WEBVTT - Lab 034: Presently Futuristic 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:03.279 Well, TC, it's that time of year again, our favorite 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:09.360 time of years, spooky season. Yes, turtleneck, scary movies, apple cider, pumpkins, 0:00:09.640 --> 0:00:13.480 apple pie. I want it all. I love the fall time. 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:16.040 I love spooky season. We've been watching a lot of 0:00:16.040 --> 0:00:19.400 scary movies. Oh yes. This year, though, a lot of 0:00:19.400 --> 0:00:23.720 our spooky content has been centered around love Craft Country. 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:28.080 Oh my goodness, a phenomenal show. If you haven't watched 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:31.200 Lovecraft Country, figure out a way to watch it. It's 0:00:31.320 --> 0:00:34.640 so well done. And even if you don't like that 0:00:34.720 --> 0:00:37.440 type of media, just watch it on mute because Jonathan Majrix, 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:43.160 what's up? That's a beautiful man. I just told somebody 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:45.279 to watch the show, and today they said, what is 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:48.479 going on? I'm so confused? And I was like, that 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:51.400 means you're only one minute in exactly, because I remember 0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:54.320 I started late. Yes, the kid was watching from the 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:56.640 day that it dropped, and I was a couple episodes behind. 0:00:56.680 --> 0:00:58.400 She's like, you have to watch this show. In the 0:00:58.400 --> 0:01:02.560 first ten minutes, I was like, what exactly is this? 0:01:02.960 --> 0:01:06.639 I was so confused because it was just unlike really 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:10.039 anything I'd ever seen before. So this episode we're looking 0:01:10.040 --> 0:01:12.880 at spooky season in a different light. We're looking at 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:15.800 it through the lens of afrofuturism horror and how it's 0:01:15.959 --> 0:01:20.399 just really changed the perspective of the genre lately. I'm 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:33.640 TT and I'm Zachiah and from Spotify. This is Dope Labs. 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:49.720 Let's give people a quick overview about Lovecraft Country. Just 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:52.560 a fy there are spoilers in this episode, so if 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:56.360 you haven't finished watching Hip pause, now go finish watching 0:01:56.520 --> 0:01:58.840 and then come back. The major stars we mentioned Jonathan 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:01.960 Major's journey Smoe, who we all grew up with. With 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:04.840 every project, it feels like she's leveling up with her talent. 0:02:05.040 --> 0:02:10.000 She's just phenomenal. Ajanu Ellis Woman Withsaku, and then everybody's 0:02:10.040 --> 0:02:15.800 favorite omar Aka Michael K. Williamson and so those are like, 0:02:15.840 --> 0:02:19.679 that's our major cast. But we got to give me 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:22.000 Sha Green her props. So she developed this from a 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:25.200 book by Matt Ruff called Lovecraft Country, which was based 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:29.360 on these horror stories by HP Lovecraft. This is not 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:32.920 just a TT and Zakia thing. The world is talking 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:38.240 about Lovecraft Country. It's had crazy social media impressions. Every 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:41.080 Sunday night, get Ready, everybody's on Twitter is talking about it. 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:43.880 People are posting about it on Instagram, and I listened 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:46.960 to Black Girl Watching, which is just about Lovecraft Country 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:49.639 by Brook Oby, by Brooke Obi. Yes you know we're 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:52.919 big brook Obie fans here, huge brook Oby fans, Hey, Brook. 0:02:54.360 --> 0:02:57.239 I think Lovecraft Country saw this type of impression in 0:02:57.280 --> 0:02:59.679 the social media space and justin what we could see 0:02:59.680 --> 0:03:02.480 for Tea and this kind of horror and science fiction 0:03:03.120 --> 0:03:06.119 and this amazing blend of art. But we also saw 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:10.440 it with Watchmen, and we also saw it with Black Panther. Yes, 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:15.280 get Out absolutely, So that's like futurism slash horror. Right. 0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:19.200 This really made us think a lot about what defines 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:21.120 these types of works because it's hard to put them 0:03:21.120 --> 0:03:23.400 in a category or in a box, right right, And 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:26.920 I know that this can't be the first instance of it, 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:30.720 but it feels like this new renaissance or something like that, 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:33.960 or like a huge boom in this space. So that 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:39.200 leads us to today's topics. We're talking all things black horror, afrofuturism, 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:41.680 and a little bit of sci fi too, and we 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:47.240 are so excited, so let's jump into the recitation. So 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:49.680 what do we know? I know, Lovecraft Country has been 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:52.160 on the tip of everyone's tongues. Absolutely, it's been one 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:54.560 of these major entry points for people who may not 0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:56.880 have been paying attention. It feels like how people felt 0:03:57.040 --> 0:03:59.280 about Black Panther when they entered the MCU and it 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:03.480 was like, Hey, black people, Well, we've been here. I've 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:05.440 been trading X Men card since I was in the 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:08.080 third grade. What's up? You was trading an X Men card? 0:04:08.160 --> 0:04:09.800 You didn't see them? Oh, I have to send them 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:12.080 to you. Yes, girl, I have any X Men cards. 0:04:12.120 --> 0:04:14.160 It's okay, but I did like X Men. Storm was 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:19.839 my favorite because she's black representation. We need that. You 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:23.440 see how that works. Another thing that I feel like 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:27.000 we know is that we're seeing a lot more exposure 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:31.360 and projects that are related to black poor and afrofuturism, 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:36.719 like Blockbuster movies and these huge, huge TV shows like Lovecraft, 0:04:36.760 --> 0:04:41.839 Country and Watchmen, Jordan Peel's films, Janelle Monet's Dirty Computer. 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:47.440 Those are kind of contemporary adaptations or representations of afrofuturism. 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:50.960 Even Black is King right, These all draw heavy on 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:54.200 what they consider, you know, the afrofuturism can and those influences, 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:56.680 and those aren't all visual, so we know they exist, 0:04:56.680 --> 0:04:59.200 but we don't really know what they are, you know, 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:01.839 and that kind of all the stuff we don't know 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:04.360 and that we want to know, Right So I want 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:08.920 to know what is afrofuturism, what defines it? What specific 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:11.120 elements are folks looking for in order to put it 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:13.800 into that category? And so often I find that we're 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:18.120 saying afrofuturism and all these other descriptors. How do we 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:21.800 distinguish afrofuturism from sci fi and black horror? Where does 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:25.040 one end and the other begin? That's a very good question. 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:28.320 And then I want to know a timeline of the 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:31.840 history of afrofuturism, like where did it start? Who were 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:35.120 the trailblazers, Like who was the first person to think 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:37.800 of stuff like this? I want to know that. Hmm, 0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:40.520 that's a good question. And because we don't know where 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:43.320 it started, are there other places where it exists and 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:46.040 we may not even realize it, I'm sure? And then 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:50.359 what are the specific themes for afrofuturism. What do we 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:53.760 need to see in order to know when we see 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:56.159 something that that is what we are looking at? Like, 0:05:56.200 --> 0:05:58.400 so you mean like kind of some visual cues, some 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:01.159 things like like when whenever you see something with the 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:02.839 big eyes and it's around, You're like, oh, that's a 0:06:02.880 --> 0:06:06.159 Disney style, this is Pixar shot. You know, this is 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:10.599 afrofuturism style. This is horror exactly. And then are you 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:13.640 know with this big boom are there tropes to avoid? 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:16.080 I feel like with any genre sometimes people get lazy, 0:06:16.120 --> 0:06:17.920 like are there things that people just fall back on 0:06:17.960 --> 0:06:19.680 and they're just really flat? And we ought to stay 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:21.240 away from that? And then I just want to know 0:06:21.279 --> 0:06:24.479 the future honestly, With the way that things are looking now, 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:27.640 I'm like, Yo, what are movies and things and TV 0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:29.680 show is going to look like a year from now, 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:32.200 two years from now, ten years from now, It's gonna 0:06:32.200 --> 0:06:35.240 be wild. I'm ready for the next show. All right, 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:40.480 So let's jump into the dissection. Our guest for today's 0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:42.240 lab is doctor Kanetra Brooks. 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:45.000 Hi, my name is doctor Kanetra Brooks, and I am 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:48.600 the Audrey and John leslian Dale Chair in Literary Studies 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:50.560 at Michigan State University. 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:54.880 First, we wanted to hear doctor Brooks explain what afrofuturism is. 0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:57.320 But before we get into the nitty gritty with that. 0:06:57.839 --> 0:07:02.560 Let's talk about genres first, how are things categorized? 0:07:02.839 --> 0:07:08.400 Literature has multiple genres, drama, romance, and so you get 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:11.400 in sort of this box and there's sort of these 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:14.640 definitions of what it should look like, and there are 0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:18.080 certain motifs. We know, if there's a cowboy film, they're 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:21.520 gonna be ten gallon hats, they're gonna be guns, there's 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:25.120 going to be horses. There's certain things that mark that 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:29.080 something is a Western. So the same way with horror 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:33.880 and with fantasy and with science fiction, those were always 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:37.000 sort of pushed to the side, and so they were 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:38.920 considered a different genre. 0:07:39.280 --> 0:07:41.600 So we've always had these elements that signal to a 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:44.480 reader or viewer or participant or whatever to kind of 0:07:44.480 --> 0:07:46.840 tell you what genre of art you're consuming. 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:51.720 We know horror will have elements such as a ghost 0:07:52.120 --> 0:07:52.840 will have. 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:53.920 A haunted house. 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:59.240 Fantasy becomes a little bit more difficult to find because 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:02.920 it's about these these worlds that are built often based 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:08.240 on other worlds, and magic can happen in there. Science fiction, 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:11.400 there's hard science fiction, there's soft science fiction, but they're 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:16.320 based on technologies, they're based on hardcore science facts. 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:20.520 So with afrofuturism. We commonly see it clustered with sci 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:24.040 fi and horror. It's kind of really hard to pin down, 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:27.440 but there is a difference. So we ask doctor Brooks, 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:30.600 what about afrofuturism, what is it really? 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:34.079 I usually speak about afrofuturism as a theory of time, 0:08:35.080 --> 0:08:37.800 and it's where the past, the present, and the future 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:38.680 are not linear. 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:39.840 They're all conflated. 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:42.480 A part of the present is looking at the past 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:45.400 and recovering what was lost and what we're going to 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:47.680 take with us into that future that so many of 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:51.360 us imagine. So I'm a part of the recovery project. 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:56.199 Shari are Thim is a scholar who calls afrofuturism speculative 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:59.800 fiction from the African diaspora. And so sometimes we see 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:01.880 things that are sci fi and they just added in 0:09:01.920 --> 0:09:05.440 black people, But that's not afrofuturism. It's not just black 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:10.120 people in space. It also addresses their ancestry, so it 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:14.000 doesn't just put a black person in a futuristic space. 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:19.880 It takes into account their history, their lineage, and what 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:23.520 effects that might have on who they are presently in 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:26.080 the future. Yeah, and I think a key part of 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:30.800 doctor Brook's work is recovering, interweaving and assessing the remnants 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:33.480 of the past, and so this could be spiritual traditions 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:38.439 or philosophies or cosmologies. And she's saying, Okay, how does 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:41.160 this show up in or how does it affect the 0:09:41.200 --> 0:09:44.760 future in these works? What are the origins of afrofuturism. 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:47.680 How did it start? Well, there are a couple of points. 0:09:47.720 --> 0:09:52.600 One the idea of the conflation of the past president future. 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:56.800 It's a very old idea and multiple peoples had this idea, 0:09:56.920 --> 0:10:00.520 So the Acon people of what is now Ghana, Dogon 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:05.240 people of Mali. And it's not just a West African concept. 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:09.600 This applies in parts of Eastern Asia. We see this 0:10:09.800 --> 0:10:14.199 in a lot of non Western European traditions. We even 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:18.160 see it in indigenous European traditions. This is not a 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:19.800 new idea. 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:23.040 So the idea of futurism has been around since the 0:10:23.040 --> 0:10:25.840 beginning of time and all over the world. And that 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:29.160 makes sense because folks were imagining what the lives of 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:32.000 their descendants would be like. And so when we started 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:36.800 thinking about afrofuturism, we really can layer it on what 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:40.480 we consider you know classical literature and sci fi and 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:43.680 see how afrofuturism grew along with it. So you have 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:46.880 sci fi as this spinoff of classical stories. Is science 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:49.520 fiction was growing as a field, and it was basically 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:53.280 taking stories that were already known and injecting technology and 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:56.480 science into them. So that's science fiction layering on top 0:10:56.520 --> 0:11:00.280 of classic stories. All the while you have out for 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:03.640 futurism growing alongside science fiction. You have to remember science 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:06.720 fiction wasn't a respectable genre back then. So you have 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:11.160 these reputable black writers. So Delaney, Chestnut and Johnson. You 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:12.880 can see more about their work in our show notes. 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:15.920 They're telling these stories that explore the changes between society 0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:18.480 and science, but through this historical black lens. So they 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:21.280 don't necessarily want to be affiliated with science fiction anyway, 0:11:21.520 --> 0:11:25.520 because they're really looking at race and society and culture. 0:11:25.760 --> 0:11:29.120 And they're respectable writers, not just like pulp fiction. Right, 0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:32.160 they're taking an academic approach to it and really trying 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:36.880 to project and extrapolate how the future will look for 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:40.680 black folks. Yes, and there's so much more to consider there. 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:43.640 Please check out our show notes. So you mentioned Delaney, 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:48.160 Chestnut and Johnson, but who are the trailblazers. And when 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:52.520 did we see black people start telling horror stories? 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:55.199 My book on Black Women and Horror searching for Ciica 0:11:55.480 --> 0:11:58.800 X is this because folks told me black women don't 0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:02.600 do horror. And the easiest way to piss me off 0:12:02.640 --> 0:12:04.319 is to tell me black women don't do something. 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:06.480 And I was like, Oh, I got you. 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:09.719 And I say that Zora Neil Hurston, I really look 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:13.880 at her as the first black woman horror writer. And 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:16.760 I say this because she has a collection of stories 0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:20.960 and every tongue got to confess, and she's going around 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:23.920 and basically getting the oral histories and tales from people 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:24.520 around them. 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:25.520 And she has a. 0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:29.560 Whole section called hate Tales and devil Tales. And so 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:33.080 we have this establishment in this tradition. Here we have 0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:38.080 Dubois writing the comment Schari E. Thomas. She has a 0:12:38.120 --> 0:12:42.280 collection of stories called Dark Matter, right, And so this 0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:43.400 tradition is here. 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:46.360 It's about where to look. That's so wild because I've 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:49.880 read Zora Neil Hurston and Dubois and I have never 0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:53.200 considered it through this lens right, right, I think this 0:12:53.360 --> 0:12:56.000 is exactly what we needed to kind of shine a light. Yeah, 0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:58.160 it makes you think about all of the things that 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:02.280 we read in high school in college and say, hmm, 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:07.000 maybe this wasn't just like traditional literature, Like maybe this 0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:11.280 is afrofuturism, maybe this is horror, maybe this is sci fi. 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:13.400 We're gonna take a quick break, and when we get back, 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:16.160 we're going to talk about where black horror and afrofuturism 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:19.240 are hiding in plain sight and where these genres are 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:38.199 going in the future. We're back, and the next question 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:41.040 that we had for doctor Brooks was where are black 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:43.800 horror and afrofuturism hiding in plain sight? 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:47.080 We just have to look at the reality that so 0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:49.760 much of our stuff is oral, so much of our 0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:55.040 stuff passes down individually or in small groups, and just 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:59.800 because you can't find something within the general public does 0:13:59.880 --> 0:14:01.240 not mean it doesn't exist. 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:03.280 This is such a good point. I feel like we're 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:05.920 always talking about the printing press and who had access 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:08.280 to it, but it really shapes what we consider to 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:12.199 be legit history. Right the printing press has white supremacy 0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:17.400 in every single cog and script. But when you think 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:19.640 about the stories that are told in your family and 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:22.720 passed down, it's not hard for me to see it honestly. 0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:25.880 I mean because even present day, we pass down different 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:29.720 stories from our famili's generation to generation. My family has. 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:33.960 This duality where they are very very good, upstanding Christians, 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:37.320 but there were always these whispers about like who can 0:14:37.360 --> 0:14:39.840 talk to the dad who has this relationship with the dead. 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:43.160 Well and so and so visited me last night and 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:46.120 she said this, this and this, And I don't think 0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:49.320 that multiplicity is anything for us to be ashamed of. 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:51.800 I think it's a beautiful thing in our family. But 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:55.240 I also have to deal with the idea that it 0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:58.240 makes some people in my family uncomfortable. It's just push 0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:00.520 and pull with my mom because I I know she's 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:03.800 also dealing with her own feelings about what has happened 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:06.680 and what has been done with her belief system. 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:09.160 But she also is this wealth. 0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:12.360 Of knowledge and she tells these stories and I learned 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:15.680 all these things about my family and about everybody in 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:18.000 Placaman's Parish, and she's like, you should go talk to 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:20.120 so and so, and you need to be with so 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:23.520 and so and so. She gets into it in these 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:25.920 really really interesting ways. 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:27.680 To all the people I love. I tell you, if 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:30.520 I die, I will come back and haunt you. And 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:33.680 if you should perish before me, please come back and 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:36.960 haunt me too. Yes, this is something that Zakia tells 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:40.600 all of her friends, and I don't know if I 0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:43.280 can commit to haunting her. I'm just saying, if it's 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:47.800 an option, be my guest, be my guest, put our 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:52.440 friendship to the test. You know, you talk to me 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:55.480 all about it all the time, about how and your 0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:58.400 family that you guys talk about these types of things. Yeah, 0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:01.080 you know. I was saying to my dad, come back 0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:04.280 and haunt me and he said, oh, you mean a 0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:07.080 haint And I was like, no, I mean haunt and 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:09.160 he was like, yeah, like a haint. And I was like, 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:13.560 we're using these vowels differently. This is a verb. It 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:15.880 seems like he's talking about it now. And doctor Brooks 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:21.000 just confirmed that it's called a haint in different storytelling. Yeah, 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:23.680 I was with you, Uncle Curtis. So even when we 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:25.680 don't realize it, there's a little bit of horror and 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:27.800 af for futurism going on all around us. 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:32.040 Yeah, and you guys are speaking about affle futurism as 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:37.000 genre and including horror under it, because black folks don't 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:39.800 necessarily pay attention to genre and there's a part of 0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:43.160 my book where I say that black women genre writers 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:46.520 are writing fluid fiction, and I said, they don't pay 0:16:46.560 --> 0:16:49.640 attention to this is horror, this is science fiction, this 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:53.320 is fantasy. They write and they blend these things together, 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:56.480 and that often it can act as a mirror for 0:16:56.880 --> 0:16:59.520 the simultaneous oppressions. 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:01.840 That black women feel right and experience. 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:06.360 So it's not just womanhood, it's not just racial, it's 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:09.840 not just class, it's not just sexuality. It's all those 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:11.840 things together, and they're always flowing. 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:14.679 I look at it as a political tool as well. 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:17.360 Right, if you're constantly in motion, it's hard to pin 0:17:17.440 --> 0:17:21.639 you down in stereotyping. It's hard to stop the development 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:25.200 of who you are. So black women are always oscillating, 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:28.320 they're fluid. You cannot pin us down to one of 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:32.679 our identities and therefore lock us into something, because we 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:35.000 refuse to be locked in your small boxes. 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:38.200 And I think we see Misha Green doing this exact 0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:42.440 thing with Lovecraft Country. So on screen, we're just weaving 0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:45.359 in and out of these different elements. Yes, it feels 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:47.800 like horror sometimes because it can get a little bit 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:51.000 gory with some of the killing. Yeah, but then you're 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:53.320 dealing with monsters, so that seems a little bit like 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:57.080 sci fi ish. Yeah, then you're on a whole Indiana 0:17:57.160 --> 0:18:00.600 Jones type quest for a secret book next year space 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:03.760 and then next to your time traveling and doing something 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:06.640 that seems very very futuristic, with like chips in your 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:09.280 arm and stuff like that. But then I also feel 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:11.359 like I'm getting a little bit of soul fou vibes, 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:13.800 Like Hippolyta is our big mama of source. We see 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:17.000 her bringing the family together. But then you also have 0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:20.840 a love story being told between Letty and Tick, so 0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:23.840 it's giving you all of these like love and basketball 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:27.199 vibes and stuff like that. Lovecraft is a ten in one. 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:29.000 It's one of those ten and one pins. You remember those. 0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:31.200 You click it down, you're right with one color. Click again, 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:33.600 you're right with another color. Yes, she's doing that with 0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:38.840 genres technic color screenwriting. You gotta keep your eyeballs peeled. 0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:41.879 I mean, there's so much. It's family dynamics, everything, and 0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:45.520 I really think because it's not easily boxed into one genre. 0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:48.119 When you're watching, you have to engage on this deeper 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:51.160 level and ask what's happening? What am I thinking about this. 0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:53.920 And that's why Lovecraft country is so hard to define, right, 0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:58.720 it's fluid genre fiction. I can't look at straight dramas. 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:02.000 I can't look at at twelve years of slave. I 0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:05.200 can't handle something like that. I need something where somebody's 0:19:05.280 --> 0:19:09.439 ancestor gonna come in and set everybody on fire and 0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:11.640 take you to the ancestral space and teach you how 0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:13.479 to do the spells and all this sort of stuff. 0:19:13.680 --> 0:19:16.840 I need that sort of agency within it. And I 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:22.119 also need that sort of sense of magic, because we've 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:26.000 always had these ontologies or ways of being where we 0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:30.760 have this magical aspect, not about us, but that the 0:19:30.840 --> 0:19:32.240 magic is possible. 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:35.960 Ah magic or that's another element. I guess that's what 0:19:36.000 --> 0:19:38.480 we really want to know. What are the specific themes 0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:42.160 in afrofuturism and are there any tropes that you should 0:19:42.160 --> 0:19:42.800 really avoid. 0:19:43.080 --> 0:19:45.600 I think it still has to be done well. You 0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:48.520 got to do your homework, you gotta read, you got 0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:51.840 to watch. Some of the best stuff is not visual 0:19:52.080 --> 0:19:56.000 because for so long black folks been excluded from creating 0:19:56.320 --> 0:19:59.560 films and television shows. You got to go to the comics, 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:02.560 you got to go to the literature. You know, horror 0:20:02.640 --> 0:20:05.280 is about an excess of emotion, or when black horror 0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:08.760 is done well, you feel all those emotions and so 0:20:09.560 --> 0:20:11.679 it's not just anybody can get in this game. I 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:15.280 talk about that scene in which Manahatti her skin is 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:20.200 melting off of her skeleton that she burns, and I say, 0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:23.639 this is when horror is operating on all cylinders, that 0:20:23.680 --> 0:20:26.879 we can see the awesomeness of this something that should 0:20:26.920 --> 0:20:30.880 be considered grotesque, but we're actually crying with sadness when 0:20:30.920 --> 0:20:33.720 it's happening. We feel the empathy for her. 0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:37.200 I was definitely crying in that scene from Lovecraft Country 0:20:38.200 --> 0:20:42.280 just too Much. Yeah, it was a really emotional scene 0:20:42.320 --> 0:20:46.719 because you know the power in it. She has to 0:20:47.440 --> 0:20:51.080 die in this way in order for things to happen 0:20:51.240 --> 0:20:54.359 the way they're supposed to happen, and it's just heart 0:20:54.400 --> 0:20:59.600 wrenching but then also powerful and pretty grotesque honestly because 0:20:59.600 --> 0:21:03.320 we are watching her burn alive. I think there are 0:21:03.400 --> 0:21:05.800 scenes in Black Panther that are like that for me, 0:21:06.160 --> 0:21:09.720 do you remember and get out? When oh boy takes 0:21:09.720 --> 0:21:12.159 that picture and that flash goes off right and that 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:15.360 guy's like get out, like even though I've never had 0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:17.640 that exact feeling. It almost feels like when you get 0:21:17.680 --> 0:21:20.680 to a place. Have you ever experienced going somewhere you're like, oh, 0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:22.679 finally somebody else that looks like me, let me go 0:21:22.720 --> 0:21:24.320 talk to them, and they're like this, ain't it right. 0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:26.760 It's like those mirages in the desert. You think you 0:21:26.840 --> 0:21:31.000 found an oasis, right, and it's like, Nope, that's just 0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:34.720 more saying right, and your stomach drops that feeling. 0:21:35.160 --> 0:21:35.280 Hm. 0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:39.320 Absolutely absolutely. And then even at the end of Get Out, 0:21:39.359 --> 0:21:42.840 when we think the main character might be about to 0:21:42.880 --> 0:21:44.639 die and then his friend comes out and kills a 0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:49.280 lady and it's like, yes, like you you're so excited, 0:21:49.560 --> 0:21:52.240 but somebody something really like awful just happened. But you 0:21:52.359 --> 0:21:56.639 feel liberated, you know, like freedom because we know it 0:21:56.680 --> 0:21:59.960 had a possibility of going a whole different way exactly 0:22:00.280 --> 0:22:02.760 depending on who is in that car exactly who gets 0:22:02.760 --> 0:22:05.440 seen automatically as the threat because it was a cop 0:22:05.440 --> 0:22:08.160 car and we were like, oh, this is not gonna 0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:10.879 end well oh yep, but then it turns out to 0:22:10.920 --> 0:22:13.760 be his friend and you just feel like this overwhelming 0:22:13.840 --> 0:22:15.679 sense of joy And I think this is part of 0:22:15.680 --> 0:22:19.760 the appeal, right watching something so layered and imaginative as 0:22:19.840 --> 0:22:24.720 Lovecraft makes me think I want more of this exactly. 0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:27.119 I think that this is set in the tone for 0:22:27.200 --> 0:22:30.840 everything to come. So we ask Doctor Books about the 0:22:30.880 --> 0:22:34.960