Speaker 1: Welcome to Movie Crush, a production of I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: Hey everybody, and welcome to Movie Crush Friday. Paul addition
Speaker 1: back in the Hissy. How you doing, Paul, I'm doing
Speaker 1: good man. How about yourself? Well, you know, behind the scenes,
Speaker 1: you know what just happened. We had some trouble with
Speaker 1: my recording setup. And when that happens, because I'm a caveman,
Speaker 1: I want to pick this ship up and throw it
Speaker 1: into a trash can. Yeah, Chuck, Chuck, Chuck hulks out
Speaker 1: a little bit. But we've brought him back to Bruce
Speaker 1: Banner status. So god, I think this should be a
Speaker 1: nice relaxed film discussion of bad Lands. Yeah. Man. So
Speaker 1: here's a little bit of short history for this movie
Speaker 1: is I was supposed to do this movie with uh,
Speaker 1: you know the band The Hold Steady, Craig Finn, the
Speaker 1: lead singer. Yeah, he was supposed to do this, like geez, probably,
Speaker 1: I mean it was pretty early on actually in uh
Speaker 1: I think probably like eight months into the show or something.
Speaker 1: And I'm not blaming him whoever it was handling his
Speaker 1: business though, really screwed it up like he was supposed to.
Speaker 1: He was performing at um the venue the City Winery
Speaker 1: right next to the building, and I was like, all
Speaker 1: he's gotta do is come right over the building. I
Speaker 1: got the time set aside, I got an engineer coming in.
Speaker 1: It was on a weekend, it was on a Saturday
Speaker 1: evening before his performance, and then literally like, no show.
Speaker 1: I'm up at the office and like thirty minutes after
Speaker 1: he's supposed to be there, I get an email from
Speaker 1: his handler that was like, so where over here at
Speaker 1: City Winery? Are you coming over and bring an equipment
Speaker 1: or what? And I'm like, dude, it's like we had
Speaker 1: this all set, Like how did you screw up every
Speaker 1: part of this? So I got really salty. Um long
Speaker 1: way of saying, I have now watched this movie twice
Speaker 1: for this show, and then another oh probably five times
Speaker 1: on my own for pleasure. Well, first of all, it's
Speaker 1: nice to know that, um, he's a fan of the movie. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was his favorite movie. Can speculate what he thinks, Well,
Speaker 1: I know, Craig Finn, but I will do my best
Speaker 1: to bring some of that hold steady energy to uh
Speaker 1: what I think of the film. But um, you're better.
Speaker 1: Oh thanks man. Uh, Well, that's awesome to know you've
Speaker 1: seen it that many times. I've probably seen it, uh,
Speaker 1: at least probably four or five times. I came to
Speaker 1: this movie in college in one of my film history
Speaker 1: classes actually, when we were studying the nineties seventies, kind
Speaker 1: of the American New Wave. Uh, and this was the
Speaker 1: film our teacher decided to show us as kind of
Speaker 1: representative of that. And I think at the time, I
Speaker 1: don't think I really knew Malick at all. I don't
Speaker 1: think i'd seen any of his stuff or even had
Speaker 1: heard of him. Since then, I mean, he's, without a
Speaker 1: doubt one of my favorite filmmakers, and this is one
Speaker 1: of my favorite films of him by him. Uh And
Speaker 1: so I'm really excited to talk about it. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: me too. It's Terrence Maleck's first film, written, produced, directed.
Speaker 1: He made it when he was in his late twenties,
Speaker 1: which is crazy to think about. UM, a movie that
Speaker 1: was fraught with problems with financing. I know he chipped
Speaker 1: in some of a lot of his own money. UM,
Speaker 1: a lot of problems on the shoot itself. I think
Speaker 1: I read that, you know, there were some injuries during
Speaker 1: certain scenes, there were people that walked off the crew,
Speaker 1: and what I read was the last literally the last
Speaker 1: two weeks of filming, it was him and his wife
Speaker 1: and maybe Jack Fisk and like a couple of other people,
Speaker 1: and that was kind of Yeah, by the end, it
Speaker 1: was I think I read the same thing, like four
Speaker 1: or five people and uh, it was a non union crew.
Speaker 1: And what I read was that the movie's total budget
Speaker 1: was roughly three hundred thousand dollars. As you said, some
Speaker 1: of that was malis own money, so even for nineteen
Speaker 1: seventies standards, that's that's very much a low budget independent film.
Speaker 1: And um, yeah, about by the time they got to
Speaker 1: the end, I saw a thing where they were filming unblimped,
Speaker 1: which means, um, I'm sure you know this, but basically
Speaker 1: with film cameras, they generate noise when you're shooting, and
Speaker 1: so you have to basically put this blimp around the
Speaker 1: camera to sort of quiet dampen the sound. And because
Speaker 1: they just didn't have time and we're on the run
Speaker 1: to just grab those last shots, they shot a lot
Speaker 1: of it unblimped, meaning all of the sound they got
Speaker 1: was unusable, so they had to record I think something
Speaker 1: like sevent the dialogue had to be re recorded in
Speaker 1: post for a with a d R. Yeah, that's what
Speaker 1: I read. Yeah, Um, And I feel like you can
Speaker 1: kind of tell, like I was watching The Blu Ray
Speaker 1: and like sometimes it's like kind of easy to tell
Speaker 1: when stuff has clearly been eight yard, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And um, I mean still even if you notice it,
Speaker 1: it's not something that sticks out as taking you out
Speaker 1: of the film by any means. Yeah. And I mentioned
Speaker 1: Jack fisk He was the production designer, and I'm sure
Speaker 1: he had a very small crew and did a lot
Speaker 1: of it himself, but you know, he very famously met
Speaker 1: Sissy Spasic on this film. Uh at young just sort
Speaker 1: of perfect and beautiful young Sissy Spasic when she was
Speaker 1: in her early twenties playing I think, like a fifteen
Speaker 1: year old, And she and Jack Fiske fell in love
Speaker 1: and got married, and they're one of the great enduring,
Speaker 1: um Hollywood couples, if you even want to call them that,
Speaker 1: they're really not a Hollywood couple but movie couples. And uh,
Speaker 1: he's become one of my favorite production and set designers too,
Speaker 1: works a lot, has worked a lot with Malick over
Speaker 1: the years, and just does a great job in this
Speaker 1: movie um made in seventy three, but it really looks
Speaker 1: like it was made in the ninety fifties. It's so
Speaker 1: authentic looking. Yeah, and and it's funny you mentioned Jack
Speaker 1: Fisk be one of your favorites, because it's like, how
Speaker 1: many set deck art directors do people know by name
Speaker 1: in the movies? Not Jack Fisk is one of the few.
Speaker 1: Um he's he works with David Lynch a lot, among
Speaker 1: other great directors. But um yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker 1: And it's interesting though to think about because the movie
Speaker 1: takes place in the fifties and at the time they
Speaker 1: were shooting, that was only fifteen years prior. So that's
Speaker 1: like us me making a movie about two thousand five
Speaker 1: right now. I mean, it's crazy to think about. But
Speaker 1: I have no idea. I don't know, man, Baggy, your
Speaker 1: baggy cargo shorts. Cargo. I still have those cargo shorts.
Speaker 1: But uh, but you're right about the look of it.
Speaker 1: And it's interesting because Malick, you know, Malick is famous
Speaker 1: for not doing interviews or press or anything, but he
Speaker 1: actually did do a handful of interviews when this movie
Speaker 1: came out for a few magazines, and there's some they're
Speaker 1: really fascinating to read because he's very open about out
Speaker 1: the process of shooting the film and his intentions with it,
Speaker 1: and he even talks about, um, how when it came
Speaker 1: to like the period piece aspect of it, he didn't
Speaker 1: want to overwhelm that. He just wanted to be sort
Speaker 1: of subtle because he said, nostalgia can kind of overwhelm
Speaker 1: the picture. Yeah, and it's interesting you mentioned how you
Speaker 1: still feel like it's the nineteen fifties because it's not.
Speaker 1: It doesn't hit you over the head with it, but
Speaker 1: it's just there. It just it just feels so natural. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not like a movie I love, but Back to
Speaker 1: the Future, you know, which is they just they smash
Speaker 1: you over the head with the nostalgia bat like, over
Speaker 1: and over and over as soon as they get to
Speaker 1: the nineteen fifties, which was kind of the point of
Speaker 1: that movie. But this movie just feels very lived in,
Speaker 1: very real. I think they shot it mostly in Colorado,
Speaker 1: but um, it certainly has the look of, you know,
Speaker 1: the flat lands of the Dakotas and Nebraska and the
Speaker 1: Great Planes and you know, Colorado's I don't know if
Speaker 1: you've ever been there. It's one of the states that's
Speaker 1: very varied. You think Colorado is just nothing but mountains
Speaker 1: and the Rockies. But there are all these big, huge,
Speaker 1: wide open plains areas of Colorado too. Yeah. Well, I'm
Speaker 1: I think you know this. I'm originally from Western Kansas,
Speaker 1: small town in western Kansas, and yeah, so, uh, you're right.
Speaker 1: The first time, I haven't been to Colorado that much,
Speaker 1: despite me being from a state next to it. But
Speaker 1: the first time I went to Colorado, I was so
Speaker 1: surprised that when we crossed from Kansas into Colorado, how
Speaker 1: it was still flat. It still looked exactly like Kansas
Speaker 1: for quite a while, and then eventually you can start
Speaker 1: to see the rocky mountains in the distance. But um, yeah.
Speaker 1: One of the things I love about this movie is
Speaker 1: it feels so much like the town I grew up in,
Speaker 1: Like that small town vibe, wide wide, neighborhood streets, um
Speaker 1: main street where everyone parks, doesn't parallel park, but they
Speaker 1: park um kind of at an angle, you know. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: and just those vistas that you can just look out
Speaker 1: for miles. It really feels like kind of where I
Speaker 1: grew up, which is another reason I kind of have
Speaker 1: a soft spot for this film. Yeah, and you know,
Speaker 1: Malick would go on to be known for exactly what
Speaker 1: this movie embodies aesthetically. Um, I mean it's all there
Speaker 1: from the beginning those Uh. The only thing that's really
Speaker 1: different is the running time. He made a very short movie.
Speaker 1: He went on to make much longer films. But the
Speaker 1: the obviously, all the magic hour stuff, all the shots
Speaker 1: of nature, the close ups of nature, the dappled sun,
Speaker 1: might and shadow, and it's just interesting to see, Like,
Speaker 1: right from the beginning he sort of had a very
Speaker 1: clear idea of what he wanted to do aesthetically with
Speaker 1: his camera and with his lens. And I think what
Speaker 1: makes bad Lands interesting to talk about is because unlike
Speaker 1: his subsequent films, you know, when you talk about a
Speaker 1: lot of malik subsequent work, it's easy to throw around
Speaker 1: sort of these vague words like transcendent, uh, you know, beautiful, uh,
Speaker 1: all these words that are hard to define. Poetic, yeah,
Speaker 1: lyrical and those are all true, but they're also these
Speaker 1: kind of words that you're like, I get it, but
Speaker 1: they don't they don't do much for like talking about
Speaker 1: a movie, whereas bad Lands it's a little easier to
Speaker 1: sort of, uh, to talk about it in more grounded
Speaker 1: terms because unlike a lot of his other films. This
Speaker 1: is a very grounded story in the sense that it
Speaker 1: has a very clear narrative progression from A to B.
Speaker 1: We know where the story is going, and I think
Speaker 1: it's just very accessible in that sense. Yeah, yeah, And
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know how big of a fan
Speaker 1: you are of Days of Heaven, but that's always been
Speaker 1: my favorite Terence Malick movie. And uh, I did find
Speaker 1: it very interesting with those first two films, they both
Speaker 1: very much had a narrative plot, you know, that you
Speaker 1: could follow um point A to B to C. And
Speaker 1: then he went away for many, many, many many years
Speaker 1: and and then started making different kinds of movies, and
Speaker 1: that they still had that Malick look and I and
Speaker 1: I love Thin Red Line, and you know, it's been
Speaker 1: a bit of a mixed bag since then, I think,
Speaker 1: but uh, this in Days of Heaven are both just
Speaker 1: I think Malick kind of it is best. You know,
Speaker 1: my favorite Malick film is actually The New World, the
Speaker 1: the John Smith pocahonas one from two thousand five. Love
Speaker 1: that movie, and I think the reason that's my favorite
Speaker 1: is because I think it's it's the best blend of
Speaker 1: his sort of still kind of in telling more narrative
Speaker 1: stories from his older films while still having that very
Speaker 1: roving camera, that lyrical poetic quality. And I think that
Speaker 1: John Smith Pocahona story really lends itself to the merging
Speaker 1: of those two styles. Yeah, I forgot about that movie.
Speaker 1: I love that movie. Yeah. Yeah, But but bad Lands
Speaker 1: might is definitely my top three for sure. And um,
Speaker 1: it's just like the fact that this was the first film,
Speaker 1: Like to have your first film be this good at
Speaker 1: what age, you know, Like, I mean I I made
Speaker 1: a film, as you know, a feature film last year
Speaker 1: and like either you know, I'm proud of it, whatever,
Speaker 1: but it's not bad Lands for sure, put yourself up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's it's it's like, did a human really make this?
Speaker 1: You know? Yeah, it's astounding, especially for someone in their
Speaker 1: twenties to make something this sort of mature and focused
Speaker 1: and assured. Uh, you get the feeling that just out
Speaker 1: of the gate he knew exactly what he wanted. Um.
Speaker 1: I think Martin Sheen still says that it's his best
Speaker 1: movie or maybe his favorite movie that he's been in,
Speaker 1: and he's so good and and seeing this again through
Speaker 1: this lens, was it really hit me how much they
Speaker 1: are their children. Uh. Not only she supposed to be fifteen,
Speaker 1: he's supposed to be twenty five, but the way they
Speaker 1: act is at the same time very childlike, but also
Speaker 1: there immediately this old couple somehow in the way they
Speaker 1: interact with each other. It's really really interesting, Yeah that
Speaker 1: I noticed that to the old couple vibe. Where there's
Speaker 1: certain scenes where, um, maybe it's when they're hiding out
Speaker 1: in the woods and she's just walking around with like
Speaker 1: curlers in her hair and she, you know, he he
Speaker 1: like what She walks up to him and she takes
Speaker 1: the cigarette out of his mouth so she can smoke it,
Speaker 1: and it has this feeling of like the way a
Speaker 1: couple who's been married for twenty years would act around
Speaker 1: each other. Um. And yet you also get the sense
Speaker 1: that they're kind of they're doing it maybe because that's
Speaker 1: what they like, their play acting a little bit like
Speaker 1: an old couple would. Yeah, but they're also like very childlike,
Speaker 1: especially him, um, like setting up code words. And in
Speaker 1: the scene where that really got me was where they
Speaker 1: go to the rich guy's house and kind of hold
Speaker 1: up there for the afternoon, and he does he rings
Speaker 1: the little servants bell and he goes. Next time you
Speaker 1: hear that, that means it's time for us to get
Speaker 1: up out of here. Instead of just saying, hey, we
Speaker 1: gotta go, he sets up a little you know, something
Speaker 1: like a child would do, Like I ring the bell
Speaker 1: when it's time to go. Yeah, it's he. He is,
Speaker 1: without a doubt, one of the most like fascinating characters
Speaker 1: I've ever seen in a movie. Uh. And and Martin
Speaker 1: Sheen is just perfectly cast as him, as as Kit Caruthers. Um,
Speaker 1: and I want to talk a little bit about, um,
Speaker 1: the real life story, that real life case that inspired
Speaker 1: this movie. Are you familiar much with it? A little bit? Uh,
Speaker 1: the Charles stark Weather, Charles stark Weather and caroly And
Speaker 1: Fugate Um nineteen fifty eight murder spree that started in Lincoln,
Speaker 1: Nebraska and ended in Wyoming. And Um, he was nineteen
Speaker 1: and she was fourteen, and they killed I think ten
Speaker 1: people all in all over a few weeks, about a month.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's roughly the body count in this somewhere. Yeah, yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: Um and uh stark Weather when they were caught, stark
Speaker 1: Weather was set to death by electric chair and he
Speaker 1: was executed, and Carroly and fugate actually received life imprisonment,
Speaker 1: but she was paroled in ninety six. Uh and this
Speaker 1: is an interesting fact. But to this day, she's the
Speaker 1: youngest female in US history to have been tried for
Speaker 1: first degree murder at I think fourteen or maybe fifteen
Speaker 1: by the time she was tried. So so this is
Speaker 1: clearly the inspiration for bad Lands. And yet Malick takes
Speaker 1: a lot of these details, but he he doesn't you know,
Speaker 1: the movie doesn't say based on a true story. It's
Speaker 1: not interested. Yeah, he's not interested in in telling that
Speaker 1: exact story. But stark Weather in fact did sort of
Speaker 1: model himself after James Dean, and some of the lines
Speaker 1: in the movie that um Kit says were things stark
Speaker 1: Weather said like, um, I always wanted to be a criminal,
Speaker 1: just not this big one. That was an Actually Sather
Speaker 1: such a great line. Um And I just think that case, like,
Speaker 1: it's such fascinating case because it's sort of gripped the
Speaker 1: nation as it was happening. It was almost like a
Speaker 1: modern day Bonnie and Clyde. At the time, in the
Speaker 1: nineteen fifties and the nineteen fifties you think of as
Speaker 1: being this sort of innocent time. Um sort of like
Speaker 1: The Way Back to the Future depicts it, you know,
Speaker 1: when everyone's drinking milkshakes and you know, going dancing at
Speaker 1: the hop or whatever. But uh, this kind of shook
Speaker 1: the nation, you know. And yeah, and they portrayed that
Speaker 1: in the movie. You know that one kind of great
Speaker 1: um sequence where it talks of it shows the guards
Speaker 1: walking the kids from school and she's in the narration.
Speaker 1: You know, I guess we might as well talk about
Speaker 1: that a little bit, that great narration through the whole
Speaker 1: movie from Her, which Quentin Tarantino blatantly ripped off along
Speaker 1: with the score for true romance. This movie was very
Speaker 1: much a model for true romance, a movie I love.
Speaker 1: And he it's not like he ripped it off. He
Speaker 1: very much just said, like, yeah, I stole it. I
Speaker 1: stole it from bad Land is one of my favorite movies.
Speaker 1: So that's fine, you know, he borrowed it. But it's
Speaker 1: really good, a good lesson in narration, like if you're
Speaker 1: gonna go in, go all in. Yeah. Um. The narration
Speaker 1: is different than what we think of in usual narration
Speaker 1: because it doesn't it doesn't give you exposition for the
Speaker 1: most part, it kind of tells you things that are
Speaker 1: not really related to the story, which I think is
Speaker 1: what good narration does. It. Malick is not using it
Speaker 1: as a crutch to sort of fill in storytelling gaps. Necessarily,
Speaker 1: it's her. It's her mental thoughts really more than anything. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And it's sort of like, um, maybe this is her
Speaker 1: diary or her journal or something. But but the thing
Speaker 1: she talks about are so fascinating. And this is related
Speaker 1: in some of the interviews Malick gave back in the
Speaker 1: seventies about the movie, Um, he didn't want you to
Speaker 1: think Holly is like dumb or simple. It's that she's
Speaker 1: she's she's a typical Southern girl sort of. And she
Speaker 1: has this like weird sense of propriety where it's like,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to talk about myself, you know. Um,
Speaker 1: And so she relates this story as if she's like
Speaker 1: giving a school report on how you how she spent
Speaker 1: her summer vacation. Almost Yeah, So it's like, here's what
Speaker 1: we ate, and here are some of the flowers we saw,
Speaker 1: and just those very childlike things. Yeah. And I mean,
Speaker 1: and there's some of my favorite lines to uh. I
Speaker 1: jotted a few of them down or through her narration. Uh,
Speaker 1: and this sort of shows a little bit of the
Speaker 1: cracks early on in their relationship. When she goes kid
Speaker 1: accuses me of only being along for the ride and
Speaker 1: sometimes I wish he would fall into the river and
Speaker 1: drown so I could watch, But she just says it
Speaker 1: so childlike a matter of factly. It's just the impact
Speaker 1: as it's just phenomenal. So this is something I wanted
Speaker 1: to ask you about, and I sort of noticed it
Speaker 1: more watching watching the movie this time? Is to what
Speaker 1: degree do you think we're supposed to take Holly as
Speaker 1: an accomplice or somebody who's complicit or culpable for these
Speaker 1: these crimes. Do you think Malick wants us to see
Speaker 1: her as just you know, one half of the team
Speaker 1: or is it something else? Is she uh more of
Speaker 1: a more of a victim than a perpetrator? What do
Speaker 1: you think? Well, I definitely don't think that he wants
Speaker 1: her to be seen as an accomplice because she never
Speaker 1: really takes part in anything actually physically. Um, But I
Speaker 1: think it's interesting in that he also doesn't player as
Speaker 1: um captive And until sort of near the end, there's
Speaker 1: this one part where is it here I have it
Speaker 1: written down where there's sort of a switch that happens,
Speaker 1: and uh, it seems like she's a little more captive,
Speaker 1: but they don't, they don't play that up, like, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, like she doesn't ask to leave or anything,
Speaker 1: and he says, you can't, Like it's all I mean,
Speaker 1: you see how the dialogue in this movie between them
Speaker 1: is just so mundane that he will kill somebody and
Speaker 1: then talk about you know, uh, you know something sitting
Speaker 1: on the table that looks weird to him. You know,
Speaker 1: I mean, he's he's not smart. It's like you're talking
Speaker 1: about her not being smart. He's kind of a real dumbshit.
Speaker 1: And I've known guys like this that like he thinks
Speaker 1: he's smart, but he's not a true narcissist. Like when
Speaker 1: he's recording all of his thoughts and advice into the dictaphone,
Speaker 1: he really thinks he has something important to say, but
Speaker 1: he doesn't. And I think it's so it's so ironic
Speaker 1: that at the beginning of the film, when he first
Speaker 1: meets Holly, when he walks up to her when she's
Speaker 1: twirling her baton in the yard, he says something like, oh,
Speaker 1: I just got some things I want to say. Most
Speaker 1: people don't have anything to say at all. And then
Speaker 1: throughout the film, everything he does end up saying are,
Speaker 1: like you said, not smart things, these sort of like
Speaker 1: received you know, platitudes and ideas that clearly he doesn't have.
Speaker 1: That he probably just heard someone say and thinks they
Speaker 1: sound smart. Yeah, and he's and he also belittles her
Speaker 1: at times for being dumb um, like when when they're
Speaker 1: parked under the train track and you know, he clearly
Speaker 1: has no plan, he didn't know what the funk he's doing,
Speaker 1: and he he spins the bottle, but the bottle get
Speaker 1: points in a direction that he clearly doesn't want to go,
Speaker 1: and he's like, well, I'll just go pick a direction.
Speaker 1: If I can't do that, then what kind of a
Speaker 1: man am I? And she says, I don't know, or
Speaker 1: and he and he says something like uh, He's like
Speaker 1: you understand that. She's like, well, I don't know, and
Speaker 1: he goes, oh, what do I expect from you anyway?
Speaker 1: Or you know, like the guy that feels like in
Speaker 1: order to make himself feel smart, he has to put
Speaker 1: down the woman he's with. Yeah, And you never get
Speaker 1: the sense that Kit really loves her or cares about her.
Speaker 1: It feels much more like he just feels like I'm
Speaker 1: a guy that should have his girl by his side,
Speaker 1: and so here I picked a girl and I've got
Speaker 1: her now again. So much of I think how he
Speaker 1: models himself is again that James Dean idea of like
Speaker 1: I'm a rebel without a cause, even though i don't
Speaker 1: know what any of these things mean, but I've received them,
Speaker 1: perhaps from TV or movies, and this is how I
Speaker 1: should act, as the self made outlaw. Yeah, and the
Speaker 1: things that are important to him, um, like in the
Speaker 1: in the end, in that final chase sequence, you know
Speaker 1: he's he's looking in the mirror and checking his hair.
Speaker 1: He after he gets caught or he doesn't, you know,
Speaker 1: get caught and he gives himself up, shoots out the tire.
Speaker 1: And the first thing he thinks about after he checks
Speaker 1: his pulse, which I thought was great, was um stacking
Speaker 1: up those rocks as like a monument to where like
Speaker 1: the great Outlaw was finally captured. Yeah, and you know
Speaker 1: along the way there's a scene where they bury some
Speaker 1: of their their tokens in like basically like a time capsule,
Speaker 1: and he's like, what do people think if they dig
Speaker 1: this up in a thousand years. He very much treasures
Speaker 1: the idea of like being remembered. He thinks his life
Speaker 1: is of some great importance of like to to society,
Speaker 1: like people should be interested in who he is, and
Speaker 1: I mean the ironic things that they are, like when
Speaker 1: he gets captured, when when he's in chains in the airport,
Speaker 1: hangar yea. Literally on the stage. Yeah, he's on the stage,
Speaker 1: he's holding court. He's he's handcuffed, but I mean they're
Speaker 1: asking him, like, you know, who's your favorite singer, and
Speaker 1: he's like, he throws them his the things he has
Speaker 1: in his pockets. So he thinks a guy is lighter
Speaker 1: his comb and they just eat it up. You know.
Speaker 1: He's kind of like a modern day or for that time,
Speaker 1: like the prototypical like reality TV star or something. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and man, that whole last bit was so fascinating. You know.
Speaker 1: You see it turn when he's in the car getting
Speaker 1: taken away and the deputy in the back says that
Speaker 1: he looks like James Dean, and man, he you can
Speaker 1: just see him light up when he hears that. That's
Speaker 1: like the nicest thing anyone ever could ever say about
Speaker 1: him in his mind. Yeah, and then when he's on
Speaker 1: that plane wing, he's literally standing on the stage and
Speaker 1: just holding courts and they're laughing at him. And it
Speaker 1: was interesting how he played or how Malick chose to
Speaker 1: have the deputies play that as then being so interested
Speaker 1: in him, and you know, he shakes their hand at
Speaker 1: the end and sorry if you guys calls you any trouble,
Speaker 1: and deputy says, good luck to you. I mean it, yeah, man,
Speaker 1: It's really really fascinating as they're getting walked off with
Speaker 1: exactly how he would want, with a literal army, like
Speaker 1: escorting him out like that. This is what in his
Speaker 1: mind is like, yeah, this is what they needed. They
Speaker 1: needed an army to to to take care of me.
Speaker 1: And he says, you know, I could have I could
Speaker 1: have hold out a whole army if I had just
Speaker 1: got behind the mountains in Miamo. Didn't didn't know, you know.
Speaker 1: And I love those two those two policemen who actually
Speaker 1: capture him when they're in the car, because you can
Speaker 1: see them, they give these looks where they're sort of
Speaker 1: I think they even say like, hey, we did it,
Speaker 1: we caught him, like they know that they're sort of
Speaker 1: gonna be etched in history as the guys who caught
Speaker 1: him too, they're they're very much happy about that fact,
Speaker 1: you know. And I think it just speaks to how
Speaker 1: um fascinated we are with with both celebrity and um killers.
Speaker 1: You know, Like think about how people fascinated people are
Speaker 1: with Charles Manson or all these other famous you know,
Speaker 1: Ted Bundy, these famous killers. It's just this morbid fascination
Speaker 1: that I think is a very a very American thing,
Speaker 1: more so than in other places. Yeah, probably so um
Speaker 1: And you know, natural born killers I think played off
Speaker 1: of this movie, like the cup cal in the movie California,
Speaker 1: the k like the couple on this murder spree. Um.
Speaker 1: And then it Springsteen fans will be really mad if
Speaker 1: we don't mention this song. Nebraska was also based on
Speaker 1: the stark Weather case. Also a line in Uh we
Speaker 1: didn't start the fire bell, Joel. He says, I wrote
Speaker 1: it down here stark Weather Homicide, Children of the Little Mode.
Speaker 1: So yeah, he gives a little name drop to stark
Speaker 1: Weather to word. Yeah. I thought, I really love the
Speaker 1: scene where they had where she loses her virginity, and
Speaker 1: you know, because they don't show any of that, it
Speaker 1: literally just shows her kind of buttoning up and he
Speaker 1: gets up and she's just sort of like, you know,
Speaker 1: is that it is? You know what? What's everyone always
Speaker 1: saying with what the big deal is about that? And
Speaker 1: like you can tell it kind of wounds him a
Speaker 1: little bit because you know, he's the man and and
Speaker 1: but he plays it off like, well, yeah, it's no
Speaker 1: big deal at all. And then in like I don't
Speaker 1: know how you write dialogue like this, but he said,
Speaker 1: we should take this rock and smash both of our
Speaker 1: hands so we'll always remember this day. Like, who what
Speaker 1: twenty nine year old thinks about to write dialogue like that?
Speaker 1: It's just amazing. Yeah, And it's it's also you know,
Speaker 1: you can kind of it's sort of teases out Holly's
Speaker 1: psychology without putting a fine point on it, because again,
Speaker 1: she's supposed to be fifteen. She has a child in
Speaker 1: many of her specs, and you know, when he says
Speaker 1: we should smash this rock and she's like, won't that hurt?
Speaker 1: And he's like, that's the point, stupid, And it's just
Speaker 1: you know, Malick doesn't overdo it. But there is this
Speaker 1: kind of um in a very notable imbalance of power
Speaker 1: that's there on the edges of the film that, um,
Speaker 1: probably if you made a film like this today, you
Speaker 1: see that pushed much more to the forefront. But in
Speaker 1: this film it's very very subtle, just kind of there
Speaker 1: in the background. Yeah, absolutely, Uh. And that the scene
Speaker 1: kind of buttons up with a There's so many tiny
Speaker 1: little moments that just make his character so much more interesting.
Speaker 1: Where he goes, well, you know, I'm gonna keep this
Speaker 1: rock anyway, and he walks like three ft with his
Speaker 1: big gas rock, then throws it down and he's like, well,
Speaker 1: let me get a smaller one. Yeah, just to just
Speaker 1: to yeah, to follow up on sort of Kit's character.
Speaker 1: He has all these little idiosyncrasies, um like uh, like
Speaker 1: when they're walking in town and he gets mad at
Speaker 1: somebody for littering, and he's like, if everyone did that,
Speaker 1: the whole town would be a mess or something like that,
Speaker 1: and uh, people And this is so interesting and it's
Speaker 1: one of another thing I want to touch on that
Speaker 1: Malick did talk about again in these aforementioned interviews. I
Speaker 1: keep going back to you, but he saw Kit as
Speaker 1: very conservative, uh, and he thinks most of the people
Speaker 1: he kills are kind of worthless, and he has these
Speaker 1: very sort of traditional American values like don't litter. When
Speaker 1: they decided to go on the run. He has Holly
Speaker 1: Bringer homework, so she won't won't fall behind in her studies,
Speaker 1: you know. Uh. And the one person it's interesting to
Speaker 1: know that the one person he doesn't kill is the
Speaker 1: rich man. Well, I mean, you know, the one person
Speaker 1: who he very clearly it seemed like he was going
Speaker 1: to kill. Uh. And I think that's interesting because it's
Speaker 1: like the one guy, you know, I think there's a
Speaker 1: sense of Kit maybe like has some like sympathy for
Speaker 1: this guy, or he sees himself as like this is
Speaker 1: what I could be, this rich man living in this
Speaker 1: fancy home. Yeah, and it's like the one guy who
Speaker 1: doesn't need our sympathies is the guy Kits sympathizes with
Speaker 1: the most. Yeah, he has an interesting code. I will
Speaker 1: say that because you know, she even talks early on
Speaker 1: when they invade the camp um which, by the way,
Speaker 1: the production design on on their wooded camp was just
Speaker 1: so cool, like every little kid's dream to like you know,
Speaker 1: set traps and like live in the trees. But um
Speaker 1: he she even says in the narration she was like, well,
Speaker 1: Kit said that they they deserved it because they weren't
Speaker 1: law men. They were just out for the bounty reward.
Speaker 1: So like he has a code in that way shooting
Speaker 1: these men in the back, but and shooting his friend Cato.
Speaker 1: But then he he doesn't kill the couple. He locks
Speaker 1: them in the thing. He fires off two shots into
Speaker 1: the Yeah, so we don't know. I mean, maybe he does,
Speaker 1: but yeah, he it's hard to know if you know,
Speaker 1: he actually did kill them. But yeah, but he doesn't
Speaker 1: like outright killed him. And then the rich guy and
Speaker 1: and his housekeeper. Uh, he doesn't kill them either, So
Speaker 1: there is a weird code. Uh. But like I said,
Speaker 1: I think he's a dumb shit. I don't think he
Speaker 1: knows what his code is for sure. Yeah, no, I
Speaker 1: think again it's like these received ideas of what a
Speaker 1: man should act like, you know. And um, there's there
Speaker 1: is one quote. You know, I love to bring quotes
Speaker 1: in a quote from one of these Malick interviews, and
Speaker 1: I want to hear what you think of it about
Speaker 1: this because I think it, um it even speaks to
Speaker 1: sort of our current time political climate per se. But
Speaker 1: again everything is Yeah, but he's talking about the conservativism
Speaker 1: of kit and Malix said, quote, it's not infrequently the
Speaker 1: people at the bottom who most vigorously defend the very
Speaker 1: rules that put and keep them there. And speaking about
Speaker 1: quick Kit, yeah, geez, the more things change. Huh. Here's
Speaker 1: another Mallet quote. Actually, and this really drives home um
Speaker 1: a point about who this character is. And you probably
Speaker 1: read this one, but he at a news conference he
Speaker 1: said that Kit is so desensitized that he can regard
Speaker 1: the gun with which he shoots people as a kind
Speaker 1: of magic wand that eliminates a small nuisance. And that's
Speaker 1: kind of the the thing through the whole movie. He's
Speaker 1: wantonly killing, but it's uh, you know, he kills her.
Speaker 1: Warren oates the Great Warren notes h as her father.
Speaker 1: Who's who's gonna go call the cops on him? He's like,
Speaker 1: this gun, you know, we'll stop you from doing that.
Speaker 1: His friend Kato, that's clearly kind of running to go
Speaker 1: turn them in. He's like, this gun will stop him
Speaker 1: from doing that. This gun will stop these people from
Speaker 1: trying to rat us out in the woods. Like, I
Speaker 1: don't even think he sees it as murder. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I think this is one of the strongest parts of
Speaker 1: the movie. Is the way the violence is depicted, or
Speaker 1: should I say not depicted. Yeah, because you think a
Speaker 1: movie about a spree killer who kills probably almost ten
Speaker 1: people by the end of the movie, you would think
Speaker 1: that would be a very violent film to watch, and
Speaker 1: this film is not violent at all. And and when
Speaker 1: there is violence, it always happens very quickly, and like
Speaker 1: there's barely any blood. You might see a little blood
Speaker 1: on a shirt, and it's just over and done with
Speaker 1: very quickly, and it doesn't linger on it. And I
Speaker 1: think it's it's very much sort of maybe a commentary
Speaker 1: on the astheticization of violence and the way, you know,
Speaker 1: we tend to want to see violence in this morbid way. Um.
Speaker 1: But also I love how watching it this time, what
Speaker 1: I noticed was how there's so many times where like
Speaker 1: they'll kill somebody and then they'll kit in Hollywood just
Speaker 1: kind of hang around and like just just hang out
Speaker 1: and look kind of very blow Especially after he kills
Speaker 1: her father, they just sit in the house for like
Speaker 1: the whole night before figuring out what to do, and
Speaker 1: they just kind of both stare out at the at
Speaker 1: the window or something, just like you you think if
Speaker 1: you did that, you might want to like immediately have
Speaker 1: a plan and run away, but they just kind of
Speaker 1: hang out and just just relax almost. Yeah, and she
Speaker 1: never she you know, it's so underplayed, like she never
Speaker 1: gets hysterical. Holly just is sort of nonplussed about it all.
Speaker 1: You know, when when he shoots Kato, she goes in
Speaker 1: the room with him where he's ostensibly just sitting there
Speaker 1: dying very slowly, and she just goes in and just
Speaker 1: starts having a conversation with him and asking him a question. Um,
Speaker 1: very childlike. Again, like neither one of them, I don't
Speaker 1: think understands the gravity of what they're actually doing, but
Speaker 1: she slowly does, and I think that's that turn. It
Speaker 1: takes towards like the three quarter mark where she feels
Speaker 1: sort of captive but she doesn't know even when when
Speaker 1: they're in the back seat and he's kissing her when
Speaker 1: she has the rollers in her hair, like it feels
Speaker 1: like he's sort of forcing himself on her, but it's not,
Speaker 1: you know, she's not pushing him off and saying no, no, no,
Speaker 1: it's not like that. But you can tell that she's
Speaker 1: not there anymore with him, Yeah, exactly. And and shortly
Speaker 1: after that, I think is the scene where they're dancing
Speaker 1: to not King Cole, Yeah, which is in the headlights
Speaker 1: of the car, which is a great scene, but if
Speaker 1: you if you pay attention, it's really like it's really
Speaker 1: just a Kit is the one who's feeling these emotions.
Speaker 1: Holly's just they're going along with it. You yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know the line. I couldn't quite tell what he said,
Speaker 1: so I had to turn on the subtitle, but it's
Speaker 1: another great line of dialogue. He's listening to that King
Speaker 1: Cole and says, if I could sing a song like that,
Speaker 1: a song about the way I feel right now would
Speaker 1: be a hit. Such a great line and the narcissism again,
Speaker 1: you know, and the fact that if you look at
Speaker 1: the lyrics to that song, Um Blossom Fell, it's it's
Speaker 1: all about like love coming to an end, the dream
Speaker 1: is ended, true love dies, and stuff like that, which
Speaker 1: I think is maybe sort of lost on Kit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think so, but it's very appropriate for the movie
Speaker 1: because I think shortly after that is when they get
Speaker 1: to that um that area in the planes where the
Speaker 1: helicopter starts chasing after them, and that's where Holly finally says, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to go with you, and she finally
Speaker 1: makes that decision to break off from him, yeah, and
Speaker 1: and does it again in such an understated childlike way.
Speaker 1: She she kind of just sits on the ground and
Speaker 1: she's like, I don't want to go, and you know,
Speaker 1: he gets more frustrated and asked why what's going on
Speaker 1: and she's like, I don't know, I just don't want
Speaker 1: to go, and and like that's her big stand. Uh.
Speaker 1: The way that she handled handles it is just so
Speaker 1: childlike and um, and he knows, you know, he tells
Speaker 1: her that, you know, you know, we're gonna meet up
Speaker 1: on this damn on New Year's Eve and whatever ten
Speaker 1: years from now at noon, and it's like, where do
Speaker 1: you come up with this ship? Man? But can you
Speaker 1: imagine the relief that she felt when he left? Oh? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean when you when you mentioned this sort of
Speaker 1: childlike aspect. I mean, I know you have a young daughter.
Speaker 1: I'm sure there have been situations where she's like I
Speaker 1: don't want to do this and you ask why and
Speaker 1: she's like, I just don't want to. Yeah. It was
Speaker 1: very much like that scene right before. That scene too,
Speaker 1: is one of my favorite parts of Narration. That again
Speaker 1: It's just shows what a master writer Malick was from
Speaker 1: the very beginning where she goes, she's talking about what
Speaker 1: you know again, like what he's doing, what she's doing,
Speaker 1: what he's doing, what she's doing, And she goes, I
Speaker 1: spelled out entire sentences on the roof of my mouth
Speaker 1: with my tongue where nobody could read them, just like,
Speaker 1: how do you write that? Ship so brilliant And also
Speaker 1: like in relation to what's happening in the movie, you know,
Speaker 1: the idea that that's what her fictional audience would be
Speaker 1: interested in hearing about. It's just it's such a misplaced
Speaker 1: sense of misjudging who her audience is, you know. Yeah, Um,
Speaker 1: I mean that whole last sequence when they're driving through
Speaker 1: the bad Lands, Um and the Great Plains, just hauling
Speaker 1: acid in that sweet Cadillac off off roading it. Basically
Speaker 1: it was just such a cool decision to not put
Speaker 1: it on the highway somehow, you know. Yeah, And and
Speaker 1: once the cops start chasing him in the car, we
Speaker 1: get an actual chase scene. That's like, again, you don't
Speaker 1: really think of Malick as the guy who's gonna film
Speaker 1: chase action sequences, but it's it's really gripping. It's a
Speaker 1: really gripping chase sequence. Um, even though they're you know,
Speaker 1: they they obviously filmed it with not much money, but
Speaker 1: it works well when he speeds through the field and
Speaker 1: the cows are running out of the way in a
Speaker 1: dirt road where the dust is kicking up behind him
Speaker 1: and you can't you know, the cops probably can't even
Speaker 1: see ahead of him because of that. It's it's really
Speaker 1: really well shot, it is, and it feels genuinely dangerous.
Speaker 1: These cars kind of fish tailing and the dirt hauling
Speaker 1: ass right next to each other, these big, gass old
Speaker 1: cars that don't handle that well. You know, these aren't
Speaker 1: like stunt cars, guarantee. They were just an old stock
Speaker 1: caddy that he bought to destroy. Basically, it does feel
Speaker 1: very dangerous. Yeah, And I noticed watching it this time
Speaker 1: where the cops are chasing him and they're on a
Speaker 1: dirt road and Kit makes a sharp left turn and
Speaker 1: the cops follow and do the same and the cop
Speaker 1: car tips. It doesn't tip upside down, but it tips
Speaker 1: like straight up, slowly comes back down, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: there's there's no way they meant that, And it's like,
Speaker 1: where there are other takes where it flipped completely, Like
Speaker 1: I I can't imagine how if they just got really
Speaker 1: lucky with how far the car tipped, you know, well,
Speaker 1: and I think that's the ones who ended up getting him, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, it is. It doesn't really show that,
Speaker 1: it doesn't draw that line, but you get the feeling
Speaker 1: that that cars drove away from that that brief sideways tip. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because it seems that's when Kit it seems like he's
Speaker 1: going to get away from them, and that's when he
Speaker 1: decides to stop and shoot out his tire because I
Speaker 1: think he needs again, like we talked about earlier, he
Speaker 1: needs that sort of movie script ending to his tail
Speaker 1: where the cops apprehend him in a high speed cha. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And it's a really interesting decision to shoot out the
Speaker 1: tire rather than just give up. Um. And she even
Speaker 1: says so in the narration you know that that she
Speaker 1: thought it was or she was onto him basically and
Speaker 1: suspected that he shot out his own tire instead of
Speaker 1: the tire actually just blowing out naturally. Yeah, because it's
Speaker 1: almost like he feels he needs he can't be seen
Speaker 1: as having given up of his own volition. So it's
Speaker 1: like there had to be something that stopped him. You know, yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: let's talk a little bit about that Cato sequence, because
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, we talked a little bit about it.
Speaker 1: But they've um they got to his friend's house that
Speaker 1: I guess he just knows somehow, and he goes to
Speaker 1: turn him in. They shoot him. He dies very slowly,
Speaker 1: and that's I feel like, when a couple of interesting
Speaker 1: things happened, that's the first time that you see him
Speaker 1: emote and like act upset after he locked set couple
Speaker 1: in the in the cellar or whatever. And then you
Speaker 1: see him like kicking rocks and like, really, um, can't
Speaker 1: get ahold of himself. But beside that big truck, and
Speaker 1: that's the only time you see him sort of not
Speaker 1: at least pretending to be in control of himself. And that,
Speaker 1: I think is where it kind of turns to where
Speaker 1: I feel like she's feeling like a hostage for the
Speaker 1: first time, and I think onto him a little bit,
Speaker 1: like he doesn't even know what he's doing. And I
Speaker 1: think that's when the voiceover says, he's the most trigger
Speaker 1: happy person I've ever met, which is a very interesting
Speaker 1: way to describe him. Murdering a couple of people. But
Speaker 1: but yeah, that's scene where he's walking walking by himself
Speaker 1: and sort of kicking rocks and cursing. It's interesting because
Speaker 1: we don't hear what he says, like I think there's
Speaker 1: either music or maybe voiceover on top of it. And
Speaker 1: so again, we were never really allowed an entry way
Speaker 1: into kits psychology. Even we see you know, we see
Speaker 1: that emotion, but we don't really know what he's thinking.
Speaker 1: And I think maybe that's one of the brilliant things
Speaker 1: about this movie is that Malick never, um, he never
Speaker 1: attempts to psychologize Kit and never explain his actions. Um.
Speaker 1: He never says, oh, Kit, you know, grew up in
Speaker 1: a broken home and this is why he is the
Speaker 1: way he is, or he had an abusive father, is
Speaker 1: this this is why he is the way he is.
Speaker 1: It's never known nothing about him, you know, nothing about him, Yeah,
Speaker 1: except I think a little bit at the beginning when
Speaker 1: it shows him just kind of working these dead end
Speaker 1: jobs exactly. Yeah. And and the fact that early on
Speaker 1: we see Kato as like maybe his one friend from
Speaker 1: the garbage todays on the garbage route, you know, and
Speaker 1: the fact that he has no problem killing Kato. You know,
Speaker 1: Oh was that Kato at the beginning? Yeah, when he's
Speaker 1: when they're hauling garbage and uh yeah at the very beginning. Uh.
Speaker 1: The other cool thing that happens in that sequence to
Speaker 1: which is very instructive I think of or, is when
Speaker 1: the couple shows up and that he's walking him out
Speaker 1: to the field to put him in the cellar, and
Speaker 1: she and the girl are talking and it's just girl talk.
Speaker 1: She's like a kid. She has this connection that she
Speaker 1: hasn't had in weeks, and she's asking him if she
Speaker 1: loves her boyfriend, which, man, I mean, just what a
Speaker 1: great way to play and write that scene. You know,
Speaker 1: it's so banal. Like again, like you said, girl talk,
Speaker 1: just do you love him? Well, I gotta stick by kid.
Speaker 1: I think he feels trapped, you know, as they're clearly
Speaker 1: walking out to a field where there's a very good
Speaker 1: chance they might die. Yeah, And she even asked, She's like,
Speaker 1: you know, what's he gonna do? And she's just like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, you'd have to ask him. Basically. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's very it's it's incredibly chilling in a in a
Speaker 1: very detached way. Uh. How these scenes play out. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And and also for a movie that sort of plays
Speaker 1: out like a fairy tale in a lot of ways, Um,
Speaker 1: it's somehow not grounded in reality the way they play
Speaker 1: all this stuff, uh, and not reacting to you know,
Speaker 1: there's never, like I said earlier, there's never one moment
Speaker 1: even when her dad dies, where she gets upset about stuff.
Speaker 1: And that that point is interesting too, because Malick talked
Speaker 1: about how, um, it's not that maybe she never felt
Speaker 1: emotion about her dad's death. It's maybe she did cry buckets,
Speaker 1: but she would never think of telling you that, Like
Speaker 1: that wouldn't be proper to to share with the audience,
Speaker 1: because it would you know, she's again doesn't want to
Speaker 1: put too much attention on herself, and she just wants
Speaker 1: to come off in this the best possible light, so
Speaker 1: to speak. Yeah. I mean there's a brief moment when
Speaker 1: he's dying where she runs to his side, but even
Speaker 1: that is pretty underplayed and she says, are you gonna
Speaker 1: be okay? And he's like basically dead. Yeah, And and kids,
Speaker 1: great line is like he didn't need a doctor, you know,
Speaker 1: he's gone. And the way that murder is played out
Speaker 1: is so just low key and uh and real. You know,
Speaker 1: my favorite moment of that sequence is when a kit
Speaker 1: moves the body into the I don't think it's like
Speaker 1: the basement. Yeah, he drags into the basement and then
Speaker 1: he comes back upstairs and he's like, I found a
Speaker 1: toaster and he's just holding a toaster abound the toaster.
Speaker 1: It's like, why, like what is he what are your values? Man? Like?
Speaker 1: Why do you take these things? Yeah? I mean he's
Speaker 1: a dumb ship. The things that he chooses to do,
Speaker 1: Like he burns the house down, and that one great
Speaker 1: uh kind of the only handheld sequence in the movie,
Speaker 1: so it has a lot of impact when he's dumping
Speaker 1: the gas everywhere and Malick shoots fire so well, it's
Speaker 1: just so like with that score, so haunting. And he
Speaker 1: takes he puts on the record of him on a
Speaker 1: loop of what he's you know, trying to throw the
Speaker 1: cops off the scent and uh takes a lamp and
Speaker 1: then the rich man's house, he takes that trophy cup
Speaker 1: and and you know, the hat and the jacket and
Speaker 1: a couple of other dumb things. Like the things he
Speaker 1: finds and wants to collect is just weird and It's
Speaker 1: kind of ironic because, especially when he's on his garbage route,
Speaker 1: he talks about like he's kind of disgusted by all
Speaker 1: the junk people have or throw away, and yet he
Speaker 1: has no problem collecting the same kind of junk for himself. Yeah.
Speaker 1: He said that about Kato when he when he was
Speaker 1: in his room, he looked at all this junk. Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: And that, I think again points to that sort of
Speaker 1: disgust he has with the lower class, almost, like, especially
Speaker 1: at the beginning, how he's so sort of ashamed of
Speaker 1: being a garbage collector and he's like, listen, I don't
Speaker 1: like this stuff, okay, but I'm just doing it. And
Speaker 1: he he feels like he he clearly feels like he's
Speaker 1: way above being a garbage collector. Yeah. And and uh
Speaker 1: sort of takes the attitude into his first meeting with
Speaker 1: her father. Uh, when he goes out in that great,
Speaker 1: great shot which is so cool, where her dad is
Speaker 1: hand painting these billboard signs on the highway. Uh. And
Speaker 1: again with Jack Disk as a production designer, such a
Speaker 1: small detail that his his work truck had all that
Speaker 1: paint splatter all over it. Um. Just little things like
Speaker 1: that make it so rich. But I love that scene
Speaker 1: where he basically goes out there to sort of tell
Speaker 1: his father, her father, like, hey, I love your daughter
Speaker 1: and I'll do right by her. But the way he
Speaker 1: does it is not correct. No, I mean he clearly
Speaker 1: thinks he's above the dad. You know, he plays it,
Speaker 1: you know, the way you shouldn't play it. Was just
Speaker 1: sort of like, I'm kind of amused by the fact
Speaker 1: that i have to come out here and do this
Speaker 1: like song and dance, but I'll just do it just
Speaker 1: to humor you, right. Yeah, I love that scene and Warren,
Speaker 1: you know, the legendary war notes in such a small part,
Speaker 1: uh but still very effective. Yeah. He he has only
Speaker 1: I think a handful of lines in the whole movie,
Speaker 1: but they're not wasted. And he's just he's so uh
Speaker 1: kind of menacing, both as a person but also probably
Speaker 1: as a father. He's clearly a uh probably a strict
Speaker 1: father to say the least, you know, and Warnotes plays
Speaker 1: it very well. Yeah. I mean there's not a ton
Speaker 1: of dialogue in the whole movie because everything is so underplayed.
Speaker 1: Like if this movie got remade and it it sort
Speaker 1: of has been through uh wild at hard in California
Speaker 1: and uh, natural born killers, like I was saying, but uh,
Speaker 1: nobody would take this kind of approach. There would be
Speaker 1: so much more emotion and when the father dies, she
Speaker 1: would just be like screaming and upset and like everything
Speaker 1: is just so between this like here and here in
Speaker 1: this movie. And it's such an it like not brave,
Speaker 1: but like just a very confident thing for a twenty
Speaker 1: something filmmaker to do right out of the gate. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a it's it's it's a very strange movie, like
Speaker 1: I would very very much call it strange. And uh,
Speaker 1: it's it's even more of a kind of a miracle
Speaker 1: when you think about, like we talked about the troubled
Speaker 1: production of the film, that's the fact that the end
Speaker 1: product feels so seamless, Like they have three different directors
Speaker 1: of photography over the course of the movie and it
Speaker 1: never you never noticed that. It feels always feels like
Speaker 1: one clear, coherent vision. Yeah, totally. And Malik has that
Speaker 1: great cameo at the rich guy's house that I'm sure
Speaker 1: you know the story there he the actor didn't show
Speaker 1: and so he just filled in, planning to reshoot it later. Uh,
Speaker 1: And and Martin Sheen was like, now, man, I'm not
Speaker 1: reshooting that. You were great, you gotta leave it. And
Speaker 1: he he is really good. I mean it's just a
Speaker 1: small role, but Malik has that kind of like very
Speaker 1: soft spoken Texas drawl, and uh, It's it's weird because again,
Speaker 1: we know how Malick is, you know, since then he
Speaker 1: doesn't do interviews or press or anything, and so just
Speaker 1: to see him like in his own movie with Dialogue,
Speaker 1: it's just kind of this weird whiplash feeling like, oh, like,
Speaker 1: I'm sure a lot of people watch and don't even
Speaker 1: know that that's Malick, yeah, or or if they don't,
Speaker 1: aren't just a sort of a student of him might think, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: the director given himself a cameo like m Night Shammelan
Speaker 1: and like that is not Malex deal at all. Like
Speaker 1: he didn't, he didn't want to. He wanted to reshoot it.
Speaker 1: It is Uh, he did it as a last resort.
Speaker 1: I'm sure if there was anyone else on that set
Speaker 1: he could have stuffed in that suit like he would
Speaker 1: have done so, but it ended up working. It's kind
Speaker 1: of fun, fun to see him, and I love that.
Speaker 1: Martin Sheen was adamant that He's like, I'm not going
Speaker 1: to reshoot that scene, Terry, you have to We're keeping it.
Speaker 1: And little uh, little Emilio and Charlie Sheener in it too.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you knew that. I didn't I
Speaker 1: until um, yeah, I was just scrolling on the Wikipedia
Speaker 1: last night. I was like, oh, there are the two
Speaker 1: little boys on the street that Holly kind of looks
Speaker 1: out of her window at. Yeah, very cool their first
Speaker 1: appearance on film, I think. Yeah, And um, you know
Speaker 1: you're talking about Hollywood couples. Um, I didn't know this,
Speaker 1: but Martin Sheen and his wife they were married, obviously
Speaker 1: with kids at the time of this movie, but they
Speaker 1: are another couple that have been together there, uh that
Speaker 1: this whole time, Um, forty some years and yeah, still
Speaker 1: growing strong. So that's cool. There there's a handful of him,
Speaker 1: Jeff Bridges and his wife, like there's I know Hollywood
Speaker 1: has that reputation, but the ones that endure, like um,
Speaker 1: Kevin Bacon and Karas Sedgwick. I just I think it's cool.
Speaker 1: But I also think I think that's cool when any
Speaker 1: couple stays together forever, like you don't have to be
Speaker 1: from Hollywood. I think it might be a little more
Speaker 1: challenging just due to the scheduling and not being around
Speaker 1: each other and all that. But uh, mating for life
Speaker 1: is admirable, you know, coupling up. Uh, do you got
Speaker 1: anything else? I mean, I'm out of notes. I could
Speaker 1: certainly talk about it more though, if you have some
Speaker 1: more stuff. Um Man's one of my favorite movies. Me too, Man,
Speaker 1: And there's just so many great lines, Like I don't
Speaker 1: want to just spend the rest of the time just
Speaker 1: quoting lines from the movie or throw a couple out.
Speaker 1: I want to hear well. One of my favorite moments,
Speaker 1: not necessarily necessarily a line, is where Kit shoots the football.
Speaker 1: And it's so funny because right before that you hear
Speaker 1: the voice over Holly saying we would sometimes ram a
Speaker 1: cow with the car to say bullets. And then the
Speaker 1: next scene, Kit decides to shoot a football because it
Speaker 1: was excess baggage. Yeah. Again, that childlike thing. Uh, he
Speaker 1: probably wanted to know what what happened if he shot
Speaker 1: up football, like if it would explode or something. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And and there's a that reminds me just to put
Speaker 1: a bow on some of the you know, analysis of
Speaker 1: of Kit as a character. M Malick talked about how um,
Speaker 1: which I think is a really fascinating aspect of it,
Speaker 1: This idea that um suffering makes you deeper, profound, like
Speaker 1: people who have suffered, especially in movies, usually like you
Speaker 1: see it on their face. They have this maturity, this
Speaker 1: wisdom from their suffering. But Malick said, in relation to Kit, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that sometimes happens, but sometimes suffering can just make you like, uh,
Speaker 1: closed off and narrow minded. And I think that could
Speaker 1: very much be applied to Kit. That he's sort of, uh,
Speaker 1: he thinks he has a great depth of knowledge and wisdom,
Speaker 1: but he doesn't at all, and he's very just sort
Speaker 1: of simple and and a dumb shit. Yeah, he's simple
Speaker 1: and a dumb sh it. But that is the classic
Speaker 1: sort of story of the of the narcissist UM. I mean, truly,
Speaker 1: there are intelligent narcissists, but man, I've known people like
Speaker 1: this that that think they have so much to say, Um,
Speaker 1: this roots he wisdom, and they don't know what the
Speaker 1: funk is going on. They don't have a plan. Kit
Speaker 1: never has a plan. Uh. And it's interesting drawing that
Speaker 1: line to politics these days, there's some lines that can
Speaker 1: definitely be drawn yeah, with the folks he wisdom, and
Speaker 1: how Malick makes it very regional and sort of the
Speaker 1: way Kit talks like he has kind of that that
Speaker 1: Southern accent, that sort of Texas Southern accent, and the
Speaker 1: way he says things like, you know, takes all kinds,
Speaker 1: don't it. You know, just he he speaks in UM
Speaker 1: A lot of those those folks ye aphorisms that um
Speaker 1: you here in that part of the country. You know,
Speaker 1: I know, and I think UM, and I don't listen. Man,
Speaker 1: I don't want to like disparage anyone, but I have
Speaker 1: known people from parts of the country that use those
Speaker 1: aphorisms in in place of having something of their own
Speaker 1: to say, and they just regurgitate a saying like like
Speaker 1: it takes all kinds because there's no critical thought going on,
Speaker 1: and you know, to be fair, there's certainly an amount
Speaker 1: of that that's just like you say, it as just
Speaker 1: like kind of something to say, like it isn't meant
Speaker 1: to be you know, it's just sort of like a
Speaker 1: polite thing to say or I don't know, you know,
Speaker 1: like it's not always it's not always said by people
Speaker 1: like Kid who think they're super deep. Sometimes it's just
Speaker 1: said sort of nonchalantly, but with somebody good stuff. Oh yeah, sure.
Speaker 1: But when somebody thinks that these sort of aphorisms have
Speaker 1: a lot of truth, and they think that they're the
Speaker 1: one who's like blessing the world with this knowledge, that's
Speaker 1: where you can kind of run into trouble, you know. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: I really really love this movie and I'm glad I
Speaker 1: got to watch it again. Um, we should do Days
Speaker 1: of Heaven too. I mean, you know, I would do
Speaker 1: any and every Malick movie you would want to do. Man.
Speaker 1: I I hesitate a little bit because I know Casey
Speaker 1: would want to do something will be so mad. He's
Speaker 1: also big disciple of Malick. But um, but yeah, man,
Speaker 1: any any time, just you know, you know how to
Speaker 1: reach me. I wonder maybe if you and Casey and
Speaker 1: I could all do Days of Heaven that'd be fun.
Speaker 1: Like you and your closet, him and his closet in
Speaker 1: the other room. Yeah, me and my baby saying Casey
Speaker 1: and I are roommates. Yeah, what do you mean? Uh? Yeah,
Speaker 1: Days of Heaven is just I mean I rank it
Speaker 1: as my favorite Terrence Malick film. Um, and you know
Speaker 1: I had the great Brooke Adams on this show as
Speaker 1: a guest. Yeah, yeah, she was on. You know, she's
Speaker 1: married to Tony Shalub and I got a line into
Speaker 1: Tony and I was like, would Brooke want to be
Speaker 1: on two because I'm gonna be in New York. She
Speaker 1: could you guys could both come in together and just
Speaker 1: do it back to back. And He's like, sure, she'll
Speaker 1: come in. So waiting for Guffman, um, which was which
Speaker 1: was good. But I got to ask her some questions
Speaker 1: about Days of Heaven, which I had always wanted to
Speaker 1: ask about that shoot uh and kind of hear it
Speaker 1: from you know, one of the horses Mouths, which is great,
Speaker 1: and another movie with there are There are a lot
Speaker 1: of similarities here and those movies with the narration and um,
Speaker 1: not just the aesthetic look because that's all of Malick,
Speaker 1: but they're the relations a couple on the run. Um,
Speaker 1: there's some kind of same DNA going on, and that
Speaker 1: that that theme. Malleck does a lot of sort of
Speaker 1: Paradise gained in Paradise lost, you know, like in bad Lands.
Speaker 1: It's maybe when they're out in the woods living this
Speaker 1: sort of Adam and Eve style life in nature, and
Speaker 1: same with Days of Heaven. Where they retreat to, you know,
Speaker 1: the Texas Panhandle to live in this sort of idyllic setting.
Speaker 1: And then of course that never lasts. Reality always intrudes,
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, and we also got violence too, and
Speaker 1: both of those movies is very similar. Yeah, yeah, very true. Um.
Speaker 1: I was just gonna say, also got to give a
Speaker 1: shout out to a Linda Man's from Days of Heaven
Speaker 1: who just passed away. Oh did she? Oh you didn't
Speaker 1: know that? Yeah, within just within the past couple of
Speaker 1: months she passed away. Oh man, I don't know how
Speaker 1: I missed that. Yeah, just just a bummer because she's Um,
Speaker 1: I forget how old she was, but she wasn't that old.
Speaker 1: Oh god, she's so great that that voice, in that accent,
Speaker 1: in that narration. And she didn't really do much else. No,
Speaker 1: I think she was in maybe a couple of other projects,
Speaker 1: but really didn't become an actor full time, you know. Man,
Speaker 1: So sad. All right, dude, well that was great. I
Speaker 1: think we should try and do uh, get all three
Speaker 1: of us in there, because I love that movie so much,
Speaker 1: and and I know you guys are both big, big
Speaker 1: malik dudes, so let's let's do that totally down aime. Well,
Speaker 1: thanks buddy, thanks for having me man. So it's fun.
Speaker 1: All right. Everyone go out and see bad Lands, or
Speaker 1: watch bad Lands if you haven't yet. Three minutes long
Speaker 1: and one of the all time, all time great movies.
Speaker 1: Very tight, very tight, nine three minutes. You don't see
Speaker 1: that from Malick very often, so uh, enjoy it, enjoy
Speaker 1: all right, thanks everyone. Movie Crash is produced and written
Speaker 1: by Charles Bryant and Meel Brown, edited and engineered by
Speaker 1: Seth Nicholas Johnson, is scored by Meel Brown here in
Speaker 1: our home studio at Pontsty Market, Atlanta, Georgia. For I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit
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