1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,279 Speaker 1: Well, TC, it's that time of year again, our favorite 2 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: time of years, spooky season. Yes, turtleneck, scary movies, apple cider, pumpkins, 3 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: apple pie. I want it all. I love the fall time. 4 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 1: I love spooky season. We've been watching a lot of 5 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 1: scary movies. Oh yes. This year, though, a lot of 6 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: our spooky content has been centered around love Craft Country. 7 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, a phenomenal show. If you haven't watched 8 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: Lovecraft Country, figure out a way to watch it. It's 9 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: so well done. And even if you don't like that 10 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: type of media, just watch it on mute because Jonathan Majrix, 11 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:43,160 Speaker 1: what's up? That's a beautiful man. I just told somebody 12 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:45,279 Speaker 1: to watch the show, and today they said, what is 13 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:48,479 Speaker 1: going on? I'm so confused? And I was like, that 14 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: means you're only one minute in exactly, because I remember 15 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: I started late. Yes, the kid was watching from the 16 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 1: day that it dropped, and I was a couple episodes behind. 17 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: She's like, you have to watch this show. In the 18 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: first ten minutes, I was like, what exactly is this? 19 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:06,639 Speaker 1: I was so confused because it was just unlike really 20 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:10,039 Speaker 1: anything I'd ever seen before. So this episode we're looking 21 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: at spooky season in a different light. We're looking at 22 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: it through the lens of afrofuturism horror and how it's 23 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:20,399 Speaker 1: just really changed the perspective of the genre lately. I'm 24 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: TT and I'm Zachiah and from Spotify. This is Dope Labs. 25 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: Let's give people a quick overview about Lovecraft Country. Just 26 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 1: a fy there are spoilers in this episode, so if 27 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: you haven't finished watching Hip pause, now go finish watching 28 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: and then come back. The major stars we mentioned Jonathan 29 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: Major's journey Smoe, who we all grew up with. With 30 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: every project, it feels like she's leveling up with her talent. 31 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 1: She's just phenomenal. Ajanu Ellis Woman Withsaku, and then everybody's 32 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 1: favorite omar Aka Michael K. Williamson and so those are like, 33 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:19,679 Speaker 1: that's our major cast. But we got to give me 34 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 1: Sha Green her props. So she developed this from a 35 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 1: book by Matt Ruff called Lovecraft Country, which was based 36 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 1: on these horror stories by HP Lovecraft. This is not 37 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:32,920 Speaker 1: just a TT and Zakia thing. The world is talking 38 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 1: about Lovecraft Country. It's had crazy social media impressions. Every 39 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 1: Sunday night, get Ready, everybody's on Twitter is talking about it. 40 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: People are posting about it on Instagram, and I listened 41 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:46,960 Speaker 1: to Black Girl Watching, which is just about Lovecraft Country 42 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:49,639 Speaker 1: by Brook Oby, by Brooke Obi. Yes you know we're 43 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 1: big brook Obie fans here, huge brook Oby fans, Hey, Brook. 44 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:57,239 Speaker 1: I think Lovecraft Country saw this type of impression in 45 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,679 Speaker 1: the social media space and justin what we could see 46 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: for Tea and this kind of horror and science fiction 47 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,119 Speaker 1: and this amazing blend of art. But we also saw 48 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: it with Watchmen, and we also saw it with Black Panther. Yes, 49 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 1: get Out absolutely, So that's like futurism slash horror. Right. 50 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: This really made us think a lot about what defines 51 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: these types of works because it's hard to put them 52 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 1: in a category or in a box, right right, And 53 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,920 Speaker 1: I know that this can't be the first instance of it, 54 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: but it feels like this new renaissance or something like that, 55 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 1: or like a huge boom in this space. So that 56 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 1: leads us to today's topics. We're talking all things black horror, afrofuturism, 57 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: and a little bit of sci fi too, and we 58 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: are so excited, so let's jump into the recitation. So 59 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: what do we know? I know, Lovecraft Country has been 60 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 1: on the tip of everyone's tongues. Absolutely, it's been one 61 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: of these major entry points for people who may not 62 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: have been paying attention. It feels like how people felt 63 00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: about Black Panther when they entered the MCU and it 64 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: was like, Hey, black people, Well, we've been here. I've 65 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 1: been trading X Men card since I was in the 66 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: third grade. What's up? You was trading an X Men card? 67 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: You didn't see them? Oh, I have to send them 68 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 1: to you. Yes, girl, I have any X Men cards. 69 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: It's okay, but I did like X Men. Storm was 70 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:19,839 Speaker 1: my favorite because she's black representation. We need that. You 71 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 1: see how that works. Another thing that I feel like 72 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: we know is that we're seeing a lot more exposure 73 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:31,360 Speaker 1: and projects that are related to black poor and afrofuturism, 74 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 1: like Blockbuster movies and these huge, huge TV shows like Lovecraft, 75 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:41,839 Speaker 1: Country and Watchmen, Jordan Peel's films, Janelle Monet's Dirty Computer. 76 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: Those are kind of contemporary adaptations or representations of afrofuturism. 77 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: Even Black is King right, These all draw heavy on 78 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: what they consider, you know, the afrofuturism can and those influences, 79 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: and those aren't all visual, so we know they exist, 80 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: but we don't really know what they are, you know, 81 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:01,839 Speaker 1: and that kind of all the stuff we don't know 82 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 1: and that we want to know, Right So I want 83 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 1: to know what is afrofuturism, what defines it? What specific 84 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 1: elements are folks looking for in order to put it 85 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: into that category? And so often I find that we're 86 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: saying afrofuturism and all these other descriptors. How do we 87 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: distinguish afrofuturism from sci fi and black horror? Where does 88 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 1: one end and the other begin? That's a very good question. 89 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: And then I want to know a timeline of the 90 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:31,840 Speaker 1: history of afrofuturism, like where did it start? Who were 91 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: the trailblazers, Like who was the first person to think 92 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 1: of stuff like this? I want to know that. Hmm, 93 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: that's a good question. And because we don't know where 94 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: it started, are there other places where it exists and 95 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 1: we may not even realize it, I'm sure? And then 96 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:50,359 Speaker 1: what are the specific themes for afrofuturism. What do we 97 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 1: need to see in order to know when we see 98 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,159 Speaker 1: something that that is what we are looking at? Like, 99 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 1: so you mean like kind of some visual cues, some 100 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,159 Speaker 1: things like like when whenever you see something with the 101 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:02,839 Speaker 1: big eyes and it's around, You're like, oh, that's a 102 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 1: Disney style, this is Pixar shot. You know, this is 103 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:10,599 Speaker 1: afrofuturism style. This is horror exactly. And then are you 104 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 1: know with this big boom are there tropes to avoid? 105 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: I feel like with any genre sometimes people get lazy, 106 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 1: like are there things that people just fall back on 107 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 1: and they're just really flat? And we ought to stay 108 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: away from that? And then I just want to know 109 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:24,479 Speaker 1: the future honestly, With the way that things are looking now, 110 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 1: I'm like, Yo, what are movies and things and TV 111 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 1: show is going to look like a year from now, 112 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: two years from now, ten years from now, It's gonna 113 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 1: be wild. I'm ready for the next show. All right, 114 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:40,480 Speaker 1: So let's jump into the dissection. Our guest for today's 115 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: lab is doctor Kanetra Brooks. 116 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 2: Hi, my name is doctor Kanetra Brooks, and I am 117 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:48,600 Speaker 2: the Audrey and John leslian Dale Chair in Literary Studies 118 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 2: at Michigan State University. 119 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 1: First, we wanted to hear doctor Brooks explain what afrofuturism is. 120 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: But before we get into the nitty gritty with that. 121 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 1: Let's talk about genres first, how are things categorized? 122 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 2: Literature has multiple genres, drama, romance, and so you get 123 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 2: in sort of this box and there's sort of these 124 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 2: definitions of what it should look like, and there are 125 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 2: certain motifs. We know, if there's a cowboy film, they're 126 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 2: gonna be ten gallon hats, they're gonna be guns, there's 127 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 2: going to be horses. There's certain things that mark that 128 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 2: something is a Western. So the same way with horror 129 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 2: and with fantasy and with science fiction, those were always 130 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 2: sort of pushed to the side, and so they were 131 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 2: considered a different genre. 132 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 1: So we've always had these elements that signal to a 133 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: reader or viewer or participant or whatever to kind of 134 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: tell you what genre of art you're consuming. 135 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 2: We know horror will have elements such as a ghost 136 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 2: will have. 137 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: A haunted house. 138 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 2: Fantasy becomes a little bit more difficult to find because 139 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 2: it's about these these worlds that are built often based 140 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 2: on other worlds, and magic can happen in there. Science fiction, 141 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 2: there's hard science fiction, there's soft science fiction, but they're 142 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 2: based on technologies, they're based on hardcore science facts. 143 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: So with afrofuturism. We commonly see it clustered with sci 144 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 1: fi and horror. It's kind of really hard to pin down, 145 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: but there is a difference. So we ask doctor Brooks, 146 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 1: what about afrofuturism, what is it really? 147 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:34,079 Speaker 2: I usually speak about afrofuturism as a theory of time, 148 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 2: and it's where the past, the present, and the future 149 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 2: are not linear. 150 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 1: They're all conflated. 151 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 2: A part of the present is looking at the past 152 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 2: and recovering what was lost and what we're going to 153 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:47,680 Speaker 2: take with us into that future that so many of 154 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 2: us imagine. So I'm a part of the recovery project. 155 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:56,199 Speaker 1: Shari are Thim is a scholar who calls afrofuturism speculative 156 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: fiction from the African diaspora. And so sometimes we see 157 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: things that are sci fi and they just added in 158 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 1: black people, But that's not afrofuturism. It's not just black 159 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 1: people in space. It also addresses their ancestry, so it 160 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: doesn't just put a black person in a futuristic space. 161 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: It takes into account their history, their lineage, and what 162 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: effects that might have on who they are presently in 163 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:26,080 Speaker 1: the future. Yeah, and I think a key part of 164 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: doctor Brook's work is recovering, interweaving and assessing the remnants 165 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 1: of the past, and so this could be spiritual traditions 166 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:38,439 Speaker 1: or philosophies or cosmologies. And she's saying, Okay, how does 167 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 1: this show up in or how does it affect the 168 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: future in these works? What are the origins of afrofuturism. 169 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,680 Speaker 1: How did it start? Well, there are a couple of points. 170 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 2: One the idea of the conflation of the past president future. 171 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 2: It's a very old idea and multiple peoples had this idea, 172 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 2: So the Acon people of what is now Ghana, Dogon 173 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 2: people of Mali. And it's not just a West African concept. 174 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 2: This applies in parts of Eastern Asia. We see this 175 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:14,199 Speaker 2: in a lot of non Western European traditions. We even 176 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 2: see it in indigenous European traditions. This is not a 177 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 2: new idea. 178 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: So the idea of futurism has been around since the 179 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 1: beginning of time and all over the world. And that 180 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 1: makes sense because folks were imagining what the lives of 181 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 1: their descendants would be like. And so when we started 182 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 1: thinking about afrofuturism, we really can layer it on what 183 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 1: we consider you know classical literature and sci fi and 184 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:43,680 Speaker 1: see how afrofuturism grew along with it. So you have 185 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: sci fi as this spinoff of classical stories. Is science 186 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 1: fiction was growing as a field, and it was basically 187 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: taking stories that were already known and injecting technology and 188 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 1: science into them. So that's science fiction layering on top 189 00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 1: of classic stories. All the while you have out for 190 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: futurism growing alongside science fiction. You have to remember science 191 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 1: fiction wasn't a respectable genre back then. So you have 192 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 1: these reputable black writers. So Delaney, Chestnut and Johnson. You 193 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 1: can see more about their work in our show notes. 194 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 1: They're telling these stories that explore the changes between society 195 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: and science, but through this historical black lens. So they 196 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: don't necessarily want to be affiliated with science fiction anyway, 197 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 1: because they're really looking at race and society and culture. 198 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 1: And they're respectable writers, not just like pulp fiction. Right, 199 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: they're taking an academic approach to it and really trying 200 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 1: to project and extrapolate how the future will look for 201 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 1: black folks. Yes, and there's so much more to consider there. 202 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 1: Please check out our show notes. So you mentioned Delaney, 203 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: Chestnut and Johnson, but who are the trailblazers. And when 204 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 1: did we see black people start telling horror stories? 205 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:55,199 Speaker 2: My book on Black Women and Horror searching for Ciica 206 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 2: X is this because folks told me black women don't 207 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 2: do horror. And the easiest way to piss me off 208 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:04,319 Speaker 2: is to tell me black women don't do something. 209 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 1: And I was like, Oh, I got you. 210 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:09,719 Speaker 2: And I say that Zora Neil Hurston, I really look 211 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 2: at her as the first black woman horror writer. And 212 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 2: I say this because she has a collection of stories 213 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 2: and every tongue got to confess, and she's going around 214 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 2: and basically getting the oral histories and tales from people 215 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 2: around them. 216 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 1: And she has a. 217 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 2: Whole section called hate Tales and devil Tales. And so 218 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 2: we have this establishment in this tradition. Here we have 219 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:38,080 Speaker 2: Dubois writing the comment Schari E. Thomas. She has a 220 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 2: collection of stories called Dark Matter, right, And so this 221 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 2: tradition is here. 222 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 1: It's about where to look. That's so wild because I've 223 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: read Zora Neil Hurston and Dubois and I have never 224 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:53,200 Speaker 1: considered it through this lens right, right, I think this 225 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: is exactly what we needed to kind of shine a light. Yeah, 226 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 1: it makes you think about all of the things that 227 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 1: we read in high school in college and say, hmm, 228 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 1: maybe this wasn't just like traditional literature, Like maybe this 229 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: is afrofuturism, maybe this is horror, maybe this is sci fi. 230 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 1: We're gonna take a quick break, and when we get back, 231 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about where black horror and afrofuturism 232 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 1: are hiding in plain sight and where these genres are 233 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:38,199 Speaker 1: going in the future. We're back, and the next question 234 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: that we had for doctor Brooks was where are black 235 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 1: horror and afrofuturism hiding in plain sight? 236 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:47,080 Speaker 2: We just have to look at the reality that so 237 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 2: much of our stuff is oral, so much of our 238 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 2: stuff passes down individually or in small groups, and just 239 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 2: because you can't find something within the general public does 240 00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 2: not mean it doesn't exist. 241 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 1: This is such a good point. I feel like we're 242 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: always talking about the printing press and who had access 243 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 1: to it, but it really shapes what we consider to 244 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:12,199 Speaker 1: be legit history. Right the printing press has white supremacy 245 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 1: in every single cog and script. But when you think 246 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: about the stories that are told in your family and 247 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: passed down, it's not hard for me to see it honestly. 248 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 1: I mean because even present day, we pass down different 249 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 1: stories from our famili's generation to generation. My family has. 250 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 2: This duality where they are very very good, upstanding Christians, 251 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 2: but there were always these whispers about like who can 252 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 2: talk to the dad who has this relationship with the dead. 253 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 2: Well and so and so visited me last night and 254 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 2: she said this, this and this, And I don't think 255 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 2: that multiplicity is anything for us to be ashamed of. 256 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 2: I think it's a beautiful thing in our family. But 257 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 2: I also have to deal with the idea that it 258 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 2: makes some people in my family uncomfortable. It's just push 259 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 2: and pull with my mom because I I know she's 260 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 2: also dealing with her own feelings about what has happened 261 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 2: and what has been done with her belief system. 262 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 1: But she also is this wealth. 263 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 2: Of knowledge and she tells these stories and I learned 264 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 2: all these things about my family and about everybody in 265 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 2: Placaman's Parish, and she's like, you should go talk to 266 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 2: so and so, and you need to be with so 267 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 2: and so and so. She gets into it in these 268 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 2: really really interesting ways. 269 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: To all the people I love. I tell you, if 270 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: I die, I will come back and haunt you. And 271 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 1: if you should perish before me, please come back and 272 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: haunt me too. Yes, this is something that Zakia tells 273 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 1: all of her friends, and I don't know if I 274 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: can commit to haunting her. I'm just saying, if it's 275 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: an option, be my guest, be my guest, put our 276 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: friendship to the test. You know, you talk to me 277 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 1: all about it all the time, about how and your 278 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: family that you guys talk about these types of things. Yeah, 279 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 1: you know. I was saying to my dad, come back 280 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 1: and haunt me and he said, oh, you mean a 281 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: haint And I was like, no, I mean haunt and 282 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: he was like, yeah, like a haint. And I was like, 283 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 1: we're using these vowels differently. This is a verb. It 284 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: seems like he's talking about it now. And doctor Brooks 285 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 1: just confirmed that it's called a haint in different storytelling. Yeah, 286 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 1: I was with you, Uncle Curtis. So even when we 287 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 1: don't realize it, there's a little bit of horror and 288 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 1: af for futurism going on all around us. 289 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you guys are speaking about affle futurism as 290 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 2: genre and including horror under it, because black folks don't 291 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 2: necessarily pay attention to genre and there's a part of 292 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 2: my book where I say that black women genre writers 293 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 2: are writing fluid fiction, and I said, they don't pay 294 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 2: attention to this is horror, this is science fiction, this 295 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 2: is fantasy. They write and they blend these things together, 296 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 2: and that often it can act as a mirror for 297 00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 2: the simultaneous oppressions. 298 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 1: That black women feel right and experience. 299 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:06,360 Speaker 2: So it's not just womanhood, it's not just racial, it's 300 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 2: not just class, it's not just sexuality. It's all those 301 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 2: things together, and they're always flowing. 302 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:14,679 Speaker 1: I look at it as a political tool as well. 303 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,360 Speaker 2: Right, if you're constantly in motion, it's hard to pin 304 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:21,639 Speaker 2: you down in stereotyping. It's hard to stop the development 305 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:25,200 Speaker 2: of who you are. So black women are always oscillating, 306 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 2: they're fluid. You cannot pin us down to one of 307 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:32,679 Speaker 2: our identities and therefore lock us into something, because we 308 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 2: refuse to be locked in your small boxes. 309 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 1: And I think we see Misha Green doing this exact 310 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:42,440 Speaker 1: thing with Lovecraft Country. So on screen, we're just weaving 311 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 1: in and out of these different elements. Yes, it feels 312 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: like horror sometimes because it can get a little bit 313 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: gory with some of the killing. Yeah, but then you're 314 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: dealing with monsters, so that seems a little bit like 315 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 1: sci fi ish. Yeah, then you're on a whole Indiana 316 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 1: Jones type quest for a secret book next year space 317 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: and then next to your time traveling and doing something 318 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:06,640 Speaker 1: that seems very very futuristic, with like chips in your 319 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 1: arm and stuff like that. But then I also feel 320 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 1: like I'm getting a little bit of soul fou vibes, 321 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 1: Like Hippolyta is our big mama of source. We see 322 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 1: her bringing the family together. But then you also have 323 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: a love story being told between Letty and Tick, so 324 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 1: it's giving you all of these like love and basketball 325 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:27,199 Speaker 1: vibes and stuff like that. Lovecraft is a ten in one. 326 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 1: It's one of those ten and one pins. You remember those. 327 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:31,200 Speaker 1: You click it down, you're right with one color. Click again, 328 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 1: you're right with another color. Yes, she's doing that with 329 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 1: genres technic color screenwriting. You gotta keep your eyeballs peeled. 330 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:41,879 Speaker 1: I mean, there's so much. It's family dynamics, everything, and 331 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: I really think because it's not easily boxed into one genre. 332 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,119 Speaker 1: When you're watching, you have to engage on this deeper 333 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,160 Speaker 1: level and ask what's happening? What am I thinking about this. 334 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:53,920 Speaker 2: And that's why Lovecraft country is so hard to define, right, 335 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 2: it's fluid genre fiction. I can't look at straight dramas. 336 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 2: I can't look at at twelve years of slave. I 337 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:05,200 Speaker 2: can't handle something like that. I need something where somebody's 338 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:09,439 Speaker 2: ancestor gonna come in and set everybody on fire and 339 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:11,640 Speaker 2: take you to the ancestral space and teach you how 340 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:13,479 Speaker 2: to do the spells and all this sort of stuff. 341 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 2: I need that sort of agency within it. And I 342 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:22,119 Speaker 2: also need that sort of sense of magic, because we've 343 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 2: always had these ontologies or ways of being where we 344 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 2: have this magical aspect, not about us, but that the 345 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 2: magic is possible. 346 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:35,960 Speaker 1: Ah magic or that's another element. I guess that's what 347 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 1: we really want to know. What are the specific themes 348 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:42,160 Speaker 1: in afrofuturism and are there any tropes that you should 349 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 1: really avoid. 350 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 2: I think it still has to be done well. You 351 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 2: got to do your homework, you gotta read, you got 352 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 2: to watch. Some of the best stuff is not visual 353 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 2: because for so long black folks been excluded from creating 354 00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 2: films and television shows. You got to go to the comics, 355 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 2: you got to go to the literature. You know, horror 356 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 2: is about an excess of emotion, or when black horror 357 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 2: is done well, you feel all those emotions and so 358 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:11,679 Speaker 2: it's not just anybody can get in this game. I 359 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 2: talk about that scene in which Manahatti her skin is 360 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 2: melting off of her skeleton that she burns, and I say, 361 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,639 Speaker 2: this is when horror is operating on all cylinders, that 362 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:26,879 Speaker 2: we can see the awesomeness of this something that should 363 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:30,880 Speaker 2: be considered grotesque, but we're actually crying with sadness when 364 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:33,720 Speaker 2: it's happening. We feel the empathy for her. 365 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:37,200 Speaker 1: I was definitely crying in that scene from Lovecraft Country 366 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: just too Much. Yeah, it was a really emotional scene 367 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:46,719 Speaker 1: because you know the power in it. She has to 368 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: die in this way in order for things to happen 369 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,359 Speaker 1: the way they're supposed to happen, and it's just heart 370 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: wrenching but then also powerful and pretty grotesque honestly because 371 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 1: we are watching her burn alive. I think there are 372 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 1: scenes in Black Panther that are like that for me, 373 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:09,720 Speaker 1: do you remember and get out? When oh boy takes 374 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,159 Speaker 1: that picture and that flash goes off right and that 375 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:15,360 Speaker 1: guy's like get out, like even though I've never had 376 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:17,640 Speaker 1: that exact feeling. It almost feels like when you get 377 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,680 Speaker 1: to a place. Have you ever experienced going somewhere you're like, oh, 378 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:22,679 Speaker 1: finally somebody else that looks like me, let me go 379 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: talk to them, and they're like this, ain't it right. 380 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 1: It's like those mirages in the desert. You think you 381 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 1: found an oasis, right, and it's like, Nope, that's just 382 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 1: more saying right, and your stomach drops that feeling. 383 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 2: Hm. 384 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely. And then even at the end of Get Out, 385 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: when we think the main character might be about to 386 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:44,639 Speaker 1: die and then his friend comes out and kills a 387 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 1: lady and it's like, yes, like you you're so excited, 388 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: but somebody something really like awful just happened. But you 389 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:56,639 Speaker 1: feel liberated, you know, like freedom because we know it 390 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 1: had a possibility of going a whole different way exactly 391 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 1: depending on who is in that car exactly who gets 392 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:05,440 Speaker 1: seen automatically as the threat because it was a cop 393 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:08,160 Speaker 1: car and we were like, oh, this is not gonna 394 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,879 Speaker 1: end well oh yep, but then it turns out to 395 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: be his friend and you just feel like this overwhelming 396 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:15,679 Speaker 1: sense of joy And I think this is part of 397 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: the appeal, right watching something so layered and imaginative as 398 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 1: Lovecraft makes me think I want more of this exactly. 399 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,119 Speaker 1: I think that this is set in the tone for 400 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 1: everything to come. So we ask Doctor Books about the 401 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 1: future of afrofuturism and horror. Where is it going right now? 402 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 2: There's this huge renaissance of why a literature of black 403 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 2: girls and fantasy, Black boys and fantasy. I'm now reading 404 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 2: a song of Raith and Ruin. We have Tommy Alda 405 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 2: Yemi's work. We have L. Penelope's work. We have The 406 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 2: Rage of Dragons. Ooh, we have LLL McKinney. She's done 407 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 2: this Like Black Girl. We take on Alice in Wonderland. 408 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 2: There's so much good stuff out there. I'm overwhelmed with it, 409 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:06,120 Speaker 2: but in such a good way because out of hungered 410 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:06,639 Speaker 2: for this. 411 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:10,679 Speaker 1: As a little girl, I love where it's going. I 412 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 1: think there's just so much out there, and I'm learning more. 413 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,399 Speaker 1: Our producer just told me about a documentary of black 414 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,679 Speaker 1: horror on the Shutter Channel. It's called Horror Noir. Doctor 415 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,200 Speaker 1: Brooks has a book called Searching for Sicker Acts, and 416 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 1: you should definitely check that out. And it also can 417 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 1: open the door into all types of horror. I found 418 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 1: my entry into horror, starting out with Goosebumps. Y'all remember 419 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:36,120 Speaker 1: Goosebumps and R. L. Stein. I jumped very shortly after that, 420 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 1: my mom bought me Octavia Butler and Tonan a redo. 421 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: Now that is a jump that will have you scared 422 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: in the night. I think my entry was Goosebumps, like 423 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: you said. But then also on Nickelodeon, they had a 424 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 1: show called Are You Afraid of the Dark? Yes. I 425 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:55,440 Speaker 1: love that they did these shorts where it was like 426 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:57,920 Speaker 1: a scary story, but it was like kind of kid friendly. 427 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,119 Speaker 1: There was nothing that was like super super gory, but 428 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 1: it was scary. And I think that's when I realized 429 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,160 Speaker 1: I actually like being scared, because I would have watched 430 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 1: those episodes and just be like, oh my gosh. I 431 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,919 Speaker 1: thought it was phenomenal. Yes, and I think some people 432 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: just like to be scared, you know, And there's you know, 433 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,439 Speaker 1: there's something about activating that fight or flight response that 434 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:20,440 Speaker 1: will do it for me every time, every time. But 435 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:22,879 Speaker 1: I don't want to be in danger. I want to 436 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 1: be scared, but I don't want to really be in danger. 437 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,120 Speaker 1: But I think there's something about showing all of these 438 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 1: elements of what gets considered scary, and you can teach fear, right, 439 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:34,719 Speaker 1: so we're not all scared of the same things. There 440 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,359 Speaker 1: are some things that get taught that you can be 441 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: afraid of. These scientists did this experiment, which is totally unethical, 442 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 1: but we already talked about the unethical origins of science 443 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: in Lab twenty five, but they implanted fear in this 444 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,920 Speaker 1: child and he was like irrationally afraid of white bunnies. Right, 445 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 1: because they were able to show that you can train 446 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 1: fear if you really think about it, depending on who 447 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 1: controls the narratives around scary stories, you can train fear. 448 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,199 Speaker 1: We've seen some people have been trained to be afraid 449 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:08,439 Speaker 1: of whole groups of people and their cultures. Truth. Doctor 450 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 1: Brooks really hit the nail on the head, kind of 451 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,120 Speaker 1: exposing who decides what should be scary. 452 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 2: I always talk to my students, you know, I say 453 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 2: things are about power dynamics, and I said, who does 454 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,159 Speaker 2: it empower for you to be afraid of your spiritual traditions? 455 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:26,360 Speaker 1: I always show them. 456 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 2: I show them like Thor, I show them Loki, I 457 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 2: show them Odin, and I'm like, you paying money to 458 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 2: see these non Abrahamic traditions. You take statues of Buddha 459 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:44,200 Speaker 2: and bring them into your house. You celebrate thor god 460 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 2: of Thunder, but when we bring in Shangou you scared. 461 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 2: Do you realize that you are only afraid because these 462 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 2: were traditions that gave enslaved folks power, that gave enslave 463 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 2: folks identities. So while you paying money to see one 464 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 2: and then you won't step out the room and leave. 465 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 2: When I mentioned the other power dynamics, who is empowered 466 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,120 Speaker 2: by these things existing as they are? 467 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: It ain't you. It ain't your grandmama. This is so true. 468 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 1: And when she's talking about Shango, that is an orisha 469 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: that is of the Yuruba faith, so Nigerian faith. The 470 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 1: traditions of the enslaved people and the things that they 471 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,120 Speaker 1: did to survive, so like the medicine that they created 472 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: for themselves, we've automatically said, oh, that's like devil's work. 473 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 1: But then we have people who do acupuncture, and I'm like, 474 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,960 Speaker 1: why have you decided that acupuncture is okay? But then 475 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 1: things that are from a different culture is unacceptable. We've 476 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 1: been trained to have these biases even for things that 477 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 1: are of the people that we are from. This takes 478 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,200 Speaker 1: us right to blood magic. We saw in Lovecraft Country 479 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,200 Speaker 1: the protection over that house, and then people are like, oh, 480 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 1: that's dark, that's evil. I can't believe they're showing this, 481 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 1: or that's primitive to believe these things. But if you 482 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,119 Speaker 1: believe that, you consume the body and blood of Christ 483 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,440 Speaker 1: every first Sunday of the month. If that's not blood magic, 484 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: I don't know what is. Did you see da Vinci 485 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,119 Speaker 1: code they trace the bloodline through centuries. If this is 486 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 1: not some vampire type stuff. Follow the sign of the 487 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:17,639 Speaker 1: Rose and it's about the womb. But I'm like, what 488 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 1: is going on here? The chalice is the womb, this 489 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: is too much. The uterus is a cup. We can 490 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 1: make any religious tradition look pretty grotesque and scary, but 491 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 1: if we see the beauty in everyone's culture and traditions, 492 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,680 Speaker 1: then none of it is scary. And it's just what 493 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:41,639 Speaker 1: your family, your ancestors did to survive. And you won't 494 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:43,400 Speaker 1: just do what's cool at the time. Like I see 495 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 1: all y'all buying Crystal's burness age and all these things 496 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:47,159 Speaker 1: like that, and I'm just like, Okay, well where did 497 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,120 Speaker 1: you get that from? And how come when other folks 498 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:55,160 Speaker 1: are doing communion that is also okay, But then when 499 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:59,119 Speaker 1: you have folks that believe that certain spirits or gods 500 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 1: are guiding their lives, you're like, that's crazy. Why it's 501 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,159 Speaker 1: all in the framing of rituals, And I think we 502 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,919 Speaker 1: have to break those barriers of who's credible and who's 503 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 1: approved and okay and civilized and who's not. All these 504 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: are fake markings, right. I'm of the school of if 505 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: you like it, I love it. Whatever you do, whatever 506 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 1: traditions that your family or that you're starting in your family, 507 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 1: because I realize some people might not necessarily know the 508 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 1: traditions of their people because of slavery and the loss 509 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,400 Speaker 1: of those traditions and cultures, and so you're redefining or 510 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:34,199 Speaker 1: finding those traditions. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, 511 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 1: and I think it's actually a really beautiful thing. So 512 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: that just leads us to the point that representation in 513 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 1: media is so crucial, and it's not just oh, you 514 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 1: have this one black person in this horror film or whatever. 515 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: It's about also bringing in their ancestry and culture and 516 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 1: telling their story. Just having a person of color on screen, 517 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 1: it means nothing if they don't have a fully developed 518 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 1: character that you can truly see yourself. We're not showing 519 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 1: up in dying first, we're over that. Some of the 520 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 1: characters that I think of when I think of black 521 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 1: folks and representation in like science fiction and horror and 522 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 1: things like that, I go all the way back to 523 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 1: Star Trek. My dad is a huge Star Trek fan, 524 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 1: and so I've watched a lot of Star Trek. I 525 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: would not have guessed that about mister Sho Dia, right, 526 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: but he is, like, he's a big fan. He loves 527 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 1: Star Trek and Star Wars and all everything that science fiction. 528 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: And so one of the first black folks I know, 529 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,480 Speaker 1: he wasn't Thief first, because there was Uhura in the 530 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 1: original Star Trek series. It was Michelle Nichols and people 531 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 1: loved her. I mean it was she was perfect in 532 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 1: that role. But I also remember, and the character that 533 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 1: has the strongest tie in my mind was Jordie LaForge 534 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 1: from Star Trek the Next Generation, and that was played 535 00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 1: by LeVar Burton. A lot of you guys know him 536 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 1: as the Reading Rainbow guy or depending on your generation, 537 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:07,959 Speaker 1: a Kuntakine from Roots right, and he was so so 538 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 1: critical to my love for Star Trek because he was 539 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 1: like one of the only black characters I've ever seen, 540 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 1: and so I really loved him being a part of 541 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 1: the story and them telling his story and his perspective 542 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: and all the things that he brought to the table. 543 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: Because representation is so important, Well, hold on to your 544 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 1: sock s teat, because we got a little surprise for. 545 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 3: You, hey ttn. Zakia LeVar Burton here dropping into this 546 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 3: week's edition of Dope Labs to talk about representation in 547 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 3: the genre. You know, I have believed for a long 548 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 3: time that there is a sort of a cellular line, 549 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 3: not sellular, but sollular line that begins for me with 550 00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 3: Kuntakine at one end, and at the other end is 551 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 3: Jeordie LaForge. And in the middle of that soul line, 552 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 3: if you will, is LeVar and the reading Rainbow guy. 553 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,160 Speaker 3: And I say that to say that my journey in 554 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:24,800 Speaker 3: media has been one that I never could have predicted. 555 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 3: And in these three roles it becomes really clear to 556 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:34,720 Speaker 3: me that my destiny path has been about representation in 557 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 3: modern media, in modern storytelling, making sure that we were 558 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 3: there right. Being a black man on PBS and representing 559 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:54,880 Speaker 3: for literacy and the written word meant an enormous lot 560 00:31:55,000 --> 00:32:00,200 Speaker 3: to me the son of an English teacher. So yes, 561 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 3: I believe that representation more than matters, it is essential 562 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 3: for culture to realize its full potential for the people. 563 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 1: This made me very emotional listening to that, because I 564 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,400 Speaker 1: feel like he has. LaVar Burton has been such a 565 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:21,239 Speaker 1: huge part of my life, Like I feel like at 566 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 1: every stage he has been a part of it, And 567 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 1: him being on screen has been so important to my 568 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 1: love of science, science fiction, anything futuristic, and I feel 569 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:38,040 Speaker 1: like he has had influence on such a huge influence 570 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 1: on that space. So hearing from him and hearing him 571 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 1: talking straight to us is well, I don't even know 572 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,440 Speaker 1: what to do. Doctor Brooks and LeVar Burton gave us 573 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:51,600 Speaker 1: their thoughts on the future of storytelling. 574 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:53,720 Speaker 2: I'm interested in what the art is going to look 575 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 2: like fifteen twenty years from now because it's influenced a 576 00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 2: new generation. 577 00:32:58,000 --> 00:32:59,200 Speaker 1: It's gonna be so good. 578 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 3: One of the things for me about this modern age 579 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 3: of digital storytelling is that no one can prevent you 580 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 3: from telling your story. If you have a desire, you 581 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 3: have the tools at your disposal to not only make 582 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 3: your story, but to also get your story seen, to 583 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 3: distribute your story through social media, and you know, and 584 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 3: by any other means necessary. So I think we are 585 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 3: in an age of the democratization of content creation, both 586 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:46,440 Speaker 3: in print and in video visual storytelling, and yet we 587 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 3: still have so much further that we can go. Obviously, 588 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 3: it's a long way before we get to equity in 589 00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 3: the diversity of the stories that we tell. 590 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:16,799 Speaker 1: That's it for Lab thirty four, but we have so 591 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,440 Speaker 1: much more for you to dig into. On our website 592 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:23,400 Speaker 1: Dope Labs podcast dot com, click on cheat sheets and 593 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:25,440 Speaker 1: go write to Lab thirty four. We want to hear 594 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:27,600 Speaker 1: from you. Leave a comment. On our website, you can 595 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 1: find a cheat sheet for today's lab, along with a 596 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 1: ton of other links and resources in the show notes. 597 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 1: And if you want to stay in the know with 598 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,840 Speaker 1: Dope Labs, don't forget to sign up for our newsletter 599 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,360 Speaker 1: on our site too special thanks to our guest expert, 600 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 1: doctor kinnietcher Brooks. Follow her on Twitter at k eight 601 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,879 Speaker 1: dee one six and for even more links to our work, 602 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,399 Speaker 1: check out our show notes. Also, we'd love hearing from you. 603 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:51,719 Speaker 1: What did you think about today's lab? Do you have 604 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:55,319 Speaker 1: ideas for future labs? Call us at two zero two 605 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,359 Speaker 1: five six seven seven zero two eight and let us know. 606 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,600 Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter and Instagram at Dope Labs. 607 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 1: Podcast tt is on Twitter at d R Underscore t 608 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,480 Speaker 1: s h O, and you can find Zakiya at z Said. 609 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:11,279 Speaker 1: So follow us on Spotify or wherever else you listen 610 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,440 Speaker 1: to podcasts. Dope Labs is produced by Jenny rattlet Mast 611 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,879 Speaker 1: and Lydia Smith of waver Runner Studios. Mixing and sound 612 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 1: design are by Hannes Brown. Our theme music is by 613 00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:25,120 Speaker 1: Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Sugiura, with additional music by Elijah 614 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,319 Speaker 1: Lex Harvey. Dope Labs is a production of Spotify and 615 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,919 Speaker 1: Mega Ohn Media Group, and it's executive produced by us 616 00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,040 Speaker 1: T T Show, Dia and Zakiah Wattley.