Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, Welcome to another episode of Legally Brunette. I'll
Speaker 1: be your host Emily Simpson with my co host Shane Simpson,
Speaker 1: and today we just want to do first some quick updates.
Speaker 1: Let's just talk about Menendez quickly, because some things have
Speaker 1: been happening there. First of all, their resentencing hearing is
Speaker 1: still scheduled from March twentieth and twenty first, but my
Speaker 1: prediction is that it is going to get re scheduled
Speaker 1: again because on Gavin Newsom's new podcast, he announced that
Speaker 1: he's going to use his power of commuting their sentence
Speaker 1: possibly maybe I don't know, but he's taking a look
Speaker 1: into it.
Speaker 2: Why now, you know, he's just, oh, this is popular,
Speaker 2: I could do this on my podcast.
Speaker 1: So basically, he's ordering the Pearl Board to do to
Speaker 1: investigate whether the brothers would pose an unreasonable risks to
Speaker 1: the public if they were released from prison. So what
Speaker 1: they're going to do is they'll do this investigation, they'll
Speaker 1: come up with a report, and they're going to issue
Speaker 1: the report to Newsom but also to the judge and
Speaker 1: the court and the DA Hawkman. But I would assume
Speaker 1: that report is not going to come out until after
Speaker 1: March twentieth. So my guess would be that these hearings
Speaker 1: are not going to go forward on the twentieth. They're
Speaker 1: going to get re rescheduled until after this report comes out.
Speaker 1: But that's a good question because my first thought when
Speaker 1: I saw that Gavin Newsom was now getting involved in
Speaker 1: this case, where before he said he was kind of
Speaker 1: going to let the DA and the court system and
Speaker 1: the judge handle it, I thought it looked like a.
Speaker 2: Pr Oh yeah, it totally is.
Speaker 1: This is popular, I'll talk about it. I mean, let's
Speaker 1: be honest. His image wasn't looking great after the fires.
Speaker 1: A lot of people were calling for his resignation and
Speaker 1: saying he didn't handle that well. Now he has a
Speaker 1: new podcast. His first episode of his podcast, he talks
Speaker 1: about how he's going to possibly get involved in the
Speaker 1: Menindaz case. Also, I know the DA hawkman came forward
Speaker 1: and said that he what he did was he made
Speaker 1: an informal response to their habeas petition. Now, the habeas
Speaker 1: petition is a completely different avenue. It has nothing to
Speaker 1: do with the resentencing, and he said that basically he
Speaker 1: didn't think that they should get a new trial. That
Speaker 1: would be the habeat route, which I agree, but he
Speaker 1: was saying it was you know, he talks about how
Speaker 1: they're telling a continuum of lies during their original trials,
Speaker 1: and then he doesn't believe that this new evidence that
Speaker 1: came forward anyway. So basically, it looks like the habeas
Speaker 1: route is not one that's really an avenue that's going
Speaker 1: to work for them. We're really going to have to
Speaker 1: focus on the recent while right the resentencing, or on
Speaker 1: Gavin Newsom, so we'll see what happens there. All right,
Speaker 1: let's get into Normally. I don't like to do housewife
Speaker 1: stuff because I feel like there's so much going on
Speaker 1: with other legal situations. But let's talk about Karen Huger
Speaker 1: just for a little bit. So eleven months after Karen
Speaker 1: got drunk and crashed her Maserati into a street sign,
Speaker 1: the Montgomery County Circuit Court Judge Terrence McGahn sentenced Karen
Speaker 1: Huger to two years in jail, one suspended. So she
Speaker 1: is going to have to spend a year in prison.
Speaker 1: I don't know, do you think I think she'll probably
Speaker 1: do six months maybe?
Speaker 2: Or do you think I don't know how it works
Speaker 2: where she is. But this is not her first UI, correct, No,
Speaker 2: it's thing. It's important to know the history to know
Speaker 2: if the sentencing is valid or not.
Speaker 1: It is my understanding that this is her fourth Now
Speaker 1: I believe that there's been long periods of time maybe
Speaker 1: between the first second, and.
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter. But to me it doesn't.
Speaker 1: Matter, no, I know. But also she was fined twenty
Speaker 1: nine hundred dollars to go along with her her sentence.
Speaker 2: If you don't want learn your lesson because of a
Speaker 2: two year sentence, maybe this twenty nine hundred dollars fine
Speaker 2: will teach you something. Probably costs tens of thousands of
Speaker 2: dollars of court time and everything, and all sudden they're like, oh,
Speaker 2: pay two thousand dollars.
Speaker 1: I mean the street sign she hit probably costs twenty
Speaker 1: nine hundred dollars. So Karen was found guilty of DUI
Speaker 1: negligent driving, failure to control speed to avoid a collision,
Speaker 1: and failure to know to fight her change of address.
Speaker 1: She won't be allowed to drive for a year after
Speaker 1: she's released, and if she violates probation, Hugre will be
Speaker 1: sent back to jail to serve the year of the
Speaker 1: suspended time. This is Karen Huger's fourth d U.
Speaker 2: I should take people's license away. Sorry, I mean once
Speaker 2: maybe after that, it's like, take the license away. You're
Speaker 2: no good, you're a minister society.
Speaker 1: You're as sorry you are.
Speaker 2: She is she's gonna kill someone? Well she, I mean
Speaker 2: why why is now? Is she gonna be like, oh,
Speaker 2: I should start being responsible?
Speaker 1: Well, she's lucky she didn't kill someone after four UI,
Speaker 1: so you got really lucky that someone was not injured.
Speaker 2: Or it's ridiculous. Remember my daughter, her fifth grade teacher,
Speaker 2: mister Clark, and when she got him, she was thrilled
Speaker 2: killed by a drunk driver mid school year.
Speaker 1: I remember that.
Speaker 2: And it was not the drunk driver's first killing as
Speaker 2: a result of drunk driving.
Speaker 1: Oh you mean not only first offense, but they had
Speaker 1: that someone?
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, wow, not okay, anyway.
Speaker 1: All right, let's move on. This is just an interesting
Speaker 1: story that's popped up in the media. I'm sure everyone's been.
Speaker 2: Thinking about it.
Speaker 1: And obsessing over it. But it is the death of
Speaker 1: Gene Hackman. And I will tell you I find this
Speaker 1: really interesting. Luke, my son, our son. I forgot our son,
Speaker 1: our son wanted to watch he had watched this before
Speaker 1: was Shane, but he wanted to watch the Poseidoniden.
Speaker 2: Adventure is an excellent movie, but not like the recent.
Speaker 1: He wanted to watch the nineteen seventy two versions.
Speaker 2: The only good one the one with Kurt Russell, though, okay,
Speaker 2: nobody So.
Speaker 1: Luke and I watched this the day before, and while
Speaker 1: we were watching it, I remember thinking to myself, is
Speaker 1: Gene Hackman s so?
Speaker 2: You asked me, and I told you. I said, well,
Speaker 2: he's ninety four. Last year a photo popped up of
Speaker 2: him being ninety four or he did not look healthy
Speaker 2: at all. I said, I don't know he's gonna make
Speaker 2: it to ninety five. And then I didn't know you
Speaker 2: could put a curse on people. Apparently you're a.
Speaker 1: Witch, which thank you for telling our children that. Because
Speaker 1: I brought up Gene Hackman two days. I was inquiring
Speaker 1: about his health and whether he was still alive, and
Speaker 1: then the story broke forty eight hours later that Gene
Speaker 1: Hackman and his wife and a dog were found dead.
Speaker 2: I love Gene Hackman, you do, Yeah, I do. I
Speaker 2: think he's a great actor. That's partly why Pside Adventure
Speaker 2: is really good. I know people aren't here for a
Speaker 2: movie Becauseiden Venture has a great story.
Speaker 1: Okay. Gene Hackman and his wife, along with their dog,
Speaker 1: were found dead this week and circumstances officials have called
Speaker 1: suspicious enough to warrant a thorough investigation. So Hackman and
Speaker 1: his wife's bodies were discovered by maintenance workers at their
Speaker 1: home just before two pm. And that was the last Wednesday,
Speaker 1: February twenty six. Now, I will tell you I was
Speaker 1: looking into it again this morning, you see if there
Speaker 1: was new information in this case, and I read that
Speaker 1: according to his pacemaker, the last known activity on his
Speaker 1: pacemaker was February seventeenth.
Speaker 2: Wow, So they are assuming just basically what date was
Speaker 2: he found Well, he.
Speaker 1: Was found dead February twenty.
Speaker 2: Six, so that would put him at nine days.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the last activity that was recorded on his pacemaker
Speaker 1: was February seventeenth, so they're assuming that that was most
Speaker 1: likely when they died. So a caller told nine to
Speaker 1: one one that they could see two unconscious people through
Speaker 1: a window but could not enter the home. According to
Speaker 1: the call the cause of death of Hackman, who was
Speaker 1: ninety five and his wife, Betsy, was sixty three, are
Speaker 1: not known at this time, but I did read that
Speaker 1: they have ruled out carbon monoxide or any type of natural.
Speaker 2: Gas hold out.
Speaker 1: That's what I read on autopsy. I believe so because
Speaker 1: the daughters, so Gene Hackman has daughters, had said in
Speaker 1: an interview that maybe it was carbon monoxide, and then
Speaker 1: I read that had been ruled out.
Speaker 2: But they said that as a just a reasonable assumption
Speaker 2: based on them being found dead on the floor.
Speaker 1: And I guess how the investigation right. So the couple's
Speaker 1: bodies were found in separate rooms and their secluded home.
Speaker 1: This is in Santa Fe. So Jeene Hackman was found
Speaker 1: in at.
Speaker 2: Went if we died in our sleep, yeah, that's how.
Speaker 2: Shane was on the couch with the TV on and
Speaker 2: Emily had the phone on her face, laying in bed,
Speaker 2: dummy worms.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the dogs were everywhere. So they were found
Speaker 1: in separate rooms. Gene Hackman was found in a mudroom
Speaker 1: and they are assuming that he possibly fell because he
Speaker 1: had his cane and like some sunglasses lying next to him,
Speaker 1: so it looks like maybe he took a fall were
Speaker 1: next to them. But what is strange is his wife
Speaker 1: was found in a bathroom with scattered pills. Now, also
Speaker 1: there were three dogs in the residence and one dog
Speaker 1: was found in a closet inside a crate.
Speaker 2: I read that a lot of reports said, all, there's
Speaker 2: three dogs.
Speaker 1: There's three dogs.
Speaker 2: One was found dead inside a crate, so likely lacking
Speaker 2: food and water. That would be my thought seven days
Speaker 2: based on what we're reading. And then there were two
Speaker 2: other dogs found in the residents that were alive and
Speaker 2: not in a crate or a closet, right.
Speaker 1: But I did read somewhere that one was in the bathroom,
Speaker 1: but I don't know if he was locked in the
Speaker 1: bathroom or they just found him wandering and he ended up.
Speaker 2: It would make more sense now that one's in a crate,
Speaker 2: passed away because unfortunately neglected with food and water, and
Speaker 2: the others maybe were able to kind of fin for themselves,
Speaker 2: and you know, right, they.
Speaker 1: Maybe they dug through the trash or eat something in.
Speaker 2: A right, or maybe there's plenty of dog food out,
Speaker 2: you know right.
Speaker 1: So, Betsy, this is why her body showed obvious signs
Speaker 1: of death, body decomposition, bloating in her face, and mummification
Speaker 1: in both hands and feet. Hackman's body was then found
Speaker 1: on the ground near the kitchen. This is in the
Speaker 1: mudroom in a similar condition, So the sheriff later said
Speaker 1: there was no indication that either of them had suffered
Speaker 1: injuries from a fall. So what is your thoughts? There's
Speaker 1: so many scenarios that go through my mind. First of all,
Speaker 1: did he fall and when he hit the ground he
Speaker 1: died because he's ninety five, so maybe the fall alone
Speaker 1: was enough to kill him. Then his wife found him dead.
Speaker 1: Then she freaked out because she can't live without him,
Speaker 1: so she took pills.
Speaker 2: I thought it was odd when the daughters said that
Speaker 2: they had not spoken to him for a few months.
Speaker 2: They didn't say it like it was a bad thing.
Speaker 2: They said it like just as a matter of fact, like, oh,
Speaker 2: we haven't spoken to her dad in a few I'm like,
Speaker 2: yeah'm spilling your dad in a few months, especially when
Speaker 2: your dad's gene Hackney. Okay, but I have a few
Speaker 2: months my dad and a few months Okay, but yeah,
Speaker 2: but that's a different scenario.
Speaker 1: But how do you know it's a different scenario.
Speaker 2: I don't know. Well, I don't know because I'll tell
Speaker 2: you because the daughters didn't say well, certainly I didn't
Speaker 2: read everything, but assuming there was I just find not
Speaker 2: talking to your parents after a few months when they're ninety.
Speaker 2: That old is a little odd. Now, if there was
Speaker 2: distance and they just had no close relationship, then okay,
Speaker 2: then that makes sense.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well here's my thoughts as someone who is not
Speaker 1: very close with my dad and has a stepmom. My
Speaker 1: sister and I have always had a lack of communication
Speaker 1: with my dad because my stepmom controls. We call her
Speaker 1: the gatekeeper. And when I was reading this about Gene Hackman,
Speaker 1: I kind of felt like it was the same scenario
Speaker 1: because it said Hackman did not even have a phone
Speaker 1: or an email address, and his friends had to go
Speaker 1: through his wife to get in touch with him. Now
Speaker 1: I understand that because that's what I have to do
Speaker 1: to talk to my dad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think your dad doesn't want doesn't care
Speaker 2: for technology.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's just that I think he doesn't
Speaker 1: care for technology because he's.
Speaker 2: Told okay, well, you know, being ninety five, maybe he
Speaker 2: just never really I heard from read what I read,
Speaker 2: which doesn't mean it's accurate that she kept him out
Speaker 2: of the spotlight, she kept him away from fans this
Speaker 2: and that. Now, maybe he wanted that initially, she took
Speaker 2: it too far. I don't know, but if she is
Speaker 2: this gatekeeper, then him and dying and he wasn't a
Speaker 2: small guy. If he's if he fell and got hurt
Speaker 2: and she couldn't care for him, and maybe she tried
Speaker 2: to care for him and set herself couldn't and it
Speaker 2: just went south from there. I don't know. But there
Speaker 2: was like a story that like when he was he
Speaker 2: was in the hospital a while ago, she would dress
Speaker 2: up as a nurse and go in and out so
Speaker 2: people wouldn't think she was the wife. She was like hiding.
Speaker 1: Wait, but why wouldn't she want people to know that
Speaker 1: she was the wife? I don't know.
Speaker 2: It was like she was hiding from paparazzi or public.
Speaker 1: Oh so she dressed up as a nurse in order
Speaker 1: to visit him.
Speaker 2: Saying what I read was accurate.
Speaker 1: Yes, Well I don't know. So anyway, what are your
Speaker 1: thoughts on this? Here's my question is she's in her sixties.
Speaker 1: She's thirty something year younger than him, So the chances
Speaker 1: of her dying from a natural caused the same that
Speaker 1: he died doesn't make sense. So that's where the suspicion
Speaker 1: comes in. Did she take pills because she couldn't live
Speaker 1: without him.
Speaker 2: Is there some outside the time will certainly tell?
Speaker 1: Okay, but we're going to keep up with the story
Speaker 1: because Shane, I did not know Shane had such a
Speaker 1: deep love.
Speaker 2: So like The Heist is a really good movie, the
Speaker 2: French Connection, he plays Popeye Doyle, really good car chasing there,
Speaker 2: he's you know, he's great. I think his Lex Luthor
Speaker 2: role was was terrible.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad that you you do give him credit
Speaker 1: words due? Okay, So let's move on to the stream
Speaker 1: measures with you.
Speaker 2: You what's his name? You great?
Speaker 1: Okay, good, thank you?
Speaker 2: It was really good.
Speaker 1: We are now legally Brunette and we do movie reviews
Speaker 1: at the same time. Let's move on to the murder
Speaker 1: of Gabby Patito. Now, I when this case came out,
Speaker 1: did you follow it at all?
Speaker 2: Absolutely? You did, just just like daily what was on
Speaker 2: the news.
Speaker 1: Okay, I did not. I know, I didn't. I remember
Speaker 1: briefly hearing things about it, but I really didn't know
Speaker 1: a lot of details about it. I didn't know what happened.
Speaker 1: I didn't even know. I didn't know a lot about it.
Speaker 1: But I did watch the Netflix special, which is on
Speaker 1: Netflix right now.
Speaker 2: Now I know everything.
Speaker 1: There's no, no, But I did watch the Netflix series
Speaker 1: and I was so invested in it that I then
Speaker 1: went outside and I googled more things, I did more research,
Speaker 1: I read more things. So anyway, guys, I'm excited. We're
Speaker 1: going to talk about Gabby Patito today. So if you
Speaker 1: haven't seen the Netflix special, I would say to watch it.
Speaker 2: It's three episodes.
Speaker 1: It's three episodes. They also, which is interesting, they took
Speaker 1: her voice and then made an AI recreation of her
Speaker 1: voice to read her journal entries, so that's her speaking,
Speaker 1: but not her organic they pull out right, So let's
Speaker 1: just do a little background about the facts of this
Speaker 1: case so we can all just be on the same page,
Speaker 1: and then we're going to go through like a little time.
Speaker 2: So there's Gabby, who's the girl, and then the boyfriend
Speaker 2: fiance is Brian Laundry.
Speaker 1: Brian So Gabrielle Venora Patito entered the world March nineteenth
Speaker 1: of nineteen ninety nine. Tragically, on August twenty seventh, twenty
Speaker 1: twenty one, her life was cut short at the young
Speaker 1: age of twenty two. She was on a cross country
Speaker 1: road trip with our fiance, Brian Laundry, and they were
Speaker 1: visiting national Parks when he strangled her to death. This
Speaker 1: devastating event highlights the horrific reality that some individuals can
Speaker 1: become perpetrators of violence against those that they really should
Speaker 1: cherish in safeguard. And I think one of the main
Speaker 1: issues in white people are so engrossed in this is
Speaker 1: because when you watch the special, or you read the facts,
Speaker 1: or you read about what has happened, I think there
Speaker 1: are many times where you can see an avenue where
Speaker 1: Gabby could possibly escape or someone could help, and it
Speaker 1: just doesn't turn out that way. And I think that's
Speaker 1: what's so frustrating, So.
Speaker 2: That I think that that and not a conclusive like
Speaker 2: timeline of what happened and how he killed her, and
Speaker 2: then coupled with lots of video and audio during this
Speaker 2: whole time right for us to see.
Speaker 1: Let's start. So in July second and twenty twenty one,
Speaker 1: Gabby Patito and her friend and say Brian embark on
Speaker 1: a form of trip traveling across the United States and
Speaker 1: their camper van. Now the van was purchased by Gabby
Speaker 1: and the van is in Gabby's name, which I think
Speaker 1: is important. Gabby wanted to be a vlogger and she
Speaker 1: wanted to make a YouTube channel. Gabby's friends and families
Speaker 1: say that this was something she wanted to make a
Speaker 1: career out of, but Brian did not seem to support it.
Speaker 1: I mean the interviews on the in the special, they
Speaker 1: do talk about how he thought it was dumb, he
Speaker 1: thought it was silly. He wasn't really behind it. And
Speaker 1: I did find it interesting, or that's just because I
Speaker 1: do love tacos. But Gabby worked full time at Taco Bell.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, in order to earn enough money to buy
Speaker 1: this van.
Speaker 2: Well, it was to fix up the van.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well they had to should buy the van. They
Speaker 1: had to fix up the van, and I have for
Speaker 1: transit some spending money for this trip.
Speaker 2: So well, and they wanted to convert it because it
Speaker 2: was just a little delivery van, so they had to
Speaker 2: convert it a little bit right to commentate what they
Speaker 2: wanted and probably get video equipment right. And her little
Speaker 2: sign off to people was have a taco tastic day.
Speaker 1: Yes, have a taco tastic day. All right. So they're
Speaker 1: out and about, they're going to national parks. She's trying
Speaker 1: to document it. I can tell she's frustrated because he
Speaker 1: doesn't Brian the fiance doesn't seem to be helping her
Speaker 1: with any of the technology or editing part that seems
Speaker 1: to be all on her shoulders. Then on August twelfth,
Speaker 1: this is a very.
Speaker 2: Well it's evidenced by when you watch the documentary and
Speaker 2: it shows unedited videos, so them trying to capture videos,
Speaker 2: video content, and you could tell it's him just kind
Speaker 2: of shrugging it off or not really engaging, and she's
Speaker 2: trying to figure it out, like she's not a natural.
Speaker 2: She was kind of trying to egg him on to
Speaker 2: help her, and he was kind of brushing it off.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you could tell.
Speaker 2: So you wonder if he just didn't want to be
Speaker 2: on video.
Speaker 1: Well, that was something that I think someone said in
Speaker 1: an interview, one of her friends, possibly I think it
Speaker 1: was Rose, said maybe he was reluctant or has to
Speaker 1: be on this video because he knows what he's like.
Speaker 1: I can't always.
Speaker 2: Control he comes up. Might actually I don't the camera.
Speaker 1: To be rolling exactly. So August twelfth, at twenty twenty
Speaker 1: one is a very important date in the Gabby Patito case.
Speaker 1: This is the day when they are going through Moab
Speaker 1: and Shane and I have been to Moab just interesting
Speaker 1: fun fact there. But bodycam footage from police officer Eric
Speaker 1: Pratt shows Brian and Gabby's van being pulled over on
Speaker 1: the side of the road in Moab City, Utah. Earlier
Speaker 1: that day, officers had received a call from someone reporting
Speaker 1: that the caller had witnessed a male slapping a female
Speaker 1: and a white van fitting the same description. So through
Speaker 1: the bodycam footage, we see Gabby hysterically crying to officers.
Speaker 1: She talks about how she has OCD, she has really
Speaker 1: bad anxiety. When the officer asked her what's wrong, Gabby states,
Speaker 1: We've just been fighting this morning, some personal issues. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's just some days I have really
Speaker 1: bad OCD and I was just cleaning it, straightening up.
Speaker 1: I was apologizing to him, saying that I'm so mean
Speaker 1: because sometimes I have OCD and I get frustrated. However,
Speaker 1: this is the part that I think kind of boggles
Speaker 1: my mind. They do remove Gabby from the van, they
Speaker 1: put her in the police car, and she visibly has
Speaker 1: her eye has been struck.
Speaker 2: I had injury. I saw the photo that she took
Speaker 2: of herself. That injury in that video, not that I
Speaker 2: could see clearly there was no injury. But I couldn't
Speaker 2: see whether there was or was an injury, So I
Speaker 2: don't know if they knew offhand, like maybe it didn't
Speaker 2: show remember when my mom got in an accident.
Speaker 1: No, because he referenced it. He says, you have something
Speaker 1: on your eye, and it looks like you have a
Speaker 1: fresh mark on your So this is the photo from
Speaker 1: her camera roll of her eye, and this is the
Speaker 1: day that she was pulled over. She has the same
Speaker 1: thing on.
Speaker 2: It looks like she was slapped around.
Speaker 1: It looks like she was hit and slapped in the face.
Speaker 1: On her She's got a mark on her forehead, a
Speaker 1: mark on her cheek, a mark on her cross, her nose,
Speaker 1: the bridge of her nose. Her eye is red, it's
Speaker 1: got a little bit of blood and scratching. He also
Speaker 1: makes a reference to her having a new fresh mark
Speaker 1: on her arm. Now I do know that Brian has
Speaker 1: marks on his face. He's got some scratches. I found
Speaker 1: him Brian, And maybe this is just because I already
Speaker 1: have a preconceived notion of who this man is because
Speaker 1: I know what happens. But when I'm watching him on
Speaker 1: the body cam footage, I find him to be nervous.
Speaker 1: I find him to make comments like he's like, well,
Speaker 1: I don't know what Gabby's going to tell you. To me,
Speaker 1: that's very telling that I feel like he's trying to
Speaker 1: hide the fact that he is the aggressor in this situation.
Speaker 1: And I think she has been conditioned to take the blame.
Speaker 2: She's or to diffuse it.
Speaker 1: Right, And it worries me that what happened in this
Speaker 1: scenario is they separate them, they put her in a car,
Speaker 1: and then she's hysterical. She says she has OCD, she
Speaker 1: says she has anxiety. She's definitely been hit in the face.
Speaker 2: So the way I was.
Speaker 1: Understanding the car position was I felt as if one said, hey,
Speaker 1: we don't really have discretion when it comes to domestic abuse.
Speaker 1: In this type of situation, someone needs to be arrested.
Speaker 1: But then I do know that they pulled the female
Speaker 1: officer in, so I felt as if they thought that
Speaker 1: they should arrest someone, whether it was Brian or Gabby,
Speaker 1: because they do make clear that they think she's the aggressor.
Speaker 1: But your opinion is.
Speaker 2: They just well, I think they had an officer come in,
Speaker 2: and I remember on video one of the officers was
Speaker 2: saying something the effect of like like, hey, if you
Speaker 2: want to if you think we're in a situation this
Speaker 2: is a scenario where someone needs to be arrested, I'll
Speaker 2: support you. If you think this is a situation where
Speaker 2: it doesn't meet the checklist of having to arrest someone,
Speaker 2: I'll support that too. So it was like, whatever you
Speaker 2: whichever direction you want to go, I'll support it. And
Speaker 2: then clearly they went the direction of not arresting.
Speaker 1: Okay, what do you think about not making an arrest?
Speaker 1: Because I have read several articles I have read you know,
Speaker 1: we'll talk about it in a little bit. But Gabby Petito,
Speaker 1: those parents have gone on to sue the Moab City
Speaker 1: Police Department for the way they handled the situation on
Speaker 1: this day. Do you think that if a rest was made,
Speaker 1: whether it was Gabby or whether it was Brian, that
Speaker 1: it could have had a different outcome. There could have
Speaker 1: been a they could have and.
Speaker 2: We'll never know. But they kept getting back together. They
Speaker 2: kept getting back together because remember what happened is so
Speaker 2: they ended up deciding to separate the two for like
Speaker 2: a cooling off period, and they got him like a
Speaker 2: hotel or motel and escorted him there and they gave
Speaker 2: her the camper, probably because it was in her name,
Speaker 2: and gave it to her and to give her the
Speaker 2: mobility to drive home or go wherever she wanted. And
Speaker 2: they advised them heavily do not contact each other tonight,
Speaker 2: let it cool off and start again tomorrow. They didn't
Speaker 2: do that. She immediately was texting him, so he would
Speaker 2: have gone out of jail the next day or whatever
Speaker 2: it was, and they would have gone right back together.
Speaker 1: Don't think making an arrest would have made much of
Speaker 1: a difference.
Speaker 2: I don't know, but that, but that doesn't mean they
Speaker 2: I mean, if they should have arrested, they should have
Speaker 2: arrested I think.
Speaker 1: Maybe possibly arresting Gabby because they did claim that she
Speaker 1: was the aggressor in this situation based upon her saying yeah.
Speaker 2: I I well what right? Yeah?
Speaker 1: But I feel like if she were arrested and she
Speaker 1: was actually detained and then she had to make a
Speaker 1: phone call, even though I do know she called her mom,
Speaker 1: but if she had to call her mom and call
Speaker 1: her parents and say I was arrested, I need your help,
Speaker 1: I have to hire an attorney, you need to come here,
Speaker 1: that then maybe her parents.
Speaker 2: Would have so it would have been elevated to a
Speaker 2: point where maybe they would would have stepped in. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's where I think that possibly there could
Speaker 1: have been a different outcome, is if Gabby was that
Speaker 1: was arrested in this situation. Also, I was confused, and
Speaker 1: I don't know if anybody else thought this when they
Speaker 1: were watching it, but it did bother me that she
Speaker 1: was hysterical in the car. She said she had OCDS,
Speaker 1: she said she was dealing with severe anxiety. But then
Speaker 1: they put her in a vehicle to drive away and
Speaker 1: stay alone in her vehicle. I was like, so, the
Speaker 1: girl who's hysterical, who says she has OCD and suffers
Speaker 1: from anxiety, you just handed her the keys to her
Speaker 1: vehicle and said now you're alone in a park and
Speaker 1: you're gonna stay alone in your vehicle.
Speaker 2: Maybe they could have escorted her.
Speaker 1: I just I didn't like that part. Also, let me
Speaker 1: just say one more thing when it comes to the parents,
Speaker 1: and I don't know this might be an unpopular opinion.
Speaker 1: I had a hard time with the mom. Now I
Speaker 1: understand that she lost her daughter and she is a
Speaker 1: grieving mother, So I'm not trying to be negative towards
Speaker 1: the mom, But as a parent, if my twenty two
Speaker 1: year old daughter called me from the side of a
Speaker 1: road and said she had gotten in a fight with
Speaker 1: her boyfriend and they're on a road trip alone together
Speaker 1: and police had pulled them over and she was hysterical,
Speaker 1: I'm telling you I would be in a car or
Speaker 1: on a plane immediately.
Speaker 2: No, you wouldn't.
Speaker 1: Yes, I would.
Speaker 2: I'd be telling me too. Okay, but so on, why
Speaker 2: did I get out there right now? That's probably true,
Speaker 2: we would.
Speaker 1: Have, But I'm telling you there is no way that
Speaker 1: I would have hung up the phone and then been like, well,
Speaker 1: I hope.
Speaker 2: You proceed along fingers crossed.
Speaker 1: I hope you guys get along the next day. I
Speaker 1: just I don't know in what world me as well.
Speaker 2: We also don't know what conversation yet. Maybe Gabby really
Speaker 2: talked her mom into like it's fine, Maybe she calmed down.
Speaker 2: When we don't know, Let me ask one.
Speaker 1: More question, because when Shane and I were watching this together,
Speaker 1: when it first showed Gabby getting the van ready and
Speaker 1: getting in the van to go with Brian on this
Speaker 1: cross country trip across the United States, he asked, Shane
Speaker 1: said to me, how old is she? And I said,
Speaker 1: she's twenty two, And he said, would you let your
Speaker 1: daughter go on a cross country trip in a van
Speaker 1: with her boyfriend? And I said, well, I don't know.
Speaker 1: That's an interesting question because one, she's twenty two, so
Speaker 1: she's technically an adult. But also I don't think I
Speaker 1: would be supportive of it.
Speaker 2: Not not someone definitely not with a killer, but definitely
Speaker 2: not with him where it didn't seem like her parents
Speaker 2: had a close relationship with him, where they knew him
Speaker 2: and they were familiar with him and they had a
Speaker 2: history together. So it was kind of like, oh, my
Speaker 2: new boyfriend and I were going to go travel to
Speaker 2: the continental US together in this camper van. That's where
Speaker 2: it's like what And I don't remember if there was
Speaker 2: any history between him and the parents, but it just
Speaker 2: seemed if they had been together for years family friend
Speaker 2: engaged and there was a lot of comfort there in
Speaker 2: knowing who he was, and they was a good part
Speaker 2: at her and then they wanted to go on a
Speaker 2: road trip. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Okay, So here's the difference is what I'm picking up
Speaker 1: from you, Because Shane does have a twenty three year
Speaker 1: old daughter and she was recently married, so you're saying,
Speaker 1: if Shelby went to you almost twenty two and you
Speaker 1: didn't really know Evan, that's her her husband's husband, you
Speaker 1: would advise her not to go.
Speaker 2: I would be worried about her going. I'd certainly ask
Speaker 2: a lot of questions and probably discourage her from going.
Speaker 2: But if it was today that she was going to
Speaker 2: do that, my questions would be more about like is
Speaker 2: it a smart thing financially? Are you going to be sustainable?
Speaker 2: Are you going to fall behind in whatever your plant?
Speaker 2: Like those things, not like her safety with her husband
Speaker 2: because we've known him for years now. He's been nothing
Speaker 2: but good to her. They haven't had any domestic issue,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Right, So it's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: of course, now it's just a question of whether it's
Speaker 2: a road trip's a good idea, not who you're going with.
Speaker 1: Okay, So, as I stated a little bit earlier, so
Speaker 1: the potitos end up filing a lawsuit against the City
Speaker 1: of Moab for the way they handled that. So they
Speaker 1: didn't investigate a report. And I thought this was interesting
Speaker 1: because they did feature an interview with Officer Pratt, who
Speaker 1: was one of the officers that was there and says,
Speaker 1: I'm desperately eft over that she got killed. I really am,
Speaker 1: he said, I would have done anything to stop it
Speaker 1: if I would have known that that was coming.
Speaker 2: If if anyone knew, they would have stopped.
Speaker 1: If I would have known Laundry that Brian was going
Speaker 1: to murder her, I would have taken vacation to follow
Speaker 1: them because I care about people to the point where
Speaker 1: he was going to murder her, and I would have
Speaker 1: intervened and citizens arrested him. In Wyoming, I would have
Speaker 1: taken my own time. I would have missed my family
Speaker 1: to go do that. Captain Brandon Radcliffe did not lay
Speaker 1: blame on Officer Pratt or fellow responding officer Daniel Robbins, saying, quote,
Speaker 1: they both believed at the time they were making the
Speaker 1: right decision based on the totality of the circumstances that
Speaker 1: were presented. That's basically your reasonable person standard in that situation,
Speaker 1: and you know that's what we were talking about, not
Speaker 1: knowing what was to come in the future. Would different
Speaker 1: officers have handled it differently? Did they do the right thing?
Speaker 1: I don't know, But what happened in this lawsuit against
Speaker 1: the City of Moab was basically the court dismissed it,
Speaker 1: saying that it is really just an issue of police immunity.
Speaker 1: You can't sue police officers, and what they did was
Speaker 1: say but you can take it to a higher court
Speaker 1: if they want to address the constitutionality of this immunity
Speaker 1: that they have. So the Potitos have appealed the case.
Speaker 1: I believe what I can find so far is basically
Speaker 1: that it's in line to possibly be picked up by
Speaker 1: the Utah Supreme Court. So we'll see what happens with that.
Speaker 1: That could be a long journey there.
Speaker 2: But as when you watched it, do you think the
Speaker 2: police officers made the wrong choice, not not knowing the outcome,
Speaker 2: just just watching everything as if you were there, do
Speaker 2: you think police officers should have done something further to
Speaker 2: separate them?
Speaker 1: I do, because to me, she looked like a frail, scared,
Speaker 1: timid young girl that weighs one hundred pounds, and I
Speaker 1: thought he was creepy, even not knowing, even if you
Speaker 1: take out the circumstances of knowing what happens in the future,
Speaker 1: then I felt like she looked like she was in danger.
Speaker 2: Why did the police? Why do you think the police
Speaker 2: did not do anything?
Speaker 1: Because I think she kept saying that he was her person.
Speaker 1: She didn't want to be separated. They were a team.
Speaker 1: She kept calling them a team, and I think these
Speaker 1: cops thought, let's just separate them and then they'll be fine.
Speaker 2: The next day, I wondered when I was watching it,
Speaker 2: if because they weren't residents of Moab, and I wondered
Speaker 2: if it was just like these people are coming through,
Speaker 2: because it's something like five thousand people live in Moab,
Speaker 2: but there's like multi like three to four million visitors
Speaker 2: a year during peak seasons, So you'll wonder if they're
Speaker 2: kind of like, let's just separate them and get them
Speaker 2: to move along. Do we really want to, like, you know,
Speaker 2: book someone from from out of our city and get
Speaker 2: involved that way and keep them around, or are they
Speaker 2: just traveling through and just just let them cool off
Speaker 2: and travel through. I think them not being a residence
Speaker 2: was taken into consideration whether they really wanted to be
Speaker 2: invested in either of them being arrested.
Speaker 1: I'm sure that's probably true too, But.
Speaker 2: Does that make it right wrong? I don't know. All right,
Speaker 2: So this, I like how I make a pretty deep
Speaker 2: profound I theorize something and you're like yeah. Yeah, Well,
Speaker 2: because you.
Speaker 1: Made your profound statement and now the listeners can agree
Speaker 1: with you or not. It's not up for me, it's
Speaker 1: up to them. So I just want to go on
Speaker 1: with a little bit more of that. However, mister Radcliffe
Speaker 1: suggested that the traffic stop should have ended with Potito's
Speaker 1: arrests because she admitted to hitting laundry. I still kind
Speaker 1: of disagree with that, but that's okay. Based on the
Speaker 1: information provided in this specific incident, Brian would be the victim,
Speaker 1: with Gabby being the suspect. I do not find that
Speaker 1: they enforce the law. They responded to a confirmed mestic
Speaker 1: violence incident, and they had evidence showing an assault had
Speaker 1: taken place. The statements of all this involved, along with
Speaker 1: the evidence presented, provided probable cause for an arrest. The
Speaker 1: report recommended that both officers be put on probation and
Speaker 1: that the entire department receive additional domestic violence investigation training
Speaker 1: to ensure that officers understand state laws and statutes. We'll
Speaker 1: see what happens. It's the next timeline event, so we're
Speaker 1: still on the timeline. So that was the that was
Speaker 1: August twelfth when they were pulled over. Now, August nineteenth,
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, Gabby and Bryan share their first and
Speaker 1: only YouTube video highlighting their road trip across.
Speaker 2: The United States. One video.
Speaker 1: One out of all of that, Okay, it.
Speaker 2: Definitely was not supportive. And what did he want? Then?
Speaker 2: What do you think We're just going to go on
Speaker 2: a road trip, Like she says, let's go on a
Speaker 2: road trip and document it and try to build some
Speaker 2: type of channel and following. And he's just like okay,
Speaker 2: and then he has no interest in doing that party
Speaker 2: this spants to go on the camping part. Like, what
Speaker 2: was his plan?
Speaker 1: I think his plan. I think he was just obsessed
Speaker 1: with Gabby and his plan was just to be with Gaby,
Speaker 1: isolated with her to I think he was fine isolating her.
Speaker 1: I think he you know, earlier and the.
Speaker 2: Darted day money did support themselves.
Speaker 1: I don't think they needed a lot of money. I
Speaker 1: think they ate in the vase and I think they lived.
Speaker 1: They took showers whatever those public shower places the police
Speaker 1: were talking about where he kept telling her over and
Speaker 1: over she could get a hot shower for four.
Speaker 2: He kept saying that. I was like, Okay, good for
Speaker 2: your wife.
Speaker 1: I know that the police officer kept.
Speaker 2: Telling you beat your wife she shower. Was like, you
Speaker 2: can't say that. I don't know what he was saying.
Speaker 2: He just kept saying, when my wife gets frazzled, she
Speaker 2: takes a hot shower.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm sure his wife loves that. They keep showing
Speaker 1: that video over. He talks about how his wife suffers because.
Speaker 2: It kind of looked like he sends his wife to
Speaker 2: those truck stops for a Showery, you need to cool off, Yeah,
Speaker 2: go to here. It's four bucks. Go ahead, a shower.
Speaker 1: Okay. So the video there, their first and only video
Speaker 1: that they posted, received five hundred views when it was
Speaker 1: initially posted, but it has now received over ten million.
Speaker 1: And I don't even know. Maybe it's even more than
Speaker 1: ten million. Now, I'm not sure how recent that is.
Speaker 1: All right, that was August nineteenth. Now we move on
Speaker 1: to August twenty sixth of twenty twenty one. Gabby shares
Speaker 1: her final Instagram post. It was wishing everyone a happy
Speaker 1: Halloween as she holds a crochet pumpkin. The post is
Speaker 1: a series of selfies of Gabby looking happy and care free.
Speaker 1: Now we move on to August twenty seventh of twenty
Speaker 1: twenty one.
Speaker 2: This is the.
Speaker 1: Assumed date of Gabby's murder. However, police cannot be certain
Speaker 1: because her body was not found right away. This is
Speaker 1: also the last footage of Gabby that has ever been captured.
Speaker 1: There is CCTV video of her and Brian in a
Speaker 1: whole food store.
Speaker 2: You can see the video of.
Speaker 1: Them walking down the aisle shopping together, and that's the
Speaker 1: last known time that anyone saw her.
Speaker 2: Alive August twelve. They get pulled over by the MOAB
Speaker 2: troopers August nineteenth, so one week later they post their
Speaker 2: first and only video, and then another week later, August
Speaker 2: twenty six, she heard her final Instagram post, and then
Speaker 2: and then the following day is the assumed date of murder.
Speaker 1: Okay, Now, also, I know you didn't get this far,
Speaker 1: but Gabby called an ex boyfriend.
Speaker 2: Right, Oh yeah, I saw, I did see, I did watch. Okay, Well,
Speaker 2: the first text she sent him was I'm sure I'm
Speaker 2: the last person you want to hear from, or I'm
Speaker 2: sure you're the I'm the last person you think you'd
Speaker 2: hear from. Something that matter of fact, meaning they have
Speaker 2: not communicated and it wasn't normal for her to reach
Speaker 2: out to him. She reached out to him, and he
Speaker 2: felt there was a reason, like it was a cry
Speaker 2: for help.
Speaker 1: So when Gabby was texting with this ex boyfriend, she
Speaker 1: did make it clear. I believe that she wanted to
Speaker 1: break up with Brian, and so I think she was
Speaker 1: reaching out to the ex boyfriend for some kind of
Speaker 1: help or guidance or you know, sometimes when you're just
Speaker 1: like I'm done, but I'm stuck something.
Speaker 2: Should want her mom to judge her, say, see, he
Speaker 2: was not good for you, or maybe her mom wasn't
Speaker 2: really her parents weren't so quick to come out and
Speaker 2: save her the way she wanted it. So she called
Speaker 2: her former boyfriend and was like, I need help. I
Speaker 2: don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 1: But so she calls him and he doesn't answer. He
Speaker 1: says in an interview that he was at work so
Speaker 1: he couldn't answer, and then that was the last time
Speaker 1: he heard from her. Because we assume she was murdered
Speaker 1: shortly after.
Speaker 2: That now, and she left no message right so she
Speaker 2: could have a lot could have been told had that
Speaker 2: phone call been picked up.
Speaker 1: So August twenty seventh was the last time Gabby was
Speaker 1: seen on any footage, so we know that she was
Speaker 1: alive on August twenty seventh. On August twenty ninth, twenty
Speaker 1: twenty one, Brian called his parents on this day and said, quote,
Speaker 1: Gabby is gone. He later asked his father to arrange
Speaker 1: an attorney for him. Following this, the father.
Speaker 2: Coust, well, how do we know these phone calls exist?
Speaker 2: Because well, they.
Speaker 1: End up getting the phone records and they can see
Speaker 1: that he called his parents in the habit.
Speaker 2: They can't see the content, So how do we know
Speaker 2: the content?
Speaker 1: Because I believe that the father came forward later and
Speaker 1: said that that was what was.
Speaker 2: I just wanted to make sure it was accurate, okay.
Speaker 1: So following this, Christopher Laundry, who is the dad, claimed
Speaker 1: that quote he had no idea what to think about
Speaker 1: what had happened to Gabby. He just asked me to
Speaker 1: get a lawyer, and I couldn't get any more information
Speaker 1: from him. End quote. Speaking about the day Brian called them, ROBERTA. Laundry,
Speaker 1: who is the mother, told the court his voice was
Speaker 1: very upset and I didn't know why. I didn't want
Speaker 1: to push him, so we just said goodbye. When I
Speaker 1: got off the phone, I told Chris, that's the dad,
Speaker 1: you know. Brian sounded upset, maybe you should give him
Speaker 1: a call. So then that's when it ended up being
Speaker 1: a longer call. I think that's when he asked for
Speaker 1: the attorney and said Gabby is gone. Now we get
Speaker 1: to August thirtieth, a final text message is sent from
Speaker 1: Gabby's phone. This is likely Brian posing as Gabby. The
Speaker 1: text was sent to Gabby's mom, Nicole. However, Nicole felt
Speaker 1: something was really strange with the wording of the message
Speaker 1: because it referred to Gabby's grandfather by his first name, Stan,
Speaker 1: which Gabby would never normally call. She would say Grandpa
Speaker 1: or something, but she said Stan in the text message.
Speaker 1: So you can assume on August thirtieth that he's texting
Speaker 1: from his phone to or using her phone to reply.
Speaker 1: He also that same day zeld himself from Gabby's account
Speaker 1: seven hundred dollars, and then you know, on zellan notes,
Speaker 1: he puts something to the effect of I never want
Speaker 1: to see you again, basically if from her to him,
Speaker 1: as if from her to him, she was buying out
Speaker 1: of reship, like that's it. So not only did Brian
Speaker 1: zell himself money from Gabby's account, but also on his
Speaker 1: road trip home driving her van. He also used her
Speaker 1: debit card to get gas, So there's a little bit
Speaker 1: of a trail that's starting to come forward as far
Speaker 1: as Zell is using her phone, he's using her debit card.
Speaker 1: And I assume so you think that he most likely
Speaker 1: ended his life when he did, because these things are starting.
Speaker 2: I'm guessing if I don't remember, but I think, yeah,
Speaker 2: things started a surface and the next thing you know,
Speaker 2: he disappears and he dies, probably because he realized, how
Speaker 2: am I going to explain that I used your credit card?
Speaker 2: How am I going to explain this? How am I
Speaker 2: going to explain that? And I used your phone? Trying
Speaker 2: to cover up her death?
Speaker 1: Right But September one, twenty twenty one, Brian arrives back
Speaker 1: at the home of his parents, Chris and Roberta. And
Speaker 1: this is in Florida. So he shows up September first,
Speaker 1: in Florida. He shows up alone, though he was in
Speaker 1: his and Gabby's van. While he's in Florida, Brian and
Speaker 1: his parents move between the family home and a local
Speaker 1: area for a camping trip.
Speaker 2: Now when he shows up, that's odd. I remember that. Now,
Speaker 2: that is odd. They went camping with him?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2: Well, what's odd is if you're almost like, it's not
Speaker 2: their first rodeo, Oh, let's go camping.
Speaker 1: Well, what's odd is your son is on a road
Speaker 1: trip with his girlfriend and then he shows up back
Speaker 1: in Florida driving her van that's registered in her name,
Speaker 1: and she's nowhere to be found, and then you're just
Speaker 1: going to go camping and continue to live life like
Speaker 1: nothing happened and nobody would know how.
Speaker 2: Before we have our initial consultation with my new criminal attorney,
Speaker 2: let's go camping. They went out where there was no where,
Speaker 2: They're off the grid, away from everyone, and then they
Speaker 2: could talk in private.
Speaker 1: That's yeah, I didn't think about that, but probably so
Speaker 1: on September fifth. Now, remember he arrives back in Florida
Speaker 1: on September first, alone September fifth, His sister, Cassie says
Speaker 1: this date is the last time she saw her brother
Speaker 1: or was able to contact him. She also claims her
Speaker 1: parents stopped responding to her as the investigation is playing out,
Speaker 1: so he's disappeared, the sister doesn't know where he is,
Speaker 1: and the parents are also not responding to the sister.
Speaker 1: Now September eleventh of twenty twenty one, Gabby's mother, Nicole
Speaker 1: reports Gabby missing to police. The police toe Brian and
Speaker 1: Gabby shared van away from the laundry family Strive Way,
Speaker 1: and when confronted by police Roberta and Chris these are
Speaker 1: his parents deny having any knowledge of Gabby's whereabouts. Now
Speaker 1: this was so did you see this?
Speaker 2: This was so.
Speaker 1: Frustrating for me. Gabby's mom calls and makes a missing
Speaker 1: person report about Gabby, saying they haven't heard from her
Speaker 1: since it would have been the twenty seventh, right, because
Speaker 1: that was the last day anybody heard from her or
Speaker 1: saw her on video. Here we are September eleventh, so
Speaker 1: you're talking two weeks. At this point, the police show
Speaker 1: up at Brian's house at his parents' house. Gabby is
Speaker 1: not there. The van is there, Yeah, the van is
Speaker 1: registered and heard name. The sister said that Brian said
Speaker 1: that he flew back from their trip, which is a
Speaker 1: blatant lie because there's the van.
Speaker 2: He clearly drew it back, unless he's yeah, unless he's
Speaker 2: arguing that she drove it back. He flew back. But
Speaker 2: then be like, oh, yeah, we'll show us your flight.
Speaker 1: But then when the police go to the door and
Speaker 1: request to speak to Brian. The dad comes out, refuses
Speaker 1: to speak, refuses to answer quoes, rssians, and hands them
Speaker 1: the business card of their lawyer.
Speaker 2: If my kid murdered his girlfriend, I'd be driving them
Speaker 2: down to the police station.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know I am.
Speaker 2: That doesn't mean I would take reasonable precautions. Okay, you
Speaker 2: know you have your rights high lowre. But it'd be like, sorry, dude,
Speaker 2: we're not going camping. We're going to go to the police.
Speaker 1: You're not going to help bury the body. You're not
Speaker 1: going to hinder the investigation. And you're not going to
Speaker 1: allow this mother who has no idea where her daughter
Speaker 1: is continue to guess and not know where her daughter is.
Speaker 2: No, apparently you would, well you'd be like, oh, lukie,
Speaker 2: come to bed with mama.
Speaker 1: I mean, I have boys, and that.
Speaker 2: Doesn't mean i'd be okay with it, but that's what
Speaker 2: you got to do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I'm not.
Speaker 2: I mean it would be tough. I had I would
Speaker 2: be I would feel awful, but it would be like, sorry.
Speaker 1: Dude, all right, this is the question now. So then
Speaker 1: by September seventeen, twenty twenty one, Brian's family reports him missing.
Speaker 1: They haven't seen him in three days and suspect that
Speaker 1: he's in the Carlton Reserve in Sara Sarasota County in Florida.
Speaker 1: They claim they did not alert police about it sooner,
Speaker 1: as they thought Brian was going on a camping trip
Speaker 1: to get away from all of the chaos. Lots of
Speaker 1: questions here. First of all, the night that the police
Speaker 1: come in, they're asking about Gabby. Did you think that
Speaker 1: they had probable cause to arrest Brian at that time?
Speaker 1: Here's my thoughts. She's reported missing, the mother hasn't heard
Speaker 1: from her, The van is parked in the driveway, it's
Speaker 1: registered in her name. The dad won't talk, Brian won't
Speaker 1: come to the door. They hand him a card, a
Speaker 1: business card of an attorney and say contact my attorney.
Speaker 1: Is that enough to arrest him? And should they have
Speaker 1: arrested him at that time?
Speaker 2: They should have because the car is in her name,
Speaker 2: so that it's like my daughter's missing for two weeks.
Speaker 2: She was with that guy. He doesn't know where she
Speaker 2: is or he's not talking, and he has her car.
Speaker 1: But I've also read and thought about that they don't
Speaker 1: want to arrest too early in an investigation.
Speaker 2: Here's what I'm thinking, I'm thinking the Potito parents did not,
Speaker 2: did not. We're not aggressive enough in saying our daughter
Speaker 2: is missing, something's wrong, just as they weren't very protective
Speaker 2: of her when she wanted to just go across the
Speaker 2: country with some new guys.
Speaker 1: So you're saying you're not You're not saying they're bad.
Speaker 1: Parents are not blaming their parents, but you're saying they
Speaker 1: could have been more.
Speaker 2: I would have been like, she's been gone for two
Speaker 2: weeks if I knew, if assuming they knew all these facts,
Speaker 2: she's been gone for two weeks. I have not heard
Speaker 2: from her. She called me crying once when the police
Speaker 2: pulled her over. There's been some scuffling between the two
Speaker 2: of them, and she's he came back without her and
Speaker 2: he has her car, and I am fearful. I needed,
Speaker 2: I needed. We need to look into this.
Speaker 1: What would you have done differently? Because she called the
Speaker 1: police and she she reported her missing in Florida, to
Speaker 1: where his parents live. So I'm saying, if you don't
Speaker 1: know where they are on their road trip, because you
Speaker 1: haven't heard from her for two weeks, where are you
Speaker 1: physically going to go?
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know but you would have had.
Speaker 1: Life three sixty on her. I would have done Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: we have life three sixty on Annabel. I would unless
Speaker 1: she but he took her phone. How do you can't like?
Speaker 2: I don't know, but I would not have been sleeping
Speaker 2: normal and going back to work the next day and
Speaker 2: all this. I would have been trying to figure it out.
Speaker 1: Well, here is my problem with the way the police
Speaker 1: handled it. When Brian ends up back on Florida, we
Speaker 1: don't know where the body is, we don't know where
Speaker 1: Gabby is. Brian was the key to finding Gabby Petito,
Speaker 1: and they did not have a trail on him. They
Speaker 1: were not watching him. He disappeared from the police and
Speaker 1: the police had no idea where he was. We are
Speaker 1: lucky that someone else ended up finding the body, But
Speaker 1: what if someone didn't find the body outside of Brian.
Speaker 1: The police lost him. They don't know where he is.
Speaker 1: Do you understand what I'm saying? Yeah, I think I'm
Speaker 1: saying that Brian is the key to finding out what
Speaker 1: happened to Gabby, where her body is, how she was right.
Speaker 2: He knows everything. He's the only one that.
Speaker 1: Knows, the only one that knows, and the police lost him.
Speaker 1: They didn't know where he was, and it took his
Speaker 1: parents to go to this camping site, which, by the way,
Speaker 1: is also suspicious that police were apparently looking for him
Speaker 1: for days and days and days in this campsite and
Speaker 1: then his parents show up and they literally like walk
Speaker 1: to where he is. They're like, oh, there he is
Speaker 1: with his backpack and you know, his camping things. They
Speaker 1: found him like that, Yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Don't know that family's dirty.
Speaker 1: Let's back up a little bit. Let's go through this timeline.
Speaker 1: September seventeenth is when Brian's family reports him missing. They
Speaker 1: haven't seen him in three days. They suspect that he's camping.
Speaker 1: September nineteenth is when Gabby's body is found near Grand
Speaker 1: Titan National Park in Wyoming. After speaking with her family
Speaker 1: and having her identified, the news was made public, So
Speaker 1: her body is found on September nineteenth. Now, remember he
Speaker 1: went missing on September seventeenth. This was my point from earlier.
Speaker 1: If someone did not come across her body in that park,
Speaker 1: this guy eluded police, disappeared into a campsite, and nobody
Speaker 1: can find him. He is the only one who knows
Speaker 1: where she is buried, knows how she died knows anything.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying that police lost him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they lost their their hot lead. They did, and
Speaker 2: that a person of interest exactly. So September twenty first,
Speaker 2: the coroner rules her cause of death as homicide. So
Speaker 2: now it's turned into a murder investigation. They should have
Speaker 2: put like a tracker on his car. That's what they did,
Speaker 2: like Scott Peterson that, oh you're very suspicious, Scott Peterson, right,
Speaker 2: and they put a tracker on his car.
Speaker 1: I'm telling you. If they didn't want to take him
Speaker 1: into custody because they didn't feel like they had enough
Speaker 1: evidence for a murder investigation, I get that. I understand
Speaker 1: that you want to make sure when you arrest him
Speaker 1: that you have all your docks in a row because
Speaker 1: you don't want him to get out. However, they don't
Speaker 1: know where he is. They're not tracking him, they don't
Speaker 1: have someone following him. They're not watching the house. This
Speaker 1: guy shows up in Florida without his girlfriend and he disappears.
Speaker 1: Her body was in a national park. It could have
Speaker 1: eluded people. Police campers her family forever. On October twentieth,
Speaker 1: after over a month of searching, Brian's belongings and his
Speaker 1: body are found by his parents and the authorities. And
Speaker 1: the authorities should actually just be in parentheses because the
Speaker 1: authorities have been looking for him for over a month.
Speaker 1: They can't find him. But then his parents just like
Speaker 1: walk up and find him within an hour. Then on
Speaker 1: November twenty third, at twenty twenty one, following an autopsy,
Speaker 1: police confirmed that Brian died by suicide with a gunshot
Speaker 1: who in his head. Now here's some other important details
Speaker 1: about this story. Police, this is very interesting. You'll like this.
Speaker 1: Police found a letter that Brian's mom, Roberta, had written
Speaker 1: to him. There is no way to know when the
Speaker 1: letter was actually written. It was not dated. But the
Speaker 1: envelope reads Brian Christopher Laundry and then it says burn after.
Speaker 2: Reading and this is found on him.
Speaker 1: I believe so. The letter reads, I just want you
Speaker 1: to remember I will always love you, and I know
Speaker 1: you will always love me.
Speaker 2: You are my boy.
Speaker 1: Nothing can make me stop loving you. Nothing will or
Speaker 1: could ever divide us. No matter what we do, or
Speaker 1: where we go, or what we say, we will always
Speaker 1: love each other. If you're in jail, I will bake
Speaker 1: a cake with a file in it. If you need
Speaker 1: to dispose of a body, I will show up with
Speaker 1: the shovel and garbage bags. If you fly to the moon,
Speaker 1: I will be watching the skies for your re entry.
Speaker 1: If you say you hate my guts, I will get
Speaker 1: new guts. Roberta, that's the mom, has said the letter
Speaker 1: was written before her son's trip Withtito, and one of
Speaker 1: her attorneys released a statement saying it was quote in
Speaker 1: no way related to Gabby end quote, although Potito's family
Speaker 1: has challenged those assertions. Now the Potitos end up suing
Speaker 1: Bryan Laundry's family, It did not go to trial, which
Speaker 1: I think is a good thing. They ended up settling,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure it's because both sides did not want
Speaker 1: to litigate the details of what happened to Gabby, and
Speaker 1: so it ended up settling out of court for I
Speaker 1: don't know if it was an undisclosed I think it
Speaker 1: was three million. Yeah, So what are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2: It's a shady family.
Speaker 1: That is a shady family.
Speaker 2: Would not I would not recommend dating anyone in that family.
Speaker 2: I have a question his parents found his body.
Speaker 1: His parents found his body.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they knew where he was. They were in communication
Speaker 2: with them. Did they search his phones after they found
Speaker 2: his body or anything like that that we know of?
Speaker 1: You know what I always thought, because I did think
Speaker 1: of that myself. I thought maybe they found that the
Speaker 1: police found Brian's phone when they found him dead, because
Speaker 1: they did find a notebook with Brian that happened that
Speaker 1: had like his handwritten journal entries in it. So I
Speaker 1: just want to read a few passages from his notebook
Speaker 1: that was found with his belongings after he committed suicide.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry to everyone this will affect. Gabby was the
Speaker 1: love of my life and I know adored by many.
Speaker 1: I'm so very sorry to her family because I love them.
Speaker 1: I consider her younger siblings my best of friends. I
Speaker 1: am sorry to my family. This is a shock to
Speaker 1: them as well as a terrible grief. Please do not
Speaker 1: make this harder for them. This occurred as an unexpected tragedy.
Speaker 1: Rushing back to our car, trying to cross the streams
Speaker 1: before it got too dark to see, too cold, I
Speaker 1: hear a splash and a scream. I could barely see.
Speaker 1: I couldn't find her for a moment. Shouted her name.
Speaker 1: I found her, breathing heavily. I carried her as far
Speaker 1: as I could from the stream toward the car, stumbling,
Speaker 1: exhausted in shock, knew I couldn't safely carry her. I
Speaker 1: started a fire and spooned her as close to the heat.
Speaker 1: She was so thin, had already been freezing too long.
Speaker 1: While carrying her, she continually made sounds of pain. Laying
Speaker 1: next to her, she said little, gasping between violent shakes,
Speaker 1: gasping in pain, begging for an end to her pain.
Speaker 1: She would fall asleep, and I would shake her awake,
Speaker 1: fearing she shouldn't close her eyes if she had a concussion.
Speaker 1: I don't know the extent of Gabby's injuries, only that
Speaker 1: she was in extreme pain. I ended her life. I
Speaker 1: thought it was merciful, that is what she wanted. But
Speaker 1: I see now all the mistakes I made. I panicked,
Speaker 1: I was in shock. I knew I couldn't go on
Speaker 1: without her. I rushed home to spend any time I
Speaker 1: had left with my family. I wanted to drive north
Speaker 1: and let James or TJ kill me. I assumed James
Speaker 1: or TJ is dad and stepdad, but I wouldn't want
Speaker 1: them to spend time in jail over my mistake, even
Speaker 1: though I'm sure they would have liked to. I'm ending
Speaker 1: my life not because of a fear of punishment, but
Speaker 1: rather because I can't stand to live another day without her.
Speaker 1: I've lost our whole future together, every moment we could
Speaker 1: have shared. I'm sorry for everyone's loss. Please do not
Speaker 1: make life harder for my family. They lost a son
Speaker 1: and a daughter, the most wonderful girl in the world, Gabby.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. So that was found in his notebook next
Speaker 1: to his body when he committed suicide, the part that
Speaker 1: bothers me about him committing suicide again. I'm going back
Speaker 1: to the police, and I believe they have probable cause
Speaker 1: that night to either arrest him, detain him, question him,
Speaker 1: track him, follow him. Is I want to see this
Speaker 1: guy brought to justice. Suicide is too easy of a
Speaker 1: way out for him. I want him to go to court.
Speaker 1: I want there to be even though I feel badly
Speaker 1: that the parents would have to go through a trial.
Speaker 1: But don't you want to know what happened? Don't you
Speaker 1: want to go through his phone? Don't you want to
Speaker 1: question him and depose him and put him on the stand.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's going to rot in hell.
Speaker 1: Well, so what happens after this Gabby.
Speaker 2: Petti no pain before, like after all your surgeries and stuff,
Speaker 2: and you're miserable, and I never once thought, oh, I'll
Speaker 2: strangle you and put you out of your misery. No,
Speaker 2: thank you for that.
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. I mean I did have a hip replacement,
Speaker 1: and I will tell you the pain that I was
Speaker 1: in before my hip replacement was the most severe pain
Speaker 1: I have ever been in. And I'm thankful to you
Speaker 1: for not ending.
Speaker 2: No, I will not strangle you as a result.
Speaker 1: I as I moaned and gasped and pain at night,
Speaker 1: because I did do that for a long time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, are you buying anything he wrote there?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: This, I mean you know, he strangled her. She gasped
Speaker 2: for air, she begged it to stop at all those
Speaker 2: things he said. But it's because he was killing her.
Speaker 1: I think it had to do with jealousy. I think
Speaker 1: he probably saw her phone, saw that she had texted
Speaker 1: the ex boyfriend, saw that she called the ex boyfriend.
Speaker 1: I think he went into a jealous rage because he
Speaker 1: knew that she was probably trying to get away from him.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, is he out? Yeah, because she might have
Speaker 2: been saying I'm going to break up with you. And
Speaker 2: things like that, and then he sees the phone. It's
Speaker 2: the ex boyfriend.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So Gabby Patito's family appealed to Utah judge's decision
Speaker 1: dismissing their wrongful death lawsuit against the MOA Police Department.
Speaker 1: We talked about this earlier. The family is seeking to
Speaker 1: change a state law that limits wrongful death claims against
Speaker 1: the government agencies. The family hopes to change the law
Speaker 1: to prevent future victims of domestic violence from going without justice.
Speaker 1: So where it's at now is they are appealing to
Speaker 1: the Utah Supreme Court. So we'll see if the Utah
Speaker 1: Supreme Court picks up the case. It's a constitutional.
Speaker 2: Issue with really all that can happen the best the
Speaker 2: outcome is the police department learns something, they do an
Speaker 2: internal review, and they do something to make it better
Speaker 2: for nixt time. That's that's all you can do, right
Speaker 2: And then.
Speaker 1: In twenty twenty two, the Petito and Schmidt family Potito
Speaker 1: is his family, Schmidt is the mom, settled a wrongful
Speaker 1: death lawsuit against Brian's parents for three million. And then
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four, the Potito family settled another case,
Speaker 1: a ledging that the laundries had inflicted emotional distress, and
Speaker 1: I think that's the undisclosed amount. I don't know how
Speaker 1: much that was, but they settled that. So that's where
Speaker 1: we're at. Also, just if there's any good that came
Speaker 1: from the Potito case, there is the Gabby Potito Bill,
Speaker 1: which was passed in Florida in twenty twenty four. It's
Speaker 1: a new bill passed by the House and Senate and
Speaker 1: it was advocated for by Joseph Patito, Gabby Patito's father,
Speaker 1: and it creates a set of twelve mandatory questions law
Speaker 1: enforcement we'll have to ask a potential victim when responding
Speaker 1: to a domestic violence call. It's referred to as the
Speaker 1: Gabby Patito Act. And I'll just go through something. We
Speaker 1: don't have to go through all twelve, but it's too
Speaker 1: I think it's to streamline the process better, especially when
Speaker 1: you think back to the Moab situation where they pulled
Speaker 1: her over and they put her in another car and
Speaker 1: they were just kind of asking her who's the aggressor
Speaker 1: or was it you did you hit him? It wasn't.
Speaker 1: There wasn't a structured system of trying to find find
Speaker 1: out what happened. So the mandatory set of twelve questions include,
Speaker 1: let's just go through some of them. Did the aggressor
Speaker 1: ever use a weapon against you or threaten you? Did
Speaker 1: the aggressor ever threaten to kill you or your children? Yeah?
Speaker 2: But then what happens when the scared person in this
Speaker 2: relationship is saying no, no, they didn't, No, no they didn't,
Speaker 2: everything's fine.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know, you know, I don't know. I
Speaker 1: don't know.
Speaker 2: The kind of asked her questions and she just made
Speaker 2: it like he was the love of her life and
Speaker 2: they're a team and I'm sorry I acted out and
Speaker 2: I hit him and that's why he was driving like that.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, maybe the fact that it's twelve questions,
Speaker 1: which is a lot of questions, maybe that the point
Speaker 1: is to build a rapport. Yeah, and if you're asking
Speaker 1: twelve mandatory questions, that it's a long enough conversation that
Speaker 1: maybe that person calms down.
Speaker 2: And maybe the police are forced to kind of, you know,
Speaker 2: basically these twelve questions to dig deeper.
Speaker 1: And kind of not just valuate maybe the body language
Speaker 1: the answers and make a determination. I think now is
Speaker 1: it going to make a huge difference? I don't have
Speaker 1: any idea, But at least the point is is that
Speaker 1: based upon what happened to Gabby, people legislatures are saying, hey,
Speaker 1: there needs to be a better system in place so
Speaker 1: that we can protect people better. So at least that's
Speaker 1: a positive start. So anyway, all right, thank you guys
Speaker 1: so much for listening. We appreciate it. And again, let
Speaker 1: us know if there's any cases out there that you
Speaker 1: would love for us to cover, to talk about, and
Speaker 1: we always appreciate feedback, so thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 1: Thank you,