --> 0:09:53.560 down the road or quartermall down the road, I don't know. 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:57.400 But Pennygown Cemetery is right on the sound and it's 0:09:57.400 --> 0:10:00.200 got a good panoramic view. So he drove down there 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:03.680 with the radio so he could just sort of see 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:06.079 if the plane came back and then listen for distress 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:09.160 calls and things like that, because he was, like I said, worried. 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:12.000 And of course, not long after he arrived there a 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:15.240 nice big sleet storm rolled in which lasted for seventy 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:18.720 two hours. So, yeah, bad luck. Nothing's worse than a 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:24.960 sleet store. It's not rain, it's icy. Yeah, and you 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:26.800 gotta wonder what that's gonna do to your plane, you know. 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:29.320 So it's it's gonna ice up your windshield, it's gonna 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:31.960 icee up your your flaps and your wings, and it's 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:34.640 like that bad news. Yeah, that's terrible news when you're 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:38.120 in the air, really bad news. They waited, but Gibbs 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:43.520 did not come back, and so next day, on Christmas Day, 0:10:43.720 --> 0:10:45.959 called the authorities in and there was a big land 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:49.080 and sea search. These r A F and Navy helicopters 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:53.559 and a police mountain rescue unit, lots and lots of volunteers, 0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:56.400 people who knew the area pretty well, and they went 0:10:56.480 --> 0:10:58.640 over the island and searched it looking for looking for 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:02.680 a wreckage, and didn't find any plane wreck. That's where 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:05.319 the story ended for the time being. But then four 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:09.559 months later, one nineteen seventy six, a local shepherd found 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:14.640 his body up on the hillside above Pennygown Cemetery. Yeah, 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:17.199 up on the hillside about fo up. I feel like 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:20.480 this is why we have our rule about five years, right, 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:24.360 because like people email us and say, oh, there's story 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:26.840 this person disappeared, and it's like, well, it's only been 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:29.600 two months, but yeah, his body will turn up, don't worry. 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:32.480 Oh no, that's the worst, you know, when the park 0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:34.400 turns up the day afterwards and we put the show 0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:37.400 in the air. Yeah yeah, but anyway, So anyway, folks, 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:39.280 I told you, I promise you there'd be a weird twist, 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:41.400 and this is a So they found his body, but 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:44.920 no plane wreck. They found his body. The only pre 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:47.000 death injury on his body. And I say pre death 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:50.160 because there have been some scavengers and birds kind of 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:52.400 pecking at him and stuff like that. So he had 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:54.199 some injuries, but the only pre death injury they could 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:57.760 find was a three inch laceration on his left shin. Now, 0:11:58.080 --> 0:12:00.160 if he had fallen out of the plane or or 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:02.760 jumped out of the plane or whatever had broken bones, 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:05.520 he would have had broken bones, massive contusions, I mean, yeah, 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:07.199 So he didn't have any of that, no injuries to 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:10.559 speak of. So the pathologists included the exposure was the 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:14.400 cause of death. Yeah, And they also they also examined 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:16.720 his clothes and his boots and his hair and everything 0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:20.120 for any traces of salt water or marine life, you know, 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:23.200 only little any little bugs that got and there was none. 0:12:23.240 --> 0:12:26.160 There was none of that stuff. It's it's a real puzzler. 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:31.040 If he I guess the question would be, like, is 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:33.960 that something that would wash away if there was a 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:39.120 lot of areen or sleep I would think that, you know, 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:42.480 the hair and the clothes even possibly it would wash away, 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:45.920 But not the boots he was wearing flying boots, like 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:48.880 the insides. Yeah, they would definitely they would be getting 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:53.000 stuck in the wicking through the material, right, But that 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:56.120 it would be saltwater versus whatever water was washing over 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:59.360 it over the course of the four four once that 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:02.680 he was thing, Okay, yeah, I mean so I think 0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:07.319 it's pretty unlikely. But in October of the same year 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:11.000 ninety six, local farmer found a tire from the Sessina 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:15.920 washed up about two miles northwest of the hotel. Yeah, 0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:19.959 and apparently apparently they had the serial number either painted 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:22.240 on or written on or something like that. I would 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:24.280 imagine it be cast into the tire. And you think 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:26.760 about your tires that you buy for your car. There's 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:30.360 all those numbers are right along the inside of the rim. 0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:33.400 I imagine that's got to be some kind of serial 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:36.319 number that's got a big Yeah. I don't know, but yeah. 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:37.880 So the only way that that they were able to 0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:40.679 match it to these to the Sesna. So that's the 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:43.680 only thing that they found from the wreckage of the 0:13:43.720 --> 0:13:49.880 Cessna for years. In September, so that's like eleven years 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:54.440 ten years later, Yeah, eleven years after a diver found 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:56.240 the wreckage of a small plane in the Sound of 0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:59.280 Ball and two locations are cited in the stories that 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:01.520 I read. Once says that it was found out the 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:04.080 cost off the coast of Open, the city the town 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:06.520 of Open, about a mile offshore, and which puts it, 0:14:06.559 --> 0:14:09.280 I don't know, ten miles away, maybe to the southeast 0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:13.080 from the hotel. But another one says that it's about 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:16.959 a mile east northeast from the hotel out the sound. 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:21.000 So that's that's a pretty huge variation. Uh So the 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:22.880 diver reported that the wings have been torn off the 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:27.360 plane about the doors were still latched and shut? Were they? Wait, 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:30.000 let me clarify that, because I've read some things and 0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:34.680 I just want to clarify they were latched, shut dot locked. Yeah, 0:14:34.720 --> 0:14:38.160 they were latched. I don't I don't even know something 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:41.080 about locked. And so that's why I was curious, because 0:14:41.160 --> 0:14:43.320 I did some digging about the plane, and I never 0:14:43.360 --> 0:14:46.680 saw anything that said that the doors locked like that. 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:49.040 I would assume you could lock them from the outside 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:50.760 at least. I don't know why you would need them 0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:53.240 to be locked from the inside, you know, when you're 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:55.240 flying there as long as they're latched, but you would 0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:56.600 kind of want to be able to lock it up 0:14:56.800 --> 0:14:58.840 when you like walk away from it when it's on 0:14:58.880 --> 0:15:01.600 the ground. Right. Oh. Yeah. The thing about it is 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:03.880 if he if he crashed and then swam out of 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:07.320 the plane, it wouldn't be latched. No, you wouldn't turn 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:12.920 around even if out of yeah, yeah, you're going. Yeah. Well, 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:15.160 if he says, say he jumped out at speed, if 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:18.720 you managed to force it would have slapped it shut again, 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:22.040 but then he would have had broken mounds. Yeah, Okay, 0:15:22.120 --> 0:15:27.240 we're sorry, we're theorizing. But anyway, I've seen no documentation. 0:15:27.400 --> 0:15:29.920 I've tried to find something. You would think that he would. 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:32.680 He would write down the call numbers or whatever they 0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:34.520 are on the side of the diver, if you think 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:35.960 he would have done that, But I don't. I don't 0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:38.720 see that he did. He's basically said he found a plane, 0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:43.320 and everybody thinks that this gives this plane, but nobody 0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:46.400 knows exactly for sure why he didn't market with the booty. 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:49.160 I don't know, although he doesn't remember either where it is. 0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:51.240 I mean, I'm sure you could go back and search 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:53.600 and find it somehow. It's just probably ways to find 0:15:53.600 --> 0:15:55.920 and they probably should try to figure this out. It 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:58.640 would be they're never really going to solve the mystery 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:01.200 until they find that airplane. Even then they probably won't, 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:03.680 but you know, there might be a clue in there. 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:07.120 So anyway, years go by, then again, a lot of 0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:09.400 people are assuming, but nobody knows for sure that that's 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:12.080 just plane. But an early two thousand floor two thousand 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:16.000 four or three Royal Navy minesweepers were up doing stuff 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:18.480 off the coast of Open again and they found the 0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:20.680 wreckage of a plane about a mile off of Open. 0:16:20.760 --> 0:16:24.880 So that sort of supports the divers location as being 0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:26.720 a mile off of Open unless it's a different wreck 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:28.240 and there's no reason it couldn't be a different ren. 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:30.320 I was gonna say it could be any plane. Yeah, 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:32.560 that set out of speculation in the papers that they 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:35.280 thought this might be Gibbs as plane that the rf 0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:37.440 IT found. They said that they found a submersible of 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:40.040 cameras down there and stuff like that to get pictures 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:44.120 of it. And they analyzed it, investigated, and they figured 0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:46.080 out that the recage they found was a Catalan a 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:50.320 flying boat. Familiar with those things, those amphibious planes, Yeah, 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:52.560 they're they're kind of they're kind of big, and they've 0:16:52.600 --> 0:16:54.720 got the bottom of the hull is shaped almost like 0:16:54.760 --> 0:17:01.160 a boat, and then they've got overhead wings. Okay, so 0:17:01.200 --> 0:17:04.520 except for without the pontoons, right, yeah, I doesn't have 0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:09.600 the because like a normal seaplane would have like the 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:12.680 pontoons instead of like wheels, and they just like take 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:16.160 off and land that way. These are more like boat planes. 0:17:16.720 --> 0:17:20.560 They still have small pontoons, right, but it's not the same. Yeah, 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:24.119 it's not like you know when you see to be 0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:27.000 right right, Yeah, yeah, it's probably it's probably nice to 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:29.040 have some pontoon, you sort of floaty thing out there, 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:32.680 just in case a wave catches you on the side. Yeah, yeah, 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:35.159 but they'd be on the wings, not on like legs 0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:38.920 below the plane where running gears supposed to be running gear. 0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:45.560 Thank you planes, not your No. So this rect was 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:51.200 a disappointment, Yeah, unfortunately. Um so the location is still 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:54.520 a mystery, and who knows, maybe the plane didn't even crash. 0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:59.160 I mean it's possible, yeah maybe he just but I'm 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:01.800 not going to theorize about this yet. We'll talk about 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:04.439 that later. Uh. There have been two two books are 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:08.280 written about this, The Great Mall Air Mystery by Scott McCadam, 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:10.879 whose name actually is David Howitt, the co owner of 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:16.560 the hotel. So he was ghostwriting, yeah he was, yeah, yeah, 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:18.480 maybe maybe he was afraid that if the book came 0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:20.000 out and turn out to be really lame, and all 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:22.880 everybody would make fun of him, so he was a name. 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:27.080 And the other book is fictionalized account to the whole 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:30.160 thing called These Demented Lands by Alan Warner, who lives 0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:32.919 in Oben. I remember seeing the cover of that, at 0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:34.359 least the cover of the one that I saw. I 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:38.200 had a really cool cover. All Right, you're ready to 0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:42.879 swing in to the theories, Okay, alright, good enough. So 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:46.720 I've got several theories here. One is that the plane 0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:49.280 crash into the sound of Mall and he managed to 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:52.639 escape and swim to shore. And once he was on shore, 0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:56.119 he could have from where he was at he could 0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:58.919 have walked to the road, made a right turn and 0:18:59.040 --> 0:19:01.520 walked down the road a little waste to the hotel. 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:05.440 Wasn't that far? This is This is based on if 0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:09.200 he crashed a mile out to see from the airfield, 0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:14.120 not if he crashed near open correct. Yeah, okay, yeah, 0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:17.320 Well it's it's conceivable even that. I don't know how 0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:20.800 well assessment one fifty flies without a pilot in it. 0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:23.400 I don't know how far it would have gone. It's 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:26.200 conceivable he didn't crash a mile out. Maybe he bailed 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:28.439 closer to shore and the plane went out and then 0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:32.320 crashed further out. I could see that. Yeah, but the 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:36.720 plane crashed, he manages to escape somehow, and apparently the 0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:41.560 windshield was broken, so he maybe swam out through that then, 0:19:41.680 --> 0:19:44.760 because since the doors were locked, I can't imagine he'd 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:47.879 swim out from a sinking plane and turn around and 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:50.840 shut the door. No, but I couldn't the water pressure 0:19:50.880 --> 0:19:53.199 have shut the door. I mean it's possible, you know. 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:54.679 And the other thing to keep in mind is that 0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:58.640 the plane wasn't even like maybe discovered until like ten 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:00.679 years later. Right, maybe it was and fish shot, So 0:20:00.680 --> 0:20:02.840 it's always a little bit. It's always possible, you know, 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:05.600 that the currents are when it tumbles to the bottom 0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:07.840 and the wings are snapping off, because the wings were 0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:11.240 snapped off in the the one that was found that 0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:15.240 I said, the wings were broke off, So I could 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:19.639 see conceivably, if the plane goes down and it tumbles 0:20:19.680 --> 0:20:23.199 across the surface of the water and the door is 0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:27.560 not latched, it's probably going to get slam shut. And 0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:31.720 even if it came down gently, I could see as 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:34.640 it sinks and it hits the bottom, if it happens 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:38.480 to land, right, I mean, this is circumstantial, and god 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:40.800 knows if we're even on the right track here, but 0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:45.120 we don't even know that this actually gives us plane right. Yeah, 0:20:45.119 --> 0:20:48.119 but it is possible that an open door can be shut. 0:20:48.800 --> 0:20:52.000 So he swims the shore. Once he's on shore, he 0:20:52.240 --> 0:20:56.720 apparently maybe had hypothermy. In fact, it probably did swim 0:20:56.760 --> 0:20:59.760 through that icy cold water. So he gets to the 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:02.960 or and gets confused because all he needs to do 0:21:03.040 --> 0:21:04.800 is walk up to the road, make a right turn, 0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:07.040 like I said, go down to the hotel, and he's 0:21:07.080 --> 0:21:10.920 home free. Instead he wanders up the hillside and then 0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:15.240