WEBVTT - The Bathysphere: William Beebe Descends 

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff

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<v Speaker 1>Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind.

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<v Speaker 1>My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. And

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<v Speaker 1>we're back with part two of our two part exploration

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<v Speaker 1>of the Depths of the Sea, the History of Knowledge

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<v Speaker 1>and Exploration of the Deep Sea. And this this time

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<v Speaker 1>we're really going to be focusing in on William B. B.

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<v Speaker 1>That's right. We we alluded to him at the beginning

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<v Speaker 1>of the last episode. So he was an American naturalist, explorer, author. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>He lived from eighteen seventy seven to nineteen sixty two,

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<v Speaker 1>and uh, he was He was a very interesting fellow,

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<v Speaker 1>just to put him mildly. Before there was Neil deGrasse

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<v Speaker 1>Tyson or Carl Sagan or even Jacques Cousteau, there was

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<v Speaker 1>William Beebe, who some writers have called the first celebrity scientist.

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<v Speaker 1>So he he traveled around and lectured, he wrote books,

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<v Speaker 1>he recruited, we received quite a bit of media coverage,

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<v Speaker 1>and he was actually in writing books. He was a

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<v Speaker 1>good writers. This thing that helps. Yeah, he was a

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<v Speaker 1>good popularizer of science. He was a great science communicator.

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<v Speaker 1>Before this was really that much of a thing. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I often think of Darwin as a great science communicator,

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<v Speaker 1>but yeah, Beebe really took it to the next level,

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<v Speaker 1>especially as we'll talk about in a minute, by employing

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<v Speaker 1>all kinds of people to help spread the message of

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<v Speaker 1>scientific discoveries in ways that are easily digestible to the public. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>So he he was an ornithologist at the New York

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<v Speaker 1>Zoological Society and uh he he actually left college before

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<v Speaker 1>completing his degree in order to to to work, uh

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<v Speaker 1>for for the society. But he just he's one of

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<v Speaker 1>these guys who just seemed to really just ascend once

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<v Speaker 1>he you know, once he hit the ground working he

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<v Speaker 1>was he was have ended up being becoming the founder

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<v Speaker 1>of the Society's Department of Tropical Research. And he conducted

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<v Speaker 1>he conducted research, it's worth noting across two world wars

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<v Speaker 1>and the Great Depression, Like that was the time period,

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<v Speaker 1>the trying time period, a time when most of the

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<v Speaker 1>energy in the world seemed to be aimed at either

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<v Speaker 1>conducting warfare, surviving warfare, surviving economic depression. Uh. But he

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<v Speaker 1>was able to successfully carry out a great deal of

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<v Speaker 1>research and uh and then communicate the Department of the

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<v Speaker 1>Tropical researches work as well, and to do this he

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<v Speaker 1>enlisted not only scientists but also historians, writers, and artists.

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<v Speaker 1>And by this I mean he took artists with him

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<v Speaker 1>on his expeditions, generating some really captivating artwork, and b

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<v Speaker 1>B himself sketched the creatures that he saw in the depths.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean it's really kind of surprising, however, though, that that,

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<v Speaker 1>given that he was such a celebrity at the time, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>that that we don't see him celebrated as much in

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<v Speaker 1>pop culture today. Like he's certainly again he's remembered. It's

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<v Speaker 1>not like he's forgotten and lost to history. But you

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<v Speaker 1>would just think that he would have more of a

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<v Speaker 1>like a tesla status today. Yeah. Yeah, I mean I

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<v Speaker 1>will say that again. Before we went to this recent

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<v Speaker 1>exhibit at the American Museum and Natural History of New

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<v Speaker 1>York about the Unseen Depths of the Ocean, had some

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<v Speaker 1>stuff about BB before that. I think maybe I was

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit aware of him, but didn't really know anything.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's crazy because his life and his work was

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<v Speaker 1>so interesting. Yeah. I mean, for starters, he influenced the

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<v Speaker 1>number of notable people, um for instance, EO. Wilson who

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<v Speaker 1>we've discussed on the show before. Uh has has pointed

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<v Speaker 1>to William B. B as someone who inspired his scientific career. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>there are a lot of interesting things about Bebe's legacy.

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<v Speaker 1>One cool one that does get mentioned sometimes is the

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<v Speaker 1>fact that he was criticized during his life for hiring

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<v Speaker 1>and mentoring female researchers, which a lot of irritable sexist

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<v Speaker 1>establishment scientists of the time thought was an indication that

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<v Speaker 1>his work was not serious or was unprofessional. Uh. But

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<v Speaker 1>of course they were wrong, right. Bbe helped give a

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<v Speaker 1>leg up to great scientists like Joscelyn Crane, who studied,

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<v Speaker 1>among other things, invertebrate ethology, so the behavior of invertebrates,

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<v Speaker 1>with a special focus on fiddler crabs, and also the

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<v Speaker 1>explorer and research scientists Gloria Hollister, who pioneered lab techniques

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<v Speaker 1>for preparing marine specimens, and she herself actually performed dives

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<v Speaker 1>in the capsule that we're gonna be talking about more

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<v Speaker 1>in this episode of the Bathosphere, the steel ball that

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<v Speaker 1>finally took us down into the depths. Some of the

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<v Speaker 1>females he employed were also artists as well. There's actually

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<v Speaker 1>a wonderful New York Times article that came out, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>just last year about an exhibition of various works from

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<v Speaker 1>this period that I recommend everyone check out it. If

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<v Speaker 1>you just look for William Bbe Department of Trapical Research illustrations,

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<v Speaker 1>you'll find it. And there's some just some fabulous illustrations

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<v Speaker 1>that say that the bathosphere descending into the depths with

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<v Speaker 1>strange creatures swirling around it. Yeah, if you get a chance,

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<v Speaker 1>you should look up illustrations. Especially I would say of

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<v Speaker 1>the artist Elsa Bostelmann, who she was one of the

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<v Speaker 1>artists who accompanied his research, and she sketched and painted

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<v Speaker 1>what bb And and his companion, notice Bartan saw in

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<v Speaker 1>the deep from the bathosphere, which we're gonna be talking

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<v Speaker 1>about more later. But her work is just beautiful and

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<v Speaker 1>weird and superb. It's uh, it's excellent science art. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>For reasons that will become obvious. Uh, as we proceed

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<v Speaker 1>of photography or certainly film was just not an option

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<v Speaker 1>aboard the bathosphere, so they had to depend on sketches, uh.

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<v Speaker 1>And and also just you have to consider the time

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<v Speaker 1>during which all this have taken place. For instance, one

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<v Speaker 1>of his dives was actually broadcast on NBC Radio, which

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<v Speaker 1>is a testament to the popularity of his work, but

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<v Speaker 1>also just shows you the limitations of the visual technology

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<v Speaker 1>at the time. Now, of course, another great weird note

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<v Speaker 1>in pop culture is that BB's elaborator Otis Barton, who

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<v Speaker 1>was his his co pilot in the Bathosphere and one

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<v Speaker 1>of the people, I think the designer, the main designer

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<v Speaker 1>of the Bathosphere, made a movie, made a movie based

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<v Speaker 1>on what they did. Yeah, Titans of the Deep. And

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<v Speaker 1>if you look at the poster art for this film,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'll try to include it on the landing page

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<v Speaker 1>for this episode, is stuff to blow your mind. It

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<v Speaker 1>creates certain expectations of the content. Yeah, I will say

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<v Speaker 1>it's so it's supposed to be like a documentary film,

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<v Speaker 1>right that they made it as a documentary apparently, And

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<v Speaker 1>even though it's like BB is mentioned on the on

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<v Speaker 1>the poster, it's really apparently. BB wasn't himself super involved

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<v Speaker 1>in the production. Yeah, I've seen it actually described as

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<v Speaker 1>more of like an action movie or an exploitation horror movie.

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<v Speaker 1>I couldn't. I couldn't find this movie, so I don't

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't get to watch it, Yeah I would. I

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<v Speaker 1>was not able to find, uh, even any footage from

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<v Speaker 1>it or a trailer or what would pass for a trailer.

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<v Speaker 1>But you can definitely get a say of the vibe

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<v Speaker 1>they were going for if you just look at the poster,

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<v Speaker 1>which of course has like a vague whale shaped sea

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<v Speaker 1>monster with this big saw toothed face and then a

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<v Speaker 1>dude with a harpoon poise to hit it. It looks

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<v Speaker 1>in composition like the much later poster for the movie

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<v Speaker 1>Journey to the Seventh Planet, which is this nineteen sixty

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<v Speaker 1>two sci fi barbecue about a bunch of astronauts who

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<v Speaker 1>fly out to explore Uranus and then get this They

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<v Speaker 1>essentially end up with a d intellectualized version of the

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<v Speaker 1>plot from Solaris and the movie stars of course, John

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<v Speaker 1>agar Ah, yes a frequent a frequent name for anyone's

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<v Speaker 1>who's ever plunged the depths of of B movies from

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<v Speaker 1>that era. But if you look at this poster for

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<v Speaker 1>Journey to the Seventh Planet, it's I don't know if

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<v Speaker 1>it was actually inspired by Titans of the Deep, but

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<v Speaker 1>they look very similar to me. I also found an

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<v Speaker 1>image this is an advertisement. But it turns out even

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<v Speaker 1>Otis Barton, who accompanied William BB in the Bathosphere, he

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<v Speaker 1>is famous enough at the time to appear in a

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<v Speaker 1>camel advertisement for Camel cigarettes where you see him featured

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<v Speaker 1>there and he's saying, I smoke as many camels as

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<v Speaker 1>I like. They don't give me jittery nerves. Camels have

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<v Speaker 1>a have a swell taste, mild and yet with rich,

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<v Speaker 1>mellow flavor. I smoked them all in the bathosphere. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't. I do not think the bathosphere is a

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<v Speaker 1>good smoking environment. Two packs per dive. Well, we've been

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<v Speaker 1>teasing it enough. I think maybe we should take a

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<v Speaker 1>quick break and then when we come back, we should

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<v Speaker 1>discuss the bathosphere itself. All right, than alright, we're back, alright,

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<v Speaker 1>So I will refer you to an image like a

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<v Speaker 1>photograph of the bathosphere on the landing page for this

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<v Speaker 1>episode is stuff to blow your mind dot com. But

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<v Speaker 1>we're also going to describe it for you here, so

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<v Speaker 1>no need to pull the car over. What happ you

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<v Speaker 1>depending on how you're listening to us. So as you're

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<v Speaker 1>trying to imagine the bathosphere, it's probably best to dismiss

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<v Speaker 1>some of your more modern and TV friendly notions of

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<v Speaker 1>exploratory submarine means, because the bathosphere was less of a

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<v Speaker 1>submarine and more of just a death trap. Right. It's like,

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<v Speaker 1>would you like to get inside a bowling ball and

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<v Speaker 1>go to the bottom of the ocean. Yeah, a steel

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<v Speaker 1>ball that men climb inside and then it is lowered

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<v Speaker 1>into the ocean depths. Let's let's ask some questions. Does

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<v Speaker 1>this have a propeller? No? Does it have fins? Does

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<v Speaker 1>it have robotic arms? Does it have really anything on

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<v Speaker 1>the outside other than just a steel sphere? I mean, basically,

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<v Speaker 1>it is a steel bowling ball that men climb inside

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<v Speaker 1>through what what Bby referred to just as the door,

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<v Speaker 1>and then it has even door is a little misleading, right, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean it's not really a door. They got in

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<v Speaker 1>through a hole that was then bolted shut, right, See,

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<v Speaker 1>its sealed shut like a like an iron casket. And

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<v Speaker 1>then it has these three, uh the three portals that

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<v Speaker 1>they look out off. It look kind of like stubby

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<v Speaker 1>eyes talks. So, Robert, how big was the bathosphere that

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<v Speaker 1>the two people got into? Well, here's a here's a

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<v Speaker 1>quick quote from Baby from his biography Half Mile Down,

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<v Speaker 1>which which we're gonna refer to a lot. If if

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<v Speaker 1>if we read a quote quote from Baby in this

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<v Speaker 1>and we don't fully attribute it. It's from half mile down.

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<v Speaker 1>Baby says. It was not as tall as a man,

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<v Speaker 1>measuring only four ft nine inches in diameter, but its

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<v Speaker 1>walls were everywhere an inch and a quarter thick, and

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<v Speaker 1>it weighed five thousand, four hundred pounds. A first casting

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<v Speaker 1>had weighed twice as much, but it would have been

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<v Speaker 1>too heavy for any of the winches available in Bermuda.

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<v Speaker 1>And was jumped. Now about this steel ball. If you

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<v Speaker 1>don't have an intuitive sense of numbers to physical scale,

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<v Speaker 1>I want to pause for a second and dwell on

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<v Speaker 1>how tiny this is. You can buy beach balls bigger

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<v Speaker 1>than this undersea exploration vessel. That's crazy. You included a

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<v Speaker 1>picture here on our notes showing what a sixty inch

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<v Speaker 1>beach ball looks like next to presumably an average sized individual.

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<v Speaker 1>I guess this is probably a tall guy, but but

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<v Speaker 1>still imagine two of him inside of it. That's unbelievable.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's bigger than the bathosphere was. This was this

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<v Speaker 1>thing was tiny. People like they were crammed inside. But

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<v Speaker 1>there was a reason it had to be that small, right, Yeah, Because,

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<v Speaker 1>as William J. Broad points out in his book The

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<v Speaker 1>Universe Below, the smaller the sphere the greater strength of

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<v Speaker 1>its walls. If you had more space in there, you

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<v Speaker 1>need thicker walls, which would of course mean increasing the

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<v Speaker 1>weight of the thing. So yeah, we run into the

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<v Speaker 1>problem with with with the winches that we've already discussed.

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<v Speaker 1>It's almost like a parallel of the problems of shielding

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<v Speaker 1>from radiation in space, right, Like, you want to send

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<v Speaker 1>up a spacecraft that will protect the astronauts with really

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<v Speaker 1>thick shielding in the walls, but you've got a problem

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<v Speaker 1>with getting so much mass up into space that you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you could have all these really really thick walls. It's

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<v Speaker 1>like a parallel to that. You know, you you could

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<v Speaker 1>have really really thick walls to make sure you're super

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<v Speaker 1>protected from the pressure and you've got enough room to

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<v Speaker 1>move around, but it gets harder and harder to get

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<v Speaker 1>you down into the depths and back up safely if

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<v Speaker 1>you do that. Yeah. So this was designed by bb

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<v Speaker 1>an American engineer Otis Barton, who already mentioned, and it

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<v Speaker 1>featured three viewing portals, and these were This was not glass.

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<v Speaker 1>You couldn't just look out just normal glass because it

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<v Speaker 1>needed to withstand the pressure. This was fused quartz eight

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<v Speaker 1>inches in diameter and three inches thick, and the fittings again,

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<v Speaker 1>they looked like stubby eye stalks. It's like a three

0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:29.640
<v Speaker 1>eyed monster. Yeah, and quartz was used because it was

0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:34.320
<v Speaker 1>the quote strongest transparent substance known and it transmits all

0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:38.160
<v Speaker 1>wavelengths of light. Now, earlier we mentioned the door that

0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:41.200
<v Speaker 1>wasn't really a door. What does BB say about the door?

0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:44.080
<v Speaker 1>He describes it as a quote round four hundred pound

0:12:44.160 --> 0:12:47.320
<v Speaker 1>lid that quote had to be lifted on and off

0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:50.520
<v Speaker 1>by a block and tackle and fitted snugly over ten

0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:53.840
<v Speaker 1>large bolts around the manhole. The ladder just big enough

0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:56.840
<v Speaker 1>to permit the passage of a slender human body. Bebe

0:12:56.960 --> 0:12:59.000
<v Speaker 1>was a very slender guy, we should point out. I've

0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:03.000
<v Speaker 1>seen pictures of him and he is spind lee. Now,

0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:05.600
<v Speaker 1>on top of that, let's discuss some of the other

0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:08.640
<v Speaker 1>attributes of physical attributes of the bathisphere. It had a

0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:12.000
<v Speaker 1>single external light, just one thousand wats and one light,

0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:14.280
<v Speaker 1>and you flipped it on or off from inside. And

0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:18.400
<v Speaker 1>the sphere was lowered on a single steel, non twisting

0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:21.840
<v Speaker 1>cable nearly an inch in diameter with a breaking strain

0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:26.480
<v Speaker 1>of twenty nine tons, or a dozen bathispheres Okay, So

0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:28.800
<v Speaker 1>they wanted to be real safe because of course, if

0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:31.640
<v Speaker 1>that cable breaks, you're in a world a hurt. Yeah,

0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:34.640
<v Speaker 1>you're you're done for, and you have to worry about

0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:37.120
<v Speaker 1>more than just the what happens if the cable breaks,

0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:38.719
<v Speaker 1>So you have to worry about, well, what if they're

0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:41.040
<v Speaker 1>stormy weather, et cetera. Now you mentioned there's a light

0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:42.559
<v Speaker 1>on the thing, so that means they got to get

0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:44.760
<v Speaker 1>power down there somehow. Yeah, So they had an additional

0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:48.800
<v Speaker 1>cable that carried both the electrical power and the telephone wires. Oh,

0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:50.560
<v Speaker 1>telephone wires. So they had to have some way to

0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:52.960
<v Speaker 1>communicate with the service, right, I assume they couldn't just

0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:56.120
<v Speaker 1>tug on the cable. Yeah, I don't think that would work.

0:13:56.600 --> 0:13:58.680
<v Speaker 1>But but yeah, this is this is kind of the

0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:02.439
<v Speaker 1>limits of their connection to the surface. They had electricity

0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:05.080
<v Speaker 1>coming down, and they had that telephone wire. They did

0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:09.640
<v Speaker 1>not have an air tube coming down. But of course

0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:13.679
<v Speaker 1>they had to breathe. So the bathmosphere included oxygen tanks

0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:18.240
<v Speaker 1>with automatic valves up that provided uh, the atmosphere, and

0:14:18.240 --> 0:14:20.560
<v Speaker 1>then they just had trays of chemical setting out. I

0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:23.280
<v Speaker 1>believe it was soda, lime, and calcium chloride. Yeah, and

0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:26.640
<v Speaker 1>this was to absorb moisture and carbon dioxide because you

0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:28.400
<v Speaker 1>don't just need fresh air to breathe in, you need

0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:31.240
<v Speaker 1>to scrub the carbon dioxide that you're breathing out. Yeah.

0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:33.080
<v Speaker 1>I would, I would just want to drive home. How

0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:37.480
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's an amazing invention, but how dangerously crude

0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:41.360
<v Speaker 1>it can it can feel. It reminds me of there

0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:47.120
<v Speaker 1>was the Night film? Was it The Voyagers? Explorers? Yes,

0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:50.480
<v Speaker 1>where the kids build this kind of spaceship that sets

0:14:50.520 --> 0:14:54.720
<v Speaker 1>inside a like a magic force field sphere. But they

0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:57.040
<v Speaker 1>just build it, right, They just constructed from what they

0:14:57.080 --> 0:14:59.760
<v Speaker 1>have at hand, And there's a there's a similar vibe

0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:02.600
<v Speaker 1>with the bath Isphere like that. There's just it's just

0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:06.640
<v Speaker 1>so ballsy to imagine climbing in this thing and to

0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:09.760
<v Speaker 1>the death. I mean, it is a large ball. It

0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:14.400
<v Speaker 1>is a it is a steel ball. Yes, and even

0:15:14.400 --> 0:15:17.120
<v Speaker 1>though it holds two divers and is essentially a two

0:15:17.120 --> 0:15:21.360
<v Speaker 1>man crew. Uh. BB says that the total crew required

0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:24.600
<v Speaker 1>to support this thing, uh, most of which you're going

0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:27.800
<v Speaker 1>to be members on the surface. Uh, it comes to

0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:31.720
<v Speaker 1>around twenty eight people total, so two under the water,

0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:36.120
<v Speaker 1>above the water. All right, So let's say you're William Beebe,

0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:39.200
<v Speaker 1>and you're like, Okay, I've got a steel ball to Diane, Um,

0:15:39.520 --> 0:15:41.160
<v Speaker 1>where where are we going to put this down in

0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:43.520
<v Speaker 1>the water. Well, they set their side some the deep

0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:46.640
<v Speaker 1>seas off the coast of Bermuda, Uh, specifically a circular

0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:49.880
<v Speaker 1>area about eight miles in diameter near non Such Island,

0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:53.880
<v Speaker 1>and here the depth reached about a mile. The first

0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:57.720
<v Speaker 1>dive occurred in nineteen thirty. By June eleven, nineteen thirty,

0:15:57.760 --> 0:16:01.360
<v Speaker 1>they've reached the depth of feet or four ds. In in

0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:04.240
<v Speaker 1>in n four they reached three thousand feet or nine

0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:08.160
<v Speaker 1>d and that was, of course, by far the world record.

0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:10.760
<v Speaker 1>That they went much lower than anybody had ever been

0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:13.600
<v Speaker 1>able to explore before. Yeah, they were really breaking new

0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:19.000
<v Speaker 1>grounds with this. Now, the bathosphere greatly improved humanity's ability

0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:22.040
<v Speaker 1>to explore the depths UH. But again it was it

0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:26.120
<v Speaker 1>was ultimately a risky vessel to use, and it was

0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:30.440
<v Speaker 1>soon replaced by safer designs, including the bath Escape, which

0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:36.040
<v Speaker 1>positioned a traditional bathosphere beneath a large float, and even

0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:39.040
<v Speaker 1>the likes of the modern Deep Sea Challenger famously piloted

0:16:39.080 --> 0:16:43.200
<v Speaker 1>by James Cameron that boasts a pilot sphere position beneath

0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:45.360
<v Speaker 1>the rest of the vessel. So you can think of

0:16:45.440 --> 0:16:50.600
<v Speaker 1>post bathosphere designs as just basically being the bathosphere attached

0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:56.880
<v Speaker 1>to a larger system of flotation submarine submarine. Basically like,

0:16:56.960 --> 0:16:59.400
<v Speaker 1>let's attach this to a submarine that has power, that

0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:03.440
<v Speaker 1>has the ability to to to raise and lower itself

0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:07.920
<v Speaker 1>within the water. But the bathosphere was was just the sphere,

0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:12.399
<v Speaker 1>just the this uh, this steel container for the humans

0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:15.000
<v Speaker 1>to descend in. Having your own power really does seem

0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:17.240
<v Speaker 1>to make a difference, right, I mean, there's a huge

0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:20.320
<v Speaker 1>difference between being in a submarine that can move and

0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:22.879
<v Speaker 1>just hanging in a ball on a thread. Yeah, I

0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:26.960
<v Speaker 1>mean just the psychological uh notion here, just the idea

0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:28.920
<v Speaker 1>that they have something if I if I get tired

0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:32.600
<v Speaker 1>of descending into the darkness of the deep sea, then

0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:34.720
<v Speaker 1>I can just I can I can raise myself out

0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:37.200
<v Speaker 1>of this. I have some level of control, and I'm

0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:40.240
<v Speaker 1>not just hoping that everything is going okay up there

0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:42.600
<v Speaker 1>on the surface. Now. Of course, by virtue of the

0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:45.280
<v Speaker 1>fact that bb and his team went deeper than anyone

0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:48.280
<v Speaker 1>ever had before, he got to observe far more than

0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:50.800
<v Speaker 1>anyone ever had before. So I think we should go

0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:54.080
<v Speaker 1>into his scientific observations, and we'll do that right after

0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:59.119
<v Speaker 1>this break. Thank thank alright, we're back. So William bebe

0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:01.280
<v Speaker 1>the modern guilt a mesh. He and his co pilot

0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:05.000
<v Speaker 1>are in the ball in the steel death trap, sinking down,

0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:08.320
<v Speaker 1>down down into the ocean, deeper than anybody's ever gone before,

0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:10.919
<v Speaker 1>and looking out the portholes to see what they can see.

0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:13.600
<v Speaker 1>So let's talk about what they see. What did they

0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:17.840
<v Speaker 1>discover through this research method? Well, BB observed and sketched

0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:20.960
<v Speaker 1>again because cameras of the day were largely useless given

0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:23.879
<v Speaker 1>the conditions of the bathosphere in its environment. But he

0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:28.600
<v Speaker 1>described a world quote stranger than any imagination could have conceived,

0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:31.879
<v Speaker 1>and he writes about it very beautifully. Oh yeah, and

0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:35.159
<v Speaker 1>and he really brought the results between N and n

0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:38.439
<v Speaker 1>b B and his team caught more than a hundred

0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:41.919
<v Speaker 1>and fifteen thousand animals from two hundred and twenty species,

0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:44.919
<v Speaker 1>many many of which were new to science, so they

0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:48.560
<v Speaker 1>were combining different research methods at the same time. Now,

0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:51.199
<v Speaker 1>before we get into some of the specific creatures that

0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:54.840
<v Speaker 1>he saw claim to have seen, uh, we should probably

0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:58.080
<v Speaker 1>just talk about his experience with darkness and light, because

0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:01.080
<v Speaker 1>ultimately that is the how that that's kind of the

0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:05.600
<v Speaker 1>defining experience that he describes. Oh exactly, so Bb Rights quote.

0:19:06.119 --> 0:19:08.600
<v Speaker 1>In the course of the half mile down, although my

0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:12.400
<v Speaker 1>eyes were perfectly dark adapted, I could detect not the

0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:16.439
<v Speaker 1>faintest glimmer of light from seventeen hundred feet down. So,

0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:19.040
<v Speaker 1>as far as the human eye was concerned, conditions of

0:19:19.160 --> 0:19:23.640
<v Speaker 1>absolute darkness existed at these deeper levels. And then he says,

0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:27.320
<v Speaker 1>from seventeen hundred feet down, animal light is the only

0:19:27.440 --> 0:19:30.520
<v Speaker 1>external source of illumination. So of course they did have

0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:32.440
<v Speaker 1>a light they could flip on, but they didn't want

0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:34.200
<v Speaker 1>to do that all the time, right, because that would

0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:37.120
<v Speaker 1>be affecting and changing the environment, So they didn't do

0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:39.800
<v Speaker 1>that always. They would try to see, often just what

0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:42.640
<v Speaker 1>they could see in the dark that was self illuminated.

0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:44.840
<v Speaker 1>And when you go that far down, there actually are

0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:49.199
<v Speaker 1>very many bioluminescent creatures that will illuminate themselves for you

0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:51.200
<v Speaker 1>to see, but they'll also illuminate the water so that

0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:55.320
<v Speaker 1>you can see other animals around them. And bb Rights quote,

0:19:55.760 --> 0:19:59.440
<v Speaker 1>occasionally the head of a fish would appear conspicuously against

0:19:59.440 --> 0:20:03.480
<v Speaker 1>the surround black, illumined by some indirect source of unknown lighting.

0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:07.600
<v Speaker 1>Eyes especially stood out with no definite source of light visible.

0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:10.719
<v Speaker 1>When teeth were thus silhouetted, I knew it was from

0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:14.959
<v Speaker 1>a luminous mucus which covered them. Cheek lights flashed and

0:20:15.040 --> 0:20:19.040
<v Speaker 1>dimmed or vanished, altogether showing some control other than the

0:20:19.119 --> 0:20:23.520
<v Speaker 1>usual disappearance into an opaque epidermal trench. And I should

0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:26.919
<v Speaker 1>mention those last quotes I provided came from a paper

0:20:26.960 --> 0:20:29.720
<v Speaker 1>he published in Proceedings to the National Academy of Sciences

0:20:29.760 --> 0:20:32.359
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen thirty two or thirty three. Yeah, he was

0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:37.919
<v Speaker 1>extremely impressed by the display of bioluminescence as as he descended.

0:20:38.160 --> 0:20:41.320
<v Speaker 1>So he noted the lights of fish, jellies and various

0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:44.560
<v Speaker 1>animals that he couldn't really identify in passing, and it

0:20:44.680 --> 0:20:47.560
<v Speaker 1>was something of a revelation to him. About a third

0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:50.160
<v Speaker 1>of a mile down he saw something that he described

0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:54.520
<v Speaker 1>as a quote pyrotechnic network and was and it was

0:20:54.640 --> 0:20:58.440
<v Speaker 1>quote so delicate and evanescent that its abyssal form is

0:20:58.560 --> 0:21:02.159
<v Speaker 1>quite lost if we ever take get in our nets. So,

0:21:02.200 --> 0:21:04.040
<v Speaker 1>in other words, if we were just to pull this up,

0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:06.960
<v Speaker 1>you know what, what would we have. We would have

0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:09.840
<v Speaker 1>maybe some shriveled mass, but we certainly would not have

0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:14.600
<v Speaker 1>this floating bioluminescent thing that I'm witnessing right now. Well,

0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:17.320
<v Speaker 1>in the last episode we talked about the c cucumber

0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:19.960
<v Speaker 1>that turns to red kool aid. Here you would guess

0:21:20.160 --> 0:21:23.439
<v Speaker 1>turn into Buyo luminescent kool aid. And then there's this,

0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:27.680
<v Speaker 1>there's this, this description of the Abyssle rainbow cars, which

0:21:27.880 --> 0:21:30.919
<v Speaker 1>will come back to later on. He says, at eleven

0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:34.400
<v Speaker 1>seventeen o'clock, I turned the light on suddenly and saw

0:21:34.440 --> 0:21:37.159
<v Speaker 1>a strange quartet of fish to which I have not

0:21:37.280 --> 0:21:41.000
<v Speaker 1>been able to fit genus or family, shape, size, color,

0:21:41.320 --> 0:21:44.879
<v Speaker 1>and one fin I saw clearly. But Ourbissle rainbow cars

0:21:44.960 --> 0:21:47.080
<v Speaker 1>is as far as I dare go. You other words

0:21:47.119 --> 0:21:48.639
<v Speaker 1>these saying that's as far as I dare go, and

0:21:48.640 --> 0:21:53.159
<v Speaker 1>classifying it and naming it quote. And they may be

0:21:53.280 --> 0:21:56.920
<v Speaker 1>anything but cars about four inches overall. They were slender

0:21:56.960 --> 0:22:00.960
<v Speaker 1>and stiff, with long, sharply pointed jaws. And it's worth

0:22:01.000 --> 0:22:04.200
<v Speaker 1>noting no one has ever captured a specimen quite like this,

0:22:04.400 --> 0:22:07.760
<v Speaker 1>nor seen it uh. And this this is one of

0:22:08.080 --> 0:22:13.440
<v Speaker 1>the mysteries that arises from William Beebe's observations. Specimens that

0:22:14.320 --> 0:22:18.520
<v Speaker 1>have have not been caught or even witnessed again, and

0:22:18.520 --> 0:22:21.240
<v Speaker 1>we're left to wonder what what did he see? Right?

0:22:21.320 --> 0:22:24.520
<v Speaker 1>Did he have access somehow to to seeing things no

0:22:24.600 --> 0:22:27.800
<v Speaker 1>one has actually seen since then? Or was he mistaken?

0:22:27.880 --> 0:22:30.200
<v Speaker 1>Did he think he was seeing something that he actually

0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:32.399
<v Speaker 1>wasn't or was he making it up? I mean, I

0:22:32.720 --> 0:22:34.320
<v Speaker 1>don't want to think he was making it up, but

0:22:34.320 --> 0:22:36.720
<v Speaker 1>I guess we have to consider that as possibility. Yeah,

0:22:36.760 --> 0:22:39.080
<v Speaker 1>and we'll we'll touch on that some of the thinking

0:22:39.160 --> 0:22:41.240
<v Speaker 1>on that a little later. But but one thing we

0:22:41.240 --> 0:22:43.200
<v Speaker 1>should go ahead and drive home here is that again,

0:22:43.280 --> 0:22:46.879
<v Speaker 1>the bathosphere did not have an engine on it, It

0:22:46.920 --> 0:22:50.000
<v Speaker 1>did not have propellers. It was a very silent affair

0:22:50.320 --> 0:22:54.600
<v Speaker 1>in a realm where we're sound truly carries and can

0:22:54.640 --> 0:22:59.080
<v Speaker 1>have damaging effects, especially our modern uh our modern state

0:22:59.080 --> 0:23:03.160
<v Speaker 1>of affairs with with with ships and sonar. But even

0:23:03.240 --> 0:23:08.200
<v Speaker 1>just a noisy submarine would have potentially scared away various species.

0:23:08.400 --> 0:23:10.520
<v Speaker 1>So there is an argument to be made here that

0:23:10.600 --> 0:23:14.760
<v Speaker 1>the bathosphere, as it's descending rather silently and at times

0:23:14.880 --> 0:23:19.920
<v Speaker 1>uh an incomplete darkness, would have attracted or been or

0:23:19.960 --> 0:23:23.520
<v Speaker 1>at least would not have have frightened away species that

0:23:23.520 --> 0:23:27.359
<v Speaker 1>would recoil from a modern exploratory submarine. That's interesting, and

0:23:27.400 --> 0:23:30.040
<v Speaker 1>that's that's a good point to keep in mind as

0:23:30.040 --> 0:23:31.920
<v Speaker 1>we go on and discuss some more of the things

0:23:31.960 --> 0:23:34.640
<v Speaker 1>he recorded seeing. I think if you have the ability

0:23:34.760 --> 0:23:36.919
<v Speaker 1>while you're listening, you should look up some of the

0:23:37.000 --> 0:23:39.720
<v Speaker 1>artworks of Elsa bo Stelman. She was again one of

0:23:39.720 --> 0:23:42.480
<v Speaker 1>the artists who was doing sketches for for BB's team,

0:23:42.680 --> 0:23:44.679
<v Speaker 1>and so it would be great to have some of

0:23:44.720 --> 0:23:47.040
<v Speaker 1>those in front of your eyes while we're talking here. Now,

0:23:47.080 --> 0:23:51.280
<v Speaker 1>another variety of fish that BB reported seeing are the dragonfish.

0:23:51.440 --> 0:23:54.800
<v Speaker 1>Now these are different than sea dragons, right quote a

0:23:54.840 --> 0:23:59.120
<v Speaker 1>six inch dragonfish or still Maya's past. Lights first visible

0:23:59.400 --> 0:24:03.600
<v Speaker 1>than three seconds of searchlight for identification, then lights alone.

0:24:04.000 --> 0:24:06.480
<v Speaker 1>And there seemed no reason why we should not swing

0:24:06.560 --> 0:24:09.479
<v Speaker 1>the door open and swim swim out. Now I can

0:24:09.520 --> 0:24:12.280
<v Speaker 1>think of various reasons not to do that, baby, but

0:24:12.359 --> 0:24:15.200
<v Speaker 1>I understand that he's trying to capture his excitement here.

0:24:15.320 --> 0:24:17.600
<v Speaker 1>It's the deep sea version of the thing, like you know,

0:24:17.720 --> 0:24:21.000
<v Speaker 1>the sudden desire to the call of the void, right yeah, yeah,

0:24:21.160 --> 0:24:25.160
<v Speaker 1>or the desire to like swerve into oncoming traffic. So

0:24:25.800 --> 0:24:29.080
<v Speaker 1>he was this was his guess that these were dragonfish.

0:24:29.160 --> 0:24:31.720
<v Speaker 1>And again we have to put ourselves in the bathmosphere

0:24:31.720 --> 0:24:36.560
<v Speaker 1>and imagine peering out through these tiny uh courtz lenses

0:24:36.880 --> 0:24:40.880
<v Speaker 1>at at things just swimming by, sometimes lingering but maybe not,

0:24:41.160 --> 0:24:46.160
<v Speaker 1>sometimes wholly visible for a few seconds, sometimes only partially visible.

0:24:46.640 --> 0:24:50.560
<v Speaker 1>But he guessed that these were some variety of dragonfish. Uh,

0:24:50.560 --> 0:24:53.320
<v Speaker 1>and the particular species that he was describing was unknown

0:24:53.400 --> 0:24:55.960
<v Speaker 1>to science at the time, but he was familiar with

0:24:56.080 --> 0:24:59.720
<v Speaker 1>other species of stomias. Now he apparently reported seeing a

0:25:00.040 --> 0:25:03.760
<v Speaker 1>six foot dragonfish as well as a marine biologist and

0:25:03.840 --> 0:25:07.040
<v Speaker 1>author Richard Ellis discusses in his book Singing Whales and

0:25:07.080 --> 0:25:10.640
<v Speaker 1>Flying Squid the Discovery of marine life. So to put

0:25:10.640 --> 0:25:14.880
<v Speaker 1>that in perspective, uh, I believe the largest known dragonfish

0:25:14.920 --> 0:25:18.520
<v Speaker 1>at the time was a mere fifteen inches in length. Wow.

0:25:18.680 --> 0:25:20.679
<v Speaker 1>I mean, if you look up what dragonfish look like

0:25:20.760 --> 0:25:23.800
<v Speaker 1>they are, it is terrifying to imagine a six foot

0:25:23.840 --> 0:25:26.040
<v Speaker 1>long one. It's kind of like. Uh. In fact, I

0:25:26.040 --> 0:25:28.480
<v Speaker 1>would compare it very much to the discovery of the

0:25:28.560 --> 0:25:32.640
<v Speaker 1>six foot long Cambrian predator Anomala carrass right. Uh. The

0:25:32.640 --> 0:25:36.200
<v Speaker 1>the idea that something that creepy could get that big

0:25:36.280 --> 0:25:40.280
<v Speaker 1>is really disturbing. Yeah, So these these creatures were members

0:25:40.280 --> 0:25:45.000
<v Speaker 1>of the order stomaformes, which also includes the viperfish, which

0:25:45.200 --> 0:25:48.879
<v Speaker 1>Bebe also notes on his dives. Now, in the introduction

0:25:49.240 --> 0:25:53.560
<v Speaker 1>UH to the novel Starfish UH, the author Peter Watts,

0:25:53.560 --> 0:25:57.080
<v Speaker 1>who was also also as a marine biology background, he

0:25:57.160 --> 0:26:01.679
<v Speaker 1>mentions bb having reported a seven foot viperfish. Now, I

0:26:01.680 --> 0:26:04.520
<v Speaker 1>don't I don't doubt Wat's in this, but I can't

0:26:04.600 --> 0:26:08.280
<v Speaker 1>personally find a reference to this particular sighting. But then again,

0:26:08.320 --> 0:26:12.280
<v Speaker 1>I didn't look at all of the scientific papers that

0:26:12.280 --> 0:26:15.119
<v Speaker 1>that baby put out over the years. But but he

0:26:15.160 --> 0:26:19.760
<v Speaker 1>certainly mentions viperfish in his biography and the idea if

0:26:19.760 --> 0:26:21.440
<v Speaker 1>you look up a picture of a viper fish again,

0:26:21.480 --> 0:26:24.639
<v Speaker 1>it's very much like like the dragonfish. This uh, this

0:26:24.760 --> 0:26:29.719
<v Speaker 1>sharp tooth, long, fierce, eel like creature. And to imagine

0:26:29.760 --> 0:26:32.960
<v Speaker 1>a seven foot version of this a swimming past you

0:26:32.960 --> 0:26:35.479
<v Speaker 1>as you're cramped in your steel beach ball, it's just

0:26:35.800 --> 0:26:38.359
<v Speaker 1>terrifying to imagine. Yeah, well, it swims up to the

0:26:38.359 --> 0:26:40.760
<v Speaker 1>window to say, hey, I'm here to vash and vipe

0:26:40.760 --> 0:26:44.320
<v Speaker 1>your windows. What is that from? Oh, you don't remember

0:26:44.359 --> 0:26:46.840
<v Speaker 1>that story the viper No, I think it was in

0:26:47.160 --> 0:26:48.920
<v Speaker 1>It was in that book Scary Stories to Tell in

0:26:49.000 --> 0:26:53.520
<v Speaker 1>the dark. I remember the book, or at least the illustration. Yeah, well,

0:26:54.560 --> 0:26:56.440
<v Speaker 1>bad joke if it didn't land. Sorry, I mean, no,

0:26:56.520 --> 0:26:58.080
<v Speaker 1>I no, no, I mean there's a story called The

0:26:58.160 --> 0:27:00.320
<v Speaker 1>Viper about a guy who keeps calling on the phone

0:27:00.320 --> 0:27:02.480
<v Speaker 1>who says like, I am the Viper and I'm coming,

0:27:02.960 --> 0:27:05.520
<v Speaker 1>and somebody gets really scared because the viper is coming.

0:27:05.560 --> 0:27:07.560
<v Speaker 1>And then finally, when the viper gets there, he says

0:27:07.560 --> 0:27:09.840
<v Speaker 1>he's there to vash and vipe the window because he's

0:27:09.880 --> 0:27:12.320
<v Speaker 1>really the viper. Okay, now, I think the joke will

0:27:12.359 --> 0:27:14.280
<v Speaker 1>work for people who know the reference that I just

0:27:14.320 --> 0:27:16.200
<v Speaker 1>didn't catch it. Jokes are always better when you spend

0:27:16.200 --> 0:27:19.159
<v Speaker 1>a few minutes explaining him, you know. All right, Well,

0:27:19.200 --> 0:27:23.000
<v Speaker 1>let's move on to another sighting that BB reported that

0:27:23.080 --> 0:27:26.959
<v Speaker 1>of the great fish, and I believe we read a

0:27:27.000 --> 0:27:28.639
<v Speaker 1>little bit from this one at the top of the

0:27:28.640 --> 0:27:32.679
<v Speaker 1>first episode. Yeah, so what was this great fish? Well,

0:27:32.920 --> 0:27:35.880
<v Speaker 1>he describes it. Essentially, it's just this wall of flesh

0:27:36.000 --> 0:27:38.600
<v Speaker 1>passing him by in the faint light, something that he

0:27:38.640 --> 0:27:42.920
<v Speaker 1>guessed to be about twenty ft long, and it could

0:27:42.920 --> 0:27:44.920
<v Speaker 1>have been a number of things, So he he thinks

0:27:44.960 --> 0:27:47.800
<v Speaker 1>it might have been some manner of whale and it

0:27:47.880 --> 0:27:49.840
<v Speaker 1>could have been. It could have been a sperm whale

0:27:49.880 --> 0:27:51.880
<v Speaker 1>for instance, which is as we've discussed on the show

0:27:51.880 --> 0:27:55.119
<v Speaker 1>in our Leviathan episode, is a large creature and it

0:27:55.160 --> 0:27:58.240
<v Speaker 1>can and it can dive much deeper than the bathosphere

0:27:59.280 --> 0:28:03.119
<v Speaker 1>and can get my bigger than correct. Yes. Now, however,

0:28:03.160 --> 0:28:05.399
<v Speaker 1>it's also been brought up so that it could have

0:28:05.440 --> 0:28:08.800
<v Speaker 1>been some kind of a deep sea shark, because in

0:28:08.880 --> 0:28:13.160
<v Speaker 1>nineteen five marine biologists managed a glimpse and photograph six

0:28:13.200 --> 0:28:15.239
<v Speaker 1>gill sharks at a depth of the two thousand, four

0:28:15.280 --> 0:28:18.879
<v Speaker 1>hundred and sixty ft and and so Ellis suggests that

0:28:18.920 --> 0:28:21.240
<v Speaker 1>it's possible that Beebe could have seen this, or perhaps

0:28:21.240 --> 0:28:24.160
<v Speaker 1>a deep sea sharks such as the greenland shark, whose

0:28:24.240 --> 0:28:29.000
<v Speaker 1>range apparently includes Bermudo's waters. Okay, now you know, one

0:28:29.040 --> 0:28:32.600
<v Speaker 1>of everybody's favorite deep sea creatures is of course the

0:28:32.800 --> 0:28:36.440
<v Speaker 1>Tricksie angler fish. Oh yes, because because the image of

0:28:36.480 --> 0:28:40.120
<v Speaker 1>the angler fish with its large gaping mouth and sharp teeth,

0:28:40.160 --> 0:28:43.880
<v Speaker 1>and then that that that strange bioluminescent lure that hangs

0:28:43.920 --> 0:28:46.120
<v Speaker 1>in front of it, I mean, it's just such an

0:28:46.120 --> 0:28:50.080
<v Speaker 1>amazing looking creature. And that's without even getting into it's

0:28:50.120 --> 0:28:54.800
<v Speaker 1>extremely bizarre reproductive methods. So with the tiny male, the

0:28:54.880 --> 0:28:57.800
<v Speaker 1>tiny male that's like a little reproductive heat seeker that

0:28:57.920 --> 0:29:01.680
<v Speaker 1>infuses with their body. We've discussed that on the show before,

0:29:02.080 --> 0:29:04.200
<v Speaker 1>but he did have a run in with the angler fish.

0:29:04.400 --> 0:29:08.040
<v Speaker 1>Here's another quote from half mile down quote. Another interesting

0:29:08.080 --> 0:29:10.280
<v Speaker 1>fish on this trip was one which I saw by

0:29:10.280 --> 0:29:13.320
<v Speaker 1>the light of our electric beam at nine feet on

0:29:13.320 --> 0:29:15.920
<v Speaker 1>the way up. It was one of the true giant

0:29:16.000 --> 0:29:19.200
<v Speaker 1>female anglerfish, a full two ft in length, with enormous

0:29:19.240 --> 0:29:22.760
<v Speaker 1>mouth and teeth, deep and thick, with a long tentacle

0:29:22.800 --> 0:29:25.320
<v Speaker 1>arising from the top of its head. I saw no

0:29:25.480 --> 0:29:28.000
<v Speaker 1>light from this, but it was distinct for a moment

0:29:28.160 --> 0:29:32.400
<v Speaker 1>in the surrounding illumination. Twice its mouth opened and partially shut,

0:29:32.600 --> 0:29:35.280
<v Speaker 1>and then we passed out of its life. Three of

0:29:35.280 --> 0:29:38.080
<v Speaker 1>these weird fish have been taken dead at the surface,

0:29:38.280 --> 0:29:40.880
<v Speaker 1>but three years of intensive trawling have given us no

0:29:41.000 --> 0:29:44.160
<v Speaker 1>hint of their presence here. For a few seconds, I

0:29:44.200 --> 0:29:46.920
<v Speaker 1>was within ten ft of one, and the memory will

0:29:46.960 --> 0:29:49.840
<v Speaker 1>never leave me. Yeah, I'd guess. In the steel ball

0:29:49.880 --> 0:29:53.840
<v Speaker 1>in the deep, you make a lot of memories, alright.

0:29:53.880 --> 0:29:57.360
<v Speaker 1>So one of the things we've discussed here is that

0:29:58.320 --> 0:30:01.200
<v Speaker 1>so many, many of these sightings were can definitely be

0:30:01.240 --> 0:30:05.120
<v Speaker 1>backed up. Many of these sightings were of creatures that

0:30:05.360 --> 0:30:08.120
<v Speaker 1>are known to science, and we have specimens for them.

0:30:08.360 --> 0:30:12.000
<v Speaker 1>But there's mystery. Yeah, I mean it is necessarily subjective reporting.

0:30:12.080 --> 0:30:14.480
<v Speaker 1>Like we said, the photography of the time could not

0:30:14.600 --> 0:30:17.240
<v Speaker 1>capture things. So now if you take a deep sea subdown,

0:30:17.680 --> 0:30:20.640
<v Speaker 1>you can videotape the whole thing, so you can prove

0:30:20.680 --> 0:30:22.720
<v Speaker 1>what you saw when you came back. Here, we have

0:30:22.840 --> 0:30:25.120
<v Speaker 1>to rely on the word of the people who were

0:30:25.160 --> 0:30:28.160
<v Speaker 1>in the bathmosphere looking out right, and that led even

0:30:28.920 --> 0:30:31.960
<v Speaker 1>scientists at the time to question some of it. So

0:30:32.080 --> 0:30:35.160
<v Speaker 1>if theologist Carl Hubbs, for instance, he had some issues

0:30:35.240 --> 0:30:41.000
<v Speaker 1>with the reported duh bioluminescence, and he suggested in ninety

0:30:41.080 --> 0:30:44.040
<v Speaker 1>three quote, I am forced to suggest that whatever the

0:30:44.080 --> 0:30:49.360
<v Speaker 1>author saw might have been a phosphorescenceylinter rate whose lights

0:30:49.400 --> 0:30:53.680
<v Speaker 1>were beautified by halation in passing through a misty film

0:30:53.720 --> 0:30:57.840
<v Speaker 1>breathed onto the quartz window by Mr Biebe's eagerly oppressed faith.

0:30:59.200 --> 0:31:01.480
<v Speaker 1>I like the snooty voice you give Hubs there, Well,

0:31:01.520 --> 0:31:05.680
<v Speaker 1>I get, I do get a very like snooty, intellectual,

0:31:05.880 --> 0:31:09.520
<v Speaker 1>like stuffy academic vibe here saying who is this this

0:31:09.920 --> 0:31:14.360
<v Speaker 1>science popularizer, Uh, you know, without an advanced degree, daring

0:31:14.400 --> 0:31:17.680
<v Speaker 1>to report on the secrets of the deep. Yeah, I mean,

0:31:18.200 --> 0:31:20.840
<v Speaker 1>you're naturally I think a modern person is sort of

0:31:20.920 --> 0:31:24.120
<v Speaker 1>naturally inclined to be on BB side here, especially because

0:31:24.160 --> 0:31:27.960
<v Speaker 1>of like we see him being criticized for non legitimate reasons,

0:31:28.000 --> 0:31:31.800
<v Speaker 1>like you're hiring women researchers that you know that's a nonsense.

0:31:31.840 --> 0:31:35.160
<v Speaker 1>So you you kind of like naturally want to say, like, Okay,

0:31:35.200 --> 0:31:37.680
<v Speaker 1>if people are coming at him with criticisms, they're not fair,

0:31:37.760 --> 0:31:41.600
<v Speaker 1>but some criticisms might be fair while other ones aren't. Yeah,

0:31:41.680 --> 0:31:44.240
<v Speaker 1>I mean it comes back around to the fact that

0:31:44.240 --> 0:31:48.280
<v Speaker 1>we are depending upon his observations and the observations of

0:31:48.280 --> 0:31:51.239
<v Speaker 1>Otis and and in many cases one it's not like

0:31:51.280 --> 0:31:53.440
<v Speaker 1>both of them saw the same thing. They're looking out

0:31:53.440 --> 0:31:57.080
<v Speaker 1>of different windows. There are several cases where Baby says, oh,

0:31:57.120 --> 0:31:59.080
<v Speaker 1>and then Otis saw this creature and I really wish

0:31:59.080 --> 0:32:02.720
<v Speaker 1>I could have seen it, by I didn't, or likewise,

0:32:02.760 --> 0:32:05.040
<v Speaker 1>it's something that only BB saw and Otis was looking

0:32:05.040 --> 0:32:08.320
<v Speaker 1>at something else. Now, in all of this, I'm personally

0:32:08.320 --> 0:32:11.600
<v Speaker 1>inclined to believe beebe or at least I really want

0:32:11.640 --> 0:32:14.600
<v Speaker 1>to believe him and I and I have I have

0:32:14.640 --> 0:32:20.200
<v Speaker 1>not conducted in like an exhaustive analysis of his personality

0:32:20.640 --> 0:32:23.680
<v Speaker 1>or anything, but based on what we've read about him

0:32:23.920 --> 0:32:26.480
<v Speaker 1>and his work, he seems to be to have been

0:32:26.480 --> 0:32:31.760
<v Speaker 1>a very meticulous researcher who cared about accurately presenting uh

0:32:31.840 --> 0:32:33.920
<v Speaker 1>what was going on in the ocean. Well, Ellis had

0:32:33.920 --> 0:32:36.120
<v Speaker 1>an opinion on that, right, did he does? Yees? So,

0:32:36.960 --> 0:32:39.600
<v Speaker 1>Ellis writes, quote, it is possible that Bebe was the

0:32:39.640 --> 0:32:42.720
<v Speaker 1>only person ever to see these mysterious creatures. It is

0:32:42.760 --> 0:32:45.360
<v Speaker 1>also possible that he made them up. But although he

0:32:45.400 --> 0:32:48.440
<v Speaker 1>wrote very cleverly and well, there is very little in

0:32:48.520 --> 0:32:50.840
<v Speaker 1>his published work to indicate that he was a practical

0:32:50.960 --> 0:32:55.040
<v Speaker 1>joker now to play Devil's advocate, though. Ellis does point

0:32:55.080 --> 0:32:58.160
<v Speaker 1>out that Bebe might have possibly joked at one point

0:32:58.200 --> 0:33:02.200
<v Speaker 1>about lights being those of quote a giant toadfish, and

0:33:02.240 --> 0:33:06.840
<v Speaker 1>that perhaps bb having neither a graduate or undergraduate degree,

0:33:06.880 --> 0:33:11.120
<v Speaker 1>wanted to quote put one over on the academics. Uh

0:33:11.160 --> 0:33:13.160
<v Speaker 1>and it's it's. It's also worth noting that he would

0:33:13.160 --> 0:33:15.160
<v Speaker 1>have not been the first to play such a prank.

0:33:15.640 --> 0:33:19.040
<v Speaker 1>Elis points to a nineteen thirty three prank by Australian

0:33:19.080 --> 0:33:24.120
<v Speaker 1>ethologist Gilbert Whitley, and he makes the point that B.

0:33:24.320 --> 0:33:27.880
<v Speaker 1>B would have known that his observations were fairly safe

0:33:27.920 --> 0:33:30.560
<v Speaker 1>for the fris Eevil future. So, in other words, he

0:33:30.600 --> 0:33:33.080
<v Speaker 1>could have made something up and known that, Hey, if

0:33:33.280 --> 0:33:35.720
<v Speaker 1>future explorers come down to the same part of the ocean,

0:33:35.720 --> 0:33:38.280
<v Speaker 1>the same depth and they don't see it, that in

0:33:38.360 --> 0:33:42.200
<v Speaker 1>no way disproves what I'm claiming to have seen his

0:33:42.280 --> 0:33:45.520
<v Speaker 1>reports quote would it would enter the literature as they

0:33:45.520 --> 0:33:49.600
<v Speaker 1>have done, with virtually no possibility of being discounted. It is,

0:33:49.640 --> 0:33:53.239
<v Speaker 1>after all, one of the basic tenets of cryptozoology that

0:33:53.360 --> 0:33:58.040
<v Speaker 1>negative evidence cannot be disproved, a fact beloved by chupacabra

0:33:58.160 --> 0:34:02.080
<v Speaker 1>movie purveyors everywhere. So Ellis stresses that, look, we we

0:34:02.120 --> 0:34:05.080
<v Speaker 1>simply don't know. Another thousand or ten thousand dives might

0:34:05.120 --> 0:34:07.800
<v Speaker 1>be required to to really prove any of this out.

0:34:08.040 --> 0:34:10.239
<v Speaker 1>But he says that the very fact that that they

0:34:10.400 --> 0:34:13.600
<v Speaker 1>that some of these specimens have not been seen since Bebe,

0:34:14.080 --> 0:34:17.600
<v Speaker 1>that that casts their existence into doubt. But now, also,

0:34:18.000 --> 0:34:20.479
<v Speaker 1>as I think we have said before, Bebe did see

0:34:20.560 --> 0:34:22.759
<v Speaker 1>some things that were not known about at the time

0:34:22.800 --> 0:34:25.239
<v Speaker 1>but have since been verified. Yeah, I mean in the

0:34:25.360 --> 0:34:28.000
<v Speaker 1>vast majority of the deep sea fishes he describes are

0:34:28.040 --> 0:34:31.600
<v Speaker 1>confirmed by specimens uh, and in one case, the quote

0:34:31.680 --> 0:34:35.440
<v Speaker 1>untouchable bathmosphere fish uh did turn out to be a

0:34:35.480 --> 0:34:38.920
<v Speaker 1>species of dragonfish later found to inhabit the middle layers

0:34:38.920 --> 0:34:42.160
<v Speaker 1>of the ocean where he reported them. So for many

0:34:42.200 --> 0:34:45.680
<v Speaker 1>of these great creatures, perhaps we simply haven't seen them again. Uh.

0:34:45.680 --> 0:34:48.240
<v Speaker 1>The ocean is a big place and one that contains

0:34:48.239 --> 0:34:51.680
<v Speaker 1>plenty of mystery. Perhaps these species have suffered or gone

0:34:51.719 --> 0:34:54.120
<v Speaker 1>extinct due to the due to the damage that humans

0:34:54.120 --> 0:34:56.920
<v Speaker 1>have inflicted on the ocean's highly possible yeah. Or as

0:34:56.960 --> 0:35:00.319
<v Speaker 1>we've discussed, perhaps these creatures were more easily seen by

0:35:00.320 --> 0:35:03.760
<v Speaker 1>the silent, motorless bathosphere as it descended through the depths.

0:35:04.160 --> 0:35:07.560
<v Speaker 1>The aquatic environment, after all, is quite vulnerable to sound.

0:35:08.600 --> 0:35:11.360
<v Speaker 1>And to go back into the differences of the general

0:35:11.400 --> 0:35:14.680
<v Speaker 1>methods of sampling the depths, you if you've got the

0:35:14.680 --> 0:35:17.160
<v Speaker 1>Gilgamesh method and the eba zoom method, there are plenty

0:35:17.200 --> 0:35:21.120
<v Speaker 1>of species that are not very easily picked up by

0:35:21.440 --> 0:35:23.840
<v Speaker 1>various kinds of eb zoom methods. Like whether you're trawling

0:35:23.840 --> 0:35:26.920
<v Speaker 1>with a net or trying to drag a dredge along,

0:35:27.600 --> 0:35:30.160
<v Speaker 1>whatever you're doing, there's some species that just tend not

0:35:30.280 --> 0:35:33.319
<v Speaker 1>to get caught like that. Yeah. Now, one thing I

0:35:33.520 --> 0:35:34.839
<v Speaker 1>do want to throw in here is that in some

0:35:34.880 --> 0:35:38.759
<v Speaker 1>of these discussions of of the more mysterious creatures, it

0:35:38.760 --> 0:35:41.960
<v Speaker 1>tends to it tends to fall into extremes. Right, Either

0:35:42.160 --> 0:35:45.320
<v Speaker 1>he definitely saw something that we have not seen since,

0:35:45.560 --> 0:35:48.040
<v Speaker 1>or he just made it up without really without really

0:35:48.040 --> 0:35:51.759
<v Speaker 1>addressing the fact that there are a number of possible

0:35:52.360 --> 0:35:55.080
<v Speaker 1>variations between those two extremes. I mean, it was dark

0:35:55.120 --> 0:35:57.640
<v Speaker 1>down there, it was dark. They're they're just getting glimpses

0:35:57.680 --> 0:36:00.759
<v Speaker 1>of things, So I would I would order with, isn't

0:36:00.800 --> 0:36:02.880
<v Speaker 1>it possible that he saw some of these things but

0:36:02.920 --> 0:36:07.880
<v Speaker 1>misjudged their size, that he later remembered them a little differently? Like,

0:36:07.960 --> 0:36:10.880
<v Speaker 1>I don't think it is necessary for for b B

0:36:11.120 --> 0:36:14.719
<v Speaker 1>to be a prankster or a liar for him to

0:36:14.840 --> 0:36:18.120
<v Speaker 1>have misreported something that he that he thought he saw. Oh,

0:36:18.160 --> 0:36:20.520
<v Speaker 1>I totally agree there. Yeah, And so you know, speaking

0:36:20.560 --> 0:36:24.040
<v Speaker 1>for myself, I'm not inclined to really entertain some of

0:36:24.080 --> 0:36:28.360
<v Speaker 1>these more nefarious interpretations of his observations. I was a

0:36:28.400 --> 0:36:30.360
<v Speaker 1>little thrown when he saw the crack in the size

0:36:30.360 --> 0:36:33.320
<v Speaker 1>of an island. Wait, that wasn't b B. I'm always

0:36:33.320 --> 0:36:36.560
<v Speaker 1>confusing BB with those medieval Norwegians. Well, this does raise

0:36:36.600 --> 0:36:39.520
<v Speaker 1>the question if he if he was to make something up,

0:36:39.960 --> 0:36:43.839
<v Speaker 1>like why didn't he go even broader with his descriptions?

0:36:44.760 --> 0:36:47.640
<v Speaker 1>But I don't know that. Again, we're getting into into

0:36:47.719 --> 0:36:50.799
<v Speaker 1>areas of pure speculation here. Well. I I like this

0:36:50.880 --> 0:36:53.320
<v Speaker 1>because it sort of brings us back to the fact

0:36:53.360 --> 0:36:56.160
<v Speaker 1>that we were discussing earlier and in the last episode

0:36:56.160 --> 0:36:58.640
<v Speaker 1>about how we know a lot more about the deep

0:36:58.680 --> 0:37:01.840
<v Speaker 1>than we used to, but we still don't know tons

0:37:01.880 --> 0:37:04.239
<v Speaker 1>of stuff about the deep oceans. The deep oceans are

0:37:04.800 --> 0:37:07.320
<v Speaker 1>it's almost a cliche to say now because people emphasize

0:37:07.360 --> 0:37:09.280
<v Speaker 1>it so much, but it's very true. They're they're entirely

0:37:09.320 --> 0:37:14.120
<v Speaker 1>alien to us. We know very little about them. Yeah,

0:37:14.320 --> 0:37:18.959
<v Speaker 1>it's it's been reported that of the ocean is unexplored.

0:37:19.480 --> 0:37:21.359
<v Speaker 1>Uh and and and that's to say it hasn't even

0:37:21.480 --> 0:37:24.480
<v Speaker 1>been seen with human eyes. Yeah. I know there are

0:37:24.560 --> 0:37:27.960
<v Speaker 1>various ways of people disputing that figure, but suffice to

0:37:27.960 --> 0:37:30.560
<v Speaker 1>say that even large portions of the ocean that are

0:37:30.760 --> 0:37:35.000
<v Speaker 1>sort of roughly mapped have not actually been seen. Yeah,

0:37:35.040 --> 0:37:38.799
<v Speaker 1>as of two thousand fourteen, less than point zero five

0:37:38.840 --> 0:37:41.400
<v Speaker 1>percent of the ocean floor had been mapped to a

0:37:41.520 --> 0:37:45.960
<v Speaker 1>level of detail useful for detecting items such as the

0:37:45.960 --> 0:37:50.000
<v Speaker 1>wreckage of airplanes or the spires of undersea volcanic events,

0:37:50.440 --> 0:37:53.040
<v Speaker 1>and I've seen a higher stat in recent years. For instance,

0:37:53.719 --> 0:37:56.680
<v Speaker 1>according to the Unseen Oceans exhibit at the American Museum

0:37:56.719 --> 0:37:59.640
<v Speaker 1>of Natural History, only ten to fifteen percent of the

0:37:59.680 --> 0:38:03.920
<v Speaker 1>CV sea floor is revealed to us inaccuracy. And in

0:38:03.960 --> 0:38:06.000
<v Speaker 1>either case, ultimately we know more about the surface of

0:38:06.040 --> 0:38:08.759
<v Speaker 1>Mars than the sea floor of our own planet. Part

0:38:08.760 --> 0:38:10.359
<v Speaker 1>of the issue there, of course, is that we can't

0:38:10.480 --> 0:38:13.759
<v Speaker 1>use satellites to map the sea floor in the same

0:38:13.800 --> 0:38:16.400
<v Speaker 1>way that we can use satellites to map the surface

0:38:16.440 --> 0:38:19.400
<v Speaker 1>of Mars. We have to depend on things like sonar

0:38:19.719 --> 0:38:22.520
<v Speaker 1>and to to do it. Yeah, but at the same time,

0:38:22.560 --> 0:38:24.200
<v Speaker 1>as we've said, we know a lot more than we

0:38:24.280 --> 0:38:26.640
<v Speaker 1>used to and it's exciting that there is so much

0:38:26.640 --> 0:38:29.040
<v Speaker 1>more to learn. Indeed, and I think that's why we

0:38:29.120 --> 0:38:31.080
<v Speaker 1>keep coming back to the ocean on stuff to blow

0:38:31.120 --> 0:38:33.200
<v Speaker 1>your mind. We talk about the mysteries about our space,

0:38:33.239 --> 0:38:35.920
<v Speaker 1>we talk about the mysteries of the inner mind, and

0:38:35.960 --> 0:38:38.080
<v Speaker 1>of course we're going to keep talking about the mysteries

0:38:38.120 --> 0:38:41.400
<v Speaker 1>of the ocean. I mean, there's no dragonfish in space.

0:38:41.760 --> 0:38:45.719
<v Speaker 1>It's true, Like the ocean is the mysterious realm in

0:38:45.760 --> 0:38:48.239
<v Speaker 1>which we know there is alien life and we keep

0:38:48.280 --> 0:38:53.560
<v Speaker 1>discovering new forms. There may be dragonfish in the mind, yes, oh,

0:38:53.640 --> 0:38:58.000
<v Speaker 1>undoubtedly they're dragonfish in the mind. But but in the

0:38:58.000 --> 0:39:00.239
<v Speaker 1>in the ocean, we can actually pull them up and

0:39:00.480 --> 0:39:02.840
<v Speaker 1>uh and poke at them. Though how much better to

0:39:02.920 --> 0:39:05.399
<v Speaker 1>go down and observe them in the natural habitat rather

0:39:05.480 --> 0:39:08.160
<v Speaker 1>than pulling them up. And so that's the legacy of

0:39:08.200 --> 0:39:12.160
<v Speaker 1>William bb in the athmosphere. That's right, The modern Gilgameshes

0:39:12.160 --> 0:39:14.759
<v Speaker 1>should put it all right. Well, hey, be sure to

0:39:14.840 --> 0:39:16.799
<v Speaker 1>check out stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. That's

0:39:16.800 --> 0:39:19.759
<v Speaker 1>where you'll find this episode, the previous episode, and all

0:39:19.760 --> 0:39:22.399
<v Speaker 1>the other episodes of the podcast, as well as blog

0:39:22.440 --> 0:39:24.760
<v Speaker 1>posts and links out to our various social media accounts.

0:39:25.280 --> 0:39:28.440
<v Speaker 1>Thanks as always to our audio producers, Alex Williams and

0:39:28.560 --> 0:39:30.919
<v Speaker 1>Tory Harrison. If you would like to get in touch

0:39:30.960 --> 0:39:33.360
<v Speaker 1>with us to let us know feedback about this episode

0:39:33.520 --> 0:39:35.520
<v Speaker 1>or any other episode, to let us know a topic

0:39:35.640 --> 0:39:37.600
<v Speaker 1>you think maybe we should cover in the future, just

0:39:37.719 --> 0:39:40.320
<v Speaker 1>to say hi and let us know your your thoughts.

0:39:40.800 --> 0:39:43.759
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0:39:43.880 --> 0:39:56.040
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0:39:56.080 --> 0:39:58.399
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0:40:02.680 --> 0:40:14.360
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