WEBVTT - America's Pet Murderer

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<v Speaker 1>It was a majestic summer evening in Manhattan in June

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen o six. The scene was like something torn from

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<v Speaker 1>the pages of The Great Gatsby. A few hundred of

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<v Speaker 1>New York's pashaus citizens sat under the stars on the

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<v Speaker 1>rooftop theater at the old Madison Square Garden. They were

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<v Speaker 1>there for the premiere of a new musical. Stanford White,

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<v Speaker 1>the wealthy owner of Madison Square Garden, sat at his

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<v Speaker 1>reserved table in the front. The show was coming to

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<v Speaker 1>an end with the final number. I could love a

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<v Speaker 1>Million Girls, I heard him says good Luther was lone

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<v Speaker 1>is rubbish. White cut a larger than life figure in

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<v Speaker 1>turn of the century New York, and he was a

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<v Speaker 1>Harvey Weinstein of his age. He indulged his lavish appetites

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<v Speaker 1>with impunity, and that included beautiful teenage girls. Oh good,

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<v Speaker 1>love a million girls. Never girl a twin. I could

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<v Speaker 1>love a John It's girl, and ask you more back.

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<v Speaker 1>Stanford White's appetites were about to catch up with him.

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<v Speaker 1>What I f that thing that I would love about

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<v Speaker 1>the million girls? People in the audience thought that the

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<v Speaker 1>gunshots were part of the show. At first, the music

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<v Speaker 1>kept playing. I love the girl with legs along with

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<v Speaker 1>Beau did you like you? Then there were a few screams,

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<v Speaker 1>then panic. The magical evening atmosphere evaporated like a dream.

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<v Speaker 1>A man wearing a black tuxedo, a white straw boater hat,

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<v Speaker 1>and an overcoat far too heavy for a hot summer night,

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<v Speaker 1>raised a pistol over his head. The man screamed, I

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<v Speaker 1>did it because he ruined my wife. When thing good

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<v Speaker 1>love Girl, it was an unforgettable night at Madison Square Garden.

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<v Speaker 1>One millionaire murdered another millionaire in a fit of rage

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<v Speaker 1>and jealousy, and that was just the start of the madness. Girl.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to The Thread, a podcast from Ozzie. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>Sean Braswell. This season we dig into some of history's

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<v Speaker 1>most incredible criminal trials, ones that attempted to find a

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<v Speaker 1>defendant not guilty by way of insanity. It's a criminal

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<v Speaker 1>defense fraught with controversy, and it goes back over two

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<v Speaker 1>hundred years. Our Thread this season began with the recent

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<v Speaker 1>case of James Holmes, the young man who opened fire

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<v Speaker 1>on a Colorado movie theater. In homes suffered from a

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<v Speaker 1>variety of delusions, but experts and the jury at his

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<v Speaker 1>trial determined that Holmes knew the difference between right and wrong,

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<v Speaker 1>and he was therefore not legally insane when he committed

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<v Speaker 1>the crime. Part of the reason that even mentally ill

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<v Speaker 1>defendants like Holmes faced an uphill battle and pleading insanity

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<v Speaker 1>is the public and legal reaction to the outcomes in

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<v Speaker 1>two earlier insanity cases. In those two cases, which we

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<v Speaker 1>covered in episodes two and three, both Ringa Bobbitt, who

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<v Speaker 1>cut off her husband's penis with a kitchen knife, and

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<v Speaker 1>John Hinckley Jr. Who nearly killed President Ronald Reagan with

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<v Speaker 1>a gunshot, were found not guilty of any crimes by

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<v Speaker 1>reason of insanity. In this episode, we turned back the

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<v Speaker 1>clock more than seventy years to the nineteen o six

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<v Speaker 1>murder of Stanford White on the rooftop of Madison Square.

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<v Speaker 1>Guard White's killer was an eccentric businessman from Pittsburgh named

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<v Speaker 1>Harry Thaw. Thaw's wealthy family was prepared to pay a

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<v Speaker 1>million dollars to spare him from the electric chair. They

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<v Speaker 1>were also prepared to embrace an unorthodox legal strategy. Harry

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<v Speaker 1>Thaw's murder trial and his insanity plea transfixed the American

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<v Speaker 1>public and reimagine the criminal law. America was at a

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<v Speaker 1>key turning point in its history in the early years

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<v Speaker 1>of the twentieth century. Paula You're a Bureau is a

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<v Speaker 1>professor of English and film studies at Hofstra University and

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<v Speaker 1>the author of American Eve. I gave a recent talk,

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<v Speaker 1>and I decided to describe New York City at the

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<v Speaker 1>turn of the century as the city of the temples

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<v Speaker 1>of power and temples of pleasure, and I would add progress,

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<v Speaker 1>because it was the century of progress. Huge fortunes were

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<v Speaker 1>made in areas like banking, oil, railroads, and steel by

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<v Speaker 1>men with names like John D. Rockefeller, Andrew Carnegie, and

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<v Speaker 1>Henry Clay Frick. And people who made their fortunes such

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<v Speaker 1>as Carnegie or Frick would usually moved to New York

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<v Speaker 1>City from wherever they came from, simply because New York

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<v Speaker 1>was the most exciting and the most interesting place to be.

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<v Speaker 1>Simon Botts is a professor of history at the John

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<v Speaker 1>J College of Justice and author of The Girl in

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<v Speaker 1>the Velvet Swing. And so New York City became really

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<v Speaker 1>the repository of a huge amount of wealth as these

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<v Speaker 1>multi millionaires moved to the city, and when they came here.

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<v Speaker 1>What they did was they hired architects to build them

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<v Speaker 1>luxurious houses and mansions. Stanford White was one of those architects.

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<v Speaker 1>He was determined to sort of remake New York in

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<v Speaker 1>his own image. White design luxurious homes for wealthy clients

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<v Speaker 1>like the Vanderbilts and the Astors and UH. In addition

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<v Speaker 1>to private houses, he he designed a lot of public spaces,

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<v Speaker 1>including UH probably the most famous things are that are

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<v Speaker 1>still there as well to the Washington Square arch the

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<v Speaker 1>original Penn Station, and of course Madison Square Garden, which

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<v Speaker 1>was the sort of jewel in the crown of his

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<v Speaker 1>achievements as in architect Madison Square Garden was a block

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<v Speaker 1>long entertainment company lex in Manhattan. It had an enormous amphitheater.

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<v Speaker 1>We're up to seventeen thousand spectators gathered for horse shows,

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<v Speaker 1>boxing matches, and political meetings. There was a ballroom, a restaurant,

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<v Speaker 1>a concert hall, an indoor theater, and an open air

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<v Speaker 1>rooftop theater. A large nude bronze statue of the Goddess

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<v Speaker 1>Diana loomed over the rooftop theater on top of a

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<v Speaker 1>gleaming tower. Madison Square Garden made Stanford White a New

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<v Speaker 1>York celebrity. He was very tall, he was very distinctive,

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<v Speaker 1>he had striking red hair, and by all accounts, he

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<v Speaker 1>was a very gregarious, charming, considerate individual. But at the

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<v Speaker 1>same time, he had I think a self destructive tendency

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<v Speaker 1>inside his character. White's character was also destructive to others.

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<v Speaker 1>The woman at the center of the love triangle that

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<v Speaker 1>would result in White's murder said that he had vicious

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<v Speaker 1>tendencies he quote performed frequently without remorse, with the sense

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<v Speaker 1>that he and his friends were immune to the laws

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<v Speaker 1>of the land. That woman was Evelyn Nesbitt. She was

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<v Speaker 1>born in a torrent in Pennsylvania, which was a suburb

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<v Speaker 1>of Pittsburgh, and at least for the first ten years

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<v Speaker 1>of her life it was a fairly traditional I think

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<v Speaker 1>childhood Paula, You're a bureau again. But then her father

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<v Speaker 1>died suddenly when she was eleven, and she and her

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<v Speaker 1>mother and she had a younger brother, were thrown into poverty.

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<v Speaker 1>It was sort of like a Dickens novel. Evelyn Nesbitt

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<v Speaker 1>came to New York with her mother and brother in

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen hundred. She was just fifteen Simon Barts, and immediately

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<v Speaker 1>Evelyn got employment as a model, modeling for illustrators of

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<v Speaker 1>magazines and newspapers, and also for artists. Nesbitt had a distinctive,

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<v Speaker 1>effortless beauty that set her apart from the other models

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<v Speaker 1>of her day. She had large, haunting eyes, a mysterious

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<v Speaker 1>mona Lisa half smile, and an enchanting, angelic face. Everybody said,

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<v Speaker 1>and now it's funny when you say it. Now she

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<v Speaker 1>had a face to die for, which was, of course

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<v Speaker 1>what what was going to happen? But her face was

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<v Speaker 1>her fortune in Her face was on the Whitman sampler,

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<v Speaker 1>and her faces on sheet music, and it was on

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<v Speaker 1>anything you could put a picture on. Nesbitt became an

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<v Speaker 1>American sweetheart, perhaps the nation's first true pin up girl.

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<v Speaker 1>One Calumness dubbed her a modern Helen. But she wanted

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<v Speaker 1>more than that. She decided she wanted to be a

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<v Speaker 1>chorus girl. Like all young girls who come to the city,

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<v Speaker 1>they want to be rich, they want to be famous.

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<v Speaker 1>She managed to get into the chorus of the most

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<v Speaker 1>popular show and broad at the time, which was called

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<v Speaker 1>Flora Dora. Her mother lied about her age and said

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<v Speaker 1>that she was eighteen when she was only sixteen. As

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<v Speaker 1>a chorus girl, Nesbit became the object of even more

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<v Speaker 1>men's affections. The owner of Madison Square Garden was no different.

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<v Speaker 1>Stanford White saw her and was immediately sort of smitten

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<v Speaker 1>with her. Unlike Nesbitt's other admirers, however, White had the

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<v Speaker 1>means to pursue his crush. Stanford White invited her to

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<v Speaker 1>lunch one day and gradually got to know her. And

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<v Speaker 1>at this time Stanford White was forty seven years old

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<v Speaker 1>and Evelyn Nesbit was sixteen years old. White celaborate seduction

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<v Speaker 1>of the beautiful teenager began at his Manhattan bachelor pad

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<v Speaker 1>on West Street, and that's where she met White for

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<v Speaker 1>the first time. And he was showing around all of

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<v Speaker 1>the beautiful rooms and things that he had decorated. It

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't it was not a house that was known to

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<v Speaker 1>his wife or his family. He called it one of

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<v Speaker 1>his snuggeries. There were red velvet curtains and beautiful pieces

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<v Speaker 1>of hand carved Italian furniture, fine paintings hung on the walls.

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<v Speaker 1>After lunch, White invited Nesbit upstairs to see more of

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<v Speaker 1>his home in art collections, including a very special room

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<v Speaker 1>on the top floor of the building Simon Botz again,

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<v Speaker 1>author of The Girl on the Velvet Swing. So the

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<v Speaker 1>whole of the fourth floor is open. It's like a

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<v Speaker 1>room that goes from the front of the building to

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<v Speaker 1>the back of the building. So it's a very large room,

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<v Speaker 1>and there's a swing with a velvet padded seat with

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<v Speaker 1>velvet ropes descending from the ceiling. Paul You're Bureau again,

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<v Speaker 1>author of American eve He showed her this red velvet

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<v Speaker 1>swing that was put in the room so that you

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<v Speaker 1>could push somebody on the swing, and then the uh

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<v Speaker 1>in Evelyn's case, he put her on the swing that

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<v Speaker 1>afternoon and he hung a Japanese paper parasol in the ceiling,

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<v Speaker 1>and she pushed her to see if she could break

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<v Speaker 1>it with her foot. And you can get all fright

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<v Speaker 1>in about what that means, but but that was the

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<v Speaker 1>introduction that she had to White. White lavished more money

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<v Speaker 1>and attention on the young woman after that first encounter.

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<v Speaker 1>It was all part of a well hound routine. Nesbitt

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<v Speaker 1>later described it this way. On the witness stand, men

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<v Speaker 1>like White reduced their methods to an exact science. He

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<v Speaker 1>put her and her mother in an apartment, He sent

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<v Speaker 1>her brother to school, He had her taking piano lessons.

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<v Speaker 1>He was he was what seemed like a very paternal benefactor,

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<v Speaker 1>and you realize now that he was probably grooming her.

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<v Speaker 1>The courtship went on for a few months, then White

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<v Speaker 1>made his true intentions known. He was, as Nesbit put it,

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<v Speaker 1>a benevolent vampire. I think of him more like Roman Polanski,

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<v Speaker 1>but I think of him as somebody who had who was,

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<v Speaker 1>who was an artist and a genius and a lover

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<v Speaker 1>of beauty. People knew that he had an eye for

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<v Speaker 1>younger girls. One evening after her performance ended, Nesbit arrived

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<v Speaker 1>at White's home for a dinner party, but to her surprise,

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<v Speaker 1>only White was waiting for her. He was apologetic, isn't

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<v Speaker 1>it too bad? He said that all the others have

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<v Speaker 1>turned us down. White informed Nesbit that they would have

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<v Speaker 1>their own party. He said to her, I want to

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<v Speaker 1>show you another room. And she goes up this other

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<v Speaker 1>set of stairs that she had never seen before, and

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<v Speaker 1>there was this mirrored room with a mirrored bed and

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<v Speaker 1>mirrors on the ceiling. There was a small table that

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<v Speaker 1>stood next to an enormous four poster canopied bed. There

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<v Speaker 1>was a bottle of champagne on the table and a

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<v Speaker 1>single glass. White poured Evelyn a glass of champagne. She

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<v Speaker 1>sipped it, she tasted it. She didn't like the taste,

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<v Speaker 1>but he asked her to tasted some more, and she

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<v Speaker 1>fell unconscious. And then she woke up later to find

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<v Speaker 1>herself naked in bed, with Stanford White lying next to her,

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<v Speaker 1>and Evelyn the way she describes it, as she said,

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<v Speaker 1>I went into the room of virgin, but I did

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<v Speaker 1>not come out one. No one knows for sure if

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<v Speaker 1>the champagne was drugged or not. Evelyn later maintained that

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<v Speaker 1>she had just had too much of it. Whatever the cause,

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<v Speaker 1>the result was the same. She woke up naked in

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<v Speaker 1>the bed next to Stanford White and screamed. Her suitor

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<v Speaker 1>tried to console her. He said, tenderly, don't cry, kittens,

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<v Speaker 1>it's all over now you belong to me. The next

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<v Speaker 1>thing she knew was that she was essentially White's mistress

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<v Speaker 1>and was now a fixture at his party's um and

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<v Speaker 1>got to meet everybody, from Edison to Sitting Ball to Nijinsky.

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<v Speaker 1>She was meeting all these incredible people. She was enjoying

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<v Speaker 1>the high life, and he was buying her furs and

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<v Speaker 1>jewelry nes but began dating her patron and protector. But

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<v Speaker 1>the following year she met another wealthy man, one with

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<v Speaker 1>his own score to settle against wit. When it's time

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<v Speaker 1>to make a hire for your small business, naturally you

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<v Speaker 1>want to find the best person for the job. Odds

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<v Speaker 1>are that person is on LinkedIn. Here at ausie, where

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<v Speaker 1>we weave each season of the thread, we depend on

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<v Speaker 1>LinkedIn jobs to help us find the right person for

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<v Speaker 1>our hiring needs to put top talent at our fingertips.

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<v Speaker 1>LinkedIn jobs makes it easy to get matched with quality

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<v Speaker 1>candidates who make the most sense for your position. It

0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:57.520
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0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:54.680
<v Speaker 1>and listen for a change. Harry kay Thaw came from

0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:57.720
<v Speaker 1>a wealthy Pittsburgh family. His father had made his money

0:15:57.760 --> 0:16:00.480
<v Speaker 1>in mining and railroads. He was the heir to a

0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:05.360
<v Speaker 1>forty million dollar fortune um and his His father had

0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:08.640
<v Speaker 1>died when Harry was eighteen, and he knew that there

0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:11.480
<v Speaker 1>was something wrong with Harry, and he told his wife

0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:15.120
<v Speaker 1>that Harry should be put on on a strict budget

0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:18.280
<v Speaker 1>in terms of an allowance. Something was definitely wrong with

0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:20.920
<v Speaker 1>the young Harry Thaw. He would giggle when he heard

0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:24.360
<v Speaker 1>about someone else's misfortune. He was known as Mad Harry.

0:16:24.880 --> 0:16:27.040
<v Speaker 1>He once made the papers for chasing a man down

0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:30.040
<v Speaker 1>the street with an unloaded shotgun because he believed he

0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:33.240
<v Speaker 1>cheated him out of ten cents change. He went to

0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:36.160
<v Speaker 1>Harvard and spent most of his time smoking and playing poker.

0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:39.760
<v Speaker 1>There he was expelled on grounds of moral turpitude, but

0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:41.640
<v Speaker 1>there was no need for him to get a degree

0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:45.560
<v Speaker 1>because his annual allowance was eighty thousand dollars. He was

0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:48.440
<v Speaker 1>basically a playboy. Saw was a tall man with a

0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:52.440
<v Speaker 1>boyish appearance, a pug nose, and an often idiotic grin.

0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:55.680
<v Speaker 1>One Pittsburgh newspaper said he looked like a peeled turnip.

0:16:56.600 --> 0:16:59.240
<v Speaker 1>Thaw felt that he was too big for Pittsburgh, and

0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:02.560
<v Speaker 1>so he said sites on New York. But his reputation

0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:05.960
<v Speaker 1>really was in advance of him, and so he never

0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:08.720
<v Speaker 1>got accepted into New York society. So he never got

0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:12.040
<v Speaker 1>admission to any of the clubs. And usually that would

0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:14.680
<v Speaker 1>be easy for a wealthy person to do. They would

0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:17.080
<v Speaker 1>accept you. But he never got accepted, and he was

0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:19.800
<v Speaker 1>always black balled. Part of it undoubtedly had to do

0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:23.080
<v Speaker 1>with his personality. He had a very short fuse. He

0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:26.000
<v Speaker 1>had a very angry temper. He would do things on

0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:29.240
<v Speaker 1>a whim. For example, if if he was in a

0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:33.280
<v Speaker 1>restaurant and he didn't like the service, he would pull

0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:37.760
<v Speaker 1>the tablecloth and all the dishes and cutlery would come

0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:41.640
<v Speaker 1>clattering down onto the floor. There were other incidents. Thaw

0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:43.800
<v Speaker 1>drove his car through the plate glass window of a

0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:47.000
<v Speaker 1>shop on Fifth Avenue after an argument with a sales clerk.

0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:51.040
<v Speaker 1>But thaws family and his fortune were always there to

0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:54.920
<v Speaker 1>bail him out of trouble whatever his reckless and crazy behavior,

0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:57.400
<v Speaker 1>and he really did have a lot of psychological problems.

0:17:57.560 --> 0:17:59.359
<v Speaker 1>He used to talk baby talk at the age of

0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:02.480
<v Speaker 1>thirty six, thought could also be quite charming. And when

0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:06.720
<v Speaker 1>Evelyn Nesbit's relationship with her benefactor Stanford White finally went south,

0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:09.560
<v Speaker 1>Harry Thaw was there to pick up the pieces. He

0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:13.800
<v Speaker 1>began to court Nesbit relentlessly. Thaw knew that Nesbit dated White,

0:18:14.000 --> 0:18:16.720
<v Speaker 1>and he knew all about White's reputation as a womanizer,

0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:20.040
<v Speaker 1>but he never heard about how White pursued her. They

0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:24.800
<v Speaker 1>went on vacation together during the summer in nineteen o three,

0:18:25.240 --> 0:18:30.520
<v Speaker 1>and on that occasion, Evelyn told Harry about the rape,

0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:32.960
<v Speaker 1>and this was the first time she had ever told

0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:38.000
<v Speaker 1>anybody about the rape. And from that moment on, Harry

0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:42.720
<v Speaker 1>Thorpe became obsessed with Stanford White, and his persistent courtship

0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:45.720
<v Speaker 1>of Nesbit proved successful. He asked her to marry him

0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:50.119
<v Speaker 1>several times and then she finally agreed to marry him,

0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:53.879
<v Speaker 1>which she did at the age of nineteen. And I

0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:57.240
<v Speaker 1>think it's a symbolic that the she wore a black

0:18:57.280 --> 0:19:00.480
<v Speaker 1>dress to the wedding. The newly weds moved back to

0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:03.840
<v Speaker 1>Pittsburgh and settled down for a while. Harry Thaw seemed

0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:14.160
<v Speaker 1>almost well, saying Harry and Evelyn enjoyed a few months

0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:16.960
<v Speaker 1>of marital bliss in their hometown, But Thaw could not

0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:19.359
<v Speaker 1>keep his mind off Stanford White and what he had

0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:21.639
<v Speaker 1>done to his wife. For the last year, he had

0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:25.280
<v Speaker 1>been becoming more and more obsessed with having her retail

0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:28.119
<v Speaker 1>the story of how White had taken advantage of her

0:19:28.160 --> 0:19:31.359
<v Speaker 1>in seduced her. Then, in the summer of nineteen o six,

0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:33.640
<v Speaker 1>Harry and Evelyn stopped in New York on their way

0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:36.919
<v Speaker 1>to a European vacation. Harry proposed that they see a

0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:41.280
<v Speaker 1>show at a somewhat surprising venue, Stanford White's rooftop Theater

0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:46.120
<v Speaker 1>at Madison Square Garden, and Evelyn said to herself, this

0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:49.200
<v Speaker 1>is really weird, because I can't believe Harry would want

0:19:49.200 --> 0:19:53.480
<v Speaker 1>to be anywhere near, knowing a building that was associated

0:19:53.520 --> 0:19:56.800
<v Speaker 1>with me and with White. It was an unseasonably hot day,

0:19:56.960 --> 0:19:59.960
<v Speaker 1>even for New York in June. That day, the hippopotam

0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:02.639
<v Speaker 1>us in the Central Park Zoo collapsed and died from

0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:05.679
<v Speaker 1>heat exhaustion, a story that would take a back page

0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:08.399
<v Speaker 1>in the following day's newspaper to what was about to

0:20:08.440 --> 0:20:11.880
<v Speaker 1>happen at Madison Square Garden. It's, you know, a hundred degrees.

0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:15.159
<v Speaker 1>It's they're out in an outdoor rooftop theater, and Harry's

0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:18.359
<v Speaker 1>wearing this heavy overcoat, which I think he did because

0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:20.399
<v Speaker 1>he was concealing the gun, because he couldn't hide it

0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:22.960
<v Speaker 1>very well in his texedo. Harry and Evelyn took in

0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:26.440
<v Speaker 1>the performance. A little before eleven pm, the garden's owner

0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:30.160
<v Speaker 1>emerged from his private residence to join the audience. Evelyn

0:20:30.160 --> 0:20:33.280
<v Speaker 1>watched Harry, who stood up at Stanford White's appearance with

0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:36.439
<v Speaker 1>a glazed look in his eyes. She suggested that her

0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:40.520
<v Speaker 1>husband leave the show, and as they were going towards

0:20:40.520 --> 0:20:43.439
<v Speaker 1>the exit, Harry broke away, went to the front of

0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:48.199
<v Speaker 1>the theater, where Stanford White was sitting in his usual seat,

0:20:49.359 --> 0:20:54.080
<v Speaker 1>and then, in front of hundreds of theater goers, pulls

0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:59.040
<v Speaker 1>out his pistol and fires three shots and instantly kills

0:20:59.080 --> 0:21:04.639
<v Speaker 1>Stanford White. Harry Thaw stood over his victim, and then

0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:08.120
<v Speaker 1>he held the gun up and said I to anybody

0:21:08.160 --> 0:21:09.720
<v Speaker 1>that was still around him, he said, I did it

0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:13.359
<v Speaker 1>because he ruined my wife. Three chorus girls fainted on

0:21:13.400 --> 0:21:17.840
<v Speaker 1>the stage floor. The orchestra kept playing. Harry rejoined his wife,

0:21:17.920 --> 0:21:21.359
<v Speaker 1>and a distraught Evelyn cried, oh, Harry, what have you done.

0:21:22.280 --> 0:21:24.800
<v Speaker 1>He kissed her on the cheek and said, it's all right, dear,

0:21:25.119 --> 0:21:29.359
<v Speaker 1>I've probably saved your life. Harry was arrested and taken

0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:32.639
<v Speaker 1>down the garden's elevator. He calmly lit a cigarette when

0:21:32.680 --> 0:21:36.760
<v Speaker 1>he exited the building. Up next, the criminal trial and

0:21:36.800 --> 0:21:40.440
<v Speaker 1>the love triangle that shocked America. Harry Thaw was forced

0:21:40.440 --> 0:21:42.640
<v Speaker 1>to call in his family yet again to bail him

0:21:42.640 --> 0:21:46.879
<v Speaker 1>out and to embrace an unprecedented but brilliant new legal

0:21:46.920 --> 0:22:06.080
<v Speaker 1>defense strategy to save himself from the electric chair. Don't

0:22:06.119 --> 0:22:09.040
<v Speaker 1>miss the new CBS All Access original series that will

0:22:09.080 --> 0:22:12.040
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0:22:12.760 --> 0:22:15.920
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0:22:15.920 --> 0:22:18.439
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0:22:23.080 --> 0:22:25.679
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0:22:25.760 --> 0:22:30.480
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0:22:30.520 --> 0:22:34.320
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0:22:45.160 --> 0:22:48.840
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0:22:52.200 --> 0:22:57.120
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0:22:57.480 --> 0:23:00.760
<v Speaker 1>Cross over into another dimension. Visit c S dot com

0:23:00.840 --> 0:23:05.119
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0:23:05.160 --> 0:23:09.280
<v Speaker 1>that CBS dot com slash thread t z to redeem

0:23:09.280 --> 0:23:14.160
<v Speaker 1>your free trial of CBS All Access. Every decade has

0:23:14.160 --> 0:23:17.280
<v Speaker 1>its trial of the century. When I've talked about this

0:23:17.320 --> 0:23:19.360
<v Speaker 1>as being the trial of the century, there people say, well,

0:23:19.359 --> 0:23:22.280
<v Speaker 1>there was Leopold and Loebe, and there's Madson, and there's

0:23:22.320 --> 0:23:24.119
<v Speaker 1>o J And I said, well, okay, but this was

0:23:24.240 --> 0:23:27.280
<v Speaker 1>the first trial of the twentieth century. Just a week

0:23:27.320 --> 0:23:30.240
<v Speaker 1>after the murder, Thomas Edison Studio put out a hastily

0:23:30.240 --> 0:23:33.480
<v Speaker 1>made film reenactment of the crime, which audiences across the

0:23:33.520 --> 0:23:37.240
<v Speaker 1>country swarm to watch. Teddy Roosevelt, the President of the

0:23:37.320 --> 0:23:40.520
<v Speaker 1>United States, worried that the trial would distract Americans from

0:23:40.560 --> 0:23:43.320
<v Speaker 1>their work, and even tried to suppress the transcripts from

0:23:43.359 --> 0:23:46.200
<v Speaker 1>the trial on the grounds that the sordid material would

0:23:46.320 --> 0:23:50.680
<v Speaker 1>ruin public virtue. One newspaper columnist summarized it, A rich

0:23:50.720 --> 0:23:53.240
<v Speaker 1>man has been killed, a rich man did the killing,

0:23:53.600 --> 0:23:55.760
<v Speaker 1>and so a world sits up to hear the tale.

0:23:55.880 --> 0:23:59.920
<v Speaker 1>In every red and tripping particular. It was the breaking point.

0:24:00.000 --> 0:24:02.080
<v Speaker 1>It between the old and the new in terms of

0:24:02.440 --> 0:24:05.720
<v Speaker 1>the Victorian era versus now, what would become you know,

0:24:05.800 --> 0:24:09.240
<v Speaker 1>modern America with the media circus and people using their

0:24:09.240 --> 0:24:11.840
<v Speaker 1>money and influence to try to get around the law.

0:24:12.240 --> 0:24:14.840
<v Speaker 1>New York's district attorney was determined to put Thaw in

0:24:14.880 --> 0:24:17.159
<v Speaker 1>the electric chair for the murder of one of the

0:24:17.160 --> 0:24:20.760
<v Speaker 1>city's most prominent citizens. Thaws family hired a team of

0:24:20.840 --> 0:24:23.960
<v Speaker 1>high powered attorneys to fight back, but there was one

0:24:24.000 --> 0:24:29.080
<v Speaker 1>big obstacle. Harry Thaw. So his attorneys wanted to actually

0:24:29.640 --> 0:24:33.280
<v Speaker 1>claim that he was insane when he fired the gun,

0:24:33.440 --> 0:24:36.960
<v Speaker 1>but he said, to his attorney's no way, I'm perfectly

0:24:37.000 --> 0:24:40.000
<v Speaker 1>saying I did. I did the act, and in fact

0:24:40.119 --> 0:24:42.880
<v Speaker 1>I should have been given a medal for getting rid

0:24:42.920 --> 0:24:46.720
<v Speaker 1>of this pedophile and this rapist. Well Harry, of course,

0:24:47.480 --> 0:24:50.760
<v Speaker 1>Harry really was delusional because he thought after he shot White,

0:24:50.800 --> 0:24:52.600
<v Speaker 1>that he was going to be hailed as the conquering

0:24:52.640 --> 0:24:55.600
<v Speaker 1>hero who had saved all of the young women of

0:24:55.640 --> 0:24:59.159
<v Speaker 1>New York from from Stanford White. So thaws attorneys had

0:24:59.160 --> 0:25:02.200
<v Speaker 1>to put aside the sanity defense and try something else.

0:25:02.680 --> 0:25:07.920
<v Speaker 1>And so in the trial, the attorneys what they do

0:25:08.119 --> 0:25:10.760
<v Speaker 1>is they come in with the defense that is dictated

0:25:10.800 --> 0:25:14.720
<v Speaker 1>by Harry thorwe which is that the homicide was justifiable.

0:25:15.119 --> 0:25:17.920
<v Speaker 1>They settled on what might be called an honor killing defense,

0:25:18.280 --> 0:25:20.919
<v Speaker 1>based on a kind of vigilante notion that there was

0:25:20.960 --> 0:25:23.159
<v Speaker 1>an unwritten law that a man had the right to

0:25:23.200 --> 0:25:27.040
<v Speaker 1>defend his wife's honor. It succeeded in many many cases,

0:25:27.080 --> 0:25:30.399
<v Speaker 1>particularly in the Southern States, that if you were the

0:25:30.520 --> 0:25:34.919
<v Speaker 1>husband of a woman who had been attacked, assaulted, or raped,

0:25:35.680 --> 0:25:38.679
<v Speaker 1>you had the right to go and take your revenge

0:25:38.920 --> 0:25:42.080
<v Speaker 1>on the the the assailant. The New York newspapers had

0:25:42.119 --> 0:25:44.280
<v Speaker 1>a field day with it. But the unwritten law was

0:25:44.400 --> 0:25:47.400
<v Speaker 1>essential to Thaw's defense. They even gave it a name.

0:25:47.440 --> 0:25:50.679
<v Speaker 1>They called it, in Harry's case, Dementia americana, which is

0:25:50.720 --> 0:25:53.680
<v Speaker 1>one of my favorite terms. And they hired all these

0:25:53.720 --> 0:25:56.680
<v Speaker 1>alienists who were, you know, the precursor to psychiatrists who

0:25:57.160 --> 0:25:59.960
<v Speaker 1>come in it a thousand dollars a day to testify

0:26:00.200 --> 0:26:05.760
<v Speaker 1>that Harry was suffering terribly because of this dementia Americana.

0:26:06.200 --> 0:26:08.919
<v Speaker 1>Thaw's lawyers tried to refocus the case away from Thaw's

0:26:08.960 --> 0:26:11.680
<v Speaker 1>own conduct and onto the sordid behavior of the man

0:26:11.720 --> 0:26:15.480
<v Speaker 1>whose conduct had prompted the crime, Stanford White. One of

0:26:15.520 --> 0:26:18.960
<v Speaker 1>the first witnesses, was a cab driver who used to

0:26:18.960 --> 0:26:22.359
<v Speaker 1>bring people to Madison Square Gordon, and when they asked

0:26:22.359 --> 0:26:24.399
<v Speaker 1>if he was surprised about what happened, he said, no,

0:26:24.480 --> 0:26:26.720
<v Speaker 1>I was just surprised that it that it was a

0:26:26.800 --> 0:26:28.560
<v Speaker 1>husband that killed him. I always thought it would be

0:26:28.560 --> 0:26:33.040
<v Speaker 1>a father. Shocking tales of White's prolific womanizing began to surface,

0:26:33.400 --> 0:26:35.919
<v Speaker 1>and the dead man's conduct became a central part of

0:26:35.960 --> 0:26:38.800
<v Speaker 1>Harry Thaw's defense. The thing, of course, if you say

0:26:38.800 --> 0:26:42.320
<v Speaker 1>it's a justifiable homicide, why is it justifiable because Stunfield

0:26:42.359 --> 0:26:46.720
<v Speaker 1>White raped Evelyn? But who is going to testify that

0:26:46.800 --> 0:26:50.159
<v Speaker 1>the rape happened. There's only one witness by necessity, and

0:26:50.200 --> 0:26:53.960
<v Speaker 1>that's Evelyn Nesbit, And so everything depended on her testimony.

0:26:54.000 --> 0:26:56.960
<v Speaker 1>And she's only twenty one years old. And Evelyn finally

0:26:57.000 --> 0:26:58.840
<v Speaker 1>decided she didn't want to see Harry go to the

0:26:58.840 --> 0:27:02.159
<v Speaker 1>electric chair, so she gets up on the stand tells

0:27:02.160 --> 0:27:05.280
<v Speaker 1>her story about what White did, and they were they

0:27:05.280 --> 0:27:07.360
<v Speaker 1>were pushing her to say that he had drugged her

0:27:07.400 --> 0:27:11.560
<v Speaker 1>and raped her, and um she went along with this story.

0:27:12.080 --> 0:27:15.919
<v Speaker 1>America was gripped by Evelyn's testimony, so was the defendant.

0:27:16.359 --> 0:27:18.879
<v Speaker 1>Several times Harry sat forward in his chair and gripped

0:27:18.880 --> 0:27:22.119
<v Speaker 1>the table so hard his knuckles turned red. When she

0:27:22.200 --> 0:27:25.040
<v Speaker 1>finished recounting the tail of her to flowering, he broke

0:27:25.080 --> 0:27:29.280
<v Speaker 1>down and cried. Thanks in part to Evelyn's convincing testimony, however,

0:27:29.600 --> 0:27:31.919
<v Speaker 1>many Americans came to see Harry Thaw as a kind

0:27:31.960 --> 0:27:35.760
<v Speaker 1>of moral crusader, defending women like Evelyn against monsters like

0:27:35.800 --> 0:27:40.560
<v Speaker 1>Stanford White. Harry became, as Evelyn herself put it, America's

0:27:40.560 --> 0:27:44.680
<v Speaker 1>pet murderer. That status, however, was not enough to get

0:27:44.720 --> 0:27:47.919
<v Speaker 1>him acquitted. Surprisingly enough, even though he went and shot

0:27:47.920 --> 0:27:51.879
<v Speaker 1>a man in cold blood in front of a thousand people,

0:27:52.600 --> 0:27:55.240
<v Speaker 1>it was a hung jury. In April nineteen o seven,

0:27:55.359 --> 0:27:58.760
<v Speaker 1>after forty seven hours of deliberations, the jury announced it

0:27:58.800 --> 0:28:05.119
<v Speaker 1>was hopelessly deadlocked. Guarding the guilt of Harry Thaw imagine

0:28:05.160 --> 0:28:07.359
<v Speaker 1>if there had been a second O. J. Simpson trial,

0:28:07.880 --> 0:28:11.960
<v Speaker 1>could the nation have handled another such spectacle well. In January,

0:28:12.880 --> 0:28:15.960
<v Speaker 1>less than a year after the hung jury, everyone reconvened

0:28:16.000 --> 0:28:19.080
<v Speaker 1>for the second trial of Harry k Thaw. This time,

0:28:19.119 --> 0:28:22.159
<v Speaker 1>Harry's counsel was not going to take anything off the table.

0:28:22.359 --> 0:28:25.520
<v Speaker 1>The next lawyer convinced mother thought, if you don't allow

0:28:25.640 --> 0:28:29.080
<v Speaker 1>us to do to go with the insanity plea, he

0:28:29.119 --> 0:28:32.480
<v Speaker 1>will be convicted. Make no bones about it. He is

0:28:32.520 --> 0:28:34.359
<v Speaker 1>going to be convicted, and he will go to the

0:28:34.359 --> 0:28:37.720
<v Speaker 1>electric chair. Pleading insanity was not much of a stretch either.

0:28:38.080 --> 0:28:40.680
<v Speaker 1>Harry had such a smart gesh board of illnesses it

0:28:40.760 --> 0:28:43.600
<v Speaker 1>was almost like where do you begin with this? And

0:28:43.680 --> 0:28:47.360
<v Speaker 1>so they came up with the term of a brainstorm

0:28:47.400 --> 0:28:51.760
<v Speaker 1>that Harry was suffering from a temporary brainstorm after Evelyn

0:28:51.760 --> 0:28:55.360
<v Speaker 1>had told him one too many times about the her

0:28:55.400 --> 0:28:59.320
<v Speaker 1>affair with White. But proving temporary insanity or a brainstorm

0:28:59.600 --> 0:29:02.120
<v Speaker 1>was a look at matter. You know, it was unusual.

0:29:02.160 --> 0:29:04.920
<v Speaker 1>This whole notion of the insanity defense was not something

0:29:04.960 --> 0:29:09.640
<v Speaker 1>that was really well known in there were such a

0:29:09.640 --> 0:29:12.320
<v Speaker 1>a bias against the notion of any kind of mental illness,

0:29:12.320 --> 0:29:14.600
<v Speaker 1>of any of insanity. You know, this is the age

0:29:14.640 --> 0:29:17.120
<v Speaker 1>where people would be locked up away from side. There

0:29:17.160 --> 0:29:19.520
<v Speaker 1>was no attempt to try to cure people of mental illnesses.

0:29:20.040 --> 0:29:22.560
<v Speaker 1>At this point. Thaw and his family pulled out all

0:29:22.600 --> 0:29:26.920
<v Speaker 1>the stops when it came to demonstrating thaws mental instability. Fortunately,

0:29:27.200 --> 0:29:29.800
<v Speaker 1>there were plenty of witnesses willing to testify to it.

0:29:30.280 --> 0:29:35.160
<v Speaker 1>Simon Botts again, the defense was really to present witnesses

0:29:35.400 --> 0:29:38.920
<v Speaker 1>from way way back, many many witnesses from all different

0:29:38.960 --> 0:29:43.760
<v Speaker 1>periods of Harry Thaw's life who would testify to Thor's

0:29:43.840 --> 0:29:48.640
<v Speaker 1>eccentric and irrational, apparently irrational behavior. And so you would

0:29:48.680 --> 0:29:52.000
<v Speaker 1>have nursemaids who would say that when Harry was a

0:29:52.080 --> 0:29:55.760
<v Speaker 1>child he was uncontrollable. You would have teachers come in

0:29:56.480 --> 0:29:59.840
<v Speaker 1>from his schools who were saying that he never learned anything,

0:30:00.080 --> 0:30:02.640
<v Speaker 1>so on and so forth. But what was truly insane

0:30:02.680 --> 0:30:05.000
<v Speaker 1>was the amount of money that Thaw's family spent on

0:30:05.040 --> 0:30:08.080
<v Speaker 1>a team of twelve expert witnesses. It costs close to

0:30:08.120 --> 0:30:10.400
<v Speaker 1>one thousand dollars a day for each of the dozen

0:30:10.440 --> 0:30:14.160
<v Speaker 1>psychiatric experts. The defense desperately wanted to show that Thaw

0:30:14.320 --> 0:30:18.960
<v Speaker 1>was temporarily unmoored from reality. That his unstable personality merely

0:30:19.000 --> 0:30:22.320
<v Speaker 1>acted impulsively when he was confronted by his wife's mistreatment

0:30:22.360 --> 0:30:25.520
<v Speaker 1>at the hands of Stanford White. The real sticking point

0:30:26.000 --> 0:30:29.280
<v Speaker 1>was whether Thaw planned White's murder. It's very difficult to

0:30:29.280 --> 0:30:33.280
<v Speaker 1>know whether the murder was premeditated, and it's an important point,

0:30:33.320 --> 0:30:36.960
<v Speaker 1>of course, because it was premeditated and it's intentional than

0:30:37.080 --> 0:30:40.479
<v Speaker 1>Harry Thorne knows what he's doing. Thaw was obsessed with

0:30:40.520 --> 0:30:43.720
<v Speaker 1>Stanford White and often had him followed by detectives. He

0:30:43.720 --> 0:30:45.840
<v Speaker 1>almost certainly knew that White would be present at the

0:30:45.840 --> 0:30:48.960
<v Speaker 1>show that night. He carried a gun inside a heavy

0:30:49.000 --> 0:30:53.720
<v Speaker 1>overcoat on a sweltering summer evening. But Thaw also started

0:30:53.720 --> 0:30:56.120
<v Speaker 1>to leave the theater that night with Evelyn before he

0:30:56.160 --> 0:30:59.120
<v Speaker 1>turned and decided to go after White. And there was

0:30:59.160 --> 0:31:01.560
<v Speaker 1>no question about his motive for the murder, and that

0:31:01.640 --> 0:31:04.840
<v Speaker 1>he did it in a fit of rage. This time,

0:31:04.880 --> 0:31:08.080
<v Speaker 1>the jury deliberated for just twenty four hours. The jury,

0:31:08.120 --> 0:31:11.440
<v Speaker 1>in fact, they agreed with the defense and they came

0:31:11.440 --> 0:31:13.440
<v Speaker 1>back with a verdict that he was not guilty by

0:31:13.440 --> 0:31:18.120
<v Speaker 1>res of insanity. Harry thaws acquittal on grounds of insanity

0:31:18.480 --> 0:31:21.640
<v Speaker 1>was hardly the end of his troubles. He was convinced

0:31:21.640 --> 0:31:23.800
<v Speaker 1>that he would just say he had a temporary brainstorm

0:31:24.000 --> 0:31:26.160
<v Speaker 1>and then he would get off. That was not the case.

0:31:26.200 --> 0:31:28.760
<v Speaker 1>They put him in the in the asylum up state

0:31:28.880 --> 0:31:33.440
<v Speaker 1>for the criminal insane, and it took him another six

0:31:33.760 --> 0:31:36.560
<v Speaker 1>years to get out. It was a very unhappy situation,

0:31:36.600 --> 0:31:39.440
<v Speaker 1>as you can imagine. Varry thought, who of course, thought

0:31:39.480 --> 0:31:41.680
<v Speaker 1>he was perfectly sane and thought he had done the

0:31:41.720 --> 0:31:45.400
<v Speaker 1>world a great favor by killing Statford White. Harry and

0:31:45.440 --> 0:31:49.080
<v Speaker 1>Evelyn eventually divorced after the trial. Her life and career

0:31:49.160 --> 0:31:52.520
<v Speaker 1>would never be the same. She descended into alcoholism and

0:31:52.600 --> 0:31:56.160
<v Speaker 1>drug abuse. She lived with a pet Boa constrictor. She

0:31:56.200 --> 0:32:00.080
<v Speaker 1>went from celebrity to curiosity. For a brief period, she

0:32:00.080 --> 0:32:05.000
<v Speaker 1>went into vaudeville. She was in singing in nightclubs. Um

0:32:05.120 --> 0:32:09.600
<v Speaker 1>She had gotten into a morphine addiction because she had

0:32:09.680 --> 0:32:13.200
<v Speaker 1>hurt herself all those years of modeling she had. She

0:32:13.240 --> 0:32:16.240
<v Speaker 1>had developed problems with her neck in her back before

0:32:16.240 --> 0:32:19.360
<v Speaker 1>her death in nineteen seven. Her life became the basis

0:32:19.400 --> 0:32:21.920
<v Speaker 1>for the nineteen fifty four film The Girl in the

0:32:21.920 --> 0:32:25.560
<v Speaker 1>Red Velvet Swing, starring a young actress named Joan Collins

0:32:25.560 --> 0:32:28.720
<v Speaker 1>as Evelyn Harry Thaw continued to insist that he was

0:32:28.800 --> 0:32:32.200
<v Speaker 1>never crazy long after he was released from the asylum.

0:32:32.320 --> 0:32:34.600
<v Speaker 1>He even wrote a book about it. When I discovered

0:32:34.640 --> 0:32:39.280
<v Speaker 1>this transcript the original typed manuscript of his book, it

0:32:39.360 --> 0:32:41.360
<v Speaker 1>has all of his notes and more Ginnale on it

0:32:41.440 --> 0:32:45.480
<v Speaker 1>and scrawled across it in giant letters, he wrote, I

0:32:45.520 --> 0:32:50.400
<v Speaker 1>was not insane, which I just think is just hilarious.

0:32:53.400 --> 0:32:55.680
<v Speaker 1>The case of Harry Thaw was not the first celebrity

0:32:55.680 --> 0:32:58.840
<v Speaker 1>love triangle to end in murder and captivate the American

0:32:58.880 --> 0:33:02.440
<v Speaker 1>public with illegal to fans based on insanity. Harry Thos

0:33:02.520 --> 0:33:05.080
<v Speaker 1>lawyers had a precedent to point to from nearly half

0:33:05.080 --> 0:33:08.760
<v Speaker 1>a century earlier. Next week, on the thread the murder

0:33:08.800 --> 0:33:11.920
<v Speaker 1>of Barton Key, the Playboys, son of Francis Scott Key,

0:33:12.120 --> 0:33:14.960
<v Speaker 1>the author of the American National Anthem, it was said

0:33:15.000 --> 0:33:18.240
<v Speaker 1>that he once reportedly bragged that he only needed thirty

0:33:18.280 --> 0:33:21.240
<v Speaker 1>six hours with any woman to get her to do

0:33:21.320 --> 0:33:24.000
<v Speaker 1>whatever he wanted. But one of those women happened to

0:33:24.040 --> 0:33:28.160
<v Speaker 1>be the wife of a very powerful and mentally unstable congressman.

0:33:28.320 --> 0:33:31.160
<v Speaker 1>People often portray Ki is a victim, but yeah, you

0:33:31.200 --> 0:33:33.280
<v Speaker 1>know Key, you could kind of argue was a little

0:33:33.320 --> 0:33:36.720
<v Speaker 1>bit of a scumbag too, and I think, uh that

0:33:36.960 --> 0:33:39.560
<v Speaker 1>this might be one of those stories where there really

0:33:39.600 --> 0:33:42.200
<v Speaker 1>are no good guys. Barton Key was shot to death

0:33:42.200 --> 0:33:45.440
<v Speaker 1>in broad daylight by a sitting US congressman just yards

0:33:45.480 --> 0:33:47.720
<v Speaker 1>from the White House. Yeah. I mean literally, if it

0:33:47.800 --> 0:33:50.840
<v Speaker 1>was an episode of House of Cards, you wouldn't believe it, right,

0:33:51.320 --> 0:33:59.520
<v Speaker 1>But it really happened. I heard him says, good, that

0:33:59.800 --> 0:34:03.600
<v Speaker 1>is rubbish. Memersla wars met us. Now now my heart

0:34:03.720 --> 0:34:07.200
<v Speaker 1>is made us up of stuff. It mols beat your west.

0:34:07.560 --> 0:34:17.440
<v Speaker 1>A pretty girl can't look hi way we do? Oh good?

0:34:17.520 --> 0:34:21.560
<v Speaker 1>Love a million girls and never girl a twin. I

0:34:21.560 --> 0:34:26.000
<v Speaker 1>would love a jarnest girl and ask you more. I

0:34:26.040 --> 0:34:29.440
<v Speaker 1>would love a germ girl, a girl with golden girls?

0:34:29.760 --> 0:34:32.560
<v Speaker 1>What a fact? That thing that I would love about

0:34:32.680 --> 0:34:36.640
<v Speaker 1>the million girls. The Threat is produced by Robert Coolo,

0:34:36.800 --> 0:34:41.160
<v Speaker 1>Sofia Perpetua and me Sean braswell. Chris Hoff engineered our show.

0:34:41.920 --> 0:34:44.600
<v Speaker 1>This episode features raw Hide performing I Could Love a

0:34:44.640 --> 0:34:47.640
<v Speaker 1>Million Girls. To learn more about the Thread, visit AUSI

0:34:47.719 --> 0:34:51.000
<v Speaker 1>dot com, Slash the Threat all one word, and make

0:34:51.000 --> 0:34:53.960
<v Speaker 1>sure to subscribe to the thread on Apple podcast, follow

0:34:54.040 --> 0:34:56.439
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0:34:56.440 --> 0:34:59.400
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0:34:59.440 --> 0:35:03.000
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0:35:03.040 --> 0:35:06.120
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