Speaker 1: Welcome to We talk Back Podcast, the production of iHeartRadio
Speaker 1: and the Black Effect Network.
Speaker 2: We're just two unapologetically black women with an opinion who talks.
Speaker 1: What's up, y'all? Thank you for tuning in for a
Speaker 1: new episode We talk Back, a show dedicated to you
Speaker 1: dreamers and chasers. This is your co host a j
Speaker 1: Helly Thing. What's that?
Speaker 2: Tam Bam? Hey, y'all. I love y'all. This shiit dedicated
Speaker 2: to niggas and hosts. This week period.
Speaker 1: What's going on? Joy?
Speaker 2: How's your weekend? Uh?
Speaker 1: What the fuck was this? What did I do this
Speaker 1: past weekend? I did go see Bad Boys?
Speaker 2: Oh? What do you think? I saw it too?
Speaker 1: It was you know, I don't know. Okay, all right,
Speaker 1: here we go, y'all. Okay, it's a pre warning. I
Speaker 1: just can't watch Martin Laurence act because I really feel
Speaker 1: like somebody has like some strings on him and like
Speaker 1: pulling him. It's like a puppe tear type thing going on.
Speaker 1: And it was just some questionable things they had him doing,
Speaker 1: like showing his ass on the roof, and it's just
Speaker 1: I just feel like the old Martin Lawrence would never
Speaker 1: even though he plays shit ain't a and all these
Speaker 1: other female characters like we ain't never seen Martin ask, Okay,
Speaker 1: what the fuck is going on? Marn was a real
Speaker 1: nigga on a kid and play on house party and
Speaker 1: shit like still a real nigga on the Martin Show,
Speaker 1: like it ain't ask nah dog, I don't know what's
Speaker 1: going on?
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 1: But and then I also didn't like the fucking hit
Speaker 1: Black Hair, Like we know y'all niggas is older black gentleman. Now, okay,
Speaker 1: we're all playing hair.
Speaker 2: What did you like about the movie?
Speaker 1: It was like an ai as fuck. It was some
Speaker 1: funny parts.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: My my pupils was like, what's the movie funny? And
Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, people hadn't ask me did I
Speaker 1: like the movie? And I'm like, I don't know. It
Speaker 1: definitely wasn't Bad Boys one through two, one through three.
Speaker 1: I'll say that I enjoyed.
Speaker 2: I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it. I loved the nostalgia
Speaker 2: of this brand bringing it back and keeping the story going.
Speaker 2: I love Mexican Chris Brown. Fun it was funny. Who
Speaker 2: is that nigga or a person? I don't even know
Speaker 2: if he's black, but he is you to fall. I
Speaker 2: love watching him. I love the part where Reggie, yeah
Speaker 2: that video game. It was like, oh your family, and
Speaker 2: he got he killed everybody. I was like, oh, Hercules, Hercules, Yes,
Speaker 2: let him cook that chicken. He could cook everything.
Speaker 1: I thought they were gonna come back at the end
Speaker 1: and be like, damn, this chicken actually real good. Like
Speaker 1: I thought it was going to be like one little
Speaker 1: last piece. But now that was my favorite partner. Reggie
Speaker 1: was cutting up in the house, killing everybody.
Speaker 2: But here's the thing for me, So during that part,
Speaker 2: what't they didn't they have another singing? Like because in
Speaker 2: the in three, they rushed to the hospital because she
Speaker 2: was giving birth Martin Lawrence's daughter, Martin Lawrence. In the
Speaker 2: opening scene of three, they're flying through the city streets
Speaker 2: of Miami, driving on the beach and everything to get
Speaker 2: to the hospital because she was giving birth to a child. Right,
Speaker 2: where was that kid in this one? Right? That kid
Speaker 2: just disappeared, that baby like RAINA. I don't nobody give
Speaker 2: a fuck about.
Speaker 3: Raynam to help.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't remember movies like you do, so
Speaker 1: I don't even I remember it now since you say
Speaker 1: like that that was the opening scene, But I didn't
Speaker 1: even think about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because even even in the end of the third one,
Speaker 2: Mike Laurie was babysitting for a few days so Martin
Speaker 2: and his wife could go off and have a retreat.
Speaker 1: Exactly Okay, where did the baby go? Like maybe the
Speaker 1: writers don't didn't even remember they was like, fuck.
Speaker 2: That baby, it's a new story. And then another thing
Speaker 2: that I wonder why they change Martin's wife. I'm a
Speaker 2: fan of the woman who played Martin's wife in this movie.
Speaker 2: She plays in a lot of things. She plays angry
Speaker 2: black woman and everything.
Speaker 1: And her twin. I didn't even realize she was a
Speaker 1: twin fall very long.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's a twin. Does her sister act as well?
Speaker 2: I think?
Speaker 4: So?
Speaker 2: Oh, I did not know that we might be seeing
Speaker 2: them both and don't even know it, like Tya and Tamara.
Speaker 2: God damn. But the woman who had originally paid played
Speaker 2: his wife. She was also on Girl six that's a
Speaker 2: Spike Lee movie, and I loved her as the wife,
Speaker 2: so I wonder why she didn't participate in the movie.
Speaker 2: But other than that, I really enjoyed it. I went
Speaker 2: on a blind date and he was late, so I
Speaker 2: went ahead. In the movie, without him. And then he
Speaker 2: came in and I had got me some popcorn and
Speaker 2: some chocolate because that's what I enjoy when I'm in
Speaker 2: the movies. And he was like, judge me talking about
Speaker 2: all you eat. You put that processed food in your body. Boy,
Speaker 2: watch the movie and get right, because this is really
Speaker 2: the only time I eat popcorn. Like right, that's what
Speaker 2: I said. I was like, this is the only time
Speaker 2: I would eat this is in a movie, So relax.
Speaker 1: Who's the guy? Like, how do you mean a blind date?
Speaker 1: Did you meet him on a dating.
Speaker 2: Website or something Instagram?
Speaker 1: Oh shit?
Speaker 2: He had muscles and shit.
Speaker 1: So I was like, okay, but and he came there
Speaker 1: judging your fitness.
Speaker 2: He came and judging my dietary choices, Like damn, you
Speaker 2: just got here, sit down, you late? Ain't you judging? Nigga? Shame?
Speaker 2: I was because I offer he something. He was like, oh,
Speaker 2: I would never put nothing like that in my body.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, here we go. I'll never put
Speaker 2: you in my body, so so here we go. Let's
Speaker 2: get him a sense. Oh wait, wait, wait, I didn't
Speaker 2: talk about my weekend. I thought that was it. Like,
Speaker 2: go ahead. I went back to YACHTI Body by YACHTI
Speaker 2: Artemis and Apollo for my third round of radio frequency,
Speaker 2: and this time I got my chin radio frequency and
Speaker 2: it's skinnier. Let me see.
Speaker 1: It, dude, look a little Okay, I can see some definition.
Speaker 2: Wait a minute, Wait a minute, shit working bitch. I
Speaker 2: got a minute because my turkey neck looking more like
Speaker 2: a chicken neck right now? Okay, started profile. Okay, yes,
Speaker 2: I finally get one.
Speaker 1: So this is a non evasive procedure. What is the
Speaker 1: cost of something like that? Like what I because I
Speaker 1: I think I might have googled some shit and I've
Speaker 1: actually done like some laser or something before, but I
Speaker 1: don't think it was that.
Speaker 2: It's affordable. It's not very expensive, but it ain't cheap either,
Speaker 2: But it it's affordable. You know, It's way more affordable
Speaker 2: than getting liposuction or pdo threads or ky bella, which
Speaker 2: I've done all of those, and none of that ship worked,
Speaker 2: none of them. This is the only thing that I've
Speaker 2: done actually seeing now that I don't know, I don't
Speaker 2: know how you have to ask yachty, So is it
Speaker 2: like y'all in.
Speaker 1: The fat sales to where it like over time? Is
Speaker 1: it something you have to continuously.
Speaker 2: It has it has something to do with like collagen
Speaker 2: reproduction and heat and some ship. She said, y'all gotta
Speaker 2: ask YACHTI like, go to the yachty page body by yachty.
Speaker 2: She got all the answers to that question. But my
Speaker 2: turkey neck is gone, y'all, it's almost gone. And I
Speaker 2: only did one time, so imagine after three, my shit
Speaker 2: gonna be snatched.
Speaker 1: So yeah, y'all, chins, I said.
Speaker 2: For the summer period, y'all, let's get in the sins.
Speaker 1: Okay. So now y'all remember recent tisa which recent Teasaine
Speaker 1: died down child for When was that, like, uh, I
Speaker 1: don't know, February or so when that came out or
Speaker 1: earlier than that anyway. So now there's another girl who
Speaker 1: just put out a little story time. She actually called
Speaker 1: it trauma dump because she ain't like Resa teach this
Speaker 1: a real nigga, okay. And she was telling a story
Speaker 1: about how she didn't find out that her best friend
Speaker 1: of ten years had the same baby daddy as her
Speaker 1: until their baby showers. So she was she had a
Speaker 1: boyfriend right that she had been dating for three years.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna just give y'all A quick little yeah. So
Speaker 1: she had a boyfriend she had been dating for three years,
Speaker 1: and she had a best friend who she had known,
Speaker 1: you know for about ten years or so. So she
Speaker 1: said she had helped her friend out, you know, going
Speaker 1: through a rough past. She was living in her mom,
Speaker 1: so she let her come stay to her house, and
Speaker 1: she just feel like, maybe that's when this thing might
Speaker 1: have happened. But let's just fast forward. Fuck the backstory.
Speaker 1: So they're both pregnant now, right. Her friend says, I'm pregnant.
Speaker 1: I had a one night stand. I don't know, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. I don't know what I'm gonna
Speaker 1: do whatever, but I'm gonna go ahead and I'm gonna
Speaker 1: still have this baby. She's pregnant for her man. She
Speaker 1: knows who her baby daddy is, right, So she has
Speaker 1: her baby shower one day. The friend told her she
Speaker 1: wasn't having a baby shower, you know, because she just
Speaker 1: stressed out about the whole situation. This, that, and the third.
Speaker 1: So some mutual friends asked her what she attending so
Speaker 1: and Soul's baby shower, and She'm like, wait, that bitch
Speaker 1: told me she ain't having no baby shower. Now this
Speaker 1: is somebody they was naming their kids the same middle name.
Speaker 1: I'm your godmom, you're my baby's godmom. Like this is like,
Speaker 1: my bitch, this is like me and you having some
Speaker 1: fucking kids and were pregnant at the same time situation.
Speaker 1: But somebody being a weird Yes, so she says, her
Speaker 1: and her friends they shared locations, So she said, the
Speaker 1: dumb bitch didn't turn off for a location, so she
Speaker 1: went and see, like, what's the location. On that date,
Speaker 1: she was at her grandma house. The baby, her friend's
Speaker 1: baby showers at the grandma house. She gets there and
Speaker 1: see her baby daddy's car outside. She goes in his mama, dad,
Speaker 1: grandma there like the same people who was at her
Speaker 1: shit the day before. So everybody knew but her that
Speaker 1: her man had her best friend pregnant, had her baby
Speaker 1: shower the day before, so she called her cousins. When
Speaker 1: she saw his car side, she called her family and
Speaker 1: she was like, she come from a long line of
Speaker 1: crash dummies. Okay, So everybody pulled the fuck up and
Speaker 1: they went in there. They took all the girl presents, okay,
Speaker 1: they had mama and the headlock. She smacked the bitch,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. They got the fuck out
Speaker 1: of there, so right, and she said when they all
Speaker 1: like congregated back at her house to like discuss what
Speaker 1: was happening, and she said she was calling her brother
Speaker 1: because they never her brother never showed up because the brother,
Speaker 1: the baby daddy ran out the side door when she
Speaker 1: pulled up, he ran. Okay, so the baby her brother
Speaker 1: never showed up because they're chasing the baby daddy on
Speaker 1: the highway. They caught the nigga, like, so he runs
Speaker 1: out of gas running from them. It's a whole Like
Speaker 1: this shit is so fucking funny to me because come
Speaker 1: to find out now after two years now, she said,
Speaker 1: when she when they were now because they had the
Speaker 1: baby showers at six months pregnant, and technically her, her girlfriend,
Speaker 1: her homegirl, got pregnant before her. So you got my
Speaker 1: friend pregnant and then got me pregnant, right, so her
Speaker 1: the girl they're both six months though at the time,
Speaker 1: and they talk. They finally talk after the baby shower
Speaker 1: tobacco and all this shit, and she was like the
Speaker 1: girl store wasn't really trying to take no accountability. And
Speaker 1: she also said she wasn't sure if the dude was
Speaker 1: her baby daddy or not. So fast forward two years later,
Speaker 1: DNA tests because another nigga hits the baby daddy up
Speaker 1: like she told me, this was my kid type thing.
Speaker 1: This is not even this man's child.
Speaker 2: M he did fuck, he did hit right, But that
Speaker 2: ain't They're so try Can you imagine? Could you imagine? No? No,
Speaker 2: I could not imagine that. I couldn't think of anybody
Speaker 2: that I'm close with doing some shit like that to me.
Speaker 1: I have friends, I have people who I'm no longer
Speaker 1: friends with, and I can almost expect that from them
Speaker 1: people after the things that have transpired after the friendships. Yes,
Speaker 1: I would be like that person might be capable of
Speaker 1: some shit like that, because people, that's all the time.
Speaker 2: That's insane right there, having a baby shower, like what
Speaker 2: you was gonna do, try to hide the baby forever
Speaker 2: from your best friend? You was gonna have them on
Speaker 2: playdates and acting like you don't know who the dad is,
Speaker 2: Like how was you supposed to do this?
Speaker 1: How and what was it that.
Speaker 2: They go to looking alike? And shit, you know what
Speaker 2: it turned out not being his but still yeah, not
Speaker 2: just his family all complicit.
Speaker 1: That's who I would really be paused back because she
Speaker 1: was like, she didn't really get along with his family
Speaker 1: like that, so I guess they probably And actually he said,
Speaker 1: she said that the boyfriend told her that he had
Speaker 1: told his mom, and his mom told him not to
Speaker 1: tell her. Why are you doing that to another woman?
Speaker 2: Yeah? My question is now, did she get back with
Speaker 2: that nigga? Did she stay with him?
Speaker 1: She said? And I know y'all can't ask it, but
Speaker 1: hell no, I stayed ten tolls down on that nigga.
Speaker 1: And she was like, why would you even you imagine
Speaker 1: like me and you, I tell you all my people business,
Speaker 1: like you probably know the ins and out of whatever relationship, right,
Speaker 1: So imagine you're still fucking on this dude knowing he
Speaker 1: ain't shit and getting pregnant for him, right, because you
Speaker 1: really want my ship. That's really it's not about the
Speaker 1: man at that point, like you want to.
Speaker 2: Be you're jealous of me? Yeah, you're jealous, that's all.
Speaker 1: I can I don't I don't understand, like, why you
Speaker 1: signing up the struggle along with me? You already know
Speaker 1: I'm probably in a bad situation.
Speaker 2: Going through it. But she was don't care she didn't feel.
Speaker 1: Bad about taking all the gifts and ship because the
Speaker 1: baby is innocent. But that's not even his kid.
Speaker 2: Sometimes the sister the parrot all on the child because
Speaker 2: child listen, And so, y'all, I don't think I wouldn't
Speaker 2: have hit her in that moment though, I'm not hitting
Speaker 2: a pregnant woman. But as soon as that baby mutual combat,
Speaker 2: as soon as both of us dropped these loads, I'm
Speaker 2: coming to see about you.
Speaker 1: I definitely would have fought that bitch.
Speaker 2: Right then and there. No, because I'd be worried about
Speaker 2: my own No, not pregnant.
Speaker 1: I would have waited. I definitely would have waited. I'm
Speaker 1: patient with revenge, very patient.
Speaker 2: I definitely would have been patient. I definitely was gonna
Speaker 2: beat that bitch ut once some baby drops, yeah, because
Speaker 2: just a slap ain't enough easy. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So look, did y'all did y'all know that the original
Speaker 1: use for light saw wasn't just like for you know,
Speaker 1: surface disinfectant and shit like that. So apparently in the
Speaker 1: early nineteen hundreds, there's a lot of different You can
Speaker 1: actually google this, okay. You could find advertisement to people
Speaker 1: to women for the use of liesol as a feminine
Speaker 1: hygiene product. Okay, say what now, you women with spraying
Speaker 1: a kuchi with lysol in the early nineteen hundreds.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Now, Lyesol is a product of Germany, which a lot
Speaker 1: of products are. And I have my theories, you know,
Speaker 1: because we talk about Nazi Germany. Okay, a lot of
Speaker 1: y'all be confused in Nazis with Russia. But the Nazis
Speaker 1: came out of Germany, so this is where you get
Speaker 1: your high fructose corn syrup and shit like that.
Speaker 2: They created all these.
Speaker 1: Fucked up things that we still use in America to
Speaker 1: this day.
Speaker 2: I ain't never sprayed lights al on my pussy, No
Speaker 2: me neither.
Speaker 1: But when I spray light saw, it really affects my breathing.
Speaker 1: Like if I spray light saw, I step out the
Speaker 1: room immediately.
Speaker 2: Girl I used to I'm still not as much as
Speaker 2: I used to be. But one of them black people
Speaker 2: that I pul ajx light. Soolt bitch you about cause
Speaker 2: the chemical file, all purpose cleaner, awesome, all in the
Speaker 2: tub at once be about the.
Speaker 1: Fat girl chemical suffocation. So they market it like the
Speaker 1: advertisement shows like you know, for to be fresh, smell
Speaker 1: fresh or whatever. But really because at that time, contraceptives
Speaker 1: were illegal. It was really for induced to abortion is
Speaker 1: with the lightsaw.
Speaker 2: So they'd be squirting it up there pussy to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, rm cells and ship like this.
Speaker 2: Listen, listen, y'all. Don't get no fucking ideas off of this.
Speaker 2: Listen to this. That shit is not gonna work today.
Speaker 2: So don't do it. If you're listening this, that's not
Speaker 2: how it works, baby.
Speaker 1: Girl, don't do it. Don't do it.
Speaker 2: Go get your morning after pilsils. Don't sprain, no lights
Speaker 2: out like I got some lights all right here? No,
Speaker 2: don't do that. Yeah, goodness, lad you know. It's all
Speaker 2: kind of practices that were in the early nineteen hundreds
Speaker 2: that just now you're looking back, you're like, wow, that
Speaker 2: was insane because they used to like go to the
Speaker 2: doctor to get fingered.
Speaker 1: That's really not insane because vibrators didn't exist at that time.
Speaker 1: And like I always say, like I feel like female
Speaker 1: orgasms is like a new age thing. Niggas did not
Speaker 1: give a fuck if he was coming in on. So
Speaker 1: you're bitch is just wilding out at the house with hysteria, right,
Speaker 1: that's hysteria.
Speaker 2: So and then she gets fingered, go to the doctor
Speaker 2: to make her come right quick, right, and now she's
Speaker 2: back to nor I saw Cuchie right that part.
Speaker 1: Ye'ah. Let's talk about Tiana Taylor and Emon Schumpert for
Speaker 1: a second. This was a couple of goals just you know,
Speaker 1: a little while ago last year year before, they had
Speaker 1: a beautiful like engagement video.
Speaker 2: We saw all the good things they got, these two
Speaker 2: beautiful kids. They basically had the.
Speaker 1: Same baby twice. But now and they again a divorce
Speaker 1: and it's and it seems like it's real nasty. I
Speaker 1: feel like Tianna Taylor was trying to keep it under
Speaker 1: wraps because the first person I saw come out about
Speaker 1: it was this nigga. Okay, and Tianna Taylor did put
Speaker 1: out a post one saying that she was trying to
Speaker 1: keep it sealed. So he was the one that was
Speaker 1: putting on information about what was all in divorce. But
Speaker 1: now more every week there's some new ship coming out.
Speaker 1: So apparently this nigga wants everything back. Give me my jewelry.
Speaker 1: I'm on gifting that condo. This is the statements he's
Speaker 1: been making in court and shit or mediation or whatever.
Speaker 2: Do we want to get married, girl, I'm scared.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna just tell you this is my last motherfucking
Speaker 1: relationship and it's a refurbished one. Okay, so this shit
Speaker 1: don't fucking work. Now, I'm outside until nineteen I mean,
Speaker 1: I say, nineteen ninety nine, until ninety nine. I'm outside
Speaker 1: until ninety nine forever, I'm outside, Like I feel like
Speaker 1: after you have conversations with women who have been married,
Speaker 1: who have children, failed relationships, they be a lot more
Speaker 1: happier by themselves a lot of times, because you know,
Speaker 1: like niggas like to talk shit like, oh, you're gonna
Speaker 1: die alone. Okay, nigga, We're gonna die alone regardless, because
Speaker 1: your ass is dying first anyway.
Speaker 2: So I don't know that women outlive men. You're right,
Speaker 2: they do, you know, live.
Speaker 1: Mess them out probably die sooner.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But I just hate that for them because they
Speaker 2: did have like such a beautiful family and now it's
Speaker 2: being dissolved for the same reasons that you know, a
Speaker 2: lot of relationships, and I just do you know, I
Speaker 2: try to be hopeful for myself and maybe I'm waiting
Speaker 2: as long because my next person will be my forever person.
Speaker 1: But it so you do it at fifty bitch, fuck you.
Speaker 2: Better be forever.
Speaker 1: Finally got a boyfriend at sixty, ain't god but a
Speaker 1: good thirty lit years left.
Speaker 2: But I don't care.
Speaker 1: I've been telling my mom all the time. I don't
Speaker 1: give a fuck up. I'm a hundred. If I ain't happy,
Speaker 1: I'm getting the fuck up out of there early, early,
Speaker 1: and so I don't give grace anymore. I'm sorry. Not
Speaker 1: in relationships, I don't like. I don't feel like that
Speaker 1: shit no more. I feel like we are at this
Speaker 1: big age. We know exactly who we are for the
Speaker 1: most part, right, because you still got room for you grow,
Speaker 1: still grown.
Speaker 2: Right, But.
Speaker 1: I know you, you know me, We should be able
Speaker 1: to from the very beginning, can I deal with this person?
Speaker 3: And not?
Speaker 1: Because that's all a relationship business. How much shit you
Speaker 1: could deal with from another motherfucker, that's all of it, right,
Speaker 1: And once you can't deal with some shit, it's over with.
Speaker 1: But I just, yeah, I'm out of there at one
Speaker 1: hundred if need be.
Speaker 3: So.
Speaker 2: I hate when it get nasty like that, like Simon
Speaker 2: and Porsche. That shit getting ugly too, Yes, it's getting
Speaker 2: real ugly.
Speaker 1: Who the fuck is Porsche? Who the fuck was she
Speaker 1: married to?
Speaker 2: Like? Who?
Speaker 1: What's his real name? Is that the real name? Or
Speaker 1: is it what's the name? Is that the name he
Speaker 1: stayed in the country with, Like, what's the name? Girl?
Speaker 2: Who the fuck?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 2: I hate that for her. I really hate that.
Speaker 1: For her because just the year before, she was sitting
Speaker 1: on stage at the Black Effect Podcast Festival, and you know,
Speaker 1: she did a segment before we talk back, and we
Speaker 1: was talking about the shrimp and being tied at a
Speaker 1: shrimp and can't you be with one person forever? Like
Speaker 1: it's just like, like, I mean, I'm pretty she had
Speaker 1: to say the things. But shortly thereafter, here we are.
Speaker 2: Here we are. Man, that's scary, y'all. Y'all got a
Speaker 2: good one. Hold on to him tight, baby, because if
Speaker 2: you don't and y'all break up and he good, I'm
Speaker 2: coming to get his ass. I said to God.
Speaker 1: All the good ones and miserable relationships, all good ones
Speaker 1: trying to figure out how they can lead us, bitch
Speaker 1: and still have access to their kids. I know some
Speaker 1: I know, yes, man, I know some men who are
Speaker 1: really getting ran through by bad women. It's not a
Speaker 1: gender neutral thing, like you got bad people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, speaking of gender neutral, our conversation today is about
Speaker 2: gender identity. And we have a trance guest on today,
Speaker 2: so y'all stay tuned cause we're gonna have a really
Speaker 2: good conversation about trans issues. We'll be right back. Okay, guys,
Speaker 2: we are back. And last week we had Flame and
Speaker 2: Row on and I mentioned that one of my good
Speaker 2: friends had a trans son and I was very ignorant
Speaker 2: about trans people. And Flame said that because she was
Speaker 2: an older generation trans person, younger generation trans people hated
Speaker 2: her pretty much. So I feel like it would be
Speaker 2: good to get my friend's son on so we can
Speaker 2: have the conversation, so I can get better educated, and
Speaker 2: so can you, guys. So welcome Michael Hogan till we
Speaker 2: talk back. Thank you for joining us. I appreciate you
Speaker 2: taking time out to do this. Your mama said you
Speaker 2: wouldn't do it, so I'm surprised that you came on. No.
Speaker 4: I when she asked me, I was like, oh, yeah, sure,
Speaker 4: and she was like, really, I believe it.
Speaker 2: She was surprised. Okay, So I have some questions for you.
Speaker 2: If you feel like it's just too much, be like, girl, no,
Speaker 2: don't do that, okay, And that's okay. I won't be
Speaker 2: offended and let me just put the disclaimer out there
Speaker 2: is I'm pretty ignorant. Okay, So if the question sounds
Speaker 2: stupid or dumb or just girl, what the fuck you
Speaker 2: talk about? Please correct me at any time. Okay.
Speaker 3: I promise you. I've heard worse.
Speaker 1: Okay, and everything is coming, you know, with love when
Speaker 1: we talked back.
Speaker 2: Okay. Period. That's the part that we need to say first.
Speaker 2: All right, let's get into it. What is the difference
Speaker 2: between being trans and gay? Or is there a difference?
Speaker 3: It's not, damn right, like.
Speaker 1: Some questions to know about him first, God, damn go ahead, baby,
Speaker 1: I told you.
Speaker 2: Just don't get into it.
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I would definitely say that there's a difference.
Speaker 4: First of all, I mean, we get two separate letters
Speaker 4: in the LGBT acronym. But most of all, you know,
Speaker 4: I find that, you know, gender and sexuality are just
Speaker 4: completely separate, you know, like how you see yourself, how
Speaker 4: you want to present yourself, how I want people to
Speaker 4: see you. It's completely different from who you are romantically
Speaker 4: and sexually attracted to. So yes, they're they're very different things.
Speaker 2: Hmmm.
Speaker 1: Interesting.
Speaker 4: I mean, you guys, did everybody watch Orange, The New Orange,
Speaker 4: The New Black? On Netflix. Okay, well, this happens in
Speaker 4: the first season. They're the trans woman. Laverne Cox plays her. Okay,
Speaker 4: when she transitions, she still wants to be married to
Speaker 4: her wife, like it just had nothing to do with
Speaker 4: who she was attracted to. It just was about how
Speaker 4: she wanted to be seen, right.
Speaker 1: Okay, same thing with Flay Monroe. So he excuse me,
Speaker 1: well she I mean he does. He goes, he doesn't
Speaker 1: really subscribe to the pronouns and all that stuff. Right,
Speaker 1: So her partner, his partner is a woman, genetically born woman, right,
Speaker 1: and then she also has children, so I don't know.
Speaker 1: We never got into what she does now.
Speaker 2: She says she doesn't like to be called a boy,
Speaker 2: so she yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, I don't remember that.
Speaker 2: Okay, remember us why I feel stressed out a little bit.
Speaker 2: The pronouns really stressed me out, and I'll be like
Speaker 2: feeling bad when I fuck it up. I'll be feeling
Speaker 2: really bad when I fuck up with someone's pronouns. And
Speaker 2: it's never intentional. It's just what I see with my
Speaker 2: eyes versus what a person wants to be called is
Speaker 2: just conflicting in me, and it's hard to like because
Speaker 2: I want to acknowledge people as what they want to
Speaker 2: identify as. But then there's this disconnect between my brain
Speaker 2: and their identity and it sucks up sometime. Not on purpose, though.
Speaker 4: A lot of people feel that way. A lot of
Speaker 4: people feel that way.
Speaker 1: Okay, I can even understand that they them when the
Speaker 1: person isn't around, right, So like if I'm talking about
Speaker 1: like we're talking about flame, right, they aren't currently here, Like,
Speaker 1: it's easy to use as they them in that sense,
Speaker 1: in that tense, but when the person is right there,
Speaker 1: how do you do that?
Speaker 5: Well?
Speaker 4: They it's all psychological because, like like you said, like
Speaker 4: what your brain perceives the person as might be different
Speaker 4: from what they want to be called. But I found
Speaker 4: that in my experience, the more trans people I've been
Speaker 4: around over the years, the easier it has been. Like my,
Speaker 4: you know, your whole brain framework of how you view
Speaker 4: gender just ends up changing a little bit different. Yeah,
Speaker 4: So it's it's not I don't struggle people pronounced ever anymore,
Speaker 4: just because I'm around so many trans people that it's
Speaker 4: just it's easy. You know, someone tells me and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 4: now I see you as what you told.
Speaker 1: Me as and that's what I said last week. I
Speaker 1: don't really, you know, encounter too many trans people, like
Speaker 1: I know bisexual women, I know gay men, you know,
Speaker 1: so whatever. They usually like the gay men, especially as
Speaker 1: our age group older, they don't mind being still called
Speaker 1: a boy. He whatever. It's not really that confusing. So
Speaker 1: I don't I'm not really around that many trans people.
Speaker 1: I can see like if I were, it would be
Speaker 1: it would come much easier. So I just wanted to
Speaker 1: get into a little bit about you and you're a
Speaker 1: background because I know you're a young person. Okay, so
Speaker 1: you might not have a whole lot in your background.
Speaker 1: You just told me, he told me going into the
Speaker 1: third year of college. Okay, how's that on a college campus?
Speaker 1: Or are there a lot of Are there a lot
Speaker 1: of trans people on your college campus?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 4: Yes, so I go to an art school in a city.
Speaker 4: So it's weirder to find a person who was like
Speaker 4: straight and sisunder than it is to find a person
Speaker 4: who is not some flavor of LGBT. So yes, I'm
Speaker 4: constantly surrounded by people who are queer on a daily basis.
Speaker 2: So, okay, explain what is queer.
Speaker 4: Queer is an umbrella term for LGBT. So a queer
Speaker 4: person could be a lesbian, could be a gay man,
Speaker 4: could be bisexual, could be trans, could be anything underneath
Speaker 4: the LGBT umbrella.
Speaker 3: It's just an umbrella term.
Speaker 2: So if I got my cutia by a girl, am
Speaker 2: I queer?
Speaker 4: If you identify as queer, then yes, Okay, it's a choice.
Speaker 4: It's a personal choice. There's like a lot of you know,
Speaker 4: older LGBT people who don't identify with that term because
Speaker 4: it was used as a slur back in the day,
Speaker 4: but a lot of younger people have reclaimed it.
Speaker 3: But it's really just up to you.
Speaker 2: So it's kind of like nigga and nigger.
Speaker 3: Yes, essentially a little less controversial.
Speaker 1: But yes, is it.
Speaker 3: It's the same principle.
Speaker 1: So at what point did you realize you were a
Speaker 1: trans man? Have you felt this way your entire.
Speaker 4: Life to some degree, yes, I definitely feel like I mean,
Speaker 4: even as like a little little kid like I always
Speaker 4: wanted to be a boy, like, I felt very strongly
Speaker 4: about it, but I knew that that wasn't the case.
Speaker 4: It was always you know, put your earing zone before
Speaker 4: we go out or else I'm not taking you out.
Speaker 4: Like things things like that, But it really wasn't until
Speaker 4: puberty that I really started to feel like any like
Speaker 4: anguish about it, you know, and throughout the first like
Speaker 4: couple of years of because I hit puberty very early.
Speaker 4: It was around like third or fourth grade, like way
Speaker 4: quicker than everybody else. If you look at like my
Speaker 4: elementary school pictures, I'm like a head taller than every
Speaker 4: other student. So it was early for me, and I
Speaker 4: was just like very sad all the time until around
Speaker 4: like fifth grade when I heard of the concept. I
Speaker 4: was like, oh, you can do that, like that's allowed,
Speaker 4: Like people have done that, that's possible.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: You said third grade, you heard about it fifth fifth grade?
Speaker 1: So was it taught in school?
Speaker 3: So now if you learn about it? It was online?
Speaker 4: Absolutely online, okay, and around fifth grade when I heard
Speaker 4: about it, But I didn't like say anything or do
Speaker 4: anything about it until like late six.
Speaker 3: Grade when I talked to my mom about it.
Speaker 4: That didn't go super well, but it didn't go terribly either.
Speaker 4: But yes, it was around that age when I realized,
Speaker 4: you know, and I was out to my friends around
Speaker 4: seventh grade.
Speaker 2: Now, in school, how did that work? Did your teachers
Speaker 2: except that did they start identifying you differently or how
Speaker 2: does that work as a young person in.
Speaker 4: School, Well, you know, I was always a teacher's pet,
Speaker 4: so I was always like really close with my teachers.
Speaker 4: I still keep in contact with some of them from
Speaker 4: like as early as middle school even now. But only
Speaker 4: the ones who I got along with really well kind
Speaker 4: of knew. But not because I told them, you know,
Speaker 4: I wasn't allowed to tell them until ninth grade freshman
Speaker 4: year high school.
Speaker 3: Wasn't allowed to tell them.
Speaker 4: But some of them knew, Like my theater teacher knew
Speaker 4: because they would see my friends talk to me like
Speaker 4: that and call me that. But they would I think
Speaker 4: they would always just try to avoid calling me anything
Speaker 4: so that they would you know, upset my family or me.
Speaker 2: Or or upset you.
Speaker 1: Yes, what were some of the biggest challenges like coming
Speaker 1: out as trands? I know, especially to black parents law
Speaker 1: and it's like the end of the goddamn world for
Speaker 1: some of them, you know. But I think women may
Speaker 1: be more a little bit more you know, accepting of
Speaker 1: the new age stuff.
Speaker 4: Well, you know, I find that, you know, within my family,
Speaker 4: like most of my family members ignore it, you know,
Speaker 4: Like I don't get any negative comments but I don't
Speaker 4: get positive ones either, Like everyone just like.
Speaker 3: Pretends that's not a thing that's happening.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 4: It's pretty much like, oh, my very beautiful granddaughters, like
Speaker 4: I have a mustache now, but do I that shit?
Speaker 3: But that's very sweet.
Speaker 2: Of That's what I was gonna ask you, Like, how
Speaker 2: does Mss Barbara your grandmother? Does she acknowledge it or
Speaker 2: she just completely just.
Speaker 4: We have never said, exchange a single word about it.
Speaker 4: The only thing I can remember is for my sixteenth birthday,
Speaker 4: my family put together like a bunch of videos of
Speaker 4: my family and friends saying happy birthday to me. It
Speaker 4: was very heartfelt, and most of the people in the
Speaker 4: video called me Mikel, but my grandma called me by
Speaker 4: you know, my birth name, and she called me afterwards
Speaker 4: like feeling very ghost She's like, I'm so sorry. Everyone
Speaker 4: in the visit video called you Mikel except me, and
Speaker 4: I was the and I was like, oh, it's fine,
Speaker 4: it's completely fine.
Speaker 3: I love you.
Speaker 4: You can call me whatever you want because I love you,
Speaker 4: my grandma, And that was like the only thing we've
Speaker 4: talked about in that sense ever my entire life.
Speaker 2: And then she probably just call you baby, come here, baby,
Speaker 2: go get that shit from me.
Speaker 4: Baby like this, I'll be lucky if she doesn't call
Speaker 4: me by my little cousin's name, like she just missed
Speaker 4: it exactly right.
Speaker 1: Everybody else name but yours.
Speaker 2: Did you ever struggle with your family saying this is
Speaker 2: a phase, this is just a phase.
Speaker 4: I mean yes, definitely with my mother when I was
Speaker 4: like younger. But you know, time went on and it
Speaker 4: didn't end, so not just it worked itself out.
Speaker 2: You know, have you ever encountered anyone who it was
Speaker 2: a phase and they transitioned back and what did that
Speaker 2: look like? Oh?
Speaker 3: Several?
Speaker 4: You know, people try out different names, different pronouns. You know,
Speaker 4: I've never met anyone who you know, went on hormones
Speaker 4: or had surgery and changed their mind. But a lot
Speaker 4: of people have tried out a million different names, a
Speaker 4: million different pronouns just to see what fit and went
Speaker 4: back to what they were originally as because you know,
Speaker 4: they had something else going on that made them feel
Speaker 4: that way.
Speaker 3: You know, it's normal.
Speaker 2: Okay, so that is normal. Okay, See I'm learning right now.
Speaker 2: I'm learning. I'm definitely learning.
Speaker 1: What what are there any support systems out there or
Speaker 1: anything that you might have tapped into why you were
Speaker 1: transitioning into a transmand.
Speaker 3: What do you mean.
Speaker 1: Like online, like where did you know any type of.
Speaker 2: Greers or therapy or anything to.
Speaker 4: Nothing that I looked into, But I there was a
Speaker 4: big like for me, there was a big YouTube community
Speaker 4: of like trans like mask YouTubers who would like make
Speaker 4: videos together and talk about things and be like, oh,
Speaker 4: here's what I use, here's what I do, here's some tips,
Speaker 4: you know. So that was a really big help for
Speaker 4: me earlier in the day.
Speaker 2: What are some of the day to day struggles that
Speaker 2: you might experience as a trans person.
Speaker 4: Definitely the biggest thing is like using public restrooms. It's
Speaker 4: like I don't know, It's like I don't what. I'm
Speaker 4: always thinking what is going to make someone not talk
Speaker 4: to me? You know, like what is gonna make someone
Speaker 4: leave me alone? Which choice? Which bathue do I go into?
Speaker 4: And I think at this point I just try to
Speaker 4: avoid all together, or I try to like really gauge,
Speaker 4: like how masculine do I look today? Do I look
Speaker 4: masculine enough that someone's not going to really question it,
Speaker 4: You're gonna think I look a little feminine? Or should
Speaker 4: I just say forget it and go into the women's
Speaker 4: restroom and hope no one bothers me. You know, most
Speaker 4: of the time, I just try to avoid it overall,
Speaker 4: but it's a very annoying thing I have to think
Speaker 4: about constantly when I'm out in.
Speaker 2: Public, right, because if you got a P, you got
Speaker 2: a P and you shouldn't have to be concerned like
Speaker 2: what other motherfuckers think about you taking the peace.
Speaker 4: Now, on my school campus, all the restrooms are gender neutral.
Speaker 4: Not all of them, but most of them. A lot
Speaker 4: of them are gender neutral restrooms in the public buildings,
Speaker 4: and so I just don't have that problem there. So
Speaker 4: when I go back home and I'm out in normal again,
Speaker 4: I'm like, I don't know what to do.
Speaker 1: Wow, you know, I never thought about that because you know,
Speaker 1: you know, when they were coming up with like the
Speaker 1: gender they were trying to push that from North Carolina.
Speaker 1: I remember, like Charlotte and people was like, no, we're
Speaker 1: not doing that. But now, like just speaking to you,
Speaker 1: and I'm still I'm thinking about you, not as a
Speaker 1: trans man, but you know, just having to be this
Speaker 1: person going into a men's restroom, Like what would that
Speaker 1: really feel like? You know, because I think that even
Speaker 1: if you presented as you do going to a women's restuom,
Speaker 1: you might not even have any problems. But how would
Speaker 1: you feel like being in a men's restroom with men.
Speaker 2: And they treat you differently, or I've been on to
Speaker 2: saw you or do something harmful to you because they
Speaker 2: don't see you as a man. It sounds scary.
Speaker 3: It's definitely.
Speaker 4: It's always for me, it's always scarier before I go in.
Speaker 4: I just have personally never had a real negative experience.
Speaker 4: It's was something I worry about because always know, just
Speaker 4: because as it happened yet doesn't mean it never will,
Speaker 4: you know, But so far, no eye contact, no one
Speaker 4: even looks at me in the men's rem I just
Speaker 4: walked past.
Speaker 3: Whenever I've gone in.
Speaker 4: I've had one negative experience in the women's restroom at
Speaker 4: like a It was like at a church event. I
Speaker 4: should have known, but it was even before I was
Speaker 4: like fifteen, you know, and I just had short hair
Speaker 4: and I was wearing a little suit. And I walked
Speaker 4: into the women's restroom and the woman was like, the
Speaker 4: men's restroom was over there, and I just stood there.
Speaker 3: I looked at her. She was like, oh, my bad
Speaker 3: I'm so sorry.
Speaker 4: She just walked past me, and I didn't even know
Speaker 4: how to feel because it's like number one, clearly you
Speaker 4: don't see me as a mad which is like good
Speaker 4: and bad in this scenario.
Speaker 3: I guess I just had to let it go.
Speaker 2: Do you feel like your mental state has been affected
Speaker 2: in any way by being a trans person? What do
Speaker 2: you mean, like, like, has there been any negative impact
Speaker 2: on your mental state because of you transitioning?
Speaker 3: I don't think so.
Speaker 4: I think that it's really only been positive for me,
Speaker 4: except in the sense of like I've had a negative
Speaker 4: experience with other people that made me feel bad, you know,
Speaker 4: but for myself personally, like when I'm by myself chilling
Speaker 4: in my room, and when I'm with my friends, who
Speaker 4: are you know, cool with me and nice to me,
Speaker 4: I feel great.
Speaker 3: I feel like me.
Speaker 2: That's good to know that makes me hear. What advice
Speaker 2: would you give a parent who is newly learning that
Speaker 2: their child or young adult is a trans person.
Speaker 4: You know, if it's like if they're an adult, you know,
Speaker 4: I would just say, like let them take it at
Speaker 4: their pace, you know, like listen to them, let them
Speaker 4: make their own decisions, but also advise them like careful
Speaker 4: slow down. It was really hard as a transperson to
Speaker 4: hear like slow down at your transition, you know, because
Speaker 4: like to you, you're like I need to be who
Speaker 4: I envision for myself, Like right now, you know, you
Speaker 4: feel like every second that goes by that you're not
Speaker 4: like looking the way you want to look, being the
Speaker 4: way you want to be. That you know, your life
Speaker 4: hasn't started. That could be often what it feels like
Speaker 4: that you aren't even like living your life yet because
Speaker 4: you're still trapped in this like version of yourself that
Speaker 4: you don't like. But it is still good to take
Speaker 4: time and pace yourself to really figure out what exactly
Speaker 4: it is that you want. Because there's a million different
Speaker 4: ways that you can be trans you know. I know
Speaker 4: people who changed their pronouns but will never change their
Speaker 4: like their body. I know people who are on hormones
Speaker 4: would never want surgery, people who've gotten surgery but don't
Speaker 4: want hormones, people who have gotten both but never change
Speaker 4: their name or their pronouns. Like, there's a million different
Speaker 4: ways that you can be transgender.
Speaker 1: And that's what I think about, like are you really transitioning?
Speaker 1: Because I mean this is more so for the trans women,
Speaker 1: because I don't A lot of them haven't actually transitioned, right,
Speaker 1: They appear as women, but they you know, they still
Speaker 1: have their same genitalia. They may have changed your names.
Speaker 1: So is that really a trans at that point?
Speaker 4: Well, you know, being transitioning is really just going from
Speaker 4: one place to another, you know, regardless of where that
Speaker 4: place is. It's complicated, you know, because it's number one.
Speaker 1: Do trans the trans women are a little bit more complicated?
Speaker 1: Because I always say this on this show, like I
Speaker 1: feel like that whole movement is just like the highest
Speaker 1: form of patriarchy that I could think of, right, and
Speaker 1: so for we really don't hear from trans men as much.
Speaker 1: It's like that group of people just be chilling. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: these trans women are going wild, Like do you feel
Speaker 1: like they are pushing the agenda a little bit more
Speaker 1: like the trans The trans women are way more involved
Speaker 1: with like a lot of their legislation and things like that.
Speaker 1: Do you feel like trans men get the same type
Speaker 1: of respect in the LGBTQ community as trans women?
Speaker 3: No, but I don't think we should. Here's the thing.
Speaker 4: Trans women can't hide like transmen can. Testosterone does a
Speaker 4: lot more to a female body than estrogen does to
Speaker 4: a male body. Like trans women have always been out
Speaker 4: front and center. They've always been the number one like
Speaker 4: victim of the attacks, you know, they've always also been
Speaker 4: the number one people in the streets marching for our rights,
Speaker 4: you know. So it's like we have completely different positions.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: It's not that transmen are just like outliving their lives,
Speaker 4: Like we just don't get spotted as often. You probably
Speaker 4: have met more than one more than me, you know,
Speaker 4: transman before, because like we just we blend in with
Speaker 4: regular every day society. So women can get clocked all
Speaker 4: the time, and that's you know, it's harder for them,
Speaker 4: so they kind of have to speak out. They gotta
Speaker 4: have to have big personalities, they kind of have to
Speaker 4: constantly defend themselves.
Speaker 1: But you don't think it's because like the man, the
Speaker 1: genetic masculinity that's still there, right, no matter how much
Speaker 1: you try to mask it. It kind of comes out
Speaker 1: in anger. And this is coming from a woman, right,
Speaker 1: It kind of comes out in anger oftentimes towards women.
Speaker 1: So when we see a trans woman with all this aggression,
Speaker 1: I automatically think that's a dude acting like this. Towards
Speaker 1: a woman, you know, whereas you don't really see trans
Speaker 1: men like online be with men with men or women
Speaker 1: nature born men. Yeah, and oftentimes the trans women aren't
Speaker 1: being a I'm talking about like online and they're not
Speaker 1: really being attacked. And I feel like women aren't like
Speaker 1: you know, men complain about how women are like the
Speaker 1: number one supporters of all of us, right, just heterosexual
Speaker 1: women just be okay with all the shits, right, But
Speaker 1: we get attacked the most. I feel like from everybody
Speaker 1: heterosexual women who support you're attacked of trans women.
Speaker 2: So I got attacked, And I want you to tell
Speaker 2: me how you really feel about this. Michael, I said
Speaker 2: that I'm not cis gender. I'm just a woman. I'm
Speaker 2: just a woman. I'm not a cis gender woman. And
Speaker 2: someone said, you are what we say you are. You're
Speaker 2: cis gender and you just have to deal with it.
Speaker 2: That's what it is now. And I felt a way
Speaker 2: about it, because how do you get to identify as
Speaker 2: what you want to? But I don't, you know, like
Speaker 2: why do I have to be cis gender? Why can't
Speaker 2: I do be what I've always been? That it's okay
Speaker 2: with me. I'm not telling you what you can or
Speaker 2: cannot be, and I respect whatever you decide to be.
Speaker 2: But why am I not receiving that same respect.
Speaker 4: I get that, you know, it's complicated because like on
Speaker 4: the other end, you know, trans people don't get to
Speaker 4: decide whether or not we're called transgender or not. Like
Speaker 4: if you identify something other than your birth sex, you're
Speaker 4: called transgender, and if you identify as your birth sex,
Speaker 4: you fallow into the definition of cis gender. And it's like,
Speaker 4: I can understand being given a title that people say
Speaker 4: like objectively, like factually that is you. I mean, we
Speaker 4: have the same exact sperience. People tell me all the time. Factually,
Speaker 4: objectively you are female. Factively objectively you are a woman.
Speaker 4: And honestly, I don't know. I just ignore them, Like
Speaker 4: when you say, like, I am not cisgender, I am
Speaker 4: just a woman. I think that you have the right
Speaker 4: to say whatever you want to say, to identify however
Speaker 4: you want to identify. I think, And at the end
Speaker 4: of the day, it's such a non issue to be
Speaker 4: angry with SIS people for not wanting to identify ASIS,
Speaker 4: Like I think that you can identify whoever you want,
Speaker 4: you know, like in everyday life. It really does not
Speaker 4: affect anybody that much. Like how often do you have
Speaker 4: a problem because someone's like, I'm actually not a gender,
Speaker 4: I'm just a woman.
Speaker 3: It's like, okay, that's right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think it's like a it's just like
Speaker 1: the collective, right, So why it's almost like they're trying
Speaker 1: to replace women, the transit the trans women, Like we
Speaker 1: can't be we can't call ourselves women, but they want
Speaker 1: to be called women period, Like that seems to be
Speaker 1: the movement.
Speaker 2: What do you mean you can't call ourselves women?
Speaker 1: They want us now to call ourselves cis women or
Speaker 1: birthing people while they call themselves women girl sis.
Speaker 4: I think the term birthing people honestly comes more from
Speaker 4: like people who are female first and in transition to
Speaker 4: something else, rather than people. We have a term called AFAB,
Speaker 4: which means assigned female at birth, which is a term
Speaker 4: that people who are transgender but don't identify as women
Speaker 4: use so that we can clarify what kind of transperson
Speaker 4: we're talking about. Okay, okay, let me explain. Let me yes,
Speaker 4: let me explain, Let me explain. So there's so many different,
Speaker 4: like I said, as many different kinds of trans people
Speaker 4: people identify as all kinds of different things, you know,
Speaker 4: But when when we were specifically talking about like a
Speaker 4: trans person who was born female, the term afab is
Speaker 4: used to clarify. It's not used in everyday conversation, and
Speaker 4: it's specifically in these conversations. And I think the term
Speaker 4: birthing people, which is very stupid, honestly, but it's in
Speaker 4: that same realm where it's like, I don't think anyone
Speaker 4: should be calling women birthing people on a regular basis,
Speaker 4: only in like very specific conversations that are about medical things.
Speaker 4: Should we need to use these kinds of terms, you know,
Speaker 4: because I understand inclusivity, but there's like there's a you
Speaker 4: understand what I'm trying to say, Like.
Speaker 2: I don't know, No, that's not be lost as hell.
Speaker 1: Look, I don't know, okay.
Speaker 2: Aren't a fab person is someone who was genetically born
Speaker 2: a female but now identify as it's something else that
Speaker 2: might be having a baby.
Speaker 4: No, that has nothing to do with the birth part.
Speaker 4: Oh shit, Okay, it's just it's just if that literally
Speaker 4: means assigned female at birth, is like the doctor looked
Speaker 4: at you and they're like, that's a female that's all
Speaker 4: that means. Okay, And it's the same term for people
Speaker 4: who are who were male to a mab.
Speaker 3: It's the same thing a mab.
Speaker 2: I'm put this in my nose.
Speaker 1: I hit it, okay. Can you talk about your experience
Speaker 1: with as accessing healthcare as a transman?
Speaker 4: I mean doctors are like weird, you know, like.
Speaker 1: Are they because I feel like they like even like
Speaker 1: when you're filling out paperwork now, like they asked these
Speaker 1: these things are doing with your pronouns and all that stuff.
Speaker 4: But you know, like that's the core, not the corporation,
Speaker 4: but that's like the higher reps, like the people making
Speaker 4: the paperwork are not necessarily the doctors.
Speaker 3: Themselves, you know, and like got it right.
Speaker 4: I don't know, it's always just a little awkward, like
Speaker 4: they don't know how to treat me, like just as
Speaker 4: a person. I always feel like we're not really like
Speaker 4: connecting on like a personal level, you know. I mean
Speaker 4: they're always hopeful, they're always doing the best they can,
Speaker 4: doing their job as best they can, but it definitely
Speaker 4: always feels strange like they don't know how to approach me,
Speaker 4: maybe like the word to say the wrong thing. I
Speaker 4: don't know, I don't go to the doctor that often.
Speaker 2: Is it because of that or is just because you're healthy.
Speaker 4: I'm just bad at going to the doctor, and general
Speaker 4: always happened just.
Speaker 2: Like a man, yeah, man, a black man.
Speaker 1: So how long have you technically been transitioning? So you
Speaker 1: you felt this way since you were you said fifth grade? Right, yes,
Speaker 1: how long have you actually been transitioning into? Mikeel?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 1: When did that start?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 4: I tried out hormones, Because hormones, I said.
Speaker 3: I've been onto saucer room.
Speaker 4: I just I turned eighteen first, just a couple of
Speaker 4: days after I turned eighteen, So it's been about like
Speaker 4: a little over two years now that I've been onto
Speaker 4: saucer room. I think I got my name legally changed
Speaker 4: a little bit before I was eighteen.
Speaker 2: I believe.
Speaker 3: I still haven't.
Speaker 4: I've been lazy, so I haven't like taken the paperwork
Speaker 4: to like the DMV and all that good stuff. So
Speaker 4: I like driver's license still says my birth name, but
Speaker 4: it doesn't bother me that much. But like, I've been
Speaker 4: out to like my friends and my parents as early
Speaker 4: as eighth grade freshman year, so socially, I transitioned around
Speaker 4: that time.
Speaker 2: Do you feel like there is an age too young
Speaker 2: for a person to start transitioning? Like should a parent
Speaker 2: be like, my five year old doesn't feel like a
Speaker 2: so I should let my five year old be a girl.
Speaker 4: I think that there should be no minimum aids for
Speaker 4: socially transitioning.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 4: I think that you should be able to call yourself
Speaker 4: whatever you want at any age to see how it feels.
Speaker 4: I think it's so important to like go out in
Speaker 4: life and have people call you what you think that
Speaker 4: you want to be called, so that you can see
Speaker 4: how it makes you feel, like or do you want
Speaker 4: to do this really? Like I don't understand the issue
Speaker 4: with the trial run, you know. I understand the issues
Speaker 4: with hormones and surgery that should all become like much.
Speaker 1: More buying clothes, you know, And it's also a transition
Speaker 1: for the parent too.
Speaker 3: I agree.
Speaker 4: I understand that it's very hard on parents as well,
Speaker 4: but I think that there's it's harder on the person
Speaker 4: on the kid, you know, as someone who was that kid,
Speaker 4: you know, and it is the issue. I mean, I
Speaker 4: guess if you are, like, if you don't have money
Speaker 4: to just blow like buying clothes can be a problem,
Speaker 4: but I promise you, like most trans kids will be
Speaker 4: willing to go to the thrift shop and buy like
Speaker 4: a two dollars boy shirt to make themselves feel better,
Speaker 4: you know. Like I don't think we're all that picky.
Speaker 4: But I can't speak for everybody, of course, but no,
Speaker 4: I don't think the should be a minim maze for socially social.
Speaker 2: Okay, too well, I want to identify as a bad
Speaker 2: rich bitch and I want everybody to call me that
Speaker 2: and twenty five years old forever.
Speaker 5: Okay, I think I feel like I want to be
Speaker 5: a white man, rich white man. Have you encountered any
Speaker 5: difficulties like in the workplace related to your gender identity
Speaker 5: or have you worked or I have a full time
Speaker 5: college student.
Speaker 4: I've worked, you know, I mean like minimum waise jobs,
Speaker 4: you know, but you know I told them what the
Speaker 4: name to call me. I really, I mean I've had
Speaker 4: some really funny moments with like customers working customer service,
Speaker 4: Like would you like that like hear a story?
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, okay like stories.
Speaker 4: Okay, I was at the cash register and this like
Speaker 4: grandmother came in with like just like me be like
Speaker 4: a little ten year old boy and like a like
Speaker 4: a six year old little girl and they come in
Speaker 4: and they like they're ordering their stuff, and the little
Speaker 4: girl just keeps staring at me, like staring me down.
Speaker 4: And I'm like, here we go, like I know, I
Speaker 4: know this really, and she just she looks at me
Speaker 4: and she goes, are you a gore or a boy?
Speaker 4: And I was like, am I what I said?
Speaker 2: Excuse me?
Speaker 3: She said? Are you a or a boy? And the
Speaker 3: grandma was like looking at the kid, looking at me
Speaker 3: like so terrified, and I.
Speaker 4: Was just like, I was like, I'm a boy and
Speaker 4: she was like, no, you're not. My Grandma's like, I'm
Speaker 4: so sorry.
Speaker 2: Stop.
Speaker 3: I was like, why ask if you if you already know.
Speaker 2: If you already decided what I am, why are you asking?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: Try to check your temperature?
Speaker 4: Grandma looks so scared, and I'm just like I could
Speaker 4: as a child.
Speaker 2: Have you ever had problems with like people identifying you
Speaker 2: on purpose as what you don't want to be identified
Speaker 2: is just to be mean to you, like people you
Speaker 2: know in real life?
Speaker 4: Honestly, no, I find that people don't talk to me,
Speaker 4: you know, about it when they're not cool with it,
Speaker 4: you know, like everyone just avoids it. I think it's
Speaker 4: because I'm such a like a I don't care, Like
Speaker 4: you really cannot hurt my feelings, Like if you just go,
Speaker 4: if you're trying to antagonize me, I'm not going to
Speaker 4: give you the satisfaction of blowing up about that, you know.
Speaker 3: So I've always been a person. I don't know.
Speaker 4: I think I just have thick skin in that sense
Speaker 4: where it's just like you can do whatever you want,
Speaker 4: Like I simply just surround myself with people who are
Speaker 4: cool with me and who support me, Like if you don't,
Speaker 4: then I just will ignore you. That's just how I've
Speaker 4: always felt. So I think people just don't try, you know.
Speaker 4: I mean I've had like one I've had one, yes,
Speaker 4: but the best I could I was really young in
Speaker 4: my transition then, so that hurt me more. I think
Speaker 4: that's probably why I'm like this now. She she's my
Speaker 4: character development that, Yes, what advice would you.
Speaker 2: Have for a young person who's struggling with telling their
Speaker 2: family how they feel and you know, wanting to transition
Speaker 2: but not feeling like it's a safe space in their environment.
Speaker 4: Honestly, you got to put yourself first in that scenario,
Speaker 4: Like if you think that coming out is going to
Speaker 4: make you be unsafe, like then spend however many years
Speaker 4: you got to you're out of the house, prepping for
Speaker 4: being able to be on your own and being able
Speaker 4: to take care of yourself, you know, because like I
Speaker 4: don't think that you should hide suppress how you're feeling
Speaker 4: for your entire life because you think it's going to
Speaker 4: make you lose people. The people who love you should
Speaker 4: support you no matter what. So I guess that's my advice,
Speaker 4: Like think about what's going to make you the most
Speaker 4: safe and happy of the course in your entire life,
Speaker 4: and not what's going to make people accept you.
Speaker 3: You know. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes perfect sense.
Speaker 1: Is there anything you wish you had known like earlier,
Speaker 1: like wish while transitioning.
Speaker 4: There's something I wish I could go back and tell
Speaker 4: myself like middle school age, And it's that I think
Speaker 4: there's this idea that like only like very queer looking
Speaker 4: people are going to be attracted to you as a transperson.
Speaker 4: It's not true, Like you'd be very shocked.
Speaker 1: Because these niggas is nasty and I'm not saying an
Speaker 1: nasty but it's almost like a weird.
Speaker 2: Thing, like.
Speaker 4: Why why people hide what are you their preferences.
Speaker 1: Some queer shit going on with a lot of guys.
Speaker 4: You know, not even just guys, women too, women to pretend.
Speaker 4: I don't know people people, people hide their preferences, and
Speaker 4: so it's like you were not a grotesque You're not
Speaker 4: gonna be a gro test moster.
Speaker 3: Who's gonna be so ugly that one's gonna want you?
Speaker 3: That's not true.
Speaker 4: Plenty of people like what they're like be choosing, and.
Speaker 2: You're gonna be surprised and who all want you? Like,
Speaker 2: damn boys, damn girls. You know, I relax exactly. Not
Speaker 2: for me to go around.
Speaker 4: I would say that to other trans people too.
Speaker 1: So how do you envision like your future in terms
Speaker 1: of gender identity and personal growth.
Speaker 4: Gender identity and personal growth? Well, you know, like, obviously,
Speaker 4: I'd like to have a good career in my chosen field.
Speaker 4: I'd like to make a good amount of money. I
Speaker 4: want to live in this like near the city or
Speaker 4: in the city one day, that's my goal. I like
Speaker 4: to be around core people, like I like to be
Speaker 4: in queer areas. I'm not the type of person who
Speaker 4: wants to like seek out adversity, you know, I'm not
Speaker 4: marching in the streets. I'm just not that person. I'm
Speaker 4: so grateful for those people with my community who want
Speaker 4: to argue every single day, I really am, because that
Speaker 4: means I don't have to, you know, So I guess
Speaker 4: I just I would just want to be happy with
Speaker 4: my people and live a good life. That's really it,
Speaker 4: you know, I'm not a complicated person.
Speaker 2: Do you want children?
Speaker 3: I do. I'd like to adopt.
Speaker 4: But if my partner wanted to, like, do IV for
Speaker 4: themselves so we could do that too.
Speaker 3: I don't care. A tried as a child.
Speaker 2: Okay, now this question you don't have to answer if
Speaker 2: you don't want.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but what he would he carry? That's what I
Speaker 1: was thinking.
Speaker 2: No, no, because he already said he would have dot.
Speaker 2: But like, do you are you gay or do you like.
Speaker 3: I'm pantastical? I'm open. I don't.
Speaker 4: I never call myself fans like. I don't know why
Speaker 4: I did it. Just now, I'm the worst place possible
Speaker 4: to say that I'm bisexual.
Speaker 3: I'm open. I don't care.
Speaker 2: Okay, just.
Speaker 3: Exactly, Okay, that's fair.
Speaker 1: Interesting.
Speaker 2: Do you have any more questions? Because I want a
Speaker 2: dumb bitch story or simp series from Mike Keel.
Speaker 1: Okay, So do you know I have any resources or
Speaker 1: organizations you can recommend for those looking for support like
Speaker 1: trans people or looked in order to learn about trans issues.
Speaker 1: Do you know any community?
Speaker 4: I mean, if you are a trans person, there's a
Speaker 4: ton of support groups out there, but one that I
Speaker 4: keep getting emails for specifically is from an organization called Plume.
Speaker 4: There where I get my my hormones from. You know,
Speaker 4: they like ship.
Speaker 1: That was a question I had. I wanted to know
Speaker 1: where you initially got your home hormone.
Speaker 4: Yes, they're expensive, you They ship basically nationwide, I believe,
Speaker 4: except in like certain states where we're having like legality issues,
Speaker 4: I believe. But they have a ton of like zoom
Speaker 4: like call support groups and stuff to just talk about
Speaker 4: things like give you information on how to legally change
Speaker 4: your name. Things like that support for like people trying
Speaker 4: to learn about trans people. I'm afraid I can't help.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Well that that's kind of good because that means you
Speaker 2: haven't had like a whole bunch of adversity, like so
Speaker 2: you don't know those groups.
Speaker 4: So that's good, And I mean I wouldn't say that,
Speaker 4: but I just feel like.
Speaker 1: The trans men be chilling because you know, we don't.
Speaker 1: You just don't be uptight like that. I just really
Speaker 1: feel that way women, I'd be wilding.
Speaker 2: Out, you know.
Speaker 4: I mean, no one's ever hurt me, but I've definitely
Speaker 4: had some altercations here and there.
Speaker 2: Let me ask you this, how is the experience in church?
Speaker 2: Do you go to church? Do you feel like church
Speaker 2: is a safe space as a trans person?
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 4: Here's the thing, Like, I haven't been to church since
Speaker 4: I was very little. I honestly it had nothing to
Speaker 4: do with me being trans. One time, I like threw
Speaker 4: up everywhere. My grandma never seen me back ever her again.
Speaker 4: She was so embarrassed. I think I was really in it.
Speaker 3: But I don't know.
Speaker 4: When I'm around like church going people, like I said,
Speaker 4: no one says anything to my face, No says anything
Speaker 4: to my face.
Speaker 3: Everyone's for light in cordial.
Speaker 4: Sometimes I feel like a person's treating me a little
Speaker 4: meaner than they normally would it, and I just assume
Speaker 4: that it's because of that.
Speaker 3: You know, but I nowhere really knowing.
Speaker 2: Right, it might just be that there, dickhead and not. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it has nothing to do with you as a person.
Speaker 2: Some people just just.
Speaker 1: Me, yeah, anything else, like you wanted to share about
Speaker 1: your experience or insight as a trans man.
Speaker 4: No, I think you guys asked a lot of really
Speaker 4: good questions.
Speaker 2: Okay, thank you, And I didn't offend at all, right,
Speaker 2: not really, not really tell me, tell me what I
Speaker 2: did offend on.
Speaker 3: It's not really offense.
Speaker 4: It's just like I don't know, like within like what
Speaker 4: other tips people I know, Like we joke all the
Speaker 4: time about the oh, identify as this joke?
Speaker 3: What we joke about the joke? Exactly?
Speaker 4: I identify as a rich It's like it's not even offensive.
Speaker 4: It's just like all right, here we go.
Speaker 2: But why we can't.
Speaker 1: Though, Like I'm confused, Like maybe it's not a joke today.
Speaker 1: You know, tomorrow it might not be your joke, right,
Speaker 1: I might really want to be a white man tomorrow.
Speaker 4: I mean, what people have tried it. People try to
Speaker 4: be transversial all the time.
Speaker 2: Rachel Dozel shout out to Rachel Joseel.
Speaker 3: You know we have the same birthday.
Speaker 1: Oh really, now that's a fool right then, But she'd
Speaker 1: be yelling.
Speaker 2: All right, So we're gonna go to commercial and we
Speaker 2: come back. We're gonna get a SIMP series story from Michael.
Speaker 2: We'll be right back dumbitch stories, so do because we've
Speaker 2: all been a dumb bitch at least once or twice.
Speaker 2: All right, y'all, we are back and Michael is going
Speaker 2: to share his SIMP series story with us. Go ahead, Michael,
Speaker 2: what happened?
Speaker 3: Okay?
Speaker 4: Well, back when I was in high school, I had
Speaker 4: this this guy who sat in like the back of
Speaker 4: the classroom from me, and I guess I'm gonna give
Speaker 4: him a fake dam I'll call him. I'll call him Rick,
Speaker 4: And you know Rick. He was hispanic, you know, very handsome,
Speaker 4: and he was like short. I always really like short
Speaker 4: guys because they don't make me feel short, because I
Speaker 4: think he's about like five five. But this was like
Speaker 4: in the middle of COVID, so like we're all wearing
Speaker 4: our masks and everything, and I can barely see him,
Speaker 4: but I think, you know, eventually, like I wrote The
Speaker 4: Courage and I asked him for his phone numbers so
Speaker 4: that like we could like chat and like be friends
Speaker 4: or whatever. And we started texting for a while and
Speaker 4: he was really nice, like very nice actually, and I
Speaker 4: found his Instagram and stuff like that's what was the
Speaker 4: actual face was like, and he had a very nice smile.
Speaker 4: You know, I thought he was great. I had a
Speaker 4: really big crush on this guy, and you know, he
Speaker 4: respected my pronouns and everything. And I divided over to
Speaker 4: my house one day and we were hanging out in
Speaker 4: my room and like watching this like cartoon or whatever,
Speaker 4: and he like, I don't know, he asked me like
Speaker 4: a couple of like little questions here and there.
Speaker 3: He was like, so how did.
Speaker 4: You know, like like what of people do you like?
Speaker 4: Like just basically a lot of questions about my identity
Speaker 4: and stuff like that, and I answered them all because
Speaker 4: you know, I just I like to talk, you know,
Speaker 4: like to have a little conversation. So I was completely
Speaker 4: open with everything. And at some point during that time
Speaker 4: he kissed me, and then he left and he went home,
Speaker 4: right and like I think like a week later, he
Speaker 4: came over again. He was like, so have you been
Speaker 4: like who've you like told about this? And I was like,
Speaker 4: is there people that I'm not supposed to tell about this?
Speaker 4: She was like, no, no, it's fine, it's fine. I
Speaker 4: just you know, I just wanted to know if, like,
Speaker 4: you know, you've been like talking about this around with
Speaker 4: like people or whatever. And at this point I'm like, oh, okay,
Speaker 4: so this is a secret, like you don't want anybody
Speaker 4: to know about this, And you know, I wish I
Speaker 4: could say I stopped talking to him after that, but
Speaker 4: I didn't, So it was it was like a little
Speaker 4: a little secret for a while. But I guess that's
Speaker 4: my big story for that, because that's embarrassing. After that,
Speaker 4: I should have been lining.
Speaker 2: So I have a question about that, because maybe he
Speaker 2: wasn't ready to be out, you know, does that make
Speaker 2: would that make you feel like it's about you or
Speaker 2: more about them?
Speaker 4: You know a little bit of both, because he's the thing,
Speaker 4: like it's so much about image, And it's always going
Speaker 4: to be a slight when you feel like a person
Speaker 4: doesn't want, like isn't proud to be seen with you specifically,
Speaker 4: Like that's always gonna be something that's hurtful, especially when
Speaker 4: you know the next person he was out with was
Speaker 4: my friend, who is like the most like prettiest, skinny,
Speaker 4: little white girl on the planet, you know, and it
Speaker 4: it just feels like it's slight, it does you know?
Speaker 4: I don't believe in out in anybody, tell anybody anybody's business.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's always gonna be hurtful, you know.
Speaker 2: No, I can feel that I can respect that, but
Speaker 2: you never know, he might have wanted to be with
Speaker 2: you but just felt like he couldn't.
Speaker 3: You know, I believe I believe that too.
Speaker 4: You know. It's always hard for me to as like
Speaker 4: this is one of my faults, Like it's hard for
Speaker 4: me to empathize super well.
Speaker 3: But because I was so out so.
Speaker 4: Early compared to a lot of other people, that it's
Speaker 4: like hard for me to like imagine, like I'm scared.
Speaker 4: I don't want anybody to know because I've just never
Speaker 4: been able to hide. Really Like, I feel like I
Speaker 4: feel like everybody knew before I knew, at least that
Speaker 4: something was off about me.
Speaker 1: In black families, we'd be knowing from birth.
Speaker 4: My mother told me that a client turned around in
Speaker 4: her chair one day when she was doing her hair
Speaker 4: and just said, you know, you know your daughter is gay?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 4: I gotta be in like elementary school at this point,
Speaker 4: maybe middle school, how do you know?
Speaker 2: And I don't know, Well, you know what, I kind
Speaker 2: of knew because when we would talk, you want to
Speaker 2: talk about nothing but comic books and comic Con and
Speaker 2: nothing else, nothing else. That's me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is just nurty.
Speaker 2: I didn't like I mean, he didn't like it.
Speaker 4: I liked I liked Barbie's. I loved Barbie Dolls.
Speaker 2: Very very young. You got over that quick.
Speaker 4: I just like to add stuff out. But that's probably
Speaker 4: because because I'm a writer. That's probably where that came from.
Speaker 2: All Right, Michael, tell everybody where they can find you.
Speaker 2: Plug anything that you're doing, anything that you want to
Speaker 2: share where people go ahead and plug it for yourself.
Speaker 4: Okay, well, you can find me on Instagram at It's
Speaker 4: spelled m y k E underscore e L, so it's
Speaker 4: like my name, but add an extra E and put
Speaker 4: it like an underscore between the e's at mike L.
Speaker 2: That's one more time. Because you're going to do it people,
Speaker 2: you can m.
Speaker 4: Y k E underscore e L on Instagram on Instagram
Speaker 4: and they're attached to my website. I have a lot
Speaker 4: of writing projects that I'd love to share. It's basically
Speaker 4: that portfolio. So if you were going to work with me,
Speaker 4: let me know, please shoot me an email.
Speaker 1: So what are you writing?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 1: You write like scripts and stuff like that.
Speaker 3: I do.
Speaker 4: I also do creative writing. I do everything, also do journalism.
Speaker 2: Do you look, what's the email? Though you didn't say
Speaker 2: the email? What is it? Oh?
Speaker 3: Sorry, it's on the website.
Speaker 2: Oh and what's the website?
Speaker 3: It's attached to the instagram.
Speaker 1: It's on the instagram. Now hold on, we already was
Speaker 1: past that, right quick? Do you know how to use
Speaker 1: final Draft?
Speaker 3: I do? I have it?
Speaker 2: Period.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'll be emailing you because do you mind? Can
Speaker 1: I pay you to give me like a tutorial?
Speaker 3: Oh? Absolutely, yes, I need It's perfect.
Speaker 1: Okay, Yes, I need help because I'm writing some stuff
Speaker 1: and I've just been you know, just typing in regular
Speaker 1: but I need to know how to properly format things like.
Speaker 3: Script for Oh absolutely, I can teach you all about her.
Speaker 1: Yes, yay, now I'm excited.
Speaker 4: Okay, I'm a screen so like that was like my
Speaker 4: first several classes when wow, okay.
Speaker 1: So I mean I look, I look for some people
Speaker 1: on Fiver, but I just you know, you just can't
Speaker 1: be sure before you pay somebody. So yeah, I will
Speaker 1: be contacting you.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you for joining us, Mikel, and thank
Speaker 2: you for sharing all this information with us. I really
Speaker 2: really really appreciate you with the Aunties, with the Aunties
Speaker 2: Millennial Aundies K A J.
Speaker 1: All right, y'all, So if you enjoyed this episode, y'all
Speaker 1: tune in and this is the end.
Speaker 2: Well we're yeah all right.
Speaker 1: So if you enjoy this episode, y'all tune in every
Speaker 1: Thursday on the Black Effect podcast I Heeart Radio, Apple
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