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Speaker 1: Thinking sideways. I don't understand you've never stories of things

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Speaker 1: you don't know the answer too. Hi there, welcome again

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Speaker 1: into another episode of thinking Sideways. I'm Joe, joined by

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Speaker 1: and Steve and tonight we're gonna tackle another mystery. And

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Speaker 1: this is actually, uh, this is kind of a cool

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Speaker 1: little mystery. And that's one that I had never even

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Speaker 1: heard about until about five days ago. So I mean

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Speaker 1: most of the ones that are out there, we've all

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Speaker 1: heard about him, right, yeah, most Yeah, Yeah, I'd never this,

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Speaker 1: This was new to me. Yeah yeah. And I just

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Speaker 1: don't care about airplanes, so there's more than airplanes involved

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Speaker 1: with this hole. Okay, So today we're gonna talk about

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Speaker 1: the moll Air mystery. That's mall as in m U

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Speaker 1: l L the Isle of Mole in Scotland, actually in

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Speaker 1: the Hebrid's I guess that's what they call those all

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Speaker 1: them islands out there. Okay, So our mystery concerned. It's

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Speaker 1: a guy named Peter Gibbs. Peter Gibbs was a professional

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Speaker 1: musician who played the violin. He played with the London

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Speaker 1: Symphony Orchestra and later on he led the Scottish Symphony Orchestra.

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Speaker 1: So this guy was a serious musician. He also flew

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Speaker 1: fighter planes. In World War Two. He flew spitfires and

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Speaker 1: was considered an air ace he was. He flew for

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Speaker 1: the r A of the Royal Air Force and after

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Speaker 1: the war he continued to fly private planes for the

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Speaker 1: rest of his life along with being a musician. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he liked flying, So long story short. On Christmas Eve

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Speaker 1: nine and nine pm, he was staying with his girlfriend

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Speaker 1: at a place called the Glen forsa hotel on the

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Speaker 1: island of Mall and at nine fifteen on Christmas Eve,

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Speaker 1: he took off in this rented Cessna F one airplane

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Speaker 1: because the hotel just handily happen to have an air

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Speaker 1: strip right in front of it, which is really cool. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's not something you typically would dine. Yeah, I know,

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Speaker 1: and said that they put it in nineteen sixty six.

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Speaker 1: Apparently they wanted to have, you know, easier ways for

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Speaker 1: people to get onto the island, and they also wanted

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Speaker 1: to have a way to airlift people out if they

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Speaker 1: were sick and they needed to go to mainland. That's

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Speaker 1: so that's why they put it in. So anyway, he

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Speaker 1: took off at and headed off over the sound of Mole,

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Speaker 1: which is a big body of water to the north

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Speaker 1: of the island, and of course he vanished. Yeah, he vanished. Now,

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Speaker 1: before you guys fling your iPods to the ground and yelling,

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Speaker 1: not another frigging missing person's story, I have to say

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Speaker 1: this particular mystery has got a pretty strange little twist

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Speaker 1: in it. So bear with us for a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Would you guys agree that this mystery has got a

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Speaker 1: kind of twist, a serious twist. Yeah, okay, First our

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Speaker 1: cast of characters. We've already met Peter Gibbs. His girlfriend's

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Speaker 1: name was Felicity Granger. Tim Howitt is the co owner

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Speaker 1: of the Glenforce Hotel. David Howitt is a brother also

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Speaker 1: on the hotel is He also went by the name

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Speaker 1: of Scott McCadam, but more on that later. And then

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Speaker 1: Pauline Howett. I'm not sure she's mentioned in the news story,

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Speaker 1: but nobody says exactly who she's married to her, if

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Speaker 1: she's a sister or what. Well, he won't worry about that.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't really matter, Oh, I seem I think Pauline

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Speaker 1: might be one of the people who was who dealt

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Speaker 1: with the air field in some capacity, because I remember

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Speaker 1: reading the news article that I think you're referencing, And

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Speaker 1: I believe that she stayed in the house that was

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Speaker 1: next to it, and so she witnessed some of this certainly,

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Speaker 1: but she the relationship is unknown, right name? So yeah,

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Speaker 1: wife's sister, I don't know, I don't care. Yeah. Oh

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Speaker 1: and just just a quick fun aside. You guys remember Metaphornio. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the island that she died on, Iona is right next

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Speaker 1: to Mall. Yeah, Moules the island. If you want to

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Speaker 1: get to Iona by road, then you have to take

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Speaker 1: the ferry to Mall, drive across Mall and to take

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Speaker 1: another ferry to get to I ownA so yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so yeah, you've got a thing for these islands. I

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Speaker 1: know they're kind of cool. I'd like to go out

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Speaker 1: there and do a little research since we started making

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Speaker 1: some actual money on this. Yeah, okay, okay, back to

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Speaker 1: our story here though. Um Peter Gibbs and Felicity Granger

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Speaker 1: had flown to Moll for a holiday over Christmas time,

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Speaker 1: and they were staying at the Glen Forest, a hotel

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Speaker 1: of course, which has an air strip next to us.

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Speaker 1: I just mentioned. So that night's Christmas Eve, they had

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Speaker 1: dinner together, Gibbs and Felicity Granger, having split a bottle

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Speaker 1: of wine. He uh. He then announced that to Tim Howitt,

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Speaker 1: the owner, that he was going to go do a

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Speaker 1: little flying, and then how It asked him accial that

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Speaker 1: that was a wise idea, but Gibbs said, yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna do it whether you like it or not. And

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Speaker 1: so but I mean, for one thing, it was dark, dark, cold,

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Speaker 1: and you've had a half a bottle of wine and

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Speaker 1: there was a storm moving in. Yeah, there was a

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Speaker 1: storm coming into So Felicity went along with him, but

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Speaker 1: she does it wasn't gonna actually flash he just needed

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Speaker 1: just needed to get out there with a couple of

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Speaker 1: flashlights and go down to one end of the runway

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Speaker 1: and lay the flashlights out so you know, you can

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Speaker 1: see where he was going. Because it's a primitive air strip,

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Speaker 1: it's just grass and it doesn't have like landing lights

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Speaker 1: or anything like that. So typically if they want to

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Speaker 1: do a landing or anything like that at night, what

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Speaker 1: they'll usually do is bringing some cars and park cars

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Speaker 1: around the airstrip. People can see it that way. This

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Speaker 1: is headlights on. Yeah I know. Yeah. Also, I just

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Speaker 1: like what kind of guy is like, oh, it's Christmas Eve.

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Speaker 1: I'm here with my sweetie. We're like in this hotel.

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Speaker 1: We just had a romantic dinner. I'm gonna fly in by.

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Speaker 1: But he did it, and uh, maybe he was just bored,

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Speaker 1: you know, he just wanted to He just wanted to

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Speaker 1: go out and do something fun. He was. He was

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a daredevil. I was I was

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Speaker 1: reading something that was written by one of his co

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Speaker 1: musicians that he was into the symphony orchestra with. And uh,

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Speaker 1: one one am using little store is that they were

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Speaker 1: hated they're going to go to a performance. They were

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Speaker 1: both performing in the symphony and they were in they

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Speaker 1: were the traffic was just totally backed up and not

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Speaker 1: moving and but it turns out the oncoming lanes were

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Speaker 1: pretty clear. And so this guy said says to Gifts,

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Speaker 1: he says, what are we gonna do? We're gonna be late,

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Speaker 1: and Gift says, no, we're not move over, I'm driving

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Speaker 1: and so and so he puts the card care it

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Speaker 1: just goes into the oncoming lanes, just just buzzes on. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Sure not so. Yeah, he kind of was a thrill seeker. Well,

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Speaker 1: he also had had a bit of a temper too,

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Speaker 1: Like he seemed a bit of a hothead, because I

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Speaker 1: remember reading the story about him in the symphony and

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Speaker 1: evidently they had some conductor who was a total jerk,

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Speaker 1: and he finally stood up to the guy, and because

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Speaker 1: of that, he ended up getting fired. But he was

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Speaker 1: the only one who just said, that's it. I'm saying something, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: take it anymore. And he was in the right. But apparently,

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Speaker 1: but apparently that's just the cultures that you never you

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Speaker 1: never talked that way to the conductor, even though the

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Speaker 1: conductor deserved it. And it was yeah, and it was

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Speaker 1: actually kind of funny. I mean, that's so so so

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Speaker 1: upper crust. The rules are so are so subtle. Because

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Speaker 1: the conductors in fraction was at the end of her performance,

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Speaker 1: he didn't wait for the applause. He just turned and

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Speaker 1: walked off the stage. And that's that's considered a major

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Speaker 1: insult to the audience, to the musicians, and so and

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Speaker 1: you know, and and so that's what the whole dust

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Speaker 1: up was about. Anyway, But we're way off base here.

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Speaker 1: Let's let's get that David Howitt heard heard the plane

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Speaker 1: being started, and he went out and got his binoculars,

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Speaker 1: and he was watching the Cessna, and he was a

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Speaker 1: little bit, a little bit worried about this being nighttime

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Speaker 1: and all, and yeah, and and he he handed the

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Speaker 1: binoculars over to Pauline Howett. She was watching them set

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Speaker 1: up the flashlights, and she said that she was sure

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Speaker 1: that both flashlights were moving at the same time. Now

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Speaker 1: she Felicity went to do the flash he was in

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Speaker 1: the airplane because she could hear the plane revving the engine.

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Speaker 1: The plane engine was revving, so somebody was in there

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Speaker 1: controlling the plane. So if Gibbs was in the plane,

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Speaker 1: how is she how is she Because the airstrip is

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Speaker 1: about wide maybe, so how is she managing to move

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Speaker 1: both of these flash lights at the same time? So

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Speaker 1: they were placed on the opposite ends. It wasn't like

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Speaker 1: one person with like what what are they using? Airports? Now?

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Speaker 1: Were there making the air motion? Yeah, the lights to

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Speaker 1: to direct the traffic. It wasn't moving like that. It

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Speaker 1: was a It was placed at the end, but placed

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Speaker 1: on the corners so that he knew where the end

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Speaker 1: of the runway was, so that he knew he had

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Speaker 1: to be airborne by that plane and he could end

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Speaker 1: and he could aim between the two lights, but obviously

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Speaker 1: they'd be apart, so probably it was, Yeah, it was.

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Speaker 1: It was a little odd. She was under the impression

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Speaker 1: that perhaps there was more than one person, more than

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Speaker 1: two people down there. And Tim Howitt saw the same thing.

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Speaker 1: He was in the Apparently the hotel has an observe

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Speaker 1: a lounge. Of course it does. Of course it's like

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Speaker 1: a little airport, so you know, of course it does.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, he also said that both let both lights

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Speaker 1: were moving at the same time, but when asked, a

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Speaker 1: Felicity Granger later said, no, it was just her. There's

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Speaker 1: no other better than nobody else out there, is it.

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Speaker 1: Then it wouldn't have been on a hill or anything.

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Speaker 1: They wouldn't have been rolling. No, No, it's flat, so yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: So so that's a little bit of a puzzler. But

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about that a little bit later here, if

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Speaker 1: we talked about it at all. But so he slammed

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Speaker 1: in the gear and took off and flew out over

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Speaker 1: the sound of ball, and David Howett was a little

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Speaker 1: bit worried. So he there's a place just down the road,

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Speaker 1: and you can see this on the aerial photo if

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Speaker 1: you want to do Google Earth or whatever. It's just

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Speaker 1: to the east, but I don't know, five six feet

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Speaker 1: down the road or quartermall down the road, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: But Pennygown Cemetery is right on the sound and it's

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Speaker 1: got a good panoramic view. So he drove down there

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Speaker 1: with the radio so he could just sort of see

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Speaker 1: if the plane came back and then listen for distress

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Speaker 1: calls and things like that, because he was, like I said, worried.

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Speaker 1: And of course, not long after he arrived there a

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Speaker 1: nice big sleet storm rolled in which lasted for seventy

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Speaker 1: two hours. So, yeah, bad luck. Nothing's worse than a

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Speaker 1: sleet store. It's not rain, it's icy. Yeah, and you

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Speaker 1: gotta wonder what that's gonna do to your plane, you know.

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Speaker 1: So it's it's gonna ice up your windshield, it's gonna

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Speaker 1: icee up your your flaps and your wings, and it's

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Speaker 1: like that bad news. Yeah, that's terrible news when you're

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Speaker 1: in the air, really bad news. They waited, but Gibbs

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Speaker 1: did not come back, and so next day, on Christmas Day,

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Speaker 1: called the authorities in and there was a big land

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Speaker 1: and sea search. These r A F and Navy helicopters

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Speaker 1: and a police mountain rescue unit, lots and lots of volunteers,

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Speaker 1: people who knew the area pretty well, and they went

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Speaker 1: over the island and searched it looking for looking for

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Speaker 1: a wreckage, and didn't find any plane wreck. That's where

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Speaker 1: the story ended for the time being. But then four

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Speaker 1: months later, one nineteen seventy six, a local shepherd found

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Speaker 1: his body up on the hillside above Pennygown Cemetery. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: up on the hillside about fo up. I feel like

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Speaker 1: this is why we have our rule about five years, right,

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Speaker 1: because like people email us and say, oh, there's story

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Speaker 1: this person disappeared, and it's like, well, it's only been

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Speaker 1: two months, but yeah, his body will turn up, don't worry.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, that's the worst, you know, when the park

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Speaker 1: turns up the day afterwards and we put the show

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Speaker 1: in the air. Yeah yeah, but anyway, So anyway, folks,

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Speaker 1: I told you, I promise you there'd be a weird twist,

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Speaker 1: and this is a So they found his body, but

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Speaker 1: no plane wreck. They found his body. The only pre

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Speaker 1: death injury on his body. And I say pre death

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Speaker 1: because there have been some scavengers and birds kind of

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Speaker 1: pecking at him and stuff like that. So he had

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Speaker 1: some injuries, but the only pre death injury they could

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Speaker 1: find was a three inch laceration on his left shin. Now,

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Speaker 1: if he had fallen out of the plane or or

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Speaker 1: jumped out of the plane or whatever had broken bones,

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Speaker 1: he would have had broken bones, massive contusions, I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 1: So he didn't have any of that, no injuries to

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Speaker 1: speak of. So the pathologists included the exposure was the

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Speaker 1: cause of death. Yeah, And they also they also examined

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Speaker 1: his clothes and his boots and his hair and everything

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Speaker 1: for any traces of salt water or marine life, you know,

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Speaker 1: only little any little bugs that got and there was none.

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Speaker 1: There was none of that stuff. It's it's a real puzzler.

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Speaker 1: If he I guess the question would be, like, is

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Speaker 1: that something that would wash away if there was a

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Speaker 1: lot of areen or sleep I would think that, you know,

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Speaker 1: the hair and the clothes even possibly it would wash away,

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Speaker 1: But not the boots he was wearing flying boots, like

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Speaker 1: the insides. Yeah, they would definitely they would be getting

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Speaker 1: stuck in the wicking through the material, right, But that

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Speaker 1: it would be saltwater versus whatever water was washing over

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Speaker 1: it over the course of the four four once that

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Speaker 1: he was thing, Okay, yeah, I mean so I think

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Speaker 1: it's pretty unlikely. But in October of the same year

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Speaker 1: ninety six, local farmer found a tire from the Sessina

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Speaker 1: washed up about two miles northwest of the hotel. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and apparently apparently they had the serial number either painted

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Speaker 1: on or written on or something like that. I would

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Speaker 1: imagine it be cast into the tire. And you think

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Speaker 1: about your tires that you buy for your car. There's

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Speaker 1: all those numbers are right along the inside of the rim.

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Speaker 1: I imagine that's got to be some kind of serial

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Speaker 1: number that's got a big Yeah. I don't know, but yeah.

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Speaker 1: So the only way that that they were able to

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Speaker 1: match it to these to the Sesna. So that's the

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Speaker 1: only thing that they found from the wreckage of the

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Speaker 1: Cessna for years. In September, so that's like eleven years

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Speaker 1: ten years later, Yeah, eleven years after a diver found

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Speaker 1: the wreckage of a small plane in the Sound of

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Speaker 1: Ball and two locations are cited in the stories that

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Speaker 1: I read. Once says that it was found out the

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Speaker 1: cost off the coast of Open, the city the town

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Speaker 1: of Open, about a mile offshore, and which puts it,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, ten miles away, maybe to the southeast

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Speaker 1: from the hotel. But another one says that it's about

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Speaker 1: a mile east northeast from the hotel out the sound.

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Speaker 1: So that's that's a pretty huge variation. Uh So the

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Speaker 1: diver reported that the wings have been torn off the

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Speaker 1: plane about the doors were still latched and shut? Were they? Wait,

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Speaker 1: let me clarify that, because I've read some things and

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Speaker 1: I just want to clarify they were latched, shut dot locked. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they were latched. I don't I don't even know something

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Speaker 1: about locked. And so that's why I was curious, because

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Speaker 1: I did some digging about the plane, and I never

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Speaker 1: saw anything that said that the doors locked like that.

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Speaker 1: I would assume you could lock them from the outside

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Speaker 1: at least. I don't know why you would need them

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Speaker 1: to be locked from the inside, you know, when you're

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Speaker 1: flying there as long as they're latched, but you would

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Speaker 1: kind of want to be able to lock it up

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Speaker 1: when you like walk away from it when it's on

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Speaker 1: the ground. Right. Oh. Yeah. The thing about it is

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Speaker 1: if he if he crashed and then swam out of

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Speaker 1: the plane, it wouldn't be latched. No, you wouldn't turn

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Speaker 1: around even if out of yeah, yeah, you're going. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: if he says, say he jumped out at speed, if

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Speaker 1: you managed to force it would have slapped it shut again,

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Speaker 1: but then he would have had broken mounds. Yeah, Okay,

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Speaker 1: we're sorry, we're theorizing. But anyway, I've seen no documentation.

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Speaker 1: I've tried to find something. You would think that he would.

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Speaker 1: He would write down the call numbers or whatever they

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Speaker 1: are on the side of the diver, if you think

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Speaker 1: he would have done that, But I don't. I don't

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Speaker 1: see that he did. He's basically said he found a plane,

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Speaker 1: and everybody thinks that this gives this plane, but nobody

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Speaker 1: knows exactly for sure why he didn't market with the booty.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, although he doesn't remember either where it is.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure you could go back and search

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Speaker 1: and find it somehow. It's just probably ways to find

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Speaker 1: and they probably should try to figure this out. It

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Speaker 1: would be they're never really going to solve the mystery

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Speaker 1: until they find that airplane. Even then they probably won't,

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Speaker 1: but you know, there might be a clue in there.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, years go by, then again, a lot of

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Speaker 1: people are assuming, but nobody knows for sure that that's

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Speaker 1: just plane. But an early two thousand floor two thousand

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Speaker 1: four or three Royal Navy minesweepers were up doing stuff

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Speaker 1: off the coast of Open again and they found the

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Speaker 1: wreckage of a plane about a mile off of Open.

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Speaker 1: So that sort of supports the divers location as being

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Speaker 1: a mile off of Open unless it's a different wreck

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Speaker 1: and there's no reason it couldn't be a different ren.

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Speaker 1: I was gonna say it could be any plane. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that set out of speculation in the papers that they

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Speaker 1: thought this might be Gibbs as plane that the rf

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Speaker 1: IT found. They said that they found a submersible of

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Speaker 1: cameras down there and stuff like that to get pictures

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Speaker 1: of it. And they analyzed it, investigated, and they figured

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Speaker 1: out that the recage they found was a Catalan a

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Speaker 1: flying boat. Familiar with those things, those amphibious planes, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're they're kind of they're kind of big, and they've

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Speaker 1: got the bottom of the hull is shaped almost like

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Speaker 1: a boat, and then they've got overhead wings. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: except for without the pontoons, right, yeah, I doesn't have

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Speaker 1: the because like a normal seaplane would have like the

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Speaker 1: pontoons instead of like wheels, and they just like take

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Speaker 1: off and land that way. These are more like boat planes.

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Speaker 1: They still have small pontoons, right, but it's not the same. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's not like you know when you see to be

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Speaker 1: right right, Yeah, yeah, it's probably it's probably nice to

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Speaker 1: have some pontoon, you sort of floaty thing out there,

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Speaker 1: just in case a wave catches you on the side. Yeah, yeah,

336
00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:35,159
Speaker 1: but they'd be on the wings, not on like legs

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Speaker 1: below the plane where running gears supposed to be running gear.

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Speaker 1: Thank you planes, not your No. So this rect was

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00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:51,200
Speaker 1: a disappointment, Yeah, unfortunately. Um so the location is still

340
00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:54,520
Speaker 1: a mystery, and who knows, maybe the plane didn't even crash.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's possible, yeah maybe he just but I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to theorize about this yet. We'll talk about

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Speaker 1: that later. Uh. There have been two two books are

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Speaker 1: written about this, The Great Mall Air Mystery by Scott McCadam,

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Speaker 1: whose name actually is David Howitt, the co owner of

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Speaker 1: the hotel. So he was ghostwriting, yeah he was, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: maybe maybe he was afraid that if the book came

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Speaker 1: out and turn out to be really lame, and all

349
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Speaker 1: everybody would make fun of him, so he was a name.

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Speaker 1: And the other book is fictionalized account to the whole

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Speaker 1: thing called These Demented Lands by Alan Warner, who lives

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Speaker 1: in Oben. I remember seeing the cover of that, at

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Speaker 1: least the cover of the one that I saw. I

354
00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:38,200
Speaker 1: had a really cool cover. All Right, you're ready to

355
00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:42,879
Speaker 1: swing in to the theories, Okay, alright, good enough. So

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Speaker 1: I've got several theories here. One is that the plane

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Speaker 1: crash into the sound of Mall and he managed to

358
00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:52,639
Speaker 1: escape and swim to shore. And once he was on shore,

359
00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:56,119
Speaker 1: he could have from where he was at he could

360
00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:58,919
Speaker 1: have walked to the road, made a right turn and

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00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:01,520
Speaker 1: walked down the road a little waste to the hotel.

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Speaker 1: Wasn't that far? This is This is based on if

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Speaker 1: he crashed a mile out to see from the airfield,

364
00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:14,120
Speaker 1: not if he crashed near open correct. Yeah, okay, yeah,

365
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Speaker 1: Well it's it's conceivable even that. I don't know how

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Speaker 1: well assessment one fifty flies without a pilot in it.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how far it would have gone. It's

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Speaker 1: conceivable he didn't crash a mile out. Maybe he bailed

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Speaker 1: closer to shore and the plane went out and then

370
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:32,320
Speaker 1: crashed further out. I could see that. Yeah, but the

371
00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:36,720
Speaker 1: plane crashed, he manages to escape somehow, and apparently the

372
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Speaker 1: windshield was broken, so he maybe swam out through that then,

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Speaker 1: because since the doors were locked, I can't imagine he'd

374
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Speaker 1: swim out from a sinking plane and turn around and

375
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Speaker 1: shut the door. No, but I couldn't the water pressure

376
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,199
Speaker 1: have shut the door. I mean it's possible, you know.

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00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:54,679
Speaker 1: And the other thing to keep in mind is that

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00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:58,640
Speaker 1: the plane wasn't even like maybe discovered until like ten

379
00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:00,679
Speaker 1: years later. Right, maybe it was and fish shot, So

380
00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:02,840
Speaker 1: it's always a little bit. It's always possible, you know,

381
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Speaker 1: that the currents are when it tumbles to the bottom

382
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:07,840
Speaker 1: and the wings are snapping off, because the wings were

383
00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:11,240
Speaker 1: snapped off in the the one that was found that

384
00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:15,240
Speaker 1: I said, the wings were broke off, So I could

385
00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:19,639
Speaker 1: see conceivably, if the plane goes down and it tumbles

386
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:23,199
Speaker 1: across the surface of the water and the door is

387
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:27,560
Speaker 1: not latched, it's probably going to get slam shut. And

388
00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:31,720
Speaker 1: even if it came down gently, I could see as

389
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,640
Speaker 1: it sinks and it hits the bottom, if it happens

390
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:38,480
Speaker 1: to land, right, I mean, this is circumstantial, and god

391
00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:40,800
Speaker 1: knows if we're even on the right track here, but

392
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:45,120
Speaker 1: we don't even know that this actually gives us plane right. Yeah,

393
00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:48,119
Speaker 1: but it is possible that an open door can be shut.

394
00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:52,000
Speaker 1: So he swims the shore. Once he's on shore, he

395
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:56,720
Speaker 1: apparently maybe had hypothermy. In fact, it probably did swim

396
00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,760
Speaker 1: through that icy cold water. So he gets to the

397
00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,960
Speaker 1: or and gets confused because all he needs to do

398
00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:04,800
Speaker 1: is walk up to the road, make a right turn,

399
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:07,040
Speaker 1: like I said, go down to the hotel, and he's

400
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,920
Speaker 1: home free. Instead he wanders up the hillside and then

401
00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:15,240
Speaker 1: just probably got overcome with hypothermia and died of exposure.

402
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,120
Speaker 1: That's one possibility. The reason is not to like this,

403
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:21,200
Speaker 1: is it again to know salt water that we mentioned

404
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:26,159
Speaker 1: potentially could have been washed off, but probably not, probably not.

405
00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:28,000
Speaker 1: The other reason I don't like it is he was

406
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,600
Speaker 1: that he was wearing his clothes and his boots. Because

407
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,440
Speaker 1: if you guys ever tried swimming with clothes on and water,

408
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:39,360
Speaker 1: especially shoes. Oh yeah, So I mean that's the first

409
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,520
Speaker 1: thing to do, is you cut your clothes off, take

410
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:43,439
Speaker 1: your clothes off, whatever you do, you got to they

411
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,359
Speaker 1: put they waste so much and they put so much

412
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:47,720
Speaker 1: drag on you. So that's the other reason I don't

413
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,439
Speaker 1: like this. There that this idea that he crashed and

414
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,520
Speaker 1: got out of the plane and swim shore. The next

415
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:55,840
Speaker 1: theory is that he bailed out of the plane over

416
00:21:55,960 --> 00:22:00,520
Speaker 1: water and swim to shore. Felicity Granger did that before

417
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:01,840
Speaker 1: he left on a slide. He said that the things

418
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,480
Speaker 1: went south, he would just throttle the plane way back

419
00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:06,920
Speaker 1: and just open the door and bail out. That's what

420
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,280
Speaker 1: he told her, and maybe that's what he did. But

421
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:11,840
Speaker 1: of course the reasons not to like this theory is

422
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:17,720
Speaker 1: the same as above. Stall salt water and yeah, and

423
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,640
Speaker 1: also I checked the stall speed for Assessa forty eight

424
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:22,280
Speaker 1: miles an hour, and I'm not sure how easy it

425
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:25,000
Speaker 1: would be to open the door forty eight hour. So

426
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:27,560
Speaker 1: this is the point where I geeked out a little bit,

427
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:33,800
Speaker 1: because he was in a Cessna F one fifty h

428
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,399
Speaker 1: I think was the model. I think that was the

429
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:40,840
Speaker 1: newest model. And I started reading through the changes that

430
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:44,840
Speaker 1: they had done to the planes in ten years, looking

431
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 1: specifically at like the doors and all of that, and

432
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 1: the doors had they had upgraded him to a simple

433
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,440
Speaker 1: latch handle, much like you would see in a car

434
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:59,080
Speaker 1: that's the seventies model, you know, the inside doors, they're

435
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:01,720
Speaker 1: just a simple her rather than anything that's a little

436
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,960
Speaker 1: more difficult to get your hand on. But the other

437
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:09,199
Speaker 1: thing that they did, because Cessnas are so small, is

438
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:13,480
Speaker 1: they added three inches of shoulder room to the door

439
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 1: for the pilot and the co pilot whoever's in the

440
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:21,720
Speaker 1: passenger seat. So I got the impression and I could

441
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 1: never really see an easy profile, but I think we've

442
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,640
Speaker 1: all seen pictures of Cessna's and when you look at

443
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:32,160
Speaker 1: them dead on, they're not flat on the sides. They

444
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 1: kind of flare out at the top a little bit,

445
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. They're kind of a V shape.

446
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,639
Speaker 1: So I could see and I'm not nuts about this theory,

447
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 1: but I went down this road anyway. If he's getting

448
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,400
Speaker 1: close to a stall speed, you know, this fifty mile

449
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 1: an hour threshold, it is possible in my mind, not easy,

450
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 1: but possible too because he's got that leverage room now

451
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 1: because the door is kind of cammered over to be

452
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 1: able to push it. And that's one of those things

453
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 1: to me that once the once he gets it far

454
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 1: enough and the wind starts pulling in through that gap.

455
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 1: It's gonna help him. That air pressure that's rushing into

456
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 1: the cabin, to me, would help pull that door aid

457
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 1: you and pushing so you're not pushing against all of

458
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,439
Speaker 1: the wind because the oncoming wind is now rushing in

459
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:28,680
Speaker 1: and rushing out that gap you've created. It's it's not perfect.

460
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 1: I don't think that's a perfect theory, but I see

461
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:35,119
Speaker 1: how it's potentially plausible. Yeah, I think it would be hard.

462
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 1: It'd be hard, but if you're determined enough and desperate enough,

463
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 1: you can probably do. The Other thing that makes me

464
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 1: wonder about that is when you start pushing, and so

465
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 1: you're going out the left hand side, you're sitting on

466
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 1: the left hand side. When you start pushing that door out,

467
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 1: what's the plane gonna do? It's gonna start making a

468
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,640
Speaker 1: left turn right? Yeah? Yeah, I mean I go. Of course,

469
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 1: at this point you're abandoning ships, so maybe you don't care.

470
00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:00,360
Speaker 1: I don't. There's an experienced pilot and actually find that, Well,

471
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:02,640
Speaker 1: how bad is this gonna be? Is it just gonna

472
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,120
Speaker 1: slowly start turning? Laughter? Is it just suddenly gonna start

473
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,440
Speaker 1: like whipping around laft going to a stall and then

474
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 1: just starts, you know, spinning madly down to the earth.

475
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 1: And we do we know if he if the plane

476
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 1: was equipped with the parachute as far as I know,

477
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 1: and it didn't have a parachute in And I don't

478
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 1: think those planes are pretty small. I know. That's that's

479
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 1: why I was asking is I didn't think that would

480
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 1: be something that you would standard have in assessina. But

481
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,119
Speaker 1: you know, he's he's x RF. He may you know,

482
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,440
Speaker 1: he may have insisted on something and I never saw

483
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 1: anything about that. But he rented it. I think they

484
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,239
Speaker 1: would have mentioned that's right, he didn't. It wasn't his

485
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 1: personal plain. Yeah, another fun fact about him. Yeah, you

486
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 1: know his flying license wasn't valid. I know it expired.

487
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 1: Was flying with a suspended license. Yeah, the cops were

488
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:56,120
Speaker 1: going to pull him over, Yeah, go to his grave

489
00:25:56,160 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 1: side and run him a ticket. I don't see that happening. Yeah,

490
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 1: I don't think so. So bailing out, bailing out of

491
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 1: the plane over the water, No, I don't. I don't know.

492
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 1: It doesn't really cut the mustard from me. Now, So

493
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,639
Speaker 1: next theory is that he bailed out of the plane

494
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 1: over land. I kind of like this theory. Yeah, it's

495
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 1: bails out the plane just goes on and crashes in

496
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 1: the water somewhere, because obviously they never found the wreckage

497
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: on the land. So let's say he bails out and

498
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 1: as he hits the ground, he's knocked unconscious and before

499
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 1: we can regain caustiousness, he's overcome by by hypothermia and exposure.

500
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 1: But he didn't have serious injury, I guess my serious injuries.

501
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,199
Speaker 1: My thought is that perhaps, you know, he could have

502
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 1: bailed out, like if he was having a hard time

503
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 1: getting altitude for whatever reason or when he took off,

504
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 1: Like nobody really says like what happened immediately after he

505
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 1: took off, but maybe he like was miss gaging because

506
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 1: it was dark and all that. You know, maybe he

507
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:54,200
Speaker 1: was miss gauging and he was he found himself very

508
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: close to the ground and you know, about to crash

509
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,399
Speaker 1: or whatever for whatever reason. So he bailed all doubt,

510
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,239
Speaker 1: but he was a little confused. I mean, you know,

511
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:05,199
Speaker 1: you don't have to have a serious injury to like

512
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,439
Speaker 1: become confused and disoriented after something like that. So if

513
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,479
Speaker 1: he bailed out close to the ocean, turned around and said, oh,

514
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:13,879
Speaker 1: I'll just walk back to the hotel, you know, his

515
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 1: gash on his leg because he hit it when he

516
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 1: jumped out, So he starts trying to walk back to

517
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 1: the hotel, and then his overcome by exposure because it's

518
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 1: leading horribly. He dies on the mountaintop where he thought

519
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,640
Speaker 1: he was supposed to be for whatever reason, and then

520
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,440
Speaker 1: the plane continues on and crashes into the sea. That's

521
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 1: my theory, and I can dovetail right off of that,

522
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 1: because that doesn't exactly explain what happened to the assessment itself.

523
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:41,920
Speaker 1: But if you go and you look at the map

524
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 1: of this area, there's a pretty decent sized road there,

525
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:51,959
Speaker 1: so it is possible that he could have landed on

526
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 1: the road. So nobody saw him come back to the airport,

527
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:59,880
Speaker 1: but he could have landed on the road. Okay, we're

528
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,200
Speaker 1: still saying that he's you know, he's he's injured himself somehow,

529
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 1: he's disoriented and he just steps out of the plane.

530
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 1: He didn't turn it off, and it's a big storm.

531
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 1: It will keep the truck forward. And that road is

532
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 1: pretty close to the edge of the coastline. I don't

533
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 1: know if it's that close. Well, I mean it's close enough.

534
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 1: And you know, an airplane if you leave it at

535
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:25,159
Speaker 1: a decent, a decent RPM, it'll keep walking forward and

536
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 1: eventually drive itself right into the water. Seems like somebody

537
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 1: would have noticed it wouldn't go very far. But if it's,

538
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 1: But if it's, if the doors are closed and it's

539
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 1: covered in ice and it hits the water, it's not

540
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: gonna sink super fast. We've got a crazy windstorm going on.

541
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 1: It's possible that it got drug out to see I mean,

542
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 1: and and this is that we're operating under the presumption

543
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 1: that this wreck that was supposedly found is real. I

544
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 1: mean again, this is we're pulling this out of nowhere.

545
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 1: But I'm just saying it's I think it what Devon

546
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 1: came up with. This entirely possible that he failed close

547
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 1: to land and then you know, I think it probably stayed.

548
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 1: I don't think he probably landed. I think it probably

549
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: probably bailed for whatever reason. Maybe it was getting icy

550
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 1: and he realized, like crap, I can't actually keep flying.

551
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 1: I'm going to take it as close as I can

552
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: to the ground and then bail. Yeah, and it just

553
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 1: you know, he would he would have been a lot

554
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 1: better off bailing over water. And I'll tell you, why

555
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 1: did you go? I did you go on Google street

556
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 1: View and look at the island or stare at you know?

557
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 1: Well I did. I drove up down this road a

558
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 1: little bit, the hotel and everything, and I looked at

559
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 1: the countryside and there are a lot of rock outcroppings

560
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 1: there everywhere in this island. So bailing over land really

561
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: bad idea. I mean, if you have a nice smooth meadow, maybe,

562
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 1: but if you're gonna smash your you're gonna smash yourself

563
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: to pieces on it. Well, he couldn't ran it right. Well,

564
00:29:57,800 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 1: he's been he's been hanging out there and he knows

565
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 1: what the countryside looks. You know, there's a lot of

566
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 1: rocks sticking out of the ground. Yeah, I don't know, man,

567
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think that jumping out over the land

568
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 1: would have been the like the worst I since New Coke.

569
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 1: There's another popular theory out there. You guys have probably

570
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:18,440
Speaker 1: seen seen this one. Peter Gibbs was an m I

571
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 1: five agents. Yeah, I'm sorry. Maybe he was. I don't know.

572
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't see any evidence of that, but

573
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: he was doing cloak and dagger stuff in Northern Ireland.

574
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 1: Perhaps Northern Ireland is actually not that far away from mole.

575
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 1: So if he jumped in the plane and at the

576
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 1: at the air speed of assessment one fifty, he could

577
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 1: be in northern Ireland and I don't know what forty

578
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 1: five minutes. It would also explain why he was like, oh,

579
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 1: you know what I'm gonna do right now, leave my

580
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 1: girlfriend and go on an airplane trip in the middle

581
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 1: of the night. Yeah, after some wine. And it's gross

582
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 1: out because that's great cover. Well, I mean it's a

583
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 1: it's a cover. You do what you're assigned to do

584
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 1: and trying to maintain your cover. Yeah, so anyway, that's

585
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 1: that's so he got over there. But when the sires

586
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 1: the sere goes, his cover was blown. The IRA murdered him,

587
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: and he brought his body back and dumped it on

588
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 1: the hillside to send a message, and the plane was

589
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 1: never found and the plane was never found. Maybe, and

590
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 1: this is not plausible, I mean, you know, it's a

591
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 1: if the IRA had murdered him, I doubt that they

592
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 1: would have taken the trouble to bring his body back

593
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 1: to mall. But what if he flew Okay, wait, dovetailing

594
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 1: on theories here. He flew and he picked somebody up

595
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 1: and they went to have their clandestine meeting in the graveyard,

596
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 1: or maybe it was the owner who like was like, oh,

597
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:41,959
Speaker 1: I'm worried about him, so I'm gonna go to this

598
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 1: one random place, the graveyard, because that makes sense. And

599
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 1: they met, they had some something, right, they met, and

600
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 1: the somebody else took the airplane and flewed away, and

601
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: they knocked him over the head, knocked Gibbs right, his

602
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 1: kids we've been talking about, got knocked him over the

603
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: head and sent him wandering, and he wandered up the

604
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 1: hill and passed out. And you don't again, you don't

605
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 1: have to have that serious and injury to like pass out.

606
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 1: That lends credence to the why we're both flashlights moving

607
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 1: at the same time, because there was that third person. Yeah,

608
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 1: there was a third person. Maybe there was another person

609
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 1: in the plane, and you know, they pushed Gibbs out

610
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 1: at a low altitude and went on or you know whatever. Well,

611
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 1: that's that's what I was going to get to, is

612
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 1: my next theory, which is that he never got into

613
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 1: plane to begin with. Let's say he was involved with

614
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 1: m I five and anything. Let's say M I five

615
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 1: needs to um as quiet and discreet away as possible

616
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 1: get to somewhere, we'll send Northern Ireland and x Field

617
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 1: trade one of their guys bring him back home. So

618
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 1: this is a two seater plane. And so what they

619
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 1: did is they just had Gibbs positioned himself at this

620
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 1: place which is commediately located not too far from Northern Ireland,

621
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 1: with a plane. And that way the guy who's going

622
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 1: to fly the plane to Northern Ireland, collect the cargo

623
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 1: bring it back, is he just he could just drive

624
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 1: out there. He's not seen getting out a plane or

625
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 1: anything like that. He just you know, takes off and

626
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 1: heads the ball and quietly meets up with GiB Gets.

627
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 1: The airplane takes off and unfortunately doesn't come back. So

628
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 1: this puts gives and kind of a pickle because he's outside.

629
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 1: You can't go back inside the hotel because he's supposed

630
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 1: to be in the plane. Sure, and your idea of

631
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 1: somebody knocking him over the head as plausible. That's occurred

632
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 1: to me that perhaps that happened there was yet other

633
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 1: people hanging around. But another possibility is that he had

634
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 1: some time to kill so he decided to go for

635
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 1: a little hike and in the middle of the night. Yeah,

636
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 1: not much else to do this, so he decided to, like,

637
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 1: you know, hike up the hillside. And maybe he went

638
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 1: up the hillside to see if he can catch sight

639
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 1: of the plane coming back. I don't know. I just

640
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 1: you know, it's still the thing that like a little

641
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 1: outlining to me continues to be the fact that the

642
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 1: inn owner or the hotel owner was like, oh, I

643
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:54,719
Speaker 1: was worried about him, so I went to the graveyard,

644
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 1: Like was it a particularly open meadow area where somebody

645
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 1: might make an emergency landing? Like was there something special

646
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 1: about the graveyard that made him say this is a

647
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:07,479
Speaker 1: reasonable place to go? Or is it that you know,

648
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 1: Gibbs was there or he knew something about something. I mean,

649
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 1: you know, Gibbs was found close to that area, Like, well,

650
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 1: I don't know that if you look at it on

651
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 1: street view again, I drove past the graveyard, and it

652
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 1: does have a nice clear, unobstructive view of the sound,

653
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 1: isn't it. It's not real high, but it's a bit,

654
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 1: but it's a little bit higher than most of the

655
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: ground around it, Yeah, a little bit. And and so

656
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 1: you know, he maybe his thinking was it he'd have

657
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 1: a better view from out there. I mean if he

658
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,800
Speaker 1: wanted to covertly meet with Gibbs. I mean, if he

659
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:41,880
Speaker 1: could just talk to him, chat with him at the hotel.

660
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 1: He didn't really need to do that. Yeah, you couldn't

661
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 1: knock him off at the hotel though, done. No, that's true. Yeah,

662
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 1: back to my theory that he he was not actually

663
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:58,320
Speaker 1: in the plane. He goes for a hike and you know,

664
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 1: remember you got a three inch laceration on his left

665
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:04,359
Speaker 1: shin he fell tripped perhaps, you know, and it could

666
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:06,760
Speaker 1: be just an amazing coincidence. The guy on the plane

667
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:10,240
Speaker 1: had a terrible run of luck and wind up crashing

668
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 1: because of the sleeve storm. And then Gibbs was out

669
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,440
Speaker 1: there just wandering around wondering how he Who's going to

670
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 1: explain this when he gets back to the hotel and uh,

671
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 1: and then he trips over one of those rock outcroppings

672
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 1: I was just talking about, hits his head and immediately,

673
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 1: you know, there's unconscious for a while and dies of exposure.

674
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:30,319
Speaker 1: It could so it could be just something like that,

675
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 1: or the guy doesn't crash, you know, like maybe the

676
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 1: guy doesn't crash, but he's unsuccessed. You know, there are

677
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 1: lots of things that could have happened to the pilot

678
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:41,439
Speaker 1: if there was another the third person pilot, Yeah, maybe

679
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 1: he didn't crash, Maybe he just abscounded with the plane. Yeah.

680
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 1: I guess that theory would mean that his girlfriend would

681
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 1: have had to be in on it too. Yeah, that's

682
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:51,839
Speaker 1: the that's the problem I'm having a hard time with

683
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:56,239
Speaker 1: is that she would also have to be an agent. Yeah.

684
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:58,279
Speaker 1: Now another possibility, if you want to look at it

685
00:35:58,320 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 1: this way, Yes, if she's in on the whole thing.

686
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:05,240
Speaker 1: And another possibility is that this was a super super

687
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 1: secret operation. List but let's presume, right, okay, because there

688
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,359
Speaker 1: was this run of bad luck because the plane took

689
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 1: off and didn't come back, that means that Gibbs is

690
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 1: supposed to be dead. And no, she doesn't kill him.

691
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 1: But what happens is gives gives him her phone phone,

692
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 1: M I M I fiber or in my six or

693
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 1: whatever whoever their handlers and they just say, hey, look,

694
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 1: we're in a bit of a pickle here. If I

695
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 1: confess that I was not in that plane we were blowing,

696
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 1: we're going to blow the secret operation. So you guys

697
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 1: need to find me a new identity and come up

698
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,479
Speaker 1: with the corpse that we can plant somewhere. That's true,

699
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 1: although and again, but that doesn't really make sense either,

700
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 1: don't you think about it, Because if the plane disappeared

701
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 1: and crashed at sea, they don't really need a corpse,

702
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 1: so it probably was his corpse. You know. Well, I

703
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,879
Speaker 1: mean that's that's man, we're really getting off track here.

704
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 1: That's that's presuming that the plane did crash and that

705
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 1: whoever took off didn't change their mind or double cross

706
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 1: and get murdered by somebody at the other end of

707
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 1: the flight. Yeah. Yeah, I mean you know that. I mean,

708
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,839
Speaker 1: that's that's presuming all of that. So it could be

709
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 1: that they realize, uh, Billy has just turned to the

710
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 1: other team and it's just totally hosed us here. What

711
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:22,399
Speaker 1: do we do? The one thing that's the and I

712
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 1: like the idea of dumping a body, of planting replacement body.

713
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 1: What gives that a little bit of teeth for me

714
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 1: is that when they searched for him and everybody was

715
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 1: out and about, they were searching right near work right there.

716
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 1: It's now it's possible that they were not looking for

717
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:46,360
Speaker 1: a body. They were looking for areage. Yeah, but you

718
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 1: see a body. I mean, it doesn't seem like, I mean,

719
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,880
Speaker 1: it doesn't seem like this place is so gigantic that like,

720
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:54,760
Speaker 1: you know, you don't also notice that there's a dead body.

721
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:59,280
Speaker 1: But the thing about it that's sense it is wreckage.

722
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 1: It's a it's a fairly large item. You don't need

723
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 1: to like, you know, line up, line up in a

724
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 1: file five ft apart stuff. So yeah, and I don't know,

725
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 1: I don't know what. You could probably stand an entire

726
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 1: hillside from the road, and so, you know, I don't

727
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 1: know how close he got to where his body was.

728
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:16,800
Speaker 1: All right, I'm liking somebody did come back in a

729
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 1: later day and put the body there. I don't, I don't.

730
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:20,839
Speaker 1: I don't know why you'd go to the trouble maybe

731
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 1: like maybe why not? Yeah, who knows. Gosh, this is

732
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 1: a big home mystery. And this is one of the

733
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:27,279
Speaker 1: first times I think that Joe's don a mystery that

734
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:31,359
Speaker 1: he has not claimed to solve. I think that, Well,

735
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,879
Speaker 1: it's because it was had that crazy twist he didn't

736
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 1: want anybody to throw the iPod down. Yeah, exactly that.

737
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 1: You gotta admit that was a pretty good twist. It's

738
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 1: real good, really good. Yeah. Yeah, and it's still a

739
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 1: puzzler to those people out there, I'm still puzzling the

740
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 1: heck out of me. Yea, I am considering that that.

741
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 1: I don't think he crashed the plane and climbed out

742
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:54,799
Speaker 1: and swam. I don't think he'd be able to over water.

743
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 1: I don't think he'd be able to over land. I

744
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:58,759
Speaker 1: don't think he was an m I five agents. I

745
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 1: think that my theory that somebody else took off with

746
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 1: his plane is probably more plausible than any of those theories.

747
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:11,760
Speaker 1: Really failing thing is just no, it's it's really really screwy.

748
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 1: He just didn't have enough injuries. I mean, like you

749
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 1: get injuries from like the most mundane things. I mean,

750
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,880
Speaker 1: you know you can I don't know, twist and ankle

751
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:23,279
Speaker 1: because you've walked weird on a path. I mean, when

752
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:25,919
Speaker 1: you jump out of an airplane, you're gonna have injuries. Well, yeah,

753
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 1: that's like let's assume you get it down to like, say,

754
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 1: fifty ft off the ground. Even that like kill you.

755
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 1: But also remember if he's thrawled back to to stall speed,

756
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 1: he's going about fifty horizontally. Also, he's going to be

757
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:43,399
Speaker 1: bouncing enough, but just bouncing down the road for a while. Yeah,

758
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,879
Speaker 1: I mean, and even even on the water, you're gonna

759
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 1: be skipping like a stone over the water. It's gonna

760
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 1: hurt well, And we need to we can't avoid the

761
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 1: fact that, yes, there are stories of people who have

762
00:39:55,640 --> 00:40:02,279
Speaker 1: bailed out of planes and survived basically unscathed. But normally

763
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 1: they bailed out and they landed on an incline that

764
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 1: had some kind of soft surface snow or whatever it is,

765
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 1: and they slid for a while, so they burned that

766
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 1: kinetic energy. They didn't just land flat. Yeah, and there's

767
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 1: something to be said for like soft tissue, Like if

768
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:20,759
Speaker 1: you live through something like that, you're like, oh, I'm

769
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 1: basically unscathed with like so much muscle damage therapy for

770
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 1: like you know, five years or whatever. And that sort

771
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:32,359
Speaker 1: of stuff shows up on autopsies just as much as

772
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:34,759
Speaker 1: you know, broken bones and things like that. So they

773
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 1: would have said, like, yeah, like he didn't have any

774
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:40,839
Speaker 1: broken bones, but his back was real messed up, like

775
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 1: you noticed after four months. Will that be as obvious

776
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 1: when the critters are using him for he assume so,

777
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:50,360
Speaker 1: I assume, so, I think so. But I think that

778
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 1: if he had if he'd bailed to said with your theory,

779
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 1: he bails, figuring that he'll get a softer landing if

780
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 1: he's going out to sea, and so when he hits

781
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:02,239
Speaker 1: the ground, the ground is sloping down away from him

782
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 1: and the problem, and and that I thought that occurred

783
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 1: to me that would be would be one way to

784
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 1: solve or to yeah, one way to sort of like

785
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 1: mitigate the whole issue. But um, the problem is you

786
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:16,279
Speaker 1: still going to roll for a while. And he is

787
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 1: absolutely guaranteed in that countryside to hit at least one

788
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:25,840
Speaker 1: rock out cropping. It only takes one. Yeah, it yeah,

789
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,360
Speaker 1: it's it's pretty much guaranteed. So yeah, I think he

790
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 1: wasn't in the plane, and uh, because it could be

791
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 1: that he was just hanging out somebody killed him, or

792
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 1: or he just had an accident and just coincidentally died.

793
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 1: I mean, I just don't know any way. You guys

794
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:44,400
Speaker 1: having more theories, No, I think we've gone through just

795
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 1: about every possible theory, yeah, and the impossible. And yeah,

796
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 1: I don't another way ever going to know the answer

797
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,880
Speaker 1: to this one. But it's an interesting little story, you

798
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,719
Speaker 1: gotta admit. So that's it for this week, folks. Um

799
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:00,759
Speaker 1: find us you can actually find our episode odes and

800
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 1: all sorts of other fun material on our website, which

801
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 1: is Thinking Sideways podcast dot com. We're on Gmail if

802
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 1: you want to send us an email, and a lot

803
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:12,279
Speaker 1: of people do find us and email us at Thinking

804
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 1: Sideways Podcast at gmail dot com. You can also find

805
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,359
Speaker 1: us on Facebook, so find us, friend us, like us,

806
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:21,759
Speaker 1: and we have a group out there too. If you're

807
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:23,880
Speaker 1: if you're listening to us on Stitcher, well you're probably

808
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:26,280
Speaker 1: not hearing this because it is still truck hating our episodes.

809
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 1: I think I think we've gotten to the bottom what

810
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 1: was going on? Okay, good apologies, folks, but it's not

811
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:36,440
Speaker 1: our faultest stitchers fault. But you can stream us on Stitcher.

812
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:40,320
Speaker 1: You can also find us on Twitter, where our handle

813
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 1: is thinking Sideways, not thinking but thinking sideways. You can

814
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 1: also find us on iTunes. Probably found us on iTunes,

815
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 1: if you probably did find us on iTunes. If you're

816
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:52,320
Speaker 1: on iTunes and you're downloading our stuff off of iTunes,

817
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 1: that's great, but it would be great if you could

818
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 1: stop and leave us a comment and rating. We really

819
00:42:57,080 --> 00:42:59,799
Speaker 1: like those. No keep downloading, but also also keeping out

820
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:03,800
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, sorry, I didn't you know what I mean? Okay,

821
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:08,239
Speaker 1: And that's it any last serious from you, guys. No good.

822
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:11,760
Speaker 1: I'm out. Well, okay, I am out too, So alright, folks,

823
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 1: So for Thinking Sideways podcast. We'll talk to you next week.

824
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 1: We'll talk to you next week. Yeah. Bye,