1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:01,680 Speaker 1: If this is what I have to go through to 2 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:03,360 Speaker 1: write a book, I don't ever want to write another 3 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:09,559 Speaker 1: book again in my life. 4 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 2: Good morning Renee, Good morning Caitlin. We are launching our 5 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 2: what is this fourth season of this podcast on a 6 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 2: very special day. It is your fiftieth birthday. 7 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 3: All right. I mean you didn't need to put the 8 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 3: number on the like start, did you. I mean he 9 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 3: could have just said it was my birthday. 10 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 2: But it is your fortieth birthday. 11 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:36,839 Speaker 1: It's myti. 12 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 3: I remember when I turned forty and I thought I 13 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 3: was old then, So I guess I just have to 14 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:45,200 Speaker 3: embrace it. Half a century. I made it, and I'm 15 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 3: surrounded by great, loving fun friends. You and I had 16 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:51,599 Speaker 3: a great trip on a boat the other day, paid for, 17 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 3: paid and taken care of by my very good friend Dedra. 18 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 3: So I've got some very good friends in the world. 19 00:00:57,480 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 3: So yes, we are recording this and getting it out 20 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 3: on my Burtnee. 21 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 2: And what a amazing first episode we have for this 22 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 2: season because you spoke to James Bleak, a legend in 23 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:15,320 Speaker 2: and around the sport, obviously a player, a Davis Cup champion, 24 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 2: a Harvard graduate, and a commentator, but most notably and 25 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:22,679 Speaker 2: most timely. He is the tournament director for the currently 26 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 2: underway Miami Open. 27 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 3: That's right. Yeah, I spoke to James back actually during 28 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 3: the stray And Open, and you know, there was a 29 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 3: lot of uncertainty about Miami and where it was going 30 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:33,320 Speaker 3: to happen. It was going to be in Miami, that 31 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 3: were talking about putting it at Abba Dhabi. So he's, 32 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 3: you know, obviously had to go through a lot over 33 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 3: the last few months. He's also gone through a lot 34 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 3: in his life in general. We get into that quite 35 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 3: substantially about different things, from his father, to his illness, 36 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 3: to his own issues, to police brutality. I mean, you 37 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 3: name it. James has sort of been through a lot 38 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 3: in his career and one of the nicest guys you'll 39 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 3: ever meet in your whole entire life. 40 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 2: I think my favorite part of this episode is you 41 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 2: kind of gently call him out for being well, you 42 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 2: use the word dick, but a bit of a prickly 43 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:14,519 Speaker 2: personality at times for tournament directors, and now finding himself 44 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:18,400 Speaker 2: a tournament director a much more sympathetic and sort of 45 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 2: nuanced position on the sport. That's a real evolution. 46 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 3: Well, I mean, listen, it takes one to know one, right, 47 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 3: So I know exactly what I used to be like 48 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 3: with certain tournament directors and certain scheduling and various different things. 49 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 3: But it's nice that he now can sit back. It's 50 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 3: the same with coaching now that I coach. You know, 51 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 3: I wasn't easy on my coaches. So I think you know, 52 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 3: now that I'm fifty, Caitlin, you start to recognize some 53 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 3: of the things that the immaturity brought out in you 54 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,640 Speaker 3: as a as a younger player. And you know, tennis 55 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 3: plays are pretty selfish. The world, you know, revolves around them. 56 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 3: So it's interesting for him because he now in his position, 57 00:02:56,639 --> 00:03:00,920 Speaker 3: can be so much more three D and and available 58 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 3: to play is to be able to decide to them. Look, 59 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:04,639 Speaker 3: I know, but the big picture is X and Y. 60 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 3: So it's it's good and he's yeah, he talks about 61 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 3: it a lot. Well. 62 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 2: I absolutely love that this is happening during the Miami Open, which, 63 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 2: as you noted, was sort of fraught for a time, 64 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:16,799 Speaker 2: unclear about where whether or not it would be held, 65 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 2: how it would be held, what kind of bubble, what 66 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 2: kind of fans. So far, the tournament's underway, you know, 67 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:24,639 Speaker 2: seemingly without a hitch, and I really, really really admire, 68 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 2: especially players who turn around and find themselves in positions 69 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 2: of leadership and really embrace the things that both concerned 70 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 2: them and advocate they wanted to advocate for when they 71 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 2: were players. On behalf of players, but also have a 72 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 2: bigger understanding of the volunteers, the umpires, the staff, the physios, 73 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 2: all the stuff that makes this world work. And I 74 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 2: was really you know, moved by how much that means 75 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 2: to him and seeing how you know, seriously he takes 76 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 2: that and you know, so far he's put on a 77 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 2: great tournament this year, but also since he's taken it over. 78 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 2: So you know, I'm really pleased we had James on 79 00:03:58,440 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 2: the show. 80 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 3: Nice job me too. And as I said, not only 81 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 3: I get to work with him now at ESPN, you know, 82 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 3: not not a lot, but when I do, he's just 83 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 3: the he's just a generous kind, he's just a good guys. 84 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 3: As we say in AUSTRAI he's a good bloke. 85 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: Good blok. 86 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 2: All right, Well, what's no further ado, here's our first 87 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 2: episode of the season. I hope you enjoyed, James Blick 88 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 2: and again, Happy birthday, Renee. Excited to get people your 89 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 2: voice in their ears. 90 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 3: Welcome back everybody. Well, first of all, I want to 91 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:33,599 Speaker 3: welcome James Blake to the Racket Magazine podcast. James, you 92 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 3: and I have been talking about doing this for a 93 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 3: while since at least the US Open last year, so 94 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:39,600 Speaker 3: thanks for joining me at. 95 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 4: Least happy to be here. Sorry it's taken so long. 96 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 3: No, No, I'm glad. We you know, we save our 97 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 3: best for the third season. So here you are. 98 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 4: Exactly has been build up, you know, the opening act. 99 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 3: That's right, that's why, you know, people. We've got to 100 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:54,480 Speaker 3: give the people what they want, and they've been wanting 101 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 3: you for a while. So I'm glad that you're here. 102 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:00,599 Speaker 1: Very hard, but I like the I like that, I 103 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: like pretending that's true. 104 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:04,719 Speaker 3: My favorite thing is that you are getting on this 105 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 3: before Marty Fish, who's also said that he's going to 106 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 3: do the pod, but he, of course, you know, he's 107 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 3: too busy going out and winning golf tournaments. He's too 108 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:13,159 Speaker 3: important for everybody. 109 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 4: Now exactly, way too important. 110 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: But I mean I told him last week that it's 111 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 1: you know, it's just the same old headline as a 112 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 1: Blake carries Fish to victory, because you know, he had 113 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 1: my brother on the bag there here's the caddies. So 114 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:25,919 Speaker 1: I mean, it's just the same old story. It's just 115 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:27,280 Speaker 1: you know, he's got to rely on a blake. 116 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 3: I love that, and I'm going to bring that up 117 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,160 Speaker 3: when I do talk to him. So way to go, 118 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 3: Way to go, Whay to go? On that one. I 119 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 3: always start the pod by asking people how they got 120 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 3: into tennis, And I kind of know your story, but 121 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 3: I'd like you to tell everyone what and why you 122 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 3: got into tennis. 123 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 1: Well, that was It's always been Another joke in my 124 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:51,159 Speaker 1: householder is that it was because my parents were too 125 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: cheap to pay for a babysitter, and they both played 126 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 1: and they played for fun. They actually kind of met 127 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: on the tennis court when my dad was sort of 128 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: getting at her and learning. He learned in the service, 129 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 1: and my mom had played all her life, so she 130 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 1: was pretty good around the public courts, and so they 131 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: got to playing together and my mom helped my dad, 132 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: and then they just took a liking to each other, 133 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: and a little bit a little bit later, my brother 134 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: and I showed up, so you know, they and it 135 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 1: was what they did together. It's what they always liked doing. 136 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: So our kind of routine on a weekend if we 137 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: if we had time together as a family, we would 138 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: go out and play tennis. And whether it's my dad 139 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: hitting with my mom and me hitting with my brother, 140 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 1: or me hitting with my dad and or me hitting 141 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: my mom, we would just kind of mix and match, 142 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:38,279 Speaker 1: and we just all got to playing together. And that 143 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: was what we my brother and I loved. I wanted 144 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:42,280 Speaker 1: to be like him. He was better at it from 145 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 1: a young age, so I wanted to be like him. 146 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 1: And then as we got a little older, a little older, 147 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:49,600 Speaker 1: we played every sport. My brother and I were both 148 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:53,599 Speaker 1: pretty pretty athletic and just trying to do anything and everything. 149 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 1: And eventually my dad sort of sat us down and said, hey, 150 00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: I'd rather you guys pick one thing and try to 151 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 1: be good at one thing. You didn't care what it was, 152 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: just to pick something and I'd like you to put 153 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 1: your focus to that. And both of us on our 154 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: own pick tennis. And just because we had played it 155 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: for so long and we both loved it. I loved 156 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: the individual aspect of but I love the fact you 157 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: go out and you win or you lose, and you 158 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: got no one to blame but yourself if you lose, 159 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: and you know, what hard work you put in, and 160 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: you're not going to go out and blame anyone else. 161 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 1: I like that. 162 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 3: So I'm always fascinated because at some stage a lot 163 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 3: of obviously a lot of tennis players, a lot of athletes, 164 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 3: you are good athletes in other sports, you know, Like me, 165 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 3: I swam competitively, and I had all these choices, and 166 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 3: I had an older brother that I always wanted to 167 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 3: be sort of around and with. Almost fascinated like, what 168 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 3: other sports would if you didn't have if you hadn't 169 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 3: picked tennis, what other sports would have driven you to 170 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 3: be as competitive as you were as a tennis player. 171 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 1: Well, I've thought about that plenty of times, especially as 172 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: I see the contracts going crazier and crazier in baseball, 173 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: is because that's a sport I probably last dropped off 174 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: off from UH because I loved baseball. I liked I 175 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: liked that team atmosphere. And probably one of the best 176 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 1: things that happened to my tennis career is that I 177 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: had a terrible team when I was about thirteen years old, 178 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 1: and I got so frustrated with the fact that I 179 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 1: would do everything, I could have a good game and 180 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: do everything, and then we just kept losing and losing 181 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 1: and losing and losing, and I was like, you know what, 182 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 1: maybe I'll get rid of this and I'll stick to tennis, 183 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 1: where if I if I play bad, I deserve to lose, 184 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 1: but if I play well, hopefully I actually win. 185 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 4: But I still loved baseball. 186 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 1: I actually went back my senior year in high school 187 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 1: just for fun and played played with some of my buddies, 188 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: and my coach wouldn't let me pitch anymore. I was 189 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 1: I was the reliever. I was only allowed to pitch 190 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: one inning at a time because he didn't want to 191 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 1: hurt my arm. But I I loved I loved playing baseball, 192 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:48,079 Speaker 1: and I thought about what would have happened if I 193 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 1: had put my focus on that, and I think I 194 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 1: would have been right smack dab in the middle of 195 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 1: that steroid era. 196 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 4: So I don't think I would have had a chance. 197 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: So maybe it was Maybe it was a good thing 198 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 1: because I wouldn't have been doing that, and I don't 199 00:08:57,679 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: think they had a lot of room for a you know, 200 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,080 Speaker 1: a guy that can could run but but couldn't hit 201 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: a lout of home runs, because I don't think I 202 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: ever would have been one of those those beefier guys 203 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 1: that's sitting forty. 204 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 4: Home runs in a year. 205 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 1: So I don't know. I don't know how it would 206 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: have gone because I think I would have come up 207 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:13,439 Speaker 1: right in that era and I would have had I 208 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: would have had an issue with that. 209 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 3: I think you would have probably fit into sort of 210 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 3: like a Derek Jeter type of player. And I mean 211 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 3: you and Derek are actually pretty good friends. 212 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, you spend a bit of time around like Tampa. Yeah, 213 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:27,319 Speaker 1: I mean, I definitely like to think of myself as 214 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 1: one of the all time greats, as I probably would 215 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 1: have been similar to Derek Jeter, as you know, first 216 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 1: ballot Hall of Famer almost it was the unanimous Hall 217 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:34,079 Speaker 1: of Famer. 218 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 4: So yeah, that's probably about me. 219 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: Well, we'll say that, We'll say that would that would 220 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 1: have been me. 221 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 3: I'm sure next time you see him you can tell 222 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 3: him that I said that. You know that. 223 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, I basically would have had the same career as him. 224 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:51,680 Speaker 3: Now, I'm always also interested in, like I wasn't going 225 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 3: to talk to you about this, but you know, just 226 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:55,680 Speaker 3: the fact that your parents did mete on tennis court, 227 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 3: and the fact that your dad was black, your mom 228 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 3: is English, how did she end up in the States, 229 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 3: and like, how was that for them, Like in a 230 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 3: period of time being in a biracial relationship and then 231 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 3: raising you two boys. Have you had discussions with your 232 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 3: parents about that period of time? 233 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 4: Oh? Yeah, definitely. 234 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: So my mom she came over to the States because 235 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: her father died in World War One. 236 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 4: Not to age her, but she's not. 237 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: Young, and but she came over because they really didn't 238 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 1: have much of a way to earn a living. And 239 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: she was about seventeen, her older sister met an American 240 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: and married him, and my grandmother and my mom basically 241 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 1: just followed her. She was living in Jefferson City, Missouri, 242 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 1: which my mom said was quite a culture shock coming 243 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: from a small town in England. And she lived there 244 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: and she met a man, she met her first husband, 245 00:10:55,520 --> 00:11:00,120 Speaker 1: and that brought her to New York and then she 246 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: had two kids with him, and that was when she 247 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 1: was very very young and moved on from that relationship. 248 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 1: And then when she was then she met my dad, 249 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 1: like I said, on the tennis courts there in New York. 250 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:11,959 Speaker 4: And it was definitely difficult. 251 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: It was definitely a time where it was not really 252 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 1: accepted and they talk about a lot of times they 253 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 1: told me about times where they were definitely seen as 254 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: outcasts or you know, somewhat ostracized and not fitting in. 255 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 1: And luckily for my mom, her whole family definitely opened 256 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:35,839 Speaker 1: with open arms welcomed my dad and they didn't see 257 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:39,200 Speaker 1: anything being a big deal, mainly because he treated my 258 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: mom so well, and her first husband really did not. 259 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 4: He was white, the first husband, and my dad. That's 260 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:47,720 Speaker 4: and I think that's now being a parent, that's all 261 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 4: I want for my kids is someone that's going to 262 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:52,680 Speaker 4: treat them well. And my dad treated my mom well, 263 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 4: and so my grandmother appreciated that, loved him, welcomed him 264 00:11:57,760 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 4: with open arms, and so that was the big thing 265 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 4: that there was the acceptance there. But as far as 266 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 4: the rest of society was concerned, it was difficult. And 267 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:06,839 Speaker 4: even you know, we play a sport. 268 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: That's especially when I was growing up and when you 269 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 1: were growing up was pretty, uh, pretty predominantly white, and 270 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 1: to go to little junior tournaments and stuff, I was 271 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: in the minority by by quite a lot and standing 272 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 1: out in uh in different ways, and my mom was 273 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 1: definitely protective of that and made sure that I still 274 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: got a fair a fair shake no matter what. And 275 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 1: there were times early on where it didn't seem like 276 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: I was getting one, and she stood up and she 277 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: made sure to uh to stand up to people that 278 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 1: didn't she didn't think were giving me fair treatment. And 279 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 1: I'm very thankful to her for that. And it took 280 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:45,079 Speaker 1: some It took some learning because I didn't want to 281 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: feel like I was. When you're a kid, you don't 282 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: feel out of place until someone points it out, and 283 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 1: then then when you start realizing it it was. It 284 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 1: was something I became more and more aware of, and 285 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 1: my mom tried to make it as normal as possible. 286 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:04,199 Speaker 3: And what was your dad's input into that? Because obviously 287 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 3: a very different upbringing for your dad as opposed to 288 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 3: your mom. So how was your dad's input in that? 289 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 3: Or was he a little bit more sent back ish 290 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 3: and let your mom sort of take that role? 291 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: No? I actually I mentioned my mom because I guess 292 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 1: probably in my head it's almost a given my dad 293 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: was outspoken about it. My dad was was not taking 294 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 1: anything from anyone. My dad, I mean, my agent said 295 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 1: that he was scared. My dad wasn't a huge man, 296 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 1: but he had a very deep voice, a commanding sort 297 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 1: of figure. And my agent says, he was scared of 298 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 1: my dad from like the first time, because you know, 299 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 1: he's nicest, can be, nice, can be. And then he 300 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 1: pulled them aside. And my agent is much bigger than 301 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: my dad, and he just said, you don't ever talk 302 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: to my son without going through me first. It was 303 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 1: when I was I was going to college and he's like, 304 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 1: he's like, he's going to college to get an education. 305 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 1: I don't want you putting any any ideas in his head. 306 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: You talked to me and Carlos, my agent, came to 307 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 1: me and said, you know, years later, he told me, 308 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: he's like, your dad scared me so much. He's like, 309 00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:58,960 Speaker 1: I was so scared every time I called you, I 310 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 1: had to call your dad first. I'm like, believe me. 311 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 1: I know. I was scared of my dad my entire childhood. 312 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: I know that feeling. 313 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:06,080 Speaker 4: So my dad. 314 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, like I said, I almost think of it as 315 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:10,679 Speaker 1: a given that he was outspoken about it and he 316 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:14,440 Speaker 1: wouldn't let anyone, you know, treat me unfairly or do 317 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: anything that was that was in any way that he 318 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 1: felt was wrong in any way. And he was he 319 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 1: was great about educating me and giving me as many 320 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 1: books as I could, as as he could about you know, 321 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: African American by African American authors, or about the you know, 322 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: the culture in general. So he was he was someone 323 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: that was definitely outspoken, but it just it seemed like 324 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 1: it was different because people maybe thought they had a 325 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 1: i don't know, a safe person to talk to or 326 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 1: to treat unfairly because my mom was you know, like 327 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 1: he said, she's kind of she's not that big. She's 328 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: kind of I don't know, not not as not as much. 329 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 3: You go home too when you go Yeah, she's so sweet. 330 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, yeah, and she she seems so sweet, 331 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 1: and so they almost felt like they could, you know, 332 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: be we would be pushovers. And my mom in some 333 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 1: ways she may have been because she was so nice 334 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:04,400 Speaker 1: in general, but when it came to something that was 335 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: about her kids, she was definitely not going to be 336 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: a pushover. 337 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 3: I'd like to hear all of that. So, yeah, I mean, 338 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 3: you mentioned that your dad was, and I'm sure your 339 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 3: mom were really adamant that you went to college. You go, so, 340 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 3: you know, you play through juniors. You're obviously recruited quite heavily, 341 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 3: but I guess why Harvard because it's not really known 342 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 3: as a tennis school, right, so why, I mean, I 343 00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 3: can't even believe those words are coming out a Mount 344 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 3: Why Harvard. But as a person who wants to be 345 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 3: a professional tennis player, were you thinking about being a 346 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 3: professional at that point? Do you think you were good enough? 347 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 3: And yeah? Why? Yeah? 348 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 1: I went through kind of ups and downs in my 349 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 1: junior career, because when you're eleven, twelve, thirteen years old, 350 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 1: you don't I don't think for me, at least, I 351 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 1: didn't have a sense of reality. I thought, Okay, I'm 352 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 1: going to be a pro tennis player. This is going 353 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 1: to be great. I mean, but at that point, I 354 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 1: was still thinking I was maybe going to be a 355 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 1: pro tennis player and a pro baseball player. And I 356 00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 1: was seeing Dionne Sanders and that's possible, and so I 357 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: thought all that. Then reality kicks in and I'm fourteen, fifteen, 358 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 1: sixteen years old, and I'm tiny. 359 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 5: So I was fifteen, well reality to some degree, to 360 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 5: some degree, to the reality of maybe I'm not going 361 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 5: to be a pro tennis player because I was getting 362 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 5: beat up in junior in New England tournaments and national tournaments. 363 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 4: I was getting crushed. 364 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: So I thought, okay, you know, I'm going to do 365 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 1: my best and see how good I can be as 366 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 1: maybe a college player, and hopefully I can do that. 367 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 1: And then I kept just working as hard as I could. 368 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 1: That was the goal, just work as hard as I 369 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 1: can and see see where it takes me. I finally 370 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: kind of shot up and grew around sixteen, like seventeen 371 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 1: years old, and went from being kind of a guy 372 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 1: that barely makes nationals to being one of the best 373 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 1: players in the country. And that happened so fast that 374 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 1: I didn't know how to react. I didn't know what 375 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 1: to do. I didn't know what I didn't realize what 376 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 1: had changed, from being an okay player to being someone 377 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: that was getting agents talking, getting every college interested, getting 378 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:05,640 Speaker 1: people at the USTA talking about me, me turning pro, 379 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:08,640 Speaker 1: and I really didn't recognize any of that. And I 380 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: went to college still with the thought that I was 381 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:12,119 Speaker 1: going to be playing three or four on my college 382 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:15,399 Speaker 1: team because my brother three years older than me. To me, 383 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm a younger brother with a brother that's bigger, stronger, faster, 384 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 1: smarter if you ask him, better looking, you know than me, 385 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 1: and everything, you know, better than everything. So I looked 386 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: up to him, and I thought he was so much 387 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 1: better that when I got to school, there's no chance 388 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 1: I was anywhere close to him. And before I knew it, 389 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 1: it happened that I was, you know, in talks of 390 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: playing number one, and we never actually got to play 391 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:39,879 Speaker 1: off in a challenge match, but we kind of platooned 392 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:43,560 Speaker 1: at one and two, and so I just I thought 393 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: about it, and I was debating between Harvard and North Carolina, 394 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 1: and those are. 395 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 4: My two choices. 396 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:52,440 Speaker 1: And I was lucky enough to have Thomas, my brother, 397 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: already at Harvard, to know that, hey, I can get 398 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: the training I want with him. With the rest of 399 00:17:58,040 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: the team, the guys are good, you know, the guys 400 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 1: are The team is good enough. I can get the 401 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: training I want, and I just have to be comfortable 402 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:08,199 Speaker 1: with the fact that I could also manage the academic 403 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 1: and the tennis. And I had a perfect example of 404 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,199 Speaker 1: my brother being able to do it. And then I 405 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:15,119 Speaker 1: went there. I had a great time and loved it. 406 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:17,679 Speaker 1: And yeah, I don't look back at that as a 407 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 1: bad decision about any stretch of the imagination. 408 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:24,160 Speaker 3: So after a year, you're like, all right, I think 409 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 3: I'm good enough to head out there, but sort of 410 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:31,199 Speaker 3: I mean, have you had how many conversations have you 411 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:34,919 Speaker 3: had with people where they've actually said, when should we 412 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:37,639 Speaker 3: make the decision to go pro? Or should we go 413 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 3: to college? And how many times have you told people 414 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 3: go to college, like take that route? Particularly now with 415 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 3: tennis being not a sprint, it's literally players playing into 416 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 3: their thirties and yeah, what do you tell someone? What 417 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 3: advice would you give to parents out there? 418 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 4: I would give the same. 419 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: I mean I still feel like even early on in 420 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:56,639 Speaker 1: my career, before we were seeing these careers of guys 421 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 1: playing till their late thirties and women playing till their 422 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:02,720 Speaker 1: late thirties, I think I would always tell people if 423 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: it's not painfully obvious, if you're not Andy Roddick winning challengers, 424 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:10,920 Speaker 1: getting to finals, or winning tour events at eighteen years old, 425 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 1: if you're not Sam Querry who was winning back to 426 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:16,640 Speaker 1: back challengers when I mean, I remember hitting with Sam 427 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 1: Quarry right before he was making a decision, and I 428 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,119 Speaker 1: even was like, you know, I'm not sure, and anyone 429 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 1: two challenges around, I'm like, Okay, if you can have 430 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 1: that kind of success on tour, that's fine, then it's 431 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 1: time to turn pro. If you're not doing that there, 432 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 1: I don't see any downside to playing at least a 433 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,160 Speaker 1: year of college because if you can prove to yourself 434 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 1: and prove to the rest of the tennis world that 435 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 1: you're good enough to dominate college tennis and be a 436 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:43,880 Speaker 1: top two to three player in the country, and maybe 437 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 1: you're not getting pushed every single match, Okay, now it's 438 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,400 Speaker 1: time to turn pro. Then you've proven that you've exhausted 439 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 1: every other option and you've gotten a year of free 440 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 1: training where you're hitting with guys that are hopefully going 441 00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:57,159 Speaker 1: to be able to show you something. And for me, 442 00:19:57,520 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: I also think it helps you grow up a little 443 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 1: almost like a little bit of a bridge mentally and 444 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 1: in your in your maturity level, because you're gonna be 445 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 1: held responsible for your whole team. You're gonna you're gonna 446 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: have to you know, when you have those losses, it 447 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 1: hurts because you let you maybe you feel like you 448 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,400 Speaker 1: let your team done, and when you win, you feel 449 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:17,199 Speaker 1: like you're doing something as part of a team. I 450 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: love that aspect. But you've gone from being under your parents' 451 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:23,400 Speaker 1: care to now you're you're doing some of the stuff 452 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:24,879 Speaker 1: on your own. You still have to be accountable for 453 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: being in class. You still have to be accountable for 454 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: being at practice on time, but they're scheduled as opposed 455 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:31,199 Speaker 1: to when you're on tour. Hey, if you don't want 456 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 1: to show up for practice, you don't have to show 457 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 1: up for practice. That's the only thing that's gonna cost 458 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 1: you is in your bank account when you when you're 459 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:38,639 Speaker 1: losing matches because you're not practicing enough and you're not 460 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: hitting the gym enough, so you don't have those things scheduled. 461 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:43,639 Speaker 1: So this is a bit of a bit of a 462 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:48,119 Speaker 1: bridge to that accountability. And so I loved college, and 463 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 1: that's without even talking about the social aspect. How much 464 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 1: I loved my friends I got to meet there, the academics, 465 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 1: how much I learned while I was at school, and 466 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 1: the connections I made the whole time I was there. 467 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:01,359 Speaker 1: So I think there's no real down side because you 468 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: always have the opportunity to turn pro right after that. 469 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:07,880 Speaker 1: And it's so rare nowadays, especially on the men's side, 470 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,159 Speaker 1: to have a guy come out and be lighting it 471 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 1: up at eighteen years old. Nineteen years old, it takes 472 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 1: a little more time physically developed. When I got to college, 473 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:17,639 Speaker 1: I was one hundred and fifty five pounds. When I 474 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 1: left two years later, I was one hundred and seventy five. 475 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:22,199 Speaker 1: And that makes a big difference. I mean, if I 476 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,439 Speaker 1: was playing on tour at one hundred and fifty five pounds, 477 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 1: but my body would have broken down so fast, I 478 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: wouldn't have been able to go five weeks in a 479 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: row on the road at one hundred and fifty five pounds. 480 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 3: Yeah. I think that's the one thing that people don't realize. 481 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:36,880 Speaker 3: Also is that you get not only getting schedule practice, 482 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,399 Speaker 3: which is really difficult to do if you don't have 483 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,679 Speaker 3: an academy or don't have things around you. Plus you're 484 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 3: also in a fitness you're in the fitness room, you're 485 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 3: in the gym, you're in physios. You get all the 486 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 3: treatment you would get if you're on tour, except you 487 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:48,639 Speaker 3: got to go to school. 488 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 4: Yeah. 489 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 3: I want to also, you know, you were in a 490 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 3: period of time obviously, whereas like Andy you mentioned Andy Roddick. 491 00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 3: You know obviously he had this like phenomenal early part 492 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 3: of his career. I'm sure to you guys was like, oh, 493 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:03,879 Speaker 3: this is great, like maybe we can do this. How 494 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 3: much is it important? And then obviously Marty and so 495 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 3: you and Marty were like a little bit like trying 496 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,159 Speaker 3: to climb the ladder together, a little bit underneath Andy. 497 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 3: But how important is it for you? Do you think 498 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 3: to have like peers? Because I always say success breed success, 499 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 3: So you guys sort of pushed each other. Obviously Andy 500 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 3: had a phenomenal career with what he did, but how 501 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:25,720 Speaker 3: important was that for you? 502 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 4: Yeah? 503 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 1: I think it was great that we all had each 504 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,479 Speaker 1: other and we did it in a different way. And 505 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 1: it's another example of when you don't realize what maybe 506 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:35,880 Speaker 1: you're supposed to do, you do it your own way 507 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: and it makes it makes sense. And the way we 508 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 1: did it was we were all friends. It was Andy, Marty, myself, Robbie, Janeppri, 509 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 1: Taylor Dent, the Brian brothers and we were all coming 510 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 1: up around the same time. And when one of us 511 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: had success, Yeah, when Andy had success, we're all happy 512 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,400 Speaker 1: for him, proud of him, and it showed us, hey, 513 00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:59,880 Speaker 1: we can do this too, we can push harder. And obviously, 514 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 1: you know there's differences in physical abilities, there's difference and 515 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:06,439 Speaker 1: opportunities and skill sets, and Andy obviously out outclassed all 516 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,879 Speaker 1: of us when it comes to his record, but we 517 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 1: pushed each other in practice. I mean there were times 518 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 1: where Andy couldn't take that I was going to do 519 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:17,159 Speaker 1: another two on one or I was going to do 520 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,159 Speaker 1: another running drill and he I'm gonna get out there 521 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 1: and do it too. Some of my best practices and 522 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,119 Speaker 1: best practice weeks for those Davis Cup weeks where we 523 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,440 Speaker 1: were pushing each other. Andy showed me a new drill 524 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 1: that he was just doing, and he was working, you know, 525 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,199 Speaker 1: is five minutes of this. Okay, I'm gonna bust my 526 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:32,919 Speaker 1: button and I'm gonna do it just the same as Andy. 527 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:34,760 Speaker 1: He's gonna do the same thing that I'm doing. And 528 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:36,440 Speaker 1: we were you know, we're being each other. I mean 529 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 1: we Andy and I had some of the most epic 530 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 1: practices where we don't we barely sit down. I mean, 531 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 1: you play it practice with a lot of other guys, 532 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: you sit out and you have your water. It takes 533 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 1: two three minutes. Andy and I just as like when 534 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,359 Speaker 1: we played our matches too, it's you sit down, you 535 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 1: take a sip, and you go. And we kept playing 536 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:54,879 Speaker 1: and playing and working each other out. And and I 537 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: love that because the other thing that we did was 538 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: that when every time we played, whether it be me 539 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:03,400 Speaker 1: again him or me against Marty. Is whoever won takes 540 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,439 Speaker 1: the guy out to takes the guy that loses out 541 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 1: to dinner next night or whatever. And because we beat 542 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 1: each other up and there was no holding back when 543 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 1: it's on the court. 544 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,159 Speaker 3: I was party to a few practice sessions, definitely between 545 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 3: you and Marty at Saddlebrook, And yeah, I want I 546 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:21,400 Speaker 3: want to know between the two of them and you, 547 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 3: who was the best trash talking because I got to 548 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:25,159 Speaker 3: tell you I heard the stuff the ship that was 549 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 3: said between you guys. So I want to know, in 550 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,679 Speaker 3: your opinion, who the best trash talker was. 551 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,679 Speaker 1: I gotta say Marty. Marty is the best trash talker. 552 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:39,159 Speaker 1: He's funny, he's he's under Actually both those guys, I 553 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: would say are underrated. And how funny they are. Andy, Yeah, 554 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,199 Speaker 1: Andy's good at it. But I think Marty. Marty's just 555 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 1: really witty and he gets, he'll he'll get he'll get 556 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 1: his digs in and he'll deflect the ones coming at 557 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 1: him pretty well. 558 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 4: He's, uh, he's good at it. 559 00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 1: But they but yeah, we had some fun practicing and U. 560 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:00,920 Speaker 4: Yeah. 561 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 1: The thing was we did it as friends and we 562 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,119 Speaker 1: always I mean, if I lost in a tournament. I 563 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 1: want Andy or Marty to win it. If Marty lost, 564 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:09,120 Speaker 1: he'd be the first one to say, hey, great job 565 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 1: if I win it, or same to Andy, and we 566 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 1: were cheering for each other. And then as we got older, 567 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 1: we learned that the generations before us, they didn't do 568 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 1: it that way. They they sort of breathed success by 569 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 1: the fact that they had almost a hatred of each other. 570 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 1: They've all come together now post careers and everything, but 571 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:27,880 Speaker 1: during their careers they genuinely didn't like the other one 572 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,399 Speaker 1: and didn't want them to win. We did it in 573 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 1: a very friendly manner, and I mean I think that 574 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,199 Speaker 1: started with Davis Cup. Andy and I both started on 575 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 1: the Davis Cup team in two thousand and one and 576 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 1: doing that together, we felt like that was a journey 577 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 1: we wanted to be on and we were gonna we 578 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 1: were gonna hopefully bring the Cup home, and we did. 579 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:48,959 Speaker 1: It took us a while, but it was something that 580 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,159 Speaker 1: was so much fun to be a part of that, 581 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 1: and we did it because we were friends, and yeah, 582 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,199 Speaker 1: that was that was definitely what pushed What pushed us was, 583 00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 1: you know, Andy wanted to beat up on me. I 584 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,119 Speaker 1: wanted to beat up on him. We both wanted to 585 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 1: beat up on Marty, and Marty wanted to beat up 586 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 1: on us, and that's just the way. That's the way 587 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:06,919 Speaker 1: it was. But we also were so happy when the 588 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: other ones were succeeding. 589 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 3: Yeah. I think that that's an important part of growing generation, 590 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:15,680 Speaker 3: is that you push each other, but you support each 591 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,120 Speaker 3: other as well. Or you know, you have the Pete 592 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 3: Samprus the Jim Coury is that andre where they are 593 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,680 Speaker 3: totally all separated from each other, but they pushed each 594 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 3: other because they wanted to be the best. And hey, listen, 595 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 3: that was an unbelievable generation. Yeah, so what is it 596 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 3: with American tennis? If you know, if you had to 597 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:39,159 Speaker 3: be sort of like a czar, what would you try 598 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 3: and express to the younger generation of American place, particularly 599 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:43,640 Speaker 3: the men. 600 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was just going to say, I mean, I 601 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,360 Speaker 1: don't want to have to remind you that actually we're 602 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 1: doing great in American tennis. On one side, the women's 603 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 1: side is doing amazing. So I don't have any I 604 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:55,679 Speaker 1: don't have any advice for them, but keep doing what 605 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 1: they're doing. It's incredible and exciting for the young ones 606 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 1: that are coming up too. Is even more exciting. So 607 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,119 Speaker 1: so that side, I don't I don't have to speak 608 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:06,439 Speaker 1: on that too much about what I would do to 609 00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 1: advise them. But on the men's side, yeah, I think 610 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 1: this group right now is I'm hoping is similar with 611 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 1: the fact that they're going to push each other at 612 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,960 Speaker 1: a friendship. I know, Taylor Riley, Tommy, Paul Francis, those 613 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 1: guys are all close, they're all good buddies, and you 614 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,480 Speaker 1: see talent. But I think the thing that's that's maybe 615 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,880 Speaker 1: difficult is sort of the the generations coming up now. 616 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:38,680 Speaker 1: There's almost that instant gratification generation where they expect things quickly, 617 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 1: and in tennis now it seems like it's taking a 618 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 1: little bit longer to mature and longer to get to 619 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 1: to where you need to be. There's a few outliers, 620 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 1: of course, I mean Czipas at such a young age 621 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,720 Speaker 1: doing so well. Madvedev is doing very well at a 622 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,359 Speaker 1: young age, but it's taking a little bit longer. And 623 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,679 Speaker 1: I think these Americans can do well, but it's just 624 00:27:57,720 --> 00:27:59,120 Speaker 1: taking It's gonna take some bumps. 625 00:27:59,520 --> 00:27:59,679 Speaker 4: You know. 626 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,240 Speaker 1: France has had a breakout Australian Open and then had 627 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 1: a little. 628 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:04,200 Speaker 4: Bit of a you know, a little bit. 629 00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 1: Of a letdown, if you want to say sophomore's lump, 630 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 1: whatever you wanna call it. Riley Opelka, I think is 631 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:13,119 Speaker 1: someone that's gonna have a long career if he stays healthy. 632 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,440 Speaker 1: It's just a manner of managing his body, managing his time, 633 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: managing his practices, and figuring out a way to get 634 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 1: a few more breaks. I mean, his serve is going 635 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:26,199 Speaker 1: to be unstoppable for hopefully for his sake, ten to 636 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,640 Speaker 1: fifteen years on tour and then just finding a way 637 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,400 Speaker 1: to get enough breaks to put fear into every single 638 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:34,879 Speaker 1: player he plays. He can be another John Isner that 639 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 1: nobody really wanted to play. So I think he's got, yeah, 640 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:43,200 Speaker 1: take completely out of rhythm and it's just gonna be 641 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 1: so it's just gonna take a little time for them 642 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 1: to figure out their games. I think Taylor Fritz is 643 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: a guy that was actually probably he was probably the 644 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:54,600 Speaker 1: most mature tennis wise coming in because he's got sort 645 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 1: of tennis family tennis pedigree and he was really good 646 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,080 Speaker 1: and still is really good with the intangibles for him, 647 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 1: he's just got to get his movement a little better, 648 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:05,720 Speaker 1: make sure he's in great shape, and it seems like 649 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:07,760 Speaker 1: he's the type that's gonna work to make sure those 650 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 1: things happen. Tommy Paul I didn't know as much about, 651 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 1: but he's got tremendous talent. The little I have watched 652 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 1: him play man, He's got some talent. So that then 653 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 1: it's just a matter of harnessing that. And I think 654 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 1: he had some growing pains in terms of growing up amateuring, 655 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 1: and it seems like all the guys are are helping 656 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: him with that. I think that's where the success breeding success. 657 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 1: Knowing that those other guys can do it and seeing 658 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 1: his level of talent, and when he sees these other 659 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 1: guys succeeding that he knows maybe he's got as much 660 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 1: or more talent than them. Well hey, that's the kick 661 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 1: in the butt that you might need to say, all right, 662 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: that's enough of you know, the extracurriculars, and it's time 663 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 1: to focus on the court and be ready for this. 664 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, I think social media and you know, the 665 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 3: money now in tennis, it's sort of changed some people, 666 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 3: the ones. You know. I think you're going to get 667 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 3: people that have the desire and the passion that they 668 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,719 Speaker 3: want to be great that will never change with money. 669 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,280 Speaker 3: But it's Yeah, some of the guys and some of 670 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 3: the girls, they just you know, they're happy sort of 671 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 3: making a good living and not putting themselves on the line. 672 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,960 Speaker 3: So hopefully one of those guys or a couple of 673 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 3: them will step up and say, yeah, I really want this, 674 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,480 Speaker 3: because as you said, tennis is not as I said, 675 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 3: tennis isn't the sprint anymore. You have a long career 676 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 3: ahead of you. 677 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think I think you're right. I was 678 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 1: gonna say, another retired player I was talking to have 679 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 1: talked about some of these guys that are content, not 680 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 1: the American guys who's talking about a different a different player, 681 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,240 Speaker 1: but content being thirty in the world because he made 682 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 1: a million and a half two million dollars that year, 683 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 1: so he's totally fine and doesn't need to push any further. 684 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 1: And I think that is unfortunately the case, with the 685 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 1: fact that the money has gone up exponentially, which is 686 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:48,960 Speaker 1: great for the game. I'm never never upset that athletes 687 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: get money. I'm always happy that they're getting paid. And 688 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 1: I think that the difference, like you said, is that 689 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 1: will never change the greats because the greats aren't pushed 690 00:30:56,120 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 1: by money. Novak Rafa, Roger Andy Murray, Serena being. They're 691 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 1: not pushed by having to make the having to make 692 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 1: money in each each event or what they're doing. They're 693 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 1: pushed by history. They're pushed by themselves. They're pushing themselves 694 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 1: to be the greatest they can be, and that's where 695 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 1: it is. 696 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:14,520 Speaker 4: There is definitely separation. 697 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 3: I think also one thing to state about that that 698 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 3: was prior they had that instinct and that want pride 699 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:23,480 Speaker 3: of being really wealthy. Because all of those players that 700 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 3: you mentioned are all really wealthy now and don't need 701 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,840 Speaker 3: to win another match by that bills yeh, but they 702 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 3: would like that pride of winning, you know, and having few. 703 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, they have that mindset, and I think that's something 704 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 1: that's very difficult to be taught. It's not something that 705 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 1: you know, it's just something that's inside a lot of players. 706 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 1: And so that's inside the grates, I think. So the 707 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 1: grates will never change no matter how much money is 708 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 1: in the sport or taken out of the sport. The 709 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 1: greats will never change. It's those ones that are in 710 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,960 Speaker 1: the middle that you can possibly see complacency, And to me, 711 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 1: that's a shame. If you see complacency because you know 712 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:57,960 Speaker 1: they're not they're not going to ever get to that 713 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 1: top level. And yes, it's easy to it's easy to 714 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,560 Speaker 1: kind of sort of sust them out as to who's 715 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 1: who's who's not going to be one of the greats. 716 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 1: If you see that, if you see that mindset from 717 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,360 Speaker 1: early on of like being just totally content, it's like, okay, well, 718 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 1: you know, if you're a coach, you could I mean 719 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 1: I would think, not that I'm looking to get into 720 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 1: coaching or anything, but if I was, if I was 721 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 1: a coach and I saw that, I'd be like, Okay, 722 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 1: I'm not going to waste my time. You know, you can. 723 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 1: You can take any coach in the world and they 724 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 1: can keep you at fifty in the world, eighty in 725 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,520 Speaker 1: the world and make a good living even though you 726 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 1: because you have the talent to be top ten in 727 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,640 Speaker 1: the world, but you're content being fifty. That would just 728 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 1: be too frustrating as a coach to deal with. 729 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, I could see you being a coach and getting 730 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 3: frustrated with that because you would run. You'd still be 731 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 3: running for the ball probably more than they would. 732 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:45,120 Speaker 4: Absolutely go back. 733 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 3: To your career a little bit, you know, is the 734 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 3: one match that if you could, I kind of stought 735 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 3: already got answer to this, But if there was one 736 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 3: match you could go back to, because she had such 737 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 3: a great career, but well, boy did you have some 738 00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 3: ups and downs physically. But if there's one match last 739 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 3: you go back to that you could redo, which one 740 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 3: would it be? 741 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,479 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think the the easiest answers at 742 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:08,520 Speaker 1: agacy match in the course of the Open. 743 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,320 Speaker 4: I mean I don't think I even need to replay 744 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:10,840 Speaker 4: the whole match. 745 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 1: I need to replay two points from six all in 746 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 1: the in the tiebreaker, we were you know, fifth set 747 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,240 Speaker 1: tiebreaker quarter finals of the US Open, and the winner 748 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:23,120 Speaker 1: played Robbie Janepri And you know, I was playing at 749 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 1: that point. I had just come back from a serious 750 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 1: injury and illness, and so I was a wild card 751 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 1: into the event actually and making it to the quarters 752 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,720 Speaker 1: beat Rafa, So for me it was it was a 753 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 1: dream run sort of. And then playing Andre you know, 754 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 1: another fan favorite and one of the legends of the game, 755 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 1: so it was it was such a great atmosphere and 756 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,040 Speaker 1: then it just came down to him making two unbelievable 757 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 1: shots to finish off the match and uh me getting 758 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 1: a little tight. I served for the match at at 759 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:56,040 Speaker 1: five to four, and the fifth he, I mean, one 760 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 1: of the best returners ever, and I served wasn't exactly 761 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 1: my my huge web been, so I didn't didn't just 762 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:04,360 Speaker 1: close it out with a nice easy game. He came back, 763 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,280 Speaker 1: and I would have loved to have won that one. 764 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,680 Speaker 1: But you know, looking back on it, I think about 765 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 1: that a lot. You know, when I talked to buddies 766 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 1: that you know, talk to me about it, or tennis 767 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:14,360 Speaker 1: players that tell me about it, and I think, so 768 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,479 Speaker 1: it gets brought up a lot, But I really don't 769 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,319 Speaker 1: have regrets about the way I played. I really did 770 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,560 Speaker 1: my best. I think about the tiebreaker and how many 771 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:25,960 Speaker 1: winners were hitting that tiebreaker and how few errors were hit. 772 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:31,520 Speaker 1: It was just us playing pretty darn good tennis, And yeah, 773 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:33,160 Speaker 1: I wish I could have closed it out and had 774 00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:35,360 Speaker 1: an opportunity to play my good friend Robbi Janepri and 775 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:39,279 Speaker 1: the Sammy's for one of us to go basically on 776 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,160 Speaker 1: that walk, that that last mile walk to getting slaughtered 777 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,840 Speaker 1: by by Roger when Roger was absolutely dominant in the finals. 778 00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:48,360 Speaker 1: But it still would have been fun to be a 779 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 1: part of that and being a grand Slam Sammy or 780 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 1: a Grand Slam final, and you know Andre deserved at 781 00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:55,520 Speaker 1: that time. Though. 782 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,680 Speaker 3: Okay, so I'll flip you too. One of the times 783 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,400 Speaker 3: that you had an amazing memory, and that was obviously 784 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,440 Speaker 3: Davis Cup final when you won both of your singles matches. Like, 785 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,960 Speaker 3: how incredible was that moment to be? Because I know 786 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:14,840 Speaker 3: you're a team guy, even though you picked a sport 787 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:16,759 Speaker 3: because you wanted to be an individual and you didn't 788 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,920 Speaker 3: want to have a loser team. Yeah, because that's what 789 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,239 Speaker 3: I got out of this so far, but like that 790 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:25,840 Speaker 3: was not a loser team that you're on, And how 791 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,960 Speaker 3: amazing was that moment? And what did it mean to 792 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:31,200 Speaker 3: you to represent your country as you did it? Obviously 793 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:35,719 Speaker 3: at the Olympics too. Won't bring that match up, Yeah, 794 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,280 Speaker 3: but like how great was that week? 795 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:39,160 Speaker 1: You know? 796 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:40,080 Speaker 4: That week was? 797 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,920 Speaker 1: That was amazing. We had a huge team. Normally you 798 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:46,279 Speaker 1: take just the team and maybe one practice partner, two 799 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,759 Speaker 1: practice partners, and we had so many of the guys 800 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,480 Speaker 1: in because it was the finals. Marty was there, Donald Young, 801 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:55,359 Speaker 1: John Isner. We had a great group of guys and 802 00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:58,560 Speaker 1: so we had a lot of fun. But then everything 803 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 1: we had done to get up to that point was 804 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:03,560 Speaker 1: so solidified by the fact that Andy won a match 805 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:06,719 Speaker 1: against Tursonoff who had beaten him the year before and 806 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,319 Speaker 1: the in the Semis on clay in Russia, and then 807 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,879 Speaker 1: he beats him, and then I play Usuni who had 808 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,840 Speaker 1: beaten me as well on the clay, and so I 809 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,640 Speaker 1: got and it was a four step match, three tiebreakers, 810 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:22,760 Speaker 1: and so it was. It definitely could have gone either way, 811 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,200 Speaker 1: but to come through that way, and it's just to 812 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 1: make it so that you know, you never know what 813 00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:28,919 Speaker 1: can happen. So if I were to lose that one, 814 00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,400 Speaker 1: the Brians were so often just a lock. But if 815 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:33,759 Speaker 1: they're up, if we're up to one, you know we're 816 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:35,479 Speaker 1: relying on Andy again. 817 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:37,000 Speaker 4: And Andy had been such a great closer. 818 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:38,840 Speaker 1: He was unbelievable for us when he was in the 819 00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:41,400 Speaker 1: position to h to close out the tie. But we 820 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:43,240 Speaker 1: don't want it. Didn't want to put him in that position. 821 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,680 Speaker 1: So then to have Andy win, me win, and then 822 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 1: the Bryan's close it out. Now this was a team effort, 823 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,480 Speaker 1: the whole, all all four of us participate, all four 824 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:53,799 Speaker 1: of us got got the job done like we needed to. 825 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:57,080 Speaker 1: And then to celebrate that Saturday night, tons of my 826 00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:59,600 Speaker 1: friends had flown in from the East Coast. My mom 827 00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:03,200 Speaker 1: was there, my brother was there. We had actually two 828 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:04,680 Speaker 1: of my brothers were there, so we had I mean, 829 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,560 Speaker 1: we had an unbelievable time, and I was I was 830 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 1: really proud of that, and so representing my country was 831 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:15,000 Speaker 1: always an absolute honor. I people, oftentimes anytime I'm doing 832 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,360 Speaker 1: something now ask if I ever got nervous playing tennis, 833 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:21,839 Speaker 1: And truthfully, I never got nervous in any individual match. 834 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:22,359 Speaker 4: I ever played. 835 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:28,800 Speaker 1: US Open, no nerves, Wimbledon, no nerves, but then Davis 836 00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:32,480 Speaker 1: Cup and Olympics where the two times I had nerves. 837 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:34,840 Speaker 1: The first time I played Davis Cup, I had absolute 838 00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,239 Speaker 1: butterflies in my stomach for the entire first set. I 839 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:40,600 Speaker 1: didn't know what was going on. And it was just 840 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,960 Speaker 1: because when they're saying advantage USA, gain USA, and you 841 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:47,239 Speaker 1: look over at the team on the side, it just 842 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:50,120 Speaker 1: it just had a different a different feel. I was 843 00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 1: also a little a little crazy with the fact that 844 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,120 Speaker 1: the first time I played Davis Cup was a match 845 00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:58,000 Speaker 1: that was postponed because of nine to eleven, so it 846 00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:00,479 Speaker 1: was just a couple months later in the state after 847 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,640 Speaker 1: nine to eleven. The atmosphere in the crowd was so patriotic, 848 00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:06,560 Speaker 1: and so it was it was really special to me 849 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,279 Speaker 1: every time I put on that uniform. I don't save 850 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:11,000 Speaker 1: a ton of stuff for my career, but I do 851 00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:15,279 Speaker 1: still have one. I still have the Davis Cup uniform, 852 00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:17,600 Speaker 1: and I still have the Davis Cup. That's the one, 853 00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:20,400 Speaker 1: the one trophy that absolutely means means so much to me. 854 00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:25,160 Speaker 1: So I always felt special with that. And yeah, and 855 00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:26,719 Speaker 1: then the same thing with the Olympics. You know, you're 856 00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:28,640 Speaker 1: going over there, and I only played in one Olympics, 857 00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:30,960 Speaker 1: but it was it was really an honor to be 858 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:33,360 Speaker 1: there and to be around so many other great athletes 859 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:35,839 Speaker 1: and to see that there was it wasn't just the 860 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:37,839 Speaker 1: tennis community that was excited about it. 861 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:39,320 Speaker 4: It was the entire sports community. 862 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,239 Speaker 1: And the support you got from the rowing team, from 863 00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:45,960 Speaker 1: the cycling team, from the air rifle team, whatever teams 864 00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:48,319 Speaker 1: are out there. They're all supportive of you, and you're 865 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,279 Speaker 1: supportive of them, and I felt like that was really 866 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:51,160 Speaker 1: special as well. 867 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:54,319 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's cool, and I always tell people that when 868 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:56,239 Speaker 3: it comes to the Olympics, I'm like, go watch those 869 00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:58,520 Speaker 3: tennis matches and don't tell me that the players don't 870 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 3: want to be there as tennis players, because for me, 871 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:03,879 Speaker 3: like playing again, it's the most nervous I've ever been, 872 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:05,759 Speaker 3: was representing my country and I did it. I got 873 00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:07,520 Speaker 3: to do it four times, and I got to do 874 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:09,440 Speaker 3: it in Sydney, and it's the most nervous I've ever 875 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:11,000 Speaker 3: been in my whole life. I mean I literally did 876 00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:14,680 Speaker 3: shaken until like match point. Yeah, I want to shift 877 00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,200 Speaker 3: a little bit like you you spoke about some I 878 00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:19,680 Speaker 3: spoke a little bit earlier about some tough moments in 879 00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:22,920 Speaker 3: your life. I want to know was it was it 880 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,600 Speaker 3: hard at like breaking literally breaking your neck running into 881 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:28,920 Speaker 3: a net post or almost having your neck broken by 882 00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:31,440 Speaker 3: somebody outside of the Grand Hire in New York. Because 883 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:34,239 Speaker 3: you've had two pretty traumatic well you've actually had three 884 00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:37,239 Speaker 3: because you also had shingles once, right, Yeah, Yeah, I 885 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:40,560 Speaker 3: remember going to a party and like walking in Jill Schwaller, 886 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:44,919 Speaker 3: our buddy, and like your whole face is like completely numb. 887 00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:46,640 Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know how much people know about 888 00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:48,960 Speaker 3: you getting shingles, but that was a terrible time of 889 00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:53,359 Speaker 3: your life and you broke your neck. Like go through 890 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,920 Speaker 3: those period of times where you broke your neck and shingles, 891 00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:57,000 Speaker 3: and then we'll get to New York. 892 00:39:57,520 --> 00:39:58,040 Speaker 4: What happened. 893 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,360 Speaker 1: So out of those three, by far the most painful 894 00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,920 Speaker 1: of shingles. I mean, if people are out there and 895 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,680 Speaker 1: don't know much about shingles, don't get it. 896 00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:07,440 Speaker 4: Everything. 897 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:09,759 Speaker 1: Again, I know there's a vaccine for it now, so 898 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:12,320 Speaker 1: try to do that. But it's is the most painful 899 00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:14,440 Speaker 1: thing I've I've probably ever experienced in my life. I 900 00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:16,600 Speaker 1: also happened to get pretty unlucky that I got shingles 901 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:18,680 Speaker 1: in my facial nerve. It can hit any nerve in 902 00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:21,080 Speaker 1: your body and it's painful anywhere, but when it's in 903 00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,319 Speaker 1: your facial nerve, it's really bad because it messes up 904 00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:25,680 Speaker 1: with your your inner ear, so it messes up with 905 00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:28,840 Speaker 1: your balance, your vision, your taste, and everything. So that 906 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:30,719 Speaker 1: was just bad luck, and it was it was all 907 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:32,640 Speaker 1: brought on by stress. It was right after I broken 908 00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:35,680 Speaker 1: my neck and then my father passed away, and I 909 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:38,960 Speaker 1: was just I wasn't sleeping, I mean for probably a 910 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:43,040 Speaker 1: week straight and just not not myself, missing my dad, 911 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:45,920 Speaker 1: and so my body just reacted that way. 912 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:47,200 Speaker 4: So that was extremely painful. 913 00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:47,560 Speaker 1: That was. 914 00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:52,719 Speaker 4: There was nothing else like that pain. But then the. 915 00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:54,640 Speaker 1: Break of my neck and all that that that led 916 00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:56,799 Speaker 1: me It's It's funny that you know those are kind 917 00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:58,960 Speaker 1: of grouped together, is it? Because they they led me 918 00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:01,360 Speaker 1: to my two books that I wrote. One of them, 919 00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:04,480 Speaker 1: What happened to Me with shingles and bringing my neck 920 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,400 Speaker 1: and my father passing away. That kind of caused me 921 00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:10,520 Speaker 1: to write a book about my comeback and getting back 922 00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,080 Speaker 1: on tour. And people asked me, are you ever going 923 00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,560 Speaker 1: to write another book? I said, no, If this is 924 00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:17,000 Speaker 1: what I have to go through to write a book, 925 00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:18,920 Speaker 1: I don't ever want to write another book again in 926 00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:21,839 Speaker 1: my life. I'd rather I'd much rather be living anonymously 927 00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:23,600 Speaker 1: and not think about it and not have to go 928 00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:25,640 Speaker 1: through this. And then what happened to me in New 929 00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:27,759 Speaker 1: York City again, thrown on the ground and tackled by 930 00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:31,680 Speaker 1: a police officer, that sort of It didn't directly forced 931 00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:33,640 Speaker 1: me to write another book, but it got me thinking 932 00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:37,279 Speaker 1: about activists and sports and how much sports plays a 933 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,800 Speaker 1: role in society. Contrary to what some idiot talking heads 934 00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,120 Speaker 1: want to say about shut up and dribble or stay 935 00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:46,080 Speaker 1: in your lane or yeah, stick to sports. You know, 936 00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:49,920 Speaker 1: it's had so much of an effect on society at 937 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:52,920 Speaker 1: large that I wanted to write a book about some 938 00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:54,840 Speaker 1: of the athletes that have that have made a difference 939 00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:58,719 Speaker 1: and have stood up for what they believed in. And 940 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:01,799 Speaker 1: so that was why why I wrote another book was 941 00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:03,319 Speaker 1: because of what happened to me in New York. 942 00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:04,319 Speaker 4: And it was. 943 00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:10,080 Speaker 1: It was just it was which by the way, I 944 00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:13,520 Speaker 1: titled it before I wrote it. And that's uh, talking 945 00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:15,680 Speaker 1: about pressure that puts so much pressure on me because 946 00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:17,560 Speaker 1: one of my favorite books of all time is Days 947 00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:20,640 Speaker 1: of Grace by Arthur Ash. So I named it that, 948 00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:23,040 Speaker 1: and that to me told me, I better make this 949 00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:24,040 Speaker 1: good because I don't wanna. 950 00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:25,000 Speaker 4: I don't want to do uh. 951 00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,000 Speaker 1: I don't want to pay homage to Arthur Ash and 952 00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:29,400 Speaker 1: then and then write a write a crappy book. So 953 00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:32,920 Speaker 1: I did my best to make it au, to make 954 00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:36,360 Speaker 1: him prouder, to make a genie his widow proud of 955 00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:38,120 Speaker 1: of taking off on that title. 956 00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:41,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, obviously nobody knows, which I don't know if you 957 00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:44,160 Speaker 3: if you don't know, you've been living under a rock. 958 00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:46,279 Speaker 3: But what happened to you obviously New York was you know, 959 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:50,400 Speaker 3: mistaken identity taken down very violently, and you know that 960 00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:52,160 Speaker 3: ensued you suing the. 961 00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:52,560 Speaker 1: N y p D. 962 00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:54,640 Speaker 4: And that's the one thing I didn't do IS. 963 00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:56,680 Speaker 1: I didn't sue is I I waived my right to 964 00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:00,560 Speaker 1: sue for them to create a fellowship. So there's a 965 00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:03,279 Speaker 1: James Blake Fellowship now in New York that has a 966 00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:05,640 Speaker 1: fellow on staff to help with those kind of cases, 967 00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:09,759 Speaker 1: to help with police brutality cases because they're so underserved. 968 00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:13,799 Speaker 1: The lawyers there are completely overworked and none of them 969 00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:17,239 Speaker 1: are able to give the time really necessary for each 970 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:20,560 Speaker 1: one of those cases to be investigated. And that was 971 00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:22,520 Speaker 1: what I was always sort of fighting for, was the 972 00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:26,160 Speaker 1: accountability of police officers that can get away with this 973 00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:29,560 Speaker 1: on a daily basis, and knowing what I knew, I 974 00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:31,959 Speaker 1: initially wasn't going to speak up about it, but then 975 00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,560 Speaker 1: realizing that I actually have a voice, with the fact 976 00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:37,480 Speaker 1: that the next morning I was on GMA and I 977 00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:41,400 Speaker 1: was able to be in the newspapers every day talking 978 00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:43,560 Speaker 1: about it. Most people, if I was James Blake, the 979 00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:46,960 Speaker 1: plumber going off to work, that wouldn't have ever happened. 980 00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:49,480 Speaker 4: Nothing would have happened. No, there had been zero ramifications. 981 00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:52,320 Speaker 1: They probably wouldn't have been put in a report because 982 00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:54,560 Speaker 1: before they knew who I was, they weren't going to 983 00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:54,840 Speaker 1: do that. 984 00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:56,959 Speaker 3: They were slapping you on the back, saying sorry buddy, 985 00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:58,480 Speaker 3: yeah yeah, and. 986 00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:00,960 Speaker 1: Move on and do that again. And they didn't care. 987 00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:04,080 Speaker 1: There's I mean, zero ramification. So that's where I wanted 988 00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:06,880 Speaker 1: to speak up and make sure they're held accountable. And 989 00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:08,680 Speaker 1: then that's when I ran into the fact that the 990 00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:14,239 Speaker 1: system is just so broken and just out of line. 991 00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:16,960 Speaker 1: It's it's completely out of whack because it's the police 992 00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:21,680 Speaker 1: policing themselves and they're the punishment does not fit the crime. 993 00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:24,759 Speaker 1: To do what he did on camera his fifth time 994 00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,600 Speaker 1: doing something like that or worse and him only lose 995 00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:32,000 Speaker 1: five vacation days for that. It's not it's the punishment 996 00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:34,840 Speaker 1: doesn't fit the crime. You think about any other profession 997 00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:37,920 Speaker 1: and if they were to, you know, grossly mishandle a 998 00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:41,800 Speaker 1: situation the way that that was done and not be 999 00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:43,960 Speaker 1: apologetic about it, and that'd be the fifth time you're 1000 00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:45,640 Speaker 1: doing it. I mean, what other job do you get 1001 00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:47,720 Speaker 1: to keep your job? I mean, I don't get how 1002 00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,440 Speaker 1: what they're looking for or what it would take to 1003 00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:53,840 Speaker 1: actually fire a police officer with the unions being so strong, 1004 00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,239 Speaker 1: And that's where I did everything I could to speak 1005 00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:58,319 Speaker 1: up about that. And you know, I was screaming about 1006 00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:02,120 Speaker 1: that for five years before sadly what happened to George 1007 00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:04,200 Speaker 1: Floyd happened and out being on the public, you know, 1008 00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:07,839 Speaker 1: on the public's radar for everyone to see as nonchalant 1009 00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:11,440 Speaker 1: as those police officers were doing that, as they were, uh, 1010 00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:14,239 Speaker 1: squeezing the life out of a human being and doing 1011 00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:17,879 Speaker 1: that without much care, without anyone batting an eyelash, and 1012 00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:19,800 Speaker 1: then for it to be. 1013 00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:22,880 Speaker 3: I was going to ask you how when that happened, 1014 00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:26,840 Speaker 3: how much did that just trigger what you went through? 1015 00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:31,160 Speaker 3: But knowing that this man does and what and this 1016 00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:33,600 Speaker 3: similar thing happened to you, the guy pined you down, 1017 00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:35,960 Speaker 3: knee on your back, like the whole thing, Like, how 1018 00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:37,239 Speaker 3: much did that trigger in you? 1019 00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:39,799 Speaker 4: It was so crazy. I didn't sleep that night. And 1020 00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:41,640 Speaker 4: so what happened was I ended up. I was up. 1021 00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:44,240 Speaker 1: I was up that night two three in the morning, 1022 00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:46,200 Speaker 1: and I just I started writing and I wrote a 1023 00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:51,279 Speaker 1: op ed went into USA today, I believe, And it 1024 00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:53,200 Speaker 1: was just talking about because I went through kind of 1025 00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:57,120 Speaker 1: a roller coaster emotions because I was I was so saddened. 1026 00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:00,000 Speaker 1: Of course, you know, you think about the fact that happened, 1027 00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:02,200 Speaker 1: You think about the fact that it happens far too often. 1028 00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:04,280 Speaker 1: I mean, one time is too often, but how many 1029 00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:06,920 Speaker 1: more times it's happened in the past five years and 1030 00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:10,319 Speaker 1: past twenty years, thirty years. But so you think about that, 1031 00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:12,880 Speaker 1: and my thought initially was like, this is so tragic, 1032 00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:16,120 Speaker 1: And what I thought was gonna happen was the world 1033 00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:20,040 Speaker 1: was going to be outraged for one day, maybe two days, 1034 00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:24,120 Speaker 1: and then a new cycle would happen, you know, some 1035 00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:29,000 Speaker 1: someone would say something outrageous inflammatory, something else inflammatory would happen, 1036 00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:31,440 Speaker 1: and the new cycle would completely spin and shift and 1037 00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:33,680 Speaker 1: there'd be something different going on. And that was what 1038 00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:35,520 Speaker 1: I was starting to write about, was how saddened I 1039 00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:38,560 Speaker 1: was that this is now going to be just another name. 1040 00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:42,680 Speaker 1: This is gonna be another Terrence Crutcher, Alton Sterling, Mike Brown, 1041 00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:46,759 Speaker 1: another case of you know, this shouldn't have happened, but 1042 00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:48,920 Speaker 1: we're gonna move on and nothing is going to be 1043 00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:51,719 Speaker 1: done about it. And then I was so encouraged by 1044 00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:54,719 Speaker 1: the fact that people weren't gonna let People are not 1045 00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:56,799 Speaker 1: gonna let this die, people are not gonna let this die. 1046 00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:58,680 Speaker 1: With George Floyd, he was going to have more of 1047 00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:01,799 Speaker 1: an influence. I guess this was so wrong this was 1048 00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:07,480 Speaker 1: so obviously a case of mishandling of justice. So and 1049 00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:09,640 Speaker 1: the other thing that was really encouraging to me was 1050 00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:11,920 Speaker 1: that this wasn't just the black community now that was 1051 00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:14,359 Speaker 1: speaking up. This was if you looked at some I mean, 1052 00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:17,200 Speaker 1: I'm in I'm in Salona Beach, California right now, and 1053 00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:19,759 Speaker 1: I went down there's protests just down the road here 1054 00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:21,360 Speaker 1: and it was probably. 1055 00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:22,080 Speaker 4: Seventy percent white. 1056 00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:24,680 Speaker 1: And I heard about so many other protests in LA 1057 00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:27,120 Speaker 1: where it's the same thing, where it was completely mixed. 1058 00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:29,960 Speaker 1: It wasn't just the black community. And that made me 1059 00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:32,680 Speaker 1: so encouraged because that's what was missing for so long. 1060 00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:35,120 Speaker 1: I mean, Colin Kaepernick was kneeling about this four or 1061 00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:38,120 Speaker 1: five years ago. People were talking about this in the 1062 00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:40,440 Speaker 1: black and brown community since I was a kid. But 1063 00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:43,720 Speaker 1: now the majority was speaking up and we're saying, Okay, 1064 00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:46,040 Speaker 1: this is wrong, we're realizing this was I went on. 1065 00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:49,000 Speaker 1: It was on a zoom calls and conference calls and 1066 00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:51,920 Speaker 1: talking to high school kids and talking to college kids 1067 00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:54,600 Speaker 1: and what can we do and how can we change 1068 00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:57,279 Speaker 1: this behavior? And that was to me so encouraging. So 1069 00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:59,800 Speaker 1: I was just thinking about how different it's going to 1070 00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:02,920 Speaker 1: be now. That the majority is aware of this, and 1071 00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:06,839 Speaker 1: I feel like my case really affected had that same 1072 00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:09,759 Speaker 1: effect on such a small group on you know, the 1073 00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:13,279 Speaker 1: Marty fishes, on the white tennis players that I was 1074 00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:17,279 Speaker 1: around that didn't see me as someone that this could 1075 00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:19,759 Speaker 1: happen to, and then it happens to me, and it's 1076 00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:22,040 Speaker 1: almost like your eyes are now open, Like wait a minute, 1077 00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:23,799 Speaker 1: you guys really do think about this all the time. 1078 00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:25,879 Speaker 1: This isn't just like a punchline in a movie where 1079 00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:28,520 Speaker 1: you're getting followed around in a store or where they're 1080 00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:31,080 Speaker 1: thinking they're gonna pull you over, because you know, when 1081 00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:33,240 Speaker 1: I used to have dreads and I'm driving a nice car, 1082 00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:36,399 Speaker 1: like you're actually scared of this stuff happening every day. 1083 00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:39,480 Speaker 1: And so it was eye opening to my friends, but 1084 00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:42,480 Speaker 1: it wasn't as eye opening to people because they didn't 1085 00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:45,359 Speaker 1: know me. You know, no one in my you know, 1086 00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:49,600 Speaker 1: in in my world or my community was like shocked 1087 00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:54,319 Speaker 1: or like dismayed when say, Alton Sterling got killed because 1088 00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:56,279 Speaker 1: they didn't know him personally, so they think, oh, you know, 1089 00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:58,280 Speaker 1: he shouldn't have been out at four am. He shouldn't 1090 00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:00,880 Speaker 1: have been here in front of this bad and there's 1091 00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:03,440 Speaker 1: too much of that victim blaming, whereas if you watch 1092 00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:05,959 Speaker 1: what happened to George Floyd, he's crying for his mom 1093 00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:08,120 Speaker 1: and he's got a knee on his neck that could 1094 00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:11,759 Speaker 1: so easily be removed. And let this man live and 1095 00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:14,279 Speaker 1: let him face punishment for whatever he did for passing 1096 00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:17,480 Speaker 1: account for twenty dollars bill. Okay, he needs to pay 1097 00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:19,880 Speaker 1: a fine, he needs to go to counseling, or go 1098 00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:22,120 Speaker 1: to jail for a short amount of time, whatever needs 1099 00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:24,480 Speaker 1: to happen. He doesn't need to be killed. And so 1100 00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:27,040 Speaker 1: I think it opened so many eyes and got the 1101 00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:30,480 Speaker 1: majority thinking and speaking about it that it was really encouraging. 1102 00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:34,160 Speaker 1: Of course, some of the protests were taken over by 1103 00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:37,719 Speaker 1: looters and rioters, and that was horrible and unfortunate, and 1104 00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:41,040 Speaker 1: it didn't it didn't convey the real message. But I 1105 00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:45,320 Speaker 1: think the message was still there and has continued because 1106 00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:47,120 Speaker 1: I see so many people that are that are thinking 1107 00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:48,200 Speaker 1: differently about the world. 1108 00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:52,040 Speaker 3: So on that note, then with the Tennis, how do 1109 00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:56,920 Speaker 3: you feel like tennis has taken the baton of trying 1110 00:49:56,920 --> 00:50:01,479 Speaker 3: to have racial justice and and how do you feel 1111 00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:03,919 Speaker 3: about it, particularly after what happened at the US Open 1112 00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:06,520 Speaker 3: last year with Naomi and what do you think this 1113 00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:07,400 Speaker 3: needs to go with this? 1114 00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:11,279 Speaker 1: So I think Naomi did an amazing thing, shutting down 1115 00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:14,680 Speaker 1: the entire sport for a day. You know, that's unheard of, 1116 00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:19,160 Speaker 1: and I think it was sort of on the backs 1117 00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:21,520 Speaker 1: of the Milwaukee Bucks sitting out in their playoff game 1118 00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:24,680 Speaker 1: that really opened the eyes of the NBA. The NBA, 1119 00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:28,080 Speaker 1: of course, being over seventy percent black, it's a little 1120 00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:31,680 Speaker 1: more expected, but it's still impressive that they did that, 1121 00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:33,719 Speaker 1: and then Naomi the next day to say I'm not 1122 00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:35,880 Speaker 1: playing my semi finals and it is ready to forfeit. 1123 00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:40,920 Speaker 1: It was absolutely incredible. The atp WTA and if immediately 1124 00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:43,360 Speaker 1: getting on board, you know how impossible it is to 1125 00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:46,640 Speaker 1: get those three to actually agree on anything, and all 1126 00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:49,000 Speaker 1: three of them agreeing right away to be to take 1127 00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:53,480 Speaker 1: the day off was truly a sense of hey, she's 1128 00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:56,440 Speaker 1: putting this to you guys to force you to make 1129 00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:58,880 Speaker 1: this decision. And I'm glad they made the right decision. 1130 00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:01,160 Speaker 1: And she's continued to use her voice. I mean, we've 1131 00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:03,319 Speaker 1: seen her grow up in front of our eyes. Really 1132 00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:06,000 Speaker 1: impressive that she's taking a stand. And I think there's 1133 00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:08,799 Speaker 1: a difference in tennis with how international it is with 1134 00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,919 Speaker 1: how much this can go into where there are other 1135 00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:15,080 Speaker 1: there are other countries where where racism is is somewhat 1136 00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:17,480 Speaker 1: in different forms. I mean, you know, in Australia a 1137 00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:21,640 Speaker 1: lot of it has been directed towards Aboriginals. In Europe, 1138 00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:25,520 Speaker 1: you know, there's the history of Germany and of the 1139 00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:28,480 Speaker 1: Holocaust and so many things going on. And in Europe 1140 00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:30,759 Speaker 1: and Africa obviously we've seen so much with the you know, 1141 00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:33,319 Speaker 1: South African with the apartheid, and you know, there's so 1142 00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:38,000 Speaker 1: many different dynamics where racism has has played a role. 1143 00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:40,960 Speaker 1: And if there is a if there is one sport, 1144 00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:44,239 Speaker 1: I mean maybe soccer is also as as international. But 1145 00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:47,800 Speaker 1: for me I'm biased. Obviously, I grew up playing tennis 1146 00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:50,280 Speaker 1: and loved it. I think it's the most international sport 1147 00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:53,640 Speaker 1: there is, and it's also one of the most the 1148 00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:57,239 Speaker 1: biggest meritocracies, where you do well, you get further, you 1149 00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:00,000 Speaker 1: win your match, you go, you advance, you get paid 1150 00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:02,160 Speaker 1: more money, you get more points, you get ranked higher, 1151 00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:06,160 Speaker 1: and so I've always loved that about it, and I 1152 00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:09,600 Speaker 1: think this can be hopefully the players can see that 1153 00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:12,879 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter what you look like in the locker room, 1154 00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:15,319 Speaker 1: what you act like you go out and you play 1155 00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:18,960 Speaker 1: the game, and that's where you should get your merit from, 1156 00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:22,359 Speaker 1: is how you play the game. I hope Naomi will 1157 00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:24,800 Speaker 1: continue to speak up. I hope there can be something 1158 00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:31,040 Speaker 1: done about the systemic racism in our country in the 1159 00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:36,719 Speaker 1: sport I've felt, I've actually felt pretty good about the 1160 00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:39,040 Speaker 1: way the sport was going in the right direction. I 1161 00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:41,799 Speaker 1: don't think it's just like anything. I don't think it's 1162 00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:44,360 Speaker 1: all the way there. I mean, I definitely think there's 1163 00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:48,640 Speaker 1: treatment that you know, especially in certain countries where you 1164 00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:52,759 Speaker 1: don't want to be, where Serena Venus myself maybe didn't 1165 00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:55,319 Speaker 1: get the same kind of treatment. But I do think 1166 00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:57,640 Speaker 1: it's getting much better and Naomi speaking about that, and 1167 00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:00,919 Speaker 1: I love the fact that she's speaking up. I don't 1168 00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:07,120 Speaker 1: know a specific rule or change that needs to happen immediately, 1169 00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:10,319 Speaker 1: but I love the fact that we're doing something as 1170 00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:12,200 Speaker 1: an international sport. Yeah. 1171 00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:15,080 Speaker 3: I actually love the fact that Naomi is becoming one 1172 00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:17,360 Speaker 3: of the highest paid, if not I think I believe 1173 00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:21,000 Speaker 3: she's the highest paid athlete female athlete in the world. 1174 00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:24,319 Speaker 3: And I think the fact that she has done this, 1175 00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:27,960 Speaker 3: as we said, spoken up about and gotten behind this 1176 00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:31,520 Speaker 3: movement and yet sponsorship is coming her way like left 1177 00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:34,120 Speaker 3: and right. I know it's because she's also an unbelievable 1178 00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:37,080 Speaker 3: champion and she's winning, and she's young and she's beautiful. 1179 00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:40,080 Speaker 3: But I think it's amazing that she is taking this stand, 1180 00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:43,759 Speaker 3: but yet is still getting supported by major sponsors that 1181 00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:47,160 Speaker 3: are out there. That is super important. And I applaud 1182 00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:50,799 Speaker 3: those those companies for getting behind her even with her 1183 00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:53,920 Speaker 3: taking this stance. You know, I don't have that much 1184 00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:55,680 Speaker 3: more time with you because you've been so great, but 1185 00:53:56,560 --> 00:53:59,280 Speaker 3: you are going into a role of being tournament director 1186 00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:02,919 Speaker 3: of Miami. So how do you juggle like your own 1187 00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:05,239 Speaker 3: personal things that you would like to get changed, and 1188 00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:09,520 Speaker 3: then having to deal with tennis players and television and 1189 00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:12,520 Speaker 3: and and I mean the amount of stuff that tournament directors. 1190 00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:14,759 Speaker 3: I mean, you must feel so badly for someone like 1191 00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:18,840 Speaker 3: Craig Tiley right now, who yah just before the Austraight 1192 00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:21,240 Speaker 3: and Open and I don't know when it's going to play. 1193 00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:24,799 Speaker 3: But how how different is your thought process now as 1194 00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:27,120 Speaker 3: a tournament treking like oh man, I wish I wasn't 1195 00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:29,920 Speaker 3: such a dick sometimes to these tournament directors. 1196 00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:34,200 Speaker 1: I definitely have thought that since being a Torrent director 1197 00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:36,640 Speaker 1: and now it's going on four years now, I think 1198 00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:40,680 Speaker 1: it's It's definitely made me realize that I wish I 1199 00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:43,520 Speaker 1: had some of the knowledge that I have now back 1200 00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:45,160 Speaker 1: when I was on tour, and maybe I wouldn't have 1201 00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:46,560 Speaker 1: been such a dick and you. 1202 00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:47,919 Speaker 3: Were a nice dick, but you were a dick. 1203 00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:52,480 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I mean I was. There were times 1204 00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:55,239 Speaker 1: I was a smart ass, I'll be honest about that, 1205 00:54:55,239 --> 00:54:58,360 Speaker 1: and I shouldn't have been. But it's it's amazing to 1206 00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:00,279 Speaker 1: see the difference that the amount of work it goes 1207 00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:02,840 Speaker 1: into it, and so many times I want to like 1208 00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:05,080 Speaker 1: pull one of the players in that's doing what I'm 1209 00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:06,759 Speaker 1: sure I would have done too, and be like, look, 1210 00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:09,040 Speaker 1: this is how we got to this decision, this is 1211 00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:11,600 Speaker 1: all that we went through, and this is the difference. 1212 00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:13,920 Speaker 1: Is when you're a player, you think players are the 1213 00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:17,200 Speaker 1: only thing that matters to an event, and when you're 1214 00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:20,759 Speaker 1: a Torrent director, you realize that the sponsors matter, the 1215 00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:25,640 Speaker 1: media matters, the fans matter, the TV viewership matters, the 1216 00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:29,279 Speaker 1: players matter, the volunteers matter. There's so much else that 1217 00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:32,400 Speaker 1: goes into every decision that you want to keep everyone happy, 1218 00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:34,919 Speaker 1: but you have to do your best to be fair 1219 00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:37,760 Speaker 1: and balanced, and it's not just fair to the players, 1220 00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:40,000 Speaker 1: it's fair to everyone else. That's a part of the event. 1221 00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:42,399 Speaker 1: And that's what I think a lot of players don't 1222 00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:44,960 Speaker 1: understand and they don't see that. I'm trying my best 1223 00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:47,520 Speaker 1: to politely let a lot of the ones, especially the 1224 00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:49,520 Speaker 1: ones I'm close to and that ask me about, Hey, 1225 00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:51,239 Speaker 1: what are we going to do? When's the schedule coming out? 1226 00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:53,520 Speaker 1: What's this going on? Asking a bunch of different little things. 1227 00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:56,840 Speaker 1: Can I get this? Can I get that? And I 1228 00:55:56,920 --> 00:55:58,920 Speaker 1: try to make sure they're aware that, Hey, you know, 1229 00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:01,160 Speaker 1: I can't give you that answer because it's not fair 1230 00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:03,239 Speaker 1: to everyone else, or I can't I can't tell you 1231 00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:05,279 Speaker 1: that because we haven't decided. We still have a lot 1232 00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:09,239 Speaker 1: to talk about. But it's been fun, it really has. 1233 00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:11,680 Speaker 1: But it's it's been a lot of a lot more 1234 00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:15,040 Speaker 1: work than I really expected it to be. But it's 1235 00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:17,080 Speaker 1: fun I always wanted to be. You know, you learn 1236 00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:19,080 Speaker 1: a lot when you're on tour, and if there's a 1237 00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:22,000 Speaker 1: way to still do something with that when you can't 1238 00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:24,480 Speaker 1: play the way you used to play, then it's fun 1239 00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:25,880 Speaker 1: to still be involved in the sport. I mean, the 1240 00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:27,879 Speaker 1: sport has given me so much. I've loved it from 1241 00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:31,440 Speaker 1: very very early on. So this is another way for 1242 00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:32,800 Speaker 1: me to continue being involved. 1243 00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:35,880 Speaker 3: And do you start Do you start every conversation with 1244 00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:37,800 Speaker 3: a player that comes with you know and a request 1245 00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:41,960 Speaker 3: to listen? I asked the same thing, so I get 1246 00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:44,400 Speaker 3: where you're coming from, and then you play it on 1247 00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:47,640 Speaker 3: them like, but so, but that's a good strategy for you. 1248 00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:51,520 Speaker 3: I feel you. I did the same thing, and I. 1249 00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:54,080 Speaker 1: Think I think I get that. I still I don't 1250 00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:55,520 Speaker 1: know how much longer I got it. I mean, a 1251 00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:57,319 Speaker 1: few more grays come in this beard and people are 1252 00:56:57,320 --> 00:56:59,200 Speaker 1: gonna forget that I ever even played tennis. 1253 00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:01,120 Speaker 4: But right now I think I still get the respect. 1254 00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:02,839 Speaker 1: When I go into the locker room, I'm like, look, hey, 1255 00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:06,560 Speaker 1: you can't have this practice court time where you can't 1256 00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:09,680 Speaker 1: have this match time because so and so because of this, 1257 00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:12,319 Speaker 1: And they get that. I understand that, because hey, look 1258 00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:14,560 Speaker 1: I tried. I am trying to make it easier for 1259 00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:17,720 Speaker 1: the players. But if we absolutely can't put this match 1260 00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:20,280 Speaker 1: on a stadium because TV needs this match on a stadium, 1261 00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:22,120 Speaker 1: and I can explain that to him. I try to 1262 00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:24,440 Speaker 1: be completely open with them, like, look, this is just 1263 00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:26,080 Speaker 1: the way it is we can't do it this way 1264 00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:28,040 Speaker 1: or we have to do it that way. And I 1265 00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:30,040 Speaker 1: think I still get at least the respect in the 1266 00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:32,080 Speaker 1: locker room of you know, at least he gets it, 1267 00:57:32,160 --> 00:57:32,600 Speaker 1: he knows. 1268 00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:35,440 Speaker 3: He's yeah, yeah. 1269 00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:37,280 Speaker 1: And then I've been in that situation. I've you know, 1270 00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:39,840 Speaker 1: I've had plenty of times where I've asked for something 1271 00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:41,640 Speaker 1: when I was on tour, I asked for something and 1272 00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:44,320 Speaker 1: didn't get it, and you know, you got to roll. 1273 00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:48,320 Speaker 3: With that, all right. One thing, Caitlin, my podcast buddy, 1274 00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:51,160 Speaker 3: who's not on this one as per usual because she's 1275 00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:54,560 Speaker 3: doing something else, but she wanted to know about your 1276 00:57:54,640 --> 00:57:57,840 Speaker 3: dad's clothing line. You named a clothing line after you're dead, 1277 00:57:58,000 --> 00:57:59,440 Speaker 3: and she was like, I want to know if he 1278 00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:02,120 Speaker 3: still has any in the closet or any put away 1279 00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:03,040 Speaker 3: that was special. 1280 00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:04,120 Speaker 4: I do. 1281 00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:06,000 Speaker 1: I do have a few of those put away because 1282 00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:09,720 Speaker 1: those were very special to me. And actually Marty mentioned 1283 00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:12,200 Speaker 1: that my brother wore one of those shirts when he 1284 00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:16,520 Speaker 1: was catting for him this last weekend in Orlando, and 1285 00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:20,040 Speaker 1: it was definitely very special to me. Because Felia, when 1286 00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:23,400 Speaker 1: I was with Fila for a few years, they asked 1287 00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:25,480 Speaker 1: if I wanted if I wanted my own line, and 1288 00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:30,200 Speaker 1: I was, I mean surprised by that, but still like, yes, absolutely, 1289 00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:31,920 Speaker 1: I'd love to have my own line. And then they 1290 00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:34,040 Speaker 1: were going over what I wanted to name it, and 1291 00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:36,640 Speaker 1: I absolutely did not want to name it after myself, 1292 00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:38,960 Speaker 1: so I wanted to name it for my dad, and 1293 00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:41,760 Speaker 1: so it ended up being named Thomas Reynolds. So the 1294 00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:45,320 Speaker 1: logo is a tr because we tried TV, but every 1295 00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:49,040 Speaker 1: iteration of TV was taken by some lady named Tory Birch. 1296 00:58:49,080 --> 00:58:51,720 Speaker 1: I don't know. I guess she's got she's she sold 1297 00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:54,439 Speaker 1: a few bags or something, but so everything was taken 1298 00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:56,560 Speaker 1: for TV. So his middle name was Reynolds, so I 1299 00:58:56,600 --> 00:59:00,040 Speaker 1: want Thomas Reynolds for the name of the. 1300 00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:04,120 Speaker 4: That and I thought this stuff was really cool. I 1301 00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:05,520 Speaker 4: mean it was FeelA. 1302 00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:08,280 Speaker 1: I wasn't exactly lighting up the court at that time, 1303 00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:10,240 Speaker 1: so unfortunately I didn't get as much exposure as I 1304 00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:12,320 Speaker 1: would have hoped. But every once in a while I 1305 00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:14,400 Speaker 1: would see some people out there wearing it. I remember 1306 00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:17,360 Speaker 1: Kim Kleister's coach at the time would wear it in 1307 00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:20,880 Speaker 1: the box and I was so appreciative of that and I. 1308 00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:22,040 Speaker 4: Loved doing that. 1309 00:59:22,120 --> 00:59:24,320 Speaker 1: It was really cool, a really cool experience, another learning 1310 00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:27,600 Speaker 1: experience where you see also how difficult the clothing market is, 1311 00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:29,960 Speaker 1: you know, to try to start your own line or 1312 00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:32,200 Speaker 1: do something like that. It's it's not as it's not 1313 00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:36,439 Speaker 1: as easy as as the Nikes and Adidas and all 1314 00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:38,960 Speaker 1: the under armours they all make it look it's it 1315 00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:40,959 Speaker 1: takes a lot to put those out there. 1316 00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:44,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, for sure. What would you tell your twenty 1317 00:59:44,560 --> 00:59:45,280 Speaker 3: year old self. 1318 00:59:45,160 --> 00:59:51,160 Speaker 1: James, Oh, twenty year old self, maybe don't be quite 1319 00:59:51,160 --> 00:59:53,280 Speaker 1: so hard on yourself. I was pretty tough on myself 1320 00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:56,400 Speaker 1: always about every loss and every everything I felt like 1321 00:59:56,440 --> 00:59:59,040 Speaker 1: I did wrong or should have done better. And I've 1322 00:59:59,040 --> 01:00:01,560 Speaker 1: gotten the problem now a stage in my life where 1323 01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:04,360 Speaker 1: I try to take it a little easier on myself 1324 01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:07,440 Speaker 1: and it hopefully helps me have a little more peace. 1325 01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:12,240 Speaker 3: And what's the most important thing you want to get 1326 01:00:12,280 --> 01:00:15,440 Speaker 3: across to your girls? Because I mean, you are surrounded 1327 01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:18,920 Speaker 3: by women, James, which is I mean for a lot 1328 01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:21,400 Speaker 3: of people might not find that so surprising because you know, 1329 01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:23,600 Speaker 3: you're a good looking guy and stuff, but you know 1330 01:00:23,720 --> 01:00:25,959 Speaker 3: your wife and your kids. Now you're surrounded by women, 1331 01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:29,680 Speaker 3: and how kind of I don't know, how great is that. Also, 1332 01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:32,480 Speaker 3: you're just surrounded by these girls and during the COVID 1333 01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:36,120 Speaker 3: correct their home school and the whole thing, and your 1334 01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:38,240 Speaker 3: wife Emily is like, get out of the house already, 1335 01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:40,520 Speaker 3: Like how how great is that for you? 1336 01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:43,479 Speaker 1: I'm reminded of it all the time that they joke 1337 01:00:43,520 --> 01:00:45,920 Speaker 1: about that they're they're basically ganging up on me. It's 1338 01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:47,920 Speaker 1: the girls, you know, it's the girls. Girls will be 1339 01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:49,720 Speaker 1: on one couch and I'm on the other couch. They're 1340 01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:53,120 Speaker 1: still you know, no gross daddy and with mommy, and 1341 01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:56,440 Speaker 1: they remind me plenty, but it's a and then they're 1342 01:00:56,480 --> 01:00:58,640 Speaker 1: both but they're so sweet that I'll say, we're just 1343 01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:01,200 Speaker 1: kidding and they'll come right over. But they're, uh, they 1344 01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:04,720 Speaker 1: are still Mama's girls. But they they're they're so sweet. 1345 01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:08,800 Speaker 1: And I you know, I think every athlete, maybe I 1346 01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:11,000 Speaker 1: don't want to speak for everyone, but like I probably assumed, 1347 01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:13,120 Speaker 1: like I didn't think that far in advance, because you're 1348 01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:15,439 Speaker 1: so focused on tennis, but you think about you're gonna 1349 01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:17,720 Speaker 1: have a son, and he's gonna is he gonna play baseball? 1350 01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:19,120 Speaker 1: Is he gonna play tennis? He's gonna be out in 1351 01:01:19,160 --> 01:01:21,800 Speaker 1: the backyard throwing the football with you. And then before 1352 01:01:21,840 --> 01:01:23,480 Speaker 1: I know it. I have two daughters and now I 1353 01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:27,320 Speaker 1: can't even picture having a son. I see dads of boys, 1354 01:01:27,400 --> 01:01:29,680 Speaker 1: and I just it's it's foreign to me because I'm 1355 01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:32,240 Speaker 1: now I'm so used to just raising girls and how 1356 01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:37,360 Speaker 1: different it is to raise them. And they're so sweet 1357 01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:43,280 Speaker 1: and so both my girls have I don't know, they 1358 01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:46,760 Speaker 1: have unique personalities, but they're they're both very emotional and 1359 01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:48,880 Speaker 1: and so like I said, they can joke with me 1360 01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:50,880 Speaker 1: and mess with me and then be the sweetest thing 1361 01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:52,240 Speaker 1: in the world where they come up to me and 1362 01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:59,040 Speaker 1: want to you know, they'll they'll be upset, but yeah, 1363 01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:01,240 Speaker 1: will you will you just lay with me while I 1364 01:02:01,240 --> 01:02:04,280 Speaker 1: fall asleep, And it's like, absolutely, of course I will, 1365 01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:07,600 Speaker 1: you know. And they're they're just so sweet, and it's 1366 01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:09,840 Speaker 1: it's been a ton of fun. And my older one 1367 01:02:09,960 --> 01:02:13,600 Speaker 1: is so into sports. She wants to watch every sport 1368 01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:17,600 Speaker 1: I'm watching. She'd asked a million questions about football, about basketball, 1369 01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:22,080 Speaker 1: about baseball, tennis. She's I mean, so I am not 1370 01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:25,280 Speaker 1: missing the athlete part of it at all. It's just 1371 01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:28,840 Speaker 1: coming from her. It's awesome. She wants to and I'm actually, 1372 01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:30,520 Speaker 1: as soon as I'm done with this, I'm taking a 1373 01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:34,120 Speaker 1: rite to soccer practice and you know she's in. She 1374 01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:36,200 Speaker 1: wants to ride horses, she wants to play soccer, she 1375 01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:38,040 Speaker 1: wants to play tennis, she wants to do everything. 1376 01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:40,320 Speaker 4: So I mean, I absolutely love it. 1377 01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:41,439 Speaker 1: Good. 1378 01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:44,720 Speaker 3: Well, I can't see you being a nightmare tennis parent 1379 01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:46,960 Speaker 3: or just a nightmare parent, but I can see you 1380 01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:50,720 Speaker 3: because I know you that you're you know, not a perfectionist, 1381 01:02:50,760 --> 01:02:53,480 Speaker 3: but you want someone to do something well. So I 1382 01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:55,280 Speaker 3: hope that you passed that on to her, but that 1383 01:02:55,400 --> 01:02:57,760 Speaker 3: you're a parent that I know you are as a guy, 1384 01:02:57,880 --> 01:02:59,040 Speaker 3: and you're a great one. 1385 01:02:59,120 --> 01:03:01,520 Speaker 4: So well, thanks, Renee, appreciate it. 1386 01:03:01,560 --> 01:03:05,800 Speaker 6: Thanks for doing this, and that's it for this episode 1387 01:03:05,840 --> 01:03:09,120 Speaker 6: of the Racket Magazine podcast. Thanks for listening. Our host 1388 01:03:09,360 --> 01:03:12,000 Speaker 6: is Renee Stubbs. Our co host and producer is me 1389 01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:16,800 Speaker 6: Caitlin Thompson. Music by international renowned DJ Stretch Armstrong. Thanks 1390 01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:19,439 Speaker 6: to Tim or jer And and the team at acast. Find 1391 01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:22,800 Speaker 6: us at racketmag dot com, slash podcast, and subscribe to 1392 01:03:22,880 --> 01:03:25,000 Speaker 6: us at any of your favorite podcasters