1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,320 Speaker 1: The House, the Senate, and a special prosecutor at the 2 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 1: Department of Justice are all investigating whether Trump campaign and 3 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:10,480 Speaker 1: transition officials colluded with the Russian government during and after 4 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:14,320 Speaker 1: last year's presidential campaign. Recent reports have indicated that the 5 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,479 Speaker 1: FBI is interested in contacts between the Russian government and 6 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: the president's son in law and close advisor, Jared Kushner, 7 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: for instance, and the House and Senate Intelligence committees have 8 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: asked the president's personal lawyer, Michael Cohen to cooperate with 9 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: their investigation, but he has said he will not cooperate 10 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: unless he's issued a subpoena. We're gonna be talking about 11 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:37,880 Speaker 1: the investigations going on into possible collision with the Russians 12 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 1: with two guests today, Andy Write, a professor at Savannah 13 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 1: Law School, and former federal prosecutor Renato Mariotti, who is 14 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 1: a partner at Thompson Coburn. Renato, Let's start with Michael Cohen. 15 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: Why would the investigators be interested in talking to the 16 00:00:55,640 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: president's personal getting information from the president's personal attorney. Well, 17 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: then attorney's communications with his clients are privileged. But when 18 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,680 Speaker 1: the attorney is not acting as a lawyer, his actions 19 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 1: are judged just like anyone else's actions. So, for example, 20 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 1: there have been press reports that that Mr Cohen was 21 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 1: communicating with the Russians on his own, was actually traveling 22 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: overseas and having meetings. I believe there was a report 23 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 1: about a meeting in Prague. If hypothetically an attorney he 24 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:30,960 Speaker 1: was having a meeting with foreign officials, um, you know 25 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: that meeting would not be privileged. The only privileged communications 26 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: would be the communications and Mr Cohen would have with 27 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: this client, the president. So you know Mr Cohen would 28 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: be would be investigated just like any other individual who 29 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: was having contacts with foreign governments. But um, andy, do 30 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: you expect to see if he is subpoena, which it 31 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 1: seems likely, and he testifies that he is going to 32 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 1: be invoking that privilege, and there's going to have to 33 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: be a decision made as to whether or not it applies. 34 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 1: You're gonna say that's based on conversations I had with 35 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 1: my client, and off we go. Yeah. Well, so if 36 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: he receives the subpoena, it'll first of all depend on 37 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 1: the scope of the subpoena, and if the scope of 38 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 1: that subpoena reaches his communications with his client, then this 39 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:20,799 Speaker 1: issue is presented. Now, let's say he wanted to assert 40 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: attorney client privilege on behalf of his client, President Donald J. Trump. Um, 41 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: he would have to establish both for each document that 42 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,960 Speaker 1: was within the scope of the subpoena. What the basis 43 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: is for withholding that. So first point is it's a 44 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 1: document by document level analysis. Um, the courts have just 45 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 1: held this uh in the dispute with air Holder and 46 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: Lynch about Operation Fast and Furious. And the second uh 47 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: fact is that he is going to have to uh 48 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: present that to the chair of the committee. So the 49 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 1: House chair House Intelligence Committee chair will be the one 50 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: who makes the initial legal ruling as to the applicability 51 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: of the privilege to his um, his conversations with his client. 52 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:05,920 Speaker 1: And so of course, since the committee has one asking 53 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 1: for those documents, unlike a court where it's the prosecutor 54 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: or the grand jury asking for the documents and the 55 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: judge decides. Here it's the same person it's requesting and 56 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,960 Speaker 1: subpoena documents that makes the initial legal ruling. Ernando, there 57 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 1: have been reports that, UM, you know, Mr Cohen has 58 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 1: functioned in a lot of different capacities over the years. 59 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 1: For for now, President Trump business capacities, etcetera. He was 60 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 1: seemed to be something of a spokesman at times during 61 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: the campaign. If you were conducting this investigation, how and 62 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: you were going to issue a subpoena to him, how 63 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: would you go about framing it in order to ensure 64 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 1: that you know, you wouldn't get caught up saying emotion 65 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: to quash the subpoena. So I would if I what 66 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: I would do is I would narrowly tailor the subpoena 67 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 1: so that or or if I was well, either I 68 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: would narrowly tailor the subpoena up front, or I'd write 69 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: abroad supene and negotiate with Mr with Mr Cohen in 70 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: a narrow to narrow the scope of the spenis so 71 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: that I made sure I was only requesting communications that 72 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: wouldn't be privileged. So for what that would be is 73 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: first of all, communications that were not attorney client communications 74 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: between him and Mr Trump, and also not nothing that 75 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: was potentially happened after Mr Trump's election that would arguably 76 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:31,479 Speaker 1: be subject to executive privilege. So I would I would 77 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 1: ask for categories of documents like, for example, Mr Cohen's 78 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: travel records. Mr Cohen's personal communications with um, you know, 79 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 1: with foreign entities, things that it would be very difficult 80 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: for Mr Cohen would argue our privilege. President Trump is 81 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:50,239 Speaker 1: called allegations that his campaign colluded with the Russian government 82 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 1: fake news. But now CNN reports that former FBI Director 83 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:58,040 Speaker 1: James Comey will testify before the Senate Intelligence Committee about 84 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 1: allegations that the President pressure him to end the FBI's 85 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:04,600 Speaker 1: investigation into the matter. We've been talking on Bloomberg Law 86 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 1: today about the President's personal attorney, Michael Cohen, who has 87 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:10,479 Speaker 1: so far refused to cooperate with the House and Senate 88 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:15,600 Speaker 1: Intelligence committees investigations without a subpoena, and former National Security 89 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: Advisor Michael Flynn, who had been resisting subpoenas has now 90 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: agreed to turn over some documents to the Senate Intelligence Committee. 91 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 1: Our guests talking about all of these events and developments 92 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: in the in the ongoing investigations are Renato Mariotti, a 93 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: partner at Thompson Coburn who's a former federal prosecutor, and 94 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:38,919 Speaker 1: professor Andy Wright of Savannah Law School. Andy, what is 95 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 1: the Senate Intelligence Committee and potentially the House Intelligence Committee 96 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,479 Speaker 1: and the FBI? Are these the Justice Department, I should say, 97 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: looking for from Michael Flynn. Well, from Michael Flynn, They've 98 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: they've got several different lines of inquiry. One relates to 99 00:05:54,800 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 1: his UH emoluments or payments from Russia today rt UM 100 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 1: and whether that violated UM the monuments responsibilities he had 101 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:08,599 Speaker 1: as a general, his relationship with Turkish affiliated entities under 102 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 1: the Foreign Agent Registerration ACTUM, whether he was truthful with 103 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: the FBI when they when they questioned him about his 104 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 1: Russia contacts, with which it appears that he may not 105 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:23,719 Speaker 1: have been um, potentially what he was saying internally to 106 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 1: the White House, and what he was telling other senior officials, 107 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:29,159 Speaker 1: including the Vice President, about those contacts with Russia, and 108 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 1: then some questions about his actual communications with Russia themselves, 109 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:37,119 Speaker 1: including the discussion of sanctions which he had originally denied, 110 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:39,280 Speaker 1: and whether or not that might create some sort of 111 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:42,919 Speaker 1: Logan Act liability, although that's a statue that is rarely 112 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: used NANO. Let's discuss the sort of line he and 113 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 1: his attorney are walking. Because he had previously invoked his 114 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 1: Fifth Amendment protection against self incrimination in denying earlier requests 115 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: by the committee. Now he is going to comply with 116 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 1: to subpoenas sent to his businesses and also apparently personal 117 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 1: documents sawt via a separate subpoena. So what do him? 118 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: What does he and his attorney? What are they looking 119 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 1: at and having to worry about here? Well, so, first 120 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 1: of all, the reason that he has not a he 121 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 1: is not the continuing to fight the subpoena to his 122 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: business is because businesses don't have Fifth Amendment rights, at 123 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: least under established court precedent. So it's very difficult for 124 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: him to get around that subpoena um as to his 125 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: personal documents. One thing I think we can glean so 126 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: far is that clearly um Mr Flynn has documents in 127 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: his possession that his attorneys believe um incriminate him. And 128 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 1: in fact, what they're essentially asserting is that the mirror 129 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 1: production of the mirror um, the mere possession of those documents, 130 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 1: or revealing that he is the person who possesses those 131 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: documents themselves with incriminated without alone that act of showing 132 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 1: that what it would itself incriminate him, which is why 133 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 1: they have resisted the subpoena. In other words, it's not 134 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: just the contents of it, but just the mere possession 135 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: of those documents. So this so what they're going to provide, 136 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: can we be pretty sure is going to be pretty clean? 137 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:26,119 Speaker 1: I would what I would say, what I would think 138 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: is that unless unless the documents are in the possession 139 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 1: of the business entities, yes, I think that they will. 140 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:36,200 Speaker 1: I think they will be documents that are not going 141 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 1: to incriminate him because they've already very aggressively asserted Fifth 142 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: Amendment privileges to his the documents that were, um, would 143 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:50,560 Speaker 1: that we're subpoenate from him personally? Andy? This seems to 144 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 1: the investigation. I mean, you have so many things going 145 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 1: on now, uh, in these investigations. You have a special 146 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:58,319 Speaker 1: prosecutor appointed, Now we have a report that Comey is 147 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: going to testify. Um, things seem to be heating up 148 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 1: a lot and moving a lot faster than they were. 149 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: Can we expect a conclusion to any of this any 150 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 1: time soon? Or is this going to still look like 151 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 1: the kind of investigation that can embroil an administration for 152 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: you know, in in subpoenas and document requests and testimony 153 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 1: for years. Yeah. I think everyone needs to brace themselves 154 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: that this is not going to be wrapped up with 155 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: a bow anytime soon. Both. Um, you know, criminal investigations 156 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 1: have their own pacing, and congressional investigations do as well. 157 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: Part of it is that there are so many different 158 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:35,320 Speaker 1: people and so many different potential leads that need to 159 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: be chased down, and that that's going to take a 160 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 1: lot of time to just get the investigator's arms around 161 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 1: the various things they want to inquire in. Plus, once 162 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 1: they get the documents and they get the information that 163 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: they're trying to see now at these various poenas and 164 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 1: requests and testimony, they're gonna have to go through them. 165 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: They're gonna have to read the documents, analyze them, put 166 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 1: them in chronological order, and try and draw some conclusions. Um, 167 00:09:57,840 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 1: you know, on the criminal side, whether they were criminals, 168 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: acts violated. On the congressional side, whether or not their policies, appropriations, 169 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 1: or other um redeal actions the Congress needs to take. 170 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 1: And Renato, do you believe that uh Mueller's investigation is 171 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: going to move more rapidly than the congressional investigations because 172 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:22,679 Speaker 1: of he has more power. I don't think it's going 173 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 1: to move rapidly at all. I would be surprised if Mr. 174 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: Mueller's investigation didn't take many months or or potentially well 175 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:34,559 Speaker 1: over a year. Uh, criminal investigations take a long time. 176 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:39,079 Speaker 1: I expect Mr Mueller to dig in, interview everyone, um, 177 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: you know, even tangentially connected to this subpoena, a lot 178 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:46,560 Speaker 1: of documents, um, and and operated a slow, deliberate plate pace. 179 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 1: I mean, he's a man who has a great reputation, 180 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:51,840 Speaker 1: who knows that the work he's doing is very important 181 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 1: and is going to be heavily scrutinized. And I don't 182 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: think he's going to take any action until, um, he 183 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,679 Speaker 1: has all the ducks in a room. Our thanks to 184 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,319 Speaker 1: Ato Mariatte, a partner at Thompson Cockburn, and Andy Wright, 185 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: professor Savanna Law School, for being with us today on 186 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Glat to talk about the various investigations into the 187 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 1: possible collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia.