1 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:05,240 Speaker 1: Hi. My name is Maddie. I'm thirteen and I'm from 2 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:08,960 Speaker 1: Green Day, Wisconsin. What's up, guys. My name is Connor Blakeley. 3 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 1: I'm eighteen years old and I'm from Cleveland, Ohio. I 4 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:16,960 Speaker 1: thought y'all's Facebook post about whalming teenagers to talk about 5 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: their smartphones. I've heard a smartphone since I was probably 6 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: in kindergarten our first grade. I think social media and 7 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 1: our smartphones canna be really positive because in the palm 8 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: of our hand, we're able to communicate with one another. 9 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:31,480 Speaker 1: I have an iPhone five and I use it every day. 10 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 1: It makes me feel independent, and having it with me 11 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:36,879 Speaker 1: helps make me feel like I'm not missing anything important. 12 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 1: I'd say I use it around seven eight hours a day, 13 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:44,919 Speaker 1: mostly for connecting with my friends through Instagram, Snapchat, text messages, 14 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 1: and phone calls. Um man, my friends. What we like 15 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 1: the most about smartphones is the fact that we can 16 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:53,559 Speaker 1: get anything whenever we want it, how we want it, 17 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: whether it's trying to figure out plans or how we're 18 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: going to order food, to figure out where we're about 19 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:00,040 Speaker 1: to go out to eat. I think that it's I 20 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: used to have an escape from reality for a moment. 21 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: But at the same time, I feel like if we 22 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: had never had phone, we would be a lot more 23 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 1: connected to the outside world. People are way too consumed 24 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:15,760 Speaker 1: sometimes with sharing the experience that they're living. I often 25 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 1: times find myself looking at all my friends during a 26 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 1: concert taking a snapchat of Kendrick Lamar. Well, I'm the 27 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 1: only one who's like actually looking at Kendrick, trying to 28 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 1: authentically experience it so I can have that memory. I 29 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: think technology is cool, but it's also important to take 30 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 1: a break as well. I do take technology breaks, but yeah, 31 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: I'm on my smartphone a ton. Hi. I'm Katie and 32 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: I'm addicted to my iPhone. Hi Katie. Yes, I know 33 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: we're impersonating an a meeting, but Brian, I think a 34 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: lot of people around the country have the same problem 35 00:01:56,000 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: I do. I'm on my iPhone constantly checking it incessantly 36 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: and basically wasting endless amount of time on it. Yeah. 37 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 1: I had a very sad experience the other day where 38 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:12,799 Speaker 1: I actually got a spasm between my thumb and my 39 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: pointer finger just because I'm holding my iPhone all the time. 40 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 1: I'm basically like reshaping the muscular chur in my hand. Actually, 41 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 1: that's not that funny, because do you know that a 42 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: lot of kids. They're seeing a lot of neck problems 43 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 1: among adolescents because of the way they're constantly looking at 44 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 1: their iPhones. Well, clearly we're obsessed with this topic, and 45 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 1: I think a lot of other people are, including a 46 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 1: psychologist named Gene Twangy. Gene has just written a book 47 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: called Eigen Why today's super connected kids are growing up 48 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 1: less rebellious, more tolerant, less happy, and completely unprepared for 49 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: adulthood and what that means for the rest of us. 50 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 1: I don't know how they fit that title on a book, Brian. 51 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 1: It's more of a chapter than a title, exactly. It's 52 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 1: It's also the subject of the latest cover story in 53 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 1: the Atlantic, which is really fascinating, and so we talked 54 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:09,959 Speaker 1: to Jean particularly about how these trends have affected young 55 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:14,639 Speaker 1: people who are working less, dating less, sleeping less. They're 56 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: taking four times as many antidepressants as the generation before them, 57 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:22,639 Speaker 1: so it's had a really profound impact on their brains 58 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:26,799 Speaker 1: and their personalities. There are some positive effects for this 59 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:31,799 Speaker 1: uber connected generation, but many negative, as you mentioned, Brian, 60 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: So to hear more, to learn more, here's our conversation 61 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 1: with Gene Twangy, a professor of psychology at San Diego 62 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: State University. I don't know if you've seen it. This 63 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 1: isn't my daughter, but it could have been the video 64 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 1: of a two year old trying to swipe through a 65 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: paper magazine and she can't figure out why it's not working. 66 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: It's just incredible, isn't it. And I think a lot 67 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: of parents are concerned about screen time. And it's not 68 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: just screen time in and of itself. It's really the 69 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: impact of how this is affecting our social relationships. And 70 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: when you say I generation little, I what age are 71 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: you talking about? So right now, I gen is those 72 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:25,840 Speaker 1: ages five to two, So it's a pretty broad swath. Um, 73 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 1: it's those to That latter date might be revised later 74 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: on and we find out more about this generation and 75 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 1: their characteristics, but that beginning date of folks who are 76 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: born then in the mid nineties, they spent their entire 77 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:45,840 Speaker 1: adolescents with smartphones. I mean, one of the I think 78 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 1: the fascinating parts of this article you wrote that draws 79 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 1: from your book is that there are a lot of 80 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:55,479 Speaker 1: positive changes that this generation has experienced. I mean, today's 81 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 1: kids are physically safer, they have sex lator, they used 82 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: rugs less. So it's really been a mixed bag in 83 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: terms of what the what the impacts are. Right, And 84 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,840 Speaker 1: a lot of those trends that you're mentioning are not 85 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:15,279 Speaker 1: as connected to smartphones. They're part of a much more 86 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 1: general trend of um children and teens growing up more 87 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: slowly so taking on the both the privileges and the 88 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: pleasures of adulthood later than they used to. Why is 89 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: that happening? I'm curious, Jean, I'm I'm surprised actually to 90 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: hear you say that, because to me, kids aren't having 91 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 1: a childhood. They're being pushed academically at school. Uh, they're 92 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: being subjected to all sorts of sexual imagery that uh 93 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 1: some have even theorized that's bringing on puberty earlier. So 94 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:55,480 Speaker 1: I'm curious, why what evidence you have that they are 95 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 1: kind of delaying adulthood. Right, They're exposed to lots of 96 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:02,679 Speaker 1: things on line. You're absolutely right, the age of puberty 97 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:07,719 Speaker 1: has gone down. The academic pressure part um. Actually, eighth 98 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:10,839 Speaker 1: graders do significantly less homework now than they did in 99 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 1: the same thing for tenth graders and twelfth graders. That's 100 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:17,159 Speaker 1: actually a really important thing. To keep in mind throughout 101 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 1: this conversation. It comes up a lot so for them 102 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:24,359 Speaker 1: growing up slowly. I looked at the data on eighth graders, 103 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 1: tenth graders, twelfth graders, so UM, middle school, and high 104 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 1: school students to see how often or whether at all 105 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:36,360 Speaker 1: they did things that adults do that children don't. Being 106 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 1: a teen is a time of transition. You start doing 107 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:45,280 Speaker 1: things that adults do, things like driving, working, dating, going 108 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: out without your parents, having sex, drinking alcohol. All of 109 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 1: those activities have gone down. Teens are less likely to 110 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:58,160 Speaker 1: do all of those things than they were even ten 111 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 1: years ago. But isn't that directly related, Jane, to technology? 112 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: Because it seems to me they're driving less because they 113 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 1: can call an uber, or they are going out less 114 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: because they can talk on you know, video chat or whatever. 115 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: And they are having sex less because they're actually physically 116 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 1: with people less. I'm sure they're probably sexting more and 117 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: having actual sex less. So isn't aren't all these trends 118 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: connected to iPhone use or computer use in general. So 119 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: there definitely are some connections to technology. For you know, 120 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 1: some of the reasons that you mentioned that they can 121 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: keep in touch with friends without going out of the house. UM, 122 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: Uber is probably not a factor because you can't use 123 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: Uber until you're eighteen plus. These trends in terms of 124 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 1: driving and driver's licenses show up in rural areas where 125 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: Uber is not available. UM. But technology does have an influence. 126 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: It probably accelerated some of these trends. But um these 127 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: trends have been heading in that direction before smartphones were available, 128 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 1: So there's also clearly other cultural factors going on here. 129 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: So the most likely explanation is we have fewer children, 130 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: we nurture them for longer, We expect that they will 131 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 1: take longer to finish their education, that they'll go to 132 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: college and maybe even graduate school, that they will have 133 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 1: their own children later. So it's called a slow life strategy. 134 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: And the theory behind this suggests that an environment that 135 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 1: is safe and nurturing and favors having fewer children who 136 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: are going to live longer will push for this type 137 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: of slower development. And that's exactly what we're seeing. Is 138 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: in eighteen year olds now look like what fifteen year 139 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: olds look like ten or twenty years ago. And it 140 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: was studying to me how quickly this change has occurred. 141 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: In the article, you pointed out. The twelfth graders go 142 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: out less than eighth graders did in two thousand nine. 143 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 1: I mean, so many of the changes you're describing really 144 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 1: boiled down to kids spending time alone in their rooms. 145 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: Why is actual face to face communication so critically important? Gene? Well, 146 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 1: you know, think about human evolution and for how many 147 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 1: years our brains evolved, how many thousands, tens of thousands 148 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: of years our brains evolved without screens. In the Caveman era, 149 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 1: if you were isolated from other people and didn't have 150 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 1: face to face interaction, you were dead. You didn't have 151 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 1: anybody to help you find food, You don't have anybody 152 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 1: to mate with. That was literally bred out of us, 153 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 1: um to be a hermit. Uh. We really need that 154 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:48,359 Speaker 1: face to face interaction to be happy. We are hardwired 155 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: that way. And it's interesting, Jeane, you bring that up. 156 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 1: A teenager named Ala called in from Texas. She's one 157 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: of our listeners with these thoughts on screen time. UM, 158 00:09:57,880 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 1: let's have a listen to what she says and then 159 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 1: we can talk about it. Hi. There, I was born 160 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:05,199 Speaker 1: in nine. I'm eighteen years old. It's as hot a 161 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: phone for a pretty much my entire life, and I 162 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 1: honestly believe that social media like Instagram and Facebook and stuff, 163 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 1: seeing photos of girls and models and stuff pop up 164 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 1: on your feet really makes girls my age feel very 165 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 1: unscure about themselves. And I know that a lot of 166 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 1: girls feel like social media is the best thing ever, 167 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: but I just don't. I guess that's all I have 168 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: to say. I hope this helped Gene. That's an interesting comment. 169 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 1: And of course I'm sure Ala is not alone. I'm 170 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:38,199 Speaker 1: sure a lot of girls for age eighteen year olds 171 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:41,439 Speaker 1: feel that way. And do you think it is contributing 172 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:46,559 Speaker 1: to the increase and anxiety, depression in and suicidal thoughts 173 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 1: or increased risk of suicide. Well, those mental health issues 174 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 1: that have been on the rise, those trends are stronger 175 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 1: and more acute for girls. Uh. In some cases, that 176 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 1: trend only towards more mental health problems only shows up 177 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: for girls and and not for boys. And that may 178 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:12,679 Speaker 1: be because girls spend more time on their smartphones and 179 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 1: more time on social media, and that many of the 180 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 1: interactions that girls have on social media um come with 181 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 1: those types of feelings that Ela is describing, being judged 182 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 1: for your appearance, m of seeing others who you know 183 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 1: have these unattainable physical ideals. There's you know, a lot 184 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 1: of pressures on teen girls that are UM exacerbated and 185 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 1: um really just becomes so much of a larger issue online, 186 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 1: even more than they used to be. UM. Can you 187 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about the effect of these 188 00:11:55,800 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 1: changes on depression rates among the I gen generally. Yeah, 189 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 1: So there's two crucial pieces to that. The first is 190 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 1: there is an increasing amount of evidence that I gen 191 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 1: is suffering from more mental health issues, and this shows 192 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: up across many different sources. They are more likely to 193 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,960 Speaker 1: be identified as having major depressive disorder. Those rates have 194 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 1: gone up by about fifty. They're more likely to say 195 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 1: they feel anxious, to say they feel overwhelmed, to show 196 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 1: symptoms of depression, to feel lonely, uh, to self harm, 197 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:42,239 Speaker 1: say through cutting. Across the board, suicide rates have tripled 198 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 1: for girls between the ages of twelve and fourteen. They've 199 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 1: gone up by fifty for older teen girls. UM, there's 200 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: rises for for teen boys as well. UM. So just 201 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 1: in many different measures, they are suffering from many form 202 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 1: more and more severe mental health issues. UM than just 203 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: five years ago or ten years ago. There was a 204 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:10,839 Speaker 1: fairly sudden change starting mostly around. This is really upsetting 205 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: obviously when you hear this gene and and let's unpack it, 206 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 1: if if we could tell me what is at the 207 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:22,720 Speaker 1: root of these problems? Is it social isolation? Is it 208 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 1: feeling that everybody has a better life than you do? 209 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: Is that the constant assault of perfection or seeming perfection 210 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: that kids are being exposed to all the time on 211 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 1: their digital devices. So there's definitely a role for social 212 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 1: media and smartphones in this rise. Um The rise started 213 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,959 Speaker 1: to happen right at the year when the majority of 214 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 1: Americans had smartphones, and that year was um And there's 215 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:57,680 Speaker 1: for we know this from many many studies of boteens 216 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 1: and adults that those who spend more hours on social media, 217 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:08,959 Speaker 1: on electronic devices and smartphones are more likely to report 218 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 1: mental health issues like anxiety and depression and risk for suicide. 219 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 1: So it's not just that spending a lot of time 220 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: in front of a screen may lead to anxiety, depression, 221 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 1: through comparison, through cyber bullying, things like that. It's also 222 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 1: that by some estimates, teams are spending eight hours a 223 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 1: day with screens. Combine that with school and other activities, 224 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 1: they have very little time left over to just hang 225 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: out with their friends and to have in person social 226 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: interaction with their friends and family. Sure enough, those things 227 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 1: have declined. Teams do spend less time interacting with their 228 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 1: friends face to face than they used to. And I 229 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 1: think that's actually one of the major effects here is 230 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 1: not just the screen, but the the screen leaves less 231 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 1: time for that in person, face to face social interaction, 232 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: which is so crucial for mental health. You know, Gene, 233 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: that's so interesting that you bring this up because I 234 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: have a daughter who's in college and even visiting her 235 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 1: in college. When I was in school, of course, I'm 236 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: much older than you and Brian, but I remember spending 237 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 1: time in the hallway, uh, drinking like cup of soup 238 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 1: we had made from our hot pot, right boiling water 239 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 1: in our hot pot, or making popcorn and ordering a 240 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: pizza and sitting in the hall you know, a big 241 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: group of us and just blowing off steam, talking, sharing stories. 242 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 1: And when I visited my daughter in college, I noticed 243 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 1: that a lot of kids in their downtime spend time 244 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 1: on their computer. They're watching movies, they're watching TV shows, 245 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 1: they're talking to their friends, but they're not actually hanging out. Yes, 246 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: many people who could this have said, well, you know, teens, 247 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 1: young adults, they're they're just they're just talking to their 248 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: friends when they're on their phones, are on their computer, 249 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: they're communicating with their friends. Teens have always done that, 250 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 1: they're just using a different method. I think that assumes 251 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 1: that that's the same that electronic communication and in person 252 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 1: communication are. They are equal for mental health and well being. 253 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 1: They are not. They are definitely not. Face to face 254 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 1: interaction predicts more happiness, less depression, screen time the opposite. 255 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: You know, we should stop and think about what people 256 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 1: are actually seeing on these social media sites like Instagram, 257 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 1: and for people my age, it's like everyone's on the 258 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 1: greatest vacation ever at all times, and so you kind 259 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 1: of feel bad about that with the best bodies, that 260 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 1: the most beautiful skin ever. Well and and your and 261 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 1: to that point, Katie, particularly for younger people, UM, I 262 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 1: think the images are off and almost pornographic. It's like, um, 263 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:08,159 Speaker 1: girls in really skimpy swimsuits showing off their bodies, and 264 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 1: if your body doesn't look like that, you feel really 265 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: bad about yourself. Ibit Uh sister who's much younger, who 266 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 1: talks about this, and um, I'm sure that contributes to 267 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: this feeling of insecurity and feeling left out. Yeah, absolutely, 268 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:24,640 Speaker 1: and that you know, that's one of the questions that 269 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:28,160 Speaker 1: they're asked on these big surveys is do you feel 270 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 1: left out? And that really started to go up and around, 271 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 1: so um teens are now more likely to say that 272 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:41,399 Speaker 1: they feel left out and lonely than they did just 273 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:46,640 Speaker 1: five years ago, which is particularly interesting because social media 274 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 1: they advertise themselves as connecting us and leading to less loneliness, 275 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 1: but the opposite actually seems seems to be true. It's 276 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:59,919 Speaker 1: the ultimate irony in many ways, these devices that are 277 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:03,439 Speaker 1: ostensibly keep us connected actually make us feel lonely and 278 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 1: isolated more than ever before. And one thing I wanted 279 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:09,719 Speaker 1: to talk to you Gene about is sort of the 280 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 1: physiological impact of some of these things like smartphones and 281 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:17,160 Speaker 1: the addictive nature. I don't think it takes a teenage 282 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: boy or girl to know that we often reach for 283 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:25,399 Speaker 1: our smartphone. We feel panicky if we can't find our phone. 284 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 1: Has become almost an appendage, a third arm, if you will, 285 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: talk about the impact that's having on this generation. So 286 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 1: there's you know, increasing amount of research suggesting that smartphones 287 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 1: are addictive, that they light up the same areas of 288 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: the brain that they and gender the same brain chemicals 289 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:52,679 Speaker 1: as other types of addictions. So that's why it's so 290 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 1: difficult to stop, even if you know that it's bad 291 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: for you, because you might ask that question, well, if 292 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 1: it's so bad, then why do they do it so much? 293 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:04,119 Speaker 1: Because it is addictive. They also feel a lot of 294 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 1: social pressure to to do it. But it's that constant stimulation. 295 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:13,920 Speaker 1: It's it's one of those things, just like drug addiction. 296 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,120 Speaker 1: It feels good, but only for a short amount of time, 297 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 1: and then it feels bad, and that's the problem with it. 298 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 1: You know, there was a man recently in the news 299 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 1: who wanted to ban cell phones or prevent kids under thirteen, 300 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:30,960 Speaker 1: I believe, from getting a smartphone in his community, and 301 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,400 Speaker 1: of course he people laughed about that and thought it 302 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:37,439 Speaker 1: was ridiculous. But do you think that's going to be 303 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 1: given greater consideration. A friend of mine who studies these 304 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 1: things said, you know, you wouldn't give alcohol to a 305 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 1: ten year old, and you're giving them free reign over 306 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,880 Speaker 1: something that is, in fact, highly addictive. What are your 307 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 1: thoughts on that gene? I do think it is a 308 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 1: good idea for parents to put off getting a smartphone 309 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 1: for their kids as long as possible. UM. And one 310 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,639 Speaker 1: one reason I haint that is I looked at that 311 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:10,399 Speaker 1: in this UM analysis. Sure Enough, the effect of social 312 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 1: media on depression is largest for eighth graders, a little 313 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 1: lower for tenth graders, and lower still for twelfth graders. 314 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,440 Speaker 1: Eighth graders are just not much less. Sixth graders, many 315 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:24,880 Speaker 1: of them do have smartphones, are at a very vulnerable 316 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 1: time in their development, and often don't have the emotional 317 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 1: resources to deal with a lot of the stuff that 318 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 1: happens online. So if you're worried about your kid taking 319 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: the bus, get him a flip phone. They still sell them. 320 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:40,959 Speaker 1: They can still call you and text you by pressing 321 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: the same you know number three times. Remember that from 322 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 1: ten years ago. You know, it's interesting. A number of 323 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 1: my friends in Silicon Valley, some of whom work for 324 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: these social media companies, not only prevent their kids from 325 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,639 Speaker 1: getting smartphones until they're you know, well into high school, 326 00:20:55,960 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 1: but they themselves have deleted the face Book app or 327 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: the Instagram app from their phones so that they're not tempted. 328 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 1: You know, they maybe check it once or twice a 329 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: day on their computers, but they just they don't trust 330 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:12,919 Speaker 1: themselves to resist the temptation if it's on their phones, 331 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 1: and so they just they solve it that way. I mean, 332 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 1: do you think that there are other strategies that parents 333 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 1: or young people themselves could employ to kind of moderate 334 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:26,439 Speaker 1: our use of these technologies. Yeah. So for you know, 335 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 1: for for parents, there there are apps out there that 336 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,200 Speaker 1: you can put on your kid's phone once they eventually 337 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 1: get one, um, which will restrict the number of time 338 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,399 Speaker 1: hours of day they can use it and also on 339 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:39,199 Speaker 1: the time of day when they use it. So you 340 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,160 Speaker 1: can have it turned off at nine o'clock and then 341 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 1: not back on until seven in the morning if you 342 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:45,960 Speaker 1: want them to be able to relax before they go 343 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,239 Speaker 1: to sleep and get a good night's sleep. Uh. And 344 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 1: then I think that strategy of only having social media 345 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 1: on your desktop or your laptop rather than on your 346 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 1: phone is a really good one. Actually all of that. Myself, 347 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,639 Speaker 1: I'm a very late convert to social media. Um, I 348 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: am on Twitter to talk about some of these issues, 349 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:09,439 Speaker 1: but I do it only on my desktop. I do 350 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 1: not have it on my phone. Let's take a short break. 351 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,159 Speaker 1: When we return, we'll have much more with psychologists, Gene 352 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:24,160 Speaker 1: twiny about teenagers and their digital diets. And I'm also 353 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 1: going to check to see if I have any new emails. 354 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:36,919 Speaker 1: That's right after this. One thing that your study and 355 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 1: your book points out, Gene is this really crosses socioeconomic lines. 356 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,680 Speaker 1: We're not just talking about a bunch of spoiled rich 357 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:48,400 Speaker 1: kids who are having these problems or who are interacting 358 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 1: with one another this way, are we? That's exactly right. So, um, 359 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: the smartphone has completely collapsed the socio economic gap in 360 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:02,640 Speaker 1: internet access. Uh, Teens who are from disadvantaged backgrounds are 361 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,359 Speaker 1: just as likely and actually a little more likely to 362 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 1: spend a lot of hours online compared to those with 363 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 1: more money and more resources. So it's I think it's 364 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:16,640 Speaker 1: really important to get across that message that these effects 365 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 1: of smartphones are not going to be isolated to just 366 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:23,400 Speaker 1: you know, rich communities. Um, that they occur across ethnicity, 367 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 1: across soci economic status, across region. They're very very pervasive 368 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,919 Speaker 1: trends that that really show up among many different groups. 369 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,159 Speaker 1: And you know, Brian, the other thing we didn't talk about, 370 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,960 Speaker 1: which I think Gene alluded to, is this ability to 371 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,959 Speaker 1: be empathetic, to have empathy that's one of the most 372 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:45,159 Speaker 1: important reasons that you need to have face to face contact. 373 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:49,199 Speaker 1: Isn't a gene because you to develop emotional intelligence, you 374 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 1: have to be able to have that verbal interplay and 375 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 1: really read somebody and understand how your words are making 376 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 1: that person feel. Yeah, and that's you know, another area. 377 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: There is one study that suggests as screen time is 378 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 1: having a negative impact on social skills. They looked at 379 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: sixth graders who either you know, live their normal lives 380 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:14,880 Speaker 1: or went to a camp for five days where they 381 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,640 Speaker 1: had no access to screens, and sure enough, the kids 382 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,119 Speaker 1: who went to the screen free camp at the end 383 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 1: of that time had improved their social skills more. There's 384 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 1: a great quote in your piece in which you say, 385 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 1: in the next decade, we may see more adults who 386 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,120 Speaker 1: know just the right emoji for a situation, but not 387 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 1: the right facial expression. I think people don't necessarily realize 388 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:41,639 Speaker 1: the consequences on in person conversations of spending all of 389 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: this time staring at phones. Yes, so not only our 390 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:49,680 Speaker 1: teens interacting with each other in person less when they 391 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:53,119 Speaker 1: are with their friends in person, they often have their phones. 392 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 1: They're often looking at their phones, So that reduction in 393 00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 1: face to face time may be considerably larger um, given 394 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 1: that that face to face time sometimes it isn't even 395 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 1: face to FaceTime, Geen. You know you we're focusing on 396 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:11,439 Speaker 1: on kids or on teenagers, and and that's really the 397 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,399 Speaker 1: subject of your book with I, Gen, But aren't you 398 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 1: concerned about the impact this is having on all of 399 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,960 Speaker 1: us in terms of what it's doing to our humanity, 400 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,879 Speaker 1: our ability to relate to each other, the way we 401 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,480 Speaker 1: spend our time, and our overall quality of life. Can 402 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 1: you tell I have an issue here, Gene? Yeah, well, 403 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:34,440 Speaker 1: and yeah, and I agree completely. I my particular studying book, 404 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,919 Speaker 1: you know, focuses mostly on teens, but I hope to 405 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 1: look more at adults in the future and see how 406 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 1: it's affecting all of us. And there are lots of 407 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 1: other studies suggesting that these same effects of smartphones and 408 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:52,200 Speaker 1: screen time on loneliness and depression and psychological will being 409 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: show up for adults as well. So this, yeah, this 410 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,360 Speaker 1: is not just a problem with teens. It is an 411 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,680 Speaker 1: issue um with the adults as well. So it's something 412 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 1: we all need to think about carefully. What are the 413 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 1: practical ramifications of this though? I mean, as you see 414 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:12,359 Speaker 1: this I gen or this generation of children and teenagers 415 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:18,359 Speaker 1: completely focused on technology and the impact technology is having 416 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:23,120 Speaker 1: on how they spend their days. What do you see 417 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,440 Speaker 1: occurring in the future, I mean, and how worried are 418 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:31,400 Speaker 1: you about this? I am. I'm the most worried about 419 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 1: these mental health trends. UM. That's one of the reasons 420 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,359 Speaker 1: I wrote the book. And there's now so much evidence 421 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,679 Speaker 1: UM showing these trends and showing that smartphones, you know, 422 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:45,639 Speaker 1: might be playing a role in it. I think we 423 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 1: really need to take this seriously. So I'm really hoping 424 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 1: that there will be more attention paid to that maybe 425 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,160 Speaker 1: we can try to stop some of these negative trends 426 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: in their tracks with some sensible solutions. You now, we 427 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: don't have to take phones away entirely, but try to 428 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,199 Speaker 1: moderate their use and just pay more attention to this. 429 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,479 Speaker 1: And also, parents, just realize your kids hanging out with 430 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,959 Speaker 1: their friends, it's not wasted time. They are building valuable 431 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,479 Speaker 1: skills for relationships and the workplace when they're doing that. 432 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 1: I think also one of the topics I'm really interested 433 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: in in terms of UH technology and smartphones is how 434 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 1: distracted we are by them and the fact that we 435 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,959 Speaker 1: have very little down time, so to speak. And I 436 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,199 Speaker 1: remember giving a commencement address. I told you, Gene, I 437 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:40,159 Speaker 1: often quoted your Generation Me book and my commencement addresses, 438 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 1: but I also talked about the importance of not focusing 439 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 1: on something, of giving your brain a break, I guess, 440 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 1: and daydreaming. And I read that the part of your 441 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:57,920 Speaker 1: brain that's responsible for creativity is really ignited when you're 442 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:00,880 Speaker 1: not doing a specific task. And that's why we come 443 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 1: up with great ideas when we're in the shower, right 444 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: when we have some time and let our minds wander. Um, 445 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,360 Speaker 1: is that something that you've looked at or thought about? So, yeah, 446 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: I haven't been able to research that specifically, but I'm 447 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:18,119 Speaker 1: a big believer UM in kids occasionally getting good and 448 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,639 Speaker 1: board and just kind of letting their minds wander and 449 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,359 Speaker 1: having time to read a book or maybe read a 450 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:26,199 Speaker 1: couple of pages of one book and then another or 451 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:30,440 Speaker 1: however they want to spend the time, and just not 452 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,479 Speaker 1: always having that screen available, not having every minute of 453 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 1: the day scheduled, that they can have that time away 454 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:45,160 Speaker 1: from screens to just explore and think and read. Uh, 455 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 1: is just so important for their development cognitively. Emotionally and 456 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 1: everything else. It's interesting now. When I was growing up, Brian, 457 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 1: I would always say to my mom in the summer 458 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 1: when I didn't you know, maybe she put me in 459 00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 1: summer school for a while, or but I had I 460 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 1: had some downtime, and I would say, Mom, I'm so bored. 461 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think kids ever say that anymore? Right, 462 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 1: I would go. She would say, go read. So I'd 463 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 1: go up down my room. I'd put my pillow on 464 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 1: our window unit air conditioner, make it really really cold, 465 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 1: and then I'd lie on my pillow and read. Hey, 466 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,800 Speaker 1: who says I was exciting kid? But I mean, do 467 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 1: you ever hear kids now say I'm bored because they 468 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 1: have something to occupy them? Seven? Right? You guys? My 469 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 1: my kids still say that they do because they're not 470 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 1: allowed to use smartphones, probably right exactly because they don't 471 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 1: have smartphones and even you know the little tablets. Um 472 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 1: they you know, they that's what they want to be doing. 473 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:41,720 Speaker 1: But I most of the time don't let them. I 474 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 1: I usually gesture to all the books that we have. 475 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 1: I'm like, how can you possibly be bored? We have 476 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 1: all of those books? Go read one Gene. We can't 477 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: have this conversation without talking about my latest obsession, which 478 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 1: is texting and driving. If you walk around any American 479 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 1: city these days, you look into the cars and people 480 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 1: are just staring at their smartphone. And the statistics on 481 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: this are just absolutely terrifying. One out of four car 482 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:09,479 Speaker 1: accidents are caused by texting while driving. The average text 483 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 1: will distract a driver for about five seconds. The average 484 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 1: drivers going fifty That means that the driver is driving 485 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 1: the length of a football field without looking out, And 486 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: so it's it's actually more dangerous than drunk driving, and 487 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:28,960 Speaker 1: so what can we do about It's so infuriating by 488 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,080 Speaker 1: the way, I I see people texting and I like 489 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,960 Speaker 1: wag my finger at them and say stop texting. And 490 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 1: I'm sure they think I'm a crazy person, which I am, 491 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 1: but it infuriates me when I see someone texting when 492 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 1: they're driving. Well, and one study showed the cent of 493 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 1: teens respond to at least one text while driving every 494 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 1: single time they drive. So this is just epidemic. Yep. 495 00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 1: What can be done about this? Gene anything? Well, has 496 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 1: anybody invented an app yet that will shut off the 497 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,920 Speaker 1: phone if it's moving faster than twenty. Actually they have. 498 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,959 Speaker 1: I did a profile of this gentleman on Yahoo, and 499 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: a friend of mine told me that Germany has just 500 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 1: installed ground level you know, walk don't walk signs because 501 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 1: cell phone users aren't looking up, they're looking down, and 502 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 1: so they're building them into the pavements so pedestrians don't 503 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 1: get hit by cars, which I think is a real 504 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 1: sign of the time, so to speak. Absolutely, yeah, it 505 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 1: really is. Wow. I feel like so many others that 506 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 1: I am very addicted to my smartphone that uh, when 507 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 1: I have a moment of downtime, I check it, I 508 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,320 Speaker 1: look at it, and then I get sucked into this 509 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 1: vortex of useless information and I'm like, oh, I want 510 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,880 Speaker 1: to see what these actors look like. You won't believe 511 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,880 Speaker 1: it they like or I want to see how fat 512 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 1: someone is in a bathing suit and it's sick, right, 513 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 1: And then I get more of that garbage because I 514 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 1: clicked on it. It's terrible. But um, yes, I need 515 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 1: I need help. Gene. Um. I don't know if you're 516 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 1: the person. Maybe I need to discuss this with my therapist. 517 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 1: But what advice would you give to people? Would you say, like, 518 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 1: put your phone away? Nothing's more depressing to me when 519 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 1: I go out to dinner. I'm not this bad, Brian 520 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,880 Speaker 1: and Geen, But when I go out to dinner and 521 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 1: I see couples like having a romantic dinner and they're 522 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:28,080 Speaker 1: both on their phones, or a group of friends, and 523 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 1: every last one of them is on their phones. But listen, 524 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 1: I'm sure people listening to this, our listeners, who I love, 525 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,160 Speaker 1: by the way, thank you all for listening. I'm sure 526 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 1: they've seen this too, and I hope they're not the 527 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 1: people who are on their phones because they're not going 528 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 1: to be listening to the podcast anymore. But don't you 529 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,960 Speaker 1: think that's insane? I I do. I think it is 530 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 1: just simple awareness and politeness. Have that phone put away 531 00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:01,440 Speaker 1: during dinner when you're spending time face to face with 532 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 1: a friend. That we have to set limits on this 533 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 1: um ensure if you know you're expecting a really important call, 534 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,520 Speaker 1: they just you can figure it out then. But that 535 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:17,440 Speaker 1: thing of everybody at dinner swiping through the phone, you 536 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 1: have to set that limit. Um it just has it 537 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 1: has to stay in your purse or in your briefcase 538 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:26,720 Speaker 1: or in your pocket if you're going to be truly 539 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 1: present for that situation. If you're gonna be truly present 540 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 1: in your own life, that phone has to be out 541 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:36,240 Speaker 1: of your hand. But Jean and fairness to smartphone users. 542 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 1: A lot of this is not checking social media. A 543 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:43,400 Speaker 1: lot of this is workplace culture now where if you're 544 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 1: the first one to respond to an email, your boss 545 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,480 Speaker 1: thinks more highly of you. If you're a journalist and 546 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,239 Speaker 1: you're not on top of Twitter all the time, you 547 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,360 Speaker 1: feel like you're behind the curve. And so a lot 548 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:56,880 Speaker 1: of it is not that we want to be on 549 00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 1: our smartphones all the time. It's that we feel like 550 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,320 Speaker 1: we have to be in order to succeed professionally. I 551 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 1: under I understand that impulse completely so um and I 552 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 1: think everybody's just gonna try to figure that out as 553 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,239 Speaker 1: much as they can. That you have to resist that temptation. 554 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 1: Once you've done that work email, then put it away. 555 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 1: Um And Yeah, everybody has clicked on the You know 556 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 1: why Hollywood doesn't hire Brandon Frazer A nam there? Oh, 557 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:29,319 Speaker 1: I really want to know that Umnood's answer to that 558 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:33,080 Speaker 1: horrible plastic surgery. I gotta see that the worst people 559 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,440 Speaker 1: in Hollywood to work with, they're the worst people in 560 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 1: America to work with. I'm always afraid I'm going to 561 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,200 Speaker 1: click it and I'm going to see myself. Oh no, 562 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 1: highly doubt you've only been on a couple of those 563 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:49,000 Speaker 1: less Thank you, Brian. Having said that, I think a 564 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,480 Speaker 1: lot of employers are starting to think about this, and 565 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:57,439 Speaker 1: there's some companies where they forbid people, Brian from being 566 00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:01,000 Speaker 1: on email after a certain hour. And so I think 567 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 1: we're seeing people slowly but surely realize the detrimental effects 568 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:11,120 Speaker 1: of this constant connectivity, and I think they're starting to 569 00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:16,080 Speaker 1: take steps to to change things, do you, Gene. I 570 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,319 Speaker 1: think there is more awareness. And one of the things 571 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,360 Speaker 1: that actually surprised me the most in the interviews I 572 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 1: did with Gentines was how many of them are aware 573 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:30,520 Speaker 1: of the negative effects of smartphones. So the girl who 574 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:35,720 Speaker 1: I call Athena in the Atlantic piece, it seems fully aware. 575 00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:40,960 Speaker 1: She's thirteens, never known a world without smartphones, but realizes 576 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,520 Speaker 1: that having a conversation with a friend when she's trying 577 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,960 Speaker 1: to look at her phone is infuriating. And I think 578 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 1: most of us, you know, completely agree with that, and 579 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,799 Speaker 1: that that a thirteen year old would still recognize that 580 00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:59,720 Speaker 1: gave me some hope that if we realize the effect 581 00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:01,880 Speaker 1: that the things are having. That's the first step to 582 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,279 Speaker 1: try to do something about it. And if and if 583 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,880 Speaker 1: even a team who's never known any other world realizes this, 584 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,040 Speaker 1: I think the rest of us can too. When I 585 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,799 Speaker 1: read your article, I started thinking about my own childhood 586 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:19,160 Speaker 1: and the concerns about too much television viewing, and I thought, well, 587 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 1: is this really more of the same, And then I 588 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:28,040 Speaker 1: realized the differences the ubiquity of technology in our lives. 589 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:31,319 Speaker 1: You didn't have the television on. You couldn't take your 590 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,279 Speaker 1: TV with you when you went to the playground or 591 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,399 Speaker 1: went out on a date, or went to school. And 592 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:41,480 Speaker 1: so it's the fact that that technology is now so omnipresent. 593 00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:45,600 Speaker 1: It's really changed the face of how we live and 594 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 1: how we interact with each other. Yeah, I think that's 595 00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:50,719 Speaker 1: one of the keys. I think that's also why, you 596 00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:52,680 Speaker 1: know a lot of these trends don't start to show 597 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:56,160 Speaker 1: up until most people have a smartphone. That because the 598 00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:59,440 Speaker 1: Internet has been around for a while, that it's having 599 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:04,200 Speaker 1: that tech knowlogy always with you. With that said, TV 600 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:09,520 Speaker 1: does have negative effects on happiness and depression. So sometimes 601 00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 1: when people say, well, everybody said TV was going to 602 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:15,399 Speaker 1: make people depressed. Well, it does, um, and social media 603 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,400 Speaker 1: and smartphones happen to be a little bit worse. They 604 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:19,080 Speaker 1: have it a little bit of a stronger correlation. But 605 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:22,480 Speaker 1: TV isn't great either, all right, duly noted by the 606 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:27,239 Speaker 1: way we um. Here's another telling teen adult exchange that 607 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:29,960 Speaker 1: we just wanted to mention mid Roles. Head of Revenue, 608 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,560 Speaker 1: Lex Friedman chatted with his teenage niece le Or over 609 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:37,680 Speaker 1: Facebook messenger. Gosh, listen to the way we're even leading 610 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,680 Speaker 1: up to this about calling to our show. Here's what 611 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:44,080 Speaker 1: she said. She said, tell Katie Kirk that I was 612 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:47,319 Speaker 1: born in nineteen and I would for sure take a 613 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:51,279 Speaker 1: bullet for my phone. Lex then told her leave her 614 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,600 Speaker 1: a voicemail, and she said, Lex, I just said I 615 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:58,520 Speaker 1: was born in nineteen. I've never left a voicemail in 616 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:05,080 Speaker 1: my life. So there you have it, right. I mean, 617 00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:08,880 Speaker 1: how much of this handwringing, though, is sort of by 618 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,960 Speaker 1: old fogies who are saying, kids, what's the matter with 619 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:18,360 Speaker 1: kids today? And is it being overgo? What's the matter 620 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:24,560 Speaker 1: with kids today? Remember Paul land from by Bertie. But 621 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 1: I mean, how much of this is that? Gene? Well, 622 00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:34,080 Speaker 1: you know I went into this without any expectations really 623 00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:37,240 Speaker 1: about what would show up. I just monitor these national 624 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:42,200 Speaker 1: databases and kind of see what trends end up showing up. UM. 625 00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:46,040 Speaker 1: It was a real process of seeing the trends possibly 626 00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,400 Speaker 1: connecting it to the smartphones and these surveys. This is 627 00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,480 Speaker 1: what teens say about themselves. This says nothing to do 628 00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:56,040 Speaker 1: with what older people are complaining about. UM. It's all 629 00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:59,640 Speaker 1: about what teens are experiencing, how they're spending their time, 630 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,640 Speaker 1: and how it's making them feel. UM. And I think 631 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,160 Speaker 1: that's that's where you have to start, is you know, 632 00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:10,920 Speaker 1: really listening to teens um. And that's that's been my 633 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,200 Speaker 1: philosophy for a while with this generation's research, is to 634 00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:17,920 Speaker 1: really listen to young people themselves, UM, both in surveys 635 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:22,480 Speaker 1: in in interviews. UM. And I'm not usually concerned with 636 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:24,600 Speaker 1: what people think. I'm concerned about, which is, oh, you know, 637 00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,319 Speaker 1: I haven't people always said that, Mom. I don't care 638 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,640 Speaker 1: what people say. I want to know what young people 639 00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,359 Speaker 1: say now compared to what young people used to say 640 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:34,799 Speaker 1: ten years ago, or twenty years ago or thirty years ago. 641 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,080 Speaker 1: I want to add one other thing that may sound 642 00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:40,240 Speaker 1: a little bit preachy, but Gene, don't you think parents 643 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:44,040 Speaker 1: need to take more control. This seems to be I 644 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:49,320 Speaker 1: think coinciding with this trend to over parent and coddle kids. 645 00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,239 Speaker 1: And they want them to be popular, so they want 646 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,520 Speaker 1: them to have access to social media and be able 647 00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:57,799 Speaker 1: to talk to their friends, etcetera, etcetera. But do you 648 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,799 Speaker 1: think it's time for parents to say, Hey, we're gonna 649 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:03,880 Speaker 1: have a basket where everybody puts their phone after a 650 00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:08,279 Speaker 1: certain time at night, and we're gonna go out and 651 00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:10,799 Speaker 1: we're going to do something as a family, everyone leave 652 00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:14,760 Speaker 1: their smartphone behind. In other words, should parents start acting 653 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:18,360 Speaker 1: a little more parental? So I'm I'm a parent myself 654 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:21,360 Speaker 1: of three of three kids. It's a tough job. Setting 655 00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:24,840 Speaker 1: those limits is a struggle every single day, but it 656 00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:26,880 Speaker 1: has to be done. And I think a lot of 657 00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:30,759 Speaker 1: parents up to this point just haven't really gotten the 658 00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:36,080 Speaker 1: right information about how smartphones are affecting their kids. Um 659 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,400 Speaker 1: that's number one. And then and then there is the 660 00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:41,520 Speaker 1: reluctance to set limits, which is there as well, which 661 00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:45,000 Speaker 1: you just have to fight. Um. Yes, you want your 662 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:46,839 Speaker 1: kid to be happy, but you have to think about 663 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,640 Speaker 1: their long term health and happiness, not just their short 664 00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:52,759 Speaker 1: term health and happiness. I mean to to make an 665 00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:56,160 Speaker 1: analogy something that's different from a smartphone. If I really 666 00:40:56,160 --> 00:41:00,600 Speaker 1: wanted my kids to be happy at dinner time, I 667 00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:03,040 Speaker 1: would say, guess what, kids, we're having cookies and ice 668 00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:06,759 Speaker 1: cream for dinner. Would that be something that would make 669 00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,759 Speaker 1: them happy? Absolutely? But is that a good idea in 670 00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,959 Speaker 1: the long run for them learning how to eat healthy? 671 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,719 Speaker 1: And if we did that every night, their teeth would 672 00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,799 Speaker 1: run out of their head and they never get, you know, 673 00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:21,040 Speaker 1: a healthy diet, and they never learned how to how 674 00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:24,400 Speaker 1: to eat well. Um. And the same is true for smartphones. 675 00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:27,360 Speaker 1: Those limits have to be set by the way I 676 00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,560 Speaker 1: should mention. People should do what I say and not 677 00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:35,000 Speaker 1: what I do. I don't necessarily have control over this myself, 678 00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,799 Speaker 1: since I sound like such a no at all, smarty pants, Well, 679 00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:41,200 Speaker 1: what are three or four tips for parents? And closing 680 00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:46,840 Speaker 1: gene too? Kind of get this really growing problem under control. 681 00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,080 Speaker 1: So put off getting your kids a smartphone for as 682 00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:52,600 Speaker 1: long as possible. Get a flip phone if you feel 683 00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:55,440 Speaker 1: they really need a phone set up. When they do 684 00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:57,839 Speaker 1: get a smartphone, one of those apps that will make 685 00:41:57,880 --> 00:41:59,360 Speaker 1: sure they're not on it in the middle of the 686 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,279 Speaker 1: night and will restrict the number of hours a day 687 00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:06,760 Speaker 1: they use it. Um, if you're on social media, consider 688 00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:10,160 Speaker 1: not doing it on your phone, but doing it only 689 00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:14,560 Speaker 1: on a on a desktop, and in general, realize that 690 00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:17,759 Speaker 1: spending time with other people in person is one of 691 00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,319 Speaker 1: the greatest joys of human existence. And it's not a 692 00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:21,960 Speaker 1: waste of time for teens, it's not a waste of 693 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:25,200 Speaker 1: time for adults. Uh, And that it is better for 694 00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:29,000 Speaker 1: mental health than staring at that screen. Well, Gen Twangy, 695 00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:31,960 Speaker 1: I really enjoyed talking to I know this is something 696 00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,440 Speaker 1: that Brian and I are both enormously interested in, and 697 00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:39,080 Speaker 1: I think this should be a warning to parents and 698 00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:43,640 Speaker 1: two kids alike to really enjoy all the wonders of 699 00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:46,799 Speaker 1: technology and what you can do as a result of it. 700 00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:51,799 Speaker 1: But like everything, it should be a moderation exactly. Thank you, 701 00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:56,320 Speaker 1: Thanks Geen, Thank you, thank you Brian text me just 702 00:42:56,480 --> 00:43:03,920 Speaker 1: kidding as always, A big thank you to our production 703 00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:08,279 Speaker 1: team are Crack Pod Squad, our producer, Gianna Palmer, our 704 00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:11,120 Speaker 1: audio engineers. Was that a little cheesy? I like it? 705 00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:14,520 Speaker 1: Who's Peggy Lipton? I don't know. I think you are, 706 00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:20,600 Speaker 1: Gianna your link our audio engineers, Jared O'Connell and New 707 00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:23,400 Speaker 1: York and Ryan Connor here in l A thanks also 708 00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:26,719 Speaker 1: to our production assistant Nora Richie, to Emily Beana of 709 00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:31,480 Speaker 1: Katie Currect Media for her production assistance, and lastly, thanks 710 00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:35,240 Speaker 1: to Alison Bresnik for her fine work on social media. 711 00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:37,319 Speaker 1: Actually it's not lastly, because we also want to thank 712 00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:41,160 Speaker 1: Mark Phillips for our very rock and theme music. By 713 00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:44,520 Speaker 1: the way, Brian and I are executive producers of this podcast. 714 00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,279 Speaker 1: And hey, have you emailed us yet? It comments at 715 00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:50,839 Speaker 1: correct podcast dot com. Keep it clean, people, How about 716 00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:54,759 Speaker 1: leaving us a voicemail something that that young woman has 717 00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:57,080 Speaker 1: never done. If you're of a certain age, you all 718 00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:00,239 Speaker 1: know what a voicemail is. Anyway, you can do so 719 00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,920 Speaker 1: at nine to nine two two four four six three seven. 720 00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:07,560 Speaker 1: Again that's nine to nine two two four four six 721 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:11,000 Speaker 1: three seven. Please, we love to hear from you and 722 00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:14,080 Speaker 1: tell us nice things about our podcasts are not nice 723 00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:17,400 Speaker 1: things were open to constructive criticism. If you don't know 724 00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:20,759 Speaker 1: my social media handles by now, I mean you've been 725 00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:23,920 Speaker 1: living under a rock people. I'm kidding. I'm I'm at 726 00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:26,799 Speaker 1: Katie Couric on Twitter and Instagram and Katie dot Corric 727 00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:29,360 Speaker 1: on Snapchat and you can find me on Facebook as well. 728 00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:33,560 Speaker 1: Brian meanwhile, is a Twitter fiend. He is always on 729 00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:37,439 Speaker 1: Twitter and his handle is at Goldsmith b And maybe 730 00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:39,320 Speaker 1: I'll be on Twitter a little less as a result 731 00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:42,000 Speaker 1: of this episode, I hope. So anyway, you've made it 732 00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:44,719 Speaker 1: this far into the show, so why stop interacting with 733 00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:48,040 Speaker 1: us now? Go on over to Apple Podcasts and rate 734 00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:50,759 Speaker 1: and review our show. We would really appreciate it. It's 735 00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,520 Speaker 1: how more people can learn about the show and can 736 00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:58,399 Speaker 1: subscribe themselves. So please rate, please review, please subscribe, and 737 00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:05,600 Speaker 1: until next time, thanks for listening. Bye yeah