1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: Welcome. It is verdict or Ted Cruz Weekend Review. Ben 2 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:06,040 Speaker 1: Ferguson with you, and these are the stories that you 3 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 1: may have missed that we talked about this past week. 4 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 2: It started with Elon Musk. 5 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: Well, there's a new scheme now to bring him down 6 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:18,479 Speaker 1: as advertisers are trying to destroy his platform x formerly 7 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 1: known as Twitter. 8 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:21,960 Speaker 2: By pulling all of their ad dollars. 9 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: So what can you do to stand by the man 10 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: that is standing by free speech? 11 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 2: Will explain that in a moment. 12 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: Plus, Christopher Ray, the FBI Director, had a big toe 13 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 1: to toe battle with Senator Ted Cruz, and you won't 14 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:38,159 Speaker 1: want to miss the back and forth. And finally Sandrade O'Connor, 15 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 1: former Supreme Court justice, passed away. Senator Ted Cruz took 16 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: some time to talk about some of the most historic 17 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,639 Speaker 1: court cases and his memories of Sandrade O'Connor. 18 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 2: It's the weekend Review and it starts right now. 19 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 3: Let me ask you how many of you are grateful 20 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 3: that Elon Musk purchased Twitter. I'll tell you I'm intensely grateful. 21 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 3: I think it is the single most important development for 22 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 3: free speech in decades. But what is striking, and this 23 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 3: again is a topic I discussed at great length in 24 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 3: my brand new book, Unwoke, is how corporate America has 25 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 3: become woke and how they use economic power to punish 26 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:25,040 Speaker 3: those that crossed them. So corporate America is mad at 27 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 3: Elon Musk Why because he stopped censoring views that were 28 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 3: not the orthodoxy of the Biden White House. He stopped 29 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 3: censoring conservative views, and he allowed free speech to occur. Now, 30 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 3: what was the volcanic rage of corporate America? One company 31 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 3: after another began boycotting what used to be Twitter is 32 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 3: now x. So IBM was the first to pull its ad. So, IBM, 33 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 3: if you have an IBM computer at home, you know 34 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 3: what you're supporting? A company that says we're not going 35 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 3: to advertise on a social media company that believes in 36 00:01:54,920 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 3: free speech. Now, right after IBM, what followed Apple, Disney, Sony, 37 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:08,639 Speaker 3: Warner Brothers, Comcast, NBC, Universal, and Paramount. All of them 38 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:10,799 Speaker 3: have said we're pulling our ads. But not only that, 39 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 3: you know who else has pulled their ads? Chevrolet, Chipotle, Ford, Jeep, Kindrel, 40 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 3: Mercant Company, Novartis AG and Eli Lilly in Company. All 41 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 3: of these companies, they are engaged in censorship. Understand when 42 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 3: they say. 43 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 1: It's the corporate assassination of a free speech company, orchestrated 44 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: and designed to cripple them and to bring them to 45 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:42,839 Speaker 1: their neees. This doesn't happen by accident. I think that's 46 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: what some people need to understand. When one corporation does 47 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 1: this and the others do it, don't think this isn't 48 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:51,920 Speaker 1: orchestrated and being done by the left in leftist groups 49 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: and organizations that organize these companies and get in the 50 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: ear of these companies and say, hey, guys, so and 51 00:02:58,480 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: so is going to do it, you should do it too. 52 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:01,919 Speaker 1: And then they call the next one they say, hey, guys, 53 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:03,920 Speaker 1: we hear these two companies are about the boycott. 54 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:04,799 Speaker 4: Are pull their ads? 55 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 3: You should too, and understand art. So here's what Elon 56 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 3: Muskus said about it. He said, the decisions of advertisers 57 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 3: to boycott Twitter quote could kill the company. And he 58 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 3: went on to say, quote and the whole world will 59 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 3: know that these advertisers killed the company. That is their 60 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:24,959 Speaker 3: objective and what they want. They want Twitter to go under, 61 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 3: they want X to go under, and then they want 62 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 3: the only social media to be Facebook controlled by Mark Zuckerberg. 63 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 3: That sensors conservative views because they're silence that works on 64 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 3: behalf of the Biden White House. They want Google that 65 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 3: is controlled by left wing socialists, that sensors views they 66 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 3: disagree with, that skews public discourse in the favor of 67 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 3: the left. They want YouTube that actively sensors conservative views, 68 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 3: including this podcast Verdict. 69 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, just a few weeks ago, they censored one of 70 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 1: our one of our episodes because we were telling the 71 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 1: truth about what was going on. 72 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 3: And mind you, we were telling the truth about a 73 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 3: Palestinian who, by all appearances is a christ this actor 74 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 3: who creates false videos pretending to be a victim of 75 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 3: what he claims is Israeli aggression, when in fact he's 76 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 3: a Hamas propagandist, and we laid out the evidence for that, 77 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 3: and YouTube propatly said, oh, oh, we don't want people 78 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 3: to notice this, so they blocked so you could not 79 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 3: access our podcast on YouTube without signing in and beh verified, 80 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:25,360 Speaker 3: because apparently seventeen year olds cannot know. 81 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 4: There's a crisis actor that's a Hamas warrior. 82 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 3: And mind you, it's not just that they want Facebook 83 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 3: and YouTube and Google to be driving the topics. They 84 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:37,040 Speaker 3: want TikTok, which is controlled by the Chinese Communist which 85 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 3: is actively pushing pro hamas propaganda. Every one of these companies, 86 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:43,840 Speaker 3: So I want you to go back and look at 87 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:56,160 Speaker 3: this list. Ibm Apple, Disney, Sony, Warner Brothers, Comcast, NBC, Universal, Paramount, Chevrolet, Chipotle, Ford, Jeep, Kindrel, 88 00:04:56,240 --> 00:05:00,160 Speaker 3: Mercan Company, novartis a g Eli Lillyan company. Every every 89 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:03,840 Speaker 3: one of them is saying you Americans, you don't deserve 90 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 3: the right to speak, and even more importantly, you don't 91 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 3: deserve the right to hear the speech of others. We 92 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 3: want big tech to silence and skew and mind you, 93 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:16,479 Speaker 3: this is all based on an allegation that is a 94 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 3: bogus allegation attacking Elon Musk for retweeting a tweet that 95 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:22,160 Speaker 3: their claiming is antisemitic. 96 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 5: Yeah, and it was deliberate. 97 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:26,839 Speaker 1: They just went and met with it over in Israel. 98 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 1: They just flew over there, met talked to the leadership 99 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:31,600 Speaker 1: and is now clearly supporting is. 100 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:34,479 Speaker 3: Look, their attack is deliberately disingenuous. But it doesn't matter, 101 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:37,280 Speaker 3: It doesn't matter what the claim is. It is an 102 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:43,600 Speaker 3: excuse because they want to use economic muscle to punish 103 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 3: Twitter and force either Elon musk to sell it or 104 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:50,239 Speaker 3: shut it down, because once they do, then the rest 105 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 3: of big tech will have a monopoly unchecked. And this 106 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:58,720 Speaker 3: is an assault on free speech. It's an intersection of 107 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 3: what I talk about in multiple chapters of my book Unwoke. 108 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:05,159 Speaker 3: It's an intersection of big tech, big business, and journalism 109 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 3: all coming together, and it's designed to be dishonest and 110 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 3: to silence free speech among the American people. 111 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: I want to talk to you real quick about your retirement. 112 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 1: You've probably seen a lot of the headlines lately. We 113 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 1: are the third highest deficit in US history. We are 114 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: also saying that there is more than one trillion dollars 115 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: now in debt. 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That's Augusta 144 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: Precious Metals dot com. Senator, last thing I want to 145 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: just point out here conservative radio. And many of you 146 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: know I do a podcast outside of this, and I 147 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 1: do an actual terrestrial radio show every day. For about 148 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: ten years now, everybody in radio has had to deal 149 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 1: with what Elon Musk is dealing with now, yep, which 150 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: is all corporate people stop spending money on conservative talk radio. 151 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: They went after the Great Wrestling Ball, That's where it started. Yes, 152 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: Then they went after Handy, then they went after Back, 153 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: Then they went after Leven, Then they went after guys 154 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: like me. 155 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 4: And what we used to have in radio was the 156 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 4: big ones. We had Chevy, we had John Dear, we 157 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 4: had you know, Mutual for None of. 158 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 3: These giant companies advertising conservative podcasts, none of that. There's 159 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:43,079 Speaker 3: a funny skit that we've talked about in Verdict a 160 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 3: couple of years ago that contrast a left wing hippie 161 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 3: comy Marxist podcast saying this podcast brought to you by Pfizer, 162 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 3: get the jab right now, you need your forty second 163 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 3: booster shot, yeah, compared to they have a conservative broad 164 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,679 Speaker 3: broadcast and they say this broadcast brought to you by 165 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 3: pay treat water, a bucket of water in your closet. 166 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 3: And and the contrast is strike striking because all of 167 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 3: the Fortune five hundred boycotts. 168 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:10,680 Speaker 1: None of them spend money, none of them will ever 169 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:14,320 Speaker 1: reach a conservative audience. They deliberately try to destroy conservative 170 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: talk radio. 171 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:18,199 Speaker 3: By the way, even Fox News, which is incredibly profitable 172 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 3: at the hour, spend an hour watching CNN, and spend 173 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 3: an hour watching Fox News, want right down? Who advertises CNN? 174 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 3: It's the entire Fortune one hundred. Fox News doesn't have 175 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 3: any of them. It's it's my pillow, which look, I'm grateful, 176 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 3: I'm grateful in my pillow advertises, because they are not 177 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 3: many that do. But even though Fox News has two x, 178 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:44,559 Speaker 3: three x, four x five x the vie as CNN 179 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:47,839 Speaker 3: on care, it's not about money. Understand, this is not 180 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 3: the economic marketplace. This is they're enforcing their ideology. They 181 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 3: don't want to support views that are right a center. 182 00:09:58,040 --> 00:09:59,439 Speaker 3: They want to silence them. 183 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 1: Now, if you I want to hear the rest of 184 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:03,679 Speaker 1: this conversation, you can go back and listen to the 185 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:08,199 Speaker 1: full podcast from earlier this week. Now onto story number 186 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: two brings me to also the fireworks that took place 187 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 1: this week, and it was between you and the FBI director. 188 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: I want to play a large chunk of this. But 189 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 1: before I do set the stage, why was the FBI 190 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 1: director before your committee in the Senate and what was 191 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 1: this all about? 192 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 3: Well, the FBI Director, Chris Ray was testifying before the 193 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 3: Senate Judiciary Committee, and periodically the director of the FBI 194 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 3: testifies before judiciary, and so I took the opportunity to 195 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 3: question him. And there are a lot of topics I 196 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 3: could have questioned him on. I could have questioned him 197 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 3: for hours on end, but I only had seven minutes, 198 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 3: and so I chose to use the seven minutes to 199 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 3: focus on the politicization of the FBI and the refusal 200 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 3: of the FBI to investigate the growing, the becoming overwhelming 201 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 3: evidence of Joe Biden's corruption, and so that's what I 202 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 3: asked him about. 203 00:10:58,080 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 1: I want to play a chunk of this because it's 204 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: really important, and I hope that every vertical listener will 205 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 1: make sure that you take this and share this podcast 206 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: so that you can let people know about what these 207 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 1: questions were. They're really important questions and also I would 208 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: argue the shocking response from the FBI Director Ray. 209 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:16,959 Speaker 2: Take a listen to this. 210 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 5: Thank you, miss chairman Director Ray. Welcome. 211 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 3: As you know, I am deeply concerned about the conduct 212 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 3: of both the Department of Justice and the FBI, particularly 213 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 3: in the last three years during the Biden administration. I 214 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 3: think the Department of Justice has been profoundly politicized under 215 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:39,959 Speaker 3: Attorney General Merrick Garland, and I think the FBI has 216 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 3: as well, and unfortunately, I think you've been unwilling to 217 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 3: stand up to senior career officials in the FBI who's 218 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:52,080 Speaker 3: allowed the FBI to be politicized. I'll tell you I 219 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 3: regularly speak with FBI agents across the country who are 220 00:11:55,920 --> 00:12:02,119 Speaker 3: unhappy about the integrity of the institution being weakened because 221 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 3: DOJ is being treated as a political weapon. I want 222 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 3: to talk in particular about the investigation into multiple allegations 223 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 3: of corruption concerning Hunter Biden and Joe Biden, because the 224 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 3: Department of Justice has, i think from the outset, tried 225 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 3: at every step to stop investigation into corruption from Joe Biden. 226 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 3: As you're aware, a WhatsApp text message was sent to 227 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 3: Henry Zoo, a senior Chinese communist from Hunter Biden that 228 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 3: reads as follows, I'm sitting here with my father and 229 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:46,679 Speaker 3: we would like to understand why the commitment made has 230 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 3: not been fulfilled. Tell the director that I would like 231 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:51,560 Speaker 3: to resolve this now before it gets out of hand, 232 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:54,200 Speaker 3: and now means tonight and Zee, if I get a 233 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 3: caller text from anyone involved in this other than you, Zanger, 234 00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:59,959 Speaker 3: the Chairman, I will make certain that between the man's 235 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 3: sitting next to me and every person he knows, and 236 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 3: my ability to hold a grudge, that you will regret 237 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:09,680 Speaker 3: not following my direction. I am sitting here waiting for 238 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 3: the call with my father. 239 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 5: Now. 240 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 3: Democrats and those in the media trying to defend the 241 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 3: White House repeatedly say there is no direct evidence of 242 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 3: Joe Biden's involvement in his son's corruption. Well, this is 243 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 3: a text that is direct evidence that is stating that 244 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 3: it is his father that is going to retaliate. 245 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 5: Now. 246 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 3: An IRS whistleblower, Gary Shapley, testified before the House of 247 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 3: Representatives that the natural step he wanted to follow was 248 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 3: to determine whether Joe Biden was in fact sitting next 249 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 3: to his father when this threat was made to extort 250 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 3: millions of dollars from a Chinese communist. And what the 251 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 3: IRS whistleblower testified is that when he tried to find 252 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 3: out whether Joe Biden was sitting next to Hunter that 253 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 3: the DOJ blocked getting the GPS data on Joe Biden's phone. 254 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 3: Did the FBI try to ascertain where Hunter Biden was 255 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 3: and where Joe Biden was when this text was sent? 256 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 6: Well, I think the questions you're asking go to the 257 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 6: ongoing investigation being led by a special counsel Wise, and 258 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 6: so I'm not going to be able to discuss what 259 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 6: is or is in scope. 260 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 5: Now. 261 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 3: Look, there's been testimony under oath from the IRS whistle 262 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 3: blower that you did not seek the GPS data, And 263 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 3: you're right. David Wise's special prosecutor is in charge of it. 264 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 3: And it is David Weiss and his underlings who, the 265 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 3: accord of the IRS whistle blowers have alleged that they're 266 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 3: the ones try to stop the investigation. They allow the 267 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 3: statute of limitations to run on many of the most 268 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 3: serious violations. Not only that, IRS whistleblower Shapley testified that 269 00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 3: on September, third Assistant US Attorney Less Wolf explicitly told 270 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 3: investigators that, despite having probable cause to search quote, there 271 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 3: is no way a search warrant would be approved when 272 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 3: the evidence in question was located inside of Vice President 273 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 3: Biden's guest house Wolf stated that quote the optics prevented 274 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 3: such a search. 275 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 5: Is the FBI? 276 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 3: Do they make a routine practice of allowing partisan political 277 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 3: optics to prevent investigating serious evidence of corruption. 278 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 6: My instructions to our people on this and on every 279 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 6: other investigation are the weird to follow the facts wherever 280 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 6: they lead, no matter who likes it, no matter what 281 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 6: political influence. 282 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 3: And why may be a GBS state on where Hunter 283 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 3: Biden and Joe Biden were. 284 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 5: Again center with respect, I can't this. 285 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 3: It's an ongoing and Director Ray, you and I have 286 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 3: gone round a round on this, because I understand anytime 287 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 3: you're asked about this, the answer is it's an ongoing investigation. 288 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 3: Of course, the investigation is an ongoing you're not doing 289 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 3: the work. You got whistleblowers pointing out that you're not 290 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 3: doing the work and you are hiding behind the skirts 291 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 3: of the attorney general. Look, the whistleblower also testified that 292 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 3: the Attorney General, when he came before Congress. Go to 293 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 3: the next chart, came before Congress lied under oath to 294 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 3: this committee. The Attorney General testified to this committee in 295 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 3: response to my questioning, I have pledged not to interfere 296 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 3: with the Hunter Biden investigation. 297 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 5: I have carried through on that pledge. 298 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 3: The irs whistleblowers of alleged the Attorney General lied under 299 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 3: oath a felony. Was the Attorney General telling the truth 300 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 3: when he said this? Was the Attorney General telling the 301 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 3: truth when he said, I have pledged not to interfere 302 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 3: with the Hunter Biden investigation, and I have carried through. 303 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 6: In my pledge. Again, I can't speak to the Attorney 304 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 6: General's testimony. I can only tell you what my instructions 305 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 6: have been to our people. 306 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 3: Has there been political interference in the investigation into Hunter 307 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 3: Biden and Joe Biden? 308 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 5: Not that I have experienced. 309 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 3: Were the investigators allowed to investigate whether Joe Biden was 310 00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 3: complicit in the corruption? 311 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 6: Again, there is an ongoing investigator asking you about corruption 312 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 6: from DJ. 313 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 3: Were they allowed to investigate Joe Biden? Or is the 314 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:13,440 Speaker 3: whistleblower telling the truth that DJ said Joe Biden's off limits. 315 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 5: No questions about the big guy. 316 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 6: And as to what is in scope or not in 317 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 6: scope of the ongoing investigation, I would refer you to 318 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 6: Special Council Whites. That is not me hiding behind anything Center. 319 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:26,720 Speaker 6: That is a long standing policy that has been in 320 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 6: place multiple administrations, a risk going back in years and 321 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 6: years from the responsibility to the FBI not to allow 322 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:40,159 Speaker 6: it to be a partisan tool and a partisan weapon. 323 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 3: The testimony and by the way, the FBI has done nothing, 324 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 3: and I have not and I will not. Have you 325 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 3: opened an investigation and to whether the Attorney General led 326 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 3: under oath to Congress and whether the Attorney General obstructive justice. 327 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:54,479 Speaker 5: I'm not going to go down that road here. I 328 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 5: know you're not. That's the point. 329 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:59,119 Speaker 3: Nobody thinks you've opened an investigation because you're. 330 00:17:59,000 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 5: Not willing to. 331 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 3: And the amazing thing is, directory I've known you thirty years. 332 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:07,160 Speaker 3: You're not a partisan Democrat. You're simply sitting blithely by 333 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:12,640 Speaker 3: will career partisans in your agency allow it to be weaponized. 334 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 3: And you were damaging the FBI, and you were damaging 335 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 3: the Department of Justice. 336 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 5: Let me ask you. 337 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 3: Also, the whistle blower testified that investigators wanted to execute 338 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 3: a search warrant on a storage unit used by Hunter Biden, 339 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 3: and instead they tipped off Hunter Biden's lawyer before the 340 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:34,440 Speaker 3: search warrant was carried out. Is a typical FBI practice 341 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 3: to tip off the subject of a search warrant before 342 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 3: the search warrant so they can remove any evidence that's incriminating. 343 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 6: What is typical is that when you're dealing with an 344 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 6: individual who has a protective detail, it is typical for 345 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 6: the agents to be in contact with. 346 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 3: Does the protective det details the protective detail guard the 347 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:53,920 Speaker 3: storage unit? 348 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 5: Again, I can't speak to the storage unit specifically. 349 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:58,680 Speaker 3: What I can tell you is they were Why Why 350 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:02,159 Speaker 3: would the FBI tip off the subject of a search 351 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 3: warrant about the storage unit that was going to be 352 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 3: searched beforehand? Does that not undermine the very essence of 353 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:12,720 Speaker 3: an investigation that DOJ is purporting to undertake. 354 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 6: Again, I'm not going to be able to discuss specific 355 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 6: investigative set. 356 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 5: Who will take it? 357 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:17,879 Speaker 1: You're not. 358 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 3: Nobody answers these questions. And it's why people are furious 359 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 3: with the cover up, because you don't believe the FBI 360 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,920 Speaker 3: is accountable to Congress or to the American people. Your 361 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:30,120 Speaker 3: time is up, dirtor Rey has requested a five minute recess. 362 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 5: Five minutes, I'll just let me just send it. 363 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:36,120 Speaker 6: If I might just quickly respond and then respun code 364 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 6: of the break thank you. 365 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 5: I understand why this is frustrating. I do. 366 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 6: But it is also the case that these policies that 367 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 6: I am referring to about my inability to discuss ongoing 368 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 6: investigations and certainly internal deliberations related to ongoing investigations, are 369 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:57,400 Speaker 6: policies that have not only been in place for many, 370 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:02,119 Speaker 6: many years through multiple administrations of both parties, but in 371 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 6: fact these were policies that were actually strengthened under the 372 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:10,639 Speaker 6: last administration, and that my predecessor was faulted in a 373 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 6: fairly scathing Inspector General report for not following, and that 374 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:16,639 Speaker 6: you have an obligation call it out. 375 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 5: He's engaged in this job. Thank you have an obligation 376 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 5: to call out corruption. 377 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 2: Senator. 378 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 1: I understand him saying it's an ongoing investigation, but hiding 379 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 1: behind that when you're talking about basic things that the 380 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: FBI didn't do clearly to protect the Biden family. He 381 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 1: should still be able to answer those questions, shouldn't he? 382 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 3: He should, and he's stonewalling, and there's an arrogance of 383 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 3: the director of the FBI. Look, as I mentioned in 384 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 3: my questioning, I've known Chris Ray for thirty years. Uh 385 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:49,120 Speaker 3: he clerked for the same federal judge I clerked for. 386 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:52,920 Speaker 3: He's not a liberal Democrat. That that's the amazing thing. 387 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:55,159 Speaker 3: I think Chris Ray still believes he's a Republican. I 388 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:59,119 Speaker 3: think he still believes he's a conservative. He just is unwilling. 389 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:04,080 Speaker 3: He's a company man, unwilling to take on the career 390 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,439 Speaker 3: officials at the FBI who were rabid partisans, who are 391 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 3: left wing zelots. And he also he buys into the 392 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:16,399 Speaker 3: notion that he has no responsibility to the American people, 393 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 3: no responsibility to Congress, no responsibility to be accountable or transparent. 394 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 3: So he views his obligation no sorry, ongoing investigation piss off, 395 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 3: jumping a lake. I'm not going to answer your question. Look, 396 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:32,400 Speaker 3: you've got two irs whistleblowers who come forward and alleged 397 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:36,919 Speaker 3: felonies from the Attorney General. A director of the FBI 398 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,200 Speaker 3: has an obligation to answer questions about that. I asked 399 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 3: a very simple question, did you try to ascertain the 400 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 3: GPS data about where Hunter Biden was and where Joe 401 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:53,040 Speaker 3: Biden was when Hunter Biden sent the email asking for 402 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 3: bribes trying to shake down the Chinese communists for bribes. 403 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,119 Speaker 3: The email, on its face says he's sitting next to 404 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,479 Speaker 3: his father Biden. If he's in fact sitting next to 405 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 3: his father, it directly implicates Joe Biden in trying to 406 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 3: extort millions of dollars from Chinese communists, much of which 407 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 3: ultimately went to Joe Biden himself. What the RS whistleblower 408 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:18,879 Speaker 3: said is they wanted to get that GPS data that 409 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:23,160 Speaker 3: is readily ascertainable, and the Biden DOJ blocked it. There 410 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,159 Speaker 3: is nothing to prevent Chris Ray from answering the question 411 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 3: did you try to seek that GPS data? Yes or no? 412 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 3: Did DOJ Blockett? Yes or no? He refuses to answer, 413 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,360 Speaker 3: and his shield everything. He says it's an ongoing investigation. 414 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 3: But as we've discussed, it's not ongoing. They are deliberately 415 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 3: not investigating Joe Biden. And so it is a view 416 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:53,200 Speaker 3: that there's a hubris. We are the FBI, we don't 417 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,639 Speaker 3: have to answer your questions. And I got to say 418 00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 3: it is profoundly harmful to the rule of law and 419 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 3: the integrity of the FBI to have the leadership of 420 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 3: the FBI refuse to provide even the barest minimum of 421 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 3: transparency or accountability. 422 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,679 Speaker 1: So our last question for you, and I want to 423 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 1: go back to the FBI director and really the advantage 424 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,160 Speaker 1: that the Biden family has, which it seems that everybody 425 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,680 Speaker 1: is covering for them. The House Oversight Committee put out 426 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 1: this tweet saying Hunter Biden must appear for his deposition 427 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,439 Speaker 1: on de Ever, the thirteenth Chairman, Comer and Jim Jordan 428 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: will initiate contempt of Congress proceedings if Hunter does not appear. 429 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 1: He has obviously said I will only appear before a 430 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: public hearing. That's not what they're subpoenating for. In your gut, 431 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,359 Speaker 1: will Hunter Biden appear or will he be a no show? 432 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 5: Look, I put the odds at about fifty to fifty 433 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 5: on that. I think it could go either way. 434 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 3: I think there's a chance Hunter appeers, and I think 435 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 3: he could be defiant. He could be he could be 436 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 3: hiding behind his lawyers. I also think there's a very 437 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,200 Speaker 3: real chance he just and show up. He just says, 438 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,359 Speaker 3: go pound sand if he does. If he refuses to 439 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,359 Speaker 3: show up, the House will vote have in contempt. But 440 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 3: once the House votes him in contempt, nothing will happen 441 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 3: because the Biden DOJ will not do anything to enforce 442 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,719 Speaker 3: the contempt sanctioned. Remember the House Representatives held Eric Holder 443 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,400 Speaker 3: in contempt when he was Attorney General under Barack Obama 444 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,480 Speaker 3: and nothing happened. Now why did nothing happen Because to 445 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:27,439 Speaker 3: enforce the contempt finding, DOJ has to bring it. And 446 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:29,399 Speaker 3: you know what, Eric Holder was in charge of DJ, 447 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 3: and so magically, Eric Holder said, you know, when I 448 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 3: think of things that I want to prosecute, the contempt 449 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,360 Speaker 3: finding against me is not one of them. I think 450 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,159 Speaker 3: the chances of Merrick Garland doing anything to enforce a 451 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 3: contempt finding against Hunter Biden are very close to zero. 452 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 3: And so look, there's a chance Hunter shows up. He 453 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,159 Speaker 3: did publicly say he was willing to show up. It 454 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 3: was in public, but either way, I do not expect 455 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 3: him to be forthcoming. Whether if he shows up, he's 456 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 3: not going to say much of substance. If he doesn't 457 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 3: show up, he feels he can defy the subpoena without 458 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:05,199 Speaker 3: meaningful consequence. 459 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:07,879 Speaker 1: As before, if you want to hear the rest of 460 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 1: this conversation on this topic, you can go back and 461 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 1: dow the podcast from earlier this week to hear the 462 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 1: entire thing. I want to get back to the big 463 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 1: story number three of the week. 464 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 2: You may have missed all. 465 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:24,120 Speaker 3: Right, one more Santredaly O'Connor story. So I was Slicer 466 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 3: General five and a half years. We ended up being 467 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 3: very fortunate. 468 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 5: We had some. 469 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 3: Really big constitutional law cases that just through serendipity came 470 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,240 Speaker 3: down the road and we ended up litigating and we won. 471 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 5: Most of them. 472 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 3: One of the biggest cases it was a case called 473 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 3: Van Orden versus Perry. Now Van Orden versus Perry was 474 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:49,159 Speaker 3: a challenge to the Ten Commandments monument outside of the 475 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 3: Texas State Capitol. And let me set a little bit 476 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 3: of context for it, because it's relevant to O'Connor, it's 477 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 3: relevant to Renquist in the court. So this is the 478 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:00,919 Speaker 3: mid two thousands. There had been mitigation all over the 479 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 3: country challenging the public display of Ten Commandments all over 480 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 3: the country. The history of the Texas Ten Commandments Monument 481 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 3: it was erected in nineteen sixty one, but its history 482 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 3: actually goes back to the nineteen fifties. The nineteen fifties, 483 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,359 Speaker 3: there was a Minnesota state judge named E. J. Rugemeier 484 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 3: who in the nineteen fifties was upset about the diminishing 485 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:26,640 Speaker 3: morals of the youth in America. By the way, pause 486 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 3: and thinking the nineteen fifties, he was worried about youth morals. 487 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 3: Think about today, like Holy Cow, in eighty years it 488 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,359 Speaker 3: hadn't gotten better. Yeah, And he came up with the 489 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,639 Speaker 3: idea to help the morals of the youth in America, 490 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 3: let's publicly display the Ten Commandments in public areas across 491 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 3: the nation. And he went to a public service organization, 492 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 3: the Fraternal Order of Eagles, sort of like the Rotary 493 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 3: Club or Quanas Club. He said, Hey, what do y'all 494 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 3: think of this idea? And they said, great idea, We're 495 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,720 Speaker 3: all for it all right now, Ben, this is where 496 00:26:55,720 --> 00:27:01,160 Speaker 3: the story takes a weird turn. This is exactly coterminous 497 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 3: with the release of Cecil B. De Mill's movie The 498 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:08,200 Speaker 3: Ten Commandments. No way, you know, Charlton Heston comes down 499 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,240 Speaker 3: from Mount Sinai carrying the Ten Commandments and Cecil B. 500 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 5: De Mill was a larger than life Hollywood character. 501 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:18,880 Speaker 3: And Mill gets wind of this and he and he 502 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 3: was thinking like a Hollywood producer. He's like, hey, this 503 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 3: is a great idea, but I don't want a piece 504 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 3: of paper on a frame posted on the wall. 505 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 5: If you're going to erect this. 506 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 3: I want big honkin granite Ten Commandments monuments, just like 507 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,680 Speaker 3: I'm gonna have Charlton Heston coming down the mountain with. 508 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:41,360 Speaker 3: There are dozens of what are called Eagles monuments all 509 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 3: over the country and they're all identical Texas. At six 510 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 3: foot three inches tall three foot six inches wide, it 511 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:51,399 Speaker 3: is red granite. It looks exactly like the tablets that 512 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:55,879 Speaker 3: Charlton Heston carried. And actually, I'm going to take a 513 00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:00,199 Speaker 3: brief aside and say, if you ever are argue you 514 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:02,680 Speaker 3: a case in court, since you're not a lawyer, something 515 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:04,120 Speaker 3: would have to go terribly wrong for you. 516 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:05,120 Speaker 5: To be arguing a case in court. 517 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, but if you're convicted of murder and you're defending yourself. 518 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,520 Speaker 3: The advice that I have given lawyers is never ever 519 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,439 Speaker 3: ever try to be funny. It is the province of 520 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:21,439 Speaker 3: judges to be funny, It is not the province of lawyers. Now, 521 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 3: that is excellent advice, But I will tell you I 522 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,040 Speaker 3: have twice in my career broken that advice, and I've 523 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 3: been very lucky. The gods of litigation have spared me 524 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 3: my just deserts. Both times when I was arguing the 525 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 3: defense of the Texas ten Commandments case in the Fifth 526 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 3: Circuit Court of Appeals. The process that the Eagles use 527 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,239 Speaker 3: to develop the text of the Ten Commandments. There are 528 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 3: differences across the dominations, and so what the Eagles did 529 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 3: is they brought together a committee that consisted of a pastor, 530 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 3: a priest, and a rabbi. So an oral argument, I said, 531 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,479 Speaker 3: this was drafted by a pastor, a priest, and a rabbi. 532 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,280 Speaker 3: And one of the judges of the Fifth Circuit, Judge Prato, 533 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 3: leans forward and says, Council, that sounds like the beginning 534 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,480 Speaker 3: of a joke. And I immediately said, yes, your honor, 535 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 3: but nobody walked into a bar. And miraculously, the judges 536 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 3: took pity on me and laughed. It was stupid, but 537 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,719 Speaker 3: I was grateful for their mercy. Were in front of 538 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 3: the U. S. Supreme Court on the Texas Ten Commandments monument, 539 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 3: and at the time there had been dozens of cases 540 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 3: challenging Ten Commandments monuments. Almost all of the monuments had 541 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 3: lost the weight of the case. Law was headed very 542 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 3: significantly against the public display of the Ten Commandments as 543 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 3: the case was being appealed. So we had won in 544 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,720 Speaker 3: the Fifth Circuit Court of appeals. The plain iff, a 545 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 3: guy named Thomas van Orden, who was an atheist. He 546 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 3: was a homeless man who had walked past the monument, 547 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,480 Speaker 3: was offended by it and filed a lawsuit seeking to 548 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 3: tear it down. He filed a cert petition asking the 549 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 3: Supreme Court to take the case. Now, normally, if you've 550 00:29:57,880 --> 00:29:59,960 Speaker 3: won and the other side appeals to the Supreme Court, 551 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 3: what you do is you fight against it. You say no, no, 552 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:04,960 Speaker 3: don't take this case. There is no split of authority. 553 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 3: It's not consequential. You don't need this say no, because 554 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 3: if they say no, you've won. Here was the problem. 555 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 3: There was an enormous split of authority. I thought the 556 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 3: court was going to take one of these cases very 557 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 3: very soon, and we might have won a pyrrhic victory 558 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 3: of a short term victory, but if a bad decision 559 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 3: came down to the Supreme Court, we'd lose in the 560 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 3: long term and lose our monument. So I went to 561 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 3: my boss, Greg Abbott, and I said, general, I think 562 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 3: we should do something that's called acquiescing insert, which is 563 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 3: we should agree, yes, Supreme Court, you should take this case. 564 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 3: And we drafted a brief in opposition where we said, 565 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 3: there is a split of authority. It is real, it 566 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 3: is deep, it is wide, it is significant. And what 567 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 3: we wrote in the brief was, if the Court is 568 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 3: inclined to resolve this issue, this case presents the single 569 00:30:56,080 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 3: best fact pattern to uphold a permissible display of the 570 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 3: Ten Commandments. 571 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 5: It was very risky because if the. 572 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,280 Speaker 3: Court took the case and we lost, everyone would pillory 573 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 3: both Abbot and me. You idiots asked them to take 574 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 3: this case, and then you got your butt kicked. Well, 575 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 3: it ended up we were right. They were going to 576 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 3: take a case. They took the Texas case, and they 577 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 3: took a case out of Kentucky. They took them both, 578 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 3: and they scheduled them for argument on the same day. 579 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 3: As we're preparing the case. Abbot, my boss, who was 580 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 3: attorney Generally, he told me when he started, he said, look, 581 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 3: I want to argue one Supreme Court case while I'm 582 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 3: ag and let me know which one I should do. 583 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 3: And so when this case was granted, I said, General, 584 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 3: this is the one. 585 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 5: You should do. 586 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 3: It's a discreet issue of law, it's incredibly important. He 587 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 3: spent two months preparing for the argument. I put together 588 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 3: some moot courts, I did moot court in DC with 589 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 3: a murderer's row of Supreme Court advocates. They had collectively 590 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 3: over one hundred oral arguments between them, and they just 591 00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 3: beat him senseless. I actually felt really nervous, Like when 592 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 3: you put your boss in front of a moot that 593 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 3: like pounds them senseless, You're like, uh, General, I hope 594 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:09,719 Speaker 3: that was productive. Yeah, please tell me I'm not unemployed. 595 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:11,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, please tell me I'm not get my walk 596 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:12,160 Speaker 4: in papers a day. 597 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 3: But look, if you do it right, you want the 598 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 3: mood to be harder than the actual argument. So he 599 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:17,640 Speaker 3: went through, did several moods. He was ready for it, 600 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,280 Speaker 3: and in the brief I told him, I said, okay, General, 601 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,720 Speaker 3: I've got a plan. So for about three decades, Sandarday 602 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 3: O'Connor was the deciding vote on every almost every religious 603 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 3: liberty establishment cause case in the country. And I read 604 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 3: every opinion she'd written over and over and over again. 605 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,040 Speaker 3: And I told my team as we're drafting the brief, 606 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 3: I said, I want us to swim in Sandraday O'Connor's 607 00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:48,600 Speaker 3: establishment clause jurisprudence. I want I want this to embody 608 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:52,720 Speaker 3: everything she's ever thought or said about the First Amendment, 609 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 3: And in fact I told my lawyers, I said, I 610 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 3: want the most frequent words in the brief to be 611 00:32:57,680 --> 00:32:58,880 Speaker 3: O'Connor Comma jay. 612 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 5: I want them to occur more frequently than and or THEE. 613 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 5: And one of my. 614 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 3: Lawyers said, well, Ted, is it possible to be too 615 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 3: obsequious to Justice O'Connor in this brief? I said no, 616 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 3: If we can put an oil portrait of Sanderdale O'Connor 617 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 3: in the cover of our brief, we should do so. 618 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 3: And again I was, you know, probably I was a 619 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,600 Speaker 3: cocky thirty four thirty five year old. I went to 620 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,720 Speaker 3: Abbott and I said, General, we are we're living in 621 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:33,600 Speaker 3: her psyche. This brief is exactly what Saturday O'Connor thinks. 622 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:34,840 Speaker 5: Well. 623 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 3: At the oral argument, I'm sorry to say we missed horribly. 624 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 3: She was utterly unpersuaded. She voted to strike down the 625 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 3: Texas ten Commandments. 626 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 5: Mindment. 627 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 3: Now here's where Spring Court arguments are weird. Every argument 628 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:53,560 Speaker 3: we'd aimed at Sanderdale O'Connor missed her, but bizarrely enough 629 00:33:54,160 --> 00:34:01,240 Speaker 3: struck Steve Bryer. Wow, Bill Clinton appointee relatively liberal justice. 630 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 3: And the two cases I told you there was Kentucky 631 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:08,680 Speaker 3: in Texas. Four justices voted to strike down both monuments, 632 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 3: four justices voted to uphold both monuments. Steve Bryer voted 633 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:19,799 Speaker 3: to strike down Kentucky and to uphold Texas, which, among 634 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:23,120 Speaker 3: other things, was a vindication of If we hadn't acquiesced insert, 635 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,399 Speaker 3: the only opinion would have been Kentucky, and it would 636 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,360 Speaker 3: have been devastating for Ten Commandments monuments across the country. 637 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,480 Speaker 3: There was also a really nice kind of personal vindication 638 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:36,239 Speaker 3: in this. So Chief Justice Renquist had been an original 639 00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:41,280 Speaker 3: dissenter in a case called Stone versus Graham, which struck 640 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:43,880 Speaker 3: down the display of the Ten Commandments in public schools 641 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 3: across the country, and he had dissented. He said, this 642 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,480 Speaker 3: is not the first amendment, this is not right Van 643 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 3: Orden versus Perry. Chief Justice Renquist wrote the plurality opinion 644 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:59,319 Speaker 3: for the court upholding Texas's display of the Ten Commandments, 645 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 3: the very last opinion Chief Justice Renquist ever wrote, and 646 00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 3: he passed away later that summer. And so, as his 647 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:10,560 Speaker 3: former clerk, it was really cool to have been part 648 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,799 Speaker 3: of a case where he was able to vindicate a 649 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:18,040 Speaker 3: view he had articulated two decades earlier and Sanderday O'Connor. 650 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:21,400 Speaker 3: When it came to the standards, we didn't meet her standards, 651 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,359 Speaker 3: but miraculously enough Steve Bryer liked what we had to say, 652 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:26,200 Speaker 3: and so we entered. And by the way, since then, 653 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:29,400 Speaker 3: the McCreary case out of Kentucky has proven to be 654 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,759 Speaker 3: a very unimportant precedent. It is rarely cited, and the 655 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:36,279 Speaker 3: Van Orden case changed the entire direction of case law 656 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:40,160 Speaker 3: so that Ten Commandments displays are now routinely uphill. 657 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:43,839 Speaker 1: As always, thank you for listening to Verdict with Center 658 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,359 Speaker 1: Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you don't forget to down 659 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 1: with my podcast, and you can listen to my podcast 660 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:50,680 Speaker 1: every other day you're not listening to Verdict or each 661 00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,160 Speaker 1: day when you listen to Verdict afterwards, I'd love to 662 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,280 Speaker 1: have you as a listener to again, Ben Ferguson Podcasts, 663 00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:58,800 Speaker 1: and we will see you back here on Monday morning.