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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Daybreak Asia podcast. I'm Doug Chrisner,

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Speaker 1: and in a moment we'll be looking ahead to tomorrow's

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Speaker 1: report on US retail inflation with William Lee. He is

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Speaker 1: the chief economist at the Milken Institute. But first we

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Speaker 1: go to Washington, where President Biden is planning to block

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Speaker 1: the sale of US deal to Japan's kneepon steal on

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Speaker 1: national security grounds. For a closer look, let's bring in

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg's Josh Wingrove. He covers the White House and politics

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Speaker 1: for US. Josh, it's always a pleasure. Thanks for taking time.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure it's been a busy day for you. From

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Speaker 1: what I understand, this deal has been under review for

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Speaker 1: much of the last year by the Committee on Foreign

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Speaker 1: Investment in the US known as SYPHIUS. Do we know

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Speaker 1: now whether the President's stance on this deal is aligned

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Speaker 1: with what Sophius is likely to decide or is there

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Speaker 1: a little bit of difference here?

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Speaker 2: It's TBD and this thing has been a saga for month,

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Speaker 2: nearly a year into this and it began, of course

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Speaker 2: with this with this offer fifty five dollars to share

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Speaker 2: and ouce last December and Biden pretty quickly signaled his

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Speaker 2: opposition to it. Trump has since, of course, pledged to

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Speaker 2: kill it as well. And what we are reporting today

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Speaker 2: is that Biden essentially hasn't changed his mind. There was

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Speaker 2: a delay in September, sort of a procedural maneuver that

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Speaker 2: punted this thing passed the election. Of course, cover of politics,

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Speaker 2: things change after, you never know, and so that sort

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Speaker 2: of fueled a lot of questions as to where things stood,

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Speaker 2: what you know, what the process was, and where things

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Speaker 2: were going to end up. And our reporting here is

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Speaker 2: sort of threefold in this latest story. One is that

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Speaker 2: Biden still plans to block it once it reaches his

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Speaker 2: desk from this review, and I'll get into the mechanics

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Speaker 2: of that in a second if you'd like me to. Two,

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Speaker 2: that is unlikely that there would be another extension or

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Speaker 2: pull in refile maneuver as there was in September. In

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Speaker 2: other words, this won't get punted to Trump, is what

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Speaker 2: some of our sources are telling us. And number three

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Speaker 2: that it looks like this is headed for some kind

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Speaker 2: of litigation and there have been warning signs about that,

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Speaker 2: with Republican lawmakers last month writing to Commerce Secretary Jane

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Speaker 2: Ramondo Treasury Secretary Janney Yellen saying, hey, make sure you

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Speaker 2: preserve documents because we worry there's sort of a political

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Speaker 2: thumb on the scale here. I'm paraphrasing, but not too

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Speaker 2: much in terms of what their letters said. So that's

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Speaker 2: the latest on this, of course. So you have both presidents,

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Speaker 2: you know, pledging to varying degree to block it. Biden

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Speaker 2: has never publicly said, hey, I'm going to block this

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Speaker 2: thing full stop. What he said is that it will

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Speaker 2: remain domestically owned guaranteed, and that is, of course a

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Speaker 2: pretty strong signal where he lands. Trump says over and over,

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Speaker 2: including as recently as last week, that he'll block it

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Speaker 2: if it's still an active file once he takes office

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Speaker 2: next month.

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Speaker 1: So before we get to the issue of litigation, I'm

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Speaker 1: wondering whether there's any room for negotiation. Yesterday we learned

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Speaker 1: that Nippon made a final push, essentially, and the company

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Speaker 1: released a letter that was sent to US Steel. This

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Speaker 1: was done, I guess, after meeting with union leaders, and

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Speaker 1: it makes the one point four billion dollar commitment for

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Speaker 1: capital expenditures legally binding. Does that do anything at all

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Speaker 1: to try to create maybe a deal that could survive.

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Speaker 2: Well, some people are trying to get to some sort

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Speaker 2: of agreement. And one interesting thing about that letter, which

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Speaker 2: is great that you raise it, is that Governor Josh Shapiro,

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Speaker 2: a Democrat of Pennsylvania where so much of this has

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Speaker 2: sort of popped off, was involved in sort of helping

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Speaker 2: facilitate those talks. Shapiro has stayed publicly neutral, even as

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Speaker 2: other Pennsylvania sort of problem in Pennsylvania politicians, including both

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Speaker 2: senators and Biden himself, who of course was born in Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 2: has signaled opposition. So he's trying to find I don't know,

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Speaker 2: call it a third way, you know, but Shapiro seems

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Speaker 2: to be working behind the scenes to see if there's

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Speaker 2: any way to bridge this gap. Now where that lease sings,

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Speaker 2: I think just remains very much unclear. And Nippon Steel

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Speaker 2: also today offered a bonus to US steel workers if

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Speaker 2: this deal goes through. There's been sort of questions about

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Speaker 2: how the rank and file of the union feel about this.

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Speaker 2: Son have gone on records saying they kind of like

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Speaker 2: this deal, which of course is very unusual in the

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Speaker 2: labor movement, whereas the head of the United steel Workers

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Speaker 2: Dave McCall has been the biggest opponent of this from

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Speaker 2: day one, and Biden calls himself, of course, the most

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Speaker 2: pro union president in American history. He feels very strongly

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Speaker 2: about the labor movement, and so McCall and Biden have

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Speaker 2: both sort of been singling opposition. So you know where

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Speaker 2: this ends up. I think, you know, it seems to

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Speaker 2: change over the course of months from here and there.

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Speaker 2: Investors have been making bets here and there. What our

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Speaker 2: reporting today is is that Biden essentially hasn't changed his mind,

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Speaker 2: which by the way, is exactly what he told me

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Speaker 2: when we asked him about it in September, that I

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Speaker 2: haven't changed my mind. Our reporting is if that remains

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Speaker 2: the case nowithstanding the fact that two and a half

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Speaker 2: months or whatever have passed, notwithstanding the fact that we're

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Speaker 2: passed an election, notwithstanding whatever comments President elect Trump has made,

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Speaker 2: and that he intends to block this once it reaches

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Speaker 2: his desk, and that looks like it's going to set

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Speaker 2: off some litigation or legal sight of some kind at

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Speaker 2: that point, as opposed to perhaps, you know, people worrying

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Speaker 2: about another extension or thinking there'd be an extension that

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Speaker 2: would push this into Trump's lap. I should know Republicans

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Speaker 2: were pretty in favor or silent on this deal. There

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Speaker 2: were a handful who were opposed to it, and one

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Speaker 2: of those is Senator Vans of Ohio, who, of course

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Speaker 2: now is the Vice president elect.

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Speaker 1: Interesting. So, Josh, I want you to imagine a world

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Speaker 1: where Nippon and US deal fail in their attempt to

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Speaker 1: litigate the blockage of this merger. What happens to the

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Speaker 1: assets of US steal. What happens to US steal under

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Speaker 1: those circumstances.

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Speaker 2: There's a few things. One is that the company is

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Speaker 2: saying that Nippon Steel's offer it's the best one and

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Speaker 2: the best for the future of steel making. That's why

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Speaker 2: they take they've taken it. And I should note it's

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Speaker 2: not just Nipon Steele it's fighting for this deal to

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Speaker 2: go through. It's US Steel as well. Both a buyer

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Speaker 2: and the seller want this to go through. And so

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Speaker 2: they are threatening, for instance, to relocate their head their

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Speaker 2: head office out of Pittsburgh, which you know, home of

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Speaker 2: the Pittsburgh Steelers. Kind of you very symbolic thing, as

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Speaker 2: well as sort of raising questions about the viability of

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Speaker 2: some of their more long term blast furnaces and facilities,

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Speaker 2: in particular the union run ones, including those in Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 2: so kind of just throws everything up in the air.

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Speaker 2: The question is whether another buyer will emerge, and of

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Speaker 2: course one is Cleveland Cliffs, who had bid but got

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Speaker 2: out bid buy Nipon Steele. They signaled an interest in

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Speaker 2: bidding again, although at a much lower price than they

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Speaker 2: had bid previously, and in particular they want those last

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Speaker 2: as opposed to the entire company. But that might create

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Speaker 2: its own issues. For instance, there have been anti trust

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Speaker 2: questions raised by that, whether consolidating furnaces under one company

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Speaker 2: would be a good thing, whether certain sectors like the

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Speaker 2: auto sector would speak out against that, So that might

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Speaker 2: create sort of a new battle if that were to

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Speaker 2: be the case. Hanging in all this, of course, are

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Speaker 2: the steel workers, who themselves are sort of a political

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Speaker 2: you know background, right. Biden and Trump and later Harris

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Speaker 2: and Trump fought for a support of union workers and

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Speaker 2: blue collar workers more broadly. And when we talk to

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Speaker 2: those workers, they have different views. Some oppose the deal,

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Speaker 2: some support the deal. It's difficult for me to say here,

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Speaker 2: you know, on balance, where they land. Certainly, using leadership

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Speaker 2: is steadfastly against the deal, including the SyncE that meeting

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Speaker 2: and that letter from Nipon Steel yesterday and comments to Reuters.

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Speaker 2: The union had made it clear he's not budging. But

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Speaker 2: when you talk to the sort of rank and file,

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Speaker 2: what they want to know is are their jobs secure?

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Speaker 2: And you know, will they have a future to be

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Speaker 2: a steel worker in Pennsylvania or wherever they live, and

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Speaker 2: will their children you know? And this is important because

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Speaker 2: many even come from multi generational families where they put

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Speaker 2: a big pride and a big point of pride, I

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Speaker 2: should say, of being a steel worker. And that the

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Speaker 2: tough thing is that both sides here kind of say

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Speaker 2: that that the fate of the steel workers is best

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Speaker 2: if their outcome has reached right. Dave McCall, the union president,

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Speaker 2: says that Nipon steelers, they get this proceeds, will sort

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Speaker 2: of slowly starve out or not make guarantees about the

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Speaker 2: future of steelmaking, Whereas, of course Nipon Steel is offering

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Speaker 2: to invest in these facilities, which is at least implicitly

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Speaker 2: a pledge in their longevity and the presence of union

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Speaker 2: steel workers there. But right now it's sort of a

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Speaker 2: battle for hearts and minds among the rank and file,

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Speaker 2: and something that is rolling through the citious process. White

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Speaker 2: House saying that that's sitious process is ongoing, but in

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Speaker 2: their on records even to US, I'll note they also

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Speaker 2: say that the President Biden, that is, the current president,

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Speaker 2: believes it's vital the US deal remained domestically owned and operate.

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Speaker 1: Well, that brings me to the last question before I

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Speaker 1: let you go Japan. Obviously, as a US ally, when

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Speaker 1: you hear the term national security dealing with a friendly nation,

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Speaker 1: does that hold water.

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Speaker 2: It is, at the very least the continuation of let's

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Speaker 2: call a growing definition of what the national security is.

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Speaker 2: Steel has been sort of a new battleground, you know,

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Speaker 2: as opposed to like computer chips or something more high

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Speaker 2: tech in countries determining what is in national security. Trump

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Speaker 2: of course applied tariffs to steal on national security grounds,

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Speaker 2: so this would be a continuation of that. It is

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Speaker 2: definitely unusual for the sifious process to ultimately lead to

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Speaker 2: blocking a deal from Japan. This is a process normally

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Speaker 2: aimed more at China and sort of adversarial nations deals

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Speaker 2: with allied countries, particularly in you know, non high tech industries,

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Speaker 2: tend to have very little, if any problem navigating and

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Speaker 2: sailing through the SIFIUT process, So this one is unusually.

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Speaker 2: It has become a very high profile case. Whatever happens,

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Speaker 2: it is unusual, and that's why we've been following it

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Speaker 2: so closely for the past year. So right now, we

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Speaker 2: believe the deadline is December twenty second and twenty third

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Speaker 2: for a referral from Siftius to Biden. He would then

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Speaker 2: have fifteen days to announce any decision that he makes.

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Speaker 2: But the rest of it remains unclear, and as the

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Speaker 2: White House says in their own record statement that the

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Speaker 2: sitious process is ongoing.

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Speaker 1: Josh, I really appreciate your insight the time that you

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Speaker 1: have taken to help us understand this story. Today, President

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Speaker 1: Biden planning to block the sale of USDAL to Japan's

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Speaker 1: Nipon steal on national security grounds. Bloomberg's Josh Wingrove covers

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Speaker 1: the White House and national politics for us. Joining us

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Speaker 1: here on the Daybreak Asia podcast. Welcome back to the

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Speaker 1: Daybreak Asia Podcast. I'm Doug. Prisoner. Markets are bracing for

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Speaker 1: tomorrow's report on US retail inflation for the month of November.

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Speaker 1: This is the last key inflation data point before next

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Speaker 1: week's FED meeting for a closer look, Now, let's bring

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Speaker 1: in William Lee. He is the chief economist at the

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Speaker 1: Milkon Institute. Bill joins us from Henderson, Nevada. Bill, thank

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Speaker 1: you for being with us. It's always a pleasure. Let's

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Speaker 1: talk about what you're expecting to see in that CPI

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Speaker 1: print tomorrow. What are you expecting to see.

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Speaker 3: I'm hoping that the services will start to come down

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Speaker 3: a little bit, even though that people were blaming most

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Speaker 3: of the high inflation rate on housing and the rents

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Speaker 3: like coming down. If you exclude rent from the pc

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Speaker 3: the flavor, which is the Fed's favorite measure, you'll see

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Speaker 3: that inflation is running about three and three quarters percent,

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Speaker 3: well above the two percent target. So it's not just

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Speaker 3: housing that's keeping a question up. It's all of the

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Speaker 3: costs of living items that cause people to be voters of,

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Speaker 3: you know, in favor of President Trump instead of a

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Speaker 3: reelecting President Biden. They just felt that they just couldn't

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Speaker 3: make ends meet. Car insurance, auto repairs, all the services,

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Speaker 3: the doctors and medical services that people require, the educational services,

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Speaker 3: they are all going at a very rapid clip. And

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Speaker 3: I think the FED is right to be concerned that

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Speaker 3: we even though we are on a downward path, the

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Speaker 3: path itself is going incredibly slowly.

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Speaker 1: So do you think that everything that you described can

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Speaker 1: be addressed through tighter monetary policy or is there something

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Speaker 1: else at work right now that the FED is not

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Speaker 1: really capable of controlling effectively.

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Speaker 3: There are, for sure a lot of one one off items.

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Speaker 3: The auto insurance rates have really popped up like crazy

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Speaker 3: because of all of the disasters we've had that are

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Speaker 3: weather related. Also, the insurance is saying, well, the price

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Speaker 3: of repairing the car has just gone up, like you know,

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Speaker 3: so much more now that we need to raise our

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Speaker 3: insurance rates. So these these kind of items I think

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Speaker 3: are understandable. But when there are so many of them

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Speaker 3: and they all accumulate, that's when the FED says, well,

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Speaker 3: you know, there may be more going on here than

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Speaker 3: just one off events. So that's why I think they're

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Speaker 3: starting to get a little bit more cautious, and they

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Speaker 3: want to see much more evidence that the items that

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Speaker 3: really affect people's costs of living are starting to come

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Speaker 3: down a clear path towards two percent.

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Speaker 1: But if we see tomorrow in this CPI print that inflation,

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Speaker 1: in fact at the retail level is a little stubborn.

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Speaker 1: Does it change the Fed's thinking. I'm looking at the

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Speaker 1: swaps market right now, still projecting an eighty percent probability

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Speaker 1: of a quarter point cut at the December meeting. Does

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Speaker 1: that kind of square with your thinking?

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Speaker 3: It squis exactly what I'm thinking, because right now, I

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Speaker 3: think we're far enough from what everyone would consider neutral

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Speaker 3: that the FED feels that it really has to continue

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Speaker 3: its downward course because even though most of the economy

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Speaker 3: seems to be doing quite well, there are sufficient numbers

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Speaker 3: of small businesses and companies that are having a hard

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Speaker 3: time finding the right number of customers without having the

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Speaker 3: discount a lot of their services and other prices. So

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Speaker 3: I think the demand is very strong out there, and

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Speaker 3: the FED fields that they need to lower the rates

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Speaker 3: to start with a fore handle before they can feel

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Speaker 3: comfortable that we are approaching that level of neutrality where

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Speaker 3: they can pause a bit. So I'm guessing that they

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Speaker 3: going to continue with the rate cuts this December and

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Speaker 3: possibly pause in January if we still see stubborn inflation

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Speaker 3: and we see the labor market still hanging in there

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Speaker 3: in a very strong clip, although I've been on your

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Speaker 3: show many times to warn our listeners that the labor

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Speaker 3: market itself is very deceptive in its numbers. The payroll

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Speaker 3: numbers are averaging one hundred and fifty two hundred thousand,

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Speaker 3: but the household survey that measures the number of new

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Speaker 3: people getting jobs, that has averaged about thirty five thousand

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Speaker 3: per month over the last year. So we really haven't

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Speaker 3: had a lot of new people getting jobs, but a

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Speaker 3: lot of people who are getting jobs, or who have

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Speaker 3: jobs are getting second and third jobs because so many

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Speaker 3: can't make ends meet. And so we really are in

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Speaker 3: a bifurcated economy in the United States where a lot

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Speaker 3: of the people who have assets and by the way,

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Speaker 3: we're only talking maybe twenty percent of the population that

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Speaker 3: own seventy five percent of the stop market and pension

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Speaker 3: wealth out there. So those people are doing quite well.

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Speaker 3: But those majority of voters out there who said I

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Speaker 3: am having trouble making ends meet, they're the ones I

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Speaker 3: think the Federal Reserve is keeping an eye on and

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Speaker 3: saying we need to keep inflation control. Even if inflation

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Speaker 3: rises are two percent, prices are still rising. It's not

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Speaker 3: helping lower the cost of living, and I think that's

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Speaker 3: a social issue that all policymakers have to address.

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Speaker 1: So, as we know President elect Trump will take office

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Speaker 1: mid January, what are you hearing from the incoming administration

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Speaker 1: in terms of economic policy that may lead you to

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Speaker 1: be a little concerned about the direction of inflation from

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Speaker 1: here forward.

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Speaker 3: Well, on the positive front, I think the talk of

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Speaker 3: deregulation and reducing the presence of government in the economy

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Speaker 3: is a good thing. When he first entered office, he

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Speaker 3: cut a whole bunch of regulations that lowered the cost

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Speaker 3: of living for so many companies out there, which is

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Speaker 3: in some ways spurred the huge stock market boom that

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Speaker 3: people were anticipating to happen again. The other on the

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Speaker 3: bad front, news front, people would say, Oh my god,

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Speaker 3: this man is going to go nuts and create all

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Speaker 3: these tariffs and and and raise prices of imports. Uh,

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Speaker 3: and that will collapse international trade and that will be

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Speaker 3: the end of the world. I I have a slightly

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Speaker 3: different take than that, to be quite honest. I've talked

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Speaker 3: to a lot of advisors who are who are going

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Speaker 3: into the Trump administration, people who were in the Oval

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Speaker 3: office during the first Trump administration, when when he was

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Speaker 3: actually doing the tariffs. And I think the take I

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Speaker 3: have is that personal Trump uses the tariff as as

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Speaker 3: a bargaining chip. It's a way of coming to the

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Speaker 3: negotiating pay table with a very tough opening and saying, look,

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Speaker 3: if you don't start to concede some some trade issues

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Speaker 3: and and and start to play ball with us, you're

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Speaker 3: going to face losing the US market and I'm going

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Speaker 3: to raise tariffs to the point where nobody will want

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Speaker 3: to buy your stuff. So they're saying that to the Chinese,

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Speaker 3: the saying that to our European allies and saying, okay, now,

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Speaker 3: what is it that we can do. Well. Remember President

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Speaker 3: Trump got elected on the platform that he wants to

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Speaker 3: create more jobs at higher paying jobs the United States.

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Speaker 3: That's really the bulk of it. And so if people

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Speaker 3: are willing to invest in the United States and create

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Speaker 3: some of their their factories here and and create new

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Speaker 3: jobs that are high paying jobs, I am absolutely sure

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Speaker 3: that they will either face much lower tariffs, if any,

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Speaker 3: or they'll be given a bargain where a lot of

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Speaker 3: their manufacturing will be exempted and the important parts they

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Speaker 3: need to manufacture United States will also be exempt. And

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Speaker 3: I think that's one way of seeing how tariffs will

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Speaker 3: not really raise the cost of living for American citizens.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad that you mentioned the tariff issue because Chinese

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Speaker 1: exports we learned this just the other day up in

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Speaker 1: the month of November a rate of six point seven percent.

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Speaker 1: It appears as though a number of companies were rushing

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Speaker 1: to get goods to the US before new tariffs presumably

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Speaker 1: take effect. And the other thing that has been happening

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Speaker 1: in China, as you well know, that Beijing has been

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Speaker 1: using some of the most direct language yet on economic stimulus.

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Speaker 1: The focus here is not only on monetary easing, but

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Speaker 1: fiscal policy aimed at increasing domestic consumption. Are you confident

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Speaker 1: in China's ability to get out of this rut that

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Speaker 1: the economy has been in for years, particularly considering the

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Speaker 1: level of deflation that China has been in for more

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Speaker 1: than two years now.

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Speaker 3: That's a great point, getting to the first part of

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Speaker 3: your question about the Chinese exports. That has been an

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Speaker 3: integral part of this strategy to try to revive their

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Speaker 3: economy post COVID. They've been hoping that by exporting, especially

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Speaker 3: using their excess capacity to produce stuff at low prices,

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Speaker 3: they'd be able to increase their market shares in Europe

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Speaker 3: and Latin America and even the United States. And I

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Speaker 3: think what President She is realizing is that if the

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Speaker 3: US market really is becoming off limits as direct exports

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Speaker 3: into the US market because of the potential use of terrorists,

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Speaker 3: his next strategy is, Okay, we need to stimulate domestic consumption.

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Speaker 3: But he's doing it in a strange way. He's doing

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Speaker 3: it by saying, we also want to create better jobs

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Speaker 3: in China. We want to have these high tech industries

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Speaker 3: that are high paying jobs, because we already recognize that

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Speaker 3: we're losing a lot of the low paying jobs to

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Speaker 3: cheaper places in Asia in which to produce. So Chinese

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Speaker 3: factories are moving out very very rapidly for these lower

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Speaker 3: cost living places. So instead he's saying, let's subsidize these

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Speaker 3: high tech industries and high value addit activities that create

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Speaker 3: high paying jobs for our people. By giving our people

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Speaker 3: high paying jobs, we're going to have much more consumption.

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Speaker 3: And that is, if you remember your econ one on one,

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Speaker 3: that's exactly what the US did. Before the nineteen thirties,

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Speaker 3: there was a truth belief that supply will create his

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Speaker 3: own demand, something called says law. John Mayner Kames came

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Speaker 3: along and said, in a time when people are concerned

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Speaker 3: about the future, they're concerned about their jobs and their income,

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Speaker 3: people are not going to be spending. They're going to

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Speaker 3: be saving all of that extra income. And what we

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Speaker 3: need is direct government stimulus on the demand side. That's

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Speaker 3: something President She has not accepted. I think because from

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Speaker 3: I'm told by my friends in China that President She

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Speaker 3: has an aversion for direct payments into households because he

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Speaker 3: thinks it promotes laziness and promotes all sorts of bad habits,

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Speaker 3: and so instead he's stimulating supply side. And right now,

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Speaker 3: under these circumstances where China's finds itself with deflation and

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Speaker 3: people having very low expectations about higher jobs and higher

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Speaker 3: salary jobs and even keeping their jobs, that's the situation

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Speaker 3: that requires more demand side stimulus. And that's something China

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Speaker 3: has not done with their fiscal packages yet. So even

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Speaker 3: though they talk about enlarging the fiscal packages, unless they

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Speaker 3: shifted towards the demand side, I don't think it's going

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Speaker 3: to work.

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Speaker 2: Bill.

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Speaker 1: If we can go back to the issue of tariffs

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Speaker 1: and the risk of a new trade war between the

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Speaker 1: US and China. Maybe you're right, and the threat of

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Speaker 1: tariffs is a good negotiating strategy. But I'm wondering if

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Speaker 1: President Chijinping really sees the vulnerability of his economy in

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Speaker 1: a way that would lead him to avoid an adversarial

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Speaker 1: trade relationship with the US.

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Speaker 3: What do you think, Well, let me remind you what

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Speaker 3: he did during the first Trump administration. He actually got

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Speaker 3: together with President Trump and created the beginnings Phase one

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Speaker 3: of a new trade framework for the twenty first century

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Speaker 3: for the two largest economies in the world. They got

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Speaker 3: started there, they never got into phase two and phase three,

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Speaker 3: which talked more about intellectual property, trade and services and

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Speaker 3: all that kind of stuff. And I think President she

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Speaker 3: recognizes the need perhaps to go back to that same

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Speaker 3: strategy and to finish creating this trade framework, because once

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Speaker 3: you create a trade framework for the two largest economies

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Speaker 3: in the world, then you can use that as a

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Speaker 3: pattern to create more frameworks for other countries to include

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Speaker 3: within this framework. Remember, one thing that differentiates President Trump

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Speaker 3: from President Biden is that President Trump loves to make deals,

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Speaker 3: but he likes to make bilateral deals China, Korea, Singapore,

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Speaker 3: and he's done that in the past. I think President Biden,

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Speaker 3: instead of doing that, wanted to bring all of our

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Speaker 3: allies together into a unified package and create a big deal,

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Speaker 3: a multilateral deal that included everybody. I think President she

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Speaker 3: recognized the new negotiating regime in which the United States

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Speaker 3: is going, and I think he's going to be very

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Speaker 3: motivated to try to create and finish that twenty first

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Speaker 3: century trade framework for the United States and China.

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Speaker 2: Bill.

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Speaker 1: It's always a pleasure. Thank you so much for making

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Speaker 1: time to chat with us. He is William Lee, the

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Speaker 1: chief economist at the Milken Institute, joining us here on

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Speaker 1: the Daybreak Asia Podcast. Thanks for listening to today episode

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Speaker 1: of the Bloomberg Daybreak Asia Edition podcast. Each weekday, we

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Speaker 1: look at the story shaping markets, finance, and geopolitics in

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Speaker 1: the Asia Pacific. You can find us on Apple, Spotify,

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Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Podcast YouTube channel, or anywhere else you listen.

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Speaker 1: Join us again tomorrow for insight on the market moves

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Speaker 1: from Hong Kong to Singapore and Australia. I'm Doug Chrisner,

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Speaker 1: and this is Bloomberg